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Wednesday, August 31, 2011

Jayhawks recall painful memories of loss to NDSU

Kansas University tight end Tim Biere (86) attempts to make a catch as he's covered by North Dakota State defenders Chad Wilson (45) and Cyrus Lemon in this Sept. 4, 2010 file photo at Memorial Stadium. The Jayhawks lost the infamous game, 6-3, in their season opener last season. The stunning defeat is still fresh on the minds of many current KU players.

Kansas University tight end Tim Biere (86) attempts to make a catch as he's covered by North Dakota State defenders Chad Wilson (45) and Cyrus Lemon in this Sept. 4, 2010 file photo at Memorial Stadium. The Jayhawks lost the infamous game, 6-3, in their season opener last season. The stunning defeat is still fresh on the minds of many current KU players.

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Toben Opurum takes pride in leadership duties

Junior Toben Opurum was selected among his teammates as captain along with three seniors.

KU football receivers, offensive linemen go through pre-practice drills

Kansas football receivers and offensive linemen go through pre-practice drills on Tuesday, Aug. 30, four days before the team's season-opener against McNeese State.

At least six freshmen could play vs. McNeese State

Kansas head football coach Turner Gill said anywhere from six to 10 freshmen could get playing time against McNeese State in KU's 2011 season opener.

It’s been 361 days since the Kansas University football team opened the Turner Gill era with a loss to North Dakota State in front of a stunned Memorial Stadium crowd.

To many, the memory of the 6-3 setback remains fresh.

To the players who were there that night — in uniform, on the field — just talking about the game is tough to do in specific terms. Senior tight end Tim Biere, who played what he called one of the worst games of his life in the loss, refers to it only vaguely.

“I had a heck of a game that game,” said Biere, never mentioning the name of the opponent. “We’ll be sure to remember that game from last year. It’s kind of the same situation to an extent.”

The it, in this case, is KU’s season opener against McNeese State, slated for 6 p.m. Saturday at the same stadium where the Jayhawks were the victims of one of the worst losses in program history. The reason Biere referenced North Dakota State when looking ahead to Saturday’s matchup with McNeese State was because, like the Bison, the Cowboys come to Lawrence wearing the label of FCS opponent, one of the most dangerous tags any FBS program can see early in the season.

It’s not that the Jayhawks, or any other BCS conference squad, should be worried that they can’t compete with teams from the division formerly known as I-AA. It’s that playing those teams presents a lose-lose scenario just about every time. Win and it’s no big deal. You did what you were supposed to. But lose? Well, then people will be talking about that game for years to come.

In the days since the loss to NDSU, Gill and the Jayhawks have talked very little about it. The key, Gill has said all along, is that the team learned from the deflating feeling and pressed on, determined not to let it take place again.

“They know what has happened in the past,” Gill said Tuesday at his first weekly news conference of the season. “We talk about what you can learn from last year and how you are going to change that. More importantly, we’re talking about how we already have changed it.”

The approach appears to have worked.

“I don’t think we’ve paid too much attention to it,” said junior wide receiver Kale Pick, the starting QB in the NDSU game. “It’s obviously in our players’ heads. I think the best thing is we used it as motivation in the offseason. I think that’s the best thing that came from it, and it may have helped us out in the long run.”

Added this year’s starting quarterback, sophomore Jordan Webb: “I think we learned that we don’t have a suit of armor that’s gonna protect us from a I-AA team. It doesn’t matter who you’re playing, at this level you gotta come out ready to play. You can’t wait until it’s the second or third game to get things kick-started.”

While it’s obvious that those who played in the loss felt the sting, those who didn’t were equally affected. That includes junior Toben Opurum, a former running back who suited up but did not play in last year’s opener.

“That loss, I kind of took it to heart more than anybody else because I didn’t get a chance to step on the field and play,” said Opurum, who revealed Tuesday that he considered transferring after being moved to defense. “They were back and forth on whether to red-shirt me.”

Darius Willis, a transfer from Buffalo who sat out all of 2010 in accordance with NCAA transfer rules but was able to practice, remembers well the feeling the Jayhawks had heading into the North Dakota State game. He said the vibe is completely different this season.

“You can tell there’s more focus,” he said. “Everybody is driving to be where they need to be and doing the right things at the right time. No one is letting distractions come into play.”

By all accounts, McNeese State has more talent, speed and big-game experience than North Dakota State brought to Lawrence a year ago.

“I can’t speak for their defense,” said KU defensive coordinator Vic Shealy. “But their offense looks more like a Div. I, major conference athletic talent.”

Combine the painful memories of last year’s devastation with the utmost respect for a quality opponent and it’s easy to see why the Jayhawks have put so much emphasis on this year’s opener.

“Nobody wants a repeat of the failures we had last season,” Opurum said. “We want to go out there aggressive and with confidence. We gotta hit ’em first.”

Added senior cornerback Isiah Barfield: “(Falling to NDSU) was a huge setback on our season, losing the first game of the year and we gotta come out more focused and ready to play so we can get the first ‘W’ right away.”

Comments

jhawkrulz 3 years ago

I've said it before and I still think it.

If HCTG loses again to a DII (FCS or whatever), he needs to walk away.

Yep it is a lose-lose situation for him. This is the one game this year that can not be a loss.

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Bill Kackley 3 years ago

jhawkfan 162515 I don't know how you can call yourself a fan. KSU or MU maybe.

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nuleafjhawk 3 years ago

AtlJaybird - I appreciate your response. Some people (myself included, sometimes) take this stuff WAY too seriously and I am glad you can take a deep breath and refrain from being crazy, while still making your point. Kudos my friend.

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KGphoto 3 years ago

Funny stuff fan #162515.

So many Gill haters lack that certain je ne sais quoi, but your usage of poignant terms like "ignoramus", "big-time" and "screw a cow" have really set the tone for a new generation of hate.

Keep it up, I can't get enough.

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KGphoto 3 years ago

Uh oh! That's gonna get removed.

I said "bleep a cow".

Not my words, fan #162515 said it. I was just marveling at the usage.

For some reason this site doesn't like the word that represents what you would do with a screwdriver.

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Ron Prichard 3 years ago

Funny stuff, KG. I laughed at both of these. In fact, I stole your line in a post further down. No infringement intended.

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Dirk Medema 3 years ago

"all of Mark Mangino's work in making us nationally relevant"

Like running off players and staff at an alarming rate, the best parts of the best recruiting classes that were busts, or the 7 game losing streak and totally losing communication with your team leader/QB in that amazingly dysfunctional season.

I'm not excited about what happened last year or the way that it happened, but to refer to the '09 team as nationally relevant is dillusional regardless of which camp you're in.

At the very least, Gill deserves to have a chance with his players, and not the carnage left by MM. And you can talk about recruiting classes all you want to make it appear that there were players for Gill to work with, but the reality is that 25%, and most of the top rated 25% were gone last year. This is a new year.

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Andy Tweedy 3 years ago

I figured if I laid low long enough, someone would do the work for me. +1

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Cmill1221 3 years ago

You got to be kidding me. Because this guy looks at REAL On the field results and using logic has decided that he doesn't like TG as a coach that makes him a ksu or mu fan. Like me all he wants is whats best for KU and TG is not the answer. TG is to KU what Ron prince was to ksu and quin snyder was to mu. If he loses Saturday there is no excuse he needs to go!

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William James 3 years ago

Ron Prince never lost to an FCS school. He beat Texas twice when they were ranked in the Top 10, and got KSU to a bowl game in his first year. How dare you compare him to Turner Gill.

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sevenyearhawk 3 years ago

Very true, mr. fabio ... very true.

Turner couldn't hold Scary Smart's jock.

wow, never thought I'd ever type something like that!

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Larry Smith 3 years ago

That makes the fact that the Great Mangino could never win against the south teams that much worse. 4 wins in 8 years, while Scary Smart won 5 times in 3 years. I guess by this logic, Mangino could not hold Prince's jock.

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Kirk 3 years ago

Mangino's road wins against Texas A&M and Oklahoma State look kinda good-ish these days. Maybe it's just me.

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vd 3 years ago

Two wins on the road against power houses. Wait, make that 2 wins against losing, bad teams.

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Ethan Berger 3 years ago

well because they are good now. I went to the A&M game, and they were badddd.

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stevemize 3 years ago

And if he wins, you shut up? Just asking. I think KU wins somewhere in the ballpark of 38-14. I believe we have improved in overall talent and skill. Recruiting is doing well. We prolly won't win more games than last year, however, we stay closer in games, don't quit and keep moving forward for next year.

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Cmill1221 3 years ago

If he wins I will admit I was wrong. The real question is when he loses the next 4 years in a row will you?

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yates33333 3 years ago

I like your optimism. Unfortunately, I think it is unfounded. I hope Gill is a better coach than I think he is. Unfortunately, I don't believe he can make it in this league.

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gardenjay 3 years ago

I like your optimism, and I am really looking forward to this season. :)

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chadhawk512 3 years ago

+1. Liked everything about this post! And I agree.

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Chris Bailey 3 years ago

With ya I agree as well +2

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Ron Prichard 3 years ago

Nice post, Atl, even though it lacks that certain je ne sais quoi of "screw a cow."

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Nick Cole 3 years ago

So ATL, you gonna be @ the game against GA Tech? I already got my tix and hotel. Driving up from Tampa Friday night. Alumni tailgate on Sat. Then celebration of our victory Sat night. Now there is some optimism for ya fools.

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Robert Brock 3 years ago

I am more optimistic. I have us winning two games...but looking better and setting up a good third season under Turner Gill.

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texashawk10 3 years ago

So you have $10+ million lying around to fire Gill and his staff and bring in a new staff and probably $15 million if you want to convince a good coach to come to a school that is generally considered among the 5-10 worst BCS programs in the country historically that only gave the previous coach 2 years to turn around a program. Good luck with that with dumbass. I have no problem questioning your fanhood because you clearly don't have the best interest of KU football in mind, only YOUR best interests for KU football.

If bringing back someone who barely won 1/3 of his conference games is your vision of success, you have very low standards for success. I personally didn't think Gill was the best hire, but I am choosing to support him because if he succeeds, that means KU football succeeds and if you don't want to see Gill succeed, then you don't want to see KU football succeed.

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Mike Kendall 3 years ago

Atlanta---I kind of agree with you. McNeese State will be receiving a lot of frustration from the Jayhawks from a year ago. Thing is, I was all over the website when the Hawks lost to North Dakota State. It is over and past history now. However, if KU loses to McNeese State this Saturday, oh my gosh. Have you ever seen something blown up by nitroglycerin? That will be the situation on this website, if it happens.

I am sure when HCTG and the team puts away the Cowboys, there will be a huge gorilla lifted off their shoulders. Rock Chalk Jayhawk, go KU!

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nuleafjhawk 3 years ago

We couldn't bring back Mangino if we wanted to - and we don't. How are you going to lure him away from Ohio State? Uh - I mean Florida? Or was it USC? LSU? TCU?

Oh wait - he's not at ANY of those places! Or anywhere else either. Because he wasn't a good coach. If he was, he would have a job right now. Turner Gill is half the man Mangino was (literally) but will wind up being (AT LEAST) twice the coach he was.

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Ron Prichard 3 years ago

"Turner Gill is half the man Mangino was (literally)" Now that is funny!!

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John Boyle 3 years ago

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! I think I soiled myself. Half the man (literally). Classic.

Okay now to the more serious issue. Give Gill some time. He needs to make this program his own. You don't do that in two years. Lest ye forget, KSU's famed Bill Snyder was 1-11 his first year with the Wildcats and although KU is in somewhat better shape than KSU when Snyder got there, it was by no means at the top of the collegiate elite. Mangino's last year was a disaster. You can blame him or Perkins but it doesn't matter now. That is water under the bridge. I like Gill, and I like what he stands for. Reminds me of HCBS. Now lets see if he can go out and win like Coach Self.

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fromthatstandpoint 3 years ago

You're salivating over a coach who managed one winning season in conference in eight years and three winning season out of eight because?

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Larry Smith 3 years ago

It still bewilders me that a coach loses 2 more games than the previous regime and he has "run the program into the ground" in 1 season. That is laughable.

If Mangino had not lost very winnable games his final season as well as throwing the game against misery, he may still have a job. Personally, I think 7 losses in a row is running a program into the ground.

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Theutus 3 years ago

That's not fair at all.. At the start of his last season Perkins had already made it clear to everyone (fans,players, coaches) that he was trying to push Mangino out... Do you realize how hard that makes it for a coach to rally his team? Or to punish anyone for anything when the AD is trying to find anything to string you up for?

Mangino had a lot of faults, but that last season can hardly be considered one of them. That was Perkins mess.

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Larry Smith 3 years ago

It's completely fair. The same team that you say Mangino could not rally, won it's first five games. The downfall started at Colorado, when bad decision followed by bad decision, lost KU the game. His treatment of players after that game lost the team. His incredibly bad play calling lost the Misery game. The completely inept preperation for a terrible KSU squad lost that game. The 6 game losing streak against the south contributed as well. The fact that aside from the 07 year, Mangino only won 1 game against the south in his entire tenure here also could be looked at. An average coach that had one great year, that is what Mark Mangino was.

And yes, I do appreciate everything that Coach Mangino did for KU. But, it was time to move on.

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Ron Prichard 3 years ago

I might tend to agree with you, but how can you say it's not fair at all to make those types of assumptions about MM while people make those same sorts of assumptions about Gill? I'm not specifically saying you have made those types of arguments, but jhawkfan1234567890's comment, "I am a die-hard KU fan who despises the way Lew Perkins and Turner Gill have undone all of Mark Mangino's work in making us nationally relevant." is just the same type of comment from the other side of the fence. No real support and only marginally accurate, if at all.

I think Mangino had one great year that we all look back on and several decent years. In hindsight, I do not think that he was as bad of a coach as his last year made it look. At the same time, he was not as good a coach as the Orange Bowl year made him look. A lot of things fell our way that year. Personally, I'm not sure he was the coach we need to lead us forward. Whether or not Gill is that coach I think remains to be seen. While there was much to be disappointed about last year, I think there is a lot to be excited about moving forward. I plan on taking a wait and see approach over this year and even next year. I do expect progress in the team (although maybe not wins) this year, but next year I expect significant progress in the team AND wins.

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Theutus 3 years ago

I never said the assumptions about Gill were right... Personally I don't like Gill because he's a religious zealot who thinks telling college athletes they can't be with women past 10pm is a good idea...

But other than that, i never said losing a couple games meant anything.

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nuleafjhawk 3 years ago

I'm not sure that having morals and values and wanting to instill some discipline in a team that was badly in need of just that qualifies as "religious zealotry".

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Ethan Berger 3 years ago

yea instead lets let our players run around and do anything we want(Miami anyone)

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OKHawkFan 3 years ago

Ha ha yeah I can't stand thos religious zealots either. For instance Landry Jones (OU QB) Started a bible study where he led OU Receiver Ryan Broyles to a closer relationship to the Lord. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be making that comment it they both played for KU and were ranked #1. And yes what I said is TRUE was in Today's sports page of the Daily Oklahoman!

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truefan 3 years ago

I don't think Mangino ran the program into the ground, but I do think it is ridiculous that people think Gill did by only winning 3 games. He inherited a bad defense from Mangino minus Stuckey, Thorton, and Tharp (injury). And he lost the best 3 athletes on offense in Reesing, Meier, and Briscoe.

Now, you can argue that we should have left Opurum on offense, but that wouldn't have made a difference in any of the games we played other than NDSU. I think Sims is the better back and TO has a chance to get to the league by playing defense. The funny thing is that if we had beaten NDSU last year I bet the complaining on this board would be half of what it is now.

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stanleys 3 years ago

Gee I wonder what the Longhorn fans are saying about last season in regards to there upcoming season. They can get practically any player they want year end year out and only won 2 more games than KU did. HCTG is trying to get KU to being maybe an average team at best with mostly 2-3 stars players. Granted he has his work cut out for him but I think he'll get it done. On the other hand take a look at Texas and all they DID NOT accomplish with all the players they have. Take a look at Miami and the mess they're or LSU or USC or North Carolina??? If any schools' fans have reason to be down on there team or coaches it would have to be these. All coach Gill is trying to do is take a team that's been on the bottom and build it up THE RIGHT WAY!!! The fans need to give him a chance. Rock Chaik KU fans, let's show him 110% support.

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KGphoto 3 years ago

Fan #162515

I think a fan really should support their team, win or lose. Otherwise you are a "fair weather" fan, which really doesn't count.

I know, I know. You made all those tributes to Mr. Zero, and stuff. You must be a fan right?

Not so fast my friend! (putting on my jayhawk mascot head) Real fans give the coach the time it takes to build a program up. Real fans know this takes time. KU is gonna go bowling this year, and there's no turning back on the kind of garbage you're barfing right now.

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Chris Bailey 3 years ago

Lemme help ya! There=place their=people they're= they are. So should read the mess there or LSU... fans have reason to be down on their team or coaches... I'm not the grammer police and not trying to be an A$$ just pointing it out.

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Jim Baker 3 years ago

It is spelled "grammar"; not "grammer"...and I am not the spelling police.

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Ron Prichard 3 years ago

It is spelled "spelling" and I am not the....oh, wait...never mind.

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yates33333 3 years ago

Ha! Ha! "spelled police." ... and I am not even the police.

I really think you are clever.

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Chris Bailey 3 years ago

Yep I knew I was gonna spell something wrong posting that! Dangit! I suck without spell check. I only pointed it out as it's one of those words or 3 words that gets misused a lot. Where's the dang spell check again???

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justanotherfan 3 years ago

Hopefully this is the LAST time I have to do this.

Mark Mangino was NOT a program savior.

Mangino record by season (conference)

2002 - 2-10 (0-8) 2003 - 6-7 (3-5) 2004 - 4-7 (2-6) 2005 - 7-5 (3-5) 2006 - 6-6 (3-5) 2007 - 12-1 (7-1) 2008 - 8-5 (4-4) 2009 - 5-7 (1-7) Overall 50-48 (23-41)

Finished ranked exactly 1 time (2007). Finished with a winning overall record three times. Finished with a winning conference record ONCE.

Went 19-21 vs. the North. Went 4-20 vs. the South. Most importantly the ONLY team IN CONFERENCE that he has a winning record against was IOWA STATE. .500 against Baylor, Mizzou and KSU. Losing records against EVERYBODY ELSE.

Mangino DID NOT make KU nationally relevant beyond the 2007 season because he could not repeat that success against the stronger teams in the Big XII. During the '07 season, nationally everyone wondered if KU could have that success against Oklahoma, Texas and Tech. The next two years, KU lost to those three teams. In '08 by a combined 143-59 and in '09 by a combined 128-54. KU was not ranked at any time after the loss to Texas Tech in '08. Following the loss to OU in '09, KU was unranked.

Mangino did nothing more than tread water at KU, which would have been fine had he done that without controversy or incident, but that WAS NOT THE CASE.

Hopefully, it gets through your heads this time. Mangino DID NOT SAVE KU FOOTBALL!

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Ron Prichard 3 years ago

Fantastic post. Don't you just hate it when facts and statistics get in the way of a good argument?

As my wife would say, "Whatever, I'm still right!"

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Andy Tweedy 3 years ago

BRAVO! I'll go one step further. If it weren't for the 2007 season, I'd take Glen Mason over Mangino if you had to pick the closest thing to a program savior!

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Andy Tweedy 3 years ago

I take that back. Mason went 10-2 in 1995 and beat the crap out of a championship contending CU team IN BOULDER. I'll take him anyway, regardless of what happened in 2007!

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Kirk 3 years ago

The 10-2 season was great if you don't mind the total blowout losses to KSU and NU.

I prefer 2007

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Rick Arnoldy 3 years ago

Count the number of winning seasons before Mangino. How far back do you want to go? It gets worse.

Glen Mason
1988 Kansas 1–10 1–6 1989 Kansas 4–7 2–5 1990 Kansas 3–7–1 2–4–1
1991 Kansas 6–5 3–4 1992 Kansas 8–4 4–3 1993 Kansas 5–7 3–4 1994 Kansas 6–5 3–4 1995 Kansas 10–2 5–2 1996 Kansas 4–7 2–6

Terry Allen
1997 Kansas 5–6 3–5 T–4th (North) 1998 Kansas 4–7 1–7 T–5th (North) 1999 Kansas 5–7 3–5 4th (North) 2000 Kansas 4–7 2–6 T–5th (North) 2001 Kansas 3–8 1–7 6th (North)

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Larry Smith 3 years ago

So, what you are saying is that Terry Allen did just as well in conference during his five years as Mangino did during his first five years, Is that your point?

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John Boyle 3 years ago

I want Phog Allen back!!!

In his one year of coaching KU football they finished 5-2-1 (3-2 in the Missouri Valley Intercollegiate Athletic Association)

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Kirk 3 years ago

The weird thing is, even this diminished expression of Mangino's accomplishments sounds pretty good about now. It's all relative.

Anyhoo, losing Mangino is one thing. Replacing him with Gill (whose career accomplishments as coach more or less recap those of the fat man) is another.

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nuleafjhawk 3 years ago

justanotherfan,

That is a very well stated post, BUT, it won't make any difference to the Mangino lovers. They are not about to let the facts get in the way of their opinions. I've been trying to make the point (to no avail) that if he were such a super-duper coach, he would have a job SOMEWHERE right now.

He was good for KU at the time. He got us an Orange Bowl victory ! He got some good publicity and some bad, but publicity all the same. But he was no Vince Lombardi (or insert your favorite great coach here....................) - not by any stretch of the imagination.

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Chris Bailey 3 years ago

+2

I think everyone sees the one good season he had. We had the perfect storm that year and were very fortunate. Had we played all the big boys not sure our record would have been better than 9-3 or 8-4. Let's see what Coach Gill can do! Love the talent he's bringing in to the program. Rock Chalk!

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Mangino_Maniac 3 years ago

I couldn't agree more with you rxdoc.

And I also agree with others in terms of numbers for Mangino. I think the factor with him that can't be quantified were the intangibles, and that under him each KU game was more interesting and hopeful than those under Glen Mason, and of course Terry Allen.

Everyone seems to want it all to be black and white, and hence why people look at the numbers, and it makes sense to do so, but I think only looking at the numbers is short sighted.

I hope Turner can get the fan base excited, and the stands will be full again like they were in recent years. He brought in a very good recruiting class, and I think we'll see big improvements from last year.... I believe our running game is gonna surprise a few teams. ;-)

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Cmill1221 3 years ago

OK..... Let's look at the same stats. Bowl eligible 5 seasons. W/ a BCS Bowl win. HE TOOK US TO OUR FIRST BOWL GAME IN 10 YEARS!!! First coach to EVER take us to back to back bowl games (we won also). Manginos teams set reccords on defence and offence. He had a top 10 defenc w/ Nick Ried and Charlton Kieth, we know what his offences did w/ reesing and mier. The guy was a winner and got his teams to play their best. Put the same season by season results up there for gill. What's his reccord look like. He isn't a program saver anyware. His best season is 8 wins!!!! This guy is a loser. Give me a break. You can't possibly compare Gill to Mangino.

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Cmill1221 3 years ago

I was talking about his amazing numbers from buffalo you idiot. Or did you not know he was a head coach before he came to KU?

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Tony Bandle 3 years ago

Interesting observation:

The postings for Kansas football pale in comparision to the postings for Kansas basketball. In a way, they reflect the status of the two programs at KU.

I do feel, however, that the postings are showing improvement with quicker wit, weightier topics and more hard hitting opinions. We need to show patience as the football postings begin to catch up with the elite basketball postings.

This year, the postings may be improved, even though losing ground to basketball. This bodes well for next season and I have every confidence that the football postings will ascend to post posting season excellence sooner than later.

[Expressed with no malice and not one wit of seriousness intended :) ]

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nuleafjhawk 3 years ago

Oakville - you deflated my balloon with your disclaimer - that was a beautiful post!! I'm still smiling, even with the "spoiler". Nice job! Very witty and weighty.

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yates33333 3 years ago

OakvilleJHawk. You are absolutely correct. Several of the BB posters are genuises when discussing BB. No offense to the football posters, but they don't have anyone like Jaybate. BTW, you aren't a lightweight either.

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KGphoto 3 years ago

Speaking of The Holy Grail...

Get the feeling he's kind of lurking in the bushes right now? Piecing something together, waiting for the right moment? His presence is eerily missing.

Maybe he's just as irritated as I am with all the useless pre-season bickering and is gonna unload a whopper on game day!

Can't Wait!

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Tony Bandle 3 years ago

Thanks, yates33333..I was just trying to lighten the mood. We all want the football team to succeed, it's just with our history you walk up to the edge of an emotional precipice, not really knowing what's going to happen.

There is a chance that this team could actually go anywhere from 1-11 to 6-5

With Kansas basketball it's not a question of good or bad..it's a question of good or really good. We do have not as of yet have that luxury in football.

I am hopeful someday we will.

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Tony Bandle 3 years ago

"...do not have as of yet..." is what I meant. [my English teacher is spinning in her grave right now..sorry!!]

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John Boyle 3 years ago

She wasn't dead until she read your post. The poor grammar killed her.

(no malice intended)

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Larry Smith 3 years ago

Ahh, the old Mangino savior arguments come to the forefront. As Kirk mentions above, It all relative. It's all about how you want to look at it.

Some will point to the fact that Mangino, despite coaching 3 more games (48 total) in his first 4 years, he improved KU's win total by a grand total of 3. That's right folks......Mangino 19-29 during his first 4 years, Terry Allen 16-29 during his 4 years.

Some will look at Gill and his record at Buffalo and say he only won 20 games ( he has a losing record remember) during his 4 years there. He increased the Buffalo win total by 15 because.........Thats right folks, Buffalo won only 5 games total in the 4 years preceding Gill.

Mangino 3 more wins Gill 15 more wins

Now, I don't know if Gill is the Savior, But I do know that he has done well and succeeded at every level in every position in his life. That should mean something, and I will be supportive of what he is trying to do here. Again I will say that I am appreciative of what Mangino did here, but it was simply time to move on. It is not Gill's fault that Mangino lost games he should have won, he could never beat the teams from the South (worse than Scary Smart even), and his behavior was less than desirable. That is why he is no longer coaching. It is time for more people to support the Coach that is now on the sideline.

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Randy Bombardier 3 years ago

Good Grief, folks. Chill. Way too much negativity. MM was 2-10 his first year. Gill was 3-9. You think MM's year-one team would have jumped Georgia Tech like we did last year. No way. You think that same team could have come back against CU like we did last year. No way. We couldn't even come back in games under Mangino when we were only down 7 points. Right now that is all that you can compare. Period. Gill knows how to motivate. That should be obvious. Gill is a better recruiter. That should be obvious. Now it is time to let his coaching speak for itself as the season plays out!!!!! If this man pulls off 5 or more wins you should get off his case and get onto his bandwagon.

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texashawk10 3 years ago

Here are the stone cold facts about Mark Mangino. He was 50-48 (.510) in 8 seasons as the head coach at KU. He was 23-41 in Big 12 games (.359). He was 19-21 against the Big 12 north (.475). He was 4-20 (.167) against the Big 12 south. He was 3-16 (.157) against ranked opponents. Mark Mangino was 43-48 (.473) against FBS opponents. In scheduled non-conference games (meaning not the bowl games) Mangino was 24-6 (.800) Against all BCS conference opponents, Mangino was 27-45 (.375).

Here's what those numbers say to me. Mangino took advantage of some very weak non-conference schedules to reach some bowl games and got very lucky in one season that was a perfect storm scenario for KU because of how the schedule fell. Mangino's average record in his 8 years was 6-6 (3-5). If that's what some of you desire KU football to be, then raise your standards. I don't know if Gill will is good enough to get KU to a level where they are averaging 8+ wins a season, I just know he deserves a fair amount of time to get his players into his program and see what he can do and 5 years is a fair enough time frame.

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Randy Bombardier 3 years ago

Outstanding post and sobering stats. The last one, .375 against all FBS opponents is shocking.

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Randy Bombardier 3 years ago

Actually, the 4-20 (.167) against the South is even more shocking. Ouch.

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Ethan Berger 3 years ago

BUT HE HAD NO TALENT, MANGINO BROUGHT IS US AMAZING TALENT THAT'S WHY IN HIS LAST YEAR WE WON THE NORTH AND DIDN'T HAVE A LOSING RECORD WITH THE BEST QB AND TWO RECEIVERS IN SCHOOL HISTORY. (Sorry for the caps)

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OKHawkFan 3 years ago

Couldn't agree more. I'm tired of KU Football being Mediocre/Bad for so many years. Mangino had one Great season as you so clearly stated and the schedule was very favorable but KU was still a very good team that year regardless. As Lou Holtz was saying during that magical 2007 year that KU is a good team and are beating the bad teams as a good team should. But all in all KU was terrible in the Big XII conferance!! Mangino just wasn't getting it done against Big XII South schools. Totally agree Gill needs at least 4 or 5 seasons. Seriously, I think he deserves at least that much considering where Buffalo was to a MAC Championship team in 3 years! Yes I know the MAC is not a BCS conferance but I don't think people really appreciate just how BAD BU was before Turner got there. Only time will tell.. Rock Chalk!!

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Cmill1221 3 years ago

Why don't you put gills numbers from buffalo and his one sorry season at ku up and compare the two.

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Larry Smith 3 years ago

see my post above and compare the two

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texashawk10 3 years ago

Are you so blinded by your hatred of Gill that you completely missed what that post was about? It had nothing to do with comparing Gill and Mangino, but about putting in perspective Mangino's tenure and pointing out that Mangino wasn't as great a coach as some want to make him out to be. Go back and reread the last sentence of my post if you think this post had anything to do with elevating Gill above Mangino.

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Cmill1221 3 years ago

No, I posted this w/ my I phone and the page wasn't done loading so it put my comment under the wrong post.

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justanotherfan 3 years ago

Turner Gill at Buffalo

Record by year (conference record) 2006 - 2-10 (1-7) 2007 - 5-7 (5-3) 2008 - 8-6 (5-3) (MAC title) 2009 - 5-7 (3-5)

Overall - 20-30 (14-18)

Two winning seasons in conference in four years. One conference title. Yeah, it was the MAC, but the bottom line is that when you're in a non-BCS conference, that's really the only way to measure because you're going to get hammered out of conference most of the time.

Turner Gill non-con wins (losses) 2006 - Temple (Wisconsin, Boston College, Auburn) 2007 - (Rutgers, Penn State, Baylor, Syracuse) 2008 - UTEP, Army (Pittsburgh, Missouri) (Connecticut bowl game) 2009 - UTEP, Gardner-Webb (Central Florida, Pittsburgh)

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nuleafjhawk 3 years ago

texashawk10 - there are going to be about 10 logical, reasonable adults on here ( you already know who they are ) that are going to read your post and say " Right on texashawk10, you hit that nail right on the head. "

The rest of them are going to read it, think for about one millisecond and say " Fire Gill "

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Ethan Berger 3 years ago

You know who lost to a d2 (or 1aa or fcs) school last year? Va Tech, they had twice the talent. Lets calm down and the turner doesn't know how to coach. Remember he is a d1 coach, you don't just sneeze that.

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HAWKTOPIA 3 years ago

I was at the orange bowl, oh what a blast! i feel so lucky to have been at that game. During my tailgate years at KU, i thought we went undefeated a few times, i was well medicated. Turner Gill is the real deal. i do not know if we will win 3 or 4 games, but i feel we will upset a team or two. Can't wait, because i'm a Jayhawk!

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nuleafjhawk 3 years ago

What's up with the dude with the "flashlight" eyes, behind # 81? That's kinda freaking me out.

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squawkhawk 3 years ago

Mark Mangino was just a stepping stone to Turner Gill who will surpass Mangino's record at KU and become a legend in his own mind.

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