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Monday, November 14, 2011

Battle of the basketball bluebloods: Hoops heavyweights to go toe-to-toe tonight

Kentucky’s Terrence Jones dunks during the first half of a college basketball exhibition game against Morehouse in Lexington, Ky., on Monday, Nov. 7, 2011.

Kentucky’s Terrence Jones dunks during the first half of a college basketball exhibition game against Morehouse in Lexington, Ky., on Monday, Nov. 7, 2011.

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— The two winningest programs in college basketball history tangle tonight in the biggest — some say the best — city in the country.

“That’s enough right there to start a party,” exclaimed Kansas University junior combo guard Elijah Johnson, eager to contribute to the hype surrounding an 8:30 p.m. Champions Classic contest between No. 1 Kentucky (2,053 all-time victories) and No. 2 KU (2,039).

Duke, the fourth-winningest squad of all time (1,946 wins), opens the off-Broadway show with a 6 p.m. meeting against No. 38 Michigan State (1,496), with all of the action available on ESPN — where else?

“When I think of Kentucky,” KU’s Johnson said, “I think of a winning program, a legendary program, Rupp Arena. That’s about it. It should be a good game just because of the stats.”

North Carolina, by the way, looms right behind KU in all-time victories with 2,034.

As far as the outlook for this particular season, Kentucky enters 1-0 (after Friday’s 108-58 victory over Marist) and ranked second in the land; KU is 1-0 (after a 100-54 pasting of Towson) and ranked 12th.

“It’ll be good. It’ll be a fun deal,” KU coach Bill Self said. “They’ll be fired up, and they’ve got men. It’ll be interesting to see how our young guys react.”

As well as Kentucky’s.

Young, talented NBA prospects on the UK roster include sophomores Terrence Jones and Doron Lamb, as well as freshmen Anthony Davis, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Marquis Teague.

Jones — he didn’t start in Friday’s opener the day after fleeing the scene of a car accident (he was only a passenger in the car) — might be the best of the UK bunch.

“He’d probably have been a lottery pick (had he entered the 2011 draft),” Self said of the 6-foot-9, 252-pounder from Portland, Ore., who averaged 15.7 points and 8.8 rebounds his freshman season.

“They say Gilchrist (6-7, 232, Somerdale, N.J.) is a lottery pick. Davis (6-10, 220, Chicago) is a lottery pick. Lamb (6-4, 210, Queens, N.Y.) may lead them in scoring. Teague (6-2, 189, Indianapolis) will eventually be a lottery pick. They’ve got other guys who will eventually play in the league. They’ve got some guys. They will guard and play hard. We are going to have to really bring it. I’m looking forward to putting us in that position to see what we do,” Self added.

First item on the scouting report: How does KU slow down power forward Jones?

“Just put Thomas on him. Thomas coulda went pro, too. It’s like that,” KU junior guard Tyshawn Taylor said of KU All-America candidate Thomas Robinson, who wasn’t about to make this match-up all about himself.

Dead silence was Robinson’s answer to a question of what he thought about Jones.

“They have a tough team with young, talented guys,” Robinson said. “At the same time, they are in our way. We’ll see ’em in the Garden.”

Veterans Taylor and Johnson likely will be asked to shadow point guard Teague, who is following in the footsteps of John Wall and Brandon Knight.

“You know, he plays a big role for his team. He is one of the only pure point guards,” Taylor said. “He’s a good player, but he’s a freshman still. He’s going to make mistakes. It’s like his second or third game in college. He is going to be really good, but I think me and Elijah have to put pressure on him. We are both 6-4. He’s about 6-0, so we’ve got to use our length and just play.”

The Jayhawks didn’t prepare for Kentucky — but they did discuss the Kentucky challenge — even prior to the Towson game.

“(We talked about them) in general terms,” Self said. “Hey, they’ve got men, and they’ve got a bunch of them. NBA people who have been to our practices and been to theirs ... they are saying, ‘They’ve got men.’ They’re competitive. We are also competitive when we get it turned up. We’ve not gotten it turned up consistently.”

Kentucky coach John Calipari, who took the Wildcats to the Final Four in his second season in Lexington — his sophomores say they are intent on winning it all in ’12 — is equally complimentary of KU.

“I just don’t know if we’re ready to play a team like Kansas,” Calipari said on his website, coachcal.com. “We’re this highly ranked team who could get beat by 100 teams in the country right now.”

Noted shooting guard/Queens native Lamb, who, like KU’s Taylor (Hoboken, N.J.) will be playing before a batch of relatives and friends tonight: “We know Kansas is a great team. We’re a great team, so we’ve got to go out there and compete with them.”

“Kansas is a great school, great team,” freshman forward Davis said. “I just can’t wait to go out there and play them. Coach Cal said they’re real physical, and if we start the game the way we started (Friday vs. Marist), we’re not going to win.”

There’s a chance these teams could meet in a rematch in the NCAA Tournament.

And, who knows, maybe in regular-season games down the line.

“I think it’d be a great home-and-home every year, wouldn’t it?” Self said. KU trails the series 19-6, all time.

NOTES

• KU has won the last three meetings between the teams dating to 2005. KU beat Kentucky, 88-76, in a second-round 2007 NCAA Tournament game in Chicago.

• KU’s single-game record of 150 points came against Kentucky in a 150-95 win over Rick Pitino’s Wildcats on Dec. 9, 1989 in Lawrence.

• Tyshawn Taylor on UK coach Calipari, who worked as a former Larry Brown assistant at KU: “I think he’s definitely one of the best coaches of this era, my era. He’s got a lot of guys in the pros. For the guys that want to be in the one-and-done position, he’s the guy for that. If you want to come to college and leave right after that, he’s the guy.” More from Taylor on coach Cal: “Probably that national championship game when he coached Memphis against coach Self, that’s one of the things I definitely remember about coach Cal. He lost to coach Self (in ‘08 title game).”

• Taylor on the Garden: “I think it’s an amazing place to play, real close to home. I’ll have a lot of family in there, which is a good thing. Last year, I remember it being cold (on early-December trip in which KU beat Memphis in the Jimmy V. Classic). I remember winning the game. I remember us watching a Knicks game the night before and just having a good time.”

• Elijah Johnson on the Garden: “I always thought the Garden was the best gym in the world and the fieldhouse second. The closer I got to college, I started to go with the fieldhouse over the Garden. I love the Garden, but the fieldhouse is more exciting for us.”

• Next season, Kansas will play Michigan State on Nov. 13, 2012, at the Georgia Dome in Atlanta, while Duke will play Kentucky in that Champions Classic doubleheader. On Nov. 12, 2013, the venue will be the United Center in Chicago with Kansas playing Duke and Kentucky facing Michigan State. “Prior to Maui, I don’t think we’ve had a group get together like this to generate more interest than this here,” Self said of the Classic.

• Self on Calipari’s strong recruiting: “He’s a good recruiter. They (UK coaches) are hungry. They’ve got a great product to push. They’ve done real well. He’s been able to do very well with the guys that are bonifide NBA talent guys, the one-and-done or two-and-done guys. They’ve got a guy who came back this year (Jones) that would have been a lottery pick last year. The thing about Cal that is a little bit misleading ... guys can get reputations as being real good recruiters. Rarely do really good recruiters get the reputation of being a really good coach. I think he’s a really really good coach. He gets his teams to play hard and guard and play unselfish. It’s the hardest thing to do with really young, talented guys.

“We’ve gone against them several times (in recruiting). They win their fair share. We’ve won a few. As long as he is there and really it doesn’t make a difference who is there or here, we will go against each other recruiting-wise no question and they’ve done a great job.”

Comments

AZHawk72 2 years, 5 months ago

For All of You Who Trash Everyone Who Attacks The Recruiting Effort of Late--

--tonight's loss is dedicated to you. Six McDonald's all-americans vs none--what a shocking conclusion. Not!!

For the last month, I have sat back and said nothing about the young punks who have trashed and mindlessly blasted anyone who dared question our level of recruiting. As a twice-graduated KU grad, I resent the tone of supposed KU fans who attack people who care about this program and receive nothing but garbage for pointing out the obvious--our recruiting has sucked for two years--and tonight's game is exhibit A--B through Z will be forthcoming.

Just because someone dares imply that "we should be doing better than we are doing on the recruiting front," which is, duh, only stating the more than obvious, doesn't give you the right to trash someone who is probably both more knowledgeable and cares more about their alma mater than you do. Our recruiting was clearly exposed tonight. If you don't agree, then you don't care as much about MY school as I do. Find another bandwagon to jump on, and, please let the REAL fans support our school--no matter what.

It's been Perry since Thomas and Elijah--and they're great, but this isn't good. In between, well, we need a bench because that's what we've recruited. Maybe a starter or two will emerge, maybe not.

However, attacking seriously loyal fans for disloyalty by questionning the obvious, that our recruiting effort has sucked of late smacks of a lack of academic standards--not in the players, but in the students, the fans.

Tonight's game is dedicated to you.

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DoctorTK 2 years, 5 months ago

For all the fans stranded overseas dying to watch the game, I just found the Duke vs. Michigan State game on veetle (add your own dot com). Go to Sports category and look for ESPN HD. Oh, I am soooo happy! Hopefully this channel will stay open for the next 3 hours. If you are stuck at work (it is 10:30 am here), there's a free veetle app for Android in the market so you can watch on your phone. It'll be the first KU game I get to watch this season.

I also want to thank all the frequent posters on this board. Your comments help quench my thirst when I can't watch the games.

RCJH!

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UKALLDay 2 years, 5 months ago

All the trash talk aside....Good luck. I hope it's a great game!!!!!!

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Jeremy Caudle 2 years, 5 months ago

Did I hear correctly??? Vitale is commentating for the next game?

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brooksmd 2 years, 5 months ago

Looks like we're stuck with listening to Vitale slobber all over Calisleazy and Kenstinky. Wish I was in range of a Jhawk network radio station so I could turn down the tv sound. Oh well, needed an excuse to get a new flat screen and any heavy object within arm's reach will silence Vitale and send me to Best Buy tomorrow for a new tv.

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jaybate 2 years, 5 months ago

If you wonder why a lot of guys don't come to Kansas, I think we have our answer. Watch Self railing on the guys in practice in this clip with Jay Bilas. This would be very tough to take day after day. It makes me love our guys even more. 84% does not come by going through the motions. Geez, how can a guy who is so smiley and nice have that shattering of a tone of voice in a practice? This is like watchingKnight without the neck chokes and uniform grabbing and chair throwing. John Wooden had this kind of intensity and rapier like tone. No wonder each year, one or two guys walk around looking like they are being dismantled nerve by nerve. They are. Bill Self is really tough and demanding. Holy cow! I knew he was, but until you "hear" it you can't believe it. This guy has a needle six feet long!!!! And this was for public consumption.

http://espn.go.com/videohub/video/clip?id=7216874&categoryid=2378529

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jaybate 2 years, 5 months ago

Bulletin: Capel's assistant takes the fall. OU forfeits its few wins. Punished for Tiny Gallon being ruled ineligible. OU gets three years probation with 30 day reduction in recruiting season. Otherwise zip. Capel didn't do a thing.

Isn't it amazing how the assistant coaches and alumni always break the rules, but the head coaches don't.

I guess colleges just need to stop hiring assistant coaches and end alumni status and all the infractions will stop.

Right?

I wonder what kind of odds the ESPN/CBS/Gambling Industrial Complex would set on a head coach being found to have committed, or ordered, the infractions? 1000:1?

Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad assistant coaches.

Good, good, good, good, good, good head coaches.

Assistant coaches bad.

Head coaches good.

Remember this.

Call it the Assistant Coach Is Always Bad Heuristic.

Bet on it.

Isn't it about time an award is given for the best fall taken by an assistant coach each season? Maybe call it the Lee Harvey Oswald Cut Out Award? Or maybe The Crazed Lone Assistant Coach Award?

Double down on it.

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kennethst 2 years, 5 months ago

Tonight I'm hoping for the best......but I'm keeping my expectations in check. I think we will play nervously at first but play well in the end.

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kennethst 2 years, 5 months ago

I think Jaybate must be like that "Most interesting man in the world" from those Dos Equis commercials......."When he's in Rome.....the Romans do as he does"......He lives vicariously through himself"......."When you look up 'trend-setter' in the dictionary-his picture is there"

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Steve Brown 2 years, 5 months ago

would have been a nice night to have the Twins, Reed and Brady, heck Brandon as long as I'm winding back the clock. We don't, so it is a learning experience, how thin are we, plenty thin and it gets exposed this evening. A great teaching event for HCBS.

This year, 19 wins, not counting sprint center 2-3 more.

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hihawk 2 years, 5 months ago

jaybate, blabber mouth and doesn't know what he said.

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jaybate 2 years, 5 months ago

"Some Books the UK Players Are Reputedly Reading to Relax Before the Game"

~See Spot Run: The Sequel.

~The Berenstain Bears Battle the NCAA

~Basketball for Dummies by Digger Phelps

~The Dribble Drive Fold Out Book

~Learning to Spell A, An and The

~One Year in Lexington, One Month in Class

~How to Manage Your Test Taking Surrogate

~Shoes and Money

~Finding Housing from October to April

~How to Speak to Investigators

~Post Traumatic Forfeit Syndrome

~Majoring in Eligibility

~What GPA Stands For

~Kentucky English: Learning to Speak in Three Word Sentences

~Still Culture

(Note: All fiction. No malice.)

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hihawk 2 years, 5 months ago

globaljaybird, I really don't understand, what is the jahawhinnebraska comment. Would you please explain?

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Woody Cragg 2 years, 5 months ago

Recruiting will not be enough much longer for the Squid. As grad % rates go up, Cal goes down, if not before, while vacating the w's from kuntucky record books. I can't think of another individual coaching anywhere that I despise more. Biggest liar & poorest coach out there. Dummying up grades & entrance exams, paying players & AAU shoe whores & pimps, yeah & no friggin' rings with all the solid gold recruiting classes. What an extremely sorry coach-still can't figure out when to foul & when not to. This scum is a joke. Was literally run out of the NBA & no one will take him back. He & Bruce Pearl should do a duet on the radio. Next time he cuts & runs from a college team he should get the death penalty for coaching. Oughta have it now.

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Benjamin Piehler 2 years, 5 months ago

Calapari can recruit but Self can coach.

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Chad Hallack 2 years, 5 months ago

I've heard some people say that Self needs to slow the game down tonight. I think a lower scoring game gives us an advantage. If you put our starting five against theirs we have an advantage with a more experienced back court. Our depth is questionable, theirs is solid. So to take advantage of that you have to slow the tempo down, take care of the ball and really guard which is tough against a really athletic team. You have to pick your poison.

I hope Bill tries to run with them like Larry Brown did against OU in '88. Everybody will say he's nuts just like they did Larry. It's playing right into Calimari's hands, but I think he should open up the bench and throw them young-uns right into the fire and find out what he's really got. That second unit looked as good or better than the 1st against albeit a really bad team the other night.

Plus, Self's really got nothing to lose, which doesn't happen very often. KU's not gonna be favored to win for a change. So if he tries to run with them, we might get run right out of the building but they'll all say Kentucky was supposed to win anyway. But there are a lot of athletes on our bench too, just not tested ones.

I really like Nadir Tharpe... A LOT. He gives us a true point guard which will allow Taylor to come off more screens and look to penetrate and will let Elijah concentrate on scoring and not handling the ball all the time. I think Elijah is gonna emerge as a true star this year and needs to have a good game for the 'Hawks to win tonight. All I want Taylor to do is not eff up too much. He drives me crazy. Young and Wesley need to focus on defense and rebounding. We got out rebounded by Towson the other night... not good.

Despite all the detractors we have every reason to believe we can win this game... Three keys... 1) Stay out of foul trouble... 2) Out rebound them - we can't win if they beat us on the boards and get 2nd chance points... 3) The bench has to play well.

Also, if Connor can get open shots he could be huge. Dude knows he's gonna play and that he's got a green light to fire away. He's 17 or 18 for 21 from three so far including exhibitions.

Rock Chalk! Can hardly wait for tip-off!

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Jack Wilson 2 years, 5 months ago

Am I looking at this wrong?

We're better. We have more experience. We have a more cohesive team. We have a better coach. We have a better system. We don't have freshmen starters playing on a big stage for the first time. We're fast. We have the best player on the floor. We are better defensively. We have less pressure as we aren't favored.

And did I say that we're better?

KU 76 UK 71

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hihawk 2 years, 5 months ago

If Calipari were here we would have a great team this year and would not have had Morningstar and Reed to drag last years team down. Calipari knows how to recruit, which seems to be missing here, in the years pasted.

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Funhawk 2 years, 5 months ago

Source: Lawrence Journal World, January 14, 1985 Headline: KU jayvees to resume without leading scorers. Partial copied from the article: Kansas' junior varsity basketball team will be without its top two scorers when it resumes competition this week following the semester break. Coach John Calipari's team, 3-2, will play at Hutchinson Junior College on Tuesday night without forward Marvin Mattox and guard Milt Garner, both freshmen. Although it was reported in Sunday's Journal-World that Mattox and Garner are academically ineligible, Calipari said that wasn't the case. "They're not ineligible," Calipari pointed out. "Coach (Mike) Gottfried just wants them to concentrate on academics the second semester."

“What if …” What if Calipari had not left Coach Brown’s staff…. and what if KU had offered the head coaching position to Calipari instead of Roy.

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Ben Kliewer 2 years, 5 months ago

Quick note to my Los Angeles Jayhawks...

I know the Alumni Ass'n is sponsoring a watch party at The Parlor in Hollywood, but I also heard that a group of KU folks collect at Big Wangs in Hollywood right over by where last years alumni watch sight, Capitol City used to be. Any validity to that?

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Funhawk 2 years, 5 months ago

Source: Lawrence Journal World, March 02, 1984 Headline: Manning isn't only Kansas basketball signee looking good. Partial copied from the article: Do you remember Tyrone Jones? How about Altonio Campbell? And Milton Newton? Along with Lawrence High's Danny Manning, those three high school basketball players signed national scholarship agreements with Kansas University back in November.
Jones is also receiving plenty of coaching in his classroom work, too. In fact, first-year coach Westmore has set up a mandatory tutorial program for his players. Jones, who flubbed his freshman and sophomore years, made an academic comeback last year and is going down to the wire this year in a race to qualify for an NCAA scholarship. "At this point," said Westmore, "he's moving in that direction, but he's hot there yet. He's gotta make A's and B's from this point on. But he's worked hard and the tutoring has helped." Kansas aide John Calipari, who did the groundwork in Jones' recruitment, marvels at how hard the young athlete has worked.

“What if …” What if Calipari had not left Coach Brown’s staff …. and what if KU had offered the head coaching position to Calipari instead of Roy.

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Tony Bandle 2 years, 5 months ago

This may be Cal's best chance to win since Kentucky is made up of the parts of three #1 recruiting classes and Kansas has lost five players to the pros in the last couple of years.

For all it's hype, it's only the fourth game of the year and only the second game for TRob, Tyshawn and Elijah.

Win, lose or draw...talk to me in March.

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Adam Evans 2 years, 5 months ago

And the jaybate strikes again lol. In response to the comment earlier, when it comes to KU basketball, there is no such thing as "just a basketball game". And to all the posters getting mad at the KU fans for defending not just our team, but our way of life, deal with it. If someone came into your home and started calling your wife fat and ugly, you would respond in similar if not more aggressive ways than most of us on here have. We are not just fans. KU is a marriage. And we are loyal as such. The team is our family. F.O.E. remember?

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jaybate 2 years, 5 months ago

But its true Johnny No Rings never played the game at a high level.

And when Billy Has a Ring walks down the sideline toward mid court before during and after the game, Billy Has a Ring has that edge each time he looks into Johnny No Rings eyes.

When their eyes lock, both men know they are each excellent basketball coaches, each smart guys, each clever fellows, each trained under one of the wiliest of all time in LB.

But only one of them looks into the other's eyes and says, "I've played on these floors. I've played under the bright lights. I've played hurt against great ones. I've played against some of the great ones of my time.

The one that has really been there is Billy Has a Ring.

The one that wishes he had been is Johnny No Rings.

This sort of intangible matters at crucial moments, like dealing with adversity and stair downs and referee baiting, and knowing just how ferocious you have to be.

John Wooden knew he was flat out more ferociously competitive than almost all of the coaches he faced. John Wooden knew he was an All American and the Indiana Rubber Man. When his great mind flowered fully as a coach, the reservoir of confidence and competitive greatness that came from having been a great, great college basketball player compounded his brilliance.

Few great players have what it takes to become a good coach. But the few that do tend to become great coaches.

The world is full of marginal players that work themselves into being great coaches. Rupp. Smith. Knight, and Williams. Maybe even John Calipari someday.

But there is one other class of great coaches. They are the guys that were solid D1 players, not marginal ones, and not all time greats. Larry Brown fits this category. So does Billy Has a Ring. Johhny No Rings does not fit this category either.

Johnny No Rings has to do it all on moxie and cleverness. Its no knock on him. Everyone has to make the best of what they have.

But if you have a great coach who was a great player you have an incredible combination, and a solid player, also brings an edge.

Billy Has a Ring was no one's All American at Okie State. But he was a starting glue two at a D1 program. He played on the same floor, and stayed on the same floor with some great players. And he did it with less talent than they had.

Bill Has a Ring can never have the bottomless reservoir of swagger and competitive greatness that John Wooden had.

But Johnny No Rings can never have the substantial reservoir of swagger and competitive greatness that Billy Has a Ring has.

And its always better to bring a gun to a knife fight than the other way around.

Capice?

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jaybate 2 years, 5 months ago

And that is as it should be I suppose, since most knowledgeable persons point out that college basketball is a business.

A large percentage of UK's players leave after a year, or two. And since UK does not tout that a large percentage of these early departures come back and get their degrees, one tends to guess that UK's players are there mostly not to go to school.

KU too has had a few OADs, but not nearly so many, as any UK lurker will likely boast.

Johnny No Rings has after all pioneered and been a leading apologist for using college basketball as a one year college launch pad for the NBA. He has brought an AAU approach to college basketball. Get the best he can get. Let'em play. Rely on what they can already do before they get there to be the bulk of what they do while there. Teach the gimmick offense. it has, when he has not been victimized by forfeits (I say victimized, because he says clearly that he has done nothing wrong to trigger the forfeits), been very successful in winning games, though it has produced no rings...hence the nickname Johnny No Rings.

All of which prompts a question probably even to a casual observer.

Why hasn't Johnny No Rings beaten Billy Has a Ring?

Why does anyone even give Billy Has a Ring and his "right way" Jayhawks even a smidgeon of a chance against "AAU way" UK in Madison Square Garden tonight?

Why?

I have one hunch.

Billy Has a Ring once played Division 1 college basketball.

Billy Has a Ring has that tremendous competitiveness and will to excel that true jocks have coursing through them. Billy Has a Ring has broad shoulders and strong neck. He's got the body of a jock. He is a stud.

But Billy Has a Ring also has an off the charts basketball IQ, too. He has a stellar intellect for the game. He has won at Oral Roberts; that by definition means he has a ton on the ball. He has gone to the Final Eight at Tulsa of all places; that by definition means he has a ton on the ball. And he has gone to Elite Eights and Final Fours at Illinois and Kansas. And he has won the whole thing at Kansas.

Billy Has a Ring has moxie and a gambling streak in him.

Johnny No Rings has a large basketball intellect, too, and moxie and a gambling streak in him, too. It took moxie and a gambling streak to develop his AAU approach to D1.

But Johnny No Rings lacks something, doesn't he?

Johnny No Rings was never really a Division 1 college basketball player.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that.Quite a few good coaches overcome having never played the game at a high level.

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jaybate 2 years, 5 months ago

Now tonight Johnny No Rings is back in a marquis game with Billy Has a Ring and he once again has more draft choices and more depth than Billy Has a Ring.

And once again everyone is picking Johnny No Rings to win the game handily and doubting Billy Has a Ring and modestly regarded team. Billy Has a Ring's team is not even in the Top Ten.

And just as it was back on that April night in 2008, tonight there is no evidence of wrong doing except for occasional rumors about investigations of this, or that, possibly illegal UK activity, just as there was no nothing but rumors about this or that illegal Memphis activity (though it turned out later that there was quite a lot of illegal activity, but I digress).

And much of the coaching staff and unofficial consigliores at Memphis are reputedly back again at UK tonight.

And much of the coaching staff and unofficial consigliores that the NCAA said it could not find sufficient evidence to charge with anything back when the group was at Memphis, will be back on the sidelines without sufficient evidence of any wrong doing for the NCAA to charge them with anything.

And just as much of that coaching staff and the unofficial consigliores once said at Memphis that they had nothing to do with any wrong doing at Memphis, they would probably, if they were asked if any wrong doing were occurring at UK, say once again that they would have had nothing to do with it. that said they knew nothing about

So: this is a situation KU fans and Bill Self should be familiar with and to whatever extent possible, comfortable with.

It is how it is in big time college basketball.

Some great programs are coached by head coaches that have not left a trail of forfeits in their wakes at prior jobs.

Some great programs are coached by head coaches that have left a trail of forfeits in their wakes at prior jobs.

And the talking heads, though they will likely mention the prior meeting of Billy Has a Ring with Johnny No Rings, they will also likely not comment on the ringers and forfeits Johnny No Rings said he had nothing to do with, nor the absence of ringers and forfeits that Billy Has a Ring has never had to deny.

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jaybate 2 years, 5 months ago

"Billy Has a Ring vs. Johnny No Rings or Having Been There Is Better Than Not Having Been There"

Johnny No Rings has more draft choices tonight; that much is for sure.

How many of them took their own SATs is open to speculation, as usual with a Johnny No Rings team since what occured in Memphis just after he left Beal Street for Lexington.

What is not open to speculation is that Billy Has a Ring has Johnny No Rings number.

Johnny No Rings choked big time in 2008 against Billy Has a Ring.

In fact, Johnny No Rings choked twice in that NCAA Final.

Choke #1 came down the stretch of regulation, when he let himself be out coached so badly that his team blew a sure lead.

Choke #2 came in the OT, when Johnny No Rings completely lost his composure and so caused his team to lose its composure and get beat in OT.

Ordinarily this might not be such a glaring failure on Johnny No Rings' part, because Bill Self had had quite a bit more head coaching experience, despite their similar ages.

But in this case Johnny No Rings was coaching a team full of ringers--a team that had no business even being on the floor--a team that because certain alumni had broken the rules in fact had quite a bit more talent available than KU had.

Johnny No Rings had the future Number One draft choice, a reputed ringer named Derek Rose. And And another reputed ringer named Cliff Dozier. And there were other reputed ringers, though enough time has passed that I cannot recall their names.

But Johnny No-Rings did not just have ringers. He had some legitimate players too. He had Chris David-Roberts aka CDR, an experienced All American. And he had a gimmick offense called Princeton on Steroids that he had actually gotten from a California high school coach, but elected not to call it by his own name.

Still, Johnny No Rings could win with more ringers, more depth, with a gimmick offense,m and with his alumni cheating his talent to sufficient level to get him to an NCAA Final.

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btr555 2 years, 5 months ago

Looks like Vegas has KU as 7pt underdogs...not really sure what i expected this early in the season with so much uncertainty and so many unknowns. Any objective thougts on this spread? I personally thought it was a little high...

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hammerhawk 2 years, 5 months ago

"KU’s single-game record of 150 points came against Kentucky in a 150-95 win over Rick Pitino’s Wildcats on Dec. 9, 1989 in Lawrence."

My wife and I were there, sitting in the backed chairs in the middle of the court on the east side as guests Lawrence business Pur-O-Zone. Man what a game. It was hard to believe when everyone realized that Kentucky was just going to run up and down with the Mighty Kansas Jayhawks and try to beat us that way. It was as loud as it could be in the Phog. The windows were all steamed up. It was freezing outside but t-shirt warm inside! Pitino was as brazen and unlikeable then as he is now. This was truly one of the greatest games ever played at the fieldhouse.

Tonite, in Madison Square Garden, if we play Kansas basketball, we can win the game. No doubt about it. Go Hawks!!!!

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RockChalkSkiHawkDoc 2 years, 5 months ago

For the LJW: I'd love to see an addition to the kusports.com page--a box that shows the running total of BB wins for the top 3 (UK, KU, UNC). Let it run through the season and get the fans pumped up even more. Hopefully, we can gain ground on the other blues over the next couple of years (though this season could be a bit tough).

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jhwkfan162515 2 years, 5 months ago

A Kansas-Kentucky matchup does NOT belong on ESPN. ESPN puts everyone on TV these days. KU-UK belongs on CBS. Only elite teams get to play on CBS. KU-UK is CBS-worthy material.

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KGphoto 2 years, 5 months ago

The UK troll is ahperse. He's been doing this all season. The lack of actual ahperse posts should give you some indication.

More interesting than that:

Jones fled the scene of an accident. Why?

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Hawk4Life1000 2 years, 5 months ago

I am almost ashamed to affiliated with KU with all the nut jobs on here. It's just a basketball game folks. Two good teams with rich traditions on both sides. If someone from another team wants to post on here just let them but this is getting disrespectful. When do the children go to school and some adult post on this site? You all suck!!!

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UKBAllDay 2 years, 5 months ago

11/15/2011 (#2) Kentucky vs. (#12) Kansas W 132 - 66 Champions Classic (Madison Square Garden) 3/18/2007 Kentucky vs. (#2) Kansas L 76 - 88 NCAA West Regional Second Round (at Chicago, IL) 1/7/2006 (#19) Kentucky at Kansas L 46 - 73 - 1/9/2005 (#2) Kansas at (#8) Kentucky L 59 - 65 - 3/14/1999 (#8) Kentucky vs. (#22) Kansas w 92 - 88 ot ncaa Midwest Regional Second Round (at New Orleans, LA) 12/1/1998 (#4) Kentucky vs. (#8) Kansas W 63 - 45 Great Eight (at Chicago, IL) 12/8/1990 Kansas at (#25) Kentucky W 88 - 71 - 12/9/1989 Kentucky at (#2) Kansas L 95 - 150 - 12/14/1985 (#9) Kentucky at (#7) Kansas L 66 - 83 - 12/31/1984 Kentucky vs. (#11) Kansas W 92 - 89 (at Louisville, KY) 12/10/1983 (#2) Kentucky at Kansas W 72 - 50 - 12/29/1982 (#3) Kentucky vs. Kansas W 83 - 62 (at Louisville, KY) 12/12/1981 (#2) Kentucky at Kansas W 77 - 74 OT - 12/13/1980 Kansas at (#2) Kentucky W 87 - 73 - 12/12/1979 (#5) Kentucky at Kansas W 57 - 56 - 12/9/1978 (#5) Kansas at (#10) Kentucky W 67 - 66 OT - 12/10/1977 (#1) Kentucky at (#19) Kansas W 73 - 66 - 12/11/1976 Kansas at (#4) Kentucky W 90 - 63 Rupp Arena dedication 12/13/1975 (#14) Kentucky at Kansas W 54 - 48 - 12/23/1974 (#20) Kentucky vs. (#18) Kansas W 100 - 63 (at Louisville, KY) 12/3/1973 (#10) Kentucky at (#13) Kansas L 63 - 71 - 12/23/1972 Kansas at Kentucky W 77 - 71 - 12/4/1971 (#10) Kentucky at (#14) Kansas W 79 - 69 - 12/6/1969 Kansas at (#2) Kentucky W 115 - 85 - 12/14/1959 Kentucky at Kansas W 77 - 72 OT - 12/16/1950 Kansas at Kentucky W 68 - 39 -

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REHawk 2 years, 5 months ago

Johnny No Ring, double tie yer brogues. There is bound to be a call for lotsa stompin' in front of the Wildcat bench tonight.

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Konkis Dongington III 2 years, 5 months ago

Seriously, just stop. How many accounts are you going to make? UKALLDay is UKBAllDay, and he's the same pervert that was making gay jokes yesterday. Enough is enough. How is it that Kentucky fans have nothing else to do better than coming out to the Lawrence Journal World's site and making fools of themselves. Isn't acting like an idiot homer what ESPN is for? How many KU fans have invaded Lexington's local paper? I'm guessing 0. That's cause KU fans have more class and more important things to do with their lives. Acting like this, you'd think this is the first time a Kentucky team has ever been ranked. Hopefully this just gets settled on the court. If TRob and company get it done tonight, we'll never have to see this @$$ clown and his multiple personality disorder again. RCJH!!!!!!!!!!

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HawkKlaw 2 years, 5 months ago

“Probably that national championship game when he coached Memphis against coach Self, that’s one of the things I definitely remember about coach Cal. He lost to coach Self (in ‘08 title game).”

Haha...Should've taken that timeout Cal!

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UKBAllDay 2 years, 5 months ago

Alright enough. Y'all are crazy. This has got to stop. I came here to try and educate y'all about a superior program, but y'all don't wanna learn. UKALLDay is an unemployed UK fan that has been mocking me for two days and you guys are letting him get you all fired up...he's really hilarious. I am sure he will change his avatar to match mine soon and this post will be repeated by him so if you missed it tune out... FOX News is fair an balanced, but KU is unbalanced as hell. Show some respect to your superiors.

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hailtoku 2 years, 5 months ago

Sounds like our guys are sick of hearing about how good Kentucky is.

Calipari has had the #1 recruiting class for 3 years in a row. Shouldn't this team be ungodly? Nope. Not with Cal at the helm.

A decent team coached by Bill Self will always beat a talented team coached by Calipari.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 5 months ago

This is as tough a test for Kansas as Ive ever seen going into the 3rd game of the season. I hate using metaphors like "catch fire", but that is exactly what Tyshawn Taylor has to do; otherwise, their perimeter play will kill us mercilessly. Look for double-teams on T-Rob, so one of the other big men are going to have to step up and be a presence inside. Connor Teahan could really be huge for us tonight. No matter how you look at it, this game is going to have to be fought tooth and nail (scrambling after loose balls, hustling back in transition, and perimeter defense) if we are going to have a chance. This team IS capable of beating Kentucky tonight, but we have to be in sync as an offense and not play tight.

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Tony Bandle 2 years, 5 months ago

When I hear the word Kentucky, two words come to mind.......Wynona Judd!!

Need I say more??

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cool_beans 2 years, 5 months ago

Withey is going to drop the BOOM stick on Kentucky

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Rob Kanavy 2 years, 5 months ago

My big fat gut tells me KU wins by 6 or UK runs us out of the gym. I hope they are focused and ready. Tyshawn has to step up and be the leader we keep hoping him to be. T-Rob has to be the BEAST he is and stay out of foul trouble!!

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chriz 2 years, 5 months ago

Was Bill Self talking about a new rivalry suggesting a home and home every year with Kentucky?! I like!

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Alex Berger 2 years, 5 months ago

There does seem to be some guy who likes to dress up as an opposing team fan and yell obnoxious things. He did this when KU played Oklahoma and KSU too.

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ardy682 2 years, 5 months ago

This is awesome http://espn.go.com/videohub/video/clip?id=7216874&categoryid=2378529

In the Kentucky version of this clip I heard there is a moment where Cal is greasing his hair back and slipping a 100$ bill to Terrence Jones. Then they cut the clip short because they realized the UK program will be all irrelevant since all the wins will be vacated in 2 years...

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Woody Cragg 2 years, 5 months ago

Look out Oedipus Judd is back for a remake of the Voight/Reynolds classic. Waste of time trying to crack your nuts. None to begin with-squat to pi$$. So what if you're the banjo player from Deliverance, don't know, don't care. Like missery smack-down, we could be burning our trash with less effort. Kentucky state penal institutions have residents in the attic with more brains & less lice. Get back in bed with your momma-Ashley...Oedipus Judd-that fits rather well don't you think? Your inbred momma did good Homer, not very cute but charismatic to say the least. Now GTFO.

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Martin Rosenblum 2 years, 5 months ago

The last time HCBS and Johnny No Ring paced across from each other was in the NC game in '08. Since then, KU beat Memphis twice. Tonight, however, Memphis fans will be pulling for KU and for Johnny No Ring to limp off the court in defeat with his bad hips and foul mouth. And probably, the UMass fans also always pull for whoever his opponent is. He's just not a likeable guy!
(KU 92 - UK 89)

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Jayhawks Rock 2 years, 5 months ago

Let's play ball already. Geesh!

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Hawk4Life1000 2 years, 5 months ago

I don't know about the unemployed KU fan part but UKBallDay is an idiot....a good going back and forth is okay but this ridiculous.

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UKALLDay 2 years, 5 months ago

UKBallDay is an unemployed KU fan that has been mocking me for two days and you guys are letting him get you all fired up...it's really hilarious. I am sure he will change his avatar to match mine soon and this post will be repeated by him so if you missed it stayed tuned...

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Ben Kane 2 years, 5 months ago

i'm nervous. I like TRob's quote about them being in our way. going to have to come out hungry tonight.

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jaybate 2 years, 5 months ago

Hey, where is 100?

I am worried for his health.

He wouldn't miss this for anything.

100, are you okay?

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jaybate 2 years, 5 months ago

UKonvictucky.

Never rule they wouldn't break.

Never a point they wouldn't shave.

Erase their wins from the gambling seasons and it wouldn't even be close!

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Ben Kliewer 2 years, 5 months ago

I'll say it again.

What idiots have the time to make posting accounts on other teams' websites? I mean, seriously, who does that? Especially when your teams play each other once in a blue moon!

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manginorh00lz 2 years, 5 months ago

I've been looking forward to this game since it was announced. I'm really liking the non-con SOS this year. It will do much more to help prepare the team for the tourney than relying on "competition" in the crappy Big 12. Although, getting to play the south teams twice this year is a really good thing too.

I just think this year, the team will be better prepared for the tournament than they have been in a long, long time (2008 included - that isn't a knock on that team, they were loaded, experienced, special, and didn't need it (although one could argue the Davidson game wouldn't have been so nerve-racking)).

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Kenny Nall 2 years, 5 months ago

So excited for this one.

Time for my lucky boxers!

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jayhawker_97 2 years, 5 months ago

our bigs have to be more aggressive, get in the paints and try to draw fouls from them. that's one way to force them to go away. but, that goes the same for us, too. we can't afford to lose Withey or TRob early on. i can't wait!!!

rock chalk!

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William Blake 2 years, 5 months ago

"“I think it’d be a great home-and-home every year, wouldn’t it?” Self said. KU trails the series 19-6, all time."

My guess is Bill has found a new rivalry to build for KU (to replace Missery).

Great move! Just make sure to schedule them early every year... before their 5-star recruits figure out what a basketball is.

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texashawk10 2 years, 5 months ago

I love T-Rob's quote, "...they are in our way. We'll see 'em in the Garden." Terrence Jones, Anthony Davis, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Eloy Vargas, and Kyle Wiltjer better be ready to work their asses off on the defensive end trying to stop T-Rob. T-Rob will go off for 25 and 15 with the spot light on him in the Garden.

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Jabberhawky 2 years, 5 months ago

The subsection of John Calipari's Wikipedia entry devoted to "Controversies" contains eleven (11) separate items.

The subsection of John Calipari's Wikipedia entry devoted to "National Championships" does not exist.

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Scott MacWilliams 2 years, 5 months ago

Yeah, UK's got some GREAT history.

"The scandal publicly broke early in 1951, when the New York District Attorney’s office indicted CCNY and several other New York colleges for fixing games. Kentucky's involvement in the point-shaving mess was still to be uncovered when the #1 ranked Wildcats arrived in Minneapolis in search of their third NCAA championship in four years. There they met No. 4 Kansas State, champion of the Big Seven. Led by 7-foot junior All-America Bill Spivey and sophomore Cliff Hagan, the Kentucky Cats won, 68-58, and coach Rupp had his third title.

In response to media questions during the tourney, UK coach Adolph Rupp boasted “The gamblers couldn't touch my boys with a 10-foot pole.” The victory celebration didn't last long, however. Shortly after winning the title, the scandal overtook the Cats. Obviously some gambler had found an eleven-foot pole, as five Kentucky players, over three seasons, were implicated.

An Assistant DA said that practically every game Kentucky played in the 1951 season involved gambling. Groza and Beard, stars of the 1948 U.S. Olympic basketball team and now professionals, were thrown out of the NBA. Spivey fought the charges, but never played another game in college, was banned from the NBA, and his dreams of a rich pro career ended.

When handing down the sentences of the Kentucky players, Judge Saul Streit unleashed a blast against the school and Rupp, calling Kentucky “the acme of commercialization and overemphasis.” He further said “I found covert subsidization of players, ruthless exploitation of athletes, cribbing at examinations, ‘illegal’ recruiting, a reckless disregard of the physical welfare, matriculation of unqualified students, demoralization of the athletes by the coach, alumni, and townspeople and the flagrant abuse of the athletic scholarship.” He said that Rupp "failed in his duty to observe the amateur rules, to build character, and to protect the morals and health of his charges." And he especially reprimanded Rupp for his association with Ed Curd, acknowledged as the biggest bookmaker in Lexington."

Source: http://www.hoopszone.net/Kentucky/Dark%20Side.htm

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dmc8142 2 years, 5 months ago

kensucky has a good basketball team this year. Kansas has a great basketball team every year. I can't wait to watch this game!

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irish2255 2 years, 5 months ago

I will ignore all his opinions and stupid comments. I won't ignore the fact that he seems to think UCLA doesn't have 7 rings. You'd think a genius from kentucky would know better. I didn't think they hit the methpipe that hard on weeknights.

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hail2olku 2 years, 5 months ago

Rupp is a KU grad, you are welcome. Now go to bed, it is a school night and if your mom catches you up this late you are going to get grounded.

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kusportsdotcom 2 years, 5 months ago

How about this everyone- ignore the UK guy(s) posting on here. Can we do that? Just for a day?

He's obviously going to comment on this message, and he's obviously going to say a bunch of crap to rile people up. Ignoring a guy is the easiest way to shut him up.

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UKBAllDay 2 years, 5 months ago

You can cling to the past all you want, it won't save you. Pitino's a jabroni. Cal is the greatest coach of all time. Better than Krwyshevzkii, better than Williams, better than Self. You're all jokers. Duke, UNC, Kansas, UCLA... Nobodys. 7 rings. Greatest program in history. Rupp invented basketball and coaching. Y'all got nothing.!!!!

BigBlueNation!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Randy Maxwell 2 years, 5 months ago

Those 14 more wins UK has vs KU won't mean a damn thing tomorrow

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UKBAllDay 2 years, 5 months ago

First!!!!

Just like UK in all time wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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