Friday, June 24, 2011


Josh Selby missed his shot

Kansas guard Josh Selby cuts to the bucket past Miami (Ohio) University defenders Julian Mavunga (4) and Orlando Williams (15) during the second half, Sunday, Jan. 2, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas guard Josh Selby cuts to the bucket past Miami (Ohio) University defenders Julian Mavunga (4) and Orlando Williams (15) during the second half, Sunday, Jan. 2, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Josh Selby’s post-season, pre-draft tour took much the same path as his short time in the Kansas University basketball program. It started with so much promise, veered off path and wound up in the ditch.

Selby drew raves for his initial individual workouts from NBA teams, shot up into the middle of the first round in many mock drafts, talked about leaving bad Kansas memories behind him. Now, if he’s honest with himself, he must wish he had Kansas in his future. Big if.

Shortly before Thursday night’s draft, a league source said Selby’s stock had slipped because his foot had not healed properly and there was concern he might have “weak knees.” When your only memorable college performance comes in your debut, it doesn’t take much to give general managers weak knees.

Second-round draft choices don’t get guaranteed contracts and first-round picks do. Selby could have played his way into the first round if his body and body language became healthier as a sophomore at Kansas. Instead, he quit on the whole idea that he needed college basketball to grow as a player and person.

No way Selby improves as much sitting the bench in Memphis or fighting for playing time in the Developmental League as he would battling in Bill Self’s intense practices, playing high-pressure games and trying to lead a young team. The needed personal polish he could have attained from attending classes and interacting with students might have helped him in life.

Yet, the silly rule set in place by the NBA allows colleges to be used by professional basketball for a year to test and market the future talent gives Selby the chance to leave college basketball without leaving or taking anything from it.

The one-and-done NBA rule and the vast majority of players who take advantage of it make a mockery of the first half of the student-athlete phrase so often uttered at NCAA Tournament press conferences.

In contrast, Marcus and Markieff Morris grew as men and basketball players during their three years in Kansas. If they never earn degrees, that doesn’t mean they didn’t get as much out of their experience as students who walk the hill do.

Selby might suit up for some Grizzlies games, though the D-League, home of plenty of bad body language, appears a more likely destination. The Grizzlies lone 2011 draft pick, Selby has a shot to beat out reserve guard Ish Smith. Who?


Selby’s slip supplied suspense to ESPN’s telecast, especially when, with the 45th pick, the New Orleans Hornets selected Josh ... Harrellson.

Markieff Morris getting taken ahead of Marcus qualified as a mild surprise, as did Selby’s drop all the way to 49th.

The most predictable draft development: ESPN’s Jeff Van Gundy was the star of the night.

Nothing about Van Gundy, from his common-sense to his candid humor, screams TV guy. He throws out great questions in down-home sports philosopher fashion, such as: “Why do players get in shape after the season?” And: “Why in the draft room do they clap after their pick? They knew who they were picking. Why do they clap?”

Will anybody ever clap for Selby the way so many did during the USC game in Allen Fieldhouse?


Curtis Stutz 8 years, 7 months ago

Sadly as was pointed out to me by a UK fan, Selby is a black eye on recruiting for KU, a top ranked player that slipped to #49 in the draft Self did what he could to allow Selby to develop on the court and show his talent, but unfortunately for all involved it didn't work out It's not KU's fault, it's not Selby's fault, just the way the cookie crumbled I think he's got a shot at playing meaningful minutes on an up and coming Memphis team if he can get healthy Good luck Josh, work hard and let the details work themselves out I know I'll remember a great performance against USC that kept an amazing home winning streak alive and a heck of a first half in Boulder (though I was at the game and running a 105 degree fever, so I could be off base on that)

jayhog 8 years, 7 months ago

Having 3 players selected in the NBA draft is never a black-eye for any program. Oh, and Kentucky's third player selected, Liggins, was drafted after Selby.

It's time to start rooting for Selby and stop tearing him down. If Selby is successful in the NBA, no one outside of Rock Chalk Nation will remember that he disappointed at Kansas. All they will know is that he went to Kansas, and that can be a powerful recruiting tool.

However, if Selby fails in the NBA, programs will use that as a means to sway recruits away from Kansas and Self's coaching by saying that he can't prepare "one and doners" for the NBA. Its not too late for Selby to help Kansas. He just has to do it at the next level, by having the type of career that inspires young recruits to follow in his Kansas footsteps. Hopefully for longer than a year ;-)

ku1otaku 8 years, 7 months ago

Doesn't matter. The one and done rule will be gone eventually and then they can't say anything because Self can definitely DEVELOP talent. He has proven it time and time again.

rwhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

I think Knight, Kanter, Harrelson were before Liggins.

Adam Evans 8 years, 7 months ago

Kanter does not count as a Kentucky player. He never once suited up for them as he was banned from ever playing colegiate ball. Sadly, if all the other young players left from UK, they would have had 3-4 first round picks, again. Even without listing Kanter.

Ann Oneill 8 years, 7 months ago

I think it will serve more as a lesson for players to re-think if they are truly one and done.

Troll_or_AntiTroll 8 years, 7 months ago

It's only going to get worse in August, when Random House publishes "The Mishandling of Josh Selby" (tentative release date)

Chris Bailey 8 years, 7 months ago

You know my brother went to Kentucky and holds 2 degrees both from UK. Funny I've never seen him say anything negative about KU basketball. He looks at the W's. He knows greesy will eventually get this school in trouble as well. One thing I don't understand is why in the He1l do you come on this site and troll????? Go back to the greesy snake and prepare for the scandal. Mishandling Selby?? Yeah Self injured him on purpose! What an idiot!

Troll_or_AntiTroll 8 years, 7 months ago

Sounds like your brother received a quality education, but the perception (among recruits) is the reality.

ahpersecoachingexperience 8 years, 7 months ago

Average d-league salary $30k. Josh, you should of listened!

Yeah, I copied and pasted. What are you going to do about it?

Robin Smith 8 years, 7 months ago

why would I care if you copied and pasted it?

fyi 'should have' rather than 'should of'; it makes aural sense but not real sense.

CrodieBroyle 8 years, 7 months ago

Xavier and Selby on the same team... kinda funny

Hank Cross 8 years, 7 months ago

Another utter garbage piece by Keegan, filled with so much speculation and false assumptions it's not even funny.

" Instead, he quit on the whole idea that he needed college basketball to grow as a player and person."

Keegan as mind-reader. As long as he's playing pop psychologist, how about accounting for the fact that Selby's career was frustrated by the NCAA suspension and the injury? Or the fact that he wasn't playing his natural position by handling the ball in transition, but instead was turned into a jumpshooter?

"No way Selby improves as much sitting the bench in Memphis or fighting for playing time in the Developmental League as he would battling in Bill Self’s intense practices, playing high-pressure games and trying to lead a young team. "

Uh, not really. If we are honest, we have to admit that college ball is not necessarily relevant to the demands of the NBA. Kobe, KG and LeBron didn't need college (LBJ's problems have nothing to do with not going to college). Kyrie played 11 games. Think Judd Heathcote taught Magic anything? Guy Lewis was one of the biggest just-roll-out-the-balls coach in college and that didn't stop Hakeem and Clyde from becoming great players. NBA teams tonight didn't have problems drafting Euros who have never set foot on a college campus. The bottom line is that a player either has NBA ability, or he doesn't. And playing against players who have that type of ability or potential ability whether in practice or in the D-league is better preparation for the NBA than stomping on UMKC or Iowa State.

jhox 8 years, 7 months ago

Wow. First time I've seen Selby mentioned in the same breath as Kobe, KG and LeBron. I'm betting it will be the last time, as well.

For every Kobe, KG and LeBron success story there are probably 20 guys with much less talent to try to go to the league too soon and wash out. I wish Josh well but, let's be honest, he's not in the same time zone as the guys you mentioned.

Keegan absolutely got it right in saying he would have been much better off spending another year in college, getting coached. The NBA plays too many games. Practice time is limited. Bench players simply don't get a chance to develop.

If he can stay healthy, he has a chance to make the roster and stick around awhile, but there is no question he would have been better off playing another year of college ball.

Marc Frey 8 years, 7 months ago

+1 My thoughts exactly! Look at KU's bench guys in mop-up time! You can hardly believe they are any good with the turnovers and missed shots. You think an NBA scrub gets any better on the bench? D-League is about right since the Grizzlies have plenty of PGs. If Cole Aldrich spent time in the D-League, you think Selby won't?

Hank Cross 8 years, 7 months ago

I was not saying that Josh is as talented as Kobe and the others. I'm saying that college experience is irrelevant to the NBA. To wit: Kyrie Irving - 11 games at Duke, drafted No.1; Kyle Singler - 4 year starter at Duke, '10 FF MOP, drafted No. 33 (2nd round).

jhox 8 years, 7 months ago

I believe it depends on the player. Irving was NBA ready the day he graduated from high school as was LeBron, and Kobi (though Kobi spent a year on the bench in the NBA as I recall) as was KG. Irving showed up big in virtually every Duke game he played. As for Singler, he dropped much lower than he should have, but that's another story.

I admit we never saw the true Josh Selby. He was either not healthy, or not in mid season form when others were. We saw flashes of what he could be. I believe he's in a good situation in Memphis, being their highest or only draft choice from this draft.

Selby's problem is simple. He didn't perform when he was on the college stage, excuses or no excuses. One more year, had he stayed healthy and been himself, and he would have been a lottery pick with a guaranted contract. Kids just don't realize how short a time a year is, in the grand scheme of things. I was the same way at that age. He let his impatience get the best of him, and it cost him dearly. I'm sure he had his "handlers" whispering in his ear as well.

I predict he'll make the roster, and play a little, but he's definitely hurt himself in terms of initial contract money, by not going to school one more year.

KSseahawk 8 years, 6 months ago

Selby played like he was in over his head...playing too hard instead of playing easy.

Bad body language aside, HCBS gave him plenty (maybe too may) chances to succeed and he seldom came through.

If what Kimmie E said in his interview with SSJ on 810 was true about his convo w/ Selby...well, I feel bad for Selby. Who has been through Lawrence and NOT had a good time?!?! Mizzourah and KSUck fans even have a good time in Lawrence. Perhaps he just wasn't there long enough?

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 7 months ago

D-league is better preparation for the NBA than stomping on UMKC or Iowa State?!?!?!

Apparently - You're JUST NOT GETTING IT!!!!

How in the world - even with what was viewed as a better draft in '12 - could Josh, if he healed properly and worked his a$$ off NOT have elevated himself into a GUARANTEED 1st round pick next season if he'd come back?!?!?!?!

Now, he's a NON-GUARANTEED 2nd round pick on a team who he probably REALLY wishes hadn't drafted him as he'll be a 4th on the Depth Chart PG behind Conley, G.Vazquez & Ish Smith. The only thing I can see the Grizzlies doing is attempting the same thing that KU did and make him play the "2" more as their keep being the swirling rumors of them looking to deal O.J. Mayo to add another big.

They do that and then he's really just battling Tony Allen for playing time.

I do agree with others that several just before him teams would've been better fits for him.....Lakers, Clippers, Hornets & Hawks all made more sense than the Grizzlies just mere picks just before. Hornets used their pick of Josh Harrelson and sent it to the Knicks for like 2 future 2nd round picks. Hawks already have shot-blocking galore yet went and drafted Keith Benson out of Oakland....I like Benson but not a good fit for the Hawks' needs.

imajhawk60 8 years, 7 months ago

Or Josh could have come back, get hurt, play out of position, and/or not get playing time.

Josh can work hard getting paid just has he can playing college basketball. The extra time he would have been studying and going to class can now be used to work on his game - however the way Memphis is planning to use him.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

Do you REALLY believe that a healthy Josh Selby isn't going to beat out Greivous "Molasses" Vasquez and Ish "Gesundheit--no that's his name" Smith on the depth chart?

Key word being "healthy", which I think is fair game because that was the same dependency that you listed in your hypothetical situation about him returning to KU.

That's what everything boils down to for Josh: health. If he can stay healthy, he is one of the more explosive and talented players in the 2011 Draft. If not, he's a middle-of-the-pack combo guard at best.

rwhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

"Another utter garbage piece by [a] Keegan [hater], filled with so much speculation and false assumptions it's not even funny."

femmefatale 8 years, 7 months ago

I completely agree, garbage. Jacob Pullen played 4 good years and didn't get drafted at all. Memphis is a great fit for Josh, can't wait to see people eating their hateful words.

Gregor Southard 8 years, 7 months ago

Keegs nailed it. Sorry all you haters. Selby will be an "also ran." Funny that Memphis has 3 KU players that played a total of 4 years.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

"Haters." Sigh.

So now we have the Selby "haters" and the Keegan "haters" who "hate" Keegan for "hating" on Selby.

Can we agree that the term "hater" is overused and intellectually vacuous yet?

Sorry, but this was a terrible piece, regardless of your opinion of Selby.

Redlandsjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

On a positive (?) note, no one has bashed Brady in days!

Rick Arnoldy 8 years, 7 months ago

This is actually one of the few Keegan articles I agree with. Selby could have greatly improved his position if he listened to his coaching or stayed another year.

waywardJay 8 years, 7 months ago

Actually MOST of Lebron's problems have EVERYTHING to do witout going to College.....

  • bad Body Language.
  • inability to handle the clutch moment.
  • lack of definable Post moves.
  • weak sense of Self confidence ( which is made that more ironic by his completely arrogant Coveroff the court. )
  • Low Basketball IQ.
  • Dependance upon others, so much so that Wade has to hold his hand during press conferences...

Yeah< these wouldn't have been fixed at a major College university at all. even barnes can get these problem areas ironed out........ occasionally.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

But would 1 semester have made any difference? The one year rule is ridiculous...once they decide to leave, class is out. Do Europeans need to follow the same rule? I don't have any idea if some one knows the answer.

Brandon Snook 8 years, 7 months ago

Only people who are ignorant with the Selby story would think poorly upon KU from a perspective student-"athlete" point of view. Selby came in, highly touted, sat on his arse for a semester because of the NCAA, finally entered the KU games with hype and delivered, got injured and never regained his sense of belonging, left because that's what the world told him to do, and now's he's a not-fully-healed guard staring right at the D-League. Rock Chalk.

100 8 years, 7 months ago

Also he showed up injured to begin with.

It was just tough luck for Josh & unfortunately he listened to his manager. After a sophomore year at KU, he'd have a guaranteed 3 year contract & a probable lottery status.

Just the mistakes of youth mixed with an unfortunate circumstance.

Rock Chalk, Josh. You're part of our family & we support you.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

D League? No chance. If it doesn't work out in the NBA, he will make plenty of money in Europe.

Kevin Studer 8 years, 6 months ago

...or he could have done the smart thing and actually tried to become a player who CAN succeed in the NBA. Given his level of expectation, I think most would agree if he has a career in Europe, even a lucrative one, it is a major disappointment. He was supposed to be an NBA star.

Trey Hohman 8 years, 7 months ago

Great points by oxcaljayhawk. After reading his comments I instantly thought of the suddenly strange parallels between basketball & film acting; and that they might be the two best examples on how attending college might actually damage someone's full professional potential.

"College: Where real men wear merino wool turtlenecks."

FoCoCoHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

It's scary to think how bad Don Johnson could have been if he had stayed at KU another year.

REHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

The one and done rule ended up costing Josh Selby millions of dollars, at least until or if he improves his game these next 2 or 3 seasons. If he could have gone straight to the NBA while his body and young fame bristled with promise, he probably would have been a first round selection, maybe even a lottery pick.

Jeremy Bolinger 8 years, 7 months ago

Bull. Josh Selby costed himself millions. I'm sick of you allowing him to blame other people for his misfortunes. Thats why he wont amount to crap in the league. He has piss poor body language, and Self left him in games last season when he shouldnt have to give him a chance. He didnt even deserve those chances. I feel bad for Josh. Not because he lost out on millions of dollars, but because he is too young to not make decisions for himself, and because the people around him do not have his best interests.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

Ah, the old "body language" argument.

Is that you Keegan?

I'm sorry, but Self has never been the type of coach to tolerate poor team attitude from anyone he is playing big minutes, and I don't think he started this year.

"Body language" is just a euphemism. Josh was a consummate teammate while at Kansas. Anyone who says otherwise wasn't paying attention or is deluding themselves.

James Miller 8 years, 7 months ago

Selby may have NBA skills, but he is definitely not NBA ready. If he would have went to the NBA last year, he still would have been a bust. College definitley is the appropriate place for him until he shows that he can live up to his potential (obviously too late for that). If he would have come back for a sophomore campaign and played well, then he would have been back to a first round, possibly lottery status. He cost himself a lot of money by not staying in college.

I have always hated the argument that players can leave and make a lot of money on their initial contract. If they are not ready for the NBA that probably will be their last big contract. If they develop and become NBA ready prior to jumping to the league, they are more likely to stick in the league, and sign multiple large contracts.

Think about if Marcus would have jumped after his freshman year. That would have been a disaster. Now, I cannot see him not having a long prosperous career.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Even Kobe sat his first couple of years. To my knowledge he wasn't called a bust being the #3 pick although only starting 7 games his first 2 years. Lebron is a freak of nature w/his physique right out of HS. Give him a chance. It seems the same people who claim HCBS knows better than all the recruiting services forget who brought Selby to Kansas. This is not on Self or Selby or anyone. **it happens. There is no guarantee..Selby wanted to come to KU. Everyone seemed happy then.

imajhawk60 8 years, 7 months ago

Yes Josh could have become a lottery pick w/ millions of dollars; but I think Josh is happy being drafted and making thousands of dollars. People just don't get it. If your family has had to struggle to make ends meet all their lives, that's going to weigh on any child's mind.

Josh was given a chance to help his family out - of course he's going to jump at the chance.

People are calling him all kinds of names because of his draft position. He didn't want to play college ball. He didn't quit on KU. He took the best chance he had to go to play for college team - for a year. Unfortunately, it didn't work out for either Josh (as far as excelling his game) or KU.

Jeremy Bolinger 8 years, 7 months ago

People see what Thomas Robinson is doing, and they have nothing but respect. Spare me with that helping family out right away. Selby's fam is close to Carmelo Anthony's business manager. Im sure they can get by, if not do better than get by. How does anyone on here know what the Selby family financial situation is anyway? Just curious. I'm not bagging on him, and like i said, I feel bad for him. He is good enough to play in the league. But he is not ready, and wont get a chance to get ready. Its a big boy league. He is certainly not a big boy.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

Such assumptions about things you have no idea about. The one intelligent thing you said was that no one knows about his family's financial situation is. Unfortunately, you seem to take that as a reason to assume that there is no problem.

Plus, this: you think Selby's family is okay because they are friends with Carmelo's biz manager? Is that seriously your reasoning?

Even if true, how much do you think Selby and his mother enjoy being essentially freeloaders? I have a feeling--since they both sound/seem like proud individuals--that they wouldn't be able to stand it.

Lastly, if it's not clear, when you say things like "He is certainly not a big boy", you are "bagging on him".

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 7 months ago

Do you think before you post? If Selby's family received any type of financila help from Carmelo or anyone else while he is at KU, it wold constitute illegal benefits. Selby would be suspended and KU possibly penalized as well.

Jeremy Bolinger 8 years, 7 months ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Selby suspended 9 games at the beginning of the season? For accepting impermissible benefits?

yates33333 8 years, 7 months ago

I think Selby should be grateful that he was drafted. Hard to know what Memphis intends to do with him.

jhawk11523 8 years, 7 months ago

Jsvaris crittenton would get moved up in a heart beat over selby

emaw 8 years, 7 months ago

It is sad to see how the KU nation throws one of their own under the bus. Just because he didn't give you what you thought he owed to you..... doesn't mean he wasn't giving everything he had to give during his time on campus.

imajhawk60 8 years, 7 months ago

I think it's pathetic that a Wildcat has to point out the obvious to KU fans.

Good luck Josh. Make KU proud!

newtongirl 8 years, 7 months ago

And leave it to an emaw to have no logic and draw false conclusions.

Wasn't it you emaws saying all year that Selby (most of you guys know him as Shelby) wasn't all that? Now that he drafts way too early, KU nation can't say it? Admit it, when Selby announced you said, "What is he thinking?". If you didn't, you haven't been paying attention.

It seems to me that wishing that Selby did better in the draft and saying that he should've stayed another year on our dime to use our facilities and our coach to better himself for his ultimate departure his sophomore year for the NBA isn't self-serving. Would we want to see some wins along the way? Sure. So would you. But that's fair, not self-serving. In none of the previous posts about him making a bad decision have I read any words like "we", "us" or "our" in any kind of context that demands anything. It's all been about him.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

Either emaw is right or he's not. It doesn't matter what KSU fans were saying about Selby. What matters is what WE say about him, and from the likes of this board, it's not that favorable.

The mental gymnastics required to arrive at the reasoning that Selby's naysayers aren't self-serving because it's supposedly on "our" dime, facilities and coach is beyond belief. The demand that Selby stay another year--in spite of what people may try to play it off as--is COMPLETELY self-serving.

That's the only way you can marry the bitterness that seems to be prevalent in so many posts about the kid with a desire for him to stay. People wanted him to stay for the wins, but knowing that sounds completely selfish and ridiculous, they have the sense to wrap it in a coating of "for his own good".

I've said it once today and I will probably say it again--I'm ashamed to be a KU fan today after reading a large portion of these comments.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

you know who gave everything he had for his school? Pullen. THATS sad.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

not the fact that he gave it all for KSU, just that he went undrafted after he gave so much. unlike josh.

yates33333 8 years, 7 months ago

Yes. He would have had a better chance the year before but stayed thinking KSU would have a great season. Too Bad, although I still hate K-State, always will.

100 8 years, 7 months ago

I'm with E.M&woman.A.grape. (EMAWAG) on this one....

Although Selby quite obviously didn't make the correct decision for his future... He's still a Jayhawk & poured a lot of sweat on the floor through difficult personal times (including his best friend dying this year)....

One more year at Kansas & he would've had a 3 year guaranteed contract & a probable top 10 status.

We can still love him & forgive him even though he made a mistake... It's time to get behind him now & support the young man who wore Kansas on his chest, if only for a year...

"Go Josh Selby!"

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

The first time I have ever agreed with a KSU fan. You are spot on with this comment--at least in regards to some KU fans.

Some of the posts on here are downright ridiculous and unbecoming of a fanbase that often likes to tout the acronym "FOE".

I agree that Josh gave everything he had. Said all the right things. Played whatever role was handed to him by the coaching staff. Never displayed a bad attitude (unless you are like Keegan and want to whip out the 'ol "bad body language" albatross). Never made it about him.

It makes me ashamed to be a KU fan, the way Selby has been chastised and torn down. I expect it from a hack like Keegan. It's just too bad there are so many people who take his word.

Chris Bailey 8 years, 7 months ago

Get the hell off our site TROLL! I don't wander over to the fricking emaw site and check the crop status or the latest juco football player you're recruiting or the latest reject thug that you are trying to rehab to keep your dwindling football dreams alive. Why is it that all these idiots from other schools come on here and throw in they're opinion? Go support your team and see if you can find the fountain of youth to keep Synder young as he is the only coach to ever have anything that resembled a winning program. Remember KSuck is one of only 3 D1 schools to lose 600 games! I won't be alive when we hit that mark! Thanks for the dart board!

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree emaw but remember what they say about glass houses.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Dear Tom et al,

Because Selby got picked at all, he made a sound decision. Maybe he did not optimize his entry level salary, but he still made a sound decision. He took a calculated risk and, while not hitting a jack pot, did darned well for himself. Doing this is the difference between dreamers and doers.

Selby is about to be $400k to $750k/year richer in a few weeks; that's probably quite a bit more than you make as sports editor.

Further, Josh does not have to risk injury playing just for room, board, books and tuition anymore, which translates to essentially no take home pay and a chance to never make a dime.

Despite having to take a calculated risk of not being drafted as high as he would have been next season, Selby made the conservative move. His risk of making no money from the game due to injury just went to zero. His bank account just got real. Bank officers and tellers will now smile and say, "Hello, Mr. Selby," instead of ignoring him.

Money talks.

Josh settled for less now, rather than more later; that is not stupidity; that is a sound business decision for any young person from a poor back ground to make. It is called not being greedy.

Josh was not greedy. He went for the sure money. He knew Bill Self and his coaching staff all were going for the sure money. He knew he had a good chance for some. He took it. Bully for him.

Josh has established a financial foundation for himself. Now he can focus on getting better and showing his employer, and other potential employers, just how flippin' good he is on the wood. Next, he converts that performance into big dollars 1-3 years from now, while making good money in the interim.

In every business, Tom, the key is getting your foot in the door. It is better to start higher, but the key is to get in the door. Andrew Carnegie, a poor Scottish kid, started as a mere messenger, so he could access the information that was driving decisions in the industries he knew of. He got his foot in the door at an information pinch point and did okay starting lower, while he collected the information that would leverage him up later.

The NBA is a business. Once you are in, if you can do the job adequately and work hard, and be someone people like to work with, your career is then a sustainable work in progress.

Josh Selby is in the NBA. He is making money. He is on his way.

That is not failure, Tom, that is the start of success in business.

Never blame a guy for living in the real world and taking a bird in the hand.

The two birds in the bush are a calculated risk, also--maybes--a what-ifs.

Josh went for the sure thing, just like you did once, Tom.


SDSurferFan 8 years, 7 months ago

Im sure there is history i dont know but it sounds like you strongly dislike Keegan.

Pundits, people who actually make money on this subject, said he should stay. What is a better situation? 12 months from now he probably has a guaranteed 3m or probably making 30k next year? His foot was in the door already. He plays on national tv 80% of the time and he plays for Kansas.

I'm rooting for the kid and I hope he proves a lot of people wrong, but would have been better for HIM if he stayed.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago


Au contraire. I think he is one of the best university town sports editors around and he has taken print sports journalism on line in a good way, and appears to collaborate quite well with the online editors at

As you probably know, if you have surfed any similar sites, especially in California, you will see just how superior this site is to most others. And the online community is more stimulating and vigorous, as well.

And while I cannot say I like Tom Keegan, because I have never met the man, nor have I swapped emails with him, I suspect I would like him and find him a professional in his commitment to his work, were we to go out for a beer and talk about his work.

But he has accomplished what he has in no small part by embracing the interactive dimension, not running from it.

It is true that he leaves actual interactive journalism to his younger associates, like Newell, Tait, et al, probably because he is managing staff and they are not. I have no doubt that if he had the time for the online interactive role, he would be quite stimulating and imminently capable of accounting for himself well.

Regardless, the game is to inform for clicks.

Information runs two ways in interactive journalism.

Next, you exemplify one of the great misunderstandings in America today; that someone does not like someone because they disagree. The current ubiquity of this misunderstanding, probably tracks to the culture of fear and inhibition that has symptomized in the decade since 9/11 "changed everything." A constant high tide of propaganda, and its goosing of patriotism and loyalty, combined with the tightening down on constitutional and political rights during the 10 year and counting war on countries with leaders threatening to bourse oil in non-dollar currencies, has conditioned Americans not to trust anyone that disagrees with them.

Your incorrect snap judgement about my opinion of Keegs typifies the corrosive effects of what the late Michael Crichton rightly termed "the culture of fear."

If you disagree with me, you must not like me. If you do not like me, you must be my enemy. If you are my enemy, you must disagree with me. And round and round the tautology of fear goes.

If I did not like and respect Tom Keegan, I would never post on a thread attached to one of his stories.

Capice? :-)

UmbertoConforti 8 years, 7 months ago

Your buddy (slavish follower) Yates is right! But I don't think he is Italian.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Yeah..I've usually liked his articles but don't know the story behind the stories.

James Miller 8 years, 7 months ago

Sounds great. So far, his marketing team sucks, and his product is not in very high demand. If he is too make it, he better work his a$$ off this off-season and approach this next year as if it is life or death.

imajhawk60 8 years, 7 months ago

Excellent post! Josh's goal was to get drafted and play in the NBA. He's reached one goal and needs to work hard to reach the other. I'm sure he wished he went higher; but there are some who didn't get drafted. He's now in a position to take care of his family.

Arthur worked hard while at Memphis and his game has improved a lot.

Go Josh. Make KU proud.

Funhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Jaybate's post is excellent, too. "Never blame a guy for living in the real world and taking a bird in the hand." Go Josh!

Kirk 8 years, 7 months ago

The "sure thing"? Life offers nothing of the kind.

But a guaranteed contract would have been close.

ahpersecoachingexperience 8 years, 7 months ago

Josh didn't make himself 400k he lost 3.6 million.

And pure speculation on my part but I don't see him being fiscally sound with what little/if any money he gets.

Hank Cross 8 years, 7 months ago

Standing and applauding Jaybate excellent post! We're here because we love college BB and sometimes forget that for some of the players who have the ability to play in the NBA, college BB is nothing but a potential roadblock to that dream. The only real value college BB adds to these players is media exposure which can translate into better endorsement contracts later.

Look at it this way, if the NBA didn't allow players to enter the league until after their junior season, would it not make more sense for 5 and 4 star recruits to try their hand in Overseas leagues (assuming that there wouldn't be nasty buy-out clauses) rather than go to college? They can get paid, meet a whole different continent of women, etc.

Or they can go to college and worry about a career jeopardizing injury, or being ruled ineligible because of a free tatto, or having to fake interest in obtaining a degree. And do it for free while their family struggles financially.

I'm surprised that more kids haven't gone the route of that kid from SD who went to Japan.

Joe Ross 8 years, 7 months ago

This comment is stupid. Selby's draft WAS a failure, and your attempt to paint it otherwise is dumb. Just dumb.

waywardJay 8 years, 7 months ago

Because we lack the moral superiority of you Joe Ross. You need to really look at your choosing of words, Sir. One might get the Idea you think you are better than other people.

Remember when discussing art it is not only YOUR opinion that matters..... But you don't remember Subjectively criticizing Jaybate's Paint Shop renderings of Others photos....

Way to keep those opinions objective, Joe Ross.

Joe Ross 8 years, 7 months ago

This is a sports site. I needn't either keep my opinions objective nor mind my choice of words. That is all.

Chris Bailey 8 years, 7 months ago

Hey man you may be right in a normal year but with the lockout looming he may not get paid until January! Making this decision that much worse as now he is relying on a agent for money. That said if I had his talent who knows what I'd do the adult in me hopes I would make the right decision and stay in school.

KansasComet 8 years, 6 months ago

Excellent points Jaybate! I could not agree with you more. This should be a celebration of this young man getting selected to the National Basketball Association. Josh was recruited to come to Kansas. The opportunity to go to the NBA out of high school was not there for him. He did not go overseas, play for pay for one year, and come back for the draft. He came to Kansas, got suspended for receiving money from someone he knew. Not a booster, or a car dealership (sorry Ohio State). He served a nine game suspension, had several good games, (leading the team in scoring is not everything) tried to fit in, got injured, tried to play through it, gave an interview that this website used for an article describing how rough he had it growing up, decided to turn pro to provide for his family and realize his dream and all he gets from a lot of KU fans is negative comments---unbelievable! Makes me ashamed. I wish this young man nothing but the best and if I ever pass him on the street, I will tell him how happy and proud I am of him and thanks for coming to KU and hitting that winning 3 pointer against USC. To hold something against this young man for leaving is crazy. I thought Kansas Basketball was bigger than one player. New players come and go, hell Darnell Valentine has been gone for 30 years! Life goes on, time to move on just like Josh Selby did!

Dyrk Dugan 8 years, 7 months ago

i predicted long ago he wouldn't be a 1st round pick.....he has a long way to go make it in the league.

one of these days, these types of connected kids will say no to the yes men around them, and do what's in their own best interest. if he had "body" issues, then man up, play an intense 35 game college schedule, avg. 16 and 7, and show the world what you can do.

to rely on the "upside" all of your life is just not some point, you have to produce. he could have had a great soph. campaign at Kansas, and really set himself up nicely...and now, all for naught. Prove me wrong Josh, ...but right now, i just don't see it.

Ludwig Supraphonic 8 years, 7 months ago

Sidling up to Steve Fisher cements his credibility for me.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Gosh fellas. Maybe we ought to listen to Mike Welch. (I really thought he was the janitor at my local Wal-Mart, but I was confused. The janitor is a hard-working, thoughtful and intelligent man.) He seems to be somewhat of an expert on classless, with a headline like " Bill Self Says F-U to Josh Selby One More Time", and a statement like " That said, for Bill Self and KU to give Josh Selby one last F-U moving into the NBA Draft is, in a word, classless."

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Man, do I feel stupid. My apologies to Mike Welch. I thought he was implying something malevolent (it basically means "bad", emaw) when he referred to the F-U thing. It finally dawned on me that it could only mean Coach Self told Josh " Farewell, Underclassman ". I have to start giving my fellow man the benefit of the doubt.

Gregor Southard 8 years, 7 months ago

that "blog" is a joke. I feel bad that I wasted 14 seconds of my life reading it

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree about he blogger but still hate that CBS hosts it.

waywardJay 8 years, 7 months ago

There are some that say you can grow up in a household that espouses one Politic and only one view. You can carry that view wit you everywhere you go, to the bathroom, the boardroom, and Dinner table. And Once you have one bad experience, you turn it on it's head and start Cauterizing that wound like it was BIll O'reilly trying hang up on an intern, or like Glenn Beck decrying the horrors of American health Care......

Some people can look in the mirror, and Objectively convince themselves they are speaking God's great word all the while Reading Anton Levay.

He may be right about Self. He may be more full of Manure than Jack Abramoff at a Rodeo.

But he appears to be proof of his words..... The University IS on a HILL and all the S*** does roll off.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

That's Mr. O'Reilly to you sir! But I get what you mean. Kinda like getting a Weinner when you ordered a steak. Off subject..during my 5 year tenure at KU, there was a fantastic steakhouse on the way out of Lawrence..State Hgwy 10 (?), it was next to the Boy's Club i think. They used to promote a 64oz steak for free..if you could eat it. Is it still there? And I will under no circumstances mention anything political on these boards again.

Robert Brock 8 years, 7 months ago

Well, there is always overseas ball. Maybe he will play in Greece or Libya or Yemen or Qatar.

emaw 8 years, 7 months ago

Wally Judge was a cancer.....look at what happened as soon as he left. The cats finally started playing and winning. Nobody on the team trusted him and he was a jealous little rat. If you knew anything about the situation you would understand why we were glad he left town. I'm not sure who you talked to that was looking for a new coach.....and I like to remember the a@@ whooping we put on you in our place....that was a fun game.

Woody Cragg 8 years, 7 months ago

Once every 5-10 yrs is all you can muster? You best find Rolando & Hartman if you want to talk smack cause you really ain't got JACK!

squawkhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, just like KU football has JACK! Stop embarrassing KU with your idiotic and pathetic posts.

emaw 8 years, 7 months ago

All I know is that we won the last meeting.

Ludwig Supraphonic 8 years, 7 months ago

Very objective self-awareness. That is all you know.

waywardJay 8 years, 7 months ago

Yeah Your University made a DVD Commemorating it like it was the first time it had happened in say 30 some years....

Oh Right. It was the second time ;)

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

I would give Wally Judge a shot at KU in a minute.

Each coach is unique and the more explosively emotional a coach is, as Frank Martin is, the more likely it is a player will not respond well to him.

Martin is a wonderful coach for a certain kind of player.

Self is wonderful coach for another kind of player.

Fortunately, Self's kind of players can win 83% of their games over the long haul, and one ring in seven years, where as, Martin's kind of players, well, why should I kick you, a fellow Kansan, when you are already down? :-)

My point here is: Wally Judge went south at KSU, but he has a lot of talent.

If he's not a junky, or physical danger to his teammates, some coach can probably reach inside and pull him out of his dysfunctional ways, if in fact he really has any.

Bottom line, Martin missed his shot with Judge and now it is someone else's turn.

There are some hopeless cases, but not many. Its just that time waits for no man, and Wally Judge has put himself in the postion of being less valuable to any program, because he has to sit out and because he has to live down his rep for being hard to coach.

But this happens again and again in college basketball and in life.

Human beings make mistakes. Many learn from them. If they have a lot of talent, it is worth helping them. And even if they don't have a lot of talent, helping is the right thing to do. Some of the biggest jerks, become some of the best human beings, once they 12-step their ways into being recovering jerks.

Rock Chalk!

And Stomp the Pussies! :-)

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Damn right! Can already see the headlines: 'Cats Judged and Found Wanting'

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

didnt they immediately release a DVD of that victory? must have been an important one for wildcat history to win that big regular season game..... hmmm

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, I sometimes get tired of looking at our National Championship and Conference Championship Banners. It makes my neck hurt to look up there at all of them. I very much enjoy going to Bramlage and seeing that ONE banner that says: REMEMBER THAT TIME WE BEAT KU?

kesmithstl1 8 years, 7 months ago

Keegan, thanks for pointing out that Josh Harrelson was picked before Selby!! Harrelson is destined to be................. selling cars in Lexington in 2 years.

waywardJay 8 years, 7 months ago

Naw... Enes Kanter has been doing that for the better part of the year anyway... Certainly no one would buy from Harrelson when Doron Lamb is working the same lot :)

kesmithstl1 8 years, 7 months ago

ha! I believe the name of the dealership is World Wide Wes Automall!

justinryman 8 years, 7 months ago

I wish I could get paid to be hating on the kids who actually give me a job. Way to go LJW for printing Keegans worthless article knocking down a KU player an a site that is addressed ""

The writer, paper and web site should all be embarrassed and they should all have to apologize to Josh Selby for their low blow comments and writings about him.

Once a Jayhawk always a Jayhawk. Jayhawk for life!

Kirk 8 years, 7 months ago

Honest criticism doesn't equal "hating." People who can't tell the difference should root for pro teams instead of...colleges.

justinryman 8 years, 7 months ago

There is a fine line with "honest criticism" and "hating". As much as Keegs has pushed his editorial point on how Selby was over hyped coming out of high school, flopped at KU, should have stayed and so on's has reached a point were it looks almost obsessive on his part.

I am a college fan, always have been always will be, and I am a Kansas fan above all else. Nope didn't attend school there, nope didn't grow up in Kansas either, but that doesn't make me any less of a fan than anyone else.

Just as Tom has his opinions on what he writes, I have that same First Amendment right as he does and so do you. So therefore I voiced my opinion about his and so on. It doesn't make his any less right or wrong, nor is mine with your comments.

That's whats so good and so bad about the internet, everybody that can type has a voice.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Not saying you are right or wrong but w/around 200 comments, there are a lot of reporters who would be more than happy for those numbers.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 7 months ago

Just talking numbers, starting with 2004, Kansas has had 12 players drafted by the NBA [8 firsts and 4 seconds].

That can't hurt from a recruiting standpoint, especially when you're talking: 4 power forwards 3 wings 2 shooting guards 1 point guard 2 centers

All positions are covered.

Also, considering the number of eligible college players in America plus the rest of the players around the world, maybe being in the Top Fifty is not so horrible.

FreddyinLA 8 years, 7 months ago

Four lottery picks and 6 total in the last 2 years. In addition, T-Rob will be a lottery pick next year.

How many did NCI and VCU have during that same period?

lahawkfan 8 years, 7 months ago

I think you guys are missing one HUGE aspect. Forget production, athleticism, hype, etc. Selby has all of that, but what he lacks is mental toughness. In the league you need mental toughness or you will crack under the pressure. Selby wont be able to "out athlete" players in the league and we saw this year what adversity will do to the young man. When things didn't go the kids way he pouted and quit on the team. The kid will get one maybe two years to show a change in his maturity and mental toughness. If he can't change the kid will be playing in Europe or out of basketball altogether.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

I'm officially adding "Dispel the Myth that Josh Selby Quit and Pouted" to my bucket list.

It infuriates me that this nebulous (and baseless) criticism of Selby has become one of the primary talking points in the campaign to tear him down.

Selby struggled to perform on the court, for whatever reason.

He did not, at any time "quit" on the team or "pout". He played the role(s) that were handed to him, he never badmouthed the team publicly, and never (in spite of Keegan's continued insistence) had "bad body language".

justanotherfan 8 years, 7 months ago

I am confused as to how Josh Selby missed his shot. He is a Memphis Grizzly right now, closer to the NBA than he has ever been. The concerns that NBA GMs have about him are health concerns, not skill concerns. That's telling in itself.

If his body doesn't hold up, regardless of whether he had stayed at KU or not, he won't make it in the NBA. If his body does hold up, he should have a fairly long, successful career. That's not a mistake. Josh Selby now has until September to get his body right. He can work with Memphis team doctors, chiropractors, etc. to make sure that his body is sound.

Josh Selby made it. If Keegan can't see that, it's only because he doesn't want to.

Jason Montgomery 8 years, 7 months ago

"Made it"??? as a second round pick with no guaranteed contract? I wouldn't call making $30K in the D league making it. And that assumes there even is a season next year. Until the lockout is over he wont be able to have any contact with team doctors, trainers, etc. There's always Qatar.

tis4tim 8 years, 7 months ago


You absolutely nailed it with your second paragraph. Talent was never the question regarding Selby because he has it in spades. So, like you, I don't understand the argument that another year (or more) at KU would have made his NBA prospects any better when Keegan, citing NBA sources, claims health issues were the determining factor in his slipping on draft boards. More court time at the college level would be the worst avenue to pursue if his long-term health were a question mark or if it had the potential to derail his draft hopes. Insurance policies are always easier to get before something goes wrong. If health is indeed a concern, then Josh was right to declare when he did.

FreddyinLA 8 years, 7 months ago

Keegs, please write me an article explaining how DeShawn Stevenson committed career suicide by not playing for Ole Roy back in the day. Talent, hard work, and relentless determination are more important in sticking in the Association, not where you were drafted.

As I’ve stated in the past, Selby needs reps at PG, something Self has handed over to TT for some reason I will never understand.

ahpersecoachingexperience 8 years, 7 months ago

I'm sure the article would start: Deshawn Stevenson selected in the FIRST round by the Utah Jazz. . .

KU_alum_2001 8 years, 7 months ago

In response to some of the various posts above, I think it's true that Selby (the "#1-rated high school player" a year ago) being drafted where he did does hurt KU. I said it two days ago. It doesn't really matter what all the circumstances are. For future recruits, these things get summarized down into charts and tables... and when some 2013 high school grad sees that the #1-ranked high school player went to KU and was drafted 49th, it won't look good, especially when coaches from other schools start chattering in his ear (here's a finger to you, Calipari).

Second, in response to all the Selby haters out there, I think there's one really interesting thing in this article. According to sources (whomever that may be), Selby still hasn't healed. I think this is very important to pay attention to. This was originally classified as a 6-week stress fracture, yet here he is in late-June supposedly still suffering from the injury. I have two things to say about this.

1) it means that Josh Selby, regardless of quality of play, was out there, suited up, ready and willing to play, at the end of the season when he clearly should have been resting. Yes, athletes get injured and have to work through that but if this was truly just a stress fracture and he's still suffering from it nearly three months after the tourney, that's not a good sign. So for all of you who rip Selby for his performance and not living up to the hype, think about this injury (not to mention his initial 9-game suspension). This guy wasn't faking it. He's obviously struggled with his foot even in the most critical juncture of his career (trying out for teams).

2) if his foot truly hasn't healed, then there's no way to know for sure that he ever would have been the same or a huge contribution to the team had he returned for his sophomore year. For all we know, he might have been stuck recovering for the next 6 months, only to arrive late again, use up a scholarship (which didn't seem so abundant at the time), and possibly throw off team chemistry.

Selby clearly could have been more, and I have no doubt that he has the talent to be more but he got dealt a really bad hand and because he didn't deliver on what we expected, we turned on him. Not fair at all.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Great take!

I agree with your description of the rigors of the NBA and think it is good that you made it so clear for any youngsters surfing here. Men play games quite differently. They don't take prisoners, unless they are ordered to.

But I disagree with 2 and 3, and think, since his plan was to go pro all along, he stuck with his plan (which shows gumption and stick-to-it-iveness) and did exactly what he needed to do after the season to make his plan happen (and he succeeded in getting picked), so from my POV 4 and 5 are not mistakes at all (and recall Self said he was informed and cool with Josh in Vegas).

Still, you made your case very well. It almost changed my mind. Almost. :-)

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Lol - drgnslayr, when jaybate says almost TWICE, I think you really did change his mind !!

KU_alum_2001 8 years, 7 months ago

  1. You may be right about the weight but he's certainly not the first guy we've seen do this (here's look at you, Sherron).

  2. He never really had a chance to learn Self-ball. The guy misses 9 games to start the season. He then comes off the bench for the next two, followed by 11 straight starts. During that time, he averages 12 points (after not having played a game in nearly a year) on 43% shooting (from the field and 3-pt land) with 3 assists/game.

This is followed by his injury whereby he misses 3 games and never again sees the starting lineup. So you tell me how it is you can't attribute some (a lot) of this to his injury?

  1. He choked when it counted? My God, man, the entire team choked. Self choked. Reed and Morningstar (seniors!!!) shot a combined 2-16 from the field.

Selby played 15 minutes, essentially the most minutes he'd seen the entire month of March. You must be kidding me if you think that he, a freshman who hadn't started a game in two months, blew it in his 15 minutes of play.

  1. Yes, his not returning to KU was a very childish move and I think it was this more than anything that upset KU fans. But you know, he was 19 and he clearly didn't feel the love of the fans (shocking, I know). Even the Morris twins appeared at times to lash out at KU fans after some turned on them following their mid-season ejections. Even now, long after Selby is gone, fans still can't seem to bash him enough. Had he stayed, we'd all love him. This is sports in 2011. Sports and loyalty has become about "what have you done for me lately?" so I don't really blame Selby. I think he should have stuck around another year for his own good but he certainly didn't owe it to anyone, including Self. He was a one-and-done from the beginning and we all knew this.

  2. The guy was trying out for scouts. What's he supposed to say? "Yeah, my foot is definitely still bothering me. I'm just not the same these days." Seriously, dragonslayer? Furthermore, most of the hype around Selby during his workouts didn't come Selby. Then again, I'm not a Twitter pal of his so maybe you know something I don't. The people praising Selby were the scouts who saw him at the time so don't act like Selby is his own public relations firm, or that even if he was, that would buy him air time.

And don't go giving the twins too much cred while bashing Selby. That "down to earth" mentality that you speak of was only demonstrated to you (a spectator) by what they showed in the game. I never read any articles suggesting that they were the hardest working guys on the team. They regularly got called for unnecessary technicals during the season... as the leaders of the team. Yes, they were the stars but scoring points and grabbing boards doesn't in itself make you down to earth. I'm sure Cleveland fans felt that way about Lebron until the day he bailed.

jayhawktalk 8 years, 7 months ago

One point of contention - there were numerous articles about how hard the twins worked during the off seasons, and the results speak for themselves. They didn't improve so dramatically by taking the summers off.

If the twins have warts, a lack of work ethic does not appear to be one of them. No need to drag them down while defending Josh.

KU_alum_2001 8 years, 7 months ago

I didn't say they did NOT have work ethic. Let's not turn my lack of praise into berating. I simply said that I don't ever recall seeing articles that stressed that these guys were true leaders when it came to their work ethic. I'm not bashing the Twins at all. I'm simply saying that praising them for being such hard-working, down-to-earth guy might be more due to their stats than anything, obviously a lot of which is due to natural ability.

You always heard Reed's name when it came to work ethic. I'm just saying that I don't recall hearing the Twins names that often when it came to the same thing. That does not imply that I'm saying they were lazy.

KU_alum_2001 8 years, 7 months ago

Again, I think a lot of this unfounded, unfair criticism of Selby because he didn't meet our expectations in his shortened, injury-prone freshman season.

Oh yeah, and as for NBA players playing through injuries, you must be kidding me. The NBA is the closest thing to Euro soccer. Guys collapse from fouls like they're being tasered. They miss huge chunks of seasons because of injuries (Oden, Roy, Lafrentz, Gooden, Ming, O'Neal, Bynum, etc). Not everyone is Michael Jordan who plays through anything. I think you're fooling yourself if you think the NBA is as tough as the MMA-perception you seem to have for it.

KU_alum_2001 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree with your points. My only thing is that injuries are an exception when it comes to sports. That's about the only thing that is.

I don't think he needed fans to put less pressure on him. I think he simply needed them to understand that "perhaps" we never saw him at his full ability once he got injured. Again, those first 13 games he played in, he definitely demonstrated what he was capable of. It wasn't until he was injured that he completely fell off.

To your point, that injury in itself is exactly why he should have stayed another year. Again, though (and I see your point), at that point, I think he simply felt shafted by the fan base and had no desire to stay.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

"I venture to guess that his immature actions were also viewed negatively by the league"

You can't be serious. The NBA is fraught with boys-in-men's-clothing. Guys who can dribble and dunk a basketball, but have the maturity of a 16-year old.

I'm not say that excuses Josh from being immature, but to say that the league backed off of him based on the "immaturity" of leaving Kansas after one year because of whatever reason is pretty far out there.

DeMarcus Cousins was the #5 overall pick last year, and he's about as immature a head-case as they come. So I have a hard time believing that, not only would Selby fall based on "immaturity", but that NBA GMs would extrapolate said immaturity from him leaving Lawrence and not returning after the final game of his freshman year.

That's pretty small potatoes in the gamut of immature actions.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

Lot of good points in here, but pinning the VCU loss on Selby is garbage.

KansasComet 8 years, 6 months ago

I was cool with what you were saying until you said he choked against VCU. What game did you watch? He only played 15 minutes. He tried his best and came up short. Morningstar on the other hand played well over 30 minutes and didn't do squat. And no to anyone saying that I am bashing Morningstar, I love the kid and was glad he played for KU. He had a horrible game for someone playing 30 minutes. I am not going to sit back and let someone get away with the comment that Josh Selby chocked against VCU. There were several players that had bad games and we lost by 10. Robinson barely played 5+ minutes due to foul trouble. Little didn't get going much and Johnson did not have a good game either. I was proud of Reed, but he did not have a good game either, but gave great effort. We lost as a team, just like we win as a team. For you to sit back and say Selby may have cost us a National Championship? Come on, get real. Enough aleady. I am on vacation touring some great islands in Greece, went to Spain first and that was nice as well. Don't like to rant like that, but that was not cool! Josh tried like everyone else, I cannot say that he choked. We lost, every year over 60 teams think they are going to win the title and every year over 60 teams are disappointed!

ahpersecoachingexperience 8 years, 7 months ago

Or in a "CYA" move HCBS floats the rumor to the press that he still is not healthy. Although this "stress reaction" is taking longer to heal than most total knee reconstructions!

Dirk Medema 8 years, 7 months ago

There is this notion in the college realm (of journo's and fans) that players can develop more by staying in college because there is a focus on games and PT. Development doesn't happen in games. It is just revealed in games.

Develop as a player happens in practice, and the NCAA limits the amount of time a player can practice with coaches. The NBA has no limit on the amount of time a player can spend with coaches. These are not my observations, but rather the observations of NBA GM's.

The NBA also makes no other requirements of a players time, like attending class. That means that much more time to work on your game without the coaches as well. To his credit, Selby has shown the willingness to take care of his personal responsibilities (class) well ahead of time, and make the extra effort to develop his game (LV in April/May). This along with his play in between the suspension and injury tell me he has a great chance of playing well in the NBA, and I'm still cheering for him.

It also helps that he has continued to speak reasonably about his time at KU, inspite of it not working out nearly as well as anyone had hoped. It's unfortunate that others can only focus on the negative.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

dagger108, You make some good points here, but at the ages of 17/18 to 21/22, development takes places in a wide variety of ways. These kids are not only trying to develop their basketball IQ, but also their social and physical attributes.

I can't say that there have never been, or will never be, players that are ready for the NBA straight out of High School, or after one year of college, but they are exceedingly rare. Almost all of these kids ( just because most of them are big, fast, strong and athletic doesn't mean that they are men) would GREATLY benefit from at least three years of college, preferably four. And their respective schools would benefit as well. As a rule, the teams that do well (during the season, and in the tournament) generally have a lot of juniors and seniors on the roster.

WilburNether 8 years, 7 months ago

Mr. Keegan, thank you for the reality check. A sense of reality is sorely missing from the rantings of the idiot fanbois here.

waywardJay 8 years, 7 months ago

Keegan's Fan club just found it's first fanboi.

LeBo 8 years, 7 months ago

Thanks for coming to KU, thanks for leaving KU. (JOSH) You said that you weren't happy here.

Dave Cook 8 years, 7 months ago

I think those who are defending Josh Selby going to the NBA now need to realize, he had WAY more potential to be a great super start.. We all saw this and it didn't take a rocket scientist to see that 1 more year at KU under Bill Self would have made his life much easier and more fruitful when got to the NBA.. so yes, I laugh myself because he listen to those idiots around him and thought he was ready..well,.. let me be the first of many to say #FAIL buddy... This is not to say he'll never make it...but he alone made the decision to make his journey much much harder..

keith horinek 8 years, 7 months ago

If you crunch the numbers on selby, he made a huge mistake. He MIGHT make $700K for his two year contract if he negotiates well. (mario chalmers made $847K per year after going in the second round). two years at $700 is $1.4M total for the two year contract he has to sign. If he had waited one more year and developed more talents at KU and gone in the first round, he might have garnered $1.2M per year or more for the two year contract, or $2.4M total. going this year cost him approx. $1M over the next two years. very poor decision on his part.

KU_alum_2001 8 years, 7 months ago

Your ability to see into the future is a very fortunate gift. You should use it for self-wealth.

a) Next year's draft will be twice as talented as this years so "if" Selby didn't improve on his game, he'd probably go undrafted next year, AND he'd be a year older. And even if he did improve on his game, he still might not improve his position materially given how much talent (Sullinger, Perry, Jones, Robinson, Barnes, Henson, Zeller, Plumlee, and all the top-rated prospects coming in) postponed their entry into the NBA til next year.

b) We have no idea how much he truly would have improved his game. Perhaps this injury is a game-changer. Perhaps he's not as good as everyone thought. Perhaps he gets another injury. Perhaps one of a thousand other possibilities happens.

I agree that the odds are that he would have improved. Having said that, I don't think for one second any of us has the ability to quantify in salary terms, especially after the lock-out and the changes that may occur, what the true opportunity cost is of Selby leaving.

jayhawktalk 8 years, 7 months ago

"b) We have no idea how much he truly would have improved his game. Perhaps this injury is a game-changer. Perhaps he's not as good as everyone thought. Perhaps he gets another injury. Perhaps one of a thousand other possibilities happens."

In my mind, that's the single biggest reason Josh may have made the right choice in declaring - what if he stayed and face-flopped, again, for whatever reason(s)?

I said it long ago, but will say again, though I wish Josh well, he proved through the way he departed that his head and heart were elsewhere. Fair enough, but, if he had come back next year, dude would not have passed the ball. Period. Being "forced" to "suffer" another year in college, he would have been all about increasing his draft status at all costs, AND Self would have been forced to play him (as he had to last year) because you just cannot sign the #1 overall recruit and then let them languish on the bench; if you think we may be facing recruiting challenges now, can you imagine...?

Josh's decision to declare this year was in the best interest of both Josh and KU. I completely understand the arguments to the contrary, but no one will ever convince me that both parties are not the better for it.

RockChalk26 8 years, 7 months ago

Glad to see the Big 12 was well represented in the draft this year. There has been a lot of talk lately about how tough it is in the Big East conference, but they only had 3 players drafted. I hope the media starts giving some credit to the Big 12.

yates33333 8 years, 7 months ago

Unfortunately, they already are by saying how weak this year's crop was. If you expect eastern pundits to evaluate leagues honestly, forget it.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

difference between the morris gents and josh selby? work ethic. Those kids did so much work during the off-season, I was proud. Selby seemed content to rely on his talent and coast along, which I'm sure worked for him in high-school ball...

a good article, keegan.

ahpersecoachingexperience 8 years, 7 months ago

Worst case:

Dude doesn't make the league and has to go to Spain or Greece and play a game he loves for a couple hundred grand a year. I'd take it!

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

assuming spain and greece still have an functioning economy? :-p

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

"Eating Crow about When Josh Would Be Drafted, but Not Yet Conceding Josh Was an Overhyped Flop:"

I would like to eat some crow about Josh Selby.

Well, I wouldn't like to, but crow prepared and eaten correctly has nutritional value that builds character. :-)

I really thought he would go higher and I really thought the Knicks would trade down to pick up Josh and another player, as part of that trade, since the Knicks only had one pick, since Melo is his mentor, and since Melo's biz manager (Josh's reputed sugar daddy) might have packaged the two players together for a small sports marketing bonanza.

But I was wrrrrr...wrrrrrr...okay, let me try that again....I...was...wrrrr...wrrr....I was wrong! :-)

They picked him low in the second round.

Since the GMs have seen him play in work outs and turned up their collective noses at him, something has to be wrong with him.

The conventional thread rat wisdom here seems to be Josh is just no good, never was, came overhyped and got exposed.

The trouble with the conventional wisdom is that Bill Self, a pretty good judge of basketball talent, was very confident that Josh would be one of the very good players in the league last season, even as late as early last season.

Bill Self was so bullish on Josh that he sat Brady Morningstar without hesitation and started Josh, even though Josh had been injured in the off season, been out on NCAA suspension for the first 8 games and even though Morningstar was an experienced, proven defender with a 40% trey.

Bill Self did not hesitate. He started Josh and Josh promptly played brilliantly in his first start.

The only think Self did not do was start Josh at PG, where most expected he would play and start.

The move to the 3 was understandable in part because Josh was up front about saying he was an OAD no matter what.

Self made a pragmatic decision about what would be best for the KU program.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

If he had to invest in developing a D1 PG, he would invest in Tyshawn and Elijah, who were willing to come back.

And because Josh was such a super athlete, and so aggressive, he could play the 3, and still do all the things he was capable of doing, which would get him and Tyshawn at the floor at the same time, plus not leave KU the following season with out a proven PG.

But then Josh's play dipped a little. His TOs edge up and his scoring edged down. It happened around the time of the TRob family tragedy. And overshadowed in the TRob tragedy was Josh's loss of a close child hood buddy to a violent death. It was mentioned and then more or less lost sight of in the greater drama of TRob's loss, and the team rallying around TRob--the whole FOE thing.

And then there was the injury. It has never been clear to me exactly when it happened. Was it in practice, or in a game? What was the date? Even the approximate date?

And Josh's problems growing as Brady entered the Father and Mother of All Slumps.

And for awhile, Josh's injury, and Brady's slump, opened the door for Travis and Mario Little to see some more minutes.

But then Travis wrecked his ankle.

And then Brady started coming out of the slump and Josh seemed to drag his feet about coming back from stress reaction, so Little saw more minutes.

But here is the thing: even with a boot on his foot, even with the TOs, even with Brady coming out of his slump, even with Mario Little coming on a little, Bill Self thought so much of Josh Selby's abilities that he played him about 15-20 minutes per game even with a flipping boot on his foot.

I am left with only one probable and reasonable inference: Bill Self thought Josh Selby was one heckuva basketball player.

And even after the season was over and Josh split, Self said, "Josh is a pro type guard."

Self did not say, "I don't want that kid around any more." He did not say Josh had lost a lot because of injury. He did not say Josh is all about Josh. He just said, "Josh just needs a lot of reps." And by that he meant to be a polished pro type player.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

So: why didn't the pros see what Self saw? Why did they view him as such a big risk?

I can't answer that.

And I haven't read any credible explanations either.

Now, a lot of thread rats are also saying Josh was selfish, Josh was all about Josh.

But stuck in my mind are three things that refute that judgement of Josh.

  1. He happily played out of position for Self.

  2. He eventually played on an injury that he could easily have stopped after. He played on an injury that in the past had shelved Withey for a season, and that Cole Aldrich had to sit awhile with, too, before returning to never play consistently at his prior levels either.

  3. There is a Nick-pic that I paint-o-graphed of Josh embracing Brady Morningstar on, if I recall correctly, senior night (or day). It was an incredible picture of comaraderie and love among two teammates who had been forced by chance to have to compete with each other head to head for PT. I will always remember this picture, because I think it was one of the great sports photos I have ever seen, especially if one understands the context.

So: for these three reasons, I don't believe Josh was all about Josh, while he was at KU.

All of which leaves me wondering how Kyrie Irving, and Brandon Knight, guys the same size as Josh, but without as much physical aggressiveness as he possesses, get all the love and trust of NBA GMs, when NBA GMs are known for drafting on ceiling, and not on performance.

We read it again and again. The NBA drafts on ceiling. The NBA drafts based on potential. The NBA doesn't draft based on what you have done. If you've got the physical build and the talent to be good in the NBA, that's what really gets them juiced.

Well, I still say Josh Selby has a ton of talent. I still say that healthy I would rather have him than either Kyrie Irving, or Brandon Knight.

All the way until Josh played at KU, most every ranking put Josh at the top of the list.

Something is going on with Josh Selby and it does not seem to be explained by a lack of ability, or too much selfishness and ego.

I can't explain what is going on, but something is going on that we are not yet privy to.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

A superb explanation/rundown of the Selby Situation.

The only thing I can think of is a cocktail of GMs being wary of his injury-proneness (injured when he arrived on campus, injured midway through a 30-game season, injured again during the workout phase of the offseason leading up to the Draft) along with a sudden gun-shyness to pull the trigger on guys based on pure potential and physical chops.

And viola, you have the perfect storm.

Plus, it cannot be discounted that, in spite of all he had going for him with the Knicks organization, they are still the Knicks and are still run by Donnie Walsh. The fact that their backup plan to Josh Selby was Iman Shumpert speaks volumes in my opinion.

I'm just glad there is someone besides myself attempting to dispel these ridiculous notions that Josh's problem was his ego and his lack of team-friendly attitude. If there is anything Josh wasn't, it's a team "cancer".

I'm also glad there's someone else who thinks the deck on Josh Selby and the NBA is missing a few key cards. The reason I was so adamant (as were you) in the days/weeks leading up to the draft that he would go in the 1st round and that it was foolish to think otherwise was because, having watched the NBA for 25 years or so and followed the last 10 drafts, I have seen the way GMs and scouts think. They all want to find Michael Jordan or Lebron James. They never take a guy who stayed 4 years at a "mid-major" school and put up decent numbers over a guy who was purported to be good enough to hit the League right out of college. But in this case they did.

Guys who stay 4 years at Hofstra (like one PG that went ahead of Selby) or Cleveland State (like another PG that went ahead of Selby) stay 4 years because they HAVE to stay 4 years, just like they HAD to go to Cleveland State instead of KU, UK, UNC, Duke, etc... It's crazy to me that GMs decided, in one of the weakest drafts of the last 10 years, to cease valuing "ceiling", as you put it. If there was ever a draft to take a flier on a guy who has all the physical tools, this is it.

And I can't buy the "GMs realized he's a bust in his first year at KU" argument, because if you follow the NBA, you understand that GMs never realize that. How else do guys like Eddy Curry and Kwame Brown still get multi-million dollar contracts? The fact that Sebastian Telfair is going on an 8 year career is proof that NBA GMs almost never truly write off guys as highly-touted as Selby (and Telfair was) as "busts". There's always a GM who thinks HE has the right situation for Uber-talented Guard X to succeed.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

From ESPN's Chad Ford and his post-Draft team grades (this is from the Memphis Grizzlies grade):

"Analysis: I have no idea whether Selby will pan out. But at No. 49, the Grizzlies drafted a player with lottery talent.

A medical red flag concerning a swollen knee and a skipped MRI were partly to blame for Selby's drop. But teams were more worried about his character and his poor season at Kansas. Still, when you watch his game film from college or watch him work out, you see that he has the potential to be special.

That late in the draft, the Grizzlies risked nothing and had everything to gain -- and maybe Selby follows in the footsteps of other young, talented second-rounders like Monta Ellis, Lou Williams and Gilbert Arenas. Selby may never get it together, but he was worth a shot here."

Here is the link to the article, but it's an Insider article, be forewarned:

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 7 months ago

Selby was on 610 AM this afternoon and he inidcated that he is fully healed. He also said that he did have an MRI in Miami and he had to skip the one at Chicago because he had a plan to catch. The injury story sounds a lot like the bogus "kidney problem" that dropped Arthur to a draft position lower than anticipated. Funny thing...they both ended up at Memphis.

Andrew Dunlap 8 years, 7 months ago

everything worked out for Selby and KU. We should be glad that he left the program early. He was not suited to be a student athlete and we wouldn't have benefited from another year of him being in the program. The NBA vetting process worked and now Selby needs to get his act together. Isn't that a good education?

irvan moore 8 years, 7 months ago

i think we are all forgetting the upside for Josh, he still has potential.

ku_foaf 8 years, 7 months ago

I wish Josh success. If he really still has foot problems, it's a shame for him that he didn't stay at KU, where he could have been treated at no real cost and be allowed to heal.

WisconsinJayhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Keegan says: "Yet, the silly rule set in place by the NBA allows colleges to be used by professional basketball for a year to test and market the future talent gives Selby the chance to leave college basketball without leaving or taking anything from it."

Geez, I hate Keegan... you don't think the schools also "use" the players, including the one-and-done-ers? No pay for the player but big revenues and publicity for the school? Poor college basketball powerhouses, "used" by extrmely talented players... boo f*cking hoo.

Mike Barnhart 8 years, 7 months ago

Well, the enigmatic Josh Selby era is over. I'm glad he's gone! Sticking around KU for another year or two would have sucked for both Selby and the 'Hawks. His king-sized ego, fragile psyche, laziness and slow feet were clearly red flags for the entire NBA braintrust.

He's far from the first phenom to bust-out of college.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

Just like you aren't the first poster to be completely wrong.

Slow feet?


Good lord, why not add in a bit about how his pointy tail got in the way? That would be equally accurate (aka, NOT accurate), but more entertaining.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

give me one example of Josh's exceptional work ethic.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

Give me one example of his laziness.

I didn't say he had "exceptional work ethic". I said he wasn't lazy.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

he preferred twitter to the weight room. he played loose and uninspired during games.

If he actually cared about improving himself, he would have gone the way of the Morris twins and worked his butt off during the off-season.

Still waiting on why you dont think hes lazy.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

Why don't I think he's lazy? Because I have eyes and I'm not going to go down the path of presuming what he did in his free time based on some specious "he played loose...during games" argument.

Your comments are ridiculous.

Preferred twitter to the weight room? So, were you hanging out with him all the time, seeing what he did in his free time, or are you dense enough to assume that one cannot hit the weight room and also spend 30 seconds composing a 140-character post?

Worked his butt off during the off-season? For starters, he DID work his butt off trying out for NBA teams, and I would imagine he'll continue working his butt off as he tries to make an NBA roster. But we'll see.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

working out for a month in vegas isnt an off season, especially with that much money on the line. he also arrived out of shape to KU last fall, and of course, no, I wasnt in the weight room... and neither was he.

Im stoked you have eyes though, but I'm not sure who you were looking at this season. He lacks work ethic like sherron before him. If he ever sees significant playing me in the NBA, you are the first I will eat crow before. But honestly, I'm not too worried about that.

rob4lb 8 years, 7 months ago

Josh Selby's fate this year if there even is a season. January game: D-league home game in Bismark North Dakota playing for the Dakota Wizards. About 2000 in attendance. Everyone in the building can hear the dribbling of the ball. Contrast that to a home game in Allen Fieldhouse- Big Monday, national TV, ESPN. In the back of his mind, does he realize he made the wrong decision. At the end of the day, he did not want to go to college and KU should have let him go elsewhere.

justanotherfan 8 years, 6 months ago

If Selby is in Bismarck, ND in January, he will be getting paid, so those paying fans will be chipping in for his salary, unlike if he had chosen to stay in Lawrence, regardless of how many fans are in attendance.

jgkojak 8 years, 7 months ago

Too bad someone couldn't have shown Selby a what-if - what-if he had worked as hard as he could and played such that KU beat VCU - Selby with a Nat. Championship ring probably goes Top 20.

David Howell 8 years, 7 months ago

Josh is to blame for his own demise. I have no problem with 1 and dones under the current system, IF they have a good year and then leave. Josh didn't ..........

Josh really didn't prove anything to the NBA scouts last year other then he could run the floor. Otherwise his shot wasn't close to reliable, his defense was quite suspect and he couldn't handle the ball (see benching in home game against Neb.). How can they speculate him at the point in the NBA when he never ever was going to be KU's point guard ? He simply turned the ball over way too much !

Supposedly Josh was having some great workouts, OR was it the staff that was pumping him up to us the fans ? I gotta believe that the NBA scouts saw a very raw prospect with hope that the development league could get him on their NBA roster inside of 3 years .............. Thus his draft spot late in the 2nd round was all he could really hope for.

KUfanInFlorida 8 years, 7 months ago

Selby did miss his shot. I mean, why not stay one more year and elevate your game? He would be a top 20 talent if he stayed one more year.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 7 months ago

I just feel sorry for Selby. It is unfortunate that a kid has adults around him that are so incompetent, greedy, selfish, and/or short-sighted to have permitted this kid to enter the draft after such a poor season. I'm sure that "friend" that provided him the improper benefits was providing him some of the wonderful advice .. out of the goodness of his heart. And mama Selby is just as culpable.

The whole world .. or at least the world that means something (this message board) .. would have steered Selby back to KU. It was obviously the right call. No doubt. As a note, I don't think I saw one post on this message board questioning the Morrises decision (meaning we .. all of us .. saw that as a sensible decision despite our selfish desires to have both back).

Again, this is just sad. But let's all do this .. let's root for the guy. Let's not be sucked in by the temptation to say "ah, told you so" and enjoy his failure because he was not to us, what we wanted him to be. Let's hope he succeeds. Let's provide kind words. None of us will enjoy life more, if Selby fails.

Hope he can get off the mat, dust himself off, and have an excellent career in the NBA, Europe, or wherever.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

Anyone who listened to Selby's interview on 610 Sports today and is a KU fan should WANT to root for him. Kid has been nothing but a stand-up guy (the departing Lawrence situation notwithstanding) and holds no ill-will and continues to say all the right things.

Here is the podcast for anyone who is interested:

gorillahawker 8 years, 7 months ago

Not a huge Keegan fan, and I am a Selby hopeful and always will be, but this article really hits home. I just wish the kid would have stayed around. In his defense, he had a goal to play in the NBA and for whatever reason he never connected with KU. I ran into Selby and all the players at a bar (you can probably guess where) after the huge Gameday, K-State beat down at Allen last season and Selby was very much isolated from the rest of the boys... Even though he was only a freshman, the disconnect was very obvious and kind of sad.

djhawk75 8 years, 7 months ago

Well said, gorilla. I did not have the chance to see the players personally, but just watching the games on TV had given me an impression that Selby was not as much a part of the team as he should have been.

squawkhawk 8 years, 6 months ago

Selby is symbolic of today's youth...they want it all, right now.

TheGiftedOne 8 years, 6 months ago

Like Josh Selby/anyone gives a rat's ass about what some overweight scrub from Lawrence, Kansas thinks. Do us all a favor Tom and quit the paper...or atleast quit with the worstless opinion pieces cause no one cares anymore. You're getting too old and you know it...give a kid with some fresh ideas a chance because you're starting to try a little too hard. Good luck Josh...this is just classic Tom "BullS***" Keegan. \

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