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Big 12 Conference

Tuesday, August 16, 2011


Translation: A&M will still bolt


Reader poll

Do you think Texas A&M should remain a part of the Big 12 conference?

  • Yes. 48% 832 votes
  • No. 51% 897 votes

1729 total votes.

Two days ago, the easy answer to the question, “Will Texas A&M; leave the Big 12 for the SEC,” was “Definitely.”

But now? Don’t be fooled. That’s still the answer. It’s just a matter of how and when.

A&M;’s board of regents met Monday to discuss conference realignment, and, when the doors to the meeting room flew open, we learned very few details and heard only ambiguous answers from A&M; president R. Bowen Loftin.

To me, there were a couple of telling responses in the president’s address.

Loftin cautioned that, either way, this would be a long, drawn-out process and asked for patience from the Aggie nation. Translation: We’re working our butts off to make this happen so bear with us.

Loftin said that, if A&M; were to leave, they would love to continue to play Texas in football on an annual basis. Translation: We’re gone, but we’d like you to know we still care.

And, finally, in the event that the Aggies are no longer in the Big 12, Loftin said the conference would have no problem finding a suitable replacement. Translation: Better get started.

Loftin’s postgame speech was a masterful job of a man saying so much while saying nothing at all. It’s clear where the Aggies stand, and it has been from the minute news of their courtship with the SEC surfaced. Whether it’s one man driving the ship, such as Texas governor and A&M; graduate Rick Perry, or an entire department, all that matters is that enough Aggies are ready to uproot.

But that’s only half of the equation. And, for folks around here, it’s the unimportant half. The question now shifts to what will become of the Big 12? Curiously, Loftin addressed that, too, though I hesitate to waste more space on those thoughts. The abridged version? “We’re also very concerned about the members of the Big 12. We don’t want the Big 12 to go away. We have no intention of doing anything that might precipitate that.”

Thanks. Good night. And good luck.

What’s missing in all of this is a dose of reality. If the Aggies want to leave, no one’s stopping them. Not the Longhorns, not the Texas Legislature, which actually postponed a meeting set for today because it deemed the threat to be over, and not the Big 12.

That’s reality. And now it’s time for everyone to move on. Insider reports from Texas indicate that the Aggies will announce their departure in the next 20 days. So let ’em.

While they’re doing that, the Big 12 can and will begin preparations for its next move, one that should include throwing everything at Notre Dame and adjusting accordingly from there.

A&M; believes it’s the one making the bold move right now, but how will the Aggies feel if they see Notre Dame’s golden domes in their rearview mirror?

Talk about a power play.


ohjayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

I shudder to think of the potential impact on basketball recruiting if we end up in the Pac-12. Our games would start at 11pm-midnight on the east coast, and, since Coach Self has come in, our main recruiting base has been the east coast. We would probably lose the 9pm Big Monday game as well. We need to focus on moving east. As much as it pains me to say it, I'd rather be in the Big East. I can't stand their style of basketball, but our team would benefit from the (over)exposure of the BE on ESPN. Our football team would also be in better position to contend for a BCS bowl, more quickly. If the Big 12 goes belly up, my order of preference would be Big East, Big 10, Pac-12.

Marc Frey 6 years, 10 months ago

I agree. The Pac 10 is barely a blip on the national stage, when it comes to sports.

Ross Cargo 6 years, 10 months ago

barely a blip = the conference with the most national championships in the 2010-2011 school year and the most national championships overall.

I would say the Pac 10 (now 12) sports programs are pretty damn solid.

Andy Tweedy 6 years, 10 months ago

I hear about late games all the time when the PAC-12 comes up, but I don't really see it as a big problem. If we were to go there, we'd surely be taking a couple schools along, say OU and OSU. Along with CU, that's most of a division that's still in the same geographic region. Then if you play 8 games against the other division in bball, 2 or 3 in football, and half of those are home games. We're already playing road games against teams like UCLA and Arizona in basketball, so those games are already on the left coast. I think we're really only talking about a couple additional games a year on the coast. I say big deal, if the PAC-12 makes sense, I don't think that argument should stop us.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

If we end up in the Pac 12, it will be along with 3 other Big12 teams (probably OU, OSU, & MU). There will be a number of games played in the Midwest (away games with those 3 as well as our home games), as well as CU and Utah. That's 6 of 8 teams in our division in a potential PAC 16. I understand the concern, but late games wouldn't be as often as you think.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Better than playing in the Missouri Valley...

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 10 months ago

Someone that lives in kc, do me a favor... turn on your tv and tell me if you get the big 10 network. That will Be your answer if ku goes to the big 10 or not.

And your arguments about west coast obscurity are hard to justify when a PAC team was in the BCS title game and ucla and u of a always pull east coast recruits for hoops.

And if your choices were to stay up a little later to watch a basketball game or not get picked up by a BCS conference...

PAC 12 or bust!

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Don't mention the name Gurner Till, and ahperse knows how to make an argument.

Keep it up, brotha.

texashawk10 6 years, 10 months ago

While I don't think Notre Dame will ever end up being a member of the Big 12, I do think there is a more realistic chance of Notre Dame ending up in the Big 12 than the Big 10 because of the potential of Notre Dame keeping their NBC deal and profiting from that while a member of the Big 12. I think ultimately that Notre Dame football will end up in the Big East like the rest of their athletic programs. I think the way this will happen is that while conferences are expanding, the Big East will give Notre Dame an ultimatum to join in football or be kicked out of the Big East entirely. The Big East will be able to pull this off by either allowing Notre Dame to continue their relationship with NBC, or work out some kind of deal for NBC to broadcast Big East football games while giving Notre Dame priority for football broadcasts because Notre Dame would be the only school in the conference that has any kind of significant name recognition outside of the northeast.

Notre Dame would significantly increase the value of Big East football and would have more than enough clout to be able to negotiate an arrangement with the Big East similar to what Texas has right now in the Big 12. I would guess that Notre Dame by itself could add $20-25 million per year to the value of any TV contract in the conference it joins It is because of this value that Notre Dame is going to always be the first team mentioned in for addition to the Big 10, Big 12, and Big East when expansion talks take place. I do think that Notre Dame will have to join a conference if they ever want to try and regain their past glory because their schedule is too difficult on a yearly basis to ever reach the national title game right now and joining either the Big 12 or Big East would decrease the difficulty of the schedule and give Notre Dame a better chance to compete for national titles again.

stravinsky 6 years, 10 months ago

No way in hell Notre Dame decides to join the Big 12. Not now, not ever.

texashawk10 6 years, 10 months ago

As I said above, I don't believe Notre Dame ever ends up in the Big 12, but at the same time Dan Beebe and DeLoss Dodds would be the most egotistically, stupid, morons ever to not try and get Notre Dame in the Big 12 because of how much value they will add to a conference when they join one. Notre Dame is the one school that could make the Big 12 hunters when the super-conferences start forming instead of being the hunted and because of this, the Big 12 needs to do everything in their power, even if it doesn't work, to try and lure Notre Dame into the conference.

Kevin Kelly 6 years, 10 months ago

This reminds me of what NU fans were saying last year at this time. That the Big 12 would crumble the minute they left and that it was our fault for not helping them push back against Texas. When the Big 12 decided to get together as a 10 team leauge there was like a conspiracy theory up here in Nebraska.

"There's NO WAY those numbers are right!"


I heard the team 'No Way' so much the first thing I think of when I hear it is someone who clearly dosn't know any more than I do and is playing their gut.

justinryman 6 years, 10 months ago

Husker fans make me laugh here in Omaha as they used to say the Big10 was the most over rated conference in the country. That they could never win a bowl game because they didn't have speed, but always had someone up for the Heisman just because they were the Big10.

NOW that they have joined the Big10 all they can say is how great it is and how evenly matched all the teams are and so on...and how the Big12 was corrupt and so on...That they didn't wan't to be Texas' lil beach and yet they just moved to become Wisconsin's Ohio St and soon to be Michigan's on the field. Off the field they will have no pull in the Big10 just like they didn't in the Big12.

They didn't want to play in Dallas for a Big12 championship, heck Osborne was always against a championship game. He runs off to the Big10 promotes a championship game and they will never get it closer than Chicago, in an outdoor market in December. So much for playing in the best and newest stadium ever built(and I hate Jerry Jones and the Cowboys, but that Stadium is something else).

It will be what it will be when it's time to be.

texashawk10 6 years, 10 months ago

Having said what I have about Notre Dame, Dan Beebe would an absolute moron to not give Notre Dame a call and beg them to join the Big 12. I would even be okay with Beebe offering Notre Dame a similar deal to what Texas has now with the ability to start and operate their own network independent of the Big 12's TV deal. Considering that the SEC is likely to expand to 14 or 16 if they do expand, there is the possibility of also losing Missouri at which point the Big 12 have to look at teams to add to put themselves in a less vulnerable position.

Since I don't believe Notre Dame will end up joining the Big 12, the next phone call should be to BYU. BYU doesn't have the national following that Notre Dame, but they do give the Big 12 much more visibility west of the Rockies since that is where the majority of Mormons in the country live. I do think BYU is a school that would join the Big 12 because the value of the Big 12 TV contracts would more than double what BYU is making right now with their ESPN contract if they joined the Big 12. I also don't believe BYU has a clause with the BCS so they would be going from a non-AQ situation to an BCS conference so I would believe that BYU would accept an invitation to the Big 12 should one be offered.

The third call is the courtesy call to Arkansas to appease Jerry Jones and after Arkansas says thanks for calling, but we're staying in the SEC, Beebe should move onto Air Force. Air Force is the second school that would more than likely accept a bid to the Big 12 as it would be move from a non-AQ conference to a BCS conference. Air Force, like Notre Dame and BYU, doesn't deliver a single TV, but rather would bring in a national audience since there are Air Force bases all across the country.

If the Big 12 does indeed lose Missouri as well and the Big 12 is only seeking to get back to 10 teams, this would be mission accomplished, but I believe if the Big 12 drops to 8 schools the Big 12 would look to add 4 schools to get up to 12 schools to try and get to less vulnerable position.

The fifth call would be to try and convince Texas and Oklahoma to approve TCU for admission to the Big 12, but this is something I just don't see happening and unless the Big 12 has the same approval process as the SEC, TCU will never get unanimous approval to join the Big 12.

After this is when the Big 12 has to look outside their traditional regions at other BCS schools such as Louisville and Cincinnati and at non-AQ schools such Mountain West and C-USA schools to fill in the 11th and 12th spots in the conference. This is the point where schools like Boise St., Houston, SMU, UTEP, Memphis, New Mexico, Colorado St, and Wyoming come into the picture for consideration for admission to the Big 12.

LogicMan 6 years, 10 months ago

After, or in addition to, Notre Dame and BYU, Colorado State, Wyoming, and the University of New Mexico.

hailtoku 6 years, 10 months ago

People who mention Notre Dame in the same breath as the Big 12 and conference realignment have no idea what they are talking about.

The Big 10 has been working on ND for over a decade... Notre Dame would lose money coming to the Big 12.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

ND has refused the Big 10 because they would have to give up their NBC contract. They could potentially keep it in the Big12 AND partake in conference revenue sharing. How would they lose money?

I'm not saying they come to the Big 12, but it has the possibility of being the best of both worlds for them.

Kevin Kelly 6 years, 10 months ago

Exactly. In the words of Krusty the Klown..."Ohhhh! They backed a dump truck full of money up to my house! I'm not made of stone!!!"

Big 10 can't handle ND because they think they are just as powerful. Big 12 does not have that delusion. In fact up here in Nebraska the talk is about how could the SEC do this to aTm???? You don't come out like aTm did if you havn't been given the go ahead.

What NU fan dosn't see is that the the Big 10, the SEC, ND and Texas all have about the same level of ego. They will court you all the way up to the alter and leave you there because of who they are....THEY are the SEC. You are just MU...THEY are the Big 10.

ND to the Big 10 dosn't work because neither group will check thier ego. Our confrence....were all about sliding blank checks across the table and don't give into notions of everyone in the confrence needs to be equally happy and singing kumbya. Some see that as what will kill it....I see it as what will save it.

5to6 6 years, 10 months ago

This is the first I've seen of the Big XII/ACC merger, but that's an interesting idea. It would have a broad geographic and multiple time-zone span, and if you have two core groups that are geographically close, it would reduce travel costs if you stay within your division until a conference championship. For the sake of attractive TV matchups, you could devise an interdivisional schedule for Football and Men's Basketball, and keep the intradivisional scheduling for the non-revenue sports.

I don't know that the ACC would go for this, and if we only lose A&M we'd either have to choose to leave someone behind or else go with an even bigger 18-team superconference. It would probably be easier for the ACC to shed 3 teams than 4, however, as not everyone would have a potential home in an expanded Big East or SEC. But as you suggest, at least this (like going for ND) would be a proactive "fighting" move rather than sitting back and waiting to be picked apart, and as unlikely as either notion may seem, stranger things have happened.

tis4tim 6 years, 10 months ago

How I miss the days when college athletics was about athletics.

David Atchley 6 years, 10 months ago

The notion of Notre Dame joining the Big 12 is far-fetched, but more to the point, why would all of the Big 12 schools crying "foul" with the Longhorns exclusive deal with ESPN, not find similiar problems with Notre Dame and their exclusivity with NBC?

Yes, I realize the ESPN deal has far more creativity and long-range thought, than simply a tradional/exlcusive contract with Notre Dame. However, for those of you that think Notre Dame is the elixir to make all things right in the world, Notre Dame has been an "independent school" and all that implies for a very long time.

If you feel like the whipping post for UT and OU, and cry foul at their "independent" nature at times, it makes no sense to your argument, to invite to your Conference someone who portrays "more" independence.

Steve Gantz 6 years, 10 months ago

Because I live near there and so I'd be able to see the 'Hawks! (i agree, there barely a mid major)

texashawk10 6 years, 10 months ago

Tulane is a school that will be forced down to the FCS in a few years because Katrina has completely crippled their athletic department and Tulane has not been close to being competitive since then, not that they were that competitive to begin with prior to Katrina. 6 years later and they still aren't even back to having the same number of athletic programs as they had pre-Katrina. Yes, Tulane is a great academic school, but they simply don't have the fan support or interest to justify an invitation and if this is the type a school that the Big 12 does invite to the conference, KU would be better off in the PAC 12 because Oklahoma wouldn't stick around in a conference with that poor of competition and OU is the one school that if they left, would kill the Big 12.

texashawk10 6 years, 10 months ago

If Tulane is ever in the Big 12, it would be a 12 team conference which means KU would travel there once every 4 years in football and once every 2 years in basketball. Not exactly all the time like you claim it to be. While we're at it, let's add Florida International and any crappy athletic school in a vacation destination. There is no chance in hell of Tulane ever getting an invite to the Big 12 while Texas and OU are in the conference.

texashawk10 6 years, 10 months ago

A good baseball program is your justification now, that's just grasping at straws since baseball is a non-revenue sport.

texashawk10 6 years, 10 months ago

If you knew how businesses operated and made money, you'd know why Tulane and Rice have absolutely no value to any BCS conference. People with your visions on how to run businesses are why America's economy is in the toilet. Try coming up with a list of schools the financially make sense for the Big 12 and see if they're any different from the majority of people's lists. There's a reason why you're the only person who's suggesting 2 schools that struggle to get even 20,000 fans to a football game.

Robert Brock 6 years, 10 months ago

No big-time school is going to be interested in joining the Big XII anytime soon. The conference looks like toast.

Randy Bombardier 6 years, 10 months ago

Why? Because we have not been poachers? The Big12 is not toast unless we do not get aggressive. We have some good football. Some of you people act like this is the ACC we are talking about. I just hope we go after some of the disenfranchised of the SEC who have never won the conference. Why not Kentucky? How about Miss. State?

Robert Brock 6 years, 10 months ago

Why would they leave a solid conference like the SEC to join a failed one? The remaining Big XII members are going to jump at the opportunity to leave.

jhox 6 years, 10 months ago

If you somehow could get Notre Dame, then Arkansas would be more likely to have an interest. Notre Dame would signify an end to the bleeding, and make the Big 12 viable again. If that were to happen, one would think Arkansas would love the opportunity to play OU, Texas, Missouri, Oklahoma State, and ND regularly. To round it out, and make it a 12 team lead again, go after BYU or Houston. Houston is a sleeping giant. Put them in the Big 12, let them play in Reliant Stadium, with the recruiting base in that city, and you've got a top 20 program in no time, and you end the perception of them being a commuter school. A&M would be green with envy, and wondering what on Earth they were thinking.

Randy Bombardier 6 years, 10 months ago

You could be right about Houston. They used to have some great teams with the old Veer Offense.

We could tell ND that 1 million Baptists would become Catholics if they joined the Conference. (Besides, there are many whose real religion is football).

UT needs to come up with a Headstone for AM to plant somewhere in Austin with the words, "Here lies what was once a proud football tradition, sadly taking its own life. August, 2011."

Chris1955 6 years, 10 months ago

UH hasn't draw fans to their games in the nearly 20 years I've lived in Houston. They are never mentioned on sports radio here in Houston. They are a non-entity here, behind the pro sports teams, UT, and TAMU.

The Big 12 is finished in its current format. We're geographically vulnerable from poaching from nearly all directions. No other major conference is in this same situation. Additionally, outside of Texas, there are no real TV markets in the Big 12 that excite advertisers, hence bring in the BIG $$$$.

UT will go independent sooner or later, they seem themselves as a national brand. TAMU is gone, just a matter of when they announce it. So, where does KU end up? That's my friend is the question that we're all wanting to have answered. I think our best outcome is the Big TEN, but the football history of KU makes this very iffy.

Tony Bandle 6 years, 10 months ago

1] Notre Dame will convert to Judaism before joining the Not So Big 12.

2] Matt, totally agree...Texas A&M has not only burned down all the bridges but has also blown up the dam to make the way back over the river impassable.

3] Simplest resolution..don't panic, get BYU in A&M's place. The Cougars bring BOTH basketball as well as football credibilty to the league and they get a share of the sweetheart FOX deal. {and it's not that much farther away than Boulder]

4] Once you have re-established some stability, then look to expand.

Of course all of this great advice will be ignored by the clowns running the Big Top 12 circus!!!

Maybe we REALLY think out of the box and go with an independent class of Kansas, BYU, Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Oklahoma State and who ever else is marketable but wants a better deal!!??

Tony Bandle 6 years, 10 months ago

Yeah, but there's a church on every corner!!! :)

texashawk10 6 years, 10 months ago

I'm guessing that people who are into skiing and other winter activities would love to be able to make a vacation out of trip to Provo given its proximity to the Wasatch Range.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 10 months ago

Folks, Notre Dame's TV contract with NBC is only just over 9 million dollars a year. And it is in place through at least 2015. Even with the basketball money from the Big East, a new Big 12 contract in addition to their own "self" network potential would mean Notre Dame should be able to maximize it's money by joining the Big 12.

Furthermore, the ratings have dropped significantly over the last half decade (which is what happens when you don't play games people care about). They bottomed out at a 1.9 share in 2008 and I doubt they have come back up. They are on the slide, it is a pain in the ass for them to schedule teams, they need a conference, they are not making any more money right now then what the Big 12, Big 10, and SEC will be making.

In short, Notre Dame needs the Big 12, the problem is they might be too stupid and stubborn to realize it.

Actually, for NBC to still pay them big bucks must mean a bishop has dirty pictures of some NBC executives. Something involving farm animals or something...

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Exactly. It has the possibility to be the best of both worlds for ND: keep their TV contract and be included in conference revenue sharing. Plus, think of the ratings increase they will see when they play Texas and OU every year, and they most certainly will continue to play Michigan.

There are a lot of positives for Notre Dame that people aren't seeing in them joining the conference. Not saying it will happen, but the chances are higher then many are suggesting.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 10 months ago

Yeah man, can you imagine the Big 12 football season if BYU and Notre Dame were in a renewed north division? Those two schools would form a serious rivalry that any network in the country would wet themselves to broadcast. I have no emotional ties to either school and I would watch that game.

Couple that with a Big 12 title game that has potential matchups of UT/OU vs. BYU/ND and the Big 12 could be one of the strongest conferences in the country.

However, fat cows are more apt to just sit there and eat the grass they have. Bud Selig has been operating with that mindset in baseball for decades, it has really worked out well for baseball...

rob4lb 6 years, 10 months ago

A bold move would stop the bleeding. Given that the Big 10 and Big East have tried for years to pressure ND to become a football member, it is hard to imagine they would be convince to join an unstable Big 12.

I think, in order to be viable, the conference needs to get to 12 members and have a championship game. The perception of the conference now is that it is set up so that UT or OU can more easily get into the BCS championship. Essentially, these schools will play a weaker schedule in a weaker conference. You don't think the school will penalized in the polls for not playing a conference championship game when 4 of the 6 conferences now have championship game.

Right now the conference has no vision. It was, everyone play everyone. Then, it's we can survive with 9 teams, but we could get to 12 if we wanted to. Despite all of that, the best option for KU is to work toward to stable Big 12.

Clarence Haynes 6 years, 10 months ago

I spoke with a Notre Dame Alum about this and his response was "not in our lifetime"! Beebe might give Notre Dame a call, but will they answer?

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 10 months ago


Mizzou's president graduated from tenn and worked for kentucky and the sec commissioner has ties to Mizzou.

Anyone that suggest ND to the big12 will get automatically deleted from the message boards. No way would they come to a league where there worst games are against ku, KSU, and ISU. When in the big10 their worst games would be in state rivals iu, pu (hahaha) and northwestern. Remember even if you have a network or tv deal, people still have to watch.

Oh, and, If you think UT has a big ego, ever met a ND fan? They haven't been relevant since that old guy that with a droopy face that slurs and slobbers all over himself on espns college game day was younger. Should tell you something.

rob4lb 6 years, 10 months ago

Interesting comment about ND fans. I lived in Houston in the 80s and at the time, A&M dominated the SWC. I never in the world thought there could more arrogant, egotistical fans than Aggie fans. Then I moved to Chicago, during the Lou Holtz days at ND and realized that ND fans were even worse. I have been back in Texas for the last 13 years and now UT compares to ND.

Of course success breeds some arrogance. Not that anyone ever thought KU basketball fans were arrogant!!!

gchawk 6 years, 10 months ago

Good article, Matt. I was thinking the same thing about A & M. Their decision to leave was basically a foregone conclusion when they announced that their meeting was moved up to Monday, the only problem was that the SEC didn't care to dance with them at this time. My feelings about A&M is: "Once the milk is sour, there's no reason the put it back in the refrigerator". From now until they leave they will always be the disenchanted stepchild.

justinryman 6 years, 10 months ago

At this point the SEC is saying to A&M, "You need to break up with your current girlfriend before you crawl into our bed."

Once that is done, then they will be fast tract into the SEC schedule next year.

jgkojak 6 years, 10 months ago

1) Good riddance.

2) A pitch must be made to Notre Dame, one they can't turn down. TX and OK would support whatever is necessary to bring them in, because they understand the incredible exposure they would bring this conference. Now... that said, ND will turn down a pitch, but the rest of the college world needs to see the B12 making serious noise about expansion. Also, no way Mizzou even dreams of leaving with ND (serious Catholic population in St Louis) on board.

3) That said, we need to go after Arkansas. Again, they'll say no. But put a little sweat on the brow of the SEC.

4) And then we come to BYU and Air Force. I am almost thinking that Air Force is the better choice for a 10 team Big 12, and BYU could come in if we expand.

Why Air Force? 1) Geographic proximity - no further, really, than Texas Tech. 2) Colorado is already familiar with the B12, and KU fans in CO/Denver area could just as easily make the trip down I-25 (you can see the stadium from the interstate) to catch a KU-Air Force basketball or football game. 3) Air Force games are broadcast WORLDWIDE to bases. Even though Texas vs Air Force would likely be a blowout- it would generate a LOT of interest. Think about KU being seen 2x a year in basketball and once a year in football on our bases - how's that for brand recognition of both the Jayhawk and the B12? 4) Air Force will, without hesitation, join the B12, and would, like Baylor or K-State, have no choice but to be a loyal stalwart. We need another member like that. 5) Academics. Though not a major research institution, brings a VERY high standard, and is one team that certainly would raise the bar on behavior of student athletes. A plus all the way around.

Air Force Sagarin ratings: Basketball #126 Football #40 -- better than KU

Robert Brock 6 years, 10 months ago

This is a fantasy. The Big XII is finished; no big-time schools will join the crumbling conference now. Forget BYU, ND, Arkansas, and all the big-time schools that you can come up with. The question is whether the Remaining Nine would take any reasonable offer to jump ship and further collapse this house of cards.

Sam Constance 6 years, 10 months ago

Finished? Crumbling conference?

You're listening to too many Cornhusker (and now Aggie) radio broadcasts, pal.

The glue that holds this conference together is the existence of Texas and Oklahoma. The two big-time college football power-players that fuel the engine (money) that drives college football and therefore conference alignment.

Texas and Oklahoma have NO REASON to leave. They are in a great position that cannot possibly be improved by going independent (Texas) or bolting for another conference (OU). The Big 12 has a lucrative TV deal, and a reserved spot in line at the BCS bowl game table. Texas being in the Big 12 helps all the other schools. And the presence of all the other schools (and a guaranteed game schedule) helps Texas. Sure they could bake their own pie by going independent, with all their resources, or they can have a huge slice of a much bigger pie by collaborating with the rest of the Big 12.

Throw in the fact that staying together in the Big 12 avoids the nasty issue of crazy travel for away games, and staying in the Big 12 becomes the only real intelligent move. The only risk to the Big 12 is that not all member schools use reason and logic when making decisions. Case in point: the Texas A&M Foolies.

Sam Constance 6 years, 10 months ago

Obviously not.

Unfotunately, to everyone except Foolie fans, the idea that the Big 12 is held together by the presence of the two most relevant football schools in the conference--Texas and Oklahoma--is a simple fact, not a fantasy.

Only an A&M fan would delude themselves into believing that A&M turning tail will somehow hurt the Big 12. Good riddance.

Ozarkace68 6 years, 10 months ago

The Aggies are in the process of becoming their own biggest joke. They may be moving from a conference where they may have a fighting chance to be an upper division football finisher to a conference where they will be scratching to make the Music City Bowl, as someone said. As far as basketball is concerned, their chances there went east with Mark. Then again it could take a while for the SEC to find a team to fill the balance on the east side. There is much room to be snide about balancing out with the Aggie nation but it may not be that easy. In the meantime we should give the Aggies the send off they deserve and ignore them when they come to visit. I believe stealing TCU would still be a good move. There is a basketball venue they could borrow until they can find a suitable home in Ft. Worth. They have no business in the Big East and neither do we. The Aggies are now the red headed step children of the Big XII and have to leave or face humiliation at every road game. Their selfishness and envy have soiled the brand. They have done one favor they have provided the Big XII with a unity of purpose going forward and we can thank them for that. The old hang together or we shall hang separately applies.

Hank Cross 6 years, 10 months ago

The idea that ND would come to the B12 is flat-out absurd. It blew off the B10 last year; a conference with better academics than the B12, more ties to ND and more people in geographic footprint than the B12. This year ND plays teams from the B10, ACC, P12, and the service academies. And they're going to give up that nation-wide presence to play in Ames and Lubbock? Doesn't even come close to making sense.

OTOH, BYU might not be so far-fetched. Here's a BYU blog that puts some fairly convincing arguments together.

If the league is to stick together, I'd like to see the other teams grow a spine and tell UT that if it wants to add Houston, BYU and AFA must be added to the North.

Hank Cross 6 years, 10 months ago

Another plus for BYU is that they would come into the league with a ready-made feud with MU based on history. They can play for the Gov. Lilburn Boggs Cup.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 10 months ago

"And they're going to give up that nation-wide presence to play in Ames and Lubbock?"

Nationwide presence like Kalamazoo, MI and Tulsa, OK last year?

I understand your points, and they certainly are fair. I realize the long shot in ND joining, but there are some positives. Aside from the network deals, playing Texas and OU every year along with rival Michigan will have a big boost on their ratings. Plus, they will extend into Texas, increasing their recruiting value there. Recruits from Texas can go play at Notre Dame AND know they will be able to come home and play once or twice a year. Don't devalue that power.

Again, it is a long shot; when it was first suggested, I literally laughed out loud. However, I then started seeing reasons why it would benefit ND. I'm just saying, it's not a complete impossibility. Certainly the Big 12 should throw everything they have at them.

Chris1955 6 years, 10 months ago

ND recruits nationally and has done so for years. They also STILL have high academic standard for admittance into ND for football players; hence, a big reason for their lackluster on the field performance for the past two decades.

This university still lives in its past, still believes that they have a nationwide following, and still believes in their old TV commercial catch phrase "it's not just football, it's Notre Dame Football!"

Summary: They do NOT compromise.

Andy Tweedy 6 years, 10 months ago

Last year, there was some talk of an alliance between the Big XII and the Pac-10. Obviously, that didn't happen. But why not some sort of an alliance between the Big XII and maybe the ACC. Two seperate conferences that have non-conference agreements in place and share some form of TV deal. Just an idea, maybe it wouldn't work. Either way, why in the world would BYU want to join the Big XII. CU didn't like being the last outpost, why would BYU. And Air Force? Why not invite Navy and Army while we're at it, nobody watches their games either! I agree that no big time school is going to leave another BCS conference for the Big XII, so we're back to TCU. I still say hitch our wagons to MU and OU and get the heck out while the getting is good. Maybe try to sell the SEC on a 3-team parlay and sink A&M in the process.

rob4lb 6 years, 10 months ago

If the Aggies go, the Big 12 needs to add teams. It won't Arkansas or Notre Dame. One criteria to look at is average home attendance. Here is last year's attendance for some of the more popular expansion candidates: Cincinnati 35.0K BYU 61.3K TCU 42.6K AFA 40.0K Houston 31.7K L'ville 50.6K

BYU is a no brainer. It would be tied with MU for 4th in the Big 12 last year behind UT, A&M and OU. Baylor had the lowest attendance in the Big 12 last year at 40.0K (KU was next to last at 44.8K-though was at 50.5K in 2009).

I was surprised by Louisville. They have a 56,000 seat stadium making it bigger than KU, KS, IS, Bay. They may be a viable second candidate.

texashawk10 6 years, 10 months ago

Houston is hampered by having a stadium that only seats 32,000 and basketball arena that only sits a little under 9,000. However, UH is in the process of raising funds to rebuild Robertson to a 40,000 seat stadium with the ability to expand to 50,000 seats. The more likely scenario if UH ever does get a Big 12 invite, which I do think will happen if the Big 12 drops to 8 schools and tries to expand back to 12, is for Houston to move to Reliant Stadium for football and Toyota Center for basketball. While we're both in agreement about Houston not being a good option for getting back to 10 schools, I do think they will be an option to get back to 12 teams for the Big 12 along with another Texas school such as an SMU or UTEP and then adopt an SEC type schedule with a protected "rivalry" from the other division to preserve the OU-Texas game in October and set up a potential OU-Texas Big 12 title game as well. The only two real rivalries that needed to be preserved in the SEC when they went to divisional play were Alabama-Tennessee and Auburn-Georgia so I don't see the Big 12 doing the same thing as being a big issue.

jgkojak 6 years, 10 months ago

Yes, BYU is a no-brainer, and really, is an even trade for A&M.

I still argue that Air Force could possibly make more sense from a B12 branding standpoint -

Which B12 school or the Air Force has the most alumni?

The Air Force.

The armed services network = another major city, plus B12 fans in Colorado.

Also, when all is said and done, the Big East will likely add Army and Navy (after they're poached for members when this all goes down).

Hank Cross 6 years, 10 months ago

Your take on AFA is dead on. When people talk about the relevancy of the Colorad Springs market, they forget that it is the named the United States AFA, not the Colorado Springs AFA. World-wide exposure on the AFN would be a definite plus for the conference. Either AFA or BYU would be solid adds.

David Atchley 6 years, 10 months ago

Kansas fans...with the vision of your chancellor and the following "search committee members" she appointed, here is who your frustration and letters, radio station calls, should be directed at...this "brain-trust" for the continued mediocrity and poor choices in hiring.

 Ray Evans Jr. manager, Pegasus Capital Management.

— Kenneth L. Audus, dean of the KU School of Pharmacy and professor of pharmaceutical chemistry — Ritch Price, head baseball coach at KU — Linda Ellis Sims, account executive with ExxonMobil Corp. — Debbie Van Saun, associate athletics director/senior women’s administrator — Thomas Ward, president and CEO of Russell Stover Candies in Kansas City, Mo.

If you want to have a firm understanding of why the Kansas football program continues to languish in mediocrity, you don't have to look much further than this list of people that hired the latest round of "seat fillers."

You don't have any football people making decisions on who to interview, much less who to hire. (yes I realize ray evans junior was on KU's football team, largely due to the All American efforts of his father)

Their "comfort" level and apparent expertise was to limit their search to the "Missouri Valley Conference." That would be a great idea if this was 1970. However, in the changing climate of football and realignment, network dollars and reduction in alumni contributions, All these folks managed to do was set the Kansas football program back even farther, in arguably the most critical time in college football history. .

All this "esteemed" cast managed to do is pick the lowest hanging fruit possible to fill the vacancies. By all accounts they simply didn't grasp the entire landscape of college football, much less understand how critical of selections were needed to control the fate of Kansas University Football. .

Instead of going out and hiring people with reputations at bigger universities than Kansas, hiring from staffs of Athletic Directors and successful football programs, the apparent consensus is lets take our second choice from Illinois State and lets give this head coach from the University of Bufflalo a "chance."

Its more than coincidence that Kansas found themselves back in the same place this past week, "hoping" they could be a packaged deal with some of the other schools being courted. It also found them on several pre-season polls ranked to finish "10th" in the Big 12 (again) Only with 10 teams, it will be a more brutal schedule this season, because Kansas has to play every team in the Conference. The bigger question, is how much longer will Bill Self endure the uncertainty and calamity.

Until Kansas fans and alumni demand better representation for a search committee, from its athletic department, from its State government and University, they should cheer loudly for whatever decisions OU and UT make, as ultimately, it will be in their best interest as well.

David Atchley 6 years, 10 months ago

Quite the contrary....I am also the occasional fan of your posts as well. As I have stated under previous posts, I have nothing against the likes of the new A.D. or the new head coach. They both have gotten opportunities seldom/ever afforded to people with similar resumes'. The bigger point is the entire process is broken, and it starts from the chancellor's decision making of the search committee and from all examples, they were simply out over their skis to have a bigger vision for the football team.

You see, the only "apology" I perceive is necessary, is from these people and their lack of competitve nature.

You could have achieved your point by bringing in people with glowing resume's, just done so from the ranks of the "have's" and not the have nots. I beat this proverbial drum when I continually read the naivety and amnesia afforded some of the Jayhawk faithfull when they suggest "where" might be a good fit for Kansas, or "what" conference should consider them.

My point is the accountability and the "public" list of search committee members and chancellor are part of the broken system called Kansas Football. I am sure these "search committee people" are nice folks, good at what they do elsewhere, but they were responsible for decisions that didn't better the Kansas football chances of weathering the storms ahead. Until it is addressed from the inside, its wasted breath trying to control what happens on the outside.

David Atchley 6 years, 10 months ago

The difference is simple...At OU Castiglione and at UT Dodds, have assembled the best assistant/associate A.D.s in the country. At Texas, Deloss Dodds is getting long in the tooth, but make no mistake, he still has the loudest roar in the State.

However, not all of his assistants can be tapped to fill his chair upon his retirement in a couple of years. Same is true at OU, or Alabama, or LSU...etc. The same holds true with hiring staff. You saw West VA new A.D. Oliver Luck swoop in and hire Holgerson away from Oklahoma State, Not too long ago, and assistant at Florida "Bob Stoops" was hired by Castiglione at OU.

Florida recently hired UT's "coach in waiting" Will Muschamp to replace Urban Meyer. Again, the philosophy is the assistant A.D.s do all the work and the strategic planning is the job of A.D. Same is true with the Head Coach.

All of these assistants would have been better poised to fill the vacancies at Kansas then lowering their sites to the Missouri Valley Conference or the Mid American Conference.

So the question and direction obviously missed by the esteemed search committee is "do you want someone from the trenches, with the understanding of the state of the union, that has poised their current University to be bigger and better...or do you want someone to bring their magic from Illinois State?

Same is true for the football side. Who cares that he graduated from Nebraska 20 years hire someone from the far east coast, who has no recruiting relationships in any of the high schools in the Big 12, and bring in someone from the University of Buffalo?

Like I said....the chancellor and this search committee did nothing to better the chances of Kansas Football...if anything, it appears weaker to the rest of world, most notably the other conferences.

Randy Bombardier 6 years, 10 months ago

I see no need to publicly insult these people who are very successful in what they do. I suspect they do not operate in a void. The problem is with KU fans being so fickle with a loyalty that is obviously conditional upon success. If the BB team had a down year and we were to finish last in the Big 12 by the end of the season even Allen Field House would be half-empty.

Hank Cross 6 years, 10 months ago

Tear out the track, build a stadium that puts the Cowboys' stadium to shame, sell out every game - And the best KU could reasonably hope for year-in and year- out would be 3rd Place. OU and UT are too established to ever be eclipsed by KU. Same situation as was in the B8 with OU and NE. The state simply isn't big enough to provide enough talent to challenge OU and UT. That's not going to change.

As for Zenger, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Last year KU was publicly scrambling and looking desparate compounded by Lew's resigantion right in the middle of chaos. This year most scenarios have KU landing in a BCS conference one way or the other.

Sparko 6 years, 10 months ago

Look, no major conference wants A&M. This conference was a face-saver. But that whole 1.2B TV contract is the elephant in courthouse. They screwed this up. Badly. If they leave, it will be in several years.

Hammertoe 6 years, 10 months ago

Any conference with Football Power's Texas and Oklahoma has a strong foundation to succeed. IF A and M leaves (which they will regret in a few years), why not make a move to get ND. Sounds crazy but what do we have to lose. If not ND, BYU. The best situation for KU, KSU and MU is to keep the Big 12 intact. Traveling 2 time zones to the west for the PAC 10 makes no sense. Think of the travel problems for all the other teams (volleyball, baseball, etc) University Presidents have a bigger scope of problems than just what it best for the basketball team....

justinryman 6 years, 10 months ago

"Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream until your dreams come true Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream until your dream comes through Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream On"


Randy Bombardier 6 years, 10 months ago

The strategy to expand the conference needs to target the big boys as a matter of course. Some of you think we should be "realistic" and neglect the Arkansas's and the Notre Dames of the college football world. That would be foolish. The lack of a conference championship game could be exactly what would interest Arkansas or ND. Arkansas has yet to win a conference in two decades in the SEC. Realizing that they could immediately compete not only for the Conference title but also a shot at the NC game is huge, folks. That is huge. It is what every fan wants. You talk about being realists. Look at Arkansas and be a realist. Will they ever win a NC in the SEC? A realist would say, Never, Ever. Is that acceptable for Arkansas fans? Is it acceptable to you? The answer is obvious. I am sorry but I have to say to some of you what you have said to anyone who dares to think differently, but you are a moron if you don't see this. You are an absolute idiot if you don't think Arkansas fans and Alum get this.

Therefore, since everyone in Arkansas gets it, we should too. We need to make that case and the same to Kentucky (Wonderful basketball addition, don't you think? Talk about a new rivalry.) if, if we have already made the pitch to ND without the prospect of a Conference title game and they decline.

In summary, first pitch to ND, second Arkansas and Kentucky (goal being 11 members, a little margin in case MU still has a wandering eye.) Then, if along the way there seems to be support amongst the new schools for a Conference Championship game, we go for 12 and look at BYU, Air Force, and others.

If we have no success with either ND or Arkansas it would be wise to then try to get back up to 12. My opinion. I do not think we should overlook Colorado State. Their rate of growth should be considered.

justinryman 6 years, 10 months ago

Only problem a conference with 12 or more teams usually has a Championship game. If a team with less than 12 the NCAA says they don't need one. That's why right now with the round robin format in football with the Big12 they don't have a Championship game, and it's also why the Big10 went from 11 to 12 added a championship football game as did the PAC12.

The SEC already has their game as so does the ACC.

So going back up to 12 by adding Arkansas and ND wouldn't make a lot of sense by your point of selling them on the chance to win a Conference title, because it will have to be won in a title game.

jgkojak 6 years, 10 months ago

Good argument on Kentucky - they're not coming, but a feeler should be sent.

Also Arkansas... we also have to remember they are a natural rival for MU - which gives MU one more reason to stick around and one less to think SEC.

And its true - you want to play in a BCS game in this lifetime? A #15 ranked Arkansas team could get there in a down year for the B12 (see Texas' season) - either OK and TX are down and you play one game for the whole enchilada. There are a lot more obstacles in the SEC.

Arkansas has gotta at least blink.

And Ark. + BYU is a mighty attractive 12 team conference.

Ark + BYU + Air Force + TCU/Houston/Memphis is a hell of attractive 16 team conference.

David Atchley 6 years, 10 months ago

Geographically, Arkansas makes a lot of sense, and statistically, they would certainly enjoy being able to legitimately compete (their star running back appears to be out for the season)

However, if you think TAMU has disdain and hatred for all things UT....trace the steps back to the decisions made when the SWC and Big 8 merged, to learn why the Razorbacks would never want to be in the same Conference with UT or OU....

justinryman 6 years, 10 months ago

I was wondering if anyone was going to bring up the points about TX and ARK. Lets face it Texas has ruined 2 conferences and is trying to finish of the Big12, there is no way ARK would come back and deal with them.

Sam Constance 6 years, 10 months ago

The Big 12 is not in trouble. I think most of the power brokers in the conference, if given a choice, would prefer to have A&M remain rather than leave, but in the long run, this will not harm the conference.

Well, unless A&M leaving convinces other schools that they need to channel their inner insecurity, which is always a possibility when it comes to things like sports and school pride, where emotions can run high.

David Atchley 6 years, 10 months ago

Here's a brief snapshot historically of the rivalry between Texas and Arkansas. You'd have to recall the big rivalry at the time in the Big 8 Conference was Oklahoma and Nebraska....the big rivalry in the Southwest Conference was the Longhorns and the Razorbacks, This game even had a name "The Southwest Classic"

The SWC had a rule that forbid any referee that lived in the State of Arkansas from working a game involving the University of Arkansas. Understandable, except there was no rule forbidding a ref calling a game involving his alma mater.

As a result, Arkansas played every conference game against a team from Texas with refs from Texas, often with refs that graduated from the school Arkansas was playing against. In football, Arkansas had a winning record against every school but UT and in basketball Arkeansas absolutely dominated. UT hadn't emerged yet as a legitimate basketball school.

There are the Razorback faithful that contend they suffered numerous "questionable" calls that cost them big games, the most notorious of which was the one that nullified a TD against UT in 69. Its possible there's a bushel of sour grapes in their contention as the Longhorns went on to an 11-0 season and defeated Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl to win their "second" National Championship. Kansas fans may recall a similar feat accomplished by their basketball squad a couple of years ago, and in 88' and I believe in 52'.

The Razorbacks will insist it should have been them playing for the national championship that year, and also handed a similar fate in 1978.

The Razorback faithfull will also contend The old SWC schools other than Arkansas are among the most notorious NCAA violators. SMU, Tamu, Houston, and Texas Tech took turns being convicted of the 'most infractions ever.' Texas and Baylor were also no strangers to the NCAA infractions committee. Some SEC schools (Bama) are also known for cheating but none compare to what was going on in Texas at the time.

You see, Razorback fans, though getting long in the tooth from the years of carrying this hatred around, have as much disdain for Texas Tech and Baylor as they do UT. When the Big 12 was formed, the politics played on the floor of the State Capital in Austin, is still talked about. Nobody wanted either school, but Tech being a State school and Ann Richards a Baylor grad, made sure both were included moving forward.

Until a few generations of Razorback fans, go to that big hog trough in the sky, there will be an uprising in the State of Arkansas at the mere discussion of any association with the Big 12. As it will inevitably be with TAMU's eventual fate, the Razorbacks are more content being in the bottom tier of the SEC standings, then any association with the Big 12.

David Atchley 6 years, 10 months ago

Don't get me wrong...I would love to see Arkansas join Big 12, that would be quite a coup with TAMU inevitable departure. It would immediatlely replace a UT rivalry with their arch nemesis.

It would be the great equalizer to attract Arkansas, and I would imagine those turncoats in Columbia would create a more formidable rivalry in football then with Kansas. Arkansas has always been a two sport school and the Big 12 needs another one of significance.

Since its a big "if" I think if Arkansas defected from the may put some pressure on LSU to consider the same. They have reaped the rewards of controlling East Texas/Northeast Texas (minus the "Tyler Rose") particularly in linemen and again, keeping the Big 12 "regionalized" it would make sense to have both Arkansas and LSU. After all....if you didn't have UT, Arkansas and LSU...there would be now town called "Texarkana"

However, as I pointed will be an uprising among the Razorback fan base, simply due to the history I shared. However, if it were to happen...the game day atmosphere between UT and Arkansas would make any Soccer game in Great Britain shrink in comparison!

Phoggin_Loud 6 years, 10 months ago

Regarding Notre Dame, I do think their fans are too arrogant to want a Conference. However...

At some point, as 16-team Conferences appear, ND will have NO ONE to schedule. All it would take is for a few AD's to refuse to schedule "Independents". This is not so far-fetched when they are forced to play 15 other conference teams. AD"s will continue to "build-in" wins in the non-con as often as possible especially as the size, and competitiveness, of the Conferences grow.

Wake up, ND. The era of Independence is coming to an end.

jgkojak 6 years, 10 months ago

And no way the B10 supports Notre Dame to have its indy TV contracts -

the Big 12 will.

The Big East is not good enough football competition. If they want to return to greatness in football, its going to run through a conference.

That should be the Big 12.

BYU + Notre Dame + Air Force = 3 schools with national audiences.

Randy Bombardier 6 years, 10 months ago

And if you think Jerry Jones is just sitting on the sidelines in regard to his Alma Mater you are simply naive. The above cowpie by Muscle is not accurate at all. Arkansas was in a position of being left out in the cold. Had absolutely nothing to do with rivalries. This is going to work, folks. I see great things in store for a newly ambitious conference. It is about time.

Steve Gantz 6 years, 10 months ago

I see one team that I'd like to see in the B12 (other than enticing someone from a major conference), and that's BYU. The others? Here's my take: Air Force- A mid major in basketball, barely relevant in football Houston-Have had some runs but it's a commuter school, not what the conference needs. TCU- Do they play basketball there? Tulane- Minor league Memphis- May have a little stronger case than others, but it's still a commuter/not in the nations' eye type of school. ND- Barack Obama has a better chance of winning the conservative vote in November than for this happening. If A&M goes to the SEC, we ought to try to go with them, although, football, ouch!

David Atchley 6 years, 10 months ago

All interesting takes on the possible candidates....TCU does play basketball...and as far as Kansas current Football Program, or lack thereof, unfortunately the Big 10 and SEC and PAC 12 view the Jayhawks in similar fashion as your take on Memphis, Houston and Air Force. Kansas brings to the table an elite basketball program,much like Memphis or Houston, even Notre Dame had a respectable basketball season last year.

However, this issue and criteria is football. Kansas finished last in the conference last year, and pre-season polls have them dominating that position again this season. They bring no geographical recruiting advantage or television markets that any of these conferences need or desire. Again, with the current state of football affairs at Kansas, with no discernable change in the forseeable future, they're better served cheering loudly for UT and OU, and enjoy the television revenues and bowl money percentages, the Jayhawks enjoy from the continued heavy lifting of these two schools.

Remember boys and girls...."It's better to dance with the devil you know....than the devil you don't."

Sam Constance 6 years, 10 months ago

"Kansas brings to the table an elite basketball program,much like Memphis or Houston, even Notre Dame had a respectable basketball season last year."

Agree that football revenue is ultimately what's driving all of this. However, there is a huge difference between Kansas basketball and about every school in the country (except for a few) when it comes to basketball.

Kansas Basketball is a national brand, with a robust national following. One of the major conferences will recognize this and realize that in spite of the fact that KU football is mediocre at best, their athletic department brings viewers to the table, just in a different manner than the guaranteed, conference-wide TV contracts that go with football. Kansas brings eyes to the table because they have fans everywhere, in spite of the local viewership footprint being small.

I'm with you about KU staying attached to Texas and OU. If nothing else, KU is better suited to stay in it's own geographic footprint, rather than dealing with having road games on the East or West coasts. Just pointing out that the fear of Kansas landing in the MAC or some other mini-conference, is unfounded, imho.

David Atchley 6 years, 10 months ago

IMHO...I concur. Kansas has enjoyed being counted among the elite basketball programs, but that's like bringing a poodle to a pheasant hunt. There are many that will argue a poodle is a french hunting dog and make a valid case on why it should be allowed to hunt. For the rest of the boys, standing with their prize labrador retrievers or english pointers, will scoff at the novelty.

Both Memphis and Houston have enjoyed their basketball programs basking in the national spotlight, they simply aren't found when the founder of Basketball is portrayed. It is a national brand....but remember, Indiana and is still named among the elite and they haven't been relevant for years. Oklahoma and Kansas State used to be among the top 25 programs at one time as well. Basketball in the SEC or Texas, is a luxury bought and paid for by football revenue and football television contracts.

The University of Texas, and Baylor as well as TAMU have become legitimate national basketball schools and certainly formidable. Unfortunately Texas has one of the best recruiting classes year end/out, and can't get the UT fans to show up at a game. The Irwin Center against Kansas will be 3/4 full.

Football is king in Texas and in the SEC. Basketball is something football fans in these states watch after hunting season and "if" their alma mater is in the Sweet 16. There are "2" major sports in Texas and the SEC and that's 1. Football 2. Spring Football . Baseball is the number "2" sport in the SEC and Texas and if you notice the College World Series the last 10 years, they do a pretty good job at that sport as well.

jgkojak 6 years, 10 months ago

Best Case (by far): The Big 12 stays together in some fashion, even without MU.

Worst Case: Kansas ends up in an expanded Big East (12 teams in football, two 10-team divisions in basketball). In that scenerio - most of our Big East (West Division) opponents are not too bad from a travel standpoint (Marquette, DePaul, Notre Dame, Memphis, Louisville, Cinci, etc). Likewise, the basketball competition keeps us as a top tier basketball school and will not detract from our recruiting base or from kids wanting to play for us. I hate the Big East, but it won't kill our basketball. (Sorry, KSU, say hello to the Mountain West).

Be Careful What You Wish For: Pac-12. You do NOT want to have most of your road games aired at Midnight on the east coast. It will kill our east-coast recruiting. And except for Colorado, travel distances are a nightmare.

KGphoto 6 years, 10 months ago

Wake me when it's over and we are the last team selected into The Big 16. Which will still be called the Big 10.

I'll tell you all about my nightmare that involved years of meaningless argument and guessing.

Tait, I know you can't come right out and say it here, because the topic is gonna fill up a whooooooooooole lotta deadlines, but you know this conference is done. You would have to be an idiot or a child not to see the writing on the wall.

mikehawk 6 years, 10 months ago

We could only hope for Notre Dame. It won't happen. I still think A&M is on ego crack with their feelings all hurt. Not only leaving Texas for the SEC soothes their egos, I think the bonus is they believe the Big 12 with fold without them, further repairing their bruised self-image which sees only a Longhorn every time they look in the mirror at themselves. Hopefully, the Big 12 (or is it the Big One) is going on full recruitment mode right now because with or without A&M we have room to expand. The best defense is a good offense, both on the field and off. Everyone keeps talking about Texas, but a guy down here in Oklahoma named David Boren at OU needs to be put on point on this deal as he is one serious dude when it comes to being persuasive and powerful. It time (past time) to bring in the big guns.

Randy Bombardier 6 years, 10 months ago

ESPN wants four mega-conferences. That is the vision, they have openly said so, of course as a prediction, not as a goal. The reason for that is they want to create a de facto national championship through such a structure. Apparently, some conferences believe this and they are taking action. So, who are those conferences?

Big 10 Pac12 SEC and who? Big East? ACC? Mountain West?

The obvious answer is that we pretty much have to go that way or the Big East will. Who is it going to be, the Big East or the Big12.

texashawk10 6 years, 10 months ago

Here's a hypothetical for all of you people complaining KU having late start times if they ever end up in the PAC 12, would be PAC 16 if they expand again. For this hypothetical let's say that OU is lead in this and takes OSU, KU and KSU with them to the PAC 16. You can substitute Missouri or Texas Tech for KState because it makes little difference in this analogy.

Now you might asking yourself how scheduling for a 16 team football conference would work. Well good news, the WAC had 16 football teams for a few years in the mid to late 90's (1996-1999). The way their schedule worked was that they had 4 pods of 4 teams. Pod 1 was Hawaii, SDSU, SJSU, and Fresno St., Pod 2 was UNLV, Air Force, CSU, and Wyoming, Pod 3 was BYU, Utah, New Mexico, and UTEP, and Pod 4 was TCU, SMU, Tulsa, and Rice. Pods 1 and 4 were always in opposite divisions and Pods 2 and 3 were paired with 1 and 4 and would rotate every two years. Applying this setup to a 16 team PAC conference would probably have the pods set up like this:

Pod 1: Washington, Washington St., Oregon, Oregon St. Pod 2: Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA Pod 3: Arizona, Arizona St., Colorado, Utah Pod 4: Kansas, Kansas St., Oklahoma, Oklahoma St.

This means that for football, KU would play at most 2 games in the Pacific time zone and there's no guarantee that either would be a night game so I fail to see why scheduling for football would be a big concern. As for basketball, KU would likely play 6 or 7 games at most in the Pacific time zone (not counting conference tournament games) and only the weekday games would be guaranteed to be 9 pm tips in the Central time zone so KU would likely play less than 5 out of 31 regular season games with a 9 pm tip so again, not a big issue if you have to stay up a little later than normal less than 10 times during the course of the year for KU football/basketball games. I don't see that as a huge sacrifice to be made and if this is the biggest holdup in thinking the Big East is a better fit than the PAC 12, you really need to get a better argument than having to stay up late a few times a year.

Randy Bombardier 6 years, 10 months ago

Related to that, now the Big East Commissioner wants to meet with Big12 and ACC? I think they see the handwriting on the wall. I say be careful here. We are the lead dog for the last mega-conference. We have no reason to meet with them. This is survival of the fittest. Thanks, Darwin, you moron.

Brian Skelly 6 years, 10 months ago

Regardless of what shakes down from here on out, the ONLY way I see the Big 12 getting a stable footing is adding more teams.

Im still convinced not be aggressive on this front is Beebe's and the powers that be biggest crime.

If people, teams, schools want to go elsewhere, so be it. But dont sit there waiting for more teams to get picked off or leave. For the life of me I cant understand that. I just cant.

It's obvious to all at this point that going the way of the "Super-Mega-Hyper-Conference" is the direction this is all heading. So instead of getting picked apart like carcass on the road... GO GET SOME SCHOOLS.

I think the Notre Dame idea is total pie in the sky pipe dream. But there is literally NO downside to pursuing them. None. They've rebuffed all comers, and will do the same again. There's no shame in being turned down at the dance by the prettiest girl. And you may even get her.

To be honest, after that, I dont much care who we get. I agree that the other teams being bantied about (BYU, Air Force, TCU) have logical appeal here. Id think all 3 would be interested, but if im correct TCU is set to go to the Big East.

At this point though, I see no upside to simply getting to 12 though. I think we need to stake out 16. I dont even see the sense of that personally. But unless we wanna end up in the Big East, Pac-16 or wherever we end up these guys need to think long term.

Getting big enough to avoid being a "target" would help that.

Kyle Sybesma 6 years, 10 months ago

I can't beleive how blind we are. First lets get past our great basketball tradition and remember......THIS IS ABOUT MONEY which equals FOOTBALL and TV CONTRACTS!!! Forget basketball, Forget adding teams and Forget the Big East. The Big 12 is dead. The teams being suggested are "mid major" teams that hold no water in the BCS. TCU, BYU (they want to be independent), Boise State (love em but flavor of the month), and Houston. We may as well join the Mountain West. Come on people, get real. The Big East is only a basketball conference and is pieced together in every other sport. The only two viable choices are the Big 10 and PAC 12. And what are we doing to get in. Are we going to believe the other presidents that "We're sticking together." BS. I heard this last summer. I have no faith in Beebe. I know we were one of the original Conference memebers but it's time to move on. We've all made fun of people holding on to the past. It's time we let go and keep up with the times.

jgkojak 6 years, 10 months ago

Tip time concern is about recruiting - its 10 in Philly when the young Morris twins might or might now see KU because we're on so late playing UCLA.

If there are going to be 4 16 team mega-conferences, obviously we fit in there somewhere.

And really, in football 16 team conferences = playing that pod system and then one championship game -

so if we got in a situation where the Pac-16 East was KU KSU --> not sure they get the invite OU OSU Colorado Utah Arizona Arizona St

Well-- there's enough good B12/B8 history in that bunch to make me happy.

Benjamin Piehler 6 years, 10 months ago

Is there some state legislature keeping KU and KSU in the same conference? I'm not sure anything is happening to the B12, but I'd hate to get left behind on the account of Kstate.

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