Sunday, July 3, 2011

KU coach Self: Nix one-and-done rule

Kansas head coach coach Bill Self visits with reporters after a press conference Tuesday, March 29, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse. Self was asked about this year's tournament, his players and thoughts on next year's roster.

Kansas head coach coach Bill Self visits with reporters after a press conference Tuesday, March 29, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse. Self was asked about this year's tournament, his players and thoughts on next year's roster.


If Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self had his way, the NBA’s next collective bargaining agreement would include an alteration of the so-called “one-and-done rule.”

It’s the rule that requires players to be at least 19 years old and one year removed from high school before they can enter the NBA Draft. This rule has led to a batch of players, including KU’s Xavier Henry and Josh Selby, attending college one year, then bolting for the pros.

“I’d say leave (for NBA) out of high school or stay three years in college,” said Self, who would settle for a two-year minimum stay on campus for those who don’t declare for the draft following high school graduation.

“I don’t like what is in place now. It’s not because we’ve had two one-and-dones the last two years. Some people have had more. I don’t think what we have is fair to the kid. We say, ‘Come here to get a degree and help us win, and in turn, when the time is right, we’ll support any decision you make.’ That’s what we’ll say whether it’s one year or two years. The mind-set some kids have coming in is they can be a one-and-done guy. I can understand that. It’s the landscape of where we live and what we do, but it’s not the way it should be.

“It should be kids go to school first, and after they go to school and the time is right, they should be able to jump. I think making them stay a minimum of two would definitely help that cause.”

Self doesn’t begrudge those rare players with NBA-ready bodies and skills the right to make millions of dollars in lieu of college.

“I wish there was some committee saying, ‘OK, if this kid is thought to be a certain pick, then he would be allowed to go,’” Self said. “There wouldn’t be bad decisions. Then after that, I wish we had the baseball rule (players must stay three years if they don’t turn pro out of high school).

“In football, you have to stay three years no matter what, but football is also a different sport. What 18-year-old would be mature enough to play in the NFL? In basketball you could have guys that come through every now and then that could do that, a LeBron (James) or Kobe (Bryant) or whomever.

If a kid is able to go and do that and take care of himself and his family, do that. If he can’t, go to school and stay in school,” added Self, who indicated he was “proud” of those Jayhawks who left early for making sure they left KU in good academic standing.

An alteration of the one-and-done rule would also help coaches assemble their rosters.

“It (staying 2-3 years) would change the whole dynamics of recruiting,” Self said, “because you won’t be trying to sign the next guy to replace that guy (one-and-done) when you don’t even know if that guy is leaving or not. You’ll have a better feel for it.”


imajhawk60 2 years, 9 months ago

Does anyone have any statistics that shows one way or another if the OAD rule is truly a bust or not? I know KU's experience with this was not favorable but what about other schools who had kids who were forced to to to school because of their age. Then what percentage of those went into the NBA and: 1) had a career or 2) did not have a career. I mean if you ask Kentucky, they'd say the OAD rule is just fine.

I don't believe in making a kid stay in college if he doesn't want to. College is suppose to help with your career choice and success. If a kid feels he is ready to go to the NBA, let if - even after 1, 2, or 3 years. I would hope that the kid and his family discuss the options thoroughly and listen to input from people they trust before making a final decision.

Also, even if a kid can't go to the NBA, can't he go overseas to play? Is the choice college or nothing?

Finally, what if a kid wasn't originally a OAD and he excelled in his first year of college ball. Why make him wait another year or two before going to the NBA? What if he gets hurt that second year? Is the college going to pay that kid the possible millions of dollars of lost wages for making him stick around the second year.


texashawk10 2 years, 9 months ago

Here's my take on the OAD rule, get rid of it and adopt a similar rule to baseball. My twist on the rule however would be to not allow HS kids to sign with an agent until after the NBA draft so they can keep collegiate eligibility in the event they don't get drafted. This would be a good safety net to help minimize the damage of a HS kid making a terrible decision and not ruining his life. If a kid does go to college, then he has to stay 3 years before declaring for the draft. The OAD rule was put into place because of LeBron James because from 1995 through 2002 (pre-LeBron drafts) there were a total of 15 high school kids drafted in the NBA in the two drafts following the 2003 LeBron draft, there were 16 high school kids drafted. In the 2003 LeBron draft, there was a total of 4 high schoolers taken for a total of 35 high school players drafted in the 11 years in which there was at least one high schooler that was drafted.

Based on draft position, the bust rate is actually higher post LeBron to me, but that is just my opinion. Of the 15 kids taken in the years prior to LeBron, I consider 7 of them to be busts and they are Korleone Young, Jonathan Bender, Leon Smith, Darius Miles, Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler (although a decent player, he has to be considered a bust based on being the #2 pick in the draft), and Eddy Curry. Of the 16 kids taken post LeBron, I would consider 5 of them to be busts and they are James Lang, Shaun Livingston, Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfair, Martell Webster, and Gerald Green. I do consider Eddy Curry and Shaun Livingston to be busts because of their injuries, because I do believe both would've been very good players had they not had their injury issues.

The difference between the two time periods and the reason why the OAD rule was necessary at the time was the number of high school kids entering the draft post LeBron and a lot of them going in outside of the lottery. Of the 15 kids taken between 1995 and 2002, 9 of them were lottery picks and only 2 were taken in the second round. Compare that to the 2004 and 2005 drafts where only 6 of the 16 were taken in the lottery and 5 were taken in the second round. This is why the bust rate in my opinion is higher among the pre-LeBron draft players than after LeBron because the expectations aren't nearly as high for non-lottery or first round picks as they are for lottery players.


nuleafjhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

Very observant on the timepiece wayward. Upon you pointing that out, I asked Coach Self about it and here is his reply:

As I was walking down the street one day A man came up to me and asked me what The time was that was on my watch, yeah.......and I said

Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care (about time)? If so, I can't imagine why (oh, no no) We've all got time enough to cry.


jhwkfan162515 2 years, 9 months ago

If I had my way, no player could go to the NBA without a college degree.


waywardJay 2 years, 9 months ago

Notice on Bill's Left wrist, dangling just above his shirt cuffs.... What appears to be a time piece of some sort..... One might ask, why would someone who could afford an expensive time piece, where such a youthful looking watch.... The Answer my friends is blowing in the wind... The answer is blowing in the wind.


Jack Wilson 2 years, 9 months ago

Chiming in on the one and one dilemma.

The plan: As suggested, go with the idea of permitting kids to go straight to the NBA from high school. Once you sign the letter of intent, you stay 3 years. To balance the playing field a bit, if the head coach leaves the school after the signing of the LOI and before the kid appears in a game, he gets a release with no requirement to sit out a year.

But try this .. if a kid does not sign an LOI by April 15, he can enter the NBA draft. Whatever the date, make it after current college players have to declare. So if you're finishing your junior season, you have to declare by April 10 with no right to return. That way, the high school senior will know the roster composition of where he wants to go, and coaches will know. So he then has five days to make his decision .. go pro, or sign the LOI.

After the draft, he has 20 days to make an affirmative election to reaffirm his college eligibility assuming he didn't sign with an agent. Make a late sign period of July 10 - 13.

If he signs the early LOI, he is not draft eligible for three years. Period. This provides college coaches the certainty they desire. If they want to leave spots open for the potential late signees, that's up to them. But they can have the certainty that a kid that signs the LOI is locked up. If coaches desire certainty, they can take some lower ranked guys. If they want to roll the dice, that's up to them.

A negative is that many guys might just roll the dice on the draft. But this permits all interests to be served. And if a large number of guys roll the dice on the draft, knowing they can still sign late, then coaches will adjust.


Ralster Jayhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

What a tantalizing concept: A pre-professional basketball studies degree...It plays on the assumption that the kid will 'make it' to the league, and it could be an associate's 2yr curriculum--at least that keeps the kid in school another year. The argument for a 4yr major is weakened (at first glance) by the fact that 4yr Div1 players arent really that much more likely to "make the League". This degree may favor the OAD, and near-OAD type talent that you can realistically see making the league. But a kid with a 4yr degree may do quite well in the business office side of the professional sport. But there are already Sports Admin degrees...may already be similar--but definitely could be marketed from this new angle.


jaybate 2 years, 9 months ago

P.P.S.: Oh, and I know there are sports institutes, but they are just sports QA fronts for development. This thing needs to be tied into the real sports industries and to the government. And it needs a stream of student athletes, who really are going to become big money makers in the sports field, not just dorks doing QA. The institute needs the dorks doing QA, but it needs that student athletes more. They are the new profession that needs to be wired into the university process, not just exploited for a couple years and jettisoned. They need to be professionals that remain connected to the university through the institute and who fan out into the global sports industry and attract "development monies" back into the university. The student athletes need to become a long term revenue source, not just slam bam thank you mam 2-4 year jocks. They need to be river around with the all aspects of the sports industry agglomerate around and dyke and channel the river with "development" monies.

Quick, someone text message Vernon Jordan and Kate Sibelius. Tell them they ought to meet with CBernie about this. Basketball has taken off in Europe. Bilderbergers on both sides of the Atlantic can probably find a way to use this for their agenda too. Make it rain Fed Notes for a new national repository at the University of Kansas, one that doesn't make anyone sick with radiation, or engineer chem/bio agents, or figure out how to rig international trade institutions and tax policy to outsource our jobs. It just recognizes that sports is a new profession worth of respect and ought to be institutionalized into our academic/institute system the way other professions and industries are. Take the rogue element out of sports. Put it under the rubric of oligarchy, too.

Go, CBernie, go!


jaybate 2 years, 9 months ago

P.S.: To distill all of the above, a professional athlete need be seen now as a respected profession, instead of a freakish by product of market and institutional inefficiecies.

P.S.: If any one knows CBernie, show this to her. She will scoff at it to you, but she will immediately recognize the "development" opportunity and it takes someone like her, or Hemenway, someone who really knows how to operate a bureaucracy like a major university, and knows how institutes work, to fit the pieces together. The words "national repository" are the academic bureaucratic equivalent of "there's gold in them thar hills."


jaybate 2 years, 9 months ago

But then sports would be properly integrated back into the university in our society. The university's opportunity for "development" would be significantly increased. All aspects of the sports industry would get the efficiency benefits of dealing with professional athletes with education. The NBA would be getting guys with enough education that they can be effectively showcased and marketed. They will have fewer failures from drafting uneducated, often functionally illiterate, undeveloped potential. The schools will have more rich alumni making and holding on to more money that they will eventually donate back to the university. The players will be empowered and become the respected professionals that they ought to be in our society, based on the fantastic sums of money that they can generate for organizations.

Parents can say, "I want my son (or daughter) to grow up to be a doctor, or a laywer, an accountant, a high tech CEO, or a sports professional."

Not just a professional basketball player with a short career being hosed every step of the way by economic predators benefitting from players without educations.

The beauty of our economic system occurs when it harnesses the self-interests of all involved in a goal that include making everyone better off.

This is completely feasible in this situation, if the Universities, the NBA, and all the industries profitting from the game, take off the blinders.

Rock Chalk!


jaybate 2 years, 9 months ago

This is a potential academic development gold mine and the flipping backward thinking persons in academics are overlooking it.

Imagine connecting this pre professional sports track degree program, with an institute, and then connecting all of that to sports administration, sports apparel industries, sports broadcasting and sports medicine industries!

KU should leap into this plan and quickly use its lobbying power--the state of Kansas grain and oil lobbies could ram this through in an eye blink if there were something in it for them--to become the national repository for pre-professional sports education. Any school that attaches itself to the Federal teat as a national repository of anything is instantly enriched beyond what most of us can grasp.

But Chancellor Bernie could grasp this. And if anyone could pull this sort of thing off, she would be the one. She's got the connections in London. She's got the connections with the Kansas oil and gas and grain folks. She's got the connections within the University, at KUAD and I would guess nationally in the academic administration field.

And in the background, over at the Hall's institute, she's got one of the ranking genius of shaking the money tree, former Chancellor Bob Hemenway.

Between Chancellor Bernie and Bob, this could be "developed" and valving money in Lawrence and Kansas within a few short years.

The first university, to get through to David Stern's Outlook linked brain, and enrolls him with this idea, the first university that pioneer this is going to have institute jobs and research grants and donations that dwarf the cash cycles of half the institutes on the campus right now.

Then if someone smarter than me can figure out how to tie this all into defense and intelligence, or some other hog trough agency at the Federal level, the KU Institute of Professional Sports Research, or more likely the Grantor X Institute of Professional Sports Research, will become the biggest institute on the campus, outside of certain hard sciences that have long whored themselves out to the military-academic-industrial complex. No institute can compete with those funding black holes.


jaybate 2 years, 9 months ago

"Keep'em Four Years in a Pre-Professional Sports Major and Degree Program Tied to an Institute: or Make the Players, the NBA and Universities Vastly Richer"

The NBA would be better off with a bunch of college educated professionals.

The NBA players would be better off being college educated professionals.

And there are now so many jobs in professional basketball outside the NBA that probably half to two thirds of the guys can get professional basketball jobs now.

D1 schools need to approve the creation of pre-professional basketball majors in an existing Bachelor's degree program, the same as there is a pre med and pre-law programs for students that want to become doctors and lawyers.

The reality today is that being a professional basketball player today is running a business. It requires a player be able to hire and work intelligently with lawyers, accountants, trainers, a PR person, have some IT skills, understand a foreign language, understand tax laws impacting income earned in foreign countries, manage insurance and understand using insurance to allay injury risk.

A professional basketball player today, whatever level he plays at, is either an enterprise that needs a skilled person at the head of it, or a sucker ready to be fleeced like some punch drunk club fighter by an unscrupulous manager and the boys down town.

Create a pre-basketball major that is geared to turn these players in to lean, mean enterprise machines that make them economic forces to be reckoned with, and they will gladly stay in college four years to prepare to not be screwed.

Then set up insurance programs to allay their risk of staying in school, then pay them enough to live simply on, while they are getting the business educations they need, and, boom, you have solved this problem.

Set the program up in the business schools, and the business schools will have famous graduates to help them attract more regular business school grads.

The mega rich pros will probably come back and set up an institute in the business school that will let some tired professor jump into fund development for the institute and out of the grind of teaching. This is how it is done in every other field of academic and professional endeavor.

Hell, there ought to be a pre-franchise owership track too.


jaybate 2 years, 9 months ago

Nix this photo of Self putting his hands in conjuring position. It does him no justice. While he approaches wizard status, he is not quite there and when he gets there he will use a magic wand instead of these hand gestures.


Tony Bandle 2 years, 9 months ago

My Goodness, Bill's Toupee never looked better!!. It appears to have some natural streaking rrom sun exposure. Anyone who takes care of his hair with such detail has gotto be a great coach!!! :)

The one and done rule should be the one that's done.

I am excited about the upcoming because of all the unknowns. It's finally a season whereby we are not "loaded" per se and the expectations from the outside are lessened.

Looking at the roster the potential for an outstanding team is there: PG - Tyshawn, Naadir, Christian, Niko SG - Elijah, BenMac, Conner, Jordan Swing - Travis, Kevin, Merv PF - TRob, Jamari, Justin C - Jeff, Braedon,

Questions to be answered: 1] Will Tyshawn reach his potential and be "The Man"? 2] Is Naadir as good as he seems to be? 3] Not listed on the roster, did Christian walk on somewhere UCONN? 4] Is Niko a capable practice player? 5] Will Elijah be allowed to be Elijah? 6] It's not a matter of can he shoot, but will BenMac shoot enough? 7] Is Conner a true Division One rotation player? 8] How long will Jordan's Senior Speech run? 9] Can a healthy Travis be the Travis of last season before the injuries? 10] Can Hudy tone up Kevin enough to be a force on the court? 11] Ditto for Merv? 12] Can TRob avoid getting the fouls and missing the foul shots? 13] Can Jamari become Jayhawk Beast JR behind TRob? 14] Will Jeff score, block shots and rebound like a true Div.One 7 footer? 15] Will Braedon make every foul count and rattle the teeth of his opponent?

Bonus Question: Will Coach Dooley smile just once this next season?


BPSkelly 2 years, 9 months ago

Despite his denying it, there is no question the dealings of the Henry's and Selby's investigations had to take a toll. Maybe just a little, but nonetheless those are the "one and done" memories that are fresh.

I for one dont begrudge any kid that goes pro. Not at all. But having some semblance of rules more comparable to Baseball or Football would help. It would help the NBA get more seasoned players (and hopefully more mature players... one can hope). It would help the college game by simply allowing players to develop longer. The improvement in play would help both.

It would also help the kid as well. Legitimately good enough to go pro prior to college? Go. Weather you are or arent, you have the option. If you go to college (either Juco or 4 year) instead of play for your stats or to get noticed, odds are you'll develop more as a player. No downside there.

Im not to ate up about it either way. I just know dealing with "X" 2 years ago, and Selby last year seemed to add up to a whole lotta extra drama that is entirely unnecessary. There has to be a better way.


kennethterry92 2 years, 9 months ago

If the NBA changed the oad rule and let kids go right out of high school would we ever see say the top 20 ranked kids as per Rivals or Scout ever play college ball ?


justinryman 2 years, 9 months ago

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.


IrishDaddy 2 years, 9 months ago

waaaaa waaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, cry me a river...


Kevin Heath 2 years, 9 months ago

If the rule were to change requiring the players to be three years beyond high school the only people disappointed would be the high school kids.

1) NBA owners would love not shelling out lots of money on "potential." Only 7 of the over 40 players drafted right out of high school made an All-NBA team. It goes without saying there is benefit to playing in college, if nothing else to weed out the average guys.

2) Current NBA fringe players would love to not think of losing their roster spot to a guy who might play <5 minutes a game because he has "potential" to become good.

There are plenty of jobs in the US which currently have an age requirement to perform them even though younger people may be perfectly capable of the job. Most notably, rememeber there is an age requirement to run for congress or become president (feel free to insert your obvious age and elected official joke here).

I guess I just think in the NBA both the owners and the current players would not only benefit, but appreciate an infiltration of unproven talent into the league.

How about this:

1) People become draft eligible when they are three years beyond high school.

2) There are plenty of professional leagues around for player to play for cash should they desire prior to that time.

3) Those who attend college must stay for three years. If they leave college early they cannot play in the lower professional leagues. In other words they can't go to college for one year then decide they want option 2 from above.

The current system is abusive to the college game. As far as I remember there has been only 1 one-and-done player who really helped/carried his team to an NCAA title, and as KU fans, we all know that name.

I know my above thoughts would likely never fly, but that is what I'd like to see.


Funhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

The above picture of Bill is one of my two favorites. He looks like a cat getting ready to pounce on a mouse. My other favorite picture is of Disco Bill. Bill is a fun coach.


Woody Cragg 2 years, 9 months ago

If they are truly teachers, none would approve of the OAD rule. Guess we know the slime that tops the list of "others."


nuleafjhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

I think Coach is telling us (fans) what we want to hear, but I would be very surprised if he really believes that this will ever happen. I'm sure he wants it to, as do we all, but once the virus (NBA) takes hold no amount of logic, rationality or morality will cure it, it just has to run its course.

Since this whole one and done disease has shown its ugly head, it has done nothing but weaken college basketball. There have been a handful of beneficiaries and a plethora of victims. In case you wondered, I'm slightly in favor of student/athletes being actually that and staying in college until they graduate.

In my humble opinion, there haven't been more than probably 20 kids in the past 20 years ( I know someone will immediately check the records to prove me wrong! ) who were legitimately good enough players to go from High School to the NBA, or even good enough to go after one year of college.

ALMOST none of these kids are as good as they believe they are. It's not their fault that they believe this - they've been told since probably 6th grade how unbelieveable they are, how talented they are and when you're fed garbage for several years, garbage becomes standard fare. You can't help but believe it. It's not fair to the kids, and it's not fair to the Universities that spend endless amounts of time and money recruiting them.

If anyone in the NBA hierarchy had a conscience, I would plead with them to eradicate this nonsense, let these kids mature physically, socially and mentally, let them enjoy their college experience, have fun and learn the game before swooping in like a starving vulture on a road-kill skunk. But, since they don't - I won't. Man - I guess I'd better go to church. I think I have issues.


dgaskill 2 years, 9 months ago

Looks like CBS is getting tired of being used (or is it Hosed ) by over hyped High School players.


andersonalex 2 years, 9 months ago

I'm still surprised legal action hasn't been taken against these organizations to force them to allow potential employees (players) to be able to apply at any time they want. They are offering jobs and restricting who may apply. Making matters worse, they're banning anyone who takes a job with them from seeking an education in that field afterwards.

Maybe this is a strange way of looking at it, but this really isn't how the rest of the business world is allowed to operate according to our laws. And this certainly is big business with profit driving the decision making. If this REALLY was about the concern for well-being of the students, we wouldn't tell a kid who failed to get a job in the NBA that he can't come back to school for that sport.

It's inconvenient for NBA teams if players don't turn out to be ready? It's inconvenient for coaches if players leave early? Welcome to the challenges that employers face.


vd 2 years, 9 months ago

Finally the LJW does a BB article. Only 4 monthes till the first game.


jcphawk 2 years, 9 months ago

I wonder how Coach Calipari would recruit if he had to actually get players that wanted to play more than one year. I would fully support any change that eliminated one and done. Make the decision, do you want to try for the NBA or do you want to be a student athlete.


jhox 2 years, 9 months ago

The NBA changed the rule that allowed players to come straight out of high school, because too many of those kids were getting picked high in the draft, only to wash out. Don't expect the NBA to change this rule soon. They like it just as it is. In the mean time, the elite programs which have a legitimate chance of landing the one and done type of kids, end up paying the price.


Mike Kendall 2 years, 9 months ago

Finally, somebody talking some common sense here---thanks Coach Self, for talking some common sense.

BTW, I long for the days to watch and cheer on players like Kirk Hinrich, Nick Collison, Ryan Robertson and yes, as someone mentioned above, Danny Manning.

Please NBA---change the rule!!!!!


theajayhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

Agree. However, colleges and college coaches have little say in this. NBA immensely benefits from this because the players become known commodities from that one year in college. Many Kansas fans won't have known Selby or Henry if they were able to go straight to the NBA. I doubt NBA will change anything.


Jayhawklegacy 2 years, 9 months ago

Hate the one and done rule! Coach Self could not of explained it better. Kentucky would not have a team if they didn't have one and dones. Calapari would have to find another way to cheat I mean recruit!!


kusportsdotcom 2 years, 9 months ago

you da man bill. i'm glad someone in that athletic department has some class.


gardenjay 2 years, 9 months ago

Thank you Bill. Remembering Danny Manning, and the true spirit of college basketball will only improve fandom and longevity of the sport, not to mention all the other positives mentioned by HCBS. A win win.


waywardJay 2 years, 9 months ago

I think this may be confirmation that Bill Self is going back to less flash and more substance in his recruiting.... recruiting the needs and the positions and letting the players fill out.

I think this is genius coaching.


Scott MacWilliams 2 years, 9 months ago

First again! THe Left Coast review is ON!

I can't agree more with HCBS. The 1&done deal just ain't working, and little tweaks aren't going to improve it. Lets lobby for the baseball rule and give everybody a better chance.

Rock CHalk!!


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