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Sunday, October 9, 2011

Hypothetically, Self would take Big 12 over SEC

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College basketball notebook. ...

Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self was asked by 810 radio last week to pretend KU has been offered a spot in the Southeastern Conference — the league Missouri is considering joining.

If such an offer were on the table, would KU’s ninth-year coach prefer to remain in the Big 12 or head to the rock-solid (at this time) SEC?

“If we were offered to go to the SEC, based on the information I have, I’d say based on the betterment of our university we definitely need to stay where we are at for our fans,” Self said. “It sounds sexy, I guess, to say we’d play these other schools (like Alabama, Auburn, LSU in football; Kentucky in basketball), but you are also going to play schools that, based on your location and theirs and past history, you’d be starting from scratch.

“From my standpoint it’d be very difficult for our entire sports program, primarily in football — even though we were Orange Bowl champions just four years ago and people forget about that and we will get back with Turner Gill the right man to do that — (because) your last five national champions come from the SEC and a sixth won it 11 years ago. That’s hard to be relevant. Missouri would be going into the SEC, Kansas (in the scenario presented by the radio station) would be going into the SEC not only competing against people that won championships, but national championships. We’ve had two in our league win national championships in the last 10 years with Oklahoma and Texas, but you don’t look to the left and right and see it every Saturday.

“Basketball-wise, it seems kind of sexy to me to be playing in the league where the two winningest programs of all time are both in it, Kansas and Kentucky, but over time I still don’t think that’s more important than playing Missouri and Kansas State,” added Self, a big fan of the Big 12 and its natural geographic rivalries.

Self also said it’s important student-athletes not have to travel through different time zones to play conference games, especially with the NCAA increasing its stance on improved academics. He noted that athletes in sports that do not charter to games would find it especially difficult not to miss significant amounts of class time.

“Non revenue sports would miss three days of school to go play a competition,” Self said.

Smaller may be better: Self realizes the Big 12, which would have 10 teams if Missouri stays and TCU is added, could expand back to 12 teams.

There’s perceived safety in numbers with so many teams getting poached from current conferences.

In a perfect world, however, Self would stay at nine or 10 teams (with TCU and MU).

“If we talk strictly basketball, the ACC was consistently getting six or seven in the NCAA out of their nine. They go to 12, now that gives the appearance of mediocrity, and now they are getting three to five,” Self said. “Look at the Big Eight. The Big Eight every year was getting five for the most part — one year we got six of eight. That’s 75 percent of your conference schools in the NCAA Tournament. We go to 12 and now we are doing cartwheels if we get five or six. In basketball, the teams that will play in the Big 12 if Missouri stays, seven of the nine have been to the Elite Eight in the last seven years. Seven different schools. Those schools are playing for national championships because if you are in the Elite Eight, that’s like being in a BCS bowl. You are in the game.”

Peters the receiver: Future KU basketball power forward Zach Peters had five catches for 59 yards and one touchdown in Prestonwood Christian Academy’s 31-7 football victory over Argyle Christian on Friday night in Plano, Texas. For the year, the 6-foot-9, 240-pound Peters has 42 catches for 549 yards and nine touchdowns. Prestonwood is 5-1. The previous week, Peters had eight catches for 104 yards and three TDs in a 63-59 shootout victory over Trinity Christian.

Coaches reception: KU coach Self, K-State’s Frank Martin, Missouri’s Frank Haith and UMKC’s Matt Brown will attend the annual Coaches V. Cancer season tipoff reception on Tuesday at College Basketball Experience next to Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo. Tickets are $50 for the event that runs from 6 to 8 p.m. For ticket information, go to http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/Gala/GalaFY10HighPlains?pg=entry&fr;_id=41561

Comments

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

Duh! Of course he'd take the Big(?) 12. A cake conference (as evidenced by their Final Four record in the past ten years and their perennial subjugation by one team) and an almost guaranteed ticket to the tournament, as opposed to playing in conference where he'd actually have to do some coaching. When's the last time Bill scheduled Big East/Big Ten/ACC game outside the tournament? Oh, he has feasted on the mighty Pac 10 though. Kudos Bill! The Big 12 is well on its way to becoming a mid-major, basketball-wise

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

KULA, that's a psycho rant.

B12>SEC in hoops since forever.

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

Well, if you judge by Final Four appearances (which is a requirement for a national championship) by a conference during Bill Self's tenure, you get SEC...5, Big 12...1

STLrockCHALK 8 years, 4 months ago

Where do you get your information? You are wrong on both. The SEC has four since Bill arrived in Lawrence (FLA, FLA, LSU and UK) and the Big 12 has two (Okla St and Kansas).

notaubermime 8 years, 4 months ago

"When's the last time Bill scheduled Big East/Big Ten/ACC game outside the tournament?"

Uh, pretty much every year? This year, KU plays Georgetown, USF, and Ohio State. Over the last 5 years, we have played Michigan, Michigan State, Syracuse, Georgia Tech, and Boston College. You should work on knowing what you talk about before you open your mouth.

LAJayhawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Thank you. Really didn't feel like having to list out all the teams in those conferences we've played. Glad you did it for me.

Ignorance may be bliss, but it doesn't stop one from looking like a dumba**...........

LAJayhawk 8 years, 4 months ago

We also have the chance of playing Michigan or Duke depending on the outcome of the Maui invitational.

Vernon Riggs 8 years, 4 months ago

Then add the PAC teams like UCLA, USC, Arizona...Mid-Major? I don't agree.

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

I guess you missed the sarcasm I intended about the PAC 10. It was an embarrassment to get taken to the wire by UCLA's slow white boy team last year, but very reminiscent of the UNI game. The PAC 10 sucks. It's a one team conference.

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

Ah yes, that mighty powerhouse Michigan--who last achieved relevance in the Fab Five year--before anyone on the current roster was born. No wait! They almost achieved relevance last year when they took a top ranked team to the limit. And Georgia Tech and Boston College? Really? I'll give you Michigan St. & Syracuse, but my point is that Big 12 play and non-conference scheduling does nothing to prepare this team for tournament play.

baldwinjhawk 8 years, 4 months ago

You are an imbecile! This year "unfortunately" we have the toughest ranked schedule in the country. Last year we played 14 tournament teams. We would win the sec almost ever year. Wtf do you want? We were picked 4th preseason in the conference last year but people still gave us crap for only making it to the " elite 8" while other schools make dvd's for season like that we were embarrassed

Mel Clare 8 years, 4 months ago

Thats because the Big easy.................Big teny..............and Almost caught crying............WONT schedule the Hawks on any sight! They always wnat a home and then forget it game................Kula your an idiot!

addlime 8 years, 4 months ago

Nothing more entertaining than when the first post is from an absolute moron! Pile on everyone, it couldn't be easier!

lee3022 8 years, 4 months ago

A suggestion: Read ESPN.com, CBSSports.com, Foxsports.com, Sports.Yahoo.com or SI.com to get an overall understanding of college basketball and specific information about KU's schedule, ranked by ESPN as the only 10 (hardest) preseason schedule in the country. It does not get tougher than this. Only Michigan State seeks out as tough a schedule every year as Kansas and this year is a step behind KU.

A second suggestion: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/win-loss-pct-coach-yearly.html will help you to understand coach Self. This listing shows coach Self with two of the top four seasons in the past four years, including last year. The man knows how to coach, especially considering that the recruits he picks are rarely the top recruiting class in the country per the dubious scouting reports.

Finally this reference: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/ will enlighten you about the Big XII conference which ranks 2nd (behind the ACC) all-time in win loss % over all other conferences in the history of the game.

Having done your homework I welcome your return here to be a contributor rather than in instigator.

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

Yes, I'll admit, the man knows how to coach. Until he faces a huge underdog in a tournament game....

And thanks for enlightening me about all-time win loss % over other conferences. Now can you enlighten me about National Championships per conference?

But in all seriousness, I'd have no problem with him if he'd just stop losing to huge underdogs and making KU the wrong end of the ESPY's biggest upset award. I mean, I could understand if he actually lost to a better team...

jayhawkinATL 8 years, 4 months ago

You sound like another dip-sh*t talking out of his a$$!!!

Dan Harris 8 years, 4 months ago

yeah, because the sec is such the juggernaut of a basketball conf??!!??

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

5 Final Fours during Bill Self's tenure...as opposed to how many Big 12 appearances?

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

Do a little research and you'll see how off your comments are..Most times I'd do the work for you but in all honesty..I could care less what you think. One hint..The Big 12/Pac-10 Hardwood Series.

Hank Cross 8 years, 4 months ago

Way to rattle the cages of the B12 homers. The fact is that 3 SEC schools have won 10 NCAA NCs, while the current B12 only has 2 schools that have won a total of 5. Furthermore, 3 SEC schools have won it in modern time, while the School FKA Oklahoma A&M won their 2 when dinosaurs walked the Earth.

Speaking of Okie Ball, it's instructive that UK and AR both got titles after Eddie Sutton left and they went up tempo. (And of course Pitino disciple Billy Donovan got FL's titles).

In reality though, the SEC is just about the same as the B12 and the P12 in the bottom tier of the BCS BB conferences. The SEC gets good athletes, but schools like Auburn, Tenn, Bama,Vandy, etc. just haven't put anything together consistently.

I don't have a problem with Self's non-con scheduling. He usually gets a good mix of challenging teams. It's the weakness of the B12 that's the problem.

jmucci 8 years, 4 months ago

Even though the Big 12 is already superior to the SEC in basketball, the gap between the two will soon enough grow still wider once the Big 12 adds Louisville and most likely Cincinnati and perhaps West Virginia. The addition of Louisville is almost a guaranteed event with the implosion of Big East football, and it makes great geographic sense since the Louisville campus is only about 600 miles from KC.

Alohahawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Although a lot of us posters do not rate ESPN very highly, Joe Lunardi (sp), on ESPN's website, ranks the Big 12 as the #1 basketball conference. That would have to be from top to bottom, not just the top 2 or 3 schools. When you look at the Big 12's pre-conference W/L records since it's outset, that would probably back up his ranking of the conference. This season, with both KU and Texas fielding inexperienced teams, the conference doesn't have a preseason top ten team, although (if I remember correctly) they have 5 or 6 in the top 30.

Now, if another poster rants about a team's cupcake scheduling, I'll agree. However, every team, (including KU, Duke, N. Carolina, Kenstinky, Etc.) has it's share of mediochre opponents. And KU's schedule this season is considered by most to be one of the toughest, if not the toughest of any school.

As far as preferring the Big 12 over the SEC, I totally agree with Coach Self's reasons. They're logical because they benefit the student athletes, as well as the fans. I do feel that KU would still have the following at away games, even if they played in the SEC, just as much as it does now. Think about it. Since when has KU ever had a poor representation away from home (speaking strictly of Bball, of course), as long as the tickets were made available? The Jayhawk Nation has one of the strongest support groups of any school! I'm in Hawaii, so I can't make it to the mainland to watch them play in person, but I've always tried to, work permitting, when they came to Hawaii. I support KU, not UH, (the University of Hawaii - hometown teams).

actorman 8 years, 4 months ago

Um, we're playing Kentucky and Ohio State this year, we played at Michigan last year, and we recently had a home-and-home with Michigan State, you complete idiot.

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

So basically, Michigan State is the only good team we've played out of conference so far during Bill Self's tenure?

actorman 8 years, 4 months ago

My comment was obviously in response to KULA, not Aloha. Good points, Aloha, although I'm not sure I would agree with Lunardi. It's hard to consider the Big XII the best conference, given its generally dismal tournament record. That's the one thing, I think, that keeps me from taking the conference that seriously. Until the Big XII starts consisting getting teams to the Final Four (and especially teams other than KU), it's hard to say it compares favorably with the top conferences.

Alohahawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Mahalo, Was hoping you meant KULA while I was reading your first comment, then understood after the second. Didn't mean I quite agreed with Lunardi, especially this season, but most of the Big 12 teams have had a favorable W/L record since the conference was formed.

lee3022 8 years, 4 months ago

As we all know, Final Four entry is about 40% skill and 60% breaks of the game. Any single elimination tournament will eliminate the best teams on average in any year before the get to the Final Four.

A better marker is the final AP and Coaches poll going into the tournament. The #1 seeds earned by KU are certainly signs of a tough conference and the attendant rankings of other Big XII teams have supported this observation.

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

Too bad they don't give trophies for poll rankings-- KU (Bill Self) would have a much gaudier trophy case than if they actually have to go out and play the game, lol.

xfitter 8 years, 4 months ago

Tournament says nothing about how good a conference or its teams are. How many got in does(aside from big east). Moving through in March and April is about getting hot at the right time, thought everyone knew that by now....

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Yea, I'd take the Big 12 over the SEC for KU. But the Big 10? That may be another story.

The Big 12 needs 12 teams, and not just for the obvious reason .. the conference name.

12 teams is a major conference. The SEC will be at 14. Big 10 is 12. ACC maybe to 16; Pac 12 at 12. The Big 12 will survive with the Big East dying. There is room for 5 major conferences.

But the Big 12 needs to move quick and be aggressive. Missouri is the Big 12's biggest anchor holding it back right now with the uncertainty. The Big 12 must demand an answer .. and if they won't commit (in stone), the Big 12 should look to expel them for an anticipatory breach, or whatever they can come up with.

It is urgent, because uncertainty equals instability. And you can't rebuild your conference with instability. It must be in stone. BYU is more likely to come if MU just leaves. And you never know how or when ground may start to shift again. The time is now, the Big East is weak. We need to snag the ones that fit (WVU and Louisville).

Adding TCU, and then BYU, Louisville, and West Virginia (with Missouri gone) gives us a pretty darn good football conference, but a much better basketball conference. The latter 3 can compete from day one for the conference title .. more than can really be said for any of the 4 that left (including our insecure friends to the east).

Best comment I heard was that Missouri really is more of cultural fit with the SEC than the Big 10. More "Arkansas than Iowa" was the quote. That about says it. And it would be truly fitting for Missouri to go back to its slave state roots. Birds of feather .... right? And would it be truly the icing on the cake if, after all of this, the SEC says "no thanks" to MU? I'm sure the spin will be that MU is committing to the Big 12. But if that happens, you know the SEC was looking at a more attractive 14th. Ah, to be Missouri. The best softball school in the midwest.

lee3022 8 years, 4 months ago

I do understand the desire to "keep up" with other conferences. But fan perception might not be the more important factor. The coaches should have much more say as they have to play the game.

Coach Self will not be greatly affected by adding BYU or West Virginia but the non-revenue sports will be greatly distressed, just as Self says. The University is here for academics and the athletics must not drive the academics. For academic purposes the out-of-time zone teams considered will not be beneficial (especially Boise State and West Virginia.)

The Big XII can be ten teams and stay with its brand. The Big Ten has not been ten for decades. The addition I would consider if Missouri leaves is Air Force, in an adjacent state unrepresented in the BIg XII with strong programs in all sports and excellent academics.

Vernon Riggs 8 years, 4 months ago

I think we have seen a Super Conference paradigm shift; 14 is the new 16.

I like 14 teams after we get a new TV contract. But I don't want to be in three time zones. Two will be okay. So that leaves the Big12 with the choice of going West or East. The Big12 owns the rights to the name The Big14.

Central/Mt Time Choices - BYU, Air Force, Colorado State, Houston, Tulane or Boise State.

Central/Eastern Time Choices - West Virginia, Rutgers, Louisville, South Florida, Houston, Tulane or Cincy

I like 14 teams over the Central and Eastern time zones.

Alex Berger 8 years, 4 months ago

It's not about the number as much as the quality of the schools in athletics. And as long as we have Texas in our conference they will be considered one of the elite (even when they are having a down year in football all of their other sports are some of the best in the country).

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

Other than Michigan State..not much too brag about as far as winning it all in the last couple of decades.. Some major Ohio State flops. Michigan had some of their best years vacated..

KKunde 8 years, 4 months ago

Last time I checked, Larry Keating took care of basketball scheduling... Not Bill Self... KULA, take your nonsense rant out with the Occupy Wallstreet Protesters, you'd be on similar pages IQ wise.

Dan Cook 8 years, 4 months ago

Self creates the blueprint. Keating builds the house.

actorman 8 years, 4 months ago

KKunde, you just showed that you're as stupid as KULA. If you think that the fact that 1% of the country controls 25% of the wealth is nonsense, I congratulate you: you're a completely zombie-ized Faux Noise viewer.

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

Yes, Larry Keating creates the basketball schedule with no input from Bill Self. Spoken like a true Top-Down Authoritarian Follower Sheep.

Jeeveshawk 8 years, 4 months ago

I would pick the big 12 also. The SEC is filled with overrated teams like Florida, Auburn, and Tennessee (which may be the most overrated team in any of the power conferences). Also Kansas will be considered a Southern state in the world of sports, which would take away the cause for our rivalry with Mizzou. Bonus, we would be forfeiting ourselves to the racist bad-guys from the civil war. Go Big12!

Yosemite 8 years, 4 months ago

We can't rewrite history. Jayhawkers were not brave and did not fight honorably. They truly were domestic terrorists. And of course Self would choose the Big 12, because KU will never be invited into the SEC.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

How else could he answer regardless if he meant it or not.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

"Kansas will be considered a Southern state in the world of sports, which would take away the cause for our rivalry with Mizzou."

I know of no one who thinks that.... Kansas is clearly a Midwest state regardless of who we play.

adamjhwkfan 8 years, 4 months ago

Screw moving to the Big 10, who really wants to watch basketball games with the scores in the 50's and 60's??????

LAJayhawk 8 years, 4 months ago

I'm actually quite surprised with the candid, seemingly honest answer from Coach Self on this question. I mean, of course he is going to say the Big 12 over the SEC as (1) no such invite exists, so is he going to say "yeah, screw the Big 12, bring on the SEC, baby!" And (2) he wants mizzou to stay for (a) better conference stability reasons and (b) to keep the rivalry in tack (regardless of the quality of the mizzou BBall program, that game always generates ratings).

So, with all of that, I expected to click on this article and hear him say, "oh Big 12, of course! It's the best league in the world, hands down!" Or something of that nature using political coach speak. In stead, he actually talked about what the benefits would be to move to the SEC and said why he thought the Big 12 was a better option. He still said what he was absolutely going to say regardless of what he actually felt, but the reasoning and logic he gave makes me believe he 100% feels this way.

That's one thing I love about Coach. He's [generally] very straight forward with his words, and the honesty really gives what he says so much more weight. It's refreshing in a world of politically measured speech.

rhollinshed 8 years, 4 months ago

I Love you Bill but I still say why be the big 12 with 10 members? A constant reminder of Colorado and Nebraska......and the other departure. Go to 12 and stay there until the super conferences grow. Then expand. But 12 should be the number.......in my opinion.

Robert Brock 8 years, 4 months ago

Let's replace terrific schools such as Colorado, Nebraska, Texas A&M, and Missouri with some crapola schools! That's the ticket!

lee3022 8 years, 4 months ago

A&M had pretty good bb teams. The rest? not so much. When was the last time Colorado or Nebraska beat Kansas in basketball? Missouri in Lawrence? They are not terrific schools to me. They simply were greedy. According to Beebe Nebraska was the team that would not talk equal revenue sharing. A&M left because they hate Texas. When did Nebraska or Colorado or Texas A&M win the Rose Bowl? TCU did last year. Cut them some slack and see what will happen

REHawk 8 years, 4 months ago

I concur with HEM that Missouri should be tossed from the league if they continue to hold up the realignment show. On another post I suggested that the Tigers poop or pull up their kinckers. Jayhawks have had some dandy games with them over the years, but if they continue to waver, I say to hell with them. Their current football team is struggling to compete successfully in the Big 12. Just imagine their agony if they join the football hungry SEC. Maybe they can eke out enough wins to play in the persimmon bowl.

Dan Harris 8 years, 4 months ago

KULA=An idiot, dolt ,dullard,imbecile,moron,who obviously is mentally deficient in his/her understanding of the strength (or weakness) of BASKETBALL conferences.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Just an fyi, KULA is not a troll, is not an idiot, etc.

KULA, as I understand from his posts, is one that has fallen off the Self bandwagon due to the past two NCAA tournament exits. That's his perspective. Still stinging from UNI/VCU.

Give him a break at least until the next season tips off. And perhaps make a reasoned argument against his points as some have done, vs. simply calling names.

Seems like a good time for a Brady-debate ....

LAJayhawk 8 years, 4 months ago

That's no excuse for being an ignoramus.**

**[Note: That is not name calling. Simply an accurate observation of someone who clearly seems ignorant of both KU's consistently high strength of schedule, the number of times they actually do play teams in the 3 conferences he seems to think they don't play, and the supposed "power" in the SEC.]

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

Thanks HEM. And yeah, I am still stinging from uni/vcu. And add to that, bradley/bucknell. I guess what most posters don't realize is that if you get out of the dyed in the wool friendly confines of Kansas and you wear a KU tshirt during basketball season, you actually (and deservedly) get razzed for the tournament failures (who you guys gonna lose to this year in the tournament--saw you on the ESPY's--AGAIN!). I wouldn't have any problem with BS if he actually lost in the tournament to a team of comparable talent.

Craig Colgin 8 years, 4 months ago

Not name calling or taking sides, as I respect all posters involved. My take for those that have or may yet fall off the so called "Self Bandwagon" goes like this. Who would we get that is proven better to come to KU. I can think of nobody. This is not a slam against KU at all. Im simply saying that there are indeed a few coaches out there that are proven better(in the tournament atleast). But I think they are pretty well set where they are. Now there may be some unknowns out there that are potentially better. But who knows? You can chalk me up on the bandwagon. Even though i will admit it took a few years. I don't think we have begun to see the success that will be the Bill Self era of KU Basketball.

Robin Smith 8 years, 4 months ago

anyone who doesn't recognize the great coaching acumen of Bill Self from long before he came to KU is simply not a very smart basketball observer.

sorry cragarhawk but this issue of people wondering how good Bill Self is is beyond stupid. Hall Of Fame destined, no question about it.

Robin Smith 8 years, 4 months ago

KULA = pansy

grow a pair and learn about basketball.

who cares if other people stupidly razz you -- especially when they razz you with the same uninformed and idiotic statements you came on here to spout.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

The Big 12 will ALWAYS be best..until its not and KU plays elsewhere.

Hank Cross 8 years, 4 months ago

Want a laugh? Here's a piece from SEC country about how they don't want MU either.

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/401949/michael-cummings/2011-10-09/sec-be-wary-missouri

Take away line: "My question, Mike, is are you really sure you want Missouri?

Let’s check the scoreboard.

NCAA football championships: Zero. NCAA basketball championships: Zero. NCAA titles in any major sport: That would also be zero."

jaymar74 8 years, 4 months ago

KULA is a moron wraped in an idiot, as Raymond would say.

jgkojak 8 years, 4 months ago

Ridiculous question because KU will never, ever be in the SEC.

actorman 8 years, 4 months ago

Thanks for the link, oxcal. Unfortunately I can't read it because it's asking for a user name and password. But I think I can get the gist of it from your comments.

And BTW, I think you're being overly kind to Misuse. It's not only that they have no championships in any major sport; they haven't even made it to a Final Four. Can you say "inferiority complex?"

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