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Originally published April 19, 2011 at 11:28a.m., updated April 19, 2011 at 03:13p.m.

Will KU basketball team play Wichita State? Zenger’s not so sure after hearing about ‘chickenhawks’ comment

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Speaking to Lawrence Rotarians on Monday, Sheahon Zenger, Kansas University athletics director, didn’t hold back when asked whether he would consider playing Wichita State University in basketball.

He said that any scheduling decisions would be done in consultation with Coach Bill Self and his staff.

But Zenger said an email that someone had sent him — which said Wichita State coach Gregg Marshall had called KU “chickenhawks” — wasn’t helpful.

“You need to think about what you say, Mr. Marshall,” he said. “Don’t be flippant about your remarks about the flagship institution.”

Larry Rankin, an assistant athletics director at Wichita State, detailed the nature of the coach’s comments, which were made during a pep rally after the basketball team won the postseason National Invitation Tournament.

“During the rally a fan got Coach Marshall’s attention by yelling ‘chickenhawks’ during a lull in the speech, and Coach Marshall acknowledged him by reading the fan’s sign which also said chickenhawks on it,” Rankin wrote in an email.

Comments

d_prowess 3 years, 7 months ago

I like the fire this guy shows at times!

100 3 years, 7 months ago

After all of these years of the national media following every move the Shockers make to the expense of the University of Kansas, Fort Hays & Emporia State.... Could it be true that Wichita State is "actually not" the flagship institution of the state of Kansas?

For a second there I thought WSU actually had control of this decision whether we would play them or not....

Love our new AD!!!!!!!!

P.S. Go Shockers. For the most part we've always rooted for you from afar. Call us chickens if you want, but we still like you guys. We'll play some away games in Wichita against teams like USC, but there's no real reason to play you when you write your query letter calling us chickens. Go Shockers. Go Jayhawks. Together our basketball programs carry the state of Kansas. If you want to play us, join the Big 12/10. Until then you have twice as many fans. With chickens on your side.

P.P.S. Chickens evolved from dinosaurs.

P.P.P.S. Chickens eat wheat.

omng392 3 years, 7 months ago

Speak for yourself, there is only one school in this state and its KU or nothing.

R.J. Dickens 3 years, 7 months ago

"Flagship institution?" "Flagship institution?" Which Regents' institution has led in the number of Rhoades, Marshall, Truman, Goldwater and Fullbright scholarships over the past 30 years? Hint: It ain't yours, Mr. Zenger. (Hint #2: And it sure ain't Hillside High, either).

Phillbert 3 years, 7 months ago

Nice use of "over the past 30 years" since KU blows Silo Tech out of the water on those figures if you don't limit the time scale.

Chris Bailey 3 years, 7 months ago

Even holding a degree from WSU having graduated there in 1999. I still hold my Jayhawks in higher regard. Obviously I don't use my WSU degree as my username suggests. I do root for the Shockers and was very happy with their post season win. I don't see any need to wake a sleeping giant though (in KU). The state is dominated by KU/KSU fans not WSU. And if WSU wants to play KU calling us out probably isn't the way to go about it.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 7 months ago

There are KU fans...lumping us in with KSU is like lumping KU fans in with any other "institution" in Kansas.

I believe that the "purple headed stepchild" is what KSU is.

100 3 years, 7 months ago

A little tongue & cheek in my above post boys...

Thanks for calling it out. If you want a real solution with a brief ("brief" being the key word) description of WSU's respectable basketball standing in the state of Kansas compared to ours, here it is....

Obviously historically Kansas is "the program" in Kansas.

Historically I'd put WSU a distant second in the state, although some would argue third.

Nationally it's not even a contest.

Point is...

Even with their calling us chickens, it is impossible to feel any animosity towards the NIT champs... The truth is, if their athletic department would do the research across the state of Kansas, they would find WSU actually has twice as many casual basketball citizens as they might realize who wish them well due to not playing us. At least we might notice their score in the paper or possibly watch one of their games if it happens to be on TV.

If we ever started playing them again it would lower their fan numbers by half, especially with the way one can see there could very well be some deep seeded animosity on their side calling us "chickens"....

Again, I say take the higher ground...

Applaud them from afar.

If we want to schedule a midmajor, make it different one each year, the game played at a neutral site (say St. Louis), the Midmajor typically from the northeast would be a good place to start.... Scheduled exactly a year in advanced based on research....

Only one that is predicted to win their league & one that should be an NCAA team.

Otherwise playing WSU on a yeay basis does no good for us.

Play one midmajor a year in January. On a neutral court, far away from KC to be effective & also help us with future recruits.

That's the solution.

WSU only wants this to raise their profile.

In reality it lessens their fanbase (I would stop applauding them from afar), it helps them recruit, & it doesn't help us with a "real" NCAA tournament feel, because it would be played at one of our home courts, and also would be played against two teams that know each other well after season after season of playing each other.

It would benefit us zero. It possibly could give us a false perception of what could happen with a solid east coast or northern midmajor on a neutral court.

The game must be researched every year. And it must be played on a neutral court away from the Sprint center to give us any benefit in the NCAA tournament....

And the benefits could be great.

oldprofessor 3 years, 7 months ago

I'm a Shocker season ticket holder and he said it. Here's the link to the video. Skip forward to 11:20 and judge for yourself.

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/NIT-Champion-Shockers-return-to-Wichita/zX3HMbVoiki4Dx4jyMXIlA.cspx

jc1306 3 years, 7 months ago

Doesn't sound to me like he was "reading a sign".

Hawkin8r 3 years, 7 months ago

Agree, he didn't appear to be reading a sign. The reference to KU in the context of what he was saying also didn't make much sense. He seemed to get caught up in rah-rah-rahing his guys and had to throw us in too. For those who didn't watch, he was talking about how the Shockers don't look like a mid-major and how other teams in the area might want to have guys from his team. MAYBE Nebraska would like some of the Shockers to be Big Red guys, but KU doesn't - otherwise they would have come here and not to Shockerland. I don't think we lost any guys to them on the recruiting trail...or would if it came to a choice between the schools. lol

And for them to come out with that lame excuse of "reading a sign" when anyone can see the video makes it doubly stupid. They should have just left it alone and called our AD personally to explain, not give some lame "sign" excuse.

I'm not hating on them for it, but was a lame remark from a coach in any context and I'm glad our AD called them out.

mirsinairee 3 years, 7 months ago

Gee Zenger, I am sure that Self will really "consult" with you when he is making up his basketball schedule. We all know that Self as the bball coach controls the school, not you. I tell you what Wichita State fans may pay to see though. How about a charity boxing or MMA event between Tyshawn Taylor and Thomas Robinson? It seems all too clear here recently that both of these "student athletes" enjoy fighting. As far as KU being the "flagship" university, you are right. I mean, every flagship university should play powerhouse basketball schools in your nonconference schedule such as Washburn and UMKC. I mean, look at how many NCAA tournament appearances that those schools have made right?

Benjamin Jones 3 years, 7 months ago

Sounds to me like he has a cob up his butt.

Kratos 3 years, 7 months ago

I hope they do play. Im a huge KU fan but I'm a student at WSU. It would be a tough game for me but any result would be good for me.

Saguaro_Jayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Problem with WSU and the series is they wanted out of it BADLY in the mid-1990s. Take a look at the scores during that era.

If they want to renew the series, then WSU needs to recommit to making it competitive, at least worthy of live espn coverage.

doctorWho 3 years, 7 months ago

What you are saying is true. But then KU vs WSU will generate a hell of lot more fan interest than KU vs TAMUCC, no matter what the score.

Jacobpaul81 3 years, 7 months ago

It also needs to be on a neutral court like the Sprint Center. It would be worth it for KU to host, but it is not worth it for KU to travel to Wichita. The Roundhouse only seats 10,500. By Comparison, Allen seats 16,300 and the Sprint Center over 19,000.

By Comparison, you won't see Purdue or Indiana playing Indiana State in Terre Haute... The Hulman Center only seats 10,200 while Mackey seats 14,123 and Assembly Hall is 17,500.

These cross state match-ups are great if they are profitable, but there's no reason for the bigger schools (IE: Kansas / Kansas State or Purdue/Indiana) to travel to the smaller (MVC) school's arena. While the Missouri Valley Schools can compete on the national level, (clearly WSU, MSU, and ISU were all NCAA tourney teams), it is only a good arrangement if they travel to a neutral court.

IF KSU, KU and WSU want to meet in KC or PU, IU & ISU in Indianapolis, then it could be profitable. But home and homes will never happen.

WuHawk2 3 years, 7 months ago

@Jacobpaul81 You seem to be forgetting Intrust Bank Arena, which seats 15-17k (15K for basketball).

GoShox 3 years, 7 months ago

What on Earth are you talking about? What "series" was there in the 90s? Answer=None. The last time KU played in Wichita was in 1988 and they lost. I believe there was also a pre-season tournament game sometime in the early 90s where KU whipped WSU pretty handily. However, there has not been a home-home or other arrangement in more than 30 years.

53jayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

I believe you are mistaken - WSU beat KU 54-49 on 01-06-87 at WSU. Since then, KU beat WSU 93-66 on 01-04-90 and 81-51 on 01-08-92 and both of these games were played at WSU according to the KU basketball media guide. I know there are mistakes in the media guide (in 1 place the date is incorrectly listed as 01-09-90 for the 1990 game), but I attended all 3 of those games, as well as the 3 KU victories in Lawrence subsequent to the loss at WSU in 1987. KU won 86-66 on 01-25-89; 84-50 on 01-23-91 and 103-54 on 01-06-93. Thirty years from the last game would be 2023 - accuracy should count for something.

GoShox 3 years, 7 months ago

Corrected-20 years. I am also fairly certain that at least one of the 1990 and 1992 games were in pre-season tournaments but I also could be mistaken.

53jayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

After loosing to WSU in the 1981 NCAA Midwest Regional, KU and WSU entered into a 9 game scheduling agreement with KU hosting 6 games and WSU hosting 3 (a 2 for 1 home schedule agreement). KU hosted 2 of their 6 games in KC (including the 12/85 game which was part of the BMA classic). Technically the BMA Classic game might qualify as a preseason tournament - like our home games against Valpo and TAMCC this year were part of the Las Vegas Invitational.

Saguaro_Jayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

You obviously do not follow Kansas hoops.

The 2 progarms met as a result of signed contracts, i.e. not a chance meeting during a tournament, on the following dates . . . Feb 5, 1984, Jan 5, 1985, Dec 28, 1985, Jan 6, 1987, Jan 25, 1989, Jan 9, 1990, Jan 23, 1991, Jan 8, 1992 and Jan 6, 1993, a total of 9 games.

That is a longer series than many major conference schools commit to now.

Saguaro_Jayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Not sure SZ understands the context of the "chickenhawks" remark. It was initiated by a WSU fan at a post-NIT rally and GM then commented about it. All considered, it was harmless.

Sam Constance 3 years, 7 months ago

Harmless, but still in poor taste for the head coach.

And from what I've read, it sounds like he was talking about how WSU isn't "mid-major" and was asking the crowd if Alabama would want any of their players...or Washington, and then he added "or maybe the Chickenhawks?"

I believe he was referencing some ridiculous signs the crowd had saying "Rock Shock Chickenhawk", but he still make the choice to go there.

The thing that cracks me up about WSU is the level of vitriol they have for Kansas. It's funny to me because most KU fans either root for the Shockers, being a fellow representative of the state of Kansas, or they don't know anything about them. Yet somehow Shocker fans have convinced themselves that there is this rivalry. It's reminds me of the whole little brother who wants attention, so he antagonizes his older brother/sister, preferring negative attention to no attention at all.

If you spliced the genes of a Wildcat fan and a Tiger fan, you'd get a Shocker fan. The "hey, we're your rival too!" angst of the KSU fans, and the unabridged distaste for KU of MU fans.

Cegorach 3 years, 7 months ago

Please, point me in the direction of anyone of importance stating there is a rivalry between KU and WSU?

I'm a KU fan, and a WSU shocker fan, and I find your comments to be very prude and self-absorbed. The whole 'high and mighty' attitude you carry around is what makes KU unfavorable by many.

KU (during the Roy Williams tenure) found it necessary to brag about their support for local schools, and used this as an excuse to pound Emporia, Fort Hays, and the likes into the ground. All in good taste of course.

Yet... WSU was completely overlooked. Why? What did KU have to gain from playing WSU in the 90's? Absolutely nothing. The WSU program was a mess and they were desperate for wins. Playing KU was not in their sites. However - the program today is definitely on the rise. They have beaten many nationally ranked teams the past couple years, and they came extremely close to upsetting this year’s National Champion ( I believe they were up by 9 at one time).

Looking at the matchup today, I do believe it would be in KU's favor to schedule Wichita State.

Marchphog - what would you do if KU did schedule WSU, and the shockers actually won the game? Would you still drink your wine with a pinky in the air, snort and say 'these mongrel curs were lucky. Come. Let us wash of hands of these filthy Wichita eating utensils.’

Believe it or not, the gap between the ‘Mid-Major’ and the ‘Major’ is thinner than ever. Care to argue that one? Take it up with VCU and Butler.

Jonathan Allison 3 years, 7 months ago

WSU fans are widely known to wear shirts that say "K Who?" and the ones that I know frequently try to bash KU... much like the K-State crowd.

I don't think that Marchphog said anything wrong or controversial, except maybe for the part about spliced genes between KSU and mu.

It's weird to me why so many WSU fans are anti-KU. Does anyone know how WSU fans feel about KSU? The only thing I can think of is that maybe the WSU fan base is divided into pro-KU and pro-KSU fans... but that seems unlikely because it seems like they are trying to have their own identity.

I wish that we did have a regular home and home with them. It would be good for the state of Kansas to have sort of a round robin state champion.

WuHawk2 3 years, 7 months ago

"WSU fans are widely known to wear shirts that say "K Who?""

"It's weird to me why so many WSU fans are anti-KU."

Pure hogwash. I'm sure there are WSU fans who are not fans of KU and do bash them. Fine. But there are many WSU fans who are also KU fans.

Jason Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

I have lived in Wichita for 6 years (After graduating from KU) and I've never seen a K-Who shirt anywhere in Wichita.

Also, I've never seen anyone here bash KU, aside from saying they wish WSU and KU or WSU and KSU would play each other (there are as many KSU fans in Wichita as there are KU fans)

Sam Constance 3 years, 7 months ago

@Cegorach,

For starters, my note about the "rivalry" was really an allusion to the attitude that I see from many WSU fans. I couldn't point you to any specific comments where someone said "there is a rivalry between KU and WSU" and it's honestly a cheap request. My inability to put my hands on such a ridiculously manufactured quote doesn't change the fact that I've picked up on an attitude that implies a feeling of rivalry.

In fact, Cegorach, your post is a perfect example of the attitude I'm talking about, ironically. Although admittedly, yours is a fairly toned-down version.

I'm "prude" because I've picked up on an attitude many (not all, of course) have towards Kansas? As I noted in my post, Gregg Marshall's comment about "chickenhawks" was made at a rally for WSU's NIT championship, in response to signs that said "Rock Shock Chickenhawk". Do you really not see that as evidence of the attitude I'm talking about? What does KU have to do with WSU's NIT title? Honestly.

I don't know or care about the dynamics of why KU didn't schedule games against Wichita State in the 90s. Frankly, it's irrelevant to the topic of my post, unless you are giving me a glimpse into WHY so many WSU fans feel the vitriol towards KU that they do. Some sort of hurt feelings over the impression of being ignored maybe?

I also don't really understand your extra comments about KU playing ESU and FHSU in the 90s. All big-time programs play smaller schools in early season warmup games, and KU decided that they could at least funnel some extra money back other Kansas schools if they made sure these early-season warmups were against local opponents. But just so we're clear, WSU is a cut above both of those schools, who I thought weren't even Division I.

Is it in KU's favor to schedule WSU? Sure, I suppose. Again, beside the point of my post. I have no problem with KU playing a home and home against another in-state school. I don't know how it's anymore favorable than scheduling any team from the MVC, but there is the interest factor of it being two Kansas-based schools, so that's something. If the Shockers won, so be it. Kansas doesn't go undefeated every year, and the Shockers have a pretty nice program, from what I can tell. My issue is with their fans.

No, I don't care to argue that the gap between "Major" and "Mid-Major" schools basketball programs is smaller than ever. I'd say that's probably a true statement. Again, a comment that seems out of place and argumentative.

Lastly, I was probably out of line in my snarky comment about splicing KSU and MU fans together--it was intended as tongue-in-cheek. You seem to have taken great offense to that and as a result, most of your response has been littered with devices meant to illustrate my "self-absorbed" attitude. Your attempted coup de grace was the rant about me drinking wine with my pinky in the air, again trying to assign to me an air of superiority that I don't believe I've actually displayed.

hailtoku 3 years, 7 months ago

Zenger is the man.

I would gladly play WSU before March.

jayhawkinATL 3 years, 7 months ago

Damn city college has a chip on its shouldler...LMAO

John Randall 3 years, 7 months ago

You don't suppose that is why the school is named Wichita STATE U ?

I'm so proud that none of the Jayhawk faithful stoop to denigrating, gratuitous comments.

mirsinairee 3 years, 7 months ago

Just remember, that "city college" comes from a conference that has knocked out your beloved jayhawks 3 times out of the NCAA tourney. Truth hurts.

SelbyInc 3 years, 7 months ago

I hope we play WSU.... i was happy for them when the won the JV tournament in NY.... and i watched the celebration for the JV tournament on TV..... it was good until they started talkin about chickenhawks...... to clear things up.....you won the NIT...... thats kind of like kissing your stepsister (a good looking one) you enjoy it, but at the sametime you dont feel that great about it.... If Ku plays wsu they will dominate them in every area..... shocker fans need to come back to reality and realize that...... ya, you played VCU close, and probly should have beat them. Yes, VCU beat us.... did they hit 9 three's in the 20minutes on you? no. did we shoot 11% yes.... does that sometimes happen yes.... do i hope Ku plays wichita and puts them in their place? absolutely.

thedudelovesKU 3 years, 7 months ago

Let's not forget the VCU vs. Shocker game was in Wichita. I'm certain if VCU had to play us in the Fieldhouse in the regular season the result would have been drastically different.

Pam McCormick 3 years, 7 months ago

The WSU VCU game was at VCU not in wichita

Jason Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

No, it was in Wichita. I went to it, was a great game. WSU should have won, but there was a couple bad calls at the end of the game.

mirsinairee 3 years, 7 months ago

The result would have been drastically different? Perhaps, perhaps not. All I know is that you would think the game would mean more to KU when they are playing in the NCAA tourney instead of just a regular season game at Allen Field House right? Maybe I am wrong, no, I am not.

Cegorach 3 years, 7 months ago

All... I... see... is... assumption... after... assumption... and... excuse... after... excuse...

Must be the real Selby leaving that message as it hurts my eyes to read that garbage, not to mention the .... pauses....

WSU is gaining much respect, and growing a strong program. The term 'mid-major' should be erased from everyones vocabulary. When a school such as Butler makes back-to-back national championship games, then it is safe to say the gap between the supposed 'elite' and the 'blue collar' is closing. Which is for the best IMO.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Built off the backs of Who..... Ex Kansas Alums, Like Turgeon ?

Sam Constance 3 years, 7 months ago

"The term 'mid-major' should be erased from everyones vocabulary"


No, it shouldn't. Get the chip off your shoulder Cegorach.

The term "mid-major" is meant to imply a different level of funding and resources, it's not any kind of blanket statement about the basketball worthiness of those teams.

The gap is narrowing, but it will never close so long as schools like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, Ohio State, UCLA, etc, etc... have ENORMOUS basketball (and athletic) budgets.

That is not to say teams like WSU, Butler, etc.. can't be consistently good and win, it's just an easy way to differentiate between schools level of resource investment.

dylans 3 years, 7 months ago

What's the NIT stand for anyway? Not Important Tournament? Not Invited Tournament? Well, something along those lines I'm sure.

brad53 3 years, 7 months ago

I agree, WSU fans got too remember even though they did win the NIT that still only makes them the 69th best team in the nation.

Troll_or_AntiTroll 3 years, 7 months ago

Mr. Marshall needs to learn his place. We are, after all, the State's "flagship" university (sorry, K-State). All those who speak ill of us (even though it be the truth) are but trolls.

HawkKlaw 3 years, 7 months ago

The one thing I dislike about KU fans is our superiority complex. It makes us look like egotistical dbags. Just sayin'.

Troll_or_AntiTroll 3 years, 7 months ago

I do not dispute that KU fans are egotistical dbags.

SeniorMoment 3 years, 7 months ago

I am a huge Jayhawk fan--couple of kids who graduated from here. That said: KU is regrettably cautious about playing a quality program, especially one from in-state. There is a great upside to this matchup--fan interest, a "neutral facility" in Wichita's Intrust Arena for the home & home arrangement, strength of schedule benefit from a preseason game, etc. And maybe we would be better prepared to play VCU, eh? Don't scold, Mr. Zenger: SCHEDULE it and answer on the court.

drnater 3 years, 7 months ago

Im not sure what you clarify as a "quality program." However, we are scheduled to play in the Champions Classic this next year with the likes of Duke, Kentucky, and Michigan St. This year we played Arizona, Memphis, Colorado State, USC, and Michigan. (All of whom made the NCAA Tourney) The year before that we played Temple and Tennessee when they were both in the top 20. Thats plenty of "quality program's" in my book that we've played in the pre-season. No need to schedule to many challenges when the Big 12 season will provide the most competition of the year.

championhawks 3 years, 7 months ago

Arizona, Memphis, Michigan, Tennessee, Temple, UCLA, Syracuse, Michigan St., USC, Florida, Kentucky... These are all programs that KU has played since 2005, most of them they have played in multiple years. While they do load up on cupcakes, I wouldn't say that they are cautious about playing quality programs.

omng392 3 years, 7 months ago

Check the final RPI and SOS, I think you'll find KU in the Top 5 year in and year out. In 2008, I believe we played the number 1 RPI and SOS. What more can we do?

Heck, I live in Omaha and sure I would love to see KU play Creighton, but just like WSU there's no incentive. Does the rest of the nation want to watch KU play WSU or Creighton, nope... Does the nation want to watch KU play KY, UC, Duke, or some other over rated east coast team, yep... Also, how many players are we going to get from Witchita? One, maybe two every couple of years.. How many will we get from the East and West coast... Again no incentive...

Mel Clare 3 years, 7 months ago

Cautious about playing a quality program? Our schedule this past year included USC, UCLA, Arizona, Memphis, Cal, Michigan and are all quality programs. I am a Hawk fan through and through, but this schedule of the game has to come from both sides.......and for a number of years it was VERY one sided in the Hawks favor.............on that note, I think it would be great for the state and for recruiting for both schools.......

MrDrBr43 3 years, 7 months ago

The only reason this comment was made by Gregg Marshall is because of the stupid-@$$ term "mid-major." He made a comment about the ignorance of that term, then asked the crowd, "How mid-major do you think Washington State, Virginia Tech, Alabama think our players are?" After he said this, he saw a Chickenhawks sign (extremely ignorant). Never once did he call out KU, slam the university. He was simply reacting to a sign in the crowd. If that sign hadn't been there, front and center, no comments about KU would have been made. But I'll ask, how mid-major do you think VCU's players were?

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

lost 5 of 8 heading into the tourney..... Got hot when it mattered..... I would say that's the best description of a mid-major team ( most who lose 5 of their last 8 don't get that chance )... A team that lacks the guns to consistantly drill there competition but if given an inch they will take 5 miles. Yeah< that's sounds about like VCU and jsut about any other "mid-major"

dnvrhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Just because he saw the sign, doesn't mean that he needed to respond or comment about it. It shows a lack of tact and maturity on his part.

jhkfan 3 years, 7 months ago

Check out the clip on YouTube (put in "welcome home nit champions") & you can see him say chicken hawks. He clearly wasn't responding to a sign, give me a break. Very unclassy for a coach to say this stuff.

I live in Wichita & cheer for WSU & KU. I have seen the k-who references. Just have a chip on their shoulders. For them to say KU is afraid to play them is ridiculous. It's all about money.

KGphoto 3 years, 7 months ago

Quote of the year.

Get after it Zenger! I Love it!

Aligned 3 years, 7 months ago

Quote of the year? He was just throwing the audience a bone for crying out loud.

blackhawkjayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Kudos, first, to the AD. Marshall must be a tool. Now....can anyone explain to me any benefit to KU for playing the Woo Shocks? Other than some form of misplaced guilt, how does it benefit our program? It's a no win all lose situation. Keegan was wrong, it won't help us win the NC, it just puts us in a bad position.

The KU AD's job is to take care of KU. Everything else is secondary.

mirsinairee 3 years, 7 months ago

it is true that the athletic directors job is to take care of KU. Obviously, this AD has very very small shoes to fill. If this AD does not have a mulitmillion dollar ticket scandal, then hey, better AD than your previous one. Great improvement.

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 7 months ago

When you argue with an idiot it's hard for people to tell who's who. Just ignore wsu and let them drive themselves crazy. The best answer SZ could of given was "no comment" don't stoop to their level.

Ian Legler 3 years, 7 months ago

Personally I like having an AD who can bring that kind of swagger.

phoggydrive 3 years, 7 months ago

We already have yearly home & home series with an in-state mid-major on the schedule. Why play another?

drewdun 3 years, 7 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Ed Brown 3 years, 7 months ago

Don't forget the last time WSU won against KU. The real plus is the money stays in the state of Kansas when they play just like with Washburn, Fort Hays State, etc. WSU has had some great players in the NBA, too, and KU has had some great players from the city of Wichita. Lafayette Norwood, the coach for Wichita Heights turned out some great players like Darnell Valentine and Antoine Carr before he was an assistant for Ted Owens in 1977. I say BRING IT ON!

Steve Gantz 3 years, 7 months ago

So what if he called us Chickenhawks? Are we that insecure?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but Marshall didn't refer to WSU as the states' flagship university, it was Zenger who used that term.

Matthew Fowler 3 years, 7 months ago

"Home and home" ' s are all about money and right now, there is no financial upside to KU hosting one. There would be for WSU, but not for us.

HawkKlaw 3 years, 7 months ago

Why does it matter if he called KU "chickenhawks"? Lol. Shouldn't that make KU want to play WSU even more? It makes KU sound like a bunch of, dare I say, "chickens" if we're afraid to play a team coached by someone that called us "chickenhawks." "Chickenhawks" isn't even that bad of an insult! Let's grow up and get down to business here. KU needs to play teams like WSU early in the season (as opposeed to Washburn, FHSU, Emporia State, etc), and WSU wants the chance to bring down a powerhouse like KU. Let the games begin.

RockChalkGuy 3 years, 7 months ago

WSU won the NIT? Huh. I never would have know, if it weren't for this article.

Andy Tweedy 3 years, 7 months ago

There are too many people on here worried about grammar. Stay strong!!!

Ludwig Supraphonic 3 years, 7 months ago

Welcome Shocker fans! It's great to be part of a relevant program where other fans flock to our websites.

BewareOfThePhogOnTheWater 3 years, 7 months ago

Sheahon Zenger is the best! What a polar opposite of Lew. We sure imnproved our Athletic Department when we got rid of Lew and hired Sheahon.

mirsinairee 3 years, 7 months ago

It does not take much to improve over your previous AD. Like I posted earlier, if the present AD does not have a multimillion dollar ticket scandal, then they are a much better hire than Perkins was.

monarchs20 3 years, 7 months ago

Something needs to be clarified. WSU is being referred to as a quality mid-major program. KU regularly plays quality mid-major teams like Memphis, Belmont, Oakland, Temple, Colorado State etc. Teams that make the tournament a lot more frequently than WSU who has only made it once in the last twenty plus years. WSU is not a quality mid-major program and certainly not one that should be dictating top tier programs come to their place.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Butler isn't even that Arrogant, and they have a top tier coach.

Why Not Schedule Butler, Marshall ?

76ku 3 years, 7 months ago

There just isn't a down side to KU playing the Shockers, home and away, each year. The Intrust facility is first class. Keep our revenue in Kansas instead of the Sprint Center in Urban Blight, MO. We should also play another mid-major each year, starting with VCU, Bucknell, Bradley, N. Iowa...home and away. If we lose, we still win. Losses don't hurt early and Mr. Self could learn how to beat these teams. It is obviously his Achille's heel. Roy wouldn't play WSU. He said either way, we lose. Simply not true. Tons of fun and a real money-maker. Let's do it!

kltbadboyz 3 years, 7 months ago

+1 I don't think SZ should of even made any comments about Marshall, especially not knowing the whole story. You can't go by what someone tells you on an email without doing some research .Alot of KU fans do attend WSU. I don't know why every one else should follow ole Roy's tactics. The guy didn't even recruit the east coast for Christ sake! Coach Self please schedule WSU, do it for the fans of Kansas. Show the KU haters that we aren't a bunch of pompas d bads that alot of people think we are.

kltbadboyz 3 years, 7 months ago

+1 I don't think SZ should of even made any comments about Marshall, especially not knowing the whole story. You can't go by what someone tells you on an email without doing some research .Alot of KU fans do attend WSU. I don't know why every one else should follow ole Roy's tactics. The guy didn't even recruit the east coast for Christ sake! Coach Self please schedule WSU, do it for the fans of Kansas. Show the KU haters that we aren't a bunch of pompas d bads that alot of people think we are.

kerbyd 3 years, 7 months ago

Playing Emporia State, Washburn or Fort Hays has nothing to do with our schedule. They don't even count as games because they are merely exhibition games. It's like saying we shouldn't schedule Late Night.

Viggo3003 3 years, 7 months ago

If poor Sharon Zenger is worried about a little WSU banter then I have to say I lost a little respect for her.

BewareOfThePhogOnTheWater 3 years, 7 months ago

It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!

kgraham648 3 years, 7 months ago

"But Zenger said an email that someone had sent him — which said Wichita State coach Gregg Marshall had called KU “chickenhawks"

He received an email that said someone said Marshall said this. So he didn't hear it himself, but someone else told him he said that. He said, she said... I'd agree with MrDrBr43's post, if he did say it, he was probably responding to something in the crowd. Marshall isn't a tool.

Maybe if they played a team like Wichita State every year, they'd quit getting bounced by MO Valley team's in the Tourney.... Bradley, N. Iowa...

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Bradley was 5 years ago with a 7 foot center who could shoot threes.......

Northern Iowa certainly was recent enough but how did they finish this year....

Right. Flukes, one in a while happenstances that surround otherwise respectable triumphs. Unfortunately, The best team does not win every time..... no one would watch a tourney that routinely shows the same teams over and over and over again.

Couple years back we also lost to MIchigan State, shouldn't we be scheduling just major conference teams because they beat us ?

westernkshawk 3 years, 7 months ago

I thought the way the Wichita State coach acted following their NIT championship (and the way he talked about other teams) was totally unprofessional. Makes it look like he is unaccustomed to success and let it go to his head. After all, ALL NIT teams were teams that didn't make the NCAA tournament so, while they played well in the NIT, it doesn't make him any kind of a basketball guru or his team anthing out of this world. He needs to keep things in perspective before he makes an ass of himself more than he already has!!

Aligned 3 years, 7 months ago

I’d say he has things in perspective; he’s a good coach, coaching a good team.

westernkshawk 3 years, 7 months ago

He may be a good enough coach and his team IS improving but I don't know how to put it any plainer than he just doesn't have much CLASS! I'm not talking about his comments about the Jayhawks, I'm talking about his comments the day after their NIT championship when he made classless remarks about the other teams. I thought at the time, this guy lacks humility and he just doesn't know how to win with class! Guess Jayhawks are just too spoiled; not everyone can have a HCBS!!

Jacobpaul81 3 years, 7 months ago

Forum Logic 101:

So you're a valley team and you know your only chance to make the NCAA is to win your conference tourney. The reasoning behind it is stupid (3 teams from the Valley should have been in), but you know that reasoning is in place going into your tourney.

Leading up to the tourney, you blow games to VCU and Missouri State.

Entering the tourney, you draw and beat Bradley. Big whoop. They are last in the MVC... but you get all proud...and you show up against Indiana State and let a bunch of boys from Rockville and Terre Haute whoop up on you. They go on to beat Missouri State and steal the NCAA tourney spot from you.

So now you're stuck in the NIT... and you win it... as you damn well should. You should have won the valley and lost in the First round of the NCAA tourney... but instead you lost to VCU, MSU and let Jake Odom rip you a new one.

Then you show up on Kansas forums, crying about wanting a series between teams because your program is improving so-much.

If anything, KU should be scheduling Indiana State.

namder 3 years, 7 months ago

WSU has little man's disease!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Viggo3003 3 years, 7 months ago

Yea I see a lot of that on this thread also.

jhox 3 years, 7 months ago

I would have been all for playing them, until their coach mouthed off like that. Now I say forget them. They need a game with us much more than we need one with them.

Love our AD making that comment. Sounds like we're on exactly the same page. I didn't like WSU back when they were paying players under Smithson, and I don't like them now. I had started to soften when Turg was there, but no more.

Eff em.

GoShox 3 years, 7 months ago

Enjoy the USC game in Wichita, should be a real barn burner as USC was a play-in game this year. Oh wait! VCU beat them in said play-in game!

jhox 3 years, 7 months ago

At least USC wouldn't put up a billboard with the score if they beat us once every 20 years.

There is no upside to playing you guys, so why do it? If we win 19 out of 20 (which we would), the one year we have a down year you'll beat us and throw the biggest party in history, and buy another billboard add.

Your coach is classless (making the comment he made) and your fans have a track record of being classless (paying players and putting up billboards under Smithson.)

rockpile23 3 years, 7 months ago

So why would it be good to play a team in Wichita that didn't make the tournament at all?

Torisen 3 years, 7 months ago

Reminds me of a scene from "First & Ten", an old HBO football comedy series... From what I recall You had two of the linemen (call em "Tank" and "Rock") in pads in the locker room having an argument:

Tank: "Is not!" (pushes Rock) Rock: "Is so!" (pushes Tank) Tank: "Is not!" (pushes Rock) Rock: "Is so!" (pushes Tank) Coach walks by, says: "What's the problem here?" Tank: "Tell him! Wichita is not a state!" Rock: "Coach, I went to WICHITA STATE UNIVERSITY!" Coach: "Rock is right, boys." (walks away)

ohmixmaster 3 years, 7 months ago

+100 I remember that show (and episode) like it was yesterday (man I'm old.....lol). Yes, there was a time when Delta Burke was actually thin and quite a hottie. Jason Beghe (sp) was the QB, and hasn't aged a day in 30 years. Thanks for the quote.

GoShox 3 years, 7 months ago

I am still offended that your previous coach, that guy who won the title at North Carolina, said he wouldn't "play a charity game" when asked why KU didn't play WSU. Evidently Washburn is not a "charity game."

On another note KU Fans, how did you like the Northern Iowa and Bradley apples in the "big dance"? Luckily you squeeked by Southern Illinois otherwise you would have a goose egg up on the Mo Valley in the win column for the last decade.

waywardJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Even that SIU team ( coached by Matt Painter at the time ) was not comparable to our previous losses to Valley teams.... That SIU team was an angry pitbull. NOt much pretty about them, and I think the reason we lost to UCLA the next game. No offense to speak of but they certainly would get after you as much as possible. Never before/ never Since have a seen a team that scrappy and defensively efficient.

End Result, we beat that Valley team, even if that Valley team exhausted us in advance of UCLA.....

GoShox 3 years, 7 months ago

WSU beat Bradley, SIU and Northern Iowa in the respective years they went on to beat (or play tight in the case of SIU) KU.

Just sayin'

Sam Constance 3 years, 7 months ago

Just sayin' what?

Are we really going to play the transitive game?

Eride 3 years, 7 months ago

You are missing the point. It isn't that KU wouldn't play WSU no matter what. It is the fact that KU won't schedule a series that involves playing at WSU. There is zero incentive to do so, and don't get this wrong, because KU might lose isn't part of it.

WSU isn't a good team, WSU isn't a good program. There are much better mid-major programs that KU schedules every year. The reason why KU won't go play at a mid-major like WSU is because there is no financial incentive/recruiting incentive/fan incentive/media incentive/etc. If WSU wants to come to the Phog and get destroyed like Washburn does they would most likely be welcome to it.

KU isn't going to go play a game at a crappy mid-major's home arena for little to no money, no media attention, no recruiting attention, etc.

WSU fans need to wake up and realize what their program is... Not. Relevant.

GoShox 3 years, 7 months ago

What "mid major" programs has KU played in the elective non-conference schedule in the last 5 years?

OldOldHawk 3 years, 7 months ago

These GoShox posts are funny. Remind me of the Chihuahua next door that just barks like hell at any dog that has already gone by.

WuHawk2 3 years, 7 months ago

@Eride - The ignorance in your post smells funny.

BigAl 3 years, 7 months ago

Just to keep things a little in perspective, when KU plays Washburn, Emporia State and Hays.... they are exhibition games. They DO NOT COUNT. I don't know why some people don't understand this.

I also remember way back when WSU did beat KU. WSU sold tv rights all over Western Kansas, pre-empting Monday Night Football (I think) and refusing to share any revenue with KU. Then they put up billboards all around with the score. They were doing their very best to humiliate KU.

Maybe some of you old-timers will remember that better than I do but either way, KU simply doesn't need WSU.

Larry Smith 3 years, 7 months ago

Big Al, You bring up a great point. I think I remember the reason KU took WSU off of the schedule. As anyone who lives in Kansas knows, every KU basketball game is televised on some channel. If not a national broadcast, then a local one. The last time KU played WSU in Wichita, even though it should have been a free local channel game, WSU made it a PPV game and took all of the money from the broadcast. Roy took exception to that and made a statement to the effect of " if you want to make money and build your program, that is fine. You just don't do it by denying Jahawk fans the right to see their team play and making them pay for something that should have been free." He then said it was a low class move and he would never have WSU on the schedule again. And true to his word, it has remained that way. BTW KU is 12-2 all time against WSU and don't really think they are afraid of them at all.

The other thing that bothers me about the so called issue of a home and home series that WSU often wants to bring up is this. A couple of years back, they played a game at Syracuse with no return game scheduled. If getting a home and home is so important, then why take that game? I am sure that if they offer that same deal to KU, we would take it.

tauck 3 years, 7 months ago

HEY WSU Come talk to us when you get into the Sweet Sixteen, the Elite-Eight, the Final Four or god forbid you play in a National Championship game. Once that is done maybe you can talk. Until then...STFU!!!! Just for good measure, how about winning just 1 National Championship and then we will talk. Never forget that the NIT tournament is short for NITWIT.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 7 months ago

They didn't even make the tournament this past year and they are talking like they are champions....I love your comment.

hawkbono1313 3 years, 7 months ago

Shockers blow. Missouri Vally is overrated. Don't waste your time

GoShox 3 years, 7 months ago

This "no incentive" and financial argument make absolutely no sense. If KU played WSU at Intrust Bank Arena it would be the biggest and most profitable college basketball game ever played in Kansas. It would be on national TV, it would be sold out with KU ticket employees scalping tickets on stubhub (oh maybe not...), the arena could sell beer, suites are available, etc. If there is truly no incentive then why is KU playing anyone in Wichita? That is nothing but an excuse. A pathetic excuse at that.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 7 months ago

I'm pretty sure that KU has played Texas, Kansas State, and Missouri all in Kansas this past year, and all of those would be "bigger" and more profitable games played in Kansas. I would even go as far to say that the Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Nebraska, and Colorado games were played in Kansas and were more profitable and bigger than that game would be.

If you meant profitable in Wichita or biggest game played in Wichita....who cares?

By the way the KU-USC game in Wichita will be bigger than a KU-WSU game in Wichita.

WuHawk2 3 years, 7 months ago

"By the way the KU-USC game in Wichita will be bigger than a KU-WSU game in Wichita."

That doesn't even make sense. Care to enlighten us on how you arrived at this conclusion?

bbhawk234 3 years, 7 months ago

Sorry but KU can make more money playing a bigger name program than WSU. Apparently selling beer is going to bring millions. Give me a break. Bring on the top seeds in the Big East, SEC, Pac, Big 10 before I really care about playing WSU and trust me other than people the people in the state of kansas primarily WSU fans no one really cares about this matchup.

Eric Baker 3 years, 7 months ago

GoShox: Don't kid yourself. Look, I'm from Wichita, I'm a big Shox fan, I'm even transferring to WSU next semester. But a KU-WSU early season non-conference game would absolutely not be more popular than the two heated conference games KU and KSU play every season. Not to say it wouldn't be very popular, but don't exaggerate.

As for KU already playing a game at Intrust, from what I understand, USC actually offered to play their home game of our home-and-home series with them at Intrust. So, of course KU is going to take a game played in Kansas, even at a smaller venue than Allen Fieldhouse, over one played in another state entirely. We'll see if we keep playing games there, I imagine this is being used as a sort of test game.

I'd love to see KU and WSU play a game against each other every season, but the fact is WSU gets much more out of it than KU, in terms of both money and exposure. The Shockers need it a lot more than the Jayhawks

David Hodges 3 years, 7 months ago

Sort of off topic but it relates in a humorous way... At work today I noticed a kid wearing a K-State Shirt that read as follows--"84-68 St. Valentines Day Massacre". I literally laughed out loud... they have so little to celebrate about their basketball program that they choose to make t-shirts that celebrate winning one regular season conference game against KU. I guess they are just tired of all their t-shirts not having any major accomplishments to celebrate. KU makes shirts for being Big 12 Champs, going to the Final Four, and National Championship wins. For that other Kansas program, the one that doesn't win much, beating KU once (and only the second time they have ever beaten KU in the Hawktogon of Doom, KU won the first 19 games in Bramlage) is apparently all they have to offer to the screen-printers. Even though its true purpose was assuredly to gloat; for me, I see it as the ultimate form of flattery--Beating KU is like winning the National Championship! So thanks K-State fans! Thanks for inadvertently celebrating KU's premier basketball tradition by memorializing one game. KU does it too... our shirts just celebrate winning our conference year after year, numerous trips to the Final Four, and our historic National Championship wins.

ICT_KCMO 3 years, 7 months ago

Internet rumors and speculation crack me up. I attended the event at Koch Arena with my wife who is a WSU grad. I sat at center court three rows up. Yes, there were a couple of guys who thought they would be clever and brought signs that read 'Chickenhawks'. Gregg Marshall did not say or refer to KU as 'chickenhawks' - the guy was standing 15 feet away from me. There was some person in the court tunnel who yelled out 'Chickenhawks' while GM was speaking. This brought a few chuckles, GM paused and shrugged his shoulders then continued on with his speech.

GM did say, "does Alabama wish they had a few of our players?" I live in Wichita and evidently this spawned from pre-game comments by some Alabama players who were talking trash about how WSU did have the talent to compete with a BCS program like them.

I support KU first and foremost and I like WSU because my wife has turned me on to them, besides they represent our state so I will support any program from Kansas above all others. However, I hate to see internet rumors falsely tarnish someone's reputation when in fact that person did not commit the alleged 'crime'. If you think he said it, stop, he didn't, I was there and this is from a KU fan who was in attendance surrounded by rabid WSU fans. Uncomfortable yes, but I have to tell it like it was.

justajoe 3 years, 7 months ago

Sorry, ICT_KCMO but you're wrong. He did say it. I wasn't there, but I happened to be in the Wichita area the evening of the post-NIT rally, watching a live broadcast on television, and I clearly heard him say "chickenhawks." I wasn't watching the screen at that moment, but I heard him say it. There was a long pause, and the crowd's roar of approval grew during this pause. I'm telling you, he said it. If he didn't, why doesn't the assistant WSU AD quoted in this article say he didn't say it. I HEARD IT, LIVE. HE SAID IT.

That being said, I agree with everything else you posted above. I think this whole thing about chickenhawks is a pig in a poke, an excuse on KU's part to find yet another way to avoid playing WSU out of fear that they'd lose. I'm a KU fan, but I despise the school's arrogance and condescension regarding WSU. Play the games already.

jhkfan 3 years, 7 months ago

Watch it on YouTube ("Welcome Home: 2011 NIT Champions). He DOES say it. Marshall is a tool, a very arrogant tool. Does not show class to call other teams names in public. Go Sheahon!

actorman 3 years, 7 months ago

Thanks for the update, ICT. It's always better to get an eyewitness account. A shame that our AD didn't try to do that before spouting off based on an email. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate his passion. But he should really know his facts before saying something. (This is assuming, of course, that ICT's account is accurate.)

All that being said, a home and home would still not be in KU's best interests, although perhaps they could consider a 2-for-1 deal.

bbhawk234 3 years, 7 months ago

The hell with Wichita State. Who even cares is we play them or not. Seems to mean much more to them than to us. If they want to disrespect us then no waywe should even letting them in the fieldhouse. For god sakes we are taking about WSU they are naval lint to us and KSU for that matter.

ICT_KCMO 3 years, 7 months ago

To be fair, then why do we feel the need to play them at their best sport - baseball? It's no secret their tradition in baseball is far superior to ours but they can't hold a candle to us in basketball. It's apples and oranges, but they could easily say no to us in baseball but they don't. Yes, I know it is baseball and in the grand scheme of college athletics it ranks number 3 in athletic funding and attendance in men's sports but it is still number 3.

If WSU didn't matter, then why does Hoglund Park all-time attendance records have WSU in it. What I am saying is, their baseball program takes the high road and schedules us and K-State when they don't have to. When KU plays at their place and when they come to ours, attendance is up and the fans like to see the two match up. Would a KU and WSU basketball match-up be great for college basketball fans in the state of Kansas? It sure would.

I tell you what, I would rather play WSU than seeing the likes of Longwood or Sister Mary's College for the Blind at the Phog. WSU is not exactly an RPI killer like some of the cupcakes we play. No doubt we would win, and a win over a solid mid-major with a decent RPI at the same time being more entertaining to watch than Winston-Salem State sounds good to me.

Besides, a few WSU fans who make a 'Chickenhawk' sign is not even a little gnat you want to swat away. I've heard far worse from Mizzou and KSU fans. If we get all bent over a little sign, then some KU fans have issues. And I know we all know that Mizzou fans are the worst.

bbhawk234 3 years, 7 months ago

It is more than a sign...it is the fact that their coach acknowleged such sign. When the head coach uses it as a punch line enough already. I would rather have matchups with some SEC teams or Big East teams which we seem to not play very often. WSU is a waste of our time. Schedule Big East or SEC and the TV revenue would be larger than WSU.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 7 months ago

If you sell out, you don't need a gimmick (in-state rival) to do better. College Baseball always struggles to sell out, so any type of additional attendance ploys help each team. KU doesn't have a problem selling out AFH, therefore that same analysis doesn't apply. If the Shockers sold out every Baseball game, they wouldn't need KU for the in-state rivalry.

Also, I wonder how much the Baseball team provides in overall value to Men's sporting events. I would venture to guess that without KU Basketball and KU Football, these other sports wouldn't even be in existence.

Viggo3003 3 years, 7 months ago

I think all you chest bumpers are missing the bigger picture as you want to high five your AD. The great AD's work in the background working to help the coaches get the glory and fame. This is what makes them great. When you get an AD that is into self promotion (e.g. Al Bohl) you inevitably will lose great coaches as you get into battles of egos.

Regardless of what you think about Wichita State if Zenger continues to want his name in lights this will cause problems.

Now add to the fact that I have had conversations today with 4 people in Wichita who were at the pep rally at Koch Arena in Wichita and all of them back up the statements of ICT_KCMO above.

The best thing we could ever hear about Zenger over the next three years is nothing.....or if we do it will probably be about him having to hire new coaches. Hopefully not a men's bball coach.

John Sheehan 3 years, 7 months ago

Congrats on winning the NIT Title - I think that's cool!

And I personally would love to play you every year. But we don't have to. It benefits you more than us. There's a reason for that. So don't get cocky and act like KSU. Shocker fans are better than that, just like KSU fans are better than Mizzou.

BTW - Once Marshall wins a game or 2 in the NCAA, don't be surprised if he bails. Hate to say it, you're not a destination program yet. I hope you'll become one.

But getting overly excited about the NIT and delusional about beating big brother makes you look small time...hell - Jacob Pullen motivated his entire team and turned their season around by saying there was no way he would even play in the NIT. That's how you act the part. Don't be satisfied with basically being the 69th best team.

Rock Chalk and MTXE!

Mike Kendall 3 years, 7 months ago

I live in the Wichita area, too, just like a lot of other Jayhawk fans. I saw the Gregg Marshall reference of "chickenhawks" at the televised party in Koch Arena. I kind of had a feeling that something was going to be mentioned because of the Shockers success in the NIT. I, personally, wasn't too offended, because like someone pointed out above, Mizzou is the worst when it comes to signs and baiting coaches and players. If there is a game or games to be played between KU and Wichita State in the future, the contests will be fierce. Some of feelings of Shocker fans feel like that the Jayhawks are the big bully. I don't think that is the case. Like another poster mentioned above, I was rooting the Shockers on to win it all in the NIT. I am a fan of Gregg Marshall because I believe he is a really good coach. I would hope that there would be some Shocker fans that root the Jayhawks on in a Post-Season Tournament. However, I don't think there are too many of those fans around. I don't think HCBS will say yes to this at all, and, it all kind of starts with him. Sorry, Shockers----it is not going to happen----get over it!!!!!

Martin Rosenblum 3 years, 7 months ago

When was the last time KU played in the NIT?

And, why have we not played in the NIT?

How many teams does the NCAA tournament have to expand by in order for WSU to bid farewell to the NIT?

Winning the NIT is nowhere as impressive as winning the B12 championship.

justajoe 3 years, 7 months ago

For the record, I'm a KU grad and fan. Having said that...

My impression of our new AD is not a favorable one, based on his ridiculous and childish statements quoted in this article. I kept waiting to come to the line where he'd reveal that he was really just joking. He sounds rather immature, as in I'm taking my ball and going home, crying to my mommy, because little Greggy called us chickenhawks. Boo Hoo. Please dry my tears and give me a hug and some chocky puddin, pwetty pwease!!

Speaking of our childhoods, I recall that when someone wouldn't play someone else in a game, and for no good reason, that kid was inevitably labelled a chicken. What's the difference here?

I can recall Roy Williams taking an occasional shot at KSU when he was here, but somehow all these posters who are so offended by Marshall's repetition of an excited fan's use of the word chickenhawk didn't seem to have a complaint when ole Roy was dishing it out. What a bunch of hypocrites. It's a game, people.

And how silly is it for an AD to play the "flagship institution" card when speaking of athletics. Give me a break. Alabama and Tennessee are flagship institutions too, and what do you think of the way they conduct their athletic programs?. And isn't it just a bit ironic that Zenger's comments appear on the same day where we read that yet another of his "student-athlete," flagship institution representatives is in trouble with the law. How many is that so far this year? Please forgive me, I've simply lost count. I don't seem to read about such problems at WSU, and we're not even addressing the arrogant felons who recently populated our athletic department. Maybe if we started hanging around the Wichita State athletic program a little, some of their habits would rub off on us and start mending that black eye we insist on showing the nation.

And perhaps if our head coach wasn't afraid to schedule the WSU's of the world he wouldn't have such an embarrassing and recurring mid-major problem come tournament time. So, how many Missouri Valley teams does it take to knock you out of the tournaments in the early rounds for you to finally get the clue that playing these teams makes you better when it counts?

For goodness sake Zenger (and Self), grow up, grow a pair and schedule the games already. What have you got to lose? Oh, sorry about that, that fear of losing is exactly the point, isn't it.

Chris Bruning 3 years, 7 months ago

so will WSU hang a banner for placing 69th this year??? i believe they received votes for preseason top 25 last november. Wichita State CHOKERS is more like it.......

Pwnage 3 years, 7 months ago

Classic comment from the supremely arrogant institution that is Kan$a$ Univer$ity.

A corrupt athletic department, a basketball program that can't stay out of jail, and a fan base where 90 percent have never even been to Lawrence.

Go Kan$a$ Yankee$!

Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

Lots of "missing the point" here.

WSU is 2 1/2 - 3 hours down the road. They are D-1. They have a good program. And we duck them. They are not below us. One might argue Bradley, Bucknell, UNI, or VCU are below us. One might not. One might consider that the same "look down your nose" approach of some on this message board might be the same approach our players have fallen prey to in the tournament. One might not. One might argue that having your team prepare and play a quality "mid-major" a couple times a season, maybe even in a hostile environment, might perhaps permit your players to understand the mental approach to such a game in the tournament. One might not. One might argue that a potential loss to a mid-major in the regular season, or loss of a bit of gate revenue, might be worth the potential upside in the development of your team. One might not.

It serves us no purpose to insult WSU .. meaning KU fans.. Does that really make a KU fan feel better? After all, that's what it is all about, right? They know their program is not the same type of program as ours. And we don't need to pound our chests about it, and insult WSU. Though as we see on the basketball court, chest-pounding and screaming at an opponent, and the drawing of attention to the selfish individual player is a regular occurrence ... perhaps just an unfortunate shift in our culture. But we need not be drawn in.

Zenger gets upset about a "chickenhawk" comment, and who cares about the context ... be secure in your crimson and blue. It is embarrassing that our AD would respond to that, or that he would even take offense (again, regardless of context). Really, very embarrassing that he would even bring it up.

My preference would be a quiet confidence, and a response that might include -- any place, any time. Of course, a nice home and home would do just fine.

Eric Baker 3 years, 7 months ago

Blah blah blah, KU pride, I get it. And I agree, I really do. But maybe you've missed all the explanations about why KU doesn't want to do a home and home with WSU, because when we play away from Allen, we lose lots of money unless it's at another high major and is nationally televised. Now maybe we could strike some sort of deal with a WSU game in Koch, but I'm sure CBS and ABC and all of them would just conclude that there aren't enough Shockers fans nationally to pick up that game over the countless other high profile matchups.they could choose from. If I recall correctly, the smallest school we've played at in recent years has been Temple, but Temple is usually somewhere in the top 25 every year and, more importantly, in a huge east coast media market.

So the issue is really a business one, it has nothing to do with the game, honestly. KU doesn't want to lose huge sums of money (which is pretty important, despite what some people who spell Kansas with dollar signs would have us belief-- yes, the KU basketball program is extremely profitable, but the vast majority of our OTHER athletics programs aren't profitable at all, and their scholarships, facilities, and expense budgets depend on the surplus from the basketball program). And WSU doesn't want to miss out on a chance at some huge national exposure, and rightfully so. It has nothing to do with the game.

Just a thought, though, under Turgeon WSU would play one off games at high major teams like LSU and Syracuse. Why is it so bad to do that with KU?

Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

I didn't miss the explanations. That's why I referenced losing revenue. It is at the heart of why mid-majors don't get games vs. elite programs.

So you're telling me that taking Longwood (or a similar crap team) off our schedule for two home games .. meaning one hypothetically in the 2011-12 year, and one in the 2012-13 year, in favor of a home and home with Wichita St. would be such huge revenue hit it would not be worth it?

My first thought is I'd like to see those numbers; second thought is that if it was significant, we could adjust our schedule to work that out.

But obviously Self would want some puds as would any coach. You need those. And you need road games, neutral site, and home games vs. top programs like last season .. Arizona, UCLA, USC, Memphis, Cal, Michigan. And you only have so many opportunities, particularly with an 18 game conference schedule.

Practical reasons working against it, for sure.

Eride 3 years, 7 months ago

Yes, the revenue hit wouldn't be worth it by playing ONE game at WSU. KU would get no money from the gates (the home team gets that), no money from concessions, parking, etc (see above for who gets that). KU would also get no additional exposure because national TV (doubtfully even regional TV) wouldn't pick up the game. They don't get any recruiting advantage because the city is already in KU's backyard and they already can get whoever they want from there.

There is no positive for KU to play at WSU. None. Zero.

This isn't an issue of not wanting to play WSU, this is a issue of not playing at WSU when it makes zero sense to do so. It would be like playing at Washburn.

PhogAdvisory 3 years, 7 months ago

Eride has a point. Longwood is by no means at the same level of talent/skill, nor do they generate as much in-state interest as WSU would... But even so, AFH sold out for Longwood. And for the exhibitions. And for every other game. Which means a whole lotta parking permits, Coke Zeros, and ad revenue for the school.

This is nothing against WSU. I wouldn't mind seeing some games scheduled between us. But I understand KU's reticence as well.

That having been said, would playing at Intrust instead of Koch turn it into a "neutral court" game, like playing at Sprint? If so, would the two schools share the revenue? I'm unfamiliar with how that works.

Jack Wilson 3 years, 7 months ago

The positive, though a bit of psycho-mumbo-jumbo, might be to have a game or two to prep for a decent mid-major.

Another positive might be to shut them up.

But I get your point, and mouseclicker's, and Phogadvisory's. In the final analysis, your points are probably the better ones.

Gene Jackson 3 years, 7 months ago

I saw the video - definitely a slam - was not responding to the sign. But what do you expect from a school with now a big head? I say play them anyway. It will certainly make a lot of cash and generate a lot of press. Their coach, however, needs to cool down and not get in to name calling.

kcjaydoc 3 years, 7 months ago

Oh Zenger, you just won my heart. Amazing.

martyks 3 years, 7 months ago

Gosh, they actually called us chicken hawks. Horrible. Come on guys. We need to get over ourselves already. I am more into the idea of playing them now than before I heard this comment. It's funny, first of all. Chicken hawks, if you take a look at the one who gives Foghorn Leghorn problems, actually look meaner than the Jayhawk does. Secondly, let's play them and beat the ever loving stuffing out of them and then, we can start a chant, "You just got beat by a chicken hawk!" What is the big deal here? We play MO and they have been horrible for decades, refusing to even spend a night in Lawrence? The Wildcats fans have thrown pennies on our players. This is nothing. Play these guys and settle it on the court.

danmoore 3 years, 7 months ago

If only we were a$ rich a$ Pwnage think$ we are.

okiedave 3 years, 7 months ago

I agree with martyks. This sounds like children getting upset because "somebody called me a name". OU and OSU did not want to play Tulsa Un. in sports because OU and OSU had nothing to gain from a win but a lot to lose from a loss. Sounds like Zenger may be using this as an excuse for a way out of the match up. If we play Fort Hayes State and Emporia State, why not move up one notch and play Wichita State.

cobweb 3 years, 7 months ago

Lighten up, Sheahon. You have to have a sense of humor to be at KU. Worry about something important.

jayhawktalk 3 years, 7 months ago

I doubt Zenger's comment had anything to do with the "chickenhawk" comment. He simply used it to segue into this, "[we are] the flagship institution.” I am sure the chickenhawk comment is not keeping him up at night, nor does it bother him in the least, other than over joking over lunch about the 'non'possibility of KU playing WSU for all the reasons detailed by previous comments.

He'$ ju$t $ayin', take your $elf important, $marta$$ chickenhawk comment to the bank, and $ee what that get$ ya. The only $ $ign$ you will $ee from thi$ will be from ignorant W$U po$ter$ on a KU me$$age board.

AirCapJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Exactly. Playing WSU is better than playing half the non-conference schedule we play now. Playing WSU would help both schools RPI.

Larryfloyd 3 years, 7 months ago

It would be to KU's advantage to play Wichita State. I would suggest 1 for 1 on a yearly basis. I also think KSU should do the same. Wichita State is year in and year out a good program and I think the games would be very competitive. It would really ready KU for March games against the Valley because that seems to be what the committee likes to do. Playing Valley teams is tough because it really is a grind it out League with excellent coaches. A nightmare conference to be scheduled again come tourney time. Almost all the Valley games are low possession affairs with teams playing close to the vest and not much scoring. The kind of games that have given KU fits come tourney time. I think WSU was somewhat disappointed in how their season went. They were 29-8 but lost about 7 close games that could have gone either way. I think they would have fared very well in big12. I think they would have probably finished behind KU but really think that talent wise and coaching wise they would have been right at the top of league. To think otherwise is just not to watch much BB outside of big12 games. I'm actually a ksu fan (lifelong) but think this years's shocker team would have spanked the cats.

Larryfloyd 3 years, 7 months ago

KU was good this year. The rest of the big12...not so much so. I read comments on here about how would wsu do if they had to play a big12 schedule. They would have done well because the big12 this year was atrocious. Not every year for sure but this year the teams were just not good. The big12 this year should have been a 1 bid league and 11 teams would have been praying to get in NIT. If my beloved cats would have played in Valley, MWC,WAC,Horizon, or Atlantic10, they wouldn't have finished any higher then they did in big12. The reason is that the big12 was not a better conference and arguments could be made that they aren't nearly as good. There is a reason they didn't do better in tourney and that is that the teams were top to bottom NIT quality teams. And I really believe that the only team in big12 this year that was capable of winning NIT was KU.

AirCapJay 3 years, 7 months ago

Do you guys forget where Zenger came from? Now he is getting all uppity about being AD of the "flagship institution". I think he is just having a little fun with his former MVC friend.

Benjamin Piehler 3 years, 7 months ago

Its hard to get offended by "Chickenhawk".

Anyway, I think it'd be great for the teams to play each other.

Armen Kurdian 3 years, 7 months ago

First off, as a KU grad and former mascot, super congrats to WSU for winning the NIT. The announcer said it best..."The NCAA tourney is Ruth's Criss, and the NIT may be Outback, but it's still steak!" Big time victory for the Shocks, as they get to be one of a very small number of Div I schools that got to end the year w/a victory.

I remember in 2006 when WSU got to the Sweet 16, I was in S. Korea, upset about KU's loss to Bradley, but it felt great to watch WSU from half a world away and cheer them on.

My only issue w/a KU-WSU matchup is that someone has to lose. So in that sense, I'd rather they not play each other, but it's fine if they do also.

As for the 'chickenhawks' comment...c'mon, Mr. Zenger, that's good-natured ribbing. I get it all the time from everyone I know.

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