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Thursday, April 28, 2011

KU basketball recruits slip in latest rankings

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Future Duke basketball player Austin Rivers, a 6-3, 175-pound combo guard from Winter Park (Fla.) High School, tops Rivals.com’s final individual rankings of the Recruiting Class of 2011.

As far as KU’s three signees ...

— Ben McLemore, a 6-5, 185-pound combo guard from Houston’s Christian Life Center, finished at No. 34, down 17 spots from his spring rating of 17.

— Naadir Tharpe, a 5-11, 170-pound point guard from Brewster Academy in Wolfeboro, N.H., dropped from No. 91 to 92.

— Braeden Anderson, a 6-8, 215-pound power forward from Wilbraham and Monson Academy in Massachusetts, remained unranked in the list of 150.

McLemore averaged 16.0 points and 7.0 rebounds in six games at Christian Life after leaving Oak Hill Academy in Mouth of Wilson, Va.

Tharpe averaged 14.5 points and 6.0 assists at Brewster. Anderson averaged 20.0 points and 11.0 rebounds a game at Wimbraham and Monson.

KU continues to pursue three players ranked in the top 150: No. 10 DeAndre Daniels, 6-8, 180, from IMG Academies in Bradenton, Fla.; No. 24 Trevor Lacey, 6-3, 190 from Butler High in Huntsville, Ala., and No. 141 Jamari Traylor, 6-7, 212, also from IMG Academies.

Lacey, who is considering KU, Kentucky and Alabama, told Rivals.com on Tuesday he will visit KU this weekend. He has already visited Alabama and plans on traveling to Kentucky before the May 18 conclusion of the spring signing period.

Traylor update: Traylor, who has visited Indiana, Oklahoma State and KU, may make a final visit to Texas Tech before choosing one of those four schools.

“They are all good schools and great programs. I’m not leaning to one school right now, but looking at them equally,” Traylor told Rivals.com on Wednesday.

Of last weekend’s trip to KU, Traylor said: “I think if I went there, I’d become a lot better. I was able to sit down with coach (Danny) Manning and talk to him during dinner. When I go somewhere, it will be important for me to have a good relationship with the head coach and the rest of the staff. I have a good relationship with coach Self.”

Murray to visit West Virginia: Aaric Murray, a 6-10, 245-pound sophomore at La Salle University, will visit West Virginia this weekend, the Philadelphia Daily News reported Tuesday. Murray, who has announced plans to leave La Salle, did not visit KU last weekend as originally planned. It’s believed that visit will not be rescheduled. He has made a visit to Oklahoma State.

Comments

Chris Shaw 3 years, 7 months ago

I'm going off topic here since we discussed most of these rankings yesterday when they came out.

1) How about the elephantiasis of Gregg Popovich's balls calling Gary Neal's number for the last second game tying 3 pointer against the Grizzlies? Holy Cow! Not bad for a 26 year old rookie out of Towson hitting the biggest shot of his basketball career. I guess that's what you do when you have already won 4 NBA Championships like Big Papa has. I love the fact that the Spurs have so many Jayhawk ties.

2) How about Mario Freakin Chalmers? 20 points in 31 minutes and 6-12 from downtown! Bibby started and played a total of 4 minutes. Not sure who I root for between Chalmers and Pierce, but I have to go with the Celtics and Pierce because I simply hate Lebron James.

3) D. Arthur is getting decent minutes for the Grizzlies, but I wish he was getting more. He wasn't as efficient as he was the previous game, but he still got 16 minutes. He's playing a nice role, but i would like to seem him get 20-25 minutes instead of his 15-17.

4) I love watching Collison play! He's the ultimate team player and does all the necessary little things to help out the Thunder. It's a shame that Aldrich isn't even on the thunder roster at the moment.

5) Let's hope Hinrich and the Hawks take out the Magic tonight.

Bryan Summers 3 years, 7 months ago

re: 4) Aldrich may not be on the roster but he has been in street clothes on the Thunder bench the last couple games.

Chris Shaw 3 years, 7 months ago

Exactly, hence not being on the playoff roster.

manunitedjayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Making about a million dollars while kicking it on the bench, not a bad deal. I mean he can't be that discouraged with BJ Mullens sitting next to him. Mullens was draftet higher than Cole was. Cole can't be to discouraged though, I mean who is Brooks going to play him over? Perkins, Collison, Ibaka, or Durant? Not likely, I think Cole will make an impact in the league sooner than later, he just has to wait his turn.

Chris Shaw 3 years, 7 months ago

How big a stud is Ibaka? 9 freakin blocks last night.

manunitedjayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

A athletic specimen, simple as that. He is a stud that is a good adjective to describe him. And the scary thing is he is only 20? I am not even sure if he started playing basketball till he was in high school. If I had to pick current/former NBA player for Jeff Withey to spend the whole summer with it would probably be Ibaka. My second choice would be Dikemebe Mutombo.

Ted Toulouse 3 years, 7 months ago

I saw Aldrich bear hug Durant at the end of the game last night so he still is around there. But I think OKC's style is a little too fast for Aldrich. He'd be more effective on a banging team like Boston because he doesn't run the floor nearly as well and even Sasha did.

Loved watching Arthur's highlights all over Sports Center the other night. He's still a beast and still has that feathery jumper.

Oh yeah, and Chalmers had 20 for the Heat last night.

It's great to see so many 'Hawks in the playoffs right now.

manunitedjayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

I agree. But when you say Arthur is "still a beast" and "still has a feathery jumper" what did you expect? He is in the NBA and the guy is what 23 years old? He is just going to become more of a beast and his jumper is going to get more pure. The NBA is the place for super athletes to continue to improve their games, just because Arthur is a pro does not mean he has hit his ceiling.

Ted Toulouse 3 years, 7 months ago

I saw Aldrich bear hug Durant at the end of the game last night so he still is around there. But I think OKC's style is a little too fast for Aldrich. He'd be more effective on a banging team like Boston because he doesn't run the floor nearly as well and even Sasha did.

Loved watching Arthur's highlights all over Sports Center the other night. He's still a beast and still has that feathery jumper.

Oh yeah, and Chalmers had 20 for the Heat last night.

It's great to see so many 'Hawks in the playoffs right now.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

re: 3 DA is a much improved player..he is turning into a star!

KEITHMILES05 3 years, 7 months ago

The reason BMac slid is because of his change of schools and perceived not being the best of behavior. He has ALOT of work to do to become a good player.

Woody Cragg 3 years, 7 months ago

Irish Momma, go back to your own site & profession... Rudy's jocker. Do the laundry, make the beds, clean the toilets, but by all means please inhale and enjoy the view from below the rim. After all, you deserve it. Have a wonderful day!

Jayhawklegacy 3 years, 7 months ago

Not really anything new in this article. Not sure I care how much the rankings change at this point it really doesn't matter. I'm going to bring up Elijah Johnson on this post. He is one player that I thought just kept getting better through the season. He showed signs of greatness while also not showing up in stretches. I will have to say though I'm not sure the last time we had someone as athletic? Anyone want to take a stab? I'm talking about just pure athleticism, I will go with an old name, how about Lester Earl, remember him? He could really jump out the gym.

jhox 3 years, 7 months ago

Some of the more athletic guys that I remember at KU... - Tyke Peacock...maybe 6'0" tall guard. I think he only played one year at KU, but he was the number one rated high jumper in the country while at KU, yet he only worked at high jumping about 3 or 4 months out of the year. I think he was jumping 7'4" or 7'5" if I remember correctly. I remember seeing him mess around one day doing 360 dunks and his head would be rim level as he flushed them, and that was coming out of his spin, and not even at his highest point. I think any best leaper conversation would have to start and end with him. - Wilt was before my time, but he was Big 12 champion in the high jump, as well. He would have to be on any list of great KU athletes. -Darren Hancock..definitely a high riser. - Elijah would definitely be on the list. -Pierce was no slouch. -For a bigger guy, Calvin Thompson could really get off the floor.

I'm sure there are guys I'm forgetting.

Chris Shaw 3 years, 7 months ago

Pre-KU, let's not forget about Lester Earl.

Chris Shaw 3 years, 7 months ago

Sorry Legacy, didn't see your post above.

BCRavenJHawkfan 3 years, 7 months ago

Sorry I have to be a stickler for these things, but Wilt was way before the Big 12 was even thought of. I will give you credit for stating his winning the high jump in track and field. It was the then Big 8 conference and he actually did that in three straight years.

jhox 3 years, 7 months ago

True...Wilt didn't play in the Big 12. You must be one of those proof reader / editor types, like my wife. I wish I was better at that but I speed read...can't help myself.

I see someone below listed Kenny Gregory. That's one of the guys I was trying to think of, and couldn't come up with.

J.R. Giddens is another high riser (unfortunately, he couldn't jump over the Moon (Bar) or his time at KU would have been less brief. Of course, then we probably wouldn't have landed Brandon Rush, and we'd be sitting with one fewer championship.

gchawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Darren Hancock could really jump too, unfortunately he had directional problems, couldn't find his way to the classroom.

RockChalk26 3 years, 7 months ago

Solid EJ post. If he keeps improving as quick as he has, by his senior year he will be on the NBA radar.

EJ if you read this, work hard this off season. Like drgnslayr said, work on your skills to get to the rim. You are too quick not to have that skill in your back pocket.

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 7 months ago

14.7 huh?

Couldn't quite give him 15, but 14.5 wasn't good enough?

Still though, very realistic given his aggressive rebounding, and if Dennis Rodman had this guys body he'd have averaged 17 a game. Robinson can do it if he can stay out of foul trouble.

Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

Great EJ post ... I think he has a smooth jump shot, and if he feels he can play without looking over his shoulder too much, I think we'll get more drives to the hoop and creativity.

hammr25 3 years, 7 months ago

I'd rather go with Kenny Gregory than Lester Earl since both were guards. Unfortunately all Earl and Gregory had was athleticism.

Chris Shaw 3 years, 7 months ago

Both were guards? I think you may want to retract that statement.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Kenny Gregory is the right comparison.... However Elijah's already shown he is better than Gregory by a wide margin.

Lester was a power forward with no perimeter jump shot. If he were a guard with that jumper he wouldn't have made a high school team.

thaihawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Milt Newton, Kenny Gregory, Archie Marshall, and Darnell Valentine were pretty amazing jumpers/athletes.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

Don't leave out Richard Scott..one of my top 10 Jayhawks of all time. Mostly he was known for his hustle but could get above the rim in an instant. thaihawk already mentioned Kenny Gregory, his verticality was amazing. Is verticality even a word?

thaihawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Richard Scott was special around the rim -- and I think he was only about 6'7". Great body control. Darren Hancock was an amazing player that never really did a lot for us. Check out the dunk and the block here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQw9Oc...

addlime 3 years, 7 months ago

Dont' leave out Rex Walters. He had a ridiculous vertical leap!

Jayhawklegacy 3 years, 7 months ago

Rex Walters is my all time favorite jayhawk. But his vertical leap is not what he was known for. It was his 3 point shooting. I would say he was comparible to Tyrel Reed on athleticism but shooting was on another level in my opinion. Purest shooter in Jayhawk history.

doolindalton 3 years, 7 months ago

The rivals ratings are even less relevant to the actual personnel selection/recruiting process than Mel Kiper's Big Board is to the NFL draft today. It's all for entertainment purposes and not based upon much other than some guy's guesswork .

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

With respect doolindalton, I disagree completely. There are obviously exceptions as when a low rated player proves everyone wrong or when a 5 star fails completely, but if it wasn't relative, than why do all the top coaches and teams consistently recruit the top 50 and the McDonald All-Americans (who just happen to be highly rated players)? Look at the NBA lottery picks..the vast majority are high rated recruits or foreign players.

2110 Lottery Picks
1 WAS John Wall Kentucky 2 PHI Evan Turner Ohio State 3 NJN Derrick Favors Georgia Tech 4 MIN Wesley Johnson Syracuse 5 SAC DeMarcus Cousins Kentucky 6 GSW Ekpe Udou Baylor 7 DET Greg Monroe Georgetown 8 LAC Al-Farouq Aminu Wake Forest 9 UTA Gordon Hayward Butler 10 IND Paul George Fresno State 11 NOH Cole Aldrich Kansas 12 MEM Xavier Henry Kansas 13 TOR Ed Davis North Carolina 14 HOU Patrick Patterson Kentucky

Sam Constance 3 years, 7 months ago

"than why do all the top coaches and teams consistently recruit the top 50 and the McDonald All-Americans (who just happen to be highly rated players)?"


The answer to this question is actually fairly simple...

...because coaches/programs use Rivals (and similar sites) as a way to find recruits. There was recently a ruling from the NCAA about sites like Rivals needing to stop putting a pay wall to access prospect video. Turns out that lots of programs and coaches pay for services like Rivals as a key part of their evaluation process--which should be no surprise, given the sheer volume of high school recruits and the fact that recruiting (especially at big-time programs like Kansas) is a NATIONAL game, rather than a regional one.

Obviously, coaches ultimately use their own eyes once they've seen a recruit, but that initial step is a big factor in narrowing down the recruits in the process. And clearly, as we've seen from mid-to-low rated recruits becoming NPOY candidates (most recently Marcus Morris) some coaches value their own rating of these recruits over the ranking services.

There were plenty of McDonald's All-Americans in Morris' class that didn't end up being viable college basketball All-Americans.

I don't think doolindalton was saying that the rankings are completely off-base, just that they shouldn't be taken as gospel. As a general rule, recruits in the top 20 will still be better, on average, than recruits in spots 80-100, but at the end of the day, the rankings are fundamentally subjective.

Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

jhawk7782 .. excellent post. doolindalton is just wrong. Rivals rankings have historically excellent. One can always point to exceptions .. five star flops, an unranked surprise. But a great majority of the time, the stars mean something.

marchphog88: You call Marcus a "mid to low ranked recruit." Way off base. Marcus was the #29 player in the country, four stars.

It's like the myth that some hold on to about Darnell Jackson .. the guy was four stars, around #54. Or Russell Robinson. A five star guy.

Name one KU player outside the top 100 that has contributed anything in the last 5 years, other than Brady.

I tend to think, for some, if we had three five star guys, stars would then mean something. But since we don't, then they for some reason don't.

The best bet .. the one with the best odds .. is placed on the ones with the most stars.

Sam Constance 3 years, 7 months ago

Yes, I see now that Rivals had him ranked as #29 overall. I guess ESPN didn't have him ranked because he and his bro were considered "post-grad" prospects.

And I also see that when you look at Marcus' ESPN recruiting profile, he's listed with a grade of 94 (Markeiff has a 93), which if you compare that to the ratings of the other players in the 2008 class (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/rankings/_/class/2008), would place him somewhere between #67 and #81, which I could consider a mid-level recruit.

But I have to be honest, either ESPN doctors their scoring using hindsight or they've changed the rating system between 2008 and now. I distinctly remember that when the Morris brothers came in as freshmen, one was rated an 88 and the other was an 89, which is what my "mid-to-low" comment was based off of--that memory. If you look at the ESPN100, there are no recruits with a score of below 90 in the top 100.

And actually, this dichotomy between the scoring on ESPN's recruiting rankings and Rivals' sort of illustrates the inherent subjectivity and, therefore, inaccuracy of ranking high school prospects. You can have players who are 20-30 slots apart depending on which ranking service you use.

Another example: Quintrell Thomas received a '95'. Higher than both of the Morris twins. And if I had more time I would look for additional examples, but I think examples like that are far more common than people think. Quickly, here are some of the "top 25 (aka McD's AA)" recruits from the last few years. Some of these names, you might not even recognize (I didn't anyway):

Taylor King - #16, 2007 Jai Lucas - #19, 2007 BJ Mullens - #5, 2008 Delvon Roe - #15, 2008 Michael Dunigan - #22, 2008 Daniel Orton - #13, 2009 Abdul Gaddy - #14, 2009 Wally Judge - #15, 2009 Dante Taylor - #16, 2009 Ryan Kelly - #17, 2009

Granted, the chances are that, of the top-rated recruits, more often than not they will turn out to be solid players, but that's nothing more than the odds--Rivals and ESPN aren't throwing darts, they are doing evaluation and aren't going to be close a good amount of time. My only point is that said evaluations should not be substituted for actual results. People are too quick to dismiss any guy who isn't a top 50 and assume that anyone in the top 25 is going to be a stud.

Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

Late reply here, but you're right, folks sometimes dismiss guys who aren't top 50 or so. Me included. It's just he better odds that top 50 - 75 guys will hit.

Michael Pannacciulli 3 years, 7 months ago

Kenny Gregory was a sick athelete! That dude could jump!

dukehester 3 years, 7 months ago

So doe Rivals have some great track record of rankings related to actual performance once in college....once in NBA? i doubt it! nice fan hype prompter of conversation, but mostly only that. remember, dean's boy had mcd all-americans every year and never won until he went to unc and took matt dougherty's boys all the way!!

bennybob 3 years, 7 months ago

You can go back and look at rivals' class rankings from 2003 to present and see that they are right much more often then they're wrong.

and what does roy's inability to win a NC with highly ranked players have to do with the credibility of the ranking system?

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

Great? Maybe not but overall, definitely good. You can view 2003-present at rivals.com and there are a lot more hits than misses. Still..there are the Paul Georges' out there who seem to come out of nowhere to be the 10th player taken in 2010 draft. As for 'dean's boys', I'm guessing you meant Roy's (Dean retired in '97) who took 3 UNC teams loaded with highly ranked recruits to the Final 4 winning twice. Matt Dougherty should get credit for a great recruiting class but left UNC with the team in turmoil. Roy added Marvin Williams, Jr. and Earl Smith to that 2004 NCAA Championship team..so don't give Matt too much credit. Marvin Williams was the best player (imo) on that team and a OAD. Finally, Look for Roy to be in the hunt next season w/all the starters returning PLUS a good recruiting class.i.e.PF James McAdoo (8) and SF P.J. Hairston (14).

Dyrk Dugan 3 years, 7 months ago

who cares what the rankings say? they're all good players, and Self will land a couple more...and next year's class will be very good.

that's the main reason why i wanted the twins and Selby to stay. then next year's class would have shaped up very nicely. but it is what it is....and now next year, has come a year early.

bennybob 3 years, 7 months ago

Braeden Anderson, Jamari Traylor, and Kimbo are not good players.

Are they better than you and me? yes

Can they perform at a high level in the Big 12? no

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

So you agree that all the effort put in to recruiting Selby was time well spent? I mean Self's judgment said it was.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Did we ever really get to see the Real Selby?

Rivals suggests we didn't. Bill suggests we didn't. Josh Suggests we didn't.

I don't buy much into the Rival's Mystique... or the recruiting gospel that is out there. It's just words on a sheet of paper,typed onto a computer screen.

I believe in my eyes. If Darnell Jackson was the 54th Best player in his class.... I'm shocked, because he wasn't nearly that good on the floor when he first started playing, and after a couple years with Danny and Bill he became something.

There is a factor that sneaks up and bites these Recruiting sites and it's this. There is metric that shows up in every major sport that cannot be quantified by athletic ability or shot making. Things that just defy the nature of raw scientific data.

By Elitist's own hands we have heard how Russell Robinson was and Darnell were both top 150, and yet came in and impacted nothing their freshman seasons....

It's not just intuition, or Basketball IQ... which is the way it is oft attempted to be measured....

It's that thing that allowed David Eckstein to run out ground outs, or Christian Moody to continue to take charge after charge.....

For it to happen just once makes this Ranking system seem falliable. The fact that it happens every year ... that every year someone, somewhere defies the Orwellian system of Rivals and leads a team on a cinderella-esque run just goes to show... There is something you cannot accurately judge with Vertical leap or Shot trajectory.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Jamie Skeen was a 4 star....

Rodriguez was a 3 star....

Burgess was a 2 star....

Rozzell was a 2 star.....

What made these kids better than our High Elite Players ?

Troll_or_AntiTroll 3 years, 7 months ago

I trust their judgment too. Exercising judgment, they targeted other guys until only a few weeks ago. The fact that they are pursuing these guys now is a result of their desperation, not their judgment.

bennybob 3 years, 7 months ago

i was going to type a similar reply, but you pretty much nailed it right on the head.

+1

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

waywardjay..it will be interesting to see what Selby does at the next level. The NBA will decide if Rivals had it right or wrong. I am disappointed that we got the #1 overall and there was more sizzle than pop. It would have been nice to get a Durant or a Beasley but neither of them won a NC either.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

This is not directed at you mvjayhawk, I agree w/a lot you stated, but I can't help but notice that often those who put so much faith in HCBS's ability to find the diamond in the rough are also the same who want to label Selby a bust... Didn't Self recruit Selby?

addlime 3 years, 7 months ago

Self recruited Selby only after Brandon Knight and Harrison Barnes rejected KU. I think the similarities between that situation and this year are striking. KU should be doing better at getting top recruits to commit. X and the twins committed to others first. Self is very good at this, but KU has not done a good enough job in this area since the championship. That shocks me, as I thought the championship would open the floodgates. Compared to Duke, NC, and Kentucky, KU is an absolute FAIL!

hawksfan08 3 years, 7 months ago

Selby was the number 1 overall recruit last year. I think I'll ignore the rankings until I get to watch in person.

doolindalton 3 years, 7 months ago

Good answer. I wonder how many of the Butler kids were ever ranked by Rivals?

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

Gordon Hayward from last yrs team ended up as a lottery pick while almost completely unnoticed out of HS..but that's the exception, John Wall is the rule.

Jayhawklegacy 3 years, 7 months ago

Yeah and not only that dool how many people had butler playing for a national championship 2 years in a row. They didn't have a single one and done either year. Experience and work ethic is what does it. I'm going to keep saying it give me the kids that stick around few years and the kids that go hard in practices. I will take it one step further in saying Butler fans would probably be laughing at our cries, that we didn't sign the top 1-10 guys give me a break!!!!

Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

You miss the point .. it is not whether rankings are always right, or always wrong .. they are a vast majority of the time correct.

justinryman 3 years, 7 months ago

Can't help but think that if any of the 3 would be looking at Duke or committed to Duke then their rankings would be hire. Just as if Austin Rivers were to sign with Kansas he wouldn't be the overall #1.

I don't know if its an East coast bias, or KU's problems in the tournament the past 2 years. Or perhaps my conspiracy theory mind is at work?????

justinryman 3 years, 7 months ago

OK professor of English. I worked till 4 last night and am raising a kid during the day, so if I'm not up to your grammar code then well I just don't care. I have higher priorities in life than worrying about you being offended.

Really get a life or go back to your class room!!!

bennybob 3 years, 7 months ago

seriously dude, its a message board.

unless you've never had a typo your entire life, just let it go.

what purpose did your post serve other than to belittle another human being you know nothing about?

John Boyle 3 years, 7 months ago

It wasn't a typo. It was lack of knowledge of the right word to use in the situation.

drwho127 3 years, 7 months ago

Get out of here IrishDaddy!! Quit telling people what they should or should state in this forum. You obviously are not a KU fan.

drwho127 3 years, 7 months ago

should not* Whoops..I made a mistake..I should concentrate on my vocabulary!

John Boyle 3 years, 7 months ago

IrishDaddy, Most of the time I think you are a troll but I do agree with you about the horrific grammatical errors on these post. Typo's happen, poor grammar is lack of knowledge.

justinryman 3 years, 7 months ago

It's not a lack of knowledge it was just not catching it and sending it off.

Yes that is my fault, but to come on a message board and start correcting everyone is a little, well it's childish. You should reed a newspaper and see all there grammatical and spelling errors, and they have editors. But I'm sure your not big enough to go and correct them, then again your probably only good at correcting someone when you can hide behind an anonymous name on an internet bored.

See it is fun to mess with people who think they are greater than someone else. Unless you are God, well then you make daily mistakes too.

Oh and don't worry about me and filling out a job application, I have a resume and a good paying job now. If I wanted someones input I'm pretty sure I wouldn't ask you.

justinryman 3 years, 7 months ago

I also used the wrong "there" instead of the correct "their", also I used "bored" instead of board it was all done on purpose.

It just goes to show you aren't as smart as you think you are.

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 7 months ago

Yes, I see what you did there.

But I'm unsure the error was purely typographical, or if it was improper usage.

Because apparently typographical errors are acceptable, while usage errors are unacceptable.

Seriously TacoJohn. Take a deep breath. Exhale. Relax. You life must suck if you can't overlook grammar and spelling on a random internet posting.

HawkKlaw 3 years, 7 months ago

Damn man, that adds a hell of a lot of insight for the topic of the article. I'm so glad you're on top of things with that jackass Irish Kentucky fan.

By the way, if you're going to call someone out, the least you could do is use correct grammar yourself.

"the horrific grammatical errors on these post" ("Post" should be plural, you tool.)

PhogAdvisory 3 years, 7 months ago

"Typo's" indicates possession. "Typos" indicates plurality.

Glass houses, JayhawkJohn. Glass houses.

Woody Cragg 3 years, 7 months ago

Just came in to check the mail & you're still here! You're just a real "special" person to want to help so many people ID. And the term special is used in the loosest way. Why don't you get off your butt & enjoy the day doing something constructive instead of stroking your sorry-as$$ed ego with your pathetic postings? Won't be long till you're thrown offf the site again so start thinking about another hot shot username, like maybe "little east momma". Barkley may have already coined that but surely he would let you use it? Just go away jerk-off, hopefully angry cause you're already "mad."

drwho127 3 years, 7 months ago

I must have forgotten to read the bylaws of kusports.com that proper grammar is needed in order to post on this website. Hahaha :))))))))

tis4tim 3 years, 7 months ago

Since "east coast" is used as an adjective in your post, the entire term should be lowercase, not just the word "coast".

justinryman 3 years, 7 months ago

Oh no I'm a failure in spelling, grammar and in life, oh man what ever shall I do??????????

Dear loved ones,

I write you this letter telling you why I had to.....

Yeah right like that would ever happen. hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

justinryman 3 years, 7 months ago

I think my use of the wrong word by a simple accident has gotten as much run as the article.

To all the regulars, I am truly sorry to take up this much room on a single thread, but then again I didn't start the grammar police today.

tis4tim 3 years, 7 months ago

Methinks it's just a slow news day.

Wait ... methinks ... is that correct or should it be Ithinks? :)

tis4tim 3 years, 7 months ago

Methinks it's just a slow news day.

Wait ... methinks ... is that correct or should it be Ithinks? :)

John Sheehan 3 years, 7 months ago

"Irishdaddy" - Aren't you the D-Bag that spelled "Witchita" wrong in your post yesterday? Back off loser...

HawkKlaw 3 years, 7 months ago

You could've stopped at "Aren't you the D-Bag?"

Robert Brock 3 years, 7 months ago

McLemore slipped to 54 in the Scout.com ratings. He earned that rating by not showing ANYTHING on the hardwoods this past season. I have watched the kid personally and can attest that he is raw and needs to learn a lot. That said, I am glad that KU got him. He Will learn a lot; just don't expect to see a polished star right out of the gate.

ABeesus 3 years, 7 months ago

Wilt high jumped for KU as a favor to coach Easton, who was a friend of Dr. Allen. Wilt would just wait 'til the bar was at its highest, and then jump once and win. He often won at a height of 6'5". Doesn't sound like much by today's standards? Until you know that Wilt jumped over w/ a straddle kick! Same as we might jump a fence. His butt was clearing 6'5", often while still wearing his warmups.

justinryman 3 years, 7 months ago

As a past high jumper (6'6"), the ole scissors kick is tough, the barrel role is hard on the body. The Fosbury flop is by fat the greatest invention to track and field besides human growth hormones.

It is a great defeat to clear 6'5" especially when you are in warmups and sitting for a long time and using an outdated form.

Dang man, Wilt was amazing. There were NFL teams that wanted him to stand by the goal post and try and block long field goal attempts, when that was still legal.

Chris Shaw 3 years, 7 months ago

justinryman, who actually invented the style of high jumping that we see today? I know nothing about high jumping, but is the "Fosbury Flop" the style of high jumpers of today?

justinryman 3 years, 7 months ago

Dick Fosbury invented it, and yeah that's what is used today.

kureader 3 years, 7 months ago

Incredible ... it's easy to forget that Wilt was much more than a bball player.

One of my favorite KU basement photos is a signed photo of Wilt dropping the ball in the basket, towering over a bunch of 6'5" opponents. He was a monster in his day. You could see how a guy like this could score 100.

Tony Bandle 3 years, 7 months ago

I have seen BenMac play when he was in school in St.Louis. He truly has great talent, however, he needs to discipline his game and realize that he may be the best option and not force to teammates.

The kid is generous to a fault and will need to learn to maximize his skills. I totally agree with Brock...we're not going to see a star right out of the gate, but I feel his developmental upside is huge!!

WilburNether 3 years, 7 months ago

I'm not sure their rankings mean anything. After all, we got a first-hand look at how last year's Rivals #1 player turned out, didn't we.

bennybob 3 years, 7 months ago

you know who else rivals has ranked #1 overall:

Lebron James Dwight Howard Michael Beasley John Wall

How'd those predictions turn out for them?

gchawk 3 years, 7 months ago

They should get a few right, that's their job. Personally, I don't give too much credence to these "rankings", afterall, we're talking about 18 year old kids who have the propensity to change a lot, both emotionally and physically.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

I don't know Benny Bob.... On those 4 right now you have 0 Championships..... If great players are measured on their stats alone... Certainly, you have stats right there..... But you also have 0 rings.

WilburNether 3 years, 7 months ago

You forgot to mention Felipe Lopez. How did that one turn out?

Woody Cragg 3 years, 7 months ago

Nice the way you include yourself in an imaginary group.You may have to change your tune if he's a lottery pick pi$$in' away more money than you'll see in a lifetime. Your almost as sharp as Irish wussy. Wish you both hung in our barn with the rest of the hatchets & shovels. I'd find a pile to use you on.

Tony Bandle 3 years, 7 months ago

I have become totally confused regarding Deandre.

It would not surprise me if he declared somewhere tomorrow. It would not surprise me if he added 2 or 3 more schools to the mix.

All I can say is his maximum opportunity to gain playing time is with Kansas, despite the Texas defections and the possible redshirt at Duke.

At Texas, he would be with a severely weakened team under a less than stellar coach. At Duke, he be just another top recruit among a large group. At Kansas, he'd be the centerpiece of this year's recruiting class.

drwho127 3 years, 7 months ago

Yeah..I thought he was going to enroll at KU before the spring semester and commit to us..but that never happened. Hopefully, we can still get him.

3 years, 7 months ago

If Daniels was truly as interested in us as some recruiting analysts believed he was a few months ago, it’s a shame we couldn’t have found a way to get him on campus and locked up this semester. A bonus provided by having an extra scholarship lying around, I suppose. Good ol’ hindsight.

Jayhawklegacy 3 years, 7 months ago

We got his best friend as a walk-on. What else you want us to do? Someone needs to tell that kid to get his best friend Daniels down here. He should be our best recruiter.

yates33333 3 years, 7 months ago

Regarding these rankings does anyone know where Rival ranked the VCU or Butler players?

bradynsdad 3 years, 7 months ago

Does anyone know if there is a website or store that sells game DVDs? I have the national title game and I also found a set of DVDs that have the six greatest ku games ever. I was just curious to know if they made anymore DVDs.

Tony Bandle 3 years, 7 months ago

Would that be the three national title games, the demolition of Pitino's UK team in Lawrence, Cole's bytch-slapping of Hansborough in 2008 and Wilt's heroic triple overtime game??????

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 7 months ago

while Wilt's 3OT game certainly counts as one of the greatest games KU ever participated in, it would be kinda hard for me to say that it should be in the DVD set of games that KU fans would want to watch over and over again.

I guess what I'm saying is that it would be worth every KU fan watching once, but it would be difficult to see it again and again. Maybe it's a renter not an owner.

thaihawk 3 years, 7 months ago

I was at that UK game. LOL. The more recent Collison, Simien, Chalmers, and Wright breakout/overachievement games were also fun to watch. Collison's in particular was special: 24 points and 23 rebounds in a victory over Texas in 2003. I also remember Turgeon and them carving up the Sooners in the '84 big eight championship following a bad incident at AFH earlier: http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/may...

HawkKlaw 3 years, 7 months ago

I have a DVD of the 2008 NC game and the 2008 Final Four against UNC...however, the morons that manufactured the DVD put both Final Four games and the NC game on one DVD...they cut out a lot of the beginning of the UNC game when KU went on that huge run so they could fit it all on one disc! Hello...only KU fans are going to buy the DVD. Show the slaughtering of UNC please!

But I would also be interested in buying more DVDs of KU games if anyone knows where to get 'em.

HawkKlaw 3 years, 7 months ago

Oh, I forgot to mention that I also own the DVD of the 1988 NC and Final Four games that KU played in. I think I found that at Walmart in Lawrence (doubtful that Walmarts in any other Kansas towns would have that though. Maybe ebay.)

PhogAdvisory 3 years, 7 months ago

I work at a retail store in Lawrence and we have sold: -6 Greatest Games boxset -2008 NCAA Title Run boxset (6 games) -2008 National Championship game (single disc) -1988 National Championship game (single disc)

And there's also the 2008 Orange Bowl game, if you're interested in football too.

To my knowledge, that's all the official releases. Of course, if you can find a particularly tech-savvy KU fan, you can probably get unofficial releases of just about every game from the last 20 years. My 2008 NCAA Title "boxset" was actually given to me by a fan with a DVR months before the official release, so it's got a ton of CBS pregame / Bill Self show clips on it, too. :)

bradynsdad 3 years, 7 months ago

Phog I would like to know the name of the store. I come to Lawrence for a couple games every year and would like to pick some of those up.

3 years, 7 months ago

“College hoops teams that could slip in 2011-12”

I had an idea we might land on one of these lists:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jn-king_college_hoops_teams_could_slip_042811

Similar to last season though, here’s to looking forward to proving them wrong!

Sam Constance 3 years, 7 months ago

At least he had the sense to say "Kansas may still be good enough to win the Big 12, though."

Maybe there are some who are starting to get the picture after 7 straight B12 titles and remaining in national contention (some years more than others, obviously) in spite of massive defections in years past.

justanotherfan 3 years, 7 months ago

Although if you look at the list, the other strong Big XII teams this year (Texas and K-State) are also included. So unless he's predicting that Iowa State makes a huge leap, or that Mizzou acclimates to their new coach quickly, who else could you pick to win the Big XII, even if KU does lose 6-8 games during the season.

Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

The answer here is that it is most likely that Anderson, Traylor and Kimbo will not be front line players in the Big 12. Meaning highly probable. Could they be that diamond in the rough .. sure. But 95+% chance they won't. Could one be serviceable? Sure. But you ain't getting a Marcus (#29), Markieff (#49), or TRob (#31). Be real.

For those that have said above to "trust Self's judgment", look at his quote on Anderson .. “Braeden is a guy we identified late,” Self said. “When we felt like the (Morris) twins would probably be leaving, we looked for the best available big guy there was in the country."

Emphasis on "best available." Three things. 1) Not a ringing edorsement. 2) scrambling to fill an opening. 3) What does that say about Traylor if Anderson at the time of the signing was the "best available."

marchphog88 said above that Marcus was a "mid to low ranked recruit." Way off base. Marcus was the #29 player in the country, four stars. It's like the myth that some hold on to about Darnell Jackson .. the guy was four stars, around #54. Or Russell Robinson. A five star guy.

Is there one KU player outside the top 100 that has contributed anything in the last 5 years, other than Brady? No. I tend to think, for some, if we had three five star guys, stars would then mean something. But since we don't have the "stars", then "stars" or rankings suddenly don't matter as much or at all. And we tend to forget or ignore the stars that were attached to our recruits the last five years now that we are "star deficient." Seems like blind homerism to me, wishful thinking, viewing through the reliable crimson and blue colored glasses, or sheer delusion to try to dress up our current situation. It's a silly exercise.

It is what it is, but nothing better .. you can dress me up like a princess, crown me, and serve me tea, but I still ain't a princess.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

You like to call other people blind.... Got a problem with trusting your own eyes, Elitist ?

Yeah all the "good" picks were off the board once the Morri developed..... D*mn, Kids saw the Morri, Trob, and potentially Withey as severe threats to their playing time. And then the last month of the season comes and BOTH twins are knocking it out of the Park.....

So we have to adapt. We didn't overload the post like we overload guard, we may just have to make due with 3-4 star forwards instead of 5 star forwards.... I still dispute your logic on the Darnell argument.... It may be factual that he was ranked 54th in that class, but he certainly was nowhere the finished project that your argument suggests. I would say he didn't become the 54th best in his class until 2 years plus Danny tutelage ( some of it on the DL as a "practice coach" )

These rankings are inline with NBA value.... and their "rankings" are highly weighted on potential.... IE, an Athletic 7 footer can be the 8th best center in his class (2008), and the number 36 overall recruit... and be languishing on the bench..... ( don't look to hard.... It's Withey... Save you the trouble )....

It's grading tangibles... and it can be accurate.

Personally, I think we have seen in several instances what happens when that potential explodes to become something more significant. IE, Look at Derrick Rose and the impact on his game this year. The difference is when determinable Intangibles meets elite skill.

However, far too often, Intangibles make the differences between support players and Outstanding athletes..... IE Brady and Tyrel Playing ( even though it irritated me to no end ) and Elijah and Josh sitting.

Now, With that #1 overall sitting, we won 30+ games..... had a 90% winning percentage, and you are going to lecture us on that Coach's eyes for talent ?

Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

I'll bite. 1) Look at national champions over the past 10 years and tell me their player's rankings. Here ours - KU starting lineup in 2008: Robinson - 5 stars #27 Chalmers - 5 stars #12 Rush - 5 stars #13 Jackson - 4 stars #54 Arthur - 5 stars #16 Subs Kaun - 4 stars #34 Collins - 5 stars #21 Aldrich - 4 stars #30

2) Derrick Rose, 5 stars, #3 overall. 3) All players need time to develop. I do not want one and done players. We probably agree there .. I don't know. But your Derrick Rose example .. he was a freshman in 2008. He would have been a senior this season. He probably met his ranking his first season. Jackson did take some time to develop. But no one has said rankings equal immediate impact, have they? It is "who is most likely to be the best player", right? And I never argued that Jackson was a finished project, nor implied it .. but does that matter to you? 4) Would we have been better off playing EJ and Selby over Reed and Brady vs. VCU? We know we wouldn't have turned out worse. 5) I will lecture you on the coach's eyes for talent. He has an excellent eye for talent. But again, you miss the point. My point is not that he doesn't have an eye for talent, but rather that we've been put in a position of taking players that weren't on his radar earlier .. that is, Anderson and Kimbo were scrutinized off his radar by his discerning eye for talent. See, you want to support Self so bad (or disagree with me) that you fail to see the situation for what it is, claiming some magical Bill Self formula that has never existed before (meaning and eye for unranked or really low ranked talent). The only unranked guy of consequence .. Brady .. is one we probably would have preferred to have played 10-12 minutes. There is no history that says Self has an eye for unranked talent, while playing the level of ball expected at KU. He just hasn't won that way. 6) You say the rivals rankings are more like NBA value? Man, give me 5 NBA players in our lineup. But I think you're right .. who is most likely to be the best player. But for rivals, it's over a college career. One that might be interrupted by turning pro, however, and thus not allowing us to prove or disprove the their rankings. 7) Great Withey example .. but of course, jury is still out. On one hand (and most often), you sing coach Self's praises regarding his eye for talent .. trust Bill, we hear .. but shouldn't that apply to Withey, too? I think it should. As of now, bust. But let's see. But if he's a bust, could it be that coach Self was wrong .. sun rising in the west type stuff? But the jury is still out. 8) And before you blame the twins possibly staying too much for us not getting a top big guy, you might look at a few other top programs to see their classes and the talent they secured .. Syracuse, UNC, etc. But it is a valid argument. Things just didn't break right this season in our recruiting of post players. We just needed to hit on one stud, and we didn't.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

  1. Look at Butler the last two years in the title game with Shevlin mack a 3 star and haywood at best a 4 star....

Those No-star players are often one teams with other deficencies ..... IN College Basketball the better team usually wins... but does not always..... Case in Point, Kansas VCU...

  1. And Derrick rose couldn't shot outside 10 feet as a freshman... The Rankings are all on what you will do as a pro.... And this year, was the first year he should an ounce of Work ethic.... Kudos to him for getting better all around... And Kudos to Tom Thibbodeau for getting him there...

  2. All players except Braedan Anderson, Kimbro, or Traylor. they gotta be perfect game 1 season 1. relax the kids will be fine.

4.Honestly, I think we could have been better playing Ej... not sure Selby would have Improved the game much... But travis deserved a shot too.... I know you think I think Bill does no wrong, but I could see a valid point in playing those kids minutes over tired/injured Tyrel and cold Brady. Infact, you and I were on the same side of the whole Brady Debate.

  1. no I see your point, i just think your point is off base.... Until March we did not necessarily need those kids immediately. Once Morri squared went pro... we were out on the big name kids who COULD definitely fill the scoreboard down low. Should he lie to kid's about what he expects just to get them to come to our school ? He truly expected to be 4 deep.... and now we are 3 deep potentially.....

  2. No I said Rivals rankings are exactly like what the NBA drafts..... They lean towards those metrics more than Players who have... umm achieved something. Rivals Rankings...all about potential. Nba Drafting.. All about potential.... with the glaring exceptions of the few NBA GMS who actually know a thing or two about Value players... Occasionally one or two sticks around.

  3. I agree with you actually that Withey is a Great example of how Rivals Ratings are garbage. I also agree with you that If he ever catches up to his Frame he could be a great player..... But He certainly is not the 8th best center in that draft... Yet, and I would say even if he blows it up the next two... We are looking at long shot of him retaining that "hype."

  4. And I'm telling you... it's not the end of the world if we don't hit that stud... It's not like we are asking Jeff Capel to work with what Oklahoma had this year. We still got a reasonable Core to start with.... and Bill's recruits are usually maliable. There is a good chance in two years they could be servicable backups at worst, and producing big12 players at best.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

(cont'd )

What past history do we have to suggest Players will not get better from our tutelage? My thought is Don't call them a stiff based on the ranking system that may not see them being a productive players.... Trust in the system that has worked extremely wwell to develop players talents to the max ability of what they could become.... there is no telling what these kids could end u like in 3-4 years based on current projection. We do Know we have the best Big man Coach in the nation, and chances are there ability to follow his lead in practice will make them at least serviceable at their prospective positions.

Nothing Bill has won at ever level with every type of player imaginable. He has won playing Zone extensively, He has won playing straight up Man. He has won with the High Low, he has run doing motion with crafty guards.

One thing is certain, These "lower" star Kids are much more likely to dive on the floor for their dinner at Kansas. I would expect our team to play more tenacious Defense without having to worry about the NBA draft after the season.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

It might just kill you to know this, but at my work there is a Kentucky fan, and he said to me the other day when discussing basketball....

I don't know if there is a better coach in the Nation than Bill Self, He's an excellent in game coach, he's an outstanding recruiter, he's great with the media.... there isn't a thing he is deficient at.

This is a Kentucky fan, extolling the virtues of OUR coach.

You think you could do any better, Elitist ?

John Boyle 3 years, 7 months ago

You are an idiot. You would probably want us to hire Calipari so we could win it all at any cost. I have met Bill Self and he is the genuine deal. He not going to get our season vacated because of his actions. KU won 35 games this year after they were picked to finish 4th in the Big 12. That's pretty good coaching in my book.

John Boyle 3 years, 7 months ago

Probably because our President picked them. He has been wrong about almost everything else since he took office. Just joking please don't take offense to a political statement. I dislike all politicians. And the "experts" have been wrong more often than not in recent years. You guys get way to hung up on "mid majors". More so than in any other major sport (because there are only 5 guys on the court), the mid majors can compete and in many cases be even with the power conferences. It is still the exception rather than the rule but it does happen more than we power conference people would like to admit.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Because the best team doesn't win every year.

6 losses the last two season combined. 6!

4 of 5 years at 30+ wins.

Yeah it sucks big time we have won 1 title in that span, but the NCAA tourney is not everything.

Troll_or_AntiTroll 3 years, 7 months ago

They praise Self because they fear neither him nor KU. We express hatred for Calipari not because he's a cheater (there are plenty of those out there), but because we fear him and his recruiting prowess.

John Boyle 3 years, 7 months ago

No, we hate him because he is a cheater. He has ties to KU which in most cases has the KU family cheering for him. But he has consistently gotten programs in trouble and then headed on to greener pastures. We at KU don't care much for that kind of action. I'm sure he had no idea that Rose had someone take the SATs for him just like he had no idea about the Camby situation back at UMass. In case you didn't know, that last sentence was sarcasm.

Troll_or_AntiTroll 3 years, 7 months ago

Sounds like Kelvin Sampson, who is rarely (if ever) mentioned here.

Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

wayward: Seriously, you have a limited ability to comprehend. But you do what most simple minded folks do ... you create strawman arguments. Meaning things that don't exist.

I always love the simpletons that respond, "so you think you could do better." Or, "you're not a D-1 coach so shut up."

I have never said that. But facts aren't your strong point.

It is kind of funny, your example .. it simply highlights what you are about. Bill Self is God. He is perfect.

I can tell you .. and hold onto your union card here ... Bill Self actually does make mistakes. He is human. He is fallible. He can make tactical mistakes, both in game and recruiting.

On the other hand, I wouldn't trade him for any other coach.

But I have to acknowledge, you pointing out that a UK fan says our coach is great is really an amazing piece of information. Please, give us more. It is so, so enlightening. By the way, you get zero debate points for that, fyi.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Elitist.

Attacking the poster is not attacking the post. All those words and none of them relevant, And you say I have a limited capability of comprehending things.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

The truth is that next years recruits (unless Lacey and Daniels surprise the 'experts'), will form the lowest ranked class under Self's tenure. I was surprised Murray decided against even visiting Kansas.

Ben, despite slipping in the ratings is a class recruit. I don't know enough about Naadir Tharpe to comment. I really don't expect a lot from 3 star players in their first 2 years.. Quintrell (150) and Royce (120) are both quality players who knew how hard it was going to be to get significant minutes. I hope to be proven wrong but I thought Self was getting desperate with Braeden Anderson.. Using up another scholarship just to get another big body is a waste.

At this point, I think we should hold onto the remaining scholarships for 2012 and try to match the class of 2008:

Marcus Morris: No. 29 overall, No. 10 PF Markieff Morris: No. 50 overall, No. 18 PF Travis Releford: No. 70 overall, No. 16 SG Tyshawn Taylor: No. 77 overall, No. 11 PG Mario Little: SF

These are the type of players who will stick around 3-4 yrs and give us a foundation that can win a championship. I really thought this (2011) was our year.

It worked with his first recruiting class (2004):

Russell Robinson (27) Alexander Kaun (34) Darnell Jackson (54)

And Self's second recruiting class (2005) put all the puzzle pieces together.

HawkKlaw 3 years, 7 months ago

Using a scholarship for a big body isn't a waste when you only have 3 big men currently on the roster...

Sam Constance 3 years, 7 months ago

"marchphog88 said above that Marcus was a "mid to low ranked recruit." Way off base. Marcus was the #29 player in the country, four stars. It's like the myth that some hold on to about Darnell Jackson .. the guy was four stars, around #54. Or Russell Robinson. A five star guy."


Your analysis is based solely on the rankings from ONE service: Rivals.

And I think that's a big problem, especially given that an individual recruit can have a variance of 86+ slots differently between just ESPN and Rivals. And it gets less accurate, seemingly, the higher the recruits are. So, in the top 10-15, they are all pretty close, but as you move up the rankings, you have guys in the 20s on one board and in the 60s on another. You can say one is right and the other is wrong, but unless you can tell me why one is better than the other, your preference doesn't really relate to end results for these recruits.

I looked through ESPN's top 100 and compared it to the Rivals 150 and of those 100 players, 63 were at least 10 slots different from one list to the other. Additionally:

37 of 100 prospects varied by at least 20 slots from one list to the other 24 of 100 prospects varied by at least 30 slots from one list to the other 15 of 100 prospects varied by at least 40 slots from one list to the other 12 of 100 prospects varied by at least FIFTY slots from one list to the other.

Fifty slots is the difference between being a top 50 recruit and being outside the top 100, which you seem to have drawn as your arbitrary line. And there were a couple of guys who were on one list and weren't even on the other, for a minimum difference of 86 slots (Trevor Cooney) and 71 slots (Jabril Trawick).

Doesn't that strike you as a problem for making such definitive evaluations about players from one of those sites? It's those kind of oddities that make it inherently hard for me to put too much stock in ANY recruiting ranking, even though you are correct that you can get very raw approximations of where recruits stand in relation to one another.

William Weissbeck 3 years, 7 months ago

Unless I missed it, not one mention of Selby, Henry or Wright.

duanep5ku 3 years, 7 months ago

wayward jay good post. To HighElite- I mean,c'mon HighElte Arrogance- do you really want to criticize an incoming player value based on his rankings? before he even arrives on campus to play. I mean do you not even get how arrogant that sounds, I mean if that's the way you think then you would sound like UK fans. 'Oh I know your a KU fan but if we start judging a High school player by just the rankings then our program would be in trouble. I mean do you then want to tell all none 4 and 5 stars not to come here because there not good enough, See how arrogant that sounds.

I do understand what you mean about the other top 100 player's not doing much here recently. However that argument does lose some of it's credibility on here too because their were upperclassmen on the team and did they have a chance to play.

I do know that the current player's left that are committing to Kansas. Those player's may not be as highly ranked as some but they possess athleticism that we will need and they can be good players and contribute to the team. I think we can forget the rankings for now and give them a chance to perform on the court before we bash them on here.

I know this longtime Kansas fan is looking forward to the unknown season that is looming next year without all the one and done,Hoopla surrounding them.

HawkKlaw 3 years, 7 months ago

+1

It is totally arrogant to judge these players before we see them play in a KU uniform. People complain about how poorly Selby played this year and then turn around and say that we should continue going after OAD type players. I think mid-majors and smaller schools have benefited greatly from getting guys who aren't OADs. Look at the tournament results lately.

And what do we expect Bill Self to do, go after the worst possible big men? We only had 3 big men on the roster when we went after Anderson, so we had to get at least 1 more big...and like Self said, we got the best possible one. Can't please everyone though obviously...

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 7 months ago

"It is totally arrogant to judge these players before we see them play in a KU uniform."

There is an entire industry built around doing just that..to deny it is either naive or hypocritical.

What couch would waste his time tracking down low or unranked players? Do you think HCBS doesn't use these 'predictors'? Every coach at least looks at these ratings even if they have little chance of landing a 5 star player. No top coach bases his offers solely on rankings but you have to start somewhere and that is what these databases do.

Why was there so much bragging when Self was landing in the top team rankings year after year..until this year. Now ranking players is arrogant? All the regular posters here have looked at Rivals, Scout, or some other database. Is it just coincidence that most of the recruiting talk lately has centered on Lacey and Daniels of late? I guess it would be arrogant to say they are the highest ranked players left and fit our needs.

What is the name of this article? "KU basketball recruits slip in latest rankings"

Somebody is using the ratings as a predictor. Would all the talk about signing Perry Ellis and not letting Cal sign him even be mentioned if he was not in the top 75?

HEM nailed it.

WilburNether 3 years, 7 months ago

"What couch would waste his time tracking down low or unranked players?"

Perhaps you should go to a furniture store and ask one.

HawkKlaw 3 years, 7 months ago

How is that statement naive? There's nothing childlike about reserving your judgment until you see the player actually play. I'm not saying its arrogant to for websites to rate players. I just reserve my personal judgment until after I see the kid play. And hypocritical? I haven't made any contradictory statements about this issue.

Did you ever see me bragging when Self landed Selby or Xavier? Nope. I just think its way too early to say things like, "Anderson, Traylor and Kimbo will not be front line players in the Big 12," considering Anderson IS a front line player in the Big 12. That's just a moronic statement.

duanep5ku 3 years, 7 months ago

HawkKlaw I guess some on here base all their knowledge from reading the rankings.

However the NBA ,D league is currently filled with many of their highly ranked players right now.

I'm with you HawkKlaw- how can you judge a player by just those facts alone.

I get the rankings mean something to a lot of people on here but you should not trash a player that is not ranked high if he chooses to come to Kansas.

I mean if you need bodies take what you can get and only time will judge their value to the team,not the rankings.

I know some of us older fans only have to remember 1998

The Danny Manning 1988 team was so depleted of bodies that Larry Brown had to get bodies from somewhere, to even have enough bodies for practice. Larry grabbed Clint Normore off the football team. I mean imagine that Kansas needing bodies so bad that Larry had to bring the program down by bringing in a football player off the bench. What was his rank?at the time. Did he mean nothing to the team because Clint was not a starter? or one of those must have 4,5 star guys. However, what I do remember was the game Clint against OU. He came off the bench to score 7 points in the first half of the Championship game. Including a deep three at the buzzer as the first half ended. KU 50 OU 50 and the rest of the game was mostly Danny and role players contributing what they could in spots and you know what the results were pretty good for Kansas fans.

AZHawk72 3 years, 7 months ago

Great work on the past ratings and numbers, jhawk Mike...

...my wife found mine and pitched them, said they were "disgustingly too much!" She, obviously, wasn't a history major. I don't know if we've ever lost an unrated player as we might with Traylor. I think Langford was unrated by most--I'd take another one of those "finds" anytime. I don't know why, but lately I'm more comfortable with players ranked 50+--they might actually stay 3-4 years, and we can make an attempt at cohesion. The only thing worse than this year's mass exodus is our lack of early signings from 2012--especially, with about 8 listing Kansas as a finalist. We need to close out 2-3 early for a change, so we can maintain a reasonable blood pressure throughout next season.

Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

I just got back to this from yesterday.

What many are missing here .. and the point is probably this simple: Don't get excited about this class. That's it. More precisely, Anderson.

All we are talking about .. everyone .. is the class "on paper." We don't know yet, for sure. But when do you ever know "for sure?" It takes a while. We will never know "for sure" on Selby.

But .. and this is important .. history says that rankings mean something. And all of our discussion is based on rankings, conjecture, and some youtube video, right? That's why the "expert" rankings hold weight, as jayhawk7782 pointed out. Again, they ain't perfect .. but they are pretty darn good. Certainly good enough to make reasonable assessments.

There was a nice post above showing highly rated duds. But those are exceptions to the rule.

I appreciate the optimism of many of you .. even of waywardjay. More importantly, I appreciate the loyalty to coach Self. You guys that see the glass more than half full on our current recruiting class do so for the right reasons. I hope you're right. Really, Tharpe and McLemore are dead solid. The point of discussion is really Anderson and the lack of a top big. If the "best available" guy in April .. Anderson .. hits, we're all happy.

One thought, though. The reason the Anderson issue is so important is because we will be relying upon him next season, given how thin we are. That makes it different. If there was a year we needed a top guy at the 4-5 spots, it's now. So that makes it different. We are relying upon an unranked freshman to be the first guy in at the 4-5 spots, or on a walkon (Wesley). And .. a big "and" .. Withey is one of the top two guys. That is why the Anderson deal, and our lack of a top big is such a huge deal.

And that is why .. on that point .. I see the glass a bit more than half empty.

Now, if we sign Daniels, though he is really a 3, we have a top guy who is 6-8 and that gives us options. My view then tranforms to more than half full.

HawkKlaw 3 years, 7 months ago

I agree that every year we would certainly like to have a top guy at the 4-5 spot. And guess what, we have TRob. I'm going to make a "bold prediction" and say that there won't be a better big man in the country next year. Look at how Ohio State did this year with Sullinger being their standout big...they didn't really get a lot of big numbers out of their other post players. If you have a post player on that level, all you need is a role player for the other big. I think we'll get what we need out of Anderson, Withey and Wesley (not to mention there's still a possibility of landing another big). They may not put up big numbers, but they'll be doing the little things to help us win. Plus, with the depth we have at the guard positions, I can see us playing a lot of "4 guards, 1 forward" offense, in which case TRob will be the only big on the court.

And I, for one, am pretty excited about our recruits. BMac will contribute immediately and will occasionally light up the scoreboard. Tharpe probably won't see the court as much as BMac next year but I think over the span of 4 years he will become a very solid pure PG at KU (something I'm excited to see, given that PG was my position back in the day). I already mentioned that Anderson will be a role player that will also contribute a lot next year. May not be as flashy as our 2012 prospects but I think they've got a chance to do great things for KU.

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