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Tuesday, March 8, 2011

Not without fault: Bill Self confesses shortcoming after winning AP award

Kansas head coach Bill Self smiles as he listens to forward Mario Little's senior speech following the Jayhawks' 64-51 win over Texas A&M on Wednesday, March 2, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas head coach Bill Self smiles as he listens to forward Mario Little's senior speech following the Jayhawks' 64-51 win over Texas A&M on Wednesday, March 2, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

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Bill Self weekly press conference, March. 7, 2011

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Kansas head coach Bill Self addressed the media at his weekly press conference Monday, March 7, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas University’s Bill Self, who was named the Associated Press Big 12 Coach of the Year on Monday — a day after the league coaches accorded him the same honor — insists he has his faults.

The man who has led KU, Illinois and Tulsa to 11 league championships in the last 13 years — his squads took second the other two years — reprimanded himself publicly Monday for perhaps not allowing his players to enjoy their successes as much as he should.

“One thing I’ve done a very poor job with my team is always talking about ‘next game,’’’ said Self, whose Jayhawks are 62-5 the last two seasons. “They (players) have become very robotic in thinking ‘next game,’ which is good in an NBA season, but in a college season, hey, this is a big deal to win a championship.

“We need to enjoy the wins more from this point forward,” added Self, whose Jayhawks wrapped up their seventh straight Big 12 title on Saturday at Missouri. On Monday it was revealed he drew 16 of 22 coach-of-the-year votes from individuals who regularly cover the Big 12. Texas A&M’s Mark Turgeon received three votes, Colorado’s Tad Boyle had two and Kansas State’s Frank Martin one.

“It’s something I have to stress to the guys. A lot of places we’d be cutting down nets and doing everything else when you win a conference championship. Here these guys think, ‘That’s what we’re supposed to do. We did our job,’ and they have done their job and done it very well, and they need to feel that from me more. I can do a better job of that,” Self said.

The Jayhawks obviously couldn’t cut down the nets in Mizzou Arena and didn’t want to celebrate after last Wednesday’s home win over Texas A&M, considering that just meant KU had claimed a share of the 2010-11 crown.

“You’ve got to be able to blow off steam,” Self said. “Baseball players, after a guy pitches a no-no, everybody runs out and jumps on him (pitcher). We haven’t had any of that. Football teams that have huge wins ... we haven’t had any of that stuff because there’s always the next game.

“I know in other sports you have the next game, too, but it’s not two days later. I need to do a better job of showing them how much I appreciate their efforts because their efforts have been unbelievable, absolutely remarkable. The last few years, these guys have done some things in my wildest dreams I would never thought they could accomplish from a winning standpoint.

“When you start adding up championship opportunities in our league and how many these guys have won, it’s staggering. Not to celebrate that as much as we do, I think is doing those players a disservice. We have to do a better job of that,” he noted.

Self, who expressed regret he didn’t let his players cut down the nets at Sprint Center last year after winning the Big 12 tournament — “I didn’t let ’em cause we had bigger fish to fry” — will feel better upon being reminded he actually did let the players celebrate that day.

“We did. He’s getting old, man. He forgets. He’s getting old,” junior Marcus Morris joked, remembering the net-snipping ceremony after a title win over Kansas State.

Senior Tyrel Reed said the players have celebrated “in their own ways. Since I’ve been here, we’ve won four regular-season championships. It’s an amazing feat. Down at the core, we know how big a deal it is. We may not celebrate in public, cutting down nets, but we still celebrate.”

Self did make sure to congratulate his team at practice Monday. Some of the Big 12 coaches, in turn, congratulated Self on a job well done.

“It’s pretty amazing,” Texas A&M coach Mark Turgeon told the AP. “Bill’s done a great job. I’ve been here four years, and it seems like every time we play them they’re ranked either No. 1 or No. 2 in the country. They have a toughness, and they win road games other teams can’t win.”

Noted KSU’s Martin: “For Kansas to do what they’ve done, seven consecutive years, is remarkable. It’s a credit to Bill Self. It’s a credit to his assistants, to their recruiting, their consistency in handling young men, making them perform, and getting people to coexist and put their egos aside and play and compete. That’s hard to do one year. But to do it seven years in a row is just amazing.”

Self has won the AP honor in three of his eight seasons at KU.

“I appreciate that people recognize the success we’ve had, and this is going to sound like coach-speak, but it really is the players who win championships,” Self said.

Comments

Andrew Dunlap 4 years, 1 month ago

Roy who? Yeah, we appreciate ol Roy for setting the standard but Self is a much better coach. He will win 3 or 4 more NCAA championships before retires and will be the son of Phog!

Joe Baker 4 years, 1 month ago

My feelings are mixed with Ol' Roy. I want to like him but he coached some great talent at KU and never won a NC, like Rick Barney Barnes. He then took all the experience to unc where they win two NCs in 7-8 yrs with less talent than he had at KU.

I dunno about a coach who did ok, but never won the big one at KU.

I don't know that Roy ever set a standard. He should have at least one NC at KU. If he were honest as a coach, he would tell you that of all the great success at KU, he failed in that area of his coaching career at KU.

Oh did we ever thank Ol' Roy? Naw. In fact I'd say tanks for nuttin'.

Jabez Harlan 4 years, 1 month ago

Four final fours isn't too bad...

Also, Roy Williams won 80 percent of his games while at KU. That isn't too bad either.

Still, I didn't like the way he left right after losing to Syracuse in the national championship game in 2003. Thought it was pretty classless.

I have since forgiven him because he wore the Jayhawk sticker in 2008 at the championship game after KU crushed UNC a couple of days before. I root for UNC in the ACC all the time now. I like them a whole lot more than coach K.

Jesse Johnson 4 years, 1 month ago

+1

Agreed. I also forgave him when he showed up to watch us win the championship with a Jayhawk pin on his shirt just two days after we whooped his team. I also hate Duke 10X more than North Carolina.

JRandall 4 years, 1 month ago

Roy had some good runs at KU. I agree, he was the good ol boy, seemed to let the team run amuke on the floor at times.. scared to call a time out and get after bone head plays. He did seem afraid of UNC and Duke.. god knows why. KU is a storied as ever.

My strongest feelings are simple. KU's 96-97 team... was Roy's biggest let down. For that team not to win a NC... speechless. There was enough talent on that team for a much lessor coach to coach and win a NC championship.

I appreciate Roy and he made ammends wearing the KU button a few years back. I do yell for him anyday over coach K and Duke.

hawk_of_ages 4 years, 1 month ago

In fairness, it's only because of Roy's great coaching and recruiting that we had such a great '97 team to begin with.

Keep in mind that Arizona had a lot of firepower as well: Miles Simon was the star, but his backcourt mates were Mike Bibby and Jason Terry. That was a hugely talented team that only played up to its potential in the tournament.

addlime 4 years, 1 month ago

Good points. AZ was very good. KU was better, though, and would win that game 9 out of 10 times. They just had a bad game, choked, whatever. I really believe some of those great teams wanted to win so badly for Roy, that it actually created more pressure on them. Maybe that's far fetched, but I can't explain the 97 loss any other way. Thought 08 would get me over it, but its still tough to swallow.

Coach Williams was a great coach for the University of Kansas, and if I ever meet him, I will thank him for that!

hawk_of_ages 4 years, 1 month ago

It also didn't help that Jerod Haase was playing with a broken wrist.

addlime 4 years, 1 month ago

Good points. AZ was very good. KU was better, though, and would win that game 9 out of 10 times. They just had a bad game, choked, whatever. I really believe some of those great teams wanted to win so badly for Roy, that it actually created more pressure on them. Maybe that's far fetched, but I can't explain the 97 loss any other way. Thought 08 would get me over it, but its still tough to swallow.

Coach Williams was a great coach for the University of Kansas, and if I ever meet him, I will thank him for that!

Jacobpaul81 4 years, 1 month ago

1.) I do not fault coaches for not winning the big one. The NCAA championship only came into play in 1939... that's only 71 championships..... considering all the great coaches who didn't win one: Eddie Sutton, Gene Kaedy, Ralph Miller, Lefty Driesell, Norm Stewart... you can't necessarily judge a coach by NCAA Championship wins.

2.) John Wooden started at Indiana State in 1946 as a head coach. Wooden didn't even win a tournament game until 1964 (when he won his first National Title). That's 18 years of coaching without even winning a tourney game... then he went and won 10 of the next 11 championships.

3.) Kansas fans are spoiled. Especially younger fans who don't recall the days of Ted Owens or the work Larry Brown had to do in the 80s. Roy inherited a troubled program in 1988. NCAA probation was scary back in the Pre-Cell Phone Sampson era. Roy inherited some decent role players and did some solid recruiting and he took us to 2 Final Fours in his first 5 seasons including an NCAA Championship game in his 3rd year. That was amazing work.

Roy has/had his limits. His good old boy attitude is terrible. He relied heavily on his assistants and he was scared to recruit against UNC and Duke, programs he deemed higher than his lowly Kansas program. But he brought us Vaughn, LaFrenze and Pierce, three of the best players to wear Kansas across their chest and he turned them into a power house... one of the best Kansas teams to not win it all (Remember, only 71 teams have accomplished that feat).

Am I crazy about Roy? No. I never liked his style of play. Way to run and gun. His guards cherry pick most the game, sacrificing defense for offense and I'm not a fan of that. He also made bumblehead moves (like having Big O on the court at the end of a game). Is he a bad coach? Hell no. He's won 2 national titles, 1 with his own recruits. He's coached in what, 7 Final Fours now? That's a pretty damned good resume.

Jacobpaul81 4 years, 1 month ago

4.) I like Bill but he's made some real bumblehead moves too. Like that last second pass to Wayne Simeon in 2005, or letting Sherron take over when clearly he was an average shooter at best... Someone 5'10" shooting 42% from the field should not be your team's leading scorer. Also, your starting 7' Center should not shoot less than 300 shots per season... both of which happened from 2008-2010. In 2008-2009, SC took 510 shots that season. That's ridiculous.

But Coach did do wonderful work from 2006-2008, turning that team into a defensive monster. I wish he could have held onto Arthur, Wright and Chalmers through to their Senior (and Arthur Junior) seasons. That would have been one amazing team to watch with the Morris Twins backing up Arthur and Wright and Chalmers holding down the point. But that's how it goes these days.

I think he's doing a great job this season with his handling of the team. This isn't a standard team and it requires 8-10 players to play during a game unlike previous years. But he's done an excellent job handling that revising of positions. The games we lost we were hurt physically or emotionally and certainly revealed our weakness (IE: the Morris Twins and Thomas have gotta play the whole game), but it also gave Self some great opportunities to rethink his coaching and you can clearly see that now as we reach the end of this season.

So is Self better than Roy? Good coaches are good coaches. Period. We've done well with our last 3 at Kansas.

Congrats Bill on your third Big XII Coach of the Year award. I think you deserved this one more than in any previous year.

Joe Joseph 4 years, 1 month ago

What was wrong with the pass to Simien? The play worked perfectly, he just missed the shot... A shot which Wayne probably makes 9 of 10 in practice.

What are you going to do with 2 seconds left? Inbound the ball in the back court and shoot from half court? The play was executed almost perfectly and resulted in KU having its best player take the final shot at a position on the floor he was comfortable shooting...

Someone back me up on this...

dylans 4 years, 1 month ago

95 times out of 100 Wayne would drop that shot. He was our best free throw shooter at the time and it was basically a free throw. When that shot didn't fall I couldn't believe it.

Ron Prichard 4 years, 1 month ago

Although I have to open up the "Vault of Pain" that I swore I would never do, when recalling the game, you are correct.

Ryan Shelton 4 years, 1 month ago

I'm with you. There was nothing wrong with the coaching on that play, just the execution. As much as we would like to think of our boys as robots, they simply do not make every shot. Get the ball to your best player in a position to make a shot and let the chips fall as they may.

RockChalkGuy 4 years, 1 month ago

Please don't forget that Simien was nursing a bum shoulder and I always suspected this played into him missing that shot.

rockchalk80 4 years, 1 month ago

@jacobpaul81 says "considering all the great coaches who didn't win one: Eddie Sutton, Gene Kaedy, Ralph Miller, Lefty Driesell, Norm Stewart... you can't necessarily judge a coach by NCAA Championship wins."

Norm? great coach? hey... that's taking it too far. :)

RockChalk!

Mike Bratisax 4 years, 1 month ago

Should have been 5..the 96-97 team. Oh well.

Mike Bratisax 4 years, 1 month ago

I hope that someday people will finally let this issue go. HCBS seems to either go out real early or make a good run in the NCAA..very similar to HCRW. Roy has won 2 NCs at UNC and is very likely COY in the ACC. Roy really stepped in and did a great job as soon as Larry Brown left and HCBS did the same when Roy left.

Which coach is better? Who cares? I'm glad we had both. Stop beating a dead horse.

fikeasaurus 4 years, 1 month ago

Thanks for the clarity and simplicity of those comments. HCBS has lots of time and recruiting power on his side. Good things to come for many years.

Cmill1221 4 years, 1 month ago

I find it funny that Frank Martin got a vote! I mean were they not picked to win the confrence? Whatever. Congrats Bill and Marcus!

kufaninmo 4 years, 1 month ago

...and I'll betcha Bill himself gave Martin that vote!

Jeff Coffman 4 years, 1 month ago

Wasn't it an AP vote (writers)?

Anyways, if driving away 3-4 players and coming in as #4 in the Big XII when you were basically picked to win it by everyone, you can clearly see that the goals and aspirations are much lower at K-State....

Ron Prichard 4 years, 1 month ago

I think it is very easy to criticize Martin for his coaching performance the first part of the year, and deservedly so. However, the turnaround KSU has shown after he switched offenses (credit must be given to his assistants, too) is truly remarkable. That team is much better without those players that left than it was with them.

Out of all the teams I can think of, that is one team I have no desire to play in the NCAA tourney.

tis4tim 4 years, 1 month ago

Personally, I think Frank Martin has done a terrific job this year. Sure, KSU was picked first in the league, but most of us here and plenty of others thought that was a ridiculous notion to begin with. It's even more ridiculous when you take into account the loss of Clemente to the pros and Sutton to North Carolina-Central via transfer.

Considering the suspensions and defections that affected his team, plus the fact that year after year Kansas and Texas are generally head and shoulders above the others in terms of talent and expectations, I don't see how piss-poor prognostication should in any way diminish Martin's accomplishments.

I think this is Self's finest coaching job to date and he deserves the award, but I can certainly understand why someone would cast his vote for Martin.

Cmill1221 4 years, 1 month ago

What if the schedule was flipped and ksu won 4 of there first 5 including wins vs KU and Texas and in there last 5 games had two losses to Colorado a loss to Nebraska and a beat down in Allen field house? I don't think people would be voting for him if that's how it played out. And yes KU fans knew it was outrageous for them to be picked to win the league, however they were and by a wide margin. And finishing 4th isn't good. He has done a great job since he has been at k-state and if there was a coach of the last 4 years award he could get some votes (even tho self would win that also). Fact is when ur picked 1st out of 12 and finish 4th you didn't get the job done.

tis4tim 4 years, 1 month ago

"Fact is when ur picked 1st out of 12 and finish 4th you didn't get the job done."

I guess we'll have to disagree on that point.

The "experts" are not always right and in some cases (I'm looking at you Joe Lunardi) they are way, way off. Trying to foresee everything that is going to occur in a season is futile at best, which is why no one should put much stock in pre-season rankings. They mean nothing.

We all laughed at Dickie V for picking KU 5th pre-season. But, if you knew in advance all the misfortune that would befall this team with regard to injuries, suspensions, deaths in the family and the like, his pre-season rank wouldn't look so bad. This year's circumstances came ever so close to making him look like a genius. In reality, though, he looks like a fool because, while he couldn't predict all the misfortune, he also couldn't predict how our team would handle it, something we've done very, very well.

On the contrary, if KU had not handled it so well all those people picking KSU #1 might not look so foolish right now either. The point is, you can't know how things turn out until they turn out. KSU started poorly, dealt with suspensions and quitters and ended strongly. For that, Martin is deserving of any COY votes he gets and should not be dismissed just because some "experts" picked his team #1 before they set foot on the court.

Alohahawk 4 years, 1 month ago

"Pay heed, all who enter. Beware of Coach Self"

Of the few who have coached the Jayhawks over the years, which one can claim the most conference championships, and how many has that coach won? Just curious.

Chicago_JHawk 4 years, 1 month ago

Allen 24, Hamilton 5, Harp 2, Owens 6, Brown 1, Williams 9, Self 7

panalytic 4 years, 1 month ago

Is this right? Catching up on Roy already and only one for Brown in those five years...

Jacobpaul81 4 years, 1 month ago

From 1989-2003:

Roy Williams - 9 - 91, 92, 93, 95, 96, 97, 98, 02, 03 Larry Eustachy - 2 - 00, 01 Eddie Sutton - 1 - 91 Norm Stewart - 2 - 90, 04 Rick Barnes - 1- 99 Billy Tubbs - 1 - 1989

Jacobpaul81 4 years, 1 month ago

04 under Norm Stewart should read 94. Bill Self was coach of Kansas in 2004 (and Eddie Sutton won his second conference title that year).

KU_FanSince75 4 years, 1 month ago

Geeze-----24 by Allen. I knew it was an unbelievable number but 24? Allen was unreal. With Williams having 9, Self will erase that number while he continues to coach at KU. HCBS is the best coach in America. He can say what he wants, as far as, "the players win Championships," but he is the best coach. Love to listen to him during the press conferences.

Jacobpaul81 4 years, 1 month ago

Williams had Sutton, Stewart and Eustacy to compete with. All were top tier coaches.

Self hasn't had quite the competition since Sutton's retirement but up and comers like Mark Turgeon, Mike Anderson (it's hard to not like the guy, even when he's at Missouri) and Scott Drew could all potentially be as good as Sutton, Stewart and Eustacy. We'll just have to wait and see.

baldwinjhawk 4 years, 1 month ago

We have something like 55 conference championships in 110 years of playing. That is a crazy number by any standard . RCJH!

khawk75 4 years, 1 month ago

54 in 104 years of conference play (52%). 113 years overall. Kentucky is next with 50. Great to be a Jayhawk

Alohahawk 4 years, 1 month ago

Mahalo & aloha. Didn't realize Alen had that many. Wow!

Carolyn Troupe 4 years, 1 month ago

On a pct basis, Self may be in the lead. Allen had 24, but what? out of 40 or so? Maybe Hamilton has the best pct. But Self has to right up there. Roy was 9 of 15 and Ted was 6 of 18. Am I in the neighborhood of being accurate?

Iandhi 4 years, 1 month ago

"Pay heed, all who enter. Beware of the Phog, and know thy Self."

Jonathan Allison 4 years, 1 month ago

"There is nothing to fear, but fear, it's Self!"

PhogAdvisory 4 years, 1 month ago

Very nice. And it sort of feels like the groundwork for a Shakespearean monologue. Hm... I may have to work on that when I get some free time.

In the meantime: "Once more into the Big 12 tourney, dear friends!"

crmsnblu 4 years, 1 month ago

that would actually look good attached to the timeless banner that is already there some day

Steve Yeakel 4 years, 1 month ago

Bill's last bastion of improvement is just to consistently get his teams to play their very best the last 6 games of the year. Sometimes when you celebrate too much, too early, you lose your edge, so it sounds like he is trying to balance having fun and enjoying the journey along the way, with not losing that edge of having to play your very best, in every one of those last (hopefully) 6 games, to not go flat in the first or second round by assuming you can win, etc. Congratulations Coach Self for getting this far. Congratulations to a great Jayhawk team this year, so far. Finish with all you have. Go Jayhawks.

Viggo3003 4 years, 1 month ago

I love when and how Bill Self enters AFH before the games and the crowd goes wild. He is a ROCKSTAR baby.

omng392 4 years, 1 month ago

That would make for one hell of a skit next year at Late Night... Win the 2011 national championship and then have court flooded and have Self walk across!!! Classic!!!

SaulGood 4 years, 1 month ago

Look up Charlie Sheen on Google News or something...guy's gone completely sideways, or so it seems. The adrenachrome's got right on top of him.

oldalum 4 years, 1 month ago

I know about Charlie Sheen. I was trying to think of a basketball Charlie from Missouri!

fansincewilt 4 years, 1 month ago

Bill Self soon will establish himself as the premier coach in Kansas history. Roy Williams won nine championships here but five of them were in the less glorious Big 8. Other coaches, including Allen, did not have nearly the winning percentages that both Williams and Self have. Bill Self's winning percentage is mind boggling. Some (at least one - me) rightfully consider him the best coach in American college basketball. A national championship would completely establish that. He has to beat out his rival Coach K at Duke. His home winning percentage record at Kansas is around 95%, something no other coach can rival.

Mike Bratisax 4 years, 1 month ago

So the 5 in the Big 8 were less glorious? What else should he have done? I guess any future Big 12 champs won't be as glorious with only 10 teams.

We probably shouldn't count any of Phog Allen's championships and while we're at it..give back the 2 Helms Championships since we were in the MVC at the time. Time for the * Genius!

hawk_of_ages 4 years, 1 month ago

The Big 8 and 12 did have more down years during Roy's tenure than during Self's tenure, in my subjective opinion. As I remember it, the conference as a whole was particularly weak in the mid- and late-90s, which I felt was one reason those talented KU teams were not as prepared for March as they could have been.

Mike Bratisax 4 years, 1 month ago

Lets also not forget who coached the team that led the nation in wins and winning percentage during the 90's for the entire decade and was a pathetic 100-12 in the Big 12. Also a measly 201–17 (.922) in Allen Fieldhouse and a 62 home winning streak at one time and a 52 game streak another time. Just for a little perspective.

Hank Cross 4 years, 1 month ago

The B8 during Brown's era was far superior to the B12 at any time. Just think of '88 with 2 B8 teams in the championship 3 in the E8. There were players like Richmond and Hornacek that would actually give KU competitive games.

What have the TX schools brought to B12 BB? A grand total of 1 FF appearance by UT. That's worse than sad.

hawk_of_ages 4 years, 1 month ago

The Big 12 had 3 teams in the Elite 8 back in '02, with two in the Final 4, and they had two in the Final 4 the following year. Even last year with KU choking we had two teams in the Elite 8.

Hank Cross 4 years, 1 month ago

How many B12 teams apart from KU have won the NC in the league's existence? Compare with BE, ACC, and SEC.

hawk_of_ages 4 years, 1 month ago

Why didn't you mention the Big 10? They've only had one champion in that period, too. That doesn't mean they aren't a major, competitive conference.

leonard 4 years, 1 month ago

This from the St.Louis Post-Dispatch:

Missouri coach Mike Anderson hasn't come close to doing something about the Kansas domination under head coach Bill Self. Self has now routinely thrashed two MU coaches, Quin Snyder and Anderson, going 24-9 against Mizzou and winning 10 of the last 11. But MU is hardly alone in its futility against Self and KU.

These are the Big 12 "standings" in conference play since Self took over 2003-2004 season:

  1. KU 107-21 .. .836 winning pct.
  2. Texas 90-38 ... 17 games behind KU.
  3. Texas A&M 69-59 ... 38 games behind KU T-4. Kansas State 68-60 ... 39 games behind KU T-4. Oklahoma State 68-60 ... 39 games behind KU T-4 Oklahoma 68-60 ... 39 games behind KU
  4. Missouri 64-64 ... 43 games behind KU
  5. Texas Tech 53-75 ... 54 games behind KU
  6. Nebraska 50-78 ... 57 games behind KU T-10. Baylor 44-84 ... 63 games behind KU T-10. Colorado 44-84 ... 63 games behind KU
  7. Iowa State 43-85 ... 64 games behind KU

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_86021872-48d6-11e0-b7b5-0017a4a78c22.html

Krohnutz 4 years, 1 month ago

This is a great list. A couple of things really stand out to me.

  1. I did not think Kansas State would be #4 that fast, considering they were in the dumps prior to Huggins.

  2. We are about to lose team #9 and #10/11, and both will probably do better in the conferences they are going to then they did in the Big 12.

100 4 years, 1 month ago

Krohnutz:

KSU was picked to finish first this year. This list shows they finished tied for 4th.

Jacobpaul81 4 years, 1 month ago

That's 4th overall since the inception of the Big XII. It's sad how quick Iowa State has fallen considering they won the Regular Season Twice!

Jonathan Allison 4 years, 1 month ago

it's 4th overall since the introduction of Bill Self to the Big 12.

LAJayhawk 4 years, 1 month ago

They play 128 conference games this year?? Impressive!!

100 4 years, 1 month ago

Sorry boys. Thanks for straightening me out, I just glanced (strange because these rankings closely reflect what it is this year).

That said, I guess this is where I would expect the Purples to be after hiring Huggins & Martin. A three way tie for fourth.

If Martin would have done like any other respectable coach in the history of KSU would have done (Kruger, Altman, Ahearn), Kelly would have sat out a bare minimum of one game after the hearing.

That one game by itself would have pulled them out of this three way deadlock for 4th & put them in 6th place, which is probably a more reasonable place for a school that hires Bob Huggins.

Supported all fellow conference schools for years boys. I can't stand to look at Huggins & Martin anymore. Most of respectful KU fans do a great job of not caring.

I can see right through this whole sharade. I'm glad KSU won a few more games because of the Huggins hire, it gave the conference a slightly bigger profile.

But it makes me feel really dirty. Especially when their assistant coach with the DC connections.... OK I'll stop there....

It's just not right & it makes me sick.

I could be happy as a Kansan when Kruger won. Or Ahearn. But not Huggins or Martin.

I feel like I've seen the mafia take over the KSU program.

Still baffled that KSU, a very respectful institution, was forced to keep their mouths shut by Martin after a hearing Martin wasn't even allowed to be at. I don't like that their athletic office leaked information, but they did.

Once you see squarely what's going on, it's hard to regain the respect.

As an ex coach I can tell you it is going on.

I will go right back to respecting them like Iowa State, Colorado, Nebraska once they get a coach who reflects the values of men like Kruger or Ahearn.

Right now I almost feel sorry for their fanbase. They deserve something better. And I'm not talking about wins/losses.

Jayhawk1116 4 years, 1 month ago

"Pay heed, all who enter. Beware of the sunspots."

REHawk 4 years, 1 month ago

leonard: Nice contribution. This is why I spend up to an hour a day reading LJW posts during hoops seasons.

Funhawk 4 years, 1 month ago

Recall last March during the NCAA tournament, what a reporter said. The reporter was in both team's locker room right before the game. One team's pre-game locker room was somber and quiet, very serious. Their underdog opponent's pre-game locker room was a party of loud, blaring music and players celebrating like they had already won the game. Then three hours later, after the game in which we got upset, each locker room was just as before the game - one quiet and somber, the other blaring with loud music. Enjoy today because there may not be a tomorrow for you.

William Leoni 4 years, 1 month ago

"The Jayhawks obviously couldn’t cut down the nets in Mizzou Arena...."

Of course the 'Hawks would never do that but does Gary or anybody else out there remember when OU cut the nets down in AFH after winning a game in OT and merely clinching a tie of the Big 8 title circa 1985? In the same game, I recall Billy Tubbs calling a time out with just seconds to play with the game already well in hand. And when the Jayhawk faithful cascaded him with a chorus of boos, he gave us a one-finger salute! Classless.

Krohnutz 4 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, but would you want even a hated rival to be able to put your name in the same breath as a Billy Tubbs team?

That guy was an a s s hole.

KU_FanSince75 4 years, 1 month ago

Oh, I remembered big time. Brown was saying, "What comes around, goes around." And it came around, "Big Time," for OU.

ku_foaf 4 years, 1 month ago

I think that was '84? They stood with their arms around each other singing while we scored a meaningless basket at the end, then cut down the nets.

We beat them in the Big 12 Tournament and Tisdale sat on the ground pounding his fist saying "no! no! no!" It was sweet revenge.

zsn 4 years, 1 month ago

Yep, very well. 1984 - I was there...Calvin Thompson hit a half-court shot at the buzzer to send it to OT. That was the first game where I showed up an hour before tip-off and couldn't find a seat in the student section behind the bench - Larry was a hoot!! Of course, that was also the last game I tried that!

OU's classless move is why we don't cut nets at other arenas.

Steve Corder 4 years, 1 month ago

I believe it was 1988. OU won the Big 8 and the two regular season match-ups. We paid Tubbs back in the NC game.

Rick Arnoldy 4 years, 1 month ago

Had to have been 84 or 85. He was gone after the 85 season.

rjhawk 4 years, 1 month ago

Billy Tubbs was at OU through the 93-94 season.

Rick Arnoldy 4 years, 1 month ago

I meant Tisdale, not Tubbs. I was at that game and graduated in 86.

idshawn 4 years, 1 month ago

It was spring 84, didn't lose again until spring 88 (almsot made it all four of my college years without seeing them lose at home!), and again it was to Oklahoma, but we got sweet revenge in Kemper at the Natl Champ game! Tied 50 to 50 at half of the 50th anniversary of the tournament!

REHawk 4 years, 1 month ago

Bill Self's comments today, though obviously an expression from his heart, go a long way to display his coaching genius. His players get an inside view of the man he really is...while knowing, down deep, that yeah, we still have to look ahead immediately to our next game!

Chris1955 4 years, 1 month ago

"Pay heed all who enter. Beware of the Phog and Self immolation."

Linda Daxon 4 years, 1 month ago

With pleasure. Thanks for keeping this in front of us everyday. Tyrel deserves all the honors he can get, and then some. What a rock!

RockCaCO3 4 years, 1 month ago

"Not to celebrate that as much as we do, I think is doing those players a disservice."

Chuckee Cheese.

Ben Simonett 4 years, 1 month ago

Bucknell, Bradley, UNI....

yeah, keeping them thinking "next game" has really paid off so far.

might as well switch it up. what do you have to lose?

gdoggwr 4 years, 1 month ago

Villanova, Davidson, UNC, Memphis

"next game" worked pretty good that year

just sayin'

Kye Clark 4 years, 1 month ago

Portland State, UNLV, Villanova, Davidson, North Carolina, Memphis.

It paid off at least once. That one time is what they would have had to lose.

KU_FanSince75 4 years, 1 month ago

316---

It is safe to say, that some fans that cheer for other teams are jealous of the Jayhawks success, whether it be in the regular season or post-season. Yep, the Bucknell, Bradley and UNI losses were gut wrenching (even the 96-97 season where we lost to Zona was hurtful---I didn't get over that one for a long time), but every season, the KU fans expect nothing less than a run at a National Championship. Hey, it's playing at Kansas, baby! I would rather be in this boat any day. Jayhawk Nation is hoping for nine more games. The last six are the most important. Rock Chalk! Let the Madness begin!

PhogAdvisory 4 years, 1 month ago

Seven conference titles...

Four Big 12 tournament championships...

One national championship, two elite eights, a sweet sixteen...

And a .837 winning percentage.

But no, you're right. Clearly three unfortunate games outweigh all those phenomenal achievements.

RCJH. Love my Self. Wouldn't trade him for anybody.

Scott Oswalt 4 years, 1 month ago

bettyboop, I mean bennybob,

Go crawl back into your cave in the basement of your mothers house.

Chris Shaw 4 years, 1 month ago

I really enjoyed this article. In a season that has a lot of parity I think Coach Self is really trying to figure out how to get this team to a Final Four. I'm liking the fact that he's understanding his downfalls and trying to do something to change it up.

I do have to admit that I'm nervous about playing a senior dominated team with experience (Utah State or St. Johns) that values possessions and preaches defense. I just hope Self understands the in-game decisions and values that as much as he is currently with his off the court deficiencies.

Less than a week away till Selection Sunday and for some reason I'm more nervous about how this season will end more so than the other years recently. IMO, it's important to have a decent run in the NCAA tourny and get things back on track (After last year's flameout) to rid KU of this "Negative Stigma" and gain some momentum in terms of recruiting. Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

Studogg 4 years, 1 month ago

Great observation, kenshin! I love it!!

PVJayhawk 4 years, 1 month ago

How is it that nobody has used "Self Abuse"?

exiledhawkfan 4 years, 1 month ago

Actually, I'm sensing a lot of "Self Love" from the users of this message board.

Steve Williams 4 years, 1 month ago

Enjoy it April 4th, in Houston,,, celebrate then

Dont let their heads get too big

Ali Farokmanesh

Joe Baker 4 years, 1 month ago

Gawd- That name will forever live in KU infamy!@#$%^&*

murph 4 years, 1 month ago

What Ali did was take - and make - the wide-open shot he was given. He did his job, unlike whoever it was who was supposed to be guarding him. It's not like it was a surprise that he might do exactly what he did - he'd been doing it successfully all night. I'm not sure who it was now, but I think it was Sherron who looked at Farokmanesh standing in that favored spot of his and ran to the basket instead of to the player. That's who we should be irritated with, not with the player who did his job perfectly. It was a great shot - just as pretty as Mario's in '08. It just wasn't OUR shot.
And that makes all the difference.

Joe Baker 4 years, 1 month ago

Yeah murph, my point exactly. Why don't you open that big old wound and rub that salt in real hard. Make it sting and burn more now than ever.
I don't think anyone faults AF, but his name will remind KU of their horrible, underestimated play. Your points are valid and goes without saying.

Thanks

theend 4 years, 1 month ago

I agree......Self is a better coach than Ol'Roy.......but I still aprreciate what Roy did for KU. Those were 15 good seasons.

I can understand being angry when Roy left.....but when he comes back I think the vast majority of KU fans will give him quite an ovation.

And you know who doesn't get enough attention or praise? Ted Owens. Great coach.

David Hodges 4 years, 1 month ago

Comes back? I'm pretty sure when Roy left for UNC, that is when he returned home. He did win me back a little when he threw on the sticker, but i still get a guilty little pleasure watching them struggle. I, as I am sure many others here, would love to see Roy drop the, "I don't want to get beat by Kansas in the regular season" attitude. Schedule us Roy, you left, we aren't your home anymore, might be a little nostalgic to come back to AFH; although loosing in AFH might feel a little weird for you.

Helen Gross 4 years, 1 month ago

Will never happen, if Ol Roy comes back, he will be booed all the way back to NC!!!

hawk_of_ages 4 years, 1 month ago

Really? Then why doesn't Larry Brown get booed at AFH? He said he was going to stay, then left for big bucks in the NBA just before NCAA penalties kicked in for his recruiting violations. Roy, on the other hand, left the program in great shape for his successor -- and only left because of (a) family reasons and (b) his alma mater needed him.

(I don't think Larry should be booed either, I just don't understand the hate that Roy gets.)

FoCoCoHawk 4 years, 1 month ago

2008...clock running down and KU behind to a hot team. And Bill would not let his players give up: "YOU GOTTA BELIEVE! YOU GOTTA BELIEVE!"

This goes well beyond X's & O's and top notch recruiting and strays into the realm of evangelism. And the Jayhawks responded. I never for a second doubted we would dominate the overtime.

Hawks: Forget Frodo. If you want the Ring, to thine own Self be true.

RCJH!

JCOAK2 4 years, 1 month ago

I don't think that Bill is a bad coach. He's pushing the kids, but I think that it's good that he is recognizing that they are just that, kids! He is an amazing coach and he deserves the award for sure! He's accomplished a lot!

SaulGood 4 years, 1 month ago

I trust that if HCBS wants to reward his players for their hard work, he will find a way to do it tastefully and appropriately. A lot of us are worried about Self throwing an all-nighter in AFH, woofers bumping, drinks and fly honeys everywhere by some of what I've read here. If you celebrate right, you can point out the win, recognize the positives, and still never, for one second, lose focus on the path ahead. "Here's what we've done well...now don't stop because it counts even more going forward!" is a simple way that comes to mind.

tis4tim 4 years, 1 month ago

There's also an old rock n' roll expression that goes:

"How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?"

As long as we clean our plates, we'll get that pudding!

Alohahawk 4 years, 1 month ago

+1 Mahalo, Jaybate, uhh...I mean drgnslyer. :-)

jaybate 4 years, 1 month ago

slayr becoming a writer before our eyes.

Keep getting better.

Writing is like the game.

Some steak, some meatloaf and a lot of reps and trials and failures and suddenly you get it.

Writing requires a philosophy (theme), strategy (logical structure narrative flow), and tactics (grammar, syntax, diction, metaphor).

The object of the game is to fuse the writing to the meaning seamlessly and elegantly. To say what is meant in a sentence that is exactly the right length and complexity to capture essense and nuance without letting a reader see how you do it, or that you are doing it.

Players say they have to learn what the coach has to offer, then get the reps till they can do it without thinking too much, then learn to do it within the flow of other players trying to do the same thing, then become a fused team operating as one engine, then operating as one mind, then operating as one heart...Dancing Wu Li Masters in shorts and tennies.

Writing is like that. Only you are the coach, the individual, and parts of your mind are your teammates. But the fans are the fans. Some understand. Some don't. But it really jazzes them up, when you get to one heart.

One heart.

And there's almost no end to what you can add and strip away to scheme it to the game at hand.

Rock Chalk, slayr, Rock Chalk!

Celebrate, then next!

Matt1958 4 years, 1 month ago

Jaybate, What's your take on Braeden Anderson? Looks to me like we're taking a really hard look at him.

Ben Kane 4 years, 1 month ago

Could 'need' lead Anderson to Kansas? 1:01 PM ETKansas Jayhawks Top EmailComments Share Being one of the last high profile big men to commit to a school is working out well for Braeden Anderson. We told you last week that the 6-foot-8, 222-pound power forward was likely down to Kansas and Kentucky, and the highly sought after big man took an official trip to Lawrence over the weekend.

What he told Aaron Cedeno of Scout.com after his trip is the interesting part. With Kansas' junior big men Marcus and Markieff Morris both expected to think seriously about jumping to the NBA after the season, Anderson realizes that the Jayhawks might be a good fit for him.

"The situation that they have, there's definitely more of a need over there," Anderson said. "Everybody is calling and saying that they have a need, but I feel like the need at Kansas is the most real."

Jack Wilson 4 years, 1 month ago

This is what you get when you strike out on big men in the top 100 ... may not be pretty.

Kye Clark 4 years, 1 month ago

HEM - You're right, but give it time. I don't know much about him and he may be pretty raw at first, but he'll develop (should he come to KU that is). Self has yet to really strike out on any big time post players - not counting the ones who left like Quintrell Thomas and CJ Giles, or Jeff Withey who may still develop.

As for striking out on big men...I imagine it's a combination of a couple of things. First, this class is pretty lousy with talent (whereas next year is pretty loaded). And perhaps the biggest factor is the question of playing time. I think heading into the season it was probably more likely that the Twins would both come back than them leaving a year early. With that uncertainty, what highly touted big man is going to want to come here and sit a year (especially seeing how previously highly touted recruit Jeff Withey has sat for 2 years)? Granted as the season has progressed the perceived likelihood of the Twins both leaving has shifted to become the more probable scenario, but perhaps not before the early signing period was over and most were off the table anyway, and not by the time KU was probably late getting into the game for their services.

Recruiting big time bigs has got to be tough. At KU generally only 3 play major minutes, so if you lose 2 you're left with only one established big. Or consider after '08, all three major minute playing bigs left and only Cole Aldrich was returning. Luckily the Twins became available, but they were de-commits (and even they at times weren't "pretty" their freshman year). Maybe Self can get lucky with a situation like that again. Or shooting for even more luck, maybe the Morris Twins stick around for their senior year.

bradynsdad 4 years, 1 month ago

Hope the mclmores watched the game against mizzou and understand where Ben should attend. Doesn't deandre Daniels still plan to attend ku in the fall?

oldalum 4 years, 1 month ago

I think he still hasn't made a final declaration.

KU_FanSince75 4 years, 1 month ago

Roy has said numerous times that he would not play KU in a regular season game---only in a Tournament game, in which he would have no control over scheduling.

Vincent Patterson 4 years, 1 month ago

I just hope coach uses the past to his advantage and actually go back and watch those BAD tourney losses before this year's tourney. It's one thing when you lose to teams with the caliber of athletes we have and just get outplayed (i.e. Mich. State), but to lose to the likes of Bucknell, Bradley, and then admit that you don't ever go back and watch how you lose your tourney games on tape, and turnaround and lose to UNI in the same fashion last year? I'm sorry but those days of not going back and watching those losses should be over. You know a match up with one of those same midmajors is coming up. Senior laden, runs patient half court sets, fundamentally sound...The last thing you do is let teams like that come in and dictate the pace/tempo of the game, and if they try to, YOU DON"T LET THEM! YOU CHANGE THE PACE!!! YOU'RE KANSAS with loads of depth. RUN THEM OUT OF THE GYM!!! BTW, we all should know what's going to happen Selection Sunday. Best believe the Bucknell Bison will be in our bracket again after they win their tourney on the 11th. Just get ready for it.

oldalum 4 years, 1 month ago

Just because he doesn't watch them doesn't mean that he doesn't force some of his assistants to watch. Can you really imagine Self going into a game unprepared?

RockChalkGuy 4 years, 1 month ago

I can't imagine a coach I'd rather have represent and lead our storied program. Congratulations!

mikehawk 4 years, 1 month ago

Bill Self...always the master psychologist. I think he is doing nothing more with his comments than trying to take the pressure off of his team, to get them loose and let them just go play in the tournament. Especially in the second round. This team, and its fans, and I am one, put all of our eggs in the NCAA basket. We don't really think much about winning the league. We like it. We expect it. But it is not the standard we measure ourselves against. He needs his team playing loose and I think he is trying to set the mood to get them more relaxed and loose going into the tournament. The need to motivate for the league grind is over. They will be ready to play from here out. The looser they play, the more effective they will be. Get too tight, and they can get into trouble when the fall behind. And they will fall behind somewhere. The basket gets real small when you tighten up. Relax guys, and play your game. You are good.

4 years, 1 month ago

Good article from Jason King today on Billy Gillespie, with some quotes from Coach Self and Coach Brown…

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jn-gillispie030811

Kye Clark 4 years, 1 month ago

Thanks for the link. Good read.

If I'm Texas Tech, I can't be offering Gillispie a job fast enough. Already has had success in the state, and I think he'd immediately be in the top handful of coaches in the shrinking Big 12 (I'd asked this before and never got a response, but does anyone know what the conference is going to be called next year? If it's out there I missed it).

oldalum 4 years, 1 month ago

From what I've heard, they aren't going to change it. We will stay Big 12.

Kye Clark 4 years, 1 month ago

Ugh...I hope not. I think it's ridiculous the Big Ten has kept the "Ten" all these years with eleven teams and will continue to do that with twelve teams next year. Maybe when we ship them Nebraska we could organize a merchandise swap - all their "Big Ten" stuff for our "Big XII" stuff.

Due to constant conference realignments, I think picking a name that does not include the number of teams in the league would be wise.

4 years, 1 month ago

You bet, ict. Completely agree with the Texas Tech thoughts.

Regarding the conference name change, it appears they are still looking at that possibility. From a recent Q&A blog with commissioner Dan Beebe:

“What about the conference name and logo? Anything definitive happening there?

DB: We're looking at all that. By June, we want to have a decision on it. This group has done a great job of going around and gathering information from our people and trying to figure out what is our purpose and how we want to position ourselves going forward.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/39601/qa-dan-beebe-on-the-big-12s-future

Kevin Long 4 years, 1 month ago

It makes me mad that people still want to compare Roy and Bill. Bill has won US a national title!!! Roy may have done it in Carolina, but he never did it here! I think he will win another one at some point too. Then will he finally be better???

REHawk 4 years, 1 month ago

txrochchalk, thanks for the Jason King link. I really hope to see Billy G. back in the Big 12 someday. If not Tech, perhaps Baylor will wish to clean up their image soon.

100 4 years, 1 month ago

Troll note: below we have theend & eagle64 as the same poster!!!!!!!!!

theend 4 years, 1 month ago

Everybody should stop critisizing Sherron Collins in this latest episode of missing the planes. You have no idea what the whole story is. NONE.

And if you doubt his character.....take another look at his senior night speech on youtube. Sure he is arrogant and head-strong.....but he backed it up with his play. He is a great kid.

Get off his back.

theend 4 years, 1 month ago

You don't know a single thing about him....except what the media tells you.

1 incedent/mistake in 4 years of college??? And who knows what really happenned. You do realize he is just a kid, right?

Show me specifically that Sherron does not support all his children.

Jared Grillot 4 years, 1 month ago

You are a difficult one to figure out, sir. I appreciate that.

wyansas 4 years, 1 month ago

Haven't read all of the comments, so I don't know if this has already been mentioned. Maybe coach thinks he needs to let his kids blow off more steam during the season so they don't feel they need to blow off steam by doing other things which can get them suspended from the team. Maybe the rise in suspensions this year is what's spurring him to make such an adjustment in his motivational style. I agree though, we should let kids enjoy their accomplishments more.

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