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Thursday, February 10, 2011

Bill Self says incidents with Morris twins’ temper have been ‘addressed’

Kansas forward Marcus Morris, left, congratulates his brother Markieff after Markieff scored and was fouled during the second half against Nebraska on Saturday, Feb. 5, 2011 at the Devaney Center in Lincoln, Neb.

Kansas forward Marcus Morris, left, congratulates his brother Markieff after Markieff scored and was fouled during the second half against Nebraska on Saturday, Feb. 5, 2011 at the Devaney Center in Lincoln, Neb.

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A caller to Bill Self’s Hawk Talk radio show Wednesday night wanted to know if he should be concerned about the Morris twins occasionally losing their temper(s) on the basketball court.

“I will tell you this: I don’t think you should lose any sleep over it. I think there are some other parties that potentially could lose some sleep over it,” Self, Kansas University’s eighth-year coach, cracked.

“We’ve done a lot of stuff with the twins in so many ways. They’ve matured. There’s a lot of ways they can mature more. I am not at all pleased at some of the things that’s transpired. (But) some that’s transpired sometimes appears worse than what it is. A lot of times we bring it on ourselves because of some previous actions where you’ve kind of developed a reputation.

“I am concerned. It has been addressed,” Self added of Markieff Morris being whistled for a flagrant foul in Monday’s Missouri game, two days after Marcus Morris was called for a technical at Nebraska.

Marcus was ejected from the Cal game on Dec. 22 for a flagrant foul, while Markieff also had a ‘T’ against UMKC.

“We had a long team meeting today,” Self said. “Believe it or not, you (talk show caller) could have probably conducted it because that was one of the topics we discussed in conjunction with a lot of other things.”

Self keeps any possible discipline private. He has been known to put players on the treadmill for transgressions in the past.

“I’m believing that stuff is behind us, and certainly if they care about their teammates and care about fans and care about KU and all those things, then it should be behind us,” Self said. “I know sometimes emotions get the best of a lot of us, including me, in the heat of the moment. But those are things we can’t allow to happen because it jeopardizes what we are all trying to do.”

Self has been thrilled with the progress and maturation of the twins, who are KU’s top two scorers and top two rebounders.

Marcus Morris averages 16.9 points to Markieff’s 13.2. Markieff has grabbed 8.4 boards per game to Marcus’ 6.8.

“They have matured so much, and they both care so much, and they both love their teammates so much that they have to eliminate a certain part that doesn’t have any place in the game, and they’ll see their performance level go even higher,” Self said. “I believe they’ll do it because I know how much they care.”

Comments

kcglowboy 6 years, 10 months ago

Glad that question came up tonight, and happy with the way Coach addressed it. To this appreciative KU fan, this season has been another wonderful joy ride, and the last few weeks have been thrilling (with the exception, of course, being T-Rob's tragedies). About the only on-court blemish of late has been seeing our two star players continuing to get T'd up and jawing with officials. Guys, we love you, we really do. But gosh darnit, cut it out!

Rock Chalk!

rgh 6 years, 10 months ago

Amen,

The T's and the complaining are getting old. Just shut up and hand the ball to the official already.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Our bench has been absolutely fantastic, but, clearly, Morris squared is the heart of this team. I really do hope they've put this behind them, because at this point the season could rest on it.

I absolutely love the energy and competitive nature that these two carry with them, and with that anyone will have times when he or she can go a little too far in the realm of competition. Anyone who has ever played competitive sports at a high to semi-high level understands this. However, you have to be able to overcome that to achieve true greatness. That is none the clearer than in the game of college basketball where one mistake can cost you a game and one game means the end of your season.

Don't lose that competitive edge, boys, but keep your head on. We need it. You are the heart and soul of Jayhawk basketball 2011.

Rock Chalk.

fansincewilt 6 years, 10 months ago

The Morris twins are the best thing in college basketball in the nation. Both are really good but when you put them together on the floor, they are virtually unstoppable. There is only one thing that can stop the duo and that is the duo. Texas will fall in the tournament because no team has an answer for the two of them. With the players around them, I see no cap on this team. There is no reason not to be in that final game of the season. I really don't think the 08 team could take them. Now, with Brady shooting like he is, Little's contributions, Releford healthy,and Selby coming back, I see no turning back. Other teams know that there is only one possibility of stopping the duo and some will stoop to using that tactic. I hope their teammates can become more involved when they see this happening. Reed is a key. He has the smoothest temperament out there. His leadership on this team is very valuable. This is a really good team that could go down as one of the greatest. They just need to get their heads into the game and their eyes on the prize.

DocBean 6 years, 10 months ago

As much as I hate when people act like they're one player and not two separate guys, you do make a great point. When they're out there together they do play like they share the same mind. They both are REALLY good at passing out of double teams, and even better when passing to each other.

Alan Braun 6 years, 10 months ago

Correct me if I'm wrong but Kieff did NOT get a flagrant foul during the Missouri game. It was an intentional, not a flagrant. Had it been a flagrant foul he would have been ejected.

Ron Franklin 6 years, 10 months ago

you are right. It was eventually deemed an "intentiona" 2 shots/ball back. But that point is still the same. These guys have made a habit of commiting non-basketball play fouls.

But after hearing Self say this..I'm satisfied. I was glad Self mentioned that WE ALL make bad decisions in the heat of a moment. It's not just these guys.

Andy Hess 6 years, 10 months ago

can't throw a punch with an open hand. hit him with his forearm and maybe the palm of his hand, yes. but not punched.

not that it makes it any better.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

You are correct. However, he essentially punched the guy in the face with his forearm; he probably shouldn't have been ejected. He was lucky he wasn't.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

**Woops, I meant he probably SHOULD have been ejected.

Alan Braun 6 years, 10 months ago

I agree with all these comments. I saw the replay, Kieff was lucky he didn't get a flagrant foul. He certainly deserved one IMHO. My only point is that there is a factual error in the story. Not an uncommon occurrence with the LJW unfortunately.

Bob Thompson 6 years, 10 months ago

I think it's key that the other team mates look out for the twins. Teams will start trash talking them and trying to get into there head. It is up to KU's team mates to pick up on this, keep them calm, and watch their back. It is hard to play when you are working on keeping your emotions in check.

mojayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

You are right about the trash talk and other teams trying to get into their head. BUT, M&M's passion is what makes them so good. They ARE learning to keep it in check. Keep the passion, and laugh off those who try to get to you. Teammates can prop each other up between plays, but it's up to each individual to control their reactions moment by moment.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

"It is hard to play when you are working on keeping your emotions in check."

Well, they better learn to, otherwise NBA players will trash talk them straight into oblivion. Trash talking and trying to get into a guy's head is part of the game -- most especially at the next level -- and they will need to be able to play at maximum competitiveness with all the same passion while keeping their emotions in check and not crossing that line.

They are learning, and they will be able to do both.

Matt Bowers 6 years, 10 months ago

HCBS is right when he says the media makes it look worse than it really is. ESPN especially loves to show the nastiest angle of anything that happens on the floor with the Twins involved. The Twins play with passion and they play to protect the rest of the team-hard to fault them for that. With that said, since they have a reputation, officials will be keeping a closer eye on them. Either way, I love the Twins, love their game, and are glad it says KANSAS across their chest on game day.

Rock Chalk

klineisanazi 6 years, 10 months ago

Unfortunately, as Self said, if you develop a reputation, the media (and officials) will start to buy in. Just like the camera finds Frank Martin, they will find the Twins. It is the nature of the beast. The camera (usually) never blinks.

6 years, 10 months ago

I see the twins helping opposing players get to their feet in almost every game..wish ESPN would air that as well. I have also heard the twins being called thugs and it makes me wonder if that's because they are black inner city Philadelphia kids. I might be completely wrong..

John Brown 6 years, 10 months ago

A Texas A&M player got called for a foul and a technical foul in their game vs. Colorado last night. A one point lead suddenly became a 6 point deficit. Plus, I hope that Marcus doesn't want to live up to the Rashid Wallace image.

keith horinek 6 years, 10 months ago

I don't mind the "attitude" the twins have. Opponents will think twice before they go up against the twins, knowing the twins are hard nosed and won't take any guff from them. I think psycologically it works to KU's advantage. Back in the day, Roy Williams had a reputation of having "soft" teams. Being "aggressive" is kind of refreshing.

klineisanazi 6 years, 10 months ago

"Aggressive" does not equal "flagrant". The first is desirable, the latter is against the rules, and leads to free throws and possession of the ball by the other team. In other words, you can hurt your team by doing it. If this costs the Jayhawks in March, I suspect there will be a different reaction from many fans.

Sam Brockert 6 years, 10 months ago

The 08 championship team was "aggressive" . If someone fouled them hard or got up in their face, they didn't pull this immature crap. They went on 15-4 runs and put their opponent away. THAT is the difference between "aggressive" and immature.

MIZNIT 6 years, 10 months ago

The '08 team was great, but this team has more talent hands down. And the '08 team RARELY "put opponents away!"

Sam Brockert 6 years, 10 months ago

The point is, that they rarely did things to shoot themselves in the foot... They used stuff like that increase their energy on the court, not hit someone in the face that makes you mad, that is high school BS

MDHawk 6 years, 10 months ago

In 2007-2008, the team won by an average margin of 20.2 points. I would classify that as being good at putting teams away. I was also at the game when the 'hawks beat Tech by 58 points.

They definitely had their fair share of relatively close games, but they were typically followed up with blowouts. I would say this year's team has a different kind of talent, not necessarily that it is better. If you consider guard play, ball handling, and overall defense, this team has some improving to do before matching the 2008 squad. There are definitely flashes of brilliance, but you can tell there's more to be seen.

As far as pure talent, however...I don't disagree entirely, although it doesn't mean much unless it is developed. There's still a lot of untapped potential with these guys, I think. I'm excited to see what happens during the remainder of the schedule...we have sure looked good recently.

Martin Rosenblum 6 years, 10 months ago

I believe I am correct in this. Neither one has ever fouled out of a game. If I am correct, they obviosly can control their actions to the point of being exempt from being dis-allowed to play by the officials. If HCBS chooses to sit them and enact his own will, that's another story and one which is merely coaching. They are not worthy of bveing labeled chronicly combative or flagrant.

Ron Franklin 6 years, 10 months ago

Marcus was kicked out of the CAL game for his flagrant elbow & I think Kief has gotten 5pf called on him one time. But, 2 of those 5 were bogus calls.

Martin Rosenblum 6 years, 10 months ago

Duh, how could I not remember that! However, did he have any fouls prior to that ejection call? I'm just trying to establish the fact that they don't accumulate fouls and end up sitting because of that.

David Hodges 6 years, 10 months ago

Only two Jayhawks have fouled out this year... Markief and Jeff. I believe Marcus only had one foul prior to his ejection, to answer a later question.

Tim Bingaman 6 years, 10 months ago

I think we have to accept fouling out every once in a while. It is far superior if you have the deep bench that we have to not playing D, like we did at the end of the Texas game.

Self needs to get players out if he is worried about fouls or let them play smart defense. Kentucky, Missouri, etc can't do this because they don't have the bench we have.

I love the intensity of our players, MC & MK absolutely included. They have to stand their ground...

Michael Leiker 6 years, 10 months ago

Their lack of fouling out is more attributable to Self's game management than it is a reflection of the Twins' ability to play sound defense or stay in control of themselves. That and having a bunch of good guys able to back them up.

KGphoto 6 years, 10 months ago

And in other news: The earth is round.

Martin Rosenblum 6 years, 10 months ago

Actually, I heard that it is flat in the middle of Missouri until you get to Columbia, then you just fall off the edge and end up in a vast black hole!

100 6 years, 10 months ago

Sphere (ish, not completely a perfect, yet, much like all of us who have at least once in our lives thrown a fist, an elbow, a forearm or some other appendage against our better judgement).....

By the day, the earth on a microscopic scale, becomes "more" spherical by the sheer nature of the physics of rotation, erosion & maturity, outdueling & overcoming the physics of the fault lines & hot spots, that weaken ever so slowly as the years pass on this planet.....

Much like our twins, who are spherically & holistically realizing as they mature, a smile, on this spherical-ish earth, is more powerful than a forearm any day of the week.....

Rock Chalk Twins...

Danny Hernandez 6 years, 10 months ago

We'll never be considered soft like Roy's teams, that's for sure.... And I'm glad too.

klineisanazi 6 years, 10 months ago

This team is not physically soft, and that is a good thing. Just as long as they aren't emotionally or mentally soft. (And I am not referring to intelligence.) Emotion obviously fuels this team. The trick is to keep it going in a positive direction. When it does, they are as good as anybody.

REHawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Bill Self does such a masterful job, not only in dealing with his team, but in relating to the Jayhawk Nation. I imagine that the twins received the full measure of his concern in that long team meeting. His Hawk Tawk radio comments provide extra icing to that cake. Markieff and Marcus, listen up! Your fan following is very very proud of your development and tremendous contributions to Jayhawk Basketball. Make certain that everyone remains proud of you every minute of your lives on and off the court. Your winning ways and nationwide attention demands a sense of extra responsibility.

DocBean 6 years, 10 months ago

It's a message for the entire team, not just the twins. T.Rob has some Technicals too, and no one has forgotten about Taylor's fight from last year. These guys aren't choir boys, but no team of choir boys has ever won a national title.

In '09 Brady took Clemente out of his game by constantly picking at him and bumping him in Manhattan pushing Clemente to get a T – that won the game. Sometimes you have to play with an edge to get the job done.

The trick is not to go too far, and I think Self is making sure they ALL know that.

KU_FanSince75 6 years, 10 months ago

I am not too concerned over the Twins past situations with fouling, etc. Mainly because we have HCBS to take care of that. Self is right though---- the twins performance will elevate much higher if they don't engage in that trash talking/flagrant fouling crap. March Madness is right around the corner---Self knows what he needs out of the twins. Kieff, Marcus---you guys are good---don't need that trash talkin'. Rock Chalk!

brooksmd 6 years, 10 months ago

Just smile and do your trash talkin' with the ball. Works every time.

Tony Bandle 6 years, 10 months ago

Watching the Puke vs Tarhole game last night, all I could think of was how the Morrii and TRob would rip the front lines of either of these teams to shreds.......and these are the two best teams in the ACC?

PUULLEEEEZZEEEE!!!!!!

Guard penetration would be a issue, but I feel that there is no way we lose to these two pretenders!!

It would be awesome if, after beating them in the Tourney in Kansas City, somehow the rematch with Texas would be the tiebreaker for the NCAA Championship!!

Martin Rosenblum 6 years, 10 months ago

That would be great Oak. And it could happen! A lot depends on which region Texas is sent to vs. KU. I think Texas could end up no worse than a #2 seed. KU is certainly a lock for a #1 seed. We could end up playing them in a round in the Sweet 16.

John Randall 6 years, 10 months ago

If your speculation about seeding comes to pass, KU vs UT couldn't happen before the last week (Final Four) . A #1 vs #2 game can't happen until the Regional Finals (Elite Eight), and NCAA seeding rules don't allow two seeds that high from the same conference in the same Region. That's what seeding is supposed to accomplish –– keep elite teams away from each other until as late in the tourney as possible. It usually doesn't work out exactly as seeded (only once - in 2008 - did did all four top seeds win their Regional), and that is why we call them upsets when teams with double-digit seeding numbers make it to the second week.

In a perfectly-seeded tournament, the Sweet Sixteen would be #1-#4 and #2-#3 in every Region. That has never happened (many years, not in a single Region), probably never will. There will always be some Cinderella(s) crashing the party.

Marcia Parsons 6 years, 10 months ago

A lot of "bracketology" I've seen has both Kansas and Texas as #1 seeds in the South and Southeast. Sometimes Texas in San Antonio with Kansas in Anaheim, and sometimes the other way around.

KU_FanSince75 6 years, 10 months ago

+1 Oak. I was thinking the same thing. Great minds think alike!

Chris Shaw 6 years, 10 months ago

Oakville, I was thinking the same thing at least in terms of Duke. Duke is definitely "Soft" up front and their 3 point shooting bailed them out once again last night. As much as Duke preaches defense their first half transition and on ball defense was terrible. I mean, the Duke defenders were left standing still on multiple possessions. Duke I can agree with. I came away thinking that I would love a shot at Duke right now and for all the marbles come March/April. Just have to have some tenacity on Nolan Smith and make sure you have some great perimeter defense. I was getting irritated at all the pump fakes UNC was going for in the second half.

As for UNC, I am going to have to disagree up to a point. Yes, UNC's big's are "Soft", but they are long and alter shots. I mean, I defefinitely don't want to play a UNC team that played like they did in the first half last night. As much as I love the Twins they have struggled in the past against teams that are equally just as big and or are longer. The twins don't have much "Bounce" in their post game and teams like UNC who are extremely long concern me.

Yes, Baylor was very long and athletic as well, but I don't count Baylor because they try and play a match-up zone. Also, there were unfortunate circumstances in the Texas game, but the Twins didn't look great in the post. Once Marcus started stepping out a little bit and used his driving game, KU started to make a mini-comeback there late in the second half.

I guess my only point is that I still feel like there are still some uncertanities against a very decent, long, and quality frontline opponent. The twins have been playing great, but I still feel they have some stuff left to prove against a decent/quality opponent's frontline. Would love a shot at Texas again. Would like to play Pittsburgh, Would like to play UNC because they are getting better and better everyday. Would like to play against Syracuse's frontline despite their zone qualities. Outside of Texas, I just don't feel there are any other quality frontlines in the Big 12.

hayjawk 6 years, 10 months ago

I know that so many Jayhawk fans hate puke, I mean Duke, but I really like Coach K and the quality of his players and his program. Why? Mostly because any enemy of Roy's tarholes (I really like that) is a friend of mine. I know all accounts were settled in '08 with Ol' Roy, but I still can't stand the smug attitude in basketball purgatory. Anyway, I hope we play both teams going down the stretch. We will make Barnes wish he had chosen better. And I would love to see how we match up with players like N. Smith and K. Singler, who, in my humble opinion, are both great players and have been fun to watch these past four years.

ObiWan 6 years, 10 months ago

I don't know the exact numbers, but I would guess the Morris twins are # 1 and #2 all-time in technical fouls at KU. I can't remember another player getting so many. I actually like their passion, I'm just concerned they'll get tossed from a big game.

celestep1 6 years, 10 months ago

As a mother of twin boys, I can tell you that physical retaliation is something that is second nature for twins. They have probably been engaging in it since their life in the womb. So it is a hard habit to kick. But Marcus and Markief seem to really take their roles as leaders very seriously and I have faith that they will get this under control. They have come a long way from their Freshman years when their skirmishes were much more frequent.

gchawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Thanks for posting this perspective and I agree with your comment concerning the twins taking on the leadership role, something we lacked, somewhat, last year. I also think that Tyrel is exhibiting leadership as well, so in essence, we have leadership by committee.

Mary Kay Scanlon 6 years, 10 months ago

I agree with you celestep1--Your perspective is so insightful! I am sure Angel Morris would agree! I agree I think they will get this under control and when tournament time comes around their toughness will be invaluable!

chaggs 6 years, 10 months ago

Someone please clue me in? What was the T for in the Nebraska game? I see McMo helping up the Nebraska player and in the next moments a double T? OK, team, just let them lay on the ground!

gchawk 6 years, 10 months ago

I think there were some words spoken that weren't acceptable. I was at the game and I can tell you that neither KU nor NU were very happy about the officiating, very inconsistent.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

I'm sure some magic words were used. It was, however, a quick and unnecessary double T. Ref was taking center stage at that point.

John Randall 6 years, 10 months ago

The double technical that early in the game was simply an announcement by the officiating crew that this game wasn't going to get out of hand.

And, if you remember, there was very little 'chippy' behavior the rest of the night.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

It wasn't "that early in the game." It occurred with 8 minutes left in the half. Yes, it was an attempt by the ref to "keep it under control," yet a T was totally unnecessary at that point. He could have easily issued a warning, and I'm sure the effect would have been the same. Instead he gave an unnecessary T to our leading scorer and POY candidate, giving him a personal foul as well, which could have effected the outcome when said technical was not the right call in that situation. It was the wrong move.

And he was posturing.

Sally Presson 6 years, 10 months ago

I have faith that Coach Self has it all under control and the Twins will do better, I don't like to see them get the intentionals either but I love their toughness under the basket, and it's a dog fight under the basket all the time and those boys certainly hold their own and let the other team know they are in command, as does Thomas!!! Love them all!!! Go HAWKS!!!

yates33333 6 years, 10 months ago

Before anyone forgets the twins aren't the only players who have flagrant fouls or technicals of another kind called against them. What really hurts is that the team suffers as much if not more than the individual from this kind of conduct, and that ain't fair!!! BTW, there aren't any angels playing big time college basketball. Sit close to the floor and watch the blood flow. BB has become a contact sport. Someone should design pads for it.

John Randall 6 years, 10 months ago

The three S's - Size, Speed, Strength.

What was incidental 20 or 30 years ago can be life-threatening in this day and age.

jrbill67 6 years, 10 months ago

Agreed. Morriss twins are best 1,2 combo in NCAA, but they're worthless if they're sitting on the bench because of stupid behavior or jawing at the other team or officials. Stay on the floor and show 'em up on the court, with assists, points, rebounds, and defense. That's the best revenge there is.

keith horinek 6 years, 10 months ago

As of this week, Joe Lunardi from ESPN has KU in the west bracket and UT in the SW bracket. They would not meet untill the final four. He has KU and Ohio St. on the same side of the bracket, which does not make sense to me. No. 1 and No. 2 teams on the same side of the bracket? They should meet in the finals, assuming both teams make it that far. Between OSU, KU, UT, Pittsburg, I feel that KU is playing the best BB right now.

RockCaCO3 6 years, 10 months ago

You know, that would be funny if it weren't true.

John Randall 6 years, 10 months ago

Top (#1) seeds are placed in Regions geographically - as close to home as they can be.

Final Four pairings for the semi-final round are rotated each year among the Regions, regardless of who wins a particular Regional. Sometimes this lets one team (Duke, '10) coast into the NC game.

Very often, the best game of the tourney is one of the semis. The year Arizona won their most recent NC, they had to beat a #1 seed each of their last three games. That year, the best game was the KU-AU Regional Final.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 10 months ago

The 2002 Semi's between KU/Maryland was virtually the National Championship. How did OU lose to Indiana that year? Indiana and Mike Davis! Good Grief!

Jack Wilson 6 years, 10 months ago

How close did we come to going back to back .. man.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 10 months ago

HEM: Kansas was down by 7 at half at 44-37 cut the gap to 52-50 and then Maryland went on a run and opened the game up at 83-63 with just over 6 minutes left in the game.

KU did comeback as I vividly remember and had a chance to cut the lead to 2 or 1, but KU missed a shot down 92-88 with a little over a minutes left in the game. KU had a shot, but started fouling and KU ended up losing by 9.

This was the game where I knew if KU was ever down big in the future than they had an opportunity of a comeback. Unfortunately, it happened the following year against Syracuse and that 20 point lead was too big to overcome. Grrrrrrrrr! Man, "What IF!"

Jack Wilson 6 years, 10 months ago

KU-AU was a sweet 16 game ... fyi. Fact police on patrol.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

HEM is correct, KU62, KU/Arizona was a sweet 16 game, as AZ was the #4 seed. Arizona did have to beat 3 number 1 seeds that year, but their regional final game was against 10th seeded Providence.

They then beat #1 UNC in the Final Four and #1 Kentucky in the Championship.

Funhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Twins are from the City of Brotherly Love, bringing the Philly Sound, Barry White and the Love Unlimited Orchestra, oh baby, oh baby, oh baby, bring your basketball over, baybee.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

You may not agree with this posters assessment (I personally feel it's a bit over the top), but nothing about it seems to suggest trolling.

Perhaps, someone who probably resides in Mayberry, craps rainbows and has no idea what physical competition is like, but not a troll.

tauck seems like a passionate fan. One who seems to me to be a bit misguided and with whom I don't agree, but to each his (or her) own.

None of KUSports.com posters wrote the rulebook on the correct way to be a fan. Although many seem to try....

tauck 6 years, 10 months ago

Biggest mistake Self made was putting the one Morris twin back in the game following the IDIOTIC technical foul he received vs MIZZERY. We are turning into an undisciplined street team and justifying it by saying that makes us mentally tough and passionate......Are you kidding me!!!! Like it or not Coach Self, but the University of Kansas basketball nation holds you and your players to a high high standard behavior wise. We hate the constant whining about fouls that is present in some of your players after every foul called, we cannot stand the technical fouls that are being dished out and collected on a regular basis now and may I remind you and your players that the University of Kansas expects winning but almost more than that we expect CLASS from our basketball program. We are passionate about this, just how passionate are we, well coach Self take a listen to the rafters at your next away game as the Jayhawk faithful ring it down at the end of the game with the eeeery chant of ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK...KU. That is just how passionate we are. Get your players under control and disciplined at all times and maybe the added discipline and focus will translate into made free throws. (Free throws are all about discipline and focus)

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

He's up there as one of the best I've ever seen. He's essentially the de facto KU diplomat. He's the voice of reason the media will turn to during tumultuous times (See: ticket scandal, Mangino-gate, Lew's resignation, the "Bubba" incident, hiring of the new AD), and he always stays level headed with seemingly the perfect thing to say. Even when his players are screwing up (i.e. Airsoft incident, Sherron-in-the-elevator-gate, BB-FB fight, Taylor's facebook mishaps, Mario Little's mess-up, Brady's DUI, etc, etc), he still stays so level headed and always seems to have the right practical approach to the situation.

The man has the personality to run for office, and with that Southern twist, he comes across as your buddy, and you feel like you not only believe everything he says but are in the conversation with him.

He is remarkably good at what he does. On many levels.

NJHAWK 6 years, 10 months ago

I am glad that Self has talked to the Twins and am sure that Twins will control their temper but I have a completetly different angle to this issue. What will Self do to control this kind of behavior during the game? How about yelling at the Refs to indicate that his "Bigs" are getting mauled under the basket? Why can't he be proactive rather than reactive? As a coach, he can control the tempo of the game and help his kids. Larry Brown was a master of such situations. I remember in one game, he received a technical within couple minutes of the start but for rest of the game, the calls were consistant (if not pro KU).

By the way, all this talk about Kief getting intentional foul and how bad the Twins are is hypocritical. Was it okay for Raef to throw elbow at Jason Sutherland? There is a great similarity in Kief's elbow throwing and Raef's reaction to Jason Sutherland's rowdy behavior. And, by the way, Raef threw elbows several times. Lately, referees are calling it very tight and based on reputation. I am not condoning Twin's behavior, they need to be passively agreesive but Self needs to work on the refs more and help avoid this kind of situation in the future.

Woody Cragg 6 years, 10 months ago

What is passively aggressive? Enlighten us please?

John Randall 6 years, 10 months ago

Passive-aggressive is behavior that gets you where it hurts but it doesn't show. Like hot coffee accidentally spilled in your crotch when you're wearing dark trousers.

Ty Mar 6 years, 10 months ago

Good job HCBS. I don't know if people understand how physical this game is. Let me get this right...He's soft if he just puts his head down and gets pushed around, He's a "thug" if he has a normal level of testosterone and gets upset for getting elbowed in the throat and gut. They addressed the issue and hopefully he(twins) can be just as aggressive without retaliation. He should just attack the rim and get the aggressor in fout trouble = ) (if he can avoid the charge).

John Randall 6 years, 10 months ago

Sure he can retaliate with the same cheap shots he receives –– on the playground, on the street, in the 'hood -- just not on the court. He only has to follow the rules if he wants to play.

Woody Cragg 6 years, 10 months ago

A very simple rule to remember, "keep your temper-nobody else wants it."

Kietzman's show was good yesterday, was about players in trouble & how coaches go to bat for them. Holthus was his guest & specifically talking about Curtis Kelly. But Mario's name came up, also the twins & BB gun incident. They made reference to Mario commiting aggrevated assault. That is assault with a weapon. Hell that's what the twins did with the BB gun! That's like a class C or D felony! Wasn't Mario simple assault? Anyway there is no room for that, period. Chances to redeem yourself, certainly. But some behavior patterns repeat themselves over & over and are definitely getting attention from more than just the refs. They'd be on my treadmill till I got tired.

Marcia Parsons 6 years, 10 months ago

I would think the fact that Keitzman had to go back two years to dig up the BB gun incident should raise more questions about Keitzman than Markeiff's long-ago behavior. And distorting the charges against Mario should be another indicator. Has he ever said anything good about the Jayhawks?

Woody Cragg 6 years, 10 months ago

Of course, many of his guests do as well. He is just a talker but does have knowledgable people on the show except during CFB season-Pinkel. Always turn it off then. KState may suck but misery swallows!

Jack Wilson 6 years, 10 months ago

Fact police: Remember, it wasn't the twins .. just Marcus. And Marcus' deal was not a standard BB gun .. it was an air-soft gun. Media kept calling it a BB gun. BBs are copper, metal and can penetrate skin, etc. Air-soft are plastic, only risk is an eye, really. Huge difference. A standard BB gun can kill someone, depending upon its power. Kids play air soft guns all the time (thought that's not the standard of what's ok as I'm sure a few of us have fond memories of "BB gun wars" or whatever when we were kids .. different level of safety). Marcus was charged with misdemeanor battery, not a felony.

Mario Little was charged with three misdemeanors .. the main count was just "battery" .. not aggravated.

Also, fyi, agg assault is usually when there is a weapoin, but does not necessarily have to be with a weapon.

Fact police, off patrol.

Jack Wilson 6 years, 10 months ago

globaljaybird -- are you surprised Keitman might fudge it a bit???

Woody Cragg 6 years, 10 months ago

Not at all surprised, but to those uninformed sounds good for listening. Cannot site the KSA statute but pretty certain agg assault in this state is "administered with external means or intent", ie; weapon, automobile, etc. Alot of jurisdictions are quick to grant diversions to those willing to pay the legal fees, but if prosecuted as such, is in fact a felony. Time in the big house with Big Bubba.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Policing the Fact Police: The airsoft incident was Kieff not Marcus.

Jack Wilson 6 years, 10 months ago

Fact police arrested on incompetence .. I'll shut my mouth now.

John Randall 6 years, 10 months ago

Let me get this straight ... your misconceptions and faulty definitions are fact ... mine are hysterical ranting.

Is that pretty close?

Steve Brown 6 years, 10 months ago

Crybaby Kevin, went on to say Martin should tie up the allegations with Kelly in the legal system so it unwinds after the season and that since all schools have weed issues, Kelly should get a pass. Mitch Holtus, tempured his irrationality. Then KK went off on HCBS saying he has no rules and no consquences with his players... Kevin face it NIT 7-9 NIT 7-9 and NO you aren't in no matter your loftly 32 RPI ranking. If you can't win 50% of your confernece games, you don't deserve to dance, unless you are big east. I hope Vitale picks you tops again next year...tool.

Woody Cragg 6 years, 10 months ago

It's without saying that most coaches care deeply for the kids they have in their programs and when they do encounter problems specifically off court they really step up & try to help. But this is a story that you don't hear of everyday. These are the things that make sports great to me. JMHO.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wake-forest-coach-donates-kidney-star-freshman-player/story?id=12878321

Chris Shaw 6 years, 10 months ago

Great story! I to love stories like this.

Alohahawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Different situation, but similar in nature: Didn't Ostertag donate a kidney to his brother a few years ago.?

hawksince51 6 years, 10 months ago

Actually his sister back in 2002. He still played several more seasons after that. His kidney was so big they had to put it in her at a 45 degree angle.

Dale Koch 6 years, 10 months ago

For something to get this much attention, mostly negative, it's a problem. Like it's been said many times on this board, show the opposition up with your play on the court not your talk.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 10 months ago

Can anybody remember or recall the last time Coach Self got "T'd" up? I mean, not a bench technical that is awarded to the coach, but an actual "T" where Self was steamed at the ref's. I'm having trouble remembering.

Marcia Parsons 6 years, 10 months ago

It has been quite a while, but it isn't because he doesn't do his share of chewing on the refs. I think we can attribute it to that "diplomatic" talent he has of getting his point across without going out of control.

tis4tim 6 years, 10 months ago

I know you probably meant this as a joke, but I'm glad we don't try to Hansbrough wins.

"By any means necessary" is okay as long as it comes with a side of dignity.

Michael Leiker 6 years, 10 months ago

It drives me as nuts as anyone else to watch these guys whine about fouls, swing at other players, etc, but I really feel like Self is just paying lip service to this topic. When it really comes down to it what he would have to do to actually adjust their behavior at this point would probably have a more adverse impact on the team than the actual behavior itself. Calculated risk, let 'em be who they are coach.

Woody Cragg 6 years, 10 months ago

Frank Martin is trying to adjust behavior and is getting a mutiny. Probably too big a hard a$$ also. These guys walk a real narrow road cause kids will just take their toys & go home. I hate the whining as well, takes alot of the entertainment out for me. When I want to see a fight I watch boxing or MMA or NHL. I'm not big on the Academy Awards either-acting when fouled. Just too old school I guess.

Michael Leiker 6 years, 10 months ago

Nice thing about KU fans is that we like basketball, pure and simple. We like it enough that we don't need any of the extra drama to keep us interested (that and teams that kick the living sh!t out of 95% of their opponents). That's what makes this fan base unique and special.

Tony Bandle 6 years, 10 months ago

1] The Morrrii are just getting ready for NCAA Extreme Muscle Ball. What they haven't understood yet is how to mask it. Just watch a tape of any Big East game...they are masters at it!!

2] Jason Sutherland from Misery was a Psycho Assassin who almost ended Jerrod Haase's season. He deserved to be decked. It was great to see Tyus Edney from UCLA blow by him for that last second layup that screwed Mizzou!!

3] Definition of passive aggressive - as much as you can get away with and not get caught!!

4] Kansas in the West Bracket is a done deal: a] Jayhawks are everywhere b] Jayhawks will travel anywhere c] Jayhawks will spend money to follow our team. Probable Schedule: Tulsa, Oklahoma / Anaheim, CA / Houston, TX

5] If you think Duke got a free pass last year, wait till you see this year's draw. CBS is drooling at the chance that Puke will get to defend it's title!!!! If they end up playing a ranked team prior to the final Four, someone on the selection committee made a typing error!!

Woody Cragg 6 years, 10 months ago

Great points Oak, specifically # 1 and especially # 2.

Scott Smetana 6 years, 10 months ago

I'm planning on going to Anaheim or San Antonio. I think if we beat Texas or if they lose 2 on their own, we get San Antonio.

Duke will definitely get New Orleans Big East will get the East Regional

I hope to see San Diego St. lose one more to avoid any chance of them getting a 1. They have played NO ONE. Don't say BYU, they are WAY overrated. Jimmer is slow and can easily be shut down by a top 10 team.

Steve Brown 6 years, 10 months ago

Texas gets San Antonio already a stacked deck. NCAA selection comittee dealing off the bottom. KSU= NIT 7-9.

Tony Bandle 6 years, 10 months ago

...scream like you've been kicked in the nuts!!

Chris Shaw 6 years, 10 months ago

I know a lot of people are talking about Texas and Kansas being #1 seeds, but the odds of that happening are very slim. However, should Texas go 16-0 and KU go 15-1 or Texas go 15-1 an KU go 14-2 it still could happen with good showings in the Big 12 tourney and a revenge win by KU.

The reason I'm saying it's very slim because I looked up the Duke/UNC regions and seeds since 1985. I only looked at a couple of components, but I was curious how many times they were #1 seeds together in the NCAA tournament. Surprisingly, I thought the number was more, but it's only 2 times since 1985. Here's what else I found.

-Duke and UNC have been #1 seeds 12 times a piece since 1985.

-Twice Duke and UNC have both been #1 seeds and UNC was in the East and Duke was in the South both times.

-11 out of the 12 times UNC has been a #1 seed they have done so in the "East" Region. The lone exception was in 2009 when they were the #1 seed in the South and Duke was the #2 in the East.

-7 Times UNC has been #1 in the East and Duke has been #2 in the South Region (Sometimes called the Southeast). I think this is the stat I was thinking of from above where I thought UNC and Duke had been #1 seeds on multiple occassions.

-Conversely, Duke has been in the South and East as #1 seeds half their time 6 vs 6. More times than not when Duke has fielded the best overall team in the ACC, UNC has struggled. On the other hand, when UNC is usually good, Duke is right on their heels. No pun intended there.

-I lost track because of one of the above stats, but next to Duke being a #1 seed for almost half the NCAA touranments since 1985 they have been a #2 seed like 8 or 9 times. It may be more or less, but I know it's more than 6 because I was keeping track of that stat from above with UNC and I saw them as #2 at least a couple more times. Pretty impressive.

hawksfan08 6 years, 10 months ago

To further illustrate your point you only need to go back to 2008 when both texas and kansas had great teams who were both probably better than their respective teams this year. Assuming that both ku and texas make the championship game of the big 12 tourney, that game will likely decide the 1 seed the big 12 gets. Unless as you pointed out both go undefeated until that game.

We simply aren't looked at as a deep, eat your own conference like the big east where you actually don't get dinged for any loss.

Funhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

A Kansan seldom makes the national news, although a couple of young ladies from KC , KS were on national tv last night for a two hour game show. At last count, it was estimated there are five million, seven hundred six thousand, two hundred and thirty-two elbows residing in the state of Kansas. Only four of those elbows are currently getting recognition. At present time, those four elbows are the most famous in the state.

Tony Bandle 6 years, 10 months ago

How about the eight elbows whose hands were deep into the KU Ticket Cookie Jar??...I'd say that they are right up there.

Makes it a dozen, cozen!

BewareOfThePhogOnTheWater 6 years, 10 months ago

Most of those elbows weren't actually from Kansas. Try Connecticut and Oklahoma instead.

mojayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Toughness, Toughness, Toughness!
THIS is what HCBS teaches, preaches, and coaches. There is a fine line between toughness and being out of control once in awhile. Coach manages it very well behind the scenes, and I would be willing to bet that Coach would rather have "Toughness" than to have to light the fire all of the time.

We've got a good balance between the cool and the tough. Let's keep playing ball!

DocBean 6 years, 10 months ago

Marcus has had one mistake, Markieff has had two. There are a lot of players that have had one or two Ts called on them this year. However, when one of them does something wrong, both of them take the blame. I don't think if either brother picks up a T, that people will blame him only. It will be, "there THEY go again." It's hard to think of them as individuals, but they are, and shouldn't always be blamed for each other's mistakes.

I'm not too worried about the Morris's. They sometimes show a little bit too much attitude, but it's that same tough attitude that wears off on the rest of the team, and makes this team one no one will want to play come tournament time. I've seen T.Rob show as much if not more attitude on the court as the Morris brothers. If this team plays with a swagger in March, then they will probably still be playing when April rolls around.

Joe Baker 6 years, 10 months ago

"Competitive nature, competitive spirit, physical, temper" - Which is it?

I agree whole heartedly the twins need to be "Self-controlled" on the court. They do need to learn how to channel their above features. I don't know what you call it, but I'd much rather they be the above than let other teams with the same above features take advantage.

We'll play with good attitudes, natures, spirits, sportsmanship, etc. I don't think it means letting a team get away with cheap fouls. If you get a bow or an arm, you give it back. Opponents will learn how much they can cheap shot from the officials and take full advantage. For example, you can't help a player off the court w/o getting a tech? Officials need to stop babysitting and stop making morality calls.

The officials are horrible. If they are showcasing the twins and making examples of them, the NCAA needs to address the bias player or individual discrimination that is taking place against the twins. If the twins foul, call it. But let's not forget, the other teams do it too. KU gets caught and the officials are blatantly watching the twins. I believe so much so, the other teams get away with far more fouls because the officials are so focused on the twins. I'm not blaming the refs for the twins' personal "temper" but let's face, bball is physical. Let's be fair and impartial in the game. Officials are to be fair and impartial, but as we've seen, the twins have really exposed many officials.

NJHAWK 6 years, 10 months ago

If what you are saying is correct then it is time for Self to point the real culprits from other teams to the officials and protect his own players.

Woody Cragg 6 years, 10 months ago

Agree with both. Officiating is awful. Just sit at floor level sometime & see how much they DON'T call. Also HCBS & staff should be the key to enforcement not the kids. They need to stand their ground but a tit for tat always gets the 2nd guy caught.

Joe Baker 6 years, 10 months ago

Don't get me wrong. Not all officials have this attitude. It started that one game a yr or two ago when Mk eyeballed a ref (prolly mouthed something) and he was T'd. I have no problem with the refs calling a game a certain way, but not at the expense of one or two.

I've seen some good officials. I've seen games where most have been fair and call it consistently. Heck, even refs have bad games, but just call it bad both ways to be consistent (or better is preferred).

I hate the thought that says refs gave a team something because they missed it the last time. That is such stupid thinking and officiating. If a ref misses, they miss it. Don't make up for it later. This is the reason why we have messed up officials. All the refs should see are numbers (21, 22), like Lady Justice (right?). I think the officials are out of control and the NCAA needs to address it once and for all. Let's get back to good ol' officiating 101, maybe? The replay monitor is questionable too. I think it is a abused and it bails the officials out too much.

kureader 6 years, 10 months ago

The twins are what ... 20? They're tough kids out of Phillie that won't fold under pressure. There's no one I trust more than Self to help his players with issues like these. You gotta know he's more composed when discussing this subject on the radio than he is when discussing it behind closed doors in the locker room. You can tell that the twins really care about KU and about their teammates. They also respect Self. Self says we shouldn't lose sleep over this, and I think he's right..

Woody Cragg 6 years, 10 months ago

Back in the day..Lovellette played with confidence and abilty, not Swag. If you took it to the rack you knew either you or the shot were going down. Same with the Dipper. No talk, just game. If you got the game that's all you need. If they need to constantly be self assured from those who watch, get a gig like Oprah. Or...pay the band when you get outta line. But...if it hurts your team-take a seat. We'll straighten that out in the days (long, extra long) practices to come. Sports is no diff than any other professional world endeavor. You must have the confidence to succeed but you don't need to wear your feelings on your sleeve. I guess it's just how your were taught, or not taught when a child. JMO

John Randall 6 years, 10 months ago

Big Clyde was as accomplished at cheap shots as any player in the country. Phog tried real hard to keep him from getting caught very often. Five years later, any 'negro' (especially a big one) would get called for breathing heavy in the direction of anyone on the court.

What we have now may not be "good" officiating - IYO or IMO - but it is no worse, likely better, than it's ever been. Same with player deportment. Most will keep doing what they do as long as they get away with it. Putting on a Kansas uniform is not a magic elixir that cures attitude problems –– that is why teams have coaches and coaches have treadmills.

Martin Rosenblum 6 years, 10 months ago

Stats summary:

YTD, total team fouls.....424

Combined Marcus and Markieff.......129 fouls...30% of total team's fouls

TRob...47 fouls...11% of total team fouls

Brady...46 fouls...11% of total team fouls

Tyshawn...46 fouls....11% of total team fouls

The other 37% of the total team fouls are spread between all other players.

TRob's fouls vs. minutes played (339) put him at the top of the foul productivity per minute played list. The Morris twins were fairly close in fouls and minutes played, 1216 minutes played/129 fouls together.

NJHAWK 6 years, 10 months ago

Nice summary. Unfortunately, it does not take in to consideration KU's poor perimeter defense. Most of the time, TRob and Twins sacrifice their body to stop penetrating guards from other teams. In addition, it does not take in to account that physical play (body banging) happens underneath the basket and therefore more fouls will be accumulated by the "Bigs".

KULee 6 years, 10 months ago

What's the line on T's per minute played?

John Randall 6 years, 10 months ago

Pick a team, any team. The players who spend their time in the paint make more fouls and draw more fouls than the ones who are mostly on the perimeter.

Believe it or not, I formed this opinion with no use of statistics whatever.

Joe Baker 6 years, 10 months ago

Exactly! Don't get stupid and act like a big idiot.

Big Idiot, def.: Andre Almeida- NU

KULee 6 years, 10 months ago

The twins have great heart, great competitiveness and unfortunately, don't seem to remember they are playing in games that have video review. Every great team has a few outlaws, but we need them to reign it in and channel the aggression.

westernkshawk 6 years, 10 months ago

They need to get this right, not only for their teammates and basketball but also for the rest of their lives. They need to learn that aggression is not the way to deal with anything that doesn't go their way. Earlier in their lives, they may have lived in an environment where this was acceptable and even encouraged. But if they want to be the successful basketball players and citizens that they are capable of being, they need to get this lesson right now. And Bill Self is just the right person to teach it to them!!

BCRavenJHawkfan 6 years, 10 months ago

Most of the time these incidents have happened on the road. And one reason for that is these guys are not only getting it from the oppossing players but also those fans (mostly in student sections along the baselines). I can attest first hand to the foul mouthed trash from the tens of fans at the Texas Tech game. It is truly unfortunate refs won't do anything about that crap.

Now, as to the change in behavior. I am reminded of an old movie "Tribes" with Jan-Michael Vincent. Adrian (Michael Vincent) is a late 60's hippie inducted to the USMC. The drill instructor's first task is to break down the individuality of the recruits. Adrian will have nothing of this military way and accepts all the crap with a smile on his face.

So the message to the twins is, go find a copy of the movie and they'll get the picture.

rockchalk6 6 years, 10 months ago

I saw that on the TV coverage. One of the twins goes near the end line and some punk kid gets within arms reach of him and screams some s%#t in his face. Morris just turns and walks away. I thought that took great self control. I personally would have cold cocked him.

KansasComet 6 years, 10 months ago

The Kansas Jayhawks are 23-1 after 24 games! That is alot to be thankful and exited for! I am happy as hell! I cannot believe how many folks in the Jayhawk Nation are making such a big deal about physical basketball. I have said it before it is basketball. Sometimes noses get broken with elbows and teeth get loosened or knocked completely out. The Morris Twins are not thugs, they don't have a temper problem. They are playing Division 1 Basketball and they have a target on their chest. We get hard fouls and we commit hard fouls. It is part of the game. If anyone on the team gets a flagrant foul, they are gone. That individual has to live with that. If it contributes to the Jayhawks being eliminated from the tournament, then that individual will have to live with it. Calling players on our beloved team names, now that is not very mature. As I have said before, until I see a player go to the car and come back with a tire iron, I will refrain from referring to members of the Kansas Basketball Team as Thugs. There really is not any need for all of that. I like every member of the team. I am pleased by the recent play of Brady. I am so glad he is looking for his shot and not looking to defer anymore! I think we are the best team in the nation and looking forward to KU proving it on the court.

hawksince51 6 years, 10 months ago

The thing with Kieff seemed surreal to me. The contact leading up to it was not all that unusual. Then it looked like Kieff looked right at the ref, saw that he was being watched, and then just sort of taps the guy on the forehead. The refs were forced to review it given the "point of emphasis" but I figured the reason they only gave him an intentional and not ejection was that it was just a tap. I like the Morris twins a lot and it seems to me they are built to deliver plenty of "legal" punishment without doing silly stuff like that.

REHawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Man O Man, this article has really drawn posters out of the woodwork today! LJW really has a fine thing going, allowing us to go off so freely in these posts. Poor ol' jhwkinneb...I wonder if he is slinking back under a new moniker. And where is jaybate?

REHawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Wow! I know this has been posted previously, but I have just read the full gist at SI.com. CBS Sports and Turner Sports are broadcasting all of the NCAA Tournament games this year on 4 channels: CBS, TBS, TNT and truTV.

Clarence Haynes 6 years, 10 months ago

If I were HCBS, the next time one of the Morris' misbehaved, I'd give Momma Morris carte blanche to come down and backhand Kief or Marcus! That would stop it!

Benjamin Piehler 6 years, 10 months ago

as long as they dont get a technical, I dont care. keep it hood.

Hail_To_Thee 6 years, 10 months ago

If I recall correctly, Morris was not whistled for a flagrant foul. It was determined to be a technical foul. Isn't that right?

jbsd31 6 years, 10 months ago

Not trying to defend Markieff to much on this. It was a stupid move and hopefully it doesn't happen again and get him kicked out or cost them a game. But if you've got the game on DVR, go back and look at the block out on the free throw with 15:19 left in the 2nd half. Safford gets a solid cheap shot to Kieff's ribs and then pops him in the face, the incident happens 3 plays later. A lot like a personal foul in football, it's the guy who retaliates that gets caught. They've got to find a way to keep their heads though, people are going to be trying to bait into stuff like this a lot more from now on.

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