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Monday, November 14, 2011

KU football players stand up for coach

Kansas head coach Turner Gill pleads for an interference call against Baylor after a pass to KU receiver JaCorey Shepherd during KU's last drive of regulation Saturday, Nov. 12, 2011 at Kivisto Field.

Kansas head coach Turner Gill pleads for an interference call against Baylor after a pass to KU receiver JaCorey Shepherd during KU's last drive of regulation Saturday, Nov. 12, 2011 at Kivisto Field.

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With the losses mounting and the embarrassment escalating, even Kansas University football players are starting to realize that coach Turner Gill’s future at KU may be in jeopardy.

Instead of getting angry about it, as many have done during the past few weeks, several players have shifted gears and begun lobbying for their leader.

“We’re fighting so hard for him and for what people say about him and his job security,” senior linebacker Steven Johnson said after Saturday’s 31-30, overtime loss to Baylor. “I really think he should stay here for a long time. He’s a good coach, and we’re just on the brink. We’re fighting. We’re fighting. We’re close, and as soon as we get that win, I’m pretty sure everything’s gonna turn around.”

Asked Sunday night if he appreciated his players going to bat for him, Gill deflected the spotlight from himself.

“It’s not about me,” Gill said. “It’s really about them. It’s about our program. However they want to do things to continue to have them work hard for our football program.”

Gill, who arrived at KU in December of 2009 with a 20-30 record in four seasons at the University at Buffalo, has won just five times at Kansas in nearly half as many tries. Only one of those victories — last year’s wild 52-45, comeback victory against Colorado — came in Big 12 Conference play, and 14 of the 17 losses have been to league foes.

While so many of Gill’s losses have been blowouts, there have been a few like Saturday’s, of which KU had complete control for three quarters, only to watch it fall apart in the fourth quarter and overtime.

The Jayhawks continue to praise Gill’s approach.

“Coach Gill is very consistent, and he’s a great coach,” senior lineman Jeff Spikes said. “He coaches that you gotta come out and work every day, regardless of what the situation is. Regardless of what happens, you gotta keep your head up.”

Although Gill has struggled to instill a winning attitude in this team, he has succeeded in getting his players to follow his popular “Believe” mission statement. Week after week, blowout after blowout, the Jayhawks have bounced back with a positivity. Still, several Jayhawks said they couldn’t help but think about what will become of the coach who taught them to do that.

“It’s on our minds a little bit,” Johnson said. “We try not to worry about it, but, at the same time, it’s difficult going through a coaching transition because we’ve created friendships and bonds with all these coaches, and when we never win, it’s hard. And in games like this, where we should’ve had a win, that’s even more difficult. It just hurts. But I just hope that we continue to give coach Gill a shot because he’s a good coach, and I’m pretty sure this program will turn around.”

Added Spikes: “Our job is not done. We will not lay down and give up or quit. We won’t. Regardless of losses or records or how much we score or don’t score, we’re gonna come back every day. And that’s all you can ask for.”

Comments

kusportsdotcom 2 years, 11 months ago

Boys, the best way to fight for your coach is to win a ball game.

I like Steven Johnson a lot. But his comment that Gill "should stay here for a long time" makes me cringe.

hawk316 2 years, 11 months ago

kusports...Gill should stay here for a long time. Why?

Gill inspires people around him, both players and coaches. He inspires talented young people to want to come and play for him (recruiting) and to keep working and competing hard even against huge odds. He inspires other talented and accomplished coaches to want to work with him. This will eventually pay off big time if we stay the course.

It is critical that the administration and the fan base not become shortsighted because they demand results NOW. I understand completely how discouraging it is to lose week after week, sometimes in heartbreaking fashion. But I believe this will turn around if we are patient.

Gill is not a perfect coach by any means, but he possesses some very unique qualities that can result in a winning program. We must be patient.

jhawkrulz 2 years, 11 months ago

Isn't this the coach that has 12 scholarships available this year, and has only filled like 7 of them and at least one has already backed out of their commitment? And of his recruiting isn't only 1 of them on defense? Yes all of you that think he is a Great Recruiter, why are the two best recruits that he has gotten never ended up on the practice field (okay BB practiced like twice).

See later posts about 2 years tells you a lot about a coach.

JohnEdwards70 2 years, 11 months ago

I agree 100 percent. It's ridiculous to fire a coach before any of his recruits are even juniors. Just ridiculous. We can fire Turner Gill, and then what? Bring in another relatively unknown DII coach or coordinator (be honest: no big-name coach will take this job at this point), who'll have to spend two more years bringing in recruits who will fit his system, while we have another year or two of futility on the field?

Maybe bring in some new coordinators, but give the head guy another season. See what he can do with his own kids.

Andy Hess 2 years, 11 months ago

Gill is a motivational speaker masquerading as a football coach. We might as well have Daniel "Rudy"' Ruettiger out there.

Maracas 2 years, 11 months ago

Gill is a joke. He went 20-30 in the MAC and got more than quadruple his salary to come to Kansas, guaranteed for five years. He needs to be run out of town at the first opportunity. He does not belong in D-1 BCS.

ryanzig 2 years, 11 months ago

thanks a lot for your post, Im always saying the same thing!

johnnyhrdwd 2 years, 11 months ago

KU takes an organized, highly motivated type to win. I saw Gill beat OU in 83 and truly wanted him to prove himself here. Hard to feel sad about 10 million for no results, players and Roy loved Terry Allen also.

John Percival 2 years, 11 months ago

Anyone who uses the 20-30 Buffalo argument needs to get their facts straight. TG took that program form 1980s K-State level to a conference championship. They are 2-8 this year. He may fail here, but didn't there.

kansaspike 2 years, 11 months ago

If I did my job half as bad as gill does his...I wouldnt get even a second year to prove it like him. It's time for the discussion to focus on the replacement.

After this debacle, clearly we want a proven winner.

Andy Tweedy 2 years, 11 months ago

That may be true, but most of us aren't put into positions where our job performance is largely determined by people who we did not hire or pick to work for us. Sure, middle level management are sometimes given teams of underachievers, but the vast majority of us are simply individual contributors who are able to define ourselves by what we are able to do and not by those we rely on to execute our plan. I'm not saying Gill absolutely is the guy at KU, but it is very hard to compare what most of us do on a daily basis to being head coach of a Big XII football team.

Mike Anderson 2 years, 11 months ago

If your job was as hard as his I'm sure the expecations would be different.

As far as a proven winner - this is KU. This is a school known for basketball not football. The only way to find a winner is someone like Gill where the fans will realize he has little to work with and it will take him time. Go look for yourself at Mangino's last two years of recruiting and who is left. Then explain why KU ought to compete with OU, TX, OSU, GTech, Baylor, etc.

mahkmood 2 years, 11 months ago

Maybe Gill can "stay around for a long time" as the team counselor, chaplain, and recruiter. It doesn't seem anyone has personal issues with Gill. And if Gill is (hypothetically) going to bring in better recruits than Mangino - make him a recruiting coordinator, not a head coach. Bring back Mangino, or bring in Leach, and "promote" Gill to team recruiting coordinator and chaplain. The players will learn how to be competitive again under Mangino or Leach, and can go to Gill to get counseling and spiritual guidance after the boot-camp practices. As an added bonus, maybe Gill's presence would result in Mangino's and Leach's personal "salvation"... haha

Jeffery Barrett 2 years, 11 months ago

Both Mangino and Leach ended their last coaching jobs like a train wreck. End of story. Please stop bringing up these two names. I'm getting exhausted reading these posts with their names in them. Please.

lawrence_is_my_middle_name 2 years, 11 months ago

Except both firings were probably witch hunts started for political reasons. What did Leach allegedly do, make a kid (who happened to be pissed off about lack of game time) stand in a closet? Big deal. And Mangino, poked a kid in the chest? Are you kidding me? Grow a pair. These are non issues.

FightnMangino64 2 years, 11 months ago

Bear crawls across the field were part of the work out, I did them too. I got blisters too, that is not mistreatment. The strongest steel goes through the hottest fire. The brown paper bag comments were to the team in general every yr when he would tell us he expected us to work hard and to the best of our abilities. These "mistreatments" really were non issues. College football is hard or else everryone would do it.

FightnMangino64 2 years, 11 months ago

Bear crawls across the field were part of the work out, I did them too. I got blisters too, that is not mistreatment. The strongest steel goes through the hottest fire. The brown paper bag comments were to the team in general every yr when he would tell us he expected us to work hard and to the best of our abilities. These "mistreatments" really were non issues. College football is hard or else everryone would do it.

Ben Kliewer 2 years, 11 months ago

I did bear crawls across the field when I played college ball, and I didn't play for Mangino. They're a pretty standard technique among coaches. Coach made us do cross field bear crawls on, god forbid, hot astroturf, the same surface we played on, for LOEs, or lack of efforts. If we didn't run to the end of a play in a game, that was a lack of effort. (I only had to do it once) The sport is called football. It is hard and violent. If you're a wiener, don't play it.

NebraskaJayhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Wow....can't dispute that SGTJB123. Two guys that played college football and one under Mangino claiming that what he got fired for is typical across all of college football. There you have it. That's why there are those of us still outraged about that witch-hunt.

Ben Kliewer 2 years, 11 months ago

I'm not going to bag on Gill as a person. I really do like the guy. I think he's a genuinely good guy, and I'm sure the players like him too. But he's not a football coach. He doesn't know how to coach a football team properly, and that is the job he was hired to do.

I'm sure the players like the guy, and they're fighting for him. But when you've been coached into a system and a philosophy that's just not going to work at the BCS Conference level, you can fight as hard as you want and you're still not going to succeed. The program is beyond "getting that one win" to turn everything around. Gill is gone. That's a fact. The reality remains that, unlike many posters on this website, there are many alumni who will not sit idly by and allow a coach, who has proven he cannot run a football team, continue to degrade the quality of the program. The alumni have spoken by opening their pocket books and saying "get him out."

That is a fact, it is clear at this point. You can give Turner Gill all the time in the world to "turn this program around" and in doing so you would settle for an average of sub .500 seasons for as long as he is coach. To settle for that is to spit in the face of the University of Kansas as a school which harbors intercollegiate athletics. It is unacceptable, and will not be tolerated at any institution with self respect. To continue to accept and even encourage some of what Gill has brought to the program (emphasis on some) is to be content with mediocrity, or even less.

To get players to believe in themselves is great, and I'm all for it. And bouncing back positively after blowout losses is just fantastic. But it takes much more than a smile on your face and a ray of sunshine in your pocket to field a competitive team at the BCS level. There is not one coach out there who is going to tell his players not to believe in themselves, or that they should just give up, or that they shouldn't think positively. Gill is not unique or special in this way. And, if there is anything we've learned over the last two years it is that the business of college football is exactly that; business. If your business isn't producing, you need to develop a new business model. It is in the best interest of KU Athletics as a business to make some changes to the football program. It's nothing personal...it's business.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Mike Anderson 2 years, 11 months ago

First off there are 100s of ways to coach. To say one is better than another is a joke.

Second you have to have some talent to compete. That KU does not have - sorry but with 18 left out of Mangino's 48 last recruited players on the team and these not being the top quality you need ... one needs to see the trees for the forest.

Yes college football is a business. And unfortuantely KU is not a football school, therefore to attract a top coach to part the red sea and make a winning team out of what KU has ... isn't going to happen. KU will be mired in mudd if they don't give Gill 4 years and I believe he will win.

Ben Kliewer 2 years, 11 months ago

Sentence by sentence breakdown.

"To say one is better than another is a joke" Are you serious? You're saying that all methods of coaching are equally as good as the other? That there is no such thing as a bad football coach? You're the one's who's got to be joking.

Regardless of what kind of talent we have, a better coach would be able to get it out of them. Mangino had a knack for that because he came out of Snyder's system. Gill brought in the second highest rated recruiting class in the last decade and the cupboard was not bare by any means before that. A different coach would've had two way better seasons by this time. At least more competitive.

KU is not a football school, you're right. But we were in a WAY better position from a football perspective after Mangino was booted than where we were when he came in. Was Mangino a so-called "top coach" when he came in? No! And what did he do? As you say, he "parted the red sea" and made a winning team. If Mangino, or another comparable coach (IE, somebody who knows what they're doing) stepped into the program today with his own coaching staff, you would see these same players winning next year where Gill would have them lose. You would've seen that this year under a different coach.

Each paragraph in your post is flawed. KU will be mired in "mudd," and also mired in mud if they DO give Gill 4 years. In which case, I know he would not be able to win.

Nic Andrews 2 years, 11 months ago

Yes, 100 ways to coach, and many of those ways better than Gill's approach. You're right, you have to have some talent. And guess what, we have some talent. Enough to have more than 1 conference win in 2 years. Enough to have more than 2 wins on the season. Bring in some good coaches, the ones that coach one of the 100 ways that actually works, and the upside of these players and their development and add in better schemes and better preparation (better coaching before and during the game), we'd be sitting at more wins. It's just that simple. Even this year, we should have 4 or 5 wins. No good reason why we did not beat Texas Tech or Iowa St. And no good reason why we have gotten blown out of games the last 2 years. Gill has to go. Doesn't take 4 years to realize someone can't coach or succeed on this level. The last 2 years have been proof enough.

jhawkrulz 2 years, 11 months ago

Did SZ issue a statement after another "coaching" loss?

danmoore 2 years, 11 months ago

Mizwho’s departure cannot come soon enough. The level of decorum will improve exponentially after they leave.

jhox 2 years, 11 months ago

Too bad he couldn't pick up a couple more wins this year, and be a little more competitive in several of the games. I would have loved to have seen what he could do with one more strong recruiting class. Unfortunately, even if he did survive to coach one more year, he would have a difficult time recruiting next year's freshman class with cloud hanging over the program, and over his job security. I've heard the money is already in place to buy him out. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I don't see how he survives unless by some miracle we win the next two games (not going to happen.)

One thing I would definitely do is retain a couple of his top recruiters. I would not buy out the strong recruiter's contracts. I would hold them to those contracts, and buy out everyone else (Long included.)

jhawk613 2 years, 11 months ago

Gill leaves, Mitchell and Grimes leave (the 2 best position coaches).

Jim Jackson 2 years, 11 months ago

I love my Jayhawkers and so this has to be a tough decision on everyone.

Gill is a great man, there is no doubt about that and yes, this is about winning. He was hired to win. That being said, Mangina really did not have that great a talent for him to inherit. How many 4 star Running Backs did he bring in in 7 years? 1, that clown from a JUCO who said he would run for 2000 yds and ran for 200 instead. Gill has brought in 3 in 2 seasons. Clearly, the man can recruit. If he can get us competitive in these last 2 games he should be able to stick around for one more year. As he has one for the youngest teams in the NCAAs. The team will get an extra year to work on strength, size, speed and agility. Pete Carrol was a laid back players coach and look what he did. Then again he had 5 star players on his team. Turner can recruit, give 'em one more shot and we go bowling next year.

Word

ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 11 months ago

Rivals top 50 recruiting class for 2012:

Kansas-unranked

Recruit 'em up Turner!

Cmill1221 2 years, 11 months ago

That for the most part sums up the recruiting debate.

boknowssports 2 years, 11 months ago

glad you came to your senses apher, after that post of yours about keeping Gill so we could have a track, I was ready to bail on your fan club....lol

lawrence_is_my_middle_name 2 years, 11 months ago

Who cares what a player is rated? Ratings out of high school mean close to nothing. What was Todd Reesing's "star" rating? Just checked, it was 3-stars. And oh my God, check out Anthony Collins' and Aqib Talib's ratings. Both were 2-star recruits, and now both are NFL starters. Marcus Henry was also a 2-star recruit, and turned into our leading receiver on the Orange Bowl team.

Mangino had a great eye to pick up talented players no one else wanted, as well as the coaching staff in place to turn them into fundamentally sound players. And that's what recruiting is about, not how many stars some football nerd rates a player out of high school.

Jim Jackson 2 years, 11 months ago

I hate to rain on your parade buddy, but Collins and Talib are 2 of 130+ players Mangina recruited most of whom were 2 or 3 star guys. There's a reason why Bama and OU etc are prennial powers. They recruit kids who have the physical alltributes that are superior to others, hence their 4 or 5 star ratings.

danmoore 2 years, 11 months ago

We won't get the 4 and 5 stars and we won't know how well the 2 and 3 stars are until they are juniors and seniors.

Dirk Medema 2 years, 11 months ago

Note that Marcus did very little until his SENIOR year, and Talib and Collins both redshirted before doing anything. That means they produced nothing in the time that Gill has had to develop his players.

jhawkrulz 2 years, 11 months ago

Tobem Operum was a poorly recruited Running Back that turned down offers from the likes of Notre Dame....

Anyways, Gill can't even fulfill 15 scholarships this year and kids are starting to walk away (decommitt).

texashawk10 2 years, 11 months ago

How many times did Mangino have a full class prior to the spring?

Dirk Medema 2 years, 11 months ago

kid - there has been one player that chose to go elsewhere. Very few teams have full classes prior to Jan/Feb.

bville_hawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Pete Carrol had more talent than he knew what to do with. Did Matt Cassell ever even play? I've heard that Clay Matthews didn't play until he was a 5th year senior. Carrol should probably be faulted for not being more successful than he was.

Funhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

I hate to bag on the players because any who get a scholarship offer from KU and became a Jayhawk are number one in my book. Realize that if the player on the field is not a true freshman, that player was not brought to KU by Coach Gill. The players brought to KU by Mangino are not Big XII caliber players. Most did not receive scholarship offers from any other Big XII schools. If any of our players did, it was usually from Iowa State or Baylor, thus we could compete against Iowa State and Baylor this year. Don't fans realize you can coach up players all you want, but you can't change genes.

bjejayhawk69 2 years, 11 months ago

"Coach up" players is one of the problems. Mangino won an Orange bowl with players who were "coached up" - Resing, Talib, Briscoe etc were not 4 star recruits. That is the difference. All the positive talks aren't going to make a player better - it is hard off season work, film work, game preparation, in game adjustments and proper schemes that will help make players successful and the team successful. I don't see any of that with this current team and that all falls to Gill. I would love to see Gill succeed but there not even a glimmer of evidence to show that is being done and if it is extremely inconsistent.

Mike Anderson 2 years, 11 months ago

There was more to that season than Mangino. He just happened to get luck with a set of guys who had heart. He also put in an offensive scheme that at that time confused the crap out of defenses. Not sure if he had the same group today if it would work.

Nick Cole 2 years, 11 months ago

I'm so sick of this argument. Take a clue from the Old Dude down the road. Bring in some JuCo players if you need some more experience and leadership on the team. It has seemed to work out pretty well for him. Only recruiting HS kids is not excuse for lack of experience when there are other options out there that he hasn't used.

coach43 2 years, 11 months ago

finally, someone with a relevant comment... thank you!

Mike Anderson 2 years, 11 months ago

There is a reason those guys are at JUCO ... not as easy as it sounds. Nor are they always have the character you want them to have ...

Nic Andrews 2 years, 11 months ago

'Coach up players' ---that is the entire point, right?! Especially at KU. Coach, teach, prepare, scheme, adjust. Or what are they there for? There are a lot of teams out there and coaches who have proven it doesn't take oustanding talent to win some football games. and there are some with outstanding talent (Texas) who still are underperforming. More than 1 conference win in 2 years for KU really shouldn't be too much to ask. More than 2 wins this year really should be okay to expect. And getting blown out in the manner in which KU has should be unacceptable.

ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 11 months ago

Think you guys should look at Baylors schedule and see who they play this week. I guarantee you they did not watch a lick of ku film. Instead they prepared for this weeks game. Combine that with a 97 mph wind and you get a close game.

And I'm so tired of Steven Johnson's supporting of Gill. I would guess that somewhere on SJ's body is an "I heart Turner" tattoo that he got with the rest of you in '09. Dude thinks he is the man because he is the leading tackler on a poor team that can't tackle anyone for a loss or get a stop. It's like scoring 20 points a game in hoops playing for Texas Tech and you shoot 40 times, means nothing.

And why is UT -9.5 against KSU? Free Money!

And guess which Coach has his team set up as the biggest underdog this week (t33)? Ok, it's whoever coaches CSU, but Turner has the second highest point spread at t30. Coach 'em up Turner!

FSUJHAWK 2 years, 11 months ago

The players will carry HCTG on their shoulders off the field on 11/26/11...mark my words!

RCJHGKU!!!

nuleafjhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

How FAR will they carry him?

All the way out of Lawrence, I hope.

Nick Cole 2 years, 11 months ago

It saddens me that when KU was up 24-3 in the fourth quarter, I fully expected Baylor to come back and win. That is how little faith and confidence I have in this coaching staff to put the players in the proper position to win the game consistently through 4 quarters. Low and behold, they proved me right. Sure players dropped passes. Sure there were some really bad calls (and I have yet to hear any refs come out and apologize that they made the wrong call). Sure there were missed tackles. But the coaches call the plays and the players run them. When the coaches are not calling the right plays at crucial times in a game, it doesn't matter how good the players are, it's a recipe for another pathetic loss.

shelleysue 2 years, 11 months ago

My words at the start of the 4th quarter? We're only up by 21. Because I knew what was probably coming. It was a good game though, and I enjoyed it even if I didn't like the outcome.

Nick Cole 2 years, 11 months ago

Very fun game to watch, but just sad that we both (as well as a lot of other fans I'm sure) felt the same way. If only we made that 2 pt. conversion in OT, we may be having a different conversation this week. Another IF.

Dirk Medema 2 years, 11 months ago

De Ja Vu of 2006 when MM's teams did it over and over again.

justinryman 2 years, 11 months ago

I was looking at this article thinking it would be freshman and sophomores talking about Gill, but these were seniors.

Guys Gill didn't recruit, guys Gill has only know for a little while, he didn't spend any time in their living rooms, just on the practice field and in meetings, and yet they have his back.

As some of you cringe, it makes me think this is a good thing, as they haven't quit on him yet.

Chris Bruning 2 years, 11 months ago

Great post! i agree 100%. Gotta give him more time and we will be winners. But sometimes i don't understand why i bother posting positive for gill, i mean we're talking about some pathetic fans who want Self gone if he doesn't pull in a top 3 recruiting class.....RCJH!!!!

Chris Bruning 2 years, 11 months ago

no, its not!!!!! you tards act like KU is a football powerhouse. Building one takes time, something you "idiots" need to realize.....

ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 11 months ago

Does SJ have a wikipedia page? Cause you might want to read it!

KUMC81Hawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Newbie here so don't be too rough. KU has shown improvement in the past two weeks. If we stay within 10 pts in the last two games, keep Gill for another year providing he finds another D coordinator. Our O is headed in the right direction. Here's something to think about. If our D could have provided just two more three and outs in each game, and our O could have scored just one more TD each game, we would have five wins and still be in the bowl picture. Also the blowouts don't look near so bad.

Nick Cole 2 years, 11 months ago

That's a lot of "ifs" that didn't happen.

Also, getting 300 yards and 21 points dropped on you in a single quarter is not improvement. We looked good against an unprepared and uninterested Baylor team for 3 quarters. Then they decided to show up of one quarter and that's all it took. Against ISU, all we had to do was stop them from running the ball up the gut at the end of the game and we have a chance to win, but we couldn't do it. Knowing what a team is going to do and still letting them do it is not called improvement. Not being able to drive the ball at the end of the game the last two weeks is not improvement. Did we look better than in our blowouts, naturally. But that doesn't mean we have improved.

Sorry if I was too rough.

lawrence_is_my_middle_name 2 years, 11 months ago

That's not what I saw. I saw our guys finally playing some bump-n-run, high pressure, man-to-man defense. We were starting our plays with our corners pressed right up into their receivers, and it was working to perfection for 3 quarters. Then the 4th quarter came and we went into our shell of a zone defense, trying to "protect the lead" I'm sure. From then on out, three or four guys were wide open as you can be on every play. It was a change in scheme on defense, ordered by the coaching staff to switch away from what had worked for 3 quarters. This was not the players who lost this game, it was coaching, flat out!

Nick Cole 2 years, 11 months ago

I agree that it was all coaching that lost this game. I never said the players were the cause of the loss. I simply said that we haven't improved these last two weeks, just used some different schemes (took long enough to do that, yet it still hasn't shown results in the W/L column).

Bottom line is there are a multitude of reasons someone on here can point to as a reason for the loss these last two weeks. With so many errors and opportunity for improvement, I don't think you can justify stating that this team has improved. The day KU has a 21 point 4th quarter lead and I feel comfortable that we are going to win will be the day I claim we have improved. Even with the lead against Baylor, as stated above, I still had zero confidence in the coaches and players to win that game on Saturday.

KUMC81Hawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Not too rough, just factual. Comparing last years O to this years and we have improved. Comparing last years D to this years and we are much worse. The ISU and Baylor games were improvements over GT, OSU, OU, KSU, and TX. Does that mean we are a good team? No, but there is some improvement being shown. If that continues through the last two games then the AD needs to have a serious talk with Gill. Tell him to find a D-1 BCS caliber DC (Randy Shannon caliber) , and start winning next year or else. Otherwise fire Gill and go get Fulmer, Leach or Leavitt, Sumlin, or some current high power OC or DC.

Nick Cole 2 years, 11 months ago

ISU and Baylor were improvements in the sense of not being blown out, but all the same mistakes and weaknesses were still there. ISU and Baylor just aren't as good as most of those other teams.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I would like to see a comparison of last year's offensive numbers compared to this year. I don't think our O looks much better, if any, than last season. And remember, more points doesn't necessarily mean we are better. You have to still factor the situation of each game (which is hard to do).

KUMC81Hawk 2 years, 11 months ago

For the entire 2010 season 1942 yds passing, 57.5 comp %, 5.5 yds/A, 11TD, 14 INT, 106.1 rating, 470 rushes, 1616 yds, 3.4 ave, 13 TD. YTD 2011 season 1804 yds passing, 64.3 comp%, 7.16 yds/A, 15 TD, 9 INT, 136.9 rating, 450 rushes, 1784 yds, 4.0 ave, 19 TD With two games left to go, we are already improved in almost every offensive category.

jhawkrulz 2 years, 11 months ago

When you set the bar as low as possible, it is always easy to show improvement.

Nick Cole 2 years, 11 months ago

Thanks. The numbers are slightly better, but based on my own "eye test," it seemed that we had less trouble moving the ball last season during the core parts of the game. A number of our scores have come late in games this season when it was already out of hand. I do think Webb has improved this season to last, but not enough to make a difference. He simply isn't a B12 QB, just as TG is not a B12 HC. Hopefully next year both of these things will change. Add in some guys on D from a JuCo and we might be able to compete in some games. But that's asking a lot right now. and jhawkrulz is right below. Easy to improve when you set the bar so low. Here's to hoping we can at least help push mizzou out the door at the end of the season.

MorganR 2 years, 11 months ago

I would urge my fellow Rock Chalkers to defer to the players that have the most information and most at stake. Moreover, as their improved performances demonstrate, the players demonstrated they aren't giving up. If the players are behind coach Gill, that should be sufficient justification for us to support coach Gill.

There seems to be broad agreement that the team has made significant strides and could have - should have - won the last two games. Beyond the won - loss column, I understand that coach Gill is regarded as a good person, a person with integrity, and a concern for his players' education. While I appreciate the "economics" of winning, we should not casually disregard the importance of integrity and the educational mission of the university.

I have read bloggers suggest names of coaches that have lost their prior jobs because of unethical behavior, abusive conduct, and NCAA violations. As events at Penn State, Ohio State, and others demonstrate, some of these coaches seem to take the position they are not accountable to their university's administration. I would not want such a person as a symbol for MY / OUR university. Moreover, their won / loss records at other universities may not be an indicator of future success.

The players make a compelling argument in favor of honoring coach Gill 's contract - at least for one more year. I would prefer KU honor his contract as much for KU's integrity as well as a selling point in the event KU seeks to make a coaching change in football or any other sport.

Cody Stumma 2 years, 11 months ago

I wonder how many extra Snickers Candy bars Gill had to give to the players for them to say that?

brinkofdawn 2 years, 11 months ago

Yeah, let's bring in someone who will surely waste the one marginal strength this team has...its running backs. June Jones runs an extremely pass happy offense. He better bring a QB who can run his system with him, because we don't have any QBs on this roster that fit his mold.

I'm all for firing Gill, but let's be smart about who we bring in to replace him. Plus, I wouldn't consider Hawaii and SMU as big time programs. We've gotten burned twice now by bringing in a coach who wasn't ready for the Big 12. Anyone remember Terry Allen? I thought those days were behind us but Gill has us right back there again.

Lew dropped the ball on the Gill hire. I feel like he had his mind made up from day one that Gill was his man. I don't think he even really gave guys like Tuberville or Skip Holtz a fair look. Hopefully SZ does his homework and gets it right. Otherwise, we'll be having this same discussion again in 2013.

Steve Corder 2 years, 11 months ago

Just a little whisper...."bad call?".....when the game is tight going down the stretch and there's conference money on the line.....Baylor & bowl eligibility in this latest case....the call goes against the weak sister in football and basketball.

Hail_To_Thee 2 years, 11 months ago

Fortunately, the players are not the ones writing Gills paycheck.

I think we all understand the importance of the education these kids get and would all agree that that SHOULD be what matters. But greed is a part of every university, in every aspect, and that is unfortunately what makes the waggon role. When the alumni speak, you can bet your bottom dollar that the university listens. And I guarantee that the alumni are pretty much screaming right now.

Mat Davis 2 years, 11 months ago

KU doesn't have the capital to buy him out and then to pay another coach a comparable salary. For those that say that Coach Gill can't win because he's a nice guy haven't watched much football. There are plenty of good guy coaches who have been successful (Mack Brown, Mark Richt, Bobby Bowden, Tommy Tuberville, Frank Beamer). Having a raving lunatic on the sideline doesn't promise victories either. While the focus of criticism is on the defense, I think the bigger issue is at the QB position. We have 2 incoming Freshman and 1 RS Freshman, who are capable of doing things with their feet as well as their arms. With our stable of tailbacks, I really think a game changer of a QB will make a huge difference. To make defenses respect a dual threat guy creates considerable offensive flexibility. The best KU example is Bill Whittemore. He wasn't surrounded by a great deal of talent, but he found ways to win. Webb hasn't gotten it done and I look forward to the day someone else is under center.

Jim Jackson 2 years, 11 months ago

Gill needs to replace the D coordinator, then give em one more year! Go 'Hawks!

ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 11 months ago

And why wouldn't players not stand up for Gill. Easy practices, easy conditioning program, no accountability for your on field mistakes...

danmoore 2 years, 11 months ago

Really bad argument. If they wanted easy practices, etc. they wouldn't play football at all. They want to win and if they felt the problem was Gill they would not stand behind him

-1

Jim Jackson 2 years, 11 months ago

Then one thing I would agree with is that I think Turner and the staff should be more "in your face" coach's for players making mistakes(not to the extent of Mangino). I played ball and I think it really does make you more conscious. Then again, aren't we one of the least penalized teams in the league?

danmoore 2 years, 11 months ago

Just because he doesn't wear his emotions on his sleeve doesn't mean he's not holding the players accountable. None of us know what goes on in practice or how the assistants treat the players. Snyder is a mild mannered coach but two of his assistants were relieved of their duties for abusing players.

Dyrk Dugan 2 years, 11 months ago

he deserves another year. i will admit, i'm all over the place on this, but after watching us play live this weekend, and the ISU game on TV last weekend, i am now convinced no matter what happens in the next two games, he deserves another shot.

i can't stress this enough: he does not have his key people in place on the field and on the staff.

he lost his DC in June. had to promote somebody. and the scheme WAS changed...we're just now figuring it out. for three quarters we looked darn good on Saturday...yes, i now it's a four quarter game....but really, after RGIII just gashed MU for 700 yards, didn't you expect he'd garner 800 vs. us?

but the main thing is, he doesn't have his QB. Webb can't run...can't move. this offense NEEDS a moving QB....and we have no wideouts. Patterson got hurt...and that REALLY hurt the offense. Shepherd has had his moments...but we don't feature him at all. Jackson, Mundine and Omigie can't catch a ball....it's all very disorderly right now on offense.

He's still coaching the Mangino leftovers...some good football players, but you know his style is 180 degrees different than MMs. he deserves his guys, running his system...especially at QB. and next year, we'll see it.

the players still play hard...we really hit Baylor on Saturday...it was a good football game from Kansas's standpoint...until basically the last 5 minutes.

the only reason we change the coach now...and i mean the ONLY reason...is because SZ has the big name darn near agreed to a deal....and it HAS to be a name coach....(Urban Meyer to name one) or else we're just doing the same thing we've always done.....trying to find the RIGHT guy.

well, we have the right guy...right now. we don't have enough info. yet. he deserves another year at least....probably two. but i think we'll see the potential next year...especially with the right DC, a couple of new JUCO DTs, and his own quarterback.

danmoore 2 years, 11 months ago

I would replace Gill in a nanosecond if I thought we could lure a top notch coach but before we add him to a long list of failed head coaches, we might want to explore the culture of failure and mediocrity in our football program. Even though we’ve had some good teams and have been able to beat our rivals there is nothing in our history to suggest we can land a proven commodity. There is no reason for any coach to come here other than use us as a stepping stone which is exactly what every coach who was not fired has done. Fire Gill and in three to five years we’ll be talking about a new head coach.

This season has been the perfect storm. We lost our DC, we’ve had a brutal schedule and we have lots of underclassman. This would be trying times for any coach. As difficult as it is to defend him, improvement next year is within the realm of reasonable expectations. I don’t think we have much to lose in giving him another year just to see if it pays off.

n17987 2 years, 11 months ago

don't know if anybody reads this far down. i feel that Gill's hiring went outside the AD's office and straight up to our chancellor. Maybe there was a mandate that based on the actions highly publicized about Mangino that we were to hire a, "kinder gentler" football coach. Gill fit the mandate. Unfortunately, we all know too well that this probably won't produce a great football team. Tuberville maybe into the same hole as well having to follow Leach. From the AD's office down, a football coach needs to be hired. we should have the people in place that can bring KU Football back to a positive cash-flow generating and importantly a winning team. Let the chancellor get back to academics.

thelastjhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

I'm sure the players mean well, but they cannot see the forest through the trees. You can't take them seriously.

justinryman 2 years, 11 months ago

They are the ones who know him, they are the ones that are in meetings, at practice, in the huddles.

Us, we just watch TV, read the paper and spew comments on message boards.

Who else shall we listen to about Coach Gill? Ahpersecoachingexperience?

thelastjhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

You should make objective observations based on his peers and their success and failures. The players can't be objective. In fact, I would be pissed off at my players if they were even a bit objective. They, by definition, need to do what the coach says - trust him implicitly and without question. That is their job. If they do that, and still fail... then it is the coaches ass. That is what this is about. They do what he says and fail.

coach43 2 years, 11 months ago

It is not Coach Gill. (keep in mind, why he was hired, and what KU was looking for) The problems are, bad offensive coordinator, bad defensive scheme (do not have the personell to run the 3-4), and inexperience. As a player, you have to be able to do what you are coached to do, and make a play. They do not have very many playmakers. They have too many guys thinking that they are better than they really are,(cuz they from Texas)-showing youth and inexperience.... and don't do their job on defense, and it makes them look really bad. I guarantee KU is 4-5 if they run a 4-3 defense scheme. GUARANTEEEEED!

Andy Tweedy 2 years, 11 months ago

It never fails that someone has to stoop to bringing up race when a minority coach doesn't get the job done. So what if some people were upset because they felt he didn't get the job because he was black? Far more black coaches have not gotten the job because they weren't white. Leave race out of this.

thelastjhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Who cares what Barkley and Sharpton think? Quit listening to them and they will have not voice.

Jo Ann Ortgies Stork 2 years, 11 months ago

Do we really want to start this process all over again? How many of you have been in the stands watching the game---or just read the bylines? We have been there and seen the improvements in the team. Yes, we need to continue to improve. We are a young team--70% are either freshmen or sophomores. They are still making errors; however, they are improving. Remember what the spread was on the Baylor game. It was ugly and yet we lost in overtime.

You who are fans that chose not to be in the stands last Saturday for senior day must have forgotten that a few of the seniors played in the Orange Bowl. This was Senior Day--respect for all their accomplishments--not just this year but past years. Glad to see so few of you were there. Not proud of our fans.

Andy Tweedy 2 years, 11 months ago

I was there, and I agree with the comment about the fans. But I think it's more about the culture of football at KU. It sucks! Few care, and it only took one season of no Orange Bowls for the fans to start leaving at halftime again. While I'm having a hard time supporting this coaching staff, I agree 100% that a program needs stability and it may very well be better in the long term to give this staff another year to see what it can do.

Kansas1241 2 years, 11 months ago

You sir...are an absolute idiot!

If you don't see a problem with Gill then you have no football IQ whatsoever.

Andy Tweedy 2 years, 11 months ago

Maybe you should learn to read better. First off, I said even I am having trouble supporting this staff. And if you really, honestly feel you can prove your IQ in any way by name-calling, you really should re-evaluate your own place in life!

Kansas1241 2 years, 11 months ago

Having trouble supporting the staff? How could you ever support this staff? He brought a 20-30 record with him from the almighty and powerful Buffalo. He lost his first game to a Division II team. It's funny how it takes him this long to realize he should show a little enthusiasm on the sidelines instead of golf-clapping and continuing to think his team is improving. But that's okay because in the words of Turner Gill...we'll just have to get back to work and get ready for next week! What a joke.

danmoore 2 years, 11 months ago

Agree with rockchalk. There is something about our can't wait for basketball culture that is a contributing factor. It does no good to change the captain of a ship while ignoring the hole in the bow.

Kansas1241 2 years, 11 months ago

As a KU student I was there and rooting for Baylor. Gill and his staff are worse at coaching football than a 12-year-old girl. The Baylor loss is on one person...GILL! He got defensive in the 4th quarter and played not to lose. If he would have kept playing aggressively (like he did for the first time all season in the first 3 quarters) KU would have won. But instead he went to a prevent defense and alllowed Baylor to dominate the way everybody knew they would. The fans shouldn't support him and I'm proud the students don't. It's not about "believing" and "visualizing excellence". It's about winning football games and stomping on teams when you have them beat. Gill has always been too soft. Since he never cusses I'm curious what he was yelling after that interception. A real football coach would have used ever curse word in the book. Gill was probably saying something like "I don't agree with that call, but I'm glad you're trying your best!". Fire Gill and watch the support come back to this football team.

Funhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Cussing equals success? Ever hear of Tom Osborne or Tony Dungy? Good luck @&#!
in the working world after college.

Phoghorn 2 years, 11 months ago

Based on your comment, then you are a KU student, not a KU fan.

Kansas1241 2 years, 11 months ago

I haven't missed a home football or basketball game since I've been at this university and I'm a huge KU fan obviously. Sometimes you just have to realize that for this team to be successful in the future, they need to lose out the rest of this season to get Gill fired because his team has only gotten worse since this season began. It's too bad because our series with Mizzou is 55-55-9..sucks that it'll end up 55-56-9

Brak 2 years, 11 months ago

LoL the only obvious thing about your post is that you don't go to J-School and you haven't figured out how to use spell check.

Andy Tweedy 2 years, 11 months ago

Yeah, this dudes really making friends today!

bulofat 2 years, 11 months ago

as bad as this team is and everyone makes them out to be, we should be 5-5 (3-4 in Big 12) fighting for a bowl game if we had beaten Tech (up 20-0), Iowa St. (led or were within 3 all game), and Baylor (up 21 in 4th qtr.) Keep Gill one more year!

jayhawkfanforlife 2 years, 11 months ago

If we had pulled out even one of the three games that you mention, I would potentially agree but we didn't. In the TT game, it was over when we didn't score inside the 5 with about 8 minutes left. The final score that made it an 11 point loss was just window dressing. We couldn't even manage a first down on the final possession against ISU or stop them on their last drive that ran out the clock. The Baylor loss was the worst with so many mistakes; missed tackles, dropped passes, penalties, bad calls, etc. that allowed them to come back. I'd like for Gill to have at least another year because of the cost of the buyout and the pain of having 3 coaches in four years but progress is measured by wins. If we can't pull out at least one W in the last two games, I think that he's gone. I was at the Baylor game and based on attendance, the fan base doesn't believe.

Geekinout 2 years, 11 months ago

I understand trying to see the glass as half full, but from what I've witnessed it's the complete opposite. They truly find ways to lose, not a good sign for anything positive in the future from my stand point. Just from play calling and game management alone these coaches and players have demonstrated they are going the wrong direction as far as building a winning program. If we are going to dig up past games that we should've won, that first game against North Dakota St. last year set the entire mood, tone, attitude, etc. of what was to come for KU football. Absolutely nothing to look excited for!

boknowssports 2 years, 11 months ago

with gill next year, we would be looking at 3-9. at what point do the gill lovers say enough is enough. 3-9, 2-10, 3-9...is that what you really want???

Calijhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Most of the people posting probably have never put on a pad in their life, let alone a Crimson and Blue one. I have. Take it from a defensive guy who survived the Bud Moore era...the source of most of the defensive problems is the untimely loss of a well-respected defensive coordinator...too late to hire a D-1 level replacement. We had to promote Vic Shealy – who wasn't hired to run a defense, and didn't sign up to do so. If he were more honest than optomistic, Shealy probably doesn't like being in this position any more than we like him there. Gill isn't outmatched. Shealy is.

Face it: Most of our defensive freshman and sophomores are better players than juniors and seniors. The upperclassmen who get on the field are in their third system in three years. The mistakes they make are glaring,but clearly a combination of inexperience and lack of system repetition, with a coordinator trying to adjust on the fly. Sooner or later, a D-1 OC is going to do his job and out-scheme you, out-match you, and expose you. Anyone who doesn't understand the serious problems of makeshift coaching, combined with personnel still in learning mode has never been around the game at this level.

As a former coach who has been around the block a few times, I think Zenger sees good, developing players on offense. Let's see what Gill can do if we buy a top notch DC, and equip him with players that aren't in a constant state of flux. I am not sure that we can afford, money-wise, to do otherwise. As someone who has experienced rebuilding a KU program, a much-improved 2012 with a good DC might surprise some. It wouldn't surprise me.

blackhawkjayhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

If KU shows well in its final games, then keeping Gill is an option. Zenger cannot fire Gill unless he has a definite plan to bring in a very good coach. Firing Gill, paying his salary and brining in an also-ran coach is the single WORST possible strategy. We'd be better off giving Gill that 3rd year.

Kenny Terry 2 years, 11 months ago

I just can't see next season being any different than last season and this current one if we keep coach Gill. People post about the brutal schedule we face. Next season with TCU and possibly West Virginia coming in it won't get any easier and we can't seem to get a win in conference it will be another 2 or 3 win season at best

SCJayhawker 2 years, 11 months ago

You know I think you have something there. I have always said Coach Gill is an Offensive minded coach. Look at his personal experience as a QB himself and as a finialist for the heismen. He has helped KU make strides on Offense. He has for the most part, laid somewhat of a foundation for us to build upon on the offensive side of the ball. We scored alot of points this year compared to last year. Improvemnet was made. If we had made the same strides on Defense as we did on offense we would be in good shape this year. Our defensive coaches have let down the program and all need to go. They have failed and because of their failure the entire team has failed. Indeed, Coach Gill has also failed. Give him another year to turn around the defense with the right coaches and then lets cast judgement.

bjejayhawk69 2 years, 11 months ago

I think most KU fans are disappointed with inconsistent play. We get blown out and look totally unprepared or we play well for periods of games and don't adjust when the other team adjusts. Those are all coaching issues not players being too young. A Div. 1 head coach has to oversee, control and coach all aspects of his team - proper off season conditioning, game preparation/proper schemes and player motivation, holding players accountable for mistakes and in game adjustments. Also included is assembling a good coaching staff. The Torbush situation was unfortunate but shouldn't be cause for complete breakdown of how to properly scheme and prepare a Dev. 1 team for a season. Our offense has scored more this year but scoring more than last year should not be cause for celebration. Webb is not the answer and we seem to run the wildcat a lot but why don't we ever pass out of it with Matthews. KSU has taken a QB who can't throw but some how they score 30-50 points a game. Adjusting and scheming to your players strengths is what coaches are paid to do. At 2 million a year I do expect at least that. I have been a season ticket holder for 20 years and have missed maybe 1 home game in that span so I have seen a lot of KU football. Some people may not have liked Mangino but he coached up his players and got the most out of them. I really can't say I see anything close to that with Gill and don't see it improving. If Zenger has a coach in line pull the trigger on Gill if not roll the dice for one more year.

Kenny Terry 2 years, 11 months ago

Lew is the one that put the screws to the University with Gills contract. I'm afraid we are up a creek either way. Our 2 options seem to be get rid of Gill and pay him 6 mil or keep him another year and watch the fanbase at memorial stadium evaporate and boosters and season ticket holders will quit wasting their hard earned money on a bad product. Thanks Lew for putting the University in what I see as a no win situation

TXBBall55 2 years, 11 months ago

Leach gets my vote too! HCTG is a classy human being and I wish under different circumstances he could have found a home at KU. In normal times, you give a coach 3-4 years. These aren't normal times and it's time to pull the plug on the Gill experiment. Best of luck spending your $10 million!

TXBBall55 2 years, 11 months ago

JJ isn't happening. Was at a dinner with him a few weeks ago and I sat at his table. Next...

texashawk10 2 years, 11 months ago

Bring in a pass happy coach when KU doesn't have a QB who can throw or receivers who can catch, that'll end well.

boknowssports 2 years, 11 months ago

there are 10 teams in the b-12. right now, 9 of them have a shot at bowl games. thank you coach Gill.

Geekinout 2 years, 11 months ago

Why wouldn't these players stick up for a head college football coach that treats them like it's a daycare center... This program is a joke!

Granted if Gill does get more time, he better get a reputable D-coordinator that can recruit and a new O-coordinator that knows how to call the right plays at the right time. Also, it seems to me they don't understand how to work with the talent they have. Jordan Webb as the starting QB all year? They all deserve to be fired just for that! How many struggling coaches on the hot seat would continue to sink with the same losing Qb week to week? I don't know too many. Hell, look at Texas they were rotating 3 guys just to figure out who had the right chemistry at the beginning of the season.

Kenny Terry 2 years, 11 months ago

I agree with what you said and it is demoralizing to a fanbase to be the laughing stock of college football. It's embarrassing to be the subject of ESPN ridicule but these coaches have done nothing to prove these and others wrong.

Mike Anderson 2 years, 11 months ago

The KU fan base needs to lighten up and get a dose of reality. Somewhere along the line KU believes because they won the Orange Bowl they are a gift to football. But what they don't do is actually go and look at what they have.

The last two recruiting classes for Mangino are the current juniors and seniors. In 2008 he landed 21 and in 2009 27 - total of 48. In those years he landed four players rated with 4 stars on Rivals and Scout. The majority of them were 2 stars and a good number of 3 stars. After winning the Orange Bowl Manging failed to rebuild the team. He should have easily landed 8 to 10 players @ the 4 star level who should be playing today. Out of the four players with 4 stars I believe only one is still playing - a lineman out of McPherson who was recruited as a TE. Based on a count I came up with 18 players who were recruited and are listed on Rivals and Scout. Of those 12 are two star players.

Here is the kicker - people actually believe Gill should be competing against the likes of OU, OSU, TX, GTech, Baylor whose players were all considered better back then than what KU could recruit - after winning the bowl game. You say "we should be improving". Who is going to improve more - the 15 players on OU's team who are "4 star" quality or are 12 players with 2 stars. And the kicker is OU probably gets 15 players per year who are 4 stars.

The other joke are those who quote Gill's record at Buffalo. No duh that he has a losing record - would you expect any coach going into a program who has averaged 1 win per year over the last 7 years to actually turn the program around in under 3 years? If so, let me know what your smoking I want some. The kicker is - he did get them winning and to a bowl game.

As far as the KU players - when your best defenisve guy is a walk on, you are in trouble. I don't believe Steve Johnson was recruited - could have been. When you don't have a junior or a senior who could go to any other Big 12 school and start - do you reall expect to comptete? When you don't have a junior or senior on your team who will be drafted prior to the 10th round of the NFL draft, you are in trouble.

Time to come to reality and realize - Mangino for all the bowl games he won left the cupboard bare. After winning the Orange Bowl KU should have realized some quality recruits and they didn't get them. And now you want Gill to win.

Geekinout 2 years, 11 months ago

From you're entire argument it sounds like you don't watch or go to many of the games... I agree with the only some of the Mangino factor and the Buffalo record, BUT how do you explain the poor game management and play calling?

Also, he's been here long enough to start getting recruits, which it looks to me that is still suspect. If his cupboard was so bare than why isn't he playing his own players and not his entire freshmen class preparing them for the future? That also says something about Gill as a recruiter if Johnson is his best player who was a walk-on.. Do you really expect the KU nation to watch the ship sink like it did with Terry Allen? Remember how long they kept that disaster expecting things to turn around? Did it ever? This situation seems all too familiar. If the talent was that bad then how is KU football able to score points and lead teams by as much as 24 points?

I understand that they weren't suppose to go undefeated this year, a bowl game would've been extremely impressive, but just from what I've seen there are more promising coaches out there that weren't hired simply because of Lew's shoddy vendetta towards Mangino. Just by the length and amount of Gills contract explains what happened there.

Mike Anderson 2 years, 11 months ago

Go to a bowl game - are you kidding? That would not have only been impressive, would rank with parting of the red sea.

Recruits - he did very well last year in recruits, ranked about 36 or 37 and considering where they ended that is excellent.

Poor game management - arm chair QBing is easy to do. I would love to see most people out here try to run a game. In fact I doubt most people out here could get poor high school team past the 30 against a very good high school team.

Bare cupboard you ask? Good question why - but do the research and comparisons yourself, easy enough to do. As far as players playing - most of his offenisve talent are the freshman and sophomores. This can easily be analyzed. But when you only have 18 recruits out of 48 recruits left - those who want to get rid of Gill really need to take a step back and get in touch with reality and ask exactly how he should be winning.

As far as GIll's recruits - he has only had one full year. This would be his 2nd full year. So not sure how you can state that.

As far as the KU nation - I graduated from KU and I'm very familiar with the arrogance of many KU alumni. KU's football team has pretty much stunk over history so for them to see KU as a football power is pretty much a joke. The only way it will happen is to give a coach like Gill time to put his process in, let him find a D coordinator who understands defense (the guy now is not a D coordinator and is only there becuase the other guy had to leave).

just_a_fan 2 years, 11 months ago

Let's see, fire one of the best recruiters in college football (Look at the national championships teams at Nebraska during the 1990's, who do you think was their number-one recruiter?) and pay off all the contracts, for what? The long line of coaches just waiting to take over the KU football program. Great idea, go for it! While you're at it, take a look at KU's roster and notice the number or freshman and sophmores that are contributing.

bjejayhawk69 2 years, 11 months ago

If Gill was such a great recruiter and coach at Nebraska why was he never groomed to the be the next head coach there? They have gone thru 3 head coaches since Osbourne. He was never even a coordinator ! This is one of many signs why this was a ??? hire.

AzNHawk 2 years, 11 months ago

I would suspect that during the Bill Callahan era the Nebraska defense was a disaster. Giving up a lot of points and yardage. Therefore, Osborne fired Callahan and was probably on the hunt for a defensive minded coach. Pelini fit that bill since he had stints as a DC with Oklahoma and LSU

bjejayhawk69 2 years, 11 months ago

Why was he not even considered when Callahan was hired and not after Callahan tanked? Gill is such a nice guy and of course he was recommended by Osborne for other jobs - just not at Nebraska where he played and was a position coach for years. For me this was the biggest red flag of all. I know a lot of Nebraska fans and none them ever wanted Gill to be head coach at Nebraska. They all knew including Osborne. Nice guy and great player at Nebraska but the total package to lead a BCS level Div 1 program in all the areas needed - have not seen it yet and have doubts for next year and beyond if he is retained.

mustlehustle 2 years, 11 months ago

So your argument in favor of Gill is to turn on the "way-back" machine to the 1990s, prior to the Big 12 Conference getting any traction, and look at the efforting of Turner Gill to go out and essentially handle the paperwork set in-motion by Tom Osbourne and the football machine that was Nebraska?

It was easy to sell tickets for passage on the Titanic right up to that little iceberg incident. His entire recruiting efforts since then have taken place attracting kids out of high schools in the Northeast to come to the tundra known as Buffalo NY and his coaching style seems to be as relevant as the early 90s.

boknowssports 2 years, 11 months ago

say what you want about his recruiting, some have already de-committed because of what they have seen this year. this program is losing by larger margins this year than last. we were 3-9 last year, staring at a 2-10 this year. How many kids think they will end up in a bowl game some day if they come to Coach Gill? Say what you want about Mangino, but he got us to some bowls and gave us fans something to look forward too. I can't see Gill going any better than 3-9 next year if he stays. A team takes on the persona of its coach. Ours is soft and it shows on game day.

bville_hawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Can any of you speak with the authority of Calijayhawk above? Maybe we ought to preface our remarks with something like: "I played flag football at my fraternity so I feel qualified to say..." or "My dad coached 8th grade football so I feel qualified to say..."

Calijayhawk, it was nice to read an intelligent and knowledgeable post. Thank you.

I've seen on here a couple times that we only have 15 scholarships to give for next year. What's up with that?

AzNHawk 2 years, 11 months ago

I think the 15 scholarships has to do with the fact that there are 15 seniors graduating and departing from this year's roster.

bville_hawk 2 years, 11 months ago

Ok, thanks, AzN. I was afraid we were paying penance still for some long ago committed sin.

coolhand357 2 years, 11 months ago

We are. And it is showing up on the defense.

Calijhawk 2 years, 11 months ago

The "Torbush Situation" wasn't some 'unfortunate' small deal. It is the football equivalent to a major corporation losing a CFO who leaves the building with all the bank account numbers. You not only lose a DC, you also lose a full-time DB coach, and Vic Shealy IS a well-respected DB coach within the profession. In essence, you have to start all over...again. Defense is combination of recognition, reaction, and discipline. It takes repetition in a specific system to do all three well. Talented freshmen can play in a system as long as there are upperclassmen to help correct any mistakes. But here, the juniors and seniors themselves are in learning mode...again. Opposing OC's are not stupid...they know where these breakdowns are likely to occur, and scheme their looks accordingly. Shealy is simply in a position of having to teach after-the-fact. A top notch DC may be able to do this, but Shealy obviously isn't one of these, and has never pretended to be.

A similar situation occurred when KU lost Bill Young to Miami, and promoted Clint Bowen. I like Clint, but he was not quite ready to be a D-1 DC, and the defense dropped off noticeably that year, even though it was the same system, and more than half the starters had been in it for two years.

Understand that this is a GOOD staff. All are well respected within the coaching profession. Fans simply don't understand that it wasn't simply losing Torbush...it was the TIMING that was the backbreaker. Let's finish the year, spend the money to hire a top notch DC, so recruits can see that we have addressed the problem. THEN if we don't see improvement, I will be the first to get on the change bandwagon. Until then...hire a DC and stay the course.

bjejayhawk69 2 years, 11 months ago

The trouble will be finding a high level well respected DC to come here to coach statistically the worst defense in college football for a potential lame duck head coach.

The biggest issue I've seen is the lack of in game and halftime adjustments or even in some games being unprepared for what the other team does. Those are things other coaches do and I have not seen for 2 years.

Again - nice guy and unfortunate situation with Torbush but other programs adjust and find a way to get in done - especially for 2 million a year.

Mike Anderson 2 years, 11 months ago

In order to make adjustments that actually can work - you have to have the talent to adjust.

Don't forget - you might adjust at which time the offense adjusts to match your adjustment. Or worse, you make adjustments and the other team comes out after the halftime with a completely different scheme. When your defense is young life can be difficult unless you have a well seasoned DC.

As far as attracting a well known DC - you might be correct. However, if you have a good DC who is looking for a head coaching job - why not. You have everything to gain. You come to KU and turn the worst defense around - a true feather in your cap. At the same time KU has an idiot AD who blubbers stupid statements to the media that puts a questionable foundation for your coach - which actually kills recruiting - who will probably fire Gill just to fire him.

I don't think people realize that statement the AD made publicly was not in the best interest of KU. He clearly solidified any concept of a coach on probation - which is the worst thing you can have for recruiting. The loss of the kid from FL is as much the AD's fault as KU losing. The AD needs to learn to keep his mouth shut and make those statements behind closed doors.

bjejayhawk69 2 years, 11 months ago

The games I have problems with are the Texas Tech game. Obviously we have talent to compete with them. Up by 20 and get out scored by about 45 to 7. Texas Tech is a team KU can play with. Tuberville adjusted - KU never did both offensively and defensively.

True the AD shouldn't publically talk about the short comings of our coach/team but he has seen first hand how a coaching takes non highly recruited talents and properly schemes, prepares and adjusts to make them competitive and for heaven's sake even win. KSU takes a QB who can't throw, loses the their top RB and has a freshman as their top receiver and score 30-50 points a game. Defensively they have Arthur Brown and beyond that no one who would be picked pre season all Big 12. They give up yards and points but again ADJUST and find ways to win. On top of it Gill wouldn't retain our strength and conditioning coach (Chris Dawson) who now at KSU. I have talked to people in the KU FB office - this was a huge loss and his replacement is not cutting it. Just another aspect a head coach has to evaluate and hire appropriately if his team is to be successful in the fall.

Placing the blame on "youth" doesn't cut it for me. Prepare, scheme, adjust and lead is what is missing.

jhawkinmissouri 2 years, 11 months ago

For all of you on the replacement "bandwagon" - We won't get a "quality coach" or a "proven winner" to come to KU unless our administration proves they will give a coach time to recruit and develop the players to fit his program. If we fire Coach Gill after just 2 seasons, no one in their right mind would accept a football coaching job for the Jayhawks!

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 2 years, 11 months ago

First post here ever.

Leach for head coach, anything else is a failure. His system would thrive here, but it would struggle at Ole Miss against an SEC culture that is defense dominated. Not to mention that Ole Miss doesn't fit his Texas recruiting mold. If KU hasn't offered him the job for more money than he's currently giving Gill, plus incentives, then SZ should be fired. If they have done that then SZ is a mastermind. I have a feeling that Gill won't coach the last game this year.

Gill is incompetent. Besides a little gesturing for an obvious pass interference last week Gill usually just stands silently on the sidelines with hands folded wiggling his microphone. He is worthless for a head coach. Two close loses are considered getting better. He's never been successful. In the MAC at Buffalo his highest win total in one season was. . . .8. They went 8-6. His other three seasons he was 12-24. His last season at Buffalo they went 5-7. This farce from Lew needs to be ended immediately. What a joke. Believe, what a joke. That sounds like a Royals slogan.

If, miraculously, he keeps his job, I in turn will have to switch to the calling for SZ's job because he will have failed his job worse than Gills. Gill must be gone before December, or SN has failed the University and our town at large. I give SN until December to hire Leach or he has failed completely. *will settle for Tressel, but anything else would be utter failure at doing the job of improving Kansas Athletics. NW coach would be a dissapointment

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