Tuesday, March 29, 2011


KU basketball tip: schedule Shockers


The Kansas University basketball team doesn’t play regular-season games against Colonial Athletic Association schools and other institutions from so-called “mid-major” leagues unless they take place in either Allen Fieldhouse or the Sprint Center.

Heavyweights tend to avoid scheduling home-and-home series with light heavyweights.

For the powerhouses, such games fall into the category of nothing-to-gain, everything-to-lose. Plus, the emotional edge falls with the underdog and that edge grows when the smaller school’s fan base gets more jacked than ever for a rare visit from a super power.

That’s all fine, but the thinking is too short-sighted, too defensive. It works against the big schools in March. Playing a road game against a team that doesn’t have a snazzy name splashed across the front of the jersey presents a challenge far more difficult than any computer rankings possibly could capture. It’s a different one than a tough conference opponent.

If such a matchup makes geographic sense, all the more exciting for the fan bases of both schools. Nothing wrong with adding an annual December rivalry game to the schedule.

Kansas, of course, has a competitive non-BCS school within the state that would circle the game on its schedule and would make for a tough opponent.

The time has come for KU to put Wichita State on its slate on a home-and-home basis with the games in Wichita played downtown in Intrust Bank Arena. Not likely to happen, but it’s an idea well worth considering.

Plenty of reasons not to do it, such as the Big 12 schedule expanding to 18 games, leaving just 13 nonconference contests. No deal-breaker. Just substitute one of the home-and-home, big-name series with Wichita State to prevent losing a home game every other year.

Here’s the only way I could see it happening: Shockers coach Gregg Marshall, who in 13 seasons as a Div. I coach (nine at Winthrop) has won nearly twice as many as he has lost, is considered a strong candidate at North Carolina State. Let’s say he leaves Wichita State for Raleigh or another school.

WSU would be wise to make a phone call to Kansas assistant coach Danny Manning to test his interest in running his own program. Someone as competitive as Manning just might look at the success of former KU players Mark Turgeon at Texas A&M; and Tad Boyle at Colorado and be itching to head his own program.

“He would be a great head coach,” said KU junior Markieff Morris, answering before the question was finished.

Manning sees the floor as well as a coach as he did as a player. Players respect him, want to please him. He’s a great teacher of the game and he has a presence.

If all the dominoes tumbled and Manning ended up on Wichita State’s bench, no way Kansas could say no to a home-and-home with its most popular player.


HawksWin 10 years, 8 months ago

Like it. Let's add VCU to the agenda! It'd give our team/coach a chance for redemption & one heck of a way to start the season! How about Northern Iowa? Then these mid-majors wouldn't be so foreign to us in March!

hawk316 10 years, 8 months ago

But let's don't put any ideas in D Manning's head about leaving! I want that man to stay in Lawrence as long as possible! He's such an asset to KU's program.

Funhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

Thank you, Tom Keegan, for saying what some of us Jayhawk fans have wanted for years: play Wichita State. What a fun rivalry it would be. Pay back time.

The last time the two teams met, KU had no choice. KU had to play the Shockers.
2 seconds left in the NCAA game between KU and Wichita State, and KU is behind 66-65.

LJW, March 21, 1981. Headline: “KU’s ‘Sucker Play’ Doesn’t Score.” By Chuck Woodling.

“BOOTY NEAL was to throw the ball in from the WSU end of the floor. He was to fake a long pass downcourt, then run along the baseline where Valentine set himself like a rock hoping to draw a foul and, since the Shockers were over the limit, earn a bonus free throw opportunity. WSU defender Jay Jackson (local kid from Valley Falls, KS) bought it, crashing into Valentine, who went thudding to the floor. No whistle. "I think 30,000 thought it was a foul," said Owens, "except the three (officials) who didn't call it. It was very obviously a flagrant foul." Added Valentine, who spent several seconds jawing with the baseline official after Neal had called time again: "I positioned myself and he (Jackson) ran into me. I thought it was obvious." Maybe someday that sucker play will work for Kansas.”

By the way, don't ever bring up this final play with the WSU player, Jay Jackson. He doesn't want to talk about it.

Kelly Hanrahan 10 years, 8 months ago

Your comment that the 1981 game was the last time the 2 teams met is incorrect. The 2 teams played at least 9 times after that game. Except for the 87-88 season, the 2 teams played each year from the 83-84 season through the 92-93 season. The series was scheduled on a 2 for 1 home game schedule with KU getting the 2 home games and WSU getting 1 home game in a 3 year span. I believe a couple of KU's "home" games were played in Kemper. In the last 4 meetings, the games were no contest with KU winning by about 30 or more each time. I know the last game was a 49 point victory. WSU wanted to change to a 1 for 1 home game series, and the strength of their team just did not make a 1 for 1 deal justifiable. WSU would not agree to the 2 for 1 arrangement to continue so the series ended.

Kansascountry 10 years, 8 months ago

Last time KU played at Wichita State was when Danny Manning was playing, can't remember the year but WSU beat KU. I think an in state rivalary is worth it!

Kelly Hanrahan 10 years, 8 months ago

I believe you are mistaken - WSU beat KU 54-49 on 01-06-87 at WSU. Since then, KU beat WSU 93-66 on 01-04-90 and 81-51 on 01-08-92 and both of these games were played at WSU according to the KU basketball media guide. I know there are mistakes in the media guide, but I attended all 3 of those games, as well as the 2 KU victories in Kemper and the 4 KU victories in Lawrence which were all the games played between the 2 teams since the 1981 game cited by Funhawk above. KU was 8-1 in the 9 games played during this period. An instate rivalry may be worth it, but trying to support that position with inaccurate information won't convince me.

klineisanazi 10 years, 8 months ago

Nothing personal, but how could a KU fan opining on playing WSU not be aware of the series that followed the loss in New Orleans? WSU won one of those, I recall, in Manning's junior year. Other than that, it was all KU.

okjhok 10 years, 8 months ago

The premise assumes that these mid-major teams aren't anything like the major teams KU plays all year long. That's not the case. It's like Coach Self said: It comes down to matchups and making shots. KU didn't lose to VCU or Northern Iowa because they didn't know anything about them or because they played a crazy style of basketball. KU played other teams that had big men who could step out. VCU's previous four games along with the scouting report clearly gave away how to defend that team and KU just didn't get it done. That, on top of the shooting performance, led to a loss. I really get tired of hearing people try to complicate this more than it needs to be. KU couldn't make shots the other night; shots it normally makes. Because of that, they lost. That's basketball. I'm all for playing Wichita State, but not because it will prepare KU any better for March.

klineisanazi 10 years, 8 months ago

I agree with you. If KU would schedule any of these teams, the odds are they would win 98% of those games. KU lost because it played a good team that was very hot and exploited KU weaknesses, mostly at the perimeter. Weaknesses that were apparent throughout the season. But mostly, KU's poor shooting from all over the court indicated a team overcome by the pressure of the moment---use the dreaded "c" word if you choose, but KU folded.
I don't know how you simulate the pressure that every Self-coached KU team will face in the tournament from here on out. Think it got old this year. That is nothing compared to what future KU players will face. But playing in hostile arenas against good mid-major competition doesn't seem to be the solution.

frisbeenation 10 years, 8 months ago

Bill Self doesn't need any tips from you or anyone else, Keegan.

scarletbhound 10 years, 8 months ago

I could not agree more with Tom that KU should play Wichita State. It would b e great for both schools. I would, however, like to expand the idea and say that KU should schedule at least one Missouri Valley team each year. I have lived in several MVC communities -- Wichita, Carbondale, Omaha and now Springfield, MO. In each of those places, KU is highly respected and for the Jayhawks to play their local teams would be a major step for raising the university's image and influence across the Midwest. That could mean more out-of-state students and their tuition dollars, greater exposure for the university and other side benefits. Moreover, people familiar with the MVC know how fanatic their fans are and playing in their arenas would help the Hawk prepare for what will be a much tougher Big 12 schedule. KU plays too many non-conference cupcakes from small southern or eastern conferences that produce nothing but boring, predictable wins. Why not make these games regional events that would create high interest and draw attention to KU in every MVC community? You can be sure that should KU, for example, play Illinois State, folks from Cedar Falls to Evansville would be paying close attention. It also would help the MVC raise its profile -- especially strength of schedule -- and get more Midwestern teams into the NCAA tournament. It also might teach KU not to take mid-major teams lightly in the NCAAs. After all, recent history shows that such schools have a strong record in knocking KU out of the tournament -- losses, I think, partly due to KU's dismissal of the quality of basketball played by these schools and thinking that simply having KANSAS on the uniform is enough to scare them into submission.

John Boyle 10 years, 8 months ago

You just gave a boat load of reasons to play to help the MVC schools and no real benefit to KU. That is exactly why it doesn't happen. Go back to debate school and bring back good legit reasons it would benefit KU then we can have a meaningful conversation.

Kansascountry 10 years, 8 months ago

Just like there wasn't a benefit for KU to play VCU! It doesn't always have to benefit KU.
And you need to go back to school and learn how to identify a debate, I believe the person you just attacked was stating their opinion, not debating the issue.

scarletbhound 10 years, 8 months ago

JayhawkJohn: To answer your question, I think games would help KU partly for the reasons I suggest -- great publicity and good will in the Midwest. More to your point, however, is the type of teams KU would face. Individual MVC teams tend to be very cyclical in wins-losses. That's because the MVC often recruits solid, but not necessarily NBA-bound players who usually stay around four years. That means they are experienced, disciplined and well-coached and play with a chip on their shoulder. Look at VCU this year and UNI last year -- both loaded with seniors most of whom will never make a buck off basketball, unless they go into coaching. Beating a team like KU becomes a high point of their college career. Meanwhile, KU gets the top-notch recruits, who often are primarily focused on getting to the "league" -- think Xavier last year. Basketball is the kind of game where superb teamwork by experienced, if less talented players can often defeat highly talented, but younger and less disciplined players -- the type of teams that have a record of beating KU in the NCAAs i.e. Bradley and UNI.

scarletbhound 10 years, 8 months ago

JayhawkJohn: One last point. Why the nastiness about me going back to debate school? You and I are on the same side. We are just chatting on this site. Indeed, if you went to debate school you would realize that civility is the first element in a good debate.

MinMax 10 years, 8 months ago

Flukes happen. VCU doesn't win 2 out of 10 against KU. There is no benefit, outside of landing Perry Ellis and getting him a really close to home game, to playing in Wichita against the shockered. Playing WSU is a money losing proposition for KU. Why sell out IBA and split the money when KU can sell out AFH and pay a token amount? I don't mind humoring the Wichita fans, but with all the sour grapes of the shockered numbnuts, they can go screw themselves.

Carter Patterson 10 years, 8 months ago

I would like to see WSU on the schedule. Perhaps Dr. Z being a Kansan will also see the benefit.

RockCaCO3 10 years, 8 months ago

Keegan, after just reading the first 3 paragraphs; Yes!

Our early season games are pretty damn fluffy.

Brad Avery 10 years, 8 months ago

HCBS needs to hire a coach who can teach kids to shoot free throws and scheduling the Shockers would be a great idea. They were as good as any other B12 team this season.

SaulGood 10 years, 8 months ago

I am in support of us reaching out to different teams, especially to schedule a tougher non-con. Each year, I am consistently unimpressed with our safe "preseason exhibitions". It feels like a charity case: "Here, why don't you come to AFH, Emporia/Washburn/UMKC and have a chance to play some real basketball." Sure! WSU or whoever, let's bring in someone who could compete with us and really test our mettle early on! Seems to be a great way to put our talent to the test, and help Coach figure out rotations that work well against different teams. Take the risk - it's a smart one by my count! That being said, I have no idea what it takes to make these kinds of arrangements, so I don't know how realistic it would be to schedule a team like VCU, or Memphis like we have since the championship.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 8 months ago

Turg and Boyle are more than one dimensional when it comes to their exposre to coaching. Danny would make an effective head coach. But, even if I were WSU or others, I would rather he had some time on another bench in addition to KU's before handing him the HC whistle.

It would be a little cruel to annoint him as a head coach at WSU and then put him in a position to be beaten by his family at KU. Yeah, I agree that it would be a good gesture for the relationships between schools. Yeah, it would be a lofty goal for Danny to manage to actually come out victorious once every 8-10 years. But, if he was successful there, his stock would be so good that there would be top 25 teams lined up when they had needs for a new HC. Unless HCBS retires at a relatively young age, Danny won;t get his shot at KU. His days are numbered too. Coaching is becoming less of an older man's gig than it was in previous decades. Where are the Eddie Suttons, Dean Smiths, Joe B. Halls? Welcome Shakka Smart, Brad Stephens, Tad Boyle.

lee3022 10 years, 8 months ago

I believe Bill Self has said he will retire long before he accrues the large number of wins Coach Knight and Coach K have. His point is that coaches are paid too much now to keep a coach with the long hours and extensive travel needed to recruit and win. Even so, it is unlikely it is within the time frame that Danny would want to wait. The best hope Danny would have to coach KU would to be to work up as a head coach of a good D-1 program.

CLARKKENT 10 years, 8 months ago


John Boyle 10 years, 8 months ago

As a tax payer in KS I don't think that has any bearing on whether KU and KSU should play WSU. That is an athletic decision and it just isn't beneficial to KU. KSU quit playing because if they won it was "oh well they were suppose to" but if they lost it was big time celebration and news in KS for years. They same could be said of KU. Just not enough benefit to playing them. If WSU wants to play the B12 teams so bad, then pull up your panties, get a football team and join the B12.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 8 months ago

Really you want us to stoop down and play a home and away with teams that have gyms that are smaller than most high schools. Look at some of the footage of these schools, they have old camera setups and no seating.

Most mid-majors don't have stadiums that seet 3,000 people.

Additionally, last time I checked we played USC,UCLA, Cal, Michigan, Arizona in our non-conference. We also played Memphis and Colorado State. Memphis was in MSG.

Additionally, the Big XII has something going with the PAC 12 and TV drives this as much as anything. Every game between the Big XII and PAC 12 are televised. I'm not sure if a game between KU and "William and Mary" would be a game that would get national attention.

I also think based on some of the comments we use to play a 2 and 1 with the shockers. That is the deal when you play a Powerhouse. If WSU doesn't want to do the 2 and 1...blame it on them not us. We shouldn't have to do a 1 and 1 just because it helps their program.

AirCapJay 10 years, 8 months ago

WSU's Koch arena holds 10,500 and is full every game. Intrust Bank Arena holds over 15,000. By the way, I have never heard that Wichita State turned down any deal to play KU. I just don't believe it.

John Boyle 10 years, 8 months ago

Its true. They wanted a 1 for 1. Just wasn't in KU's best interest. These conversations about WSU always come up when the Shocks are doing well but remain pretty dormant when they are struggling. I like the Shockers (I hope they win the NIT in a championship game against Colorado provided they both get that far) but we really don't gain anything from playing them.

rockchalkty 10 years, 8 months ago

Not true. WSU couldn't even sell out the NIT game vs Nebraska. They fill the arena for a handful of games each year, not even close to half of the home games though. You can walk up and get a ticket on most nights, which I recommend. WSU has a good thing going, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Jason Wilson 10 years, 8 months ago

The Nebraska game was during Spring Break and only had like 7,400 in attendance. Every other home game was 10,300-10,506.

shawneejayhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

They have sold out their arena for years.. Did you see what they did to Nebraska that night?

Kansascountry 10 years, 8 months ago

Number one you are talking about negotiations that took place in the 90's no deal has been brought to the table since. And what kind of television does Kansas get when they play, Fort Hays State, Emporia State, and Pittsburg State. Wichita State would take a 2 and 1 any day, it's KU's decision to play NAIA schools.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 10 years, 8 months ago

KU doesn't play home-and-home games with mid-majors for one reason-- money. KU sells out its home games, all of them, so they want more home games than away games, and giving mid-majors a guarantee of $70,000 to play one game in Lawrence rather than a home-and-home is the best way to fund one of the most expensive basketball programs in the country.

And playing Wichita State in a home-and-home series could create an image of equality in the minds of potential Kansas recruits, such as Reed, Morningstar, and coming up in about a year, Wichita native Ellis. So it's probably not gonna happen.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 8 months ago

I live in the Wichita, KS area and Bob Lutz, from the Wichita Eagle, for years, have requested Wichita State play KU, especially in Wichita. Since the new Intrust Bank Arena has been built in Wichita now, the door is ready to open. I would definitely attend the game, as a KU fan, for sure.

BTW, somebody above mention the KU @ WSU game in the old Henry Levitt Arena when Danny Manning was a Junior. The Jayhawks lost that game, with Larry Brown coaching of course. I was at that game in the arena. It was heartbreak hotel but one had to admit, the atmosphere was electric!

Jack Wilson 10 years, 8 months ago

Keegan: Excellent suggestion. I am always puzzled why we duck these games, and why other elite programs do. To prep for the tournament, let's play a home and home alternating years with Wichita St. and George Mason ,, host one, go on the road vs. one. Someone mentioned above that it would reflect "equality" so it won't happen ... well VCU kicking our tails certainly might reflect "equality" too. Good topic.

Justin Carlson 10 years, 8 months ago

I for one am looking forward to 2011-12 season! I hope the noncon schedule brings some heavy duty competition, hopefully at home. Is a home court winning streak of 50 - 60+ plus games that important? It is too me but in the long run do home court losses to really tough teams refocus the team for a long march run? I think so! I am hoping the 18 game conference schedule will help and maybe starting next year a team goes 13 - 5 and wins it. (Prediction 16-2 Hawks run away with it) But I am concerned with the lack of quality in the "big 12" other than KSU's run 2010 and a Texas run the big 12 will be very weak probably the worst its ever been. New coaches at Missery, OU, and even Gill at tech has no talent in the 1st season. History has shown, other than our Jayhawks, the big 12 plain stinks in March. I know Self's winning % is off the charts but is it that great considering it is against a fluffy big 12. I think next season will be the worst big 12 season ever, and I predict other than KU no other B12 team makes it past the round of 32 with only Texas and KSU making it to the tourney if the tourney stays 68 teams

This folks will not prepare us of March and surely not April!!

kansas25 10 years, 8 months ago

I agree completely. Both KU and K-State should play Wichita State. I think only positives come from these match ups because, nowadays, losing to a so-called mid-major isn't really a big deal. It happens all the time and, looking at the Final Four, they are just about as good as teams from the power conferences.

And to jhawkrulz...the Intrust Bank Arena seats 15,000 whereas AFH seats 16,300. Not a big enough difference to use that as a reason why the teams shouldn't play.

AirCapJay 10 years, 8 months ago

There are a lot of fans in Kansas' largest city that would love to see a KU-WSU game at Intrust Bank Arena every other year. West Virginia coach Huggins is trying to get a KSU-WV game at Intrust so it might be looking up that Intrust will get some good games to watch soon. I would like to see both KU and KSU play WSU each year.

AirCapJay 10 years, 8 months ago

By the way, Wichita State plays Washington State in the NIT final 4 tonight. Could be a chance to see Wichita State play Colorado on Thursday for the NIT Championship. Go Shockers!

REHawk 10 years, 8 months ago

JCAR2510, Missouri has a stable of very able players returning next season. Unless they botch their coach search and lose some of those kids to transfers, they are minus only a couple of big men to compete for a top 3 league position. A Matt Painter or Shaka Smart could work marvels with that program, right from the getgo.

Patrick Leiker 10 years, 8 months ago

There are no incentives for playing Wichita State, unless they want to come to Allen with no return trip. Otherwise, it is lose lose. We win and we were supposed to win. We lose and it is the biggest deal in Kansas since sliced bread.

We need to schedule teams who increase our national exposure in regions that have big time recruits. Who are the Wichita area recruits we are trying to get face time with that we don't already have top billing for anyway? I say continue scheduling as many Pac 10 teams as possible.

Rick Arnoldy 10 years, 8 months ago

No incentive? How about it would just be d@mn fun for fans of both schools?

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago

No point to scheduling WSU, except to replace Pittsburg State.

Wichitawk 10 years, 8 months ago

I'm as big of a Jayhawk fan as anyone, but consistently losing to teams with lesser talent in the NCAA is unacceptable. The argument about "nothing to gain" against home and home with mid-majors rings hollow when they keep losing to them come tourney time. We're Kansas and we should be judged and should want to be judged on Final Four appearances. Let's man up.

John Boyle 10 years, 8 months ago

We already schedule a home and home series with a mid-major: MISSOURI !!!!!

John Randall 10 years, 8 months ago

Yes, but we are losing two others to different conferences ... WU would be a step up from NU and CU – for both KU and KSU.

The financial side wouldn't be enough different to outweigh the fact that it is something all three schools should be doing.

Rick Arnoldy 10 years, 8 months ago

"I don't care who you are, that's just funny right there.

Matt Bowers 10 years, 8 months ago

I would like to see KU play more ACC teams as well for the non-conference schedule. Playing schools like GT and NC State is a good test for KU and a positive home and away. I agree with Keegan about Wichita State, not only does it offer KU a unique challenge, it also keeps a lot of money in Kansas.

ESPN has created a decent non-conference game for KU over the next four seasons, but it comes so early in the season, it does little more than give ESPN something to talk about.

Rock Chalk

Robert Rauktis 10 years, 8 months ago

If mid-majors on a neutral court were kickin my as, I'd address the problem by bracket busting and beating their likes in their cracker boxes. Ultimately, a 30 + record in the Little 12 (?10) hasn't meant diddly in March, when it matters.

OR...we can hang a new banner for appearances in the Elite Eight.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 10 years, 8 months ago

If we don't want mid-majors occasionally beating KU (and all the other heavyweights in the tournament) then they need to be excluded from it.

By definition, NCAA basketball is played by players who aren't quite kids, but not really mature adults, yet, either. They're going to have lapses that come with immaturity and inexperience, even among the elite teams.

Which means that they aren't going to win every game, even against teams with less talented players. And in this era of one-and-dones, mid-majors tend to have older, more experience players who are less susceptible to bouts of immaturity, inexperience and inconsistency, so we get the "parity" we see in this year's final four.

Mike Ardis 10 years, 8 months ago

We play Valpo and Miami (Oh) at home but a road game at WSU or others would help. The new Big 12 schedule will help a little as KU will have to play an additional road game, which KU needs. Look at the 2010-11 road schedule, two games in Vegas, one in NY, one in Calif. and one in Mich (plus a KC Sprint Center game) During the season there were the bus trips to ISU, KSU, NU, MU, OU (?), and then CU, Baylor, and TTU. KU thrives close to home but seems more challenged on the road. Do we really need home games vs. UMKC and Longwood?

Evan Ridenour 10 years, 8 months ago

They should play each other but the only way it will happen is if they play KU (at home). It is much more a financial issue more then being "afraid" of playing a mid-major in an away game.

Luke Smith 10 years, 8 months ago

You had me until the Danny Manning talk.

Rick Arnoldy 10 years, 8 months ago

To those saying there's nothing to gain, how about learning to play against someone you are high and mighty about beating but get punched in the face when you realize too late they are coming at you with their best shot. Rhode Island, UTEP, Bucknell, Bradley, VCU, etc. etc. etc. Play the mid majors ON THEIR COURT. It's easy to get up for UK and Duke. That's not who we've been losing to in the tournament!

MinMax 10 years, 8 months ago

Duh. It is KU. It isn't like we do not already receive everyone's best shot. People base their seasons around us. They want to play us, then they can Pay us.

Jayhawk1116 10 years, 8 months ago

Schedule all the bad match-ups you can! I'd rather have a few more losses during the regular season and be much more prepared for the post season.

selfishhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

+1000. I am so sick of watching us go through our non-conference slate unharmed, yet knowing we have serious flaws.

Here is an interesting question for all you 35-3 proponents: What 5 games did the boys win this year that you are really proud of?

Lance Hobson 10 years, 8 months ago

I don't know why this is so difficult. We absolutely should be playing WSU every year. Roy was such a snob and ended the rivarly, which was very disappointing. This is another in-state school and we should play them once in a while.

MinMax 10 years, 8 months ago

Roy offered 2 for 1. WSU balked. Get your facts straight.

CharmCity 10 years, 8 months ago

Great article, Tom! WSU's basketball program struggled in the '80's because they were on probation for NCAA violations but now the program is back (Thank you Mark Turgeon). I think now is the time for KU and KSU to schedule WSU. Financially, it could be a win-win situation for all schools. Wichita has finally stepped up it's game by developing downtown with Intrust Arena, new hotels, bars and restaurants. It's become a great venue for basketball. Besides, playing KU and/or KSU would be great tune-up games for WSU!

Bear86 10 years, 8 months ago

Bring the series back. As a KU alum that hails from Wichita this would be a good in state mini-rivalry game. Historically WSU has had a good program. There are a number of KU alums in Wichita that would love to see this game brought back. F-Texas!!!

KansasBob 10 years, 8 months ago

We play shockers every year. Last year it UNI. This year it was VCU.

kureignman 10 years, 8 months ago

Outside of Gonzaga or Butler, the major problem with mid majors is that they don't have success from year to year. Didn't we already have a lot of teams on our schedule this year that went to the tourney last year? That didn't help us out. Even WSU only made it to the NIT. How much would that have helped us against VCU? I actually agree that we should schedule a few mid majors away from Allen but don't think it will happen due to losing a home game and it's revenue.

Kansascountry 10 years, 8 months ago

So Wichita State fans that live in Kansas don't support KU with their tax dollars? How about the revenue Wichita State could realize by filling their new arena with 15,500 people for a KU game. When you are talking about an in state game KU can't take the attitude they are losing revenue, remember they are all KANSAS schools supported by the tax payers of KANSAS.

kureignman 10 years, 8 months ago

While I agree with you that state schools should help each other out, I think that is a very simplistic view of how the athletic department is run. It operates as a separate entity representing the university and is pretty much a for profit business. I think a KU game in Wichita would greatly help out WSU because I think it would be a sell out, but over half of the arena would be KU fans. If that is the case, then it would totally defeat the purpose that Keegan is getting at, that KU could benefit from playing a good mid major in a hostile environment. The other flaw with Keegan's article is that a road game against a mid major in December would not directly help KU at all. Suppose we went out to Richmond and played VCU in December. We probably would have smoked them. They were a completely different team then they are in March. Once again, I think a KU-WSU game would be entertaining and beneficial to WSU. I don't think it would solve KU's pattern of losing to lower ranked teams in March

billswinners 10 years, 8 months ago

As a KU fan in Springfield I would rather have KU schedule Missouri State home and home. We have a nice new arena and also have a coaching job open. Danny would fit in well here.

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 8 months ago

nice to have tk and his "what if, try this, no you didn't hear it from me takes" the financial numbers of playing wsu do not even come close to matching. why would ku play wsu when they would want more money than say longwood (giggity). and even more so, why would wsu pay ku to come to their place when they could keep much more of the gate if they played, i don't know, longwood (giggity gittity). botton line is it will never happen unless one school is going to take a pay cut and it won't be us!

ok, got to run. i'm reading this weeks espn the mag with articles about our new ad bubba and his plans to schedule games against the "u" (nope, not that one. the univ of minn) coached by mangino and arizona state coached by mike leach.

side note: we are playing usc in wichita next year. hey wsu, do you like apples?!?!

Markspov 10 years, 8 months ago

I met Danny Manning on a basketball court when we were in High School before a tournament. He wanted to shoot baskets, friends and I were walking to the stands cut in front of him. He was just dribbling, not taking any shots yet. He said " Get off the court". I wanted to say much more but friends pulled me to the stands a little quicker.

I was a basketball player too but not good as he was that age. I wanted to take a ball and play him in my street clothes.

He went to KU won the National Championship. Mooky Blaylock got fouled his eye swelled up affected that game and no foul was called.

NO! I have to shout! NO to Danny Manning coaching WSU!

It doesn't take him to KU to play WSU.

Sedgwick County paid for Intrust Arena, that's another Home venue for KU to play from.

We have a former standout Shocker named John Cooper who has been a long time assistant around the country and now head coach. He will get first consideration next coaching hire at Wichita State.

Gregg Marshall isn't going too soon. He can get a more money for winning the NIT but he must win the MVC Conference and make it to March Madness. He won't leave before doing that.

If Danny Manning is so awesome as a coach, OU can hire him. Missouri can hire him.

BIG NO to Danny Manning at WSU, every game the story how he won the National Championship at KU would be mentioned.

If the game takes financial considerations, marketing money can be found to sponsor "Meat Ups" between WSU, KU and KSU. KU can play WSU at Koch Arena, Intrust Area, of course at Allen and some year soon at Sprint Center. Money can be made at every game. Parity could happen or 10 losses in a row. It doesn't matter, for recruiting reasons, KU must play WSU if they are going to recruit players from Sedgwick County and Wichita High Schools. KSU the same thing.

jayhawktalk 10 years, 8 months ago

I live in Wichita. I don't care that D. Manning told you to get your punk you-know-what off the court because you could not be inconvenienced to walk around the court instead of cutting across. I hope others gave you the same message. ...Your buddies dragged you off the court before what, exactly happened? You embarrassed yourself further? This post is ridiculous.

I hope WSU wins the NIT. I wish much success to WSU, but KU having to play them. Laughable. WSU = yawn.

KU playing away at a mid major in an area that gives little to no recruiting benefit for "good will" while losing $$... What kind of good will does that get you? All of a sudden the mid major's fans become KU fans, or start donating $$ to KU? ...Doesn't happen.

KU playing mid majors because their unpredictable and inconsistent success every 4 - 6 years somehow preps you for March? ...Really? I mean, REALLY!?! Yes, there are some mid majors that are more consistently good teams, but WSU is not one of them.

Play WSU because tax payers dollars help fund all the state schools? KU grads & fans residing in KS tax dollars help fund WSU, as well. It creates no obligation whatsoever, on either side, to play each other in basketball.

I would love it if KU played WSU in Wichita every other year and I had a chance to go, but I hope it doesn't happen because it simply is not in KU's best interest, and, as a KU fan, I want to see them do what is necessary to strengthen the program, rather than starting a welfare system for WSU.

Ryan McAtee 10 years, 8 months ago

I think this is a great idea Keegan. I have lived in Wichita twice now since I graduated from KU in 2005. With the addition of the Intrust Bank Arena in Downtown Wichita, which is near all of the hotels, bars and restaurants in Old Town, I feel KU fans and alumnus would have plenty to do in Kansas' biggest city AND I am sure there is a huge alumni following here that would enjoy seeing a "home" game.

I recently attended both of the WSU NIT games at the "Roundhouse" (which were the first two WSU games I have ever attended) and I was very impressed with the atmosphere and loyal fan following. With the WSU fan base, as well as KU's fan base, the Intrust Bank Arena could easilly be sold out... seats and luxury boxes.

I don't know if a Home and Home event could be an ongoing event between KU and WSU every year, however it would be nice to see them on the schedule from time to time as opposed to Washburn, FHSU, PSU and ESU. The Sprint Center gets a KU game every year... why not add the Intrust Bank Arena for games every so often for the fans in South Central and Western Kansas and even Oklahoma... even if it's just for exhibition games?

MinMax 10 years, 8 months ago

Ah yes, enthusiasm. How enthused would KU be playing WSU? It is pretty obvious you haven't been to AFH. Enthusiasm is defined by the reaction of our student body. They go nuts at every game. You don't believe it? Checkout the line for tickets sometime. Checkout the students every chance you get watching from home on tv. Enthusiasm, lol.

Dyrk Dugan 10 years, 8 months ago

never going to happen...a series with WSU.

3 main reasons: 1. Self has said as much. even with Turg there, Self said a lot of conditions would have to be put on it, just to CONSIDER it.

  1. it doesn't help us. How could a game at the Koch arena, be favorable? if we win big, well we're supposed to win big. and if we lose, we can't live it down...and it gives recruits from Wichita another reason NOT to pick us.

  2. it's a regional game, that's not regional. how many fans now, come from Wichita to watch KU play? a lot...probably a couple thousand. the coverage about our program is already huge in Wichita, Topeka, KCK, Johnson Co. (the largest pop. centers in the state). we would not boost already very solid media coverage.

the only way i see a series....would be one four game game in the Koch center...two in Allen...and one at Sprint Center...and that's it. not a home and home every year...and this series would probably be spread out a bit. that's the only way. and it would probably only happen in say year 2020 and beyond....when Self is planning his retirement, and it's a nice farewell. it won't happen in the next five years for matter who's the coach down there.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 8 months ago

I like the attitude of "play anyone anywhere, anytime." Period.

kltbadboyz 10 years, 8 months ago

As a KU fan living in Wichita, I would love to see KU play WSU. Even a series with 1 game in Allen, 1 in Sprint Center, and 1 in Intrust Bank Arena would be great. I bet half the fans in Wichita would be KU fans. If not WSU , schedule top teams from either the MVC, CAA, or Horizon leagues. I mean even if theres a threat of losing, I wouldn't mind because this would prepare us for teams like these in the tourney. I would risk losing a regular season game any day to be more assured of a tourney win. After all the main goal is to win a national championship, why not be prepared to battle the so call mid majors in the regular season so we can be more prepared to knocked them off in the tourney. I'm tire of being labeled chockers and hearing names like VCU,UNI,Bradley,Bucknell and so on... We need to do everything possible to avoid being knocked off by these smaller schools in the tourney, ultimately achieving our overall goal of a national championship.

DocBean 10 years, 8 months ago

What the hell Tom? You totally just ripped off my post from an earlier article.

Here is what I said: I'm starting to think we should play a team like Wichita State. That's a lose/lose situation for us. You are supposed to beat them, if you don't you have to hear about it. However, that's been exactly what's been biting us in the tournament.

I think I'd offer to play 1 home this coming year, 1 away the following year, and 1 home the next year. They are a really strong "Mid-Major" and I think an early season away game wouldn't kill us financially. We obviously need some work playing against schools that are hungrier to win then we are.

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 8 months ago

Ummmmmmmm because you are the only person that has ever thought about ku vs wsu.

jartiv 10 years, 8 months ago

can we just not write any more articles about basketball for 2 months. Thanks.

bbhawk234 10 years, 8 months ago

No I dont like this idea. Enough as we have Kstate an Missouri. Playing Wichita state is a no win for us unless they are willing to come to the Phog. To much to lose in case we play like we usually do against mid majors. NO NO NO. Save us from being embarrassed. I would rather take on a BYU or hell even Big East teams. I hav an Idea lets play Arkansas I miss Anderson already.

lee3022 10 years, 8 months ago

The KU fans are excited every year when KU is an #1 seed in the tournament. That #1 seed does not just happen. It is a function of careful scheduling by the Athletic Department to cover the bases that the NCAA uses to select. None of us amateurs (that includes you too Mr Keegan) know the intricacies of how that works but we must agree that is is working. If it is not broken, don't fix it.

As for preparing to play mid-majors, this idea is very limited. Each year the teams we do play are selected to be ready to play well in that year. For smaller teams that usually means a heavy senior presence on the team. Also used as a basis of selection is the type of system run both for offense and defense to provide broader exposure in readying them for the tournament. This year we played Michigan at Michigan. That game was excellent preparation for Richmond as both play the Princeton Offense. We had little trouble dealing with Richmond in the Sweet Sixteen. There was nothing unusual about VCU. They were simply a better team than KU that day.

Recruiting in Kansas, Oklahoma and surrounds has been lately good for KU. Playing Wichita State as if they were equal (home and home) does not help KU but only WSU. If Wichita State wants to play KU the door has been open for them in Allen Field House.

Finally I am not happy to see a LJW writer push for other schools to select Danny Manning as their head coach. Danny will get his opportunity in due time. But until that time comes his value is great to the KU team.

klineisanazi 10 years, 8 months ago

Coming off consecutive years where KU lost to a mid-major in the NCAA tournament as a #1 seed is the least probable time for Self to schedule Wichita State. He has responded to questions about it before, and did not rule it out, but indicated that as the new coach following Roy, the last thing he wanted to do is jump in the middle of a WSU series. I can't see Self and a new AD saying-"-Hey, just the ticket after 2 early exits in the NCAA tournament--lets play an up and coming WSU program! Let's extend them a helping hand! And in the bargain, maybe we will get upset so everybody can talk about how our coach can't beat mid-majors. " Won't happen.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 8 months ago

Coach Self: Take one season .. play anyone, anywhere, anytime .. make it a national spectacle. Tuesday at George Mason; Friday at Wichita St; Wednesday at home vs. Gonzaga; Sunday at home vs. St. Johns; Thursday at Charlotte vs. Duke; Saturday at Western Kentucky. Bring 'em on .... anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Talk about creating an attitude.

I know, money generated by home games stands in the way. But perhaps an interesting thought.

MinMax 10 years, 8 months ago

Stupid thought. We lose one game, KU suffers in the polls. We play close one game, KU suffers. Don't blow out a mediocre Wichita team by enough, KU suffers. Run the gambit, and we haven't beaten anyone. Dumb thought.

MinMax 10 years, 8 months ago

What in your right mind makes you think that WSU would be an "emotional rivalry". Because you believe it is so? Get real. I get depressed entering Sedgwick county and I have family there. The only emotion would be depression. Oh, we are playing this would be mid-major again? As to your second point, KU is doing ESU a major favor. ESU balances their athletic budget around the payout they receive from playing in AFH. Same with Washburn and FHSU.

yates33333 10 years, 8 months ago

I agree with the idea of playing home and home against more "mid-majors." The Missouri Valley lineup would be one close by, as would "mid-major" Iowa and Illinois schools. The problem may well be money as well as prestige. Their courts can't hold 16,000 fans, and they would demand the lion's share of the gate. Forget it, KU basketball already makes a gob of money.

What I don't agree with is Keegan's effort to ship Danny Manning to WSU. Their coach has done a good job. They are playing tomorrow for the NIT championship. Alabama will probably be favored, but WSU could beat them. I thought Manning was coaching at KU because he was tired of spending time playing golf or whatever a man in his position in life does with the leisure time. Anyway KU needs him.

BTW, Keegan has a knack for writing a good column and then ruining it with a hair-brained idea at the end.

rhall42 10 years, 8 months ago

Keegan...that's a GREAT idea! However, that will not happen because the CHICKEN HAWKS are afraid that they get BEAT again like they did in New Orleans.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 8 months ago

I think it would be pretty sweet if KU and WSU played regularly. After last season, I really wanted to see KU play a tough non-conference schedule this year to get tested early, but that didn't really happen. WSU would be a good test early in the season (better than Washburn, Fort Hays State, Emporia State, etc) , which is something I think any team needs. A few tough losses early can help a team become more cohesive and learn from mistakes. Its not like KU has nothing to gain. That's why I'm really glad we scheduled Kentucky (Champions Classic is a great idea) and Ohio State next season; it'll give our players a glimpse of the level they'll need to play at to be successful in the NCAA tournament.

Steve Brown 10 years, 8 months ago

Took me a longtime to get over the Darnell Valentine WSU no call. It's financial so play AFH then Intrust where we split the gate then AFH.

Old days they stopped playing us when they wanted 1:1 no longer the arranged 2:1 that we deserved and still deserve.

Play them, no sweat if we lose it would be growth experience. Also play SWMoState and Creighton and Tulsa regional middies so what. Also, let's start a home and home with Anderson and Arkansas..

jayhawktalk 10 years, 8 months ago

I have the world's best idea. Since the Big 12 (10) is horrible, and since playing more mid majors is the best possible way to better prepare for the tournament, KU should depart the "new" Big 10 after next year and join the MVC. KU would then have the much coveted home & home vs WSU, while also getting oodles of that ever sought after exposure to mid majors. It is so obvious that I cannot believe this has not been done already.

Mike Gammill 10 years, 8 months ago

C'mon! Schedule the Kentuckys, Dukes, and North Carolinas. I'm sure they'd be willing to do a home and home. Quit filling up on cupcakes and get some real non-conference competition in there.

I bet it would help come Elite 8 time!

rhall42 10 years, 8 months ago

Now that Wichita State has won the NIT, this would be a GREAT time to take the challenge and play a home and home with WSU.

MinMax 10 years, 8 months ago

NIT champs. Wooo! WSU is still trying to reach for mid-major status. Let's celebrate because they won the NIT! Guess what, the NIT was playing second fiddle to the women's tournament. If that doesn't give you perspective, then nothing will. Playing WSU to solely appease their crybaby fans is a net loss.

Maracas 10 years, 8 months ago

The history of WSU does not show a program that has been consistently "competitive". I don't know where this nonsense comes from unless Keegan is regurgitating WSU spin. I'm up for scheduling WSU at AFH for exhibition games now and again, but that's as far as it should extend. KU can play its non-con games in venues where recruiting makes sense or dollars make sense. Any potential recruit from Kansas can find his way to Lawrence just as easily as he can find his way to Wichita. Those non-con games shouldn't be wasted on the likes of WSU.

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