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Tuesday, February 15, 2011

Keegan

Recurring Morris twins trouble especially disturbing

Kansas forward Marcus Morris complains about a bad pass after a Jayhawk turnover during the first half on Monday, Feb. 14, 2011 at Bramlage Coliseum.

Kansas forward Marcus Morris complains about a bad pass after a Jayhawk turnover during the first half on Monday, Feb. 14, 2011 at Bramlage Coliseum.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 84-68 loss to Kansas State on Feb. 14, 2011.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU players Tyrel Reed and Mario Little

Kansas players Tyrel Reed and Mario Little talk to reporters following the Jayhawks' 84-68 loss to Kansas State on Feb. 14, 2011.

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— If it merely had been a case of the Kansas University basketball team not having the humility to handle the prosperity of holding the No. 1 ranking in the nation, no big deal.

KU won’t have that problem again, after getting bullied, 84-68, Monday night in Bramlage Coliseum by a Kansas State team that rode its star to a season-saving victory. The Jayhawks (24-2) won’t play as No. 1 anymore, and the stink of such an awful performance ought to linger long enough to carry them into the postseason with enough sense to know if they don’t bring their best every night, they won’t last long.

The memory of a sea of purple spilling onto the court will create an edge, always a good thing to bring into March Madness.

It’s the threat of a recurring, self-defeating trait resurfacing at another inopportune time, the annoying sub-plot of an otherwise successful season, that could undermine KU’s attempt to get to Houston, site of the Final Four.

That, of course, would be the penchant for one of the Morris twins to act impulsively and get whistled for an intentional foul. It didn’t hurt his team when Markieff Morris got called for one against Missouri’s Justin Safford. Against K-State, Markieff’s arm made contact with Jacob Pullen’s face, which didn’t slow the senior guard from Chicago enough to keep him from torching KU with 38 points.

By that point in the game, Markieff’s twin, Marcus, had been whistled for two fouls. Markieff’s second foul, the intentional one, gave him a seat next to his brother. Thomas Robinson, recovering from knee surgery, wasn’t there to bail them out. That chore went to Jeff Withey, who couldn’t cut it defensively, and Mario Little, who was hell-bent on shooting Kansas back into it and kept firing blanks.

On a night Kansas was in too big a hurry all game, nobody hurried more than Little. Oh well, at least he led the team with five rebounds. And he’s not counted on to lead this team. That responsibility falls on the Morris twins, terrific players on most nights, the nights they don’t get in their own way.

Back during the nonconference portion of the schedule, it was Marcus Morris who unleashed a high elbow and got tossed from a road victory against California.

Days after Markieff’s loss of composure against Missouri, his coach, Bill Self, talked about how the twins are marked men and have to be aware of that. He mentioned referees think of them as a tandem, and when one twin does something foolish, both get branded as trouble-makers.

“We’ve addressed it consistently all year,” Self said then. “We’ve had different things to try to help them understand the importance of playing smart and that stuff all the time.”

Self expressed confidence the message had been absorbed.

“I really believe we’re not going to have any more issues with that moving forward,” Self said. “I don’t believe that will be the case at all.”

He believed it, and he was wrong. It’s not on him. It’s on the players to strike the proper balance and play intense, physical basketball without letting that spill into non-basketball plays that bring unnecessary whistles.

Pullen, intent on paying back Tyshawn Taylor for out-playing him in Lawrence, would have won this game even if Markieff hadn’t played just eight minutes in the first half, even if Marcus weren’t forced back into the game to play the rest of the half with two fouls because to do otherwise would have been to dig a deeper ditch.

Pullen has put so much on his back in this season of K-State underachieving a year after it overachieved all the way to the Elite Eight. At times, he’s taken too much upon himself and hasn’t looked like the same player.

He never looked better than he looked Monday, and he wasn’t going to let his team lose. Kansas resorted to a triangle-and-two and tried a platoon of defenders on him after Taylor couldn’t get near him. None of it worked because Pullen didn’t let it work. He drove so relentlessly to the hoop he attempted 19 free throws, made 15, and hit five of six three-point shots.

On this night, more than any, with Pullen going off, Robinson unavailable, the crowd jacked to dethrone No. 1 and a desperate team battling to pull it all together, composure was a must, and Kansas didn’t have it. Markieff returned in the second half, but he didn’t bring his multi-faceted game with him. In 20 minutes, he didn’t bring down a single rebound and scored three points. Marcus had 13 points, three rebounds, three steals and four turnovers. Taylor had one assist and six turnovers.

Aside from a costly turnover when Kansas was making a first-half run, reserve Elijah Johnson had done some nice things. He even slowed Pullen a little for a couple of solid defensive stretches. Then Johnson reached new heights, throwing down a dunk. He immediately took it to new depths, jawing at Jordan Henriquez-Roberts and getting whistled for a technical.

Trash-talking in self-worship with his team down 14 points and 5:55 left on the clock? That would be akin to a hitter popping out of the dugout for a ninth-inning curtain call after a solo shot with his team trailing, 9-1. Somebody please help me understand that line of thinking. On exactly what planet does that make even a shred of sense? Neptune? Jupiter? Mars? Where?

Comments

JayhawkMafiaFamily 3 years, 2 months ago

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the day Bernadette let Lew muscle Mangino out of town for being "too tough" is the same day our whole athletic dept got soft. It seems obvious to me that what we are lacking (in both football and basketball) is toughness. I mean we have a football coach who is more like a Sunday School teacher than a football coach and a basketball coach who is scared to cuss a kid out on the bench while the kid sits there running his mouth. I'm glad I watched the game in HD so I could see the split screen with Frank Martin and Bill Self. It was like night and day. Bill looked like he just gave up trying to coach, squeezing out awkward smiles finally followed by the desperate look of defeat. Meanwhile Frank Martin was in his players grill the whole game. Even when they were beating us by 20 he was still in their face and wouldn't let them back down for a minute. I would love to see more of that from HCBS. Not all the time and not with every player. I mean Frank has lost almost half his team this season for one reason or another but if when Markieff got called for the intentional foul on Pullen HCBS would have told him to shut up, park your ass on the bench then got T'd up himself for cussing out the ref I would have supported him 110%.

The Twins, Tyshawn, Selby, Little: they aren't thugs. They are inner city kids that have been brought to the Great Plains of Kansas to play college basketball. Now Jacob Pullen he's a thug, matter of fact he's a natural born killer cuz he single handedly murdered our whole squad on Monday night. Tyshawn=baller; twins=ballers; Selby=Balla! but in my opinion they are not being coached to maximize their strengths. TT should not be running the point. He is a slasher who needs to be driving the lane and creating his own shot. If he is going to get an assist it should be an insane alley oop pass to one of the twins or TRob. Otherwise let him get And1 mixtape on fools and take them to the hoop. Same for the twins. Dem boys good! Let them go hard in the paint, spot up for threes and get nasty with the mid range game. On defense play zone and keep them out of foul trouble. Selby, well it's just a matter of time before he blows up in a major way but not unless he is given the green light to score at will. Reed is the obvious team leader. He grinds it out and hustles hard night in and night out. Morningstar is a role player that has finally found his stroke and is making it rain from all over the court. TRob, one word: Monster! With support players like Little, Releford and EJ we shouldn't just be ballin we should be Bill Gatin!!

I could be way off here but I'm willing to bet if HCBS didn't feel like he had to appear like Mr. Niceguy all the time and if some of our players were given the freedom to play the way they know how we would be the best team in the country by far and dare I say #1 and undefeated.

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pooflingingmonkey 3 years, 2 months ago

This is the worst team in the history of the program. These players are a blight on the KU name. Blah blah blah.

They're 24-2. Get a grip, people.

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dynamitehawk 3 years, 2 months ago

It's really simple:

We need the kind of intensity that K-State played with for the rest of our season. We need to play and have fun doing it. We need to say, "slap yo mama!" when we dunk on players, and not snarl at refs for bad calls. We need to focus on the dunk-to-gentle-nut-tap on the back of their heads, rather than trying to knock their heads behind the refs' backs.

The thing is that these guys need to lose their "tough neighborhood", "tough upbringing", "respect me because I'm from _" attitude. That was Sherron. And as much as I love Sherron, it takes away from the team. The '08 team got it. Let's hope these guys figure out how to have fun, smile, and beat the $hit out of teams grinning to net cutting time.

Slap yo mama.

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jayhawkinnebr 3 years, 2 months ago

Budweiser Brady just invited us all over to his place for a beer party, and Bill is going to be there with chips. 7.00pm, 108 Plum st. Lawrence KS.

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Hawkamania 3 years, 2 months ago

The twins have been receiving attention from the refs ever since they got to Kansas. This is nothing new to me. Ever since they've been here they've been getting whistled for the littlest contact, more so then any other Kansas players I can remember in the past. The more and more they keep getting "chippy", the more its going to bite the team in the ace when it matters. They should know by now that the refs have it out for them but for some reason they don't. Are they that stubborn? They need to get their heads out of their as_es and stop putting themselves into situations where the ref can blow a whistle so easily. Not all the whistles are warranted but some of them are with the boneheaded decisions they've made throughout their Kansas careers.

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jayhawkintx73 3 years, 2 months ago

Wouldn't wanna be Colorado coming to AFH! Its nationally televised, and KU should have a chip on their shoulder after the way even this so called journalist treated this story. It would pay for a journalist to at least use some level of critical thinking, and this story has ZERO critical thinking. This was a gig to try create controversy, and nothing more than that.

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Gregor Southard 3 years, 2 months ago

One loss and now the Morris twins are an embarrassment to the program. The fans are the prima donnas. I can deal with a loss to an arch rival every other year. Take a deep breath guys. Also, I would like to hear the twins side of the story.

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Krohnutz 3 years, 2 months ago

Be careful Tom, Scatterhawk and Jacobpull191919191 or whatever, will be on here insulting your level of education and your ability to evaluate crappy basketball when you see it.

I'm gonna make a second account so I can start giving +1's to my posts.

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rock_chalk_jayhawk_in_nc 3 years, 2 months ago

The Twins are hard nosed emotional players who play with a chip on there shoulder, that is the kind of kid I want on my team. Winning isn't always pretty or nice. They are young and still learning to be men and you take the good with the bad and hope that they learn from each game. That they grow as men and those around hopefully inspire them to be good citizens. They may at times drive me nuts when they commit poor judgement fouls that hurt the team but in the end I would take a kid that goes hard and is ready to go to war than some soft piece of playdoh. The way some people have turned on them is disgraceful. You support your team, you support your jayhawk family, you accept the warts and all and push in a positive way to correct the issues and when the going gets down you look to the next game and learn from the one that passed but don't dwell on it. March madness is a crap shoot, six good games, lucky match ups, getting hot when it counts. More often than not the best team does not win but its always a good team that had a little luck and got on a roll that does. We are still that kinda team today, tomorrow and until someone beats us in March as we try to win six in a row.

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jhawkr 3 years, 2 months ago

"It was the worst performance of a KU mens basketball team I have ever seen. Just a nightmare from beginning to end ........" Nightmare yes, worst performance ever, NO, but definitely one of the most pathetic attempts at team ball I've ever seen at KU.

I am tired of everyone pretending there is no real problem and wanting to put a band-aid on the sores. We are out of band-aids and that was not a one game anomaly. It's time for HCBS to quit coddling the Twins and Taylor, etc. I think he's been on the edge all season about worrying about team chemistry. After the K-Suc game it is readily apparent we have none. Sure they banded together after TRob's mom died, but that didn't last long.

The problems of Monday night on primetime ESPN have been around game in and game out thru most of the season. We've just masked the problems and worked around them. Monday night they all came boiling to the top. The Jayhawks exposed their weaknesses and faults to the rest of the world. Self himself keeps saying we can't play defense to save our butts, but they continue to play man to man even as we are continually beat time and time again.

I don't care if we lose 3 of our last 5 games as long as they are tourney ready by Mid-March. Not just Big 12 tourney ready, but 64-68 team Big Dance ready. HCBS has to stand up to his squad and get them to play team ball instead of individual games. I have to believe he is smarter then any of us, but apparently he can't get them to buy into Self ball. Sit the Twins and Taylor and whoever doesn't get it. No one should be above the rest of the team.

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Andrew Washington 3 years, 2 months ago

I think that sometimes we need less of this "SelfBall" and more of a superstar player that can really score like crazy. We SHOULD have "that guy" that we go to. Maybe if we had a better offensive system then we'd have gone to at least 3 final fours under coach self instead of just one (barely made it that time too). Alot of times SelfBall and the balanced scoring doesnt workout. Let the star players be star players and dont focus on letting everyplayer get that touch all the time. SelfBall might be good, but only if we could play it like Pitt-maybe they're playing something like bill self envisions for kansas?

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wyansas 3 years, 2 months ago

I can't say anything that hasn't already been said, but I have to comment on this game. It was the worst performance of a KU mens basketball team I have ever seen. Just a nightmare from beginning to end. Did this game put anybody else in a bad mood for the rest of the night? A whole string of bad stuff happened to me after the game ended, and I got the maddest I've been in months.

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ancient_hawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I would highly recommend, for anyone who has access to it (on several times on FSN's family of channels) watching Coach Consonant's most recent weekly Duke BB show, where he discusses his thought process behind recovering from their beat-down @ St. Johns. Interesting paralells there.

I don't have any love for the guy (I mean, come on, he's the coach for the Dookies), but I have an enormous amount of respect for him as a coach, and especially as a developer of college talent.

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upinsmoke 3 years, 2 months ago

It's kind of funny when I posted this same comment about how the twins are embarassing the team after the Missouri game, I was called all kinds of names. I guess a week changes a few minds. There is trouble in river city, and HCBS need to do more than address this. Maybe mom needs to let TRob grow a little bit and teach her sons how you act when you represent Kansas.

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CasperCorps 3 years, 2 months ago

Regular season is over, no way Texas loses two more... We can now sit the twins and let Withey and Royce get some PT.. I have no problem with EJ, that was an awesome dunk and it should be his team to run.. Let him iron out his game for the rest of the reg season.. Selby can rest his foot and Reed too.. Whats it gonna hurt to let them heal up.. If we straighten up, we get to stomp Texas and Kstate in the big twelve tourney and that would lock us up for a decent seed in the Tourney.. We don't need a one seed, we've proven last year that it doesn't matter.. This team plays better flying under the radar...Does it make me less of a Kansas fan if I don't like twins? Have we had players like this before? It seems like this kind of stuff usually happens off the court with us ,not in front of the cameras.. Usually I don't like players cause they can't guard or I think someone else should be playing thats better then them, but these guys have some offensive skills, can't guard anyone, but have decent touch unless they are playing someone as tall as them then they are non existent. They act like their ticket is punched to the NBA and they don't care about much else.

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KGphoto 3 years, 2 months ago

OMG! What will we do? We lost a game?

Guess what folks. You are spoiled. That's only the second loss of the season, and it happened against a team that was unconscious. Throw all the insults you want. Scream "The sky is falling". I don't care. I'm on for the the whole ride!

Go KU!

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squawkhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

The Morris twins are a cancerous growth on this team and will eventually cripple it like you saw last night. Mark my word, it will get worse before it gets better unless Self steps up and starts acting like the high paid coach he is suppose to be and not like a scared baby sitter.

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KansasComet 3 years, 2 months ago

I am a KU fan and I enjoyed watching the game last night. The reason I enjoyed watching the game last night is because it was a learning experience. It was a tournament game last night. Kansas State had their season on the line last night. They played with passion and they really wanted to win the game and it showed. I was disappointed in our point guard play. Tyshawn Taylor is a good player, but he is a support player, not a leader. He also daydreams on the court and loses focus. I have only seen one game where he has taken over a leadership role and that was his Freshman Year against Oklahoma. Kansas needs to understand that this is how the tournament will be. I like Morningstar and Reed, but they are support players too! Selby on the other hand is a natural leader. He should run the point in my opinion. I say turn him loose and watch him make everyone better. The tournament will bring much more pressure. Last nights game was nothing. Morningstar played 35 minutes and shot the ball 4 times, scoring 6 points. That is not going to get it done. As I have said before when the pressure is great, he tends to defer to others. Reed played 31 minutes and was the only one attacking the goal. He only scored 14 points, but at least he tried. He is just limited in what he can do. The Morris Twins did not play much and Markieff has an intentional foul called. I still say, so what? As far a being called Thugs by some of the poster in this forum, they are not Thugs. I consider what the kid from Miss St. did in Hawaii, when he beat the crap out of one of his teammates in the stand Thuggish Behavior. A player from Kansas got decked the same way as Pullen did last night and no one is bringing that up? All will be fine fellow KU fans. This was a lesson learned. If you think this is rough wait until it is for keeps! I still feel Kansas is the best team in the Nation. Texas got beat down by USC, so no they are not better than the Jayhawks. Don't let the National Media fool you.

  1. Kansas
  2. Ohio State
  3. Texas
  4. Duke
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P0WER 3 years, 2 months ago

I have finally come to my senses. I have taken off the crimson and blue glasses. No more blurred vision, no more drinking of the Kool-Aid. No more thinking I am better than everyone else just because I am a KU fan. It's just a game, not life or death.

I only have one question: Is this team too deep? Would we be better off with 7 guys that play as a unit with one common goal night in and night out instead of 12 guys all trying to get minutes whenever they can and no team chemistry? You be the judge.

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Clarence Haynes 3 years, 2 months ago

At this point there are 300 hits to this story of mischaracterization of Kief's play by the writer.

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No_phog 3 years, 2 months ago

guys who assualt their girl friends are not thugs, really?

Guys who continueously throw illegal elbows are not thugs? really?

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true_patriot 3 years, 2 months ago

That piece seems kind of whiny to me as do lots of the comments. Yes there was lack of composure, yes the twins have more to learn about maintaining there cool and not throwing their elbows around so much, yes TT had a bad game.

Big deal. How quickly we forget what the sentiment was for this group of kids at the beginning of the season last fall. They're just kids - and we've been spoiled by the exceptional level of play and character and coaching we've seen. Injuries and personal emotional traumas and the national spotlight - most of the elite teams have had crappy games to some degree or the other.

I hope last night's loss was a learning experience but why all the intense bashing and denigrating of these young kids? They're not thugs, they're not megalomaniacs, they're not awful. We have one of the greatest programs in the country and we have one game where our team has an off night and can't get into rhythm and suddenly we're all pissy and whiny and petulant? Get over it.

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dArnall 3 years, 2 months ago

And whos calling out the twins and e.j, well lets see, same experts that had K-State league champions. Go ahead and listen to them, seems like thats where you get your info...

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No_phog 3 years, 2 months ago

Shouldn't the coach be held responsible for these short-comings?

I would think SO !

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Ron Franklin 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm not upset about last nights loss. I'm upset that this team has proven over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over............

they do not learn from their past mistakes.

bad shooting night, fine. great defensive scheme by Martin, fine. Blow up crazy in your face Pullen, fine.

Making the same mistakes repeatedly borders on the fringe of insanity. No putting in effort 100% of the time is unacceptable.

regardless of the elbow rule, the twins continue to put themselves in the position to be called for it. fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, right?

Why this team can't be great.

No true point guard No defensive-minded post players Inability to guard 3 ball Inability to stop penetrating guards as shot clock runs down Inconsistent free throwers

ANd one other thing....something I've never seen before, maybe I just have not noticed....but these players are talking back to Coach Self more than I have ever seen before. Get a grip on these kids, Coach. When you allow kids to shout at you from the court, it tells me you've lost control of this team.

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Steve Brown 3 years, 2 months ago

If you don't learn from your mistakes you are bound to repeat them.

I'm glad this happened so we can get exposed and grow from it. We play for the banners in the rafters and unless Texas wheels come off, we aren't playing likely to win the conference crown. So we win the Post season sprint shootout and then on to the dance.

Keep the agents away from our players till season end.

side bar: didn't Taylor play better the last few weeks when Selby was on injured reserve, not looking over his shoulder....maybe just maybe a healtheir Selby makes TT overthink and not play free wheeling.

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dArnall 3 years, 2 months ago

Boy some fans, real K.U FANS? Give it a break these kids have lost 2 games, granted they did not show up last night. Do us real fans a favor and not cheer when they do good, I bet you are the same ones that gave them H--l back in 08 when they went on to win it all and was bragging about it, hum how soon we forget. And check the replay from under the basket, pullen actually ran in to his own mans shoulder before he even touch Morris, and I really think E.J was giving the ref it what for not calling a foul. Just my take on a few things, hey i have an IDEA, why don't all you people that are being so critical to the young men, walk on next time, get out and try to show us how the game is supposed to be played,,,ha

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dynamitehawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I really can't believe we are 24-2. Unreal, given that last year we lost two lottery picks and Sherron and his balls of steel.

Great season so far. Bad loss, but I predict at team meeting shortly. Hopefully the outcome cuttin' nets.

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hawksfan08 3 years, 2 months ago

This what have you done for me lately stuff is absurd.

Look back at the 08 team. They got drubbed in Manhattan by an unranked k-state team. It worked out alright for them I'd say. I would bet the comments on this bored looked a lot similar then. (That team also lost to texas and osu in conference play).

How quickly everyone forgets selby was averaging 14 and 5 in the 3 games before he was hurt. Or that TRob is probably our 3rd best player and we have no depth without him up front

They'll learn from the loss and get better. I do hope I never see a KU team quit like that again though. Everyone outside of Reed looked like they would've rather been on a bus home after the half.

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Kye Clark 3 years, 2 months ago

(cont.) Immediately after the game it was the first thing up on Sportscenter, and they led into it with the quote from Marcus about wanting to be #1 because he wanted to get everybody's best shot and he thought they could take it. In retrospect, has there ever been a more foolish comment? If they can't take the best shot from a middle of the road, one offensive weapon team like K-State, if they can't fight through a bad game to at least compete...Self clearly has his work cut out for him trying to get this team ready for the NCAA tournament. No more worrying about chasing down Texas for the league crown. That's gone. No more talk about chasing down the #1 ranking. That's gone. Just focus on getting better.

Regarding Markieff's intentional foul - it may be time for Self to sit him down for a game. I know in doing this he will also be getting punished for Marcus's sins, lumping all their thuggery together and labeling it "the Twins", but something has to happen. This was supposedly addressed this week! What is it going to take for these guys to understand? If one of these guys does this in a tournament game...all the hard work of their teammates, the coaching staff...gone. A whole season can be flushed down the drain - even if they don't get ejected - because they are that important to this team. And in the post-game discussion I saw many posters defending the play as incidental. After watching it another dozen times or so...no way. He wasn't rebounding, didn't have the ball, wasn't tied up with anybody - so what was his elbow doing up at shoulder level? He clearly had that guy in his field of vision - not like he had his back turned and didn't know he was coming. This team needs to understand that there is a difference between playing tough, and playing dirty. Between having some swagger and class, and acting like knuckleheads. Which...Elijah - what are you doing? Why are you jawing at and staring down a guy after a dunk when your team is down by...15 or whatever it was at that point? Ridiculous.

The other thing that I feel worth mentioning was that last night's broadcast reaffirmed my belief that Bob Knight is brutal. His "favorite play of the year", where Pullen shot faked and got Tyshawn in the air resulting in 3 free throws, while a smart play on Pullen's part was a totally bogus call. He had to cock out his hip while jumping sideways to initiate that contact, and not one mention of that from Knight. Then he started in with the ridiculous counting in spanish. Later in the game he said (paraphrasing a bit) "I think it's real important for Kansas to get a bucket here, just like it's real important for K-State to get a bucket on their next possession." Huh? No more further analysis or explanation? So you're saying in basketball it's important to score? Thanks. I had no idea.

Hoping these guys have a long, grueling week of practice and get their heads on right.

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Kye Clark 3 years, 2 months ago

Posted this on another thread, but since this seems to be the normal post-game feed today I'll re-post here (not sure when Keegan's articles became the norm that everyone posted on, but no matter):

What an absolute embarrassment. KU did nothing well last night (except for shoot free throws, in which they were adequate). No semblance of an offense, poor defense (all though I will say not quite as poor as the stats/score indicate. Many of Pullen's shots were closely guarded), out-manned on the glass, and didn't take care of the ball. Plenty of blame to go around, but certainly some parties are more responsible for this debacle than others. Tyshawn...I'm done holding out any hope for him. I was fooled once by his play in the early non-conference part of the season, then I was starting to get my hopes up just a bit after the Iowa State game. But he simply does not make his teammates better, and is not a threat to take over a game himself. We were all talked into this "we can live with a couple of his brain-dead plays because those will be out-weighed by his 'wow' plays and overall positive contributions"...anyone buying that now? I'm sure his supporters will say I'm being overly-critical of him and that while yes he had a horrible game it was just one game, but the more I watch him play the more I think we simply "hide" his mistakes when things are going good, but when we're not playing well he will never be one to right the ship, but instead will hasten along its sinking. Hopefully coach Self finally realized this last night, and that is why he played Selby. Reading into his comments, both here and in his post-game radio interview with Chris Piper, this may be the case.

Regarding Selby, I've been saying since his injury that we need him back and into rhythm quickly, and have been debated by posters that we play better without him. My argument has been that every other one of our perimeter players is capable of performing at a high level and positively impacting the game, but only in a complimentary capacity. When the Twins are ineffective, contained, in foul trouble, etc we cannot lean on any of these guys. We cannot run offense through them. Nobody wanted to see it because everyone was playing so great and they couldn't fathom the Twins being taken out of their game. Reality hit hard last night. When we can't run offense though the Twins we have no clear second plan of attack. I don't know that Selby will progress enough in the amount of time we have left to be the guy that can carry us through some stretches, but he has the skill set to do so. Early in the game I thought he was pretty invisible out there, but was simply glad he was out there. He needs to know he can play through that pain. In the second half I saw some glimpses of him being aggressive, taking the ball to the hoop and whatnot, so I am encouraged a bit.

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KUmtbiker 3 years, 2 months ago

KU wasn't mentally ready and they were taken by surprise, so when things weren't going well, they got tensed up and made bad plays mentally and physically, end of story. They'll learn from this and will improve. I can't believe all the posters on here that are so ready to bash the players, coaching, and whatever else they thought of while sitting on their comfy couches.

Markieff's intentional foul was not intentional and had nothing to do with his "bad attitude". He, like the rest of the team was starting to question every move and was late getting to where he knew he should be. Just because Pullin's face is at the height of his elbows doesn't mean it was intentional, he was just late in trying to make the correct play. Quit watching in slow motion where everything looks so calculated. If you've ever played the game, these things happen.

EJ's technical was uncalled for, but if it would have sparked emotion and put KU on a run to catch K-State, this also wouldn't be an issue. KU plays with an attitude this year that many years in the past we've lacked. Although that attitude needs to be demonstrated in a more positive way, you have to take the good with the bad.

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Justin Carlson 3 years, 2 months ago

Thank you sir!! Man it is hard to watch the game with my kids and explain to them why the Morris' cryin instead of playing!! Why is Tyrel playing in severe pain and Josh isn't! When I told them after the Jordan Brand announcement he was a stud! Was I wrong!!

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Woody Cragg 3 years, 2 months ago

Like that? That's Lee Ermy from his drill instructor psychiatrist comercial for Gieco. Funny commercial.

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Justin Carlson 3 years, 2 months ago

OK FOLKS!! A loss is just 1 loss! Maybe not!! I pose this question to all of you would you rather win with a team that represents the university with class, hard work, and respect? Or would you take a team with leaders that if they were not involved with basketball may be in jail (insert Philly and Jersey) I dont get it and I have a hard time understanding the way coach disciplines the crew. Football and Facebook TT? He is still a no balling selfish baby! The twins BS has no control on them what so ever! N O N E! Should have dealt with it after the Cal game! NOPE! Meanwhile we rally around a tradegy and refocus but still the underlying problems exsists Mental midgets leading the team.

Hey coach when recruiting think 4 year classy/respectful players that will wear the uniform with pride and not disrespect the whole university!!

By the way Josh lift up your shirt and ask Tyrel how a man is supposed to play!!

Tyrel Reed is still the man!!

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shinguard 3 years, 2 months ago

At this point, Angel's jersey has a better chance of being hung from the rafters than her sons

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4jhawks4ku 3 years, 2 months ago

Kansas is 24-2. Granted we didnt play well at all. Careless 7 or 8 turnovers, Mario Little shooting everytime he touched the ball.. Missed free throws. We also received 8 or 9 highly phantom lean in fouls, phantom travelling calls, and others. Lets face it, from now on we won't be getting any calls from these big 12 refs so we'll have to play that much harder. I'm sure they'll get it together by Saturday. All you good timers and trolls can now go back to your own sites. KU fans who are turning on the team should be ashamed.

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Clarence Haynes 3 years, 2 months ago

Let us all applaud Reed for a good game!

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Woody Cragg 3 years, 2 months ago

Cont...If you clear guys out with the ball instead of elbows you don't get the foul. That's what we were taught. Clear them hard too, the ball in the face hurts bad enough. Just hooking arms does not get position either. You have to get your legs & feet on the topside as well. They WILL back off. These guys are in need of D for discipline and no one showed up last night. That was the worst beatdown I remember them taking in a couple of years (maybe Okie St). Glad it ain't my job to fix it cause they wouldn't be my friends for very long afterwards. They'd damn sure remember what I wanted them to correct. JMO right or wrong.

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douglas6280 3 years, 2 months ago

Too bad Self has to try and coach some of his players that are essentially 14 year old kids in a man's body (the twins, Taylor, Johnson, and Little). Of course he has done little to mange/change their behavior. Benching them for entire games might do the trick. This team has zero chance of making it to a Final Four.

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Woody Cragg 3 years, 2 months ago

First off the elbow rule is bull$hit. A fist to the face didn't get a look but a 6'9" elbow at face level 6'2" or whatever always does. That being said, the guys that occasionally show up with the all about me attitude will bring this "team" down. I really think they will review or change the video rule on the elbows but that will not help the trash talk, or whining & pi$$ing & moaning. Personally I'd run em till they drop. And if that didn't work I'd run em some more. Old school coaches would suspend them, run them, kick the living $hit out of them until they conformed or left. Coaches with gazillion dollar deals don't work that way anymore. First thing I would do is bench Selby. If he can't get it done he can't play. How long has HCBS been dealing with the flagrant foul crap? All season? Bench em. If it costs a loss tough stuff. Sit em down-for longer than one friggin game. If they take their toys & go home let em go. There's not enough minutes to go around now & alot more talent coming in. JMO but if TT had to carry the ball everywhere he went for a couple of weeks, he might learn how to take care of it.

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WDC_Jayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Keegan makes a good point that a better writer would have made two or three games ago, and one that is less apropos after the Kansas State game than it was in previous games.

The Morris twins have a completely bewildering tendency to behave like nitwits and, occasionally, bullies. Last night, having watched the replay two or three times, I can't really tell that Markieff was trying to shiv Pullen. I think it was more a situation of a forearm riding up than of him trying to tomahawk the dude. And it makes even less sense when you consider that the Morri have previously stated that they're tight with Pullen off the court. I could understand a hard foul on a friend, but it's harder to imagine punching them in the face on purpose.

As far as the game goes, that was completely miserable, easily one of the five worst Kansas losses of the Bill Self era, including tournament upsets.There was a complete lack of intensity and it's startling when you can tell a team has given up 10 minutes from the end of the game.

But I also think this game said more about Kansas State than it did about us. That team desperately needed to answer the bell, or it will not make the NCAA tournament. That team played at home, had a jacked up Octogon of Doom (loath as I am to call it that) behind them and they had a very good player who finally went off. Fair play to them.

There were disconcerting moments throughout that game, but I tend to think that, rather than micro-analysis, the best thing to do is to look at the response. Was this the beginning of a tank-job? Or was it an aberration. It is easy to forget that two of Kansas' three best teams of all time had disheartening, even frightening downturns around this time of the year. In fact, both the '88 and '08 squads lost to Kansas State! As someone mentioned, '08 also had a couple of humiliating losses on the road in the Big 12.

I don't want to sound pollyannaish. But while I think this game raises the warning level on this team, more evidence is needed before declaring them dead.

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Jack Wilson 3 years, 2 months ago

(cont) My concern about TT is that he refuses to be a distributor. I say "refuse" because we saw him do this much more effectively in the first 9 games of the season, when he averaged 6.4 assists per game. Now he is at 4.7. What's worse, he is well below 4.7 since the first 9 games to move the average down to 4.7 from 6.4. In the first 9 games .. and I posted this at the time .. I felt that I was watching a new player. That fizzled, by coincidence or not, the exact same moment that Selby stepped on the court vs. USC. Now, he is basically the exact same player we had last season, but he’s on the ball. Not good. He is a poor shooter from the outside, and he is a below average finisher on the drive. And he doesn’t create.

To win a national championship this season, coach Self needs to engage in a calculated roll of the dice. Three considerations

  1. Do we have a reasonable opportunity to win the NCAA championship with TT as the point guard? and
  2. Would another alternative provide us the potential to increase our chances of winning it all? and
  3. Is the risk of a switch at point guard worth the gamble vs. staying the course?

My answers are 1) No , 2) Yes, and 3) Yes.

Two thoughts - 1. Immediately insert Selby as the point guard, and have TT be your back-up point guard, moving him to the 2 spot as the starter. 2. Make EJ your starting point guard, put Selby at the 2. TT off the bench.

I understand that there will be some low points, but pick one and just do it. Heck, the low points are likely no lower than TT's game last night, right? To do otherwise is to ignore the obvious problem. To refuse to even attempt to adjust is to bury your head in the sand and to accept your fate. I understood some of the discussion about TT getting an opportunity to improve. When will it happen? Sometimes, as a coach, you might be surprised that there may actually be another way that ends up working, that is different than your initial thought.

Look, I get it .. Selby is not playing well; EJ has had major downers. But what else do you do? I, for one, would no longer place the fate of this team in a point guard that is not cut out for the job at the D-1 level. He is generally a solid role player. Just not a D-1 point guard, on an elite team. He can play an important role on this team .. just not the #1 point guard.

I would choose option 1 .. I would say “Josh, you’re the man. Make your teammates better.” And I would give him the ball, be patient, understanding that rolls of the dice can come up snake eyes. But sometimes, you roll a winner.

This team can win a national championship. It just needs a tweak.

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Jhawk59 3 years, 2 months ago

The Morris twins previous behavior earned Markieff that foul last night, I'm not convinced that elbow was purposeful.

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Jack Wilson 3 years, 2 months ago

(cont) Here is the portion of my post last night regarding the point guard play:

  1. Tyshawn Taylor. 7 turnovers. First, do not believe the ESPN stat track or any boxscore that says 6 turnovers. Go to the 4:53 mark of the first half. The turnover was given to Reed. However, TT delivered a perfect pass, right to Reed’s foot, that bounced directly out of bounds. Reed never caught the ball, and couldn’t. Self immediately took Taylor out. 7 turnovers, 1 assist. 5 turnovers in the first half. Again, as I’ve said, zero creation from the point (other than one drive from the wing, and dish to Marcus that got blocked). Perfect example of what I’ve been saying. There will be games where we’ll need it. Where guys aren’t hot, where we need something from our point guard to get us in a flow, to create points. And what did we get? Nothing. I caught some flak for pointing out that TT’s games vs. MU and ISU were both poor. Those of you that continually sing TT's praises are .. respectfully .. not grasping what it means to be a point guard. Perhaps tonight will help. It does not mean lowering your head and going to the hoop. It does not mean clanking a floater hoping someone rebounds and scores. It does not mean a simple pass to the wing (one handed or otherwise). Being a point guard means making your teammates better, leading a break, driving and dishing, creating open shots, lobs for a dunk, threading the needle. It means assists before any other stat column. He was so bad, Self benched him for long stretches, playing him a season low 22 minutes. This has been and is incredibly concerning. It is hard to imagine Royce Woolridge playing this poorly in 22 minutes. Painful to watch. If we get reliable point guard play in the first half, perhaps one turnover instead of 6 point guard turnovers (5 from TT, 1 from EJ), and 4 or 5 baskets created, this is a different game. A different game. One assist in 22 minutes. I remained hopeful that he can revert to early season form. I have perhaps lost faith.

  2. More point guard. We are playing major stretches, trying to come back, with Reed and Brady at the 1 and 2. Come on. Seriously? At KU? The situation at point guard is our Achilles' heel.

  3. Without a doubt, we need Selby back in the flow. Get the guy healthy. And give him the ball. Just give him the ball. Make him the point guard and bite the bullet. I'm interested in better alternatives. But there are none.


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Jack Wilson 3 years, 2 months ago

This team can still win the national championship. Repeat .. this team can still win the national championship. What has changed? What is there about this team that we (some) didn't already know prior to Monday? Nothing.

  1. We do not have a play-maker at point guard that values the assist over his personal scoring.
  2. We have a point-guard who is prone to blow-ups like last night, and stretches of horribly inconsistent play.
  3. Marcus and Markieff have significant emotional control issues.

These are the main talking points. But nothing has changed, has it? I know some continually defended our point guard, but last night might even sway them a bit. But TT is still valuable to this team, and a necessary component to our success. But my point is (and has been for some time) that we need more out of our point guard. All of the evidence has been there all along .. losses just cause many to notice as the power of the “we’re 24-1, why are you complaining” argument has less luster.

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Dyrk Dugan 3 years, 2 months ago

i am frankly surprised at what happened last night...not the L, but the thrasing we absorbed. it was twofold:

  1. ksu's D. FRUSTRATED the heck out of us. our offense was completely out of sync. and this is my first complaint against the twins. they didn't work hard enough...and our guards forgot how to dribble drive or handle the ball.

  2. KU's D. again just frustrating to watch. too many open looks....too many jump ups on fakes. Pullen played us to the hilt last night....Tyshawn wasn't really close to him on the three when he was fouled...but it LOOKED like it to each official, standing on the side of the play...if they were facing him head on, no way is that a foul....Pullen jumped into him. but it will always be called, because we were out of position. and if i see one more duck down beneath screens at the top of the key, i will lose it. Tyshawn did it all first half...and Pullen dissected us.

  3. Twins composure. both got into foul trouble....Markieff, the leading rebounder in the league, had zero. how do you not get a rebound when you play half the game? and the intentional foul? bogus call. like someone posted above, he was leaning into Kelly to screen him...and Pullen went right in between....again, another great acting job by Jacob (academy anyone?), so when Higgins calls the foul he thinks to himself..."those twins again, was that an elbow to the face?...let's go look at it." so they look at it. i don't care what anyone says, he did NOT intentionally hit him in the face or head. i mean seriously, do you want Pullen to go through both guys cleanly to get to the shooter? I don't.....no, i don't want the guy punched to prevent it...but that's not what was going on. he was moving to screen KELLY..and had his arms up. the old joke applies here..."i hit him hard with my face on his fist."

we need Selby AND TRob back healthy. all the talk above about the point guard play...well, Josh should be able to help with that. he has NOT had continuous time to develop...he was just starting to get there before the last injury...and now he's re learning again. we need TRob back too. he was really getting going since his mom's passing...and now he'll have retest everything, because physically, i don't know how he can be 100% even after he comes back.

Bottom line: K-state played thug ball, Pullen was brilliant, the crowd was there..and we didn't handle it at all. period. one game...they're now 3-42 vs. us the last 17 years...we'll start a new streak next time. let's get ready for the 'Buffs.

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jayhawkinnebr 3 years, 2 months ago

I hope that Self doesn't have the same contract that Gill has. We don't want Gill for another 4 years, what about Self, maybe one more. The Morris boys and Self is letting this get out of hand. The Ku basketball team plays as dirty as the Cornhusker football team. We sure don't need anymore 5th seniors as with Brady M. what a dud.

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Rodney Atkinson 3 years, 2 months ago

That's just what I'm talking about (jman). We are spoiled and unappreciative. How many fans have what we have or would give to have it. We are truly blessed.

There is nothing better than sitting in THE FIELDHOUSE and experiencing the moment. RCJH always.

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kennethst 3 years, 2 months ago

Seriously.....can anybody see Tyshawn Taylor leading KU through the gauntlet of NCAA tournement games to a championship??? No.....you can't. And that is the real shame. This team could be great with a PG.....but we don't have one.

TT has some talent and could contribute....but we need a Sherron Collins or Russell Robinson.

I will still hope for the best......but my guess is an early exit in March. I just don't see it after last night. Yes....it was only 1 game......but the problems are so evident.

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Steve Gantz 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't have time to read all this, it's probably been said, but, Injuries have really hurt this team right now. TRob and Selby would have helped last night. Elijah's dunk was spectacular, too bad he lost his composure so quickly. I did think he was fouled, but just can't do that at that point. Probably wouldn't have mattered one way or another.

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Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 2 months ago

wWhen I say Sunday's JW with the big headlines proclaiming that the Ohio State loss had propelled Kansas to "#1" (what's THAT??) I knew the predictable outcome. It has happened so many times before when the sports jock writers get the runs with their mouth and pen and start saying these stupid things. These kids can read. And they are kids. They seem to think they can make some sort of worthy statement by disfiguring their arms and bodies with churlish grafitti, that this mutilation is somehow "adjult" That alone belies an attitude of a small child who has very little onnection to the real world and it applies very much to these sorts of situations.

The notion of "#1" is a stupid notion to begin with, any team can beat any team given the conditions, and last night the conditions were ripe for the "horrible loss" as some of you have stated. It was coming sometime soon. Texas proved that these child-men could be defeated in a game, and that alone should have been the wake-up call. The attitudes displayed by the grafitti stained bodies of some of these child-boys is very poor and very childish and marks them as unreliable and undependable. And when they finally do have to find a real job, they will discover their billboards to the world that were so cool to the chicks in college are markers to a boss and employer of pretty immature character.

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jman18562 3 years, 2 months ago

WOW. You guys are pathetic. You all adored this "horrible, pathetic, embarrassing, miserable, low life thug team" less than 24 hours ago. You thought they were awesome. You were so in love with the stories of adversity this team brought you. And the Morris twin were unstoppable super stars making KU a lock to win the Natty Championship.

Well guess what? They just lost the second game of the season against a team that loathe and hate the hawks. This was K-States National Championship. But what do you do? Cry, point fingers, and trash talk your own team. They play like Champs for 24 games and at the first sign of trouble you bail on them? Well, get over it. Because this team will get over it. What kind of fans are you?

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saad007 3 years, 2 months ago

Tyshawn is NOT worthy of being a Kansas basketball STARTING point guard. And before you starting calling me bandwagon fan and TT basher, please rest assured that I am a diehard fan and a jayhwak for life, with my future children and their children becoming jayhawks as well. And I really don't enjoy writing this post but I have to. I love KU basketball so much that it hurts me to watch TT play as carelessly and irresponsably as he does. Man I would give my life to have the chance that TT has representing KU on the court. But he does it so badly it kills me. I feel he takes his starting spot for granted. He just thinks that no matter how he plays, he will still see major playing time. And that's to be blamed on Self in my opinion. How do you keep a PG on the floor that has 1 assist and 6 turnovers??!!! This was the perfect opportunity for Self to bench TT and teach him a lesson and make him earn his playing time. I have NEVER watched a starting PG at KU that takes such bad care of the basketball. This actually upsets me more than the loss. There were several problems that surfaced during the game last night (lack of strong inside presence when needed, lack of discipline, lack of composure, etc..) but I believe those problems can be fixed by march. What I'm REALLY worried about is the fact that we don't have a good point guard running the team. and that is a prerequisite for a good tournament run. You win championships with strong guard play. Am I the only one concerned about this? Please share your feedbacks

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tauck 3 years, 2 months ago

billy boy, billy boy, billy boy.....you best get control of your team discipline wise and you better do it now. Nobody is to blame for our problems discipline wise except you. You know as well as I do that it all starts from the top and the top is YOU!!! Here is a rule we use on the high school level...when a call is made against you, hand the ball to the official and sprint to the other end of the court and get set up and focused on defense. If it is an off the ball call, then sprint down to the other end of the court and get focused on defense. when you slam dunk, before any other celebrating is done or jungle yells are given, you must first acknowledge the pass. Failure to do these things will result in remooval from the game. During a game my word is law, any backtalk will result in immediate removal from the game without the possibility of return. The game is not the time to be questioning me, thats why god created an office with a door thats always open and also practice. In these to places ask me as many questions as you'd like

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Rodney Atkinson 3 years, 2 months ago

It's a loss, get over it. These r kids playing ball, not your own personal rag dolls. It's unbelievable how so many of u HAWK fans get on here and throw everybody under the bus because they weren't perfect for you last night.

R there problems? 90% of you lick the sweat off the floor from our players until they loose a game and then OMG "the sky is falling".

Now half of you want to reinvent HCBS coaching philosophy, change the lineup and offer all of your remedies, based on all of your inexperiences.

Most of you should take another look at why you call yourselves KU fans?

I love this university, and this program and what it stands for.

And for all you Digger Phelps, and Bob Newharts-----PLZ!

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Steve Brown 3 years, 2 months ago

We have a week to mend.

next saturday game, anyone know the best KU sports bar in Long Boat Key or Bradenton?

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simpsonjayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Jack Nickalaus used to say how the trick to golf was controlling your "mis hits". And used to claim that he would really only catch the ball flush a handful of times in a round. Obviously a different sport, but I think it holds true to basketball as well. A team can't play great every night, but you have to find a way to keep composure and stay under control on off nights and keep yourself in the game. We have the ability to play lights out and probably beat anyone in the country, but I didn't see a shred of composure last night and for me that is a major cause for concern. We lose by 2, by 4 or even 10, I'm unhappy but not terribly concerned. We lose by 20, to a crappy K State team and thats a different issue. You can try and twist this into a positive all you want, but this team has serious problems right now.

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jayhawkintx73 3 years, 2 months ago

The intentional called on Markieff, viewing the video. He did not throw his elbow. The player ran through him. That set the tone for the rest of the game. The refs weren't calling what they saw. They were calling it what they seemed to want it to be.

Johnson's T foul shouldn't have been. Pullen taunted several times,which would have disqualified him from the game because a T counts against the 5 T-s.

With that said, it was a mismanaged game by KU and by the refs. There is no reason that K-State couldn't have won the game, but they are certainly not 20 points better than KU on any day without help from non-players.

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Michael Leiker 3 years, 2 months ago

The Twins rough play still doesn't bother me. The constant scouling and acting like they're getting screwed on every call is what drives me crazy. They are physical players which is one of the things that makes them as good as they are. I just wish they'd own it and run with it. College Basketball has gotten too soft anyway. Loved the hard foul by Whithey on Pullen towards the end of the game.

I for one am happy we are going to have Frank the Tank in Manhattan for a while longer now that he's won two against KU. Kansas needs a real rival in KSU, and while adding a game a piece vs the South next year should supply some needed rivalries, I think it benefits KU to have a respectable KSU basketball program. This has been a zero sum game for too long, with KSU getting back to it's old self it makes the State of Kansas sysnonymous with basketball more than it already is. That exposure is good for both programs in the medium and long term. And with Frank at the helm, KU will always hold the moral high ground.

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kennethst 3 years, 2 months ago

Funny.....I don't see many comments on here anymore about Selby being "10 times better" than X. Henry.

Oops.

The reality is that Selby has been a collosal failure. Some due to injury.....but mostly not.

KU should avoid any further persuit of supposed "one and done" players. They seem to be a nightmare for the program.....especially KU.

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jakejayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

You can say what you want about the twins' attitudes and you will be correct. They have had significant problems this year. But last night was not an example. I believe it is unfair and irresponsible to write this article predicated on the elbow Markief "threw". The replays made it clear that he was setting up to keep his big man from moving, not to cheap shot Pullen. Yes, he made strong contact with Pullen, but that forearm was moving toward the big guy, not a guard. Pullen ran into the arm as much as 'Kief "threw" it at him. Your observation that previous behavior is resulting in tight calls is accurate. And this is a good example. My two cents.

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FLJHK 3 years, 2 months ago

Misc thoughts

  1. I want to and generally will think of this game as an anomaly. Until last night, the growth and improvement of this team over the course of the season has been extremely impressive. Last night was a major hiccup, but doesn't mean the season is lost in any way. How they react to the debacle will determine that. Losses can be a bigger learning tool than wins.

  2. I wish we scheduled more challenging early season games. Feasting on the empty calories of cupcakes does not a tough team make.

  3. The only other time I remember such a thorough beat-down during the Self era was in 2005 at Villanova. That season ended with the tourney loss to Bucknell.

  4. Hope we can avoid the state of Oklahoma for the tourney. There are 1st and 2nd round games in Tulsa. Note to NCAA - send Texas there, not Kansas.

Despite today's depression and a few ominous signs, I retain hope and belief that this could be a very special season.

RCJH

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Randy Eakin 3 years, 2 months ago

Look at the bright side...while the twins arguably played their way into the NBA against Baylor, they likely played their way back for a senior season last night. Rock Chalk!!

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ralphralph 3 years, 2 months ago

Tyshawn is gonna need a Pell Grant.

Surely, after the way Pullen schooled him, there must be some Tuition due.

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William Blake 3 years, 2 months ago

Kieff deserved the intentional call and was lucky he wasn't ejected.

Yes, he was bringing up his arms to get post position... but he was facing Pullen and saw him coming through the gap, so he gave an extra shove while carrying his elbows high. It was dirty and intentional. He could have actually stopped Pullen's progress by closing the distance faster and keeping his arms low. That would have filled the space and kept Pullen from cutting through. That is not what he did.

The refs got that one right.

Everyone can argue until they are blue in the face. Go ahead and blame it on the poor reputation of the twins, but he deserved it, and there are more of these to come if he keeps pulling these stunts.

Pullen was cleaver last night. He was doing about what I said the twins should do more of... drawing the foul by throwing in theatrics.

How did you all like it when he caught Brady a couple of times when Brady jumped to his side, missing Pullen, but Pullen totally going against the direction of the basket to draw the foul while shooting by jumping into Brady? It gained him at least 5 FTs, including a shooting foul from 3.

I think refs need to wise up a bit. It is good basketball when shooters draw fouls.... but when they totally go in the wrong direction with their only intention to draw the foul it becomes clear they never intended to really shoot. At that point, the defensive player has earned his own real estate and shouldn't be called for the foul, even if in the air. Both of those calls he got on Brady were bull (I'm guessing his 3pt drawn foul was on Brady, but not sure).

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Dee Shaw 3 years, 2 months ago

Who cares. We lost. Does it really matter. No. All we should care about is March. Prediction. We finish the year 28-3. Second seed in the Big 12 tournament. Win the Big 12 Tournament. Enter the NCAA tournament as a #2 seed. The the real season starts. Sorry the regular season means nothing to me. All we should care about is winning six games in a row in March. If the regular season means so much than last year was an awesome year. No, it was not an awesome. It was disappointing how it ended. Why, because of March. All we remember is loosing in March against N. Iowa. Like I said, Its all about March Madness BABY.

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hkdonhoops 3 years, 2 months ago

For those defending him, EJ is fortunate that he didn't pick up a second technical for his reaction to the T for taunting. In my opinion, that showed his immaturity more than the reaction to the dunk.

I've wanted for EJ to step up and be a reliable player this year, but untimely turnovers and bad decision-making have been his undoing. I hope he learns from this because the team will need him this year and certainly next year (if he stays).

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Michael Luby 3 years, 2 months ago

KU got their A$$e$ handed to them last night. There is no other way around it. This team looks to go 13 - 3 in conference play, and probly # 2 or even 3 in the conference behind Texas. Prior comments above in reference to a Team only meeting and the Twins' Mom having a come to jesus with them are mandatory at this point. As well as HCBS using the tape from that horrid game as a huge teaching moment and motivator to respond like men to adversity from here on out or face going home like they did last year, which I know they dont want to do.

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slowplay 3 years, 2 months ago

It was only 1 game. This is still the same team that has won 24 games and destroyed K-State at the Phog. I'm sure HCBS will use this game as teaching tool and a motivator as KU finishes up the regular season. No matter how good you are, you are always susceptible to a bad game. i.e. Duke vs St, Johns, Texas vs USC etc. etc. It's how you respond to adversity that counts. The TA&M game and closing out at Mizz will be more of a barometer of what this team is capable of come March 17th. The Big 12 Tourney may also feature a re-match with Texas. That's the game I'd like to see.

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Nicholas Cederlind 3 years, 2 months ago

Lack of post presence killed us. This is my official plea to ask Coach Self to PLEASE play Withey more!! I don't care if he's not Aldrich - just create a PRESENCE! And please have the twins JUMP when teams attack our bigs. Tristan Thompson of TX and Henriquez of KSU jumped right over them to the bucket!

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lama 3 years, 2 months ago

When Selby is healthy, Self needs to turn the team over and diminish Taylor's role. Too many silly mistakes and defensive lapses. Let's see what Selby can do with his playmaking ability.

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JayhawkBeerman 3 years, 2 months ago

Great article that needs to be said. The lack of maturity and composure of this team will cost us in the tournament. It takes character to play defense and stop a run. I am extremely concerned if we have enough character to take us far. It is up to Coach Self and staff to try and do what they can to band-aid some together for this team...

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RockChalk360 3 years, 2 months ago

If you guys want to win you have to want it. Last year Marcus, you made an excuse for losing to Northern Iowa. You said that if you played them 100 more times, you would win all 100. Well you know what?! YOU LOST!You play each team once in the tournament. You're a Junior now, and were a Sophomore when you made the comment, I think you should understand that. This year, you lost to Texas at Allen Fieldhouse... and you said you didn't sleep because you stayed up with T-Rob all night. I understand that you were with him, but you have to play hard. Look for reasons to play hard instead of making excuses. Play for T'Rob's mom. Play every game for her. Losing to K-State in unacceptable. You just don't let it happen. So don't even think about making an excuse this time. Take each game like it's your last and win the rest with some momentum going into the tournament. Let's step it up!Rock Chalk!

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Cora Smith 3 years, 2 months ago

We have never protected a number one ranking well. We do not have a true point guard who looks to assist first and shoot second. We will not go far in the NCAA with that kind of deficit. One time TT was just dribbling up court by himself and lost the ball.

The Morris twins are giving the refs exactly what they want when they try to get in some little retaliation or extra attempt to intimidate.

Major upset in the second round. Well within the realm of possibility.

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RyanKCMO 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm with kushaw...there are real concerns, but we can't overreact every time we lose a game, however ugly it was. We do need Selby and TRob 100% healthy and we need better out of TT who had been playing pretty well lately but laid a big egg last night, more out of Brady and better D out of everyone. But we can't throw our team under the bus for for a terrible one after they just rattled off the best 3 week stretch of the season. I do agree with some other posters though-EJ and Releford need more mins in games like that. And I've thought for a long time there are harmful/nonsensical double standards on when some guys are yanked for mistakes or how many mistakes they can make vs. others. But whadda I know?

The Twins are marked men, ala Jeff Graves. Yeah they've done a few things to bring it on themselves, but some of the times they were defending themselves or teammates and that one last night was bs. Pullen and his stupid Amish beard was allowed to initiate any contact he wanted, including that play and the one where he dipped to the left to run into Taylor. I guess they're letting him get his NBA fantasy out now by playing with NBA rules for him only, since he won't get an actual chance to play in the NBA next year.

On a related note, Big 12 coaches need to band together and get John Higgins and a couple other refs ran out of the league. The best refs are the ones you don't know and he's one of these guys that thinks everyone's paying to see him make an @ss out o himself.

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Robert Brock 3 years, 2 months ago

I would like to see Taylor and Johnson ride the pine with Reed and Morningstar sharing the point duties. They may not be as quick, but they value the ball and don't tend to make bone-headed mistakes like TT and EJ.

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No_phog 3 years, 2 months ago

what a difference a few days make....

“What fits me are personalities,” Self said. “I don’t like coaching duds, I’ll be the first to tell you. Give me a guy you can joke with and have some fun with. That’s one reason I love coaching the twins. They’re really funny. They’ll say things during games that crack me up. I like guys with personality and (who) are a little rough around the edges.”

Sometimes, the Morris twins and Tyshawn Taylor, the liveliest personalities on a colorful team, even say funny things during postgame news conferences. Saturday, after a ho-hum, 89-66 obliteration of Iowa State, was one such day.

They’re never dull, which usually, not always, but usually, is a good thing that adds to their appeal.

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kushaw 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm also wondering why people compare this team to 08? It's unfair and it's unrealistic. This team has their own identity and they are trying to find that one common bond that makes them truly a "Team". At the moment, they are about as far away from that 08 team and that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

This 2010-2011 team has had so many lineup changes because of injuries, deaths, suspensions, etc etc, it's hard to find that "Flow" with so many changes. I think the KU team has shown it in the 6 games after the Texas loss, but they are going to have to find another gear after this K-State loss. They are going to have to get back to work, roll up their sleaves, and get dirty.

That 08 team lost 2 of 3 games between Feb. 11th and Feb 23rd. With that said, the 08 team also had a constant lineup from Feb. on into March. This team isn't anywhere near having that stability in their lineup as of now. If anything, this 2010-2011 team is trying to prove that they belong with the elite of college basketball and that is exactly what they were trying to do in the 07 season when they lost to UCLA in the Elite 8.

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RockChalk26 3 years, 2 months ago

We got our butts kicked last night. Yes, the twins didn't make the trip to Manhattan. Yes, our defense was not intense. Yes, we did not crash the glass. But my bright spot of the game was one of the low points for most of you other posters.

EJ was ready to go off last night and we benched him for one bad pass and for showing too much emotion after a dunk. I understand why Self benched EJ after the technical for the dunk, but I don't understand why he didn't go back into the game. Last night the team lacked emotion and EJ was the only one who should some. We needed a player like that on the court last night.

One thing about EJ's play is when he is hot, he is hot. When he is knocking down threes and ripping down dunks he is at his best. So what, he had one bad turn over, TT had six bad turnovers. Keep EJ in the game, the guy can flat out ball if given the chance.

RCJH!

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cobweb 3 years, 2 months ago

Oh, chill everybody on the twins. They are model players 95% of the time. They're kids, for God's sake. It's not like they have some weird personality disorder - LIKE BOBBY KNIGHT!

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William Blake 3 years, 2 months ago

Saint Valentine's Day massacre - (if the name fits, wear it)

What a massacre... we didn't execute on either side of the ball. KSU could have scored on us blindfolded, with their hands tied behind their back, and playing on their knees.

I felt like this could happen ever since the Mizzou game at home, when they hung 86 points on us in our own gym. And for whatever pleasure we get at watching this team on the offensive end... it is now giving us equal suffering to watch their defense. They would have competed closer last night if they had just stood back on defense and conceded a quick layup every time by KSU... at least it would have saved plenty of clock for us to try our offense. Instead... every time down KSU would burn the clock down to a few seconds then easily score. The worst possible outcome. Controlling the tempo, reducing overall possessions, and scoring at a super high %. Doesn't get any better for the Wildcats!

What this game showed us, more than anything else... is just how much this team relies on the twins. So when they don't bring game, we get blown out. And an argument can be made about how much we need TRob. With TRob it is more than adding on his stats to our bottom line... it is the energy he brings to the game. We are lucky to have him and hope he returns soon!

Why didn't the twins bring game? I'm not sure why, but I have worked with inner city kids before and there is something similar I found in all those kids. They would work hard and do their best, except every once in a while they would just bring nothing to the gym. I'm not sure what that is about... but watching the game last night I saw the same thing in the twins. They brought nothing. Next game they are likely to score 50...

It is hard to slam these guys when looking at our overall record... so I'm chalking this one up to the inner city letdown experience I've previously experienced... and I hope we don't have one of these in March!

My preference was for us not to be ranked #1... but I didn't want our #1 seed position at risk!

KSU does deserve credit. They came ready to play! As the game wore on I was hoping they would blow us out... we more than deserved it and will hopefully learn something from this. The real disaster would have been if we came back and won it by 2... after playing so bad to be rewarded with a win.

The big lesson is: we are just another team out there. Nothing special... nothing special unless we bring game, every game. Last night, believe me, we were nothing special!

This is the essence of sports in general. Throw out the ratings and reputations... every game is played because anything can happen, and does. If you don't bring game, you will get your rear end kicked and walk away with nothing.

However, like Bugs Moran, we survived to fight another day...

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Julie Craig 3 years, 2 months ago

Kudos to the KU tutoring program for keeping these guys academically elegible. . . Just sayin....

EMAW

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gagibor 3 years, 2 months ago

I agree that the hawks struggled last night and they do have a lot to learn!! However, noone is complaining when the twins are carrying this team on their back most nights.. This is probably the best thing that could happen in the big picture as long as they can learn from the loss.... How about getting on Mario Little for playing selfish basketball.. Incredibly selfish player!!!! This team is for real and like all teams has to continue to grow and learn... As perfect as you all are, I am pretty sure most of you have had a bad day on the job.... Have a little faith in the Jayhawks!!!

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jayhawkfan96 3 years, 2 months ago

I agree with BrockIII. 'Kieff's foul was based on reputation. Not what was done. He put his forearm into the big's chest just as Pullen tried to come through. The timing made it look worse than it really was. I didn't see EJ's technical as I had turned the game off in disgust. So I can't comment on it. It was one game. We have been playing great since the Texas game. So I'm not too concerned. If you remember K-State handled us pretty easily in 2008. The game wasn't as close as the score was. That year ended pretty good. Not that I'm saying this is that team. It clearly isn't. But give me a break. This is one of the reasons that I hate call-in radio shows. All these "experts" that some fans seem to think they are, over-reacting to one game. Both good and bad. We are 24-2. We will still be in the top 5 most likely.

And for all you expert statisticians who keep claiming the Morris twins constantly "jack up threes." When do 1.6 and 2.1 attempts per game constitute jacking up threes all the time. Especially when their averages (40% and 34%) are on par with most 2 guards.

My biggest question mark with this team is Selby. I'm starting to wonder if he might not be more concerned with his NBA prospects instead of the team.

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jayhawkinnebr 3 years, 2 months ago

Well, gang I have said from the start of the year, KU was overrated and not a top 15 team, its to bad that a Kansas ST. massacre like this happened. I blame Self and Morningstar for their love-affair that has completely distroyed this team. Morris boys, an embarrassment to Ku basketball for their actions in the past few games. I like KU basketball gang but, I have to be truthfull when I see this team being coached so poorly and not seeing the correct players being on the floor too get a chemistry going. Pullen, 4 year senior-38 points and stops shooting to kept the score down, Morningstar 5th year senior 6 points, what, what is Self thinking? I have been saying that this team is not being put together like it should. Selby, a complete washout. Kansas shouldn't even be rated in the top 15. That's the way to go Kansas ST. and great coach, Frank Martin. Kansas ST. class act. If Self keeps going the way he is now, KU out in the first round of the tourney.

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Robert Brock 3 years, 2 months ago

College basketball is about skill; that is what Tyshawn Taylor lacks (as well as the element of leadership which is an absolute in the job discription of "point guard").

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kushaw 3 years, 2 months ago

2) If you take away all the bickering, attitude, and feeling sorry for you type of mentality from last night's game, Self has a major issue he has to deal with. K-State displayed last night how you beat KU. It's been done before so many times by mid-majors, but K-State showed how you beat KU with athletes and they did it to perfection last night.

Did anybody notice when KU got within 5 that Martin called a timeout early in the second half? After that timeout, how many times did K-State go below 8 seconds on the shot-clock? A LOT! KU's defense was not doing anything to harass Pullen or K-State's guards and K-State ran their offense and didn't settle for their shots. They consistently ran down the shot clock, controlled tempo, and dictated the entire second half. That's what Mid-Majors have done in the past and that is exactly what K-State did last night.

I know it's easier said then done and I also know Self was trying to send some messages last night to certain players, but I am curious how KU is going to handle this crutch that seems to happen at least one game every NCAA tournament. It's definitely a concern.

3) I think a lot of this game had to do with passion and heart and there just wasn't much of it last night from most of the team. The Twins baffle me at times and I'm glad Self sat Kieff down after that 3 point attempt. That was just a terrible shot by Kieff. I hate that shot and unfortunately he's being do it all year when KU has had leads. EJ's dunk was nice, but it was totally negated for the lack of mental focus afterwards.

Conclusion: Like I said, just some minor observations because in the end this game was more about than what was displayed on the court last night. The team is definitely fighting through some adversity at the moment within one another, and Self has a teeter totter affect he has to carefully maintain going forward. It will be interesting to see what happens.

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Carolyn Hunzicker 3 years, 2 months ago

Mrs. Morris....It's time you teach your children just how to act....If this continues, you failed..That's it ! The boys are good and big, that's all..Do not play team basketball, Cannot guard players shorter than they are, don't hussel, Have no ideal, how to make adjustments, espically when it comes to free-throws, imature ..JUST NEED TO GROW UP THERE WAY TO FULL OF THEMSELVES...

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kushaw 3 years, 2 months ago

Everyone okay? Everyone with me? Take one second and take a deep breathe............breathe in...................now exhale.

Wow! I can barely get on this site this morning with so much traffic. The site seems like it's trying to crash because it takes so long to load. What a performance last night, huh?

Here are some minor observations:

1) I know there are people out there that won't believe me, but I definitely think you can learn a lot from a loss. I know for a fact Doug Gottlieb disagrees with me, but then again I also know his Okie State squad that lost to KU back in the day also got better when they did lose to KU.

Thesychophant poster above brings up a good point and shows a great quote. I was going to comment on this because I think this was the biggest obstacle last night. It was obvious that a lot of players on KU last night were barking at one another. I don't condone it and irritates the living dickens out of me, but every good team goes through it.

Becoming a "Championship" team comes in cycles and for this 2010-2011 team we are seeing it first hand more so than other teams in the past. Teams do crazy things when faced with adversity. I mean, look at the first adversity with T-Rob and after the Texas loss. Team responded very well. Look what has happened in the second adversity since T-Rob when out with his knee injury?

I will say this about sychophant's quote and the observations with players griping at each other............T-Rob is the heart and soul of this team and the sooner he gets back on the court the better this team will perform.

Finally, at least in regards to this topic, losing creates a change in behavior whether it's good or bad, but I can't help but think with the adversity and as much time as this team has spent with one another good and bad that they definitely learned something for the better and will learn a lot more when they watch the film today. Self will address it. Folks, this is the beauty of the college game with college kids. This is where the psychology of the game kicks into 5th gear.

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No_phog 3 years, 2 months ago

it's a pity how these so-called fans are attacking these fine student atheletes.

Must be Tea Party patriots.

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DocBean 3 years, 2 months ago

Am I the only one that thinks Markieff is to blame and not Marcus for the intentional foul? Why is Marcus taking the blame?

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bennybob 3 years, 2 months ago

I think its time we all brace ourselves for another early round exit in the tourney. We're halfway through february, this is the time of year when you know what teams are made of. what do we know about this team:

Josh Selby was vastly overrated, should not have even been in the conversation for #1 recruit.

The morris twins are still the same thugs from philly that thought it was a good idea to shoot a bebe gun out the window of jayhawker towers. sure there jump shooting has improved over the last 3 years, there attitudes haven't.

tyshawn taylor does not have the intellectual capacity to ever be a competant point guard. hes a great athlete, but dumb as a rock.

Brady and Tyrel play harder then anyone else on the court, but intensity can only make up for lack of athleticism so much.

these traits are not the traits of a national champion. i lol'd every time iheard people compare this team to '08.

Robinson > Taylor Chalmers > Selby Rush > Reed Arthur = Marcus Darnell > Markieff

Sasha = Trob Collins > Morningstar

'08 squad would blow this years team out by 15+

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shinguard 3 years, 2 months ago

What really concerns me about the twin's attitude is, if left unchecked/uncontrolled, will only escalate. I really hope we do win the NC. But, the laws of probability state that we have a better chance of loosing at some point in the tournament (like all other teams). All teams have their fair share of adversity during their tournament run which they must overcome. They don't overcome it by complaining to the refs, yelling at teammates and throwing elbows. Right now, I can see that if we get beat in the NCAAs it will be in the flurry of technicals, elbows, trash-talking and general behavior that is embarrassing to KU.... and that, Marcus/Markief, will be your legacy at KU.

Get your act together guys. We need you.

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kuproud96 3 years, 2 months ago

Maybe the twins will finally stop running their mouths and jacking up threes when they can't make a free throw. Maybe coach will finally take control and address these glaring problems like a head coach should.

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lincase 3 years, 2 months ago

Wasn't it last year that Texas was briefly ranked number 1, played K-Sate shortly thereafter, lost, and then fell apart for the rest of the season? Correct me if I am wrong, but (like the twins) I can't be expected to bring my A game every time, and I won't take the trouble to look it up. Watching the debacle last night made me draw some parallels that I found disquieting.

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Aligned 3 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, we played bad. But I’m not sure that any team in the country could’ve come out of Manhattan with a win last night. KSU was just too good. On any given night in conference play there are upsets; it happens every year. But what is just as predictable are the know-nothing fans and writers who pile on and are critical of everything in the program. Trust me, KU will be fine.

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SDSurferFan 3 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, ridiculous these kids showed emotion and some immaturity while getting blown out by a team they smashed earlier. I laugh how KU posters/fans have an entitled attitude.

There would be a lot more heat on them if they accepted defeat with a ho-hum attitude.

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BrockIII 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't condone the Morris twins' foul plays and reckless attitude this season. Though it may or may not have been provoked, what took place at Cal was disgusting and shameful and as an alum, I was thoroughly embarrassed. However, if you watch the replay of the intentional foul called on Markeiff last night, it was bad timing and what may have been a bad call.

Keiff's man came over to set a pick, Keiff put up an arm bar to body up, and for whatever reason, Pullen decided to barrel through the middle of two giant bodies instead of around them and his face connected with Keiff's elbow and the chest of the K-State player it was moving into. It happened in the split of a second and with the Morris reputation, it was an easy call apparently. The Morris twins have to know better and not to put themselves in a situation like that. It looked dirty the first time I saw it, but when I watch the replay, I see what appears to be an unfortunate physical play.

This season hinges on things more complex than the occasional lack of poise by the Morris twins. This is a good team, but it has weaknesses all over the roster and the same question marks that we had going into the season. Is there anyone on the perimeter that can consistently create their own shot? (Selby seemed to be the answer, but he has not been able to build the chemistry yet.) Can the perimeter players defend slashers and limit open outside looks? With the absense of Cole, can the Morris twins and Robinson stop big, athletic, physical players in the post? Etc., etc., etc.

We scrutinize this team after a loss, and rightfully so. It's good for KU to be challenged, but it's heartbreaking when the result is like what we witnessed last night. There is something to be gained from a loss like that, and hopefully this is a wake-up call.

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Steve Brown 3 years, 2 months ago

Selby comes back, TRob is out and we get smashed, just sayin'

Maybe Josh on the health bench in some odd way helped TTaylor play free and easy and not so head tight....it is for better minds than mine to sort out the dynamic.

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Steve Brown 3 years, 2 months ago

It wasn't at all clear to me that Markieff intentionally elbowed Pullen in the face. I think Markieff's reputation caught up with him with that call" Atlanta Jay. I think you are correct, I watched the tape repeatedly, not sure MMorris was arming Pullen more of a london bridge on their big and pullen ran under the drawbridge. Like HCBS says, our bigs are marked men, they brought on themselves. Coach asked the ref when he told him about the call " are you sure?" then coach nodded, as in okay. I seriously don't think this strong arm was similar to the last two infamous ones. not that it matters, unless one Twin gets tossed in the big dance. Hats off the State and Pullen, no more NIT talk now...

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REHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

After the opening three minutes of the first half, I thought to myself, TT is absolutely smothering any opportunities for the Jayawks to develop a rhythm and team flow. If he could just bring the ball upcourt, pass to Tyrel or Brady, then step back over the centercourt line to allow teammates to play 4 on 5, we might get something going.

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Clarence Haynes 3 years, 2 months ago

How fast all of you including the writer pannick and jump off of the bandwagon! Folks we have not become a team on the bubble! I personally do not think that Kief's foul was flagrant! It was just a hard foul. He was only fending off the defender such that he could move for a lob pass for an inside shot. Because the Morris' have made themselves targets of the refs, Kief istead gets a flagrant foul and that is unfortunate. Finally, TT, the Morris' et al, have to check their friggin EGOS! Their heads were so big this weekend and Monday, that I could feel their swell heads here back east! This is what really caused the lost as their EGOS led to no focus which led to errant passes, shots that were put up only for the the cause to put one up, and pseudo defense. Check your EGOS and get back to being the exceptional team that you have been for the most part this year!

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Chad Sandwell 3 years, 2 months ago

I got to admit, this morning I am embarrassed to be a Jayhawk fan. But not for the reason so many others have mentioned, but by the way you, the posters, have reacted to the results of this game. Hey, I am just as upset as the rest of you that we got run out of Mahatten, but for better or worse, this is our team, and for all it's faults is a pretty good one. Here are some objective observations: 1. Morris Twins have to play bigger and under control mentally 2. That being said, the refs were terrible last night. (not a flagrant on Kieff and so many touch fouls called against us.)-but not the reason we lost but certainly affected game flow. 3. Guard play from ALL guards has to be better. 4. For those bagging on Coach Self, some nights all the coaching in the world won't help, last night was one of those nights when the message wasn't getting through. In the grand scheme of things, this is 1 loss, and in all my years as a Jayhawk fan, one thing I have never done is call my team bad or terrible or whatever derogatory adjectives people have thrown about. This type of game screams "players only meeting" on our day off, just like in 2008. We can all only hope the results are the same. But for all of you bagging on this team right now.......LIGHTEN UP.

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Joe Joseph 3 years, 2 months ago

On an average night, KU beats even an above average KSU team. It just so happens that KU had a far below average night and KSU had a far above average night.

2 +2 = 4

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Ron Franklin 3 years, 2 months ago

At least we can set our expectations now.

NO WAY will this team make it to the elite 8.

The Twins & TT are the only obstacles for this team.....and they've proven they cannot keep it together for 6 games. TT really outdid himself last night. I agree with Yates, there is something wrong with this team (on the inside)

Disgusting. I'm a KSU/KU grad and it's this time of the year that reminds/forces me sometimes to recognize where my heart strings really are tied. I'm just glad I ended up watching the game alone & not with fellow KSU grads.

Congrats to KSU, Pullen, & Martin, I guess. They really needed this one.

If you ask me, I think the Twins are seeing $$ signs already.....

The answer to this question escapes me, and did against UNI also....why couldn't Self get this guys together & rallied? Was he outcoached? Did he callup Frank and give him his entire game plan? KU has KSU outmanned athletically/talent wise at every position except one...no reason they couldn't turn it around. How in the hell do you beat somebody by 20 one week and lose by 20 the next. Those back door cuts were open all night.

Embarrassing display for the entire program.

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RustyTee 3 years, 2 months ago

With the elbow controversy (real or perceived), following the Twins every place they go, does anybody think they will stay after this year? Don't think so and Selby will be bye bye too.

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Todd Simpson 3 years, 2 months ago

ok I normally keep quiet about refs since its not them comiting the fouls they just call them. Which brings me to my point of EJ's Ally oop. I imeadiately got up and started dropping F bombs towards the ref that called that. EJ showed a tremendous amount of passion and the ref was actually staring him down.....What was said by EJ??? LET'S GO NOW is what his lips read. Where on earth do you get a T from that. I've seen Thomas Robinson do that and get his team fired up. Now obviously Kansas lost and personally they should have lost. If any Kansas Fan should be upset at a player it would be Taylor. Taylor played like he didn't want to be out there as he was commiting turnover after turnover and what caught my eye was that after everyone of his turnovers in the 2nd half he literally stood there for 3-4 secs after he would push so hard then not handle the ball. Selby looked as if he was lost. I would also like agree that the Twins both need to just shut their mouths and play ball.

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REHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Tough position for a new athletic director to face. Jayhawk tradition too pristine for such an ugly display in front of a national audience. After this debacle, Coach Self and staff really must gain control.

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SDSurferFan 3 years, 2 months ago

'Pullen Not Pressed by KU: Wonders if KU is NIT Bound' by Matt Tait

-can we trade Selby/Taylor for Pullen? -Little tried to score 5pt baskets every time he touched it. -Reed is our best penetrator= sweet16 exit. -Ej...F the refs, let it go on sometimes ..sometimes it is okay not to blow the whistle. -Kst is penciled into my sweet 16...will do some damage. -Self- I thought he was going to sub in the team manager...comedy w/the subn'. -it's okay to only have 2 losses by midFeb -as Knight said, KU will be better from this. I hope.

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jbrownjib 3 years, 2 months ago

What is scary is that other (lesser) teams have come back from deficits against us but when we were down, we lost our composure.

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Keith Hummel 3 years, 2 months ago

It wasn't at all clear to me that Markieff intentionally elbowed Pullen in the face. I think Markieff's reputation caught up with him with that call.

What IS clear to me is the twins took the night off. That was inexcusable. How do they not know by now that every game in the Big XII is a potential barn burner, and you can't take a night off? How do they not know that this game was the Superbowl for K-State? We got out-hustled, out-thought, and simply outplayed.

But maybe worse than all that was the attitude, not just by the twins, but by almost everyone except Reed. I don't remember the last time I saw a Jayhawk team sniping at one another like that. The Morris twins were yelling at the guards for making bad passes. The guards were yelling at the bigs for not hustling. The twins were back-talking the coach when he criticized them. Everyone was blaming someone else on the team for what was happening. It was very un-Kansas-like.

But maybe even more disturbing than that is the way they were hanging their heads (except for Reed) from about the 3 minute mark on. Like Coach Knight said, their body language was horrible. Over the past month everyone talked about how well this team handled adversity. Maybe so, but they evidently can only handle off-court adversity.

The adversity they faced in Manhattan last night tore the character right out of this team. If they don't get that "character" back soon, and start acting like a "band of brother's again", they won't have a chance in the tournament.

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FairgroveJayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Completely agree with the entire story except calling EJ out alone with such vigor, the twins should have been in that mix.

I can't believe Martin has any players left after watching him treat his players like he did last night. Although his coaching style was able to put together a win last night, I'd say his days are limited.

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GabrielMichael 3 years, 2 months ago

The Morris twins could learn a lesson from their younger understudy Thomas Robinson... talk about grace under pressure. Aside from the self control he has shown with off the court adversity the guy took an elbow to the face while fighting for the ball on the ground earlier this year and walked away without incident. The Morris twins need to become men if the Hawks hope to have any success in the tourney this year.

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jayhawkinATL 3 years, 2 months ago

The recurring problems with the Morris twins will be the death of us...just watch!!!!! Apparently, Coach Self was fooled into thinking the issues with the twins have been resolved. Just plain punks at this point!!!!!

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kerbyd 3 years, 2 months ago

I think we need to remember that the team that spanked us last night has played just as poorly as we did. Maybe this team thinks that because it has been through such adversity of late, and it definitely has been through some, it gets a free pass. Yes, it was a pretty pathetic game but it was just one game.

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Michael Maris 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm tired of the Thuggish attitudes that the Morris Twins bring to games. By rights, they should have to sit for a couple of games (I believe that the Big XII Officials need to eject them for their thuggish behavior). Morris Twins, you are NOT playing backyard ball in State of Jersey anymore. Marcus, you stated after losing to Northern Iowa in March of 2010 that that would not happen again. You stated that you would be a leader. Well, you display of leadership qualities is still lacking much to be desired.

3 K-State Players had career nights (basically). Yet, the 3 Juniors seem to display the attitude of I'm going to beat the S**T out of you (if I/we can't beat you on the court).

Now, it appears that Elijah Johnson is picking up on the same attitude. Sherron Collins and Cole Aldrich were prime Good Sportsman. One thing that Ole Roy did (when players weren't playing up to standards), was pull them off of the court and allow them to watch the bench players for about 5 to 10 minutes to get rid of their selfishness attitudes.

Tyshawn, Marcus, Markieff, it is PRIME Time to get RID of your Selfish Attitudes and become Team Players.

Tyshawn, learn to use the damn backboard (when your driving into the damn lane to break down the defense). You'll find that square on the backboard is there for a reason. It's isn't there for a Picture Frame (of your KU Career).

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86finalfour 3 years, 2 months ago

I've never seen a self team with such bad defense. A loss on the road with a rival is understandable but they got blown away!

Allowing 84 points to a bad offensive team is what's alarming. As a KU fan, I don't expect them to win every game but I have a hard time seeing them win even 4 games in the tourney with Taylor at the Point Guard.

Really hope I'm wrong -- RCJH!

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Number_1_Grandma 3 years, 2 months ago

You have to blame the coach for the Morris twins actions! Who's the one who can stop it, coach Self by sitting their butts on the bench. Let them come off the bench to earn back their minutes. Also, coach Self HAS to see that enough time is spent (and turnovers) by Tyshawn Taylor to see he has to be replaced at the point by Selby. Unless Self wants another one and done trip to NCAA tournament and get beat by a nobody, he better change up the starting lineup. When T-Rob is healthy, he should start the rest of the season with Selby at point. Otherwise, the season is all over but the cryin'. Now we'll see what kind of coach Bill Self is. If he does nothing about the intentional fouls, the flagrant fouls, and all around stupid play from the Morris twins, then is just a recruiter who coaches scared. Scared to hurt some hot shot kids feelings that might sulk or transfer. Wake up coach because the Morris twins aint taking you nowhere close to a national title with their street ball; thug type mentality. They couldn't even get you a big twelve title with this kind of play! Now show us all you are the coach we all said you were.....

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Jacobpaul81 3 years, 2 months ago

It's always nice when a 50 year old man with zero experience blasts a team of 20 year old boys rather than just report the news. It makes all the blasting he gets for his opinionated, off-the-cuff, moronic and seemingly drunk sounding journalism seem, well, justified.

Shut up Tom.

You're not Bobby Knight.

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walter_sobchak 3 years, 2 months ago

How essentially meaningless any single win or loss is in the regular season for college hoops' national contenders. Just win six straight in late March/early April. Boom roasted.

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Alan Mills 3 years, 2 months ago

Where are all the Keegan haters? Where are the feel-good posters? Still trying to wrap their heads around that game? Listen to Coach Self's post game comments. He hit it on the head. "A beat down." The Jayhawks looked as bad as any KU team I can remember last night. Very little character displayed last night. Many of the same flaws we've seen all year against teams far less talented that K-State. Ego. Inability to hit the outside shot. Free throw woes. Inability to stop guards, deep or on the drive. Silly, costly turnovers. What made last night most difficult to swallow was that it came on the heels of some of the best basketball this team has played. Maybe there is a silver lining? Perhaps it is good to lay an egg like this now, instead of in March? I, for one, will be very interested to see how this team responds down the stretch. After last night, I'm not sure what to expect.

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yates33333 3 years, 2 months ago

There is something dreadfully wrong at the core of this team that the press doesn't know about and that Bill Self isn't telling about. The problem must be deeper than physical injuries. Character and relationships are difficult matters to fathom.

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Bob Forer 3 years, 2 months ago

My message to K-State:

Bobby Knight had it right in his post-game analysis. We came into the game full of ourselves. I thought we learned an unforgettable lesson after being Forakhmaneshed in last year's tourney. No such luck. This time, we got Pullenized but good. And don't get me wrong, its wasn't just Pullen; your entire squad came together and played like a team. We, on the other hand, played like a bunch of petulant , obnoxious children.

Yes, we played poorly. But it would be intellectually dishonest to blame it on the absence of TRob and Selby's lame foot. We're deep enough and talented enough to play though such adversity. Your Wildcat team made us play poorly. You beat us at every facet of the game--rebounding, turnovers, shooting, defense, hustle, mental focus, etc. etc.

You guys really wanted this game, but that's easier said than done, considering your heartbreak loss to Colorado just two days ago. It takes guts and drive and heart to play like you did after the ups and downs of a once promising season.

Just remember. Enjoy a few sips of the Kool-Aid, but stay sober. If you can whup a very good Kansas team, there's no reason you can't end your season with a string of victories.

The Big XII could use another Kansas team in the tourney.

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fansincewilt 3 years, 2 months ago

I agree. Last night was embarrassing. This team needs poise. Our seniors, Tyrel and Brady are excellent. They play with intensity and poise. I wish they could step up and lead this team. They need to stay on the Morris' twins backs for their stupidity. Tyshawn is still up and down. And I agree, what was Johnson doing trash talking when you are down 20? Selby also has a nice demeanor even though he is young. I say start Robinson, Selby, Morningstar, Reed and probably Marcus. The twins have so much potential but they are ruining their college career. At the very least Mk should be benched and Robinson starts just as soon as he gets back. They will face just as much adversity when they get on the floor with one of the Big East teams or whoever they face in the sweet sixteen. At this point, I am expecting the same results as last night. They had better get themselves re focused and their mouths under control or this tourney run will be cut short again. Refs don't seem to appreciate our style of play. They weren't out to get us last night. They just didn't want someone to intentionally getting their teeth knocked out. Come on guys, this is not the Jayhawk way.

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Ashwin Rao 3 years, 2 months ago

We are very immature. Simple! The team can play the best Basketball in NCAA, and the the following week we get big in our heads and leave a stinker. These are not coachable things. The 18 year olds have to grow up and remember that if they want their next stop to be NBA, they better get their acts together. Only Reed is someone you can count on, at this point.

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KEITHMILES05 3 years, 2 months ago

It's time for Mother Morris to have a talk with her sons. Enough is enough! Grow up guys and act like mature men and not boys.

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jayhawker_97 3 years, 2 months ago

"Somebody please help me understand that line of thinking. On exactly what planet does that make even a shred of sense? Neptune? Jupiter? Mars? Where?"

simple, don't go too far, Mr. Keegan. that happens on our beloved planet Earth. lots of explanation if you have played bball in the past or play now. EJ got so pumped up that he wanted to get under Henriquez thin skin. intimidation. this action could actually spark a better-than-solo performance of EJ's if he was clear to play on. he just got his confidence built by that thunderous slam. but, too bad, he didn't know that this action is considered unsportsmanship. that happens a_lot in ncaa, nba, why did you pick on him? enough already with the complaints on the Twins!! geez..........

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actorman 3 years, 2 months ago

Couldn't have said it better myself -- especially the last paragraph. This team can look so beautiful at times, and then they can do so many things that make you scratch your head and wonder. I was watching alone and yet felt the need at one point to yell out, "Grow the f*** up!" at the KU team.

This was obviously one of those games where nothing went right, yet they showed the full complement of things that could cost them in the tournament: passes that made no sense, immature and idiotic behavior, and poor free throw shooting when there was even the slightest chance to come back. I'd like to believe that this game was a fluke, but there is definitely cause for concern.

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knightmare34 3 years, 2 months ago

Losing is bad enough, but I'm really upset by the lack of composure tonight and throughout the season. This is not Kansas basketball. The actions that lead to technical fouls and ejections have to stop NOW. They are embarrassing for the program and disrespectful to those who have worn Kansas jerseys in the past - those who have won (and lost) with class.

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Janet Scott 3 years, 2 months ago

A frick'n disgrace on national TV. In every aspect. Yep, the Morris twins played on a No. 1 team with a chip on their shoulder, just like they said they wanted to do. And they stunk up the place to high heaven. This team won't make it past the second round in the NCAA tourney. Over rated, and so full of itself they don't know how utterly inept and incompetent they looked on the national tube. An all 'round frick'n embarrassment: for the lack of fire, the classless attitude, and the overall lack of proficiency and smart play. I'm sure Self will kick butt, and he should...in the same manner Pullen and the Mildcats kicked KU's butts.

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Hank Cross 3 years, 2 months ago

An absolutely boorish, classless, listless performance. It had something for every detractor. The twins acting stupidly. TT with senseless TOs. Brady contributing nothing on offense in terms of his minutes. Travis not making shots and missing free throws. Selby going MIA.

But, it was good that they finally played a B12 other than UT that didn't immediately grab their ankles for KU. Now they know that a team with some talent and a lot of intensity can kick their teeth in if they don't bring their A game.

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