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Sunday, July 3, 2011

KU coach Self: Nix one-and-done rule

Kansas head coach coach Bill Self visits with reporters after a press conference Tuesday, March 29, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse. Self was asked about this year's tournament, his players and thoughts on next year's roster.

Kansas head coach coach Bill Self visits with reporters after a press conference Tuesday, March 29, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse. Self was asked about this year's tournament, his players and thoughts on next year's roster.

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If Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self had his way, the NBA’s next collective bargaining agreement would include an alteration of the so-called “one-and-done rule.”

It’s the rule that requires players to be at least 19 years old and one year removed from high school before they can enter the NBA Draft. This rule has led to a batch of players, including KU’s Xavier Henry and Josh Selby, attending college one year, then bolting for the pros.

“I’d say leave (for NBA) out of high school or stay three years in college,” said Self, who would settle for a two-year minimum stay on campus for those who don’t declare for the draft following high school graduation.

“I don’t like what is in place now. It’s not because we’ve had two one-and-dones the last two years. Some people have had more. I don’t think what we have is fair to the kid. We say, ‘Come here to get a degree and help us win, and in turn, when the time is right, we’ll support any decision you make.’ That’s what we’ll say whether it’s one year or two years. The mind-set some kids have coming in is they can be a one-and-done guy. I can understand that. It’s the landscape of where we live and what we do, but it’s not the way it should be.

“It should be kids go to school first, and after they go to school and the time is right, they should be able to jump. I think making them stay a minimum of two would definitely help that cause.”

Self doesn’t begrudge those rare players with NBA-ready bodies and skills the right to make millions of dollars in lieu of college.

“I wish there was some committee saying, ‘OK, if this kid is thought to be a certain pick, then he would be allowed to go,’” Self said. “There wouldn’t be bad decisions. Then after that, I wish we had the baseball rule (players must stay three years if they don’t turn pro out of high school).

“In football, you have to stay three years no matter what, but football is also a different sport. What 18-year-old would be mature enough to play in the NFL? In basketball you could have guys that come through every now and then that could do that, a LeBron (James) or Kobe (Bryant) or whomever.

If a kid is able to go and do that and take care of himself and his family, do that. If he can’t, go to school and stay in school,” added Self, who indicated he was “proud” of those Jayhawks who left early for making sure they left KU in good academic standing.

An alteration of the one-and-done rule would also help coaches assemble their rosters.

“It (staying 2-3 years) would change the whole dynamics of recruiting,” Self said, “because you won’t be trying to sign the next guy to replace that guy (one-and-done) when you don’t even know if that guy is leaving or not. You’ll have a better feel for it.”

Comments

Scott MacWilliams 3 years, 4 months ago

First again! THe Left Coast review is ON!

I can't agree more with HCBS. The 1&done deal just ain't working, and little tweaks aren't going to improve it. Lets lobby for the baseball rule and give everybody a better chance.

Rock CHalk!!

Keith Kienzle 3 years, 4 months ago

If Bill got his way completely (which he won't), including the review panel, would going overseas for a year still be an option for graduating high schoolers? Would this route become more traveled for fringe NBA talent?

LAJayhawk 3 years, 4 months ago

You could declare for the draft at any point (having not gone to college), but if you chose school you would have to stay. Someone could potentially declare for the draft out of HS, not get drafted, and go play in Europe to build his stock. However, if he was to do that, I would have to think he would declare for the draft first and try that route. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense (he would already lose amatuer status by playing for money overseas).

The "panel" that would choose which players could declare is absolutely legistically impossible and, quite frankly, unfair and illegal. What grounds would they use to decide? It would be a nightmare and would undoubtedly face numerous lawsuits. There is absolutely no chance that can happen. It seems pretty clear Self wasn't saying that as a realistic possibility, just a "I wish something like this could exist" kind of thing. There is no way it could, however.

CENATIONNEVERGIVEUPHLR 3 years, 4 months ago

-50 I would have to disagree with you in so many ways. Half the guys that go through a 1 and done season are usually players that ride the bench for about a year before there coach of that team finally lets him play there 1st game the next season There was about 15 players from last year's class that road the bench and about 3 of 5 of those players got to play just because of another player getting injured.

I agree with what Bill Self says. He is right in so many ways and i will tell you why

Half the players that go 1 and done are players who actually need help on there game. Look at Henry he needed alot of help on his game and so did Josh Selby They had horrible seasons. Those 2 where the worst 2 players that was ever on the Kansas Jayhawks roster They made the Morris Twins look like Drew Gooden and Jeff Boshee

Sorry GBJayhawk...But you get a -50 on that comment

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 3 months ago

It wasn't till Kobe's 3rd year that he became the starter. Only 7 starts his first 2 seasons. Would having gone to a University have made him a better player?

Comparing X and Selby doesn't make much sense.. Different styles, different positions and different expectations. X was far more consistant. X was a lottery pick at #12.

Selby and Xavier were the worst two players 'that was ever on the Kansas Jayhawks roster'? I guess you must be a new fan to make such a statement.

"They made the Morris Twins look like Drew Gooden and Jeff Boshee" You got me there..no idea what that means.

"Half the guys that go through a 1 and done season are usually players that ride the bench for about a year before there coach of that team finally lets him play there 1st game the next season" Source? Or just opinion?

"I agree with what Bill Self says. He is right in so many ways and i will tell you why"

Still weighting while roiding the bench. More time in class..less time in gym.

Even your avatar, Cena's went to Springfield College. Wasn't Springfield Mass known for something else? It will come to me sooner or later.

waywardJay 3 years, 4 months ago

I think this may be confirmation that Bill Self is going back to less flash and more substance in his recruiting.... recruiting the needs and the positions and letting the players fill out.

I think this is genius coaching.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 4 months ago

He has always been that way, but under the current construct, he is forced to recruit OAD possible players. Everyone is. He wants it to go away because he doesn't like being forced to recruit that way.

That's my take on it anyway.

Kevin Studer 3 years, 4 months ago

If players stay for 3 years, Kentucky will start winning championships. Like it or not, Calipari has a reputation for being the best developer of NBA talent in the college game. That won't go away without the OAD rule. The same top-flight players will still flock to Kentucky.

lee3022 3 years, 4 months ago

Hogwash - Calipari has fewer players in the NBA than Self for longer coaching. He has gotten several years of top ten talent. And turned them into ? DeMarcus Cousins is so soft he crings when a real NBA player bangs into him. Tyreke Evans made a roookie splash on a bad team and then faded. Wall and Rose have natural talent and neither could play point guard coming into the NBA.

Most of those same players would declare for the draft and Calipari would be exposed as the mediocre coach he has always been.

waywardJay 3 years, 4 months ago

I do not buy it. you know why ? because those kids were going to go to the NBA with or without John Calipari.... Just like Rose and Evans.... Best developer of talent would be able to find talent anywhere and bring it to the NBA..... this is not Calipari..

Don't go lebron and start guarantuing championships plural either... Sure they will get one eventually... Odds right ? But I wouldn't bet on his coaching winning out 6 games in a row often.....

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 3 months ago

Time will tell about the OADs and I agree w/you. They really aren't worth all the time and resources needed to sign them. Less flash..more substance = winning formula. BUT..we were getting mid to upper level 4 star players. And I'm hoping that is what we go back to because unranked and low rated threes will not get it done. This years recruiting was already in trouble before the season even began. Nobody knew what the twins, Selby and even TRob might do..Self ended up needing players and got the best possible.

gardenjay 3 years, 4 months ago

Thank you Bill. Remembering Danny Manning, and the true spirit of college basketball will only improve fandom and longevity of the sport, not to mention all the other positives mentioned by HCBS. A win win.

Jayhawklegacy 3 years, 4 months ago

Hate the one and done rule! Coach Self could not of explained it better. Kentucky would not have a team if they didn't have one and dones. Calapari would have to find another way to cheat I mean recruit!!

SaltLakeHawk 3 years, 4 months ago

why do people feel the need to bring up John Calapari during EVERY single discussion? I can almost guarantee there is at least one Calapari comment under every single article on this website.

Look, I don't like the guy the either. I have zero respect for the man. But certain people's obsessive hatred toward him is just plain weird... and borderline creepy.

I'm pretty sure the obsessive Calapari bashers do their bashing in between crafting shiny new tinfoil hats (to keep the aliens out) and blogging about the new world order.

Give it a rest.

JayHawkFanToo 3 years, 4 months ago

I agree that Calipari's name is brought up a lot, sometimes unnecessarily. However, how can you have a discussion on the one and done issue in College BBall without mentioning the squid?

100 3 years, 4 months ago

I think the purists of the game.... a lot of Kansas, UNC, Indiana fans are tired of this sideshow named Calipari. These traditions were built through 4 year programs (called Universities) over the course of 100 years. From afar these fanbases watched Calipari's name turn into an adjective at Memphis & UMass.

I think most of us find what he did at those programs very Calipari-ish.

Now he's joined Kentucky, the all-time winningnest program (if you count the point shaving seasons which were never vacated), a program built by a man who learned his craft right here in Lawrence, under the guidance of Phog Allen & Dr. Naismith himself (who was the first instructor Rupp met on campus upon arriving as a student in 1919). Rupp's "supporters" (boosters) in Lexington, it might be noted, years later admitted to paying nearly the entire starting roster for those Kentucky squads that won the point shaving championships in the late 40's & early 50's. But I digress.... This is about a man who took his best players from Memphis after signing a 35 million dollar contract with him to Kentucky. This is about a man who had a special clause in the kids letter of intent so they could "follow" him to another college, cough cough, I mean the NBA draft..... This is about a man who keeps agents' routing numbers in his hair gel....

Again, basketball purists from not only Kansas, but all over the country aren't blind here when it comes to the Calipari effect in a city where they just inked a new contract for $6 million per season. And now, after washing so many orphans feet with that gleeming glint in his eye in Canada... He is now a verb:

"Do you mind flushing the toilet next time Granny? You Calipari-ied the entire hallway pretty good!"

martyks 3 years, 4 months ago

Easy to answer this one: Calipari is a synonym of OAD. You can look it up.

CENATIONNEVERGIVEUPHLR 3 years, 4 months ago

They do it is because they have a MAN CRUSH ON HIM

bad_dog 3 years, 3 months ago

Given your avatar, it's obvious who has the man crush.

  • infinity...

LAJayhawk 3 years, 4 months ago

I saw ESPN talking heads say the other day that if the OAD rule was changed (to, say, 2 years) that Calipari would undoubtedly win a national title. The idea is that he would still get (close to) the same level of talent, but they would have more experience.

NOTE: Just reporting what they said. Please 100, do not let your head explode. I'm not pushing any pro-Calipari propaganda here, I promise.... ;-)

100 3 years, 4 months ago

LA-Jayhawk,

No I don't think you Calipari-ied that one at all, I think you speak the truth.

This is probably Calipari's one chance to win one next year if Stern changes the rules a bit...

Obviously any Calpari/Kentucky fan is rooting for a 3 year minimum (making sure he can still get the elite guys & keep them long enough to build something). A typical Kentucky/Calipari fan would also tack on forcing a high school player to go to college, which would mean for 3 years.

What should concern the Calipari fanbase is the loss of the elite talent (that would, however, inevitably be stuck in Lexington if a 3 year minimum was enforced beginning next year until the end of the 2014 season).

We know how some of them got there in the past. Anyone read the story about Cousins? Well about 10 of those top 10 players would be stuck in Lexington for 3 years. 6 or 7 would be stuck for 2.

At any rate, if Calipari is forced to recruit non elite talent after 2014, that's where it gets interesting.

But right now, if the NBA does make a change regarding the 3 year rule, for the next 3 years all of the Calipari nation will be laughing to the bank.

Again, research Cousins recruitment & you'll see why the rest of the college basketball community would be sickened by what Calipari would be lined up with until 2014, while the rest of college basketball watches an NBA team 10 deep named the University of Calimari Squids...

I believe he gets 'em all by himself now.... But for 15 years, without a doubt on God's green earth, he Calipari-ied himself to get to this point of recruiting "greatness."

100 3 years, 4 months ago

LA-Jayhawk,

No I don't think you Calipari-ied that one at all, I think you speak the truth.

This is probably Calipari's one chance to win one next year if Stern changes the rules a bit...

Obviously any Calpari/Kentucky fan is rooting for a 3 year minimum (making sure he can still get the elite guys & keep them long enough to build something). A typical Kentucky/Calipari fan would also tack on forcing a high school player to go to college, which would mean for 3 years.

What should concern the Calipari fanbase is the loss of the elite talent (that would, however, inevitably be stuck in Lexington if a 3 year minimum was enforced beginning next year until the end of the 2014 season).

We know how some of them got there in the past. Anyone read the story about Cousins? Well about 10 of those top 10 players would be stuck in Lexington for 3 years. 6 or 7 would be stuck for 2.

At any rate, if Calipari is forced to recruit non elite talent after 2014, that's where it gets interesting.

But right now, if the NBA does make a change regarding the 3 year rule, for the next 3 years all of the Calipari nation will be laughing to the bank.

Again, research Cousins recruitment & you'll see why the rest of the college basketball community would be sickened by what Calipari would be lined up with until 2014, while the rest of college basketball watches an NBA team 10 deep named the University of Calimari Squids...

I believe he gets 'em all by himself now.... But for 15 years, without a doubt on God's green earth, he Calipari-ied himself to get to this point of recruiting "greatness."

theajayhawk 3 years, 4 months ago

Agree. However, colleges and college coaches have little say in this. NBA immensely benefits from this because the players become known commodities from that one year in college. Many Kansas fans won't have known Selby or Henry if they were able to go straight to the NBA. I doubt NBA will change anything.

gardenjay 3 years, 4 months ago

Like you say, college basketball has everything to do with benefitting the NBA.

Mike Kendall 3 years, 4 months ago

Finally, somebody talking some common sense here---thanks Coach Self, for talking some common sense.

BTW, I long for the days to watch and cheer on players like Kirk Hinrich, Nick Collison, Ryan Robertson and yes, as someone mentioned above, Danny Manning.

Please NBA---change the rule!!!!!

jhox 3 years, 4 months ago

The NBA changed the rule that allowed players to come straight out of high school, because too many of those kids were getting picked high in the draft, only to wash out. Don't expect the NBA to change this rule soon. They like it just as it is. In the mean time, the elite programs which have a legitimate chance of landing the one and done type of kids, end up paying the price.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 4 months ago

Actually, Eamonn Brennan of ESPN wrote a very interesting blog piece about a month ago showing how the OAD rule hasn't changed anything with respect to draft mistakes. The same mistakes are being made with the OAD rule as they were without it. He actually argues that busts exist whether they played 4 years of college or none.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/31469/does-the-age-limit-work-for-the-nba

The rule isn't doing what was supposed to do, and, in the meantime, it is unfair to everyone involved. I think the owners would like to extend it to 2 years to, again, try to limit the mistakes. It won't, but at least it will be more fair to college ball.

Self's idea, however, is the most fair for everyone: the NBA gets time to evaluate the borderline players by watching them for 3 years, the top level guys (i.e. a Rose or Durant) can go straight to the League where they belong anyway, and college's get the opportunity to have kids stay. Sure, some kids who are risky will take the chance, but it's on the NBA to not draft them and the kids to make the right decisions.

Personally, I think you do this idea and, along with it, the NBA requires HS kids to go through a "class" of some sort explaining the upside and downside to declaring out of high school. Give the kids all the information, and let them decide for themselves. Because, in the end, yes, mistakes will be made. We all, however, have to make our own choices in life and those choices can be mistakes. When you turn 18, you are an adult -- for better or worse -- and have to make your own decisions. Give them the information (i.e. success rate, what they risk by declaring, what their choices are) and let them decide for themselves.

I think this is an idea that everyone can get behind, because it benefits all parties.

CENATIONNEVERGIVEUPHLR 3 years, 4 months ago

-250

I would have to disagree with you on that

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 3 months ago

CENATIONNEVERGIVEUPHLR gave you a '-250' on his first day posting! TFF

chriz 3 years, 3 months ago

Also, the GM for the Hornets said the same thing about Selby. He said that the kids who were highly touted out of high school often had more success than those highly touted out of college. Weird, but probably true.

jcphawk 3 years, 4 months ago

I wonder how Coach Calipari would recruit if he had to actually get players that wanted to play more than one year. I would fully support any change that eliminated one and done. Make the decision, do you want to try for the NBA or do you want to be a student athlete.

vd 3 years, 4 months ago

Finally the LJW does a BB article. Only 4 monthes till the first game.

andersonalex 3 years, 4 months ago

I'm still surprised legal action hasn't been taken against these organizations to force them to allow potential employees (players) to be able to apply at any time they want. They are offering jobs and restricting who may apply. Making matters worse, they're banning anyone who takes a job with them from seeking an education in that field afterwards.

Maybe this is a strange way of looking at it, but this really isn't how the rest of the business world is allowed to operate according to our laws. And this certainly is big business with profit driving the decision making. If this REALLY was about the concern for well-being of the students, we wouldn't tell a kid who failed to get a job in the NBA that he can't come back to school for that sport.

It's inconvenient for NBA teams if players don't turn out to be ready? It's inconvenient for coaches if players leave early? Welcome to the challenges that employers face.

AverageCitizen 3 years, 4 months ago

Wait a minute andersonalex- You want to FORCE private business to take an employee? You are against employers restricting who may apply? I dare say every job has a criteria to apply. Tons of jobs require degrees, certain number of years experience, licenses etc. In fact, contrary to what you wrote the rest of the business world does operate like this.

The truth is that NBA ready kids just graduating from high school are a small minority. Most rules and regulations are made for the majority not the minority. I feel soooo sorry for a kid that he has to put in his time and pay his dues to get a job......................NOT!

andersonalex 3 years, 4 months ago

No, I didn't say anything about forcing private businesses to hire an employee. I said that, like with any business, people should be free to apply without penalty as long as they are of legal age. Just because I'm allowed to apply for a software position doesn't mean the employer is obliged to hire or even consider me.

This situation is different. Here, an individual is prevented from applying despite being of legal age, and once they do apply, they are henceforth banned from certain lines of education. I'm simply surprised this hasn't been attacked in court. Maybe it has?

lee3022 3 years, 4 months ago

Anti-trust laws are preempted by labor laws and that is why it is written into the NBA CBA. If collective bargaining includes it judges have no authority to change it.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 3 months ago

Seems like you know your facts..doesn't bode well for upcoming season.

Tuskin 3 years, 3 months ago

Interesting. I hadn't thought about applying age discrimination laws to the NBA's rules. That may be a violation, just like refusing to hire 62-year-olds for your office because of their age.

dgaskill 3 years, 4 months ago

Looks like CBS is getting tired of being used (or is it Hosed ) by over hyped High School players.

nuleafjhawk 3 years, 4 months ago

I think Coach is telling us (fans) what we want to hear, but I would be very surprised if he really believes that this will ever happen. I'm sure he wants it to, as do we all, but once the virus (NBA) takes hold no amount of logic, rationality or morality will cure it, it just has to run its course.

Since this whole one and done disease has shown its ugly head, it has done nothing but weaken college basketball. There have been a handful of beneficiaries and a plethora of victims. In case you wondered, I'm slightly in favor of student/athletes being actually that and staying in college until they graduate.

In my humble opinion, there haven't been more than probably 20 kids in the past 20 years ( I know someone will immediately check the records to prove me wrong! ) who were legitimately good enough players to go from High School to the NBA, or even good enough to go after one year of college.

ALMOST none of these kids are as good as they believe they are. It's not their fault that they believe this - they've been told since probably 6th grade how unbelieveable they are, how talented they are and when you're fed garbage for several years, garbage becomes standard fare. You can't help but believe it. It's not fair to the kids, and it's not fair to the Universities that spend endless amounts of time and money recruiting them.

If anyone in the NBA hierarchy had a conscience, I would plead with them to eradicate this nonsense, let these kids mature physically, socially and mentally, let them enjoy their college experience, have fun and learn the game before swooping in like a starving vulture on a road-kill skunk. But, since they don't - I won't. Man - I guess I'd better go to church. I think I have issues.

gardenjay 3 years, 4 months ago

Colleges do not have to be the weak sibling here. According to the posts above, colleges 'own' the advertising they are doing for the NBA players. If colleges are getting used to promote stock in a player, then they should ban together and change the rules that apply to that part of a basketball player's career. I believe it could work the other way.....

waywardJay 3 years, 4 months ago

you are pretty much right on there.... and even some of best recent examples for the one and done would be drastically improved had they spent three years in college.

Stern's no Dummy. Criminally hypocritical, maybe. Down right corrupt to the core, Sure. Definetely not stupid. The NBDL is a joke of a minor league system, And1 basketball is Professional Wrestling on a Basketball court, and his only truly martketable "Minor League" is college where these guys can be legitimately grown if given time. Stern has also shown very little in the way of Remorse when it comes to decision making and when it comes to things that are important, he has often made the right decision.

Case in point, His current negotiation tactics... He is willing to leave guarantued contracts on the table, knowing he will not budge on a hard salary cap. He doesn't mind letting a player like Joe Johnson get the max money out of a Contract, just wants to change a player like Joe JOhnson cashing in on the culture of Demigod that exists in the NBA. Ya know, like Being the best player on your team automatically means you will get a 4-5 year 60-80 million dollar contract just because You CAN get that from the extremely lucrative Tv Market franchises ( new york, Los Angeles,etc..... ). Fixing this won't really be too difficult, when the Owners ( who have all the bargaining power right now ) clinch down on the situation like a rabid Weasal on the proverbials Rabbit that is the NBA Players association.

Stern knows the current system is broken, and he won't fix it because of the countless number of players who have drastically different careers now than they would have with two -three years of college. He will fix it because he doesn't want to pay to upgrade the NBDL, and it would cost him even more money in the long run to develop a functioning Minor league no one will go to see.

waywardJay 3 years, 4 months ago

I wish I had more faith in the bargaining powers of the players.... I think it would drastically improve basketball if they did have more power. The Regular Season is too long, and is becoming a joke. Players careers are shortened by a season that stretches until almost July and training camp starts in September. Think about how dramatically different a career arc could have been for say a Tim Duncan with 1 more month of rest a year.

And it's not even that 82 games is that long, it's not. My best guess to the reason for the extreme length of the season is stadium ticket sales.... Expand out the amount of Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays as many as possible to maximize the amount of ticket holders in the Arena, but they are missing the boat here. If you put a better product on the court ( players having more longevity to their careers, being actually prepared when they come into the league....etc.... ) I do truly believe ticket sales won't be a problem.

It all starts with the baseball rule, If you elect to go pro straight out of high school, you can but you will have no safety net if things do not pan out. If you elect to go to college, you stay a minimum 3 years. You can keep the European clubs available in the out set if a player is drafted and a bust to improve their career ( kind alike hockey but allow for a retainer for a team to own rights if that player has improved..... That way, If a team drafts a player like Brandon Knight, who is not ready for the NBA limelight, they retain the rigts of him when he returns to the NBA at some future point. that effectively would kill two birds with one stone. Salvaging the players who have no business jumping directly to the NBA, and allowing teams like Charlotte, and Oklahoma City the same luxuries in drafting as teams like New York and Los Angeles do... ) All it will take,really for kids to stay in school is to see guy like Kwame Brown completely flame out, with no Ownership back bone to funnel him back into a different team because you cannot teach 7 foot tall.

The plot line would look drastically different for his NBA career, for sure, had we used something more like my angle.

He was drafted in 2001, played 4 years at Washington, e was summarily shipped Los Angeles for 3 years, Memphis for a year, Detriot for two years, and currently finished the last years with Charlotte. He was a bust in all of those seasons, and is currently 29 with potentially 11 more legitmate years to bank an NBA contract for anyone foolish to know he's a slow 6'11, 270 pounder, who cannot shoot.

waywardJay 3 years, 4 months ago

In MY scenario we could have seen his plot line altered drastically, after two years of NBA failure the Washington Wizards could have sent him off to a foreign team they could sell his rights too. You may ask, that's not exactly fair, Why should he have to Leave America to Follow his Basketball dream? Because, He being 6'11 and 270 pounds does not a basketball player make, simply put. He went directly out of High school, and instead of choosing to get an education and learn how to develop as a basketball player he jumped into the corporate world without a safety net. The NBDL would be an option but not at the pay rate he is making, and the European leagues pay reasonably comparable to NBA lower tier contracts. If he improved during his trip overseas, Washington would stay retain the rights to him under contract, and could use him how they deemed necessary.

Certainly, there should be a safe guard that would allow for a player being black balled by certain ownership group, but it makes the most fiscal sense. Most of all, He doesn't go from team to team, never improving, and raking in Millions of Dollars fresh in the eyes and minds of impressionable young players who think they don't have to improve their game, and can make millions just for being 6'11 270 pounds.

SOrry that was pretty long winded.

Woody Cragg 3 years, 4 months ago

If they are truly teachers, none would approve of the OAD rule. Guess we know the slime that tops the list of "others."

Funhawk 3 years, 4 months ago

The above picture of Bill is one of my two favorites. He looks like a cat getting ready to pounce on a mouse. My other favorite picture is of Disco Bill. Bill is a fun coach.

Kevin Heath 3 years, 4 months ago

If the rule were to change requiring the players to be three years beyond high school the only people disappointed would be the high school kids.

1) NBA owners would love not shelling out lots of money on "potential." Only 7 of the over 40 players drafted right out of high school made an All-NBA team. It goes without saying there is benefit to playing in college, if nothing else to weed out the average guys.

2) Current NBA fringe players would love to not think of losing their roster spot to a guy who might play <5 minutes a game because he has "potential" to become good.

There are plenty of jobs in the US which currently have an age requirement to perform them even though younger people may be perfectly capable of the job. Most notably, rememeber there is an age requirement to run for congress or become president (feel free to insert your obvious age and elected official joke here).

I guess I just think in the NBA both the owners and the current players would not only benefit, but appreciate an infiltration of unproven talent into the league.

How about this:

1) People become draft eligible when they are three years beyond high school.

2) There are plenty of professional leagues around for player to play for cash should they desire prior to that time.

3) Those who attend college must stay for three years. If they leave college early they cannot play in the lower professional leagues. In other words they can't go to college for one year then decide they want option 2 from above.

The current system is abusive to the college game. As far as I remember there has been only 1 one-and-done player who really helped/carried his team to an NCAA title, and as KU fans, we all know that name.

I know my above thoughts would likely never fly, but that is what I'd like to see.

Mike Kendall 3 years, 4 months ago

@ wcjayhawk----

Totally agree with you-----this is what I would like to see, as well. Thanks for a great post and bringing up some good points.

texashawk10 3 years, 3 months ago

Carmelo may have been a OAD player, but he did it prior to the OAD rule being implicated by the NBA so he voluntarily went to Syracuse. In the era of the OAD rule, Ohio St. in 2007, Memphis in 2008, and Kentucky this past season are the only teams to reach the Final Four while having at least one freshman being a major contributor and in the case of Ohio St. and Kentucky they had multiple freshman.

justinryman 3 years, 4 months ago

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Kenny Terry 3 years, 4 months ago

If the NBA changed the oad rule and let kids go right out of high school would we ever see say the top 20 ranked kids as per Rivals or Scout ever play college ball ?

oldalum 3 years, 4 months ago

Maybe not the first year, but my guess is the number of failures would make the next class think twice before going straight from high school.

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

I would hope so, but the NBA is a cartel, or a very insulated tightly controlled oligopoly, at the least, and such organizations are among the worst at learning from error. The system pays them so well and insulates them so much from their errors, that they are institutionally prone to just keep doing the same dumb things over and over again.

Brian Skelly 3 years, 4 months ago

Despite his denying it, there is no question the dealings of the Henry's and Selby's investigations had to take a toll. Maybe just a little, but nonetheless those are the "one and done" memories that are fresh.

I for one dont begrudge any kid that goes pro. Not at all. But having some semblance of rules more comparable to Baseball or Football would help. It would help the NBA get more seasoned players (and hopefully more mature players... one can hope). It would help the college game by simply allowing players to develop longer. The improvement in play would help both.

It would also help the kid as well. Legitimately good enough to go pro prior to college? Go. Weather you are or arent, you have the option. If you go to college (either Juco or 4 year) instead of play for your stats or to get noticed, odds are you'll develop more as a player. No downside there.

Im not to ate up about it either way. I just know dealing with "X" 2 years ago, and Selby last year seemed to add up to a whole lotta extra drama that is entirely unnecessary. There has to be a better way.

Tony Bandle 3 years, 4 months ago

My Goodness, Bill's Toupee never looked better!!. It appears to have some natural streaking rrom sun exposure. Anyone who takes care of his hair with such detail has gotto be a great coach!!! :)

The one and done rule should be the one that's done.

I am excited about the upcoming because of all the unknowns. It's finally a season whereby we are not "loaded" per se and the expectations from the outside are lessened.

Looking at the roster the potential for an outstanding team is there: PG - Tyshawn, Naadir, Christian, Niko SG - Elijah, BenMac, Conner, Jordan Swing - Travis, Kevin, Merv PF - TRob, Jamari, Justin C - Jeff, Braedon,

Questions to be answered: 1] Will Tyshawn reach his potential and be "The Man"? 2] Is Naadir as good as he seems to be? 3] Not listed on the roster, did Christian walk on somewhere else.....like UCONN? 4] Is Niko a capable practice player? 5] Will Elijah be allowed to be Elijah? 6] It's not a matter of can he shoot, but will BenMac shoot enough? 7] Is Conner a true Division One rotation player? 8] How long will Jordan's Senior Speech run? 9] Can a healthy Travis be the Travis of last season before the injuries? 10] Can Hudy tone up Kevin enough to be a force on the court? 11] Ditto for Merv? 12] Can TRob avoid getting the fouls and missing the foul shots? 13] Can Jamari become Jayhawk Beast JR behind TRob? 14] Will Jeff score, block shots and rebound like a true Div.One 7 footer? 15] Will Braedon make every foul count and rattle the teeth of his opponent?

Bonus Question: Will Coach Dooley smile just once this next season?

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

1] Will Tyshawn reach his potential and be "The Man"? Yes.

2] Is Naadir as good as he seems to be? I haven't seen him, but a friend I trust has seen him and thinks he is.

3] Not listed on the roster, did Christian walk on somewhere else.....like UCONN? Can't say about UCONNjobs, but Christian showed zip in the recent scrimmages, so he may have decided to try elsewhere, or it may just be an oversight.

4] Is Niko a capable practice player? Yes.

5] Will Elijah be allowed to be Elijah? I predict he will super nova, then before the national championship, he will prophesy a victory and the vision will be realized. Self will crack, "It was lucky we won the game, or I was going to have set him down all of next season for making a pre-game prediction that cost us a ring."

6] It's not a matter of can he shoot, but will BenMac shoot enough? Yes.

7] Is Conner a true Division One rotation player? Yes.

8] How long will Jordan's Senior Speech run? Short, because he will have played 20 minutes and scored a career high 16 points that day.

9] Can a healthy Travis be the Travis of last season before the injuries? Yes. And he will set the KU record of most consecutive games with a dunk.

10] Can Hudy tone up Kevin enough to be a force on the court? Yes. Hudy will introduce "Hudy-Up" the world's first energy drink, and this Young will respond by ripping out to look like a 6'8" Bruce Lee.

11] Ditto for Merv? No, due to being only 17, Merv will wait a season before ripping out to look like Dwayne Johnson in Fast Five. This season he will merely shoot 70 percent from three against zones.

12] Can TRob avoid getting the fouls and missing the foul shots? Yes and no. And he will develop a neutron forearm smash that destroys the brain, while leaving the head intact.

13] Can Jamari become Jayhawk Beast JR behind TRob? Yes. He will master the forearm smash by December 1 and prove to be an excellent rebounder.

14] Will Jeff score, block shots and rebound like a true Div.One 7 footer? Starting two weeks into the conference season, after he has recovered from having his nose broken and one of his lower teeth knocked out.

15] Will Braedon make every foul count and rattle the teeth of his opponent? Yes, and Braedon will at last popularize the sport of curling in Lawrence.

Bonus Question: Will Coach Dooley smile just once this next season? If he increases the amount of fiber in his diet and his scouting report produces the scheme to win a ring.

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

Erratum: 11. make that the world's first "clear" energy drink.

CENATIONNEVERGIVEUPHLR 3 years, 4 months ago

-500

This comment was so pointless it doesn't even have any meaning

But i will tell you this...Its going to take Kansas Jayhawks about maybe 1 or 2 years to get back to there form on the way they was playing basketball

They missed out on alot of top recruits and that is going to end up getting them into trouble this season

The next time you could see the Kansas Jayhawks as Big 12 Champions 2013

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

"My name is hose bag. Can I play with you?" -CENATIONNEVERGIVEUPHLR

Jeeveshawk 3 years, 3 months ago

1] Will Tyshawn reach his potential and be "The Man"? Yea, but he will falter every now-and-then.

2] Is Naadir as good as he seems to be? He is supposed to be very efficiant which will make him slightly better than expected.

3] Not listed on the roster, did Christian walk on somewhere else.....like UCONN? I think he left for some small D2 school (i don't know for sure, i just think i remember something like that)

4] Is Niko a capable practice player? Practice- yes. actual play- no

5] Will Elijah be allowed to be Elijah? With loss of Brady, Tyrel, and Selby- i don't see how not.

6] It's not a matter of can he shoot, but will BenMac shoot enough? Yup, he might shoot too much but HCBS will stop him.

7] Is Conner a true Division One rotation player? Not really. He will be a decent option for serious foul trouble. (kinda like Jeremy Case) 8] How long will Jordan's Senior Speech run? I have no idea.

9] Can a healthy Travis be the Travis of last season before the injuries? Probably even better

10] Can Hudy tone up Kevin enough to be a force on the court? Yes.

11] Ditto for Merv? Less likely than for Kevin but it could happen...

12] Can TRob avoid getting the fouls and missing the foul shots? Sometimes he will and sometimes he wont.

13] Can Jamari become Jayhawk Beast JR behind TRob? Yup, it is likely that in 2013 that Naadir, Johnson(?), Travis, Braeden, and Jamari could be great and form a deadly lineup(probably starting lineup)

14] Will Jeff score, block shots and rebound like a true Div.One 7 footer? Not as much as he should, but sometimes he will show up and do a great job doing what he is supposed to do.

15] Will Braedon make every foul count and rattle the teeth of his opponent? Probably

Bonus Question: Will Coach Dooley smile just once this next season? I don't know, that will be interesting.

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

Nix this photo of Self putting his hands in conjuring position. It does him no justice. While he approaches wizard status, he is not quite there and when he gets there he will use a magic wand instead of these hand gestures.

dnvrhawk 3 years, 4 months ago

He's just getting ready to choke people who leave comments that are longer than five sentences.

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

Really?

A friend of mine in Lawrence just overheard him say he was imaging twisting the head off geeks that spell Denver "dnvr". If you can't get a real life, at least get a virtual one. :-)

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

"Keep'em Four Years in a Pre-Professional Sports Major and Degree Program Tied to an Institute: or Make the Players, the NBA and Universities Vastly Richer"

The NBA would be better off with a bunch of college educated professionals.

The NBA players would be better off being college educated professionals.

And there are now so many jobs in professional basketball outside the NBA that probably half to two thirds of the guys can get professional basketball jobs now.

D1 schools need to approve the creation of pre-professional basketball majors in an existing Bachelor's degree program, the same as there is a pre med and pre-law programs for students that want to become doctors and lawyers.

The reality today is that being a professional basketball player today is running a business. It requires a player be able to hire and work intelligently with lawyers, accountants, trainers, a PR person, have some IT skills, understand a foreign language, understand tax laws impacting income earned in foreign countries, manage insurance and understand using insurance to allay injury risk.

A professional basketball player today, whatever level he plays at, is either an enterprise that needs a skilled person at the head of it, or a sucker ready to be fleeced like some punch drunk club fighter by an unscrupulous manager and the boys down town.

Create a pre-basketball major that is geared to turn these players in to lean, mean enterprise machines that make them economic forces to be reckoned with, and they will gladly stay in college four years to prepare to not be screwed.

Then set up insurance programs to allay their risk of staying in school, then pay them enough to live simply on, while they are getting the business educations they need, and, boom, you have solved this problem.

Set the program up in the business schools, and the business schools will have famous graduates to help them attract more regular business school grads.

The mega rich pros will probably come back and set up an institute in the business school that will let some tired professor jump into fund development for the institute and out of the grind of teaching. This is how it is done in every other field of academic and professional endeavor.

Hell, there ought to be a pre-franchise owership track too.

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

This is a potential academic development gold mine and the flipping backward thinking persons in academics are overlooking it.

Imagine connecting this pre professional sports track degree program, with an institute, and then connecting all of that to sports administration, sports apparel industries, sports broadcasting and sports medicine industries!

KU should leap into this plan and quickly use its lobbying power--the state of Kansas grain and oil lobbies could ram this through in an eye blink if there were something in it for them--to become the national repository for pre-professional sports education. Any school that attaches itself to the Federal teat as a national repository of anything is instantly enriched beyond what most of us can grasp.

But Chancellor Bernie could grasp this. And if anyone could pull this sort of thing off, she would be the one. She's got the connections in London. She's got the connections with the Kansas oil and gas and grain folks. She's got the connections within the University, at KUAD and I would guess nationally in the academic administration field.

And in the background, over at the Hall's institute, she's got one of the ranking genius of shaking the money tree, former Chancellor Bob Hemenway.

Between Chancellor Bernie and Bob, this could be "developed" and valving money in Lawrence and Kansas within a few short years.

The first university, to get through to David Stern's Outlook linked brain, and enrolls him with this idea, the first university that pioneer this is going to have institute jobs and research grants and donations that dwarf the cash cycles of half the institutes on the campus right now.

Then if someone smarter than me can figure out how to tie this all into defense and intelligence, or some other hog trough agency at the Federal level, the KU Institute of Professional Sports Research, or more likely the Grantor X Institute of Professional Sports Research, will become the biggest institute on the campus, outside of certain hard sciences that have long whored themselves out to the military-academic-industrial complex. No institute can compete with those funding black holes.

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

But then sports would be properly integrated back into the university in our society. The university's opportunity for "development" would be significantly increased. All aspects of the sports industry would get the efficiency benefits of dealing with professional athletes with education. The NBA would be getting guys with enough education that they can be effectively showcased and marketed. They will have fewer failures from drafting uneducated, often functionally illiterate, undeveloped potential. The schools will have more rich alumni making and holding on to more money that they will eventually donate back to the university. The players will be empowered and become the respected professionals that they ought to be in our society, based on the fantastic sums of money that they can generate for organizations.

Parents can say, "I want my son (or daughter) to grow up to be a doctor, or a laywer, an accountant, a high tech CEO, or a sports professional."

Not just a professional basketball player with a short career being hosed every step of the way by economic predators benefitting from players without educations.

The beauty of our economic system occurs when it harnesses the self-interests of all involved in a goal that include making everyone better off.

This is completely feasible in this situation, if the Universities, the NBA, and all the industries profitting from the game, take off the blinders.

Rock Chalk!

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

P.S.: To distill all of the above, a professional athlete need be seen now as a respected profession, instead of a freakish by product of market and institutional inefficiecies.

P.S.: If any one knows CBernie, show this to her. She will scoff at it to you, but she will immediately recognize the "development" opportunity and it takes someone like her, or Hemenway, someone who really knows how to operate a bureaucracy like a major university, and knows how institutes work, to fit the pieces together. The words "national repository" are the academic bureaucratic equivalent of "there's gold in them thar hills."

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

P.P.S.: Oh, and I know there are sports institutes, but they are just sports QA fronts for development. This thing needs to be tied into the real sports industries and to the government. And it needs a stream of student athletes, who really are going to become big money makers in the sports field, not just dorks doing QA. The institute needs the dorks doing QA, but it needs that student athletes more. They are the new profession that needs to be wired into the university process, not just exploited for a couple years and jettisoned. They need to be professionals that remain connected to the university through the institute and who fan out into the global sports industry and attract "development monies" back into the university. The student athletes need to become a long term revenue source, not just slam bam thank you mam 2-4 year jocks. They need to be river around with the all aspects of the sports industry agglomerate around and dyke and channel the river with "development" monies.

Quick, someone text message Vernon Jordan and Kate Sibelius. Tell them they ought to meet with CBernie about this. Basketball has taken off in Europe. Bilderbergers on both sides of the Atlantic can probably find a way to use this for their agenda too. Make it rain Fed Notes for a new national repository at the University of Kansas, one that doesn't make anyone sick with radiation, or engineer chem/bio agents, or figure out how to rig international trade institutions and tax policy to outsource our jobs. It just recognizes that sports is a new profession worth of respect and ought to be institutionalized into our academic/institute system the way other professions and industries are. Take the rogue element out of sports. Put it under the rubric of oligarchy, too.

Go, CBernie, go!

jaybate 3 years, 4 months ago

Yes, ralster. And, again, we are not just talking about a few guys prepping the NBA. We are talking about a global basketball industry with lots of jobs that pay lesser players vastly better than most KU grads can earn in any other entry level jobs in other professions.

Sports administration. Future administrators and entrepreneurs.

Sports performance. Future players.

Sports marketing. Future promoters.

Sports finance. Future investors and lenders on sports.

Sports law. Future sports contract writers and negotiators and litigators.

Sports media. Future talking heads and rip and readers, plus future sports network head administrators, plus future online sports social networks and related expertise that will be required, etc.

Sports gaming industries. Both the gambling industry and the game boy industry. These two industries are just monumental in scale.

Sports advertising and PR.

Sports agents and business managers.

Sports medicine. Future jock docs.

Sports physical therapy.

Sports economics. Future economists specializing in economic base impacts of sports on schools, cities, counties, states and countries and federal unions.

The key word is sports.

Sports education is balkanized in the academy without a degree path, or pre sports major right now. There is insignificant attempt to organize the ad hoc curricula of existing sports education under an educational rubric of sports.

Sports, when once adds up monies spent in all the fields of sports listed above has to be one of the big, big, big industry sectors in any economy and, because of the economic expansion around the world and the online linking, one of the fasted growing sectors with one of the highest ceilings.

Combine the scale of sports' economic base with its community building and binding aspect in increasingly online societies and you have one of the single most important, ascendant industries on the planet.

And university educators, still caught up in 20th Century Think, maybe even 19th Century Think, and the bureaucracy and curricula rubrics that constrain such though to inflexible path dependence, are largely missing one of the great "development" opportunities of the 21st Century. They are leaving sports education disaggregated. They are not converging it the way the military, banking, medicine, law, politics, Big Pharma, and so on have done.

Just do it.

Jack Wilson 3 years, 4 months ago

Chiming in on the one and one dilemma.

The plan: As suggested, go with the idea of permitting kids to go straight to the NBA from high school. Once you sign the letter of intent, you stay 3 years. To balance the playing field a bit, if the head coach leaves the school after the signing of the LOI and before the kid appears in a game, he gets a release with no requirement to sit out a year.

But try this .. if a kid does not sign an LOI by April 15, he can enter the NBA draft. Whatever the date, make it after current college players have to declare. So if you're finishing your junior season, you have to declare by April 10 with no right to return. That way, the high school senior will know the roster composition of where he wants to go, and coaches will know. So he then has five days to make his decision .. go pro, or sign the LOI.

After the draft, he has 20 days to make an affirmative election to reaffirm his college eligibility assuming he didn't sign with an agent. Make a late sign period of July 10 - 13.

If he signs the early LOI, he is not draft eligible for three years. Period. This provides college coaches the certainty they desire. If they want to leave spots open for the potential late signees, that's up to them. But they can have the certainty that a kid that signs the LOI is locked up. If coaches desire certainty, they can take some lower ranked guys. If they want to roll the dice, that's up to them.

A negative is that many guys might just roll the dice on the draft. But this permits all interests to be served. And if a large number of guys roll the dice on the draft, knowing they can still sign late, then coaches will adjust.

waywardJay 3 years, 4 months ago

Notice on Bill's Left wrist, dangling just above his shirt cuffs.... What appears to be a time piece of some sort..... One might ask, why would someone who could afford an expensive time piece, where such a youthful looking watch.... The Answer my friends is blowing in the wind... The answer is blowing in the wind.

nuleafjhawk 3 years, 3 months ago

Very observant on the timepiece wayward. Upon you pointing that out, I asked Coach Self about it and here is his reply:

As I was walking down the street one day A man came up to me and asked me what The time was that was on my watch, yeah.......and I said

Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care (about time)? If so, I can't imagine why (oh, no no) We've all got time enough to cry.

texashawk10 3 years, 3 months ago

Here's my take on the OAD rule, get rid of it and adopt a similar rule to baseball. My twist on the rule however would be to not allow HS kids to sign with an agent until after the NBA draft so they can keep collegiate eligibility in the event they don't get drafted. This would be a good safety net to help minimize the damage of a HS kid making a terrible decision and not ruining his life. If a kid does go to college, then he has to stay 3 years before declaring for the draft. The OAD rule was put into place because of LeBron James because from 1995 through 2002 (pre-LeBron drafts) there were a total of 15 high school kids drafted in the NBA in the two drafts following the 2003 LeBron draft, there were 16 high school kids drafted. In the 2003 LeBron draft, there was a total of 4 high schoolers taken for a total of 35 high school players drafted in the 11 years in which there was at least one high schooler that was drafted.

Based on draft position, the bust rate is actually higher post LeBron to me, but that is just my opinion. Of the 15 kids taken in the years prior to LeBron, I consider 7 of them to be busts and they are Korleone Young, Jonathan Bender, Leon Smith, Darius Miles, Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler (although a decent player, he has to be considered a bust based on being the #2 pick in the draft), and Eddy Curry. Of the 16 kids taken post LeBron, I would consider 5 of them to be busts and they are James Lang, Shaun Livingston, Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfair, Martell Webster, and Gerald Green. I do consider Eddy Curry and Shaun Livingston to be busts because of their injuries, because I do believe both would've been very good players had they not had their injury issues.

The difference between the two time periods and the reason why the OAD rule was necessary at the time was the number of high school kids entering the draft post LeBron and a lot of them going in outside of the lottery. Of the 15 kids taken between 1995 and 2002, 9 of them were lottery picks and only 2 were taken in the second round. Compare that to the 2004 and 2005 drafts where only 6 of the 16 were taken in the lottery and 5 were taken in the second round. This is why the bust rate in my opinion is higher among the pre-LeBron draft players than after LeBron because the expectations aren't nearly as high for non-lottery or first round picks as they are for lottery players.

texashawk10 3 years, 3 months ago

I do think Bill Self is on the right track of having some sort of committee to help guide kids into making the right decision about whether or not to go to college. The way I would go about making up a committee would be to have the committee include current NBA players (including players who jumped straight to the NBA and those who went to college) along with scouts, coaches, and executives to give players who are considering jumping to NBA solid advice on their draft projections and how long it would take them to develop into good NBA players because in reality, only LeBron, KG, Dwight Howard, and Amar'e came in and had immediate impacts in their rookie seasons. I think getting sound advice from people who have been around the league for years would keep a lot of players from making one of the biggest mistakes of their careers because in most years, there will be only 2-3 players who are physically ready for the NBA.

imajhawk60 3 years, 3 months ago

Does anyone have any statistics that shows one way or another if the OAD rule is truly a bust or not? I know KU's experience with this was not favorable but what about other schools who had kids who were forced to to to school because of their age. Then what percentage of those went into the NBA and: 1) had a career or 2) did not have a career. I mean if you ask Kentucky, they'd say the OAD rule is just fine.

I don't believe in making a kid stay in college if he doesn't want to. College is suppose to help with your career choice and success. If a kid feels he is ready to go to the NBA, let if - even after 1, 2, or 3 years. I would hope that the kid and his family discuss the options thoroughly and listen to input from people they trust before making a final decision.

Also, even if a kid can't go to the NBA, can't he go overseas to play? Is the choice college or nothing?

Finally, what if a kid wasn't originally a OAD and he excelled in his first year of college ball. Why make him wait another year or two before going to the NBA? What if he gets hurt that second year? Is the college going to pay that kid the possible millions of dollars of lost wages for making him stick around the second year.

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