Tuesday, December 6, 2011

KU coach Bill Self calls for harder, smarter play from Jayhawks

Kansas head coach Bill Self has words for forward Thomas Robinson after Robinson picked up two quick fouls during the second half on Saturday, Dec. 3, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas head coach Bill Self has words for forward Thomas Robinson after Robinson picked up two quick fouls during the second half on Saturday, Dec. 3, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Bill Self, who has had a lot to say to the media about the lackluster play of Kansas University’s basketball team after the last two games, discussed some of the same concerns with his players on Sunday.

“He challenged us,” KU junior center Jeff Withey said before Monday’s practice in Allen Fieldhouse. “(He said) that we’re not playing up to the expectations we should be, that we can be a really good team. It’s all up to us. We have to play harder and smarter.

“It was a good talk. It was a motivating talk — one that kind of called us out,” Withey added of the words of KU’s ninth-year coach. “We’ve got to be ready for the next two games. If we can beat Long Beach State and then Ohio State, that turns around our team. It definitely can help us out a lot.”

The No. 13-ranked (5-2) Jayhawks face a pair of home challenges this week in unranked (4-3) Long Beach State and No. 2 (8-0) Ohio State. Tip for today’s game against the 49ers, who already have a marquee road win over Pitt, is 8 p.m. Saturday’s game against the Buckeyes is set for a 2:15 p.m. start.

“We know what we have to do. We have to prove it on the court,” Withey said. “I think it’s going to be a different team just because of all the things coach talked about.”

KU senior point guard Tyshawn Taylor, who tonight faces a tough match-up in 5-10 senior Casper Ware (needs 44 assists to become the 49ers’ all-time assist leader), said of Sunday’s message: “Coach was asking questions and wanted to know how we were feeling about some things as a team.

We worked on some defensive stuff. Today we’re working on offensive sets and getting prepared for a good team. They can come in and beat us if we’re not ready.”

Self is wary of a Dan Monson-coached Long Beach State team that starts four seniors and a junior off a squad that won the Big West Conference title a year ago and is picked to win the crown again this year.

“If we look ahead to Saturday, we’ll go into Saturday’s game with three losses,” Self said Monday.

The 49ers have double-digit scorers in Ware (17.1 ppg, 4.6 apg), 6-5 guard Larry Anderson (15.1 ppg) and 6-8 forward T.J. Robinson (13.7 ppg, 11.3 rpg). Guard James Ennis and forward Eugene Phelps chip in 9.4 and 9.1 ppg.

“They will try to score every time in transition. They are really in attack mode,” Self said. “The only team that’s played like that so far is Kentucky, trying to run off everything. They are definitely an NCAA Tournament team. This team will probably be the second most talented team we play at home in the nonconference without question (next to Ohio State).”

The 49ers may have history on their side. A Seth Greenberg-coached Long Beach State team stunned top-ranked KU, 64-49, on Jan. 25, 1993, in Allen Fieldhouse. That KU team reached the Final Four.

“It was 18 years ago, I guess, they came in here and held Kansas to 49 points — a Kansas team that could really score,” Self said. “They’ll come in here ready to play.”

As far as his own team ... junior guard Elijah Johnson has scored five points in the last two home games off combined 1-for-11 three-point shooting.

“He’s been on fire shooting the ball. It’s been unbelievable. He’s been knocking it down,” Self said of Johnson’s accuracy at practice. “He’s been doing that for a while. It just hasn’t translated into the games. He says it feels good. I’m not as much worried about his shot. I’m worried about his shot affecting his play, losing aggressiveness in other areas. He’ll make shots.”

Taylor has been talking to his backcourt buddy a lot of late. “Probably more than he likes,” Taylor said. “I keep telling him, ‘We need you to play, man.’ We need him to be one of the leading scorers on the team, assist man, steals. We need him to be a threat on the court all the time.

“I don’t think he understands how important he is to the team winning yet. I think he’s starting to understand it.”

The problem? “I think he’s not all the way in tune all the time,” Taylor said. “When he’s in tune, he can be a good defender. He’s as quick as anybody. We all know he can fly.

“It’s a lot easier said than done not getting down on yourself when you are not playing as well. It’s hard,” Taylor added of Johnson, who can be hard on himself. “I think he has to go through that stuff and learn how to fight through it. He’s never been through this situation before. He’s learning. I think it’s a proven fact if you go through bumps in the road, there’s a stretch coming where you play really well. I think he’s about to go through that stretch.”


Withey talk: Junior center Withey takes a 7.9 points, 5.3 rebounds average into tonight’s game. He’s blocked 14 shots in seven games.

“I haven’t blocked as many shots as I want to,” Withey said. “Being more aggressive, going after more loose balls and rebounds would definitely help us out.”

Taylor grinned when asked if Withey is a “laid back” person.

“That’s exactly who he is, always chillin’, never says too much,” Taylor said. “He throws little jokes in here and there. It’s funny because you are not paying attention to it. You are like, ‘That came from Jeff?’ I wish he’d talk more. That’s his personality, who he is.

“I would love to see him get mad more, honestly. I’d throw a basketball at him or anything. I’d love to see him mad. When he actually snaps and gets mad, it’s funny. One time in Maui he dunked it and got ‘and one’ and started screaming. I think the whole bench, even our coaching staff, cracked a little bit, like, ‘Really?’ It’s good to see he has that personality. I like Jeff. Jeff’s cool.”

Self conceded: “I think a mean streak would help, no question. He’s a nice kid. Thomas (Robinson) is a nice kid, too. Hey, whenever we’ve needed rebounds in our biggest games, Jeff has been a factor: against Duke, Kentucky, UCLA in the first half. That’s a big-time factor. He’s been as good a rebounder as we’ve had in stretches. He just needs to be more consistent.”

Illness: Self was asked about the ‘crud’ that’s been going around the team: i.e. headcolds, congestion, fevers.

“I haven’t talked to any of the mothers or people in the medical profession today about that,” Self said with a smile. “I think we’re fine.”

Come to cheer: Self believes the fieldhouse will be loud for both games this week.

“It should be the best our building is going to be during nonconference,” he said. “I hope everybody understands Long Beach State is good. It’s a great opportunity for us this week to play two quality opponents at home and hopefully put them (players) in a situation they actually feel Allen Fieldhouse. We need this building to be great, which it will be I’m sure.”


Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Dis and dat:

Two games this week, and the Jayhawks better not look ahead to Ohio State.

Interesting that two of the best rebounders in the nation will be playing against each other tonight, both with the same last name - Robinson.

Have been very happy with KU's freethrow shooting so far this year. Especially TRob's improvement, and with Withey shooting lights out. Keeps opponents from fouling our bigs to prevent easy in-the-paint shots. Jayhawks are averaging about .744%, which is tied with about five teams in top 25 or so. Keep it up, team.

<p> has two stories on two of KU's high priority recruits for the 2013 class: Walker lists KU in his top three. Unfortunately, he has asked advice from LeBron James, who has recommended he attend Ohio State or Kentucky, neither of which are in his top three. And J. Randle, who as of late, is being recruited by Duke. He's teammates with J. Peters (2012 KU signee), but is also teammates with Duke oral commit, Matt Jones (2013). Although he says he is still undecided, Randle's comments seem to indicate he is leaning to Duke.

Finally: Hope that Jesse Newell will be back to post his pregame banter for the Long Beach State game. Missed his predictions for the USF game.

Jim Roth 8 years, 2 months ago

And where exactly did LeBron James go to college?

Joe Baker 8 years, 2 months ago

James is a moron. He has no business giving advice. The bad thing is, these kids listen to every word he says.

Joe Baker 8 years, 2 months ago

I just read the article and James does clarify his suggestion with this...

“The advice I would give Chris Walker is to follow his heart and go where he believes he can help the program and they can give him a great education,” James told

This is fair advice but he should've said this from the beginning than throwing out his largely biased choices.

Sam Constance 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't know how much trust I can put in a kid who thinks it's wise idea to ask the advice of a person who has absolutely no reference point for the college experience on where he should go to college.

And seriously, Ohio State or Kentucky?

Ohio State's an obvious one, with James being an Akron kid. But the "or Kentucky" part of that advice has me wondering. It's things like this that contribute to Calipari's shady reputation. Nothing that is against the rules occurred here, but it's well-documented that Lebron has ties to Calipari and Worldwide Wes. And given the fact that James clarified his original statement, I think it's entirely plausible that James answered "or Kentucky" out of habit, likely because Calipari tells him:

"Don't just offer it up unsolicited, but anytime you are asked for your opinion on where a prospect should go to school, find a way to work Kentucky into the conversation. Thanks pal!"

BCRavenJHawkfan 8 years, 2 months ago

Oh, and this kid's contact with James is okay by NCAA standards but yet they can rule on KU recruits academic status.

Hail_To_Thee 8 years, 2 months ago

Lebrons comment just earned him another $50,000 pay check from Calimari.

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

SShhh! Don't tell anybody. That's a hush-hush, between two parties.

Purely fictitious. No malice intended.

Alex Wishart 8 years, 2 months ago

This will be the first time that i let my gf root for her alma mater and not mine. i might have to make the drive down to the LBC to watch the game at Legends.

hdotk 8 years, 2 months ago

We both know that marriage wont last long.

Lash 8 years, 2 months ago

Aren't there any smarter girls out there?

KansasComet 8 years, 2 months ago

Elijah's shots will start to fall. I would like to see him get to the basket more. He is an incredible finisher at the rim, and needs to take advantage of his leaping skills. You can't teach hops. Not really worried about him, because he can shoot.

Joe Baker 8 years, 2 months ago

I really hope EJ, KY and Teahan's shots improve by league play. I would like to see Tharpe's shot and defensive skills improve too. I hope TT becomes more consistent each game.

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago


Team going deep into The Canal 2nite. Stop.

4 LBSU seniors = recipe 4 KU disaster, Stop.

Unless KU defense = wreak havoc. Stop.

EJ = hot. Stop.

Withey scores 12. Stop.

And TOs - 3 = strips. Stop.

Expect enemy aggression. Stop.

High mobility, but hand to hand combat. Stop.

Jayhawk nation depending on you. Stop.

No more reinforcements till next season. Stop.

Hold Allen Field House all costs. Stop.

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Ah, for the good ol' internet. In the past, Western Union would have eaten up those messages and put you in debt, Jaybate. :-?

Bion Ostrander 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree, EJ needs to stop settling for 3's and take it to the cup and finish. For a person with his athleticism its a waste to fire spot up 3 pointers, any guard can do that. He needs to drive it and dish or score like Tyshawn.

I'm trying not to look ahead also, but just a few Buknuts stats....Ohio State will have played 9 games at home and no games on the road when they face KU, they are not road tested. I don't think they have seen a place like Allen in a long while and I think it will be rockin. Ohio State has a week off before it plays KU, not sure if that is good or bad for KU.

KU needs to play great against LBS tonite and move towards that goal of beating OSU on Saturday.

Joe Baker 8 years, 2 months ago

We know he can and will take it to the rim. I think he's really spreading his wings and learning what he can do. He'll get in a groove and learn when to stop and pop or drive.

I'd rather have him under control than out of control.

Unfortunately, EJ is a rhythm shooter. Once he finds a rhythm, he's lights out. I really think EJ and TT need to lock down teams. I'd like to see them play much like Mario and Robinson on the D end. The crazy thing is, they both have the potential to be Mario/RussRob type defensive players because they are as quick. They need to read players' passes and start picking pockets.

NH_JHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I was at that Long Beach St. game in 1993. In terms of being stunned, that game probably ranks as the 2nd worst loss during my time at KU with the 1st being the loss to UTEP in the 2nd round of the NCAA tourney in March 1992. Ouch! 1993 was a great year overall though as KU knocked out the almighty Bobby Knight led Indiana Hoosiers in the Elite 8 only to lose to Dean and UNC in the FF. Man, how time flies!

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

"How About a Hi-Lo/Dribble Drive Motion Fusion?"

All wing men in the hi-lo offense face the same problem in the three point era, when there are good big men in their offense. The big men are the highest percentage part of the offense. Those big men work best when they are most isolated on their defender and when there is least congestion. Those big men are also tall and strong and so most capable of finishing under the XTReme Fouling of our era.

Everyone, big, or little, that gets into the paint gets hammered. So a big is much more likely to be able to finish during the stretches when the refs are not calling fouls, and has a better chance for a make and a FT, when FTs are being called, than a wing penetrating. Used to not be so, but athleticism on the wing is now much less rewarded by the foul calling regime of today.

Further, penetration from either wing collapses the defense, with no one to kick back out to unless:

a) the post steps out, which makes no sense;

b) the point guard rotates to the wing where the wing man just drove from, in which case there is no safety man out front for transition; or

c) the penetrator throws cross court, which is pop tart awaiting baking.

The best thing for a wing to do in the hi-lo offense in the XTReme Fouling Trey Era is to stay on the trey stripe and take four looks a game. make two, and so stretch the defense so the bigs have no fronting by sagging defenders ball side, minimal congestion, and frequent isolations (which eventually force the opposing team to bring backside double teaming, which frees up a dish to the other big).

Everything good happens, when wings don't slash and shoot two of four from trifectaville.

And even when they over guard the trey stripe, and slashing yields a few quick buckets, the hi-lo offense is taken out of its optimal strategy and tends to sputter, the bigs stop getting touches, and the offense soon spins out of rhythm. Momentum is lost. Time has to be called. The coach has to tell the team to "run the offense again," and start trying to rebuild momentum.

On a cold night, the worst solution is wing driving, because there is sagging and only one available dish usually that yields a good look, and that is to the big nearest the driver.

The best solution is what Self always does: the point drive and dish. Why? Because the point drive has not one, but two bigs to choose between dishing, plus not one but two wings to kick out to.

But once they know the point drive is the preferred option, the defense takes the lanes out front away, and so gives you the wing drive.

The wing drive works, but it makes your hi-lo sputter and stop, and keeps your bigs from getting good, uncongested looks.

This is when you should switch to pick'n'roll, and some ball screen/dribble drive motions sets, which is exactly what Self has done.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 2 months ago


Did you watch John Wall? Derek Rose? or Austin Rivers in Maui?

Athleticism on the wing is still the most valuable commodity in college basketball. Guys that can get to the rim consistently tend to get the benifit of the doubt when it comes to foul calls.

Your correct though in your ascertation that guard penetration does not fit well into the Hi-Lo system. thats part of the reason why i beleive Selby underperformed(among many things) and part of the reason i beleive Self has struggled to land top backcourt talent.

With the exception of langford, who wasn't his recruit, Self has never had a guy on his roster whom he would give the ball to on the wing and essentially say "everybody clear out and let him go to work". Personally i dont have a problem with that. I think basketball is a more astetically appealing game when its played through the post.

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

Self's argument would be that the likes of Sherron, Wall, Rose and Rivers at the point, can have the ball all the time regardless of whom they play for. Certainly Self gave the ball to Sherron and said go make 15 plays a game minimum.

I think we may soon be about to see Self say something similar to Tyshawn, if Tyshawn can hold down the TOs.

But at the wing? In the hi-lo?

No, the slashing dog just won't hunt...not in the age of XTReme Fouling.

I'm pretty sure Self's response would be point guards can slash, but wing slashers haven't won a ring since, well, since I don't know when. Certainly not the last 5 years that I can think of.

Ball screening in the Dribble Drive Motion sometimes puts Wall, and Rose out on the wing to come off ball screens, but Self would surely point out that they could not win rings doing it.

Self tried putting Sherron out on the wing to do his thing, and Selby was supposed to be a wing point, but it turned out that even when he was healthy, wing point slashing did not mix well with hi-lo bigs.

And remember Self tried quite a few clear outs for Xavier in the hi-lo scheme, but except for the KU KSU game, it never worked very well for X either. And X was a high draft choice.

The forward drive is such a fundamental of basketball, there has to be some way to make it work again.

I always go back to Wooden's solution.

With the Wicks/Rowe/Patterson team he just put Patterson at high post all the time, put two guards out front, and gave Wicks and Rowe the wings. It was a strange offense, but Wicks and Rowe just endlessly shredded defenders and whenever either drove from either side of the lane, if things closed up, they had a quick kick out to either a guard 23 feet out to once side or the other of centerline, or a to Patterson 22 feet out at centerline.

It is not the right offense for this KU team, because Jeff really can't put the ball on the deck and drive it, but, holy cow, is it a sweet offensive set if you have a Wicks and Rowe type combo.

But I digress.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 2 months ago

Wall and Rose were bad examples because, as you pointed out, they both played the point. I was only referencing them as recent examples of talented back court players getting favorable foul calls.

I'll have to plead ignorance on your wooden reference. He was before my time and although i respect the man and all his contributions to basketball, i know little about him other than what i read from the mass media.

KGphoto 8 years, 2 months ago

John Wall and Derek Rose are point guards, which plays right into jb's "point drive and dish" theory.

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

But going to these offenses moves your bigs out 20-25 feet from the hoop and unless you've got some good shooting bigs, it is just an exercise in giving up any hope for a high percentage shot, unless you have your wings slash to the iron.

Great, you say. We've got great slashers in TT, EJ and Trav. But these guys haven't proven they can ding it from 25 feet off the ball screen, or off the pick, and so the defenses are sagging and clogging to cut off their slashing lanes.

In the XTreme Fouling Trey Era, there is no substitute for shooting 40% from trey.

Shoot less outside and the clogging and butchery inside tanks your inside scoring efficiency in the hi-lo.

Shoot more and then the defense has to come out to get you and you feed your good bigs, who are isolated and get either 2 or3 point plays.

Wing slash and get a couple buckets, but then the offense sputters to a stop.

This is why if you can't get good bigs, you play the Princeton, because to play hi-lo means you'll never have a efficient inside scoring game regardless.

Further, if you can get the good bigs, but not the trey shooters, you need to think long and hard about resorting to XTReme Muscle and some kind of a motion offense like what Huggo Muggo runs, or even what Roy runs.

The above also implies why Cal has chosen the dribble drive motion offense.

He's got the studs inside. He's got the long and athletics outside that can shoot, but they are only there a year, so they don't have time to learn multiple sets, i.e., Self's thick play book.

But I suspect the dribble drive motion offense has one more attraction to Cal.

On a hot trey night, there is a lot of dribble off the ball screen and gun down the trey, or slash to the iron.

On a cold trey night, there is a lot of motion and back picking that can be resorted to.

The team that manages to learn to run both the hi-lo and the dribble drive motion offense, or the coach that learned to fuse these offenses is likely to become the next "great innovator" of college basketball offenses.

How about a Hi-Lo/Dribble Drive Motion fusion?

I think Self is already in the early stages of trying this out with the occasional ball screening outside that we saw a very few times last season, and that he has shown a few more times this season.

The Dribble Drive Motion Offense runs contrary to Self's deepest held beliefs about offense.

He could never switch to it in a million years.

But his protean mind embraces A and B, like most person's minds embrace A or B.

Self has to know that all roads to a ring now not only run through Durham, Chapel Hill, and Storrs, but Lexington, too.

If he wants to keep playing it anyway they want, he's got to integrate some Dribble Drive Motion.

And the good news is: when the trey shooting tanks, there is some motion in the Dribble Drive.

Go, Bill, go!!!

Robert Murphy 8 years, 2 months ago

KU must recruit better shooters which it appears they are doing, with three very good ones on the court next year. Most of the current crop like Morningstar and Reed the year before are going to fail from three under pressure. Also, Bob Knight keeps talking about more fakes from the parameter which should result in more wing men shooting foul shots. One of the best things for our current team is our foul shooting, you actually think they might make it, even two in a row, god forbid. Only through better talent can KU expect to win national titles.

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

Interesting points.

First, Knight has always been queer for originating the offense out of the 3. And he likes faking out of that 3, because it forces the whole defense to respond, then however it responds, the 3 chooses to either really drive, go up and shoot, or feed the post, or if nothing opens, reverse out to the point, and cut baseline to come off a screen off the opposite side.

Second, all outside shooters fail. It happens. If you look at every NCAA championship the last 20 years you will find a long ball shooter that fails on the losing team. They because of an off night, or they fail because of a matchup disadvantage. It contradicts fact to suggest that Brady and Tyrel fail when they get deep in the tournament. They won 30+ games two seasons in a row. They played against and beat many top teams with huge talent during the course of the season. If you look back at the losing team in the NCAA championship you will see all manner of body morphologies have failed in the big game. By your logic, you would never want John Wall, or Derek Rose on your team, because they failed massively in the tourney. Derek Rose got shut down by Sherron Collins for god's sakes. But of course you don't say you don't want a Derek Rose, or a John Wall, because he failed, because Derek Rose conforms to your opinion about what a point guard ought to look like. But the fact is: all manner of body morphologies have won the ring game, and all manner of body morphologies have lost the ring game. The 3 man on Floridas two straight ring teams was virtually identical to both Tyrel and Brady, probably not even as athletic as they were. I'm not trying to argue with you here. I'm trying to lay out the facts and say this is what they tell me, and what they tell me is refuting what you are saying about guys like Brady and Tyrel. 40% shooters fail. But they also succeed too. It depends on the night.

Third, I do agree with you that more talent is always better than less talent, if it is talent that fits into the scheme of how you want to play the game.

Fourth, and last, I agree that only through more talent can KU "expect" to win a ring. But only through quite a bit of luck can they actually win the ring. And because of luck, the most talented team often does not win the NCAA ring...and that's a fact. KU's '88 team was not the most talented team in that tournament. I would even argue that the '08 team was probably not as deep and talented as the UNC team they beat in the Semis, though I could argue that either way for a fee. :-)

Any way, as always, it was great to read your take and I do believe Self sides with you; that's why he spends so much time on the road.

Robert Murphy 8 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. It's always a pleasure.

shinguard 8 years, 2 months ago

While I like hearing the quotes from TT (it shows he is really trying to be a leader out there), I can't help but think that it is a bit too early in the season to be calling EJ and Jeff out like that.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

Yea, TT had one good game and suddenly he's the rock of the team.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

True, he's had more than 1 good game. I agree with shinguard that his comments towards EJ were kinda harsh, especially considering the fans patience with TT.

Joe Baker 8 years, 2 months ago

Give him some credit. I've thrown some criticism his way over the last few years. If he's ready to step up and be accounted, has confidence, then let him.

Step up TT, be accounted and let it all hang out. This is your team. You are the senior with the most big game experience.

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 2 months ago

I thought the funniest thing he said was "“I think he’s not all the way in tune all the time,” since that is the most common criticism one hears about TT. Self seems to think EJ he gets too down on himself when he isn't hitting, and it affects the rest of his game. I sure thought I could see it in his body language in the last game.

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 2 months ago

Should have taken out "he" when I substituted EJ. Whoops!

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

This was the best post I have read in awhile.

And I believe TT is trying to figure out how to be the daddy and it is coming kind of slowly.

But the good news is everything has always kind of come slowly for Tyshawn, but it always comes.

And I do believe that come March, Tyshawn Taylor is going to develop into one of KU's most accomplished PGs...and in a positive way. :-)

What I like about TT is this: he just keeps coming through all of his flaws. And everything he has had to get better at he has eventually, almost at the point that everyone has given up on him, has turned the corner and nailed down another piece of the job.

I like to think of TT as an athlete with off the charts abilities with a lot of psychological and experience issues to work through. There is no doubt in my mind that after learning about his relationship with his mother that he is a terrific person. But terrific people with a lot of talent often have a lot of dynamics to work through, too. He has had a lot, but he just keeps learning to do the next thing. In this regard, he has same admirable "get better" ability that Tyrel had, but TT did not grow up with a coach for a father, who taught him the right way to do everything on a floor from the beginning. So despite having way more talent than Tyrel had in most regards, TT has had way more basics and fundamentals emotionally, psychologically and technically to work through.

But instead of applauding him for working through them about as methodically as a human could possibly do over the last 4 years, people continue to focus on what he is still not doing.

I don't blame them sometimes, because he is so good and so tantalizingly close to becoming an over the top player that I just want him to get there now.

But in the old days before everyone jumped to the pros early, back when everyone was expected to stay and get better for four years, back in those days it was very common to see most guys not finally blossom until second semester of their senior years.

I suspect this is what we will see with TT.

But regardless, yours was a great post pinpointing perhaps the next big step this 54% trey shooting, second year point guard has to take.

And I believe he will.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

I've been somewhat disappointed in EJ & Releford's play so far... our offense needs work overall.

Joe Baker 8 years, 2 months ago

hawinator- I get your concern and hear your comments but you are bordering on being overly negative. I too have high hopes for Rel. He is coming on nicely with each game. Both these guys need to learn how to improvise when their treys are off. Rel did a fair job in the last game by driving or hitting short 10-15' jumpers when possible.

They have to let the game come to them. We've all seen what happens when they force a their games. It gets really ugly.

I do believe they are hesitant with their shooting. I beileve Self has pretty much given the shooters green lights to "shoot more", when they are open.

Sam Constance 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't know if Releford was "improvising when [his] treys were off". He backed away from taking three pretty wide-open long-range shots in the first half. It's like he was mentally affected by the fact that no one else on the team could hit the water shooting at the ocean in that game.

He ended up 1-2 on the game, so in my opinion, Releford was guilty of not being aggressive enough. Like it or not, he is one of our three (four if you count TT) primary distance shooters, along with EJ and Treyhan. He can't be passing up wide-open looks from deep, especially when part of Self's offense is predicated on getting (and taking, and making) open looks from three. Doing that messes up the offensive rhythm of the entire team. If I remember correctly, all three possessions where he passed up an open shot ended in a turnover by Kansas.

In terms of the overall quality of play from EJ and Releford, I will withhold final judgement until we get a handful of games into the conference season. This is their first year in this new role and it will take some time to adjust and reach their full (or close to full) potential.

HawksWin 8 years, 2 months ago

Can't access ESPNU for tonite's game. Any idea where I can go online to watch besides the erratic and crazy iCal? Thanks bunch.

notigers4me 8 years, 2 months ago

The game is on ESPN3 at 8:00 ish. That's where I will be watching. For the record this is TT's team and he needs to be calling out the boys for under achieving.

REHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Hawks to Rock tonight: T-Rob and T-Han.

dylans 8 years, 2 months ago

Teahan -- I initially thought of tyler hansborough Yuck

RockChalk26 8 years, 2 months ago

On that note. I don't like how some on this forum refer to Kevin Young as KY. Those initials just strike me the wrong way.

John Boyle 8 years, 2 months ago

I believe he was referring to the state abbreviation for Kentucky. Maybe you knew that and were just trying to be funny, in that case ha ha.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 2 months ago

1] Long Beach State did us a favor by beating Pitt.....they sure won't sneak up on us.

2] I am really pleased with Jeff's performances this year. All conference?...No . Factor to be reckoned with in the games?.....Absolutely. Just wait till next year!!

3] Not making excuses for TT but sometimes when he drives into the lane, everybody is watching him and no one is moving to give him some passing options.

4] I am absolutely sure we can make it very competitive Saturday, but I am also absolutely sure that, at this stage of the season and if OSU plays to it's capacity, we have very little chance of winning.....March may be different.

5] I am surprised we are relegated to ESPNU with two storied franchises, a #2 and a #13 going head to head in the best venue in the country..and on a Saturday afternoon.

Nothing beat going to a Saturday night Kansas game then walking to Joe's Donuts to celebrate!! I was a lot younger then too:)

Score: Kansas 80 LBSU 68

NH_JHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Oakville -

5 - The KU - Ohio St. game is on ESPN Flagship not ESPNU. Tonight's game is on ESPNU (or ESPN 3 online for those of us who dont get ESPNU)

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

Feeling your oats tonight, eh, Oak?

I don't have such a positive feeling.

I think they may have to bite and scratch for this one...if they get it.

If they get hot from trey as a team, then your prediction makes sense, but...

These guys are so streaky and out of synch right now, I don't know if they can all shoot 40 percent from trey right now.

BCRavenJHawkfan 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm pretty sure Self has been whispering in Robinson's and Taylor's ear: "VCU, VCU".

Tony Bandle 8 years, 2 months ago

I just read on rivals .com that Kansas has moved up to #12 in the 2012 class rankings and that Anrio has signed on along with Ellis, White, Lucas and Peters.

Can anyone verify this????

hdotk 8 years, 2 months ago

Withey and Robinson have been the two guys i've been consistently impressed by. And i'm starting to trust TT more and more.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

I've got some land I could sell ya .. perfect location. I promise.

hdotk 8 years, 2 months ago

Ha I know Tyshawn has proven to be untrustworthy in the past because of his inconsistency but Self trusts him, and it been 4 years, you;d think he'd turn the corner eventually, for his sake.

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Withey and TRob, at the freethrow line, have helped me get through some of the more frustrating games so far this season.

TT has shown he has the abilities and speed. The consistency just hasn' t been there, yet. Without another seasoned wagonmaster to control this team of wild horses on the court, Self has to stay the course with him. Hopefully, Tharpe can ride shotgun enough times to learn how to take the reins when it becomes necessary. Maybe, if the team travels the course enough times, they'll learn on their own how to stay on track, and not end up in too many ditches or, during tourney time, over the first cliff that comes along.

As for Johnson (all of our trey shooters for that matter), I wish he would drive a few times to force the defensive man to back up a step, thus freeing up some space to shoot the 3. I think that's one reason why TT has had better luck with his 3's. The defense has had to honor his ability to drive by them.

KGphoto 8 years, 2 months ago

Man! Missouri is getting North Carolina type love from the AP. They jumped 3 more spots into the top 10 after beating nobody, and Carolina jumped from 5 to 4 after losing to Kentucky.

If Carolina keeps losing like this, they'll be number one again by Christmas.

And what's going on with Missouri? They've jumped 11 spots in 2 weeks basically for beating Cal.

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

They are in the SEC now. The SEC gets suck.

REHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Tigers should get a real test at 6 p.m. tonight vs. Villanova. Mizzou on a real tear. Check Big 12 stats to take a look at what the Tigers are doing. Nothing approaching our pre-conference schedule, but they look terrific vs. the people they have played. Rebounding is just about their only visible weakness. I'm still miffed about Villanova crowd shrieking OVERRATED at Miles and Simien in our loss to them a few years ago. Hope Mizzou stomps them...and then we stomp Mizzou 2 or 3 times this season to bid them fond adieu. I'm a MO resident, but have convinced my bloodline to burn all their Tiger gear after the announcement of league defection.

rockchalkchalkin23 8 years, 2 months ago


A leader does what he has to do but knows he can't do it all by himself. Sherron's NBA stock would have been(would be) higher if he used what he had, instead of feeling like he had to do it all. Lebron James is also affected by this. No one doubts your talent Ty.

I've noticed you point to and complain to your teammates after you make a mistake. I would alter that. Don't tell them what they did wrong, tell them what you wanted to happen or take blame for the mistake. They will respect you as their leader and still be confident in themselves. Blaming them will make the situation worse, guaranteed. Enjoy playing with these guys, they will still be here next year.

rockchalkchalkin23 8 years, 2 months ago


Your strongest skill is passing, then driving, then shooting the 3. I know you like hitting the trey, but do what's best for the team, it's best for you too. The offense is designed to create an unforced open shot and for any man to take it or make a play when he has the opportunity. If you and Ty bring your A game every night, you are one of the best backcourts in the country. The best are solid at both ends of the court.

rockchalkchalkin23 8 years, 2 months ago


I think you are worried about coaches tongue lashings. Fortunately, he can't not play you this year. There is no question you have game. However, you being unsure and not wanting a lashing causes you to think instead of just doing what you do. Your game is slashing up the defense. You are smooth and squeeze through the tightest spaces and leave it softly off the glass. As long as you play with smart aggression, coaches lashings will be minimal.

REHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Jesse, we sure do miss yer Hawk to Rawk byline these past two games. Hope you are alive and kicking.

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

+100 Yes, Jesse! Where is you hiding, you wily cwitter? The Jayhawk Nation is being driven cwazy guessing what's going to happen without your intelligent, pregame, diagnostic analysis.

Wock Chalk Jayhawk! See? Somebody help me. My brain needs mendin'.

rockchalkchalkin23 8 years, 2 months ago


Your energy and talent are plenty to change any game you play in. Don't think you're not doing enough if you have already brought these two things to the court.

I know they hammer you and trash talk on the court, but you have to know that this is going to happen. They want to get you off your game and make this about ego and who can do what in this game. Don't let them push you around, but at the same time don't push back. I know it's frustrating, but you don't have to prove individually that you can whoop them. Stay the course, play your game and anytime they push you or try and get you of course your response should be SCOREBOARD. You will eventually get them off their game.

rockchalkchalkin23 8 years, 2 months ago


You're good when you're confident. You're confident when you're fired up. Ask the guys to find a way to get you fired up before the game. I'm sure they can come up with a consistent way to do that.

BillSelf4Prez 8 years, 2 months ago

guys, i have been jinxing our opponents. All last week i wore a USF sweatshirt to school. Yesterday i wore an Ohio State shirt. Hopefully it works again.

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Couldn't find a Long Beach T-shirt, eh?

Brian Conrad 8 years, 2 months ago

EJ and Tyshawn had better understand the lazy LAZY one hand passes have to stop . Coach self should put these guys in gym for an hour by themselves JUST two hand passing!!! RELEFORD can put both hands on ball !!! THYSHAWN WISE UP you play really hard then lazy turnover .. PASS not turnover !!!

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Since Jesse hasn't shown up, end of game analysis for KU's 88 to 80 win over Long Beach State:

Real nail-biter. Just how many times will our guards turn it over, without losing the game?

That, and hoping Withey would get just one teensy little block more, and end with a triple-double during a regular season game.

"Hawk to Rock" - Gee, that's tough. It's a tossup between TRob's top scorer and rebounder, and Withey with his almost triple double.

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Oops. Missed Jesse's posts during and after the game under the schedule at the top of the board. Was looking for it as a separate on the sideboard.

REHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

We whipped a good experienced team and coach tonight. Robinson, Withey, Conner looked good; Releford not bad. Elijah appears to play in the flow much better when Tyshawn is on the bench. Team produces a very different look without Tyshawn on the floor. Gotta take control over these turnovers. Lazy passes a real blight. The TT/EJ backcourt not likely to make cover of SI this season. Withey within a hair of triple double; solid game; fortunate those elbows didn't turn costly heading down the stretch. Jeff had averaged 2 blocks per contest. Appears to have responded to his coach's prompting. Now we turn attention to the Sat. Buckeye game. Rock Chalk!

WilburNether 8 years, 2 months ago

Judging by the way the second half went last night, I'd say the players did not listen to their coach.

Commenting has been disabled for this item.