Monday, December 12, 2011

Charlie Weis recruiting to KU already

Kansas football recruit Dayne Crist watches from the stands during the second half on Saturday, Dec. 10, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas football recruit Dayne Crist watches from the stands during the second half on Saturday, Dec. 10, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.


The Charlie Weis Era may be just a couple of days old, but, already, the Kansas University football program has seen a change in how recruiting is handled under its new head coach.

In short, it seems no fish is too big to fry for Weis, who has wasted little time in targeting some big-name talent to join him in Lawrence.

It’s a well-known fact that Weis is in the hunt for former five-star quarterback prospect Dayne Crist, a senior at Notre Dame who visited KU over the weekend and reportedly is down to deciding between Kansas and Wisconsin. Crist, who has one year of eligibility remaining, will graduate this month and has said he plans to transfer for his final season. Because of NCAA rules, the 6-foot-4, 235-pound pro-style QB will be eligible immediately.

Weis also has extended scholarship offers in the last couple of days to South Bend, Ind., wide receiver Gehrig Dieter, 6-3, 200; Bishop Miege running back Tre Parmalee, 5-10, 160; Tampa (Fla.) linebacker Schyler Miles, 6-2, 220; and Butler County CC defensive tackle Chaquil Reed, 6-3, 290.

Reed has interest from K-State and Minnesota, and Miles has offers from Cincinnati, Florida and West Virginia. Crist, whom Weis recruited to Notre Dame, chose the Fighting Irish over Florida State, Michigan, Nebraska, Stanford and USC.

While Weis made it clear that he would not shy away from going after the best players he can find, a determining factor in how he shapes his first recruiting class at KU likely will be how many scholarships he has available.

“The big question with me is, there aren’t a lot of seniors on the roster,” Weis said. “Therefore, there aren’t a lot of spots for recruits. What you have to figure out is what that number will be, so you can recruit the appropriate number of people.”

Prior to being fired, former KU coach Turner Gill had locked up eight oral commitments from athletes in the Class of 2012. A couple of them have bailed, and a few remain committed to KU. Weis figures at least to visit with each of them, and there already have been rumors circulating about a handful of current Jayhawks ready to transfer. That’s no surprise to Weis.

“Anytime a new coach comes in, I would say the natural attrition is 10 to 15 players,” he said. “This is everywhere. When people say, ‘So-and-so came in, and 12 guys transferred,’ every other coach, when they go in, the same thing happens. The same thing happened my first year at Notre Dame. I think 13 guys left in the first year.”

The departure of some players often is matched by the arrival of others, and Weis said the important part was figuring out quickly who would stay and who would go so he could hit the recruiting trail with a better idea of what he needed.

“I don’t want to undersign,” he said. “I don’t want to go out there and sign 15 guys if I can sign 25 guys. I also don’t want to take people just for numbers. You want to take guys that fit what (we) need.”

When Weis arrived at Notre Dame in 2005, he inherited a recruiting class that was ranked 40th in the country by Notre Dame’s next four recruiting classes all ranked in the Top 21, including three straight hauls in the top eight, and the 2008 class ranked second.

While those numbers can be explained partly by Notre Dame’s status as a football powerhouse, the head coach’s reputation likely had something to do with it.

Similar results may be tough to duplicate at Kansas, but since taking the job, Weis has seemed determined to try.

“I’ll hire you a top staff. They’ve given me the resources to do that,” Weis told the Allen Fieldhouse crowd during Saturday’s basketball game. “I’ll get on the road and pound it on recruiting to supplement our team.”

Perhaps his biggest advantage in his quest to repeat history?

“I have knowledge that I didn’t have last time,” Weis said, “which makes things a lot easier going forward.”


Hank Cross 9 years, 10 months ago

This all could be sound and fury signifying nothing, but I like the way Weis is trying to get KU into the recruiting game all around the country and keep local talent like Parmalee. I'm tired of the attitude that the only FB players KU can get are 3rd tier talents from TX.

Hank Cross 9 years, 10 months ago

KU is less nationally relevant to CFB than MS State is to CBB. ( I had to think of the last time a non-traditional BB school made it to the FF). As of now, if it came to be 4 16-team superconferences based solely on FB, KU would probably be left out.

I've never really cared about KUFB before, but realignment has made it crystal clear that FB drives the ship. And if KUBB is to retain its status, KUFB has to attain some level of success.

Ben Kane 9 years, 10 months ago

how long did you have to think about the non-traditional final four??? last year maybe...

Alex Berger 9 years, 10 months ago

Except we don't even get the top talents from Kansas.

Bangkok_Jayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Agreed... Wish we could have cashed in on guys like Geneo Grisson, Justin McKay, and Blake Bell.

troutsee 9 years, 10 months ago

Absolutely agree. There has been too much reliance on the state of Texas in our recruiting philosophy, leaving us with the leftovers. Also, agree that we need to go after the best of the local talent.

ku_foaf 9 years, 10 months ago

Texas has 10 times the population of Kansas, and HS football is huge. There are a lot of good players to go around. OU and OSU depend a lot on Texas players, K-State, too. We certainly have had some very good players from Texas. The biggest thing is often Texas players are willing to go to an out of state Big 12 school. Believe me there are a lot of schools from across the country that recruit in Texas.

I agree we should go after the good Kansas players, but face it. This has not been successful in the past. I'd love to see it change, but I wouldn't agree we have been getting only mediocre players from Texas. We sometimes find the ones that are not highly recruited and overlooked.

Hank Cross 9 years, 10 months ago

The point was not to ignore TX, but to expand horizons. The SEC is doing just fine w/o depending on TX for players.

texashawk10 9 years, 10 months ago

The SEC has Florida, Alabama, and Louisiana as their major recruiting bases.

texashawk10 9 years, 10 months ago

If the state of Kansas produced enough D1 talent to sustain a team, then there would be much more emphasis on recruiting locally, but Kansas doesn't produce enough D1 talent to sustain a team, much less two teams, so KU and KSU are forced to look elsewhere for talent and since Texas is where the closest major recruiting base is, that's where you go looking for talent. It would be great to see KU and KSU keep the local talent at home, but the state of Kansas is not the most important recruiting base for either school unfortunately.

cheerio 9 years, 10 months ago

KU and KSU also whiffs on a lot of good local talent because they don't look hard enough.

kellerman411 9 years, 10 months ago

Too much reliance on Texas? Everyone relies on Texas, it's one of the major "hot-beds" along with Florida and California.

KU_Alumn_2000 9 years, 10 months ago

I love how aggressive and optimistic HCCW is with recruiting...and bringing in a top notch coaching staff. Hopefully he keeps David Beaty.

Does anyone have any inside information on which of the current players are going to transfer ? Hope we keep Bourbon, Pick, Miller, and Pearson. Hopefully Keeston Terry and McDougald stays too.

Red and blue KU red and blue KU !!!

lv_jhwk 9 years, 10 months ago

Terry, Miller, and Shepherd are names that I've seen mentioned so far.

Alex Berger 9 years, 10 months ago

Darrian Miller? Really? I sure hope not.

lv_jhwk 9 years, 10 months ago

Message boards and other internet places. I should have noted that everything I read was merely rumor.

Eric Williams 9 years, 10 months ago

Miller was recruited by Mitchell, who is staying, so not sure he'd leave.

texashawk10 9 years, 10 months ago

Pick and McDougald are going to be seniors this season so there's no chance of them transferring because their careers would be over at this point.

lv_jhwk 9 years, 10 months ago

Had to go back and look up the receiver as I thought his name rang a bell, and it did. Kid set a national record for receiving yards in a game early this past season, over four hundred. Doesn't have many big time offers, so perhaps Weis and his South bend foray can pay dividends here as well as in addition to Crist.

While excited about these guys and who else might be brought in, have to admit I'm almost as curious to know for sure who will be exiting and why. From the stories I've come across, it seems that loyalty to Gill isn't necessarily the case.

KU_Alumn_2000 9 years, 10 months ago

Matt Tait - you should start an up to date log over the next week regarding the recruiting moves, transfers, and assistant coaching hires. Kind of like how you did the 11 day log rearding the head coaching hire...and the conference realignment.

shelleysue 9 years, 10 months ago

Yes please. Regular updates would be very much appreciated.

frompekka2sasha 9 years, 10 months ago

Yes. P-p-p-lease. Those updates are awesome!

Off the path a bit...I'm hoping that the new Star Wars will have an option to eliminate the scenes with JarJar Binks. That would be wayyyy cooool junior.

Kevin Long 9 years, 10 months ago

Tait is on vacation this week! Probably well deserved after this last 2 weeks!

gardenjay 9 years, 10 months ago

I sure hope Weis does his best to keep Shepard.

LogicMan 9 years, 10 months ago

Good luck to our new coach and staff! I look forward to becoming a dedicated fan again. The last two years have been difficult, especially because Gill is a very decent person and was quite a player on the field for NU in his day. Hopefully top notch recruits will flock to KU under the new management.

Bville Hawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Good article from the Topeka Capital Journal that fairly describes the KU football situation:

Michael Maris 9 years, 10 months ago

This a very good link. I will tell you. I supported Coach Gill. I thought that he had a better degree of understanding what it took to win in the Big XII. But, after two seasons, he clearly did NOT have any clue as to how to motivate young men to the level that they needed to compete at.

Successful collegiate football coaches are NOT your best buddies. The sooner that the mass money supporters at KU figure this out, the better Kansas Football will become. I was pissed when KU lost Coach Gottfried to Pitt. I was even more pissed when Coach Mason was ran out of Lawrence. Then, the Mangino issue took place. I've said it many times before, Coach Roy Williams wanted to be the alpha dog @ KU. When, AD Bohl let him know that Mangino and his staff were going to get paid, the Alpha Dog stuck his tail between his legs and bolted for home pastures. I supported Coach Williams and was pissed when he bolted for home. Left a bad taste in my mouth for KU Alum Dean Smith (as well). When, mamma called him, he turned his cheeks away from Momma KU. But, he couldn't do the same to KU. But, in the long run it worked out for the better. Cause, Coach Self did more in his brief tenure at KU than Ole Roy did in 15 years.

Thank God, Coach Self understands that College Football needs to be successful as well as the Basketball Program. If KU Basketball started losing games like the KU Football Program has done over the decades. Allen Fieldhouse would not be any where near as full as it has been over the same decades.

Now, another era has arrived for KU Football. So called Fans of KU, you better stop whimpering every time you hear of the football coach getting on to a football player to perform at a higher level. Like I heard Coach K (recently) talk about calling home to his mother and complaining about Coach Knight riding his butt. At least Coach K's mother had enough insight to advise Coach K, that at the least the coach is talking to you. If he isn't, you are NOT going to see the court.

One of my old highschool former football coaches actually coaches in the KC metro area. His name is Coach Bill Lowe. He is a disciplinarian. He won a State Championship at my old highschool. He now coaches at Blue Valley Southwest. Was Coach Lowe well liked by the players at Protection High? No, he wasn't. But, he knew what it took to win football games at the Highschool Level. And, he has won a LOT of football games in his highschool coaching career.

Mark Lindrud 9 years, 10 months ago

I don't have an issue with coaches getting on players to perform because I always have gotten on mine to be as perfect as they can be so that they will improve everyday. Keeping the bar high is vital so your team can win.

Clarence Haynes 9 years, 10 months ago

Nothing that a few exxtra donor bucks could resolve and if he has not done so already, I hope that Dr. Zenger is on the case to find some funding to further upgrade football facilities.

Matt Kenton 9 years, 10 months ago

Good article. But wow Jake Sharp, thanks for the quotes competing schools can use to scare our recruits away!

Dan Pawlowski 9 years, 10 months ago

"When the past two years wiped clean all that the Orange Bowl team toiled for in 2007, the status quo returned, and Kansas fans mostly shrugged." Sorry but if anyone from CJ would have been paying attention to the postings here they would have seen that many fans were doing anything but shrugging. I could not disagree more with that bogus statement.

Danny Hernandez 9 years, 10 months ago

IF any players don't want to be stay, then go. I don't care who you are! There's a new sheriff in town, and a new sheriff means new rules. Either you're with the new sheriff or you're not. That simple.
You can and will be replaced.

Go Charlie!

eastcoasthawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I, for one, am excited to see our current players with a new coaching staff. You really get tired of seeing the same mistakes over and over again and see little to no improvement from game to game. Time to start sawing wood again!

Steve Yeakel 9 years, 10 months ago

Go get 'em Charlie, we are excited to have you as our new coach.

Jim Jackson 9 years, 10 months ago

Any news on David Beaty being retained? I sure hope Miller stays, dude was nasty. C'mon Dayne Crist, come join us! Great academic school with smokin' hot girls. What more could you ask for?!!

Apparently him and Weis are real tight. I like our chances

FSUJHAWK 9 years, 10 months ago

I hate to say this but I hope HCCW convinces the admin and donors to get rid of the track and fund a new home for the relays. Recruits keep laughing at the fact that the track still remains. I know the relays are a big part of KU tradition but something has to be done. SZ, go to work!


Bangkok_Jayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

The track isn't the only problem... The entire back drop on the Campanile side is basically a chain link fence. Take out the track, put up a nice brick wall that would both look nice on game day and be a good addition to the graduation ceremony.

  1. Remove the track (essential to a legitimate D1 Stadium)
  2. Put up a better wall on the Campanile side (also essential)
  3. Gridiron Club (would be really cool)
  4. With the track removed, add 5,000 seats (the more the merrier)
  5. Add a Hall of Fame somewhere at the stadium (really cool!)

FSUJHAWK 9 years, 10 months ago

Matt, is this something you can research a bit further? I'd love to get SZ's take on all this. Thanks.


Jayhawk1116 9 years, 10 months ago

Getting rid of the track takes a lot of money! We just paid $6 million for Gill and still owe Mangino and Perkins. First thing's first. Once the football team turns it around and makes money again, then I'm sure they'll build the Olympic village by Hoglund and get rid of the track.

For the football program to make money, though, people need to show up on game day. I'm in.

Bville Hawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Someone posted last week that removal of the track, lowering the field, etc. was feasible from an engineering standpoint (everything is doable, right, with enough dollars). Estimates to do the job range from $50-200 million. So that's serious cash.

Just playing around with some numbers: If lowering the field would let you add 5000 additional seats and you could sell them all at $100 each per game and 5 home games per year you'd be looking at an additional $2.5 million in revenue per year in return for your $50 million (at best) investment. I think you can see from this that the smart $$ decision is to ignore it 'cause it would take 20 years just to pay off the principle, let along the interest.

Clarence Haynes 9 years, 10 months ago

That number becomes more achievable if you have revenue from incremental seating coupled with attracting an additional 5000 fans per game to patronize existing capacity.

Clarence Haynes 9 years, 10 months ago

Also, for a capital project of this nature, it is viable to do a 20 year payback!

JayHok 9 years, 10 months ago

Pretty sure it'll be a lot more than 5,000 seats in the sub portion. I'd say closer to 20,000. So if you average our guesses let's say it's 12,500 extra seats.

And surely there's a firm with connections to KU that could do it for $10-$25 million.

What if we get our investment back in 5 years?

I cannot begin to describe the difference in the fan/player experience a week ago @ the PAC 12 championship game in Eugene when the passionate fans are on top of the game. UCLA players couldn't hear a thing.

This needs to be done one way or another.


741hawk 9 years, 10 months ago

The number for seven rows around the stadium is 7,000 seats (if you include the horseshoe). I've done the math. Next? No one has accurately revealed what the actual costs of track removal would be. So, let's not get ahead of ourselves. We simply know that from an engineering study, that it can be done.

At the Orange Bowl barbeque, the Chancellor replied to my comments about the track. "So you think KU should have a first-class football facility?" "We'll," I replied, "Yes I do!" That's the point. We need a first-class football facility for many, many reasons: recruits, home field advantage, perception, etc. So, tear out the track and tear out the horseshoe seats for seats across the back of the end zone. If all that is too expensive, then we should consider a new stadium.

JayHok 9 years, 10 months ago

I stand corrected! 7,000 seats. I say squeeeze in an extra three rows and raise it to 10,000. That's three thousand extra fans on top of you, in a remarkably loud sound sound chamber that has only one place for the noise to go--- On the field and into Bill Snyder's headset!


Joe Ross 9 years, 10 months ago

You just gave numbers for the ADDITIONAL seating, right? so it wouldnt take nearly that long if you counted the revenue from ALL seating! makes no sense..

KFoz 9 years, 10 months ago

See below if you really want to spend some money.

741hawk 9 years, 10 months ago

The momentum is growing. Mention it every chance you get. Rock Chalk (And Tear Out the Track!)

phi4life940 9 years, 10 months ago

GET RID OF THE TRACK!!!!! Recruits don't want to go from being at a highschool stadium to being in a highschool stadium (Memorial Stadium).

They want to be able to tell a difference. They want to be at a UNIVERSITY!


P.S. - if SZ actually get's rid of the track in the next few's official - I love him.

Bangkok_Jayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Agreed. The track and the chain link fence on the Campanile side of the stadium need to be up graded.

JayHok 9 years, 10 months ago

While we're at it, this about becoming the best right? Well this is a relatively cheap one with a huge payback--- canvas needs to be placed around the new practice field. If we're playing to win, Bill Snyder shouldn't be able to sit in his car feet from our nationally top 5 practice facility with binoculars, a video camera, a note pad and a voice recorder while smoking an old man pipe.

HCTG's strategy was awfully predictable, but still could we make it any easier for the opposition when they could watch every single second of practice the last couple seasons?

Let's treat our four time Superbowl champion right. Please cover the practice field for Weis, Zenger. That's probably the most important/biggest payback thing to start with for Weis and KU's new attitude.


Kansashawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Mangino placed guards along Mississippi and up on Campanile drive. I call them guards for lack of a better name.

superhawk22 9 years, 10 months ago

If players want to leave, let 'em. We went 2-10 with them, we sure as heck can go 2-10 without them. We need players who want to be here and are 100% committed to making this team better.

Chayse Patrick 9 years, 10 months ago

That's exactly right. It isn't like these players are 4 and 5 star studs. 2 & 3 stars are all over the place. KU only has a handfull of players that I'd like to keep. I look at it this way, if they don't leave now they surely will when CW brings in someone to take there spot on the field ????

FSUJHAWK 9 years, 10 months ago

Also, what can we do to keep the students in the stands beyond half time? The culture of KU Football must change if KU is to be successful. Those who love and support the bball program to the death surely must understand that without a successful football program the bball program will die if realignment were to occur!

With that said, it's great to learn that SZ got the money to attract HCCW to KU but it's also great to know that the admin will be providing HCCW with the resources to bring in a great staff. Let's hope SZ and HCCW can change the culture and break this vicious circle that is KU Football. RCJHGKU !!!

jackwhacker 9 years, 10 months ago

"Also, what can we do to keep the students in the stands beyond half time? " Answer: Be competitive in the game.

Eric Williams 9 years, 10 months ago

lol. we were supposedly competitive under Mangino and students were still leaving early then.

texashawk10 9 years, 10 months ago

That didn't happen even when KU was competitive.

LSHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

+1. We gotta change the culture of KU football, without a doubt. We must all get behind it, buy tickets to the games and not allow the adminstration to ignore the football program in anyway. We as alumi and the students must show that a second class football program will not be tolerated and that we expect the football program to become what the BB program is. This is not impossible but it is imperative if KU is to remain a great place to go to school.

JayHok 9 years, 10 months ago

Bringing in a coach whose won 4 superbowls is an excellent start. Bringing in a five star QB certainly would help. Lowering the field is right up there too. The entire experience changes bigtime, it turns into a very large Allen Fieldhouse with really good accoustics considering the playing surface is now underground and there's only one place for that sound to go. People seeing it on TV would think we've moved into the SEC.

phi4life940 9 years, 10 months ago

"Also, what can we do to keep the students in the stands beyond half time?"

To echo jackwhacker: Win. Or just not get blown out by a million points.

Eric Williams 9 years, 10 months ago

Were we not competitive under Mangino? I didn't care for him, but he was competitive, and we consistently had students leaving in the 3rd quarter.

I'm not entirely sure what the answer is, but it's not as simple as being competitive.

JayHok 9 years, 10 months ago

Lower the field. The entire experience changes for fans. They become part of the game in a way we've never seen before. It's essentially as close as you can come to an Allen Fieldhouse experience, except outside. Our sound must bounce around the inside of the bowl, punishing the opposition. Right now much of it escapes and may only reach the track so it's tough for fans to have the Allen Fieldhouse experience. It's all about the experience. If the experience is good enough, 65,000 will come. I'm not even a UCLA or Oregon fan and I seriously had a blast at the PAC 12 championship, simply because of the experience. It was not as good as Allen Fieldhouse, but about as close as an outdoor facility can get to a place just taking over the game.

It can be done before next fall's kickoff if Weis and Zenger get it rolling with a couple phone calls. 20 year upgrade loans can be taken out, no problem. Buy a couple Sump Pumps and get it done. We have Weis. It would be crazy to not capitalize on the buzz of having a four time super bowl champ. The time to do it is now.


Jayhawk1116 9 years, 10 months ago

You can't put the cart before the horse. The kids will stay once the football team becomes successful again. They stayed in '07 and other successful seasons.

At least they aren't offering a free Xbox raffle for any students still left in the 4th quarter like they did in years past.

FSUJHAWK 9 years, 10 months ago

i remember being a kid at college and watching many painfully embarrassing games back in the day. Win or lose, I'd be there until the very end, just as i did with the basketball team. Maybe times are different now. Incentive or no incentive, win or lose, embarrassing or not, if you're a Jayhawk you stay until the very end - no excuses! At least that's how it is in my book.


Mark Lindrud 9 years, 10 months ago

Gives us a chance to get another defensive lineman. We have Brock, Cummings and Russell so we have enough young QB's to develop next year. Let's hope we get Crist so they can develop for a year. We seriously could win 6 games next year with the right QB.

TXJAYHAWK7 9 years, 10 months ago

If spring training is done and its a open competition we may be surprised who comes out as the leader of the qb race. Lets face facts TG didnt leave the cupboards bare actually left the program with some homerun hitters if they are given their chance to shine. As great as a resume is I look at what a coach does with what he has and what he brings in to compliment what he has. Do we honestly think that if TG knew he would get axed after this season compared to what he was contracted for that he wouldnt have put his freshman on the field? We have a new coach and alot of talent at skill positions I think we need some good o lineman and some great d lineman we got whipped upfront all year

Bruce Rist 9 years, 10 months ago

If fans want to up-grade the quality of recruiting, fill the stadium on game day. If you want top tier recruiting, don't leave after half-time. If you want 4 and 5 star recruits, fill the stadium at the Spring Game.

Recruiting can't be just the coaches. Jayhawk Nation has to get involved. I don't expect an Allen Field House experience, but you get the point.

If you don't go to games and you don't attend the Spring Game, don't complain about the recruits.

Mark Lindrud 9 years, 10 months ago

Jayhawk Nation is excited and we believe in our new coach. When Gill arrived we were cautiously optimistic, but I am certain we will fill up the stadium because there is a lot of excitement.

phi4life940 9 years, 10 months ago

Very well said. When Gill came, I didn't have any feelings either way about KU Football. But with Weis, I am SO excited. I'm looking forward to the spring game like it's late night! I'm not expecting to go bowling, but I am expecting to see the culture start to change and competitive football instead of getting trounced.

Get rid of the track!!!

Rock Chalk.

blackhawkjayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

A promotion to improve spring game attendance is a good idea

FSUJHAWK 9 years, 10 months ago

This is one the points i've been trying to make. The entire culture from the boosters, to the students, alumni and the admin need to change. SZ seems to be making some noise. Let's see if he will help KU turn the corner.


LSHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Not expecting a field house experience is part of the problem. All of us MUST expect the football program to strive for the sucess that the BB program has had, period. We should not tolerate anything less than a total commitment to winning, at football as well as basketball.

Bruce Rist 9 years, 10 months ago

Understood. But let's walk before we run.

Mark Lindrud 9 years, 10 months ago

We really do need to get Christ here. A big recruiting battle victory already would be big. I know it wouldn't be the biggest thing in the world, but to get him here would create a lot of momentum for recruiting and give us early recognition. Recruits would have to at least give us a second look.

ahpersecoachingexperience 9 years, 10 months ago

We would go undefeated with Christ as our qb. No doubt in my mind!

(ps, your auto correct changed a pretty important word in your post)

Dennis Mahorney 9 years, 10 months ago

Perhaps a reference to Coach Weis getting a "Touchdown Jesus" statue for Memorial Stadium.

actorman 9 years, 10 months ago

I'm not sure you're right there, ahperse. I mean sure, he could create some miracles and all. But he would be way too friendly to the other side and KU wouldn't have the competitive edge it needed.

Mark Lindrud 9 years, 10 months ago

Haha didn't realize the typo! Guess, Gill gave us Christ and that didn't work very well.

Martin Shupert 9 years, 10 months ago

I'm from South Bend and have always been a die hard ND football fan. When Charlie came to town there, he talked the talk. He is a great recruiter (I think). He is a pretty good offensive coordinator too (I think). He knows what he's talking about when he coaches QBs. He's a fairly good game day coach. One thing he never did for ND is prepare the players for the season. It was astounding how poorly his teams performed in the fundamentals. If he has learned that you cannot assume college players will prepare themselves, then we might have some good competitive teams in the near future. The teams at ND were in horrible condition. The lack of strength was a glaring problem. Zone blocking simply didn't work and yet, he insisted on using it. The defenses were porous to non existent. Primadonna behavior was seemingly encouraged (e.g. Clausen). All the while, he talked the talk. In the end, it felt like we had been sold a bill of goods. He could sell ice to eskimos. I hope that the pressure of coaching KU will be less than ND and that he will thrive here. I fear it's all smoke and mirrors again, but there is a chance he will turn this program around. Go Jayhawks.

Mark Lindrud 9 years, 10 months ago

I am hoping that Coach Weiss has learned from his previous mistakes, which many coaches do better their second chance as a head coach. If he can recruit even close to what he did at ND our talent level should increase dramatically.

actorman 9 years, 10 months ago

Thanks for the insight, marty. I was not at all thrilled about this hire, and have been astounded at the virtually unending love-fest from Jayhawk fans. Obviously some of that has to do with Weis not being Turner Gill. But I'm afraid that people are not looking closely enough at his track record at ND.

As others have expressed, my hope is that he has learned from his past mistakes and also that he will hire great assistants. But I'm concerned that after the initial flurry of excitement, things will just revert to more typical Jayhawk football.

I would sure love to be proven wrong.

Bangkok_Jayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

The stadium is hindering recruiting. The people mentioning the track are not irrational at all. The track isn't the only problem, the entire back drop on the Campanile side is basically a chain link fence. Take out the track, put up a nice brick wall that would both look nice on game day and be a good addition to the graduation ceremony.

  1. Remove the track (essential to a legitimate D1 Stadium)
  2. Put up a better wall on the Campanile side (also essential)
  3. Gridiron Club
  4. With the track removed, add 5,000 seats (depending on ticket sales)
  5. Add a Hall of Fame somewhere at the stadium Maybe on the bowl side?

JayHok 9 years, 10 months ago

At the base of the hill a grand entrance with statues of Sayers, Riggins and the inventor of the modern day forward pass, Tom Brady?

KFoz 9 years, 10 months ago

As much as I despise the track and love the campus setting, we may have to look at this from a different angle.

If one was to consider spending $50-$200 million to remove the track and add seating, perhaps the notion of building a new stadium should be brought up. If KU is seriously considering the need to become a football school, stop investing in Memorial for football.

  1. Lawrence's old infrastructure: it is difficult to reach and leave campus on game day. To the east we have two models on how to get traffic in and out for an event: Truman Sports Complex and the KS Speedway. Perhaps look towards I-70 for locale, maybe K-10 bypass (but I have not researched this out). This may come across as whiny, but poor attendance at a football game is double the attendance at a basketball game. Does anyone remember the KU/K-State game in the 90's when the stadium and the hill were both overflowing (pre-scoreboard when one could actually see the game from the hill)? 3 hours to get from campus to East Lawrence. Maybe that's once in a lifetime; I would like to think and dream that is what could be in store for EVERY KU home game.

  2. Kansas City is home to a few sports architecture firms. We have the necessary skill set in KU's backyard.

  3. The new stadium would be state of the art - how better to build a commitment to football and recruiting advantage.

  4. Memorial Stadium would continue to go hand-in-hand with the Anderson complex to provide all the training facilities necessary for the program. Keep the track and, perhaps, build up around it for Olympic sports. Perkins had drawings for an Olympic style village near Allen; put it all on the grounds of Memorial. Remove the remaining parking lots and you have ample space to accommodate. Thus the stadium becomes multi-purpose for all KU athletics in addition to other events, i.e., graduation, concerts, etc.

Just thought I would throw out another idea as the track removal discussion has gone on and on. And this is coming from a nostalgic person; I am so glad movement has never come about to replace Allen Fieldhouse. The refurbishment of Allen is amazing and I am glad they did it.

Frankly, Memorial does not hold the same sentiment for me. Bite the bullet now, build a new stadium for a new era in KU football, create a bigger buzz for the KU brand on the college scene (seating capacity is a problem at Memorial if realignment does rear its ugly head again), and host KS State High School championships.

Just a thought...but here is food for thought:

KFoz 9 years, 10 months ago

I kicked that idea around a bit as well and could support it. However, it is still very difficult to get in and out of the stadium. I guess I should have clarified infrastructure as traffic grids. Mass., Iowa, 6th, 9th, and 23rd streets all become parking lots. Perhaps it is time to call Clay Chastain and develop some sort of light rail for Lawrence!

KFoz 9 years, 10 months ago

And keep the money in-state: play a season at the KS Speedway.

FSUJHAWK 9 years, 10 months ago

Great points and vision to all of you! Surely our admin is considering these options? I think the fans and the media ought to start putting pressure on them for not implementing anything close to visionary and long-term in regards to KU Football.


actorman 9 years, 10 months ago

One other benefit of building a new stadium in a different location: we'd never again have to go to a KU football game on Missouri Street!

troutsee 9 years, 10 months ago

  1. Make the stadium a bowl. For too long we have held the "hill" and the "campanile" in reverence. When I am at a game, I watch the game. I don't sit there and stare at the campanile or the hill.

Jayhawk1116 9 years, 10 months ago

Can't give up that view, man. It's what makes that stadium a beautiful venue.

danmoore 9 years, 10 months ago

The hill is part of the ambience. Doesn't do anything when you are in the stadium but it looks awesome on TV.

DocBean 9 years, 10 months ago

ha, that would be great! too bad they hate each other.

John Myers 9 years, 10 months ago

That would be awful.. But if we could snag Crennel for DC, that would work.

John Randall 9 years, 10 months ago

I'M not sure – how long since he concentrated on fundamentals?

Bville Hawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I hope that everyone posting on here about removing the track, lowering the field, and filling the stadium is a football season ticket holder and a Williams Fund member. If we can field competitive teams that are in every game and have a chance to win every game going into the 4th quarter I think you'll find that filling the stadium and keeping people in their seats to the end is not a problem

Jim Jackson 9 years, 10 months ago

Any word on Beaty? We need his recruiting. Seems like a good man and coach too.

texashawk10 9 years, 10 months ago

Keeping fans in the stands for the second half is not nearly as simple as just fielding a competitive team because the student section was still close to half empty pretty early in the second half even when KU was competitive during Mangino's final seasons in Lawrence. Having a competitive team helps with keeping people around, but KU's administration has do more to keep the stadium full throughout the game.

Here's some stuff that other schools do to try help boost football attendance and all of these are non-traditional football schools. At Duke, it's a requirement for students to buy football season tickets as part of their sports pass in order to get basketball tickets as well. KU administration could make it a requirement for WEF members to buy football season tickets in order to purchase basketball season tickets. More than likely anyone who can afford season tickets for KU basketball can afford to buy season tickets for football as well.

Baylor has the freshman line. They are the group of students wearing those gold jerseys that make the line when Baylor's players come out of their tunnel at the beginning of the game and are very easy to spot in the stands. I think it would be wise for KU come up with something to get incoming freshmen involved with the game because this is a way to get students interested in KU football early on and keep them coming back their sophomore, junior, and senior years as well.

A friend of mine that went to North Texas told me that UNT closes all dining halls while games are going on so if students want to eat, it's encouraged that they go to the tailgates at the stadium. This could be helpful for KU because if a student doesn't have a car, it can be a pain in the butt to go get something to eat off-campus and there's enough tailgating at KU to feed the students. If you can get the students down by the stadium while the game is going on, you have a better chance of getting them inside the stadium while the game is going on.

Obviously none of these ideas guarantee any increase in attendance and without at least a competitive team have no chance of working, but these are all ideas that other places have implemented in efforts to increase football attendance to varying degrees of success. I'm also sure there's plenty of other ideas out there to help boost attendance, but these are three that I have heard about and seen used.

Mark Lindrud 9 years, 10 months ago

Every little bit helps. I am hoping our new administration will help come up with ideas to create more excitement for our football team. Creating our own traditions can be done.

vc727 9 years, 10 months ago

I am not sure when it changed but back in the late 80's when I was there it was a requirement that if you wanted basketball tickets you had to get both football and basketball. I was in the Marching band and didn't need football tickets, but had to buy them anyway. Halloween 87 was the worst day of my life cold, rain and KU football.

MDHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I'm not sure if you already knew this, but It's already a requirement for students here to purchase football tickets in order to buy season basketball tickets. It's been that way for as long as I've been purchasing them (5 years).

texashawk10 9 years, 10 months ago

I'm not talking about students doing that because I already know that students have to buy both, but WEF donors who buy basketball tickets do not have to buy football tickets as far as I know and that's where I was going with that.

DevilHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

If you want to keep people in the stands: 1. Enclose the stadium and keep it heated on game day. 2. Make it easier to get to and from the stadium. Think parking structures and a possible lightrail line between Lawrence and Overland Park. 3.Play games later in the day. 4. Establish an ability to come back from being down by 21 or 28. 5. Don't give quizzes and exams on Mondays.

texashawk10 9 years, 10 months ago

As I said towards the end of the post, none of those ideas guarantee an increase in attendance and the best chance of increasing attendance and keeping people in the stands is to win and be competitive. My thinking with making the purchase of football tickets a stipulation of being able to purchase basketball season tickets is that the athletic department gets the money regardless of whether or not people go to the game. Having the money would help fund further upgrades to the football facilities and improve the quality of the program in the long term. Another possibility is even if the person who buys the season tickets doesn't use them, they could sell or give them away to friends, families, or co-workers so that someone could go to the game that wouldn't necessarily be able to go to the game otherwise. Nothing is guaranteed though so there is no guarantee that any of these ideas work, but they're at least worth looking into to see the feasibility and cost of these ideas.

jamill4 9 years, 10 months ago

Friend within the program has indicated Jordan Webb has been cut from the team and Weis plans to cut up to 20 scholarships in the coming weeks.

blackhawkjayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Based on Charlie's comments, I think that it's a foregone conclusion that we will be at 25 available scholarships for the signing period. I wish no kids any I'll will but improving the program probably means making some roster improvements.

Randy Bombardier 9 years, 10 months ago

Wow. Watch him go to K-State and come back and torch us.

Sayers44 9 years, 10 months ago

Just shows you what scumballs the NCAA and the University of Kansas are..

Scholarships only good for one year - the players just get used and then tossed aside. These players are trying to get an education and a degree!

Webb gave his best effort for "Good Ole KU" and is rewarded by some new coach coming in and saying "GOODBY" - you are no longer needed.

There is no loyalty to the players.

University of KU wants loyalty from the players but there is no loyalty in return.

This is a sad day when KU (Weis) strips a scholaship from a hardworking player like Webb.

It is not right...this really stinks!

Bville Hawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I didn't think the school could just drop a kids scholarship just because.

741hawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Unfortunately, they can. And they do in the SEC . . . regularly, every year. Since the 80's, I think, they were changed by NCAA from 4-year to 1-year renewable grants.

NCAA: Looking out for student athletes. NOT!

Martin Shupert 9 years, 10 months ago

Charlie should probably go talk to Brian Kelly about all the improvements Coach Kelly had to make at Notre Dame in order to make the team competitive after Charlie left. If Weis comes in ready to make those changes as well as a few of his own, we might have something. I hope you guys all know that Charlie walked away with 10 million, just to leave ND. Talk about golden (dome) parachutes. We will need a training table, a decent strengths coach, good coaches, not simply Charlie's buddies from the NFL, and Charlie has to recruit defensive players. Manti Te'o was the exception at ND. Weis gets fixated on the offensive side of things. However, do not assume he's got college football offense figured out. ND was woeful the last couple of years, even with a top rated QB. His offensive lines were usually horrible. I'm not assuming it will be any better at KU. I hope it will be. I seriously doubt this coming year will be very much fun. Vince Lombardi probably wouldn't win with the recruits we have at this time. After that, I'm holding out hope we get competitive in the next few years.

kellerman411 9 years, 10 months ago

When next season starts, we need to pack that stadium and show Charlie that we too, the fans, are also committed to our football program.

In a heartbeat, I would trade our basketball program for a football program with similar success. That big ol' stadium on the north side of campus will pay the bills.

actorman 9 years, 10 months ago

Kellerman, are you out of your freakin' mind?!?!?!?!?

JayHok 9 years, 10 months ago

Like the new stadium concept but I still like this one a lot more because it can be done in the offseason and I'd like to see a firm's estimate if it only takes 3 months for instance. Can't see digging a hole and removing the dirt being anywhere close to the cost and time of building a new stadium.

Just a question to any engineers or math people. If the field was lowered, would there really be only seven rows to be placed between the current first row and the new edge of the field? I haven't done the math at all, but I swear my common sense has me walking down a bunch of steps. You would have to walk down enough to finish the horizontal distance all the way across the track. To me that seems like at least fifteen maybe twenty rows at 1,000 people per row. Maybe I'm way off but if just like to see the math if anybody knows how to do it.

Thanks and RJH

texashawk10 9 years, 10 months ago

Each row of seats is about as wide as a lane of the track and there has to be room on the sidelines for each team so I would think maybe 5 rows would be the max that could be added. Personally, I wouldn't even bother with the lowering of the field because there's a much easier (and probably cheaper) way to expand the capacity by several thousand and that's to add permanent seating at the south end of the stadium. The video board has already blocked any view from the hill so why not go ahead and build permanent seating at the south end any way to help try and enhance the entrance for pregame and for graduation. Before any consideration to removing the track can be done though, the olympic village that will house programs like track, softball, and soccer have to be completed.

JayHok 9 years, 10 months ago

Texashawk, thanks for the informed response. I certainly have been off by a few rows. Your explanation makes sense.

Wanted to make another point on this clear. If we're only digging five rows deep, the excavation just got a whole lot easier. Still a lot of digging, but that's a lot easier and more impactful from an acoustical standpoint to have your field in the ground than building an entirely new stadium at ground level.

So the expansion to me in seats, though nice, isn't really the point to me. Like you said KU can get it up to 75,000 easily through other means, especially completing the U which is not nearly such a complex engineering feat.

The point to me is the football team benefitting from a real stadium that sits right on top of the field. So even though my estimates were way off, the job apparently is easier than I thought if it's only five rows, but the effect the team and fans get out of it is hard to imagine.

I can tell you after going to the last game in Eugene the impact is huge and the experience is fantastic. Much like Allen Fieldhouse, the experience needs to be so good for a neutral fan that you want to go back. That's exatly how I felt in Eugene as I walked on the field after the Ducks won the PAC 12. I don't root for the Ducks a single bit, but if I could have that experience in Lawrence, I'd fly back 5 or 6 times a year for home games. The experience is the stands sitting right on top of the field and seeing that the other team can't think or hear anything but fans yelling.


beebe1 9 years, 10 months ago

Why have so few of you read any of the background on lowering the field? The plumbing under the field wold cost a fortune to eliminate or move!

The only good idea in this mess is to enhance access -- either by relocating the stadium or building access freeways from existing super highways. Maybe a sequence -- first access, then a new stadium. What you propose is way short on value compared to the cost.

741hawk 9 years, 10 months ago

And what "background" is that?
I know that I had a discussion with Dolph Simons, Jr. in early '90s. I know that three months later he shared with me a three-page letter summarizing an engineering study on that very topic. It stated that lowering the field the equivalent of seven rows of seats was entirely feasible. By the way, the letter was addressed to Bob Frederick, and Dolph was cc'd.

Point of reference: Washington is removing the track in their $250 stadium remodel and lowering the field (leaving KU and Duke as the only BCS schools with a track inside their fb stadiums). No problem there. OU removed their track in 1948! No problem there. Colorado removed its track many years ago. Many Division 1 schools used to have tracks inside there stadiums. KU was late in creating a home filed advantage.

rockemchalkemrobots 9 years, 10 months ago

Based on the potential cost vs return, it might be better to embrace the track or remove the track without lowering the field. It is clearly keeping us from big time success, though. Ask Boise St. They had to change their field color just to draw attention away from their track. Now when you think of them do you think, "look at those track loving weirdos play football!", or do you think, "look at those smurf loving weirdos play smurfball!"?

JayHok 9 years, 10 months ago

Standing room only where the track used to be!

But then do people see the game? Short people in front on the track?

I do like the idea in general, it would be like being at the Kentucky Derby except no one on the inner circle could see and the opposing football team would be scared out of their minds.

But we could pack 100,000 in there!

I don't think any of us have a problem with the track perse, it's that the stadium is a long ways from the action. It's not as much of a homefield advantage as when your stadium is nearly on top of the field making it impossible for the opposition to think or hear anything of substance.


herk59 9 years, 10 months ago

I would love to see the new coach take a look at a prospect I have been watching in central texas for a few years. Ethan Horton. He was one of the best QB prospects I saw around here a couple years ago. He transfered from 2A Early to 4A Brownwood and switched to LB. I still think he should have stayed with QB, but he likes to hit too much. He didn't flash as much as I would have liked this year, as he was playing with casts on both arms, playing through a broken left arm and broken right hand, but still brought havoc. This kid reminds me of Smith Center boys with his character and drive, but he has been up against bigger competition. Plus, he likes Kansas.

Todd 9 years, 10 months ago

Why is it that most everyone only suggests removing the track to add seats? How about finishing the upper portion of the bowl? Or what about adding another deck over on the side opposite the media booth instead of the failed touchdown club thing (you could still put luxury boxes in there too)

Also, the more I think about it, I love the idea of a nice brick wall with an iron gate for the players to go through or the students to enter through during graduation. Statues would be a great touch as well. Hadl, Douglas, Sayers, Riggo. All deserving.

texashawk10 9 years, 10 months ago

KU is currently one of 3 BCS schools with a track around the field along with Washington and Duke. Washington is currently in the process of tearing up their track which will leave KU and Duke as the only two BCS schools with a track. While the players and recruits get to see the new facilities that KU has that are on par with any school in the country, when games are on TV the only thing viewers see is a stadium that still has a track and that's the impression they have of KU football and that's not a good impression to send to the rest of the country.

Brent Atwater 9 years, 10 months ago

Leave the track and I agree as a football school any expansion should be a new deck from the North Bowl to the Southeast side of the Stadium with possibly additional boxes above the student section.

55jayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

What is the status of our Red Shirt Freshman from Colorado? Is he staying, is he as good as he thinks he is? Something's going on and has been, I would like to have that slot squared away pretty soon one way or another. Regarding the track, leave it. We need the space for teams, TV and what not. I would add a second tier to the North side like TX A&M's as we really do not have a view to the North anyway. I agree with cleaning up the South end and making it more of a class act when the money is available. Let's get a team together and start winning again then $ will not be the issue.

tophawk87 9 years, 10 months ago

The only thing that will bring in KU football fans is wins. It is that simple. If Charlie Weiss wins games, he will be a hero in Lawrence. If he loses games, he will be a zero.

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