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Friday, May 20, 2011

AAU coach: KU fans will love hoops recruit Jamari Traylor

Jamari Traylor, the No. 141-ranked player in the class of 2011, according to Rivals.com.

Jamari Traylor, the No. 141-ranked player in the class of 2011, according to Rivals.com.

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Jamari Traylor, who played basketball his senior year of high school in Bradenton, Fla., was born and raised on the South Side of Chicago.

“I grew up near Dearborn and State Street, right next to Sox Stadium, U.S. Cellular Field. I’d walk over there a lot and go to (White Sox) games,” said Traylor, a 6-foot-7, 220-pound IMG Academies power forward who Wednesday signed a national letter of intent with KU.

South Sider Traylor, who attended Julian High School of the Public League his junior year, played last spring and summer for Chicago’s Mean Streets AAU program.

The late bloomer, who didn’t start playing organized basketball until his sophomore year of high school, flourished for Mean Streets. He played on the same team as future college players Anthony Davis (6-10, Kentucky), Phil Greene (6-2, St. John’s), Branden Dawson (6-6, Michigan State) and Dee Davis (5-10, Xavier).

“That team was loaded,” said Mean Streets coach Jevon Mamon. “When you are playing with the type of guys who will play in the Big East, SEC, Big 10, you elevate your game. Jamari did that.

“Some of the dunks that he pulled out ... his athleticism and strength, dunking over people ... coming out of nowhere and getting rebounds ... he is a guy who is so athletic. He rebounds his butt off, runs the floor well and has great hands. His game has so much potential as he continues to grow as a player.”

Traylor averaged 20 points, 12 rebounds and three blocks this past season at IMG. He chose KU over Oklahoma State, Indiana and Texas Tech.

“I think Jamari can definitely come in and compete and contribute at the elite level — at KU,” Mamon said. “I’ve had the pleasure of working camps in the past at KU, and I’ve seen firsthand how coach (Bill) Self and coach (Joe) Dooley and (Kurtis) Townsend and (Danny) Manning develop players. I think he’ll flourish.

“The fans will love him,” Mamon added. “Off the court, he’s a very likeable kid. He has a great sense of humor. On the court, he turns into an animal. He is a warrior. He competes every possession. He is strong as an ox.

I don’t think the people in Lawrence will skip a beat in terms of missing the (Morris) twins. I mean, I’m sure they’ll miss them, but Jamari will bring a lot of the same qualities.”

Traylor will give KU additional options in a frontcourt that includes juniors Thomas Robinson and Jeff Withey, freshman Braeden Anderson and sophomore walk-on Justin Wesley. Junior Travis Releford, at 6-6, could be used in the frontcourt as well as the perimeter.

“Thomas is probably going to be a lottery pick next year,” Traylor said. “I know I can complement him, and he can complement me as well on the court. With us on the court, it should be really good.”

Mum’s the word: DeAndre Daniels, a 6-8 senior from IMG Academies, did not announce for KU, Texas or Oregon on Thursday.

IMG Academies had said Daniels would have an announcement Thursday morning, but that never materialized.

Daniels could decide today, or he could wait awhile.

He has let the spring signing period elapse, meaning he can only sign a financial-aid agreement, not a letter-of-intent.

The agreement binds the school to the player, but not the player to the school. Daniels in theory would be free to attend any school in the summer or fall.

Zagsblog.net has reported that Daniels’ dad favors KU. It has been speculated Daniels may favor Texas, but the family has been silent through most of the recruiting process.

Comments

ldjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

I do not blame DeAndre, in fact I understand him perfectly on that he wants to pursue his dream, which is reportedly playing at Austin. But as a man (DeAndre) and an organisation (IMG Acdemy), it only looks bad when they make a public announcement to promise one thing, and later fails to do so. I am sure many KU fans killed their computer by refreshing on this website on Thursday to look for DeAndre's final word and felt being let down.

Kyle Sybesma 3 years, 5 months ago

I've got a friend who works at IMG and says he's leaning tword Texas but the coaching staff thinks KU is a better fit. He saw Daniels phone and HCBS has been blowing it up.

Tony Bandle 3 years, 5 months ago

Good..at least HCBS is putting on the full court press!!!

C'mon Deandre..Father knows best. At Texas basketball is a diversion between football season and spring football practice.

jhawkr 3 years, 5 months ago

We have to hope his AAU coach is right on in his assessment.

With any luck he is as level headed and hard working as portrayed. Anything close to the motor and drive of TRob should be exciting to watch. And here's to someone putting out 100% and staying on board for 3 to 4 years.

Mr. Traylor, please pack your bags for Lawrence and get acquainted with your team and what the town has to offer this summer !!

jayhawker97 3 years, 5 months ago

get this: KU will have another twins, monstrous twins: TRob & Traylor! next season, KU will again rise to #1 defense team!

i can't wait! rock chalk!

bennybob 3 years, 5 months ago

ill be you my next paycheck KU isn't the top defensive team next year. UNC is going to average double digit blocks from its front line next year

JayhawkBigXII 3 years, 5 months ago

b-bob, everyone is aware you are a huge UNC troll from all of your prevoius bullsh*t posts. Sorry, but Roy doesn't coach defense very well, or hadn't you noticed? If you have been following his carreer at all, you would know he is all about the offense. You are funny though, b-bob. I'll take your next boastful paycheck. Proof: The last time KU and UNC met up, KU slaughtered the TAR out of UNC on defense and on offense.

waywardJay 3 years, 5 months ago

I don't remember him being listed at 220 a week ago... I think he gained 15 pounds in a week.... If only this sort of Weight Gain would Impact Withey !

Michael Pannacciulli 3 years, 5 months ago

Weight gain will probably just lead to more injuries for him. I hope this season he can actually stay on the court and get minutes each game to get a rhythm going.

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 5 months ago

Perhaps Withey should take up more of a Chicago diet.

Deep Dish Pizza all morning, Big Macs all afternoon, and Ball Park Franks all evening.

Worked for Sherron. Works for Jamari. Maybe it will work for Withey.

Then again Julian Wright couldn't gain a pound even if he ate nothing but pure lead.

Steve Gantz 3 years, 5 months ago

Not sure if you're from Chicago, but 100% Vienna beef hotdogs would be much preferred over Ball Park :)

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 5 months ago

I'm not from Chicago I base all of my knowledge of Chicago off of items that Michael Jordan marketed.

Hanes, wheaties, and ball park franks.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

If that's the case then everyone in Kansas is taking Viagra... afterall, Bob Dole marketed that....

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 5 months ago

May be true.

But I guess that would mean that I'm on Levitra or whichever one Nolan Ryan advertised.

anyway, I may not be an expert on Chicago style hot dogs. I did eat one on the Navy Pier last summer... but I do know for a fact I could gain 15 pounds in 3 or 4 days if I ate nothing but Jeno's pizza... mmm, love me some Chicago-style deep dish.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

Nice. Man do I miss me some good Chicago food.....

To quote Adam Duritz, LA is "a really good place to find a taco".....

Steve Gantz 3 years, 5 months ago

Me too dude, I'm now a LAJayhawk as in Louisiana. Got some good eats down here too, but nothing like a beef, a dog and a giordanos

KGphoto 3 years, 5 months ago

I still don't think Withey needs to gain much more weight. If he plays at 235 he'll be fine. Even 230 isn't really a problem. He's a tall thin guy. Lots of tall thin guys can succeed. Dirk is 7' 240. That kid from Florida, Parsons, is 6'10" 218 and he's at the NBA camp right now.

Jeff will never be a banger. He's athletic and long and he'll get the high rebounds and probably lose a lot of scrums down low, but he brings a shooting touch that will be tough to defend if he dials it in with Danny. I really think all he needs are some serious minutes to show us that he doesn't need to gain weight to be an impact player.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

You're forgetting the most high profile example: Durant is 6'9" and 215.

And Pau Gasol is 7' and 227.

KGphoto 3 years, 5 months ago

Oh yeah, I forgot about KD. Good one. But coming from LA you should know that Gasol is 250, and a bit of a banger.

I was trying to think of guys more similar to Jeff, as far as style of play goes. Not that he can do everything Dirk can do. But if I ever see Jeff dunk on Brendan Hayward like KD did last night, and then sink 25ft jumpers on cruise control, chalk us up for another title.

But if he plays like Chandler Parsons did last year, he'll be a key factor in another conference run, and March dance. I totally think he can do that much, and be a more serious defensive presence than Parsons too.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

No, I understand the style of play argument, and that's why I posted farther down that there are many different styles of big men. I actually think Pau is a good example for which Withey should try to move his game toward.

And speaking of Pau, I got his weight from basketball-reference.com which lists him at 227.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html

Perhaps that's an old listing. ESPN has him at 250:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/996/pau-gasol

I'm a Bulls fan and hate the Lakers, so forgive me for my transgressions. :-)

KGphoto 3 years, 5 months ago

Haha. Nice. I'm a bit of a Bull's fan too. I was so glad to see Kobe get swept and Phil pseudo retire from LA. Hopefully they are in for a nice long down period like the 90s.

As far as Withey and Gasol, I think that's a good long term goal, but it should take it's natural course. He shouldn't be forcing himself into a style. For now, dance with the one who brung ya. Agility.

lee3022 3 years, 5 months ago

ESPM said today that DD can still submit a national letter of intent within the next two weeks if he signed it before today.

Looking more likely that he simply enrolls which commits him also.

Jamari sounds mighty good for the 141st player in the country. His inexperience is likely what has kept him lower on the recruiting boards.

bennybob 3 years, 5 months ago

Or your reading KU sports website that is obligated to spin the best possible light on the kid to keep the homers happy.

The ratings websites rank these players for a living, they aren't wrong that often. the kid is ranked 141 for a reason........ he's not that good, definitely not to the level this article makes him out to be.

Scott Oswalt 3 years, 5 months ago

The recruiting websites are quite frequently wrong on the ranking of high school players. How do you know how good he is? Did you watch his two youtube highlight clips?

Matt Kenton 3 years, 5 months ago

They aren't wrong that often? Ha! Look at the rivals150 from a few years ago, before you post something like that. Maybe if you are referring to how good they are TODAY, but Traylor just picked up basketball three years ago and has huge upside. Plus this article mostly quotes his AAU coach. Of course the guy is gushing over him.

Tony Bandle 3 years, 5 months ago

Yeah, the ranking sustems did a great job on the Williams kid from Arizona.....let's see, they ranked him....NOT!!!!

JayhawkBigXII 3 years, 5 months ago

UNC bennybob is in dire need of a colon-cleanse.

lee3022 3 years, 5 months ago

It looks like the folks above have answered you well BennyBob. The recruiting services have anointed Duke, UNC and Kentucky with the top classes year after year. Kentucky, under Calipari has not won. UNC under Roy has won once. Duke under K has won a year ago. But going by the recruiting services they should have collectively won a half-dozen times in the past 10 years.

Recruiting services are not in the players' homes. Except for an elite few they have not talked with HS coaches. They have focused on those who play AAU and then only in top tournaments. They frequently miss out on players such as Sasha Kahn. Darnell Jackson, Marcus and Markieff Morris, Derrick Williams . There are dozens more playing in the NBA who went unrecognized in HS. It would appear that there are simply too many players to cover well. But coach Self and crew seem to zero in on players that are good teammates and will play team ball with defense first attitude. Top recruits are nice but good ballplayers are more plentiful. Players composing VCU, San Diego State, Butler seem to regularly win against top recruits. That is how I see it. I don't pay subscription prices to hear recruiting services gush over AAU stars. It does not seem to translate into conference championships and national championships very often.

JHawk74 3 years, 5 months ago

Remember Keith Langford he was not rated very high out of high school and turned out to be a great player for KU. If Bill Self is recruiting him he must have great potential. Bill Self said he can could guard all 5 positions on the floor. We can always use another athlete who can play defensive and Danny Manning can teach him to be an offensive player. The Morris twins weren't very good their freshman year and now they are going to the NBA.

Kevin Heath 3 years, 5 months ago

LOI had to be signed by the 18th. If not signed by the 18th it is invalid. Granted he could have signed it by the 18th and just not submitted it, but I see no point in that. Nobody is withdrawing a scholarship offer at this point so he has nothing to gain by having signed a LOI. The schools are already committed to him. The problem has been, is, and will be that he can't commit to a school. By not signing a LOI he doesn't have to.

Michael Sillman 3 years, 5 months ago

I keep seeing all of these postings about getting Withey heavier and it makes me nervous.

I hope that the KU trainer makes him stronger and improves his cardio but does not go wild on the weight thing. Withey runs the cort well and moves quickly to block shots.

Excess weight is not a good thing. I'd like to see Withey have more stamina than Cole Aldrich developed during his time at Kansas.

I've also always felt that weight gain ruined Eric Chenowith. In his freshman year, Chenowith ran the floor right alongside the forwards and guards. After the weight gain, he became a heavy-footed plodder and lost his impact on the game.

Andy Hess 3 years, 5 months ago

"excess weight"? Withey weighs a bit over two bills, for a 7-footer, and you're concerned about EXCESS weight? A true 7-foot center is not going to be out running with guards, he's going to be banging down low on offense and defense. bodying up big men in the Big 12. at his current weight, without the extra weight, he'd get thrown around like a rag doll by those guys. hell, Cole got abused occasionally, and he weighed in at 245-250 at 6-11. Withey's a legit 7-footer who only weighs 220 and you're concerned about EXCESS weight? ugh... SMH

xfitter 3 years, 5 months ago

Not every 7 footer is supposed to be 240+ lbs. Withey has been reported now as tipping the scales at 230, he may need another 5ish lbs but Hudy can add strength without adding weight to his frame. I know SHOCKING, that not every person the same height has a different body type right??? Excess weight will slow down the game for every player on the court, if Withey cant keep up and get in position down low then that weight isnt helping anyone. DA

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 5 months ago

I agree. Withey is very narry bodied. He's not broad like Robinson. Broad bodies can really pack on the muscle mass.

I'm also very narrow bodied. My experience lifting weights and drinking protien supplements is that I've doubled my strength and built muscle, and gained only like 5 to 8 pounds.

Withey will start to fill out, but that doesn't necessarily correlate to big weight gains, and it doesn't have too. You can bet though that if he does start to fill out, that his roster weight will increase more than his true body weight.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

This is a very narrow view of basketball. There are huge varying styles among big men. As I posted above, Pau Gasol is 7' and 227. That's basically the same size as Withey. And Pau is probably one of the best examples of who Withey should model his game after.

(and for any about to respond with it, please refrain from the "Pau is soft" argument... that is a point about his attitude and effort, not his game style).

Tony Bandle 3 years, 5 months ago

I totally agree...I say make him a shooting forward and be done with it. he'll never be a "goon" in the middle.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

"Some Possible Reasons Deandre Decided to Let the LOI Deadline Pass"

~Hates writing at deadline as much as print journalists do.

~Thinks his penmanship needs more work.

~Wants to torment his father a while longer for the 16,000 times dad has said, "Take out the trash, Deandre."

~It is taking longer than expected to return all the Longhorn merchandize after discovering Texas hasn't even squandered as many national championship opps as KU has won.

~Waiting for Barnes to stop marathon crying jag on his doorstep about Deandre's decision to attend Kansas.

~Stuck on hold calling 911 to alert them that Cal is standing on his roof and threatening to choke himself with mousse, if Deandre doesn't change his mind about choosing KU.

~Remembered he had to drive up to OKC and receive an honorary degree from the Carl Henry School of Division One Bargaining.

~Still waiting for in-home with ghost of James Naismith, who has been busy signing up the other four recruits before closing hard on Numero Uno--Deandre.

~"In the Spring a young man's fancy lightly turns to thoughts of love."

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 5 months ago

you must have rounded down from "the 16,300 times that his dad told him to take out the trash". Coincidence?

coloradojayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

+1 (or +300)

That was my thought exactly.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

I hope so. 'Cause if he took out the trash 2.3 times a day, every single day.... since the DAY HE WAS BORN... he STILL wouldn't have reached 16,000....

Perhaps that number came from the same place as Wilt Chamberlains 20,000 women.....

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

Jaylark,

Good points. Weight conditioning is a complex and tricky set of trade-offs and ultimately part science (calories in vs. calories burned, muscle mass vs. fat, distribution of muscle mass, etc.) and part art (guessing at how the preceding variables can be manipulated for optimal trade off on overall athletic performance and on how health will be affected by such acute intervention in diet and activity).

I suspect the truth is that players are not always optimized for their athleticism and ability to go 40 minutes. Perhaps Chenowith would have been better at a lighter weight, but perhaps Roy thought the team needed a big lug in the paint to contend with those on the opposition.

As we see year after year, in a team game like basketball, players are frequently being asked to play out of position, to curb one aspect of their potential and exploit another in a coach's pursuit of an optimal trade-off of talents to be combined into a team.

Every glue man on KU has a much more diversified game than he shows at KU.

And I suspect many impact players could do many more glue tasks than they do in any given game.

Weight and strength of each player at each position is a trade-off decision.

Tyshawn could easily muscle up to 220, and bang the heck out of a lot of guards, but he would lose some of that lightening quickness that is his most pronounced match-up advantage. And since other players can be muscled up on the perimeter to accomplish the same goal of banging on defense, Tyshawn is muscled up just enough keep him from getting pushed around.

Tyrel Reed could have played much lighter and been much quicker (as he was already the first or second fastest guy on the team striaghtline even at his muscled up weight), but Self had TT, EJ and Selby for lightening warfare.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

Brady could have added 15 pounds and walked around like Bill Bixby from the old Incredible Hulk TV show, but he would have lost quickness and speed needed for help defense and, besides, Self had Travis and Mario for muscle at the 3.

This sort of analysis can go on and on about every player.

In the case of Withey, Self apparently decided last season that the strength of the team would be playing a power game through the Twins on offense and defense. Self apparently decided that he needed his subs in the paint to be able to come in an play a power game, too. Thomas already could, given his enormous upper body strength, but Withey could not because he appeared naturally slender and not overly strong. So: Self probably asked Withey to put on the weight and muscle Withey would need to play a power game in the paint as a sub for the Twins. Self figured they needed him much bigger, to deal with the 260-300 pounders KU sees from time to time. He probably knew the team would mostly be slowing it down to play through the Twins, so he decided to forego Withey's greatest natural strength--his mobility which lets his great height and reach get to shots and block them. It made some sense too, because KU had skillful perimeter defenders that could funnel most guys right to the post defense. Withey, so the thinking probably went, could still block shots at a high weight, since the perimeter defense would funnel them right to him. No need for Cole Aldrich's Mad Stork mobility.

Withey certainly tried. He came in strong and heavy early in the season, and only seemed to need some experience to fit in.

Instead, Withey appeared to get very, very sick for an extended period of time, at least half to 2/3s of the season. He appeared to lose all his weight and strength gains and then some. He simply could not play the kind of power game Self had chosen for KU and for him.

The question this year is: what kind of game will Self choose for KU this season.

I have speculated that it could be a running game. That kind of game might be good for Withey to play at a lighter weight.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

But I have also speculated that Self had to be fabulously impressed with Shaka Smart's XTReme Conditioning of VCU. VCU did not win the game, because of KU's lousy shooting, though that certainly contributed. They won, because they ran KU's butts off in half court chase at both ends. None of KU's players could keep up for an entire game. Fatigue didn't make cowards of them, but it sure made them unable to compete effectively the last 5-8 minutes.

Wooden at UCLA used to beat most teams with superior talent and superior execution. But whenever UCLA met a team with equivalent talent and execution, UCLA always broke them by being in superior condition.

Because of the rise of whistle swallowing to keep the games in TV windows, and the sharp shift to XTReme Muscle played by heavy, muscular players (bigs especially), most coaches and most fans (me included) thought the day of the superior conditioned athlete was at an end. It appeared that the current strategy had to be big lugs banging for 20 mpg, maybe 30 tops in a big game, in rotation with other big lugs.

What happened to KU was that VCU starters could go 35-40 mpg full bore and do it with, amont other things, a 260 pounder in the paint. This denied KU's season long advantage of depth keeping the muscled up Twins and perimeters fresh by being substituted for 10-20 minutes a game.

Self obviously thought the 3 game in 3 day grind of the Conference tourney proved his heavy players were in good enough shape to go a full 40 in a Madness game if ever needed.

But Shaka and VCU proved the soundness of Wooden's strategy even in the age of XTReme Muscle and XTReme Cheap Shotting.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

If your team is in sharply better cardio vascular condition than an opponent, even an opponent with more talent, you run when you can, and in half court offense you stretch the cuts to make the heavy opponent have to run farther (Richmond did the same thing, but KU was rested that night). On defense, you hound them everywhere and eventually, when they tire, you can deny them all their bread and butter plays simply by fouling them inside and forcing them to run cuts outside, Their legs are gone, so they are always to slow to make the open shot materialize. And when they get the open shot, they are too tired to jump normally and their jump shooting (everywhere on the floor) tanks.

It is true KU had an off shooting night vs. VCU. But against a normally conditioned muscle team that would have gotten into a grind it out with KU, allowing KU to substitute more, KU's shooting probably would only declined to the 20-30 percent range and KU's superior talent and depth would have carried KU past VCU even on a bad day. We saw this very thing happen many off shooting nights during the season.

Instead, Shaka's XTReme Conditioning enabled him to stick with his best players most of the game with no drop off in performance. Self could not afford to sub much, or VCU would widen the lead. Self's draft choice players tired after only 10 minutes into the first half. An off shooting game turned into a nightmarish one.

Wooden came back from the grave to teach Bill Self, via Shaka Smart, a lesson he had forgotten in the age of XTReme Muscle.

The better conditioned team never cracks and so always has a good chance to beat a better team.

KU players are going to be vastly better conditioned this season.

During this off season Self has not only had to deal with an embarrassing early exit and loss to a younger coach. He has also had to deal with the twin ghosts of John Wooden and Henry Iba, probably Phog, too, whispering in his ear:

"We told you so."

Viggo3003 3 years, 5 months ago

So what you're saying is insert Bill Self for Kurt Russell in this video and we're gold!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9AajQn7b18

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

Viggo3003,

This clip you posted is very powerful, but it is not how I believe anything great in sport should be accomplished.

Herb's actions, as portrayed by KRussell, come from anger and a competitive fury, that comes out as a will to subjugate his team, to use the physical stress of conditioning to break them into submission. This is essentially a form of sado-masochism that some coaches have employed in many American sports from time to time.

The most famous, and IMHO infamous, example is Bear Bryant taking a team of unsuspecting Texas A&M football players out to a cactus patch of near desert outside College Station and running them and working them and depriving them of water and generally abusing them until only the toughest remained; the rest having quit.

I hate this sort of approach to sports, because it turns sports into a form of low level military combat mixed with sado-masochism.

The moral legitimacy of a coach having a master/pupil relationship with players depends entirely upon a coach acting to help any player become the best that he can be, not the most vicious, or the most able to bear pain, or what have you.

Coaches using Bryant's approach (and the approach KRussell portrayed) are not building players, they are building Navy SEALS. There is no arguing that this sort of treatment can forge teams and forge individuals that are phenomenally tough and able to endure pain and exhaustion with a resistance to breaking. But in sport the object is athletic excellence in pursuit of victory.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

Ratso Izzo at Michigan State reputedly became famous/infamous for having his players play basketball, especially rebounding drills, in football pads, and without whistles, with the reputed purpose being to teach his players to handle contact, but it would appear that an additional motive may have been to learn to play the game of basketball as aggressively and as violently as possible. This is a perversion of the game and of basketball players IMHO, but in an age when refs call fouls only intermittently, learning to punch opponents in the face, while taking a punch themselves, has certainly helped MSU basketball be one of the winningest programs in college basketball.

But winning is not the only thing in sports, even though sports fascists like to say it is.

Wooden I believe exposed the lie that underlies the Special Forces approach to training athletes to be tougher than the other guys.

Wooden very systematically and incrementally built up his players conditioning. He never, to my knowledge, ever strutted around the floor like a sadistic tyrant saying I'm going to break you players down to show you how tough you have to be. Instead, he spoke calmly and clearly and supremely rationally about the task at hand. What I have heard is that he put it to players like this: "I cannot promise you boys that we will be the most talented team every game, but I can promise you that we will be the best conditioned team every time you step on the floor."

The crux of basketball, of any sport really, is cardio-vascular endurance, not how tough you are.

Toughness, Wooden understood, is a psychological bluffing of another team. If you can use physical aggression and bluster and convince another team you are too "tough" to be beaten, it is a powerful bluff.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

But it is only a bluff, because no game is ultimately about "toughness."

If I can run your butt into the ground, if I can reduce you to grabbing your shorts, and gasping for air, if I can keep going relentlessly while you waste your energy on beating me up, if I simply will not slow down, or play out of control, if I can look you in the eyes as we run up and down the floor and let you see that I am not tired and that I am going to keep coming at you as hard at the end as at the beginning, sooner or later, all your confidence, all your "toughness," all your swagger, all your talent even, doesn't mean squat anymore.

And if I can communicate to you that my conditioning has been undertaken, because I want to beat you so badly that I have been willing to pay a vastly greater price than you have paid to be able to play to win, to be at my best, then you and all your threats, and punching, and swagger are reduced to the hollow gestures of a bully.

I do not believe for a second that Herb really "acted" the way Russell portrayed him.

What I believe Herb did was demonstrate to his players that he was going to take them to a new level of conditioning that they did not believe existed and had certainly not experienced. I believe Herb was saying, "We aren't as talented as the Russians, so we have to be better conditioned than they are and this is how far we have to go.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

I had a coach in junior high football who was a fanatic once, who ran us till dark, then had the parents line up the cars so the headlights illuminated the field and kept running us all till one by one we all dropped. We thought we had all failed. We thought our coach had gone crazy. Some parents thought he had. But what he said when it was over was this: "No one failed tonight. No one is going to be cut from this team for finally dropping. I love everyone of you guys, but I had to show you two things. I had to show you how far you could go. And I had to show you how much farther we have to go beyond what you can now go to be in the kind of condition I want this team in. Our team had won its little league championship with a perfect record the year before. He told us he wanted us to be better, to be able to play harder and longer, to be able to run every opponent we played into the ground, to never get tired in a game. And he said that was what we were going to do every practice for the rest of the season. And we did it. And we went undefeated again and we played the entire season without coming close to tiring in a game. We beat teams that had more talent than we had. We beat teams that were bigger than we were. We beat teams that were smaller and quicker than we were. And we did it not because we were "tougher," but because we could see in the eyes of the opponents when they began to tire, and that was when we really started firing out and closing for the kill. We were lean, mean football machines, not Navy SEALS out to win at any cost, by any means necessary. We were fearless, because we knew we would never tire. We were good sports, because we had no doubt that sooner or later the opponent would crack. We did not believe we were tougher than the other team, or more violent, though I suppose we could be because of our superior conditioning. We just knew we could execute better and longer until the other team cracked.

Wooden achieved this same sensibility probably at a vastly higher level with his D1 college basketball teams. Most opponents were beaten after the first ten minutes, regardless of the score, just as KU was beaten after the first ten minutes against VCU. The UCLA players never tired, never made mistakes due to fatigue, never got less crisp in their passing and cutting, never jumped less and less high, never called to their coach to take them out, never did anything but just keep coming.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

It takes a very charismatic and special kind of a coach to get players to condition for him beyond what other teams train for. Usually, on any team, there are a few conditioning fanatics, like Tyrel Reed was. But most players on a team are usually just conditioning themselves well enough to get PT, to stay on the floor and do their thing and get the joy of playing. These kinds of players cannot reach peak cardio-vascular conditioning without a coach like Wooden, or Shaka Smart. There is something about these rare coaches that so excites players about playing that they are willing to train to levels other coaches can't get them to do. It is not at all about toughness, or about boot camp sempre fi mentality. It is about taking yourself to a new level of endurance each day, even as you are working through the nuts and bolts of installing the components of offense and defense. These rare coaches can make it so you are not just trying to endure conditioning, but trying to master it.

Basketball players and football players are not by nature the kinds of persons that like to get in peak physical condition. They are highly talented persons that want to get in "good enough" condition to play the game at a high level.

Track men and women and swimmers and some bicyclists are the athletes that want to endlessly push the conditioning envelope. There is no "good enough" condition to run an 880.

Basketball coaches who can inspire (and the proper word is inspire) basketball players to train like track men are very rare.

Shaka Smart is clearly one.

Bill Self has to look inside himself and ask him if he is such a person, before he tries to expect it of himself.

I suspect this will be very difficult for Self. He is a big stocky former 2 guard who liked basketball, football and baseball, three games that tend to condition guys to "good enough."

But Shaka Smart proved "good enough" is not good enough, so Self has to look into XTReme Conditioning, or find himself losing ground to coaches like Smart, who can inspire players to XTReme Conditioning.

Hudy's weight lifting is fun compared to XTReme Conditioning.

But in basketball now, XTReme Conditioning of big lugs is the coin of the realm now.

Who ever can do it consistently has a chance to become the next Wooden.

DDDHawk 3 years, 5 months ago

Jamari-- Can't wait to see you on the court! Welcome to Jayhawk Land. You have just become part of a great family!

xfitter 3 years, 5 months ago

"Fat distribution of muscle mass"????? Jaybate, do you mean body composition, which is body fat percentage or did you mean fat mass to lean mass ratio? As a fitness professional this cracked me up this morning. Not lean mass, muscle mass or fat mass BUT fat distribution of muscle mass!!!! Way to talk out your *** there haha. Yes exercise science is a very tricky element of sports in order to get your athletes to their full potential for themselves and for the program. However, Tyrel could have been thickened up some, contrary to what you think Jaybate, i would almost garauntee that they kept him from putting on too much weight because they needed him as quick as possible. Brady was probably at the peak of what weight he could gain, i am positive that they were constantly trying to beef him up from the time he stepped on campus. Hes 6'3" and 180, gee Hudy really went overboard there huh? There is a reason Brady wore XXXL T-shirts under his jersey since high school, and its not for the slimming effect it has on everyone else. Hudy will do her thing, and have the players strength, cardio and weights where they should be over there summer work with her. Trust in Hudy, she's a genius!

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 5 months ago

perhaps you should re-read Jaybate's post.

he did not say "fat distribution of muscle mass." He said, "muscle mass vs. fat, distribution of muscle mass, etc"

Distribution of muscle mass as in, not focusing solely on upper body and making himself top-heavy, but adding proportional muscle mass to his lower body to maintain a solid foundation and elevate his ability to fight for position under the basket.

Jayhawk444 3 years, 5 months ago

So what's really the point of a letter of intent? Why would any athlete sign one and give up the freedom to change his/her mind later? It sounds like that's all that it does. I guess it does officially stop the recruiting process, phone calls, media hounding...etc, but I'd think for most blue chippers, they would take that option if it meant freedom of choice to the end.

Viggo3003 3 years, 5 months ago

That's exactly what I said when my girlfriend was pressuring me for a ring :)

selfishhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

It also binds the school to the kid, in that the school can only (theoretically) give so many scholarships. So if a kid really wants to play for a program, he'd be wise to lock up his scholarship early. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, lately it seems the top players don't want to commit to KU until very late.

Jack Wilson 3 years, 5 months ago

Back to Traylor and the conversation of yesterday -- just for fun, here's a thread where Quintrell Thomas committed:

And another thread -

Interesting to read the quotes in the article and the comments on the message board.

Just a note .. Thomas #149 at Rivals; Traylor #141 at Rivals.

selfishhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

I am happy to have Traylor and agree that there is a possibility we just got a 3-4 year guy who may end up pretty good. But HighElite's point is that the spin they are putting on a guy we normally wouldnt recruit hard is hilarious. Royce Woolridge also struggled in the rankings and how did that work out for us.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

Fair point. But phog is also talking about reps. Neither Royce or Quintrell were able to get in game reps due to those playing in front of them. Traylor is not going to have the same road blocks. Look at Marcus Morris: how much do you think it helped his development with the fact that Self had little choice but to play him a ton of minutes his freshman year? He got a lot of very important, high-level reps, which ALSO gave him the opportunity to understand what he needed to do in the off season to come back for his sophomore campaign a highly improved player.

Both Quintrell and Royce did not get the reps, and then changed schools before having sophomore improvement (although, that improvement certainly wouldn't as been as high as it would have been if they received the reps).

However, that is a separate argument from the "spin" point that HEM and you are making, which, as I said, is a fair point.

shoedee 3 years, 5 months ago

I really feel like QT would have been a solid player for us if we had had room for him on the roster back in the 2009-2010 season. Imagine, he would have been an experienced senior by this next season and have provided us with proven depth in the post, one of our greatest concerns going into next season. Here's an interesting question- in hindsight which is always 20/20, would you have traded Xavier for one year and a loss to UNI in the tourney for Quintrell and his tough rebounding and post presence for 4 years? Recruiting is a funny thing. I also feel like the loss of Royce is substantial as he would have played a lot of minutes this year and developed into a solid 2 for us by his junior year- in watching Royce a little, I thought he looked a lot like an undersized Keith Langford (who himself was undersized) but Royce looked like one of the more creative scorers we had in a long time, perhaps his two negatives being his size and lack of a consistent long-range game. But I liked him and feel like his loss as a 4 year guard in our program will have subtle but a real impact. I think big men like Traylor and Anderson can be solid guys for us and help us win- look at what the Harrellson kid did for UK this year- I wonder what he was ranked coming out- anyone know?

Jack Wilson 3 years, 5 months ago

A comment from Self on Quintrell Thomas near the time he signed:

Said Self: "Quintrell Thomas is an athletic, quick-twitched, prototypical power forward. His offensive game is one that is expanding. Quintrell has played for one of the very best high school basketball programs in the country at St. Pat's. Quintrell will give us an element of toughness, and his defensive rebounding will be something we look to early in his career."

And another:

At 6-foot-7, 241 pounds, Thomas is an inch shorter and nine pounds lighter than Jackson was last year. But in Self's analysis, the comparison goes beyond stature. "(Thomas) is an athletic power forward," Self said. "His offensive game is one that is expanding. He's going to give us an element of toughness, and his defensive rebounding will be something we look to early in his career. He is explosive, a great runner, jumper. He does remind me of Darnell when he first got here."

I'm not saying Traylor will go the route of Thomas. My points have been that we should not get overly excited here. But some persist in saying he will make a huge impact, or reminds them of Derrick Williams. Perhaps one should get overly excited about Daniels if he signs .. then disappointed if he doesn't live up to the ranking. But with Traylor .. let's just wait and see. Let's not create these unreasonable scenarios that don't fit, and let's not be overly abundant in the praise of coach Self for "landing" a player of Traylor's lack of stature.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 5 months ago

HEM!! Shhh! People will think you aren't drinking the Kool-Aid! In all seriousness, Quintrell Thomas has developed into a decent player..just not at KU. I think (hope) that Jamari Traylor will get a lot more playing time and will be a solid rebounder helping out TRob. Still hoping DD will come to KU but this kid wants to be here. Always a plus.

bennybob 3 years, 5 months ago

I got your back when the homers start beating on you, we rational fans have to stick together

lv_jhwk 3 years, 5 months ago

Just because your opinion is the opposite does not make it any more rational. I'm not saying its entirely wrong, but its not necessarily right either. (If you can't tell, my take is probably rather centrist.)

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 5 months ago

HEM is a repected member of this online community, if not because he is courteous and agreeable, at least because he always makes valid points and gives strong evidence.

you however only use aggressive negativity with the intent of stirring up dissenion and then try to ride the coattails of commenters who present logical yet differing opinions from the majority.

In other words, you're the crazy guy who I wouldn't want to have my back because I know that eventually you're just gonna do something crazy and it isn't going to end well for me.

bennybob 3 years, 5 months ago

Well thats your opinion, too which i would ask you to provide examples.

firstly, what has there been positive to talk about since i started on this board? another early exit for our hawks? a terrible recruiting class that i have been saying is a problem since december?

we won another conference chamionship, woppdie freaking doo! I know the likes of duke, kentucky and UNC just love to boast about how many conference titles they win.

i may tilt to the negative with my perspective, but i have never criticized any other poster (like you just did to me) on this board that didn't call me out directly. i use the terms "homer" and "kool-aid drinker" in the generic term encopmasing people who's fandom blinds there objectivity.

I have been saying Self was struggling on the recruiting trail for 6 months, if that's not proof of me making credible arguments i dont know what else i can do.

Tony Bandle 3 years, 5 months ago

Rational fan.....isn't that an aximoron!!??

JayhawkBigXII 3 years, 5 months ago

bennybob, you are about as far from being a rational fan as you are an intelligent UNC fan. Please go home.

AverageCitizen 3 years, 5 months ago

You obviously don't know the definition of a fan. Fan is short for fanatic and that definition is "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion". YOU"RE the one who isn't a fan.

Jack Wilson 3 years, 5 months ago

You are right on .. I think that Traylor has the chance with work to develop into good player. And Manning is the man. My sole suggestion has been to not expect too much. And certainly not to expect a significant impact as a freshman.

And I'm not bashing him. Just imparting what I think to be reality. Which, of course, could be wrong.

Hank Cross 3 years, 5 months ago

QT turned out to be a decent D1 player. Not a star, but definitely serviceable. If JT turns out to be a QT type, it isn't the end of the world. I'm not expecting them to be in the hunt for the NC next year. Just use next year to rebuild.

selfishhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

You rebuild by signing a major freshmen class with lots of potential over the next 2-3 years. We didn't do that (yet)! We got an undersized guard (Tharpe), an undeveloped but athletic wing with potential character and academic issues (BMac), and two undersized big men projects who have a 50/50 (at best) chance of working out (Anderson, Jamari).

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 5 months ago

I don't have a problem with DeAndre Daniels' delayed decision. Mainly because of this reason "the family has been silent through most of the recruiting process". It's not one of those situations where they're out trying to sell thie kid and publicize him and get as much attention as possible. They're just gridlocked in trying to make the right choice.

Don't dismiss DeAndre Daniels for his disinclination to make a hasty decision. Don't destroy him if he determines that Texas is his destination of choice either.

Jayhawk444 3 years, 5 months ago

Agree - this is way better than hearing an endless stream of quotes from Daddy

d_prowess 3 years, 5 months ago

While I don't have a problem with the delayed decision, this whole thing has to raise questions about the decision-making and support structure around this kid. While choosing a school is a big decision, he has had almost a year to make it. He has to have all of the information by now and has had plenty of time to talk with everyone in detail about it. This sounds like a classic case of analysis paralysis.

brooksmd 3 years, 5 months ago

"hasty decision?"...Originally commited to UT in 09. A year later he backs out and then last winter announces he will enroll at KU for the spring semester along with Garrett. I think he's way past making a hasty decision. And if it's between him wanting to go to UT and his dad favoring KU, I want him to go to UT. If he can't see the advantages of playing at KU over UT (perennial runner-ups to KU and UT football), then by all means go to UT.

AverageCitizen 3 years, 5 months ago

He never announced he was attending KU in January. The family has never said a peep since decommiting from Texas.

brooksmd 3 years, 5 months ago

You're right. He announced he was considering it. Make you feel better?

jayhawkinATL 3 years, 5 months ago

The article is from a couple of days before Jamari's announcement, but you would think his looming decision would have been mentioned.

jdhawk1988 3 years, 5 months ago

Oh No DD didn't sign a LOI and get locked in to a school that he obviously isn't 100% committed to at this time. Instead now all he can do is sign a finacial aid agreement that gives the player all the power and the school none of it, if the player changes his mind.

Think of it in plain people terms, he has the option to go work for what ever company he wants rather then signing and excusive agreement with a company he is not sure he wants to work for. How many of you would leave your job for another company if you couldn't work for 1 year. By choosing the wrong school that is exactly what could happen to him.

More power to DD, I am suprised more students dont do this

Tony Bandle 3 years, 5 months ago

Come on..at the very least, Jamari will provide a big body in practice and provide five hard fouls to protect TRob or Jeff. That's better than where we were three days ago. Besides, if Deandre Daniels is your teammate, my guess is the focus isn't probably on you.

The videos don't lie. this kid can move and this kid can dunk.

As a high school senior, athleticism-wise, he is already ahead of the Morris Twins when they came in as freshmen [I hope he doesn't own an air gun!!]

Jack Wilson 3 years, 5 months ago

You're correct .. I'm more responding to the crazy expectations some have suggested, the suggestion that he'll be an impact guy next season, that he's a big signing, that he compares to Derrick Williams, and that we should be excited about this signing. He is exactly what you suggested he will be. And if he's better after a few years, terrific. He filled a need for depth, for now.

Steve Gantz 3 years, 5 months ago

Always good to see Chicago players sign with the Jayhawks!

Chris Bailey 3 years, 5 months ago

The point to many people being upset is that we were suppose to hear a decision on Wednesday then it was pushed back to Thursday. I don't think anyone would care if he said look I need another month to decide then if he announced earlier fine. Look if he's not ready to sign that's fine. I'm sure just as much as we want him Texas wants him equally. Making a decision like this is tough especially when you aren't 100% sure oh and you're an 18 year old young man. I perfer he doesn't make his decision until he has made up his mind 100%. I don't want a player like this coming and not thinking he made the right choice. My gripe (and many others) is that we would quit hearing he's making announcement then he moves it. If you're not ready fine. You make YOUR deadline and tell us when you are good and ready. I get that. Just stop teasing us! My refresh button is gonna wear out!

jdhawk1988 3 years, 5 months ago

it's funny as I haven't seen him say anything at all about making a decision. His coach did, bu the hasn't said I will announce on X date.

Don't hate on a kid for wanting to make sure of something that is life changing

Jack Wilson 3 years, 5 months ago

As a guy who really has confidence in Travis Releford, the Daniels deal is a no lose situation. If we get the guy, great.

If not, Releford will be given the opportunity to show what he's got. He'll be a junior. Lots of practice time, lots of improvement. It was obvious that he worked on his outside shot in advance of last season. A possible 40% guy from 3 if we're lucky. Plays major defense, great to match-up against the big 3 guy in the Hamilton mold, or vs. the best guard. Can get to the hoop. Wide range of skills.

Perhaps now I'm the one that's too giddy.

Even if we get Daniels, I could see both Daniels and Releford starting, with one working through the 4 spot.

Whether we get Daniels or not, our two main issues next season will be three point shooting and post play (outside of TRob). It is what it is.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 5 months ago

If Self gives EJ enough time for him to no longer worry at being pulled for every mistake, he could very well be the 1st option for the 3. Ben also has shown range (albeit the HS level) and add Releford, we could have success w/our 3 pnt shooting. My biggest complaint with Self's coaching is that he doesn't let Freshman make Freshman mistakes. Just my opinion.

tis4tim 3 years, 5 months ago

Minor bone of contention: Self does let freshmen make freshmen mistakes. He just doesn't afford them an immediate chance to atone for those mistakes.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 5 months ago

I hope you are right..all 3 have plenty of experience just not so much as a unit.

martyks 3 years, 5 months ago

Oh Puuuuuuulllllllease! Weight gain ruined Eric Chenowith???? Be serious! Partying and softness ruined the CheNOwith. Sorry, but that guy did less with more than any basketball player at KU with the only exception of Josh Selby. They are 1 and 2 on my list of the all time under achievers at KU... and they're a pick 'em as to who was worse. I think they each played one good game. Cheno had more time to do less with though.

KGphoto 3 years, 5 months ago

I'm not a huge Chenowith fan, but I'll say he wasn't that much of an underachiever. He always looked terribly weak and immature. I think everybody expected him to develop into the next Raef, but he just never had the raw physical ability.

He has a pretty nice list of accomplishments at KU too.

http://www.asia-basket.com/player.asp?Cntry=KOR&PlayerID=6320&AmNotSure=1

Surprising. I think he never got much credit for that because his character was a tad wimpy, like a kid trying to fit in. Again I think that was the shadow of Raef. But also I think he didn't get much credit because the teams were never ranked #1 or went to a Final Four.

I mean, he was playing with Jeff Boschee, Nick Bradford, Ryan Robertson, TJ Pugh, Kenny Gregory and Lester Earl in '98-'99. That's a big drop off from Raef, Paul, Jaque and company to say the least.

He did allright.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

First off, the correct re-pronounce is Chenoworthless.

Second, I met Chenowith a handful of times as he lived down the hall in the towers from my girlfriend at the time. He used to hit on my girlfriend's roommate all the time.

My favorite story of Eric was when he was in Strong Hall looking to make some change to his schedule (before that was all done online), and he did not have his student ID. The women at the desk wouldn't let him do anything with out his KUID. Eric repeatedly tried to get in, but she wouldn't budge. Finally, he looked around the room and saw a men's basketball poster on the wall. He walked over to it and pointed at himself saying, "There! That one is me!!"

Classic.

boomrsoonr26 3 years, 5 months ago

For us to say that Texas wants DeAndre just as bad as we do, well thats just not true. I guarantee Texas fans havent been watching and refreshing their UTSports.com equivelant like most of us have. I can honestly say that we are watching this sooo closely b/c the fanbase believes we need this kid to compete next year for a Big 12 minus 2 title. UT fans are only refreshing their page to see if Mack Brown killed Austin Box. Too soon?

boomrsoonr26 3 years, 5 months ago

Sorry, texassports.com. It was ugly orange and had UT all over it, so I ran with it.

Ron Franklin 3 years, 5 months ago

Is a 6' 8", 180 pound, non-aligned teenager really that important of a piece to next years puzzle of success??

Of course, I could always be wrong, but a guy like this won't be ready for elite competition for at least one year in Self's system. Self Ball is not an easy style to become accustomed to, and the fact that DD will likely be 1&Finished, I don't think he fits the KU Bill anyway.

Jamaal25Chiefs 3 years, 5 months ago

It makes me sick that so many Kansas fans don't appreciate that we have the success to land 3, 4, and 5 star recruits. . . You people judge this kid as if you have played against him, as if you are Wilt Chamberlain or something. . . This kid is VERY, VERY talented. . . Started playing organized basketball in his Sophmore year and made it in the top 150 players in the NATION?! Thats quite a great achievement! Danny Manning will tune his skills and make him a great player, His body style and build is almost exactly like Thomas Robinson. Who cares if he is a 3 star, 4 star, 5 star or no star. . . . Where on that Star chart does it rate a players work ethic? Hard work? or heart? . . . . No where! So stop complaining we as Kansas fans are very spoiled and fortunate to even land a 3 star recruit! Be thankful! My gosh.

theend 3 years, 5 months ago

Stop whinning, crybaby. Maybe we are just a bit tired of hearing how good some recruit is.....only to see them be miserable failures.

Jamaal25Chiefs 3 years, 5 months ago

We are spoiled to even have 5 star recruits. . . Whining? Cry baby? . . . I was putting the cry babies in place. . . You must be one of them right? . . . .

theend 3 years, 5 months ago

Hilarious......all of you people that get so excited about recruit. Recruits mean nothing.....absolutely nothing until they play. All they are is potential. I would think you would have learned that after KU's recent experience.

Frankly.....I'm tired of "experts" telling me how good these recruits are. And if you're also a chiefs fan......maybe you noticed how many of their draft choices have been miserable failures???

Sorry.....I refuse to get excited . Never again.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

Recruits mean nothing...absolutely nothing until they play?

Hmm, you talk about these recruits as if they are not human beings.

Of course they mean something before they play. They mean something the minute they become part of the team.

They mean something to me, regardless of their number of stars.

Of course they have potential and hopes and dreams.

And of course some will fail and others will succeed.

And of course some are better than others.

That all means a heck of a lot to me.

I've never seen a team win a ring without subs and bench warmers. Never. Every ring team I have ever seen had subs and bench warmers. its kind of a structural thing, ya know?

I care about Jamari.

I care about Nadiir, about Braedon, about Ben Mac.

I refuse not to care.

I want them all to succeed in order to avoid the blow of failing in pursuit of their young dreams.

And why shouldn't we get excited about these recruits, or any recruits?

Everyone of them that Self signs usually can play some role, or other, that the team needs filled, even if it is playing on the scout team.

I wish Rolls Royce Woolridge would have stayed. I wish he could have been happy playing some role, or other on the team. But I care that he wanted a role we didn't have and want him to succeed in finding that role elsewhere.

Danny Manning washed socks and jocks for a year or so, when he decided to try coaching. Washing socks and jocks was important the year he did it. Its is important every year.

I'm a little tired of "experts" saying guys who sign with KU and are willing to come and bust their butts to try to help the KU team keep getting better mean nothing, absolutely nothing.

If Self signs you, you mean something.

It means you are a Jayhawk.

You are one of us.

How can I get tired of caring about players that want to be one of us, regardless of how many stars some knob at a keyboard gives them, as he tries to suck access from some shoe whore, or AAU pimp?

But I can get tired about board rats not caring about the recruits.

But only a little tired. :-)

Its an awesome day where I am today.

Rock Chalk!

theend 3 years, 5 months ago

Jaybate......I have a news flash for you......your radical leftist utopia does not exist......and never will. Your "glorious leader" Obama is a failure. Take down your shrine and stop walking around in your liberal Obama trance!!!!

I like you, Jaybate. You mean well.....which says a lot. But you're wrong.

JayhawkBigXII 3 years, 5 months ago

...and you are right? Although it is still a FREE country, perhaps you should refrain from dragging politics into these posts. What's next, religion? You sound like a very angry person.

theend 3 years, 5 months ago

Quiet, crybaby. You sound like a marxist.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

Hey, theend, this is really fun...

theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist.

But I still don't get the connection to KU hoops.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

thend....I have a news flash for you, too. I like you, theend. You mean well.....which says a lot. But you're wrong. And I discern you have marxist leanings.

But again, what has this to do with KU hoops?

theend 3 years, 5 months ago

Hilarious......all of you people that get so excited about recruit. Recruits mean nothing.....absolutely nothing until they play. All they are is potential. I would think you would have learned that after KU's recent experience.

Frankly.....I'm tired of "experts" telling me how good these recruits are. And if you're also a chiefs fan......maybe you noticed how many of their draft choices have been miserable failures???

Sorry.....I refuse to get excited . Never again.

Viggo3003 3 years, 5 months ago

Ahyyy no worries mate, it will all be over at 6PM tomorrow....... or so they say.

theend 3 years, 5 months ago

Aye.....good on ye ,mate. Son of John Bull.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

Regarding Quintrel Thomas, in retrospect, his problem was probably not lack of talent. And I don't believe for a second that Self wanted him to leave. I believe Self wanted him to do what DBlock did. Accept his limitations and labor for a couple years of practices to finally get his game to a serviceable level.

I believe Self and Quintrel had one of those bad fits personality that lead a player and coach into conflict that ends with a player leaving. Essentially, Self thought Quintrel, who perhaps viewed himself as a something of an enforcer type, was no where near tough enough and not sufficiently trusting to adapt his game to what the team needed. Self probably put him in the toughening box and QT said, "This kind of treatment is not my style."

Quintrel was probably not ready for Self's and Manning's level of demanding-ness (probably not a word). He probably thought he was good enough to play that first season and lacked the innner self esteem to let him put up with what Thomas Robinson put up with his first season. TRob basically got bench sores his first season, and looked worse and worse as the season went on until he finally disappeared. The same thing happened to Quintrel. He played some minutes early, then began to deteriorate under that steady onrush of teaching and reformatting of his game.

Board rats seem to underestimate just how brutal it is for big men's self esteem to come into KU and discover that:

a) they can't play at a D1 level yet; and

b) their fundamentals and mechanics are going to take a long time to fix; and

c) they're are a long way from home and there is no one to cry to that will be very simpathetic.

Self liked QT, or he wouldn't have helped place him with Okie Baller Lon Kruger at UNLV.

If I recall correctly, QT was kind of caught up in all the make room for XHenry and Jeff Withey stuff.

Self probably wanted QT to red shirt and QT maybe resisted.

Anyway, comparing Jamari Traylor to QT is not a bad comparison and IMHO cast no diminishment on Traylor.

QT could have been a big, big help to the KU program, if he had not gotten ticked off at either Self, or one of the other coaches.

If I recall correctly, he would still be here this coming season and that would make us a whole lot better inside just because of his experience and muscle from weight training, even if only as a 10-15 minute back-up, though I suspect he would have been a 20-25 mpg banger type.

Frankly, QT's leaving the team created the hole in our team downstream that finally did us in against VCU. Had Quintrel Thomas stayed at KU, he would most certainly have been the bookend to TRob that last year's team needed to survive a bad performance against a superior conditioned VCU team.

Quintrel was not a a great player, but he could certainly have bulked up and played XTReme Muscle for us inside for 10-20mpg, as a four big man rotation needs.

theend 3 years, 5 months ago

I discern from you a political lean toward the radical left......a liberal. Perhaps a marxist.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

Hey, theend, this is really fun...

theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist.

But I still don't get the connection to KU hoops.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 5 months ago

It is more of an unwritten rule then anything else, but politics are rarely brought up. Rankings, recruits, let downs, anything about KU sports are fair play. There are much better forums for politics. Even if jaybate is a member of 'code pink'. Just joking jay..no malice intended.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 5 months ago

QT started his 1st season at UNLV at 6'8 245 lbs. Solid numbers with several double doubles. With 2 more years, he might be the enforcer he had visioned for himself. Not going to guess at his relationship with Self (I would have said Arnold & Maria were tight a week ago or so) I don't agree about QT not wanting to redshirt, transferring is basically the same thing. I just think he didn't envision the twins leaving and him ever getting enough time on the court. It's too bad because he would have had 2 years left and been a valuable player.

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 5 months ago

I agree with this vantage point.

" just think he didn't envision the twins leaving and him ever getting enough time on the court."

Self gave the twins lots of PT, and QT probably didn't think the twins were any better than he was.

With the twins, Cole Aldrich, and Matt Kleinmann being the only bigs in his way he couldn't even see the floor. Plus we had hyped up Thomas Robinson in queue to be big time for us and he was pretty much a souped up version of QT.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

jhawk7782,

You put it better than I did.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

Funny, I too discern in theend a political lean toward the radical left...a liberal. Perhaps a marxist.

Isn't this a fun way we have of talking about KU basketball? :-)

theend 3 years, 5 months ago

What about your posts about your dear friend Kirk Herbstreit??? Just saying.....

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

theend sounds like a marxist. Just saying...

But again, what does this have to do with KU hoops?

KUcrazyinCT 3 years, 5 months ago

Are you saying KU would have beat VCU if we had QT? Are you out of your mind?????

Hank Cross 3 years, 5 months ago

I think you have to take all these ratings with a grain of salt. With all the money associated with prep programs, AAU, club teams, runners, etc. I would be surprised if money was NOT changing hands for ratings. No one seems to wonder anymore why kids from Chicago end up going to school in FL. Schools like IMG bring in kids like Daniels and Traylor so they can charge the parents of other players big money to play with 'Five Star Recruits.'

Plus, how many 5 star recruits can there really be?

Jack Wilson 3 years, 5 months ago

I sense some significant cynicism here .. are you suggesting that the all mighty dollar might actually influence things in college basketball? Just outrageous.

Are you suggesting that Rivals might take money from, say, Selby's mom's former high school friend, who is Carmelo Anthony's business manager, who happened to strike up a renewed friendship and become a family friend and/or advisor when Selby was in 6th grade, who called his involvement with both Baltimore area players a "new hustle", who used his money to pay for Selby to get to AAU tournaments, bought him clothes, and did so because he wanted to help the young man with no expectation of any returned benefit, all in Selby's best interests? And quite possibly that could lead to a real high ranking?

Again, just outrageous.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

Hey, theend, this is really fun...

theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist. theend sounds like a marxist.

But I still don't get the connection to KU hoops.

Robert Robinson 3 years, 5 months ago

I'm over the Daniels talk. If the kid wants to win, he'll come to KU. If he wants to play basketball at a football school and wants to watch basketball on TV in March, he'll go to texas. I'm excited to see Traylor. You know, the JAYHAWK... who wants to be here. I hope he makes a joke of his ratings. Americans have short attention spans, and mine has run out with Daniels.

JJHAWK 3 years, 5 months ago

One thing you have to love about KU BB posters - we NEVER get into name calling. Just saying . . .

theend 3 years, 5 months ago

Jaybate....back to topic. Give us next year's starting 5 and bench conributors. Call me crazy.....but I think we will be really good......again! But a lot actually depends on Withey dont you think?

theend 3 years, 5 months ago

I was hard on Tyshawn Taylor throughout last year. I was wrong. I had no idea he had a hand injury that was fairly serious. I think he will be very good in 2011-2012.

Looking back......I think I did notice he played awkwardly at times.....probably the injury.

kkoenig 3 years, 5 months ago

Hey, is Jaybate back from Italy? Haven't heard from him in a while.

Tony Bandle 3 years, 5 months ago

LJW ALERT.....can you post something..anything will do.

This chain has committed the ultimate sin, the greatest transgression, the sickest act, the most worthless moment, the least productive conclusion...

This string has become BORING!!!!!!!

Give us something..give us anything:

Underskirt shots of Kansas cheerleaders.? An analysis of HCBS's latest toupee? What is Brady Morningstar during this summer? Take a poll on who would win a footrace, Lew Perkins or Coach Mangino? How many Cardinal fans will be in Kaufmann Stadium this weekend? If Jaybate and theend ran full speed into each other would they merge and become Rush Limbaugh?

Come on, guys..it's Friday afternoon. Don't make me actually work!!

kennethst 3 years, 5 months ago

Jaybate was in Italy??? I thought I had talked him into going to Scotland. Ahhh.....Scotland. I know I'm a bit off subject, friends......but if you ever want to see a beautiful land it's Scotland.......been 3 times and going back any and every chance I get.

And if you like Scotch........well.....let me tell you.............

brooksmd 3 years, 5 months ago

Absolutely...Had the pleasure while stationed in England to join a British army gliding club at RAF Upavon. We hauled a couple of gliders up to Aboyne, about 30 miles west of Aberdeen, and flew out of there for two weeks. Beautiful country and wonderful people. And they love to drink. lol

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 5 months ago

Very cool brooksmd. Must have been a blast.

brooksmd 3 years, 5 months ago

If you know anything about gliding and wave soaring, it was amazing. Aboyne is known for wave flying. One member of our group achieved his Gold rating when he reached over 20,000 feet. My best was just over 8,000.

jaybate 3 years, 5 months ago

brooksmd, you da man.

20k in a glider is insane.

What was he breathing?

His own farts?

Even 8k would be a stretch for this earth magnet.

I've counted pine needles and buzzard beaks from the back seat of a joy ride on both ridges of the Santa Ynez and Napa Valleys in Arnoldfornia and that's high enough for me!

redlegger 3 years, 5 months ago

Nice interview - agree Turgeon is classy.

I'm kind of torn on supporting him in his new role as Head BB Coach at Maryland. I remember when we were playing Maryland in the 2002 Final Four, and a Maryland fan was reported to have relieved himself on the statue of Phog Allen outside of Allen Field House. If that wasn't bad enough, we gave up an early lead; ending in a loss to Maryland (97-88). Juan Dixon was hard to stop...

kansas88 3 years, 5 months ago

I don't know if any of you remember Richard Scott, but the description of Jamari is eerily similar. Let's hope he's better at the line. A real warrior in the paint though.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 5 months ago

Jamari Traylor a 6-foot-7, 220-pound freshman while Scott was a 6-7, 215-pound freshman. If Trayler can play with the hustle of Scott, maybe he too can play in 2 Final 4s. It was too bad that Scott was plagued with shin splints but a good call kansas88.

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