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Wednesday, May 11, 2011

Gary Bedore’s Kansas basketball notebook

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Selby update

ESPN’s NBA draft expert, Chad Ford, watched former KU guard Josh Selby work out on Tuesday in Las Vegas.

“Josh Selby had an incredible workout today. Showing a lot more explosiveness than I saw at Kansas,” Ford wrote on Twitter. “Malcolm Lee and Selby really going at it. Both guys probably underrated,” Ford added in another tweet.

Twins update

Marcus and Markieff Morris are holding out hope one NBA team will select both of them in the June draft.

“I don’t want to think about that (being on different teams),” Marcus told ESPN’s Chad Ford, who watched them work out Friday in Florida. “Have twins ever been drafted by the same team? Maybe we could be the first,” Marcus added.

That in fact has never occurred. This year, Cleveland will pick second and eighth depending on the lottery outcome. Utah drafts sixth and 12th and Charlotte ninth and 19th.

“Maybe some team will see how we are together,” Marcus told Ford of upcoming individual workouts. “We’re not the same player. Maybe they’ll see how our game complements each other. How well we work together.”

Markieff told Ford: “We know we can play alone. But if a team were to draft both of us, I think they would be getting something special. We know each other so well. There’s chemistry there. Two is better than one.”

This, that

Jamari Traylor, a 6-8 senior forward from IMG Academies in Bradenton (Fla.), will likely make one final campus visit before the May 18 end of the spring signing period. “It is very, very likely that he will visit Texas Tech,” IMG coach Andy Borman told Zagsblog.com on Tuesday. Traylor has visited KU and Oklahoma State. ... Bryce Jones, a 6-foot-5 freshman guard who left USC’s team after first semester, has KU on his list of transfer possibilities, the Las Vegas Sun reports. Jones, who is originally from Taft High in Los Angeles, has visited UNLV, San Diego State and Gonzaga. ... Former KU forward Scot Pollard attended a pep rally in Sacramento, Calif., on Tuesday night. It’s in support of Pollard’s former NBA team, the Sacramento Kings, remaining in Sacramento. The Kings do not want to leave town, but will depart if plans for a new arena are not finalized.

Comments

Funhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Athough not drafted by the same NBA team, the Van Arnsdale twins played together for the Phoenix Suns for one year, 1977, and I think that was their last year playing in the NBA. Tom Van Arnsdale briefly played for the Kansas City Kings. Oh ya, Kansas City Kings - Sacramento Kings...could an NBA team financially survive in Kansas City....?

Funhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Like Marcus and Markieff, the Van Arnsdale twins were especially close. An excerpt about the brothers from a 1972 Sports Illustrated article titled “A Slight Case Of Unmistakable Identity":

“From the time of their premature births on Feb. 22, 1943 (Tom is the older by 15 minutes) until they graduated from Indiana, they spent only two nights apart. Their toys were identical, and only after they left high school did they wear unlike clothes. ‘If we had orange juice for breakfast, Mom would measure the glasses precisely to make sure they contained the same amount,’ says Tom. ‘That way neither one of us would get mad at her.’

The Van Arsdales’ closeness almost knocked Tom out of the pros before he stepped on a court. Drafted in succession in 1965 at the beginning of the second round by New York and Detroit, the twins were separated for the first time when they left for their rookie camps. Tom quit the Pistons soon after and returned home with the excuse that he wanted to go to law school. He bought his law books but never went to class. ‘The sole reason for leaving Detroit was because Dick wasn’t around,’ he recalled last week. ‘It was a case of acute loneliness. It was like when you have a girl friend in high school and for some reason you can’t be with her. All you want is to be with her, and nothing else and no one else can make you happy. I called Dick in New York and he convinced me that things weren’t going to be any better if I didn’t play, so I went back to the Pistons.’”

ku_phanatik 8 years, 2 months ago

Naive? They are brothers...what gives you the right to judge someone's hope for anything. Especially when it comes to family. You are naive for posting such a statement. But I am sure your hopes and dreams are far from naive...

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

It's an opinion.

And as an observation, the U.S. Constitution, specifically the 1st amendment, gives him the right to judge and offer an opinion.

From a pure logic standpoint, the odds of being on the same team are certainly long odds. That's really his point.

ku_phanatik 8 years, 2 months ago

His point what not pure logic but for the twins to have stayed at KU. He called them NAIVE because they want to stay together. I can't see the logic in that when they are brother's and if they love each other. If they would have stayed four years, would they still be naive??? Or would that hope still exist? It gets me where fans take it personal when players leave early. To me it wasn't a opinion but an attack. He could have just said the odds doesn't favor. That's an "logic" opinion. Not to call someone "naive" and "immature".

stravinsky 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm going to have to agree with the OP.

While they would love to play together, and I'm sure there are plenty of teams who would love to have both of them, the fact is that they are both projected as lottery or near lottery.

For them to end up on the same team, what would likely have to happen is a team with two high picks (e.g. Cleveland, Utah) would need to reach on one or both of their picks, while hoping one of the other teams in between their picks doesn't snag the other.

Odds are slim. The OP is correct -- if they wanted to play on the same team next year, they should have stayed at KU.

Sam Constance 8 years, 2 months ago

Immature? Because they would like to play together and it's still possible, even if unlikely? Come on man--whether you intend it that way or not, your comment sounds like sour grapes at their leaving.

I would hazard a guess that they are both well aware it's a long shot, and that the cards would have to fall juuuuust right for it to work. I'd also hazard a guess that they do want to play together, but they couldn't do that and each take home a minimum 7-figure salary in the process.

They may need to grow up, but I'm not sure expressing a desire and hope to play together falls in the category of "immature" or "naive".

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 2 months ago

Dude...cut down on the caffeine! Or maybe add some fiber to your diet!

Martin Shupert 8 years, 2 months ago

Naive isn't that tough of a thing to be at their age. ku_phanatik, come on. It's an accurate description of anyone holding out hope to play on the same team in the NBA. Business is business. It would be a remarkable piece of luck. Anyone want to take odds on this one? If they wanted to play together one more year, there was a way they could have done it. Plus, graduating would not have been a bad thing. I just think it's weird to hear them daydreaming about something they have decided to throw away. WEIRD, naive, and immature. But so what? They are young. It's time to move on though. Everyone here knows they want to play together again. We get that. Let's focus on KU Basketball for 2011-12 and not the NBA.

James Baker 8 years, 2 months ago

Kansas fans don't know much about the NHL but the Sedin twins were drafted together at 1 and 2 in the NHL draft.

Both have become the premier players in the league playing on the same line. It's not naive or immature. It's actually to everyone's benefit if they are drafted to the same roster.

Martin Shupert 8 years, 2 months ago

It's naive to believe that the NHL and the NBA ever do anything close to similar.

Ulric 8 years, 2 months ago

The Sedin twins were selected second and third in the 1999 NHL draft by Vancouver Canucks.

Last year third pick Henrik scored the most points (goals+assists) in the entire NHL, and this year second pick Daniel accomplished the same feat. "The best tandem since Gretzky and Kurri", some experts say.

Henrik and Daniel are a lot like the Morris twins - identical twins with skills that complement each other very well on the court.

Nobody really understands the importance of how it is to be a twin and wanting to stay together, and what that means for the performance.

The Canucks had to give up a lot to trade for those second and third picks to ensure they got the Sedins. The Canucks drew critics the first couple of years, but today that is considered one of the best moves in the history of the NHL draft.

lee3022 8 years, 2 months ago

Portland actually had back to back picks in this draft before trading New Orleans' pick tp Charlotte for Gerald Wallace. I doubt that their dream comes true but Utah is their best hope.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 2 months ago

Why would Utah be their best hope at 6th and 12th? Charlotte picks 9th and 19th.

Chris Bruning 8 years, 2 months ago

jsb9008, i am not agreeing or disagreeing with you about everyones benefit if they are drafted together....but whats your reasoning behind that? I still don't risk the money on Josh Selby if i am an NBA GM.....Bryce Jones , if you are as good as our last transfer from USC (rodrick stewart) come on down.

nicka 8 years, 2 months ago

Rcj -

  1. Still judging Selby by his 1 season in college? That's why you're not an NBA GM. College success and failure rarely translates to the NBA.

  2. Rod Stewart sucked. Transfers in general never work out for us. Just look at the players that transfer FROM KU to another school.....good riddance.

TommieSmithElbow 8 years, 2 months ago

Rex Walters (Northwestern) and Jerod Haase (California) were two excellent transfers. In fact, Jerod doesn't get hurt at the end of the '97 season and the Hawks probably win the National Championship. A healthy Haase against Bibby and Simon worth 4 points? Very likely. (And the kusports.com guard bracket candidates are lucky to not be up against Walters. No one could finish better, and no one wanted to win more than Rex. Not even Coach Roy's little finger.)

nicka 8 years, 2 months ago

My mistake...should have said "in the last 15 years". College hoops has changed a lot since the '90s.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 2 months ago

Personally, if I'm an NBA GM and I have any pick from 22-29, I am definitely considering Josh Selby. NBA is a completely different game where there is more space to do your thing.

Here are the picks from 22-29 and the only team if I were Josh Selby that I wouldn't want to go to is #24 to the Thunder. That team is young enough and with Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Maynor in the backcourt, I'm crossing my fingers that the Thunder don't pick me.

With the Nuggets, Rockets, Celtics, Mavs, Nets, Bulls, and Spurs all picking in those spots, I would go to any of those teams. You also have to remember that Selby is still young enough and it's not like he's forgotten how to play within a year. He has had injuries, but he was also considered a lottery pick last year in the draft. Even with Portland at #21 I would still consider Selby a good pick in the late first round. I could seem him being a bench player and producing like OJ Mayo and that's potentially good value for a late first round pick.

Clarence Haynes 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree kushaw. Too bad that there are too many folks on this blog making judgements based on one dismal year. A healthy Josh Selby can contribute sooner rather than later to an NBA team.

ku1otaku 8 years, 2 months ago

I just wish we would've seen a healthy Selby all year. I get frustrated when people rub it in to me about Selby being a bust. I still think he's got a legit shot in the league.

Kevin Studer 8 years, 2 months ago

Come on, Morrii. Why would an NBA team spend 2 high picks on such similar players?

Firebirdguy31 8 years, 2 months ago

I want an NBA team soooo bad. I don't really pay much attention to the NBA because I don't have a regular team I support, but this could be a match made in heaven. Send the Kings back to KC! Draft/acquire some Big 12 alums and this city would be all over them.

JJHawq 8 years, 2 months ago

OKC is a fine team to jump behind... I love basketball at any level - and I'm not sure how people don't enjoy the playoffs if they like basketball.

ku_phanatik 8 years, 2 months ago

I believe Markieff can be Rasheed Wallace 2.0. He has the size, the ability to move the ball on the floor and the deep touch. If he can work on blocking shots, he would be a major player for a contender.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 2 months ago

Minus the attitude and "Technical" issues of course.

tdub 8 years, 2 months ago

Maybe minus the attitude, but not so much the technical issues. Just creates another similarity between 'Kieff and 'Sheed.

John Sheehan 8 years, 2 months ago

I think he meant Markieff could play like Rasheed minus the attitude and technicals of Rasheed Wallace - something Rasheed was well known for, but I could be wrong?

Paul Meyer 8 years, 2 months ago

Somewhat changing subjects... Happy to see Turg's promotion to a university that enjoys basketball just as much as football, unlike A&M, but curious why Coach Stevens continues to decline offers. Is he that dedicated to Butler, or is he waiting for the Hoosiers job?

Dirk Medema 8 years, 2 months ago

My guess is that Coach Stevens isn't leaving Butler for the same reason Coach Few isn't leaving Gonzaga. They haven't bought into the notion that millions of dollars will make you happier.

Coach Stevens also has the benefit of being in Indiana, and if you haven't lived in Indiana you probably can't understand the concept. I didn't until I went there for grad school. The nerdiest, dumpiest guy on campus plays basketball, and is consumed by it enough that he has actually developed some skills. It permeates most of the people in the state. He's developing his niche, and realizes that bigger sometimes isn't better - it's just bigger.

Definitely happy for Turg', and glad to b able to root for him all the more.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 2 months ago

This is a good topic! I will also say this about Stevens. Stevens also knows and will want to prove himself at a bigger job. He's young enough and ambitous enough to have that type of goal. Considering what he's accomplished at Butler I don't blame him.

With that said, he's not going to take just any job. As Bill Self has found out over his tenure at KU that success also comes with added scrutiny at a blueblood program. You take the good with the bad and T. Smith, Calipari, Self, Coach K, R. Williams, Howland, B. Knight, and Crean have all experienced it.

Eventually, Stevens will want what all these guys were or are currently experiencing, but at 34 he can buy his time, learn more from coaching, and stay as the "Underdog" while he tweaks his craft. Pretty smart if you ask me.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 2 months ago

I echo what Dagger stated, but Butler is also right smack dab in the middle of Indianapolis. Some pretty darn good basketball is played at the high school level in that city. Plus, having the Pacers right there to develop some NBA connections isn't a bad life saver either.

Stevens has proven what he can do as a coach by taking Butler to back to back NCAA title games. Stevens can go anywhere he wants and he's put himself and Butler financially in a better position for the future.

Stevens just received a 10 year contract at the end of the 2010 title game. The only way he leaves is if Duke, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, Kentucky (Probably wouldn't take that job), or Indiana opens up. Stevens loves Butler and Butler loves Stevens. Even if he were to leave for one of those schools above, that school would have to have a "Buyout" towards Butler and even in that case it's still a win/win for Stevens and Butler. Butler knows this and Stevens knows this. Either way, Butler and Stevens are sitting pretty not only financially, but for their futures as well.

brooksmd 8 years, 2 months ago

Plus playing in two NCAA finals in two years has to make recruiting a bit easier.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 2 months ago

Plus, Stevens is just 34 years old and has 9 more years on his contract. Hell, at 43 years old he will not even have reached his peak by coaching standards. Most coaches don't get their first "Big Time" job until their low to mid forties. Don't just take a job to take a job. He's playing his cards right. Coach K and Roy aren't getting any younger and if Crean doesn't change something soon at Indiana, he could be on the hot seat pretty soon. Hell, I only give Self (If he stays to coach college) another 8-12 years to coach KU. that would make Self 56-60. I just don't see Self coaching past too much after 60 in the college game.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 2 months ago

I've been wondering for a while about all the interest in TTech, and it just now dawned on me - Coach G. Their going to become much better in the next year or so. How long will Billy last in Lubbock though is the real question.

REHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Some NBA franchise will really miss the boat if they don't take a gamble on drafting the Morrii together. In what has been labeled a weak draft year, Marcus and Markieff could be rare nuggets for a team willing to think a bit outside the usual hoops draft.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 2 months ago

The Morrii never learned how to play with their body or with somebody else bodying them - otherwise known as "Extreme Muscle Ball" or whatever it is that Jaybate named it. VCU knew and knocked KU and others out of the tourney with it. So have others.

That is also the difference between winning and losing in the NBA. It became all the more clear in the past week reading articles about the Bulls - Hawks series. The Hawks have won when the Bulls have not played in your grill D, although there is a phrase Chicago uses to describe it that escapes me.

Morrii practice against each other, and help each other develop their skills, but haven't learned that the NBA (and March Madness) isn't about your skill set as much as it is about your skill set under duress. They have obviously gotten more physical to their credit, but still haven't gotten to realizing that it's not about your own guns as much as it is about playing with someone else's tank in your chest.

They have come a long ways and show tons of determination, but there is a quantum leap in toughness that they are going to need to become successful in the NBA.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 2 months ago

I have no idea how to spell it, but Tom Thibodeau (Sp?) is one heck of a coach.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 2 months ago

NBA =

No Bambis Allowed

Totally agree, dags.

Chris Bruning 8 years, 2 months ago

Nicka says: Rcj -

  1. Still judging Selby by his 1 season in college? That's why you're not an NBA GM. College success and failure rarely translates to the NBA

Yes i am, it does count for something doesn't it? what am i supposed to go off of strictly what he did in high school??? Go youtube all the little segments the last couple of months of his high school career (they are about 5-8 mins a piece). Maeshon Witherspoon clearly states that Lake Clifton didn't exactly play the best of the best. He had horrible ball handling, was easily shut down when he drove and didn't dribble it off his foot. Hate to sound like such a troll, and i hope josh proves me wrong, i am just simply puting my opinion out there. Hope he is a first rounder, hope he succeeds!!!

milehighhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I really don't think either of the Twins are delusional enough to believe they will wind up on the same team but it doesn't hurt to try and plant the thought into the head of an NBA exec.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 2 months ago

A little nugget from Mascott at the shiver. He says that if Ryan Harrow (NC State transfer) ends up at UK that Lacey to KU is pretty good possibility. Also, if Liggins would have not entered the draft and came back to UK that Lacey to KU would be pretty high. You can read his post for yourself and make your own conclusions.

http://theshiver.com/forum/showthread.php?p=124658&posted=1#post124658

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

Transfers worked back in the Roy era - I.e., Rex Walters (from Northwestern) & Jerrod Haase (from Cal.) both immediately come to mind. Mario Little (from a juco.) has probably been Self's best in-transfer thus far....maybe I'm wrong and someone else can immediately think of another one....that's just who comes to mind for me.

bad_dog 8 years, 2 months ago

I doubt you're on anyone's "favorite" list.

Don't you have a potato famine to applaud or something?

jaygun 8 years, 2 months ago

Good point about the Sedin sisters ... Another thing about Bryce Jones is that he played at Taft with De'Andre Daniels before Daniels transferred to IMG Academy. And from what I remember, Jones was the better player on their team (hell of a team, too). Just sayin' ...

tis4tim 8 years, 2 months ago

I wonder if the Morris twins' insistence on playing together might not hurt both of their overall draft stocks.

We already know that only a handful of NBA teams have two picks that fall close enough, yet far enough apart to jibe with the twins' draft projections. We also know that the chances of a team taking both guys is very unlikely considering the history in all sports of such a scenario. Even if a team did want to try to make that happen, it may not want to give up future picks or cash considerations or the like to get it done.

So, as an NBA GM, if you know you won't be able to get both guys and you know that the two have never been apart for any length of time and you know how vocal they have been about wanting to play together, do you shy away from either as individuals on draft day thinking that the whole may be greater than the sum of the parts or that they may have too difficult of a transition playing on separate teams? It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

TommieSmithElbow 8 years, 2 months ago

Never understood the infatuation with Tractor, and Don Nelson used him to play the NBA like a violin, getting Dirk Nowitzki AND Steve Nash by selecting Tractor and trading him on Draft Day. Unbelievable.

Ted Hume 8 years, 2 months ago

gotta assume that's sarcasm. Battling obesity and aortic heart surgery- yea, that was a shocker...

JHawk74 8 years, 2 months ago

Josh Selby will be the best player from KU in the 2011 draft. He will be an All Star as a Point Guard in 2 or 3 years after being drafted.

John Randall 8 years, 2 months ago

Isn't it obvious? He's already gone from the #1 sr to the #487 frosh in just one year!

JHawk74 8 years, 2 months ago

He has incredible talent and shooting ability. He was the best player on the court when we played against USC and he was healthy at that time. I think his injury limited his production at KU. He probably didn't fit into Coach Self system of playing 9-10 players in every game. He would have been better in a system that play only 6-7 players most of the time. Coach Self never gave up on him even when he wasn't performing at a high level. I think Self thought it would finally 'click' in a game and he would be that dominate player that he is capable of being.

Woody Cragg 8 years, 2 months ago

IMO we're all more than a little miffed that he sandbagged at KU but that's no reason to bash or criricize him. He was not going to be "the man" in a Self team here for one year and was not experienced at being a role player as such. He is not just a half court player and his game will only elevate in the future. X Henry found his way very well for a OAD under Self but isn't possible for all 17/18 year old kids to do. I hope we're all pleasantly surprised at him in a couple more years. The OAD rule has got to go. Needs to be 2 or 3 minimum or not at all. JMO.

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