Kentucky defeats Kansas, 75-65

  • 8 p.m., Nov. 15, 2011
  • Madison Square Garden, New York, NY

Wednesday, November 16, 2011

Loud and clear: UK pulls away, makes statement

Kentucky guard Marquis Teague celebrates a dunk in front of Kansas players Tyshawn Taylor (10) Conner Teahan (2) and teammate Terrence Jones during the second half on Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2011 at Madison Square Garden in New York.

Kentucky guard Marquis Teague celebrates a dunk in front of Kansas players Tyshawn Taylor (10) Conner Teahan (2) and teammate Terrence Jones during the second half on Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2011 at Madison Square Garden in New York.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 75-65 loss to Kentucky on Nov. 15, 2011.

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— The winningest college basketball program of all time looked quite a bit better than No. 2 ... at least on Tuesday night.

Kentucky’s roster full of future NBA millionaires used a 15-2 second-half run (that stretched to 24-7) to bust a halftime tie en route to a 75-65 victory over Kansas University in the nightcap of a Champions Classic doubleheader in Madison Square Garden.

The Wildcats led by as many as 17 points — 54-37 with 10 minutes left — before KU staged a late rally.

“They are so talented one through seven. I really think they’ll be amazing,” KU senior point guard Tyshawn Taylor said.

Playing close to his Hoboken, N.J., home, he scored a game-high 22 points off miserable 3-of-13 shooting. The 6-foot-3 senior, who had five of his shots blocked, did get fouled enough to account for 15 of 17 free-throw shooting.

Backcourt partner Elijah Johnson went 3-of-11 on a night the Jayhawks hit 33.9 percent of their shots to the Wildcats’ 51 percent.

“They are so tall, and they get out and go,” Taylor said. “We competed. We played well at times. We just didn’t take care of the ball (14 turnovers to UK’s 19). It sucks to lose, but it’s a learning experience. It’s not like our season is over.

“I feel like I just lost a championship, but really we’re just two games into the season. We’ll learn from this. Kentucky is young, but we are inexperienced, too.”

KU coach Bill Self thought his No. 12-rated Jayhawks (1-1) were in good position to spring an upset with the score knotted at 28 at halftime.

“I thought we’d win the game at halftime. Our players thought we’d win the game,” Self said, “then they punched us in the mouth. A tie game goes to nine. Playing from behind is not something you want to do against a team like that.”

UK used an 11-0 run to bust a 30-30 tie and grab a 41-30 advantage. The run expanded to 15-2 and 45-32. After the run reached 24-7, the game for all intents was over.

Guard Doron Lamb had 12 of his 17 points in the second half, while guard Marquis Teague had 11 the second 20 minutes. Kentucky hit six of nine threes the second half.

Forward Terrence Jones, Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd Gilchrist had 15, 14 and 12 points respectively.

“I’m not discouraged at all,” Self said. “We put ourselves in position to have a lead at halftime. We didn’t get it (and), we didn’t finish. …

“We tried hard, but we didn’t compete. We didn’t have focus, weren’t disciplined, got flustered, went and did our own thing.”

Of Taylor, Self said, “I thought Tyshawn competed hard. He was a competitive joker out there today. Our offense was so poor, we told ’em to spread it and drive it every time. It’s why he got to the free-throw line so much.”

Of junior Thomas Robinson, who had 12 rebounds and 11 points, Self said: “I didn’t think he handled it (pressure) well at all. It also was the first time he was the hunted instead of the hunter. He relied on doing things himself.”

Robinson said: “I didn’t listen to coach. I didn’t listen to the game plan. I didn’t get in the flow of the offense like I am supposed to. Kentucky has a lot of talent. They’re going to be a good team. It was our first time facing something like that. We will learn from it.”

KU will meet Georgetown at 11 p.m. Central time Monday in Maui.

In the crowd

Former KU players Mario Chalmers, Julian Wright, Cole Aldrich, Russell Robinson, Ryan Robertson and Kevin Pritchard attended, as did comedic actors Paul Rudd (wearing a KU hat) and Jason Sudeikis (sporting a “Rock Chalk Jayhawk” sweatshirt). Former KU AD Lew Perkins and current Chancellor Bernadette Gray-Little also were in the Garden, as well as recruit Isaiah Lewis, a junior point guard from Christ the King High. KU has offered Lewis a scholarship. Director Spike Lee and coach Doc Rivers also attended.

This, that

KU junior newcomer Kevin Young played just two minutes. He’s not injured. It was coach’s decision. ... Junior Travis Releford had just four points with five turnovers in 28 minutes. ... Jeff Withey had seven points and six boards. Self said he was impressed with Withey’s game as well as the game of Justin Wesley (five rebounds, five points).


Ryan Mullen 10 years, 2 months ago

UK has some major issues as well. For one they cannot score in the paint unless it is in transition. They are going to live and die by the 3 all year, mark these words. In the first half they couldn't score from the 3 and the game was tied. Second half they started making shot and they pulled away. They will score alot in transition because of there quickness and will score alot from the 3 because of the sharp shooters. They have a skinny kid in Davis and Jones wants to play the perimeter. They will live and die by the 3. I don't see this team going very far in March. Sorry Cats I guess you will have to reload again when your entire roster is turned over. And I mean entire.

yates33333 10 years, 2 months ago

This is all? Did you see the game? We are waiting.

FLACAT 10 years, 2 months ago

Cats are young and it was their first outing against a quality team. Both teams will improve and go deep in March. Have to disagree with your last three sentences. The Cats won last night with a mixture of returnees and talented freshmen.

Rae Bricil 10 years, 2 months ago

"All it takes is one game where they aren't hitting shots and their season will end early."

That can be said about any team being that it takes making shots to win the game. Look at VCU from last year.

UKSkywalker 10 years, 2 months ago

good Pts to ponder... but wasn't the Jayhawk roster completely "turned over" this season...Morris Twins( gone) Josh Selby( did he know what class he was in?) gone....

NebraskaJayhawk 10 years, 2 months ago

I too will have to disagree. This is a very good team that is very young. By the end of the year, Kentucky might be the best team in college basketball. I also think they can pound it inside if they want with Davis and he will only mature as the year goes on. However, I think they like playing outside because they have the luxury of great ball movement and several excellent shooters. I'm going to pick this team to win the national championship. Sorry, I don't like Kentucky, but I think they have a great shot.

Not sure about Kansas. They weren't as tough physically as I thought they might be. Not good.

Brianna Zaleski 10 years, 2 months ago

"pound it inside w/ Davis"? Have you seen him? He doesn't exactly fit the bruiser mold. He is a string bean. I would love to have this kid on our team, but he is not going to be doing any pounding on the inside this year. And next year he will be in a pro uni, so you argument falls flat. Cal coached teams have always been guard heavy w/ forwards who can drift out and shoot. The stellar point guards (Evans, Rose, Wall etc...) break down the first layer of the defense and then pop it out to shooters on the perimeter. Cal has no use for traditional forwards or centers nor does he know how to use them.

NebraskaJayhawk 10 years, 2 months ago

That's your opinion. Watch the game again. Davis scored inside when given the opportunity. Just because it isn't Calapari's style doesn't mean Davis could play inside. The rest of what you said is exactly what I just posted just different wording.

Good post though.

Wheatgerm 10 years, 2 months ago

Half of UK's minutes went to guys just out of high school. So yes, they obviously have some things to work on. And that's the point. They have an entire season to work on them.

Let's not take one aspect of this game (how they shot the 3) (in the first half) (of the 2nd game of the year) and project the implications through the remainder of the season and tournament, or as logicians might say, ad absurdum.

The projection didn't even hold up for the game, as UK shot 7-15 (46.7%) from behind the arc. Both Lamb and Miller shot almost 50% from 3 last year. Wiltjer, the big white kid who came in at the end, won the 3-pt shooting contest at this year's McDonald's All-America game. So no, that's not going to be the major issue for them. The issue I saw last night was how UK is going to handle a team with size who plays hard on-ball defense. KU's impressive defensive effort prevented any rhythm or flow in the first half.

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 2 months ago

Yea your right there complete lack of (no) bench will be there demise.

Jim Chastain 10 years, 2 months ago

I can see the truth in this but we lost that game primarily because of our poor guard play -- offensively and defensively. Guards drive the transition game and we got smoked. I think our guards were exposed last night. Taylor just never gets better.

divingos 10 years, 2 months ago

Are you serious??? You got spanked. They are freshman. Of course they are going to make mistakes early - they are freshman!!! You guys on the other hand have Junior, Junior, Junior, Junior, Senior starting. What's your excuse???

CrissaxJayhawk16 10 years, 2 months ago

I wouldn't exactly call it a 'spanking' when Kentucky only won by ten. If you compare how much talent Kentucky has on their roster compared to our's we really didn't lose by as much as we should have. The only difference was the second half, if they wouldn't have come out and played the way they did we would have won. Things will be different a few months down the road. Yeah Kentucky may have a majority of freshmen on their roster and it is spelled freshmen not "freshman" as you spelled it but we only returned one started from last year. So we might as well have a bunch of freshmen out their ourselves. Granted the majority of or guys have more experience but not much, Thomas only averaged about eleven minutes last year, Elijiah averaged even less than that as did Withey. It will take some time for us to get better but we will. I have a lot of faith in our team. Rock Chalk!

Matt Bowers 10 years, 2 months ago

I thought that even though it was sloppy at times, the fact that KU with its depth and talent could keep it within 10 is a great sign. I saw some good minutes from guys who most thought would be of no use this season as well. A lot on TRob, TT, and EJ having the mental capacity to start and finish a game and they didn't have it against me that's the difference. Still think it was a great game.

jaymullen you couldn't be more right.

Rock Chalk

ampthatman 10 years, 2 months ago

I agree. Last night's performance felt like a worst-case scenario: got into foul trouble, shot poorly, played subpar defense, turned the ball over a lot and did it all against the #2 team in the nation. And we lost by 10 points. I slept fine last night.

Matt Bowers 10 years, 2 months ago

One more thing. How can you be making a statement when you are supposed to win? They didn't kill us by a long shot. I don't agree with the title, even though UK said they wanted to make a statement...dumb.

Rock Chalk

Mark Lindrud 10 years, 2 months ago

Kentucky is good, but we got exposed. TRob needs to get better at beating double teams. Withey is good defensively, but is still slow and can't dribble. TT is still erratic and makes foolish decisions and of course still can't shoot. EJ is about the same, but maybe better suited for PG. Releford has improved, which is nice. Teehan is basically Morningstar all over again.Wesley is tough and will be a nice player off the bench. Tharpe is very athletic and needs to settle down, but that will come with experience since he is a freshman.

This will be an up and down year for us and I am glad we will have some tough teams to play so we can figure out how to play as a team quickly and to be able to play a whole game with the same intensity because we definitely lost it in the second half. There were some good things to like, but we still have a long ways to go.

TheGiftedOne 10 years, 2 months ago

I pretty much disagree with every single thing you said in this post. Tyshawn forced a few shots but atleast he was getting shots up... he had zero turnovers btw against intense Kentucky pressure. Travis had 4 TO's! And only four points and three rebounds in 26 minutes... that production will just not cut it, it never will. Tyshawn would not have been forced to force up so many shots and drives if he was getting ANY help! Talk about bad guard play. Conner made a couple three's (One assisted by Tyshawn) but other than that we got nothing from the 2-3 spots. Naadir was a trainwreck and killed our momentum in the first half. Every single time a guard touched the ball besides Tyshawn it was either a turnover, a bad shot, or a "deer in the headlights" one dribble pick-up until the babysitter (Tyshawn) could come help. Our guards were exposed tonight without a doubt... going to need to lock it up if we're going to beat anyone good in Maui.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 2 months ago

Nice analysis. I thought TT was the only one with the speed to hang with UK. I also thought that TRob failed to kick out of triple teams (and yes they were triple teams), which led to frustration and a couple of fouls. TReleford I thought was the worse player on the court for us, but it shows how weak we are in that position. I thought Withey was the only one that frustrated the heighth and reach of UK.

TheGiftedOne 10 years, 2 months ago

Young had one fewer rebound in 24 less minutes. Releford can fill up the stat sheet against FHSU but then chokes in one of the biggest games of the season? I hate to be critical of the kid... but he is following in the footsteps of some great ones. #WishWeStillHadX

NebraskaJayhawk 10 years, 2 months ago

What...? None of our point guards looked good when we were supposed to be running the offense. TT looked like excrement. The only time he looked good was when Self had him going to the hole one on one. If that is our offense this year, we will not have a good year. Sorry to disagree, but that's just my opinion.

TheGiftedOne 10 years, 2 months ago

No man. Tyshawn was the only player not turning the ball over. Every other guard could not be trusted with the ball for more than a few dribbles. Ball handling needs to improve.

NebraskaJayhawk 10 years, 2 months ago

You're right, he didn't turn the ball over and will give him credit for that. However, I did not see him create for his teamates which is what a point guard is supposed to do. We will be in much better hands once Nadiir finds his niche next season and possibly towards the end of this season.

David Hodges 10 years, 2 months ago

TROB is supposed to be a rebounding machine right? If that is the case then every time Taylor puts up a shot he is creating offense. In basketball sometimes a missed shot still turns out to be a good possession. Example... Taylor drives and put up a shot. If he makes 50% and then Morris twins or TRob put back half of those... then hes creating offense (his job). Meaning 75% of Taylor's offensive possessions end in 2 or more points. And just because Taylor was the one to get his hand hurt doesn't mean he started the fight with the football team... anyone else see the van of players involved? What has Taylor really done to warrant so much KU hatred? Posted on Twitter? Oh No... what teenager does that? Beasley anyone?

Joe Joseph 10 years, 2 months ago

How many 7-footers do you expect to be good at dribbling?

doctorWho 10 years, 2 months ago

Agreed. Dirk Nowitzki is the exception, not the rule.

JHawk06 10 years, 2 months ago


I actually thought Withey looked pretty good (compared to past years) and will really be needed on the defensive end.

Scott Oswalt 10 years, 2 months ago

Well, I would say the 18 year old, Anthony Davis looked pretty good at dribbling last night.

Wheatgerm 10 years, 2 months ago

Tyshawn made a living at the line (15 of 17). That's nearly 1/4 of KU's total point production! You gotta give him props for fighting that hard. It's the most efficient place on the floor from which to score, and he took advantage. I give him an A for that.

Steve Gantz 10 years, 2 months ago

I wish Teehen was as good as Morningstar. From what I saw, he's exactly what I remember from a few years back, a novelty act off the bench who basically doesn't have any game but being a spot up deep shooter. Any pressure and he's not athletic enough.

yates33333 10 years, 2 months ago

Why should a center be a good dribbler? The kid played a pretty good game, beyond many of his critics expectations. Admit it!

I hope Teahan is another Morningstar. He is much better than I thought. He needs to have plays to get him open so he can shoot the three.

Madison Square Garden is one helluva place for a bunch of former reserves and new players to meet the first really good opponent. Maui isn't much better because of the attention placed on it by the sports media and because of this year's field.

Despite the urge to downgrade Kentucky, because of some of their fans, they are a very, very good team. Admit that too!

Unfortunately, our backbone, TT, TRob, and EJ, didn't play up to their usual ability. This is an aberration, I hope.

Wheatgerm 10 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, I wish I could apologize for some of our fans. I guess I would ask KU fans not to judge us by our Least Common Denominators. I'm looking in your direction, UKALLDay. I think it's a law of thermodynamics that the value of the LCD is inversely proportional to its volume.

KansasComet 10 years, 2 months ago

I love this year's KU Team...and I will tell you why. There is absolutely zero hiding on the court this year. If you are on the court, you have to play, or you will be exposed. So many times in recent years, we had 3-4 great players on the court scoring all the points and making the majority of the plays, while others only went through the motions and made the occasional open bucket or offensive rebound and put back. There is plenty of talent on this year's KU Team, it just needs to be harvested and developed. I am not the least bit down on this team. If we had won, then maybe we have the "Big Head" right now like UK. I thought the team as a whole was tight. Thomas Robinson, looked limited and overwhelmed by the moment. Elijah Johnson, did not look for his shot, and seemed nervous. Jeff Withey, played well for the most part, but should look for his shot more. Tyshawn Taylor, did not really attack until the second half, when the game was out of reach. We should have had them in foul trouble in the first half. Releford could not finish at the rim. He could not make a layup and looked extremely uptight. Tharpe, checked into the game and tried to get into the flow, he definitely belongs out there, however, he jacked a three early in a possession and got yanked. Conner Teahan, spotted up and drained two 3 pointers in the first half, and was not given the opportunity to show if he was hot or not? He got nervous in the 2nd half, and didn't look the same as he did in the 1st half. Wesley, played pretty well for the most part. Young was not really given a chance, but he definitely belongs on the court, he has a lot of hustle to him.

That being said, every player that played last night, deserved to be on the floor. It is going to take this team time to gel. I think we are a Twenty-win team. I am still excited about this year. We got Georgetown next, if we can get past them, we should play UCLA, and then hopefully another test against Duke. We will be fine, we always are. Hopefully, this makes everyone appreciate winning. I still remember the early eighties, and that was not a fun period.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 2 months ago

UCLA isn't going to beat Chaminade...they are 0-2 and haven't played well at all.

Robert Brock 10 years, 2 months ago

UCLA is an incredible mental trainwreck. Bring on Chaminade!

addlime 10 years, 2 months ago

I agree. UCLA stinks and so does the seeding in Maui.

MGJayhawk 10 years, 2 months ago

Agreed KSComet. Good stuff. I too think we will only become better from games like this regardless of W or L.

loyal2thaphog 10 years, 2 months ago

I'm with you. This looked like a team that lost 4 of its 5 starters and is still searching for its' identity. We have talent, our players just need to grow into it their new roles... As far as my critique goes, Withey is going to have to get a lot better. When he got pump faked by some guard right under the rim and was called for a foul, I about lost it. I liked what I saw out of KY/Wesley. Going forward, Is KY athletic enough to play the 3?

Brianna Zaleski 10 years, 2 months ago

I was impressed w/ the individual players on UK (especially Davis), but not impressed at all w/ UK as a team. The inmates run the asylum at that place and its embarassing to watch. How can Cal allow them to play as they want and act like that? Take control of your team. It is your team isn't it? Its no wonder kids are lining up in droves to go there. There is no discipline. Why would a recruit want to go to KU and be rode hard for 3-4 years when he can go to UK and play a glorified version of AAU? Some of those kids are absolute punks. Teague and Jones belong in prison. Those P'sOS better hope the lockout doesn't go more than one year or else they will be joining some of there family members in the clink. But there is no denying their ability. I was cringing sometimes at how overmatched we were from a talent perspective.

KansasComet 10 years, 2 months ago

That was not very nice. We can lose with class, just like we win with class. There is no need for all of the name calling. I don't care for the way some of the players on their team carry themselves on the court. The family and prison statements are not cool. We are Kansas. We are better than that.

UKSkywalker 10 years, 2 months ago

Thank-U for ur statement,, even I got a lil carried away trolling on here... U and I would both recognize UK and KU represent the 2 most prestigous college basketball programs in the country.. and I personally like Bill Self... We both r Blue Blood teams...

diegohawk 10 years, 2 months ago

Work with a Kentucky grad. He'll be riding me a little today.... to be expected as I would have done the same if I had the chance. Kentucky could be scary by years end but it will be largely dependent on the development of Teague and Jones and Davis staying in the paint. Kansas competed well but I thought we were overmatched from a talent perspective and the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half killed us as Lamb knocked in 3 after 3 that went unanswered. Kansas will likely get better as well assuming TRob learns to adjust to double teams and EJ and Releford get some confidence to attack as they are both capable. Congrats on the win. Would like another shot at you later in the year though.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 2 months ago

they reminded me a lot of the Morris Twins! Don't be a sore loser Zig.

UKSkywalker 10 years, 2 months ago

and like, Robinson wasn't a Punk/Thug also right? yes he was....Do i hear a pity party here Zig,,, u sound awful jealous here.. its called Elite Talent like u guyz have had at Kansas recently.. the cringing part? yes, i was cringing too back in 07 when u hawks took us apart in the Ncaa's, so i do know that crappy feeling.... just remember #Don't be a hypocrit fool

Brianna Zaleski 10 years, 2 months ago

No pity party here Luke. You have a much better compiliation of players than we do. And had you been hitting your shots in the first half, you would have beaten us by 20..... However, your kids have no class whatsoever. How many times were Jones and Teague going to flex after a bucket? Was Teague aware that he turned the ball over like 7 times the first half? But then he makes a couple of buckets and starts acting like a complete ass. Do you like seeing that as a true UK fan? I don't like when our guys do it either, but when we so stuff like that, we find ourselves sitting next to coach. And please explain how Robinson was acting like a punk? UK has talented players, no question. But they act like a bunch of thugs out there and are allowed to by their coach. I mean even Dickie V and Schulman made repeated remarks about how they were acting so it is not just me. Agree to disagree, but I'll take team oriented and integrity any day over classless talent.
Use the force dork

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 2 months ago

Dude..your team won. You've got a team that has no limit to what they can accomplish. You can't expect KU fans to be happy...we hate loosing every as much as Kentucky fans do. So..relax, enjoy it and remember this is November.

JHawk06 10 years, 2 months ago

Haha, even though I don't agree with most of your player bashing it's a known fact that most of those kids are just out there until they can get to the pros. You can see it in how they all play for themselves and already think they are in the NBA. (walking/carrying all the time, streetball moves, etc)

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 2 months ago

If I ever see t-rob go baseline and try a reverse layup again I'm going to jump through my tv set and deal with him myself! Or Conner dribble into the lane. Tyshawn falling down. And someone forgot to tell EJ he's not suspended anymore so he can start playing.

Other than that we'll be alright, we are only going to get better as the year goes on. Hang out all season ranked 15-20 and make a little noise in March.

KansasComet 10 years, 2 months ago

Great post, too funny about EJ not being suspended anymore. Sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying.

TheGiftedOne 10 years, 2 months ago

+1 About Elijah. All I heard all offseason was how much better Elijah was and how it is "his time". And Travis Releford PLAYED HORRIBLE. I love the kid but c'mon, keep your damn head in the game. KU got emotional when Kentucky went on that run... we need a leader to step up and lock everything up. I have faith in Bill.

P.S. Both three's by Tharpe were terrible shot selection... someone needs to let that kid know you don't do that crap in MSG when you wear the crimson and blue. Im sure he is a stud and will be great but I'm not forgetting that.

Joe Baker 10 years, 2 months ago

EJ looked like old EJ from last year. He was afraid to make mistakes.

This team is going to play way too tight and that will be their downfall every game. If they don't loosen up and play, it's going to be along season.

Don Everett 10 years, 2 months ago

Damn, I hope T-rob goes baseline and tries a reverse layup first thing against Georgetown so I can see you get your assed kicked. That would be awesome. Hopefully your fat assed piehole gets shut for good.

FSUJHAWK 10 years, 2 months ago

Both teams were obviously not on their game (perhaps because of the quality of the opponents) and both teams got exposed, not in the good way.

KU has a lot to forward to. I was really impressed with Whitney's game and mere presence in the paint. Without him we would have lost in a rout. Also, though late in the game, TT showed he has leadership qualities and can put the team on his shoulders. This team is a work in progress and a loss like this early in the season will prepare us for when it really matters.


TheGiftedOne 10 years, 2 months ago

Just goes to show how much you know about Kansas basketball and TT... you don't know a damn thing. TT has been nothing but a team player for three entire season, never complains, worked his way thru suspensions and mistakes always saying the right thing. Who else created ANYTHING tonight?!?! Elijah and Travis provided nothing but turnovers and one-dribble pickups. Tyshawn: 22 pts, 2 Ast, 0 TO. Rest of the Gds: 20 pts, 5 Ast, 8 TO.

Mark Lindrud 10 years, 2 months ago

TT still can't shoot and seriously he is a senior getting suspended. Not very mature. He is still making mistakes driving to the lane and sometimes still makes underclassman mistakes. It is a long season so I am hoping he is ready to be a true leader because we need him.

FSUJHAWK 10 years, 2 months ago

I partially agree. He was trying to do too much, however he was told to take control of the game and/or he was the only option available. Last year there was a me-first player in TT. This year it's all about the team. If it wasn't, his butt would be on the bench were all the other me-first players belong.


John Strayer 10 years, 2 months ago

So....when coach tells them to spread it and drive it...TT is supposes to do what to please you.

Sound to me like he was following coaches directions. And in the process scored 22 points mostly from the free throw line.

If he does that the whole game maybe KU manages to put UK in foul trouble.

Bville Hawk 10 years, 2 months ago

TT was doing what he does best and what HCBS has been harping on him to do his whole career.

Turnovers out front are what killed us and you can't lay that on TT. Turnovers down low are just a turnover, but turnovers out front end up being 2 points going the other way.

Mike Barnhart 10 years, 2 months ago

Coach Self is blinded by Taylor's athleticism. Even if he had Michael Jordan like ability his 10 cent head and total lack of poise will always hurt his team!

speckleddog 10 years, 2 months ago

I agree. He has always been a ball hog. He would contribute more as a 2 guard.

Wheatgerm 10 years, 2 months ago

What else was working in the 2nd half? Tyshawn's FTs were the most productive offense KU had. You want to get to the line. You want to hit 88%. You want the other team in foul trouble. That's a good thing.

John Boyle 10 years, 2 months ago

All done well after the game was out of reach. The officials finally decided to call some fouls. I thought Kentucky did exactly what their coach told them to do coming out in the second half. They banged, they pushed and they held. Which is exactly what they should have done based on how the game was being called for the first 30+ minutes. KU should have done the same thing. The officials finally started calling some stuff late which made the announcers upset because they had to stay longer. Before someone comes on and says I'm blaming the refs for us losing, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we didn't adjust to how the game was being called so we didn't get as physical as we should have particularly starting the second half.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 2 months ago

We competed pretty well in the first half. Our offense was terrible all night (defense wasn't too horrible though). I was really impressed with how TT and TRob fought hard to keep us in the game. Even when it was obvious that KU would lose, TT kept driving the lane trying to make something happen. I don't mind him going 3/13 if he makes that many free throws. He showed a lot of heart last night.

But we needed more than just those two to step up. Withey played to the top of his ability, but I'm pretty disappointed in EJ and Releford. Those guys are good enough to compete with the likes of Kentucky without getting out-muscled. They will hopefully wake up as the season progresses.

Every year, I want KU to lose some tough ones in the non-conference to prepare us for the rest of the season. Looks like that won't be a problem this year.

Cmill1221 10 years, 2 months ago

First half wasn't much better. Sloppy game from both teams in first half. They just wernt as sloppy as us in the 2nd half.

NH_JHawk 10 years, 2 months ago

Overall, the outcome was just about what I expected. I thought Withey showed some aggressiveness at times in getting to the rim for some easy baskets as well as on the defensive end rebounding the ball. He exceeded my expectations. TT looked pretty bad driving the ball into the paint, especially in the 1st half when he looked "sped up". He got stuffed multiple times. Glad he stepped up and made all those free throws though.

baldjedi: Teahan is nothing like Morningstar other than shooting the open 3 pt shot. Teahan is light years behind Morningstar on the defensive end of the floor and will never be the defender that Brady was. So I'm not sure how you even make the statement that they're similar.

Finally, I know we beat this like a dead horse everytime Dick Vitale announces our game (which is rare thankfully). He might as well of been wearing an Anthony Davis fan jersey last night. He loves Duke, UNC, and UK. Never gives KU any love even when we have the elite talent. I had to mute my TV after the 1st five minutes of the game.

Steve Gantz 10 years, 2 months ago

If we had a bunch of future NBA players on our roster he'd had been going crazy for us too.

NH_JHawk 10 years, 2 months ago

I'm not sure I agree with you on that, wissoxfan83. Back in 2007-2008 we were obviously loaded with future NBA players and he was in love with Memphis and Calipari in the NC game and with Roy and UNC in the FF. Gave no love to KU...

David Atchley 10 years, 2 months ago

If the basketball team doesn't produce well this year, we can at least bask in the glory that is Kansas football

RockCaCO3 10 years, 2 months ago

Really? You have to rag on the football team on a bball article?

TheGiftedOne 10 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

TheGiftedOne 10 years, 2 months ago

Who says curse words? Its the 21st f* century. It sucks losing a lot more in March... as Kentucky has gotten used to in the last decade. Does it suck for Cal losing all his accomplishments? Literally don't care that we lost...2nd game of the year... bigger fish to fry. Happy you got hard from the W tho... I bet it was a good night with your right hand.

Al Martin 10 years, 2 months ago

UKAllDay: You know, you come onto our board and troll, and are surprised that you catch grief, some of it not very classy. What would you expect?

Are we over on your board being jackasses? It's a sincere question; I wouldn't know because I don't bother with other team's boards. If we are, bad on us.

As far as your team, I disagree with most posters here. You looked sloppy, but it's your second game as well, and I expect you to improve a great deal. There were moments in the second half when your ball movement was excellent. If you guys do that, you'll be impossible to defend.

This is the first time in a while that we've faced a team that had significantly more talent than we did, and no, it wasn't very much fun :-)

SDSurferFan 10 years, 2 months ago

IMO. Not a bad post from a UK dude.

You are right....they have talent....but as you will admit, he's had a lot of talent before and no rings.

Yes, I hate the NBA. They are freshmen, early season, ESPN, MSG, but enough. You don't see Duke players doing that. Or KU for that matter. I give them a little leeway given the UK.KU deal, but fine line between excited and being a punk. Teague showed he's a punk...if he was on fire all game then fine....but the first half was awful.

Mel Clare 10 years, 2 months ago

I myself really dont like the NBA.................I would rather follow the kids in college.........ANY college and watch them play ball! Yes UK won, yes, all these kids have issues with the way they celebrate............both teams. If the NCAA passed a rule about showboating..........this stuff would stop......2 tech fouls and the ball should be enough! The flexing, showboating as Vtiale said has no place in the game.....just play. It was the best thing Vitale said all night.............

Not impressed with Teague.........6 turnovers in the first half and then makes ONE three and shows off???? I would more than understand if he was hot all night long........but oh well........

UK is talented and long, and will learn to play as a team in March.............I am thinking elite 8, maybe final four.................UK and Florida will battle for the SEC.

KU has some experience, and will be better within the system, but a lack of quality depth.............sweet 16 is my guess.......KU and Baylor will battle for the BIG XII.

As I stated.............I would rather watch ANY college team play basketball than the NBA any day.............most of the kids in college have the heart to play hard. Just more fun.............and yes, that includes watching UK and Duke and UNC...........(although I root against them) ;-)

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 2 months ago

Nice! I follow players in the NBA not the teams.

Sam Constance 10 years, 2 months ago

Wow UK. I don't think I could give a better example of "desperate for attention" than coming over to a rival team's website and looking for some "credit" for your team's win. I'll tell you this much, had KU won last night, I sure as hell wouldn't find myself over on the UK Basketball website crying about the lack of "balance" on the UK message boards. Get over yourself.

But I have to respond to a few points you made:

1) The margin of victory was 10 points. It sounds lame when fans make excuses for their team's losses by using margin of victory, so you can only imagine how utterly pathetic it sounds to be quibbling about how much of a "blowout" this was when your team won the game. Points scored in the final 10 minutes count just as much as the first 10 minutes. UK likely slowed it down to help prevent KU from going on a rally.

2) I'm not sure what you're talking about with the "you got garbage time points with our bench in the game". Look at the box score genius. Your bench played a grand total of 30 minutes the entire game, and 20 of that belonged to senior Darius Miller. Again, pathetic.

3) The Thomas "foul" that led to the scrum in the second half was hilarious. Thomas reached out after losing the ball, and Jones promptly went crashing to the floor. It was funny to watch because whenever Jones wasn't flopping around like a fish out of water, he looked athletic and strong--yet when he drew that contact from Robinson, he looked like a sheet of paper. Strange. And as I said during the game, if Jones is going to pull some soccer BS like that, then he deserves to have Robinson's junk in his face. Clearly Jones wanted to be on the ground with Robinson standing over him, so Robinson merely obliged his desire. Never mind the fact that the worst part of that entire scene was that little punk Teague chasing down KU players who were WALKING AWAY FROM THE SITUATION. Say what you will about Robinson's decision to step over Jones, Kentucky's players are the ones that tried to escalate it to playground streetball fight status. Any other time I've seen a college player chasing down another player, it's been a technical.

4) UK wins 99 times out of 100 in that game? Okay, I'm done. I'm sure there are Kentucky fans who are smarter than you. I'll save my time and effort for them.

Brianna Zaleski 10 years, 2 months ago

Absolutely great post MP88.

UKALLDAY and Skywalker read and get the hell out of here.

SDSurferFan 10 years, 2 months ago

  1. Forgot how sloppy it was in the beginning of the season. Expected a much better performance out if a veteren KU team. Way too sped up.
  2. TT. Way to draw some fouls, but ugly Expected much more from a senior pt guard- composure, leadership...he should have been the calming force.
  3. New favorite player to hate. Teague. Dickie V was basketball. Shut up kid....especially after your awful 1st half. No original personalities anymore....ESPN generation.
  4. Whitney. If he can play like this vs UK. He is going to be what we thought he could be. SD boy!!
  5. 3s obviously were big for UK. My issue is that most were uncontested.
  6. Glad they finally figured out that was RR with Chalmers. Kid helped win a NT for KU....geez.
  7. Still mad about SDSU not getting Young. They need some front court help desperately. Kid has some hops.
  8. UK and their antics makes me appreciate Duke and UNC much more. Will root hard vs UK this year.

TheGiftedOne 10 years, 2 months ago

"No original personalities anymore....ESPN generation." Love this... so true. Teague is an a**hole... I have more respect for the always professional Tyshawn.

speckleddog 10 years, 2 months ago

You are so articulate. Did you even go to college?

Steve Brown 10 years, 2 months ago

Releford where are you, look lost on the court, stay with your man, it is all about defense.

Beate Williams 10 years, 2 months ago

Did you read the article, Self indicated he told TT to go to the hole.

SDSurferFan 10 years, 2 months ago

Acknowledged his FTs....3/13, 2 assists. Senior pt guard. Not good.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 2 months ago

Sure, he should definitely have more assists. But EJ and Releford were off last night, so assists were difficult to come by. See, assists only happen when the person you pass to actually makes a basket. Driving the lane and taking fouls was a better strategy for TT last night. The reason he went 3/13 was because Bill Self told him to drive the lane. He got fouled (a LOT) and made 15 of 17 free throws. You can't blame Tyshawn for the loss. He's the one Jayhawk that left it all on the court last night.

There's plenty of blame to go around, but I would say that the inability of EJ and Releford to do ANYTHING was more of a factor than TT not racking up a bunch of assists. TT showed us last night that he is not a quitter and really is a leader for this team (as the poll results showed before the season started).

SDSurferFan 10 years, 2 months ago

Oh....props for ESPN for their riveting interviews with a Wall and Cousins. Really...well done, great insight. I think the hotdog vendor would have been a better interview (no insult to the hotdog vendors of the world).

I love when players act like their annoyed by this.

Brianna Zaleski 10 years, 2 months ago

No kidding. WTF? You decide to interview Demarcus Cousins? I couldn't even hear or understand anything he said. Pathetic. Way to go ESPN. And people wonder why these inner city kids act the way they do, because they are glorified for it on national TV

Robert Brown 10 years, 2 months ago

Once March hits, no one remembers games played in November. Coaches have to love games like this because it highlights areas of improvement. Coaches can always see areas of improvement (note Calipari's comments after the game), players not so much unless they get lose a big game like this one. This team may lose 3-4 games before conference play, but the tough schedule, and good coaching, should make them stronger.

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 2 months ago

This will be a very very very lonnnnnng season. Is the NIT still an end of season tournament?

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 2 months ago

I would give you my last testicle if KU does not go to the NCAA tournament.

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 2 months ago

Based on what I witnessed last night you may want to prepare yourself. KU could not even run the weave smoothly. God help us if we have to rely on Conner for three point shooting. Beyond TRob and Taylor we have not much more than Div II and Juco transfers. Sorry, just the way I see it.

RockCaCO3 10 years, 2 months ago

For all practical purposes, this game was the first real game of the season, and you're already writing them off to the NIT? Seriously?

speckleddog 10 years, 2 months ago

The KU team you saw last night will not look like the same team when the conference starts. There will be no NIT for the Jayhawks in 2012.

tis4tim 10 years, 2 months ago

Second game of the season against a really good Kentucky team, so I can't get too upset with the results.

The most disgusting part of the game, for me, was seeing the complete ignorance of the media with regard to KU basketball on full display. It's utterly amazing and disheartening that the numbskulls doing these games know so little about a program of such significance.

A couple samples:

"Rick Langford" ... really, Vitale?

"Mario Chalmers is in the house." while the camera focuses squarely on Russell Robinson. Then, after correcting the error, saying Robinson is "Mario Chalmers' friend" because the announcer still has no idea who he is.

It's appalling that these guys don't take any time to learn our players names or anything about our program's history. Meanwhile, I have to listen to Digger Phelps go on and on for 10 minutes about how Duke represents the epitome of family values and listen to Vitale dream out loud about the Duke - Kentucky match-up in next year's event.

The whole thing is beyond the pale.

Wheatgerm 10 years, 2 months ago

That was totally embarrassing. The announcers and the guys in the truck fell flat on their faces. It was hard to watch. And this was ESPN, the worldwide leader in sports.

Sam Constance 10 years, 2 months ago

Clearly KU was in the "Not Coach K" backseat for last night's game.

We got stuck with Dick V. because ESPN wanted to have a Coach K's mentor (Knight) and former player (Bilas) call his game, which I guess I can understand. But it's clear that Digger and Vitale don't have the same kind of schoolgirl crush about KU's program as they do about the two Carolina schools and Kentucky.

On the whole mess with "Mario's friend"... I found that incredibly ironic that a star broadcaster like Schulman wouldn't be able to identify a starter from the 2008 National Championship team. Or at least have the professional integrity to have someone tell him who the bleep he's looking at before talking. The ironic part? I heard an interview with Schulman on radio 810 last year, and one of the morning show hosts asked him a question that he bristled at because he clearly felt that the question displayed a lack of knowledge about his personal accomplishments as a broadcaster for ESPN. Clearly working with Dick Vitale regularly gives one quite a sense of self-importance.

All I saw last night was a guy with no concern for professional competence. Broadcasters can't know everything; they are human. But they should at least know enough to be able to avoid giving FALSE information.

tis4tim 10 years, 2 months ago

"Texas and Colorado are in the top 25 in recruiting, what does that tell yea?"

It tells me that despite Texas' incredibly awesome, all-superlative recruiting, in your opinion, they still choked away a 17-point lead to a Rhode Island team picked to finish 10th in the Atlantic-10 before putting them away in the last few minutes.

justinryman 10 years, 2 months ago

Actually having Morningstar running around the 3pt arc last night would have helped a great deal. It would have given us a real threat from outside and not allowed UK to triple down on TRob. Plus those extra points would have helped along with solid D.

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 2 months ago

Maybe..but there are a lot of former KU players I would have liked seeing at the arc far more than Brady.

Mike Barnhart 10 years, 2 months ago

Slow down!

Recruiting's been tough for a couple of years. Carolina and Duke will always get the Carolina and Duke type players which leaves everyone else fighting for the rest. Kansas got a lot of those guys in the past but the new coaches at Arizona and Kentucky are crushing everyone right now. Be patient, it wont last. Coach Self will get it going again.

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 2 months ago

I agree...but 2 or 3 back to back weak classes and you're in the NIT.

Mel Clare 10 years, 2 months ago

WHAT is your hardon for Morningstar and Self? Why dont you just shut the hell up? I do not see anyone beating down your door to replace a coach who has a NC or a player that was on this team.....................

What an ass!

Chad Hallack 10 years, 2 months ago

Hihawk, you must be smoking crack in your weed pipe. Most baseless, uniformed nonsensical post I may have ever read here. Not even gonna go to the trouble to set it straight. Ridiculous.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 2 months ago

First, Vitale said that this was the weakest KU team he has seen in the past 10 years. He never said "this is the worse KU team I have ever seen." That's not even grammatically correct and if you're going to quote something, make sure somebody actually said it. Second, TT is a good PG. You are wrong. Third, Self is not going anywhere. Now, go away and sulk to yourself.

Wheatgerm 10 years, 2 months ago

We're trying to get Anthony Davis into a salon to do a some maintenance on his unibrow. A little wax, a quick pull, a scream. Then a little tweezing to shape. It wouldn't take much to turn them into amazing eyebrows (my wife say he looks like Ru Paul). We hope to bring in a camera crew and turn it into a two-minute feature for ESPN.

Sadly, there's not much we can do about the Terrence Jones Scoobie-Doo chin.

Helen Gross 10 years, 2 months ago

Did u see the uni brow on that one player! In a even even!!!

Andy Tweedy 10 years, 2 months ago

IMHO: 1) Tyshawn Taylor sweats like nobody else on this planet. That dude is just drenched every time I see him! I guess that means he's playing hard. 2) Tharpe has some growing up to do, but I love the potential. 3) Withey isn't a bad player, but I think people are going to lose their minds if they think he'll ever be a force on the boards like T-Rob. 4) I actually think this team will continue to get better as the season goes on. I know that's generally the case, but this team is more of a work in progress than most KU teams of the last 20 years. 5) I see no reason why, by the time conference play starts, we can't win the Big XII again.

clevelandjayhawker 10 years, 2 months ago

The Good- Learning experience, way KU came out the first half, some guard penetration to the bucket, our defense (when not turning it over or kentucky cherry picking)

The Bad- Kevin Young's playing time, everyone kinda looked lost or when Teahan was out there trying to force it to him, getting blocked a lot and not finishing like we should, and not looking comfortable with the simple pass....especially the easy ones where a guard and forward or center are setting up the offense 35 feet away from the hoop

The Ugly- Anthony Davis' Unabrow

RockChalk26 10 years, 2 months ago

Anthony Davis = Ugliest dude I've seen in awhile

justanotherfan 10 years, 2 months ago

Last night's game went about how I expected. Sloppy game between two teams way too charged up to play an early season game. That first half was brutally ugly. Both teams will be better come March because of this game, but last night was tough to watch.

With that said, KU has some issues that will come back to haunt - most notably that we are going to struggle to get easy baskets against quality defensive teams. Other than Tyshawn, no one else looked like they could beat their man one on one on the perimeter and we already know that in March, good defensive teams aren't going to let you score on your base offense trip after trip. Withey will be the key here. If he can command some double teams in the post to open up Teahen for threes, and he can keep his man from cheating over on TRob because he's an offensive threat.

Kentucky is going to be good. They had their PG play probably the worst he will play all year and still pulled away from a quality opponent. If he's even decent, that front line will be tough to contend with.

Dirtwood 10 years, 2 months ago

I'm no expert but that was the worst KU game I've seen in a long time. How many times was KU going to try and dribble to the baseline and then throw it away!! Hope they get better.

Dee Shaw 10 years, 2 months ago

This is the reason why I love college basketball. The beauty of college basketball. You play your second game of the year and loose and to be honest it really does not matter. Unlike college football. Heck we can go to Maui and loose two more games. I predict that KU looses 6 to 8 games this year. Oh my gosh the sky is falling for most KU fans with that many loses. Who cares. Like I have said for years the only games that matter to me are 6 games in March. You win 6 games in a row in March and boys you will be the National Champions. How many times as KU fans we go with 2 or 3 loses and loose in the tournament and all we focus on is the one loss in March. Loose now and win later. Thats my theory. Unlike college football you can loose 1 game and still have a chance. What a disaster for college football. Have you ever heard of a tournament or playoff.

Mike Barnhart 10 years, 2 months ago

Dude, the word is loos not loose. Some piple can't spell.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 2 months ago

Exactly! I looked at our schedule this morning and I also think we will lose 6-8 games during the regular season this year.

BillSelf4Prez 10 years, 2 months ago

it wasn't like their guys were stealing the ball from us. We were passing it right to them or leaving it right in front of them for them to take. Hopefully next game we can limit the turnovers..

Tony Bandle 10 years, 2 months ago

Points of interest:

1] TRob fouling will continue to be a challenge all season. 2] Jeff still not strong enough to truly mix it up with legitimaste "bigs". 3] Conner's lack of footspeed a liability on defense..if not hot, a liability, period. 4] Travis looked tentative, nervous or both..just relax and let the game come to him 5] Tyshawn was the best player out there 6] Elijah was a little overwhelmed, but will improve. 7] The bench [or lack there of it] will be an issue until the guys ramp it up.

My suggestion to Bill..adjust your strategy to best suit the ability of your players hence go for a zone defense:

1] Will help keep TRob out of foul trouble. 2] Will keep our bigs in better position to rebound. 3] Will allow Jeff less grouind to cover resulting in better defense 4] Will allow Conner to be less of a defensive liability. 5] Will utilize our perimeter defense to guard the three. 6] Will slow the game down against more athletically talented opponents.

Don't anyone jump off a bridge..we got beat, deservedly so, but also had the areas of needed improvement highlighted without question.

Aloha and mahala...see you in Maui

Tony Bandle 10 years, 2 months ago

Mahalo Missouri accent..sorry. :)

HawkAlumn 10 years, 2 months ago

What turnovers do you speak of? TT didn't have any...

Chad Hallack 10 years, 2 months ago

I was with you until the zone part, it may not be a bad idea to use at times but the only reason is to protect T-Tob in foul trouble. Zones do not put you in a better position to rebound, to the contrary. Zones are vulnerable to the three, not better suited to defend it. Hence the moniker "zonebuster" for many 3 point shooters.

Chad Hallack 10 years, 2 months ago

I don't bother to argue with people about Taylor anymore...

Ben Simonett 10 years, 2 months ago

"5] Tyshawn was the best player out there"

that one was a joke right?

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 2 months ago

I agree about Tyshawn but overall thought Oak did a good job.

Steve Brown 10 years, 2 months ago

Well done Oak. A portion of modifited ball pressure zone would help Jeff get more blocks and limit TRob fouls one would think, let's try it.

Conner should be better there as well.

When would we need it, Ohio State, maybe Baylor then in March for game 3&4.

kennethst 10 years, 2 months ago

I thought KU actually looked pretty good at times. Very happy with Withey.

They are young. Games like this will help them a lot.

PS-I'm convinced that some of you will not be happy until KU is decllared "Greatest Most Excellent and Wonderful Team of All Time and Forever".

ampthatman 10 years, 2 months ago

Then they'll just go back to griping about the "woo"s in the Rock Chalk chant, or something else completely irrelevant and unimportant.

Bion Ostrander 10 years, 2 months ago

As much as I dislike Calimari and love to hate on KY, the same as many others here, we got our butt whipped good - - so no excuses.

As much as it pains me to admit, KY has more upside than KU the rest of the season with their young players. KU's experience in Taylor, TRob, Teahan, Withey, Releford and Johnson (all juniors and seniors) got schooled by KY's freshmen and sophs (KY starters are all freshman and sophs, and all on the NBA mock draft board as 1st round picks).

I think Self can X and O the heck out of Calimari, but sometimes an abundance of talent just wins despite the coach!!

Yes, Calimari plays the dribble drive pro offense, and yes Self still plays the high-low offense no matter what, but Calimari's offense works better for his team than KU's high-low offense works for this team. I understand we have TRob and Withey for the high-low, but that is it!!! KU needs to develop an offense, or some diversity, that better fits with this group of players.

Taylor and Johnson got badly outplayed by KY's freshman players, and it won't get any better - - Taylor is Taylor unfortunately. Always trying to meet the "potential" label placed on him since a Fresh., but never met. His trouble in the off season is an indication he is still the same Taylor we all know.

Everyone will double up on TRob all year and take him away as a weapon, and Withey gets tired of jumping after about 2 quarters, so KU will suffer some losses. Same refrain as a lot of years, KU's spot-up outside shooting tanks in the tourney and a lot of important games. I sometimes think that Self does his best coaching job with the lesser talented team, so I hope that I am correct on that point.

I was so looking forward to seeing Releford in a starting role this year, I wish KU would have passed on the Xavier experiment and had Releford starting that year for the experience this year. Releford is having a tough season so far, so I hope he finds himself.

Go Hawks....

Robert Brock 10 years, 2 months ago

Releford's problem is not lack of experience. He simply is not a skilled player. He needs to learn to keep the ball moving and try not to do too much by himself.

Wheatgerm 10 years, 2 months ago

"Calimari" is so 2010. How about "The Squid"? It's my favorite. Makes you think for a second. Somebody HERE used it last year. I had to laugh.

Stephan123 10 years, 2 months ago

We really needed a talent like McLemore last night. Releford played so poorly on the offensive side. Our talent pool is shallow this year. KU will need to be hitting on all cylinders to stay up with some of the top teams. Nonetheless, should be a good year with this scrappy bunch of players.

joshar 10 years, 2 months ago

All I have to say is this a down year for us. Remember the 1998-99 season. The starting five was: Chenowith Robertson Gregory/Pugh Boschee Bradford

That was not a great lineup for us and was a down year. We went 23-10 overall, 11-5 in the Big 12, tied for 2nd in the Big 12 and won the Big 12 Tourney. We got smoked by Kentucky in the non-conference, beat by Iowa at home and lost at St. Louis. We made it to the tournament, obviously winning the Big 12 Tourney, either way, we would have made it. Then got beat by Kentucky by 4 points. Then the following year, we got probably one of the best duo in KU's history with Hinrich and Collison.

Vernon Riggs 10 years, 2 months ago

Here is good advice: Take a deep breath. It's November. We lost four starters from last years team. We are not ready to play for the NCAA championship, yet. Have faith in this team. I saw alot of character. We play good in parts. We play rotten in parts. The things that do not kill you makes you better. Tougher. Ready to play bigger games. We got beat. We got beat by Kentucky. I don't like getting beat by Kentucky like every true KU fan in the world. But I see the positives. This team will get better. I hope we play Kentucky again in March or April and we will measure the progress then. We are going to play some tough teams this year: UCLA, Duke, Ohio State, Baylor, Texas. This team will make us proud of this season. So take another deep breath and enjoy! ROCK CHALK.

joshar 10 years, 2 months ago

I agree with you 100%. It's just our second game against highly talented team and we lost by 10. We found our flaws and now it's time to work on them. We've had worse teams than this in the past and managed to end the season pretty good. We will be fine, coach Self is a much better coach than recruiting. He makes players not recruit ones that are already made. He'll get the best out of our guys.

Ethan Berger 10 years, 2 months ago

We lost because we tried to play Kentucky style basketball. We are no where near as athletic as them. We should have slowed down the game. But unfortunately when we did slow it down, they found open 3s. Our rotation defense was below average, our dribble drive offense was below average. What did we learn? That it is November. Kentucky has an NBA team, we don't. We have been on the bid side of recruiting the past two years. What does it mean? That we are in a slump, it happens. If we weren't finalist on these kids list, then we might need to worry, but we are always there. Lets hope Kentucky gets Jarnell Strokes and UCLA continuous to slide, then we might have a shot at Shabazz. Also please refrain from the "thug" talk. Who are you to judge these kids? I don't care if they play for Kentucky, once you bring out the thug talk, you just sound like a racist pig from Missouri. Calipari might have vacated wins, but he has one heck of a coach. Self knows first hand how hard it is to win win freshman and sophomores running your team.

nothingbutbasketball18 10 years, 2 months ago

Positives for the game:

  1. We now know Withey can block even the best of them. Before he was blocking D2 teams and a terrible Towson team. This game showed that he can block highly ranked players as well.

  2. Although it was later in the second half, Tyshawn decided to stop avoiding contact and head for it straight on to draw fouls. Now, had he done this earlier, we might have gotten their bigs into a bit more foul trouble early on.

  3. Justin Wesley defended well for the most part. What he lacks in size, he makes up for in his quick feet.

The bad?

  1. Like most have already said, we were not playing to our strengths. We played one on one basketball which is far from KU's style of play.

  2. The offense was stagnant and we werenlt moving nearly enough. We made ourselves easy to defend.

  3. Every time Robinson got the ball he was double, triple, or even sometimes quadruple teamed. Surprisingly to me, he lacked the forethought to predict this and pass out of it before he was smothered with defenders.

Overall, this was definitely a game we can learn from. Technically we weren't supposed to win. As a KU fan, I think we automatically expect to win. We're a little spoiled like that. But with a rebuilding year comes many challenges. I believe we'll be okay. It's highly doubtful tht we'll play a team more athletic than Kentucky this year. We have the necessary tools to put up a good record this year. This is only the second game we've played as a full team. We'll figure it out. I have faith in this team.

kennethst 10 years, 2 months ago

Amazes me how some of you can judge a team and/or player(s) based on one game......and a game in November at that!!

So when Releford scores and plays well......He's awesome!!

When Releford has a bad game.......he's done, no good,poor talent!!

I have news for some of you KU fans.......guess what.....KU is NOT always going to win!! KU is not always going to have the best players!! Life doesn't work that way. Deal with it. Move on.

jayhawkeratheart 10 years, 2 months ago

Impressive first half, looked as though KU could run with anyone, then came out flat-footed in the second half. Allowed the run to happen and had no answer. Jhawks continued to pound the inside with absolutely no outside attack. Could not decide if this was a coaching call, or the lack of talent to shoot the three. UK went uncontested on the 3 point shot, as our guys just stood back and watched the show. Love the look of the talent on the floor, but still very concerned that we do not have the savy to turn up the outside game when it is needed. Looking forward to a great year, but will say that Bill needs to build that outside game to compliment all the talent inside. Go J-hawks.

Tyson Ailshie 10 years, 2 months ago

We are a long way from another National championship. And might be relinquishing the Big 12 title this year to another team.

DallasJayhawk1 10 years, 2 months ago

1) Defense in the 2nd half was terrible 2) Limited depth will be a problem obviously 3) Where is the intensity--we are Kansas--show some pride in a big game at MSG 4) I'm not impressed with Releford--he plays too soft and seems uncoordinated at times

Nick Cole 10 years, 2 months ago

Remember, experience usually wins these early season games. UK returned more minutes then KU did from last season. Factor that in with the fact that UK has better talent at almost every position and is deeper then KU, this was not a game KU was likely to win this early in the season. If we see UK again in March, I like KU in that game. Would love to see them in the Sweet 16 or Elite 8.

We'll get better. HCBS will use this as a learning tool for the rest of the season.

Rock Chalk! Beat G'Town!

Jayhawk444 10 years, 2 months ago

I think this is backwards. UK started 3 freshmen and 2 (very good) sophomores. We started seniors and juniors. Of course other than TR and TT there wasn't a lot of experience, but at least we had been on the court in big time games in big time arenas before. I liked our chances much better last night than in March. UK's upside is a lot bigger than ours, IMO, and they still beat us.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 2 months ago

I've read lots of good comments: 1. Stars/Rankings: This is an interesting game to analyze. The team with the better players won, and did so based on talent. We get all touchy/feely about coach Self and how he will "coach 'em up." But other guys can coach, too. And I'm sorry, I could coach KU and beat Towson. So could you. Overwhelming talent differences are exposed. The difference between KU and UK on the talent is much closer, of course. But what did we see last night? It is the difference between Tarc and Landen Lucas. It is the difference between Tharpe and Josiah Turner. It is the difference between Angelo Chol and Jamari Traylor. God bless Teahan and Wesley, but at Kansas, these are emergency only players. The emergency is that we don't have any other choice. 2. Freshmen: I thought the fact that they had more freshman would be to our advantage. Our upper classmen played like they were in awe of their surroundings. Self tried to say postgame that this was the first game like this for a number of players .. not so. Wesley, ok. Tharpe, certainly, But everyone else are upper classmen. Not what I expected. 3. Releford: Please play the game. Please get involved. Relax. Five turnovers is unreal. He played significantly better at the beginning of last season. There is not enough history here with him .. have to assess him as of January 1 and see what happens. But incredibly disappointed in his overall play. 4. Tyshawn: Speaking of history. I know there are the TT lovers, the ones that explain away the obvious (see waywardjay) .. but what the he**? Stats got padded by the last 8-9 minutes of the game. But how many shots can one man get blocked? Two assists .. Two. For our point guard. One of the assists was a mistake on a missed shot that Withey dunked. Falling down. Out of control. One handed lazy passes. 3 of 13 shooting? Getting to the line and getting fouled is fine, but that mentality for a point guard leads to the other stuff .. shots blocked, quick transition to the other end. Can he finish? Same old, same old. One game he'll explode, or for a stretch, and then go back to what we're used to. The apologists will say .. hey, he had zero turnovers. Solely by the grace of God. 5. EJ: As with Releford, just seemed to be too timid. 6. Withey: Played fine. But need stronger rebounding. He should get 6 boards by accident in 27 minutes. 7. Teahan: Obviously can't match up against better players, but certainly our three ball threat. Played hard. 8. Wesley: Can't expect anything more from this guy. Played hard as well. 9. Tharpe: Will give him a pass. Only got 9 minutes. Didn't get the chance really to settle in. Kentucky's freshmen were just as bad in their first 9 minutes. 10. Press: Nice to see we decide to press with 1:30 left. Try this, down by 15 with 7:00 minutes to go .. press here and there. As a change-up.

Wheatgerm 10 years, 2 months ago

  1. Excellent point. Makes you wonder what KU might have been able to accomplish had they pressed earlier. It looked effective.

RockChalk26 10 years, 2 months ago

5, there was a moment in the second half were EJ drove the lane making two explosive moves to get to the rim. You could hear MSG "Oooooo" and "Ahhhhh" I think EJ will only get better as the season goes on.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 2 months ago

(cont) I left off TRob on purpose. No concerns at all other than cheap fouls. This will have us on pins and needles all season.

This was perhaps our most talented opponent this season. I am very concerned with how our guards .. TT, EJ, and Releford .. looked last night. But concern means nothing. Heck, I'm concerned about a lot of things. Let's see how we adjust, and how we learn from this experience. We know this team has a much lower ceiling than usual, but it will be even lower if guys don't play team basketball.

northlawrence 10 years, 2 months ago

Releford was HORRIBLE - without better defense he needs to sit - with Tharpe on the floor you have more speed and desire even if you do not have the experience - that and Tharpe is a better shooter - Bill - please sit Travis we would be much quicker and better with Tharpe - I am glad T Rob realized his mistakes - his poor shot selection after 1 pass at the start of the second half followed by EJ's stupid foul was a 6 point swing - we beat ourselves in this one

MDHawk 10 years, 2 months ago

This game was far from a statement for highly touted as their recruits are, we should never have been in a position to win this game. If a couple more calls go our way, and we hit a couple threes, we're right in this game and folks start to wonder about the youngins on UK. They're obviously talented, but the question every year is whether or not Calipari can reign them in and make them play his way, and guessing from Calipari's comments they took at best a lateral step last night toward that goal. We got beat last night by talent alone, not a NC quality team (at least, not yet).

As far as our 'hawks, we have older guys, but only one player who has seen significant minutes in the past...TT. Reality is that we're nearly as green as the youth on UK. I think the theme of this season is going to be who and how many of our players grow into go-to guys. T-Rob doesn't have a choice, he has to step up...he pulled another disappearing act in the second half last night that historically was masked by production from the twins. If we are going to win big games (and we can certainly do so), T-Rob is going to have to figure out how to stay on the court and keep his motor running for 30-35 minutes.

Steve Gantz 10 years, 2 months ago

A team with a punk coach will act like punks. See Kentucky

AsadZ 10 years, 2 months ago

I was at game last night. Firstly it was great to see so many KU fans in the garden, Jayhawks were very well represented.

I disagree with comments on TT. TT had a great game. He was our best player. He did exactly what coach asked him to do in 2nd half when we we had virtually no other offense, ball was not moving much. So Coach knew that only way to get going is to have drive TT drive in the lane. He missed several of them due to UK's length however he did make most of his FTs in 2nd half. That's pretty good.

On the other hand Travis and EJ had a rough game. EJ had decent 1st half but bad 2nd half. Our perimeter defense was bad. UKs ball movement was very good in 2nd half.

The game was close in 1st half as UK was tight and had lot of TOs, and our guys played with energy. UK dominated from get go in 2nd half and we got exposed.

Manning should show T-Rob game film on Aldrich on how he used to handle double teams and kick out. T-Rob is forcing the issue and as such losing his game.

I do agree that Withey had a god game especially on D. If he can just control a little bit on Offense he can be solid

Our transition defense was bad as well. This can be coached however. One other issue I am seeing from from our bigs has to do with outlet passes. They should watch file and learn from Aldrich how he used to thrown out bombs as soon as he would get the rebound resulting in quick points.

I did not expect us to win. Close first half was due to UK TOs but once they got going we saw what was expected. It could have been better if EJ and TRavis had played better. Good thing is that all areas that got exposed can be corrected with practice and watching a of of tape.

jaymar74 10 years, 2 months ago

Biggest devlopment from the game was that Withey looked like he may help more than I thought he would. Balance of team will play better going forward. I think we will be first, second or third in conference, win 20-25 games and be about a 6 seed in the NCAA's. How nice will it be to go into the tournament without a huge spotlight on us and the whole country waiting for us to choke in the tournament.

misfire 10 years, 2 months ago

This could be a fun season. No great expectations and then heartbreak as in the past.

theend 10 years, 2 months ago

Completely agree.......nothing to lose.

theend 10 years, 2 months ago

Well....Well......Well........look who is back! It's me ......'The End'!!!

Many of you would assume I would be critical of KU's game yesterday.......and many of you would be WRONG!!

Yes......I have always said KU is not competitive on a national level and I still believe that. But you dont have to believe me.....just look at tourney results last 10 years.

But the only way KU will get competitive is by playing games like this!!! I honestly don't care if we lose 3 or 4 games like this early in the year.....that's fine. Because wins and losses dont matter........national titles are ALL THAT MATTER!!!!

KU will get used to this type of talent well before the tourney begins in will help them completely. You will see.

Sorry.....but beating up on Iowa State and Texas Tech does nothing to prepare KU for March.....probably actually hurts therir preparation.

Ok.......go ahead with your hateful comments about me

Steve Gantz 10 years, 2 months ago

I've always kind of agreed with you on our scheduling, until this year it's not been up to standards. The part I don't agree with is you use the examples of TTech and ISU. We have no choice but to play those teams, right? If we were in a different conference it'd be no difference.

But if you're a Jayhawk fan, why do you insist on antagonizing fellow Jayhawks? That's the worst part of what you do. No one here wants to write "hateful comments about a fellow Jayhawk", but they will.

theend 10 years, 2 months ago

I apprecaite your comment......but sometimes it's good to makes peopel see the reality and facts instead of their fantasy world like marchphog88.

addlime 10 years, 2 months ago

I totally agree! Unfortunately we needed this kind of scheduling when we had a few McD AAs on the team. It will help us either way.

Sam Constance 10 years, 2 months ago

Tourney results the last 10 years:

1 Championship 2 Final Fours 3 Elite Eights 1 Sweet Sixteen

How many programs out there do you think have that kind of success over the last decade? I'd say two or three.

Get lost.

theend 10 years, 2 months ago

Yeah....that's it marchphog.....go ahead,comrade....spew your offical party line. But we all know there have been devestating losses in the tourney. No need to recap. But you are blind to it and are a a real rah-rah fan.

I'm just stating the obvious and you don't want to hear it. Well guess what, are going to hear it from me........even with you KU Thought Police patrolling this board.

DallasJayhawk1 10 years, 2 months ago

Go back and look at the "upsets" of Bradley and Bucknell--both of those 2 teams we weren't ranked high going into the tourney. The only 2 "upsets" were UNI and VCU (who went to the Final 4).

theend 10 years, 2 months ago

PS- 1+2+3+1=7....not 10, Einstein. You conveniently left out a few results, didn't you? Thanks for making my point.

Sam Constance 10 years, 2 months ago

Just so we're clear, I'm not "leaving out" any results. It's not like 2005, 2006 and 2010 are a secret, is it? I didn't include them because my point is how WELL KU has done over the past 10 years. That requires that I show what they've done well. If you want to refute my point, then show me schools that have better POSITIVE results over the past 10 years.

I'm not sure how listing the three bad years does anything to illustrate the point about how impressive KU's resume has been in comparison to other programs during that time period, because my argument is that KU's 10-year resume is better than the overwhelming majority of other schools, those three years included. So please, go ahead and include them. You don't really think that 3 out of 10 proves that KU is not competitive on a national level, do you? Surely not.

Plus, if it's so obvious, then provide an example of programs that have been more impressive (aka, "nationally competitive") over the past 10 years. I'll start you off with two fairly obvious ones:

North Carolina Duke

The trick here is that I don't think you can find another program besides those two that is demonstrably better.

theend 10 years, 2 months ago

UConn is a perferct example of everything KU should have been but was not. UConn plays in Big East and are challenged with tough B-Ball almost every single game. It prepares them well for March. This is my point. You have some good points as well.....I'm just saying really that KU needs this exposure early in the season.

jaymar74 10 years, 2 months ago

Theend, Seven final fours in last 25 years compare with North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, UConn, Arizona, Syracuse, Ohio State, Michigan State.... look it up,. who the hell else is there to compare us with on a national level, the Celtics??

Ben Simonett 10 years, 2 months ago

and beating up on Ole Miss and Auburn helps UK get ready for tournament time?

Im sure Duke and UNC get a real leg up on us playing BC and FSU.

every conference has its push overs

Bville Hawk 10 years, 2 months ago

We weren't very good at the 2 and 3 positions last night. This team will be doing good to win 25 games this season. I'm not trying to run them down, I just don't see the talent we are used to seeing in Jayhawk uniforms.

That being said, if we don't turn the ball over out front we probably win the game. As I said before, TO's on the baseline aren't killers. TO's out front are 2 points going the other way. A good portion of UK's points were uncontested layups off turnovers out front.

SCHNBALL 10 years, 2 months ago

theend, only problem I have with your theory about these games is:


theend 10 years, 2 months ago

True......but I'm talking about everyone and the entire experience. It will help them in March.

addlime 10 years, 2 months ago

Some really great posts here, and nice analysis, but the bottom line is this:

The recruiting issues have finally caught up with this team. There is a lack of depth and a significant lack of top 25 or even top 50 talent (and athleticism) on this team. (Relative to previous KU teams under Self or Williams) Even the best coaching and development cannot overcome that.

Jason Roberts 10 years, 2 months ago

I watched the game on DVR last night and was impressed with the fight KU put up in the first half only to fast forward through the rest of the game in hopes that the score wouldn't increase the way it did. A few things did stick out to me:

1) Withey's shot-blocking prowess against Kentucky's athletic players bodes well for KU this year

2) Robinson's knee was not as big an issue as the athletic frontline that surrounded him all night. He'll only face this two more times this year against Ohio State (Sullinger) and Baylor.

3) Taylor struggled shooting but to have a night with 0 turnovers is a huge plus. I look for him to be our go-to scorer.

4) Releford is our only proven "wing" player. Will Wesley fit the bill?

5) Having possibly the toughest non-conference schedule in the nation will make this team more battle-tested for the Big 12 s well as the Big Dance

On another note, I can only imagine how much more talented this team would have been if the Morris twins stayed. You have two choices:

1) come back for senior year and contend for national title then enter 2012 NBA draft as lottery picks; or

2) declare for NBA draft early and, knowing that a lockout could shut down the 2011-12 NBA season, borrow money from agents that will have to be paid back with interest.

I contemplated that as I saw one of them walking through the Apple Store out here in Santa Monica yesterday, thinking to myself that they may have come in for an appointment to take care of some Apple gear bought on their agent's dime.

Sorry to hark on "what if" but the thought of a loaded KU, North Carolina, Duke and Kentucky would have made up for possibly not having an NBA season.

Rae Bricil 10 years, 2 months ago

Would have loved if the twins stayed but if they did there is no way they would be lottery picks at the end of this year especially with the way they draft on "Potential". The only reason they went so high last year was because so many people stayed--add to that this years crop and they would have probably went early to late second round. Smart for them to strike while the iron was hot---Selby is another story entirely.

David Robinett 10 years, 2 months ago

Recruiting complainers, compare UK's conference championship performance to that of KU. They won 5 of last 12 years. KU 9 of 12

flyingfinn 10 years, 2 months ago

6 of 24 from the guards are not going to win a lot of games, but I liked the way we competed and didn't give up. Hate to lose to that sleazeball Calipari though. TRob has to play better and Releford needs to show up. We will improve!!!!!

Dennis Mahorney 10 years, 2 months ago

Dick Vital may someday be able to commentate a game, any game, without referencing North Carolina and Duke some point in the contest, but I doubt it.

haps 10 years, 2 months ago

My thoughts:

One: I don't get how people can say TT looked good. He consistently forced his way into the lane (good) but then threw up terrible shots. A number of times he should have drove and dished as he drew two and three defenders. Against young teams you can expect them to collapse to block which is why you dish, he never did. I've never seen anyone blocked that many times.

Two: We need to get TRob the ball more and yes, his reverse layups were bad, but he's our best player, he'll learn to handle double teams.

Three: Teahan, you are our 3 point shooter. Never, ever put the ball on the court unless it's to set yourself before a shot. You have rec league athleticism.

Four: Our offense was almost non-existent.

Five: I'm hoping things come together but I didn't see much last night that would induce optimism. We'll make the tourney as a 6 or 7 seed, IMO.

theend 10 years, 2 months ago

TT was told to drive in.......he did that. He was fouled almost 10 times. Pretty darn good.

So I guess you're a Division 1 B-Ball coach? You must be......seeing that you know far more than Coach Self.

haps 10 years, 2 months ago

stats don't tell the full story. He forced his way in a way that wasn't always beneficial to the team. Yes, he was told to drive but you can drive and be under control or you can drive and struggle. He did the latter and while he got a lot of free throws, he also shot under 30% with the majority of his shots coming from within 5 feet.

Chad Hallack 10 years, 2 months ago

We looked like what we are last night. A talented but inexperienced team with an athletic but shaky point guard and a soon to be superstar big who's still learning how to be THE guy with a short bench of athletic young bucks and a sharpshooter who's a liability on defense. No big shocker.

Keep in mind that we really don't play a game that matters in the whole scheme of things until after Christmas when conference season starts.

The recruiting complainers are silly. We've been hurt by questionable NCAA eligibility rulings, not a lack of recruiting. We have 3 really good players coming in next year that fit the system which is infinitely more important than the rankings on rivals. Only 3 schools in the current top 25 recruiting class rankings have won a national title in the last decade.

This team will be really good as the year goes on. I think Nadir Tharpe will prove to be a huge asset as well. I also think Elijah will step up and be a more consistent offensive threat than Taylor who is still way too careless with the ball and telegraph's his passes for the sake of style points.

Don't over-react, this KU team will be really good in time and it's a long, long time until March.

1jhawk2 10 years, 2 months ago

Jeff Withey, I am sorry for saying you were weak and would get eaten alive by UK big men. You impressed me more than anyone else last night based on expecatations. I am still not ready to buy a No. 5 jersey, but you showed some intensity and desire I didn't think you had.

Not everyone likes Dicky V, but his comment about this being KU's least athletic team in the last 10 years was evident last night. Bill didn't get out coached as much as he got out recruited. I know we can't get everyone, but at KU, it seems realistic you should be able to get 1 top 15 guy.

Coach Self, can you please take the set out of the playbook that has our wings driving the bucket and then trying to pass to the perimeter from under the bucket?

Seriously, Teahan had no business being on the court. He would be an all conference player with Washburn (nice 2 triples). Not enough to hang withe skill/ability of that particular opponent. Some defense/rebounding would have helped a lot.

Releford forgot his game in his dorm room or on the plane. Either way, I hope that was his worst game of the season.

Robinson is good and will be better as he learns to play with being the focal point of an opposing defense. He was clearly trying to do too much last night. Don't showcase for the NBA, just play and that will take care of itself as you are that good.

Taylor, I know you got fouled driving to the hoop in the 2nd half and great job hitting FT's. You still play like an out of control sophmore at times. Don't try to do too much (maybe you had to since you didn't have much help last night). I learned in the first half that we weren't going to get many uncontested shots in the paint, I am surprised we didn't spread it out more and try to run more hi-lo. It worked one time with Withey passing to Robinson.

Tharpe, Wesley and Young were deer staring into headlights. I expected that from Wesley and Young. Tharpe just aged a few months from last night because of his basketball IQ and raw ability. I predict he will be an impact player for us this year and you will see it in Maui because....

The biggest disappointment in my opinion is no doubt the 5 star junior Elijah Johson. I thought Releford left his game at home. Dude, do you have any game? Where was your athleticism on perimeter defense? I think my expecations were/are way to high for Johnson. As much as I hate to say it, his performance last night made me see how valuable Morningstar really was. Sorry Brady that I didn't give enough credit during your career.

Rock Chalk!

theend 10 years, 2 months ago

Agree about Withey.....he was a nice surprise. But overall I think you're too critical of everyone. It was just their 2nd official game. And as far as recruiting goes......yes it wasn't so great but we are due to have an off year. Buy look at next year's recruits......pretty darn good.

If you were to post this exact type of comment in a few months.......I would certainly agree with you. But give them time. They are going to improve so much.

Steve Brown 10 years, 2 months ago

1jh2 nice mostly on point. Jeff, I am sorry for saying you were weak: ditto Teahan had no business being on the court. maybe, how about zone a little. who else hits from trey at 80%. Releford forgot his game. He thinks a starter has to be more than he is, just relax and ball Travis, geez dude, quit overthinking, and forget shooting bricks stay on your man on D.

Taylor, You still play like an out of control sophmore at times. Ditto reminds me of SC out of control, threw it away when Jeff had the lob open....weak in mindset.

We have some guns if we learn a team can do a lot, a bunch of individuals can do little except vs. Div 1A teams. Love to see Butler or that Cornell or N. Iowa play us today, an even better learning lesson.

jgkojak 10 years, 2 months ago

You know what I would do?

I'd make this my starting line-up: Taylor Tharpe Johnson Robinson Wesley

Sub in this order: Releford Withey Young Teahan

Ben Simonett 10 years, 2 months ago

My thoughts from the game:

1) HEM already covered it:

Talent(UK) > Experience(KU). obviosly experienced talent(UNC) > ALL

The experienced team had the better coach which kept them closer than it should have been. but in basketball, more than any other sport, talent is everything. its sad to think of the talent level this program is going to be putting on the floor the next 2-3 years.

2) Can we all agree 2 games was a little too early to anoint Tharpe the next Aaron Miles? he'll be a good player eventually. But the poor kid looked like a deere in the headlights last night. which is normal for a freshman

3) Im still waiting for Tyshawn to show that "vast improvement" everyone said he was going to make over the summer.....again

He still cant finish at the rim! wheres that pull up short range jumper people were telling me he added to his game? I swear if i saw him have to pull back on the offense-initiating pass, only to be left 30 ft from the basketball with no dribble and a defender in his face one more time last night i was going to break something.

4)T Rob better get use to last night, thats the type of defense he's going to see the rest of the season. UK was so focused on him I thought Self had an opportunity for some easy buckets if he pulled T Rob(and half of UKs defense) to the high post and ran the Hi-Lo to with Withey(and very little D) down low.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 2 months ago

Don't fret everyone! From what I understand, there was a team in '88 that won it all with a bench full of football players and 11 losses in the regular season.

Bville Hawk 10 years, 2 months ago

"bench full of football players" and the #1 player in the NBA draft (you forgot that last part)

Trey Hohman 10 years, 2 months ago

wish we had Ben McLemore eligible this year. nobody on ku is going to have an easy time dictating their spots and getting their own shots.

Joe Baker 10 years, 2 months ago

Good grief Jayhawk Nation, lighten up. It's just one early loss. Let's worry about KU and let uk worry about their own program. It will all be revealed in due time. Sooner or later the horse pucky will hit the fan in Lexington and when it does, there's going to be a lot of explaining to do. They have to post on our board for validation and affirmation. They are our step-child through Adolf Rupp.

We will only get better from here like most teams. Bill Self is still the head coach and our players are fine. We are better than most team in the country and our players will learn soon.

Kenny Nall 10 years, 2 months ago

There is losing badly and then there are just losses. This game was very much the latter. Actually, Self will positively spin this loss better than in any way Calipari could try and augment the win.

BillSelf4Prez 10 years, 2 months ago

i wish Kansas could pay its players. Come on Boosters start donating money for the Pay the Players Fund!!!! And how long until Calipari is run out of Kentucky with violations??

skijamin 10 years, 2 months ago

Seriously, I don't know if KU was intimidated in the second half or if they were just frightened by that monobrow. Either way, they lost focus and stopped playing as a team. We showed in the early part of the first half that we can play with anyone, however. Just need to keep it up for 40 minutes and we'll be fine.

Kenny Nall 10 years, 2 months ago

The team forgot how to run their offense and stopped playing their game after the first ten minutes and let Kentucky do their thing. Plus, despite Thomas and Tyshawn having decent games it was a bit disappointing that they couldn't pull the team back into the game. Credit the 'Kats for bringing the intensity all game though.

142466 10 years, 2 months ago

Ever since it was announced that league play would be a full round robbin, 18 game, schedule; I've been pondering two things. 1. Would we have won 8 straight titles if the format had been a full round robbin all 8 years? 2.How many losses will this season's champ have?

As to the first question, I think we would have won or shared all 8. Because KU probably has the biggest home court advantage in the league and enjoyed high talent level all 8 years. Eight straight. That puts Self in very select company. I haven't googled it, but my guess is that among the top 25 programs of all time, only Self, Wooden, and Rupp accomplished that.

Now this year is somewhat of a rebuilding year. Inevitable, once in a while-too much uncertainty and juggling caused by guys leaving early for the NBA.

One of the posters today said he doesn't like the NBA product but still enjoys NCAA BB because it's more unpredictable, unpretentous, emotional, and innocent. Well, speaking only for myself, as an old man, I've got to say that the quality of NCAA BB has markedly declined ever since the day that most of the great players, and some not so great, started leaving college early. The quality of the NCAA product is suffering. And I don't like it.

The top NCAA teams of the 60's and 70's, and well into the 80's were beauties, works of art annealed by master sculptors. The greatest NCAA champion teams of that era were still remembered long after their final ascent to the summit. Back then you saw guys like Jerry West, Oscar O., Jabbar, Walton, David Thompson, Manning, and many more, develop from raw sophomores into absolutely dominating college talents. Those days are gone with the wind.

The aspect of the game that has suffered the most is outside shooting. Witness that pathetic March 2011 Championship Game.

The answer to my second question will be revealed in the next few months. My prediction is that the Champ will have 13 wins and 5 losses. KU will finish tied for second. That is OK once in a while. Some of Roy's teams did no better in league play.

Jeeveshawk 10 years, 2 months ago

I think that this loss will be good for us in the long run. Now we are free from the pressure of playing to stay undefeated and it will keep KU away from its arch-rival: a #1 ranking. Also, Bill Self and our veteran players will have more of a will to win shortly after losing. The biggest part is that it will bring our team together, and having a real team is better than having talent that runs amuck. Some may try to argue that that is false because of UK beating KU. But this is because neither the hawks nor the cats have molded into a team yet, so it came down to UK's talent. If we played them later in the year I would put my money on KU over UK. The bringing of our team together may give us a shot against Duke if (not that its a big if, I think that there is a 70% chance of meeting Duke in the finals) we play them. RCJH!

Kristen Downing 10 years, 2 months ago

Several more losses to come. Georgetown was tough against China. They will be physical. We have no shot against Ohio State. They have a point guard with a brain. Finally, I watched a very athletic Long Beach State beat number 9 Pitt State tonight and we will lose to them, unless Self realizes he has to play the zone against more athletically gifted teams. 49'ers wiil beat us by 10.

Hawktacular 10 years, 2 months ago

Just my thoughts...

I cannot remember the last time I watched Kansas play and walked away knowing the opponent was a better basketball team. VCU wasn't a better team. Nor wasTexas in AFH last year. UNI? Nope. MSU probably was a better team, but we gave that Sweet 16 game away. There may have been a game or two in 2008-2009, but I can't pull them from memory. Georgia Tech in the Elite 8 was a better team, but we had every opportunity to beat them. This is very unfamiliar territory I believe we are entering in 2011.

We played as I expected we would play last night. We were nervous and timid under the bright lights, but we played with pride and didn't let the game get out of hand. We could have lost by 30 in the second half alone.

We do not have the talent or offensive ability to compete for the 2011 National Championship. While I entered the season fully acknowledging this would be a "down" year, I held on to a glimmer of hope that we would surprise. While we will develop, I do not believe our ceiling is high enough to win it all and that is ok, but unfamiliar.

Who annointed Thomas Robinson? Love the guy. Love the player. Love it all. He hasn't proven he can carry the load. I very badly want him to succeed. I think he will, but that we must temper expectations.

Kentucky is stupid talented, stupid long, and, well, I think they're stupid too, but I'll leave that alone... They are capable of embarrasing good teams and though I believe they will lose a number of games due to their inexperience, I also believe they will blow some very good teams away. I won't let the tie at half fool me. That first half was all about what Kentucky did to Kentucky, not what Kansas did to Kentucky.

I do believe we will win the Big XII. Thankfully, we do not have a Kentucky in the Big XII. Baylor is an underachiever. That hasn't magically changed in the last 8 months. No team in the Big XII will grind it out better than will Bill Self and Kansas. I believe we will win our 8th in a row.

That said, I am not "in this" for Big XII Championships and I suspect many of you join in that sentiment. I am concerned with the big picture as it stands. When do we get that next shot at a title? I do not see the infrastructure for this to happen any time soon. This makes the VCU and UNI upsets that much more difficult to swallow. We needed one to come out of the last two years.

Hawktacular 10 years, 2 months ago

I would donate my left one to hear Bill Self candidly discuss current and recent recruiting. My questions to him would be direct: Why are we struggling to land top 50 recruits? Why does it seem the majority of our top recruits lately have come our way in a "sloppy seconds" fashion (Morris Twins, Xavier, Selby)? Would you have been able to land P. Ellis had he not been from Kansas? You clearly will not change your approach to chase the one and done's at all costs; will you change to chase the two and done's if the rule changes? Do you see the significant problem that arises when this talent (that is not landing in Lawrence) is now forced to stay another year?

My prediction for Maui: beat Georgetown, beat UCLA, get taken to the woodshed by Duke. I would sign on the dotted line for this outcome, just give me a pen.

As I review this before I post I can see the general negativity. I'd prefer to be blindly optomistic, but never have been able to make myself succomb. All things considered I will conclude with only positive observations/opinions:

Withey looked capable last night. So did Wesley. Tyshawn made free throws. We will improve and compete.

Rock Chalk

Kenny Nall 10 years, 2 months ago

I'll never put blind faith into a man who just coaches the game of basketball but Self is undoubtedly smarter than most anyone in the business. Plus, don't tell me 2008 has already faded from ANY Jayhawk's fan memory where we beat a team coached by a man who shares some of your same views?

Much rather have a well-balanced recruiting approach than one that is focused on over-hyped talent.

KULA 10 years, 2 months ago

KU ought to be playing through Tyshawn. He's obviously the best player on the team. Our bigs aren't good enough to make that Okie offense work against top tier teams. They looked their best when they were reacting to Tyshawn's drives.

Need better shooting from EJ. Pretty sad state of affairs that your sixth man is Conner. Not to knock him, he is what he is. Just a bummer that that's as good as our depth is.

Bummer to see players that we recruited in UK uniforms, like Lamb & Jones. What happened Bill? Did you tell 'em they probably wouldn't see much playing time their first year? I suppose that would account for Jones' scowl. I wonder if he told Bill, "Watch this."

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