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Big 12 Conference

Tuesday, August 16, 2011


Translation: A&M will still bolt


Reader poll

Do you think Texas A&M should remain a part of the Big 12 conference?

  • Yes. 48% 832 votes
  • No. 51% 897 votes

1729 total votes.

Two days ago, the easy answer to the question, “Will Texas A&M leave the Big 12 for the SEC,” was “Definitely.”

But now? Don’t be fooled. That’s still the answer. It’s just a matter of how and when.

A&M’s board of regents met Monday to discuss conference realignment, and, when the doors to the meeting room flew open, we learned very few details and heard only ambiguous answers from A&M president R. Bowen Loftin.

To me, there were a couple of telling responses in the president’s address.

Loftin cautioned that, either way, this would be a long, drawn-out process and asked for patience from the Aggie nation. Translation: We’re working our butts off to make this happen so bear with us.

Loftin said that, if A&M were to leave, they would love to continue to play Texas in football on an annual basis. Translation: We’re gone, but we’d like you to know we still care.

And, finally, in the event that the Aggies are no longer in the Big 12, Loftin said the conference would have no problem finding a suitable replacement. Translation: Better get started.

Loftin’s postgame speech was a masterful job of a man saying so much while saying nothing at all. It’s clear where the Aggies stand, and it has been from the minute news of their courtship with the SEC surfaced. Whether it’s one man driving the ship, such as Texas governor and A&M graduate Rick Perry, or an entire department, all that matters is that enough Aggies are ready to uproot.

But that’s only half of the equation. And, for folks around here, it’s the unimportant half. The question now shifts to what will become of the Big 12? Curiously, Loftin addressed that, too, though I hesitate to waste more space on those thoughts. The abridged version? “We’re also very concerned about the members of the Big 12. We don’t want the Big 12 to go away. We have no intention of doing anything that might precipitate that.”

Thanks. Good night. And good luck.

What’s missing in all of this is a dose of reality. If the Aggies want to leave, no one’s stopping them. Not the Longhorns, not the Texas Legislature, which actually postponed a meeting set for today because it deemed the threat to be over, and not the Big 12.

That’s reality. And now it’s time for everyone to move on. Insider reports from Texas indicate that the Aggies will announce their departure in the next 20 days. So let ’em.

While they’re doing that, the Big 12 can and will begin preparations for its next move, one that should include throwing everything at Notre Dame and adjusting accordingly from there.

A&M believes it’s the one making the bold move right now, but how will the Aggies feel if they see Notre Dame’s golden domes in their rearview mirror?

Talk about a power play.


Benjamin Piehler 2 years, 8 months ago

Is there some state legislature keeping KU and KSU in the same conference? I'm not sure anything is happening to the B12, but I'd hate to get left behind on the account of Kstate.


jgkojak 2 years, 8 months ago

Tip time concern is about recruiting - its 10 in Philly when the young Morris twins might or might now see KU because we're on so late playing UCLA.

If there are going to be 4 16 team mega-conferences, obviously we fit in there somewhere.

And really, in football 16 team conferences = playing that pod system and then one championship game -

so if we got in a situation where the Pac-16 East was KU KSU --> not sure they get the invite OU OSU Colorado Utah Arizona Arizona St

Well-- there's enough good B12/B8 history in that bunch to make me happy.


Kyle Sybesma 2 years, 8 months ago

I can't beleive how blind we are. First lets get past our great basketball tradition and remember......THIS IS ABOUT MONEY which equals FOOTBALL and TV CONTRACTS!!! Forget basketball, Forget adding teams and Forget the Big East. The Big 12 is dead. The teams being suggested are "mid major" teams that hold no water in the BCS. TCU, BYU (they want to be independent), Boise State (love em but flavor of the month), and Houston. We may as well join the Mountain West. Come on people, get real. The Big East is only a basketball conference and is pieced together in every other sport. The only two viable choices are the Big 10 and PAC 12. And what are we doing to get in. Are we going to believe the other presidents that "We're sticking together." BS. I heard this last summer. I have no faith in Beebe. I know we were one of the original Conference memebers but it's time to move on. We've all made fun of people holding on to the past. It's time we let go and keep up with the times.


BPSkelly 2 years, 8 months ago

Regardless of what shakes down from here on out, the ONLY way I see the Big 12 getting a stable footing is adding more teams.

Im still convinced not be aggressive on this front is Beebe's and the powers that be biggest crime.

If people, teams, schools want to go elsewhere, so be it. But dont sit there waiting for more teams to get picked off or leave. For the life of me I cant understand that. I just cant.

It's obvious to all at this point that going the way of the "Super-Mega-Hyper-Conference" is the direction this is all heading. So instead of getting picked apart like carcass on the road... GO GET SOME SCHOOLS.

I think the Notre Dame idea is total pie in the sky pipe dream. But there is literally NO downside to pursuing them. None. They've rebuffed all comers, and will do the same again. There's no shame in being turned down at the dance by the prettiest girl. And you may even get her.

To be honest, after that, I dont much care who we get. I agree that the other teams being bantied about (BYU, Air Force, TCU) have logical appeal here. Id think all 3 would be interested, but if im correct TCU is set to go to the Big East.

At this point though, I see no upside to simply getting to 12 though. I think we need to stake out 16. I dont even see the sense of that personally. But unless we wanna end up in the Big East, Pac-16 or wherever we end up these guys need to think long term.

Getting big enough to avoid being a "target" would help that.


Randy Bombardier 2 years, 8 months ago

Related to that, now the Big East Commissioner wants to meet with Big12 and ACC? I think they see the handwriting on the wall. I say be careful here. We are the lead dog for the last mega-conference. We have no reason to meet with them. This is survival of the fittest. Thanks, Darwin, you moron.


texashawk10 2 years, 8 months ago

Here's a hypothetical for all of you people complaining KU having late start times if they ever end up in the PAC 12, would be PAC 16 if they expand again. For this hypothetical let's say that OU is lead in this and takes OSU, KU and KSU with them to the PAC 16. You can substitute Missouri or Texas Tech for KState because it makes little difference in this analogy.

Now you might asking yourself how scheduling for a 16 team football conference would work. Well good news, the WAC had 16 football teams for a few years in the mid to late 90's (1996-1999). The way their schedule worked was that they had 4 pods of 4 teams. Pod 1 was Hawaii, SDSU, SJSU, and Fresno St., Pod 2 was UNLV, Air Force, CSU, and Wyoming, Pod 3 was BYU, Utah, New Mexico, and UTEP, and Pod 4 was TCU, SMU, Tulsa, and Rice. Pods 1 and 4 were always in opposite divisions and Pods 2 and 3 were paired with 1 and 4 and would rotate every two years. Applying this setup to a 16 team PAC conference would probably have the pods set up like this:

Pod 1: Washington, Washington St., Oregon, Oregon St. Pod 2: Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA Pod 3: Arizona, Arizona St., Colorado, Utah Pod 4: Kansas, Kansas St., Oklahoma, Oklahoma St.

This means that for football, KU would play at most 2 games in the Pacific time zone and there's no guarantee that either would be a night game so I fail to see why scheduling for football would be a big concern. As for basketball, KU would likely play 6 or 7 games at most in the Pacific time zone (not counting conference tournament games) and only the weekday games would be guaranteed to be 9 pm tips in the Central time zone so KU would likely play less than 5 out of 31 regular season games with a 9 pm tip so again, not a big issue if you have to stay up a little later than normal less than 10 times during the course of the year for KU football/basketball games. I don't see that as a huge sacrifice to be made and if this is the biggest holdup in thinking the Big East is a better fit than the PAC 12, you really need to get a better argument than having to stay up late a few times a year.


Randy Bombardier 2 years, 8 months ago

ESPN wants four mega-conferences. That is the vision, they have openly said so, of course as a prediction, not as a goal. The reason for that is they want to create a de facto national championship through such a structure. Apparently, some conferences believe this and they are taking action. So, who are those conferences?

Big 10 Pac12 SEC and who? Big East? ACC? Mountain West?

The obvious answer is that we pretty much have to go that way or the Big East will. Who is it going to be, the Big East or the Big12.


mikehawk 2 years, 8 months ago

We could only hope for Notre Dame. It won't happen. I still think A&M is on ego crack with their feelings all hurt. Not only leaving Texas for the SEC soothes their egos, I think the bonus is they believe the Big 12 with fold without them, further repairing their bruised self-image which sees only a Longhorn every time they look in the mirror at themselves. Hopefully, the Big 12 (or is it the Big One) is going on full recruitment mode right now because with or without A&M we have room to expand. The best defense is a good offense, both on the field and off. Everyone keeps talking about Texas, but a guy down here in Oklahoma named David Boren at OU needs to be put on point on this deal as he is one serious dude when it comes to being persuasive and powerful. It time (past time) to bring in the big guns.


KGphoto 2 years, 8 months ago

Wake me when it's over and we are the last team selected into The Big 16. Which will still be called the Big 10.

I'll tell you all about my nightmare that involved years of meaningless argument and guessing.

Tait, I know you can't come right out and say it here, because the topic is gonna fill up a whooooooooooole lotta deadlines, but you know this conference is done. You would have to be an idiot or a child not to see the writing on the wall.


jgkojak 2 years, 8 months ago

Best Case (by far): The Big 12 stays together in some fashion, even without MU.

Worst Case: Kansas ends up in an expanded Big East (12 teams in football, two 10-team divisions in basketball). In that scenerio - most of our Big East (West Division) opponents are not too bad from a travel standpoint (Marquette, DePaul, Notre Dame, Memphis, Louisville, Cinci, etc). Likewise, the basketball competition keeps us as a top tier basketball school and will not detract from our recruiting base or from kids wanting to play for us. I hate the Big East, but it won't kill our basketball. (Sorry, KSU, say hello to the Mountain West).

Be Careful What You Wish For: Pac-12. You do NOT want to have most of your road games aired at Midnight on the east coast. It will kill our east-coast recruiting. And except for Colorado, travel distances are a nightmare.


mustlehustle 2 years, 8 months ago

All interesting takes on the possible candidates....TCU does play basketball...and as far as Kansas current Football Program, or lack thereof, unfortunately the Big 10 and SEC and PAC 12 view the Jayhawks in similar fashion as your take on Memphis, Houston and Air Force. Kansas brings to the table an elite basketball program,much like Memphis or Houston, even Notre Dame had a respectable basketball season last year.

However, this issue and criteria is football. Kansas finished last in the conference last year, and pre-season polls have them dominating that position again this season. They bring no geographical recruiting advantage or television markets that any of these conferences need or desire. Again, with the current state of football affairs at Kansas, with no discernable change in the forseeable future, they're better served cheering loudly for UT and OU, and enjoy the television revenues and bowl money percentages, the Jayhawks enjoy from the continued heavy lifting of these two schools.

Remember boys and girls...."It's better to dance with the devil you know....than the devil you don't."


Steve Gantz 2 years, 8 months ago

I see one team that I'd like to see in the B12 (other than enticing someone from a major conference), and that's BYU. The others? Here's my take: Air Force- A mid major in basketball, barely relevant in football Houston-Have had some runs but it's a commuter school, not what the conference needs. TCU- Do they play basketball there? Tulane- Minor league Memphis- May have a little stronger case than others, but it's still a commuter/not in the nations' eye type of school. ND- Barack Obama has a better chance of winning the conservative vote in November than for this happening. If A&M goes to the SEC, we ought to try to go with them, although, football, ouch!


Randy Bombardier 2 years, 8 months ago

And if you think Jerry Jones is just sitting on the sidelines in regard to his Alma Mater you are simply naive. The above cowpie by Muscle is not accurate at all. Arkansas was in a position of being left out in the cold. Had absolutely nothing to do with rivalries. This is going to work, folks. I see great things in store for a newly ambitious conference. It is about time.


jgkojak 2 years, 8 months ago

And no way the B10 supports Notre Dame to have its indy TV contracts -

the Big 12 will.

The Big East is not good enough football competition. If they want to return to greatness in football, its going to run through a conference.

That should be the Big 12.

BYU + Notre Dame + Air Force = 3 schools with national audiences.


Phoggin_Loud 2 years, 8 months ago

Regarding Notre Dame, I do think their fans are too arrogant to want a Conference. However...

At some point, as 16-team Conferences appear, ND will have NO ONE to schedule. All it would take is for a few AD's to refuse to schedule "Independents". This is not so far-fetched when they are forced to play 15 other conference teams. AD"s will continue to "build-in" wins in the non-con as often as possible especially as the size, and competitiveness, of the Conferences grow.

Wake up, ND. The era of Independence is coming to an end.


mustlehustle 2 years, 8 months ago

Here's a brief snapshot historically of the rivalry between Texas and Arkansas. You'd have to recall the big rivalry at the time in the Big 8 Conference was Oklahoma and Nebraska....the big rivalry in the Southwest Conference was the Longhorns and the Razorbacks, This game even had a name "The Southwest Classic"

The SWC had a rule that forbid any referee that lived in the State of Arkansas from working a game involving the University of Arkansas. Understandable, except there was no rule forbidding a ref calling a game involving his alma mater.

As a result, Arkansas played every conference game against a team from Texas with refs from Texas, often with refs that graduated from the school Arkansas was playing against. In football, Arkansas had a winning record against every school but UT and in basketball Arkeansas absolutely dominated. UT hadn't emerged yet as a legitimate basketball school.

There are the Razorback faithful that contend they suffered numerous "questionable" calls that cost them big games, the most notorious of which was the one that nullified a TD against UT in 69. Its possible there's a bushel of sour grapes in their contention as the Longhorns went on to an 11-0 season and defeated Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl to win their "second" National Championship. Kansas fans may recall a similar feat accomplished by their basketball squad a couple of years ago, and in 88' and I believe in 52'.

The Razorbacks will insist it should have been them playing for the national championship that year, and also handed a similar fate in 1978.

The Razorback faithfull will also contend The old SWC schools other than Arkansas are among the most notorious NCAA violators. SMU, Tamu, Houston, and Texas Tech took turns being convicted of the 'most infractions ever.' Texas and Baylor were also no strangers to the NCAA infractions committee. Some SEC schools (Bama) are also known for cheating but none compare to what was going on in Texas at the time.

You see, Razorback fans, though getting long in the tooth from the years of carrying this hatred around, have as much disdain for Texas Tech and Baylor as they do UT. When the Big 12 was formed, the politics played on the floor of the State Capital in Austin, is still talked about. Nobody wanted either school, but Tech being a State school and Ann Richards a Baylor grad, made sure both were included moving forward.

Until a few generations of Razorback fans, go to that big hog trough in the sky, there will be an uprising in the State of Arkansas at the mere discussion of any association with the Big 12. As it will inevitably be with TAMU's eventual fate, the Razorbacks are more content being in the bottom tier of the SEC standings, then any association with the Big 12.


Sam Constance 2 years, 8 months ago

The Big 12 is not in trouble. I think most of the power brokers in the conference, if given a choice, would prefer to have A&M remain rather than leave, but in the long run, this will not harm the conference.

Well, unless A&M leaving convinces other schools that they need to channel their inner insecurity, which is always a possibility when it comes to things like sports and school pride, where emotions can run high.


jgkojak 2 years, 8 months ago

Good argument on Kentucky - they're not coming, but a feeler should be sent.

Also Arkansas... we also have to remember they are a natural rival for MU - which gives MU one more reason to stick around and one less to think SEC.

And its true - you want to play in a BCS game in this lifetime? A #15 ranked Arkansas team could get there in a down year for the B12 (see Texas' season) - either OK and TX are down and you play one game for the whole enchilada. There are a lot more obstacles in the SEC.

Arkansas has gotta at least blink.

And Ark. + BYU is a mighty attractive 12 team conference.

Ark + BYU + Air Force + TCU/Houston/Memphis is a hell of attractive 16 team conference.


Randy Bombardier 2 years, 8 months ago

The strategy to expand the conference needs to target the big boys as a matter of course. Some of you think we should be "realistic" and neglect the Arkansas's and the Notre Dames of the college football world. That would be foolish. The lack of a conference championship game could be exactly what would interest Arkansas or ND. Arkansas has yet to win a conference in two decades in the SEC. Realizing that they could immediately compete not only for the Conference title but also a shot at the NC game is huge, folks. That is huge. It is what every fan wants. You talk about being realists. Look at Arkansas and be a realist. Will they ever win a NC in the SEC? A realist would say, Never, Ever. Is that acceptable for Arkansas fans? Is it acceptable to you? The answer is obvious. I am sorry but I have to say to some of you what you have said to anyone who dares to think differently, but you are a moron if you don't see this. You are an absolute idiot if you don't think Arkansas fans and Alum get this.

Therefore, since everyone in Arkansas gets it, we should too. We need to make that case and the same to Kentucky (Wonderful basketball addition, don't you think? Talk about a new rivalry.) if, if we have already made the pitch to ND without the prospect of a Conference title game and they decline.

In summary, first pitch to ND, second Arkansas and Kentucky (goal being 11 members, a little margin in case MU still has a wandering eye.) Then, if along the way there seems to be support amongst the new schools for a Conference Championship game, we go for 12 and look at BYU, Air Force, and others.

If we have no success with either ND or Arkansas it would be wise to then try to get back up to 12. My opinion. I do not think we should overlook Colorado State. Their rate of growth should be considered.


justinryman 2 years, 8 months ago

"Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream until your dreams come true Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream until your dream comes through Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream On Dream On"



Hammertoe 2 years, 8 months ago

Any conference with Football Power's Texas and Oklahoma has a strong foundation to succeed. IF A and M leaves (which they will regret in a few years), why not make a move to get ND. Sounds crazy but what do we have to lose. If not ND, BYU. The best situation for KU, KSU and MU is to keep the Big 12 intact. Traveling 2 time zones to the west for the PAC 10 makes no sense. Think of the travel problems for all the other teams (volleyball, baseball, etc) University Presidents have a bigger scope of problems than just what it best for the basketball team....


Sparko 2 years, 8 months ago

Look, no major conference wants A&M. This conference was a face-saver. But that whole 1.2B TV contract is the elephant in courthouse. They screwed this up. Badly. If they leave, it will be in several years.


mustlehustle 2 years, 8 months ago

Kansas fans...with the vision of your chancellor and the following "search committee members" she appointed, here is who your frustration and letters, radio station calls, should be directed at...this "brain-trust" for the continued mediocrity and poor choices in hiring.

 Ray Evans Jr. manager, Pegasus Capital Management.

— Kenneth L. Audus, dean of the KU School of Pharmacy and professor of pharmaceutical chemistry — Ritch Price, head baseball coach at KU — Linda Ellis Sims, account executive with ExxonMobil Corp. — Debbie Van Saun, associate athletics director/senior women’s administrator — Thomas Ward, president and CEO of Russell Stover Candies in Kansas City, Mo.

If you want to have a firm understanding of why the Kansas football program continues to languish in mediocrity, you don't have to look much further than this list of people that hired the latest round of "seat fillers."

You don't have any football people making decisions on who to interview, much less who to hire. (yes I realize ray evans junior was on KU's football team, largely due to the All American efforts of his father)

Their "comfort" level and apparent expertise was to limit their search to the "Missouri Valley Conference." That would be a great idea if this was 1970. However, in the changing climate of football and realignment, network dollars and reduction in alumni contributions, All these folks managed to do was set the Kansas football program back even farther, in arguably the most critical time in college football history. .

All this "esteemed" cast managed to do is pick the lowest hanging fruit possible to fill the vacancies. By all accounts they simply didn't grasp the entire landscape of college football, much less understand how critical of selections were needed to control the fate of Kansas University Football. .

Instead of going out and hiring people with reputations at bigger universities than Kansas, hiring from staffs of Athletic Directors and successful football programs, the apparent consensus is lets take our second choice from Illinois State and lets give this head coach from the University of Bufflalo a "chance."

Its more than coincidence that Kansas found themselves back in the same place this past week, "hoping" they could be a packaged deal with some of the other schools being courted. It also found them on several pre-season polls ranked to finish "10th" in the Big 12 (again) Only with 10 teams, it will be a more brutal schedule this season, because Kansas has to play every team in the Conference. The bigger question, is how much longer will Bill Self endure the uncertainty and calamity.

Until Kansas fans and alumni demand better representation for a search committee, from its athletic department, from its State government and University, they should cheer loudly for whatever decisions OU and UT make, as ultimately, it will be in their best interest as well.


jgkojak 2 years, 8 months ago

Yes, BYU is a no-brainer, and really, is an even trade for A&M.

I still argue that Air Force could possibly make more sense from a B12 branding standpoint -

Which B12 school or the Air Force has the most alumni?

The Air Force.

The armed services network = another major city, plus B12 fans in Colorado.

Also, when all is said and done, the Big East will likely add Army and Navy (after they're poached for members when this all goes down).


rob4lb 2 years, 8 months ago

If the Aggies go, the Big 12 needs to add teams. It won't Arkansas or Notre Dame. One criteria to look at is average home attendance. Here is last year's attendance for some of the more popular expansion candidates: Cincinnati 35.0K BYU 61.3K TCU 42.6K AFA 40.0K Houston 31.7K L'ville 50.6K

BYU is a no brainer. It would be tied with MU for 4th in the Big 12 last year behind UT, A&M and OU. Baylor had the lowest attendance in the Big 12 last year at 40.0K (KU was next to last at 44.8K-though was at 50.5K in 2009).

I was surprised by Louisville. They have a 56,000 seat stadium making it bigger than KU, KS, IS, Bay. They may be a viable second candidate.


Andy Tweedy 2 years, 8 months ago

Last year, there was some talk of an alliance between the Big XII and the Pac-10. Obviously, that didn't happen. But why not some sort of an alliance between the Big XII and maybe the ACC. Two seperate conferences that have non-conference agreements in place and share some form of TV deal. Just an idea, maybe it wouldn't work. Either way, why in the world would BYU want to join the Big XII. CU didn't like being the last outpost, why would BYU. And Air Force? Why not invite Navy and Army while we're at it, nobody watches their games either! I agree that no big time school is going to leave another BCS conference for the Big XII, so we're back to TCU. I still say hitch our wagons to MU and OU and get the heck out while the getting is good. Maybe try to sell the SEC on a 3-team parlay and sink A&M in the process.


Hank Cross 2 years, 8 months ago

The idea that ND would come to the B12 is flat-out absurd. It blew off the B10 last year; a conference with better academics than the B12, more ties to ND and more people in geographic footprint than the B12. This year ND plays teams from the B10, ACC, P12, and the service academies. And they're going to give up that nation-wide presence to play in Ames and Lubbock? Doesn't even come close to making sense.

OTOH, BYU might not be so far-fetched. Here's a BYU blog that puts some fairly convincing arguments together.

If the league is to stick together, I'd like to see the other teams grow a spine and tell UT that if it wants to add Houston, BYU and AFA must be added to the North.


Ozarkace68 2 years, 8 months ago

The Aggies are in the process of becoming their own biggest joke. They may be moving from a conference where they may have a fighting chance to be an upper division football finisher to a conference where they will be scratching to make the Music City Bowl, as someone said. As far as basketball is concerned, their chances there went east with Mark. Then again it could take a while for the SEC to find a team to fill the balance on the east side. There is much room to be snide about balancing out with the Aggie nation but it may not be that easy. In the meantime we should give the Aggies the send off they deserve and ignore them when they come to visit. I believe stealing TCU would still be a good move. There is a basketball venue they could borrow until they can find a suitable home in Ft. Worth. They have no business in the Big East and neither do we. The Aggies are now the red headed step children of the Big XII and have to leave or face humiliation at every road game. Their selfishness and envy have soiled the brand. They have done one favor they have provided the Big XII with a unity of purpose going forward and we can thank them for that. The old hang together or we shall hang separately applies.


jgkojak 2 years, 8 months ago

1) Good riddance.

2) A pitch must be made to Notre Dame, one they can't turn down. TX and OK would support whatever is necessary to bring them in, because they understand the incredible exposure they would bring this conference. Now... that said, ND will turn down a pitch, but the rest of the college world needs to see the B12 making serious noise about expansion. Also, no way Mizzou even dreams of leaving with ND (serious Catholic population in St Louis) on board.

3) That said, we need to go after Arkansas. Again, they'll say no. But put a little sweat on the brow of the SEC.

4) And then we come to BYU and Air Force. I am almost thinking that Air Force is the better choice for a 10 team Big 12, and BYU could come in if we expand.

Why Air Force? 1) Geographic proximity - no further, really, than Texas Tech. 2) Colorado is already familiar with the B12, and KU fans in CO/Denver area could just as easily make the trip down I-25 (you can see the stadium from the interstate) to catch a KU-Air Force basketball or football game. 3) Air Force games are broadcast WORLDWIDE to bases. Even though Texas vs Air Force would likely be a blowout- it would generate a LOT of interest. Think about KU being seen 2x a year in basketball and once a year in football on our bases - how's that for brand recognition of both the Jayhawk and the B12? 4) Air Force will, without hesitation, join the B12, and would, like Baylor or K-State, have no choice but to be a loyal stalwart. We need another member like that. 5) Academics. Though not a major research institution, brings a VERY high standard, and is one team that certainly would raise the bar on behavior of student athletes. A plus all the way around.

Air Force Sagarin ratings: Basketball #126 Football #40 -- better than KU


justinryman 2 years, 8 months ago

At this point the SEC is saying to A&M, "You need to break up with your current girlfriend before you crawl into our bed."

Once that is done, then they will be fast tract into the SEC schedule next year.


gchawk 2 years, 8 months ago

Good article, Matt. I was thinking the same thing about A & M. Their decision to leave was basically a foregone conclusion when they announced that their meeting was moved up to Monday, the only problem was that the SEC didn't care to dance with them at this time. My feelings about A&M is: "Once the milk is sour, there's no reason the put it back in the refrigerator". From now until they leave they will always be the disenchanted stepchild.


ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 8 months ago


Mizzou's president graduated from tenn and worked for kentucky and the sec commissioner has ties to Mizzou.

Anyone that suggest ND to the big12 will get automatically deleted from the message boards. No way would they come to a league where there worst games are against ku, KSU, and ISU. When in the big10 their worst games would be in state rivals iu, pu (hahaha) and northwestern. Remember even if you have a network or tv deal, people still have to watch.

Oh, and, If you think UT has a big ego, ever met a ND fan? They haven't been relevant since that old guy that with a droopy face that slurs and slobbers all over himself on espns college game day was younger. Should tell you something.


Clarence Haynes 2 years, 8 months ago

I spoke with a Notre Dame Alum about this and his response was "not in our lifetime"! Beebe might give Notre Dame a call, but will they answer?


rob4lb 2 years, 8 months ago

A bold move would stop the bleeding. Given that the Big 10 and Big East have tried for years to pressure ND to become a football member, it is hard to imagine they would be convince to join an unstable Big 12.

I think, in order to be viable, the conference needs to get to 12 members and have a championship game. The perception of the conference now is that it is set up so that UT or OU can more easily get into the BCS championship. Essentially, these schools will play a weaker schedule in a weaker conference. You don't think the school will penalized in the polls for not playing a conference championship game when 4 of the 6 conferences now have championship game.

Right now the conference has no vision. It was, everyone play everyone. Then, it's we can survive with 9 teams, but we could get to 12 if we wanted to. Despite all of that, the best option for KU is to work toward to stable Big 12.


Krohnutz 2 years, 8 months ago

Folks, Notre Dame's TV contract with NBC is only just over 9 million dollars a year. And it is in place through at least 2015. Even with the basketball money from the Big East, a new Big 12 contract in addition to their own "self" network potential would mean Notre Dame should be able to maximize it's money by joining the Big 12.

Furthermore, the ratings have dropped significantly over the last half decade (which is what happens when you don't play games people care about). They bottomed out at a 1.9 share in 2008 and I doubt they have come back up. They are on the slide, it is a pain in the ass for them to schedule teams, they need a conference, they are not making any more money right now then what the Big 12, Big 10, and SEC will be making.

In short, Notre Dame needs the Big 12, the problem is they might be too stupid and stubborn to realize it.

Actually, for NBC to still pay them big bucks must mean a bishop has dirty pictures of some NBC executives. Something involving farm animals or something...


Tony Bandle 2 years, 8 months ago

1] Notre Dame will convert to Judaism before joining the Not So Big 12.

2] Matt, totally agree...Texas A&M has not only burned down all the bridges but has also blown up the dam to make the way back over the river impassable.

3] Simplest resolution..don't panic, get BYU in A&M's place. The Cougars bring BOTH basketball as well as football credibilty to the league and they get a share of the sweetheart FOX deal. {and it's not that much farther away than Boulder]

4] Once you have re-established some stability, then look to expand.

Of course all of this great advice will be ignored by the clowns running the Big Top 12 circus!!!

Maybe we REALLY think out of the box and go with an independent class of Kansas, BYU, Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Oklahoma State and who ever else is marketable but wants a better deal!!??


jhox 2 years, 8 months ago

If you somehow could get Notre Dame, then Arkansas would be more likely to have an interest. Notre Dame would signify an end to the bleeding, and make the Big 12 viable again. If that were to happen, one would think Arkansas would love the opportunity to play OU, Texas, Missouri, Oklahoma State, and ND regularly. To round it out, and make it a 12 team lead again, go after BYU or Houston. Houston is a sleeping giant. Put them in the Big 12, let them play in Reliant Stadium, with the recruiting base in that city, and you've got a top 20 program in no time, and you end the perception of them being a commuter school. A&M would be green with envy, and wondering what on Earth they were thinking.


Robert Brock 2 years, 8 months ago

No big-time school is going to be interested in joining the Big XII anytime soon. The conference looks like toast.


manginorh00lz 2 years, 8 months ago

The more I think about it, Tulane is the best answer.


mustlehustle 2 years, 8 months ago

The notion of Notre Dame joining the Big 12 is far-fetched, but more to the point, why would all of the Big 12 schools crying "foul" with the Longhorns exclusive deal with ESPN, not find similiar problems with Notre Dame and their exclusivity with NBC?

Yes, I realize the ESPN deal has far more creativity and long-range thought, than simply a tradional/exlcusive contract with Notre Dame. However, for those of you that think Notre Dame is the elixir to make all things right in the world, Notre Dame has been an "independent school" and all that implies for a very long time.

If you feel like the whipping post for UT and OU, and cry foul at their "independent" nature at times, it makes no sense to your argument, to invite to your Conference someone who portrays "more" independence.


tis4tim 2 years, 8 months ago

How I miss the days when college athletics was about athletics.


Keith Hummel 2 years, 8 months ago

I agree the Big-12 should make a major pitch to Notre Dame. Logically, I think the Big-12 is the perfect place for ND to land. Unfortunately, the Big-12 has a PR problem because they've allowed themselves to be cast as a sinking ship with a bumbling captain. The only way to reverse that trend is to make bold moves. Going after ND is a bold move.

I think BYU is a good option as well, but lets not leave out the idea of raiding another conference. If that's the way this game is going to be played then all bets are off. Lets start thinking outside the box. For example, I saw someone yesterday float the idea of merging 8 teams from the Big-12 with 8 teams from the ACC to form a super conference. Don't know how feasible that is, but lets spitball the idea with the ACC and see if it has any wings. And is it really out of the question that we can't lure someone from the Big-10 or SEC? I keep hearing this is all about money, so lets dangle the possibility of a sweetheart TV deal and and see who bites.

I don't know what the solution is, but if we are going to implode as a conference I hope we at least go down fighting.


texashawk10 2 years, 8 months ago

Having said what I have about Notre Dame, Dan Beebe would an absolute moron to not give Notre Dame a call and beg them to join the Big 12. I would even be okay with Beebe offering Notre Dame a similar deal to what Texas has now with the ability to start and operate their own network independent of the Big 12's TV deal. Considering that the SEC is likely to expand to 14 or 16 if they do expand, there is the possibility of also losing Missouri at which point the Big 12 have to look at teams to add to put themselves in a less vulnerable position.

Since I don't believe Notre Dame will end up joining the Big 12, the next phone call should be to BYU. BYU doesn't have the national following that Notre Dame, but they do give the Big 12 much more visibility west of the Rockies since that is where the majority of Mormons in the country live. I do think BYU is a school that would join the Big 12 because the value of the Big 12 TV contracts would more than double what BYU is making right now with their ESPN contract if they joined the Big 12. I also don't believe BYU has a clause with the BCS so they would be going from a non-AQ situation to an BCS conference so I would believe that BYU would accept an invitation to the Big 12 should one be offered.

The third call is the courtesy call to Arkansas to appease Jerry Jones and after Arkansas says thanks for calling, but we're staying in the SEC, Beebe should move onto Air Force. Air Force is the second school that would more than likely accept a bid to the Big 12 as it would be move from a non-AQ conference to a BCS conference. Air Force, like Notre Dame and BYU, doesn't deliver a single TV, but rather would bring in a national audience since there are Air Force bases all across the country.

If the Big 12 does indeed lose Missouri as well and the Big 12 is only seeking to get back to 10 teams, this would be mission accomplished, but I believe if the Big 12 drops to 8 schools the Big 12 would look to add 4 schools to get up to 12 schools to try and get to less vulnerable position.

The fifth call would be to try and convince Texas and Oklahoma to approve TCU for admission to the Big 12, but this is something I just don't see happening and unless the Big 12 has the same approval process as the SEC, TCU will never get unanimous approval to join the Big 12.

After this is when the Big 12 has to look outside their traditional regions at other BCS schools such as Louisville and Cincinnati and at non-AQ schools such Mountain West and C-USA schools to fill in the 11th and 12th spots in the conference. This is the point where schools like Boise St., Houston, SMU, UTEP, Memphis, New Mexico, Colorado St, and Wyoming come into the picture for consideration for admission to the Big 12.


stravinsky 2 years, 8 months ago

No way in hell Notre Dame decides to join the Big 12. Not now, not ever.


texashawk10 2 years, 8 months ago

While I don't think Notre Dame will ever end up being a member of the Big 12, I do think there is a more realistic chance of Notre Dame ending up in the Big 12 than the Big 10 because of the potential of Notre Dame keeping their NBC deal and profiting from that while a member of the Big 12. I think ultimately that Notre Dame football will end up in the Big East like the rest of their athletic programs. I think the way this will happen is that while conferences are expanding, the Big East will give Notre Dame an ultimatum to join in football or be kicked out of the Big East entirely. The Big East will be able to pull this off by either allowing Notre Dame to continue their relationship with NBC, or work out some kind of deal for NBC to broadcast Big East football games while giving Notre Dame priority for football broadcasts because Notre Dame would be the only school in the conference that has any kind of significant name recognition outside of the northeast.

Notre Dame would significantly increase the value of Big East football and would have more than enough clout to be able to negotiate an arrangement with the Big East similar to what Texas has right now in the Big 12. I would guess that Notre Dame by itself could add $20-25 million per year to the value of any TV contract in the conference it joins It is because of this value that Notre Dame is going to always be the first team mentioned in for addition to the Big 10, Big 12, and Big East when expansion talks take place. I do think that Notre Dame will have to join a conference if they ever want to try and regain their past glory because their schedule is too difficult on a yearly basis to ever reach the national title game right now and joining either the Big 12 or Big East would decrease the difficulty of the schedule and give Notre Dame a better chance to compete for national titles again.


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