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Tuesday, November 1, 2011

KU men’s basketball to field wacky lineup against Pittsburg State on Tuesday night

Kansas guard Travis Releford scoops a pass up the court after stealing the ball from Conner Teahan during the Late Night in the Phog scrimmage on Friday, Oct. 14, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas guard Travis Releford scoops a pass up the court after stealing the ball from Conner Teahan during the Late Night in the Phog scrimmage on Friday, Oct. 14, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

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Bill Self says playing Conner Teahan at the 4 isn't 'wild' idea, also talks point-guard depth

KU coach Bill Self talks about Conner Teahan playing inside and KU's point-guard depth for its first exhibition game on Tuesday. Self talked to reporters on Oct. 31, 2011.

KU senior Conner Teahan talks about potentially playing power forward

KU senior Conner Teahan talks about potentially playing power forward for KU on Oct. 31, 2011 — one day before KU's exhibition game against Pittsburg State.

Kansas University’s basketball team — which has won 37 consecutive exhibition games overall and 35 in a row in Allen Fieldhouse — will be taking nothing for granted in its game against Pittsburg State tonight.

“I think especially with the absences that we will have, we will be taking them very seriously,” 6-foot-6 senior Conner Teahan said.

The 212-pound former walk-on is ticketed to start the 7 p.m. contest at either small forward or power forward following the two-game suspensions of Tyshawn Taylor and Elijah Johnson, seasonlong ineligibilities of Ben McLemore and Jamari Traylor and injury to Thomas Robinson.

“I have a couple of post moves. We’ll see how they work,” Teahan added with a smile.

The Jayhawks do not figure to be joking around during warmups prior to this exhibition against a Div. II school. Several players who did not figure to be counted on heavily this year figure to play meaningful minutes tonight, which should get the adrenaline pumping. KU has just eight recruited scholarship players.

“Our numbers are so small, everybody’s got to play anyway. If you take two or three guys off the starting lineup, we’re going to be playing with walk-ons tomorrow,” KU coach Bill Self said Monday.

“I’m not talking about the ones we put on scholarship (Teahan, Justin Wesley this year). I’m talking about Jordan (Juenemann) and Niko (Roberts). Those guys are going to get in the game. That won’t be the same team that will be playing in the Garden (against Kentucky on Nov. 15) unless we have a lot of injuries. It will give those guys an opportunity.”

Self said Naadir Tharpe, Teahan and Travis Releford would start on the perimeter and Jeff Withey at center. The other starting slot would be manned by either Thomas Robinson (hyperextended knee) or Wesley.

Believe it or not, Roberts, a sophomore walk-on, and Juenemann, a senior walk-on, are Tharpe’s backups at the point.

“Those guys play against Tyshawn and Elijah every day,” Withey said of the point-guard trio. “They are getting good reps. They are going against the best every day so they are going to be fine.”

Juenemann concedes that getting in the game in the first half, “would be a first, for sure. I was talking to my father last night. He said, ‘I heard Tyshawn and Elijah can’t play.’ He was acting real calm. Then he said, ‘Are you ready for this?’ I said, ‘Yeah, dad, I think so.’ I have faith in my teammates, and they have faith in me.”

Releford might need to produce big-time on both ends if KU is to avoid its first exhibition loss since a since a 101-93 setback to Lisbonne Benfica on Dec. 28, 1995, in France. KU’s last exhibition loss at home was 93-82 to Australia in 1993.

Self’s teams are 23-0 in exhibitions in the last nine years.

“It’s going to be a different pressure for me being able to have this role and be the guy to look to score,” Releford said. “I’m not going to go into the game saying, ‘Oh, I have to score for us to win,’ but I’m going to be very aggressive. I’m very excited. I’ve waited going on four years now. Now that I finally get my chance, I’m going to try to make the most of it.”

Self and the fans likely won’t know what to expect against a Pitt State team that returns four starters off a 13-13 squad.

“My expectations will change with this,” Self said. “If you don’t have a healthy Thomas and if you don’t have your starting backcourt, that’s 60 percent of your team. Tyshawn and Elijah need to play at least 32, 35 minutes a game each. It’ll be a totally different look. My expectations are we play with some energy, enthusiasm and see how newcomers react when they have to play a lot.”

• Robinson hurt his knee at practice last Thursday.

“I’m not going to put him out there unless the training staff tells us that we should put him out there. He’s not close to 100 percent. He’s probably a week away from that,” Self said.

• Self on the suspensions of Johnson and Taylor, which will not involve any regular-season games:

“In coaching, you have certain rules and guidelines you follow regardless of the time of year it is,” Self said. “I told those guys back during the offseason I was going to sit them during the exhibition games (for violating team rules). I am not doing it to embarrass them, nothing like that. This is what needs to be done. I warned them, they did it, that’s the penalty. I’m not going to go back on that. We’re here to win the battle over time, not to appease the situation to make it seem like something didn’t occur. These guys have been great. It’s unbelievable how they’ve been from an effort standpoint, discipline standpoint, responsibility standpoint, so maybe the discipline is actually helping them. So I’m not going to apologize for that at all.”

Comments

Funhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

This will be one wonderfully wacky and hilariously hip game! Can't wait to see our team and go, Who are these guys? And, if we lose, we may get another ESPN Award for biggest upset of the year. Ya-hoo! "Fire the coach!"

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hawk316 2 years, 9 months ago

I'm actually happy for these guys to get a chance to "strut their stuff." This kind of exposure and extended playing time can prove very beneficial. I'm looking forward to watching these guys play.

In addition, more kudos to Coach Self for understanding the importance of discipline and for sticking to his guns. This will also bear positive fruit.

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Bert White 2 years, 9 months ago

I use to joke around at games and play a game I liked to call "Finding Niko" (spoof of "Finding Nemo"), where I'd know we'd have the game sealed as soon as Niko was tossed in. It'll be fun to see him possibly play more than a minute and see how well he has progressed. That and people knock Teahan as being slow and a liability on D, so it'll be nice for him to set the record straight as to if that is true or not and hopefully earn his "senior playing time" these first 2 games so we can know what to expect out of him during the season.

I gotta admit I'm actually kinda happy the injury and suspensions happened and weren't serious on both counts. The one big knock on this team is the suspect bench, so we'll get to see what the bench has and should help show the type of caliber this team will likely be (minus 3 starters = most likely only going to get better, so my theroy is look good today and the 8th, possibly look great with Tyshawn, EJ, & T-Rob).

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mae 2 years, 9 months ago

No doubt!!! I'm surprised we don't have more football players giving up and playing for real coaches on our bball team.

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 9 months ago

We still win by 30! Been saying it all along.

You can still redshirt and play in exhibition games, so this will let Self evaluate how well some of these guys will play in a simulated game. Personally, I think Self wants to give some of these guys that play so hard during practice some actual game time and he knows they can win (and win big).

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ParisHawk 2 years, 9 months ago

Only true freshmen may redshirt after playing in exhibition games. How many eligible freshmen do we have?

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Joe Baker 2 years, 9 months ago

Tharpe and Lindsay right now until BMac and Traylor get back.

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LAJayhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

We barely field a team at this point. No one is redshirting this year.

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RockChalkGuy 2 years, 9 months ago

Nailed it. (ignoring the last second sympathy call by the refs to give PSU a free-throw).

I'll admit I wasn't as confident that it would turn out this way...too many years of being a sports fan in KC, I suppose.

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mojayhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

Hoops are Hoops! Bring it on.

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Jeff Schartz 2 years, 9 months ago

Did somebody say "redshirt"? That is absolutely ridiculous! This team is thin as it is! We can't afford to lose anybody accidentally, much less, intently.

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blackhawkjayhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

This really is as low as I've seen our great university in 30 years.

Fights between teams, an ugly firing of the football coach, a huge scandal and prison sentences in the athletic department, one of the worst football teams we've ever fielded, last place in the all-sports rankings, enrollment dropping while K-State's is on the rise and now a precipitous drop in basketball recruiting off the court combined with 3 academic ineligbiles and two suspensions.

Being a KU fan right now is like living a week of Mondays. We have a mess on our hands. It's time to get it fixed. It's While it's important not to panic, some smart and decisive action needs to start rolling out of the AD and Chancellor's offices.

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jgkojak 2 years, 9 months ago

Some of what you said doesn't belong in the same list...

-Fights between teams - if you read Beyond the Phog, you see it was over a girl, and that was a couple years ago -- time to give it a rest, its over, not a big deal.

-We've fielded bad football teams many times.

-Ugly firing of coach? He lost the last 7 games with a good team.

-Enrollment issues - that's actually a bigger deal than all of the above and I believe it is being addressed.

-The basketball team? They're ranked #13. And I suspect our starting 5-7 players are as good as anyone.

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nuleafjhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

you had my hopes up there with your second statement, then I realized you meant MM

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jayhawkeresu 2 years, 9 months ago

I know! For a second I thought it was already TGIF! Turner Gill Is Fired!!!!!" But... its still only Tuesday and he's still here...

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Matt Bowers 2 years, 9 months ago

Blackhawk, I agree with what you are saying. Something has got to give. The responsibility lies with the student athlete, coach, AD, and Chancellor. Do they offer a class at KU for incoming athletes about the temptations, jersey chasers, and the spot light? Its like a three year episode of "KU gone wild."

Any chance at a link for this game? I would love to see this match up.

Rock Chalk

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Steve Gantz 2 years, 9 months ago

If '88 is any indication we can. We added at least one, Clint Normore, who played some key minutes in the final four for us.

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JHawk74 2 years, 9 months ago

If Thomas plays it will only be about 10-12 min for the game. Just to get his feet wet and get the rust off his game.

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Martin Rosenblum 2 years, 9 months ago

It is an "Exhibition Game", right? Why not gst the Legends of the Phog players back together and put on a Real exhibition?

Or, maybe Bonnie could loan us some of her players, just to keep the bench looking full.

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Ben Kane 2 years, 9 months ago

we will be fine. who cares if we lose the exhibition game. didn't syracuse do that and then win the championship two years ago?

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Ben Kane 2 years, 9 months ago

my bad, but they did lose an exhibition game and get a #1 seed in the tourney.

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BillSelf4Prez 2 years, 9 months ago

No, not at all. Do you watch basketball? Puke won it two years ago. Syracuse hasn't won it since 2003 and thanks for bringing back those memories.

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REHawk 2 years, 9 months ago

Best post yet, on this thread: Bonnie could loan some of her players. Seriously, if TRob's recovery might be set back, then chain him to the bench, even if we suffer an exhibition loss. Bill Self exhibits a smooth manner of painting over flaws in the veneer of his players. Gotta hope that EJ and TT are truly on the path to higher ground throughout this season. Coach's paint can must be running near empty.

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Bill Kackley 2 years, 9 months ago

Oh my God, I can't believe the pessimists on this sight.

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kushaw 2 years, 9 months ago

KU is going to win the National Championship with Niko and Teahan as starters. Book it!

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Steve Gantz 2 years, 9 months ago

Oh my God, I can't believe the optimists on this sight.

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Scott MacWilliams 2 years, 9 months ago

I'd like to cite the sight of all the optissimist's on this site!

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HawkKlaw 2 years, 9 months ago

I'm just glad KU basketball is back. No TT, EJ or TRob? Oh well. It's just an exhibition game people! Plus, we get to see some bench players in action. TT, EJ and Trob will be beasts this year. They're veterans, and while getting these exhibition games under their belts would be nice, they don't necessarily need it. The guys playing in this game need the experience more than anything. It's all a part of HCBS's master plan. Let the season begin!

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hawk4evr2 2 years, 9 months ago

Blackhawk you are spot on. Kackley this isn't pessimism, it's realism. So called fans like you need to pull your head out of the sand and admit to what is really happening at our great university. It's time that our leadership, BGL and SZ step up and start making some of the difficult decisions that need to be made. Without them, it's only going to get worse.

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Adam James 2 years, 9 months ago

Is this game being streamed anywhere on a replay or live.... I checked ESPN360 and they are not picking it up.

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Woody Cragg 2 years, 9 months ago

KSMO in KC Metro will televise live on ch 62 over the air, but other than that, am not sure.

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Woody Cragg 2 years, 9 months ago

This is a link I have found some PPV events (boxing, ufc) from time to time. You might try it & good luck. http://www.firstrowsports.tv/sport/tv-box.html#

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Cody Stumma 2 years, 9 months ago

We could play the walk-ons and still win by 20.

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Jack Wilson 2 years, 9 months ago

Observations -- from recent threads on recruiting, suspensions, etc: 1. Funny how some think that everything that goes wrong was planned by coach Self. 2. How can a recruit can be crucial, then when we don't get him, it doesn't matter? 3. Odd how some can think our depth is not an issue. 4. Defenders of TT are dwindling; some still think he's a team leader. How? Why? Was he ever a leader? He doesn't need to be a leader. Just play well, and don't be a negative influence -- those are his biggest challenges. Leadership isn't on the radar. 5. Most puzzling to me are the blind defenders of coach Self. Self gets all the credit for everything; he's God; when things don't go well, he gets none of the blame and is beyond reproach. I say "blind" because the facts don't matter. Self isn't human. He doesn't make mistakes, or bad judgments. And above all, he shouldn't be questioned by anyone who is not a D-1 basketball coach of an elite program. 6. It is embarrassing that KU basketball is in this position regarding its roster. There's no dressing it up. We might win, we might do fine, but because of poor decisions/results, KU basketball .. a top 5 program .. has Justin Wesley, a walk-on, as the first back-up to TRob and Withey; and Teahan as the potential the first 2 guard off the bench. It doesn't matter if Wesley or Teahan are studs. This shouldn't happen.

  1. Most importantly, why are we having the recruiting difficulties? I cannot understand for one minute why Kaleb T. would choose AZ over what KU has to offer. But it's not just him. That's one high school kid. Who knows .. warm temps in Tucson means women with more showing. It could be that simple. But it's the repeated major misses and inability to recruit big men over the past recruiting periods (counting this one so far). And it is the Selby fiasco. And the fact that 3 freshmen we recruited can't even play.
  2. On the flip side, I love the "sky is falling" posts. Not just criticism, or skepticism, or frustration .. the ones that basically say it's over.

But the season starts tonight. Glass half full.

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jgkojak 2 years, 9 months ago

My criticism is that recruits ironically probably have a concern that if they come to KU they'll sit on the bench for 2 years or only play 20 min. a game.

I have had this problem with HCBS since he came here - he seems to have a very rigid bench order and always seems to pare down to 7 guys at the end, and they are rarely the freshmen, as opposed to recognizing opportunities to play your bench because you have bench players with unusual skills that could be exploited in a particular game (NY streetball against Bucknell for instance).

I don't doubt kids like Tarc look at Withey and say "he's been here 2 years and he's only now getting minutes" - where they can go to AZ and play immediately.

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Jack Wilson 2 years, 9 months ago

I definitely think how Self handles freshmen is a negative recruiting tool. Unfortunately, teenagers are short-sighted. And they may ignore examples of when Self does play freshmen significant minutes .. X, TT, Marcus, the 2005 class, etc .. in comparison to other places that actually make major promises.

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nuleafjhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

HEM, most of what you're saying is spot on. The only thing I would say is that regarding #6, I was curious as to whose poor decisions you are referring. I think we have been recruiting very many of the right kids and some/most of them have made what I feel are bad decisions. As crazy as it seems, not everybody wants to play at KU and there could be a myriad of reasons, not of which seem smart to me!

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Jack Wilson 2 years, 9 months ago

The poor decisions I was referring to would lie with coach Self. Meaning, he made the decision to bet our depth at the 4/5 on Anderson and Traylor .. bad gamble. He somehow thought (his words) that the Morrises were a decent chance to return for this season -- perhaps that affected his recruiting approach of big guys, as it did with Lacey (a guard) and the "honesty" in assessing playing time. He made the jewel of our 2011 class McLemore, who won't play .. bad gamble (at least for this season). And really the decision to pursue Selby turned out poorly.

All this is Monday morning quarterbacking, of course; we all might have done the same thing, or worse. But it was those decisions, that led to the results. That doesn't change that we have the best coach in D-1 basketball. And we need to support our coach when things ain't rosy.

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HawkKlaw 2 years, 9 months ago

To be fair, most of us thought the same way Self did about the Morrii. In a nutshell: "Marcus is going pro. But is 'Kieff ready? Will Marcus come back to play another year with his bro?" You would hope that Self had inside information about their probability of returning, but it is anybody's guess.

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nuleafjhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

OK - thanks for your reply! RCJH

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HawkKlaw 2 years, 9 months ago

Wow, I actually agree with your post HEM. Pigs must be flying somewhere.

  1. I never thought Tarc was crucial, but it would have been nice to have him. (Then again, I'm not big on potential one-and-done's due to X and Selby massively underwhelming the Jayhawk faithful.)
  2. Depth is an issue, but not as big of one as most people are making it out to be (barring major injuries/suspensions). Our starting 5 still puts most other schools' to shame (what else is new?); hopefully our bench players can recognize their roles and execute at a high level.
  3. I am trying to reserve my judgement on TT this season. He will make bad off court decisions, but hopefully he can overcome that with his play on the court. He's not necessarily a leader, but EJ sure looks to him for guidance.
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Jack Wilson 2 years, 9 months ago

Ah, the transition to rational thought ...

I agree that the depth issues may not turn out to be a big issue .. but we are walking a tight-rope, hoping no one falls. One crash, and we are in a bad spot.

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kushaw 2 years, 9 months ago

Tarc was a must! It was a crucial recruitment that could set KU back even further for the next couple of years. I have no idea what the backup plan is/was (Maybe upshaw but I highly doubt it), but I am highly interested how Self is going to get him out of this mess.

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Hank Cross 2 years, 9 months ago

HEM - I agree with much of what you say, but looked at objectively it's not unreasonable why Tarc chose UA. UA is a BB school with good academics in a stable, destination conference. Go to someplace warm and visit places like LA, the Bay Area, mountain resort areas or play road games in places like Ames, Stillwater, and Lubbock. I'm sure Tarc knows that Derrick Williams got drafted 2nd last year, but all he may remember of who played in the '08 title game was that Rose is a star in the NBA and Chalmers had to fight all season for respect.

Now, if he would've chosen Mizzou, that would've been a different story.

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zkwku 2 years, 9 months ago

This is my first season away from beautiful Lawrence, KS. Does anyone know how I can watch these Jayhawk Network games on TV??

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FreddyinLA 2 years, 9 months ago

Rele will be going for Wilt's AFH record tonight.

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BigTimeJayhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

What channel with this game be on tonight?

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Alex Parker 2 years, 9 months ago

The game will be broadcast locally on KSMO/CBS: Channels 3, 13, 203 and 213 for Knology subscribers.

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AsadZ 2 years, 9 months ago

Gary, I wanted to post this comment on Kaleb's decison article but I cant get on it, perhaps its jammed so I writing it here. I really feel that you and/or other KUSports writers need to talk to Bill Self on his views on why KU is losing so many top recruits and what is he and coaching staff planning to do differntly to have greater success going forward.

There a lot of HCBS supporters, including myself, who are uneasy on recent recruitment losses and would like to get clarity on this subject. Thank You.

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Redlandsjhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

Well we knew this season was going to be "interesting." Might as well start the fun right out of the gate. Also haven't you ever commented during a game that "our subs could beat most teams?" Well tonight we get to test that theory once and for all! Seriously though I can see a lot of positives from this situation in regards to player confidence and development. I believe it will be a fun game to watch. Also regarding why did we lose Tarc? Just take him at his word. He just fell in love with the place and felt a connection with the team. No more than that. It happens, nothing sinister going on, Don't read too much into it and as Coach Self says "enjoy the ride"

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cool_beans 2 years, 9 months ago

no matter who starts, it's still better than watching the football team

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Robert Brock 2 years, 9 months ago

Due to the trend in KU recruiting, we need to get used to seeing wacky lineups.

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RockChalkGuy 2 years, 9 months ago

I've have been waiting for this day for a very long time. Let's get it started, Jayhawks!

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texashawk10 2 years, 9 months ago

I'm going to say that Jeff Withey is the reason KU didn't land Tarc. Not anything negative against Withey, but he is only a junior and will be back next season for Tarc's freshmen season which means Withey would likely start over Tarc and Tarc would come off the bench and not get very many minutes. UA on the other hand, has a bunch of 4's who will likely play both the 4 and 5 spots this year and Tarc will have every opportunity to be a starter at UA next season at the 5 spot and since immediate PT always seems to be a factor with recruits this highly ranked, UA had more of it than KU does.

If you ask me what's happened with KU recruiting the last two seasons, it boils down to the class sizes unexpectedly switching on Bill Self with the 2011 class ending up being about the size the 2012 class was expected to be and the 2012 class being about the size the 2011 class was expected to be. I don't think Self has lost it as a recruiter, he had a situation occur that was unexpected and KU didn't have many options because of the players left when the class sizes flip-flopped on Self and I think Self did a good job of filling the roster with a bunch of players who will be core players that will be at KU for 4 years. Anderson, Traylor, and McLemore being deemed ineligible definitely hurts KU this year, but with Traylor and McLemore being able to play next season, it's like adding two new recruits for the season which makes next years recruiting class look like Perry Ellis, Ben McLemore, Zach Peters, and Jamari Traylor which is a pretty solid class with the potential to add one more in the spring after T-Rob declares for the draft. I don't see KU signing anyone until the spring until after T-Rob declares for the draft so that Self knows that schollie is available instead of pulling Wesley's scholly and making Keith Langford pay his way again (although Langford can more than afford it). Nino Jackson seems to be the most likely candidate to get that last scholarship, but I wouldn't expect to see him sign until the spring signing period if he's still available at that time.

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texashawk10 2 years, 9 months ago

Andrew White may be a better player than Nino Jackson, but Jackson is the player KU needs more. KU is going to be a lot deeper at the 3 for the next several years than they ever have been under Self with Releford getting most of the minutes this year with Teahan and Lindsay backing him up most of the time and then next year McLemore and Lindsay will handle the duties at the 3 spot. The backcourt is going to be very thin next year with EJ (assuming he doesn't blow up enough this year to leave) and Tharpe as the starters and Niko Roberts and Garrett Christian as the only other 1's and 2's on the roster. A small guard is a much higher priority for Self right now than another wing player like Andrew White. I just don't see KU pursuing White as hard as they have been because that's not a position of priority like another smaller guard is at this time.

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kushaw 2 years, 9 months ago

Nino's grades are in terrible shape at the moment. There is no guarantee that he is even going to be able to play next season. Yes, Jackson likes KU, but KU can't just go after a kid that they have no idea that will be able to play next season.

KU absolutely can not afford anymore kids like McLemore and Traylor. White and Jackson don't really even play the same position so getting both would be sweet. At the moment, White is a higher target IMO than Jackson just because of all the unknown's with Nino.

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texashawk10 2 years, 9 months ago

KU is officially out of scholarships for next season right now, but with T-Rob more than likely gone after this season, that means KU will likely have one more available for the 2012 class. The only way KU has more than 3 total schollies is if someone transfers out or leaves early that's not projected to at this time like EJ, so I don't see any way KU could sign White and Jackson at this point. I also think it's very unlikely at this point that KU will sign anybody else until the spring because of the uncertainty with the scholarship situation until T-Rob officially declares for the draft this spring. By the time the spring signing period rolls around, KU will have a much better idea of what Nino's academic situation is and whether or not he'll be able to go to a D1 school next year. I just don't think Andrew White is a great fit for KU because of KU's depth at the wing and that KU needs to bring in a smaller guard as the final member of the 2012 recruiting class because as I said above, should EJ blowup enough to go pro, KU will be left with Tharpe, Roberts, and Christian at the 1 and 2 spots for KU.

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Nick Cole 2 years, 9 months ago

The scholies awarded to walk-ons are on a year-by-year basis. The only reason some are on scholarship this season is b/c we had some to give.

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Kye Clark 2 years, 9 months ago

Technically every scholarship is only for one year and needs to be renewed after every season. The NCAA is considering changing this, to where programs can guarantee multiple-year scholarships, but as of right now they're all year-by-year.

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kushaw 2 years, 9 months ago

Also, Connor Teahan is graduating so that schollie is a guarantee and was suppose to go to Tarc. Now, if T-Rob leaves than that is an extra schollie as well for a total of 4.

1)Ellis 2) Peters 3)???????? (Will get Teahan's) 4)???????? (T-Rob Decision)

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texashawk10 2 years, 9 months ago

How does KU have 4 scholarships available if T-Rob leaves? Teahan and Taylor are the two scholarship seniors so that's two scholarships, T-Rob leaving makes 3 scholarships so where's that 4th scholarship at if T-Rob leaves?

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kushaw 2 years, 9 months ago

What KU needs.............................................

1) KU desperately needs a "Rush Spot (3)". Hoping Relly can fill that void, but you still need a dynamic scorer from the Small Forward position.

2) Need a lights out shooter------Boschee, Chalmers, Hinrich, Collins, somebody to step up and hit big shots from behind the arc. I loved Reed and all, but I would prefer somebody that is more than just a spot up shooter.

3) True Center-Centers can make or break a team, but they can also mess up the flow of a team sometimes. I thought Tarc was a must get and I still think that way, but just because you don't get that one true dominate center.......doesn't mean you can't function without that position. Hell, KU did it in 2008 without a true center.

Even without a true dominate center like Tarc.........I would like to see a White or somebody else added to the class.

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Robert Brock 2 years, 9 months ago

Nino Jackson? Nobody has heard or seen this kid since last February! Nobody knows what state he resides in or if he will ever play hoops again.

Let's not lower our standards further after the disasterous recruiting mess we've just experienced.

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Tony Bandle 2 years, 9 months ago

Nino Jackson is but a phone call away. He has been a Jayhawk lean for a long, long time. He has Kansas rated high on his yahoo school list and says what an honor it would be to be a Jayhawk.

HCBS, though hesitant about some off-court issues with Nino, may still feel a Jayhawk in hand is better than two in the bush.

And I agree: McLemore. Traylor Peters Ellis and Jackson would be a nice recruiting class.

Coupled with Seniors Johnson, Releford, Withey and Young add Tharpe and Wesley and this team in 2012 2013 looks just great!!!

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Justin Daniel 2 years, 9 months ago

We need a scorer, I don't know which one would fit that description better, Jackson or White, but that has to be a priority. If we land a pure scorer this year, we can recruit a couple more bigs for the following year.

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kushaw 2 years, 9 months ago

Ellis is going to be a beast! He won't be flashy, but he is the scorer of that class! We need a shooter!!!!!!!

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kushaw 2 years, 9 months ago

NCAA, recruiting, and whatever goes on behind the scenes is going to come out sooner rather than later. The more people keep hinting and talking about this the higher chance somebody is going to break a huge story.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7177833/illinois-congressman-bobby-rush-compares-ncaa-mafia

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kushaw 2 years, 9 months ago

Oh, why do you think the NCAA is considering giving student athletes a 2000 stipend. IMO some sort of stipend should have happened years ago, but the NCAA is going to have to do something to prevent student athletes, coaches, parents, or somebody from breaking a huge story.

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rockchalkjayhawk4ku11 2 years, 9 months ago

anyone know where to find the game online?

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Kye Clark 2 years, 9 months ago

HEM might have hit several of these points. But losing out on Tarczewski is bad any way you slice it, and fans are right to express concerns. A few random thoughts on the matter:

  • Let's not just assume that Bill Self is running the only clean program in the country, and the only way we lost out on many recruits is because they were paid by other schools, or they were promised playing time, or that we were the only program who would make him go to class, etc. It's possible this happens on occasion, but with this many recruits lost it's not simply a case of "Bill told him he'd have to work hard & play defense to earn his minutes...". That's a cop-out. When you eliminate that excuse (and that's all it is, an excuse), you can start to make room for the possibility that some of the responsibility falls on Coach Self.

  • For those of you counting the 7 consecutive conference championships as recruiting currency, ask yourself: how many kids grow up dreaming of winning the conference? None. Does any kid say they chose a school to help hang a conference championship banner up? Nope. It's a nice feather in the cap, but let's not make it out to be something bigger than what it is. The losses to Bucknell, Bradley, UNI, & VCU carry far greater weight than our conference championships.

  • Yes we have Peters coming in next year as well as Jamari Traylor becoming eligible, but these are not the blue chip recruits many of you think they are. I'm not saying I'm not happy to have them, but these are 2-3 star recruits. Think of guys like Darnell Jackson & Sasha Kaun, who were not immediate impact players until their junior and senior years. Now consider they were both 4 star recruits, rated in the top 60. So while Peters & Traylor will certainly add depth to the frontcourt, we need another polished post player to compliment Ellis next year and down the line.

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Kye Clark 2 years, 9 months ago

(cont.) - Did all the conference realignment talk hurt KU? Probably not with Tarczewski. It's possible it has had some negative effects on some recruits, but when Kaleb made his decision the Big 12 had stabilized and basketball-wise is probably just as strong as it was before the defections. Similarly, I don't know that having a poor football team has much if any relevance on basketball recruits.

  • For those of you who think we're in a good position, and want to make the point that most schools would love to trade places and have our "problems", let me remind you - this is Kansas. We shouldn't be scrambling to sign players last minute who have played for 5 high schools or hope that we catch the eye of someone who has de-committed from a different school due to a coaching change. We should have elite-level prospects wanting to come here, not begging for guys outside the top 100. As fans are we spoiled? Absolutely. But it's not unreasonable to have a certain level of expectations given (again) that this is Kansas.

  • So what is the reason for not being able to attract better recruits? And especially big men? I honestly don't know. Available playing time? Nope, got plenty of that. Anyone that thinks that Jeff Withey is scaring off recruits hasn't been paying attention the past couple of years. Has Self mismanaged bigs? Probably not. Every quality big that has came through here has had success. Big Dub, Darnell, Sasha, Julian Wright, Shady, Cole, the Twins, TRob. The only exceptions are CJ Giles and Withey, with Withey still having some opportunities. That's a pretty impressive track record with the bigs. I can see some reasons with the guards (playing out of position, having to sit/red-shirt behind Brady & Tyrel), but still don't think we should be having the struggles to the extent we're seeing. So again, I don't know what the underlying issue is, if there is just one or if it is many different things, and what needs to be fixed. I'm sure someone will come along and dismiss this post because I'm not a head coach running my own D-1 program. To them I will just say - please go over to the football threads and chastise the critics of Turner Gill, since there's probably no one on these boards running a D-1 football program either.

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kushaw 2 years, 9 months ago

Okay Texas Hawk, Here is a link that shows the current scholarship situation. I actually forgot about Braden Anderson having to leave school so that actually opens up another schollie.

1)Kansas-11 Scholarship Players, which means they have 2 open available scholarships right now. (2)

2) Teahan and Taylor are seniors-that frees up 2 more scholarships (4)

3) T-Rob potentiall leaving could actually free up a 5th scholarship for next year. (Maybe 5)

1)Open Scholarship-Ellis 2)Open Scholarship-Peters

3)Teahan-? 4)Taylor-? 5)T-Rob-? (Maybe 4 or 5 depending on T-Rob)

http://theshiver.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=123&d=1317752410

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texashawk10 2 years, 9 months ago

I forgot KU had the open scholarship so that was throwing my argument off. I'm pretty sure T-Rob leaving only makes four scholarships though because Justin Wesley is using Braeden Anderson's scholarship this year.

Robinson (Jr.): scholarship, likely gone Tharpe (Fr.): scholarship Teahan (Sr.): scholarship, gone Wesley (So.): scholarship, could be pulled if needed Withey (Jr.): scholarship Taylor (Sr.): scholarship, gone Johnson (Jr.): scholarship Roberts (So.): walk-on Garrett (Fr.): walk-on Merv Lindsay (Fr.): scholarship McLemore, not playing but still on scholarship Releford (Jr.): scholarship Juenemann (Sr.) walk-on Traylor, not playing but still on scholarship Kevin Young (Jr.)L scholarship

By my math that's 12 scholarships which means 1 is open so KU has 3 guaranteed and T-Rob makes 4 scholarships. I also don't understand why if KU has an open scholarship then why didn't Self give that one to Juenemann because he is a senior and giving him that open scholarship doesn't affect recruiting for 2012 at all.

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jaybate 2 years, 9 months ago

"Regarding Players Being Paid and How It Might One Day All Implode"

Way back in the late 1980s Bob Knight reputedly said a good D1 basketball player often cost schools $150,000; that some players were making more than professors. According to Murray Sperber, in "College Sports, Inc.", it often came in cash.

Normal inflation would suggest that today's prices would be double to quadruple that figure depending on the player and school.

My question has always been: how do they get away with not being audited?

The bubble could burst if/when they are audited?

Why weren't players audited in the 80s, or now, or in between?

My guess is these large sums have to be laundered before being given to players.

Money laundering means using the same conduits that drug cartels and intel use.

That is a pretty hairy world to expose.

Maybe they will never be audited and things will never

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jaycon11 2 years, 9 months ago

it's the same argument with shoe company-signees. you often hear of allegations of inner-city nitwits getting the big payout with no follow-up from irs auditors. if player x got the big payout, through his ma as conduit, surely someone saw the escalade in the driveway, and the mink coat? the carelessly overlooked receipt with thousands spent on non-immediate needs? its one thing to launder money. its another to see that the laundered money is spent wisely. the second is rarely anticipated. there must be a 3rd factor at work which is overlooked by us speculators. perhaps there's a link between money launderers and tatoo parlors...

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HawkKlaw 2 years, 9 months ago

I often wonder this myself. It is apparent that a lot of college football/basketball players get paid fat (diamond jewelry, fancy cars, etc). The money is obviously not accounted for or else a lot of schools (including KU) would be in a lot of trouble.

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