Monday, October 25, 2010


It can be, has been, worse for KU football


The history book, otherwise known as the Kansas University football media guide, informs us it has been worse.

For example, the season-opening loss to North Dakota State must be considered the worst of this season, but it’s not the worst ever. Kansas lost to Kansas City YMCA, Nov. 27, 1890, in the second game in program history.

The active three-game losing streak during which the Jayhawks have been dominated by an average margin of 53-8 by Baylor, Kansas State and Texas A&M;, sounds awful, but again, it’s been worse.

In Bob Valesente’s first season, 1986, the Jayhawks lost the last four games of a 3-8 season by an average margin of 50-3. Valesente went winless in the Big Eight that year, but was given one more year to show that was a fluke. The team did better in conference, going 0-6-1, with a 17-17 tie at Kansas State. After going 4-17-1 in two seasons, Valesente didn’t get a third chance. In ’87, his team was outscored by an average of 51-13 during one four-game span.

Glen Mason inherited that talent and couldn’t do much better with it in his first season, going 1-10 overall and 1-6 in the Big Eight. During the ugliest four-game span in 1988, Kansas was outscored by an average of 47-12.

In 2001, two coaches had a hand in a four-game skid of historically bad proportions. In the final two games of Terry Allen’s reign and the first two of Tom Hayes’ three-game stay as interim head coach, KU was outscored by an average of 55-5.

In the final three games of Mark Mangino’s first season, 2002, Kansas State, Nebraska and Oklahoma State put an average beating of 55-9 on Kansas.

The most encouraging aspects of that mine-field trip down memory lane come from the initial seasons of Mason and Mangino. By instilling discipline in hard-headed fashion, both men proved it is possible to drag a program from the depths to respectability.

Mason went 39-30 in his final six of nine seasons in Lawrence, his best record coming in 1995, when KU went 10-2 and celebrated Christmas by torching UCLA in the Aloha Bowl, 51-30. Mason’s first winning season came in 1991, which ended with a 53-29 victory against Missouri in the game Tony Sands rushed for 396 yards.

Mangino took his second Kansas team to the Tangerine Bowl and picked up his first winning record in his fourth season, when KU punctuated a 7-5 record with a 42-13 victory against Houston, then bossed by current Baylor head coach Art Briles.

Kansas coach Turner Gill’s style differs greatly from those of Mason and Mangino.

Reversing the current direction of the program will require Gill tweaking the coaching staff in the offseason. Meanwhile, the path to improvement starts where it always must, with recruiting better talent. Based on the commitments Gill has received so far, he clearly is attempting to bring more size to the offensive line, more speed everywhere else.

A nice tonic for all KU fans whose spirits understandably drag when their thoughts turn to football: Check out a highlight tape of 6-foot, 196-pound quarterback Michael Cummings of Killeen, Texas, who runs a 4.6-second 40-yard dash and has made an oral commitment to attend Kansas on a football scholarship.


KU_Alumn_2000 7 years, 7 months ago

I'd like to start a discussion regarding gill's recruiting.

Seems to me that his abilities to recruit are overrated. According to rivals...gill's 2011 class is currently not even ranked in the top 50. We still havnt recruited much help on the defensive line...meanwhile there are no four or five star recruits.

When comparing the 2011 class to mangino's classes...all of mangino's classes were ranked in the top 50 except 2002 and 2004.

Realizing that the recruiting season is far from over...but is gill really that great of a recruiter ? Time will tell...but he hasn't proven it my opinion.

Omari Miller 7 years, 7 months ago

Not likely to see any 5-star talent anytime soon. Take a look at who's signed 5-stars so far this season at Texas (1), Alabama (2), Florida State (2), LSU (1), and USC (1). You just won't find the best talent in the country picking schools that aren't powerhouses or national champions. Maybe, we can hope that some 5-star stud will pop up in-state or the KCMO area and has some unusual desire to stay and play close to home (resisting the pitch from OU and NU that Norman and Lincoln are plenty close).

Until then, what we should really hope for is consistently putting classes of high-3 and 4-star talent together. Standout athletes that have already proven themselves as playmakers. The star ratings don't tell the whole story, but on balance it's better to have them not.

Look at the types of teams we're trying to rival right now (a class ranking of 20-50). They'll have mostly 3-stars and two or three 4-stars. We have high-threes on board (another committed Saturday) and if we land Miller and Couch, we'll have a solid class of good threes with a couple of fours. Not sure that happens with this 2011 class, but there's no doubt that the coaches are telling these recruits that they need better players to come in and shine early for the program to take off.

Not certain how the 2011 class will turn out, but with recruiters like Reggie Mitchell (Glen Mason's wonder recruiter) on the staff, I tend to like our chances.

ahpersecoachingexperience 7 years, 7 months ago

Posters are going to tell you all day what a great recruiter gill is. But rivals is the best source on this issue. No four star recruits! Only isu ranked below us which will more than likely change after the winter/spring signing! Ku is usually the best school for athletics/academics on the recruits meaning gill has not beat out a bigger better school for a player yet!

DevilHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

4-star recruits usually commit at the very beginning of the recruiting season for elite programs or at the end of the season for most other programs.

ahpersecoachingexperience 7 years, 7 months ago

i'm sure most 4 stars ate chomping at the bit to get to kansas university (ljw style) after watching our last couple of games

DevilHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

I don't disagree, but the fact remains that several 4-star players are still genuinely considering KU.

Clearly they see something at KU that they like.

Mike Barnhart 7 years, 7 months ago

Depth is the key to recruiting. More than half of the 4 star guys never pan out in college. To get a bunch of experienced 4-star studs on the field on game day, you'll need to sign a lot more than two or three of them every year.

truefan 7 years, 7 months ago

Correction: we just signed 4-star Darrian Miller.

ahpersecoachingexperience 7 years, 7 months ago

nice! he will look great opposite TO at defensive end

DevilHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

Not quite...but yes, Rivals does say that Miller committed to KU now.

Let's see if we can get a few more higher profile recruits now in order to make this recruiting class better.

And...get this...suddenly KU has the # 46 class in the country according to Rivals. (Seriously, there is no reason that one 4-star player should make that change occur.)

Jaminrawk 7 years, 7 months ago

If I were a 4-5 star recruit, it would be really hard to pick KU considering this year's team, the distance from my home (likely Texas, Florida, Ohio or California) and the opportunity to play on national TV (not Fox Sports) at an SEC or Big 10 school. I love KU and I'm not trying to say it's impossible but if Turner Gill could pull a bunch of 4-5 star recruits to KU this year I would be shocked. He has landed 4-star guys like Bourbon and Terry though. So you can't look past that.

Unfortunately, MU has had the fortune of having some pretty good talent pop up in Missouri lately (Gabbert) while Kansas has been pretty devoid of top football talent and places like Wichita and Hutch seem to be more in OU territory. Basically they have to fix the lines and decide on a QB before things are going to get better.

kckmedic 7 years, 7 months ago

Actually, Bourbon and Terry committed under Mangino. Gill just kept them after Lew ran Mangino off.. We also had stud in state DE Geneo Grissom committed under Mangino but he decommitted and signed with OU after the debacle. The top 3 in state recruits last year went to OU. That may be one of the things by which to judge his recruiting. If he can start getting top in state recruits to go with 3 star Texas recruits then I'll give him credit.

bagels322 7 years, 7 months ago

Actually both of them committed under Gill. One of my friends is like best friends and worked with Terry. They both came under Gill. I love when people talk crap cause it's like the cool thing to do. Do you guys realize it takes quite some time to start anything in football. I just read that Mack Brown went 1-10 in both his first and second years. Got to give him time and recruiting is better than it usually is. Like Keegan said, look up Michael Cummings. He's Reesing on roids.

escaped_labrat 7 years, 7 months ago

I'll bet Mizzou starts getting a lot more 4 and 5 star recruits if they continue their success....while we continue to rebuild...yet again.

ahpersecoachingexperience 7 years, 7 months ago

Kansas football

It can, had been, worse

Totally replaces "Believe"

khummel60 7 years, 7 months ago

I've read that most of the top recruits wait until January to make a commitment. So while I agree that KU is behind currently, what happens in December and January may be the true indication. Not making excuses for Gill (tired of doing that) but he did get a late start. Personally, I'll be surprised if we land a single 4-star recruit.

Darrell Alexander 7 years, 7 months ago

Actually it hasn't been worse. What Keegan forgot to mention was those other streaks of being hammered was against several ranked teams. Gill is setting this mark against average teams. There's been some bad years at KU, but Gill is going to break all those records.

Andy Tweedy 7 years, 7 months ago

Not sure how long you've been a KU fan, but I was a freshman in '86, and believe was worse. We lost to Kent State in 1987. Kent State! And he talked about the teams that were beating us by 50+ points. We were losing games that weren't part of consecutive blowouts by 70+ points, and were losing our "close" games by 30+ points. IT WAS TRULY AWFUL!

John Strayer 7 years, 7 months ago

What about JUCO talent? If KU needs size and post secondary experience, why not file in holes in the 2011 roster with JUCO prospects? I now you want 4 yr players to build the program, but right now KU needs to stop the bleeding, before the patient dies.

Once the patient is stablized, then start building with 4 year players.

yovoy 7 years, 7 months ago

I was wondering why he hadn't gone this route? It's my guess that the JC ranks in KS are pretty picked-over which makes us have to go elsewhere to find the size/speed that he's looking for. OR the guys that have talent at JC are not the "character" guys he's looking for either: if they are at a JC they are likely being "farmed out" by marquee programs. I'm also guessing that he's got a longer view of what he wants to get to come to KU, but I'm not sure he's going to get a chance to get it into place, then we'll be right back here again.

Bucktooth Billy makes it happen, I don't know why Gill couldn't. If BB could/can recruit to Manhattan, I'd think recruiting to Larry would be that much easier. We were roughly equally to them in talent/wins in the early nineties.

kckmedic 7 years, 7 months ago

The Jayhawk Conference is one of the best JUCO conferences in the nation. The problem is that most of their players are guys who committed to big schools but couldn't make grades. So they are going there to make grades and then if they pan out then they end up going where they originally committed. And if they don't, then the big schools just wash their hands of them. So, even though there is plenty of talent in the Kansas JCs, it is hard for schools like KU to get them.

The weird thing about K State's recruiting advantage is that K State is still statistically the worst football program in D1 history. And they are recruiting to a school in the middle of a farm. Freaking Lawrence is 30 minutes from a major metro area. I think the problem is that K State realized years ago that they would never compete nationally with Kansas in basketball. So they put everything into football while we had ADs that did the bare minimum for football while doing everything to make basketball happy. Nobody wanted to rock the boat with basketball. See the Al Bohl/Roy Williams saga. I really think that KU athletics would have been better off with Bohl. He hired Mangino and put an emphasis on football. Which is what got him run out because Roy didn't like this. So, Bohl would have put as much into football, while still respecting that basketball is king, but would not have had all of the extracurricular shenanigans that Perkins had.

qrex 7 years, 7 months ago

Where does the current conference losing streak (10 games?) rank historically?

sava12 7 years, 7 months ago

It's easy to up when times get tough. It usually shows the true character of someone. It will be interesting to see what happens the rest of the season.

namder 7 years, 7 months ago

This is just great an article reminding us that it has been worse. Oh great, we should feel better knowing that. When realignment rears its head again, and it will soon, we won't even get a look from the Mountain West.

sava12 7 years, 7 months ago

I know you're frustrated but you need to realize that Gill is going to be KU's coach this year.

Coyotehawk 7 years, 7 months ago

Keegan, You forgot to mention in your last paragraph about the possibility of Michael Cummings decommiting after following Gills laughable season.

Layne Pierce 7 years, 7 months ago

Cummings will get every chance in the world to be the guy next year, because the fact of the matter is, outside of Sims, we have no real offensive threats. Patterson is grossly overrated. The other receivers are doing nothing.

Sims is first rate, but our line is ineffectual. Bourbon will add something next year, as will Miller, if we get him. Those will be big improvements, and the staff must figure out a way to get them on the field at the same time, occasionally.

Why not play both Pick and Webb at the same time in a dual quarterback set. What have we got to lose?

The thing that worries me is what kind of attitude the recruits have after they get here.

For whatever reason, the bunch we have now we a handful of exceptions, don't seem to give a rat's a--.

DevilHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

We have plenty of threats on offense - we just have a poor o-line...and Webb keeps making bad decisions in the redzone.

Phoggin_Loud 7 years, 7 months ago

"It can, has been, worse for KU football"

This statement is true, however KU has NEVER made the financial commitment to football that they have in the last decade or so. Therefore, all of the comparisons to past teams are moot.

KU has substantially upgraded the football offices, weight room, practice facilities, etc. In addition, this current Coach is making MILLIONS in salary.

I don't care how nice of a guy he is. I don't care how good of a recruiter he is. He needs to WIN football games or he NEEDS to be fired.

I no longer have patience for "on the job training". Win games or find someone who will.

What is happening now is downright embarrassing!!

kcglowboy 7 years, 7 months ago

Sorry, Tom, your long winning streak is over, you missed the point big-time on this one. Simply looking at the history books, at losing streaks, at point spreads, doesn't begin to tell the story. All of those previous streaks and prolonged eras of agony occurred amidst prolonged eras of mediocrity. In other words, those teams were merely living down to prolonged expectations. What makes this year (and the end of last year) so much worse is that it comes at a time when KU fans, for the first time in ALL of history, had reason to be optimistic that we could and, in fact, were becoming a consistently good program. We bought into the hope. We allowed ourselves to actually care about football and become excited about football. Three or four years of (near) sellouts proved that. So the SUDDEN crash back to earth, in my mind, makes this much worse than having to sit through Terry Allen or Bob Valesente.

And one more thing: I'm not going to allow myself to get excited about any recruit who has given an ORAL commitment. Oral commitments, we all discovered, were worthless even back when we were winning. Can't imagine how much an oral commitment means today.

Andy Tweedy 7 years, 7 months ago

The sudden crash started in 2009, not 2010. 7 losses in a row with the likes of Reesing, Briscoe, Meier, Sharp, Stuckey, etc. Gill may prove that he is or isn't the guy, but this mess is certainly not all his fault.

kuhawks28 7 years, 7 months ago

Like the 7 losses Turner Gill had his last season at Buffalo? Oh yeah, no one wants to talk about that.

It goes both ways. Seven losses after a big time season (Gill and Mangino) can be viewed as a team quitting on the coaches, coaching meltdown or just rough spots replacing other talent.

Bottom line, we're all angry with the product we've bought and paid for.

Andy Tweedy 7 years, 7 months ago

Fair point, but I'm just saying this isn't ALL his fault. It's hard not to question the coach for some of the stuff that's going wrong.

jayhawk2062 7 years, 7 months ago

It's the coaching or should I say lack of it Keegan! It's not all about the talent level.

I mean I guess if you get good enough players they will win despite the coaching. Look at LSU.

I truly believe that he is in over his head. It shows in all areas. He's repetitive and cliche with the media, saying the same things over and over and over again like a robot. His personal conduct policies are ancient in today's athletics landscape. And his team has no fight back, and no respect.

I sat 2 rows behind the bench on Saturday night and if there was a time when the defense came off the field and weren't fighting amongst each other or blaming each other for something I didn't hear it. Coach Torbush couldn't even get a word in edgewise at times due to all of the infighting. After being told something by coaches players would visibly shake their heads and roll their eyes right in front of them.

Did anyone see D.J. Beshears disrespect Coach Gill after throwing a temper tantrum in the second half against K-State? Coach Gill actually tried to discipline and correct something on the sideline and D.J. wouldn't even look him in the eye like a little kid throwing a fit.

Keegan......this is not just a first year coach going through growing pains. These are real problems, serious issues that have to do with coaching, not players. Nice guys finish last, especially at Kansas.

Andy Tweedy 7 years, 7 months ago

This "nice guys finish last" crap is all just a tired old cliche that's way too easy for people to jump on when things aren't going well for a "nice guy." Tom Osborne, Bobby Bowden, Pete Carroll, Bill Self, Roy Williams, etc etc. Need I go on? Nice guys win plenty at plenty of places. Turner Gill is clearly a "nice guy" and clearly isn't getting it done right now. But it takes more than 7 games to really see if it will work or not. There's still 5 games to show some sense of improvement, and he's not going anywhere this off-season, so we can only hope things get better.

BeakofLight 7 years, 7 months ago

/ / / love your optimism, but faith is for the blind in regard to college athletics

Andy Tweedy 7 years, 7 months ago

I would say I'm more hopeful that optimistic. I just can't stand that so many think just because he's a nice guy he can't win. If he doesn't win, that won't be the reason. It'll simply be that he can't coach at this level. That part remains to be seen.

Coyotehawk 7 years, 7 months ago

Your list of "nice guy" coaches all have one thing in common that Gill does not. They all know how to chew some a$$ when needed. I would bet the only harsh thing to come out of Gills mouth would be something like "Oh gosh darn".

An emotional coach leads to emotional players. Emotion leads to desire. Desire leads to victories.

Coach Self is a good man, we all will agree to that. But how many times have you seen Coach Self come off that bench as red as the paint in Allen Fieldhouse jumpin on someones a$$. Pissed off coaches get results. And Bill Sellf has proven that many times. Thats something you'll NEVER see Gill do.

If Gill expects his players to adapt and grow, he needs to do the same. His non-emotion coaching style may have worked in Buffalo, but this is the Big 12.

This is what wins games.

Oh, and just to point out, look at the stands... See any empty seats?

Just one more thing to add. Bobby Knight was 902-371. He won games because he got the players attention.

kcglowboy 7 years, 7 months ago

I'll say this, rockchalk1990. Until two weeks ago I was a Turner Gill fan, or tried to be, or wanted to be. I'm among the minority, I guess, in agreeing with you that nice guys (and/or moral guys) CAN win. I certainly WANT that to be the case. I really wish this would work, if for no other reason than to shut up the small handful of racist jerks out there who trash Gill (and the chancellor) for no other reason ... Anyway, I wish nice-guy Gill could make this work. But I fear that by the time his methods could conceivably pay off, the bandwagon will be barren.

Coyotehawk 7 years, 7 months ago

I would say that 99% of the negative comments on here have nothing to do with racism.

I would say that 99% of the negative commetns on here have everything to do with results.

Kevin Studer 7 years, 7 months ago

Calling the fans' anger "racist" is pure ignorance. I don't know one KU fan who didn't want Gill to succeed, nor one now who brings up his race when discussing the failure of his tenure thus far. You are embarrassing yourself, only are too self-righteous and clueless to realize it.

jayhawk2062 7 years, 7 months ago

Coyote is exactly right rockchalk1990. Roy Williams and Bill Self both chew their guys butts in practice when there aren't cameras around. I know that for a fact.

Turner Gill tries to be Tom Osborne. Unfortunately, Tom Osborne had some down right nasty hard ass assistants at Nebraska that did all of the bad cop stuff for him. He never had to raise his voice.

Funhawk 7 years, 7 months ago

Great article, LJW. I have lived through many seasons identical to this one and I still watch every game until the final play. I appreciate any athlete who choses KU as their school.

Like the current coach, the prior football coaches were all unique in their own ways. No two head coaches here have been alike. Some have come off as drama queens who might have succeeded better in Hollywood. They lacked self-control. A coach who is composed often succeeds in the long run. Look at Bill Snyder, Tom Osborne, Tony Dungy, Tom Landry. Coaches like those taught more than just football.

Andy Tweedy 7 years, 7 months ago

I may be more hopeful than his mom! I must point out that I am getting as frustrated as many others on here. My point is simply that I have seen what instability can do to a program (our program) and you can't fire a guy 7 games into his career. Who is going to want to inherit this mess if we get rid of Gill now? I know who...NOBODY!

ahpersecoachingexperience 7 years, 7 months ago

too funny! i hope your are kidding and you are pulling some kind of a joke.

Joe Baker 7 years, 7 months ago

I think it's a shame that we lost Bell and Grissom to OU!

dtownhawkfan 7 years, 7 months ago

maybe Turner will just be so embarrassed he will quit so we won't have to pay him the total of his terribly put together contract

Scott Oswalt 7 years, 7 months ago

Why did we give Gill a 5 year contract?????? Thanks Perkins, you idiot!

DocBean 7 years, 7 months ago

NEVER in the past has KU owed a coach the type of money it will owe Turner Gill if they fire him.

Therefore, NEVER has KU had it worse then it has it now. We CANNOT fire him! In the past we could fire the coach that sucks. We can't afford to fire Turner Gill, and can't afford to keep him.

We're truly screwed.

Phoggin_Loud 7 years, 7 months ago

He is currently losing his fan-base. He will soon lose his team. Then he will lose his recruiting commitments. Then he will lose his job.

A larger problem remains if he is not fired before this scenario plays out. Where will this program be in 5 years if he remains as coach?

Pay now or pay later.

Dyrk Dugan 7 years, 7 months ago

yes, it's definitely been worse. if you saw the talent level in '86, 87, and '88 ...and compared it to now, was demonstrably worse. '02 was worse as well.

what do those years have in common? both were left for new coaches to fix...and the cupboard was bare.

is it as bare this year? i think the case can be made it's close. after recruiting pretty well from '03 to '05..the '06 and '07 group yielded very few impact players....Todd Reesing, Dez Briscoe, Chris Harris, and Jake Sharp...were the few guys that actually played well...and considering that it took a record setting QB to get us 25 wins in three years....shows you how few of quality players we had.

and now post Reesing, we are dead in the water. no impact d linemen or o linemen...we have no scholarship recruited LBs....(everyone realizes that only Springer and Dudley were actually recruited and given schollies to play LB...and they are Srs this year.)

Our offense is going thru a coordinator change..and our QBs are not near the quality of Reesing. say what you want about Todd, but he found open guys and made a ton of plays when everything broke down. Best pure passing QB in KU history...and that's saying something. and we haven't come close to replacing him.

what did MM do early on? he went JUCO on us....all out JUCO in the '03 class. we had an immediate bump...but the impact guys were still the Talibs, Collinses McClintons and Riveras...all high schoolers. plus, with all of our JUCO efforts, we cut a few too many corners getting guys eligbile, and we got put on probation.

now with Gill? he is not doing that...the JUCO route that is. he will build from the bottom quick fixes it appears. so get could get worse before it gets better. he needs at least three or four years to see it...but i say he needs that opportunity. i've been calling for him though, to still show me something on the "coaching makes a difference" side...and he hasn't done it yet since GTech.

but i believe he still has one more of those in him this year.....but with our banged up won't be this weekend.

DocBean 7 years, 7 months ago

What makes you think this coaching staff is capable of winning another game? They will not.

The GT game was a fluke because 1. We were the home team - when it mattered 2. They overlooked us. 3. they were completely overrated. 4. they have HORRIBLE lines. and 5. There was no tape on our team for GT to prepare for.

The coaches didn't win that one for us. GTech won that one for us.

Boise_JHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

I agree with your comments that Gill will win one more this year.

Joe Ross 7 years, 7 months ago

Despite the growing murmur from Gill apologists, the football team is terrible thanks in large part to Gill himself. Perhaps the program HAS seen worse days, but the fact that we must consider such a possibility indicates the state of affairs is indeed miserable.

(Exhibits A-Z will be offered upon request)

Omari Miller 7 years, 7 months ago

Not to apologize for anyone or anything with the program, but as a realist and pragmatist, I'd like to see Exhibits A-Z. To be sure, this team looks pathetic. There are few things to be happy with when the team's performance is concerned. But, I am curious how we rationalize our way from the awful season we had last year (with better and more experienced players, no less) to the shock and outrage at our current state of ineptitude. Frankly, I hear too many of us still talking about the Orange Bowl season, like that was the last thing that happened before Turner Gill and staff took over.

truefan 7 years, 7 months ago

You make far too much sense to be on this message board. Away with you and your sound reasoning!!! haha

You're preaching to the choir with me, but I can't seem to get through to anyone else either.

Take away Reesing, Meier, and Briscoe from last year's 5-7 squad and we would have been a 2 or 3 win team with many blowout losses due to the inability to move the ball and our terrible defense. We have the same team, minus all of the play-makers from last year. Bad team, who would have thought?

okiedave 7 years, 7 months ago

I would support putting the Kansas City YMCA back on our schedule.

Andy Tweedy 7 years, 7 months ago

I think K-State already has them at home next year!

DocBean 7 years, 7 months ago

I think we might only lose by single digits to them!

rob4lb 7 years, 7 months ago

I don't know if it has been worse, but today certainly is 'as bad' and of the past references to ineptitude. At least during the last 5-6 years, I always had a sense that KU could win almost any conference game, except for OU and UT. The didn't win alot of conference games, but they were competitive. This team reminds me of watching the Hawks against Nebraska in the 70s and 80s. Unfortunately, the teams that have beaten the Hawks the last three weeks are middle of the pack in the Big 12. The team is so fragile; they need to play a perfect game just to have a shot at being respectable. I think it is an indication of lack of talent.

I haven't been impressed with the coaching. Can someone verify there is NO buy-out in Gill's contract? It is hard to imagine there is no oversight group that evaluates contracts to protect the university from large financial exposure.

Geekinout 7 years, 7 months ago

It all starts with the attitude of the head coach. I'm not saying that former Heisman candidate T. Gill is a loser, but my wrestling middle school coach once told the team after getting worked, "show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." After reading some of Jordan Webb's comments made me think back to that. Has anyone ever seen THE STREET STOPS HERE? Tyshawn Taylors high school and coach Bobby Hurley Sr. Different sport, but KU needs a guy who can reach into the depths of his players soul's and that gets every ounce of talent out of them possible off and on the field. Just not seeing any pressure to win or to make improvements....

jayhawk2062 7 years, 7 months ago

I will keep saying it. I pay my own hard earned money to support this football team. I am out there every Saturday spending hundreds on season tickets and parking.

To say that we can't fire him is ridiculous. It's called a revolt and mutiny. The crowds will start to go down. It has happened every game this year. The Family Zone area was 3/4 of the way full and the student section was maybe a little over half full on HOMECOMING! They gave away a ton of tickets to the game on Saturday just to try and get it respectable.

If every KU fan donates $50 or $100 we could get at least half way to the remaining contract to make it easier for the athletics department to pay him off.

Then our new athletics director can hire Mike Leach.

Geekinout 7 years, 7 months ago

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing KU going to Leach's air-raid offensive attack. At least it'd be entertaining to watch and we could get a real QB over 5'11''. Pretty sure he'd also be a solid recruiter.

Omari Miller 7 years, 7 months ago

I think this has become an exercise in grief management... admittedly for good reason. But as creative and proactive as many want to be, KUAD isn't going to fire Gill on the strength of protests lodged here, no matter how many or how intense those may be. If, then, what we're trying to accomplish is some modicum of solace through using this as a forum to air grievances (i.e., support group), then so be it. We're all upset or angry to some extent. What I might offer to the cause is a diversion...

The most positive story about the 'Hawks right now is offered by They report that all KU recruits on campus for a visit (including Darrian Miller) had a blast and are excited about coming. As I mentioned before, I'm sure the coaches are taking a scorched earth approach to spinning the season - "We need talent. We need you... NOW! Can't you see what's happening without you?!"

Andy Tweedy 7 years, 7 months ago

Had a blast and has now given a verbal.

Steve Gantz 7 years, 7 months ago

'86 was my first year at KU and the team had some nice talent, and if memory even serves correct was ranked after some early wins, went on the road nearly beat Auburn and Bo Jackson, but lost a good offensive lineman (center I think) and their offense fell apart. That team put their QB in the NFL, Norseth, and a linebacker Willie Pless was a star in Canada for years.

Steve Gantz 7 years, 7 months ago

I'm getting old, I'm speaking of the '85 team, keegan referred to the 86 team. My bad :(

Dyrk Dugan 7 years, 7 months ago

Rivals says Darrian Miller will be a Jayhawk

Kirk 7 years, 7 months ago

I'm not sure it's been worse. Those other coaches inherited crap teams and began their tenures in an ugly way. This year's team is actually moving backwards. We're worse, less competitive, less well coached than we've been in many years now.

This is the "next level". And it sucks.

Chris Kurtz 7 years, 7 months ago

I disagree that Kansas City YMCA was worse than North Dakota State. It was only our second game ever as a program and football hadn't evolved for many coaches to master it.

In our game agains NDS this looked like we were in our second game ever as a program, but it was 2010.

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