Advertisement

Tuesday, October 26, 2010

Reeling Jayhawks remain confident, motivated by football losses

Next foe, ISU, sets example for KU

Kansas receiver Chris Omigie pulls in a pass during warmups prior to kickoff against Texas A&M on Saturday, Oct. 23, 2010 outside Memorial Stadium.

Kansas receiver Chris Omigie pulls in a pass during warmups prior to kickoff against Texas A&M on Saturday, Oct. 23, 2010 outside Memorial Stadium.

Advertisement

Saturday, after an upset victory against Texas, Iowa State football coach Paul Rhoads had some interesting comments for the television reporter who asked how his team was able to win after being blown out 52-0 and 68-27 by Oklahoma and Utah, respectively, in the two weeks that preceded the game.

“You don’t lose two games like that and not keep fighting if you’ve got great character,” Rhoads said. “I got a great staff, kept ’em focused, kept ’em playing, and I got great kids.”

This week, as Kansas University coach Turner Gill and his team prepare to take on Iowa State in Ames, Iowa, the character of the Jayhawks certainly will go a long way toward determining the outcome.

Though they’ve been outscored, 159-24, in three consecutive blowout losses to Big 12 foes, several KU players said the most important thing for this team is to keep its confidence.

“We get scholarships to be football players and we can’t be babies about it,” junior tight end Tim Biere said after Saturday’s 45-10 loss to Texas A&M.; “We’re supposed to go out there and perform, and the way we’re performing right now isn’t good enough. We gotta do something, obviously.”

The problem is, the Jayhawks have done something. Despite being trounced, 55-7 and 59-7 in back-to-back weeks leading up to last weekend’s loss to A&M;, the Jayhawks showed up to practice the following Sunday and continued to work hard.

“As an individual, my confidence is never gonna alter,” sophomore Toben Opurum said. “I’m gonna be the same every day. I’m gonna give it my all, and the rest of my team is doing the same thing. No one’s out there giving up because we won’t accept that.”

Senior captain Angus Quigley said that’s the mind-set the Jayhawks need to have as they search for improvement during the final five weeks. Quigley admitted, though, that sometimes, it’s not always easy to stay positive.

“It is hard to go back out after getting your butts whipped,” Quigley said. “But we’re a team. We’re all grown men, and we’re embarrassed by it. That should be the motivation.”

Quigley continued: “If I go out there feeling confident in my abilities, that can spread like wildfire. Guys being confident in what they do and in the schemes, that’s contagious.”

Despite the admission that the team’s confidence had taken a hit — dating back to last season, Kansas has won just twice in its last 14 games — several Jayhawks said the recent hard times had been motivating.

“I don’t think it becomes harder (to go back out there), you just have to take it as a challenge and go out there and work harder in practice,” senior Jake Laptad said. “You can’t just take it as, ‘Oh, we’re done, so we can’t go practice.’ You gotta go practice harder every day now.”

Opurum to remain at DE

Monday morning, on the Big 12 coaches teleconference, KU coach Turner Gill said that sophomore Toben Opurum likely would remain at defensive end for the rest of the season.

Opurum, a former running back who was moved to linebacker before the start of the season, was shifted to the D-Line prior to the Texas A&M; game. He finished with six tackles and helped generate pressure on the A&M; quarterbacks.

“He’s definitely going to stay at the defensive end position,” Gill said. “That’s what his best asset is, being able to pass rush. He has good quickness and he’s going to continue to get better and better as he uses more and more technique.”

Injury update

Gill had no further information regarding the health of quarterbacks Jordan Webb (shoulder) and Kale Pick (concussion) or defensive tackle Patrick Dorsey (concussion).

All three players left Saturday’s game against Texas A&M; due to injuries and did not return.

Gill said he expected to know more about their status for this week’s game at today’s news conference.

Kickoff for KU-CU 1 p.m.

KU officials announced on Monday the start time for Kansas’ next home game, Nov. 6 against Colorado. The Jayhawks and Buffs will kick off at 1 p.m., and the game will not be televised.

KU’s streak of 22 straight games on cable or network television will be snapped this weekend, when the Jayhawks’ 1 p.m. battle Saturday in Ames, Iowa, is not televised.

Comments

Michael Leiker 9 years, 4 months ago

1pm game time. Sounds like a nice change of pace.

ahpersecoachingexperience 9 years, 4 months ago

Here-here! Not a fan of weeknight or 6 pm kickoffs

Ben Kliewer 9 years, 4 months ago

I was talking to someone today, expressing my newfound depression of Gill being Ron Prince II, and they said "These aren't Gill's players. He didn't recruit them. Give him time to get his own kids in and see how he does. These guys didn't come to KU to play for Gill, so they don't care." I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory, I think "If he can't motivate these guys to play for him, if he can't motivate these players to win for the school they attend, basically, if he can't coach them, he won't be able to do it any more-so with 'his' players, at least not a significant amount." But this person was so adamant about their belief that once the recruits are Gill's, that we'll see success, I couldn't help but lend them at least one ear. I would put forth the fact that many of Mangino's best players were not 4-5 star recruits. I'm still on the "Gill hasn't proved anything to me, and I'm pretty frakking disappointed" side of the argument, but let's discuss...

Ted Toulouse 9 years, 4 months ago

I'm in the same place. I don't really care if they are his guys or not. teaching is teaching - coaching is coaching. figure out a way to motivate.

It was more obvious when Mangino showed up because we didn't have guys that played hard. He weeded out the bad seeds and motivated. Even though we lost, you could see the effort and knew that when his recruits showed up, we would coach them up.

Don't really see that right now. Gill's philosophy seems more cerebral and it doesn't translate on the field with these players. I don't mind losing as long as we compete, and our ability to compete has deteriorated, not improved.

kureignman 9 years, 4 months ago

I'm somewhere in the middle of this argument. I think Gill should have some time not only to bring in his recruits but to install his system. It took Mangino 4 years to have a winning record. Where I'm mostly disappointed is how the team has not been prepared, Gills in game decision making (like not reviewing several plays & the weak play calling), and the coaching staffs lack of ability to make in game adjustments.

Cmill1221 9 years, 4 months ago

Stop right there buddy!!! Mangino took 4 years before his first winning season. BUT he took Kansas to a Bowl game for the first time in 10 years in only his 2nd season (also beat Missouri that year). And in his 3ed season he beat bill snyder and Darren sproles for the first time in I think 13 seasons not to mention he broke the Nebraska streek. Do not compare mangino to gill. There really is none, clearly mangino was the better of the two.

Cal Bender 9 years, 4 months ago

Gill's recruits at Buffalo are 2 and 5 this year, (that sounds familiar) and have scored 110 point and allowed 247.

mtdewjunkie 9 years, 4 months ago

quick fact check for you: k-state won exactly 1 more game in 2009 than they did in 2008. the difference? it could be that they beat us. it could be that they played 2 1-aa schools. finished 6-6. improved? sure... a little. improved greatly? no. not really.

speaking of holes in arguments....you might want to read your post again.

Dirk Medema 9 years, 4 months ago

Bill Self coaching Roy Williams' players underperformed Roy Williams coaching Roy Williams' players and Bill Self coaching Bill Self's players. Granted, the team did alright, but then they did have some professional talent on that team.

Is there any pro talent on the current FB team? Maybe some young players? Definitely not enough to even come close to comparing with the talent on Bill Self's first KU team.

somethingfunny 9 years, 4 months ago

Now, I'm no historian, but didn't HCBS not do so great in the tourney his first few years? The terrible "b's" ring a bell? Give gill time, he's already showing he can recruit. This team lost how many straight last year with the best qb and tandembof receivers to ever don a ku jersey.

Phoggin_Loud 9 years, 4 months ago

Going totally off memory, didn't KU lose to Georgia Tech in the Elite Eight in Self's first year? Close game. Down to the last seconds. That set up the rematch the next year on New Year's Day in AFH in one of the best overtime games ever.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 4 months ago

Yep..was there in St.Louis..Giddens missed a contested three-pointer at regulation that almost put Kansas into the Final Four in HCBS first year!!

Cmill1221 9 years, 4 months ago

A: he has not recruited a 4 or 5 star player at buffalo. B: his recruiting class currently ranks 11th in the big 12 C: these players aren't that bad at all pick commited to Arkansas then retracted it to attend KU. There is some talent mixed in. D: who would want to play for this guy? He clearly can't coach his way out of a paper bag E: If your child was a big time recruit, would you send him to play for turner gill at Kansas or would you steer him to a place where he has a chance to be successfull? F: What has Turner Gill proven? Overall losing reccord at buffalo and is Losing at Kansas as well. (Terry Allen even had a winning reccord before he got to kansas) G: NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE SAY OUR PLAYERS ARE BETTER THAN NORTH DAKOTA STATES!!! H: there has been ZERO improvement as this season has gone on. I: The guy just flat out doesn't have a clue.

See what your friend has to say to that.

GridironHawk 9 years, 4 months ago

A: Gill won without 4 or 5 stars (much like Mangino did at KU) B: This doesn't count some of the most recent recruits (including a 4 star stud named Darrian Miller). Also recruiting always takes a hit when a new coach takes over (hence why most schools give a coach 4-5 years). C: I tend to agree with this statement for the most part. However, your example of Pick shows that talented recruits don't always turn into great college football players. Pick might be the most talented of our QBs but he doesn't have what it takes come game days. That has been painfully obvious. D: He keeps bringing in recruits so there must be plenty of people who want to play for him. E: Turner Gill and Kansas vs. Urban Meyer and Florida will never be a contest. However, to say Gill can't have success at KU is a little premature. F: Let's not loose site of the miraculous job he did at Buffalo. They weren't exactly a power house football program (far from it) when he took over. The turnaround he had at Buffalo was nothing short of spectacular. However, I do agree the 3 blow out losses at KU are unacceptable & TA was a good Missouri Valley coach as well that couldn't cut it in the Big 12. I'm not ready to give up on Turner Gill yet. G: Upsets happen all the time in college football. Are you saying James Madison's players are better than VT or that Frank Beamer isn't a good coach? Yea NDSU is no James Madison but right now we are no VT either. H: Can't argue here. This is one of the most disappointing aspects of these loses. Players aren't better (actually seem worse) and they keep making the same mistakes. Also the coaching staff keeps making mistakes and can't seem to adjust anything. I: I find that hard to believe. Gill has been around football his entire life and been a winner at every level. I hate his demeanor on the sideline but that's who he is. He's anything but clueless when it comes to winning football programs.

Ted Toulouse 9 years, 4 months ago

shouldn't Omigie be watching the ball go into his hands??

PLHawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Gill could barely win with "his" players at Buffalo what makes people think he will win with "his" players at KU. Face it he is not a BCS conference type coach and will never do anything back at KU. Thanks again Lew Perkins for selling KU football down the river.

ahpersecoachingexperience 9 years, 4 months ago

His players at buffalo have only won 2 games. And this includes the recruits he got after the miracle bowl season.

Jaminrawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Buffalo NY is not a fun place to go to college, it's in the MAC and it was unofficially declared the worst program in the nation before Gill got there. You can't really compare it to even a BCS dreg like Kansas right now.

I'm just as frustrated as everyone else but the guy has landed 4-star recruits like Bourbon, Terry and now Miller in his short time on campus. You have to see how things develop because withhis contract, he's not going anywhere.

Michael Leiker 9 years, 4 months ago

The D might look different if Terry was back in there.

Dirk Medema 9 years, 4 months ago

Gill won a conference championship at Buffalo. Gill also recruited TX players to Buffalo. Gill also has on staff the assitant who recruited some of the best RB's in KU history. Gill's players at Buffalo are not doing as well without him as they were doing with him. Maybe his coaching does make a difference.

Cmill1221 9 years, 4 months ago

The only players from Texas gill recruited to buffalo were kids who didn't get a look from the real programs and chose buffalo over schools like utep, tulane, Arkansas state, New Mexico, and Tulsa. Give me a break. It wasn't like he was getting the cream of the crop.

Ben Kane 9 years, 4 months ago

complaining about Gill right now is as futile as getting into a land war in Asia.

All we can do is hope that somehow we steadily get better over the 2.5 seasons.

I know our boys want to win and i hope our fans will continue to support them.

kureader 9 years, 4 months ago

That's right ... it's unfortunate, but exactly right.

100 9 years, 4 months ago

Especially when he continues to land a solid recruiting class with more four stars lined up.

Our recruiting class is suddenly just below the number 2 team in the country!

Let the man coach his guys!

He wants to get a big beefy line & control the game with a powerful & quick running game.

See Oregon's strategy & that should give you an idea what Gill's teams will strive to look like in the next few years.

Except our lines will be bigger; man, you shift a D line out of the way & have some athletes ready to run, you win a lot of games.

It's all about ball control.

Patience, my friends...

Ryan Shelton 9 years, 4 months ago

Regarding your second sentence, do you mind citing your source?

100 9 years, 4 months ago

Oregon is currently the #2 team in the country (ironically their play is the vision of what Gill sees KU's personel & scheme looking like in a couple years).

According to Rivals, we are #46. Oregon is 34 I believe.

I'll take these early results, especially with the line he's assembled & the four stars to be signed in January along with him getting in the doors of five stars in both Florida & Texas.

You protect the future Gale Sayers types & run the ball often?

You have a chance to land them.

Ryan Shelton 9 years, 4 months ago

Well, hopefully this is something we can hang our hats on.

jhox 9 years, 4 months ago

Sure, I'm disappointed with the coaching so far, but the bigger problem is the lack of speed on this team. This staff's real strength is going to be recruiting (if this 2 and 10 season we're all but assured of doesn't scare off recruits.)

I do like what they were doing recruiting wise before the season, getting O line and running back committments. Clearly they could see we had issues with team speed and with the offensive line, before they ever played a game, and took steps to address it. Look for some of the RB's to become DB's.

Gill, Long and Torbush have all been around good programs and top conferences, and know what kind of talent we need to compete. Unlike Terry Allen, they have seen what it takes to compete on the highest level.

We have little choice but give them a chance to get the job done. I know it is hard to stay positive, but we may as well try to. What choice do we have?

kureader 9 years, 4 months ago

Correct again. Actually, I think this staff will snag a few really good players. Your distinction between Allen and Gill, relating to the experience of the staff is right on. These are entirely different coaching staffs. Everyone who's down on the staff should read the bio's of every coach on the staff. This staff does have a history of being succesful with major programs.

I just wish I felt better about Gill, himself ... his "disconnected" coaching style and his ability to express himself.

Rivethead 9 years, 4 months ago

When we're in the Missouri Valley conference?

DocBean 9 years, 4 months ago

How could it get worse? You're an idiot.

Roy Scherff 9 years, 4 months ago

yes ttoulouse, omigie should be looking the ball into his hands. fundamentals. success starts with fundamentals.

Rivethead 9 years, 4 months ago

Pretty sure he should have his chin strap on too.

Fruity22 9 years, 4 months ago

Off all the pics they could have chosen for this article why would they choose one of a wideout who never sees the field trying to catch a ball in warm-ups with a chinstrap over his eyes?

DocBean 9 years, 4 months ago

That's the perfect image, it shows how well these kids are being coached.

Dirk Medema 9 years, 4 months ago

You think he's being coached to play that way and call others idiot? Take a bit of your own medicine Doc.

sava12 9 years, 4 months ago

This could be an interesting game. Sometimes it's hard for teams to maintain the focus after a big win. If KU has some plays go their way, they could pull out a win.

Fruity22 9 years, 4 months ago

They'll lose by 3 TD's if they play well, 5 if they don't. This team is that bad.

Cal Bender 9 years, 4 months ago

"They'll lose by 3 TD's if they play well, 5 if they don't. This team is that bad" . . . ly coached.

Lindsey Buscher 9 years, 4 months ago

So if losing is all it takes to keeps everyone motivated then what's the point of winning?

Justin Kruse 9 years, 4 months ago

Rivethead, I think he does have his chin strap on, he's just pulled it up over his eyes. Couldn't stand watching this embarrassment anymore I guess.

I'm tired of hearing the argument "wait until Gill gets his players." It's not going to make much of a difference. He's got D1 scholarship players now and can't do anything with them.

Jhox is right, there's nothing we can do but stay positive and hope he gets the job done. I'm just tired of getting my hopes up only to be shot down in the first quarter.

Lone_salina_kufan 9 years, 4 months ago

Where is Chris Omigie. Even last year Mangino said that he was going to start to see some playing time. And earlier this year, Turner Gill said the same thing. Yet I don't think I've ever seen him make a catch this year. Anybody know what the deal is?

Fruity22 9 years, 4 months ago

He still hasn't learned how to properly wear his helmet. That's the only thing keeping him off the field.

khummel60 9 years, 4 months ago

Forced myself to watch the first two quarters of that aTm game last night, and was once again struck by the train-wreck of mistakes. Barfield not staying locked on to his receiver, only to get burned on a big pass. Operum getting pushed around, opening up a hole for the aTm QB to run through. Springer repeatedly getting out of position, and then not having the speed necessary to compensate. Angus running the play the wrong way on the goal line, forcing Webb to make an awkward throw. Horrible, horrible kicking game that repeatedly spotted the Aggies at midfield or better. The usual litany of idiotic, drive-killing penalties on the Offensive Line. Questionable play calling that took the running backs out of the game by the second quarter, despite repeated success running the ball.

However, what struck me the most was the play of Jordan Webb. It's difficult to criticize him, because he repeatedly got his bell rung, and single handily kept drives alive with his legs. I admire his toughness and gamesmanship. But time after time he made bad decisions. He threw balls he shouldn't have thrown, didn't see wide-open receivers because he didn't go through his progression, or simply made awful throws to receivers that were wide open. I know he has a strong arm, and is Reesing-like in his competitiveness, but he is a long way from being a good QB.

I don't mean to blame the aTm loss on Webb - there's plenty of blame to go around. But it seems to me his play is emblematic of the entire team. Young, inexperienced, and unpolished players that are desperately trying to succeed, but don't quite have the tools or wherewithal necessary. For that reason I'm beginning to view this season as little more than extended training camp for next year.

100 9 years, 4 months ago

Exactly. You nailed it.

To me this public perception deal is very similar to the Lebron James saga. So he jumped ship to become a champ & the networks made him look like a loser (and his ESPN telecast was awful).

But he raised $5 million in charity on "the decision."

And like all of us, he took a job promotion, although, financially he's making less for the good of the team.

Somehow a couple stories come out that "he did a bad thing to Cleveland" and all of the sudden the entire nation seems to disrespect him.

Personally, I say "good job Lebron". This is America... Way to stick up for yourself & go play with your friends & win some rings in a sunny city.

Same thing here at KU. This season, as much as we'd like to be 7-0 right now, it's just not possible.

Guys aren't used to the system yet. Perfect technique hasnt set in yet (this is a muscle memory issue, when changing staffs). Our guys are really young! And yes, this season like you said, really should be seen as training camp.

I would much prefer to sign a bunch of studs & lose then have a couple lucky wins & an average recruiting class.

This staff can bring them in.

And training camp will be a distant memory in a couple years when we're DoMiNaTiNg the line of scrimmage!!!!

(which equals wins, championships & dynasties if a coach can also recruit, recruit, recruit year in & year out).

As much as I dislike Duke & Coach K (he's a smug ass' that has ruined USA basketball), I truly believe with Coach Gill we have caught lightening in a bottle, a young up & coming recruitor who will put us in position to win championships, much as a young unknown Coach K did years ago for a rather average Duke basketball program.

Harrison Green 9 years, 4 months ago

I think its obvious why this team looks so bad and why it looks like the coaching staff is a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off.

The coaching staff did not know what they had talent wise to start the season. It is nearly impossible to evaluate talent without game film or proven commidities to compare it against. Literally every position is breaking in a new starter sans the O-line which we already knew was terrible minus the NU - Suh game last year. It looks like they're calling this season on the fly because they are. They didn't recruit this talent and they had limited time to judge it and only against other nonrecruited unproven talent.

I feel the right coaching staff is in place and the right system is in place to win long term and here is why.

  • We're already seeing vast improvements in recruited talent even with this terrible season that we're having.

-The pro style offense will attract prostyle players. We've seen it at running back and O-line now all we need is a QB that can throw the longball accurately to are already talented recievers. (at least more than 10 yards)

-If you feel like GIll is the first coach to have a rough start to a career at a basketball school with spotty football tradition I implore you to look at Mack Browns wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mack_Brown

-Nice guy coaches can't be successful? Look at what Tressel, a notorious strong Christian who inforces similar policies as Gill has done at Ohio State.

-Finally Gill is in the best position for long term success in this new league. He's young, unlike Mack Brown, Bill Snyder, Tuberville, or Sherman. Were he to become successful, he's not likely to be lured to another job besides Nebraska (which won't happen anytime soon), unlike Briles, Pinkel, Rhodes, or Gundy given the fact that he's already over paid (2 mill a year) and only a handful of schools elite schools could up that. Finally the bottom line he can recruit which I feel we will get more evidence for as the recruiting season picks up.

Andy Tweedy 9 years, 4 months ago

Careful! I've been asking for patience and I'm now being accused of being Turner Gill's mom! I agree totally, he needs time before being judged.

jhawker1 9 years, 4 months ago

You Gill lovers continue to amaze me!!!!!!!! He's in way over his head and we need to get rid of him immediately after the season ends, if not sooner! It's not impossible to generate the $$ required to buy his contract out. Let's find a solution and end this travisty before it gets worse.

2002Jayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

I can't help but notice how so many people are trying to say that Mangino had no talent so nothing was expected of him his first year, but Gill has a such a talented group that he should have a winning record. If he inherited such talented players why did they lose 7 straight games to close out last year?

Joe Ross 9 years, 4 months ago

Forget the record, 2002. Let me give you some intuition on what a lot of other people are seeing. It's not the amount of losses Gill has. It's HOW the losses are occurring. The "how" encompasses more than just the embarrassing lopsided losses (though that's certainly included). Gill and his vaunted staff are clueless on the sidelines. They look like they're in disarray. They don't appear to know how to manage personnel. They don't manage clock or time-outs well. On and on...

Take home message: It's not just the losses!

Sean Rodger 9 years, 4 months ago

Agree 100% with this comment. I can handle a loss, what I can't handle is how we lose. It's ridiculous - the tackling, the blocking, the running, the throwing, the catching, the lack of intensity, heart and emotion.

Zip...Zero...Notta.

2 years removed from the Orange Bowl and we're starin' right back down the tunnel from where we came.

notigers4me 9 years, 4 months ago

Coaches can only coach the players, they can't get on the field and actually play. We don't have any really good players on either side of the ball. I think that Mangino and his large butt is to blame for this debacle of a team. You can't take a donkey and win the Kentucky Derby, you have to have some studs to win a real race. We don't have any studs. We have some pretty good guys who would look good on a division 2 field, but this ain't division 2 unfortunately it's division 1. Let's give Gill some time. I am not even sure if Mangino had a winning record. This thing dates back a long way and we have a long way to go before we can consistently win football games. Our problems didn't start this year they started 30-40 years ago,

nocaljayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Re: Gill being able to recruit. If, as a potential KU recruit, you see the current team and coaching staff look so unprepared and uninspired every week, why would you want to become part of the program? In other words, looking like a non BCS-conference squad and taking repeated humiliating beatdowns doesn't seem like a way to win recruits.

Joe Ross 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree with nocal. His logic holds water. As to your point about Darrian Miller, I think people on both sides of the Gill debate recognize the counterintuitive feel Miller's commitment gives off. Am I glad we got him? Yes. Am I surprised? Yes.

...so are 90% of all Jayhawk fans.

Jaminrawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Yet they snagged three of their big targets this week.

bad_dog 9 years, 4 months ago

"The only thing we are good at is kicking the ball."

With two blocked punts and a missed field goal or two so far, I don't think you can even make that claim

Jaminrawk 9 years, 4 months ago

"Mangino left a lot of really good players for Gill and some that left when Gill was hired but, it looks like Gill can't capitalize on that."

Really good players? Who? These were the same players that were on that losing streak that closed out 2009 except they don't have Briscoe, Meier and Stucker who are in the NFL and one of the greatest QB's in KU history who graduated in Reesing. Is it so hard for peopel to accept that maybe Mangino's recruiting wasn't that outstanding? Most of his impact guys were surprises. If I saw one or two guys out there making plays I might accept the "Gill inherited good talent" argument but none of them seem to be doing anything righrt now.

mtdewjunkie 9 years, 4 months ago

jayhawk in nebraska has been using that argument all year. i have asked for a list of these great players, and how he would use them, and his reply was more or less: if you dont know then im not gonna tell you. then he calls you an idiot...not worth the fight with him.

Jonathan Briles 9 years, 4 months ago

I think that Mangino left some players we thought would be good, but have not turned out the way we wanted. Hatch has been a disappointment along with Thorson and Dudley. You also cannot blame Gill for the players he has lost. Spikes would have been better than an injured Thorson. Tharp would have been better than Dudley, and Jamal Greene would have been an outstanding DT. We have been littered with injury and players leaving the team due to discipline.

Once Gill gets this new O-Line in with Miller running behind it we will be much better. Honestly we have nowhere to go but up. Hawkinson is still very good. Spencer is a beast in training and our new guys will be huge and create massive holes for an extremely talented RB to run through. Webb will be more experienced and have a whole off season to look back at his own film and sit with coaches he now knows and get MUCH better from this season to next. I can almost promise you that if Webb is the starter next year he will be outstanding.

Gill has done a LOT of things so far this season I do not like, but I still believe that he is improving just like our recruits. If given the time he will make this team damn good. Even with just speed alone. No matter how good you coach someone you cannot teach speed and you could tell one of DB's what receiver was getting the ball and what route they were going to run to get it and against a lot of our opponents they would still give up a TD because they just do not have the athleticism to keep up right now and Gill is going to change that.

True fans need to recognize that you need to support your team no matter what. I know most KU fans do, but for some reason the fans on here seem to have no faith. Reconsider wether or not you are a real fan. If you think of yourself as one then support this team and stop pointing out every mistake and realize that mistakes and bad seasons happen especially in first years coaching seasons.

jaymar74 9 years, 4 months ago

If you are comparing Manginio as an assistant coach then you have to compare him to Gill at Nebraska. I believe Gill at Nebraska compares well with Mangino at KState and OU. In fact Long compares well with Mangino, and Torbush does also. Gill's talent from Mangino can be seen in Lubbock Smith, one of Mangino's prize recruits. Smith was beaten badly by TAM on the same play twice.

mtdewjunkie 9 years, 4 months ago

as ive stated before. there were 10 nfl players on manginos first team. these things are not hard to look up.

Andy Tweedy 9 years, 4 months ago

I've been posting on the wrong stories. It's nice to see a little patience on this board! Gill's resume was impressive to even the most skeptical, provided they took the time to read it. I don't know for sure that Gill can be a head coach at this level, but I surely don't know that he cannot. He hasn't been given the opportunity to coach his style with his players, and until he does it isn't fair to judge him. Personally, I think we'll be fine, but it will take some time. Getting Tharp, Spikes, Marongelli, etc. back next year will be sort of like a recruiting win. Even if they aren't stars, they will provide both improvement, depth and experience.

Joe Ross 9 years, 4 months ago

Gill is taking over a new system and some conspicuous apologists are saying he needs time. Sounds like a good argument, but there are faults with it in this particular case. Yes. It takes time to install a new program. Even Bo Pelini at Nebraska didn't fare well in his first couple of seasons. But there were things one could point to as a reasons why, and there was progress that you could see despite the coaching change and losing records. Furthermore, one could reasonably judge from Pelini's success at LSU that he would make a great head coach of a Division I school. No he was not the head coach but one could clearly see that he was responsible for a lot of their success while there, with the emperical evidence also showing LSU has not been as great after his departure. Point being it was safe to judge Pelini as a good coach. Gill has nothing one could point to at Buffalo and extract a similar projection for his abilities as a head coach at Kansas. He was brought here as the "AntiMangino". Period.

Andy Tweedy 9 years, 4 months ago

Not true! If you can find one shred of fact that points to Gill's time at Nebraska being unproductive, I'd like to see it. He coached arguable the greatest option QB in the history of the game in Tommie Frazier and a Heisman winner in Eric Crouch. And Nebraska stunk up the joint AFTER he was let go by Bill Callahan. As far as the anti-Magino, I think that is pretty obvious, but your assertion that you couldn't point to anything at Buffalo? Are you serious? They were a pretty pedestrian 20-30 under Gill, but they were 8-49 under his predecessor. That points to two things. 1) He did a far superior job than his predecessor, and 2) the expectations and history of a place point to zero success if you endure that type of record for 57 games. You're selling Gill's credential's way too short with your arguments.

100 9 years, 4 months ago

Exactly. What so many don't understand is we will control the line of scrimmage!!!!

Finally.

Do we this year?

No.

Why not?

Well we can debate on that all day.... Having a bunch of Freshmen & Sophmores who average 6'1" & weigh 30 lbs less than their opponents could be a place to start....

Gee I wonder why our offense looks AwFul this year, no matter what we try???

Try taking a snap in a D1 game with your Grandma as center and you'll begin to see our biggest problem right now...

But where Gill & his staff will shine, is not dropping Jordan Webb back to pass. This is just an attempt to get a few first downs until we get a massive line in the next couple seasons.

Once that line is in place, and trained by one staff (not two)... We will control the line of scrimmage!

When was the last time our line absolutely owned other teams?

Glen Mason's 10-2 team? Well maybe for 11 of those games we owned the line (even against NU that year we owned them, June Henley ate them up, too bad we had a bad play call for the two point conversion, we shouldve just gave it to June, they couldn't stop him).

Mangino's 2007-2008 team was brilliant to watch, but that was the spread (& Reesing's feet) combined with an OK line.

I would really like other posters to get this: Gill is attempting to establish dominance on teams like OU & UT. Our line will be bigger & possibly stronger in a couple years.

And we won't have to do that Jordan Webb drop back drip pass because we'll have a bunch of 4 & (hopefully one or two 5 star) runners & QB in the backfield eating up yardage on every snap.

Again... For those who don't get it yet.

Watch Oregon play sometime before the season is over.

That's the vision of the KU program.

That's why we'll be getting more four star recruits & perhaps a five before the season is over.

It's all about controlling the line & giving your future NFL prospects a sense of protection before taking the handoff.

We will own the line of scrimmage!!!!

Kenneth Hillman 9 years, 4 months ago

please stop posting, you are wearing me out.

100 9 years, 4 months ago

Kenhil, thanks for your insight, clarity & wisdom. I feel like I just visited the shrine of all classroom monitors.

Way to support the team.

Sorry everyone's predictions from last week aren't coming true ("oh my God no recruits will come here now.")

Guess what?

We have the biggest line in America over the next four years.

Lots of recruits will come here.

And, if you are indeed a KU fan, will be forced to root for KU.

And if you're not, well, you can enjoy watching the Tigers get pushed all over the field for years to come.

Of course, you better enjoy this year while you can:

MU 67 KU 3

Take your bathroom passes & go get your Tiger post game party set up at Arrowhead; in the blink of an eye 2010 will be gone, Gary Pinkel will be walking down the hall without a pass & fair weather fans like you better hope that's just rain falling on your head, because it sure seems steamy & yellow.

Kenhill: Stand up or sit down. Choose a side.

Coyotehawk 9 years, 4 months ago

I think one of the points JRoss is trying to make is the fact that nothing absolutely sticks out to an individual that would lead one to believe Gill has proven himself to be able to coach in a big time conference.

20-30 in the MAC, though much better then his predecessor, does not justify he can coach in the big leagues, let alone make him deserving of a 1.8 million dollar pay raise.

20-30 compared to 8-49 doesnt necessarily mean he was a good coach either. What if the previous coach just sucked that bad???? Food for thought. If we're going to assume one, we have to assume the other as a possibility as well.

tis4tim 9 years, 4 months ago

Okay, so you take a test and get a 30%. Then you retake that test and get a 50%. What grade does your transcript show?

It shows an "F". It doesn't show a little asterisk with a footer that reads, "It should be noted that little Johnny improved his score 20% from the first "F" to the second "F"."

The fact remains, Gill can take an 8-49 program and turn it into a 20-30 programs all he wants, but it still equates to failure.

I'm sorry, but I just can't buy into the relativistic arguments that inundate these boards all the time. Justifying losing by citing other losing is no way to build a program or succeed at anything, let alone sports. Losing should be unacceptable at any level, period. Yes, it happens all the time, but it is not acceptable. There should be no justification for it ever, no matter how much of it has gone on before or what the current circumstances dictate.

We are so quick anymore in this society to point out the failures of previous administrations/coaches/teachers or whatever as justification of current failure it makes me ill. It may very well be the case, but what good does pointing it out or leaning on that notion solve? It solves nothing. It only creates a mindset that failure is okay. Certainly failure precipitates growth, but too often it is used as a rationale for more failure, something I read on here everyday.

Blame Mangino or a bare cupboard or cite Gill's record of coaching teams to less failure all you like, but this program will go nowhere fast if this is the approach we take.

Joe Ross 9 years, 4 months ago

So you're saying a 40% winning percentage translates to CREDENTIALS? Seriously?

Jaminrawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Pelini wasn't the head coach at LSU so I think you are giving him waaaaay too much credit. Comparing Buffalo and LSU as their resume builders is apples to oranges. LSU gets all of the elite recruits in Louisiana which is a hotbed for talent. Buffalo was the worst program in Div-1before Gill arrived. In my opinion, Pelini has been very fortunate to work in two outstanding and historical football programs that kids dream to play for, while Gill has had to undertake two rebuilding projects at schools no one would ever call "football powers".

Joe Ross 9 years, 4 months ago

Drgnslayr...

Gill was brought here as the AntiMangino. It's truth. Not hate.

Jaminrawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Yeah, because the jobs where there is quick turnover and vitorol from many fans are the ones that attract the best candidates!

Gary Wirsig 9 years, 4 months ago

hawknhutch, please just stop the meaningless rants....

Bob Strawn 9 years, 4 months ago

impossible to pull the trigger this early on gill. he's doing no worse that mangino or mason their first year. the embarrassment, i get that. we had prince afterall. but you guys can't be serious about running off this guy after half a season. where are you going to find $8mm even if you did, plus another pot of money for the new guy? get real. give turner a chance. you've earned it.

Fruity22 9 years, 4 months ago

Can you expain what you've earned it means?

Jayhawk1116 9 years, 4 months ago

Gill got turned down by Auburn and Nebraska. Who here thinks we rank in football tradition and clout with either of those schools? We got a coach that fits the status of our program. Our football program can't feed off of the basketball program's history and tradition. To quote a phrase I hate, the football program's history "is what it is".

Iowa State has great fans, not much of a tradition in basketball. Do you think they believe they could lure Bill Self to coach there? No, they don't. Even if they Really Want Him There. Our football program is the same way. Just because you Want the best football coach in the country and think you Deserve the best coach in the country, doesn't mean he's going to want to coach there.

Give Gill time to recruit his speed. We don't really have a choice anyway. And in the meantime maybe we'll hang another National Championship banner in the Phog.

Coyotehawk 9 years, 4 months ago

I guess your right.

Tommy Tuberville has never had a winning season in his entire career............................

F_N_Genius 9 years, 4 months ago

Very nice point. This only justifies every "Kill Gill" statement on this board.

Andy Tweedy 9 years, 4 months ago

He also has years of experience at K-State. He didn't win when he first took over.

F_N_Genius 9 years, 4 months ago

Fact is he is not playing with HIS players. Something that EVERYONE seems to be pointing out as the reason why we suck so bad. Yet, Snider has KSU settin pretty phat.

mtdewjunkie 9 years, 4 months ago

he does? 2-2 in big 12 play. games with okst, texas and mu coming up...i see 2-5 in his future.

Larry Smith 9 years, 4 months ago

This is Snyders second year back. Make this comparison next year.

Did you know that Prince had the same conference record as Mangino the last 2 years? Both were 5-11. The difference being that Prince did not have a handfull of nfl players on his roster as Mangino did. Not saying that Prince was good, just saying that the results Mangino had were no better.

F_N_Genius 9 years, 4 months ago

Even with it being his first year back last year, he still hosted a .500 record.

Kicks to pooch compared to a 2-10 season being outscored by 40 or so on avg.

Phoggin_Loud 9 years, 4 months ago

OK, OK.

I never like to comment on the Photos with the articles, However...

How in the world do you catch a ball "looking through" your chinstrap??

No wonder this offense can't score any points.

Sheez.

Ryan Shelton 9 years, 4 months ago

I fail to believe that next year will be as bad as this year has been. The unfortunate reality is that it takes time to adjust when a coaching change is made. Gill cannot be compared to the Snyder situation at KSU and their quick turnaround as so many of the posters on this site are trying to do to make their case to fire Gill. Snyder is a special situation. First, the kids Snyder recruited in the last year of his first go-around were/are seniors last year and this year, depending on red shirts, medical red shirts, and the like. Second, he's already established at KSU and was still part of the team during the Prince years, even if he wasn't on the sidelines. Finally, he's a coaching legend across the US, much less in Manhattan, which makes the turnaround that much easier. Gill's past record indicates, if anything, that he can take the worst football program in the US and make it nearly a .500 ball club. All said, he left that program better off than when he came. What he can do with a program that is much better off than Buffalo, like KU, is still to be seen.

I know that some are saying he is in over his head because he's never been the head coach of a BCS conference school. Well, that's been true of every coach until they land a BCS job. Urban Meyer was at Utah before winning at Florida.

We've hit rock bottom, of that I admit, but every program has to start somewhere. Meantime, I will keep watching the games, cheering, and hoping the 'Hawks prevail.

I just hope the people on this site who have no patience don't run him or potential recruits off.

DocBean 9 years, 4 months ago

how can next year be worse? How can any year be this bad? If next year's team looks ANYTHING like this next year then the coach not only needs to be fired, the entire team needs to have their scholarships removed. These idiot kids are an embarrassment to the University. They're fat, slow, and pathetic in every way, just look at the picture above.

Ryan Shelton 9 years, 4 months ago

Idiot kids? I wonder if you would say that to their faces? There is nothing so pathetic as an "idiot" poster hiding in anonymity behind a computer. Shame on you.

tis4tim 9 years, 4 months ago

20-30 is "nearly a .500 ball club"? That comment is nearly sane.

Ryan Shelton 9 years, 4 months ago

40% Do you need a calculator?

Gill got 20 wins out of "the worst program in America." You can moan if you want, but he's proven that if you give him time, he can make something out of nothing.

ahpersecoachingexperience 9 years, 4 months ago

3 division titles. who f'n cares. not that we wouldn't be excited about that, but conference titles is what matters. your essentially happy about second place! that's like k-state guy doing jumping jacks because they made it to the elite 8!

Dirk Medema 9 years, 4 months ago

“You can’t just take it as, ‘Oh, we’re done, so we can’t go practice.’ You gotta go practice harder every day now.”

Unless of course you're a whiny blogger.

Kirk 9 years, 4 months ago

The people who are saying "It's to early to judge Gill's performance" wouldn't be saying it if he were winning.

rockchalknation 9 years, 4 months ago

The picture to this story says a thousand words. You play like you practice...gloves are loose, chin strap unbuttoned covering the eyes.

C'mon Jayhawks, let's tighten things up!!

Omari Miller 9 years, 4 months ago

From an article about Darrian Miller's commitment at TheShiver.com:

Miller will be enrolling at Kansas this spring, allowing him to participate in spring ball. However, before he arrives, Miller has a message for Jayhawk Nation. ”We’re bringing the program back.”

Jaylah 9 years, 3 months ago

As a member of Cyclone Nation, I'd be dishonest if I didn't admit that it felt good to get another win under our belt this year.

But that doesn't mean I want to rub all you Jayhawk fans noses in it, either.

After the rush of the ISU football program under Coach Mac (Dan McCarney), who -- by the way -- was the "winningest" coach the ISU football program had ever had, and then the idiot Jamie Pollard (ISU AD) and his decision to fire Coach Mac after a re-building year, when we got stuck with the absolute loser Gene Chizik and suffered loss after loss after loss for two years... Well, it hurt.

(Kind of amazing that only two years after Chizik couldn't even pull off a win over a One-Legged-Amputees-From- WWII team, Coach Rhoads pulls off our first ever win over Texas.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that neither ISU nor Kansas has ever been, or will ever be, one of the big "powerhouses" in college football. The Jayhawks are having a tough time right now, but those of us from Cyclone Nation know exactly how that feels. It hurts to go out there and play your heart out yet suffer loss after loss. I think it would be a bit un-human not to get discouraged after a while.

Keep waving the Blue and Crimson, Jayhawks. What goes around, comes around. Better days lie ahead.

We'll see you all next year. And hopefully, it will be a better game.

Commenting has been disabled for this item.