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Big 12 Conference

Saturday, August 27, 2011

Keegan

Time for Big 12 to raid Big East

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Publicly, Big 12 officials and athletic directors of member schools must voice a positive, calm spin every time an institution bolts for another conference. Privately, they know they must poach or be poached. They’re looking, but maybe they aren’t looking in the right places.

Sure, Notre Dame, Arkansas or Air Force and Brigham Young would give the conference remarkable national appeal, strong TV ratings and a great deal of sex appeal. It’s worth a try, but as career minor-league power hitters can attest, swinging for the fences without adjusting to a two-strike plan is a good way to stay in the minors.

In the arena of conference realignment, it always pays to remember that nobody can be trusted. Not fellow conference members, not other conferences. Nobody. Poach or be poached. So far, the Big 12 has been raided three times, losing Colorado, Nebraska and soon Texas A&M and hasn’t raided any other conference.

Time to assess the national landscape, identify a vulnerable football conference and raid away. Before any Big 12 institutions seriously consider how they might fit into the Big East, first look at how a few Big East schools might look in the Big 12. Figure out a way to bring Pittsburgh, Rutgers and West Virginia to the Big 12 before the Big Ten decides to expand again and does the same, or adds Syracuse instead of West Virginia.

Why not explore adding Pitt, Rutgers and West Virginia before taking the less aggressive step of simply adding Houston and moving ahead with a 10-team conference?

Any conference move for Pitt and West Virginia is more appealing for both schools if they get to move together and preserve the Backyard Brawl, one of college football’s top rivalry games. (Last season WVU won on a 43-yard field goal by Tyler Bitancurt as time expired in one of the most dramatic games of the college football season.)

The Mountaineers always play an exciting brand of football, especially now, with former Oklahoma State offensive coordinator Dana Holgorsen as the head coach. Rutgers had made huge strides under Greg Schiano until stumbling to 4-8 last season. The New York-New Jersey athletes he now loses to Syracuse and UConn would be more likely to sign with Rutgers if the Scarlet Knights played in the Big 12. Having Rutgers in the Big 12 would bring a ton of TV sets into the conference, a plus for everybody.

One problem with Pitt, Rutgers and West Virginia joining the Big 12 to make the conference name accurate: Aligning the divisions by either latitude or longitude would not enable Kansas to keep its two chief rivals in the same division. Using East and West divisions would put KU in the East with the three Big East schools, Iowa State and Missouri. K-State would be in the West. Using North and South divisions would put KU in the North with the three Big East schools, K-State and Iowa State. Missouri would be in the South by a hair.

Minor detail. Just get the strongest members possible and worry about the divisions later.

Comments

onlylookin2score 3 years, 1 month ago

I could forsee this potentially.

The point is that the Commish needs to be proactive at this point. Oh, A&M wants to make some noise alongside the SEC. Well, the Big XII isn't some joke. We need to make other confrence entities understand this. That said I'd love to have Rutgers, Pitt, and WV. Throw in Notre Dame and Louisville and it'd be a new Super Confrence.

Someone get me the number to Big XII h.q.

hawk316 3 years, 1 month ago

Unquestionably, the big prize would be Notre Dame, albeit a long shot (I can dream, can't I?) If they could be persuaded somehow to join the conference, no other additions would be necessary.

kevz87 3 years, 1 month ago

will people start getting it in their head Notre Dame isn't leaving for any conference in football. They make enough money as it is and if they win 9 or 10 games they are guaranteed a BCS bowl. Why the heck would they leave to come to the Big 12 if we got Texas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and if we got Louisville or Pitt or WV? that'd be dumb on their part Notre Dame isn't going to leave independent. so everyone get Notre Dame out of your ideas.

Clinton Laing 3 years, 1 month ago

Rutgers ... how can I put this ... IS IN NEW JERSEY! We have to expand the conference in such a way as not to run people's travel budgets up extraordinarily, don't you think?

nuleafjhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

I've heard at least 100 people make the "no way ND" remark. Why?

I'm not being argumentative - just curious.

Robert Brock 3 years, 1 month ago

Because ND has had an open invitation from the solid Big Ten (a natural fit) for a long time and perpetually snubs them claiming their desire to remain independent.

The Big 12 - a flimsy, collapsing, collection of malcontents - is probably not going to be looked at more favorably by the Irish.

nuleafjhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Brock - I appreciate your comment.

I seriously had to laugh though, at your description of the Big 12. It kinda sounds like the Lambda Lambda Lambda fraternity from Revenge of the Nerds!

Steve Gantz 3 years, 1 month ago

IMHO, the Big 10 holds more prestige than the Big XII. ND is a prestigious university. Of course that didn't stop them from joining the Big East for basketball.

kerbyd 3 years, 1 month ago

The Big Ten may have prestige but look at who they accepted.....Nebraska!!! Nebraska's so pathetic academically that the AAU threw them out! Of course, that happened after the Big Ten accepted them.

Matt Gauntt 3 years, 1 month ago

What everyone, including Keegan (who typically gets it wrong) fails to think about is the fans. I'm an old fuddy-duddy, but when we have had games up here in the Chicago area, I'm amazed at how many kids have driven or flown up for a game to support the Hawks. The thing that makes the KSU-KU games so much fun is that you can get to the games in about 90 minutes. Mizzou - 3 hours. Pretty much all of the games that are played within the Big 12 are within a day's drive.

The other thing that makes the conference fun is that all of those schools have a lot of alumni in the major metropolitan areas. How many KU fans do we have in Dallas?? Oklahoma City?? Denver?? That's what makes the rivalries fun.

Pittsburgh?? West Virginia?? Rutgers??? Are you fricking kidding me??

A) How are any college students going to a game in West Virginia? B) Where are the natural rivalries??

If College football is all about money and the fans can go screw themselves, well then fine, let's have teams from the east coast. If its all about the money, I don't want to ever again hear some self-righteous twit like Tom Osborne tell me that it's not all about the money.

If College football is not all about the money, then maybe they can keep the fan's interest in mind just a little bit.

Kevin Kelly 3 years, 1 month ago

What you seem to forget is that the whole 'everything is 3 hours away' thing was only the case for the teams in the middle of the big 12. TT and CU always had to travel a ton and I don't hear them or thier fans complaining about either the possiblity of moving west (TT) or actually having done it (CU). NU always had to travel a tone throughout the confrence.

There are many teams....some in our own leauge...who travel a lot. Enough of them to consider that it shouldn't be the sole reason you make a decision.

And no one is saying screw the fans. This is about staying in a BCS confrence so we have BCS FB money to funnel into our athletic program so a national fricking treasure of a basketball team dosn't die. Tell a fan they have to travel an extra 3 to 5 hours because of it and I think they will understand.

Kevin Kelly 3 years, 1 month ago

Oh and another thing.

The fans leaving at halftime of the FB games over the last 15 years are the reason this is happening. We have enough national recognition that just a little bit of effort in FB could have put us in the SEC or Big 10 discussion.

But then again most of the fans gave up the minute they bought that t-shirt with a slogan that actually says 'win or loose I'm leaving in the 2nd quarter to drink a can of Natural Lite'

John Randall 3 years, 1 month ago

Not 'the reason', but certainly a contributing factor.

Matt Gauntt 3 years, 1 month ago

NEJhawk,

I'm not saying AT ALL, that we shouldn't expand. That's not my point at all. My point is that the whole problem has started because teams like Nebraska have moved to the Big 10 where Iowa is 5 hours away, Minnesota is 7 hours away, Illinois is 9 hours away and State College, PA is 18 hours away. Then there is Colorado where most of the teams are at least 15 hours away.

The whole college sports program has been about money. Money, and money alone. I understand that is the way it is. It's sad, but that is the truth. I just wish A-holes like Tom Osborne would just admit the truth instead of lying about what it is all about.

Andy Tweedy 3 years, 1 month ago

Marines! What a great place, it's a great place to start!!! (sorry, your post really got that old ad stuck in my head)

Robert Brock 3 years, 1 month ago

Keegan is right about the Big East being prime for plucking. But not by the Big Dwindling Conference. Keep working on it.

Clarence Haynes 3 years, 1 month ago

If one were to raid the Big East, I would have thought that it would be Louisville and Cicinnati, principally because of geography. Sizeablemedia markets to go with it.

ku11 3 years, 1 month ago

i've said this along. it's nice to see someone else agrees. Louisville and Cincinnati would be a great fit. Both are have good football programs to support the north division, plus it would give the conference 2 good basketball programs

LogicMan 3 years, 1 month ago

Regional ties, for the long run, are stronger. And as the cost of travel spirals upward as fuel gets much more expensive, regional opponents will be needed instead of far distant ones. Just like the old days before cheap gas.

So either split up the Big 12-2 between the SEC, PAC-12, and the Big10+2, or combine fully or partly with the MWC. KU, MU, and hopefully KSU and ISU to the Big 10+6. With the MWC, the easy first step would be to invite CSU, Wyoming, New Mexico, and maybe BYU or SMU to the Big-12.

Clinton Laing 3 years, 1 month ago

I find this argument the most compelling; sometimes you gotta know when to fold 'em, and an organized, timely self-dissassembly is a better way to go than being picked apart by jackals.

But I get first dibs on the "Bix Six bar" souvenirs!

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Andy Tweedy 3 years, 1 month ago

I know a lot of people can't stand Keegan, but name the three. Not saying you can't, in fact I'm not a big fan of these columns. I'm just curious what three you are referring to...

gdkadjayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

...and nearly 7 hours after the original post, don't see those three major mistakes that ahper can "instantly recall"....

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 1 month ago

Brainwaves!!! The three things... Ya know what... If you're not smart enough to... Forget it!!!

Krohnutz 3 years, 1 month ago

The three were in his first paragraph.

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, if somebody didn't pick up on it, Bubba is not our AD, Leach is not at ASU and Mangino isn't at Minn. Those were the reporting mistakes... So...having them literally spelled out to you, then claiming you don't see them... Egg...on yo face!

jlvlawrence 3 years, 1 month ago

Speaking of bush league, thats what all of your comments are.

Graczyk 3 years, 1 month ago

The whole academic thing is out the window and way overblown to begin with. With Nebraska joining the Big 10, it should be clear that it is all about money. NU lost their AAU status and isn't any more selective than KU. Nor does it have an appreciably higher ACT average for its incoming freshman - at least the last time I looked. The academics argument does not carry any water.

Kyle Cornish 3 years, 1 month ago

Here is the problem. The Big 12 won't raid the Big East. The Big East will raid the Big 12. The Big East is far stronger, especially having the east coast network's backing.

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 1 month ago

"The Big East is far stronger" - What a joke

John Randall 3 years, 1 month ago

Not competitively, but they are $tronger on TV front.

flyin_squirrel 3 years, 1 month ago

Keegan,

You are being minded on this issue. Why would any of those schools go to the Big 12 and how do the divisions make any sense. If you want a real solution, think outside the box.

The Big 12 should go to the ACC and combine the two conferences. If FSU or Virginia Tech leave the ACC, they would have 11. The Big 12 has 9. The first SUPERCONFERENCE of 20 teams could be born, with the Big 12 making up the West Division (+ 1 ACC school), and rest of the ACC making up the EAST. Play every team in your division in football, then the two division winners play in a Conference Championship game for the true Champion.

All other sports could do round robins, or figure out a way schedule, but football rules first.

Imagine how strong the basketball would be and how large the TV contract would be. Hugh footprint into new recruiting markets for all schools. Win Win. ACC has the same problem as the Big 12 and this would stop teams from poaching either conference.

Andy Tweedy 3 years, 1 month ago

Those teams "might" go to the Big XII because they'd make more money there, plain and simple. I've read that basketball is about one third of tv revenue, and the Big East is surely a great basketball conference. But its football sucks, and doesn't just suck a little. Not many people go out of their way to watch Syracuse or Rutgers football! So while I'm not saying Keegan is on to something here, the Big East is not about to raid the Big XII.

Krohnutz 3 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

jgkojak 3 years, 1 month ago

Keegan strikes out on this one.

Geography and natural ties do matter. Lots of KU Alumni in CO. Air Force gives them a game and brings some nice diversity to B12 schools.

BYU adds an entire KC-sized market plus somewhat of a nat. following.

We may not get Notre Dame, but we have to make the biggest pitch/power play possible for them.

All that said - a 10 team B12 with BYU is as strong as a B12 with A&M if not stronger (extra TV market).

It won't get to the pnt of raiding inferior B-East schools like Cinci - if BYU won't join Air Force would in a heartbeat.

David Robinett 3 years, 1 month ago

Arkansas is my vote. Gives us more access / exposure to Southern recruits. Also brings an existing rivalry of sorts for MU, and reignites rivalries with old SW Conference foes.

kureader 3 years, 1 month ago

Not a bad idea, Keegan. Hopefully, someone in the Big 12 is thinking outside the box to make up for Beebe, who's probably doing whatever Texas tells him to do.

But, I doubt that schools outside the Big 12 have the same perspective that we do. What would other BCS schools gain by leaving their BCS conference to join another one? The Big 12 is obviously unstable, and we've just lost two Top 20 football programs. And, for the schools you mentioned, they'd have to abandon long standing rivalries to join the Big 12. And, for some, there'd be a cultural gap. As someone already posted, Rutgers won't want to join a midwestern conference.

Having said that, it's still an interesting idea. I'd pick different schools, though, where their cultures wouldn't change and where other regional rivalries could develop ... Arkansas (long shot), Louisville, or maybe Memphis.

Fun speculation. I think, this time, the Big 12 was ready. The changes will be good ones.

texashawk10 3 years, 1 month ago

Big 12 schools currently earn between $14-17 million on their TV contract with Texas, Texas A&M, and OU making $20 million per year. In a few years when the Big 12 renegotiates their first tier TV package (ABC/ESPN), that will increase each schools earnings into the $25 million per range. Only the SEC and Big 10 can compete with that kind of money so if it's all about money, the Big 12 becomes an attractive place to look at because of the value Texas and Oklahoma add to the TV contract.

Andy Tweedy 3 years, 1 month ago

Why so many people fail to realize that this is all about money is amazing to me. As far as I'm concerned, you're right on here. Nobody is going to voluntarily go from the Big XII to the Big East, and there are only a couple places where we would voluntarily go. Texas might be annoying, but it's thanks to them that we have as much cash as we do.

nuleafjhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Let's join the Ivy League ! They're all loaded !

jhawkrulz 3 years, 1 month ago

At least Keegan is thinking outside of the box on this one and not the same old schools...Houston, TCU and Arkansas.

Alex Berger 3 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, this whole "no way ND would join the Big XII" is a little premature. Two big reasons Notre Dame would join the Big XII.

1) We are heading in a direction for the sport more and more where your conference gives you prestige. Yeah, Notre Dame is a big name for a lot of us but to a high school kid looking to play on Sundays? He is looking for national recognition. So you say "but they turned down the Big Ten why would they want the Big XII? That leads to the second reason.

2) Revenue sharing. In the Big Ten they would not be able to have an individual contract with NBC and would have to give a fair share of their football dough to all conference members. In the Big XII on the other hand, they would be able to keep their contract with NBC, and keep more money they would with the Big Ten.

Notre Dame to Big XII impossible? I don't think so.

Ethan Berger 3 years, 1 month ago

BCS BCS BCS. That is the reason ND won't come. As long as they get a free bid with 9 wins, and bring in the bcs bowl game dolla, they ain't leaving.

Ethan Berger 3 years, 1 month ago

but your number 2 is spot on, to me that is the only way we can real them in.

gdkadjayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Also, in terms of competitive teams, year in and year out I would put up OU and UT against Ohio St, Michigan, and Wisconsin. However, that might not be an incentive right now for a Notre Dame program that's trying to find its way.

whitechocolate 3 years, 1 month ago

KU has one more BCS victory than ND. The Fighting Irish have been to three BCS bowls and lost all of them convincingly.

The idea that they have an easy road to a big bowl is probably tempting, but since Notre Dame hasn't been much of a football title threat in about 30 years, I think they will be more than willing to look at a Big 12 offer. If we keep going the road of the super conferences, ND will most likely join one in good time.

Friend of mine is an Irish alum and thinks ND will keep flirting with whoever can offer them the sweetest pot. Our financial offer won't be nearly as high as the Big 10, but with proximity, the promise of OU + Texas and the ability to create their own network, I think we've got a better chance than some people think.

texashawk10 3 years, 1 month ago

Notre Dame would make more money in the Big 12 than the Big 10. In the Big 12, ND would have the potential to keep their NBC deal going, start their own network, and get a Texas and OU size portion of the new TV deal which could push them upwards of $50 million per year. Combine that amount of money with a path to the BCS that isn't any more difficult than their current path, and the Big 12 has a very compelling offer for ND that would be very difficult to turn down.

Josh Galler 3 years, 1 month ago

I think BIg 12 and ACC should pick up 5 (Louis, pitt, wvu, cindy, and USF for Big 12) and 4 of the Big East FB schools to ACC, and Big 12 add 2 more with the likes of BYU or SMU or Houston or Air Force Then the BIg East and A-10 merge. But if the U gets the DP, ACC should take USF, and KU would add 3 of the 4 above

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 1 month ago

Keegs, this is one time I think you are way off base. My goodness we have some kind of inferiority complex. The Big 12 has been the second best football conference until NU left for years. Some years we have been the best.

So, why in the world aren't any of you people saying we should go after the malcontents in the SEC, Big 10, or PAC 12? Take the worst of either conference and put them in a division. Put Arkansas with Kentucky, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois and Northwestern, Missouri and Memphis. Arkansas would be playing for the conference championship every other year. All these states are contiguous to the Big 12.

The Big10 now adds teams from the Big East. Whats left of the Big East goes to the ACC. It would be the best of all possible worlds. It will be the Big East that will get cobbled up. And for good reason. All conferences would now be geographically contiguous.

West

Iowa State Kansas Kansas State Oklahoma Oklahoma State Texas Texas Tech Baylor

East

Missouri Kentucky Arkansas Indiana Illinois Purdue Northwestern Memphis

Conference alternatives: ND, Iowa, Louisville, SMU, TCU, Houston, Air Force, Arizona, Arizona State

Then, every 10 years we change the shape of the divisions to give every one a chance to be in a better position to compete. Maybe back to North, South divisions. But if you are Arkansas or any of those teams in the East Div wouldn't you like to have that as your schedule? Would certainly keep Missouri in the conference. They and Arkansas would be playing for the Title game every year. For Indiana, it would also certainly be an easier schedule. For every team in the East it would be an easier schedule.

parrothead8 3 years, 1 month ago

Why in the world would any school leave the SEC or Big 10? Those schools make so much money from being in those conferences that they'd be fools to leave. You're dreaming if you think your "best of all possible worlds" has a prayer of happening, because it only makes sense from a fan's point of view. From an economic standpoint, it's not even close.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 1 month ago

Well, Tool, which conference are you representing today? Big10 and SEC schools do not make a whole lot more than Big12 schools, if any. I know it is close with the new fox deal and a new espn deal coming.

Robert Lofthouse 3 years, 1 month ago

Bring Louisville, Villanova and Temple in and get a sizeable audience cutting across I-70 to Philadelphia, skipping through B10 and SEC country; lots of Big12 fans in the Philly market; and rabid fan bases for these three schools. Tee it up to open the door for some BE schools in a couple of years. But Louisville, Pitt and WVU would be a good fit too!

blindrabbit 3 years, 1 month ago

As Steven Tyler and Aerosmith would say: " Dream On". The only difference is that the "Dreaming until your dream comes true" ain't goin to happin with Notre Dame, Pitt., W.V. joining with K.U.. I've lived back in that part of the world; they don't know where we are and could care less; Eastern snobbery. I'd focus out West for future additions to the conference!

Kevin Randell 3 years, 1 month ago

Ok....how about this? BigXII and Big East join as one super conference. West (old Big XII) and the East (old Big East). When it comes to football we can have a two or three team switch each season. Kind of like how the Big 10 had to not play a couple of teams each year. We could make sure that the "rival games" stay in tact. ie OU/Texas OU/OSU, KU/Mizzou, KU/K-State, Pitt/WVU etc. But what would be important is that 5 or 6 of the conference games would stay within the west and east...to cut down on travel. That way each side would only have to travel to the other side 3 times a year. Same format can apply to basketball.

Then, we would form the first Mega Conference.

Rick Arnoldy 3 years, 1 month ago

We need to move east, not west. There's more talent and more media coverage. You're not going to steal major programs from other major conferences. Grab names from the mids who are looking to move up. Louisville, Memphis, Cincinnati, Bowling Green, Miami (OH), UAB. Get your recruiting base out east.

Hawks2001 3 years, 1 month ago

When the conference splits, hopefully we'll just join the Big East along with KSU and MU.

Football would look like this

EAST

WVU Pitt UConn S Florida Rutgers Syracuse

WEST

KU KSU MU TCU Louisville Cincinnatti

The 20 team Basketball Conference would be as such:

EAST

UConn Syracuse Pitt GTown Villanova St Johns Rutgers Providence S. Florida

WEST

Kansas Louisville Cincinnatti Marquette Missouri Notre Dame West Virginia K State Depaul TCU

Bill Lee 3 years, 1 month ago

How about adding Hawaii as a recruiting tool? Tell a kid he'll get two trips to the islands during his time at KU.

Alex Berger 3 years, 1 month ago

Sorry, there aren't many Big Ten teams that are malcontent where they are. That revenue sharing deal the Big Ten has going for them is too sweet a deal for the smaller schools to get anywhere else.

tulsahawk13 3 years, 1 month ago

Is everybody just content with us losing? The last time we had a share of the conference in football was 1968, over 40 years with notta. I realize that by leaving a BCS conference we'd be leaving money on the table... but couldn't we make that up by winning more, going to bowl games consistently and having a full stadium? Or start our own network... I'd pay $9.95 a month to get the Jayhawk Network as long as Keegan didn't contribute to any of it.

hammerhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Something needs to be done for sure for the Big 12 conference. WV would be super. Arkansas too. Hawks 2001 has a good idea. We need to think outside the box on this extremely important component to the life of our University.

texashawk10 3 years, 1 month ago

Let's just blow up the current conference format and go with four 20 team conferences that are split up by geography. Within these 4 conferences would be four 5 team pods. Two of the pods would be paired together as a division and rotate every two years so each team would play a home and away with the other 15 teams outside their pod every 6 years. The winners of each division would advance to an 8 team playoff. Now for the geography part, the 4 divisions would be from the Rockies to the Pacific, the Mississippi to the Rockies, north of the Ohio River, and south of the Ohio River. There will be some teams from outside these boundaries just to make each conference even at 20 teams. The western conference is made up primarily of PAC 12, MWC, and WAC teams with a Big 12 team. The midwest is includes Big 12, SEC, Big 10, and C-USA schools. The northeast is Big 10, Big East, and ACC schools, and the southeast is SEC, ACC, and a Big East school.

West: Air Force, Arizona, Arizona St., BYU, Boise St., Cal, Colorado, Fresno St., Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Oregon St., San Diego St., Stanford, Texas Tech, UCLA, USC, Utah, Wash., Wash. St.

Pod 1: Boise St., Oregon, Oregon St., Wash, Wash. St. Pod 2: Air Force, BYU, Colorado, Texas Tech, Utah Pod 3: Cal, Fresno St., Hawaii, Nevada, Stanford Pod 4: Arizona, Arizona St., San Diego St., UCLA, USC

Midwest: Arkansas, Baylor, Houston, Illinois, Iowa, Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St., LSU, Memphis, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., SMU, TCU, Texas, Texas A&M, Wisconsin

Pod 1: Baylor, Houston, LSU, Texas, Texas A&M Pod 2: Iowa, Iowa St., Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin Pod 3: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., SMU, TCU Pod 4: Illinois, Kansas, Kansas St., Memphis, Missouri

Northeast: Army, Boston College, Cincinnati, Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan St., Navy, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Ohio St., Penn St., Pittsburgh, Purdue, Rutgers, Syracuse, UConn, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia

Pod 1: Army, Boston College, Rutgers, Syracuse, UConn Pod 2: Maryland, Navy, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia Pod 3: Cincinnati, Indiana, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Purdue Pod 4: Michigan, Michigan St., Ohio St., Penn St., Pittsburgh

Southeast: Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, Duke, Florida, Florida St., Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, Louisville, Miami, Miss., Miss. St., North Carolina, NC State, South Carolina, South Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest

Pod 1: Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Miss., Miss. St. Pod 2: Florida, Florida St., Georgia Tech, Miami, South Florida Pod 3: Kentucky, Louisville, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt Pod 4: Clemson, Duke, North Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest

*Chances of happening are less that 0% and I'm fully aware of this. Just something to think about.

kansas525 3 years, 1 month ago

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but as usual Keegan needs to check his facts.

"Any conference move for Pitt and West Virginia is more appealing for both schools if they get to move together and preserve the Backyard Brawl, one of college football’s top rivalry games. (Last season WVU won on a 43-yard field goal by Tyler Bitancurt as time expired in one of the most dramatic games of the college football season.)"

Last season WVU beat up Pitt on Hinez Field 35-10. It was the 09' season when WVU beat Pitt on the last second fg from Bitancourt. i would know, I was attending WVU at the time.

Chazzmichaelmichaels 3 years, 1 month ago

A true bellum omnium contra omnes if ever there was one. Very insightful Keegan.

rob4lb 3 years, 1 month ago

Nothing new here except for more speculation. I have to believe that all of the contingency plans have been completed and that if the Big 12 should implode there is already an aggreement where some of the other schools will land.

Gregory Newman 3 years, 1 month ago

You guys need to quit dreaming. Kansas is basketball period and quit lying about Kansas academics. They belong to the AAU Academic Association Union. The schools that do not belong are: KSU, OSU, OU, Baylor, Neb., and TT. Univ. of Nebraska @ Lincoln just got kicked out. So get your sources right.

Its about marketing and football winning traditions that can produce $$$$. Kansas does not have that illustrious tradition in football. Plus Kansas does not need a Bill Self to maintain a winning tradition in basketball.

If Houston joined the conference it would rattle Tx. They don't want in state competition for dollars or recruits in TV markets. Like Dallas and Houston. (SMU,TCU, Rice, Houston). The ACC is a better basketball conference as is the Big East. Conference USA is a better football conference than both. When Turner Gill turns this thing around and he will that rattles the Big Ten. Yaw need to relax and dream about that imaginary woman that you'll never get.

DCLawHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

One factor no one seems to be discussing is what each prospective school's current athletic budget is. Several of the schools mentioned in this thread are WAY below the average athletic budget of the current Big XII schools. Adding them is not feasible. Louisville is close, has a strong basketball tradition, has already shifted conferences once fairly recently, and brings a new media market. I'd start with them. Don't get me wrong. Arkansas and Notre Dame would be great, but I think those are less likely than landing Louisville.

actorman 3 years, 1 month ago

"The Big 12 - a flimsy, collapsing, collection of malcontents - is probably not going to be looked at more favorably by the Irish."

That's completely missing the point. If ND decided to join the Big XII, then that description would no longer apply. All of a sudden, the Big XII would be an extremely attractive entity. Combine that with ND getting to keep their own TV money (as others have mentioned), and it's not inconceivable.

Keegan, You are being minded on this issue."

I don't know about you, flyin_squirrel, but I would rather not have to obey Keegan on anything. But you're welcome to do so if that's your choice.

"Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but as usual Keegan needs to check his facts."

I've defended Keegan a number of times, but to make such a basic mistake as saying a game was played last year when it was actually the year before is simply inexcusable. Unbelievaly lazy and sloppy, and typical of the things that he so often gets criticized for.

"I've lived back in that part of the world; they don't know where we are and could care less; Eastern snobbery"

I have no doubt that you're right about their snobbery, but the question is not whether they know or care about where we are, but whether they care about making a sh**-load more money. The almighty dollar has a funny way of changing people's opinions on things.

Kenny Nall 3 years, 1 month ago

Can't see it happening. Other power conferences won't be bullied by us now and considering the distance factor it's a hard sell. Though Notre Dame would be an excellent addition. Add TCU and you might have something there.

Josh Galler 3 years, 1 month ago

sorry for the period,for some reason the comments were not showing up on my browser

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 1 month ago

I am not real sure that Notre Dame wants to come anywhere close to Oklahoma as a conference foe. It was the Irish that ended Oklahoma's 57 game winning streak on November 16, 1957, still the national record for consecutive wins in college football. Even more distressing to Oklahoma fans, that date, November 16, was statehood day in 1907!

http://www.mmbolding.com/OUStreak/OUND.htm

Every since, ND has been a bigger target for the Sooners than Nebraska, Texas (hard to believe!) Miami or OSU (even harder to believe!!)

Given the fact that OU has been doing pretty well in college football, I think that the Irish may well just want to keep out of range of the Boomer Sooners.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 1 month ago

Ooops...Sorry...."47 game winning streak" (I am a fan, I gotta stretch the truth sometimes)

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 1 month ago

West

Iowa State Kansas Kansas State Oklahoma Oklahoma State Texas Texas Tech Baylor

East

Missouri Kentucky Arkansas Indiana Illinois Purdue Northwestern Memphis

Josh Galler 3 years, 1 month ago

I do not see any Big 10 +2 and SEC to join Big 12 Teams.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 1 month ago

You cannot see it because you have no vision.

Josh Galler 3 years, 1 month ago

I have a vision, but my vision is more pausible than this lovely vision

average 3 years, 1 month ago

It's small ball. But, I think the Big 12's only chance to remain in existence is getting back to 12. And as much as they all aren't my first dancing partners, that's probably something like BYU, Houston, and New Mexico. The Lobos in particular are underrated as a growable prospect. Sure, football is currently barely on par with the weakest members of the B12. But, they have a fair-sized media market, some young money in ABQ, and basically no competition from professional sports or other major college programs.

JhawkXpat 3 years, 1 month ago

I live in Pittsburgh (grew up in Lawrence) and I can tell you that the athletic departments and fan bases at Pitt and WVU get along as well as those at KU and Missouri.....that said, the rivalry is awesome and would be a great addition to the Big 12....but good luck getting them to work together on something like this.

Then find one more school in between geographically....Louisville. Agree that the Big 12 has to get aggressive to survive. Most people around here think Pitt will ultimately join the Big 10 to resume the old rivalry with Penn State.

actorman 3 years, 1 month ago

"I have a vision, but my vision is more pausible than this lovely vision"

So your vision is not constant, eh? I would have that checked out.

Hawks444 3 years, 1 month ago

Geography should matter - it makes sense for conferences to be regional so teams and fans don't have to travel so much. But it seems that geography doesn't matter anymore.

Academics should matter - schools with higher admission standards shouldn't be so willing to associate with schools with lower standards. But that doesn't matter anymore, either. If it mattered, who would want to join the SEC?

Anyone talking about Notre Dame joining the Big 12 is dreaming. Texas doesn't want them stealing UT's thunder as the big dog. I read somewhere that about 10% of ND's football players are from Texas. Put them in the Big 12 and that goes to 50% quickly. Texas doesn't want that.

I don't like the idea of the Big 12 adding random schools, BYU, Louisville, etc. just to keep the numbers up, but I realize that may have to happen.

As a KU grad, I have a feeling the 'Hawks are going to get screwed when the Big 12 implodes (not if, when). At worst UT can be independent and do just fine, so UT doesn't really care about the survival of the conference. KU should be begging to go to the Pac 12, maybe try to bring along OU, OSU and MU. I hate the idea of all of the travel that would be involved, but it's better than being left out in the cold. And it would open up recruiting in Cali, which wouldn't be such a bad thing.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 1 month ago

In the end, folks, the Big12 will survive as long as OU and Texas want it to survive. They know that. We should know that too. Nothing wrong with ten members. Right now OSU, Misery, OU, and TAMU are licking their chops at not having to play the conference championship game. They know it is possible to even lose one game and get the big ticket punched. So, as long as OU and Texas want it that way, we can survive. We could actually have schools knocking on the door a few years from now if the Big10 or SEC continues to expand to 20 members. There are going to be schools who get tired of being beaten like a drum. The mega-conference is a media creation anyway. They are baiting the fans of college athletics and I think the commissioners know that it is not in the best interest of college athletics. Money doesn't drive everything, just most things, but there are limits. I think Missouri recognizes this too and have been awfully close to getting to that next level. I don't know if Missouri fans could cope with going to the Big10 and losing their shot at the big one. If they get there, then they will jump ship. So, all we have to do is beat them every year.

AtlJim 3 years, 1 month ago

(Last season WVU won on a 43-yard field goal by Tyler Bitancurt as time expired in one of the most dramatic games of the college football season.)!!

I was at the backyard brawl last year and this was not the result. How can you be so factually wrong. Do you guys have editors?

HuskyHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

I know this is two weeks late, but it's remarkable how reality changes. I went to KU law and UConn undergrad, and at present, it looks a lot more like the Big East will survive and raid the Big 12 than the other way around.

Like you, I'm worried about my two schools. A merger with the Big East would yield the most amazing basketball conference ever. The rumors are everywhere. Will the ACC go to 14, 16? SEC? If they all expand, it's likely that both the Big 12 and Big East will be gone.

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