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Oklahoma State defeats Kansas, 70-28

  • 2:30 p.m., Oct. 8, 2011
  • Boone Pickens Stadium, Stillwater, OK

Saturday, October 8, 2011

Easy Pickens: Jayhawks set more records for futility in 70-28 loss to Oklahoma State

Kansas cornerback Greg Brown lays out to force Oklahoma State receiver Hubert Anyiam out of bounds after a long reception during the first quarter on Saturday, Oct. 8, 2011 at Boone Pickens Stadium.

Kansas cornerback Greg Brown lays out to force Oklahoma State receiver Hubert Anyiam out of bounds after a long reception during the first quarter on Saturday, Oct. 8, 2011 at Boone Pickens Stadium.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Turner Gill

Kansas coach Turner Gill talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 70-28 loss to Oklahoma State on Oct. 8, 2011.

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Toben Opurum on OSU loss: 'It's embarrassing'

Kansas outside linebacker Toben Opurum talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 70-28 loss to Oklahoma State on Oct. 8, 2011.

KU cornerback Greg Brown defends coach Turner Gill

KU cornerback Greg Brown defends coach Turner Gill following the Jayhawks' 70-28 loss to Oklahoma State on Oct. 8, 2011.

— At this point, it almost has become a carnival-like atmosphere around the Kansas University football team. Come one, come all, schedule the Jayhawks and set a school record. Find the magic combination and you may be able to rewrite your entire record book.

That's basically what Oklahoma State did Saturday in front of 58,030 at Boone Pickens Stadium, where the Cowboys drubbed the Jayhawks, 70-28, and, in doing so, tied or set multiple school records on offense.

OSU's 70 points, 10 touchdowns, most points in a half (56) and most points in a quarter (35 in the first) all were modern-era records. The Cowboys' 494 yards through the air established a Kansas record for passing yards allowed. And the total came from two different guys, marking the first time in OSU history that two quarterbacks had passed for 200 or more yards in the same game. Oklahoma State starter Brandon Weeden was 24-of-28 for 288 yards and five TDs before being relieved late in the second quarter. His replacement Clint Chelf closed out the victory with marks of 14-of-21 passing for 206 yards and two TDs.

"When you lose, you lose," KU coach Turner Gill said. "Numbers, records and all those things, that's part of it, and I understand that. But I'm trying to make sure we do some things better, defensively, offensively, special teams, in all those areas."

Saturday, that did not occur, and the double-dose of humiliation made a bad day worse for the Jayhawks, who fell to 2-3 overall and 0-2 in Big 12 play.

"It's just an extra blow knowing that a team's going out there and setting records on us," junior cornerback Greg Brown said. "They played a good game, but a record-setting performance against us doesn't sit too well."

Each week, the KU coaching staff claims improvement is taking place. Yet, each week, the Jayhawks' performance on the field fails to show it. Sure, Kansas played hard to the end and even outscored OSU, 21-14, in the second half. But the 56-7 halftime score made that fact irrelevant.

Consider these crippling numbers from Saturday's game.

• Oklahoma State scored touchdowns on all eight of its first-half possessions, with each of its first five drives taking less than 1:50 off the clock. That included three drives that took less than a minute, and one that took 30 seconds.

• Weeden's stellar passing numbers, which included a school record for completion percentage (85.7), came in just 11 minutes. After his fast start, Weeden was given the rest of the day off with less than three minutes to play in the first half. Two plays after Weeden replaced his helmet with a baseball cap, Chelf hit Isaiah Anderson with a 24-yard touchdown pass that gave OSU its highest-scoring first half since 1973.

"That's not a good feeling at all, knowing that he played basically just one quarter and he can go hang it up like that," Brown said.

• KU turned the ball over a season-high four times, giving the potent OSU offense short field after short field.

"We're not at that point in our program where we can turn the ball over like that and still be competitive in the ballgame," Gill said.

• The Cowboys totaled 600 yards of offense, making them the third straight KU opponent to go over 530 yards and the second this year to break 600. They did so in 11 fewer minutes and five fewer plays than the Jayhawks, who finished with 478 yards, 316 of which came through the air from QB Jordan Webb.

"We're not at a point where we're able to compete in all phases against that kind of an offense," defensive coordinator Vic Shealy said. "All we can do is go back to work. That may be cliche, but I do believe that the only way you do get better is by going back to work."

Perhaps that's been the most frustrating part of the awful stretch that has landed KU's defense at the bottom of the NCAA's statistical rankings. It's not so much a lack of effort that's plaguing the Jayhawks as it is a lack of preparation, instinct and execution. Asked why he thought the KU defense again struggled so mightily on Saturday, Gill provided two answers.

"We have to give credit to the opponents, No. 1," he said. "No. 2, we have to make sure our guys are able to make the plays they need to make."

Why aren't they?

"I think we're still thinking and reacting instead of, when you see something, just reacting to it," Gill added.

Part of that, at least this week, was due to the performance by Oklahoma State.

"They have a prolific quarterback," KU offensive coordinator Chuck Long said. "The guy's going to the NFL. They're very mature, they have a mature offense and you know going into the game that they're going to move the ball and score. Our issue was we didn't want to compound that by turning the ball over, and that's something we need to get cleaned up."

Despite just about everything going Oklahoma State's way, more than half the stadium cleared out by the middle of the third quarter because of a driving rain that came down as fast as the Cowboys lit up the scoreboard. It must have felt like a home game for KU.

So now the focus shifts to next week, when No. 3 Oklahoma comes to Lawrence. Your move, OU. If Oklahoma State can do this to the Jayhawks, what are the Sooners going to do? It's a fair question — one that will be answered in front of a national television audience courtesy of ESPN2.

At this rate, one has to wonder if even the complimentary tickets the KU athletic department is planning to give away for students can help fill Memorial Stadium. Full stadium or not, Shealy said the coaching staff would use the loss to OSU as motivation to get ready for the Sooners.

"That will be reiterated to them throughout different conversations throughout the week," Shealy said. "Our players need to be psychologically strong, and we'll find out what we're made out of."

Comments

Layne Pierce 2 years, 11 months ago

Seriously

I do see improvement in our offense, our personnel. The fact is, however, that we must recruit defensive linemen or die. KU made no real progress under Glen Mason, until Gilbert Brown and Stubblefield. We are scoring a lot more points than last year, even against good teams, but as Tom Osborne once said, you can win some games when you give up 50, but not very many.

Everybody should be playing, we should at least be trying to develop some more defensive depth. Who knows, there may be a kid just sitting there, who might get it done.

But regardless, without defensive tackles, we don't know how good our linebackers and dbacks might be. We know how bad they are without them.

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Kirk 2 years, 11 months ago

The points we're scoring are happening during mercy time, which now takes up a whole half of the game.

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Ethan Berger 2 years, 11 months ago

that was today, the past 4 games our offense has improved and you can't argue with it because it stats. Unfortunately, improving from last year isn't something great. We went from really bad to average.

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ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 11 months ago

Our past four games were against a division two team, a Mac team, middle of the road acc team, and what will be the 8th or 9th best team in the big 12. Watch our numbers sink like a stone in the weeks to come!

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MN_Jayhawk39 2 years, 11 months ago

Ahpers, I've read a lot of your comments and I'm not sure it's worth my time to reply to you post, but if you are at all a fan of college football you will notice that the "middle of the road acc team" better known as Georgia Tech is now ranked in the top 15 in both polls and has a top 5 offense through 5 weeks of play. So far we have had the pleasure of playing two teams that have top offenses. That is not a good thing for a team that is young (70% of guys on the field are freshmen and sophmores) and rebuilding. There is not a team in america that would raise their hands to play the schedule that KU has to play this year.

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ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 11 months ago

If you've read my post you know the most important thing of all. I'm always right and you're always wrong! That and sometimes my grammar ain't to well.

Gt has skewed numbers due to a game against us and has played exactly nobody. Think about it, if they had 0 yards in the game following us they would still be averaging over 300 yards a game over those two games They have a weak schedule and are heading into the meat of that schedule right now. They'll end up "decent" with 3-4 losses. Not the the team with the most prolific offense in NCAA history that we made them look like for one game.

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Kirk 2 years, 11 months ago

Well, GT did hammer the crap out of Maryland, 21-16. You gotta be seriously torqued to manage that

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Ethan Berger 2 years, 11 months ago

and you want tommy who has brought his team down to one of the worst in the conf?

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Kirk 2 years, 11 months ago

I wouldn't say our offense is "average" in the big 12.

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Ethan Berger 2 years, 11 months ago

I think average is fair. They aren't bad but they aint good. We did have 500 yards. Our defense is worst then awful.

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gardenjay 2 years, 11 months ago

Um, no, we scored the first TD in the OSU game, and I believe we had the first QB sack on D as well.

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David Leathers 2 years, 11 months ago

Recruiting top DL's won't make a damn bit of difference if our coaching staff doesn't make some change. I have never in my life seen such a bland blitzing scheme! I mean seriously, we could have Suh, Gilbert Brown (in his prime), Dwight Freeney, and Derrick Thomas (RIP Great One) and it just wouldn't matter. Blitzing four linemen when we know our opponent is going to pass, and dropping back into a less than mediocre cover two zone is just plain STUPID!!! It's un-imaginative. It's Dull. Just like our coaches... Get creative. Get Picasso!

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NebraskaJayhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Don't quote TO on this site like he is some god to KU fans like he is in Nebraska. He isn't.

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ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 11 months ago

My favorite was taking the timeout to discuss if they should kick the field goal or go for it on fourth down, down 48 points, at the end of the first half

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Brennan Keller 2 years, 11 months ago

Looks like we will go 2-10 :(. Makes me sad to see how far this program has fallen since the awesome orange bowl run.

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Kirk 2 years, 11 months ago

I'm getting tired of hearing (in so many words) our coaches put the blame on the players for not executing. At some point, the coaches have to share in the responsibility.

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haydenhawkco 2 years, 11 months ago

I agree - if you watch the players, they never put themselves in position to make plays and don't read the offense very well. That is all on the coaches.

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BarkingHawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Please, people. Going back to North Dakota State - the first example of not having a team ready to play - to today, our nice, decent, but inept head coach simply lacks the ability to instill the single quality that every team that plays this game must have: Toughness.

Historically at Kansas, the talent level is rarely superior. Historically at Kansas State, the talent level is rarely superior. However, there is an enormous emphasis on physical, mental and emotional toughness at the latter. The results speak for themselves.

It is becoming readily apparent that this team is not physically tough, notably the defense. Many, particularly in the secondary, shy from tackles. Few at any position deliver the blows typical of even outmanned Mangino or Mason teams. Their strength and conditioning is suspect at best.

It also appears mentally lacking, too often out of position, compounded by poor angles in tackling with coverage errors abounding.

Finally, it has, too often, given every indication of flat out quitting, most notably last year vs. KSU, last month at Georgia Tech and today. When things start to get tough, too many check out. Not going to get hurt today.

The better coaches, most of whom are not as nice as Coach Gill, may abide a talent deficiency, but will not tolerate a lack of these qualities of toughness. Players have to fear the consequences of a failure to exemplify them enough on Saturday to dread the following week of practice. It's evident that, with this Coach, they do not. He has failed to show an ability to instill these most essential qualities for success on a football field, and this shortcoming has caused the illness that started last year to reach epidemic proportions within this team.

The only way those of us - who contribute money to the Williams Fund, buy football season tickets and attend the games - can show the level of our dissatisfaction is by refusing to do any of them until the clearly necessary change is made. I'll give the minimum to the Williams Fund, but Sheahon, if you allow this to go any longer, you've lost my four-seat season ticket purchases and attendance until you make the move.

I like our head coach, just not as a head coach. We can't tolerate being the league and national joke. We rapidly are becoming so.

The Chancellor and the A.D. are now on the clock.

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NebraskaJayhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. However, where were all of you people when Mangino was getting raked over the coals. Because what you are describing as far as a coaching style...he was every bit that part and so was his staff. Forget the final season he had. It was unfortunate because of the witch hunt that ensued because a few daddys were upset about their son's treatment.

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BarkingHawk 2 years, 11 months ago

NebraskaJayhawk -

I was wholeheartedly in Mangino's corner. It takes a tough guy to make it work at a tough place. His recruiting needed to pick up some, but the effort on Saturdays was always there. And, they hit.

When the chancellorship changed, the political correctness took over the program. Mangino was not the politician, the 'deeds' were done (such as they were), Perkins needed some cover from his new boss and coach was fired. The hiring of the politically correct, anti-Mangino didn't save Perkins once the financial scandal(s) surfaced.

Now, we are where we are.

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Lynn Stuart 2 years, 11 months ago

Nebraskajayhawk

You hit the nail on the head I always loved Mangino and he was a scape goat, and now they need to try to bring him back, let him run his program and all the kissy huggy people need to stay out of his way all the nice things the football program has is because of Mangino

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TenaciousD 2 years, 11 months ago

Checking the data show that Mangino's big rise was on the back of Def Coord. Bill Young (and the offensive prowess of Todd Reesing). Until Young was hired, Mangino's teams sucked. Then the defense went from one of the worst in the country to top 5 in the year of the Orange Bowl. Then Bill Young left to go to Miami and Mangino's Jayhawks sucked the next year losing their last 7 games.

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voiceofreason2 2 years, 11 months ago

BarkingHawk you are officially my favorite "poster" after reading this. Ha! You are correct on every facet. I also agree with the comments made on your post. I shake my head every time I am reminded of the travesty that was firing Mangino and hiring Gill. Unfortunately, in response to the comment on getting Mangino back, retrieving Mangino I think is downright impossible after the way he was railroaded outta Lawrence. However, I am in total agreement that we need a change in coaching staff, and I am more than willing to join the boycott to make it happen.

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ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 11 months ago

No no no! My favorite was taking a timeout on the second play of the game! Are you freaking kidding me!

You see, most of you just randomly follow what's going on through the paper. You're not watching/listening while following gamecast and jesse's post every week like a certain few of us are. We've seen this for a year and a half now while the majority is just now figuring it out. And with this article the tide has turned in ole ahperse's direction.

I was totally expecting Mr Tait to come out with the last of the homers article discussing something like the team scoring on the first drive shows improvement or winning the second half shows heart. Instead he ran into the phone both and changed into a Team Ahperse t-shirt and did work. Welcome aboard Mr Tait. I've been expecting you!

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NebraskaJayhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Well....it's arrogant...everything you're saying. I'll give you that. I told you so is for 1st and 2nd graders ahpers. You've made some good points the last couple of years....mostly thick with sarcasm...but good points nonetheless. Personally I think Matt does a good job of writing coverage of the team. He too is probably starting to get fed up with this coaching staff, but most of us like to at least give a guy a chance, unlike yourself. But it is definitely becoming apparent that this staff has no idea what they are doing.

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ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 11 months ago

I'm sorry if you ever thought I would be more of an arrogant 2nd grader. I'm not afraid to go "I know you are but what am I" when needed if that's what it takes.

I love tait too but but sometimes he types with his red and blue keyboard. The only time I've seen him critical of gillwas when twitter was taken away. Even after yesterday's loss when other reports where taking their shots asking gill questions he poured it on pretty thick before asking some of his.

But something must of happened on the way home. Maybe Jesse threw some crazy numbers his way. Maybe the gas from Keegans Dutch ovens (love ya Tom, you're a mans man. John daily esq) damaged the homer nerve in his brain and made him compare him to compare ku games to carnivals leaving the reader to infer that we are being coached by a bunch of freaks. Awesome.

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gongs4ku 2 years, 11 months ago

I haven't been one of those people who thinks a coach should go after such a short time, but for the first time, I'm starting to hope this guy gets bought out after this year.

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Eric TheCapn 2 years, 11 months ago

I don't know why you guys are talking about hiring a new coaching staff. The best option would be to fire the coaching staff, cut the football program and do something worthwhile with the savings.

For example, give the scholarships to scholars instead of thugged-out failboats, and use the coaches' salaries on instruction and resources. Or, start a men's soccer team and a few other sports worth watching.

But alas, we'll probably pay the next coach even more to do less than Mangino ever did, and KU Endowment will probably reward people with scholarships for going to football games (does the ridiculous KU First program still exist?).

Meanwhile the basketball team could be its own one-team conference a la Notre Dame football and the other teams can stay in the Big 12 (10).

-Chancellor Capn

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FarneyMac 2 years, 11 months ago

You're not very smart. And racist too, if your "thugged-out" comment is any indication.

By the way, KU First was a university-wide fundraising campaign that raised $650 million dollars FOR THE UNIVERSITY. God, stupidity is rampant.

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Eric TheCapn 2 years, 11 months ago

"Thugged out" has nothing to do with race. It has to do with being a thug. Pushing people around, acting like your god's gift to earth, disrupting class, getting in fights, cutting in the cafeteria and threatening violence/cursing loudly in public when people said something, and committing crimes. Thuggery.

KU First also has given out tens of thousands of dollars to students for attending sporting events, which I find unconscionable. They did it by lottery. College tuition should not be a gamble and students should be rewarded by the University for merit and need, not for propping up a multi-million dollar athletic corporation.

That's what the players and KU First did when I was a student. I doubt the players attitudes have changed.

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Billy Derringer 2 years, 11 months ago

now saying "thugged-out" means your a racist? only a racist would think that way!!!

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kufanman88 2 years, 11 months ago

As I have stated many times before, Gill's contract was a major mistake by Perkins. Lets buy out his contract and actually hire a coach on merit. He was not the best coach available or willing to come to Kansas at the time- not by a long shot. So why did we give him a contract that was commensurate with a BCS bowl win? Perkins will end up being one of the biggest disappointments in KU history as an AD. With this and the ticket scandal, KU's reputation has been irreparably tarnished. Very sad. Hopefully we can get a new start. Here is to the new AD turning over a new leaf and starting fresh.

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Cmill1221 2 years, 11 months ago

This guy has got to go!!! All the people who dog on mangino and his 7 game losing streek need to open their eyes!!! How long will this current losing streak last?!?!? Now that we dont have Dan Hawkins to bail us out? And how many games in manginos 7 game skid that got mangino fired did he lose by 50!!!??? And then to the people who use manginos record vs the souther teams in the big12. What do you think gills record vs the south will be after this year or what his overall record in ALL the big 12 will be? All you gill lovers who wanted mangino fired have no more excuses. This guy needs to be fired. Our team has ZERO heart. I remember in manginos 2nd year we had banks floodman, Charles Gordon, Gabe Toomey, Vaughn (the under sized transfer center who won big12 new comer of the year) Bill Whittemore, Clark Green and Mark simmons. All thoes guys had heart! Not big name recruits by any stretch but they played their @sses off and because of that they went to a bowl game. I have never seen a ku team just plain give up like these guys do. And if you feel these kids are not giving up then that's a bigger problem of clueless coaching. This is BAD EVEN BY KU STANDARDS!!! KU has never been a powerhouse but hell guys we were at least competitive at times. Let's get this guy out and start over before we have 4 more years to really screw things up.

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actorman 2 years, 11 months ago

It is embarrassing and depressing to see KU play like this, and (much as I hate to admit it) perhaps the TG haters are right and he's in over his head. But I am sick to death of all the Mangino apologists. Just because Gill might not work out doesn't mean it was the wrong move to fire the big jerk. He was much more of an embarrassment to the KU program than this defense could ever be. And it's idiotic to say that he was fired because of the seven-game losing streak; that was just the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, he did some good things for the program and had one glorious season. But that doesn't come close to making up for the negatives. As I've mentioned numerous times, he wasn't just abusive to the players, he was abusive to support staff and countless others. And I have yet to see a SINGLE one of the MM apologists respond to that rather important fact. Even if you're right that football players expect a certain amount of screaming and harassment so what he did wasn't that bad (which I don't believe you are), that still doesn't justify treating other people that way. So perhaps it was a mistake to hire Gill -- and it certainly seems to have been a big mistake to have paid him such a high amount and guarantee five years -- but that still doesn't mean it was wrong to fire Mangino.

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NebraskaJayhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

There are tons of college football coaches who have the same demeanor as MM. He was hired to win football games and coach players into their dreams as NFL players. He accomplished both, even though the odds were greatly stacked against him at KU. He didn't make friends with staff and boosters.....and in his case, maybe that was commendable. Did he do some things that were considered harsh by his superiors? Perhaps...but you don't fire a Kansas coach that wins the Orange Bowl. You discipline him and move on. That was a witch hunt from the start.

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actorman 2 years, 11 months ago

You can't just lump in boosters and staff as if they're the same thing; one is a bunch of rich people who can choose to interact or not interact with him, and to spend or not spend their money as they see fit; the other is people who are in a WORK environment and should not be forced to endure abuse as part of the job. No one should ever treat employees that way, and if they do they should be fired.

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Cmill1221 2 years, 11 months ago

He was a FOOTBALL coach!! It's not always sunshine and rainbows. Give me a break. He was verbally abusive. Boo frickin hoo. You are playing division 1 football (even tho it looks like KU forgot that). True or false: if mangino had won the 7 games in a row to finish the season and win the north would he have been fired? NO!!! So stop with this BS! Mommy daddy the coach yelled at me! Suck it up kid, you have a scolarship to play football. Get over it and get back on the field.

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actorman 2 years, 11 months ago

Again it's funny how you conveniently ignore the fact that he wasn't just verbally (AND physically) abusive to his players, he also was abusive to his support staff. No one should have to work in an atmosphere like that, including players. But even if you're right about the players, that still doesn't justify treating people who WORK for him that way. And somehow you magically ignore that point.

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Cmill1221 2 years, 11 months ago

I didn't ignore it. But I'll adress it for you again. He is a football coach not a guidence councler. If you don't like the coaching style a player/staff member should have gone to buffalo and played for turner gill. I never saw anything about physical abuse. Other than dicipline such as extra bear crawls or sprints at the end of practice. Even Terry Allen was guilty of that with Reggie Duncan and that guy who got stuck in the drive through window. Now you decided to ignore my question so I will ask it again.... If Mangino had won the last 7 games in a row and won the big12 north would he have been fired??? NO!!!! So your point about this abuse issue is compleatly pointless!!!! It was a witch hunt and you know it. As for "people shouldent need to put up w/ that kind of abuse at work.". BS again!! People every day take it from there managers! And the higher paying job the more stress and abuse people take. Outrageous to say he was fired for thoes reasons when the abuse issue is debatable at best.

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actorman 2 years, 11 months ago

You're right that if he had won seven in a row, he wouldn't have been fired. But that speaks more to warped priorities that winning place over human values than to anything else.

And as for people having to put up with an abusive boss because other people do, that's a ludicrous argument. So if one woman is being abused by her husband, that makes it okay for another woman to be abused by her husband???

And what does high pay have to do with anything? Do you think a secretary or administrative assistant in the athletic department is paid so highly that they should have to put up with being treated like crap at work? And even if they were being paid highly, that still wouldn't justify being treated that way. No one should have to put up with that kind of environment. Just because that may be the way things are in a lot of places doesn't make it right.

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voiceofreason2 2 years, 11 months ago

I personally have sat back and ignored your comments on MM's so called "abuse" to his players and staff because it is fruitless, and I have no idea what you base your claims on besides what you think you hear in the news. I personally know players and staff for MM that never had any complaints. Was he a hard ass? You bet. Again, it's football. Nothing Mangino ever did to his players or staff was worth firing him for. I guarantee every good coach has said and done the exact same thing MM did. The difference? His size, and Lew didn't like him because he couldn't push him around(no pun intended).

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actorman 2 years, 11 months ago

I knew a player on the team and got a lot of the inside scoop. I am not simply basing it on news reports. And it's interesting that MM's defenders keep talking abut "players and staff," as if I'm only talking about players and coaches. I'm talking about secretaries, administrative assistants, etc. as well. MM was a jerk to everybody and no one could stand him. I'm not expecting a coach to be a choirboy, but I am expecting a coach to generally treat people with some type of civility, especially his underlings.

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FightnMangino64 2 years, 11 months ago

As a former player, who played under Mangino. I can tell you, HE WAS NOT ABUSIVE TO THE PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the ones who started complaining were the ones who werent playing, look it up. It was wrong to fire him and the witch hunt was more than likely a major part of the final losing streak. I was there before him and during the first part of his reign. He did what he had to do to get the best out of us that we were capable of doing.

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Cmill1221 2 years, 11 months ago

If you are trying to knock on that bowl game you have issues. We were 2-10 the year before that. And considering the coach we have we won't even sniff a bowl game in the next 5 years. Btw that bowl game was the first bowl game we had been to in 10 years!!! And if he was on that 03 team THANK YOU!! You made us relevant again and we beat brad smith and missouri that year!! Something we won't do for a LONG TIME!!

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FightnMangino64 2 years, 11 months ago

yes i was on that team. i was there from 2000- 2004

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hawkster007 2 years, 11 months ago

Ug, so far I have resisted the temptation to post anything negative about Gill. But at the end of the OU/Texas game, even Kirk Herbstreet (who I respect) piled on and rhetorically asked, "Has KU played any football since Mangino left, the program is a mess"...Ouch, what a shot to Gill, and that is from bland, conservative Herbstreet. Gill is a gentleman and a nice guy, but not everyone is cut out to be a successful Div. 1 BCS coach. I did hear of this late breaking news....

At halftime of the OSU game today, Turner Gill issued a press release indicating he will be before the Big 12 Board on Monday to propose TG-MR-56-7. Gill indicated it will be a mercy rule for Big 12 football, but he stressed it would only apply in limited situations under the following 10 caveats:

1) The football coach of said school must be ill prepared to coach Division I BCS football, and so that coach should be allowed to enforce a mercy rule. 2) The football coach of said school must have been hired by an incompetent AD whose only other hiring at the school was also a major bust. 3) The football program must have achieved at least a 10,000 reduction in attendance under the direction of the new coach. 4) There must be two former all-American quarterbacks on the football staff that have been unable to land a quarterback recruit, but have no explanation for that. 5) There must be two former all-American quarterbacks on the football staff that fail to understand that most quarterback recruits do not want to come to a program which hands the football off to running backs 75% of the time, during the first two downs, and then is forced to predictably pass on 3rd down and face unbearable defensive pressure. 6) The offensive coordinator has to be void of any clue of how to deal with an aggressive pass rush, because said offensive coordinator seldom runs any kind of screen passes or misdirection plays to keep the defense honest. 7) The football coach of said school has bigger priorities of establishing player decorum rules, designing game uniforms, and making sure that nobody knows who is on the football team (no names on the uniforms). 8) The football coach of said school must not have placed any priority on recruiting defensive players in the first two years, and is generally void of any defensive coaching skills. 9) The football coach of said school must be void of any personality and emotion. 10) The football coach must be grossly overpaid considering 1 through 9 above.

Caveat 11 was scratched, it required that the team be previously and successfully coached by a fat man.

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jayhawkmike 2 years, 11 months ago

Im sorry u spent time on your clever comment, as it was not clever or insightful in anyway. You may be jaybates brother?

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Kevin Studer 2 years, 11 months ago

Hey, where is 100?

Recruit!!!!!

Believe!!!!!

Speeeeed!!!!!

Time to give up the dream.

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Cmill1221 2 years, 11 months ago

Hahahahahahaha. He was all over the place week 1&2. Funny what happens when reality sets in.

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topflight 2 years, 11 months ago

So, I have been real curious about the Terry Allen/Turner Gill Comparison.

From 1989 to 1996, Terry Allen was 75-26 at Northern Iowa. 8-3, 8-4,11-2,12-2,8-4,8-4,8-5,12-2, all winning seasons. He also never finished below second in his conference. Terry Allen was 20-33 while at KU before being fired before the season ended.

Turnover Gill was 20-30 in 4 years at Buffalo. 2-10, 5-7, 8-6, 5-7. Turnover Gill is now 5-11 at KU. He wont even come close to reaching the number of wins Terry Allen had. THAT IS SCARY.

Granted those are 2 different divisions of football, but I can completely see a reason for hiring Terry Allen years ago. Based on his years of success, it apepared to be a good hire. Obviously it turned out horrible,when you hire a teddy bear to coach. We then follow it up with another teddy bear. What could they have possible seen? One 8-6 season does not a good coach make. I also still can't get over the fact he was "20-30". One winning season and we here at KU hire him like he was the hottest coach on the block.

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bville_hawk 2 years, 11 months ago

The clue on Terry Allen should have been that when he was at Northern Iowa he didn't start Kurt Warner until he was a senior.

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actorman 2 years, 11 months ago

More and more, it appears that the hiring of Gill was a mistake. However, the 20-30 record is not the reason for it. You act like 20-30 at Buffalo -- BUFFALO, for crying out loud, has no value. That was far superior to their record for decades before. And he was being hired to resurrect a team that had fallen fast from its Orange Bowl season and had nothing left in the cupboard. I don't know Northern Iowa's history, but I would place a large wager that it was MUCH stronger than Buffalo's was, and that Terry Allen didn't have to be responsible at Northern Iowa for basically building a program from scratch, like Gill did at Buffalo.

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741hawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Just the facts:

The worst defense in FBS last season was Eastern Michigan, which gave up 7.4 yards per play. The worst BCS team was Indiana, which gave up 6.7 yards per play.

Prior to Saturday's contest, KU was giving up 8.5 yards per play. They gave up 9.3 yards per play against OSU, although OSU was in the prevent offense most of the 2nd half.

Another amazing stat -- KU was allowing .739 points PER PLAY prior to Saturday. Against OSU, they allowed over 1 point per play.

I notice that the posters have thinned due to lack of interest while most of the HCTG suppporters have FINALLY seen the light. Above all else, this is embarassing to those who support the University.

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topflight 2 years, 11 months ago

Wow. 1 point per play. We will definitely get 60+ put on us by OU and 50+ by KSU. Probably higher, but trying to be optimistic.

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Benjamin Simon 2 years, 11 months ago

the HCTG apologists keep giving the same argument: "wait another year so he can recruit his own players."

here's the problem: the coaching staff is now on notice. the alumni base is fed up, attendance is down, games aren't competitive, the only records being set are for fielding one of the worst teams in kansas history and one of the worst teams in the FBS.

the only players that can turn the program around at this point, the only players worth a lick, are going to have more than one scholarship offer. why on earth would those players pick kansas over any other school, particularly when the coaching staff is so unstable, and the head coach is only games away from getting fired?

wake up!! gill won't be able to recruit "his players." if he won't be able to recruit, and we can't win games, there's no hope left. it's time for him to go, the sooner the better.

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nuleafjhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Here's my vote for TG's new theme song:

I've fallen... I have sunk so low I messed up Better I should know So don't come round here And tell me I told you so...

Heaven bend to take my hand Nowhere left to turn I'm lost to those I thought were friends To everyone I know Oh they turn their heads embarassed Pretend that they don't see But it's one missed step One slip before you know it And there doesn't seem a way to be redeemed

Though I've tried, I've fallen... I have sunk so low I messed up Better I should know So don't come round here And tell me I told you so..

excerpt from " Fallen ", Sarah McLachlan

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willie_fu_fu 2 years, 11 months ago

This team should surpass New Mexico for worse program in the nation soon if it hasen't already.

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droppinplates 2 years, 11 months ago

Gill must be given more time?? Bill Snyder took over for Ron Prince at Kstate and in his second or third year has his team nationally ranked. Not only is he not being humiliated every single weekend, he is coaching a ranked team with a lot of Ron Prince recruits. Having records set every week is no indication that a team is improving. The KU defense is the worst thing I've seen in all of sports!

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Maracas 2 years, 11 months ago

The Turner Gill horror will set the program back years and years. Lew Perkins locked KU into a ridiculous iron-clad contract with a coach who had little to recommend him other than some "pundits" felt it was his "time".

Gill needs to be canned and some smart lawyer needs to find a way to sue Lew Perkins for the remainder of Gill's contract. It's almost as if Perkins was thumbing his nose at KU and laughing on the way out.

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Stephen Johnson 2 years, 11 months ago

I was embarrassed. It appears we have no talent and no ability to coach. Gil is seriously over his head

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 11 months ago

Can the embarrassment that we have faced over the past three weeks, trigger the anti-defamation clause or publicly humiliating the university clause of HCTG's contract?

I'm sure there has to be a way to buy out his contract, cheaper than $2mm/year.

Additionally, I keep waiting to hear that we need defensive help from HCTG and we have hired the following person...this has been long overdue since we lost our DC earlier this year. If he came out with a statement like this, it might buy him a couple of more games.

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mustlehustle 2 years, 11 months ago

Kansas has been a "punch line" ever since the hiring of Turner Gill....his antics have been "Mike Singletary" like and with the Ticket scandal, the convenient resignation of Lew Perkins to avoid facing any charges, makes Kirk Herbestreit's comment on national TV "Is Kansas still playing football...that program is a train wreck" ring loud and clear.

The addition of TCU has pushed Kansas farther down the list of consideration for any "Tier 2 and 3" high school football player from Texas.

Kansas should consider hiring Mike Leach or Chad Morris. Leach took over a dismal Texas Tech program, and created an electric offense that put many players into the NFL.. He's available, and has very deep high school football coach relationships in Texas.

The other candidate to consider is "Chad Morris." Google this guy if you don't know him. He won State Football Championships in high school football with 2 different schools, and was "Todd Reesing's" coach at Lake Travis High School.

He was hired to be the OC at Tulsa, and quickly turned that program around. To the point, he was hired away by Clemson to be their OC this year. He is well respected in the high school coaching ranks in Texas and is considered one of the rising stars in the college coaching ranks.

It is imperative to have influence and relationships to have any high school player consider your school, and that goes double in the State of Texas.

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kureignman 2 years, 11 months ago

Mike Leach is a nut job. I would love the selection of Morris though. Even better is if we could get a defensive minded guy.

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Maracas 2 years, 11 months ago

It's sad, but rehiring Terry "Gameball" Allen would be an improvement. That's how far Perkins and Gill have set this program back. The university is on the hook for $10M, as well. Perkins should be investigated for this.

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Dan Pawlowski 2 years, 11 months ago

"It's definitely too soon," said sophomore quarterback Jordan Webb. "People who are questioning us outside of the program, they can say what they want, but we're going to keep working hard and try our best. We're just gonna shut their opinions out because it really doesn't matter. If they knew half of what they thought they knew, they'd be in the coaching profession."

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Cmill1221 2 years, 11 months ago

Well I played HS ball. Sign me up!!

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Dan Pawlowski 2 years, 11 months ago

Not sure how your comment is related to the quote I posted.

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Cmill1221 2 years, 11 months ago

I read the quote wrong. I thought the refrence to "half of what they think they know" was about the staff. My bad

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Kevin Studer 2 years, 11 months ago

If Webb doesn't think this team is an embarrassing joke, then he doesn't know half of what HE thinks he does.

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TwistedFish31 2 years, 11 months ago

I have never woke up "wishing" for a particular headline on kusports.com. "Turner Gill Fired After Embarrassing Loss."

His reaction: Same as always...nothing.

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BarkingHawk 2 years, 11 months ago

BarkingHawk(anonymous)replies…

When the chancellorship changed, political correctness took over the program. Mangino was not the politician, the 'deeds' were done (such as they were), Perkins needed some cover from his new boss (after all, 'they' did happen on his watch) and coach was fired. The hiring of the politically correct, anti-Mangino didn't save Perkins once the financial scandal(s) surfaced.

This problem will solve itself. The question is whether Zenger will prevent further damage before it does. This, as much or more than conference reallignment (which could be handled little differently than it was, since we had so few cards to play anyway), will be his first big test as AD.

Why will the problem solve itself?

First, people will simply not show up, buy tickets or support the Williams Fund. Hence, revenues, interest and support will drop. Bad, and at a particularly bad time.

Second, empty seats and unprecedented loss margins will brand the Gill program for what it is. Quality recruits will simply pass. Absent blind allegiance to KU, wouldn't you? I'm a lifelong Jayhawk, but if both Bill Snyder and Turner Gill knocked on my door to recruit one of my sons, it would take no more than a nanosecond to decide which one to let in, at least to be their football coach. And, I have heard no reason to not personally like Turner Gill.

The third reason melds with the second. KSU is enjoying a massive resurgence under the Master. Mizzou, assuming they stay in the league, is solid and will continue its run against us (4 of the last 5, and counting). Well-heeled Jayhawks, along with many others, will not tolerate the beatings we experienced last year and can only anticipate going forward. We have to compete with and beat these people, or why play at all? Booster money will be there to help prevent these intolerable embarrassments and buy Gill out. If not, or if otherwise needed, some of the new money from TV and buyout(s) should, rather must be used.

The question now is if Zenger will make this still gut-wrenching move sooner or later. There is precedent for mid-season firings (Allen, even Prince up the road) and after two years (Valesente being the most recent). If the AD does not act soon, he will set the next coach up for an even bigger job to rebuild what was torn down so quickly by the previous firing and this hiring. That would be a mistake, particularly in this atmosphere of conference musical chairs. Some quality candidates might just pass (they may have before).

The other, perhaps deeper questions? Will this chancellor, for a variety of reasons, let him? And what will he do if she won't?

Soon, we're going to find out a lot about the stomach and backbone of Dr. Zenger.

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Kirk 2 years, 11 months ago

Stellar. I agree to the letter.

I particularly appreciate your observation that the "problem will solve itself", and indeed it's true.

In the meantime, it's okay, I'm used to wincing (longtime KU fan)

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voiceofreason2 2 years, 11 months ago

From a recruiting standpoint, the sooner we fire Gill the better. Hopefully good players will still have the recent memory of the Orange bowl and a ranked KU football team in their minds, and want to play for a good coach to get it back on track. If we wait too long, recruits will only have the knowledge that KU is and will always be the joke of the conference(whichever one that may be). If we allow the program to continue to be driven into the ground, then the brief glory days of yore will be forgotten. We won't sell tickets. We won't get a coach. We won't get players. And we may as well be Wichita State after Lew.

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gardenjay 2 years, 11 months ago

Mark Mangino won one Big 12 game his final year here, and the fans were similarly not very nice to him that last season. Short memories.

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Mark Lindrud 2 years, 11 months ago

I was happy with our wins knowing that our offense looked really good and I was seeing improvement so far. I had predicted 4-5 wins this season and at this point I fear another win may not come this season, but I do hope I am wrong. Would love our only two wins to be against A&M and Missouri for obvious reasons.

That being said I was hoping to see improvement this year opposed to last year. I felt all along even if we didn't win that we were competitive and showing improvement. We have an offense I like, but I don't like that it is a bit predictable at times, but overall I like the offense.

Our defense is a nightmare and I don't foresee any improvement from it this season. It is safe to say Gill won't be going anywhere and I will say it again, as long as our defense continues to be this bad we need a new defensive staff next year. In addition I really hope to see about 3-4 defensive lineman and 2-3 corners at least in this year's recruiting class.

I will keep supporting our team, but if we look like we stink, smell like we stink, play like we stink I have no problem with saying, we stink.

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woodscolt 2 years, 11 months ago

It would almost be hard to believe how it would be possible for a defense to be worse. georgia tech 66, osu 70. Makes those 40 pointers look like relief. I remember thinking how bad it was to have 50 plus put on the hawks last year but predicted it would be better than 70's that would come this year. If you look at the rest of the schedule, the only hope for staying under 50 would be isu. Kstate plays a slow grind it out control offense but they will put over 50 up. Texas A&M is still rebuilding but KU will be a welcome game for them and over 50. Texas is rebuilding but it will be a turkey shoot in Austin, 70's there. If Oklahoma plays their practice squad, we might hold them to 70 but look for something close to 100 unless Stubbs is going to have his guys hike the ball and play lets "all fall down".Baylor and Missou play real fast on offense and boast hot hot hot young qb's, look for 80's from those two. Jeeze, you have to re establish the default mode to "Give Gill and the Hawks credit for having the guts to even show up". We got a football team that causes a track meet. At least those guys get to wear masks. think of the predicament Gundy and all these coaches have when they play KU. They don't want to embarrass by pulling their starters, embarrass by not pulling them, and can't coach their kids to "just don't really play very hard guys. KU is going to be the butt of the country.

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Kc Ticketguy 2 years, 11 months ago

Its hilarious to say, "They have a prolific quarterback," KU offensive coordinator Chuck Long said. "The guy's going to the NFL." Ok well I'm not sure what clown conference you came from but this is the Big 12, you are going to be facing pro level talent on both sides of the ball nearly every game! Aand what about the backup QB that put up over 200 yards, is he pro talent? This defense is just a disgrace!

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Kirk 2 years, 11 months ago

This always gets me, too. "Oh no, this next conference opponent is REALLY good!"

The pretty much all are

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hawkster007 2 years, 11 months ago

Can we get everyone to pitch in a few bucks and see if we can buy this game off tv next week so KU is not exposed to the viewing public. At this point, a team as bad as KU should have to go down to Div. II football and earn its way back, I just don't know when they would earn their way back at this point. Lew Perkins overplayed his hand, when he turned the court of public opinion against Mangino and essentially fired him. Lew thought big time coaches would be clamoring to coach KU - - like Harbaugh at Stanford. Turned out, nobody wanted to coach KU after they saw the hatchet job Lew did on the best football coach KU has ever had. Why would anyone want to come to KU and be successful, only to get fired by an egotistical AD. The reason it was never publicly disclosed who KU was talking to about the coaching position is that KU couldn't even get in the door to talk to any serious candidate. That is why we got stuck with TG, and then we had to pay him Mangino's same salary to come here. Easy money, plus TG has very little incentive to perform when he is paid top coaching money from the beginning. Can I get an "Amen, brother"....

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kureader 2 years, 11 months ago

A new coach, like Gill, needs time to recruit his own players and build his own program. BUT, in the meantime, he needs to keep games close and show signs of improvement.

The problem now is that the team's defensive performance is SO awful that the best recruiters in the world won't sign the kind of players we'll need to improve.

I'm not a Gill hater, but giving Gill more time may not help.
In any case, we may be stuck with Gill, but our defensive coordnator needs to go.

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kureignman 2 years, 11 months ago

Hey Matt, I know it's off topic but there was an article in the Denver post saying Air Force was approached by the Big 12 and AF turned them down because they didn't want to have to compete for recruits against OU and Texas. Looks like the are headed to the Big East.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19073868

About the game, I'm tired of saying that I thought we'd lose but didn't expect to lose so ugly. I expected it to take some time with a new staff and said last year that TG needed 3 years before he could be evaluated. However he seems to be making it hard to give him the benefit of the doubt with these one sided affairs. I was planning on going back for the OU game next weekend. Now I may not actually go to the game because it would be a waste of money.

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namder 2 years, 11 months ago

I don't think Gill will have to worry about getting rid of any assistant coaches this year. They will all be wanting to jump ship after this year anyway. What assistant coach with any kind of pride would want to subject their career to this kind of embarrassment. If Gill thinks he can compete next year with even a few decent recruits then he is dilusional.

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Ethan Berger 2 years, 11 months ago

Sims was a 3 star im pretty sure. But point taken.

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squawkhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

I'd like to request that the LJ World enact the mercy rule and stop publishing articles about KU football.

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Robert Brock 2 years, 11 months ago

Was Keegan onto something earlier: join the Big East (after dropping football?).

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rob4lb 2 years, 11 months ago

These are some of the darkest days for KU athletics and in some ways helpless to make any changes. The football team is pathetic and probably a national joke, but the administration is hamstrung by the contract of the head coach. I think Gill and staff are destined to stay at least one more year.

We can talk about all the improvement in the offense, but it is frustrating to look over to K-State and see a very pedestrian offense but gritty defense take the team to a Top 20 ranking. Last year, K-State couldn't stop anyone (except KU), and they have made some great improvement without getting a bunch of highly regarded recruiting class. Coaching does make a difference.

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hawkster007 2 years, 11 months ago

Can someone tell me if there is any truth to the rumor that TG's talk show is cancelled this week due to the absence of highlights? Maybe they can replay a show from the Mangino era!!! TG eliminated names on back of jerseys, now the kids are very thankful for that decision.... I really don't blame the kids, I think they are doing as well as they are being coached...enough said. TG interviews are always a lot of talk and blather with no substance, I'm now beginning to understand how that translates to his on-the-field coaching style!

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squawkhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

There are lots of OSU highlights. Eight in the first quarter alone.

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juke4jay 2 years, 11 months ago

The football team is 'maybe a national joke'? Huh....are you kidding? WHY do you all think this team was picked by most sports writers to win at the most, ONE game this season? Did you think they were going to lose the other 11 games by just one point? Don't blame the kids, I think they are giving it their full effort. The coaching staff...well, er, I think its pretty obvious. But the cards were laid out before this year started, and whether we like it or not, this team over-achieved by racking up 2 wins! Its going to get bloodier as the big boys are lining up licking their chops at playing this defense. Have another beer, and enjoy it for the spectacle it has become....... After all, B-Ball season is right around the corner - yay!

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tical523 2 years, 11 months ago

Love him or hate him, just watch an interview with our head coach and you can judge his leadership qualities and coaching abilities. It is plain to see that he is not a motivator or a sharp guy. Either you have to be get your kids up to play out of their mind / ability or you have to out-coach the opponent. . . . . not happenin.

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smartjayhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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stuck88 2 years, 11 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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smartjayhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Turner Gill reminds me of Tubby Smith, only he is much more inept than Tubby.

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smartjayhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

I would say, "Let's look forward to basketball", but we are missing the Morris twins. That may not be so enjoyable either.

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Ethan Berger 2 years, 11 months ago

If we lose the rest of the games(no reason to believe other wise) then I doubt Gill last. So lets have fun and discuss possible coaching options.

Brett Vinabules- OU defensive cord, for the people who don't think Gill shows enough emotion, this guy would not struggle with that.

Kirby Smart- Alabama defensive cord, this guy can flat out coach. His defenses are always stout.

Mark Helfrich- Oregon offensive cord, I think this system would fit great for our offense. Maybe have Micheal Cummings start, seems like it could work.

Paul Chryst- Wisconsin offensive cord, has been there since 06, the best years in wisc history I think. If you haven't watched them this year, you should. That offense is really really good.

John Chavis- LSU defensive cord, LSU offense has always been average, their defense has been carrying them for years now.

Ken Sumlin- Houston Head Coach, what scares me about him, is without Keenum, this team went 5-7 in the Conf USA.

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smartjayhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

If it gets this bad next week, the defensive coordinator should simply instruct the defense to all out blitz every down. What is there to loose?

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cosmo 2 years, 11 months ago

The picture associated with the article is a perfect example of our defense: Two hand touch.

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KSseahawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Krug's the best. Captures the moment well.

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stuck88 2 years, 11 months ago

Anyone else see that Bill Self said that coach Gill was the right man to turn around this football team. Maybe he has the vision to see that GIll will get it done. I agree that the OSU loss was inexcusable and that the OU will be similar, which I can live with. I have been a Gill supporter and will continue to be a Gill supporter, but if the KSU loss is anything like the OSU loss, I will probably lose all faith in the man.

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Kirk 2 years, 11 months ago

The KSU game is very important this year in getting a strong sense of what sort of real, meaningful improvement this team is actually making (or not.)

Their talent is not superior to ours, certainly not much, but they are very smart, tough and disciplined -- ultimately because of their head coach. If they blow us out again, Gill has to go at the end of this season. I think.

As for Self, he's a team dude. A company man, a decent bloke through and through. He'd give a vote of confidence to Mickey Mouse if that's who we hired, which I think we did.....

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Dan Pawlowski 2 years, 11 months ago

Not sure how you can see improvement against an offensive juggernaut and top twenty team but I guess most of the posters here have vast coaching experience.

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Kirk 2 years, 11 months ago

Oh by the way -- don't vote for your preferred public officials anymore. Unless you've had their job experience. Better sit out the next presidential election. Because how could you be qualified to pick?

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squawkhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Maybe Bill Self can coach both the BB team and the FB team.

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Randy Bombardier 2 years, 11 months ago

I think I will be taking a blogging vacation. This really sickens me, not that I blame anyone. I have wanted to believe in HCTG but I don't see it. It is becoming more and more obvious.

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gammimc 2 years, 11 months ago

It's time to evaluate whether there is enough revenue to merit a football program. Seriously, how much longer is the KU nation going to tolerate decades of ineptness? No good coach wants to come here. The only players who will come here are either rejected by their choice school, or wanting to be a big fish in a little pond.

If football is only going to be something to do until b-ball season starts, why not forego the expense of the program, and save it to build a 50,000 seat arena to house what we are really good at

If that sounds ridiculous, fine. But if we're serious about fielding a football team, at least spend the money for a proven D-1 coach who has a previous winning record. One who can put together a staff of the finest assistants and coordinators, and can recruit some players! Then, maybe it would be worth buying a ticket.

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stubert 2 years, 11 months ago

this coaching staff is totally any negative name you want to use. take away their cell phones

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