Friday, July 15, 2011


Commentary: KSU 13, Kansas 1 — really

Kansas State guard Jacob Pullen celebrates with the Bramlage Coliseum crowd following the Wildcats' 84-68 upset win over Kansas on Monday, Feb. 14, 2011.

Kansas State guard Jacob Pullen celebrates with the Bramlage Coliseum crowd following the Wildcats' 84-68 upset win over Kansas on Monday, Feb. 14, 2011.


Competing with the Big 12’s Oklahoma and Texas schools in sports other than men’s basketball always will present a steep challenge for Kansas University.

Recruits tend to want to go to nearby schools. Oklahoma and especially Texas produce far more talented athletes than does Kansas.

In some sports, such as baseball, softball and track and field, weather also works against KU. In some cases, athletic budgets and facilities favor others.

Call them excuses, but to an extent they just as easily could fall under the category of reasonable explanations that play a factor in the Jayhawks finishing dead-last in the all-sports standings.

Yet, it’s not difficult to find a counter to the argument geography plays the biggest part in Kansas’ failing to compete for any conference titles outside of men’s basketball. The excuse falls apart 75 miles to the west, 10 to the north.

Kansas State doesn’t have superior facilities to those of KU, does not have as sizeable a budget, has similar weather and is at an even greater geographic disadvantage because it’s not as close to Kansas City.

Despite those hurdles, the Wildcats dominated the Jayhawks on the fields and courts of competition during the 2010-2011 school year. In so doing, the ’Cats supplied their athletic director, John Currie, with a chance to boast, although he didn’t choose to do so in a tacky way.

In a letter to ’Catbackers dated June 1 and still posted on, Currie lists the Wildcats’ athletic achievements the past year. The final one listed, as if an afterthought so as not to be accused of rubbing it in, reads: “A combined 13-1 record against the Jayhawks in head-to-head competition.”

Really? It didn’t sound right, but a check of the records shows KU did indeed go 1-13 in the rivalry that desperately needs a nickname better than “Sunflower Showdown.”

The loss that stung the most: Kansas State 59, Kansas 7, a Thursday night blowout, Oct. 14, 2010, in Memorial Stadium, during which the players on the home team looked as if they were running in cement shoes, affirming why coach Turner Gill has put such a premium on recruiting faster players.

The lone victory: Kansas 90, Kansas State 66, fueled by Thomas Robinson’s 17-point, nine-rebound tribute to all those who supported him through his heartache. The game was played two days after his mother’s funeral.

K-State avenged the loss on Valentine’s Day, 84-68, when Jacob Pullen juiced Bramlage Coliseum with 38 points.

Kansas State swept two games in women’s basketball, executed a three-game sweep in baseball and swept two apiece in volleyball, rowing and women’s tennis.

If a coach of a nonrevenue sport chooses to whine about either the local newspaper or the K-State sports website reporting the data, he or she better not do so within earshot of first-year KU AD Sheahon Zenger. He’s not going to want to hear it. He’s not into using slogans in an attempt to create false perceptions about the state of the athletic department (aside from the perennial powerhouse men’s basketball program). Denial’s not his game. He’s interested in winning, not in offering a shoulder to capture the tears of those too often losing.


ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 11 months ago

Please...zenger is proud that his wildcats are beating the hawks. All he has done is sit quietly and showed no actions other than signing a million dollar check to bonnie.

I say fire everyone and let hcbs coach everything.

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 11 months ago

Oh, it wouldn't hurt you to read a message board once and a while as this has been a topic for the past 3 months.

And Pullen putting up 2 fingers for his 2 wins against the hawks makes me lol! Dude, 2 career wins over your rival for your career is something to be ashamed of, not proud!

hawkalumN2011 6 years, 11 months ago

Wait, what?? This seems like an almost back-handedly pro-KU comment. You feeling alright, ahpers??

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

ahperse - the caption was wrong on the photo, it was not after the game, but during. Pullen was looking at the bench - he had signaled Martin that he needed a "potty break" and Martin asked him - "number one, or number two?"

Aaron Carpenter 6 years, 11 months ago

I don't post much on here anymore, and ahpers is a big reason why. It seems he has just suddenly shown up, commenting on every story and a quite asinine fashion. I hope to wake up one day to find no posts from him, but that is probably not going to happen. It's nothing personal, I just find his facts often ascu and comments juvenile at best.

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 11 months ago

hold on. . .ok, i'm back. had to look up some of those fancy words you used. the reason i "shown up" is because my school is suddenly sunk to a level where we go 1-13 against k-state and this site is a sounding board to voice your displeasure.

bad_dog 6 years, 11 months ago

Umm, not to cover ahp's back, but I believe he's alluding to Zenger's alma mater. You know, KSU... Just a simple fact, I know.

AHP apparently doesn't believe Zenger can have allegiance to KU given his degree from KSU, thus his comment.

And now you know the rest of the story...

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 11 months ago



possibly the worst take of all time

onlylookin2score 6 years, 11 months ago

And yet no one here cares. On with 2011. Thanks.

Scott Oswalt 6 years, 11 months ago


You really don't? You're probably not a KU Alum then.

KU is turning into the laughing stock of the Big 12, with the exception of basketball. SZ-AD needs to get his hands dirty and start cracking that whip. It's inexcusable and quite frankly I'm starting to get irritated on what's going on with our athletic department. KU is paying most of our coaches top dollar and what are they getting in return? A mediocre performance at best. If K-State is finishing better than us in almost every sport, changes need to be made!

onlylookin2score 6 years, 11 months ago

You need to read my post at the guy below "kusportsdotcom" It pertains to you as well.

Have a nice day.

dylans 6 years, 11 months ago

What is KSU good at? National power in any real sport? Who gives a flip about meaningless wins?

Kyle Schneweis 6 years, 11 months ago


I didn't realize KU had any other sports other than men's basketball. Good luck to them, I guess.

dylans 6 years, 11 months ago

What other sports are played at KU? I was on campus for four years and never saw another team play a game. Well, I went to a few football games (Terry Allen era) to watch good teams paste KU kinda sad really. Turner Gill doesn't inspire much hope in me.

Hammertoe 6 years, 11 months ago

losing to midmajors in the NCAA must be embarrassing..

Scott Oswalt 6 years, 11 months ago

I don't need a genie to grant me a wish, so the men's b-ball team can be a national powerhouse. We already are captain obvious.

It's not just about going 13-1 against K-State. It's finishing at the bottom of the Big 12 in almost every sport. Ya, I love KU basketball, but seriously, how difficult is it to make other KU programs respectable.

You think we could at least get a decent coach/players for our women's bball team. They do play inside AFH, just like the men and have access to the same facilities and everything else....

Mike Barnhart 6 years, 11 months ago

Your genie is a jackass! There's no reason we can't be great in basketball and at least GOOD in all other sports.

Hammertoe 6 years, 11 months ago

A "National Powerhouse" doesn't lose to midmajors in the NCAA- VCU, Northern Iowa, Bucknell, Bradley...

Larry Smith 6 years, 11 months ago

Short Memory?? Wasn't the baseball team in the regional championship game a couple of years ago? Hardly not competitve "for a long time".

CardHawkFan 6 years, 11 months ago

Thanks for pointing that out about baseball. This past year's team was ravaged by, hmm... the MLB draft. We lost a ton of talent off of a team that could have been a competitor on a national stage had it not been for injury. On top of that, there a few local products that will help to put some marks back in the win column for the baseball team. Price is a fine coach, it has just taken him a long time and will continue to take a little to rebuild the dismal image that was KU Baseball before he came along. Keep doing what you're doing Coach Price!

Jim Williamson 6 years, 11 months ago

And by "overhaul," I hope you mean, "do away with."

Non-revenue sports, Olympic sports, whatever you want to call them, are a drain on the department's budget and should just be tanked.As should women's basketball.

Keep football -- which turns a profit, even in the most down year -- and men's basketball. Get rid of everything else.

Then offer up 120 scholarships to any females wishing to play on the nation's first D1 women's college football team. Since they'll never play, they won't need equipment and won't need travel money, and the whole thing maintains scholarship equity, which keeps the Title IX freaks off your back. You'll save millions.

jazamo 6 years, 11 months ago

you forget the sections about the selection of sports and levels of competition effectively accommodate the interests and abilities of members of both sexes as well as the requirement of scheduling games for the women's sports

onlylookin2score 6 years, 11 months ago

Well with you're closing statement, I guess KU is just doomed to perpetual patheicness.... oh, that is of course, except in BB.... Laws of statistics say years like this are going to happen.

I don't see K-State going to the BCS Orange Bowl game. I don't see K-State with a top 35 recruiting class in FB.

I don't see K-State getting ravaged by the MLB Draft..

I sure as hell don't see K-State doing anything with it's BB talent (besides watching them transfer and/or fall apart) since Michael Beasley.

And let me say this... In 1952 My Great Grandmother (RIP) bought 4 AFH season tickets 3 rows up from the court at the half court line opposite of the Benches. And kept them down through the decades. So I grew up going to every home game since 1984...when I was 3... even on school nights, every season until I left for college. Both my parents are KU Grads, (father Master in Physics 1975, Mother BA in Home Economics) I went to school Out of State because of a better Microbiology program. Either way I give my fair share to the Williams Fund... And I don't even get to go to the Games. I live in Wrightsville Beach, NC. So screw you and anyone else that wants to call into question my loyalty and dedication.


On with 2011-12.

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

onlylookin2score - I feel your pain brother. Any chance I could have YOUR seat? lol

onlylookin2score 6 years, 11 months ago

Alright... sorry... I had just gotten my Tiger Blood transfusion....

ksujoey 6 years, 11 months ago

Thanks dumb dumb K-State already Has been to two fiesta bowls and have had muliple classes inside the top thirty. Don't kid yourselves we will again., it's just a matter of time.

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

How to create irony from scratch:

Step 1: Address someone as "dumb dumb"

Step 2: Follow up said address with several grammatical and spelling errors: capitalize a word in the middle of a sentence, misspell "multiple", missing comma, extra comma/period, and a non-capitalized start of a sentence.

Step 3: Watch the hilarity ensue.

onlylookin2score 6 years, 11 months ago

You got any Gum Gum?

Yeah.. everybody's going to be just dying to come to Manhattan KS (AKA west nowhere) now that Bill Snyder's done with coaching again... oh and Prince is back.

Yep just time for you Purple Pussycats to just sit back and let greatness compound itself.

I can barely stand it. Ohhhhh boy.

The pitch should sound like, Hey.. Come play at K-State where we'll completely misuse your talent, help you harness your inner dissent for coaches, and best of all: All the Genetically engineered corn you can eat!!! Whooo. learn how to use a plow!

Mike Bratisax 6 years, 11 months ago

How do you put 1-13 into anything less than embarrassing? It's K State and 1-13 is not acceptable.

Jeeveshawk 6 years, 11 months ago

If you are trying to show that KSU has superior athletics to us, a picture of Jacob Pullen (KStates star basketball player) is not best to represent that. On top of that KU and KU fans obviously put 99% of their sports pride in to basketball (it might be 60-40 of 50-50 between bball and football if our football program could lift its ass off the ground) so to us we beat K-State overall (as we beat them by 8 more points than they beat us). So from a KU sports fans perspective we have it on them 99 to 1.

100 6 years, 11 months ago

The part the "other" editors at the LJW cut out of this "piece":

"......And in the sports that matter, KU went 1-2 against the the team 75 miles to the west. Not something to write home to your mom in Syracuse about (Orange Orange Orange, Gooo Orange!!!!), but certainly not nearly as deceptive as me throwing 13 rocks across the pond to your one. .......And in further sporting news, KU also averaged approximately 1-1 against all other big 12 teams in the sports that matter, including a rebuilding year in football with a new coach & what was supposed to be a rebuilding year in basketball. But who am I to report these types of things, theres so many $donuts$ to be made in NCAA archery, & furthermore, & more importantly, I'm too busy to report anything more to you about your one big yellow gooey booger that won an ESPY, you see I'm too busy enjoying these thirteen donut holes too much to bother typing this report anymore!"

HawkTronic 6 years, 11 months ago

"sports that matter" ??? I thought you were a fan, 100. If any of the girls soccer players find you in a dark alley, they will go Elizebeth Lambert on your a$$. Your attitude is why the previous administration put us in this situation. All Jayhawk athletes deserve an equal chance to play for championships. Don't limit your love.

100 6 years, 11 months ago


Keep in mind the above post is meant for a light dose of humor in a rather embarrassing report. Not sure why Keegan made this issue with one school beating us multiple times when really it was the entire Big 12 conference (at least in the non revenue sports).

Sorry it was taken the wrong way & I certainly don't want to spread a bad attitude about our non revenue sports. The humor is there if you look for it (remember Keegan is the shallow reporter here), but I must admit it looks like I had an agenda.

The fact is this is an embarrassing report. It would have been nice to see it reported with a headline of dead last. That's embarrassing enough.

I do question Keegan's motive of presenting it this way. I hope he has a hidden motive to stir KU fans up & maybe it's working, but to me he seems like he's been getting some parting shots in on us.

It's not "what" he says. It's "how" he says it.

Reread my post through those glasses & at least you won't frown. Anyhow all around a thoughtless post on my part because apparently it reaffirms a long held attitude.

That said, is there any wonder why UT & OU pour their money into their football programs?

The reason is money. And that money at a huge University with three times as many prospective student athletes living in the surrounding areas, turns into a pretty nice track team/baseball team etc.

Not saying this fight is the impossible fight; kU at one time had a great track team & great teams in just about every other sport at one time or another.

The biggest point here is Kstate certainly did a pretty good job against us last year in the non revenue sports. But let's not kid ourselves, like almost always, the teams who rank low in the non revenue sports, Iowa State, KSU & Kansas finished bottom three again. Not good. As funhawk says, not fun.

But where is the solution? Well first of all we have a population issue that can't be fixed & I say "good". It's a great state to live for that reason where true Midwestern values are still alive & it also makes us the underdog from a fan's perspective (we don't have quite the bandwagon snobs that the Dukes or Carolinas have). Again it's a population thing with these non revenue sports. KSU did remarkably well last year. But they still finished 11th place. And most of those wins against us, where they went 13-1, weren't all the football score. Most of those games/events were competitive & full of guts, the greatest part of college sports anyway (the Rudy/Phog complex).

When it comes down to it, population aside... This thing is fixed if a football power shows up on campus that lasts for decades.

That's. Where. The. Real. Collegiate money comes from to build the other sports.

Rock Chalk

HawkTronic 6 years, 11 months ago

Sorry I mis-read your post. Didn't seem like your normal stuff. To add to some of your "how do we fix it" questions: KU spends about 40% of its budget on administration (department admin and fundrasiing, not coaches). TX spends 30%, MU spends about 30% also. Those schools have competitive non-rev sports AND men's swimming. My hope is that our new AD will cut the admin fat and put the money into athletes and quality coaches. Good coaches (who can recruit) go a long way in improving non-rev - even with the geographic limitations we have.

Mike Bratisax 6 years, 11 months ago

I thought they all mattered. If not, then drop them and save some money.

waywardJay 6 years, 11 months ago

Seriously, Is the best the Journal world can hope for is this for it's Sports Editor.....

I've something doesn't change soon, and I'm going to start getting my information from Espn.

phi4life940 6 years, 11 months ago

Tell me about it. I don't think I can take many more of these Keegan articles. If you read between the lines you'll see:

"I would really prefer to be at a bigger University that is sub-par in basketball, but really good at football. I would prefer to be at an SEC or Big Ten school. I hate KU. KU is overrated. KU is not better than K-State. I love Jacob Pullen. I think I'd settle for another Big XII school, like Oklahoma or Texas."

I can't stand Keegan.

Jim Williamson 6 years, 11 months ago

Yet you read his column every day, don't you?

Keith Kienzle 6 years, 11 months ago

I have to defend Keegan here. He's written some REAL stinkers lately, but this article marks a change... a little more restraint and unopinionated reporting.. Yes, I agree that the article wasn't exceptional, but I kind of enjoyed it. It did not make me want to slap someone. Thanks for the effort, Tom.

pnye 6 years, 11 months ago

Sometimes (all the time), I feel like I could write more insightful news stories about KU athletics than Tom of charge.

phoggydrive 6 years, 11 months ago

It was one year. I'll start to worry if it becomes a trend.

Must be the dog days of summer if we have to stretch this into an article.

John Randall 6 years, 11 months ago

One year, you say? Tom was just being charitable – during the 15 years of the BigXII, KU has stayed in the bottom 8% of the standings in over-all sports success. By that, I mean 11th or 12th out of twelve. That is not just "having a bad year now and then."

Any KU fan who accepts, even brags on Men's B-ball banners and hopes for at least mediocrity on the gridiron needs to comb the sand out of his/her hair!

It hasn't just been the behemoths, either – hardly ever do we as much as break even with ISU, Baylor, Colo, Nebr, not to mention our top rivals at Columbia and Manhattan.

The record is pathetic, and I very much support SZ calling out the entire athletic department to at least improve on the pitiful state of affairs where year-after-year of DEAD LAST in multiple sports has come to be the accepted state of KU athletics.

phoggydrive 6 years, 11 months ago

KU62 - You need to re-read the artice and the re-read my comments. The article is about KU vs. K-State, so my comments address only that (The KU-K-State debate).

My comment has nothing to do with how KU has finished in the Big 12 standings overall over the past 15 years like you reference, yet you jumped to that conclusion.

John Randall 6 years, 11 months ago

So, you'd have felt better if Keegan had spelled out each of the head-to-results and you could have reveled that KU went 4-10 or maybe 5-9 against one or two others? Twelfth out of twelve should be self-explanatory.

I took your comments to be a pre-teen screaming, "I don't want to hear about it!" It'll take more than some pre-canned Keegan bashing to change my opinion.

I have located a link to one of the articles about Zenger's full department meeting where he stated how unacceptable things have become and his own commitment to rolling up sleeves and getting to work on it. That needs to be the focus for everyone purporting to support KU athletics.

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

There's a couple problems here:

1) Keegan is "calling out" an Athletic Department that just underwent an overhaul at the top. So he's calling out the current regime for the previous regime's handiwork. I have no objection to our sportswriters demanding excellence from KU sports. But this was a bait-and-switch at it's finest. Not quality journalism.

2) KU finishes in the lower half of the conference in "all sports" partly as a function of our size. But Keegan specifically uses KSU as the basis for comparison on the premise that they have the same geographical/population disadvantage. He suggests that it is not an excuse, since KSU is "successful" with the same disadvantage. However, he fails to note that he is defining "successfully" overcoming said disadvantage by comparing two schools that finished in the bottom of the conference TOGETHER.

Now, if he could show KSU having consistent superiority over KU over several years, his suggestion that KSU is able to overcome their geographical disadvantage might hold some water.

But no, all he's really doing here is taking 500+ words to point out that one bottom-of-the-pack Athletic Dept. dominated another bottom-of-the-pack Athletic Dept. for one year. I'm not really sure what that proves.

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Didn't we all just have this argument a couple of weeks ago? Maybe we should just let the scabs heal. I'm referring to the article, by the way, not the posters.

yates33333 6 years, 11 months ago

This article is typical LJW "bullsh*t."

jhox 6 years, 11 months ago

A lot of people are shooting the messenger here. This needed to be heard. If we're going to pay these non-revenue sports coaches hundreds or thousands of dollars (or even millions of dollars as in Bonnie's case), then they need to answer for their poor performance.

It's too soon for Zenger to clean house, having just gotten here, but he better put these lazy coaches on notice that they're on a short leash from here forward.

Just win, Baby.

Scott Oswalt 6 years, 11 months ago

Why is it too soon for SZ to clean house? If coaches aren't getting their teams to perform, find someone else. I don't care if he has been the AD for only a year, KU needs to start getting competitive. This finishing last in almost every sport is bulls***!!!!!!!

Marcia Parsons 6 years, 11 months ago

Didn't I read that a new AD isn't allowed to fire anyone during his first year? Maybe I'm just imagining that because I went back and tried to find it, but couldn't. Anyone else remember?

Scott Oswalt 6 years, 11 months ago

I'm not sure....

It that's true, the day after his 1yr. he needs to clean house!

newmedia 6 years, 11 months ago

As sad as it may be I don't see it changing anytime soon. Can't wait for this falls annual in-state football beat down. At least only about 90 days until Oct 15th.

Stan Unruh 6 years, 11 months ago

LJW is just.. telling it like it is... and it is no fun seeing this information in print. Something needs to change. We can't live off the the 2008 Orange Bowl and NCAA BB championships any longer.

emaw 6 years, 11 months ago

So funny to read some of the comment this morning. Get mad.....kill the messenger! Go State! Can't wait to watch the boys stomp you in football again this year.

phi4life940 6 years, 11 months ago

Ah, the time-old "Can't wait for K-State to crush KU in football." Followed by the "Can't wait for KU to kill K-State in basketball."

Let's not forget what's really important...the University.

KU: Med School, Law School etc. etc. etc.

K-State: Agriculture........

I think it's obvious which school is senior/elite/superior.

Thanks for making look better by visiting our site often and commenting.....I guess a KSU fan would have to since their own website is garbage and no one wants to visit it.

Rock Chalk

John Randall 6 years, 11 months ago

If you want to trumpet academics as your claim to "senior/elite/superior" status, you may be a quarter century or more behind the times. The 'Harvard on the Kaw' era is fast becoming ancient history, as MU, CU, NU have moved abreast or ahead and OSU, ISU, KSU, even the football factory in Norman, narrowed the gap considerably. Texas and aTm have the kind of money it takes to recruit Nobelists and such – and have been doing so since before horning into the BigEight. Neither Baylor nor TTech are sitting on their hands, either.

The old "Snob Hill" epithet may still apply with regard to attitude (yours and other's), but with far less justification than was the case during the middle third of last century.

I take no pleasure in pointing out the (at least relative) decline of fortune$ on The Hill, but the fact is that our state is in the economic doldrums and KU alumni are vacating at an alarming rate, most taking their financial support with them.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

And I have to read year after year that KSU leads the Big 12 in percent of alumni who contribute to KSU. This is also very embarrassing for KU.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

PHI, your point is idiotic. What good is medicine if people have no food to eat? Agriculture is probably the most important industry in the US and anywhere in the world. There would be no need for doctors or lawyers if all the people were starving. Keep this to sports please because you only look stupid with comments like yours.

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

That's why it takes 4 years of undergrad, another 4 years of graduate school, and a further 4-10 years of additional post-school training to become a farmer huh? Because that's what it takes to become the bare minimum, able-to-practice, doctor.

Agriculture is certainly of enormous importance. Society cannot function without a food supply. However, if you're going to frame the argument like this "what good is X if people don't have Y!?" then everything in the world is of completely equal importance, and we all know that's a foolish notion.

The bottom line is that, as a general rule, on the average, Medicine, Law, etc. require a higher level of educational training. It's not a judgement on which disciplines are "most important", just a judgement on which require greater academic involvement to achieve a minimum level of competency in said discipline.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

This whole topic is idiotic because obviously all of these disciplines are important and you can't really say that one is more important than the other, regardless of how much education is needed. This discussion could go on and on...for example, it takes many years to become a doctor but substantially less training to become an auto mechanic. But, what does the doctor do when his Benz doesn't run? Right, he goes to the mechanic because he cannot fix it. What does the doctor do when he is hungry? Right, he goes to the store to by food that was planted and harvested by the farmer because he can't.

jazamo 6 years, 11 months ago

Don't forget K-State has a top 5 architecture school, and the only school in the state to have a top 100 engineering school, and are the only business school in the state of Kansas to appear in Business Week's top business school

You should probably stop focusing on stereotypes and do some ACTUAL research

BillSelf4Prez 6 years, 11 months ago

actuallt its emaw- emotional men are wildcats

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Phog, to keep in in perspective, little bro is kicking big bros a$$ so you only look stupid with comments like this. I guess the superiority complex we KU fans have had for years is no longer warranted.

gorilla10 6 years, 11 months ago

yeah, but we won a conference championship!!!

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

What's REALLY funny emaw (Effeminate Men - Amazon Women) is the fact that you come on here and puff out your tiny little hairless chest bragging about football. I'm sure you personally have had much to do with that and I congratulate you! That's pretty impressive for a 12 year old.

Even funnier than that is the fact that you have so little self esteem that you feel the need to go to another school's website and post your unwanted comments.

I'm pretty sure that most of the regular KU fans here don't go to other school's sites except maybe to check schedules or look up a few statistics because, when it comes to their fans - well - we just don't care.

stevedaveksu 6 years, 11 months ago

"Effeminate Men - Amazon Women" lol :thumbsup:

KGphoto 6 years, 11 months ago

Dominated in Rowing again. Damn!!

Seriously this list is way too funny. Have you ever watched a college women's tennis match? It's like watching an elementary school girls tennis match. A friend of mine played at CU, and even she laughed at how lame it was. Nobody goes to those matches except the teams and the moms of the players. The ball is moving so slowly you just want to scream. I'm not hating the players here, but if you are really good at tennis, you don't play in college.

Volleyball? I shoot an occasional event. Nice shorts. Other than that, there are about 100 fans in the seats for the average match at CU. Even at Nebraska most of the fans are friends of the players, and the Huskers are perennial title contenders. It's only watchable for about 30 minutes, then you start getting tired of looking at booties and wondering how much longer this thing is gonna last. The girls are competitive, but there is a reason it's not a revenue sport. At CU about 10x more people show up to watch Cross Country running, and they cheer louder too.

Rowing. Has anybody here, including Keegan, ever been to one of these matches, er games, er whatever you call them? Again, not bagging the competitors, just wondering why I'm supposed to give a poo if we lose to K-State in rowing, other than to be a Cro-Magnon fan, and beat my chest every time I win a coin flip. If they win, great. If they lose, better luck next time. I'm not about to start comparing schools based on the success of those sports.

That accounts for 6 losses, that I would never have known about if it weren't for Keegan including them up for a little Zenger shock factor. So let's carve it down to some numbers that I care a little about. We're still 1-7. But three of those losses were in baseball, and I'm not exactly catching a lot of those games either. Especially since the kids started wearing their caps like skater morons. Even before that, I honestly preferred watching the Little League World Series to the college one.

Now we're 1-4 in sports I pay any real attention to. We've already discussed, ad nauseam, the Bonnie factor. And I also read on somebodies post that Zenger couldn't fire anybody in his first year. So there isn't much he can do for now.

That brings us to 1-2. I don't love it, but TG gets a few years, like it or not persey. And the fact that we have gone about 50-2 against them in basketball since the 80's, is somehow keeping me from crying for a new coach, and or worrying about 1-13.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Facts are facts, bro. Try to down play it as much as you want but the fact remains the same...KSU owns KU in every other sport except BB. And they are making progress there too.

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

Making progress? Is that what you recite before your mommy tucks you in at night?

Sorry, "bro", but winning 3 games in the last 30 or so games is not "progress".

Hey, maybe competing for a conference title would be a start to "progress". Hard to say you're making progress when, in the last 9 years, KU's lowest finish in the Big 12 has been higher than KSU's highest finish. Just so we're clear, being picked to win the Big 12 doesn't count as "progress" (at least in comparison to KU, as it certainly counts as progress when compared to KSU's recent history).

So go ahead and beat your chest about KSU "owning" KU in sports that I imagine the depth of your knowledge about which is equivalent to the information contained in this article.

Tell you what--if you can tell me KSU's record against KU over the past, say.... 5 years, in sports besides basketball and football, you can be free to continue bragging without shame. But we both know that you're going to have to go look it up, because you're the same as most fans--you don't really care about all those sports, except as a pathetic way to vicariously feel better about your school.

Frankly, I don't care if KSU beats KU in any sports except basketball and football.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

And KSU can say the same about KU football. We win a couple of games in twenty some years and we think we've overcome KSU in FB...what a joke. I laugh at other KU fans who pencil in KSU and MU as a FB win every year only to be disappointed year-after-year.

KGphoto 6 years, 11 months ago

And another thing. How many national titles does K-State have in all those sports combined? I just don't see KU being considered a laughing stock because a few girls can't get their rowing together, or get their serve dialed in. Nationally we are considered a basketball champion! When I travel anywhere, from coast to coast, and I'm wearing my KU logo, I never hear anything about "laughing stock". I generally get a lot of respect for being a Jayhawk. Never once did I hear, "Yeah, but your women's tennis team is terrible.". Gimme a break with this laughing stock business.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

You'd be amazed at how many fans at KU could care less about BB. To you, me and a lot of others it is everything but it isnt' to everyone. You'd also be amazed at how many people actually do follow the other minor sports...more than you'd think. Sure, they don't add much to the bottom line but it matters when people pick up the paper and they read that KU is getting spanked again by some other school...regardless of the sport. National image is important.

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

The fact that you really think things like volleyball, rowing and tennis have a profound effect on Kansas' national image shows just how delusional you really are.

Face it buddy, when people say they follow college athletics, they mean "I follow college football and basketball". And when they think of a given school, two things come to mind (in sports): basketball and football.

So when people think "Kansas Athletics", do you really believe they are thinking: "great men's basketball, but their rowing team is really awful"? NO. Of course not. They think "great basketball team, and pretty mediocre football team"

Unfortunately for you and your fellow attention-craving Wildcats, when people on the national stage think "Kansas State Athletics", they think--"hey, isn't that the school with fans that think they are a football powerhouse?" Or they think "hey, that's the home of Allen Fieldhouse West!"

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

And, unfortunately, when they think of KU they think of ticket scandals and fraud, fat football coaches, awful FB teams, corrupt AD departments, overpaid coaches and so on. Point is, neither school is as good as they think and neither school has the image they really want.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

And I hear crap like "wow, you guys have a tool for an AD (Perkins)" or "do you guy still have that fat FB coach" or "don't you guys know how to manage your AD dept" cuts both ways.

Clarence Haynes 6 years, 11 months ago

One of the big culprits here is the LJW and others covering Kansas Sports. You hardly read a scintilla about KU Athletics other than Basketball, Football, and (to a lesser extent) Baseball. This IMO impacts recruiting the high calibre athletes and attracting first rate coaches that would make us more competitive against K State, the remainder of the Conference, and nationally. Moreover, if we are not aware of which team is succeeding or which one sucks, we might not be as effective in urging the Athletics Department to make he necessary changes that make us competitive. As much as I challenge Dr. Zenger with giving coaches and athletes the facilities and resources to succeed, I challenge the LJW to increase its coverage of non revenue sports even if it means hiring a couple of interns from William Allen White J-School to provide such coverage.

KGphoto 6 years, 11 months ago

I appreciate the spirit, but I think most KU sports fans don't even have the time in a day to follow more than basketball and football. I'll be in enough trouble with my wife if KU women's basketball does start showing up on the national scene.

Success in non-revenue sports is probably most beneficial to a university as a bragging tool for one of those commercials you see during a basketball or football game. It shows diversity and makes the school look more exciting. Actually even then, success isn't really necessary. You just have to have the programs in place and get some shots for the ad.

This is true at KU just like it is true at Texas, Ohio St., Florida or any other monster school, and just like at KSU too. Those sports are kept alive by the sports people tune-in to watch. It will always be that way.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be competitive in those areas, I just think you will always find yourself in empty, quiet bleachers. (Insert ahperse, KU football joke here.)

Clarence Haynes 6 years, 11 months ago

Respectfully disagree KGphoto. If you have national caibre programs, you will draw respectful crowds.

KGphoto 6 years, 11 months ago

For Rowing and Tennis? I don't know about that. I bet you couldn't name the school who won last year's women's tennis title. How about rowing? I know the Ivy schools dig it, but unless it's the olympics...

Women's basketball has a hard enough time, and they have a prime time, nationally televised Final Four just like the boys. I bet there are only a handful of schools in the country that sell out women's basketball games. The rest of the top women's programs are lucky to fill half the arena, and the vast majority remain nearly empty for almost every game. That's the #3 college sport in America we're talking about. KU was in the WNIT Championship, at home, and they could barely fill AFH.

I agree with you that if the team is a national contender, you'll garner more interest, but outside of the big 3, and possibly 4 with baseball, what good does that do the university?

Clarence Haynes 6 years, 11 months ago

KGphoto, the best example is KU Track & Field during the regimes of Bill Easton and Bob Timmons that put us on the map. Performers like Oerter, Ryun, Mills, among others, represented the University well at the highest level (I still get excited seeing tapes of Billy Mills overtaking Ron Clarke of Nrw Zealand in Tokyo and perhaps the likes of Diamond Dixon can make us proud again of that legacy). When baseball, softball, and women's b-ball do well, we get TV exposure. That promotes the University.

jaybate 6 years, 11 months ago

What is wrong with being bad at all these sports?

Why does KU have to be good at every thing?

Ivy League schools suck at most sports, often all sports, and no one complains a whit about that.

What is so wrong with just being good at basketball.

I was at KU in the 70s and the Floyd Temple lead baseball Hawks were mediocre at best. But I was among a small coterie of hooligans that embraced the baseball team, as the bleacher bumbs of Chicago embraced the then lowly Cubs.

We ordered pizzas delivered to our friends in the dugout.

We shagged a foul ball and signed it and presented the ball to Coach Temple.

One of us streaked the outfield between innings in a game versus OU.

We frankly had almost as much fun in the spring watching bad baseball, as we did watching good basketball in winter.

Shouldn't it be part of a university's function to field some bad teams in order to prepare students to be citizens trained to support both the good and the bad teams they will inevitably encounter as they move about the country.

It has helped me immeasurably to be exposed to the greatness of the KU basketball legacy, so that I can tell the difference between sports teams that know what they are doing and those that are run by persons that will never be able to field a competitive team.

But at the same time it helped me immeasurably to be exposed to mediocre KU baseball, so that I know how to enjoy mediocrity, when that is all that is available.

And in truth, there is a lot more mediocrity at hand as one moves about the country than there is excellence.

I am happy for KSU to have risen to just short of football excellence for a time and for their lesser teams to have peformed well, and their basketball team to reach as much excellence as possible under the stewardship of a coach widely called a prince of !@#$%ing darkness, and another that might be called Bert The Hitman.

Tony Bandle 6 years, 11 months ago

Help me here, are these the ones counted as the non-revenue sports?: Basketball [Women], Baseball [Men], Softball [Women] Track [Men and Women], Gymnastics [Men and Women], Soccer [Men and Women], Golf [Men and Women], Tennis [Men and Women], Swimming and Diving [Men and Women]

Several Solutions: 1] Just drop them, then you can't lose what you don't play. 2] Tell the other schools that at Kansas, they are all revenue-generating sports, so we can't take on anybody. 3] Have all the participants in these sports play in the nude.....that will definitely generate interest, income and attention. 4] Build new venues, hire better coaches, pour more money into these sports.....NNAAAHHHH!!!! That would never work!! :)

Tony Bandle 6 years, 11 months ago

Item 4 falls under the category of sarcasm. You are correct, of course. My point is that the solution is so obviuos, our administration will never "get" it.

KGphoto 6 years, 11 months ago

Like Duke, Boston College, USC, Syracuse... Sure, but those are privately funded schools. And they kind of play amongst themselves. They are really the only schools you'll find that live and die for those certain non-revenue sports that you usually have to be rich to pursue. You ever heard of the Big 12 LaCrosse Championship? No.

In Tennis, if you are good at a young age, it's probably because your parents belonged to a club, and you had a very expensive coach. In Rowing, if you're good, you probably have a family who has roots in the Ivy League. Those damn boats are expensive, and you usually need to belong to an expensive club to even have a chance to try it.

Golf has been growing, but if you have enough time to be good, you probably come from money. You ever see a pick-up golf match? Hell no! You gotta get dressed up and be polite and keep your own score, and be a gentleman. Phooey. I hate it. I don't need KU to be good at any of these sports. We can be good at basketball and still be gentlemanly.

Tell me why we need to be competitive in everything?

jaybate 6 years, 11 months ago

But I am even happier to be a KU fan. KU is so phenomenally great at basketball it is down right crazy. And we have even had some good years in football. And I don't really care how the kids do in the minor sports, so long as they are working at getting better and doing their best. In fact, if KU were to insist on becoming better in the minor sports, KU would probably have to cut most of the kids in the minor sports programs and go out and get top of the line talent. How good would that be for the kids working and sweating for KU right now? It would be lousy. And for what? So KU can say it has the top athletic program across the board of any Big 12 school? Who cares? Outside of basketball, football, and track, they are just games for kids to play to have fun and learn about themselves.

And I'm not just biased toward those traditionally major sports. I like that certain California schools strive to be great at volleyball, while sucking at everything else.

Every school in every region ought to have something it takes pride in and is good at, and other sports it just provides as a service.

Above all, KU should prioritize academic funding above any minor sport.

Outside of football and basketball, KU and Kansans can benefit much more from being great at carbon nanotube technology research and education than at golf, or tennis.

You want your kids to have jobs and prosperous communities to live in? Help KU pioneer the next killer app.

Minor sports are just games for fun, when you already have The Father of All Basketball programs, as KU has, or when you have a truly storied football program, like OU., or Texas.

For god's sakes, there is no crime in letting Iowa State, or OSU, or KSU, be the best at wrestling, or golf, or whatever.

jaybate 6 years, 11 months ago

This was one of the funniest, most profound bits the master of all baby boom comedians ever performed. And so early and in such a light weight flick.

jjhawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Why is this a bad article? I get the criticism that Keegan's articles lack substance, but this one doesn't. It's bad news but don't kill the messenger. I find it interesting how poorly we're doing. I'm glad our former AD is gone. And I hope our new one can instill a little life into a program that truly needs it. The discussion about all of the schools leaving the Big 12 was embarrassing. No other conference wanted us. Sure the big reason was our football program. But we had nothing to offer other than basketball. We simply don't compete. And we need to do better. Kudos to Keegan for continuing this theme -- the new information he brings to this is KSU's bragging about it. Frankly, that's the most embarrassing part of all of this. We're playing second fiddle to them... How low is that?

Dyrk Dugan 6 years, 11 months ago

to KGPHOTO's overall point: You have a good one....but only to a certain extent. if NOBODY cares about these sports, why then do we have teams? why are we granting scholarships? why are we paying an associate AD, a coach, assistant coaches, all the medical staff and everyone else to participate in these sports? if you're going to compete, then compete. i attended KU five years...and i attended no rowing, or tennis events. i didn't have time to go to every sport. since i've been out of school, lots of VB matches, a few baseball games and that's it. (besides being a long time FB season ticket holder.) Just because people aren't lining up on gameday for tickets, doesn't mean we shouldn't care about the results.

a 2nd take: KSU does care about these sports. they put it on their own website to boast about. which is their right. Now, has KU ever had a dominating year vs. KSU? probably many times back in the day. in the modern information age (last 15 years or so) I'm sure not. they've been whipping us a lot, VB and womens basketball in particular.

which brings me to my point: there is a certain school pride at stake here. we, as Jayhawk fans, like to beat our rival schools. with NU out of the league, we have to outrecruit, play and defeat on a regular basis, three schools to have a chance at league titles or any postseason success: KSU, MU and ISU. this is bottom line, period, period. if we can't line up and regularly beat these schools in all sports, we might as well pack it in. we are a big time college program, and in overall athletics we're one of the worst schools in the country. these are facts. and until we have better years against those three, it won't improve anytime soon.

Do we have a great legacy in sports? of course. a lot more than the grapes for sure...but right now they're better than us. they just are. if posting to their website, their dominating record over us this past school year doesn't fire up some of our coaches and athletes, then not much will. i expect a better year from us in 2011-12.

again, the challenge for Mr. Zenger is daunting. he has to make sure FB gets going...and starts improving and competing year over year...and this must be the demand for ALL sports at KU. mens bball is a given....but no other sport is close right now. Our last AD couldn't/wouldn't do it...he focused on himself and dollars. it's time now to focus on high quality in coaching, recruiting and development. it's time for KU to become a real sports school.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

We said MVjayhawk. I couldn't have said it any better.

Jim Pendleton 6 years, 11 months ago

While I will say that some of these comments are pretty funny (Jaybate - streaking at a baseball game, really?), it is also somewhat sad that people don't care about most of our programs outside the major sports.

Don't get me wrong, I am probably like most people. Basketball and football are most important to me, always will be. However, as a KU Alum and fan of everything KU Athletics, I expect us to be good in basketball, and at the very least competitive in everything else. with some occasional opportunities for titles. I do not like to see stories in June & July about KU going 1-13 versus KSU, or that we finished last among all other conference schools in overall sports competition.

When we see recent periods where the football team went to bowls three out of four years, and the baseball team made two regionals in a row (won conf tourney one year), and softball team made some regionals (also won conf tourney), and mens golf team made the NCAA's every year for awhile, we should all get to the point where these things should be expected, not hoped for.

Some of the other sports have become bigger deals than what they were even 10 or 15 years ago. The College World Series and Womens Softball Series now both have 64 team fields that include regionals and super-regionals. It sickens me to see some of the other teams from our own league who are becoming players in these events. Nebraska has fallen off in baseball recently, but they made the CWS twice a few years back. Missouri has made two Women's CWS in a row. We used to have some good teams in these sports, there is no excuse for us not being at least competitive here, with the chance to make these tourney's more times than not, and dare to dream, even host a regional some day.

Everyone knows where I stand on football. We need to become a regular player here as well. Yes it will be tough to win the league, especially now playing everyone each year. However, if KSU & MU can build programs to the levels they have in the past, we should be able to do that also. We should expect winning records and bowl qualification every year. Some may not believe that, but we should expect it.

It is easy to say that losing multiple good players from these various teams causes the bad seasons, however if our overall athletic programs are to become what our basketball team always is, we need to learn how to reload not rebuild. That is how all athletic programs like the OU's, Texas, Florida's, and Ohio State's of the world are good every year. They expect to reload.

We must do our part as fans to support all these teams. I realize people aren't going to show up in droves for the smaller sports, but we must be more supportive. Give a rip about what they are doing. Football and baseball games need to be sold out, and with our fans, not several thousand from our opponents. We have to build all this to a higher level and keep it there. Rock Chalk!!

FoCoCoHawk 6 years, 11 months ago

It's not whether you when or lose with student-athletes, it's how well one can make an argument for the best Glue Guy (/Gal.)

More disturbing is translating Okie Ball in swimming or gymnastics.

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 11 months ago

Losing is one thing, losing when you're getting paid 6 or 7 figures is another.

kcn18 6 years, 11 months ago

In my opinion the only sports that anyone cares about is MEN's basketball and football. So we got the Basketball part dominated and football both programs can be called a toss up. So do away with all sports besides these 2 and we are guaranteed to be at least 1 - 1 every year. haha Plus we would be making more money instead of wasting it on programs that can't win anything and cost more than they make back.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Calling football as toss up is a bit of a stretch, that is unless you go back to the beginning of time (but who cares about that?). KSU has dominated us for the past 20 years with the exception of 2 good years under Mangino and Reesing. For me, BB is not enough to keep me engaged for the entire year. I want to see KU more competitive in every sport and I think most fans do too.

stevedaveksu 6 years, 11 months ago

the comment section of this website is always amazing. great job everyone.

justinryman 6 years, 11 months ago

Dear, and LJW editors, Directors and owners.

Would you please fire Tom Keegan, as you can see not only from his article today, but his articles in the past two weeks. He has stated the obvious about Thomas Robinson, and totally missed the mark on Brock Berglund with his egotistical opinions.

Perhaps he is trying to get himself fired so he can go work and some free weekly paper that has more ads than it does actually stories in it. He is writing to some of the most educated sports fans in the country, Kansas University fans.

That's right, just as Keegan does so can I us my own opinions to state the obvious. Kansas fans know their school, know their teams and they know their athletes. If Mr. Keegan is writing articles just to get message board postings then he is doing a fine job of it, but if he is writing like a professional journalist, then well he is missing his mark. If he really wants to see how many post he can gather, or how many "hits" one of his columns can accumulate, then maybe he should just keep hitting the refresh button on his desk top. Yes his desk top, as we all know that he needs a desk to write at to hold his coffee and three boxes of doughnuts.

I plead to you to right your ship, get it back on course before your readers and the fans of the University go else where. Tom Keegan is not good for your business, and he will just bring it all down brick by brick, story by story if he is allowed to spew the words he is allowed to print.

A very concerned reader and fan of all KU Athletics,

Justin Ryman

justinryman 6 years, 11 months ago

Oh I was over the edge and just set by and waited, then this came along and well I guess you could say I hit the ground harder than Wyle E. Coyote. So I responded and what you read is what was on my mind for a week or two.

I guess it was a cumulative score that put me at wits end. If my comment put you there, then Im sorry. I am just wishing something would be done and soon. Maybe the head Journalism job is open at MU and he is afraid to apply for it since he has a job that his bosses don't care about and he can get away with anything. And once he is fired and wishing for it he can apply and become a Tiger and bash KU like aphersay does...OK Keegan will go beyond that.

I really just think that he has ran his course at and the ljw, but it isn't up for me to decide alone. I need support from others....

So who's with me??

justinryman 6 years, 11 months ago

It's all good.

Jayhawks fans stick together.

dynamitehawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Jesse 'The Pimp' Newell!

Are you hearing the masses?!? We need a Newell Post for every field hockey match, baseball game, and for swimming, too... That could get dangerous though. Judging by increasingly inebriated posts (myself included) for the average basketball game (two hours), a baseball game that stretches into extra innings might leave half the state with alcohol poisoning. Never mind. I'm sticking with basketball.

Randy Bombardier 6 years, 11 months ago

I like what you say, AtlJaybird. The college sports landscape is dominated by Football and Men's Basketball. Revenue generators both. The rest of the programs are what football and basketball used to be, real amateur sports. If football and basketball could go backward to that kind of standing I'd be all for it. Will the other sports ever reach their level. Most likely never. Since football and bball cannot return to the past what do we do, find a super athlete that can carry us to the national title game and find some circuitous way of paying him or his dad's church? Cheat as much or more than the next guy? I think it is high time that we require a national exam if an athlete will receive a scholarship at a university. If he cannot pass it he cannot play. We need to tighten up the rules and reach all the way back to high school to where athletes know if they try to make their sport the be-all, end-all without hitting the books they most likely will neither have a pro career or a job after college. Present the real hard truth, that as much as you want to win if you get your priorities out of kilter you will be a loser.

FoCoCoHawk 6 years, 11 months ago

And let's apply these same standards to journalists.

(Are you listening Lawrence Urinal-Whirl?)

Randy Bombardier 6 years, 11 months ago

I also remember a sidebar article in 1996 in SI entitled "Jayhogs". The article was about KU's remarkable season in sports, finishing in the top ten in Baseball, Basketball and Football. Do not remember the mention of any other sports. Perhaps what Keagan is not saying and really cannot say is that it could appear that KSU has momentum in its athletic department. Maybe, but then these things go through cycles.

stevedaveksu 6 years, 11 months ago

we at would like to enter into a trade with we will trade you, straight up, kellis robinette for this keegan character. let me assure you that kellis will be a giant homer and satiate all of your appitites for fluff pieces. please consider this offer.

Cole Hogan 6 years, 11 months ago

"the Wildcats dominated the Jayhawks on the fields and courts of competition during the 2010-2011 school year."

I DEFFINATELY remember a 90-66 Beatdown of K-state at Allen last year, we lost the second time we played them, but im sorry i dont consider that a beatdown, especially considering we made it farther in the Big 12 tourney (won it), and made it father in the NCAA KEEGAN, im sorry but i MUST disagree with you on this 'beatdown' thing.

Cole Hogan 6 years, 11 months ago

not to mention that when we lost the second time aound in basketball Pullen went OFF for (career high?) 38 points, and couldnt miss.

Get off Keegan

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Sorry but 90-66 IS a beatdown. What would you be saying if the score was reversed? Right, "BEATDOWN". I wish KU fans would take the blinders off and face reality one of these days. Perhaps then we wouldn't be in this position.

stevedaveksu 6 years, 11 months ago

I agree with all the ridiculous butthurt stuff jayhawkcole is saying :thumbsup:

Ray March 6 years, 11 months ago

Aside from football and men's basketball, none of those other sports count. Nobody cares if the women's softball or volleyball teams win. Nobody cares about baseball.

Silly story...

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Actually, silly comment. Just because you don't care doesn't mean a lot of other people don't care. I for one do care and am embarrassed by the current state of affairs at KU. There has been nothing but negativity going on for the past 5 or 6 years and I for one want to see it end. Being competitive in all other sports would certainly go a long way to alleviate some of this negativity. BB can only carry so much of the weight.

rockchalkjjjhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Just another article by Keegan bashing KU. So now that he's done his damage, it won't be long before he writes yet another 'positive' story about Gary Woodland. What exactly is Keegan's obsession with Woodland anyway? There hasn't been someone this bad on so many levels than there is right now. Just another outsider that has successfully pushed the right buttons to move here and make more money that his true talents demand by bashing an locally revered institution that he has absolutely no ties to. And the sad thing is, there is almost assuredly someone out there with great journalistic talent who has been wishing for a job opportunity like the one Keegan half-a$$es and who is unapologetically KU crimson and blue through and through.

rockchalkjjjhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

The error in your statement is this. Keegan watched multiple years go by without even the smallest size of cajones to 'comment' about Perkins the way he routinely 'comments' about others. ...well said on ALL accounts? Good one. Is unapologetic and critical mutually exclusive?

Nicholas Cederlind 6 years, 11 months ago

Honestly, Tom, it's articles like these that simply make no sense. I've never seen someone be so decidedly pro-KU and then so down on KU from week to week throughout the year. This article is reaching, at best - reaching for a reason, any reason, to find a way to be down on KU. In other words, if KU basketball is too good to harp on, let's compare KU sports overall to other schools. And geography? Really? Is there something in the water at TX or KSU? No, but there sure are scholarships, reputations, and other sweet deals for players that are overflowing at those schools beyond their locations. I take back what I said about how this article is reaching, at best. Instead, it's a simple straw man argument. And I love the picture of Pullen at the top. What's his record against us, again? You seem to have left that statistic out...

KU_cynic 6 years, 11 months ago

Why didn't Keegan -- or any of the posts above -- mention former KU AD Lew Perkins? Surely the current state of KU athletics -- the good, the bad, and the ugly -- is attributable to Lew, not recently hired AD Zenger. Perkins and his cronies were paid top dollar to deliver -- and the results are in.

To be fair, perhaps Perkins help lay the foundations for some future success with some new and updated facilities, but rewards in terms of wins-and-losses have yet to follow. Exhibit A is women's basketball, which has not suffered from underpaying the coach, weather, or bad facilities but has yet to deliver anything but mediocre on-court performance.

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

  • infinity

This is why people are reading this article as "anti-KU". Keegan takes the athletic department to task...

...after the head of the athletic department who presided over the teams that brought us to this 1-13 record is no longer here.

Way to go, Tommy boy! Way to put that new AD in his place for... um, ah... being hired after the previous AD was forced to resign... wait, what?

If he wants to truly call out KU athletics, he needs to dive further into the numbers than ONE year against ONE school (who happens to also be at the bottom of the heap in Big 12 athletics).

If Keegan was interested in writing a serious, critical piece about KU sports, then he would have done more than cherrypick facts that he had to know would rile up KU fans when he chose them.

jaybate 6 years, 11 months ago

"Some Conspiracies that May Be Causing KU's Minor Sports to Suffer"

~CIA reviving MK-ULTRA and to see if they can de-pattern an entire university and alumni by exposing them to 24/7 losing for years on end.

~Aliens from the Planet Loser have taken over KUAD and the Man in Black case officer tasked with ridding KU of these extraterrestrials is from MU.

~SecHHS KittySib landed KSU another top secret chem/bio warfare grant to design genetically modified cattle manure that when spread as lawn fertilizer takes away a people's will to excel...and they have been secretly testing it on the KU campus.

~The Campanile is really a pagan Free Mason scuplture that gives off long wave radiation capable of destroying the concentration of young jocks in minor sports.

~Lawrence, Kansas, was ground zero for a test of a new DOD weapon called a mediocrity bomb that triggers substandard performance among low revenue generators, while leaving the buildings standing.

~The neo Post Modern revival orchestrated by NSA mind control researchers has made minor sport mediocrity an inside joke acting as witty counter point to KU basketball excellence, in hopes of collapsing the Father of All Basketball Programs.

~Turner Gill is actually a Manchurian Coach sent to cripple KU sports by Dr. Tom Osborne as payback for all the basketball beatings KU gave NU.

~The Harry Potter series has bread a generation of minor sport athletes that rely way too much on magic.

~The Transformer franchise without Megan Fox's heat has sapped the minor sports of their desires to man-up, or woman-up.

~A nasty rumor going around the internet that Beyonce is as frigid as Mary Tyler Moore' character in Ordinary People, has caused all minor sports athletes, women included, to lose their rhythms.

~US and Pakistani intel guys have decided to stage the next assassination of Osama bin Laden in Lawrence, Kansas, and minor sport athletes are having trouble adapting to kevlar body armor.

~Rumor has it that on 11-11-11 the New Mediocre World Order will announce that KU minor sports are a test case of making Americans subordinate to mediocre privately owned central banking through fiscal mind control, and that Frazier Hall will fall in its own foot print without being hit by anything.

(Note: all fiction. No malice.)

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

You missed one...KSU has a great AD who has the committment of the president to do what is needed to run a solid, fiscally responsible program. Something that KU has been lacking since they hired "our savior", Lew Perkins. Funny thing, we hired Lew to bring in the big bucks, which he did, but on the way he drove the car into the river. Lew Perkins is the reason KU has become a bottom feeder.

AZHawk72 6 years, 11 months ago

I can't believe that we've stooped to "shooting the messenger" due to our pathetic performance against, what should be, an inferior opponent and rival. After twenty-seven years of working for newspapers and thirteen years of teaching high school English, I was reminded repeatedly "why" I walked away from both. My 60s mentality (which Jaybate does a good job of rekindling) often reminds me of my not wanting to be around in my own mid-sixties, but I'm stuck--I'm still here. Oh, I know so many who bitch about how "things used to be" with Hadl, Coan, Zook, Sayers, Douglas, Laverne Smith, Cromwell, and many more. The swimming program dominated, the track team, with Ryan attracting other studs, kicked some serious behinds be it here, Drake, or wherever. However, it's now. Social media is emerging as the best oxymoron since "politically correct."

I always hated school, and I hated teachers even more. I certainly hated people who told me what I didn't want to hear. Somewhere in my junior year after dropping out, doing basic training, and returning to three years of good grades and a couple of degrees, I decided that my teachers were "the bomb", my school was the same, and the cozy stadium just down the hill, and the fieldhouse that made me deaf for days were the best places on earth.

We need to quit turning our backs on what's gone South instead of our preoccupation of the shortcomings of what continues to point North. This just isn't the school I attended for five (no, the Best five years of my life.)

jaybate 6 years, 11 months ago

Ok, I take it all back. Its time to get better across the board. You shamed me into it when you pulled out the 60s, the break for basic and the return.

Greatness is a habit, like everything else.

Someone needs to bring Riggo back to Lawrence to put the spurs to Zenger and the rest of us.

Rock Chalk!

FoCoCoHawk 6 years, 11 months ago

John Riggins is the KU alum I most often quote:

    "Loosen up, baby!"

Benjamin Piehler 6 years, 11 months ago

leave it to KSU to keep track of stuff none of the rest of us are... they count how many times they beat us in a year, we are chasing the next conference title in hoops. We've got our thing, they dont really have one... all the can really do is get excited/release a DVD when they slow us down.

So good for state, I guess? I'm sure admissions are skyrocketing after the performance of their volleyball/rowing teams.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

I just read an article that says that their (KSU) FB season tickets are up by nearly 1000 tickets...where are ours? Last I heard they are substantially down. Its sad that alleged fans like you can only get excited about BB when there are a lot of other sports that exhibit the true nature of college athletics. Denial is a self defense mechanism that you obviously have become very good at.

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

Get off the high horse a--hole.

Unless you care to give a rundown of how these "true nature of college athletics" sports have fared over the past few years.

Because until you can do that, you're just some tool clamoring about needing to pay more attention to other sports, while failing to do so yourself.

I have a really hard time taking the "we need to be better in other sports" argument seriously when the only thing at stake is bragging rights with our in-state rival. I can't think of a stupider reason to "care" about the non-revenue sports.

If you care about non-revenue sports because you enjoy them, then more power to you. There is nothing inherently wrong with volleyball, rowing, etc... Just like there is nothing wrong with not giving two craps about those sports. But we all know, by simple function of the fact that they don't generate revenue and never have a lot of spectators, that most people DON'T really care about non-revenue sports. They are just arrows in the quiver of inter-school bragging rights.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Wow! A very mature response for a 10 year old. LOL

Benjamin Piehler 6 years, 11 months ago

nice... your argument has been reduced to name-calling.

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

Yeah, I guess if you stopped reading after the first 6 words.

But hey, I can't teach people to read.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Actually I don't think you could teach anyone anything. You obviously need some help yourself.

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

Yes, so much less mature than trolling around as a KU "fan".

FoCoCoHawk 6 years, 11 months ago

There are many indices for what make a university great: libraries, endowment associations, independent ratings of graduate programs, number of National Merit Finalist students, professional awards given to professors, etc. These are all quantifiable entities, apt grist for dispassionate number-crunching. A one year, all sport won-loss records against an in-state rival is certainly demonstrative of something, but in terms of enrollment decision-making rates somewhere between tuition/grant availability and the average cost of a pitcher of beer.

No, what makes an alma mater a TRUE soul mother are the qualitative intangibles: things like skinny-dipping at Lone Star Lake instead of studying for finals. Or the tears in your eyes watching beloved colleagues Walk Down The Hill. Or getting goosebumps watching the Rock Chalk cheer at the Phog. Or even having a brief and lucid conversation with the Tan Man. KU and basketball are so inextricably intertwined that they transcend analysis. Mt. Oread is essentially the birthplace of the only true American sport, one that is sweeping the planet right now. Somewhere, someone is "chinning" a basketball, elbows out, looking for a safe outlet pass, tying to be a better teammate. This is the kind a metaphor we need in a post-modern dystopia.

And it's all embodied in that little bird with the goofy grin and the golden shoes.


Miles Nease 6 years, 11 months ago

I hope to God, that we don't waste three or four years on Gill. We will know pretty quickly, if he is the man for the job by the way this team comes out on Sept. 3. If it is another stinker, like last year's NDSU game, the noose is really tight. If Kansas State College comes to Lawrence and administers another beatdown, that would be two years in a row losing to a really bad team at home. I don't see how he survives.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

This will be Gill's second to last year at KU. Then perhaps KU football will move forward again. Gill is like the Ron Prince experiment at simply will not work.

AZHawk72 6 years, 11 months ago

PS. It bothers me that Arizona landed Gabe York, and the first thing he did was call Brandon Ashley to come join him. Watch Arizona's Miller carefully, as he already has USC, UCLA, and Washington cowering a bit. If the 'Hawks think they have an "in" with anyone in the West right now, I wouldn't count on it. Shabazz doesn't even mention us in articles out here, and it appears to be Arizona or UCLA. Good luck, UCLA--you're second tier now. If this is Wooden vs. Olsen, the perception out here is that Miller is Wooden.

jaybate 6 years, 11 months ago

Watch Miller.

Watch Miller follow first Scott Drew, then Thad Matta, then Miller into the Ohio Valley corruption vortex.

AZHawk72 6 years, 11 months ago

PS. It bothers me that Arizona landed Gabe York, and the first thing he did was call Brandon Ashley to come join him. Watch Arizona's Miller carefully, as he already has USC, UCLA, and Washington cowering a bit. If the 'Hawks think they have an "in" with anyone in the West right now, I wouldn't count on it. Shabazz doesn't even mention us in articles out here, and it appears to be Arizona or UCLA. Good luck, UCLA--you're second tier now. If this is Wooden vs. Olsen, the perception out here is that Miller is Wooden.

AZHawk72 6 years, 11 months ago

Oops, sorry about the day-night doubleheader above--oddly, the game was called due to daylight--go figure.

Tuskin 6 years, 11 months ago

Wow, what a skewed comparison between the two schools.

I believe KU beat KSU in cross-country running. Sure, that and other unmentioned sports would left out of KSU's publicity papers on purpose, but why wouldn't a reporter dig any deeper? Too busy?

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

This was head-to-head competition. It is a lot easier to confound the wins and losses when you throw in a bunch of other teams. Nice try though.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

And KSU did this with a fraction of the budget...what does that say about the state of affairs at KU? SAD, VERY SAD!

Ludwig Supraphonic 6 years, 11 months ago

And yet, here you are, arguing for relevance.

Sparko 6 years, 11 months ago

Kansas is a deep red state with so many more problems than sports. I am willing to let Keegan go immediately. This nasty reporting slant has got to go.

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

"Pay attention to me!!!!!!"

Sincerely, squawkhawk KU "fan"

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

So, can anyone help me?

This article seems to have left out Women's Soccer, Softball, Swimming...

So if losing in head-to-head competition is a black eye, what does it mean if a school doesn't even compete in a given sport?

Seems to be a glaring omission from this article, and perhaps part of the reason so many here are getting an anti-KU (or at the very least, a non-favorable slant) from Keegan's piece.

squawkhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

And, unfortunately, when they think of KU they think of ticket scandals and fraud, fat football coaches, awful FB teams, corrupt AD departments, overpaid coaches and so on. Point is, neither school is as good as they think and neither school has the image they really want.

BillSelf4Prez 6 years, 11 months ago

why is this on KUsports? Who cares its just this year and personally i care about mens basketball and football. So KSU can have this one while we cut down the nets in New Orleans and see who's laughing then. They can have their wins in sports no one cares about.

Sam Constance 6 years, 11 months ago

1) The "cherrypicking" (at least as I see it), is harping on a single year and extrapolating meaning about overall athletic department health. Using a single year's worth of results in sports, where results are fleeting and inconsistent from year to year, is misleading at best. If he wanted to make a case for KU's athletic department ineptitude (which is not necessarily a case I would disagree with) then he needs to stop focusing on 2010-11 because of the 1-13 shock value, and focus on a more in-depth set of data.

2) No, he never specifically calls out Zenger. But that's part of the problem--if he's taking a shot at Lew, then what is the point? Lew is gone. Move on. It's no longer news if this is an article intended to blast the previous AD for athletic department ineptitude. Again, I come back to the fact that the intent of this article was to shock people. I would have loved to read a few more scathing articles about Perkins while he was actually the AD

3) I can't speak to the desire to fire Keegan. People are free to not read his articles if they don't want, and the LJWorld is free to fire him if they want. They are clearly happy with his work, so I think it's a bit silly for anyone to be calling for his head with the notion that this article was the "last straw". The article was cheap, outdated and worthless in my opinion. But it wasn't unethical or anything that screams "this man doesn't deserve a job!"

4) Also disagree with those who were calling for the abolishment of non-revenue sports. I have no particular interest in the non-revenue sports, and I always get a kick out of people trying to claim bragging rights about them because I think most people feel the same way I do... until it's time to puff out their chest, in which case non-revenue sports MATTER, dammit!

Non-revenue sports have plenty of value--to the athletes themselves, to the people that DO follow them, and just for the all around notions of hardwork, team-building, and commitment, etc..

thunderjam 6 years, 11 months ago

I'm just thankful the success of my athletic program isn't based on its head-to-head record against Kansas State.

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