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Monday, July 4, 2011

KU hoops coaches ranging far, wide

Self: ‘We’ve had them from all over’

Kansas head coach Bill Self introduces members of his staff during the KU men's basketball banquet Monday, April 11, 2011 at the Holiday Inn Lawrence.

Kansas head coach Bill Self introduces members of his staff during the KU men's basketball banquet Monday, April 11, 2011 at the Holiday Inn Lawrence.

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Bill Self has signed prospects from Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma — as well as the faraway reaches of Canada, Russia, Alaska, Arizona, California, Illinois, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Maryland, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Texas and Washington — in his eight seasons as basketball coach at Kansas University.

He’s proven he’ll go anywhere blue-chippers reside.

“The thing we shouldn’t get too hung up on ... we couldn’t care less where players come from,” Self said.

He and his assistants soon will hit the road for the July 6-15 recruiting evaluation period, then after a short breather, continue the pursuit of prospects July 22-31.

“We do want to recruit the best players in our back yard, obviously. Since we’ve been here, we’ve had years where we’ve had home visits eight hours away and to see Travis (Releford, down the road in Kansas City), too. It doesn’t matter. The best players that fit what you are trying to do is what we go after. We’ve had them from all over,” he added.

College coaches from all over the country will be traveling to AAU events in Indiana, Nevada, New Jersey, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Ohio and other locales this month to scout players in the Class of 2012.

KU will have a minimum of three scholarships to give this school year, four if Thomas Robinson heads to the NBA after his junior campaign.

One scholarship already has been gobbled up by Zach Peters, a 6-foot-9, 235-pound power forward from Prestonwood Christian Academy in Plano, Texas, who is not playing on the AAU circuit this summer.

Here are some other players on KU’s wish list in the Class of 2012. Obviously, there could be others on the list. KU coaches cannot comment on recruiting in accordance with NCAA rules:

• Perry Ellis, 6-8, 220, forward, Wichita Heights: Rivals.com’s No. 19-rated player lists KU, Memphis, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas State, Oklahoma and Wichita State. Ellis has attended several KU games on unofficial visits. He has said he will make up to five official visits this summer and fall.

• Kaleb Tarczewski, 7-0, 220, center, St. Mark’s High, Southborough, Mass.: Rivals.com’s No. 12-rated player made unofficial visits to KU, North Carolina and Arizona in June. He has said KU has recruited him the longest and hardest of any school on his list. He will announce his college choice in August.

• Shabazz Muhammad, 6-5, 190, combo guard, Bishop Gorman High, Las Vegas: The country’s No. 1-rated player, who played in the Jayhawk Invitational in April, has yet to slice a list that includes KU, Arizona, North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Texas, UCLA, UNLV and others.

• Nino Jackson, 6-2, 175, point guard, Ardmore (Okla.) High: Rivals.com’s No. 45-rated player, who has worn KU shorts to various AAU events, has a list of KU, Baylor, Texas, Oklahoma and North Carolina. There are rumors Jackson may attend high school in Las Vegas his senior year.

• J’Mychal Reese, 6-1, 170, point guard, Bryan (Texas) High: Rivals.com’s No. 59-rated player lists KU, Texas, Baylor, Memphis, Oklahoma and others. There has been talk his dad might land an assistant coaching job at Texas A&M or Texas Tech, which would complicate his recruitment.

• Marcus Smart, 6-4, 205, small forward, Marcus High, Flower Mound, Texas: Rivals.com’s No. 24-rated player lists KU, Texas, North Carolina, Oklahoma and others. He recently told Rivals.com that KU, Texas and Carolina were recruiting him the hardest.

• Mitch McGary, 6-10, 250, power forward, Brewster Academy, Wolfeboro, N.H.: Rivals.com’s No. 5-rated player who participated in the Jayhawk Invitational, lists KU, Maryland, UConn, Indiana, Arizona, Purdue, Illinois and many others.

• Landen Lucas, 6-8, 240, power forward, Findlay Prep, Henderson, Nev.: Rivals.com’s No. 134-rated player, who visited KU unofficially in June, lists KU, Arizona, Oregon, Duke, Tennessee, Georgia Tech and others.

• Willie Cauley, 6-10, 220, center, Olathe Northwest: Rivals.com’s No. 41-rated player has heard from KU, North Carolina, Ohio State, Kentucky, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Missouri, Alabama and others.

• Gabe York, 6-2, 170, shooting guard, Lutheran High, Orange, Calif.: Rivals.com’s No. 47-rated player has mentioned KU, Notre Dame, Marquette, Arizona, UConn, UNLV, Louisville and others.

• Robert Upshaw, 6-11, 235, San Joaquin Memorial High, Fresno, Calif.: Rivals.com’s No. 32-rated player, who competed in the Jayhawk Invitational, lists KU, Arizona, Texas, Maryland, USC, UCLA and others.

• Winston Shepard, 6-8, 205, small forward, Findlay Prep, Henderson, Nev.: Rivals.com’s No. 44-rated player, who also played at the Jayhawk Invitational, lists KU, Kentucky, Memphis, Missouri, Texas, Oklahoma, UNLV and others.

• Christian Sanders, 6-3, 170, combo guard, St. Thomas High, Houston: The son of former KU guard Brad Sanders patterns his game after Kirk Hinrich. He made an unofficial visit to KU in June. The unranked player is also considering Colorado, Maryland, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M and others.

• Brandon Ashley, 6-8, 225, power forward, Findlay Prep, Henderson, Nev.: Rivals.com’s No. 14-rated player lists KU, Arizona, Oregon, Stanford, Cal, UCLA, Kentucky, Georgia Tech and others.

• Archie Goodwin, 6-4, 180, shooting guard, Sylvan Hills High, Little Rock, Ark.: Rivals.com’s No. 11-rated player lists KU, Arkansas, Kentucky, Memphis, Baylor, Texas, UConn, Florida and others.

• Adam Woodbury, 7-0, 230, center, East High, Sioux City, Iowa: Rivals.com’s No. 50-rated player lists KU, Iowa, North Carolina, Duke, Texas, Florida, Minnesota and others.

• T.J. Warren, 6-7, 200, small forward, Brewster Academy, Wolfeboro, N.H.: Rivals.com’s No. 36-rated player lists KU, Georgetown, North Carolina State, North Carolina, Tennessee, Duke, Florida and others.

• Rosco Allen, 6-7, 205, power forward, Bishop Gorman, Las Vegas: Rivals.com’s No. 75-rated player lists KU, North Carolina, Oregon, Oregon State, Arizona State and others.

• Danuel House, 6-7, 195, small forward, Hightower High, Missouri City, Texas: Rivals.com’s No. 26-rated player lists KU, Missouri, Duke, North Carolina, Colorado, Louisville and others.

• Shaquille Cleare, 6-9, 285, center, Village School, Houston: Rivals.com’s No. 29-rated player lists KU, Maryland, Baylor, Florida, Arizona, Arkansas, Texas, Texas A&M and others.

Comments

Kevin Studer 3 years, 2 months ago

I think many KU fans are expecting at least one of the "developmental" signees for 2011 to see the writing on the wall and transfer out after their first year. It wouldn't be the first time that a big mediocre recruiting class has had a transfer or two out under Self.

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ClydeTurnbuckle 3 years, 2 months ago

But we want to be signing these 2012 guys this Fall and Spring. If the developmental guys don't transfer until after the season, it may not be in time to clear up a scholly for one of these studs.

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jhawktop 3 years, 2 months ago

Well if history tells us anything, the players we really want won't decide until May anyway.

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kushaw 3 years, 2 months ago

Except for all of the "Early Commits" in the 2011 class.

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Mike Bratisax 3 years, 2 months ago

even some of the shaw..I remain cautionally optimistic until they sign their name.

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kushaw 3 years, 2 months ago

Clyde Turnbuckle: Scholarships are 1 year renewable contracts. It's at the discretion of the Head coach, staff, and athletic director whether or not they truly want to renew that scholarship and make it binding by both the player and the institution.

What most people don't understand is that the scholarship is good for the academic portion for up to 4 years. The athletic portion of the scholarship is only good for 1 year and can be taken away at anytime by the Head Coach and Athletic Director. The tricky part is that most instituitions don't just take away the scholarship because that would start presenting a "Black Eye" in the eyes of recruits and the media.

With all of that said, it does not matter that Tharpe, McLemore, Traylor, Young, Anderson, and Lindsay all have scholarships for this upcoming season. If Bill Self wants or needs 1, 2, or 3 of those scholarships than he'll basically "Overrecruit" and in a politically correct manner force those individuals to transfer to another school.

"Force" may be a cruel word, but Self will have an end of the year meeting with all of the players and talk about their future within the program................things they need to work on, how to get better, summer weightlifting, etc etc. If Self really needs a schollie for a blue chipper than he'll bascially tell a player on the current roster that it may be adviseable to pursue their career somewhere else.

That player will have every opportunity to compete for a position, but currently we are recruiting some other players to take your place. Your scholarship is good here if you want to stay at KU, but if you want to play basketball it may be adviseable to pursue another school. And of course, you'll get the , "We'll help any way we can to help you find a new place to further your basketball career."

In other words, turnbuckle, there will always be time for the 2012 and 2013 classes if Self needs or wants a scholarship for those recruits. The only problem is that you have to present it in a manner that doesn't look like you're forcing players out of your program.

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ClydeTurnbuckle 3 years, 2 months ago

Okay, I get what you're saying. And I didn't know about the academic/athletic distinction in a scholarship. Although it may still be possible to bring in a great class, not having the schollies immediately available makes it harder and shadier. We will have to convince some highly sought after guys not only to come to KU, but to take our word for it that we will find a schollie for them somehow. That's some shaky ground to be standing on while trying to reel in a big fish. Also, "forcing" guys out of your program hurts your reputation with future recruits.

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kushaw 3 years, 2 months ago

Exactly! Welcome to the wonderful world of College Basketball and College Football.

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Mike Bratisax 3 years, 2 months ago

Great summation. But you do not want to be known as a coach who rescinds scholarships. I think the entire Selby affair could be in the minds of some top recruits although if they take the time to see how HCBS handled the rest of his top recruits..they should not need to worry. Personally, I wish he would have saved a few but his track record has proven he knows what he is doing.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

kushaw,

Given that scholarships are, as you say, 1-year contracts, are players whose contracts are not extended allowed to transfer and play immediately at any D1 school that would want them?

And if they are not allowed to transfer and play immediately, shouldn't they be?

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kushaw 3 years, 2 months ago

Jaybate, That's why the rule is suspect in the first place. Coaches can go from place to place without penalty (Unless there is a buyout situation of course).

     Transfer rules vary from conference to conference, but the BCS conferences don't allow you to transfer within the conference without a major penalty of sitting out at least 1 year. I'm okay with this rule because it does relieve tension between your step brother and sisters within the conference.   It happens very rarely, but does happen on occassion.

    If you are transferring outside of the conference and to another D-I conference the penalty is to sit out a year.  Most players get around that rule these days by red-shirting a year and then having their full elgibility available after that.

   However, you are seeing more and more D-I transfers not lose elgibility because of the "Hardship Rule"  because of a sick family member.  The NCAA has to give the "OK"  for you not to lose that 1 year elbibility and be able to play right away.  The NCAA is taking a harder stance on these cases as well.

With all of that said, Jaybate, to answer your last question, I think it's a depends on the situation. I understand that player/Coach relationships don't always work, but if the NCAA just opens it up, it would be a cattle call of slimey recruiting, runners, and underground pimps stealing players away from other instituitions. We definitely don't want that going on.

However, in certain situatons where a coach bails at the last minute to leave for another institution and the current player(s) don't feel right about the new hire........I firmly believe that players should be able to transfer without penalty anywhere in the country except within your own conference.

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lee3022 3 years, 2 months ago

The thing is, coach has playing time right away for the top guys. TT will be gone and likely Thomas as well leaving two big holes but coming back will be a very strong team and bench just itching for a couple or three stars.

Kaleb and Perry are guys you hope 'get it' and sign this fall. Shabazz might be sincere about KU and that would be a huge add. But in any case coach will find guys who he can coach and turn into NBA ready players in three years.

The NBA CBA is likely to change the landscape over the one and done rule. Perhaps by this time next year we will know.

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SEsco10 3 years, 2 months ago

I think they take out the 1 & done rule in the NBA so KU might just get 1 or 2 of these guys cause I'm sure every player in top 1245 thinks they are Kobe Bryant.

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SEsco10 3 years, 2 months ago

Also that's a bad pix of coach and his tupee

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

ad astra per Martius Insania

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Its the Fourth of July and I just got tired of my desktop wall paper.

Here are the two new ones I created. :-)

http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/jaybates-gallery-of-college-basketball-paintograph/

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DDDHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Wow, jaybate! What a great gallery you have created! Very cool.

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Make_Ur_Free_Throws 3 years, 2 months ago

You have some inspired work here!!! A writer AND an artist! This just made my 4th! Thank you for sharing it!

Rock Chalk!

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

You are all very kind. Thx.

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PVJayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I did not know The EXTReme Poster was so artistic but I am not surprised. Jaybate seems to have an abundance of creativity.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Ah, you are the XTReme Flatterer today. Thank you.

But I can only try to portray beauty, not be beautiful, my polyvalent Amelie.

Hope your are somewhere with your Cary Grant and fire works are going off beyond your terrace.

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Tony Bandle 3 years, 2 months ago

First of all, thanks Gary for a great article. This summary of recruiting potentials will be printed out and used for reference by me for the next year or so.

Second, SEsco10, it's "toupee", but as the unofficial fashion tracker of HCBS's cranium carpet, I totally agree....wrong angle and bad lighting ends up looking like a chipmunk taking a nap on his noggin.

Third, it would appear that Perry, Nino and Kaleb are our best bets...then again, who the heck really knows for sure, but there would certainly be PT at point guard, power forwrad and center, although if everyone that can stay do stay, the guard positions could be a battle!!

Fourth,, Happy Fourth of July to all. As my wonderful departed Uncle Don usd to say...drink a Fifth on the Fourth [ Uncle Don lived to almost 90 and actually didn't drink!!]

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Dan Pawlowski 3 years, 2 months ago

+1. RIP for all the Uncle Don's out there.

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PVJayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Oak, did you see my comments a few stories back?

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Tony Bandle 3 years, 2 months ago

PVJ..I just went back. Thanks for your thoughts. I truly think you all helped me cheat death because he got confused by so many thoughts and prayers...thank you so much. Also, you have, as usual brought up an inciteful comment.

Maybe Kansas has too much success during the regular season. Maybe if the past coaching staffs lost a few more games and were forced to think outside their "game day box" they would have been more prepared for the inevitable unexpectedness of tournament play?

Maybe we should indeed play a much more challenging schedule that would not only benefit the players, but the coaching staff also?

HMMMMMM....very interesting!!!

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Oak,

Well, I think you are far enough out of jeopardy for me to come clean. In fact, I met with death during that perilous period of your life. Without putting too fine a point on things, I intercepted him a Starbucks near your place just as he was about to pay you a visit. I asked him to wait and read a post I said I was thinking of leaving on a thread at that time. It was a 120,000 word post, the only novel length one I have ever tried. He said he did not have time to read it; that he had an appointment to take someone, an architect, he said. I said he was less than a Satan if, he did not read my post entitled "Some Things You Can Do in Hell to Have Fun, If There Were a Temporary Mistake Made Regarding Your Proper Destination, Even Though Your Luggage Made It To Heaven." It had a very long title to foreshadow its very long length.

Anyway, he thought about it, so I decided to cement the deal by saying, "Its about time you Satan-up and read this post, because if you don't, there are going to be people in hell have a really good time." I knew this would peeve him no end. Sure enough, he began reading the longest post I've ever written, it was Ulysses long. It was Finnegan's Wake Long. It was Gravity's Rainbow long. It was Infinite Jest long. It was biblical long.

It turns out Satan is a very poor reader, never actually made it out of the third grade and reads at a first grade level. Well, the combination of my usual long windedness stretched to its nth degree, plus Satan's poor reading skills, caused him to delay several days past his appointment with you with you. And as it turns out, in the fine print of Hell's Articles of Incorporation, its an LLC if I recall correctly, well, it turns out that if Satan misses an appointment, he has to wait a hundred years to make the next call.

You owe me one.

I hope I never have to collect. :-)

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Tony Bandle 3 years, 2 months ago

JB...if I'm ever in an alley fight with any creatures living or dead, I want you taking my back...thanks!!

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Mike Barnhart 3 years, 2 months ago

So you're saying he will recruit anywhere and right now he's recruiting everyone. Well done! Who says the 4th of July's a slow news day?

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Mike Kendall 3 years, 2 months ago

"There's no place like home-----there's no place like home------there's no place like home------KANSAS, that is!

Reel them 'em, coach Self. Gary, thanks for the comprehensive list. Nice job! Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

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Woody Cragg 3 years, 2 months ago

These guys are like crap in the pasture...everywhere.

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Chad Sandwell 3 years, 2 months ago

Adam Woodbury has already been offered by Ohio State. The kid can't shoot free throws a lick though. went something like 2-19 one game this year....a skinny kid who needs to muscle up, but a legitimate footer averaged 19-12 his junior year. Rumors up here have him pretty strong on Iowa though. Led his team to 2 straight trips to the state tournament!

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ClydeTurnbuckle 3 years, 2 months ago

Why is this year's class so big? I know that KU is on the long list of every high recruit (and we usually end up playing second fiddle), but now we have no chance of bringing in an extraordinary class in 2012. It must be hard for Self to work so hard on the recruiting trail, going after so many guys, knowing that he is handcuffed by how few schollies he has to give. We will definitely get a couple quality guys, but the numbers just aren't right. Nino Jackson is in the bag. Perry Ellis is probably going to end up here. That only leaves one. Can you imagine having to turn away Shabazz or Mitch McGary because we didn't have room for them? I would rather suffer one "down year" (like being a seven seed in the tournament) and have a chance at getting back to being a title contending powerhouse than resign ourselves to just making sure that we stay in the top ten of fifteen for the next few seasons.

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mikehawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Ok, so I am old school, and proud of the fact each day I get older. With that out the way, you have to land Perry Ellis. Great Kansas players are few, and we need not take them for granted, becoming all a twitter (told you I was old school) over guys from cool sounding places with cool sounding names. Even if we don't lose Mr. Robinson next year, add two great recruits, one of them being Ellis, and we would have a solid team to build upon. And by the way, we WILL lose Thomas next year barring some type of serious injury. So that is three. Or is it four? We are doing fine. I think a shorter bench isn't a bad problem for this team, and maybe next year as well. I love depth, but maybe we've had a tad bit too much. Changes in OAD and all bets are off. That would be a game changer for everyone, depending on the nature of the change. If you have to stay three years, guys might like to go where they can be The Man for three years, versus going to a school that is on TV to wide audiences two three times per week and you have to share the stage.

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KUfanInFlorida 3 years, 2 months ago

I like our upcoming recruiting class, but I have to agree with some people on here. I said it before and I say it again. Why did Bill Self gave scholarship to Young and Lindsay? I can understand that it's a nice story and everyone deserves a chance, but I think we have a good chance landing McGary, Shabazz, Ellis, Tarzewski and Jackson and many more. That's where extra scholarships come into play, but I heard some people say that we'll end up having a transfer or two, so hopefully it's not going to turn away any talented recruits.

Also, I hear a number of people say that we don't need one and dones, but it's a player's choice. I mean, Harrison Barnes stayed at Carolina instead of jumping in the ocean like Selby did.

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Tony Bandle 3 years, 2 months ago

If you recruit them, the schollies will come. {paraphrasing from "The Field of Dreams".}

Look at the history of our transfers. There will be scholarships available as required. That's the least of my worries...you've got to get the kids to come here first.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

"In the Age of XTReme Basketball Quantation, You Gots to Have Lineal Frickin' Density, Man:"

Who cares if someone is a footer now, if 6'8" and 245lb. rip-outs can foul them into the next dimension and so stop their effectiveness?

Who cares if a point guard is long and athletic, if an opposing, wide-body point guard can muscle him out of his balletic moves?

Length, by itself, means less than it used to.

Athleticism, by itself, means less than it used to.

Talent and skill mean next to nothing...especially when the whistles recede deep into the jaws of whistle swallowing, Alien Referees.

How is a thread rat to understand what a player can really bring to a team in the XTReme Era?

The traditional response is in our sport culture to such uncertainty is "quantation," i.e., a new statistic.

In the quasi ideological embrace of rational empiricism, as we remain, the inevitable default is QA (quantitative analysis).

Alas, contemporary basketball, yea, all sports today, really, are in a baroque age of QA. Our own beloved Jayhawk, Bill James is at least partly responsible for this era.

Put biblically, in the beginning, there was Bill, and Bill begat many many many QA offspring, and there was a great flood of statistics and the likes of KenPom gathered up the statistics two at a time and brought them inside their desktops and bread them to populate the world with compound algorithmic models lacking global parametric significance, and yea, it was good for clicks.

Well, jaybate wants to seat at the plastic-pocket-pen-holder party at long last. To wit...

Shaquille Cleare offers the most basketball player per inch in this group at 3.52 pounds/inch.

Compare Shaq Cleare with Danuel House at a mere 2.47 pounds/inch.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Cleare is a flipping Groupon special (note: a flashing green light special for those over 50 and lacking a connectivity monkey on their backs) in terms of quantity of basketball player per inch.

Shaq Cleare is much the better deal in terms of quantity of player. Its a quantified fact. It may not be statistically significant, pal, but it is a fact!

Next, Kaleb Tarczewski, who seems pretty big, in the old fashioned sense of length, is really mid pack in new terms of XTReme Basketball Quantation at 2.62 pounds/inch.

Shabazz Muhammad, at 6-5, 190, may pack a big rep based on the obsolete notions of length and athleticism coupled with skills, but in the XTReme Game he is just another quantitative tweener. He measures only 2.48 pounds/inch. This is less than Tarczewski!

What is Self doing recruiting Shabazz and Kaleb?

Doesn't he get that in the XTReme Age of baroque statistics, he's got to respect pounds/inch?

Why does Self keep doing Hudy favors by wanting to give Hudy piano wires to work with? Any Assistant AD of performance management, or whatever handle they hung on her, can get weight gain on 98 pound weaklings like Shabazz and Kaleb? Lets see Andrea "I Like Lean Muscle Mass" Hudy hand 50 on Shaq Cleare!

No, wait, that is so Ought Decade Think!

Let's see the Hude-Woman hang a 30% increase in pounds/inch on Shaq Cleare!

Another thing that happens in the XTReme Era of Baroque Basketball Statistics and Other Quantations is the catch naming of stats.

Even I, jaybate, have partaken previously by naming the ratio of strips to TOs the "Disruption Stat."

So what do we call the pounds/lineal inch stat for XTReme Basketball players and recruits? What does that really signify conceptually?

Ah, I've got it!

Linear Density!

See density is the mass of a unit volume. But we're not talking unit volume with pounds/inch. We are talking mass per unit length.

Man, that Shaq Cleare has got a honking linear density of 3.52 pounds/inch!

Watch out for that Shabazz! His linear density of only 2.48 pounds/inch makes him very risky!

What's that you say? Shabazz has talent?

What is talent?

Talent can't be quantized, man!

Talent and skill are blasphemy in the quasi religion of XTReme Basketball Quantation.

You got to have Lineal Frickin' Density, man, or you ain't shiz anymore.

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kushaw 3 years, 2 months ago

IMO these are the recruits I would like to see in Jayhawk uniforms based on the current schollies available (3):

Peters Ellis Tarc

If T-Rob leaves for the NBA next year that opens up another schoolie (4 total):

JMychal Reese-He is the guard of the future for the Jayhawks IMO

If there is 1 transfer within the program next year (5 total)

Mitch McGary-Kid is a freakin stud-Just hope he doesn't turn out like Josh McRoberts

If there is 2 transfers within the program next year (6 total)

Christian Sanders-Kid can stroke it.

Note: I love Nino, but I'm not liking his wishy/washy back and forth with his list of schools. Now, that could be on Self's end as well so I'm going to give Nino benefit of the doubt.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

P.S.: Another word for low lineal density is skinny and another word for high lineal density is fat. But shoosh! Don't tell anyone. It takes away the magic of the numbers.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

ralster,

Good points. Along with their stud-builds, I look at RR and Chalmers and what I see are 6'2" guys with short necks, which means they play like most guys 6'4", and they also had these awesomely long arms, which gave them wing spans like guys 6'4" to 6'5" tall. And they had all this in those incredibly muscular, yet agile and flexible bodies.

Speaking only of defense, I believe they were the greatest defensive tandem at guard in the history of D1 basketball. The only other tandem that was as good was comprised of Quin Buckner and Bobby Wilkerson on the '76 Indiana NC team. Wilkerson was 6'7" so he took away the outside and inside shots in a way that Chalmer's could not do. Buckner was stronger than RR. But RR and Chalmers were both quicker than Buckner and Wilkerson. And both were better anticipators than Wilkerson. All four were about a wash at keeping their men in front of them and at help defense. Basically both were superb tandems each solid as rocks fundamentally, and each with some edges.

I had a feeling were not going to see their like again, maybe ever, in the same way that there has never been another pair as good as Buckner and Wilkerson either.

Great defensive tandems are rare at guard, because coaches are often willing to give up a great defender at one slot to get a scorer, and put the defensive emphasis inside to back up the weaker defender.

But when great defensive coaches have MUA scorers at 2 of the 3,4 and 5 positions, and opt for maximum defense out of the 1 and 2 spots, it is a rare magnificience to behold.

Scorers are fun to watch rip an opponent.

But great defenders like RR/MC and QB/BW simply apply so much pressure for so long that the opponent cracks wide open.

I truly believe TT and EJ, if they are made a tandem, could become a great, great defensive tandem, if TT finally has grown accustomed to contact, and if EJ has taken his concentration to the next level. But equaling RR and MC is a huge mountain to climb.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Erratum: "...in the same way that there have never been another pair as good as Buckner and Wilkerson at IU either."

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Jeeveshawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I personally don't have any worries about 2013. We could potentially still have Naadir, Elija, bmc, Relford, Anderson, Traylor and Withey. We don't have to worry about a big recruiting class. Although I would like to have a larger big man with more speed & skill than Withey. like kaleb or mitch.

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kushaw 3 years, 2 months ago

I know this isn't probably the best comparison, but I was thinking about it today and wanted to share. I know there seems to be a lot of question marks for the 2011-2012 Jayhawks, but I truly believe TT, EJ, Relly, and T-Rob will be ready to take their careers to the next level.

I remember in 2001 during the Sweet 16 in which Frank Williams of Illinois (Self's Team) completely manhandled Kirk Hinrich. Hinrich at times looked so shaken with Willimas guarding him that it looked like Hinrich didn't even want to be on the basketball court.

I also remember during that summer after that Sweet 16 loss to Ilinois that there was a lot of talk on whether or not Boschee and Hinrich could handle the duties in the backcourt. I know Aaron Miles coming in that next season certainly helped, but we all know how that backcourt ended up doing over the next two years.

I kind of get the feeling that TT, EJ, and Relly (Hopefully Tharpe can handle 10-14 minutes of Point guard duties) feel like they all have something to prove. I'm really excited about this squad. It's all about Confidence, Confidence, Confidence!

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Tony Bandle 3 years, 2 months ago

Zach Peters, not that it actually fits him but I've always been partial to the canary yellow 1969 Lotus Europa my design instructor owned. He was a total a-hole but he had great taste in cars!!

This must truly be the dog days of summer if we've gone almost three days without a new basketball article to post about.

My estimates on landing the above recruits based on my visit to Las Vegas: Perry - 2/1 [Eventually does the right thing and stays home] Kaleb - 3/1 [Showing your Mom the campus is a good thing...for the campus!!] Nino - Even money [ He's already here in spirit] Shabazz - 100/1 - [Sorry, this kid has Kentucky Blue written all over him]

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kushaw 3 years, 2 months ago

I like the odds, but I'm going with two different shades of blue in regards to Bazz.............UCLA or Zona.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Lotus Europa--the greatest looking car that required maintenance the moment the last bolt was tightened at the factory.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

kushaw,

Good links. "e couldn't play dead" has to go into the KU Basketball Quote Hall of Fame on a first ballot along with Larry Brown's "They couldn't guard their own shadows."

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Keith Kienzle 3 years, 2 months ago

Sooooo slooooooooooooow...............

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Tony Bandle 3 years, 2 months ago

WOW!! Over 3 1/2 days with nothing new on the BBall front. Let's start our own string.

Question: In 2008 NCAA Championship Game, if John Calipari was coaching Kansas and Bill Self was coaching Memphis, who would have won?

Question: Should the football Jayhawks run the Wishbone, then we could get our deepest strength on the field at the same time and we wouldn't need a true quarterback...since we don't seem to have one anyway?

Question: With all that exercise equipment, can Lew Perkins now touch his toes?

Question: In their primes, one on one, if Michael Jordan tried to drive and dunk over Wilt Chamberlain, what would have happened?

Question; If you were marooned on a desert island who would you rather have with you..the ugliest woman doctor in the world or Scarlett Johannson?

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FoCoCoHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

1: Bill Self on free throws at the end 2: They should run a new variation--the Hawkbone...laterals EVERYWHERE. 3. Lew only needs to touch Bernie's toes. 4. MJ would either break an arm or become a baseball player. 5. The doctor...but only for her satellite phone.

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Jeeveshawk 3 years, 2 months ago

  1. Memphis
  2. idk
  3. I doubt it.
  4. Wilt would have rejected Michael very cleanly. but th reffs would probably bail out MJ and send him to the ft line

  5. the doctor.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

  1. KU, because KU, even full of functional illiterates could beat Memphisto.

  2. KU should run the Greater Trochanter formation, because it is greater.

  3. No, because it turns out Lew had to return his toes along with the exercise equipment.

  4. MJ would have had his head pounded so far down his tongue would have been sticking out his sphincter.

  5. Dr. Johannson, I presume?

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Who should move to the 2? TT or EJ? Or should EJ play another year of backup?

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Keith Kienzle 3 years, 2 months ago

Start with Tyshawn at 1, EJ at 2 for pre-conference, and see if the A:TO stays consistent every night for Tyshawn. If it doesn't, it'd be time to move Tyshawn to the 2.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Who replaced Kyle Keller? Hinson? Is Hinson the new most overqualified Director of Basketball Operations in history?

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Since Coach Consonants is likely to retire the season, or two, which KU assistant would you most like to see take over the Duke program and put a stop to its cheap shotting ways?

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Keith Kienzle 3 years, 2 months ago

Hating on Duke is half the fun of college basketball. I would never want any of our guys to go there. I want it to be inherited by one of Coach K's rat-troll children, preferably Wojo, but probably Dawkins or Capel. Hope not Capel, he's one of the few ones I can stomach.

That being said, Coach K has pulled his firery hell throne up through a crevice in Chapel Hill and I think he's aiming for eternity, not 2 more years.

I'd be sad to see any of our guys leave, because I think the fraternal nature of Self's coaching staff makes it fun for all of them.

If you put a gun to my head and made me choose, I'd choose Dooley, because he'd probably go Fazekas on some rich entitled Dukeys, to the utter joy of everyone not named Joe Dooley.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Coach K has pulled his firery hell throne up through a crevice in Chapel Hill and I think he's aiming for eternity, not 2 more years"

PHOF!

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FoCoCoHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Who let the dogs out?

Ruth? Ruth?

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

The dogs, of course. They've developed opposed thumbs and stock in central banks.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Will Frank Martin be fired at KSU after this season?

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Wouldn't it be great for some students to mash together a video interview of Frank Martin by Bert? Then show it on the scoreboard at the next KU beat down of KSU!

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

If Clark Kellogg and Dick Vitale appeared on Jeopardy, which one would win?

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Keith Kienzle 3 years, 2 months ago

Neither, Trebek would quit on the set.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Which Rock Diva, or movie actress would you most like to have become a KU fan that attends KU games semi-regularly?

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FoCoCoHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Jennifer Lopez...and she would ALWAYS have an excellent seat.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Whitney Houston before coke.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Can someone please explain why Naismith's Rules are not yet in Allen Field House, where they belong?

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FoCoCoHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

If you could be anybody you wanted to be, what position would you play and would you commit to improving your transition defense?

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

I would expand the game from five on a team to six and the new sixth position would be "the transition man" and I would work hard to improve my transition defense and offense since that would all I would be allowed top do.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Between Bill Mayer and Chuck Woodling, which would you like to have be a talking head in a documentary about all the violations at UMass, Memphis, and eventually UK that John Calipari has not been responsible for, and why?

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Given Jim Calhoun's personality, which is more likely to have attracted DDaniels to UConn, charisma, or perks?

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Since there have been no stories by the pros on this website for several days, which is more likely (and why?):

a) Tom has gone to a fat farm to get ready to do a first person, George Plimpton style book about attending KU boot camp entitled "Paper Jayhawk;"

b) Bedore ghost wrote all the copy for everyone and Bedore took the week off to watch Transformers: Dark of the Moon repeatedly;

c) Tom, Gary, JNewell and Matt, went to the Bird for pops, found a tear in the universe and are now somewhere across the galaxy trying to phone home to their wives;

d) the whole staff went skinny dipping with CBernie, but she stood them up and now they are all paralysed with self consciousness at a Federal reservoir near by.

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Jeeveshawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Normally i would say A but i personally know Tom Keegan and I know that he is not at a fat camp, so i would have to go with B.

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FoCoCoHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Why do we drive on a parkway and park in a driveway? Why does my nose run and my feet smell? And why would anyone need a hot water heater?

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Why do we drive on a parkway and park in a driveway? The first director of Federal Highway Traffic Safety Administration was dyslexic.

Why does my nose run and my feet smell? A stinky nose is too terrible to contemplate. The thought of feet running beyond my control shake the foundations of my universe.

And why would anyone need a hot water heater?

You got me there. :-)

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FoCoCoHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Finally (mebbe): If a man-and-a-half and a horse-and-a-half can build a house-and-a-half in a day and a half, how long would it take a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kick the seeds out of a cucumber?

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Still no Christian walking on and part of the roster.

Looks bad for Christian.

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FoCoCoHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

All the walk-on Christians go out for water polo.

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Tony Bandle 3 years, 2 months ago

Maybe he's looking for a team nicknamed the Lions.....or the Gladiators??

Quick, LJW, post something...anything!! This string has gone from amusingly odd to downright weird!!!! :)

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

"Jeter or Ernie, Not Jeter or Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle"

Yes, this is a basketball web page, but sometimes certain milestones outside my beloved basketball, the greatest game ever invented, merit comment. One of those times is when a baseball player reaches 3000 hits and is compared with Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle in a national newspaper.

USA Today front-paged this: "How Will Yanks Jeter Rank?"

Was Jeter better than Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, and Mantle? Or was he only better than Whitey Ford and Yogi Berra?

Huh? Talk about inflation in judging greatness!

Jeet is a great player the way George Brett was a great player, the way Robin Yount was a great player, the way Ernie Banks was a great player.

But comparing Jeter to Ruth, who outhit and out slugged him on a per game played basis, despite being a drunk down the stretch is crazy.

Calling him better than Gehrig, who probably outhit and out RBIed him on a per game basis, and who had his career cut short by ALS, is goofy too.

Calling him better than DiMaggio seems a stretch to me, but I've never really studied Joe's per game numbers, so I can't say for sure. I just know there are a few generations of Italian long shoreman in NYC and San Francisco that would be willing to question the validity of that proposition with baseball bats.

Calling him better than Mantle makes the classic mistake of saying that because Jeter played healthy longer he was better. Anyone who is not hygrocephallic and saw both play would rather have a healthy Mickey Mantle in center field than a healthy Derek Jeter at short stop.

Don Mattingly said Jeter has been better than all of the Yankee greats, but Mattingly's was the first of the modern generation to labor in the long shadows of the old greats and resent it mightily. Plus Matt was always queer for batting average and total hits, because he lacked much HR mojo. So: Don Mattingly's judgement on this is clouded by self interest. If Jeter were elevated to the best, because of his BA and total hits, then historical revisionists could say Mattingly was the second greatest Yankee behind Jeter. Ruth, they could say, was just a fat man hitting a juiced ball, while juiced. Gehrig was not the luckiest man on the face of the earth and RBIs are overrated as a statistic. DiMaggio was not really one of the greatest hitters the game has seen, the longest hitting streak doesn't matter and graceful counts for zip. And Mantle, well, he was nothing but a drunk, Okie cracker that just happened to cover center field like a gazelle, steal bases like a speed merchant, and lash tape measure shots even on two bad legs.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

"The question isn't "what are we going to do," the question is "what aren't we going to do?" --Ferris Bueller

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

IMHO, Derek Jeter obviously couldn't hold the jocks of Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle.

But he probably has been a considerably more dominant player at his position, than Ford and Berra were at theirs.

The only real question about Derek Jeter is: has Jeter been a better shortstop than Ernie Banks?

Its close offensively.

Banks hit 512 homeruns and 1636 RBIs. Jeter hit 236 home runs and 1157 RBIs.

Banks' BA was only .276. Jeter's BA has so far been a sparkling .312.

To this point, you get power with Ernie and average with Derek.

Which is better--power or average--in a shortstop?

Banks On Base Plus Slugging % was .830. Jeter's was .832.

So: It turns out in total bases it is a wash between Banks' power and Jeter's average.

But in terms of runs scored plus runs batted in, the most important offensive stat in baseball, IMHO, it is also very close.

Banks' runs plus rbis/game is 2941/2528, or 1.16 total runs/game.

Jeter's runs plus rbis/game is 2882/2360, or 1.22 total runs/game.

So it seems Jeter has a slight edge over Banks, but for an indexing issue.

The indexing issue is: Banks played for the long lousy Cubs and Jeter for the usually stacked Yankees.

So: the decisive question in the comparison, offensively speaking, is: could Derek Jeter have come close to Bank's 1.16 total runs/game with the lowly Cubs, since we know Banks would easily have matched Jeter's 1.22 on a team with as much talent and hitting as the Yankees have had in Jeter's career?

The common sense answer is almost certainly not, but it is very difficult to index for what did not happen.

We live in the done, not the not-done.

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jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

So, offensively, give a slight edge to Derek Jeter over Banks, with a strong suspicion Ernie would have kicked Derek's ass were they able to switch places.

On defense, Jeter's fielding percentage is .977.

Banks' fielding percentage is .986.

Slight edge to Ernie in fielding.

What is the most important contribution of a short stop?

Fielding.

So: I say Banks is slightly better than Jeter in all time terms.

And I say USA Today's writers need to go to confession, or to Temple, or Sunday school, and do some soul searching about comparing Jeter with Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle.

He's a great player, but not an all-timer, not the stuff legends are made of.

Baseball has a legacy.

Respect it.

Some have and will join these early greats. Josh Gibson and Satchel Page were finally recognized to be among them to start with. DiMaggio, Mantle and Mays and Koufax did. Nolan Ryan did. Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds have most recently, though their accomplishments may be undone by the steroid issue.

But not Derek Jeter. He is only a little better than Robin Yount and a hair shy of my beloved Ernie Banks.

But isn't this high enough praise--to be considered along side Banks and Yount--two of the great ones?

My god!

Can't we keep things rationally indexed even in baseball?

Must the morally and scientifically bankrupt decisions to index away rampant inflation and obscene levels of unemployment by an oligarchy apparently trying to steal most of the assets of America worth owning without the people noticing the damage their thefts are inflicting on ordinary Americans...must those decisions spill over into baseball, too?

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FoCoCoHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

My standard Derek Jeter comment: "Hell, he's not even the best shortstop on the Yankees right now."

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Tony Bandle 3 years, 2 months ago

Regarding Ruth and Jeter...just compare their won/loss records as starting pitchers....that always ends every discussion in Ruth's favor!!!

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bennybob 3 years, 2 months ago

Mitch Mcgary is a for sure OAD and a guy I would want to stay away from. Our front court is so thin we can't be patching it again next year.

Kalab Tarczewski and Perry Ellis will give us our front court for the next 3 years and should be the highest priority. Zach peters adds depth to the front court and puts us in a good situation to recruit Julius Randle next year.

Nino jackson appears to be a lock right now, so if we add one more quality guard we've got the makings of a top 3 class this year if things fall right.

Land Randle and the Harrison Twins and we'd have the top class in '13

I got on self harder than anybody for the '11 class, but i do give credit where credit is due, Self definetly has us in a good position for the next two classes, here's hoping he can close.

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