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Kansas forward Thomas Robinson muscles his way in for a bucket against USC forward Aaron Fuller (21) during the second half. KU beat USC, 63-47, on Thursday, Dec. 22, 2011 in Los Angeles.
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KU vs. USC
Los Angeles — Happy holidays, indeed.
Kansas University’s basketball team completed the pre-Christmas portion of its 2011-12 schedule with a 63-47 victory late Thursday night over USC at Galen Center.
The victory, which answered Monday’s defeat to Davidson, marked KU’s 23rd straight following a loss. The Jayhawks still haven’t suffered back-to-back losses since the 2005-06 season — a span of 215 games.
Not that this one was anywhere near as pretty as a fluffy snowfall on Christmas Eve. The teams in the early going were point-deprived, evidenced by KU’s 25-13 halftime lead.
Yes, the Trojans managed just 13 first-half points.
“Mr. Iba would have been proud of that first half,” KU coach Bill Self said of defensive-minded Hank Iba, who would have applauded KU for allowing the program’s fewest points in a half since Florida Gulf Coast scored 13 on Nov. 8, 2008.
“That was an exciting 40 minutes wasn’t it?” Self added with a smile.
Self had to applaud his troops for hard work on defense.
USC, which hit five of 22 shots the first half (22.7 percent), finished at 34.7 percent overall. KU forced 18 turnovers and had six steals, with Elijah Johnson snatching four.
“I thought we guarded them great,” Self said. “Our offense wasn’t good (41.5 percent shooting, 7-of-18 from three to USC’s 6-of-14 performance). It was good for us to guard that well the first half. We needed that. I’m a little disappointed the way we guarded the second half.”
USC scored 34 points to KU’s 38 after intermission.
“We rebounded well again (39-29 advantage),” Self said, “and Elijah, Tyshawn (Taylor, 10 points, nine assists, two turnovers while playing without a brace for the first time since his right knee surgery) and Travis (Releford) did a great job on Jones.”
Maurice Jones hit two of 13 shots and scored seven points with six assists and three turnovers.
“That’s a team that just hung 83 on TCU,” Self said. “They didn’t get a lot of good looks tonight.”
In Self’s words, USC did a “great job collapsing” on Thomas Robinson, who had 10 points and nine boards in 30 minutes. So KU worked it around well the second half, Johnson finishing with 14 points and Conner Teahan 13.
“Coach told us to expect it to be a grind-it-out game, and it was. We expected that,” Taylor said.
“My teammates stepped up when they doubled me,” Robinson noted.
As far as specifics, KU led 13-12 with 6:49 left in the first half. The Jayhawks finished the half on a 12-1 surge, which included five players scoring. KU’s defense forced 13 turnovers that first half.
The Jayhawks upped the lead to 17 points (32-15) two minutes into the second half, but USC cut it to 10 (40-30) at 12:39.
That’s when KU used a 15-4 run to go up by 21 (55-34) and put it away with 6:55 left. Robinson had six straight points and Johnson five in the run.
It all added to KU’s eighth win in 11 tries.
USC fell to 5-8.
It was a nice bounceback from the Davidson game.
“We had to win tonight. There was no other choice,” Self said. “Davidson ... to let that one get away, I can’t say it’s unforgivable, but it’s up there. That was very disappointing the way that went down in Kansas City.”
A crowd of 6,431 attended in a building that seats 10,258.
“We had to have half the stands, 2,500 to 3,000 fans,” Self marveled.
Faces in the crowd included actors Johnny Knoxville and Rob Riggle and talk-show host Jimmy Kimmel, who sat behind KU’s bench, as well as ex-Jayhawk center Eric Chenowith.
KU coach Bill Self talks about signing of Andrew Wiggins May 14, 2013
Ben McLemore interview March 28, 2013
360 QTR of Cowboy Stadium March 28, 2013
Jayhawks arrive in Dallas March 27, 2013
Jeff Withey talks about the team staying loose March 23, 2013
Comments
oxcaljayhawk 1 year, 5 months ago
I was at the game and have a few observations.
First, this team is incredibly careless with the ball at times. One-handed passes and catches, balls knocked out of their hands when they were looking elsewhere, etc.
Along the same lines, the offense looks worse in person. Dribbling from side to side with no purpose, not moving well w/o the ball to set a good open look. There was one sequence where they swung it around to get TRob a missed mid-range jumper followed by an SC defensive rebound.
I don't whether it was because of the late start, weekday game a few days before Christmas, poor play, etc., but that was the most lackluster KU crowd I've seen on the west coast for some time. Self is right about having 1/2 the fans in the stands, but the last time KU played at the Galen Center in '08 the Chant was still reverberating through the halls well after the game.
Did Tharpe just get a minute? Sure he made a mistake, but so did they all.
Finally, wanted to tell the SC fans about our FB recruiting coup today.
oxcaljayhawk 1 year, 5 months ago
Just checked Tharpe's performance. It turns out that 3 minutes may have been too much.
FreddyinLA 1 year, 5 months ago
Mid-week, late starting, boorrrrrriiiiinnnnngggg game, all adds up to a crowd sitting on their hands.
USC crowd cheered one time, when the video board played a message from Barkley saying he’s coming back for his senior year.
Pollard was seated in front of the KU celebrities. That guy needs to be working in the KU AD. He has to be our biggest fan.
USC could not hold the court at your local Y.
yates33333 1 year, 5 months ago
Yikes! Even when we win the posts are mostly negative. Be happy, this may not be an 8 and 3 team. There is some really rough water ahead in the conference. Check some of the Big 12 teams' records. I hate to say it, but Missouri is WOW.
Funhawk 1 year, 5 months ago
Mizzou is incredible this year. And, fun to watch.
PikesPeakSmitty 1 year, 5 months ago
You a closet Mizzery fan? Have you looked at their schedule? Cal, Notre Dame and Villanova are at the bottom of their leagues already. Most of the rest of their schedule is ridiculous. They have no big men. They have a terrible coach. They are notoriously bad on the road. Oh yea, their fans stink. I'm giving them the possibility of being better than us this year, but they are no freakin way 'incredible'.
hawkinator 1 year, 5 months ago
They are very good, but their strength of schedule is questionable at best... #100 right now in s.o.s..... I'm not sold on Heath either... my Mizzou buddies say that the Tigers were going to be good no matter what this year, and Heath might have little to do with their success, but I dunno.
Illinois is good, but the whooping UNLV game them in Chicago doesnt make it as pretty as a win.
http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team
hawkinator 1 year, 5 months ago
Haith.... "forgive" me.
marchphog88 1 year, 5 months ago
If you look at kenpom.com, it tells an even more gruesome story about MU's SOS. With a schedule ranked #331 out of 345 Div. I teams, MU has played multiple teams in the 250+ range:
343 Binghampton
326 Kennesaw State
321 William & Mary
299 Navy
289 SE Missouri State
269 Niagra
251 Northwestern State
Now, MU might be really good, but we can't really use the way they've been winning as an accurate gauge because of how overmatched 7 of their 12 opponents have been. They finally looked human against Illinois yesterday; conference play will be very telling.
hawksince51 1 year, 5 months ago
Kept dozing off and waking up to the same score. Early results would indicate knee surgery has improved TT's A:TO ratio.
Funhawk 1 year, 5 months ago
You missed the best part of the game - the USC cheerleaders. Words do not exist that can describe them. All they were doing were smiling and moving their arms a little, but they were the best looking cheerleaders ever. From that point on, you wouldn't even realize there even was a game.
oxcaljayhawk 1 year, 5 months ago
The USC Song Girls are the best looking cheerleaders in sports, especially when they wear those sweaters for FB. Covered from the neck to the wrist to the waist - they outclass the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders by a mile.
ralster 1 year, 5 months ago
Watching the Trojan Cheerleaders was very fun indeed...
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
Trojan Cheerleaders would seem an appropriate moniker ...
jaybate 1 year, 5 months ago
Very good defense.
Conner saved the game with his gun.
Travis had another solid Brady game again he won't get credit for, as Brady never did. He was "The Warden" on defense.
Inefficient offence inside, which is going to continue until they hit their FTs and and more than one guy at a time hits treys.
Second game of bad FT shooting
Bad trey shooting other than Conner means break out trey shooting coming against wrong teams next two cupcake games with tough shooting nights looming for first couple conference games (jaybate's new 4-game shooting forecast).
Still and all a solid win in someone else's gym in an ugly game against a coach that knows how to make it ugly.
jhawk7782 1 year, 5 months ago
I guess FTs are something HCBS expects the players to practice on their own time. Well...they aren't. Early this season, FT shooting looked vastly improved from last year. It isn't. It was interesting to be able to watch K State, Missouri, and Kansas, one after the other last night. Baylor is the most talented imo..but we have the better game coach.
Thought Young and Wesley are showing continued but slow improvement.
nuleafjhawk 1 year, 5 months ago
Evidently, free throws are for girls.
It appears that girls consistently shoot free throws better than boys. I don't have any facts to back that up, but that's my impression.
Let's invoke a rule change - no more free throws for the boys games. When there's a foul, put the two players involved inside the free throw rectangle and let them duke it out for one minute. One point will be awarded for each blow landed, and 5 points for a knockout. We'll show those girly girls. Free throws - BAH.
Play ball like MEN.
JCAR2510 1 year, 5 months ago
That is some funny stuff!
TROB will not be fouled the rest of the year!
No one is getting in the lane, and go to blows with TRob!
jaybate 1 year, 5 months ago
Rumor is ESPN execs saw your post above and are already insisting the NCAA change rules changes accordingly, but also want to turn the paint into a mud hazard and add two designated co-ed mud wrestlers to each team to do the wrestling. During the trail season, the co-eds will be walk-ons. If it spikes ratings, then team scholarships will be expanded by two to make it permanent.
XTReme Basketball comin' at ya!
I am joking, but I would not be at all surprised by it actually happening at the rate the game is going.
straight 1 year, 5 months ago
Thanks for dropping the "imo" in there, otherwise how would I know your post was your opinion?
HawkAlumn 1 year, 5 months ago
+1
rockchalkchalkin23 1 year, 5 months ago
It's a humility thing, obviously something you lack.
jhawk7782 1 year, 5 months ago
Are you serious? Get a life...
jhawk7782 1 year, 5 months ago
And why 'straight'? Overcompensating? TY rockchalkchalkin23.
marchphog88 1 year, 5 months ago
We're shooting 70% as a team this year. That's right around 100th in the country. Not amazing, but certainly respectable.
Self has a limited amount of time to work with these guys. It seems like that time is better spent working on the kinds of team-oriented drills that they can't work on in their own time. Expecting them to work on something as basic and fundamental as FTs seems reasonable to me.
jhawk7782 1 year, 5 months ago
Percentage wise..not bad but trending down. Also, we seem to miss most often when it counts the most, but that just might be perception.
theend 1 year, 5 months ago
Jaybate where the heck were you last night for the pre-game banter???
SDSurferFan 1 year, 5 months ago
theend- SDSU beat Elon by 26 last night.
theend 1 year, 5 months ago
Yes! I was just going to ask you for the score!
jaybate 1 year, 5 months ago
theend,
I had some commitments that prevented me from partaking. Yes, I was out-manned by my family. :-)
I've got some getting better to do!
AsadZ 1 year, 5 months ago
Bate needs his beauty sleep
oxcaljayhawk 1 year, 5 months ago
I called BS on Brady's "glue" game when Brady was starting ahead of Travis. Now I have to call it on Travis. 3 points in 28 minutes is bad. 90% of the time when he catches it, he just dribbles side to side w/o any purpose at all and then passes it off. He's got to drive more. He's got the size, speed and strength to make things happen when he goes hard to the rim.
daverinoku 1 year, 5 months ago
no kidding. Why is Releford so passive on offense??
we don't need glue this year, we need guns!
ibrown3 1 year, 5 months ago
The difference between Brady and Travis on the offensive end, aside from a couple inches and some athleticism, is that Brady was a terrific passer and could knock down the open three--he did it at over 41% during his career here. Unfortunately, Releford does not appear to be efficient at either of these things, so all he seems to bring to the table is great D, and little else. What good is athleticism when you stand around the perimeter passing the ball from side-to-side?
Also, in the past, we never needed Brady to score much, we needed him to take care of the ball, make sure the ball didn't stick in anyones hands, and feed the ball down low, and hit the open three ball.
However, this team doesn't have the scorers that the Brady teams did. We need Releford to be able to score the ball, hell, we need him to at least put up more than 2-3 shots per 35 minutes.
I don't know how much of this lands on Self (I imagine a lot), but I just think we need a little more production out of Releford, and I think he could if he was given the opportunity, or if it is on him, if he wasn't so darn passive. We need more than just his strong defense.
oxcaljayhawk 1 year, 5 months ago
First, Brady has nowhere near the athleticism of Travis. I don't think I ever saw Brady drive from the top in the half-court. Second, FG% is one of the most misleading stats there is. Look at the UCLA game from last year. http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=kusports&page=cbask/scores/final/boxscore.aspx?GAMEID=52343
Brady went 3-3 100%! Big deal. 6 points in 32 minutes is a meager offensive effort.
In fact, when you figure in Brady's TOs and PFs against UCLA, Releford had a similar game against USC. Both were not great efforts. The difference is that Brady is still being praised for his invisible glue.
OakvilleJHawk 1 year, 5 months ago
Please check my list under "post game discussion"...I'm too lazy to retype it :)
BleedCandB 1 year, 5 months ago
Copy + Paste
Heard of it?
kuwells 1 year, 5 months ago
That game was as ugly as Kevin O'Neil's haircut but a win is a win is a win!!!
Observations: 1] USC may not have any good players, but their cheerleaders....WOW!!!! 2] Did the USC coach yell constantly all night? 3] At times it appeared that the Jayhawks had left for Christmas break...the USC players already had!! 4] It looked like there was a lot of blue in the stands..but the place still echoed like a high gym during PE. 5] I wonder if HCBS wets down his toupee so it looks like he is sweating....very effective. 6] Gee, what a great nickname for USC...named for a wooden horse and cheap-ass condoms!! 7] Game summary - the big guys looked to slow, some of the little guys looked scared, Tyshawn was Tyshawn, thank God for Elijah anmd Conner. 8] Steve Kerr is a tool. 9] Looks like 10-3 going into Big 12 play - it appears like nothing is going to be easy this season!! 10] My sincerest wishes to all you fellow posters out there for a great Holiday Season....if there is something called virtual friendship, this is it. Special wishes to my bud kuwells!!
Remember, Christmas comes but once a year, but friendships last forever...unless you start cheering for Missouri!! :)
OakvilleJHawk 1 year, 5 months ago
Nice edit, but you forgot to merntion the other guys...still a big LOL
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
What's wrong with Steve Kerr? I didn't notice anything in particular.
OakvilleJHawk 1 year, 5 months ago
Something personal from 1988
kuwells 1 year, 5 months ago
Steve Kerr did a naughty video with Parishawk in 1988 and Oakville is jealous.
dylans 1 year, 5 months ago
The Hawks offense was terrible last night with a continued inability to feed the post. But the defense in the first half was terrific. The D in the second half was OK. The O in the second half was OK. Ty looked much more comfortable. The thing that bothers me most is the lack of touches for TRob. With each game Thomas seems less apt to pass out of the post to get better position because he isn't getting the ball back.
HighEliteMajor 1 year, 5 months ago
Go back and watch and determine how many post feeding opportunities were missed. Withey seems to be an impossible target, misses on the catch (see prior games), and fails to get position to receive the ball. TT, Releford and EJ have turned down opportunities to force the ball in to Withey.
Interested if anyone is seeing what I'm seeing. Be a rock, not jello on the block .. is Withey jello?
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
The fact that Chenowith was in the stands would explain all the problems catching the ball inside.
daverinoku 1 year, 5 months ago
I actually noticed Withey posting up a few times, in position to receive the ball, and we just continued to pass it around the perimeter. That said, I wish he were more aggressive / strong with the ball. Seems like he can never finish a dunk if anyone slightly touches him.
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
That's a good point, but at least he's a good FT shooter--which sadly is more than can be said for most of the KU players at this point.
dylans 1 year, 5 months ago
Withey needs to catch the ball better. Young needs to pay attention and not shoot 3s. But TRob needs the ball in his hands every possession in a position to score. The guards need to figure out an angle to get him the rock. Get the best player on the court touches.
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
LOL!
troutsee 1 year, 5 months ago
seems like KU fan base is currently more energized around football. that's a good thing. We can be excellent in both sports.
drgnslayr 1 year, 5 months ago
Both sports? There is more than one sport?
HighEliteMajor 1 year, 5 months ago
+1
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
Common now, drgnslayr. KU has a pretty decent track program ...
HighEliteMajor 1 year, 5 months ago
Jaybate above -- "Travis had another solid Brady game again ..."
I would suggest that Travis is the best on-ball defender at KU in perhaps the last 10 years. Struggling to think of a better one. I get caught just watching him on the defensive end. He is so good at cutting of the path to the bucket.
I would also suggest that if Travis were to assert himself on offense -- even as Brady did -- he would easily average a very efficient and needed 12 points per game or more. On other teams, that may be a luxury. On this team, it is desperately needed.
On Tyshawn ... see how easy that is? Nine assists in that scrum? When the game opens up a bit, nine assists should flow like butter. Just wish (upon a star) that when he drives, he'd look to pass first, not to shoot first. Take the shot if it opens up. But wishes don't always come true.
I'm sure everyone noticed .. but Young was first in at the 4 spot over Wesley last night. Good sign. That is usually significant with coach Self. Young had two good defensive plays, and a couple "where am I" moments. But he brings more than Wesley.
Saw the comment on our inability to feed the post -- Can Withey actually post up? This does not lie with the passing. Withey is really unable to establish effective positioning to get the ball low. There have also been some good over the top passes in the last few games that go off of Withey's fingertips. It's like Withey is spinning out in sand to get the ball.
Oakville pointing out the USC cheerleaders .. another good reason to DVR the game. I thought it was silly when I heard cheerleaders get scholarships. No more. The best use of the university dollar. Perhaps there could be a rivals.com site for cheerleaders. Recruiting battles, etc. I might volunteer to handle home visits. All of you who suggest that stars don't matter; I beg to differ. USC had a number of five star recruits -- game ready, no need for further development, and I bet they smell good too.
drgnslayr 1 year, 5 months ago
"I would also suggest that if Travis were to assert himself on offense -- even as Brady did -- he would easily average a very efficient and needed 12 points per game or more. On other teams, that may be a luxury. On this team, it is desperately needed."
Spot on. Travis needs to drive the paint more often. He did (at least once) last night and drew a foul.
For some reason our guards have the mentality that TT is the driver and the rest of the guards just watch TT or toss up the 3. TT can't do it by himself and others need to step up and play more aggressive offense. TRele is our best mid-range shooter, but in order to get those shots, he has to drive the ball and pull up in the mid range. Something he can do with ease (and perfection).
Our offense is way too predictable.
ibrown3 1 year, 5 months ago
You and drgnslayr hit the Travis situation on the head.
I shared basically the same thoughts using a few more words comparing/contrasting Brady and Travis, the roles they play(ed) on their teams, and the difference between this team and the Brady teams.
If I had just been patient and continued reading the posts, rather than hastily typing up my post, I could have rested my brain and fingers.
Yahweh 1 year, 5 months ago
RE: your first couple sentences: Brandon Rush comes to mind. Same skill set, though I give the edge to Rush, easily.
And, if we're talking overall best defender in the past decade, nobody touches Chalmers, and it's not even close.
HighEliteMajor 1 year, 5 months ago
Rush, easily? Not me. Rush got crossed over too many times. He had longer arms. Rush was very good. Releford has a quicker first step. I'd take Releford, but not really going to argue too much there.
But while Chalmers was an awesome on ball guy, he was really about 6'1" -- Rush and Releford have a big size edge there. And while Chalmers was a good defender, he was not a shut-down defender. Self would regularly move Rush to handle the smaller guard that Chalmers might otherwise guard. Remember the championship game .. Collins guarded Rose a good bit of the 2nd half, not Chalmers. And Rush guarded Stephen Curry in the Elite 8, not Chalmers.
Self had referred to Rush as his best defender in 2008, while Chalmers was on the team. Watch Releford and enjoy .. he might surprise you in comparison to Rush and Chalmers.
rockchalkchalkin23 1 year, 5 months ago
HEM
Agreed, Relly over Rush. I think Chalmers was the best overall defender as Yahweh claimed. I believe there are gonna be players that Chalmers can't/won't guard due to athleticism or strategy. I'm not sure on this, hopefully you or someone has some insight, but aren't players around 6'4 to 6'7 generally considered shut-down guys? Due to their size and versatility? I think the same goes for the best offensive players. Although, the height range on them vary more, from I'd say 6'3 to 6'9 (with bigs not in the mix). Not sure though.
I think Collins guarded Rose (athleticism) because of speed and Rush guarded Curry (strategy) because of height.
Yahweh 1 year, 5 months ago
I'd love to be proven wrong on the Rush/Rel issue. As far as Rush/Chalmers, I agree with you that they're totally different players. Chalmers was just an amazing ball hawk while Rush did have superior length. With Chalmers, though... I've never seen a KU player with such quick hands and a natural ability to jump passing lanes. Plus, his wing span was that of a 6'4" player (if you don't believe me go check it out in the Hall of Fame in the Fieldhouse), so his height wasn't quite as big of a deal as it might seem.
ralster 1 year, 5 months ago
Oak is spot-on/found-the-spot regarding USC cheerios--way to hit that, Oak...
Someone hit the "aggressive scorer button" on the left lower side of Travis' cranium. About 1.5" behind left ear...
mvjayhawk 1 year, 5 months ago
it was an ugly game...but this is it this year....it's how we'll win most of the time.
USC is not good....let's not sugarcoat it. they may be one of the worst major college teams we'll play...and that includes USF and any Big 12 bottom feeder. all that being said, we need to play D, rebound and handle the ball...and i think we did that last night quite well.
this team needs to be all about hustle...and doing the right things, all the time, on the defensive end of the floor.
let's have some nice Christmas time now with the fam...and then we come back....get some games in...and get ready for KSU. Merry Christmas and Go Jayhawks!
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
You're right about USC, but that could apply to UCLA as well ... or, for that matter, to pretty much any Pac-12 team this year. Has there ever been a worse major conference in NCAA history?
theend 1 year, 5 months ago
Would you rather they play "pretty" and lose......or "ugly" and win????
I'll take the win......and I'm not sure it was all that ugly anyway.
drgnslayr 1 year, 5 months ago
Imagine how ugly it was for USC?
I'm not sure winning is ever really ugly.... because there is a considerably worse outcome possible!
I'll take the win, too!
theend 1 year, 5 months ago
Exactly right! They won.....the rest doesn't matter too much.
BainDread 1 year, 5 months ago
If it is true, better freethrow shooting in the women's game may be due to the smaller basketball they use.
theend 1 year, 5 months ago
I don't think anyone should write off this team and season just yet as a rebuilding year. Remember......1988 Jayhawks won with a couple guys from the football team!!
Anything can happen.
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
True, but they also had a pretty decent player named Danny Manning.
As great as TRob is, he's nowhere near Danny's league. And TT is not nearly as good a point guard as Kevin Pritchard.
theend 1 year, 5 months ago
Very true. But you never know. And look at the "great" teams we have had that went home all to early from the tourney.......
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
Good point. I'd say Sweet 16 would be a good season this year but you never know what can happen. It would sure be nice to make up for some of the brutal losses in recent years.
4Runner 1 year, 5 months ago
It's a damn shame Withey (Whimpy) doesn't play his size! I think this hurts the Hawks more than anything. There's only so much Danny can do with coaching this kid up. Suit up Danny, we sure could use you! Rock Chalk!!
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
I think that's a little harsh. Withey had a pretty good game, as he almost had a double double and played his usual solid defense.
Sure, it would be nice to see him be stronger on offense, but his defense is always a factor.
theend 1 year, 5 months ago
Withey has his talents....like shot blocking. We cant expect nor demand any player be great. They are what they are. Self will use his limited talents as best he can.
As an aside.....I will say Jeff Withey seems like a very nice and decent young man. That's not really relevant to his playing ability.....but still.....it's important.
rockchalkchalkin23 1 year, 5 months ago
4Runner
Do you really think Withey's toughness issue "hurts the Hawks more than anything"? Would starting Wesley fare better? Young? Roles are roles, and abilities are abilities. Actorman and theend, way to back up Withey against the cheapshot complaining. He is who he is, and he generally plays pretty good.
BigManU 1 year, 5 months ago
Jaybate, where are you? This is definitely the thread for you and you're missing it. With all the Xtreme muscle ball that Self implores, he quotes the great Henry Iba so I'm waiting for the family tree of muscle ball fom Iba, to Sutton, and now Self.
Being it's the holiday season and I have a 10 hour drive, I would like something thought provoking, and at least 10 posts long that takes 45 minutes to read with at least 5 words that I have to look up in the google dictionary.
Merry Christmas everybody and Jaybate........................I'm waiting! LOL!
BigManU 1 year, 5 months ago
I need reading material!
theend 1 year, 5 months ago
I think Jaybate was traveling yesterday. He didn't get in on the pre-game banter last night.
BillCorey 1 year, 5 months ago
Nice win at USC last night. I was at the game and Galen was almost sold out with 1/3 to 1/2 wearing Jayhawk Blue. The Rock Chalk Jayhawk Chant at end of game was haunting. Reminded me of Allen Fieldhouse. Really nice turn out of Jayhawks at the game.
ibrown3 1 year, 5 months ago
I'm sure 1/4-1/3 in attendence were wearing Jayhawk blue, but "Galen was almost sold out?" It wasn't even 2/3 full. It was one of the most pathetic crowds I'd ever seen (excluding the Jayhawk faithful who attended). I can't imagine what it would have been like had it not been Kansas playing there, but UMKC or somebody instead. Maybe 1,500 fans. They made Mizzou Arena, or whatever it's called, look respectible.
BillCorey 1 year, 5 months ago
Oh well.............. SC fans are opulent (corpulent)? This KU fan is myopic? Well it was pretty full below the balcony. Couldn't see the nose bleed seats. Lots of Jayhawks nevertheless............
hawkcat 1 year, 5 months ago
This game sure showed the short comings in KU, and it seems there are a lot of them.
hawkinator 1 year, 5 months ago
Not sure the game brought anything to light that hasnt been exposed already...
Massive 1 year, 5 months ago
I text my brother late in the first half and relayed that a good KU team would be up by 40. Need to value the ball and hit shots. This team has potential but it is time to cut out the ridiculous turnovers. Big men need to dominate!!
jhawkr 1 year, 5 months ago
Agree 1000% ........ I remember texting my dad a few minutes into the second half "KU basetball 2011 = embarassing" ............ USC was worse then bad and we continued to let them hang in there till our second half run.
Any of us disappointed about last year would take that team back in a heartbeat !
jaybate 1 year, 5 months ago
"Optimus Will Defend Us All...And Keep It from Sticking"
ibrown3,
You are pretty much right on in the comparison of Brady to Travis, but...
Travis is trying to learn a lot right now.
As did Brady, when he was on the floor last season, Travis is basically running the offense.
I know it doesn't look like it to board rats, but the glue three mostly does.
The offense works like this.
Tyshawn brings the ball up the floor, or passes it up the floor, to one sideline or the other, and the ball then is passed to the high post who feeds the wing.
The first look of the high post is to Travis to initiate the offense front he wing, unless Elijah is wide open to take a trey for some reason.
With the ball in Travis hand, he has to choose ASAP among:
a) feed post; b) fake and jump shoot for three; c) reverse to point who drives or passes backside to EJ/Conner for a trey look.
If Trav puts it on the deck, he drives inside and Self would rather have bigs taking inside shots, or the guy on point driving the middle who can then dish right or left, or kick out right or left.
This is the essense of hi-lo offense.
This is a green team. Each player has to master the most basic part of the offense, before Self starts adding the options, or the team will not progress on the same page.
Some guys are naturals at certain roles and not at others.
Brady was a natural at this glue 3 role.
It looks easy, but to do it well you have to instantly recognize defensive coverage. You have to see not just who once in a while happens to be wide open, but you have judge which option to take when they are all covered pretty well, as is the case most of the time. You have to be able to think two passes away much of the time. You have to make a sudden choice among three options and for the offense to work, it has to be the right choice, otherwise the defense is not stressed by the ball movement and then KU drifts into looking like it is standing around a playing catch.
Brady was instinctively good at this role, but lord knows there were many games where KU drifted into standing around in his years on the job, too. It is only part science and skill. Part of it is an art. You are a conductor from this position.
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
"The offense works like this.
"Tyshawn brings the ball up the floor, or passes it up the floor, to one sideline or the other, and the ball then is passed to the high post who feeds the wing."
I actually wouldn't quite word it that way. I'd say it like this:
The offense should work like this: Tyshawn brings the ball up the floor, or passes it up the floor, to one sideline or the other, and the ball then is passed to the high post who feeds the wing.
However, it only works like that some of the time. The rest of the time, Tyshawn brings the ball up the floor, forces it into two or three defenders, and either throws up a ridiculous, wild shot or makes a crazy pass. If he's lucky, he gets fouled or the ball manages to end up in another KU player's hands. If he's very lucky, the ball goes in the basket. And about 2/3rds of the time when he does that, he either misses badly or throws the ball away.
rockchalkchalkin23 1 year, 5 months ago
-10
jaybate 1 year, 5 months ago
Frankly, I've watched Travis and I think he is doing an increasingly good job at it, in some ways even better than Brady. Travis is hyper, where Brady was cool. Self always had to hurry Brady up a bit, when the team wasn't clicking. With Travis, Self has to slow him down.
What is good about Travis is that his fast choices and physical response time is faster than Brady's. Brady was naturally more accurate and efficient. But Trav is naturally a bit faster and quicker.
This role is utterly new to Travis. Last season he was being asked to do what is natural for him. Come in, spark, and go getta basket, whether from the 3, or the 4. Boom!
But Self has Tyshawn, EJ and TRob to do that, when the need arises, and was hoping that Kevin Young might fill the role that Trav and Mario Little filled last season.
So: what am I getting at here in a nutshell.
Self knows he is asking Trav to play a role alien to his nature.
Self is doing it, because:
1) he wants Trav's defense on the wing;
2) he wants Trav to master the role before creating options to capitalize on his explosiveness; and
3) mastering this role will round out his game and make him one of the cornerstone, do-it-all impact players next season.
Self believes players can get better; that they can learn to get outside themselves and become complete players.
But he does not believe this until he sees the light go on inside them about what their role is.
Travis' late blooming ways are a product of his athleticism preventing the light from going on.
Travis kept thinking if he just learned not to make goofy choices, Self would let him play.
Next he thought if he just learned to stroke the trey, Self would let him play.
Next, he thought if he would make some spectacular plays, Self would let him play.
jaybate 1 year, 5 months ago
Travis could think all of this because of his awesome physical abilities.
Every other coach had been seduced by them before, so Trav figured if he just kept trying harder at being the best of what he had always been, Self would play him.
But Self kept saying, no, no, no, you have to become a basketball player, not a baller.
Self is like a psycho therapist in some ways. He keeps driving his players closer and closer to what they believe they are not, to what they cannot conceive themselves as being, in order to knock their blinders off and discover who they really are as humans playing a game.
Thomas Robinson, the guy with the motor, the guy with the monster body, the guy with the athleticism, the guy who can rebound in his sleep, Self say, you've got to play under control, you've got to develop finesse moves 15-18 feet out. TRob is a vastly better player because of Self's stubborn insistent that he come out of his comfort zone.
Tyshawn Taylor, the guy who never played PG in his life, the guy who had ADD, the guy who was the lightening quick mommas boy that liked to fade away on the way to the rim; that Tyshawn has to learn to play glue 2, he has to become the point guard of a seasoned team with an OAD PG on it breathing down his throat; and as a senior, he has to become the team leader, not with his mouth but with his example. Tyshawn is a vastly better play because Self has stubbornly drawn him out of his comfort zone.
Travis is being forced out of his comfort zone.
Self is color blind. He is long and athletic blind. He is strength blind. He doesn't buy that Euro Americans can only be glue men. He tells Tyrel Reed to go be a man and jump with the long and athletics.
Self doesn't buy that African Americans are only capable of athleticism, or of just being impact players. He dragged Tyshawn Taylor kicking and screaming into the glue 2, when all he wanted to do was drive baseline and fade away, and then the PG spot, when he could barely dribble and had just gotten the idea of glue.
jaybate 1 year, 5 months ago
Self doesn't buy that long and athletics have to play the wings. He put EJ at the flipping point; then as soon as he got comfortable, he put him at the 2 and said, "shoot the rock" from down town; this from a player who made his name jumping through roofs in high school, and having after burners end to end. Stand out their like a fixed artillery piece 28 feet from the basket and make plays with your wrist! You say you can shoot it. Let's see what you can hit, when you don't have the crutch of putting it on the deck every time. Let's see what a man you are when TT is doing the get to the rim duties and you have to save, or sink, this team with your wrist alone, Mr.Greatest Impact player I ever recruited. Analyse this, smart guy!
(People don't realize this yet, but regardless of his grades may be, Elijah is probably one of the smartest guys on the team.)
Self doesn't buy that the previously lesser twin has to stay the lesser twin. He takes Markieff Morris, a natural inside player, and sends him outside to the high post and tells him to make treys and flipping get rebounds. Do people understand how frisking hard that was to do?!!
Self doesn't buy that the traditionally better twin who wants to play the wing should be on the wing, where he fancies himself. He makes a garbage 4 out of him, then a scoring 4 out of him, and then the center piece 4 carrying the entire team on his back. You see yourself as 3? Well try carrying a team on your back while playing out of position.
I wish to hell Thomas Robinson would come back. Self might play him at the point next year!!!
jaybate 1 year, 5 months ago
Self brought Kieff and Marcus out of themselves and they will owe their NBA careers not just to Danny Manning who taught them moves and understood how to reach them, which is who they think they owe their careers to right now, but to Bill Self, who gave them Danny, who gave them "to" Danny and said play them out of position and turn them into total players. And I don't care how long it takes.
Be patient, iBrown3.
Travis Releford is being groomed to be yet another of Bill Self's total players.
He is presently ass deep in the Self Institute for Advanced Basketball Studies.
Travis has a trey ball...he proved it last year.
Travis can fly through the air with the greatest of ease, like the man on the flying trapeze...he proved that with the dunk of the year in college basketball last season.
Travis can defend like nobody's business, we learned that last year when Self sicked him onto 4s.
But what no one thought Travis Releford could do in a century of Sundays was be a glue 3 that actually settled a team down, made all the right choices, and literally glued the team together into performing the best that it could possibly perform, because of him, not inspite of him.
This inexperienced team is 8-3 having probably played the toughest schedule in the country and could easily be 9-2, with 35% treys against Davidson, 10-1 with 40% treys vs. Dook, maybe even 11-0, with 45% treys against UKonvict.
Contrary to current prevailing sentiments, this inexperienced team has performed above expectations. I personally thought they might be .500 right now before rounding into form. They are ahead of schedule.
They have had heroics by TRob, who plays with a bum knee and elbow, and Tyshawn defying all laws of human performance with a full game on a torn meniscus and a full game within a week of knee surgery! And Withey has already come farther than anyone expected for the entire season by half way.
jaybate 1 year, 5 months ago
But it is because Travis has learned to do the role he has, against his nature, that this team is 8-3 and not .500.
Travis is tearing the arse hole out of most of the guys he defends on ball.
But waaaay more importantly, Travis is, at this point of the season, starting to provide as much, and sometimes even more help defense than Brady provided, and Brady was the ne plus ultra of perimeter help defense during his years.
Trav's range on help defense is just Transformer like right now. When he is able to be fully focused, and does not slip into wildness, he is almost Optimus Releford. walking around saying, "I have come from another world to defend you Jayhawks from the evil Decepticons." I thought it would be Tyshawn and TRob doing this, but Travis is the Optimus Prime on this team right now.
And one look at the on-court perimeter huddles reveals now that Travis is the "stabilizing" influence on Tyshawn and EJ. When their shots aren't falling, it is Travis that is the one staying calm and focusing them. Trav still over celebrates a bit when he does something good, but then that is Travis, as surely as a few extra pop tarts are Tyshawn, and some distracted worrying is EJ, when the shots aren't falling.
Self picked Travis to be the man who does not have to worry about scoring right now, because he needed someone out on the floor not fretting and stewing when they aren't dropping.
I can't say if Self will ever cut Travis loose this season. If Trav's 3-4 treys a game start falling within the current scheme, then yes he will certainly. It depends on how comfortable Trav gets.
But I am utterly confident that during the imminent week of getting better coming as it always does this time of year, Self will install a couple of plays expressly for Travis, as he did for Brady. Brady was given the drive the baseline play and go to glass, or pass it cross court falling across baseline to a waiting trey shooter.
I don't know what Self will hatch for Travis, but it is going to be something that will give opposing teams a serious migraine, I can tell you that. Why? Because Travis is an athletic monster. It may be a clear out TRob and Jeff, with Travis shaking and baking with both TRob and Jeff counting three, then crashing back side ready for dishes if Travis can't dunk it. I don't know. I'm not that smart.
But Bill Self is.
And by now, we have learned, that Self does not groom guys, and then not use them. If not this season, then next. He does not take them out of their comfort zones for the sake of doing it. He is prepping them to be cornerstones down the road.
Until then, Optimus will defend us all, and keep it from sticking.
actorman 1 year, 5 months ago
Only six consecutive posts, jaybate? What are you doing, giving us the condensed version?
theend 1 year, 5 months ago
Ah! The return of Jaybate!
ralster 1 year, 5 months ago
Predictions on KSU@KU? (mine is KU by 6 (ugly) or 16 (ku treys clicking...). KSU is offensively challenged, and their bigs underachieve. Frosh forward of theirs is making a bit of noiz...
rockchalkchalkin23 1 year, 5 months ago
Ralster
I think this one is very hard to tell. KSU games generally have a lot of fouls called in them due to their style. Average fouls called in their games, 47.5 to our 36. Since we don't have the traditional starting lineup, a line change, and a couple to boot, this will require a solid all around game from our boys. I think the showboating left with Jacob Pullen. They have pretty good scoring balance. Although Spradling is not that athletic, he plays smart and has fearless aggression. The noise maker you referenced, Gipson, has been impressive. McGruder is solid offensively and a very good rebounder for his position.
If Ty and Trob decide to make this game "worth the ticket price", it will be ugly. However, I think if the guys focus is to play JHN proclaimed "Selfball", it will definitely be a double figure win at AFH. They've got to play their roles and trust their mates are doing the same. Trust is the key in Self's system.
theend 1 year, 5 months ago
Ralster I have not seen you around in a while.......I would say KU by 10-15. K-State is not so great and usually does not play well at Allen. Manhattan will be a totally different story.
Have a great Christmas, Ralster
lee3022 1 year, 5 months ago
Per Kenpom.com (the best college basketball statistics site:
Rank School League Record Score Offense Rank Defense Rank 1 Wisconsin....... B10...10-2.........9759......114.6.......10......79.8.........1
2 Ohio St........... B10...12-1.........9677...... 114.4....... 11......82.1.........2
3 Kentucky........ SEC...11-1........9641.......117.6.........4......85.3.........5
4 Syracuse....... BE....13-0....... .9555.......119.2.........2......88.4.......16
5 North Carolina.ACC..11-2.........9527...... 116.3.........7......86.8.........8
6 Indiana........... B10...12-0.........9363...... 115.7.........9......89.0........19
7 Florida............SEC...10-2.........9309...... 120.6.........1......93.6........59
8 Kansas........... B12.... 8-3.........9300...... 111.2........26......86.4.........6
9 Missouri.......... B12...12-0.........9281...... 118.7..........3......92.5.......45
10 Baylor............. B12...11-0..........9247......111.7........21......87.4.......12
11 Duke...............ACC...10-1..........9221.....115.8..........8......91.0.......30
The upshot is that KU, even with three losses is the 6th best defense and the 26th best offense in the country. Ahead of both Missouri and Baylor. That echoes what coach Self said before the season - that this team will guard well and the issue will always be how they can score points.
marchphog88 1 year, 5 months ago
Is anyone else sick of the constant presence of disparaging comments aimed at our guys?
I'm starting to lose track of all the different players KU fans love to rip on. Too many people insist on focusing on the shortcomings of our players and have no appreciation for the talents they DO have.
I don't remember anyone ripping on Cole Aldrich for one of his 9/9/2 games. But Withey is a stiff who can't post up after that kind of a line. No one seems to notice how often Withey gets good post position and the ball doesn't get passed inside.
Speaking of posting up... I can't remember the last time we did the whole 'post, pass inside, pass back out, repost, pass back inside' move that seemed to be a staple of the 2008 team, the Cole teams, and even the Morris teams.
I'm enjoying watching this team take its lumps. I refuse to write a Bill Self team off until they actually fail. And I don't consider an 8-3 record against the 14th hardest schedule in the country this far to be a failure. Self's signature D is still rearing it's head (6th most efficient D in the country).
rockchalkchalkin23 1 year, 5 months ago
+100.
theend 1 year, 5 months ago
Yes! I'm guilty of negativity at times(very guilty)......but I have not nor would I ever single out an individual player. These guys are just kids......and I know for certain they try their best. Sometimes that's not enough......but still....they do the best they can. Your post is timely......especially given that soon will be Christmas . Well done, sir. Happy Holidays.
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