Thursday, October 6, 2011

KU officials celebrate big day for Big 12

AD Zenger: TCU an obvious fit

Sheahon Zenger was introduced to the publica Monday, Jan. 3, 2011, as KU's next director of athletics. He took questions and discussed his philosophy during a press conference at Hadl Auditorium.

Sheahon Zenger was introduced to the publica Monday, Jan. 3, 2011, as KU's next director of athletics. He took questions and discussed his philosophy during a press conference at Hadl Auditorium.


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Intentionally quiet throughout most of the conference realignment chaos that had plagued the Big 12 conference during the past six weeks, Kansas University athletic director Sheahon Zenger was happy to speak up following the positive news that came from the league office on Thursday.

“This is a good day for the Big 12 Conference,” Zenger said. “The news of granting of rights and equal revenue sharing and league expansion bears testament to the hard work of our board of directors and the stability sub-committee within the Big 12 Conference.”

The first happy moment for the league came late Thursday morning, when the Big 12 confirmed its pursuit of Texas Christian University to be the 10th member. With Missouri in limbo, there remains some uncertainty whether TCU would be the 10th or ninth member of the league. Also unclear is where the league goes from here, with or without Missouri in tow.

“We all believe that Texas Christian University is a great addition to the Big 12,” Zenger said. “Their geographic proximity to the rest of the schools, their academic credibility and their athletic achievements make them an obvious fit.”

Zenger said the addition of TCU provided KU with extra reason to celebrate.

“The University of Kansas has a strong alumni base in the Dallas-Fort Worth area and continues to attract students from that area, as well,” he said. “For us as an institution, that’s an additional benefit of this news.”

A couple of hours after expansion news broke, the Big 12 also announced that it had unanimously agreed to a formal grant of television rights for a minimum of six years.

Both votes were unanimously approved and Missouri sat out each time.

KU chancellor Bernadette Gray-Little, who served on the league’s four-member stability committee, released a statement Thursday afternoon. In it, she, too, pointed to Thursday being a great day for the Big 12 and the Jayhawks.

“This is an outcome KU has sought throughout this process,” Gray-Little said. “And it is one that I’ve been seeking as a member of the conference’s stability working group. Stability heightens the appeal of the conference as we look at expansion.”

Sources told the Journal-World that the Big 12 continues to look at all of its options, including staying at 10 or jumping back to 12 members. One source added: “All of the obvious schools are still in the picture, but, at this time, there is no next in line.”

Those “obvious schools” include BYU, as well as Big East members Cincinnati, Louisville and West Virginia, which, because of TCU’s likely departure, are left scrambling to solidify the future of their league. Although TCU was scheduled to join the Big East in 2012, the Horned Frogs will not have to wait the 27 months required by the Big East for a team that leaves. Sources said, however, that TCU will be required to pay Big East exit fees, which some have estimated to be around $5 million.

Gray-Little said she hoped TCU would begin competing in the Big 12 next season.

Should TCU’s exit from the Big East lead to its collapse, Notre Dame, which competes in the Big East in all sports but football, likely would seek a similar arrangement in another conference. A source with ties to the Big 12 said the conference, which has courted the Irish in the past, would be interested in exploring the idea of adding Notre Dame to the Big 12.


Fred Davis 6 years, 8 months ago

It's about time the Big 12 started taking other schools... And way to go Zenger... His silence has been golden... In Zeng We Trust

poopyku 6 years, 8 months ago

Now we need to add the rest of the big east ( minus UCONN & Rutgers ) , BYU, and Memphis. If MU bolts then replace with Boise State. EAST: KU, K State, MU, Iowa State, Cincy, Louisville, West Virginia, and South Florida.

WEST: OU, OK State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor Memphis, TCU, and BYU

VOILA! The first 16 team super-conference is set.Conference stability.... DONE!

This would open up Ohio, Tennesee, and Florida for recruiting and provide a little east coast exposure we've been missing out on for years.

Dan Pawlowski 6 years, 8 months ago

Confused. If MU bolts then there can't be an MU in the West.

Dan Pawlowski 6 years, 8 months ago

Oh, so if they bolt replace with Boise State. Sorry , long day.

JHawk74 6 years, 8 months ago

Why wouldn't Memphis be in the East and K-State be in the West? K-State is farther west than Memphis

Matt Bowers 6 years, 8 months ago

There is a ton of coverage about the Jayhawks in the East. Everyone here in Carolina still talks about 2008 KU football/basketball because of the VT/UNC loss to KU. There has also been some chatter because of the loss at GT, but no need to go there!

Our brand is built on basketball, hopefully in a season or two it will also include football. Once KU won the Orange Bowl and National Championship, a ton of KU gear appeared and all of a sudden I wasn't alone!

Rock Chalk

Marc Frey 6 years, 8 months ago

Maybe a North and South Division would be a better way to set up your conference.

lee3022 6 years, 8 months ago

I think the geographical problems of spreading the league out too much will limit the schools that can be added. The revenue sports can use a chartered airplane but the non-revenue sports will suffer greatly to be gone so long from classes. Louisville and Cincinnati are possibles. Memphis does not have the football to compete in a BCS league. BYU wants to remain independent but might come. Boise does not have the basketball to compete and is still an upstart in football. Look for two or three more but not exceeding twelve. The super conferences will regret their choices.

hawk316 6 years, 8 months ago

Congratulations to both Chancellor Gray-Little and AD Zenger for a job well done. They handled this whole process with much composure, wisdom and foresight.

JJHAWK 6 years, 8 months ago

Now if Missery bolts, the big 12 doesn't lose its TV contract.

Woody Cragg 6 years, 8 months ago

Could you imagine the conf with Louisville, TCU, Notre Dame (hoops), and N-N-NO m-m-m-misssssery? I sure as hell can. What a day that would be except for envisioning the tourney in a state with no team in the conf. That's the only downside. Watch em' start copping dueces & say they'll stay now that there's a 6 yr $$$ exit fee involved with departure. Then again, they're dumb enough to do it. If they do stay, I'll enjoy the beatdowns even more than ever. Hope KSU opens up the whoopa$$ this weekend-like maybe 69-0! Ya think? LOL plus all the malice in the universe intended!

okiedave 6 years, 8 months ago

Let's make it easy for indecisive MU -- just kick them out of the Big XII.

Jeff Kilgore 6 years, 8 months ago

Seconded. I could care less about them.

Ryan Shelton 6 years, 8 months ago

As much as I enjoy the rivalry, I say boot them too. They obviously don't want to be a member of the Big XII with their actions the last two years. Who cares about exit fees. Show them the door and then watch them scramble for a conference. An independent Missouri would be poetic justice for starting this whole mess in the first place.

frich5151 6 years, 8 months ago

Kick their butts out!!! Hate em don't need em!!!

NebraskaJayhawk 6 years, 8 months ago

Seriously? You want the second longest played football game between two teams to just...go by the wayside. Traditional opponents mean everything in sports. It's a great rivalry. I for one do not want to see Mizzou leave the conference. I'm fine with them adding more schools close to Kansas's proximity, but we don't want to lose our rivals.

tis4tim 6 years, 8 months ago

Kansas-Nebraska was the third-longest uninterrupted series in all of college football and that is no longer. It's a shame, no doubt, when tradition falls by the wayside. But while I am all for preserving tradition, it appears Mizzou has no desire to do so. And were it not for their petty posturing over the past week, I'd still feel the need to err on the side of history to try to keep the series intact. At this point, however, I could care less about Mizzou and I'm glad our chancellors are truly being proactive with moving our conference forward with or without the Tigers. Frankly, I'd have no problem recruiting three more teams (since TCU appears to be a done deal) and leaving Mizzou out in the cold. They can lie in the fetid bed they've made for all I care.

Douglas Creelman 6 years, 8 months ago

I hear what you are saying about tradition. However, in this day and age of huge TV contracts traditions mean squat to Universities and conferences. I would love to see the KU-MU rivalry continue, but MU is hell bent on getting out of the B12 so they can be a mediocre team at best in the SEC because they see the SEC as more stable.

NebraskaJayhawk 6 years, 8 months ago

Understand what both of you are saying as well, and don't think I'm not thinking it. However, 10-15 years after all of this is settled, schools are going to wish they had stayed put. This whole TV money is a bunch of crap.

I think Tis4tim....that the KU-NU game was the fourth longest streak...KU has like 4 or 5 in the top ten which is crazy. I think the meeting between KU & ISU is another long one. It seriously makes no sense whatsoever for Missouri to be part of the SEC....nor KU to be in the ACC or the now demised Big East. Conferences were designed to be geographically located for multiple reasons. 20 years from now I garauntee you that they will be so again....if we even have college sports 20 years from now.

tis4tim 6 years, 8 months ago


Yeah, I think you're right. KU-Nebraska was third-longest if we're only considering Division I competition. I think Lehigh-Lafayette, or something like that, that is the longest of all time in all divisions.

Anyway, it was a pretty long damn series, whatever it was, I'll tell you that! :^)

tolawdjk 6 years, 8 months ago

Obtaining ND would have to be as the 13th team. I can't really see the scheduling working with an 11 team football schedule. I also can't see TX putting up with a member school revenue sharing and allowed to keep their own individual major TV contract.

NebraskaJayhawk 6 years, 8 months ago

True...Texas would be that little kid that just stands there with his arms folded pouting if ND would join. Besides, I think ND will join the Big Ten if it joins a conference. Could be wrong, but it's what the Big Ten wants and probably a better fit.

UT4BigXII 6 years, 8 months ago

This is about as stupid a comment as I have ever read. Texas' AD is a very good friend of Notre Dame's AD. In fact, they used to work together.

From the start, Texas has been in conversations with Notre Dame about joining. Haven't you been keeping up with the news? Or are you like those (including tolawdjk) who like to talk about something you know nothing about? It only makes you all look stupid. Even Oklahoma has acknowledged the special relationship that UT's AD has with Notre Dame.

Texas wants to play Notre Dame every year on Thanksgiving. When TCU accepted the Big 12 invite, there were rumors that TCU would take up A&M's schedule and it would play Texas every year on Thanksgiving, but Texas said no.

I find it comical that the fans and students of schools that were almost left out of a BCS conference still like to talk trash. You should take Baylor and Iowa State's lead and just keep your mouths shut.

As for Missouri, I would love to see the school get booted from the conference so that we could move on with other candidates for membership. Missouri flirted with the Big Ten last year and it was put on the clock. Even now, after the MU president indicated verbally (on numerous occasions in the past) that Missouri was committed to the Big 12, the school is flirting with the SEC. Waiting for Missouri to make a decision is only delaying the Big 12's move to add other schools.

Just for the record, I am not anti-KU. In fact, I have very good friends at work who are from Kansas and they are Jayhawk fans big-time. We have fun teasing one another from time to time.

Marcia Parsons 6 years, 8 months ago

Wouldn't ND likely continue their independence in football and just put all their other sports in a new conference?

Ryan Shelton 6 years, 8 months ago

They would have to. How could they schedule their rivalry games and still compete in a conference? Navy, USC, Stanford, Pitt. These are games they would want to schedule every year, and with an expanded Big X, there would have to be a guarantee that they play Michigan, MSU, and Purdue every year. All this is a tall order with no flexibility, and not very feasible in my opinion.

That said, I would welcome them with open arms if they came calling. Can you imagine the Jayhawks going to South Bend every other year?

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

The talk now is that Notre Dame has said that if they were to join a conference they prefer the ACC which is why the ACC is in a holding pattern on adding UCONN and Rutgers. However, apparently Deloss Dodds is trying to convince ND to move all their non-football sports to big 12 even if football stays independent because having their other sports is still a huge addition to Big 12 market especially for Basketball.

Bobo Fleming 6 years, 8 months ago

I haven't like Missouri since I found out that Q tried to kill my great grandfather. I think they should go down to the SEC home of the rebs where I am sure they will feel right at home.

Dan Pawlowski 6 years, 8 months ago

LHN has already backed off from broadcasting High School Games.

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

They won't be sharing LHN revenue because it is Tier 3 the agreements are only for tier 1&2. Keep in mind that if they had to share LHN revenue that KU would have to share Jayhawk Network revenue from basketball.

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 8 months ago

So we replace three prominent teams and a fourth soon to be leaving with a flash in the pan and everyone is excited?!?!?

A commuter schools in cow town doesn't replace Denver, Houston, Stl, and Husker Nation. Sorry!

Gary Wirsig 6 years, 8 months ago

So we replace what could have been an intelligent post with inane whining?

TwistedFish31 6 years, 8 months ago

Exactly gdkadjayhawk! apherahole is just a missery troll living in his mommy's basement with that manginohollz loser.

blackhawkjayhawk 6 years, 8 months ago

TCU a commuter school? It's superior in every way to CU, the bottom dweller and NU, the has-been and Gig 'Em the wannabee. If we could get rid of the black kitties, then we'd be rid of another problem.

Keep up the thinning of the herd. The conference gets stronger every day.

Please, please, please, please Mizzou - please go to the SEC. I'll miss KU beating you down in b-ball but will be uplifted when LSU destroys you and takes your girlfriend home for a Hurricane, some jumbo and some meaningless fun.

gojhawx 6 years, 8 months ago

What exactly is jumbo? Some large what?

LAJayhawk 6 years, 8 months ago

I think it's innuendo... (wink, wink, nudge, nudge...)

jaybate 6 years, 8 months ago

"In Fairy Tales, When You Kiss a Frog, It Turns into a Handsome Prince, But..."

~The Big 12 just kissed TCU...

~If adding TCU is a big day, then days have shrunken in the Big 12. TCU was the kind of add you make when you need some kind of positive news, while you work on some other group of schools that could actually save the conference.

~Two suggested better headlines:

"Horned Frogs Hop into B12-4+1"

"School that Fired Moe Iba, Billy Tubbs, and Neil Dougherty Enters B12 Coached by Tom Pender's Protege"

~While I've advocated bringing TCU in over the years to keep a Dallas presence should UT jump, it doesn't come close to solving the current problem of NU, CU, TAM and perhaps MU exiting. TCU is just a cupcake in football, and Creighton would have been a much better add for basketball.

~Is this really what CBernie and ShayZeng have been keeping secret about? Is this add what they couldn't talk about? Have they really been working away madly behind the scenes in order to bring in....drum roll please....TCU?

~Bottom line: this does not remedy the instability problem even a little. It just helps the conference members limp through a season, or two, while more negotiate jumps.

~The Big 12 just kissed TCU, but TCU is still a horned frog.

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 8 months ago

-big 12 excited to have worts

-big 12 so horney for members, even toads starting to look good

-big 12 must have licked toads before adding tcu

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 8 months ago

-big 12 adds horney chriatians, don't worry parents, it's not notre dame


Ryan Shelton 6 years, 8 months ago

It must be divine intervention that keeps you from spelling correctly.

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

Folks I'm pretty sure the reason they are saying its a Big day for the Big 12 is largely due to the agreement of equal revenue sharing as well as texas making several concessions it wasn't making earlier such as no high school content on LHN also the 6 year rights agreement is a BIG BIG step for the big 12 regardless of how you spin it because it wasn't there before. Also adding another team regardless shows some sense of moving forward. And those of you that gripe about it being TCU remember that the Big 12 is trying to move and move quickly to basically make mizzou look like what they are the a** holes who started this and TCU because it is private with its own Board of Trustees can make decisions faster than state institutions such as louisville and west va. or a school that is directly tied with a huge church. Yes TCU has religious affiliations but their ties are a lot looser than BYU in terms of decision making and ability to make them quick. Because of this TCU is a smart add because it gives the BIG 12 the quick move they need.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

TCU kicks a** in football. 'Nuff said. Great addition (academics included).

LAJayhawk 6 years, 8 months ago

Due respect, Jay, TCU had won 25 straight regular season games in football (an FBS best) before dropping the opener against Baylor this year. If that's a "cupcake," then I'm craving some butter cream icing!

Marcia Parsons 6 years, 8 months ago

You say TCU is a cupcake in football, but aren't they the current reigning champion of the Rose Bowl?

lee3022 6 years, 8 months ago

That would be correct but the Rose Bowl in its first year ever without the PAC team is an asterisk.

rockchalkjjjhawk 6 years, 8 months ago

Sorry, can't agree that the TCU is a good move. I have little doubt that in time this addition will be proven to be one of the worst decisions of any BCS type conference of any time. I, for one, think that once again the Big12 had low expectations and succumbed to leftovers and southern pressures. The Big12 would have been better off, even with the possible exit of Missouri, just staying at 8 until a bona fide big conference type university could be added. The additions the ACC, B1G, and SEC are making make the Big12's decisions look silly at best.

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

Staying at 8 would be an awful idea because as we have seen stability comes in numbers and this idea of bona fide big conference schools is asinine. with the exception of the big east left overs the big conference schools in the SEC, ACC, Big 10 & Pac 12 aren't going anywhere which, means that the Big 12 has to look elsewhere especially in the non BCS conferences and TCU is a more prime candidate than say southern mississippi, new mexico or some other non bcs school.

DevilHawk 6 years, 8 months ago

Adding TCU was probably in exchange for UT making concessions related to the LHN.

Perhaps the major problem is that it continues the move to super conferences, because the Big East will be at six football schools and will need to find two additional schools rather than only one. Remember: TCU had been headed to the Big East.

Marcia Parsons 6 years, 8 months ago

I don't think that's likely. Wasn't the initial concern about TCU was that Texas didn't want the recruiting competition? Everyone EXCEPT the southern schools was interested in TCU. And Texas actually gave up very little of their network--just high school coverage.

Sam Constance 6 years, 8 months ago

"I have little doubt that in time this addition will be proven to be one of the worst decisions of any BCS type conference of any time."

Hyperbole much?

Also, please define "bona fide big conference university type".

Sorry, but if TCU is just the first in a line of additions it's a good move. The only way it's a bad move (and still nothing close to the ridiculous "worst decisions EVER" that you labeled it) is if TCU is the only addition and the Big 12 stays pat at 10 (or 9).

UT4BigXII 6 years, 8 months ago

Big 12 television partners will disagree with you. In the eyes of ESPN/ABC and Fox, TCU to the Big 12 was a smart move. TV contract money stays the same by adding TCU. TCU has a winning tradition and it is in the Big 12 footprint (which makes traveling a hell of a lot easier for all Big 12 schools). It is fortunate that TCU is in the metroplex area (Dallas/Ft. Worth).

jaybate 6 years, 8 months ago

Regarding the Pic of ShayZeng at top of story...

Perhaps the caption should read: KU AD Sheahon Zenger politely smiles after swallowing some less than stellar cooking by the KU Chancellor.

100 6 years, 8 months ago

Dear T. Boone Pickens,

In the quest to put a permanent stamp of power back on the Big 12, as once again, the most powerful conference in the nation....

You are being challenged to purchase the Arkansas Razorbacks from the SEC. I'm thinking $25 million.

At any rate, no matter the cost it will be worth it. You will be seen as the visionary who beat UT to the punch. And ironically UT will owe one to you down the road for bringing back one of their old rivals "for free"...

(of course you don't need to share what the investment will get you in return over the years, which will not only be much more than cost, but more importantly the feeling that you did something very, very, very right).

Arkansas is purchasable. They just didn't know which shopper they're dealing with yet. In fact they had no idea someone from the big 12 would just "buy them"....

But it's about to happen thanks to either you, or UT...

Personally I hope it's you.

We are the most powerful conference if we all start checking out what's inside of each other's wallets....

Now we just need to use our wallets & friendships wisely; it's time to raid the SEC boys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rock Chalk T. Boone.

texashawk10 6 years, 8 months ago

Jerry Jones is actually who you should be talking to about getting Arkansas back in the Big 12. He has been in favor of that for years, but he's in the minority on those at Arkansas who want to get back in a conference with Texas.

100 6 years, 8 months ago

Good point TXhawk,

Well then. It's a competition of bank accounts between Jerry Jones & T. Boone to see whose first to buy Arkansas back into the SW conference.

Or has the Big 12 learned enough at this point, that it's teamwork between the alliance that always prevails...

You have me thinking Texashawk...

T. Boone, Jerry Jones & UT working together to basically rip away an old SWC team from the SEC...

THAT would put any doubts about the strength of the Big 12 to rest...

Throughout all of this, the SEC hasn't been threatened once... But they sure do like talking to contracted teams from a certain conference to the west & north... Not once. Not twice. Not three times. Not four times. Not five times. But six different teams from the big 12 they've courted when the lights are out & nobody's looking. 6 times.

This is a chess match & to play a proper game of chess with money, properties need to be threatened & occasdonally taken.

It's time to take back Arkansas. It's time for the SEC to sweat at least once. And once is more than enough for me. Then we can get back to the business of making our conference, once again the biggest & the best in the nation.

Paging Jerry Jones & Mr. Pickens...

Rock Chalk Big 12.

lee3022 6 years, 8 months ago

Bring the Big X? football championship to Jones' Cowboys Stadium every year and this just might get done. Jerry is passionate for his Razorbacks.

jaybate 6 years, 8 months ago

All complaining aside, Chancellor Bernadette Grey Little may be the only hope for the Big 12.

The other leaders clearly lacked the right stuff.

CBernie has handled some tough situations pretty well in Larryland.

She's got Bob "Suck in Development Bones' Hemenway as her salt and pepper in the back ground.

And the Big 12 needed to finally admit that its butt was in a sling and it had to crawl before it could begin to walk in order to escape its present experience of taking a realignment 2x4 sideways.

CBernie is a tough, steely, feisty deeply connected woman in what remains a good old boy's world--chancelloring and development sucking.

She has kept KU on the grow in the middle of a worse depression that the Great Depression.

She appears wired all the way to Obama, given the presence of a Kansan in his cabinet.

And Obama is going to be (s)elected again; that's a foregone conclusion, so CBernie has that trump to play, too

If CBernie, with backing like that, and likely with corresponding channels to the hog trough in DC, can't dangle carrots and take the Texans to the woodshed and make them say, "Yes, Mistress Bernie, discipline us with a cat-o-nine tails and make us get better as conference members," then no one can.

But it is going to be a long slow process. This train has wrecked. This is a rebuilding situation, not a reloading one.

CBernie has to be looking at it like a coach coming into a wrecked basketball program. Its going to take several years to put this conference back together...if they don't lose any more schools.

The good news for CBernie is this: the Big 12 coalition of states is vital as a voting block to a number of big time players. If she can ever get the Texans, Okies and Kansans on the same page about conference sports, she can expect enormous underlying forces to reinforce what she is trying to do.

Bully for CBernie.

Go, CBernie, go!

KGphoto 6 years, 8 months ago

"Yes, Mistress Bernie, discipline us with a cat-o-nine tails and make us get better as conference members,"

LMFAO! I actually strained my back on that one.

lee3022 6 years, 8 months ago

Perhaps the worst depression, but about three weeks before that happens. When the Euro crashes we will have our depression. Otherwise it will take another year of 1.4 trillion in deficit spending to get us there.

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 8 months ago

Why do I have the feeling Tcu is on the phone with the sec asking if they want a piece of the Dallas market?

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

TCU is the one popping bottles. Bet on that.

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 8 months ago

Remember this for a few days ago We have lost 3 million fans (4 if Mizzou goes) and replacing them with 400,000. Not I'm not a math major but this can't be good.

100 6 years, 8 months ago

Any chance T. Booone could purchase Nebraska back from the Big 10?

What's it gonna cost..... 50 million?

Maracas 6 years, 8 months ago

How is adding a small private school in Texas from the Mountain West to the Big 12 a big day? No, they weren't part of the Big East yet. Another Texas school. Just what we didn't need. We got rid of one, and we add another? Sad.

hailtoku 6 years, 8 months ago

Not really.

TCU was headed to the Big East..another conference on the verge of demise. By TCU coming to the Big 12 instead, it shows the Big 12 is here to stay quite honestly.

Now if we get Louisville...its as you were.

Imagine if the rolls were reveresed and we offfered TCU an invite and they bolted for the Big East.. crushing...embarrassing...all of the above.

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

Here's the thing, the Big 12 needs to get back to just that 12 which, if we lose mizzou we would need four if we keep them 3 so the only bcs conference options if that's your argument are the big east leftovers. Remember BYU also played in the Mountain West ( a conference you might have gotten BCS big if it wasn't for all the teams leaving). The one problem with the big east schools is the 27 month waiting game that they would have to sit out because remember all the Big east schools can block their move not just the football ones. Now if we got BYU and big east schools end of story, however thats and if at some point conferences like big 12 need to look at non bcs schools in order to remain viable because the "big" time schools are running out.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Because not everything in this world revolves around basketball. That's why. Wake up and smell the roses. TCU = football-minded addition .. and happens to be respectable academically, good geographic fit, and a darn good addition I believe. Now I'm hoping BYU is next in line.. perhaps along with another strong football school (West Virginia?)

Randy Bombardier 6 years, 8 months ago

Some of you are scoffing at the headline and snickering about TCU while totally missing the huge deal that the granting of rights is. I'd swear, there are times when I feel like KU fans are like piranha, just waiting for the water to get bloodied.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

So true. TCU is a great addition. Football is the reason we're all in this mess and the conference is doing the right thing by adding schools that improve our competitiveness in the sport. West Virginia wouldn't be so bad. Would be great for hoops of course in addition to football ;) As a huge KU basketball fan I also follow college football and I secretly would enjoy adding Boise St to the lineup. TCU is a good start anyhow.. Come on BYU!!! Come on down!

NebraskaJayhawk 6 years, 8 months ago

No offense....but did you even read Inteldesign's post?

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Nope! I just saw TCU and snickering and KU piranhas and I went wild XD

bradh 6 years, 8 months ago

Why are we talking about going to 10 or 12 teams? Everyone talks about the conferences going to 16, let's be the first and make it hard for others to poach. There are 6 football teams left in the Big East, go ahead and pick them up. ND may have to join a conference at that point.

What I've thought the Big 12 should do is use the one card they have - third tier rights. Talk to the big boys who could support their own tv network and invite them to the conference. Invite Alabama and LSU, invite Ohio State and Michigan, invite UCLA and USC. If they could each pick up an extra $300 million like Texas, I'd think they'd at least listen. You'd have to eat some tv rights for a few years, but after that, think what kind of tv revenue that conference would generate, just in time for the next tv contract.

MU = the small UT of the plains.

lee3022 6 years, 8 months ago

A super conference is absolute crap to play in. The schedule is always going to deprive rivalries and it is much harder to win league championships. Just by adding TCU. Kansas football recruiting is much harder. I do know of the four pod approach with rivalries within the pods. But the schedule will easily favor some schools and penalize others. There is never the feeling of complete competition. KU does not need to belong to a super. The PAC is already backing away and the SEC is not in any hurry to add #14. The ACC, likewise, is not jet jumping to 16 and the Big 100 has enough at 12.

Joel Hood 6 years, 8 months ago

What??? You have a problem with a school where the co-eds look like Larry The Cable Guy?

Jeff Kilgore 6 years, 8 months ago

TCU is a great add. UT has enough seats to cover the entire conference, if you're all worried about MU. Good riddance. Let's add, if we can, BYU, Louisville, and Houston. I'm all right with these schools.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Houston I think is out. Another Texas school that doesn't even come close to the resume' of TCU is out you'd have to think. BYU I'm all for. I'd sure take West Virginia over Louisville! I wouldn't mind Air Force for some prestige or Boise St for another football power. Boise is not some flash in the pan - look at their football record over the last decade. But if football isn't the only thing I can see why they'd be left behind.. :/

Phoggin_Loud 6 years, 8 months ago

I believe that the reason that Mizzou is so ready to leave the Big XII is because of KU. Every time they turn around, KU hoops is winning the Big XII, going to Final Fours, & winning NC's. Then, just when they think that they are going to their first BCS football game, BAM!!! KU gets invited to (and wins) the Orange Bowl.
I think their alumni are sooooo tired of KU "one-upping" them that they are ready to go anywhere that KU isn't. First it was the Big 10, now it's the SEC. If this falls through, they will try to jump to the PAC. Not to mention that they believe they are better than they actually are. KU is in their head, and they want nothing else to do with them.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Wishful thinking I'm afraid with regard to KU's involvement in those decisions :)

Marvin Koelsch 6 years, 8 months ago

If you look at K.U. history, you will find that K.U. Football used to play T.C.U. in the past. We won some and lost some if I remember correctly. It will be a lot less miles of travel for both athletes and fans. If Mizzoo wants to leave, let them. Another story on this site a few days ago said that a lot of universities are inquiring about joining the Big 12. Quit complaining about the past and look at how good the future may be.

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

I just hope if we go to 12 teams we play a cross divison rivalry every year. Then they could match up KU vs TCU which is big for both schools as if I remember correctly KU's largest alumni base outside of Kansas is in Dallas-Fort Worth so the games in dallas would attract good numbers of fans from both sides.

poopyku 6 years, 8 months ago

I am going to keep pounding this idea home until SHEZENG brings it up to the rest of the big XII AD'S! Add Cincy, West Virginia, Louisville, South Florida, Memphis, BYU, and Boise State( if Missouri tucks tail ). East Division would be Ku, K-State, MU(or Boise), ISU, Cincy, W. Virg, Louisville, and S. Florida. West Division: OU, OSU, UT, T. Tech, Baylor, TCU, BYU, and Memphis. You could also use a four division format grouping OU, OSU, Memphis, BYU- UT, T. Tech, TCU, Baylor- KU, KSU, MU/ BSU, ISU- Cincy, W. Virg, Louisville, S. Florida.

TwistedFish31 6 years, 8 months ago

The more I read these threads, the more I realize that there are several people that have no lives at all. apherahole, trolls should go to your own schools boards...or maybe get a job and climb out of your parents basements.

bad_dog 6 years, 8 months ago

As long as "I" is in the title, how could someone like you not be pleased?

johnnyphoton 6 years, 8 months ago

Why don't ya'll show a little respect? Git on yer knees n thank them texans fur them grantin' rights! You 2, apher.

LVDeserthawk 6 years, 8 months ago

As a Jayhawk fan for the last 40 years, with every single one of those spent hating Missouri, I can't imagine the league with Kansas vs. Missouri. That is a rivalry that transcends what most people see as a rivalry. The rivalries in the Pac-12 by comparison, are comical. They drive off together and go back to their freaking beach houses and drink Pinot Noir.

In the end I hope this BS that MU is pulling is more about leverage and negotiating for more equal rights and putting Texas in their place. If not, then MU needs to go. I'm speaking from the stands and I don't have the facts that maybe the big shots have, but it seems like MU has had this ego mentality that they are too good for the conference. The comments about joining the Big 10, even though the Big 10 openly was not interested in them. Now MU officials making statements about the "SEC being all that is left." Personally, if I were the SEC, I would be saying "go to hell we don't need or want you." MU seems to have some serious ego issues at the top.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Most of the "kids" that post here don't understand all that ;P

ejlumus 6 years, 8 months ago

At the very least mizzery needs to be censored by the big 12.

Date assigned either you are in or you are out.

My hope is they are out.

HARVEYHAWK 6 years, 8 months ago


jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Now that TCU is in.. go for 12 teams and football first by adding BYU and Boise State (if MU leaves then add either WV, another Big East school or perhaps Air Force):

For Kansas State president Kirk Schulz, inviting TCU to join the Big 12 represented a major step for the conference.

“This puts us in a great position for the future,” Schulz said.

But two questions remain.

  1. Will Missouri stay in the Big 12?
  2. Will the Big 12 continue expanding?

Here was Schulz’s answer to the first question:

“We continue to be encouraging Missouri that we want them to continue being a member of the Big 12,” Schulz said. “I think the rights package, the equal revenue sharing and the addition of TCU are all strong, positive steps that I hope will make a big difference in Missouri’s decision, which I ultimately believe will be to stay in the Big 12.”

The second question is more complicated. Schulz said some within the Big 12 favor remaining a 10-team conference, while others want to continue expanding to 12 or even 14 teams.

“Should we stay at 10, go to 12 or go to 14?” Schulz said. “That will continue to be a discussion the subcommittee has. I don’t think there has been a decision made. Some institutions are comfortable staying where we are. There will be some that think we should be bigger. We’ll continue to watch the college landscape and be in a position to respond quickly if need be.”

Read more:

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

“When we’ve talked to our media consultants, they’ve really stressed the number of TV sets isn’t as critical as adding quality schools that people might want to watch on television,” Schulz said. “That’s what we want to get. We want to make sure that we add schools that our fan base and our alumni and our presidents and athletic directors will say, ‘Hey, this is a great team to have in our conference.’ That will continue to be the key in looking for future additions to the Big 12.”

Boise St haters? I think, assuming BYU comes with, that's a great idea to add them. When it comes to football they have been elite.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Then again academics are a huge concern (not even in Top 200), if that's really as important as is being said, and that small 32k (soon will be 53k) stadium and small market along with all other sports being non-factors then I could see the balk. How important is football in this? That's the question. BYU hopefully gets an invite and accepts then I'd be hoping for West Virginia first out of all the Big East options. That would put us at 12 and if MU left then add Louisville or Air Force. My two cents. But it looks like we are waiting for MU to make their decision before moving forward. If MU leaves I'd say the decision would be to add 3 teams to get to 12. BYU should be a priority then add two from the likes of Boise St, Air Force, West Virginia, Louisville.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Explain your position on WVU if you don't mind.. is it just due to academics? I agree with Air Force and would put up with Louisville as long as the conference adds another football power like BYU. Tulane? Rice? No one would care to watch those teams on TV.. what a laughable suggestion. Are you trying to add solid teams or just add whomever to reach a certain number? F Tulane. F Rice man..

lee3022 6 years, 8 months ago

West Virginia and Boise State add no additional markets. BYU adds a small market in SLC but the added complication of no games on Sunday is not a fit with the basketball schedule and the league post-season tournament.

Cincinnati does add a market and Louisville a smaller one. Air Force is at least geographical and replaces Colorado adding the Denver Market and a national Air Force following.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

I am now thinking Air Force would have to be out when the schools other sports have had trouble even in the Mountain West and why they are considering a football only invite to the Big East while the other sports would potentially move to a smaller conference such as the Missouri Valley Conference. And with Boise St the issue there is academics on top of non-football sports being an issue. Seems BYU would have to be the most logical option at this point. Louisville and West Virginia might be the direction to go. Dang I still would love to see Boise St compete with the rest of the Big 12 on the football field though... would make great travel partner with BYU! (end wishful thinking..)

p.s. Cincy is such a yawner...

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

I finally figured out why Tulane would even be MENTIONED. Here it is "Tulane, because of its location in a major U.S. city (New Orleans) and strong academic profile." Pffft! Get out.. Big 12 needs to position itself accordingly when football is the driving factor behind all this. TCU seemed like a good fit all around. BYU hopefully is on the horizon. Perhaps the Big 12 isn't sold on the fact that BYU is expecting for us to come calling when really it should be the other way around? Just a guess. But look here... forget Tulane.

FLJHK 6 years, 8 months ago

Tulane is not a first choice, but should certainly be considered if the conference were to expand to 12 or more. Conferences are more than just athletic leagues; academics would seem to be a more important part of a university's mission. All about football? Do you think Duke and Virginia are bad for the ACC, Vanderbilt for the SEC or Northwestern for the Big 10? Tulane is not the academic giant of the mentioned schools (although Rice is) but it is very solid. Being in a contiguous state and a great city helps as well. Tulane as a 13th or 14th member would be an inspired choice.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Air Force over either I say. There's something to be said for overall perception of stability. Conferences like the SEC and B1G don't care about the Rices and the Tulanes. I believe it when the commish said there has been "no shortage of interest" from schools. Thanks but no thanks we need some big time programs.

FLJHK 6 years, 8 months ago

I agree about Air Force. I was the first to advocate for them back when Colorado and Nebraske were defecting. Also think the BYU would be a solid addition. I also retain my naive hope that the Tier 3 revenue model could attract Notre Dame, and I like Louisville mainly for their hoops pedigree.

But conferences also flourish wih some diversity and academic credentials of the type that Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Rice and to a slightly lesser extent Tulane can provide. If the Big 12 were to expand beyond 12, these schools warrant serious consideration.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Looks as though the Big 12 is prepared to stand at 10 teams (which reportedly is what Texas prefers..) should Missouri stay. If Missouri leaves I'd have to think BYU would be next on the list... no rush on the Big East schools should the goal be to get to 12 due to the 27 month wait that would be required. Louisville and West Virginia would be the most likely options right? I could care less about Cincy really.

LogicMan 6 years, 8 months ago

There might not be a 27 month wait if the Big East's FB folds. If we want to go to 14 or 16, we should have friendly negotiations with them to wrap things up nicely. E.g., UConn and Rutgers to the ACC, and Louisville, Cincinnati, and WVU to the Big 12+4 along with BYU. ND too, if they will join in FB as well -- no special deals for them, but like all others, they can have their Tier 3 rights.

It's possible more teams could compete starting next year, but it's very possible that they will come when they can over the next couple of years. We'll need to be flexible on scheduling.

Robert Brock 6 years, 8 months ago

Man, it is a long way down from TAMU to TCU.

FLJHK 6 years, 8 months ago

It's a much smaller school and lacks the research dollars of A&M. But it's a good school and lacks the weirdness of A&M. I think A&M is a good fit for the Yahoo conference and I won't miss them at all.

KUMED71 6 years, 8 months ago

As the Big 12 goes about rebuilding itself a HUGE part of the success of the league will be having teams that want to be members of the conference. Mizzou has repeatedly expressed a desire to be elsewhere. People argue for keeping them in the league to maintain the ? great rivilary betweeen KU and MU. But at what cost? IMO the Big 12 remains unstable with any team that continually is looking to leave. Those teams need to go now so those of us left can go about our business with a greater degree of assurance. If I were a university looking at joining another conference I would not want the instability of a team like Mizzou around, They are a liability to stablity and should go now. If KU and MU wish to continue the competition so be it, but don't allow Mizzou to repeat this process over again. It's bad for the conference and all it's members.

JHawk74 6 years, 8 months ago

I propose a trade between SEC and B12. We trade Missouri for Arkansas!

Chris1955 6 years, 8 months ago

I wish I could be as excited about this as many of you seem to be. This, in my mind, no where near makes up for conference member losses like Colorado, Nebraska, TAMU, and now potentially, Missouri. Wow! TCU, the Baylor sequel! For me, this is like finding yellow fluid in my cornflakes.

I sincerely hope that KU can take advantage of this 6 year window to improve the football program, tighten our admissions criteria, retain our AAU status, and find a suitable replacement for Bill Self after he leaves. I still maintain futile hopes that we can somehow end up in the B1G TEN. This dog's breakfast of potential replacement schools is revolting. If there are going to be (4) 16 school super conferences, the Big 12 will not be one of them.

milwaukeeJAYHAWK 6 years, 8 months ago

I'm conflicted about TCU.

It's not a "huge" get, and doesn't have what TAMU, NU or CU had in facilities, alumni, money, etc.

But what other options do we have? If we go for BYU, L'Ville, WVU or other schools, I can see us just being the last pig at the troff, getting what leftovers we can.

It's better than folding as a conference, so whatever. KU will be fine no matter who joins so I'm pretty content.

TCU might be really great for the conference, I dunno. We'll just hafta wait and see.

Brian Skelly 6 years, 8 months ago

I agree that TCU doesnt seem like an earth mover at first glance. But their move to the Big 12 could easily be an earth mover in the realm of all the moving pieces with conference realignment.

With TCU NOT joining the Big East, the remaining football members are going to have some hard choices to make in due order. If im correct -- Cincy, Louisville, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida is all thats left there. That isnt enough for a conference, much less a BCS conference.

My guess is this pushes UConn to the brink and they make more serious movement towards the ACC -- which they've already been quite public about. My guess is their recent silence has as much to do with the Big East as it does the ACC not wanting to look like a poacher. The talk of UConn, and possibility of Rutgers has to be back in play. At that point I think we have to look at the other 4 with at least more than passing interest. I've lobbied for us to go to 16, but even if we just took 2 of them -- to get to 12 (or 3 if Mizzou leaves), we're at 12 and fairly firm with that.

I agree with folks who think TCU is a step down from what we've been --- Id agree wholeheartedly. But whats done is done, and what now is whats next. I've mentioned going East makes more sense in both travel and time zone logistics. Is any of this optimal? No. But again, whats done is done. We need to make the best out of the situation... and Notre Dame is to pie in the sky for me to buy. Im sure its worth talking.

We take 2 (or 3) of the remaining Big East teams and go from there.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

I'd still hope for BYU first and then sort what you will

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

They may not come for football but there has been some chatter about them coming in all other sports if Big East folds because they have some significant ties to Big 12 conference schools such as Texas.

hawk4evr2 6 years, 8 months ago

TCU may not be on par with NU or A&M but they are right there with CU with their facilities. CU is larger but TCU fan support is better. I think it is a good add. It's interesting that a few weeks ago everyone was writing the Big XII obit and now it looks like it will be the Big East that doesn't survive. Chalk one up for the good guys and the midwest.

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 8 months ago

You know who would make great additions to the conference, add millions if tv sets, give us additional revenue through a championship game, and make since travel wise?

Nebraska Colorado Texas A&M

lama 6 years, 8 months ago

TCU is fine, but I'd rather have BYU. New market, huge fan base etc.

blindrabbit 6 years, 8 months ago

Please give up on West Virginia; nobody wants them and for good reasons. The Big East took them reluctantly years ago, the ACC and SEC don't want them now. Geographically , either of those conferences make more sense than the Big12. WVU has a very poor academic rating, the school and fandom are not at all like the mix of Big12 schools, this would be especially true if Mizzou was to bolt. A visit to campus and attendance at a WVU game would convince you of these points; also do you want to deal with Bob Huggins again.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Fair enough. I'm hoping for BYU and Boise St or Air Force over any of the Big East options..

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Maybe we could take a Rice or Tulane to make up for a Boise St football grab! :D BYU too please . Get er done

Tracy L. Cauley 6 years, 8 months ago

I am as much a MU hater as anyone on this site but to say the conference would be better without them is crazy also to say you don't mind giving up the rivalry and playing them every year twice sometimes three times in Basketball is crazy as well. On the subject of bringing other teams in. Who's to say that with the right coach and the extra dollars that these programs will have by joining the Big twelve they won't become better. Basketball is a coach driven sport because one or two really good recruits make you competitive and relevent. Get off your high horse people and stop talking other folks down just to make yourselves feel good. Let the winning do the talking. RCJHGKU

Ron Franklin 6 years, 8 months ago

Whoops...I must have missed something. I didn't even realize ShZenger was still the AD. After all his silence, I was most certain Head Coach Self had presumed that role as well. He seems to be doing a pretty good job.

I am not a fan of silent leaders.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

You should see about a guy by the name of Todd Haley. That's a leader for you. Wins and losses aside - he is very loud and a leader. Which is all that's important.

BigAl 6 years, 8 months ago

Hmmmm... Maybe you should contact the leaders at Syracuse and Pitt. After all their silence, it looks like they will come out of this just fine. After the silence of BGL and SZ, it appears Kansas will come out of this pretty much where we wanted to be all along. Too bad they didn't run all of this past you before decisions were made. By the way, Self made his comment after the dust was starting to settle. It appears to me that our "leaders" had a united front and things are looking pretty good in the best interests of Kansas.

I think the leadership at KU handled this just fine.

Phoghorn 6 years, 8 months ago

Let me give you a choice:

  1. Dr. Zenger conducts his business in a quiet, professional manner.

  2. Dr. Zenger starts spewing bridge-burners that cost us a chance at being a leader in the Big 12 or going to the BI6/PacPack.

Hint...Mizzou chose # 2.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

I love how every news article refers to ESPN's Tulane rumor with either (lol) or (?/?) or (COME ON) hahaha. Tulane? Get real. Ain't gonna happen.

"Speaking to Travis Haney of the Daily Oklahoman, Oklahoma president David Boren said that the conference “will be fine either way” whatever decision Mizzou makes and that the conference’s expansion committee, the paper writes, could be ready to offer and accept invitations in “a week to 10 days.”

“We will move swiftly,” the president told the Oklahoman. “It won’t take long.”

As for potential candidates for expansion, Boren stated that there are “three or four good choices” the Big 12 is considering. While Boren did not delve into specific names, some of the schools mentioned in connection with Big 12 expansion includes BYU, Louisville, TCU, SMU and West Virginia among others."

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

Laugh all you want about Tulane but I would rather have them over SMU as they would bring more to the table in terms of market, status and money.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

SMU doesn't have a chance either I'd guess (hope?) at this point I hope we are down to Boren's "three or four" of BYU/Boise St/Louisville/Air Force and getting to 12.

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

I still hate boise because their academics and other sports are awful. I think academics should play a definitive role because if you look at strong Academic leagues like PAC 12 and Big 10 they are really stable and don't have the grass is greener mentality. Which for that reason is why I would rather have tulane besides the obvious big market addition (although, I know they are a longshot and their inclusion comes down to BYU saying no). Yes they are good at football but lets be honest will their dominance continue if they play a schedule with TCU, Texas, Oklahoma and BYU on it every year or heck even Oklahoma st.

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

I'm talking about Boise with the last statement. Sorry typed it before adding tulane comment.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Yes I know what you meant. Like I said Boise St would only make sense assuming BYU is part of the deal. Travel could be cited as one of the reasons behind the obvious football and therefore future lucrative media contract ramifications that could result from an elite football program forming what could be one of the strongest football conferences in the country .. that's what Boise St does. Second only to the SEC. We'd be the best of "everybody else" at least eh?

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Eyes would be glued to TV sets to watch I'm sure ;)

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

Not as many. See Tulane has a market size in NOLA metro that is roughly 1.5 million whereas Boise is in Idaho with its 1.8 million residents. I'm not saying Boise games wouldn't be entertaining but if the Big 12 were to add another non-AQ school Tulane is more of a splash than Boise when you take football out of the equation and look at all other tangible assets.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Yeah but that's just it. Football is probably THE biggest part of this whole equation my friend. Boise St, it was quoted in a story recently, would probably get a very high return on that potential media market due to the fan base and success. Like I said there aren't many national brands out there to add to this conference like Boise St. You either love them or you hate them. But yes football and possible logistical reasons if you have BYU in the mix are the only reasons Boise St would be in the mix. But its an important enough reason.

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

Actually, much of the talk coming down the line is that football is not the entire story, Academics and Market play a bigger role. If football was the whole story why is A&M going to SEC they haven't been goo in years and mizzou the talk among SEC schools is they like their market and academic status. Also if football was where it was at then Syracuse wouldn't be going to the ACC. They haven't been any better at football than KU over the past 10 years. So I think that Academics and market play a huge role and are part of the equation which is why Boise makes little sense. BYU does, Louisville, etc.

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

Also keep in mind that yes Tulane sucks now but their Alumni have very very deep pocket books (So much more so than Boise) and would likely pour money into the program if they were in a BCS conference (although once again I think tulane is a long shot but a better choice than boise).

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

I wouldn't be opposed if the idea where to expand beyond 12. You'd like every school to be a top market, AAU, strong athletics, graduation rate, location etc. And every school would have a certain benefit to the group as a whole. Football and TV sets are what a strong competitive football conference gets you. Money counts for something. Boise St and BYU as a combo addition isn't a ridiculous proposition. Boise St is a growing and fairly new school. Who's to say they don't have a bright future?

Ludwig Supraphonic 6 years, 8 months ago

It seems like I can remember Tulane being relevant in football but I'm awful old and can't be sure. I hear they open up the New Orleans market to the Big12; but wouldn't Dillard or Southern be cheaper and have about the same fanbase? If it's about academics; how about Cecil's Business College? Asheville would be a great road trip.

firebird27 6 years, 8 months ago

The comments over TCU have focused on stability and football quality, but the conversation needs to focus on economics. When the Big 12 was initially formed, U of Houston, TCU, SMU, and Rice were not invited for economic reasons. Baylor was invited because there is no pro team in Waco to compete for the collegiate dollar. But Waco's market has not proven to be sufficient. TCU's recent football success partially came about because it did not have to play Texas, A&M, and Tech. TCU's football success was built initially by playing teams weaker than it faced in the Southwest Conference. Now, TCU must face real powerhouse football programs on a regular basis. The outcome will likely be for TCU to be less successful and generate fewer football dollars than it does currently. It is hard to compete with the Dallas Cowboys for football revenue, and TCU's fan base is not large since the university's enrollment is small. Thus, we cannot anticipate TCU being any stronger economically than Baylor in the long run.

The loss of Nebraska and Texas A&M were huge. You may not like those universities, but you cannot ignore the football income they generate. TCU and many of the recommended additions to our conference on this blog do not have the economic heft to strengthen the current Big 12.

Another reason for realignment beyond the desire for TV money is Title IX, which provides equality for women in collegiate athletics. I am very glad we have Title IX, but I doubt if there is one woman's team in our conference that generates more revenue than costs. Many men's teams are in the financial red as well, including basketball. Football is the economic generator that must bear the financial burden of other sports.

Personally, I wish we could return to the Big 8 days. That conference was truly a midwest league, but economically that solution makes no sense economically given the TV revenues and the need for Title IX.

142466 6 years, 8 months ago

Loss of Mizzou would be huge, too. I agree with you regarding TCU. TCU would be OK as #14. Instead, the conference added them as #10(9). It signals that the league is still perceived as being very unstable. Can't attract anybody better. Does nothing to improve the league's weak image. #10 should have been a lot better (BYU fits the bill). If the league can't attract BYU or someone comparable next, then the B12 will go to 10 and stop. That means that if Mizzou stays, then no further additions. If Mizzou leaves, only one more: Rice, Tulane, SMU, or Houston. Weak additions. We're downgrading.

Sad. When the B12 was formed we thought that the league would be the Big 8, plus the four best schools from the Southwestern Conference. Instead, what we're reconstructing now is the old Southwest Conference (which was always weak) and half the old Big 8 conference (which was strong).

Andy Tweedy 6 years, 8 months ago

The old SWC weak? Arkansas? Texas? Texas A&M? SMU? Houston? Are you forgetting the Pony Express? The run-n-shoot of David Klingler? And I don't think I need to go into the other schools and the success they had! The SWC was corrupt, but it was never weak! It was a strong football league, and with the exception of Arkansas, the Big XII got some pretty damn good programs from it.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Neinas said that he doesn't like the idea of far-flung leagues, and BYU and Louisville have campuses much closer to the current Big 12 footprint than Boise.

But if the Big 12 wants to bring in a member that will create a buzz nationally and spark interest in the conference beyond its borders, it should invite the Broncos.

Or it can invite a basketball school (Louisville) in the 50th ranked TV market.

Phoggin_Loud 6 years, 8 months ago

Since Missouri declined to vote on adding TCU & granting of rights and is actively seeking a new conference, WHY are they still allowed to be involved in the BIg XII meetings?? Doesn't this potentially hurt the Big XII if they have privileged conference info regarding expansion??

They should not be allowed to be anywhere near the Big XII meetings until they sign the granting of rights agreement.

ltownatrain 6 years, 8 months ago

Well I don't know what the Big 12 agreements state, but even though misery didn't vote they may now be held hostage by the unanimous decision of the other Big 12 schools as they are currently a member of the Big 12 and thus all the rules for other schools would apply to them as well until. Basically, I wonder if because they hadn't announced they are leaving before the decision if the Big 12 can now say you didn't vote it's unanimous your following the 6 year grant of rights agreement. Matt can you or any KUSports person clarify if this is the case or what condition the Big 12 can hold misery to should they leave.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Boise St is a national football brand. They are not the top choice but if you can bring along BYU as well it would make sense travel wise. It really packs a BCS punch doesn't it? Boise is the flashy alternative choice here. Top it off with Air Force (Colorado) and Louisville even if MU stays to put you at 14 then I say that's pretty sweet and makes sense on multiple levels. I liked this quote from the article for those that arent gonna read: "There are other schools that are in major markets, but don't deliver their markets in any shape or form," Benson said. "But how many television sets does Boise State turn on? It's probably greater than other programs from automatic qualifying conferences that are in major markets." Interesting point.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Either one of the two.. I have my sources!! ;) I kid

a) 12 teams: MU stays and we add BYU and Boise St to get to 12 b) 12 teams: MU leaves and we replace with Louisville or Air Force

Steve Gantz 6 years, 8 months ago

Add Christians(TCU)=Good Lose evil (misery) = Even better Spiritually the Big 12 could become a whole lot better now.

Tony Bandle 6 years, 8 months ago

SEC: Ring, ring ,ring...hello? Missouri: SEC, it's Missouri..we'd love to join your conference. SEC: Missouri, let's discuss this first. Missouri; Nothing to discuss... we are set on you. SEC: Well, great...we'll get together and..... Missouri:: Just a second, I've got a call on the other line... hello? The Big Ten??!!...buzzzzzzzz. SEC: anybody there? Missouri; Click!!!!!

Michael Luby 6 years, 8 months ago

Come on guys, Im not a MU Tiger lover either, but seriously. Think about the longest historical rival in the nation between KU and MU. Do you really want to let that go? I sure dont! Its one of the most, if not THE most exciting rivalry in college hoops. All conference realignment specifics and conjecture aside, it would be sad to see that end. It wouldnt be the same, winning the conference without beating the tar out of the Tigers in their home stadium and putting the 'Antlers' to shame. This rivalry goes back to 1907. Thats over 100 years people! Added on to that is the civil war/border wars that occurred 60 years or so before that. Its just too big of a rivalry to let go of that easily. Not to mention the revenue for both schools when we play eachother.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Agree man. MU is a hated rival. Everyone saying good riddance sorta speaks to that. I think some people would realize it would kinda suck but it's stylish to bash em at the moment. AAU schools leaving sucks.. that's another thing.

142466 6 years, 8 months ago

Right. Mizzou is a hated rival because they are close geographically, we have played each other forever, the games have Yankee vs Rebel connotations, both schools are AAU, and because most games between the two are very competitive and affect conference standings. What more could ask for.

Mizzou is much more desirable than any available replacement. They're much more important to KU than NU or CU.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

Oklahoma OSU Texas BYU TCU Boise St Missouri .. Air Force (3-1) Texas Tech (4-0)

8 or 9 strong football schools. Half of those could be considered "elite". Basketball is always going to be Kansas' for the taking it seems but with MU in the equation it adds to the basketball but I guess if they left maybe Louisville comes aboard to fill that loss.

For a conference that appeared to be on the brink it would seem they might end up as a stronger football conference. Turner Gill some day would like to field a decent team too here in a year or so hey?

justinryman 6 years, 8 months ago

Conference divisions:

The Big Division-OU, Ok st, KU, K st, and Isu

Texas Division-Tx, TT, Baylor, TCU and MU

The Texas division gets MU, cause just like Texas, MU thinks they're the biggest thing there is.

And yes I used the Big Division off of the play of the old Big8.

jchief40 6 years, 8 months ago

"The Big 12's 27-3 mark (.900) in now-completed nonconference play is the best among all conferences since 1996, topping the SEC's mark of 30-4 in 1997.

Kansas' 239 rushing yards against Texas Tech last week were its most since the Jayhawks racked up 280 against Kansas State in 2008.

Kansas scored 26 touchdowns in 2010. This season, it has 20 through four games."

Tony Bandle 6 years, 8 months ago

Too bad potatoes don't watch football. If they did, Boise State would be a no brainer.

Per the 2009 census, there are 1.5 million people in the entire state of Idaho. Since there is nothing else going on besides Boise State, you can assume they pretty much have the whole state......but is it enough?

Their Smurt Turf, however, has me constantly adjusting the color tint on my screen!!

One condition for joining the Big 12 is get rid of that eyesore of a field!!!

Phoggin_Loud 6 years, 8 months ago

Agreed!! Lose the marketing gimmick...and prove, once and for all, that the grass can be greener in the Big XII.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 8 months ago

It's unfortunate because they are a very good football team. I have been watching them ever since that 07 team. If you could get them the recruiting of the big conf, watch out. Unfortunately, they in Idaho.

FLJHK 6 years, 8 months ago

Even with the loss of Nebraska and A&M, the Big 12 remains the second best football conference in the country. Targeting a school (Boise St.) ONLY because they happen to have a good football team is beyond ridiculous. If good football equates to conference stability, we should be the second most stable conference, but clearly we are not.

As the Big 12 looks to rebrand itself, it shouldn't look through the narrow lens of football prowess. It should seek stable schools, academically solid schools,geographically comptible schools and ones that will be desirable conference members long-term. TCU was not the best first team to add, but it's not a totally bad one either.

BYU and AFA may be the best among those remaining, although there are no perfect fits. A good case can be made for Louisville. But Tulane and Rice are the true hidden diamonds. No they don't bring an immediate enhancement to the conference's athletic profile, but with the resources available to them in a major conference, that can change quickly. Long-term they would be outstanding additions that would elevate the overall stature of the conference immensely.

BigMitchin_ 6 years, 8 months ago

Posted this on yesterdays main story but it was late in the evening... lets see what you guys think.

This is what the Big XII needs to think about.

Big XII takes TCU - happening now

Big XII aggressively goes after Louisville and West Virginia for 11th and 12th members

As that happens, Uconn and Rutgers will be really pushing to get into the ACC

Big East is gone... Big XII now has leverage and ability to go after Notre Dame. I say this because now what the Big XII can do is say OK, we have 12 football teams and we are satisfied with that. Why don't we go after Notre Dame and allow them to keep football independent but bring all other sports, then we can also add BYU and allow them to stay independent in football and bring all other sports.

All of the sudden we have the ability to give certain teams what they want and need in order to really align themselves with a conference as well as having a solid set of schools. There are 12 football schools and 14 schools in everything else.

Academics will improve with ND, BYU, football will stay strong, we look much more attractive in basketball, and it puts the Big XII on the map as the best conference to be in as well a powerhouse basketball conference.

On the other hand Missouri could leave... Then add Cincinatti as well. Yes it's a hit in academics, football, and a couple other areas. However, we gain a new market, another good basketball team, and another BigE team that will make the old BigE teams happy to still be together.

Just a thought that could be thrown around.

LogicMan 6 years, 8 months ago

No exceptions for ND, or anyone else. Making exceptions is what got us into this mess. So they join us in FB too, or not at all. But they, like all others, get to keep their Tier 3 money.

So yes add Louisville, WVU, and BYU right away. One more if MU leaves. Then privately dangle the last spot before ND, while publicly negotiating with someone else like the AFA. Just like the Big 10 did to MU, but behind the scenes got NU. All's fair in love and war.

Andy Tweedy 6 years, 8 months ago

I have read in multiple places that the Big East's demise was because the football and non-football schools were never on the same page. I have thought doing something like you suggest made some sense, but after reading, in multiple outlets, about the problems it caused the Big East, I think it's not wise.

southwindjay 6 years, 8 months ago

All I know is I am sick of hearing about MU. These guys are a joke and the sooner they are gone the better. One big question is though, why on earth would the sec even want them? I can't think of anything that would be attractive from the sec advantage to have MU join the league.

I like Boise but their success in football is almost entirely due to the coach. And really they bring nothing else to the table that I see. If the football coach leaves and the program falls you are really left with nothing.

I say scoop up the big east teams we can and maybe air force.

Bville Hawk 6 years, 8 months ago

It's not so much about quantity as quality. Like it or not MU is much more a quality conference member than most if not all of the other names being bandied about.

Hank Cross 6 years, 8 months ago

If MU leaves, take LVille, Cincy, and WVa. This ends the BE. Then add ND, Marquette, DePaul and St. Louis as BB/olympic members. I like adding the Bilikins b/c they might be able to pinch a recruit or two off of MU, thus assuring Mizery of mediocrity in both FB and BB in their new home.

Vernon Riggs 6 years, 8 months ago

Mizzou ran into a road block: 'Bama, Tenessee and LSU. They don't want another West team. And usually what 'Bama and LSU wants in the SEC, they get. Look for SEC to grab Va Tech to grow to 14. The ACC will replace with UConn or Rutgers to stay at 14. Mizzou will stay in the Big12 and TCU makes 10. Big12 will add four from the following teams: Rutger or UConn (whichever is available), West Virginia, BYU, Boise State, Louisville, South Florida or Cincy. Shift your Super Conference paradigm. 14 is the new 16!

Hank Cross 6 years, 8 months ago

Yeah, it's hard to believe that the SEC is going to override Bama for MU's sake.

Martin Shupert 6 years, 8 months ago

Notre Dame has no interest in joining the Big 12 in football.... nun! However, basketball is another story. They never seemed to fit in the Big East. If they did come into the conference in basketball, it would help them to include a few non conference football games between themselves and the Big 12. Texas-ND is rich in tradition since the late 60s when ND first started playing bowl games. They want to tap into Texas in recruiting so that it makes sense for them to play the Texas and Oklahoma schools. I look forward to seeing a few Big 12 teams come out of the tunnel at ND and play in the house that Rock built. Playing ND in basketball every year would be interesting for all Big 12 teams. KU would enjoy hosting ND. You can't say that about MIZerys. I actually hope that rivalry goes down the toilet. It was mean spirited and ugly almost all of the time. Especially if they leave, who needs them? Go already. I would prefer seeing the rest of the Big 12 inviting them to leave, but making them pay us is a better idea.

LogicMan 6 years, 8 months ago

No ND FB, no ND in the Big 12. No more special treatment for anyone.

BigAl 6 years, 8 months ago

I agree with LogicMan. No special treatment for anyone. Period.

jgkojak 6 years, 8 months ago


Go to 14 by adding: BYU, Louisville and Cinci and WVU and Air Force (I'm leaving MU out of this scenerio- good riddance)

Then add Notre Dame and DePaul (Chicago) for non-football- getting you to 16 in bball and 14 in football - travel wise, ND would have easy travel to 6 schools (MU, ISU, DePaul, Lville and Cinci).

Not sure about divisions, probably need different divisions for fball and bball.

Basketball/other sports: EAST: KU, KSU, ISU, DePaul, ND, Louisville, Cinci, WVU WEST: Texas, Oklahoma, OSU, Baylor, TTU, TCU, BYU, Air Force

Football: EAST: same, add TCU (for balance)

Kyle Sybesma 6 years, 8 months ago

The Big East is falling apart and there is a HUGE opportunity to jump on Notre Dame and get football. The ACC and Big 12 are the only conferences that allow ND to bring their NBC contract. They need a place for their non football programs and the other conferences hold the leverage. Force Notre Dame to decide to bring all sports or none. I can't imagine them taking the non football programs to the A10 or Conference USA. Notre Dame is vulnerable, the Big 12 and ACC need to recognize that.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 8 months ago

I don't know how credible it is, but their are rumors that the SEC is targeting not only Missouri, but WVU and Florida St as well to go to 16. Apparently there is some consternation from Alabama regarding the division split that would interrupt their rivalry with Tennessee. So, scenarios with WVU in them might not be available.

According to this rumor, the ACC will replace FSU with USF and then invite UConn and Rutgers. If this is true, you have to look at scenarios that involve both Missouri and WVU gone. That would leave (1 to get to 10, 3 to 12, 5 to 14, 7 to 16:

Notre Dame (unless they replace Rutgers in the ACC) Louisville Cincinnati BYU Tulane Air Force Boise St Memphis New Mexico UNLV

Leaving anyone out?

trey 6 years, 8 months ago

Couple thoughts...

For the Big12 to survive, have to kill the Big East (no way 6 conferences make it).

TCU good "first" add because it hurts Big East right away (they don't have to wait 27 months to play in Big12).

Big12 won't take W Vga unless and until MU goes to the SEC; would prefer that SEC take W Vga.

Next adds in order.... BYU, Louisville, W. Vga (if MU commits to SEC).

Big12 gets back to 12, with divisions...

South: Tx, TTech, Baylor, TCU, Louisville, W Vga North: OU, OSU, KU, KSU, ISU, BYU

If MU stays, they go to North with Louisville. OU and OSU go South. W Vga out

DCLawHawk 6 years, 8 months ago

I don't think you're leaving anyone out, and I like your thinking. If possible (a big if), Notre Dame is the best addition. You could even add Notre Dame in football, but have them play fewer league games (to preserve their traditional rivalries with Army/Navy/USC/Purdue/Michigan) and not be part of the conference schedule per se. It's worth getting creative to reel in Notre Dame.

BYU, Louisville, and Cincinnati strike me as the next best additions. Schools like Rice, Tulane, Boise St., and Memphis are just too small and too poor. I'd rather have Air Force (or try to poach Vanderbilt) than make offers to any of those. BYU, Louisville, and Cinci all add reasonably sized markets, reasonably good athletic programs (both in terms of current prowess and historical significance), and decent academics. Louisville and Cinci would join as natural rivals.

Proposed conference (assuming Mizzou leaves and Notre Dame does not join): North: BYU, Cinci, I St., KU, K St, Lville [could add Notre Dame] South: Baylor, OU, Ok St, TCU, TX, TX Tech [could add Mizzou]

Personally, I hope that Mizzou stays and the Big 12 adds schools that help keep the geographic center of the conference close to Kansas City. If MU leaves and/or the conference adds schools that move the conference footprint further south, Kansas City will lose the Big 12 basketball tournament. That's something that KU fans would live to regret.

lee3022 6 years, 8 months ago

After being down by four touchdowns the Big XII -4 has finally scored, albeit a field goal. The league has been rocked hard yet retains a top brand in basketball in KU and two top brands in football in UT and OU (disregarding today's game.) Only the SEC can match that. This league can rebuild and may be better off at 10 teams than 12.

I don't believe the super conferences will be very happy with the results of their union. The law of diminishing returns must apply somewhere in the 12-16 range. I am happy to keep the league at 10 (nine presents other problems) if the 10 are committed to each other.

Eric Dawson 6 years, 8 months ago

FYI especially for those interested in adding the Air Force Academy:

Sunday Denver Post Article

According to AFA AD Hans Mueh, the AFA turned away interest from the Big 12 because it wouldn't be fair to the cadets and they couldn't recruit against Texas and OU in FB. AFA is also working with Navy to try to convince Army to join the BEast, but Army is concerned its cadets would get pounded by the BEast FB schools.

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