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Kansas defeats UMKC, 99-52

  • 7 p.m., Jan. 5, 2011
  • Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, KS

Thursday, January 6, 2011

Well adjusted: Tyshawn Taylor comfortable with Josh Selby now

Coach Bill Self, far left, and players on the Kansas University bench get up in anticipation as the Jayhawks try to break 100 points against UMKC. The Jayhawks just missed, settling for a 99-52 victory Wednesday at Allen Fieldhouse.

Coach Bill Self, far left, and players on the Kansas University bench get up in anticipation as the Jayhawks try to break 100 points against UMKC. The Jayhawks just missed, settling for a 99-52 victory Wednesday at Allen Fieldhouse.

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KU vs. UMKC

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Kansas defeated UMKC, 99-52 on Wednesday, Jan. 5, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 99-52 victory over UMKC on Jan. 5, 2011.

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Reader poll

Which KU guard played best against UMKC?

  • Tyrel Reed (11 points, 4-for-5 shooting, 3-for-4 3s, 5 assists, 1 turnover, 5 steals) 41% 473 votes
  • Tyshawn Taylor (15 points, 4-for-9 shooting, 7 assists, no turnovers, 1 steal) 20% 235 votes
  • Josh Selby (16 points, 4-for-6 shooting, 2-for-3 3s, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, 4 steals, 4 rebounds) 30% 350 votes
  • Elijah Johnson (13 points, 5-for-11 shooting, 3-for-8 3s, 2 assists, 0 turnovers, 1 steal) 6% 70 votes
  • Other 1% 16 votes

1144 total votes.

It took Tyshawn Taylor 2 1/2 weeks — four games — to adjust fully to freshman sensation Josh Selby’s presence in Kansas University’s basketball lineup.

“I think it was (adjustment) for all of us, throwing a new player in after nine games. Even though he’d been practicing with us, he’d been on the second team a lot. I’d not been playing with him too much,” junior combo guard Taylor said after collecting 15 points and seven assists against no turnovers in the Jayhawks’ 99-52 rout of UMKC on Wednesday in Allen Fieldhouse.

In four games since Selby’s season debut against USC, Taylor had scored just 21 points off 8-of-22 shooting and committed 15 turnovers against 13 assists.

“I love playing with Josh. I think he’s perfect for our offense. He makes plays for himself and others. I think he’s perfect,” Taylor added.

Combo guard Selby had 16 points with seven assists against three turnovers on a night KU had six players score in double figures. The Jayhawks also forced 26 turnovers, thanks in large part to an effective 1-2-2 fullcourt press.

“The defenses have been playing us kind of weird. They’ve been sagging in a lot to help on the twins. The shots have been there, but I haven’t been taking them. I feel I have to start taking them and being more aggressive. I think I did that today,” Taylor said.

Taylor hit four of nine shots (one of three threes) and six of seven free throws.

He said he had a blast running the press.

“I like it. I think all of us like it. We can cheat and do things like that,” Taylor said, adding, “it helps slow the other team down. They’ve got to throw the ball back and forth. It’s been good for us.”

KU coach Bill Self liked Taylor’s play — “He was good, shot the ball well, was active defensively” — as well as the press.

“I think against certain teams it shortens the clock so they can’t run their stuff the entire 35 (seconds),” Self said. “We got quite a few steals off our press and turnovers today.”

Tyrel Reed (11 points, 3-for-4 from three) and Selby had five and four steals respectively on a night KU totaled 18 thefts to UMKC’s two. The Kangaroos had just four assists to KU’s 26.

Quick guards Taylor, Selby and Elijah Johnson (13 points) played several minutes together.

“I don’t know if that’s our best or most athletic team,” Self said. “We could make a strong case it is. Our best teams, I’ve played three little guards. It doesn’t matter to me, if one (of them) is tough enough to defend a three (small forward).”

The Jayhawks had several highlight-reel dunks.

KU led, 52-24, at the break and outscored UMKC, 47-28, the second half. Johnson missed a couple of late dunks preventing KU from winning the second half by 20 points, which was the goal during a season the Jayhawks have had trouble putting some teams away.

“Elijah will hear about it when we’re running tomorrow. He’s heard about it from us already,” Taylor said, laughing.

Johnson had a quick quip: “It’s kind of hard to do math when you are on the floor,” he said. “It’s hard to do math when we are running the floor and playing in a college basketball game.”

The laughs are over for a while.

KU travels to Big Ten school Michigan for a 3:30 p.m. tipoff Sunday, then opens Big 12 play at surprising Iowa State at 8 p.m. Wednesday.

Comments

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Wow...really ? Ya think ????

We are getting scary good. Elijah's continued Improvement is great news...... Still brady at 23 minutes is ridiculous..... He played better tonight, but that's going to be a problem when we play against better teams.

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Kye Clark 3 years, 7 months ago

Hilarious! Way to get that topic going right from the get-go (at 2 in the morning no less).

I agree, Brady played too many minutes as usual. And I didn't think he played all that much better. I missed the last 5 minutes of the game and from what I'm reading on other posts I'm assuming he was out there for much of the garbage time, so maybe he accumulated some of his stats then, but without rushing to the box score and just using the eyeball test...he wasn't very good last night.

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waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

i love the nightlife. i love to boogie. I love to catch that high.

The fact Brady is now playign garbage minutes is a major step in the right direction.

Love the starting lineup. Love the rotation of the bigs. Love the fact we got Travis willing to play anywhere from 1-5.

I'm stoked at where this team is going. Just wish the twins would lock in and destroy every frotn court they faced.

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jayhawktalk 3 years, 7 months ago

ict, he did pick up some garbage time minutes. So did EJ, for that matter, which is when he missed the 2 dunks.

Had EJ's defense, which was atrocious, been better, Brady's minutes would likely have been fewer. EJ needs to learn to find his man and/or spot on the press immediately after a score. He seems to lose his bearings and mentally relax a bit at times. No doubt he is going to be special, I think he's fantastic; we just need his head in the game and focused 100% of the time he is one the court.

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hawk316 3 years, 7 months ago

Is it just me or is Brady leaning quite a bit when he shoots from long distance? I don't recall him doing that in previous years, and I wonder if that is hurting his shot. His shooting percentage used to be much higher, so I suspect that the problem may be mechanical.

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LAJayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, he jumps forward. I've noticed it too. His shot does not flow this year, and I don't know why. Perhaps it's just mental, but it does not look good and the output backs that up -- 26% versus 40+% in his other 3 seasons.

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Milhouse 3 years, 7 months ago

Brady played well, but the number of minutes he played is inflated anyways because he played a lot of minutes after the game was over. Had the game been close something tells me you would have seen selby, taylor or tyrel in at the end of the game.

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hawksfan08 3 years, 7 months ago

I completely agree with what you're saying. At the same time, if we continue to play the trapping pressing style of the last few games, which many here have called for with our insane depth, I think Self will continue to spread the minutes out more in order to keep fresh bodies on the court. I thought Brady played well, much much better than the previous 3-4 games, and if he had gotten a 3 to drop his decent stat line would've looked substantially better.

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phi4life940 3 years, 7 months ago

Jeff Whithey- 0 Rebounds. Niko Roberts- 3 Rebounds.

Ifs our just me or did Whithey look like he was giving NO effort. He got boxed out by guys smaller than him and out rebounded by NIKO ROBERTS who played about 3 mins. Jeff has flashes of greatness but other times...wow, not so much.

Good win tonight though and AWESOME WINDMILL DUNK RELEFORD!!!!!

Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

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Ron Franklin 3 years, 7 months ago

Jeff just doesn't get it yet. The game must still be moving way too fast for him. Maybe, he just lacks the needed bball IQ....

Hopefully, the light will come on, because when it does, and all of Manning & Self's coaching comes out....he could explode.

The last thing the Hawks need is JW slowing down the natural team speed that the rest of the team plays at.....just like Cole did last year. But, Cole made up for it, Withey hasn't figured out how to yet.

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Kye Clark 3 years, 7 months ago

It's not just you. He looks like he gives some effort on the offensive end to score (but not so much on setting screens) and on the defensive end he always looks to rush over to help defend in hopes of getting a block. Otherwise, I agree he gives little to no effort and the rebounding stats you posted are a great illustration. I saw Reed chase down a rebound from about 15 feet away that was probably 3 feet away from Withey, but he just couldn't be bothered to move his lazy arse to get it. Really, he didn't even move.

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kcglowboy 3 years, 7 months ago

It's just you. He was busting his tail, just not getting it done at times. It was the first time I got to watch him live this year. To say he's giving no effort would be laughable if it weren't so hateful. And we can be pretty confident that if he was giving "NO effort," he wouldn't be out there. Pretty sure that HCBS has a "thing" about "giving effort."

Seriously, give the Withey-bashing a rest people. It's just ugly.

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KULA 3 years, 7 months ago

Guess I just draw a different conclusion from what I saw. I saw a lot of effort from Withey. On most shots, I saw him look to block someone out first, then go for the rebound. I think that's what they coach. Of course, later in the game, down by 30 and unable to penetrate, most of your shots are going to come from outside and the rebounds will bounce off long, towards the guards (like Niko).

And I saw him set a lot of screens, sometimes two on one play. Of course, when you set a screen, that's what you do--SET a screen. It's up to the ball handler to run his man off that screen. If the screener moves, that's called a foul.

The only thing I see wrong with his offense is he doesn't get enough touches. When he does touch it, he looks pretty darn good--3 for 3 with some quick moves around the basket. Of course, there was that one turnover on that entry pass from Brady. Not sure why our expert post feeder is throwing a pass to a 7 footer below the waist--probably just lack of familiarity. But not to worry--I have a feeling Brady's going to get more practice time with Jeff. They could actually become a very effective duo, the same way EJ and TRob seem to be nicely in sync.

Our perimeter passers tend to reverse the ball too quickly, before Withey has a chance to set up, resulting in not nearly enough touches inside. That's an issue of patience on the part of the perimeter guys. That's a tough call with Bill preaching quick ball reversal, but the ultimate goal is getting the ball inside, right?

Another zero for Jeff last night was blocked shots. But then, the box score doesn't show the 4 blocks he had when the shooter was fouled (by someone else) that negated the chance for 4 three pt plays. Reminded me of how Danny used to swat away shots after a foul. Wonder where Jeff learned that?

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kranny 3 years, 7 months ago

Broken foot, been ill and lost 20 pounds. My guess is that he still hasn't fully recovered plus he probably doesn't play much with the first team in practice yet. He'll get it. He just needs to be on the floor. I doubt he plays much in conference play unless the light bulb comes on in practice and he's fully healthy.

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Ty Mar 3 years, 7 months ago

He's giving effort but he's barely 220 @7 feet tall..he's getting pushed around and frankly "owned" down there. Hell...he should gain 10 or even 5 lbs of solid muscle with him being healthy now-should help quite a bit.

Imagine if we had T-Rob last night.....I think we would have replaced the rim by halftime.

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rwhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Agree somewhat. Several times he found himself pushed underneath the basket and he wasn't able to really go after the ball. Guys can get under him and put him in a poor rebounding position. Maybe its strength and size and maybe some of it is maturity about positioning himself against the opponent or attitude (as I watched Reed rip a rebound out of Withey's hand at one point).

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DevilHawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Neither one realized that the other guy was on the same team, but then Withey noticed that the other guy was Reed.

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TxJyHwk 3 years, 7 months ago

It has been talked about that he is trying to gain weight - and just can't. Apparently, he eats HUGE amounts, but doesn't gain weight

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doolindalton 3 years, 7 months ago

Loved the look of the 1-2-2 press and the way it gave the Jayhawks easy baskets. If only KU had used it against Northern Iowa last season instead of letting them walk the ball up the court. The game would not have been close.

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FreddyinLA 3 years, 7 months ago

Agree. I made this statement ad nauseam, and get comments like we don’t need to be running junk defenses.

Would you call John Wooden’s zone full court press where team could not get across mid-court for 5 or 6 possessions at a time a junk defense? I mean the guy only won 10 rings running a junk defense.

If you are more athletic and have a deeper bench, then use it with more pressure on the defensive end.

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100 3 years, 7 months ago

Excellent point, I think a lot of KU's fanbase has been waiting to see Self explore with this a bit. Against solid teams, we probably won't see it as much. But against the UNI's, this is the difference between a heartbreaking loss & a 30 point blowout that would have allowed us to hang banner #6.

As awful as it was to see Duke hang the banner after playing six high school teams, that UNI loss might have been the best thing to happen for the future of Jayhawk basketball.

The playbook needed to get opened up against Bucknell. And it did a bit as Mario's boys came in. But keep in mind most of those steals came from halfcourt situations; we were simply quick!

This is the first time I can really see for an absolute certainty that Coach Self has chosen to make a plan for the early rounds, as well as for the later rounds when we will be the deepest most athletic team.

I couldn't be more proud to have Coach Self as our leader.

All that said, for the sake of clarity....

As great as Wooden's press was, as Jayhawk fans who certainly appreciated him pouring the concrete for Memorial stadium while becoming friends with Dr. Naismith & Phog Allen while he was here for a summer, we must also remember where the full court press started....

Right here in Lawrence. Assistant Coach Harp (previously a KU player) got that ball rolling during a practice one day with head coach Phog Allen reeling with frustration at other teams attempting to burn the entire clock while plodding the ball up the court.

Coach Harp said to Phog....

"Why not try this?"

And he sent four of his defenders into backcourt against two of Kansas' offensive players, simulating an inbounds play. Harp's strategy wreaked havoc on the Kansas starters in practice. And on the opposing teams starters during games. And suddenly our offense, thanks to this practice, became very adept at moving the ball up the court quickly if need be. We became "The Jayhawk Machine, version VII"!!!

Wooden has always given Coach Harp at Kansas credit for this beautiful invention.

And the length of the court pass which helps gear up the tempo much like the full court press does?

The full court pass too was invented right here in Lawrence during KU's first season. Coach Naismith said it was one of the most beautiful plays he had ever seen....

At the dowtown Armory (pretty close to where the local Lawrence YMCA is now), diuring our first home game, one of our boys stole the ball & saw one of our sprinters flying up the court. He immediately wound up &....

Rolled it like a bowling ball!

Full speed, beating everyone down the court except for Naismith's sprinter who picked it up, tossed it high & dropped it in the peachbasket.

(cont)

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DevilHawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Sherron and Tyshawn both played extremely poorly in the UNI game - probably the worst game of the season for each of them.

A full court press probably would have helped, but if those two had combined to shoot better than 0-11 from beyond the arc, then you have a different game. They also were a combined 4-21 overall and only 4-4 from the line.

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100 3 years, 7 months ago

(cont)

This was our first home game & the crowd loved it (standing room only). The roof nearly came off the place for the entire game. Understanding the history of our basketball culture & fans, truly dates back to this very day propelled by Naismith's team's innovative play & speed. The noise per square inch in the old Armory was deafening.

Anyone who was blessed enough to be in Allen to see Danny & Archie's last game has wittnessed & been part of this Naismith spirit.

Anyone who was at Allen to see Wilt's first game, perhaps more than any, can stand up & confess & drink from the holy goblet the spirit of the Naismith Phog that gives us life.

Anyone who saw Lovellete's last game at Hoch can do the same.

Or Endacott's last at Robinson, you may also take not only a sip, but you may pour it over your head & grin, knowing it infuses you as long as your eyes are opened....

Or closed.

Or even Phog's last game at Snow, the beautiful downstairs pole per minute court that Naismith himself crafted by knocking out the crawl space, you too, are blessed with this amazing spirit that we all swam in last night at the Phog....

Back to the armory.... The ball rolled & rolled & rolled down the court... This play was repeated over & over throughout the game.

Naismith, who was also refereeing this match, was said to be grinning like a little boy in a candy shop everytime we pushed the tempo.

After all, as is so often in life, sometimes the inventor learns more from the users than the inventor does from his invention.

What a perfect game.

And in the end, Wooden, the gracious man he was, who had met the inventor years before (and even had planned to attend Kansas if not for his sick father in Indiana), gave the credit where it was due for his beautifully perfect full court press:

Coach Harp....

Who was recruited & landed by Phog....

Phog....

Who was recruited & landed by Naismith....

Naismith... Who hired Wooden to pour the concrete....

Lawrence, KS....

Where showtime started the day Naismith stepped foot on campus!

Rock Chalk Jayhawk

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huggybearhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

You've got to score to apply the 1-2-2 press. We didn't make shots agaist NIU.

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Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

Come on, we had multiple opportunities to press vs. UNI, but just didn't .. not until panic time in the last 2+ minutes.

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Hank Cross 3 years, 7 months ago

Agree dool and Freddy and great history lesson, 100.

For me, this is the real crux of the Brady issue-the need to develop the superior athletic talents to use all available weapons in March. When UNI was allowed to walk up the ball and we did the same, it was like watching a slow-motion car crash. Then in the post-game post-mortem, Self said that he didn't press earlier because that wasn't who the team was. But, it was Self that dictated the team's character. So it's great to see these things worked on in January against basically a practice squad.

I hope they keep on working with the press even in tough B12 games. Two or three losses in the next couple of months won't make any difference if this talented team is ready to run right over teams in March.

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Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

Another agree. I also think we should play zone just to give opponents another look. Not for extended periods but if we ever got into serious foul trouble, at least we would be comfortable playing it.

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ParisHawk 3 years, 7 months ago

I would agree except that Cole might have a hard time getting back fast on D. I'd like to see us press with Withey in the lineup as eraser.

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Lindsey Buscher 3 years, 7 months ago

"...surprising Iowa State"

What is so surprising about a 13-2 record against teams with a combined record of 90-120? They are 98th in the RPI with a SoS of 295! Is that surprising? Really?

ISU is not good. However, NOBODY will be surprised that they will be tough at home.

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waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

It's back... it's just will it be the destructive factor it once was.... this is a very VERY dangerous team in Ames.

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ccarp 3 years, 7 months ago

I love Selby's touch and release on a lob pass! With he and Taylor running the offense, we are really dangerous in our transition game. Really fun to watch.

Serious note, our prayers are with you Thomas Robinson. Take care of yourself and your family. We look forward to you rattling rims when you return.

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lincase 3 years, 7 months ago

I loved the press as well. If you have that much depth, it only makes sense to keep the pressure on the other team. If someone gets tired, there should be plenty of people who are willing to come in the game. As for the silly technical foul and the intentional foul, it is obvious that the twins have some growing up to do, or perhaps they have an inability to move information from short-term to long-term memory.

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Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

From the article above: Quick guards Taylor, Selby and Elijah Johnson (13 points) played several minutes together. “I don’t know if that’s our best or most athletic team,” Self said. “We could make a strong case it is. Our best teams, I’ve played three little guards. It doesn’t matter to me, if one (of them) is tough enough to defend a three (small forward).”

EJ got 26 minutes .. no turnovers. Not sure I like 8 three point attempts .. but his steady handling of the ball and added threat offensively are a great add to the rotation. I don't think there is any denying now that EJ, in bigger doses, makes this team better. I do like the combo of EJ, Selby, and TT on the floor together.

Even though I am a huge EJ fan, I'm also a big Reed fan. I love Reed's effort and tenacity. And even though his 3 % is down, I do think he is ultimately our best 3 point shooter. I personally don't care which one starts (EJ vs. Reed). If all four of those guys can play in the 25 minute range, with Selby closer to 30, that would be terrific.

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Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

Glad to see the Taylor, Selby and Elijah rotation taking a more prominent role in HCBS's overall game plan. I also consider myself a big EJ fan but he really does need to work on his defense...Until then, Reed should and probably will start. Also, Reed has probably the most game-time minutes of any player on the team and provides a steadying senior leadership role that will be needed in March.

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Truthhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

I think he was saying Reed would "ultimately" be the best. I think that's what he meant.

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Lindsey Buscher 3 years, 7 months ago

Hopefully we all saw last night the new role for Morningstar - clean up minutes at the end or a few minutes here and there to give guys a breather. He really didn't flow with the rest of the guards as Reed, Tayler, EJ, Selby, and Releford all looked very comfortable together.

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Dyrk Dugan 3 years, 7 months ago

we played well last night, but boy, we really need to work on our free throws...only 20-23 from the charity stripe. better work on those in practice.

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kranny 3 years, 7 months ago

87% !! Compared to what it has been, we can live with that. I'll assume some sarcasm in this post.

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Dyrk Dugan 3 years, 7 months ago

tongue firmly in cheek, yes. I'm also posting this, because earlier in the year, when we were struggling at the line a bit, i challenged folks to actually mention the good free throwing, when we do have a high pct...and of course, no one does...tee he.

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jayhawktalk 3 years, 7 months ago

Yes, Rain Man, and we all know you are an excellent driver.... This repetitious negativity is getting old.

I think jayhawkinnebr needs less PT (posting time). He seems to have reached his potential, and is purely a one dimensional, negative poster.

Considering this is a nationally awarded site, it would seem we have many more talented posters that need the e-space to develop their games.

Seriously, others can all for more minutes for others, at Brady's expense, with some intelligence and valid critique, but, man, your posts are not only negative, but also shallow and totally lame.

I hate to call someone out like this, but these posts are just unbearable to read over and over and over and over, regardless of whether they have anything at all to do with the article to which they are being posted.

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Truthhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Is it possible for you to post something with originality, as opposed to simply repeating the same crap over and over. We get it.

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kranny 3 years, 7 months ago

Completely disagree. When Brady is on he is one of the best defenders and runs the offense well. Problem with Brady is confidence unless there's something else going on that we don't know of. Different teams bring different matchups and we'll need his defense again long guards. He'll be fine.

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Woody Cragg 3 years, 7 months ago

Chemistry may be getting there finally like we all had hoped, but still lag of depth in the paint is likely an Achilles heel. Wassup with the twins anyway? They're going to have a bad reputation when conf play starts with all these techs, and surely will not get favorable calls from refs who exchange notes & watch tape, which most of them do. Either way not enough fouls to go around for the bigs. Travis can only do so much. Guard play will be phenominal but MC & MK have got to get their heads on straight or the lights will go out early again in March. What this team needs is a guy like Piper or a really, really obeident walk-on to do some trench work.

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Dyrk Dugan 3 years, 7 months ago

per the KC Star this morning, he told the kids, that if they won the 2nd half by 20 or more, they would have today off. sort of a reinforcement on being able to step on an opponent's throat when they are down.

Elijah was quoted about it in the article.....so someone must have asked him before Self started his post game presser.

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Dr. Robert s. Mosser 3 years, 7 months ago

Lots of games to go. On years past the team has arrived "tired" and played that way after tough conference and B-12 tournament. Playing time spread out should help keep the team from that problem assuming practices take the "tired" problem into account as the year continues.

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HAWKTOPIA 3 years, 7 months ago

I think we should all relish in having a plethora of awesome talent at guard. If any team has one guard who is unstoppable by one defender that team is a problem. Besides missed free throws KU has been stymied by a single handed small quick guard to lose a many a big game. We now have two guards on the floor that can take any defender to the hoop and draw many defenders every time up the floor. Basketball is a reactive sport and we are just a few games deep into this new potential.

This is why we seem disoriented at times. players are watching others perform their role, it is natural to look a bit lost. This is why JW is seeing minutes, because the best conclusion is always an easy slam. drive and dish! drive and pop from 3! once you draw a second defender the offense is on track.

If we hit freethrows we will not be beaten, especially if we full court press with intensity.

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waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

NOt only do we have a plethora of them they play a plethora of different roles without providing much drop off..... Our depth 1-3 is unfathomable.

Royce should be getting more minutes. We lost CJ Henry and it appears we are no worse for the wear. ( and he wa spretty good ) Mario Little is getting back from suspenion when ?

Tyshawn, Josh, tyrel, travis, elijah, Royce.... yep...even you too Brady... Are aluxury that most teams cannot even comprehend.

UMKC Had Cousinard. We start two players clearly better than him, another two that would beat him pretty consistantly 1 on 1 and our Bench is full of guys who would keep it a close game.....

We are unquestionably the best Guard team in that nation right now.

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michaelaho 3 years, 7 months ago

Let's wait & see how we play against real competitions. Miami (Ohio) & UMKC were a joke & should not be on our schedule. These games make us worse!

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Steve Gantz 3 years, 7 months ago

1st post: "We are getting scary good". When we start beating Big 12 teams night in night out by 40, then "we're getting scary good" Doing it 3 games in a row against UMKC, Miami, and Texas-Arlington is not a body of evidence to say we're scary good. In my KU experience the only times KU has been scary good were the 85-86 team, 96-97 team (I think that was the year, when AZ beat us) 02-03 and 07-08. And I'm sorry, but this team doesn't hold a candle to those teams.

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jaybate 3 years, 7 months ago

"The Zone Press Thing"

Wooden used the 2-2-1 zone press for two reasons:

a) it disrupts the opposing team's tempo, whether they are trying to run, or walk, with mininum draw down on his team's energy budget; and

b) it tends to make the opponent start its offense farther from the basket and so end up with a lower percentage shot farther out.

Self is using a zone press for these two reasons, also.

He is opting for a 1-2-2 for what ought to be an obvious reason: Tyshawn Taylor has such fabulous range on defense, he can basically accomplish by himself what Woodens two guards used to accomplish together. Further, Self has a back up in EJ that could do the same thing almost as well. Finally, Self lacks a single, superior athletic defensive post man, like short Freddy Slaughter, tall Jabbar, super active Walton, and super brawny and nimble Patterson were. He has instead, Marcus and Kieff, who both are a bit foul prone, but who both complement each other very well together.

Zone presses tend to speed up tempo, because after the moderate resistance of the zone press, the offense invariably starts farther out and then hurries just a bit to get into routines starting farther out.

Self makes clear that KU's zone press is intended to make deliberate offenses, especially the Princeton style, that scheme to take the entire 35 seconds of the shot clock to run through their options have slightly less than their preferred 35 seconds.

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Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

Yeah..Henry Bibby, Gail Goodrich, Walt Hazzard, Lucius Allen, Mike Warren, had only half the range of Tyshawn.

I've never liked comparing different eras because of the obvious differences such as style of play, changes in rules, conditioning, advances in nutrition, ad nauseum.

apples and oranges

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jaybate 3 years, 7 months ago

Pete Carrill has said many times that everyone thought when the shot clock was adopted, and then shortened, that that would be the end of the Princeton. He said he knew better. He said he had timed his offense through its six step series and found that it could run a full cycle in 35 seconds; that after 35 seconds, it simply recycled.

Carrill was perfectly happy with 35 seconds.

Self has seen the achilles heel of the Princeton and set about whittling away at it.

The Achilles heel is that when the offense has less than 35 seconds to run, it has less than the full opportunity to generate the looks at the basket it is designed to generate.

Shorten the time they have to run the Princeton with a zone press to less than 35 seconds and you accomplish two things.

First, as already indicated, you reduce its opportunities to cycle through and generate a high percentage look.

But, second, and maybe even more important, playing a zone press for 5-10 seconds takes less energy than playing Self-grade m2m for 5-10 seconds. 100 will probably dispute me on this, since he thinks playing zone defense is actually a bigger energy sink than playing m2m; on this disagree, especially the back-pedalling, relatively low effort zone press.

Even Self has to admit that playing m2m against the Princeton, and other ball screening offenses, that try to make m2m defenders fight through screens, and picks and give chase on long arcing cuts, for the full 35 seconds is a big draw down on his team's energy budget.

The zone press is a sound partial solution to this problem.

A team that likes to walk it up the floor, anyway, requires little expenditure of energy to slow down even further with a zone press.

There are counter moves, of course, but the counter moves involve increasing energy expenditure by the opponent, and that would be just fine with Self.

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Woody Cragg 3 years, 7 months ago

Correct JB. TT is that quick, plus backup galore & good fundamental zone with feet squarely in front of offensive handler upside has multiple benefits. Critics say zone def is lazy way, but switching defenses at key points and often during a contest adds to effectiveness of strategies. Zone has just an essential place as M2M in any repertoire. Our kids used to love when we switched because of the obvious confusion it created with their opponents, especially when they had called a "tempo" timeout to regroup. Success with any form of zone depends on how quick your feet are. Once an off player is past your front forward foot--he's gone. You almost always foul him trying to recover, especially so in M2M. That's why you're taught to keep the man squarely in front. It really is a simple game.

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jaybate 3 years, 7 months ago

What I love about Nebraska is how everyone there takes hard drugs and marries minors, or practices bestiality, while advocating communism and jihad. What do you think jayhawkinnebr? :-)

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Woody Cragg 3 years, 7 months ago

JB,that sort of logic is why they have Doc & we have HCBS.

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jaybate 3 years, 7 months ago

I can do frequency with ya.

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Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

Relative Frequency Histogram

  1. Relative frequency defined as the fraction of times the value occurs, or the frequency of value(s) ÷ number of observations in the set.
  2. Relative frequencies usually of more interest than the absolute frequencies.
  3. Relative frequency histogram constructed by assigning the relative frequencies as heights of the rectangles.
  4. Sum of all relative frequencies in a data set is 1.

Tomorrow we move on to Radio Frequency..

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Truthhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Maybe Jayhawkinnebr will comment on frequency --- he'd think it had to do with his prostate.

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ohmixmaster 3 years, 7 months ago

Is it just me or does it seem like the guy who works best with Selby appear to be Reed? I've been a fan of TR since his Freshman year (Being a former player and coach I'm a sucker for good jump shooting technique), but I've never seen him play at this level. Everything about TR's game has elevated since Selby joined the team on the floor. He attacks the rim, plays tougher disciplined defense, and even rebounds. The kid could always shoot and played good fundamental ball, but I see him at a completely different level since Selby came on the scene. I'm curious if anyone else sees this.

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Woody Cragg 3 years, 7 months ago

OK call it frequency, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency, and I guess you can make a form of brain surgery out of this after all. JB, our lives have become enlightened today. Whithey just has a problem with the frequency of the game guys. Now I really feel like I "get it"! Ya think he wiil too?

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Woody Cragg 3 years, 7 months ago

"Frequency" is also why quick teams get hosed by the tv timeouts in the tounament. That ain't in the Funk & Wagnals either. It's in the contract.

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Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

The points made above by everyone on the zone press are good ones.

One important consideration is the type of zone press employed .. at the basic level, is it a "full court" press or a "3/4" court press. The article suggests we ran a "full court press." Most of the time, it wasn't .. it was a 3/4 court press. Two separate calls, two separate schemes, and many options within both. Big difference. We do not want to run a full court press even 20% of the time. Risk/reward is just not there. We would only want to run a full court press sporadically as a "catch you by surprise" deal.

The basic difference is the forward point of the first trap. With the full court press, you funnel the ball to the corner between the free throw line and the baseline on the inbound pass, attempt to trap at that corner; then attempt to funnel down the sidelines and then trap at the edge just prior to halfcourt. With the 3/4 court press we used primarly last night, the defenders slid back and trapped past the free throw line and nearer to halfcourt than a fullcourt press. The 3/4 court press is employed by simply sagging on the inbounds and "jumping the defender" at a spot about equal to the free throw line or deeper. The second trap falls just past half court (if the scheme includes that). You can rachet up or down your level of aggressiveness with each trip.

What I love about 1-2-2 press is that you can use it all the time, literally, while providing for limited risk of the easy layup (unlike the 1-2-1-1 which is more agressive, prone to getting beat deep, particularly as high levels).

With the 1-2-2, you can, at one one end of the spectrum, simply sag it back to your defensive end one possession; jump the inbounds pass the next; selectively trap a side the next time; mix in the trap just past half-court; trap then sag; etc.

A big point to remember is that the primary focus of a zone press is to intercept the pass out of the trap. That is the biggest deal .. to avoid reaching and grabbing. Rather, looking to intercept. But that is a negative by-product .. reach-in fouls. (As a side note, I have found presses to be more effective in the girls/womens' game because ladies tend to be a touch more disciplined on reaching (no jokes please), and the ladies can't hit the 60 foot overhead cross court pass .. meaning they can't generally can't flip the long pass as easily).

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Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

(cont) Another big negative to zone presses is falling back into a man defense out of the zone press. I personally would never do that. But I'm not coaching big time college athletes that are better with locating their men, helping, etc., to get situated. Don't be surprised to see a few loose baskets against better teams if we use it. Not necessarily the open layup one might think about in press break, but the open three, or the unguarded player with a short J.

Interestingly, you saw Brady at the top of the 1-2-2 last night. Actually, perfect type of guy for that spot. Under control, disciplined, methodical, good footwork. You want your faster guards as the next 2 defenders so they can get to the sideline to stop the dribbler. Perfect fit for Selby/EJ/TT. Reed would probably be fine at any spot, and of course, Selby/EJ/TT could play the top.

As mentioned, Self seemed to use the 1-2-2 primarily as a 3/4 court press last night. It was at times a "full court press", based on the trapping spots, but he's using it more as a 3/4 press. It is the perfect "pressure" press, and is perfect for our personnel .. Markieff, TRob, and/or Marcus as the back two defenders.

If we can use this 1 out of 4, 1 out of 5 possessions, that would be great. But while I absolutely love the press at lower levels of ball, I still view it at higher levels like blitzing on the defensive side of the ball in football .. why do it if your stopping them in your base defense? Risk/reward isn't there.

Which brings us to why Self is pulling this press out, and a concern. He is seeking answers for a team he obviously views as defensively inferior, and the option/necessity of the press may become more apparent as the games get more difficult. It might be a touch concerning because Self has always said we are a "pressure" team, not a "press" team. Perhaps the depth of our defensive ineptness has caused this change of heart. While we all like the press, it's exciting, etc., this may not be "positive" evidence regarding Self's assessment of our potential to progress defensively this season.

I understand some of press points are obvious to some, but thought I'd hit them anyway.

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jayhawktalk 3 years, 7 months ago

This is a fantastic post.

Not sure we are pressing because of any specific defensive concern, although certainly plausible. My bet would be that the personnel are there in abundance, we have a ton of fouls that we can afford to be given via reaches, blocking, etc., especially for the front 3 on the press, and a press can do wonders to get a team outside their comfort level, even if just token pressure. I have also always thought that pressing forces players to stay focused and aggressive. Self may also just be using it as a way of imposing his will upon the opponent, and dictating the terms of the game, or simply making it that much more difficult for a team to prep for an upcoming game against the might 'Hawks.

Regardless of the reason, this is just an excellent post, and I really enjoyed it. Thanks for taking the time to put it out here.

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Truthhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

This is an awesome post. I read it a second time.

I may not totally agree on the reason for the press. I don't think we're that bad defensively. But thinking about it, it may be. Will be interesting to follow.

I think the press also compresses their 35 seconds, which may relate to dragnslyr's point on frequency.

And, HEM, you have actually found a place for Brady (but I would still think you'd rather have Josh, Taylor, and Elijah at those guard spots.

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Marc Frey 3 years, 7 months ago

I love JS, TT, and EJ, but man RusRob, Mario, and Sherron were alot of fun too.

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Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

Now RusRob was someone w/defensive range. When those 3 were playing tight defense, it caused serious disruptions in the other teams offense.

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JayHok 3 years, 7 months ago

@ 100,

Like oxicaljayhawk said your history on Jayhawk basketball is greatly appreciated and I feel like I'm going back in time every time I read one of your posts. You have a gift. I must admit I skimmed over your two posts in the story above a couple times today without even noticing it was you because of the situation of squinting at my cell phone. For future posts just a little constructive advice on where to place your well thought out and informative responses. Put them as a post all by itself and place the @ sign to whoever you are replying.

That way all of us Hawk cell phone users can see it and appreciate it. For example, unfortunately many today might not have seen your expose on the KU inspired full court press due to our phones scrunching your two huge and insightful posts into a tiny sentence that a cell phone user must click on twice to open up.

Luckily I read the posts later today on my computer and was able to see it easier. Again I mean nothing personal so please don't take it that way we just want to read what you write. Constructive criticism aside it was stupendous to read about the history of fast pace basketball evolving at KU.

Thank you again 100 and best.

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Truthhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Agreed. Some of the points made about Taylor playing poorly when Selby hit the floor were correct. But it looks like Taylor has adjusted.

I am just a huge fan of Elijah, Taylor, and Josh on the floor together. Perhaps the most athletic trio ever to be at the 1 -3 spots, together, in KU history. Is that too bold?

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Theutus 3 years, 7 months ago

I don't know if 1 game constitutes Taylor being "adjusted".

Taylors entire problem has been consistency... I'm not ready to call everything good after 1 game against a powder puff.

Hoping for the best though...

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KU_FanSince75 3 years, 7 months ago

100---Love your posts and have to admit, those kind of reads make me emotional. The history behind the game of basketball and how it involved Lawrence and KU is just darn interesting. Of course, we KU fans and alumni are really passionate about our basketball Jayhawks, just like HCBS is passionate about being the head man at AFH. I am really anxious to see how we will fare against Conference opponents and if we continue to press like we have done in the past two or three games. I am in favor of the press, mainly because we have the personnel to run it. Last year, Cole and Sherron were our leaders. However, IMO, we are a lot quicker this year than last year. That's why the optimism surrounds this team---there is so much talent. Take Releford and EJ for example-----they are doing good now, but they are only going to get better-----so exciting---the best is yet to come! Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

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Woody Cragg 3 years, 7 months ago

Sounds like it's clickin' for the Wiz!

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Scott Smetana 3 years, 7 months ago

Lovin the Jayhawks, hating our schedule.
I see Texas plays UConn next. They've also played Michigan St., UNC, Pitt, and Illinois. Who have we played that is a likely lock for the tourney? NO ONE. Memphis and Arizona are bubble teams at best (neither made the tourney last year).
The schedules aren't made THAT far in advance. Many games are scheduled within 1-2 years. This team needs a wake up call! I hope Michigan brings it.

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waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

There are very few teams that really scare me.

Duke's slapping does not.

Here's the short list, and notice the trend.

Wisconsin 12-3. 2-1 in conference. Very Quirky team, can play many different styles and has no super stars.

Illinois. 13-3. 3-0 in conference. Depth to match ours, debatably as skilled. More post players than we can play. Demetri McCamey is a GREAT point guard. They have a guy who can exploit Tyrel as our "3" in Jereme Richmond.

Ohio State. 15-0. 2-0 in conference. If we are the Unstoppable force, they are the Non-moving object. Jared Sullinger is going to foul us out if we have to play aaginst him. He will score 30+..... We can still hold them to 50 with him scoring that much though.

MIchigan State.10-4. 2-0 in conference Never. Underestimate. Izzo. They are a wounded animal, and putting them down will be extremely difficult. There losses were to Duke, Syracuse, Texas and Uconn. Go ahead and figure the combined win percentage of Boeheim,Barnes,Coach K and Calhoun. Yeah, this is an underrated team right now.

We have the pieces to beat these teams, and we will get a goo look at how compeititve we are against them on Sunday, but the Big 10-11-12 is VERY strong right now.

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Brian Conrad 3 years, 7 months ago

PUKE .. Sullinger on way more experienced TWINS that is 2... AND T Rob ... those are three very tough muscle guys. granted Twins would have to play little better defense ... BUT they can not handle OUR bigs on offense, plus our guard play way better... lets rock ...ANY big 10 team. no team in the country can run AND has toughness like this team.. they will get couple knocks , but once these players jell.. watch out! IF KU starting 7 plays A game they are ubeatable... getting the A game for 40 minutes... well another story.. Self by end of year BEST Coach in country, he will get these guys ready for big 12 play. Selby MOP final four

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jayhawktalk 3 years, 7 months ago

All in the Big 10? Can't say I disagree, but there are other teams (a lot of them) that would make me nervous at this point.

Definite +1 on the McCamey comment. I watch Illinois just to see him play. I cannot decide whether he's "deceptively slow" or "deceptively quick", but the guy can flat out play.

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waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

yup. All in the big 10-11-12, and I think they are THE conference for Jaybate's XTREME Muscle Ball.

I have a heavy Big 10-11-12 NCAA Tourney Bracket shaping up..... No one really in the SEC scares me. The big East seems really young if Kemba Walker is their best player right now. And when the acc's Best doesn't scare me then why should i fear a conference that plays the exact opposite style of basketball we play. I won't belabor my opinions of the WCC's ugly sister, the pac-10.

Sure we will lose a game or two or three in conference, we should make the conference semis with Withey, Robinson, Roberts, Morningstar EJ as our starting line up.

We have one more non-confernece game, Mid-term if you will..... away at Michigan. Middle of the pack Big 10 school on their turf. We pass this, it will set our sights on conference season. So far, K-state, and Baylor are not what we expected. So far MIzzou and Texas are better than expected. Iowa State is coming back by 2012 and will be the best mid-major school playing at a major level since Vandy in 2009.

Sure. those teams will beat up on each other.... but those should be your top 4 when the final standings come down in the big 10-11-12, and they will all be very tough tested tourney outs. Quick nod to Purdue, while they don't scare me like the rest of the those 4 do... they could also just as easily be in the top 4.

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waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Post Script on McCamey.

He's not Demetri McCamey, but Mark Jackson reincarnated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_d1t4FAkTU

It helps that Tisdale is a Smits clone. If only Jamar Smith wouldn't have ruined his career. This would have been an awesome team two years ago with his jumper.

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jayhawksbiggestfan 3 years, 7 months ago

The other side of all this is Selby and TT benefit as well by having Tyrel on the floor. I suspect that by the end of regular season play Tyrel will be shooting 40 % threes or more. ( 46%) would be awesome again ). If we have 4 guards that can shoot 40% or more from 3, that plus drive strong to the basket. The M and Ms play smart. We will be a runaway train.

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Glen Darge 3 years, 7 months ago

All I got to say is our team better practice and be ready for Iowa. They have beaten us before and the way the Hawks have been playin lately Iowa could make us look real bad.

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