Monday, January 17, 2011

Baylor big man Perry Jones could play big role in Big Monday battle with Kansas

Baylor center Perry Jones (5) drives to the basket past Iowa State forward Jamie Vanderbeken during the first half of their game Saturday in Ames, Iowa. Though he had just 10 points and five boards against the Cyclones, Jones is considered by many to be a possible No. 1 pick in the upcoming NBA Draft. He’ll lead the Bears against KU in a Big Monday game tonight in Waco, Texas.

Baylor center Perry Jones (5) drives to the basket past Iowa State forward Jamie Vanderbeken during the first half of their game Saturday in Ames, Iowa. Though he had just 10 points and five boards against the Cyclones, Jones is considered by many to be a possible No. 1 pick in the upcoming NBA Draft. He’ll lead the Bears against KU in a Big Monday game tonight in Waco, Texas.



Charlie Neibergall/AP Photo

Baylor center Perry Jones (5) drives to the basket past Iowa State forward Jamie Vanderbeken during the first half of their game Saturday in Ames, Iowa. Though he had just 10 points and five boards against the Cyclones, Jones is considered by many to be a possible No. 1 pick in the upcoming NBA Draft. He’ll lead the Bears against KU in a Big Monday game tonight in Waco, Texas.

— Don’t look now, but after a lukewarm start, Baylor University freshman Perry Jones is beginning to live up to his billing as possible No. 1 pick in the 2011 NBA Draft.

“He’s 7-foot, can run, jump and put his head above the rim. From a pure prospect standpoint, there’s not a better athlete out there than Perry,” Kansas University coach Bill Self said.

The 6-foot-11, 235-pounder from Duncanville, Texas, who will start at forward in today’s Big Monday game against KU (8:30 p.m., Ferrell Center), combined for 45 points off 18-of-22 shooting in BU’s Big 12 opening victories over Oklahoma and Texas Tech.

He cooled off to the tune of 10 points off 5-of-9 shooting with five rebounds in Saturday’s 72-57 loss at Iowa State.

“He’s a good player, a great player. They say he’s No. 1 pick, so everybody thinks he’s that good,” KU junior Marcus Morris said of Jones, who averages 13.1 points and 7.3 rebounds while logging 31.6 minutes per game.

Jones has made 56.6 percent of his floor shots, but just 54.9 percent of his free throws and one of eight threes.

“We depend a lot on him. Getting him off to a good start in the Big 12 and getting him some confidence definitely will be beneficial,” Baylor coach Scott Drew said of Jones,’s No. 9-rated player in the Class of 2010.

“We’ve seen him do it in practice and games in different segments. We just need him to keep doing it,” Drew added.

Jones said he has changed his mind-set since the start of conference play.

“I have to be a beast on the court like coach Drew told me to be. Don’t be the nice guy that I am off the court,” Jones told “Coach Drew is helping me be more active on the defensive end as well as the offensive end.”

Eighth-year BU coach Drew — he has the Bears off to a 12-4 start, 2-1 in league play compared to KU’s 17-0, 2-0 mark — has cautioned fans to not expect too much from Jones

“What I have shared with Baylor people is sometimes the NBA doesn’t just draft on production, but on potential,” Drew said. has Jones projected to go No. 1 overall, while has him No. 2 in the June draft.

“Perry is somebody that in 10 years is going to be a much better player than he is now. If the average fan watches and says, ‘Why isn’t he dominating more, doing more?’ He just turned 19,” Drew said.

He’s advanced for his age.

“We have been so blessed and fortunate in the Big 12. Look at the great players we have had in the last few years,” Drew said. “People you saw like a Kevin Durant — 6-10, 6-11 — he (Jones) can do those things.

“Blake Griffin, Michael Beasley ... I think Perry will be able to do some things that are just special.”

Drew says Jones has been a joy to coach.

“He has such an unselfish nature because he is a such a team-oriented guy,” Drew said.

KU freshman Josh Selby, who played in the 2010 McDonald’s All-America game with Jones, lauded both Jones the player and person.

“He’s great. He’s crazy (athletic),” Selby said, shaking his head for emphasis. “He seemed like a cool guy.”

Jones and senior guard LaceDarius Dunn — who exploded for 43 points against Morgan State — give the Bears a powerful inside/outside presence. The 6-4 Dunn averages 22.3 points a game off 44.8 percent shooting. He has made 54 of 129 threes for 41.9 percent.

Dunn — he has 2,029 career points — needs just 161 points to pass Terry Teagle as Baylor’s all-time leading scorer.

“Lace is nice, man,” KU junior Tyshawn Taylor said of Dunn, who scored 27 points off 8-of-14 shooting (5-8 from three) in KU’s 81-75 victory over Baylor last year in Allen Fieldhouse. “We’ve got to lock in on him. He will put his shots up. He’ll get points. It’s hard to stop him from scoring, but we have to make it hard for him to score. If we do that, it’ll be fine.”

“We know he can score,” Self added of Dunn, who has made a three in a school-record 30 straight games. He hit a school-record 10 treys against Morgan State and went 4-of-11 from three in Saturday’s loss in Ames.

“He can make hard shots. He’s great at that. He makes shots guys don’t take,” Self added.

BU also has a double-digit scorer in Quincy Acy, a 6-7 junior who averages 13.6 ppg.

“Acy is a monster. He’s a freak,” Taylor said. “We just have to come out and do what we do.”

Baylor — which Self says is the most athletic team KU will have faced so far this season —has won four of its last five games after a stretch in which the Bears dropped three of four.

“Baylor is good. They are long,” said Self, who has a 7-1 record versus BU; Drew is 1-7 versus KU. “I’m sure it will be a good atmosphere there. Winning on the road is hard no matter what. We’ll have to play a heck of a lot better than we played the last three games. We’ve got to make shots (against BU’s zone) and get better play than we’ve gotten so far.”

After tonight, KU is idle until Saturday, when the Jayhawks play host to Texas in a 3 p.m. tipoff.


100 9 years ago

Jayhawks: It's all about passionate defense, boxing out & passing....

Own the stat sheet!!!!!!!!!!

Do those fundamentals well & have some fun tonight!

Rock Chalk!

s6u6r6f 9 years ago

And, dare I say, free throws...

Rock Chalk

Brad Avery 9 years ago

One of the overlooked aspects of making free throws in a game is how you warm up.. Free throws are a rhythm shot reliant on muscle memory. If one doesn't shoot freethrows prior to the game, he will tend to aim the ball rather than shoot it in rhythm. The usual result is the clang you hear when the ball contacts the rim. I observed how many KU players shot free throws before the Nebraska game. There may have two or three guys who randomly wandered over and took a couple of shots.There was no organized effort to make sure that at least the starters shot 10-15 free thorws. The results speak for themselves.

honk_for_hawks 9 years ago

I couldn't agree with this more. I'm not the best free throw shooter, but last year before the intramural quarterfinals, a few of us got there pretty early and shot around to get lose. I decided it would be a good idea to have a free throw contest between the 3 of us, so we shot free throws for maybe 15-20 minutes. Turned out the game was a lot closer than we expected it to be because the other team's best player got hot late and started hitting a lot of contested threes. We had to go to line quite a few times during the last couple minutes and between the three of us that had warmed up before the game, we went 16-16 from the line in the last 2 or 3 minutes. So I definitely think it would be a good idea to shoot some free throws during warm ups.

Alohahawk 9 years ago

The Hawks can't let the Bears get an early lead. This is an away game and we won't have that sixth man, the crowd, to help us come back. I think our bigs are proud enough to hold their own. Plus, I bet Self laid into them for their poor rebounding against Nebraska, which, because they were beat so bad, may prove a Godsend. But freethrows and three pointers will tell the tale.

It's going to be a rough, tough game, but we've had a lot of practice with close shaves. I'll pick the Hawks by 4 points.

waywardJay 9 years ago

This is alot different team than Nebraska on the post though. J'mison isn't alemida.

For tonight, I think we should start mario instead of Josh. After Josh's struggles he might need a bit of extra motivation, and frankly.... we need the size on Acy. If Releford's available, then releford, but TY, Tyrel, Mario and Morri, give us the best chance to win this game to start.

KUFan90 9 years ago

This game scares me. Zone, dominating inside presence, and scary good 3 pt potential are all KU danger areas.

Like Self said, the hawks have got to step it up better than they have the last 3 games.

Positives are that TRob seems to have shaken off the cobwebs, and I expect keiff and selby to have better games as well...certainly EJ and TT could step it up too.

Well need a solid contribution from everyone for a W.

KGphoto 9 years ago

The fact that they play in a Feral Center is pretty sad. Only in Waco would the public pay to see a Feral basketball team. Sickos I tell ya!

But beware Hawks, this could be a wild one ; )

Robert Murphy 9 years ago

This could easily be the start of four loses in a row. Let's face it, Kansas basketball does not have the talent to win the big twelve. For too many games they have looked mediocre. Not only is Selby not John Wall but so far he's also no Sherron Collins. Withy has not panned out and the Morris twins are too small to compete with the monsters of the midway (rebounding). Robinson is our only man on the floor. Can he guard Perry Jones? I doubt it. If Morningstar and Reed are your two best guards then it's all but over for this team. We have been fooled by too many dunks and layups. The current rank is a total joke. Sorry to be so negative. I wish it weren't so. Love to be proved wrong. On the floor, not the blog.

Clarence Haynes 9 years ago

I think that you are a bit critical of KU's talent level and If we were to listen to you, KU should not show up! To use the old saying "this is why they play the game"! We'll see!

FairgroveJayhawk 9 years ago

bobbyfistula, jayhawkinnebr... same person... same keyboard.

Martin Rosenblum 9 years ago

Only difference is jayhawinebr doesn't have command of the English language, as bobbyfi..does. He is correct about Selby not being a Sherron or Wall at this point. But, Sherron wasn't Sherron his first year either. Otherwise, he's conducting a cranial proctological self-exam !

jayhawkjunior 9 years ago

But Sherron was Sherron in his last year. This is Selby's last year and we aren't getting any quality penetration of the lane from him like advertised. Whether he has a good game or not right now is totally dependent on shooting threes and they haven't been falling.

meremy 9 years ago

I agree, we'll lose some games. But the big xiii winner is going to lose a few. So no, I don't agree that we don't have the ability to win the conference. No one ever said this was a top heavy team. Where we lack superstars, we more than make up with depth. When your analysis includes Releford, Ej, Little, TT... Fact is, and I think you know this to be true, we have 9 guys who can compete. If anything, this team has shown itself to be a (opposing) coach's nightmare. Not Explosive scoring but definitely dynamic.

I don't miss the days when if we couldn't play through Sherron, we were lost.

Theutus 9 years ago

Couldn't have said it better myself... I hated the days of playing everything through Sherron. That wasn't KU basketball, and doing so got us an early exit on 1 guys bad game...

I'd much rather see a couple early losses and end up with a more functional team game come march.

kthawk 9 years ago

Ignore Fistula! He is a troll. His name means alternative a-hole.

oldrocker 9 years ago

Yeah, we really stink this year...what do the pollsters know (ranked #3), or Scott Drew, who thinks we are the team to beat in the Big 12. We haven't beaten anybody (Ariz. 15-3, Valpo. 14-5, Memphis 13-4) and after losing Collins, Aldrich & Henry we have no talent on the team whatsoever. It is only by luck that we are 17-0....Give me a break!

bobbysfissure - Proverbs says that "even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent"...I think you would be wise to keep your comments to yourself.

Tony Bandle 9 years ago

At 4:51 am, Bobby may have been a little drowsy. If you look at our schedule , we have three of the top four teams in the West at home [Texas, Okie State and A&M]. That wiill be a huge advantage as the season pans out.

This last season of the Big Twelve will be a war with 12-4 maybe good enough to win it all. Why not be proved wrong on both the floor and the blog? Your concerns are indeed valid, but I feel this team has still not peaked yet.

We'll see!!

PS You still have on the all-time great posting IDs :)

Ron Prichard 9 years ago

You're absolutely right...we stink! I mean, we needed overtime to beat Michigan. I mean, just look at what Ohio State did to them. Oh, wait...four point game? Well, then there is that unbelievably talented Dook team. No one can play with them, right?'re saying they lost? To who? Florida State? A team that got dominated by Virginia Tech? While we were battling Nebraska, Dook was losing in the second half to Virginia? Really? Jeez...OSU and Dook must really suck, too. No talent, no teamwork, no coaching.

Are we going to go undefeated this year? No. Do we have as much talent as anyone in the Big XII and maybe the country? Yes. Do we have one of the best coaches in the country? Yes. Would 99% of college basketball fans around the country take our team and coach over theirs? Yes.

Get some perspective.

Dyrk Dugan 9 years ago

has to happen sometime.

Baylor 73 KU 66

Martin Rosenblum 9 years ago

It does not have to happen sometime. It is the will of the team. It is not a forgone conclusion because Baylor has a couple of productive players. We have Morris and Company. Look for Dunn to be shut down by our committee.

DevilHawk 9 years ago

Make them play to their ability from the start of the game.

Should be a good game.

Marcia Parsons 9 years ago

We recruited Jones hard, so at least all the coaches should be familiar with all his moves.

waywardJay 9 years ago

Max... I think we can muscle Perry.It's not decidedly Self-esque coaching, but i think we can intimidate him a little. He's athletic as hell, and talented. But he's not been through Hudy's weight Program ( and if there IS a team Withey's is big enough to play against ..... this is the team ) Aside from J'mison none of their bigs are that physical.

Michael Bratisax 9 years ago

It does have to happen sometime... A loss at Baylor and a win at home against Texas.

If we can hold at home and win 4 or 5 on the road, I think we win or tie for the Big 12 title.

Martin Rosenblum 9 years ago

This year's B12 tournament will be a hard fought, battle. Regular season so far speaks to the lack of a true pecking order. I agree with an earlier comment that no one will end up the regular conference season without an L. Question is, obviously,to whom and where will we lose?

KansasComet 9 years ago

This will be a great measuring stick for KU. I hope Morningstar does not guard LaceDarius Dunn, because he will get torched! Looking forward to seeing Selby take over a game.

jayhawkjunior 9 years ago

Baylor is not a good team. Their best win is against kenpom rated 111 Arizona St. They have lost to KenPom rated 35, 38, 43 and 32 (Every top 100 team they have played). Admittedly, those are the type of teams that KU is barely beating but I'd rather be barely winning then barely losing.

AirCapJay 9 years ago

Kenpom: KU 3, Baylor 49 RPI: KU 1, Baylor 101

KU will win tonight if they show up to play.

Kye Clark 9 years ago

That's pretty counter-intuitive - to say you don't like the way this team has been playing lately, but that Baylor's play in their last game - getting waxed by an Iowa St. team we just beat - is a reason why they will win the game?

Ian Brown 9 years ago

I posted this on the Cram Session article, but I thought I'd post it here as well. My thoughts on tonights game:

UCLAs big that outmuscled KU was Joshua Smith, not Josh Williams, Keegan. You must be thinking of Arizona's Derrick Williams, who also dominated our bigs.

I'll go ahead an predict an upset. Baylor 89-Kansas 83. I have a feeling Baylors bigs will dominate ours. Perry Jones, Acy, and 6'10" Anthony Jones, are by far the most talented and most athletic front line we have seen this year, and we've seen what even mediocre front lines have down to our bigs down low.

Also, I believe Dunn could be a huge problem for us. On paper we have good 3pt defense, but it is, I believe, very deceiving. In the games I've seen (all of them), our entire team, not just our guards, have been terrible at guarding the 3. I've seen way too many open looks and I've been unimpressed with our ability to fight through screens (especially without Releford in the line-up.) The reason our opponent 3pt percentage is so low is simple, we've gotten lucky. Other teams simply have not been hitting many of the open opportunities we have given them. However, we cannot bank on such luck as the season continues, especially not in tonights gsme with a 3pt threat like Dunn. In addition to Dunn, Baylor also has AJ Walton who shoots 41 percent from long range.

Long story short, with our defensive problems this year, I don't like the way we match up against the Bears, especially in Waco. Like I said, I expect an upset. Baylor 89-Kansas 83.

Kye Clark 9 years ago

I share your concerns about our post defense. However, it is too easy to say that after 17 games it is a statistical anomaly and that other teams are just missing open shots; that we are lucky through a 17 game sample. Obviously in most games there will be an open look or two given up. I'd venture to say that is the case for most teams' defenses. That being said, the vast majority of outside shots have been contested. Just wondering how many games need to go by before you give this team some credit.

Ian Brown 9 years ago

I love this team. I think we will be a really, really good team by March. I believe they're a Top-5 team. However, at this point, you are correct; I do need some more time before I am sold on the defensive end, especially. I would like to see Kansas come out tonight and improve upon the areas I believe need improvement. It seems as though I am in the minority in my opinion of this teams strengths and weaknesses, but like I've said before--please Kansas, prove me wrong tonight. I love this team.

KU_FanSince75 9 years ago

I agree with Alohajayhawk----KU wins a close one! Jayhawks have been battle tested more than the Bears, however, the Jayhawks will have to play large tonight.

Attack the zone, win the boards, hit the free throws, play lock-down D-----equals winning the game!

Most of the time, the South arenas don't sell out---wonder if there will be a lot KU fans in the Arena?

Can you believe it?! A quadruple header on ESPN, beginning at 2:30 p.m. The Kitty Kat game at Missery is the second of the four games, with the Jayhawks finishing off the night! I get to watch all four games! Wow! It will be a fun day and night, especially, if the Jayhawks can find someway to win tonight's game! Good luck, Hawks! Rock Chalk!

Robert Brock 9 years ago

KU struggles against zones and that is what Baylor utilizes. Taylor and Selby need to resist their habit of dribbling into trouble. Find the creases. Move. Pass. Stroke some shots.

rwhawk 9 years ago

"“Perry is somebody that in 10 years is going to be a much better player than he is now.""

Wow, thanks for the insight Drew.

jayhawkjunior 9 years ago

1) Put Thomas and Markieff down low and get Marcus to the middle of the zone. 2) Pass the ball to Marcus 3) Watch the magic happen 4) Repeat

Marcus can shoot from midrange or go to the hole if Kieff and Trob block out.

JayDocMD 9 years ago

Jones and Dunn. One has jaw-dropping potential. The other has jaw-breaking strength.

Dunn should be in prison. The people of Texas should be paying for his room and board in a prison instead of a place of higher education (I use that term lightly.)

Scott Smetana 9 years ago

I think we've gotta hit the 3 like crazy to win tonight... good time to break out of a slump. Baylor may have us on talent (RARE thing for us), but we have big time depth and coach Self! Baylor 80 KU 65

Marcia Parsons 9 years ago

I don't understand your post, Smitty. You say we have great depth and a great coach, and are going to lose by 15 points.??? And I question whether they have us on talent.

waywardJay 9 years ago

on the starting 5 maybe.... but backline they don't.....

Ej,Mario, Thomas, and Travis ( if healthy ) are better than their bench player equals......

People forget how much weight and muscles the morri have added on. We forget how much they have been through. tonight. thjey get a chance to teach Baylor's young bigs how to PLay big 12 basketball.

We went up to hilton and played solid and beat a very tough team. They went up to Hilton and lost to a very tough team.

To think there is no shot of us winning, that entirely depends on Self.

This game belongs to the pseudo 3's..... Tyrel's jump shooting, Mario's mid range, and Marcus's ability to morph into what we need at any given moment.

I think we need to drop tyrel down to the two, bring Self as energy off the bench, and start Mario... he's a better match up for ACY and Tyrel's a good starting matchup on Lace.

EJ, Selby as first guards off and Thomas ( Hopefully Travis ) could have huge games.

Expect the Morris Bros to play max minutes tonight, foul trouble will be the only thing that takes them off the floor.

Dubsix 9 years ago

I wouldn't give Baylor too much credit. Yes they are a descent team with good players, and yes they will give us a good tough game, but KU definitely has a shot to win. BU has yet to beat anyone that is good this year. Gonzaga, Washington St, and Florida St have all beaten BU this year, and now Iowa St. just beat them. They are beatable, and they are about to play against the best team they have played all year.

Greg Lux 9 years ago

This game will be a double digit win for one of these teams. If KU doesn't come out strong and make at least 50% of their 3's they could lose by 15 or more. Baylor is a wild card team. If they play well they will be awful hard to beat. We have to block out and rebound in this game or we stand little chance of winning. As they say .." It's show time " and we need to show up and play a lot better then we have so far this year. Come on Jayhawks you can do it, but you have to think and execute this game. No silly turnovers !!!

Rock Chalk

Jeff Coffman 9 years ago

It comes down to 3 things: 1) Morris Brothers can't get into Foul trouble down low....which they have been in much better control thanks to Bill Self's tough coaching lesson. 2) Guards can't turn it over...again message sent to the guards in the Nebraska game...hopefully it will take hold (which based on Bill Self's record, I would say a good chance). 3) Guards have to shoot better in the zone, One of the things I've been surprised about this season is a lot of our guards have missed wide open 3s, especially in the zone. If you make those, the zone falls apart and everything opens up.

Anyways, tough D and good boards.

Let's go win big. Looking at Baylor's record, they've lost to every decent team they've played and won the easy ones. Their two wins in conference play are to TT and OU, definitely the bottom dwellers. Additionally they got run out of the building in Iowa State. I don't think ISU is a pushover, but they were run out of the builder.

jayhawkjunior 9 years ago

Baylor hasn't scored over 75 against a team in the top 200 on KenPom. That could happen if we play fast and give them more possessions. The issue for us is scoring. Our offense has been struggling. We aren't creating fast break opportunities and so we're having to run the half-court every time down the floor. Unfortunately we are giving up fast break chances for the other team. We will need 1 great point guard tonight or several good ones to win this game. Step Up Guards!

Scatterhawk 9 years ago

Pretty sure that's how you win every game in every sport. Except golf.

hawk_of_ages 9 years ago

Baylor hasn't scored 75 points yet, but they WILL against one of the top 10 defenses in the country? Interesting prediction.

Tony Bandle 9 years ago

Tonight...Kansas could win by 15 or lose by 15.

Screen off Jones...harass hard, smart and valueing the ball will produce a W.

Let their bigs dominate....let Dunn fire away....turnovers, poor shooting and foul trouble will produce a L.

I sure wish Releford could play...he would be in Dunn's jock strap all night!!

Ron Franklin 9 years ago

Had to make the trip from KC to Chesterfield today.....was sure to spit out the window for you about half way!!

Tony Bandle 9 years ago


I"d take a pee but the seat belt is too tight!!

Martin Rosenblum 9 years ago

Where is KUwells in all of this? He's our Texas insider.

hawksince51 9 years ago

Looking forward to see how our Bigs handle Jones--I fear serious foul trouble but hope I'm wrong. Also, we will get more needed real game practice against the zone D. You gotta figure Baylor will be up for this game like no other so far this year. A real challenge for the team and coaching staff. Our depth and superior talent at most positions should result in a W if we can hit a reasonable % of FT's and 3's. rock chalk

KULA 9 years ago

I figure Dunn will get at least three 4pt plays tonite on account of Brady fouling on 3's. I sure wish Withey could get a chance to defend Jones for a few minutes, just to see what he can do. I know I'm dreaming though. Bill's surely afraid Jones will explode for 20 in the 3 minutes Withey is in.

tis4tim 9 years ago

My thoughts on Withey too. If nothing else, I'd love to see Withey harass Jones into a couple cheap fouls, protecting the twins from some cheap ones of their own as they are prone to collect.

Scott Smetana 9 years ago

Good point above on missing Releford. He is the perfect person to guard Dunn.
We've played down to our competition many times this year, now time to play up!
Bring it on, we need this!

BCRavenJHawkfan 9 years ago

So Baylor is a very good Big XII team. Very good zone defense.

How exactly did Iowa State thump them?

Ty Mar 9 years ago

I was thinking the same thing..I'm guessing matchup problems along with poor shooting..i didn't watch the game so i'm not sure.

This game scares me, if we don't go up strong with the ball everytime (dunks, hard off the glass) Baylor will make us pay. Baylor is a huge team-it will be interesting to see how our post defense handles them.

We need to come out fully energize or it will be a long long night. Floaters will not get it done against this team.

AsadZ 9 years ago

Three pointers. I dont remember the stats but they shot a very high % beyond the arc.

Brian Powell 9 years ago

The sky if falling, the sky is falling!

I think we have a good amount of road experience by now, and will pull this one out as well.

I look for all of the players to come out of their funks at the same time, and put on a show that will surprise for the naysayers up there. We'll bring our A game and be amped BECUASE we're on the road against some talent. I'd be more worried if we played them in Allen all lax and comfortable.

Predicting scores is for the birds. But I'll guess we win by double digits :)

KGphoto 9 years ago

I could see Selby having a big night. He seems a little scared playing at home. But not so much on a big national stage. A national away game is exactly how he started his career in dominating fashion.

I Rock Selby.

Kurt Eskilson 9 years ago

Good point Selbyville. Selby's first game was at home. He scored 21 versus USC in a nail-biter we won by 2. He didn't seem so scared then. His "down" games were at home against UT-Arlington (2 points) and Nebraska (3), and away at Michigan (5) on a CBS-broadcast "national stage." I'm not seeing KG's trend either.

KGphoto 9 years ago

Well slap my face and call me Earl! You're right.

Don't know what I was thinking. For some reason though, he still strikes me as a big-game guy. Like he's ready for the spotlight.

In my somewhat pathetic defense, and in order for me to understand my own comment, I didn't see a whole lot of the games he played poorly, except for Nebraska. And I saw two games where he played well on national T.V., USC and Iowa St., I also followed closely the game at Cal which he played well.

I still got him tonight, based solely on my gut feeling, and the fact I believe he took Bill Self's "decision" for the last 16 minutes against Nebraska to heart.

Kurt Eskilson 9 years ago

I hope you're right about tonight, KG! It would be great to see Selby on the high side of his (so far) roller-coaster season.

jayhawkintexas 9 years ago

Fouls and three-point shooting will dictate the outcome of this game. Hang on to your hats, it's going to be a nail biter.

KU_FanSince75 9 years ago

@ jayhawkintexas----are you going to the game? Just curious.

Ty Mar 9 years ago

The basketball rim will be bent and the net torn by the end of the game.

jaybate 9 years ago


Your pointing out the example of the dream team in regards to impact and glue players interests me very much and it had not occurred to me. I am responding to your email on the story threads as I do, when my response to an email is lengthy, or something other than just simple agreement. I have not presented your email in any specificity here, because you contacted me by email, and so I have to assume you probably wished your take to be between us. It was a good take and it sure triggered alot of thought in me. What follows is my response, as time constraints today permitted. Kind of busy.

Distilled, I have been saying:

a) all effective teams I have seen on a court in high school, college and pro, are comprised of a mix of impact players and glue players in terms of roles played,

b) because of underlying structural (e.g., the pass and catch aspect enabled by the rules of game) and strategic dynamics of the game (the most fundamental being passing enabling higher percentage shooting--either of spot up shooting, or dribble-create shooting--and so there develops a strategic competitive advantage to the team that can leverage off specialization in one player with broad focus and keen passing skills and floor play skills tending to be selected as a glue man, while another player with narrow focus and the best shooting and dribbling skills tending to be selected as a shooter (called the impact man);

c) some players are better at being impact players, because of a tendency toward local focus, certain skill sets and certain physical abilities (basic asymmetry in distribution of these attributes among players); and

jaybate 9 years ago

d) other players are better at being glue players, because of tendency towards broad focus, certain skill sets, and certain physical abilities (again, basic asymmetry in distribution of the attributes among players);

e) many impact players struggle with the switch to glue roles because doing so de-emphasizes use of attributes they possess in most advantageous abundance; while emphasizing use of attributes they possess in less advantageous abundance

f) many glue players struggle with the switch to impact roles for the same reasons as cited in d above;

g) one cannot have a successful team composed entirely of impact players, or entirely of glue players, because such a team cannot exploit the structural and strategic aspects of the game with competitive advantage relative to a team making optimal use of these basic competitive advantages.

So: in the most inclusive sense of the data set available to me; that is, given all the teams that I have ever seen, a-g seem sound assertions.

But now you rightly point out this wonderful example of the dream team that I had overlooked.

It proves unequivocally that a team composed entirely of the greatest impact players in the world can be very good for a short series of games, so I certainly have to modify what I have been saying to fit this indisputable fact.

But in proving the above, it also raises a question?

Did some players on the dream team impact more than others?

Answer: in my recollection, yes.

Were some of the greatest impact players at the height of their careers and games and so tended to be the go-to guys in what few tough situations arose?

Answer: yes.

Did the basic structural (pass catch) and strategic elements (i.e., who was the more likely to score off a pass and who was the more likely to make the pass given the attribute sets match ups involved) of the game of basketball force several of them to take turns being the impact players, and the glue men?

Answer: yes.

jaybate 9 years ago

Were attribute sets asymmetrically distributed even among the greatest impact players in the world among players at any given position and did?

Answer: yes.

Did this asymmetric distributions among these players lead to one player tending to play an impact role and the other tending to play a glue role?

Answer: yes.

Did the coach of the dream team, and increasingly coaches of Olympic teams subsequent to the dream team, state that they were placing emphasis on finding team members that could play the go-to, and others that would be willing and able to play the glue roles, or switch off in filling these more glamorous and less glamorous roles?

Answer: Yes.

Did the dream team, or ensuing Olympic team coaches use the exact words of impact and glue?

Answer: Not that I recall, so it could be that these two terms are either unique to Bill Self, or are unwarranted oversimplifications by him.

Why does the above suggest the nature of players in terms of impact and glue roles in conventional high school, college, and professional basketball played in conventional seasons?

Is the dream team an exception that proves a rule that any player can switch frequently between impact and glue and be highly effective, too?

Answer: I doubt it. Why? Because one sees very, very few players doing it at any level of the game and unless coaches are completely biasing the observations with wrong headed thinking (which is possible but not probable), the sound inference remains most players at most levels of the game struggle with this role switch.

jaybate 9 years ago

Is the Dream Team team an exception that proves the rule that some impact players may be able to shift roles briefly and become effective glue players?

Answer: yes, but it does not indicate that all can do so, because even with the Dream Team there were some players that tended to play impact roles more of the time and others that tended to play glue roles more of the time.

Is the Dream Team an exception that proves that a team composed of the greatest impact players in the world can beat teams of players with significantly lesser talent composed of impact players and glue players?

Answer: It is hard for me to say, because it is a question that cannot really be proven, or disproven. Why? Because you probably cannot have a Dream Team play an NBA champion in a best of seven series, because some members of the Dream Team selected would probably always also be members of the NBA champion, too. I can only say that I have been a member of many teams that beat teams with significantly more talent, because we played better as a team, and those teams had impact and glue roles.

Rock Chalk!

It forces me to think much more deeply about what I have been writing about impact and glue roles and ab. Certainly, each player on the dream team was an impact player before he joined, just as every D1 scholarship player that plays major minutes, and even most that play minor minutes, at a major program were impact players in high school, before becoming D1 players.

The inferences to be drawn from your dream team example so far, IMHO, are:

a) some impact players are good enough to stay impact players at any level;

b) some impact players can shift roles and become good glue players, when that is their only option to play on that team;

c) some impact players cannot shift roles and become the best glue players, even when that is their only option to play; and

d) some impact can become glue players, when that is their only option to play.

c) some glue players can become impact players, when called upon to do so.

Your example is a good one. Perhaps others have raised it and I have overlooked their raising of it. If I analyze this further, I will post about it again

Rock Chalk!

ParisHawk 9 years ago

Isolated thoughts stirred by your analysis:

1) We never saw the real Dream Team. The first qualifying game, I believe they scored 48 baskets on 42 assists before calming down. Afterwards, they were never challenged and Jordan of all people switched off. Bird was nursing a sore back and Stockton was out with an injury.

2) That team had David Robinson, who later proved to be the best impact-to-glue center ever, plus Magic who had proved that glue could be the most impacting skill of all, plus players like Chris Mullin who had roles.

3) This all makes me think that "impact" and "glue" are a bit simplistic. - First, you have to talk about offense and defense separately: the chances for impact are different, and greater on offense. - Second, "impact" is in the eye of the beholder: Chalmers got showy steals out front and is venerated; X got steals underneath, led the team in that category and is a "sandbagger".

At the very least you have to add "roles" to the list: you need stuff to glue together.

"Glue" can mean different things. I think for Self it means getting the team to play the way he coaches it to play. "Impact" is for when that's not enough.

jaybate 9 years ago




KU_FanSince75 9 years ago

Must mean an extra coffee break for you jaybate! Love your posts, though!

Chris1955 9 years ago

Our family is going to the Baylor game tonight. I hope that KU is represented well in the stands. We're leaving at 4PM and hope to arrive about 7:45. Assuming the game ends at 11PM, I'm hoping we get home before 3AM! It's a good thing I'm working from home tomorrow!

SoCalAlum 9 years ago

Keys to the game (humbly submitted): 1. someone steps up and shows some lock-down D on LaceRidiculous - keep the dude from catching the ball; 2. keep bodies on Jones, so he doesn't get the motivation to throw it into "beast mode" (and yes, it's refreshing to know other teams have players that have "switches" for intensity as opposed to playing hard all the time; 3. Mario gets into the crease of the zone - this is the type of opponent/defensive scheme he was recruited for.

bayareajhawk 9 years ago

Well said. I agree with all of that and especially about Mario. He is an excellent scorer and all-around offensive ball player. Like Marcus, he's a triple threat and should be able to damage the zone by dribbling and then passing or shooting. I hope they both go off tonight.

Woody Cragg 9 years ago

Can I get some action on that losing four in a row deal? Wonder if we can getsome points too?! LOL

Dan Harris 9 years ago

I predicted Selby going off for 28 and the Hawks blowing out Nebraska , I was obviously off on my prediction so tonight I think Selby gets skunked and the Hawks lose their first game. A little reverse psychology.

JHawk74 9 years ago

I hope the starting lineup is Morris Twins, Little, Reed and Taylor tonight. I would rather see Selby start over Taylor (but Selby isn't quite ready to be the starting point guard right now). I think Reed can be the point guard but Self doesn't seem to use him as the point guard very often. Morningstar gets more time at the point than Reed. If we don't rebound well tonight we will get beat for sure. Baylor has better forwards and centers than Nebraska does.

ljmhawk 9 years ago

jones may be a stud...but whoever said he is strong is crazy! look at his Kevin durant arms....our bigs should have no problem pushing him around.

KU_FanSince75 9 years ago

@ jwliddell----Looks like the NIT for K-State---LOL. Sorry, Jacob. That's the way it is.

FairgroveJayhawk 9 years ago

You know, Martin really does resemble Bert.

Martin Rosenblum 9 years ago

KSuck going to 1-3.

Oh, Dickie V. would you like to reconsider your predictions?

Bob Houk 9 years ago

Can anyone tell me how to get the Big 12 Network. I am in S.E. KS and really would like to see the game. And I didn't get to be the #1 fan in my hometown by not being a true KU Jayhawk fan. They will somehow pull it out at the end.

MrPilot 9 years ago

It's actually being broadcast on ESPN (ch. 32 in the Wichita market).

REHawk 9 years ago

jwliddell: Infuriates me, too, that LJW messes with my capitalization. Some kind of communication glitch in transfer of posts. Whatever, it tends to make posters look dumb.

Bob Houk 9 years ago

Does anyone have that justintv//kansascitychiefs/ etc. I don't have the locals and missed this one at the beginning of the game.

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