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Kansas State's Jarell Childs stops Kansas running back Angus Quigley Thursday, Oct. 14, 2010 in Memorial Stadium.
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KU football vs. KSU 2010
Videos from the Jayhawks' game against Kansas State on Thursday, October 14, 2010.
For the past eight seasons, Kansas University had a fat football coach. This season, the Jayhawks have too many fat players. So far, given the choice, I’ll take the fat coach.
KU doesn’t look like a football team. Too many players have gained substantial weight since last season, and it’s not muscle-weight. They look so immobile. By halftime, they’re so gassed they walk into the locker room when other teams sprint.
KU doesn’t play like a football team. It doesn’t execute blocks, and players too often appear to be way out of position on defense, a contributing factor in so many missed tackles.
If it doesn’t look like a team or play like one, that raises the question: Does it prepare like one? Do the players sneer and growl through hours and hours of uncomfortable running, hitting and being hit? Are they dragged out of their comfort zones regularly in order to grow? If you have to ask ...
This is a kinder, gentler football team. There is no cursing in practice, but there no doubt was plenty in the Memorial Stadium stands, which started emptying in the second quarter of Thursday night’s 59-7 mismatch. Empty seats always speak louder and sting harder than boos.
Kickoff was at 6:40, and the game was over by 7:30, leaving the players 2 1/2 hours to visit with their girlfriends, but they didn’t. The players didn’t leave the field. They stayed and took their beating. Give them credit for that and little else.
With six minutes left in the third quarter, a woman in row 30 had seen enough and pulled out her crossword puzzle. If the answer for 2 across wasn’t “hopeless,” it should have been.
An argument could be made that this game was won when Kansas fired strength-and-conditioning coach Chris Dawson and Kansas State hired him. The Wildcats don’t have much speed, a weakness exposed by Nebraska, but their players look well conditioned. To the eye, they looked in far better shape than many KU players.
Letting Dawson go was one of the many mistakes made in the wake of Mark Mangino’s forced resignation. Bringing in an entire new coaching staff meant too much time was spent evaluating talent. Keeping one coach on each side of the ball could have put Turner Gill’s staff on a speedier learning curve in the spring. Keeping Dawson, a big believer in excessive running to train the mind and body, would have resulted in a better-looking, better-performing football team.
The Kansas coaching staff had five more days to prepare for this one than the K-State staff, and look what happened. Not good.
Look at the bright side: Kansas coaches won’t have any trouble convincing recruits they can earn immediate playing time. Gill signed a five-year, $10 million contract. At this rate, it’s worth wondering how many recruiting classes he’ll get to recruit. With a new athletic director coming in, anything is possible if the team doesn’t become more competitive. Anything.
On the sidelines, players could be seen looking into the stands waving at relatives, and that lack of focus spilled onto the football field. Kansas turned it over three times, K-State once, which makes KU minus-7 on the season in turnover margin.
“This season we’ve literally shot ourselves in the foot in every way possible,” senior co-captain/running back Angus Quigley said.
Well, not literally. That would be Plaxico Burress, and that was the thigh, not the foot. But Quigley, while making sure to voice proper respect for Kansas State, made a good point in stating that Kansas keeps beating itself. Losing by a combined score of 114-14 to Baylor and Kansas State in the past two weeks, the Jayhawks had one take-away and seven turnovers.
“I’m still here to get this thing turned around,” Gill said. “How long it’s going to be, I don’t know, but we will get this thing turned around. We have a tremendous staff, like you always hear me talk about, so we’ve got the right people here, and we will get this thing turned around. It might take a little longer than we expected, but we will get this turned around.”
Gill keeps voicing confidence in the long-range plan, but with each weak week, the words ring more hollow.
Comments
fabio (anonymous) says…
Another good article Keegan. Keep it up.
KU- When are you going to learn? You don't hire a Division 1 football coach because he is "nice". Enjoy the next 2 and a half years.
Lone_salina_kufan (anonymous) says…
3 words: Ron Prince Jr.
This is what happens when you hire someone on their interview. Problem is, can't coach for s#$t! Im an optimist and patient fan most of the time, but seriously...anyone...anyone can tell that Turner Gill is in over his head. 13 days to prepare, and that's what you come with. Disgusting.
jhawk7782 (Mike) replies…
Maybe we can hire away one of Snyder's assistants. Worked before.
DSommersby (anonymous) says…
The Hawks dropped the ball letting Dawson and company go. I understand the thinking of totally cleaning house when Mangino had to go, but try and hang on to your assets. Dawson is very good, and it would have been wise to keep him. He married a Lawrence girl and loved it at KU. I'm sure he is sick to be in purple, but you gotta go where the work is and now they will benefit. Big John needs to get in gear and get these players in gear. I really hope he has a plan. Remember being a tad unimpressed when we hired a guy from South Carolina State to replace Dawson. Oh well....hope we can turn it around from here. I like that Joe Vaughn is still on the staff. Hope he can share some of the things he has learned with Big John. Keep an open mind Big John. There are many ways to skin a cat...no pun intended. Your current way is not working so let's keep working.
I would have kept Beatty for his Texas recruiting connections and possibly Bill Miller and Ed Warinner. Rumor has it we would have locked up Nebraska's stud linebacker Lavonte David and Geneo Grissom from Hutch had we kept Miller on board. Not saying you keep a coach for a couple of recruits, but those are going to be some studs and he would have probably brought us more. I also believe Warinner will be a good head coach someday. Not saying he was ready to take that at KU, but keep your eye on that guy as he will do good somewhere.
2005grad (anonymous) replies…
Dawson is probably in the same boat as Mangino right now... Laughing his butt off that we were so stupid to fire them... While he may have loved KU while he was here, I doubt he would come back.
jayhawkarmy (anonymous) says…
What are the chances now the Lew is gone that we can fire Gill? Do you think we can get Mangino back? Would he come back? If Gill would get fired who do you think would be a good replacement to heal this hurt team? input please
rastameta (anonymous) replies…
Mangino is not coming back. He won't be able to get a staff to work for him or recruit after what went down. Maybe in a few years he can be head coach again, but there needs to be time for his reputation as a tyrant to fade a little.
rastameta (anonymous) says…
You nailed it Keegan. Not keeping any previous staff or S&C coaches has had a huge impact on this program. You can thank Lew for that one.
hawkshot (anonymous) says…
Turner Gill has turned the program around.
runningbeakers84 (anonymous) replies…
Agreed!
jhawkrulz (anonymous) replies…
Really?
We have been competitive against North Dakota St (lost).
New Mexico St (Considered one of the bottom 10 teams in D1)
Georgia Tech-To tell you the truth I don't know how that occurred, but based on GT's record since, it wasn't a terrific win.
So than we were blown out by Southern Miss, and crushed by KSU and baylor.
i would agree, that he has turned us from being competitive in every game and going to bowl games to a team that just plain is not prepared. I must say that I was expecting about a 6 win season this year, optimistically. But with the soft Big XII side of our schedule I anticipated great things. I was wrong. After week 1, I was hoping for 1 win. At least we got two wins, but I don't see another win on the schedule. I guess our best bet is Iowa State; however, even that is a long shot this year.
What irratates me the most, is we are getting worse and everybody on that field should have been pumped up for an in-state rivalry game. Shoot we had somebody try to karate chop someone for a tackle, the announcers were trying to be nice, but they knew that the Jayhawks were not looking good.
RawkChawkJHawk (anonymous) replies…
Pretty sure hawkshot was indicating Turn-er-around Gill had turned the team from winning to losing.
njjayhawk (anonymous) says…
Tom, very well stated. This team and this "coaching" staff is an acute embarrassment to the university. Kum-by-ya.
Maracas (anonymous) says…
Didn't Perkins say he had Gill targeted as the number one guy all along? He should be held financially accountable for this hire. He perpetrated a fraud by hiring a man he knew, or should have known, was impersonating a football coach. Gill is in way over his head. He is, at best, a pee wee football coach.
njjayhawk (anonymous) says…
Turner's itinerary for today's KU football practice:
-- 20 minutes of Kum-by-ya chorses, with the team holding hands
-- 5 minutes each for offense and defense preparation for the upcoming game, using a flannel graph to depict new schemes of ineptness
-- 1 minute on how to tackle and block better, again using a flannel graph to illustrate
-- 30 minutes for home-made ice cream and sugar-laden chocolate cake treats for the entire team
-- 15 minutes on the psychology of playing future in an empty stadium at home games
-- 10 minutes for a pep talk by special guest, Lew Perkins
-- an annoucement of team rule changes: no women after 6pm and no cell phones, period; plus relief on cursing: players can now say "dang" and "golly (Gomer Pyle style only)".
-- end of practice
KU_FanSince75 (anonymous) says…
"Empty seats always speak louder and sting harder than boos." Keegan
No doubt. When is the new AD coming in?
Keegan, you bring up an interesting argument about the Jayhawks not keeping their strength coach, Chris Dawson. Very interesting for sure.
remlap101 (anonymous) says…
nobody said it was going to be easy and it definitely is going to take time. we the fans have a right to be disappointed and to act like we are. however, our expectations should be realistic. 2012 will be here before we see much improvment in our football team. our coaches are just fine and their approach to building a team will work. if complaining helps you and makes you feel better do it. in the meantime suck it up and stay the course.
Maracas (anonymous) replies…
The last two games, by which KU was blown out 114-14, is not about improvement. They were debacles that showed no effort, mass confusion, poor coaching, and a head coach in way over his head. And Gill just stands there looking stoic or stupid, I'm not sure which.
rxdoc1973 (RXDOC KU ALUMUS) replies…
2012? We lost to North Dakota State! Are you kidding me???? Complaining??? I'm about to start crying!!!! This season is a joke are players suck and the coaching staff can't put together a game plan to even keep us in a game! We recruited Division 1A players and lost to a 1AA school and the laughing stock of the Big-12 55-7! And having spoke to a former hutch high player Grissom was committed to KU and Gill and staff came on and decided he wasn't worth recruiting. Good Call Guys! You talk about next season but what about this one? I don't feel MM left the cupboard bare I just think our coaches are soft and are players are softer! I could have put the pads on and gotten beaten like that. Our O-line sucks and can't open a hole big enough to squeeze a dime through much less a RB. Weren't we just talking this summer about the O-line being improved over last year? Well this just in, they are far worse! This is the worst KU football team in recent memory hands down. MM was fired last season mostly because he went 0-7 to finish the season the other was used as an excuse! At least we were in most of those games! Gill will finish the Big-12 0-8 they have no chance to win a game. You can write your little touchy feely crap and stick up for them but there are no excuses when you lose back to back games 114-14. What a joke! I hope I have to eat crow and this staff turns this around but I don't see a glimmer of hope nor a snow balls chance of that happening! What do you build on after losing by that combined score and throw in the loss to NDS? I can only hope we have reached our low as a football program we have no where to go but up. Or we could lay down and get beat down by CU in their swan song. I heard someone talking about our chances against ISU. Really???? We should schedule a game against Tabor college maybe that could level the playing field!
BoulderHawk (anonymous) replies…
2012, Thankfully the world is ending and we won't have to suffer this team anymore.
DarthJayhawk (anonymous) says…
I for one am fed up with anybody that wants to stay the course or keeps standing up for this joke of a coach. This team has been unprepared, and lacks discipline. That falls on the coach. No amount of time or talent can fix these problems.
rohdek (Kyle Rohde) says…
When Tom Osbourne didn't give Turner Gill the Nebraska job, even after he pretty much begged for it, that should have been all the red flags KU needed to stay away. As close as Osbourne/Gill are, as much as he loved the way Turner played and the person he is, he didn't trust him with the Husker legacy. And now you see why.
I'm a believer that you have to give a guy time to implement his program but this is getting out of hand. TIm Grunhard said it right on 810 in KC this morning - "these guys are on a vacation from Mangino" and it's killed their heart, strength and effort.
escaped_labrat (anonymous) replies…
Amen to that comment about players being on vacation. Now, I wouldn't say all of them are on vacation, but enough effort is missing that it's obvious which approach to football works best. This is like country club football compared to military boot camp football in the approach. If anyone with half an understanding of football watched the games to this point, it's obviously a breakdown with the coaching and the players. I'd have to agree that Coach Gill comes across as out of his element when it comes to coaching Big 12 (10) football. He's a nice guy, but is it worth completely dismantling the fan base that took then entire Mangino era to build up? Rome wasn't built in a day, but apparently it can be completely destroyed in a matter of weeks!
rxdoc1973 (RXDOC KU ALUMUS) replies…
Loved the comment "Rome wasn't built in a day, but apparently it can be completely destroyed in a matter of weeks". How true!
runningbeakers84 (anonymous) says…
It seems to me that some of the players could have been extras from the movie: "Men who stare at Goats".
Solomon (anonymous) says…
Gill is a perfect example of Perkins' philosophy that money is everything. A year ago, Gill was being paid a salary of $200,000 and received an additional $200,000 in other compensation. Lew went out and offered him $2,000,000!!!!! A five-fold increase!! This for a guy that had a 20-30 win-loss record (14-18 in conference), and coached only one winning season.
Turner Gill is by all accounts a fine gentleman, and I don't want to disparage him personally, but he simply is not qualified, at this time, to coach in D1 BCS football. If KU had to hire him, they should have paid no more than $750,000. But, Lew, you see, can't see past the dollars. (If I pay more, I'll get more, no matter what all other indicators say.)
His hiring was malfeasance of the highest order.
fabio (anonymous) replies…
Very very well said Solomon.
slantrox (anonymous) says…
My KSU friend wanted Gill at KSU. I'm sure I'll hear from him today saying thank God KU has him and his washed up old head coaching assistants.
ashwingrao (Ashwin Rao) says…
Keegan, well said! Wonder what the early termination penalties are in Gill's contract?
IndyJayhawk1 (anonymous) says…
Keegan this was an excellent article! Thank you for being honest and too the point.
This coaching staff just does not have a clue. Maybe the next article should be on why it will take until the spring to get a new AD. What is the committee to find an AD doing...taking a page out of Coach Gill's play book and sitting around in a circle holding hands and asking if everyone is ok? The Chancellor needs to take charge and push this thing along!
1215 (anonymous) says…
I also was also at the game and all during the game the players were kissing there babies and talking to family. Players were sitting on the bench and not interested in the game ,ones that never took the field. This team is not focused players have to much ego i would not go to war with this group that was on the field last night afraid of getting shot in the back because my partner is not there for me. No discipline, no leadership, no heart, just a bunch of cocky players . Coach Gill finally said the correct words in post game interview "we are not a good football team" realizing that then take charge and do something about it like nebraska did put players in that play with heart and have some personnel values,skills and forget this style of leadership, otherwise your going to get them all killed on the field. As a leader your need to serve others and it is your job to make sure everyone else is successful first before you are and it seems that it is just the opposite in this case it seems as if you have recieved the golden goose and now the leader just sits out there and floats. you need to place people around you that you feel are much smarter then you and trusty worthy and start being a leader then you will see that this ku fan base will be your best friend if not they will be you worst enemy. go get them coach we need you know not later
Lone_salina_kufan (anonymous) replies…
1215, I find it disgusting that the players are, as you described, "cocky players." Seriously, after that, what the hell do they have to be cocky about? Thats pretty pathetic.
escaped_labrat (anonymous) says…
Maybe Turner Gill should reevaluate his approach and turn into a meanie! And hire Leach, Leavitt and Mangino on as assistants ;-)
slantrox (anonymous) says…
If the players had any sense and respect to them they would revolt on this coach like they did the last!
Some of our older players need to step up and tell this coaching staff how to coach!
Coach to the brink of anarchy because the fans have already committed mutiny!
I forgave the Baylor game despite not wanting to...this one is unexcusable! I was all for giving Gill and Co. a chance, but not anymore.
It aint over till the Fat Man sings! I'm sure HCMM is singing in the shower this morning!!!
ashwingrao (Ashwin Rao) replies…
'It aint over till the Fat Man sings! I'm sure HCMM is singing in the shower this morning!!!' LOVE IT! :-)
Speakeasy (anonymous) says…
Keegan's talking about fat?
ralphus (anonymous) replies…
He's certainly an authority on the issue.
ohioburg (anonymous) replies…
+1
mvjayhawk (anonymous) says…
TK has made the point before about Dawson...and he is right. seeing him on the sidelines in purple yesterday was disheartening and frustrating to say the least. he was/is darn good at his job...and he had a great rep when KU hired him.
look at the 2nd halves of the last two games..(i know the whole games are bad, but bear with me.) even in blowouts, you should be able to do something in the 2nd halves....and vs. Baylor and KSU, it's them 56, KU 7. to look at it another way, even if the scores of both games were 0-0 at the half, each team still would have kicked our tail. and that's a lot of conditioning, and 2nd winds out there...and we have none of it.
we don't have a football team right now. we have guys putting on the unis and going thru the motions...but it's not a program. Mangno to Gill, there's way to much disconnect...and the players have no buy in.
we're so thin at DL and OL...and our LBs can't run. throw in a redshirt Fr. QB, who may or may not be the future...and players playing mult. positions all over the place, you have total chaos. and bad results.
Gill has to show us something, anything, before the year is over....or his time at KU will be very short. maybe someday, KU will actually hire someone who can coach, will be in decent physical condition, AND won't fly off the handle at his players, staff, or university personnel. will it happen anytime soon?
DocBean (anonymous) says…
It's time people stop defending Turner Gill. I've said this whole time that he has a bad resume, but I was holding out hope that he'd be a good coach.
Good coaches don't let their kids go out and embarrass themselves two games in a row (WITH a bye week) no matter how unskilled they are. They're on scholarship aren't they?!
I'm not one to say fire a guy after a year before he can prove what he can do with his own talent. However, if he can't coach these kids up at all, then I don't care who he recruits, they will fail every time. How will he recruit ANY kid that's talented if THIS is the product he puts on the field? He recruited well at Nebraska when they were competing for National Championships, that doesn't mean he's a good recruiter.
khummel60 (anonymous) says…
I've learned through the years that you can tell when a team is poorly coached by the number of dumb mistakes they make. If there is a recurring theme with this team it's that they specialize in dumb mistakes. Snyder is a good coach for allot of reasons - one of them being that his teams don't make many dumb mistakes. They may get out-manned or out-played, but they don't shoot themselves in the foot. Gill's team, on the other hand, has consistently shot itself in the foot at inopportune times. Blown coverages, missed tackles, holding penalties, clipping penalties, illegal procedure calls. These are all signs of a poorly coached and undisciplined team in my opinion. You can only blame so much of it on youth and lack of talent. Like many others have said, I believe in giving a new coach time, but in the interim I expect the team to show effort and improvement. Last night we saw a lack of effort and the opposite of improvement.
divercity7 (anonymous) replies…
In other words they played about as apathetically as a KU football fan supports his team???
JoeSmith6893 (anonymous) replies…
More fan bashing eh? Is that you, Turner Gill?
BoulderHawk (anonymous) replies…
I agree with divercity7.
Not Gills recruits . Any fan worth their salt knows that a new Coach needs 3 years until their own players get enough experience before you can judge them.
I will say that I do believe it was a mistake
not to keep some former coaches an certainly the
strength coach.
ralphus (anonymous) says…
Yep, let's all keep giving Mangino a pass for cashing in on that Orange Bowl season by bringing in two more classes of highly mediocre players.
Works for me.
Look, I'm not absolving Gill from responsibility, but the myopia is reaching epic proportions around here.
chrishauser20 (Christopher Hauser) replies…
Regardless of how good or bad you think our players are they still need to compete and they are not, and this reflects their leadership. I have not seen many posts on here that say anything else but that. Football is not a nice sport and there is really not a nice way to get results from the majority of players from my experience. If you want to look at the track record of a nice coach and compare look no further than Wade Phillips and his coaching career.
Maxhawk (anonymous) replies…
So true. How can you win 11 games including the Orange Bowl and not recruit bettter than they did. This is hurting this team every bit if not more than Gill. Gill's old team Buffalo played Baylor a much much tougher game this year. Seems Gill may have recruited better players to Buffalo than Mangino did to KU
kureignman (anonymous) replies…
Completely agree. Why does everyone want a coach back who had one great season and was mediocre at best every other. The guy was an awful recruiter who had a great Offensive scheme.
All I heard about Gill was how great a recruiter he was. I never heard anyone say that he was a great coach (I mean he had a losing record). I hope that he lives up to the hype so KU will have better players for the next coach. I think that he should get his chance though for about 3 years and hopefully someone on the staff can figure out how to get the players more disciplined and conditioned.
lawrence_is_my_middle_name (anonymous) replies…
Because Mark Mangino won bowl games, hands down. Who else ever coached a KU football team to back-to-back bowl victories, let along a freakin BCS bowl??? People have too high of expectations for this program if they think Mangino did a"mediocre at best" job, because for KU he did outstanding.
kureignman (anonymous) replies…
I loved Mangino. I'm just saying people need to get over him. He's not going to come back!
And by mediocre, if you take away his legendary Orange Bowl season, he averaged 5.5 wins (pretty mediocre).
And those still in love with Mangino need to remember his first seasons: 2 wins (sounds familiar), 6 wins, then 4 wins. Let's give Gill a chance before we run it out of town.
OhioHawkfan (anonymous) replies…
I could not have said it better myself, dude! No other coach in KU history has even BEEN TO back-2-back bowl games, none the less won a major bowl against a big-time opponent! Gill couldn't coach in the MAC, so what makes all of you apologists think he can in the Big 12, especially when he has to play OU and UT every year? He's a joke of a hire, just like Lew was a joke of an AD! Hopefully the new AD will realize this and fix it, sooner rather than later!
Rivethead (anonymous) replies…
Let's see.....before the Orange Bowl season Mangino recruited exactly.........zero 4 star recruits.
After the Orange Bowl season Mangino was able to recruit several 4 star guys.....Operum, McDougald, Kande, Murphy.....plus a lot more higher rated 3 star guys than he could get before the Orange Bowl.
All those 4 star guys are on THIS roster playing RIGHT now.
Yup, you're right. Someone has epic myopia around here. Here's a mirror.
kugrad93 (anonymous) replies…
Recruiting rankings are a joke. Corey Kipp was a three- or four-star recruit. Charles Gordon was totally unheralded in the same class.
ohioburg (anonymous) replies…
Lack of talent is one thing. Lack of discipline and technique lies solely on the shoulders of the coaches.
swishymcjayhawk (anonymous) says…
i don't normally agree with you Keegan, but you hit the nail on the head with this one. an absolute embarrassment.
Brock (anonymous) says…
Is Gill capable of learning? I hope so, because it is going to be a long season and he will probably be the coach for a couple more seasons.
krich (anonymous) replies…
He may not be around after the season. I keep hearing that we can't afford to buy him out. Let the suite dwellers get their checkbooks out!
Duggan (anonymous) says…
Pick a Big XII winner, OU or NU to support the rest of the year, get your BCS cut and start getting ready for basketball. My biggest concern would be all the "Happy" players on the sideline, no disgust at all, just waving into the stands, laughing with each other, etc...I do not know how that is tolerated, that is a direct reflection of the discipline and attitude that Gill brings.
divercity7 (anonymous) replies…
Typical comment from a typical arrogant fan. The likes of Lawrence, Kansas hold true to form for fans like you!
JoeSmith6893 (anonymous) replies…
Whats is like up on your high horse, divercity7?
acsgreens (anonymous) says…
I guess I'll put in my 2 cents like everyone else. Having a discussion with a former player (ob ring holder) he seemed very concerned that the new s&c coach was no good. He doesn't believe in having the players run, which we are seeing. He also felt that the coaching staff was too soft, which we can see. He also mentioned that Mr. Andersen has requested Gill be removed from his seat, immediately. Those 3 speak volumes, and not that we need boosters to run the program but Mr. Andersen has done a lot. I say bring up Les Miles after this year with Leach and Leavitt as assistants. RCJH
divercity7 (anonymous) replies…
Just because a guy is nice and treats people well you jump all over him?!? Typical from fans like you!
JoeSmith6893 (anonymous) replies…
Thanks, everyone was wondering what you thought about the comment and now we all know!
caribhawk (anonymous) says…
What can I say that hasn't been said, I left the game mid second quarter, about 1 quarter after the KU players and coaches gave up. Make TG team chaplain or editor of the football players code of conduct rules, but get him off the field. Its hard to believe an institution of "higher" learning can interview one person for a job, hire someone with obvious lack of credentials, increase their pay 5-fold, and allow a bumbling Lew Perkins to guide the process (clearly Lew does not know how to hire, see Bonnie H and his hires into the athletic dept. responsible for ticket scam). It will only get worse, KU must swallow what little pride is left and stop the bleeding, cut TG loose at the end of this season.
bobsarobot (anonymous) says…
“I’m still here to get this thing turned around,” Gill said. “How long it’s going to be, I don’t know, but we will get this thing turned around. We have a tremendous staff, like you always hear me talk about, so we’ve got the right people here, and we will get this thing turned around. It might take a little longer than we expected, but we will get this turned around.”
Gill knows that those people in the bible who were said to live 500 years didn't actually live that long. Those are just stories and he knows that, right?
I get the feeling he thinks this is a biblical endeavor and a few hundreds years of hard work and turning young men into christian soldiers and great football players will happen for him.
We needed a new football coach and we hired a snake handler. Please let the new AD right this ship for us. That, to me, would be divine intervention.
divercity7 (anonymous) replies…
Wow, what a bigoted discriminatory jerk you are! Just because a guy is nice and treats people well you jump all over him?!? Typical from fans like you!
JoeSmith6893 (anonymous) replies…
Thanks for you two cents.
grandpa (anonymous) says…
Keegan. Sometimes, I have not agreed with you in your articles. This time, I totally agree with the content of your article.
jaycard (anonymous) says…
I lasted a little longer...left just before halftime. The major impression I had was the complete lack of physical play by the defense. What happened to jarring, shoulder to shoulder tackling? We were whiffing aand ole'ing all day.A little soft? No, the defense plays like p*#sies! And how about adapting when something isn't working. The punt formation has got to go. Just letting two to three rushers roar through unblocked to push the upbacks back to the punter does not work. I know, a minor point, but to me, another example of poor coaching.
squawkhawk (anonymous) says…
Maybe Bill Snyder will take Turner Gill into his mentoring program and work with him in the off season to help him with his coaching skills and coaching philosophies.
thanks32758 (anonymous) says…
So how did you think we were going to beat KSU?
AGoldschmt (anonymous) says…
I think this might be a case of "cupboard is bare" for Turner Gill (as far as what was left). I think we have to give him a chance to recruit his own players. Admittedly, it was embarassing last night, but I am hoping African-American players will consider KU for playing time and because we were gutsy enough to hire a black coach. Stay tuned and I believe we will be better.
divercity7 (anonymous) replies…
how racist is that comment?!? what does color have to do with it? recruiting, coaching or otherwise?!?
newjayhawk (anonymous) replies…
hmmmmm.....?
Mangino_Maniac (anonymous) replies…
"...but I am hoping African-American players will consider KU for playing time..."
Wow.
divercity7 (anonymous) says…
Tony Dungy never cussed, never screamed, never hit his players. One of the best and most successful coaches around. He is a "nice" guy.
When are all of you idiots going to learn that you don't have to be pissed all the time and cuss kids out to be a good coach? Bill Synder doesn't act like that and he has obviously turned that program around... again.
JoeSmith6893 (anonymous) replies…
Haha, you are the blindest one of all! Does it appear to be working for Gill? Maybe you and him can go to a Yanni concert together and hold hands!
bg_duck1 (anonymous) replies…
What everyone on here is saying is that TG is not a good coach and his "nice" methods aren't getting the job (which he is getting paid a loooooooot to do) done. Plain and simple. Your comments on this article are beyond laughable.
ROFL at the image of TG and divercity at a Yanni concert!
cooonrod (anonymous) replies…
Bill Snyder was mad with his players and coaches when they made the 12th man mistake and they were up by 40! Snyder has control. not in 5 years . they looked much better the first year he was there compared to Prince. Fire Gill NOW!!!!! or we will suffer 5 years of football much worse than Terry Allen..
gchawk04 (anonymous) says…
I like how people like Keegan claim to have known that losing coaches such as Dawson was going to hurt this team. Also a new coaching staff, new AD, and a bunch of freshmen starting in major positions. Yet so many people are acting like this team should have been competing for a Big 12 title or something, even though there was all of the turnover with coaches and new player. This team was most likely going to be a 3 or 4 win team this year due to all of the turnover. I like the few people one this site that are sane and are suggesting giving a new coach and a young team a chance before we throw them under the bus.
DWINOP (anonymous) replies…
Here's reality: Turner Gill is starting with much more talent to work with than Mangino had in his first year, yet Mangino's players played so hard that Bill McCartney walked into the KU locker room after the KU-CU game that year to congratulate the KU players and coaches for playing as hard as they did. So far, this KU team hasn't played with anywhere near the effort, heart and guts as Mangino's first year team.
All Turner Gill has demonstrated so far is that the demands of this job are way beyond his abilities.
mtdewjunkie (anonymous) replies…
what is your evidence that turner gill has much more talent than mangino did? your memory? plenty of nfl talent on manginos first squad. does anybody know where we can get some gametapes of those games from manginos first year? we were bad...we made mistakes, we got blown out...
who cares about mccartney giving a uplifting speech? that was his job. he was not coaching at that time... he was the founder of "promise keepers". ill guess he spoke to most of the teams that played colorado that year. do a quick google search if you are not aware of that group.
lawrence_is_my_middle_name (anonymous) replies…
Very well said, Mangino's teams never quit, not once. I've seen KU quit 2 games in a row now, it's like Terry Allen's last season all over again, plus the GT win, which in retrospect makes no sense at all. What happened to the fire from that game?
BoulderHawk (anonymous) replies…
They quit the second half of the season last year.
rxdoc1973 (RXDOC KU ALUMUS) says…
AGoldschmt. How could we be any worse? I mean seriously we have no where to go but up after that squeaker last night and the one two weeks ago! I 14 fricking points in 2 games and the D giving up 114! You don't have to be Nostradamus to predict us getting better. No offense man cause I know you meant well but I can't give this guy any credit thus far. Yes he's a black coach and yes he is a very nice guy. He was also a heck of an athelete but thus far he's proved nothing as a head coach. Osborne, as has been pointed out, didn't pick him although he did endorse him at KU. Why wouldn't he??? Sure take over KU and take that sinking ship clear to the bottom! As for cussing and screaming sure you can coach without it but you had better be able to light a fire under your players ass or you'll never amount to much more than a flash in the pan. Lets hope for our sake we have yet to see TG's flash in the pan!
ahpersecoachingexperience (anonymous) says…
i've been reading these post for years before i finally steped up and opened an account to post. just so i can say "This is a kinder, gentler football team. There is no cursing in practice, but there no doubt was plenty in the Memorial Stadium stands" is one of the funniest things i have ever read in my life. thanks to tk for telling things as it is and not being a kuad lacquey like some of the other writers i read on this site.
kugrad93 (anonymous) says…
The posts from people wanting Mangino back are amazing. MM was 1-4 against Snyder with KSU outscoring KU 163-50 in those five games. Snyder's teams outscored MM's teams 135-19 in his four victories against MM.
It really has not mattered who the KU coach is against Snyder, who is 14-4 against Kansas. After losing three of his first four games against KU (Glen Mason had a one-year head start in the building process), Snyder has won 13 of 14 against KU: 5-3 against Mason, 5-0 against TA, 4-1 against MM and 1-0 against Gill.
The MM lovers who are bashing Gill must have forgotten that Snyder won the first matchup against his former assistant 64-0, which was even more pathetic than last night's performance.
Gill might turn out to be a terrible hire, but one of the things hindering him is clearly the lack of talent left behind by Mangino, which shouldn't be too surprising considering the way last season ended.
I agree with Keegan, however, that letting Dawson go was a horrific mistake.
lawrence_is_my_middle_name (anonymous) replies…
Now that's really unfair to MM. The first year he had pretty much an entire team of Terry Allen recruits, nothing at all he could do about that one. The next year, when we're 5-1 going into the game, Bill Whitemore gets hurt in the first quarter when we were about to score a go-ahead TD. Without him at the helm, we didn't win a single game. Also, KSU won the Big 12 that year. The next year MM broke the 11-game losing streak in epic fashion. Anyone at that game will tell you it was the loudest Memorial Stadium has probably ever been. And the year after that, we lost on the road by single digits. This isn't about wins and losses, it's about competing in football games. Mangino's teams at least were competitive!
JoeSmith6893 (anonymous) says…
Poster divercity7 = Turner Gill
leenyong (anonymous) says…
Coach Gill, please, please, please.... stop talking about how great your coaching staff is. Please let the scoreboard be the judge of that.
Mangino_Maniac (anonymous) replies…
Turner Gill: "We are not a very good football team...."
Interpretation: "We are not a very good coaching staff..."
cooonrod (anonymous) replies…
amen brother!
KWufan (anonymous) says…
Wow, people and I mean wow. Do you really think any of these players on the team are all that great, look the cupboard is bare, and I mean not even a crumb. Webb is not very good. The offensive line is worthless. Tanner Hawkinson and Tim Biere would struggle to make the UFL!!!! What a joke and those were suppossed to be our best players this yr, that should tell you something about the state of our talent. Plain and simple no matter how much you think the coaches stink, they have absolutely nothing to work with. Case closed.
bg_duck1 (anonymous) replies…
I would wholeheartedly disagree. No one is saying we have Texas level talent but a good coach can make any player better regardless of their talent level and also have them prepared to play which (obviously) our players are not. Turnovers, penalties, missed assignments, blown coverages, and lack of focus comes down to one thing: coaching. And this team has very little of it. Players sure as he11 shouldn't be waving to their families in the crowd when we are getting crushed by our in-state rival they should hiding their heads in shame because of that embarrassing performance (if you can even call it that) they put on last night.
I have seen a LOT of bad KU football games in my days (24 year season ticket holder) but last night may have been the absolute worst game i have ever attended. And yes i stayed the whole entire game I guess i am a glutton for punishment.
Turner start coaching your players and quit talking about turning things around because things don't get turned around by words they get turned around by actions. Point Plankn!
jayhawkinATL (anonymous) says…
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Harbaugh is glad that he didn't take the KU job...Sumlin too. Starting to wonder what kind of a start Tuberville would have given us...he basically begged for the job.
Mangino_Maniac (anonymous) replies…
Tuberville!!! I know if we had been smart and hired the man, people would be excited about the future. Instead we all know that eventually we are going to have to go through another hiring ordeal in a year or two with the current staff we have - they just don't gives us any confidence. How depressing.
lawrence_is_my_middle_name (anonymous) says…
Mike Leach would get the program back on track immediately. Seriously, hire Mike Leach, whatever the cost.
jhawk7782 (Mike) replies…
AGREE!!
jhawk7782 (Mike) says…
Damn..Where's Jaybate when we need him?
jhawk7782 (Mike) says…
Starting to get psyched for the MU game!!
djhawk75 (anonymous) says…
This is getting out of hand. Keegan complains about players being out of position on defense. Well, they were last year too, and that's why we lost seven games in a row. He complains about letting go of the entire staff, as opposed to keeping one or two coaches or trainers, as if that would really make a difference. That's just silly. Keegan complains about players making mistakes that show a lack of discipline. Let's go back to the seven game losing streak that we had last year (under the "fat coach," mind you.) Then he complains about the players waving to their relatives on the sidelines. Now that's just petty and silly. And to start this ludicrous diatribe Keegan complains that the players are getting fat, and of course he has nothing to support this claim. And once again Keegan goes back to the tired routine of saying that this team is soft because Coach Gill is not mean enough. He says this despite the fact that the Jayhawks laid out a couple of Wildcats during the game.
And all you haters are just happily consuming this junk. Like left over food from Taco Bell, or Burrito King.
Look, it may be true that Coach Gill is not qualified to lead a program in a major conference--and the key words here is "may be." But the point is that there is no way to tell this year how good or bad a coach he is given the players that he has to coach. This team is just too young and too undermanned. We lost all of our leaders from last year, and two of our best returning players were lost for the season to injury before the season began.
And all this has led me to thinking, if Mangino had been retained, how long would the fans have tolerated the losing? Because it was bound to happen with this team, no matter the head coach. Perhaps these fans would have excused Mangino for another year and just look at 2010 as a "rebuilding year." Perhaps these fans would have looked at Mangino's record and see that after six years of rebuilding we would likely have another big year. Just some food for thought, something a little lighter than the fattening stuff we are apparently used to.
rockchalk1990 (anonymous) replies…
AMEN! People need to check themselves! It's as if they think Gill has Montana, Rice and Craig at his disposal! What talent we have is really young, we won't know if Gill can coach yet.
Mangino_Maniac (anonymous) replies…
We don't have Montana/Rice/Craig, but we're also not playing against Montana/Rice/Craig... only one reason why we are such a poor team, and that's the coaching staff.
baldjedi (anonymous) says…
Let's get something out of the way first of all. No way could we have kept Mangino because too much damage was done in the program. The players quit on him and it is what it is. That being said we also lost quite a bit of offensive talent so the offense was going to go through lots of changes. The defense got crushed last year and we have a lot of the same players back from that team. We lost our best player on defense(Stuckey) to boot.
The cupboard isn't quite bare, but we are not quite full either. Gill has a certain system and he is finding the players that fit in the system, which does take time. That being said I do question some of his decisions like moving Toben to defense when he was a stud RB that can move the changes.
We are realizing this team is not fast or strong enough to do the things needed. On the other hand this team does not seem to play with passion and seems to lack the physicality of the teams we had before that were going to bowl games like the Orange Bowl. At this point I am discourage by what I see, but I wanted to see improvement throughout the season, which honestly I am not seeing. Eventually TG will need to look in the mirror and realize something needs to change for this team to turn around. I hope for the sake of our KU program things take a turn for the better this season otherwise change of some sort will need to be considered.
juke4jay (anonymous) says…
Reality check fellow jayhawkers...... KU football is in a real hole, and its going to get much deeper. The way Mangino was fired and run out of town, followed by a very questionable coach selection, will follow this program for the next 5 YEARS. Get ready for things to get a whole lot worse. As in no wins for multiple years, no kid in their right mind would want to come and play for a joke program with no wins. I'm very sad about this, and actions will be taken by the administration to try and turn things around, but the damage that has been done is near nuclear......
jhawk7782 (Mike) says…
A new AD and a new coach can turn this around in far less than 5 yrs. Look where KSU was headed before rehiring Snyder....We should hire Mike Leach who is well known in Texas for recruiting and his high powered offense will attract skilled players.
baldjedi (anonymous) replies…
More and more I really have to agree with you about hiring Leach. The crazy goofball is a winner who knows how to recruit.
rockchalk1990 (anonymous) says…
It's hard right now to feel good about what we've seen, but Mangino? Turned us from a winner to a loser? please! We lost to Colorado, K-State, on and on and on last year. And that was WITH Reesing, Briscoe, Meier, Stuckey, etc. We were nothing last year and we lost all of our good players. From reading some of these posts, it's as if we won the Big XII North last year. Did we? Or did we go 1-7 in the Big xii with all those great Jayhawks? I'm getting pretty frustrated, too, but people need to check their short-term memories. As for the article, I found the weight angle interesting. I'm not a big fan of Keegan, but he does see the players up close, and I found it interesting to hear his take. Dawson certainly will be missed!
jayhawk_sean (anonymous) says…
At "acsgreens" - Just so you know - I heard on Rivals Radio with Bill King that Les Miles has in his contract to be the highest paid coach in the SEC. He has a rolling contract as long as he reaches 8 wins each year. Also, in his contact (with him being the highest paid coach) - what that means is - he gets $1000 more than the next highest paid coach in the SEC. So in theory, Les could go 8-4, lose a sub par bowl game, Alabama or Florida could win a National Championship - pay out a fat raise to that coach, and Les Miles will get a raise, plus the $1000 higher than a coach that won a National Championship.
Les Miles is set at LSU, as long as he wins.
I'm still mad that Tuberville openly stated he wanted the KU job - KU didn't even give him a chance. The guy coached in the SEC! The most premier football conference in the NCAA! We got a guy that coached the MAC. Settling back into mediocrity - I say he won't last long - donors, alums, and fans got a taste of what life could be like with a good football team. They won't stand for this - here's hoping nature takes its course (sooner than later).
Empty seats will speak volumes! I'm upset that I bought an over-hyped Rock Package, get 4 games, plus I bought the KU-mu game and I want a refund on all of it. I drive over 3.5 hours to come to the games, and we left by halftime of the ksu game. i want my money back - this is not what I paid for or continue to shell out money for gas, hotels, food, etc.
JacquesMerde (anonymous) says…
jayhawk_sean (anonymous) says…
"I'm still mad that Tuberville openly stated he wanted the KU job - KU didn't even give him a chance. The guy coached in the SEC! The most premier football conference in the NCAA! We got a guy that coached the MAC. Settling back into mediocrity - I say he won't last long - donors, alums, and fans got a taste of what life could be like with a good football team. They won't stand for this - here's hoping nature takes its course (sooner than later)."
First part is true, but right now I would settle for mediocrity. This KU group isn't even mediocre. Regarding donors, alums, and fans having an impact this soon, I doubt it.
Football, this season is done for.
I just hope the national media isn't correct about KU basketball. At least the part of the media controlled by ESPN, the Duke U. affiliate.
inteldesign (anonymous) says…
My recommendation would be to start preparing for Mizzu now. If anything could bring solace to the season it would be to be able to be the spoiler for the Tiggers. Of course, I would hate to see NU play for the conference title, possibly win it, then leave the conference. I would have to say I would rather Mizzu or KSU got it. Preference would be KSU.
Otherwise, yeah, getting rid of all the previous staff does not seem prudent to me, seems a little insecure. Getting rid of the conditioning coach does not seem like a bright thing to do as well if he was doing a good job. In the end I hope we are as patient with Gill as we need to be. It will take four or five years unfortunately to have a better idea. That is the no. 1 reason I hated to see Mangino go, because of his seasoning at KU. I sure hope future administrators value tenure more than they have in the past. KSU averages a new coach every 3.7 years. No wonder they were such a doormat for so long.
Gill is No. 37 in 120 years of Kansas football. That is 3.3 years per coach. Granted in the early history many only coached a year or so until they got a real job. My, how times have changed. In this era, stability, while your competitors are always reloading, rebuilding, or restaffing gives the program an edge. Today, where recruiting is so important relationships with high school coaches in conference territory is very, very important. If Gill is the man or not, KU really must settle in and get a staff who is there for a long time. Look at Mizzu now.
If Gill does not work out, I would invite a witch hunt for the chancellor if she had anything at all to do with this. Firing Mangino was a mistake we cannot afford to not learn from. We can get over it only, only if we learn from it.
KeverLocksley (anonymous) says…
Legit article Big Tom,
"We'll get this football program turned around" -Turner Gill-
I believe that this can happen, but the question is.... how long the Jayhawk family will wait....??
JayhawkBigXII (anonymous) says…
KU fans are doing a 3 year sentence... white shoes and all.
Lew Perkins terminated the football program while at WSU... then he left. It's a shame Shocker football doesn't exist today, especially to honor the students and families of the fallen.
Looks like 'ol Lew has done it agin.
lkinnison (anonymous) says…
OK Jayhawk fans
Lets take a 1/1000 chance that the Jayhawks will beat the Huskers! Assuming that Gill and staff watched the Texas game.
rrockchalk (anonymous) says…
BOOM! its a year later and k-state still scores 59
ja3hawk (anonymous) replies…
lmao... I was reading through the comments thinking to myself... something isn't right here. Then I look at the dates... 2010. It sounds like a lot of the same stuff from last year... buh-bye coach Gill