Sunday, October 3, 2010


Programs headed in opposite directions

Kansas tight end Tim Biere falls backwards after colliding with Baylor safety Mike Hicks (17) during the fourth quarter Saturday, Oct. 2, 2010 at Floyd Casey Stadium in Waco, Texas. At right is Baylor defensive back Mikail Baker.

Kansas tight end Tim Biere falls backwards after colliding with Baylor safety Mike Hicks (17) during the fourth quarter Saturday, Oct. 2, 2010 at Floyd Casey Stadium in Waco, Texas. At right is Baylor defensive back Mikail Baker.



Baylor defeats KU, 55-7

Baylor dismantled Kansas, 55-7, Saturday, October 2, 2010 in Waco, Texas.

— It didn’t in any way feel like just one game. It felt like a college football program on the rise mauling one on the decline. It left no room for ambiguity. Baylor football sits at one level, Kansas University football another. Don’t forget to include Baylor when listing the schools Kansas must stand behind when knocking on the doors of football recruits from Texas.

It felt a lot more one-sided than Baylor 55, Kansas 7 on Saturday in Floyd Casey Stadium. It felt like Tiger Woods meets Charles Barkley in a golf match, Danica Patrick gets chased by Fred Flintstone on a banked oval, a beauty contest between Cher’s original face and her most recent face-lift.

Chuck Wepner, known as the Bayonne Bleeder and the inspiration for the “Rocky” movies, all 50 of them, took some serious beatings during his fighting days, but when it grew too ugly to continue, too ugly to watch, a referee could send him to his corner, where the trainer would begin the process of trying to put his face back together. No such trap door was available for KU to use to save face, though Baylor was penalized 100 yards. The rules required the game play out until the clock expired.

“When I went out there, they were bigger than what I thought,” Kansas linebacker Steven Johnson said. “All of them were big. And I was just like, ‘What in the world are they eating?’ You know what I mean? Like, ‘Dang, how are they that big?’”

Baylor didn’t look as big in losing to TCU, 45-10, two weeks ago, but the Bears have come a long way under third-year coach, Texas-to-the-bone Art Briles, a creative offensive genius who cut his coaching teeth winning Texas high school games under Friday night lights.

When the players headed to the locker rooms at the half, a peek at the scoreboard wasn’t necessary to identify the team leading 27-7. The Bears ran together off the field, heads held high. The Jayhawks walked off it, staring at the ground, in no particular hurry to hear about it.

The wounds to the KU football program from this one cut so deep because Baylor always represented the best chance to beat a team from the South, and it might still, and how depressing is that? Starting next autumn, Kansas must play all six South teams every season and play just three teams a year from the current North. The tables flip, it becomes twice as difficult to win, and as it is, Kansas has had just one winning record in the Big 12, when it went 7-1 in 2007.

Nothing about the way Kansas stumbled inspired a belief that this is a program being steered in the right direction. For example, why did head coach Turner Gill need to burn a timeout on fourth down after a lengthy replay review supplied ample time to get everyone organized for the next play? The sideline looked so chaotic. It’s the fifth week of the season. Not good.

On defense, the coverage was so soft the Bears had time to catch the ball and turn into running backs, which left KU defenders forever having to make open-field tackles, the obvious cause of so many whiffs.

Baylor can’t match Kansas in either facilities or crowd support, but has a geographic advantage. The Bears also have a game film to show recruits bypassed by Texas and Oklahoma and considering BU and KU.


murph 9 years, 4 months ago

Ouch! Plenty harsh, Keegan. Since you're into before/after comparisons, someone could mention that your stuff reads like something Joe Posnanski might have written in grade school.

Sure, it was a bad game. But this still is a team with all new coaches and a a lot of freshmen in the skill positions. People might hear what you're saying better if you'd drop some of the venom.

yates33333 9 years, 4 months ago

Harsh? Some of the things he said were meant to be kind.

Consider. In 11 days we play K-State. Any ideas on how we can cancel the game?

lv_jhwk 9 years, 4 months ago

Cancel the game?! I know (hope) its only a tongue-in-cheek statement, but still. Regardless of an outcome, a true competitor is always wanting to play the next game, whether to earn redemption or to simply demonstrate improvement (which should be easy enough to do after this one). If any of the players have similar thoughts going through their heads, things will only get even worse.

Eric Williams 9 years, 4 months ago

since it's no secret you're on the anti-Gill bandwagon...

you do realize that Mangino delivered a losing program over his 7 years. His only good season came in the year when he didn't play Tech, OU or Texas.

The only Big 12 team Mangino had a winning record against was Iowa State. He went .500 against MU, KSU and Baylor. Yes he had a losing record against Colorado.

tis4tim 9 years, 4 months ago

Where does njjayhawk say anything in his post about Mangino?

This has nothing to do with Mangino and everything to do with Gill. It doesn't matter what the previous regime did or did not do because they are no longer in charge. If the best you can do to justify the piss poor performance of this team is to point out the shortcomings of former coaches it should speak very loudly about how bad things are right now.

deepind 9 years, 4 months ago

@tis4tim - you're right. Mangino was reference in this article. I can also understand the thought process behind many fans like njjayhawk. Here is the bottom line: Terry Allen to Mangino felt like an upgrade (going from 2-10 every season to 6-6)! Mangino to Gill does not (yet?) feel like an upgrade!!

Any new coach will have to EARN the fans' support and respect through the W-L record. There is no short-cut for that. Coach Self earned his by taking the team that was handed to him to the Elite-8 in his first year. We all know what happened to Self's team in 2005. Imagine what could have happened if his team had exited the Big Dance in the first game in 2004 as well!

I still believe that Gill can turn this team around. Only time will tell if we're right or wrong.

William James 9 years, 4 months ago

jhawk613- It's time to stop bashing Mangino every time a Gill team has another poor performance. Its like a politician that dosent have anything positive to say about himself, so he just finds someone else to attack. Secondly- Mangino was at KU 8 years not 7. He had a record of 50-48. That is not a losing program. Also, In 2005, KU went 7-5, including a blowout victory over NU and bowl victory. That is a good season. In 2008, KU went 8-5, beat a Top 15 Mizzou team, and won a bowl game. Thats a good season. If you are a Gill supporter, I would avoid bringing up the topic of winning and losing records.

sevenyearhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Coach Mangino's teams rarely looked unprepared, and we were in games until the end last year.

Turner's coaching just made Baylor - BAYLOR look like fcuking Nebraska!!!!!

It just isn't that we're losing, we're getting embarrassed ...

Ashwin Rao 9 years, 4 months ago

I am torn!

I do understand that the coaches are working with players that were handed to them, but the way we were mauled, showed clearly that we were not prepared for the game coaching wise). We were out-played in nearly all aspects of the game (except punting! :-) ). What hurt the most was that we didn't regroup after the half and change the way we played! We came back to the same plan yet again.

Even though score shows that Webb had a bad game, I believe he out-shone considering the circumstances! We definitely need to give him adequate support, otherwise we will lose his confidence, and will have to look for yet another QB...

Dirk Medema 9 years, 4 months ago

Hmmm, I didn't get to see the game (network squabbles?) but the radio guys were repeatedly commenting on an inability to hit open receivers. Granted, they also talked aboout him being chased plenty (Did Riley eventually get some reps?) but hitting open receivers falls squarely on the QB's shoulders, and can completely change the pace of both teams.

CatsEatBirds 9 years, 4 months ago

Webb was under a lot of pressure. Kid was running scared and played reasonable for a freshy.

Ted Toulouse 9 years, 4 months ago

I think it's the coaches' jobs to get our young team emotionally fired up for road games. Young teams need to be inspired on the road. Seeing no emotion (good or bad) on the sideline of a bad loss bothers me

Bob Strawn 9 years, 4 months ago

coach gill is finding how hard it is to follow a legend. emaw.

phi4life940 9 years, 4 months ago

Emaw is the dumbest phrase in college sports. It makes no sense.

I know I don't waste my time reading rival teams forums. But I guess KSU fans have nothing better to do. Pathetic.

P.S. KSU will never be anything compared to KU. No med school, no law school etc. Have fun with your clearly inferior university.

charlesyu 9 years, 4 months ago

Yeah . . . that highly ranked ku law school (rolling eyes here) . . . what is it again? 2nd or 3rd tier??

Sam Brockert 9 years, 4 months ago

snd tier, and since 1st tier are schools like Harvord and Yale, then I would say it isn't bad for a Public university...

Mark Anderson 9 years, 4 months ago

EMAW = Every Moron A Wildcat! It sounds like a jackass braying - oh wait, it is!!

KU76erfan 9 years, 4 months ago

Just can't stay away, can you tiny tim?

melrank 9 years, 4 months ago

Wow - too ironic. Boarding a plane to Atlanta. Mike Leach is in seat behind me discussing football, TT, etc. I'll ask him :)!

melrank 9 years, 4 months ago

"So Coach, give our AD a call if you want to get back into coaching. I'd love to have ya on our team".

ML - "Yeah, that'd be fun. Too bad about the bear (MM). He's a good guy."

"I've got Crabtree on my fantasy team. Should I keep him?"

ML - "I don't know. They don't have a QB who can get him the ball."

Dirk Medema 9 years, 4 months ago

Do you really think apathy wasn't a part of the last 7 games last year? Sounds like you have a vendetta - from day 1.

I whoeheartedly agree that there are plenty of disappointing things happening on the field, but to paint this rosey picture of Mangino is just ignorant.

sava12 9 years, 4 months ago

So....Turner Gill is off your Christmas gift list?

Allin Herring 9 years, 4 months ago

Great read!!! Please someone listen to this!! Is there a coachiong position open at Nebraska for him???

mtdewjunkie 9 years, 4 months ago

fact: putting the word FACT in caps does not make your opinion a fact. more facts: 45-3 (isu) 39-16 (bowling green?!) 64-0 (k state) 45-7(neb) 55-20 (osu) those are scores from manginos first year at ku. he did lead us to big wins over missouri state and tulsa. did you want to "give him a few years"? this team does not have the talent to compete with a lot of these teams...firing gill isnt going to change that.

Jaminrawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Really? I didn't see Dezmond Briscoe, Todd Reesing, Aqib Talib, Kerry Meier, Darrell Stuckey or Jake Sharp out there. I guess Mangino losing his last seven games last year was Gill's fault too.

No one is making excuses for this, but they just aren't good. Period. And in college football, if you are on the level of Kansas, it takes time to rebuild. Mangino caught lightning in a bottle and some 3-star and 2-star guys panned out. I seriously, seriously doubt Mangino would be doing much better with these guys right now.

mtdewjunkie 9 years, 4 months ago

i see a minor difference between the players terry allen left and the players mangino left. a MINOR difference. (see i can use caps too!) i would argue that the cupboard is bare. mangino wasnt recruiting 5 star talent.

mtdewjunkie 9 years, 4 months ago

ask ksu about snyders first year...1-10. here is what ksu fans say about his first year back.. louisiana lafayette 17- ksu 15. texas tech 66- ksu 14. mu 38-ksu 12... finished 6-6. 1 game improvement from prior year.

Eric Williams 9 years, 4 months ago

Mangino versus Big 12 teams. I'll start top down for you.

vs. ISU (6-2) vs. MU (4-4) vs. KSU (4-4) vs. BU (2-2) vs. CU (3-5) vs. NU (2-6) vs. OSU (1-4) vs. A&M (1-4) vs. OU (0-4) vs. UT (0-4) vs. TTU (0-4)

That equals being better than ONE other Big 12 team during Mangino's seven years.

Rivethead 9 years, 4 months ago be correct, Bob Stoops was invited to KU's first winter workout under Coach Mangino. After the workout he wished his friend the best of luck and stated that "you've got one D1 caliber player on the roster".


Anyone who compares Mangino's first year to Gill's first year is a complete fool and doesn't understand the SIGNIFICANT differences in what each coach inherited. Mangino would have loved to have four 4 star recuits (McDougald, Opurum, Kande, Murphy) like Gill inherited.

mtdewjunkie 9 years, 4 months ago

really? complete fool? you might want to look at the rosters again...or look at this i count 10 players that were on the roster during manginos first year(2002) that were drafted or played in the nfl.

NebraskaJayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Calling someone an idiot says something about your own character mulaza. Your "see I told you so" attitude is quite childish as well. I've been reading your posts since before the beginning of the season, and I'm pretty sure you that if I were to see you in real life, you'd have a plank sticking out of your eye.

KU_FanSince75 9 years, 4 months ago

Actually, Keegan is right on, for once! I will go a step farther. How does the Jayhawks stack up against K-State? If we get beat 54-7 on October 14th (the game is in Lawrence, btw), then, you can say the programs are heading in opposite directions. K-State better than the Jayhawks in football----I'm sorry, but that is totally unacceptable in my book. It better get corrected quickly!

NebraskaJayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Personally, I think you have made some good points in this thread hawknhutch. I will give Coach Gill this season to at least show that he can coach before I start questioning him as a coach. I love his character and they way he is upbeat, but my goodness....there's nothing wrong with instilling discipline and teaching the team to play every down. We don't have to end the season with a winning record, but at least be competitive in each and every game this year. The performance yesterday was appalling to say the least. I do think there are some high quality athletes on this team and that the cupboard is not bare by any means. We had some unfortunate turnovers that halted some really good drives that could have changed the face of the game had we put the ball in the endzone. So I don't think that the score reflected the good things that were accomplished during the game. However, our players and coaches were clueless as to how to stop the short passing game of Baylor. At some point in time you have to start taking risks to get back in the game and that never happened. It should have happened to start the second half because the game was still in reach. Quit being afraid to lose.....

KU_FanSince75 9 years, 4 months ago

Nebraska--good post!

I just see Gill and others as being afraid to lose, too. Just relax and play the game---but be competitive. A 54-7 type game brings back the games of old with Nebraska when Osborne was coaching----geeze!!!!!

NebraskaJayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Hate to say it, but if we don't start playing with some passion, Nebraska will hang 80 points on us in Lincoln this year and erase the drubbing we gave them in '07. I had high hopes of beating them in their final season with the Big T (the T stands for Texas, not Twelve).

OCJHAWK 9 years, 4 months ago

That will probably be the game we play lights out in as Coach Gill probably thought he should be coaching his alma mater. ( I say with hope)

Jeff Hargate 9 years, 4 months ago

There are definately some really close comparisons with Mangino's 1st year and Gill's. The difference is that this team has many more capable skill postion players. Both lines are terrible which makes the whole team look bad. We could not get in the Baylor backfield to save our lives which makes it tough for our DB's to cover for 5-7 seconds. Our O-line could not give our freshman QB 3 seconds to find and open reciever. It all starts up front and you can tell that Coach Gill realizes our needs as he has gone out and got commits from what, 6 offensive linemen? I am going to try and not have a knee-jerk reaction to getting whooped and blame it on the downy-conditioned field that had us slipping all over the place.

JayViking 9 years, 4 months ago

Keegan, how in the hell are you an editor? Your grammar is pitiful sometimes. Your point in this article is valid, but your incessant exaggerations grow tiring.

NebraskaJayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

He went to school. He was hired by the LJW. He arrives to work on time with a good attitude. He writes interesting articles. He meets deadlines on those articles. And finally, he puts up with whiners and critics of his work. That's how he is an editor.

CatsEatBirds 9 years, 4 months ago

I know you want to bash him for not being a total homer, but Keegs is putting it nicer than many fans.

William James 9 years, 4 months ago

Just to give you a heads up, Keegs told me he dosent read these posts. Just throwin it out there for ya.

murph 9 years, 4 months ago

He probably doesn't read them anymore. After the first few times he did, his feelings got hurt so often he quit reading them.

Dirk Medema 9 years, 4 months ago

"For example, why did head coach Turner Gill need to burn a timeout on fourth down after a lengthy replay review supplied ample time to get everyone organized for the next play? The sideline looked so chaotic. It’s the fifth week of the season. Not good."

I have been as big a supporter of Coach Gill as anyone, but the fact that this has happened is annoying to say the least, but that it has happened repeatedly through the year is becoming disgusting. There are a lot of factors that are beyond the coach's control, or are conteracted by the moves of the opposition, but this is an issue that is completely within the control of the coaching staff. Very disappointing, especially 5 games into the season.

kranny 9 years, 4 months ago

If you stood KU and OU players side by side, position by position, it would be easy to see why KU is where it is right now. Football is size, speed and strength. I don't question the effort of the KU kids. I think they play as hard as they can with the ability they have. Unfortunately, they are simply not the same ability, speed, and physique wise as the top programs. Simply put, if Gill can get the athletes, the wins will take care of themselves. The analogy of You can't make chicken soup out of chicken poop isn't meant to belittle our players, it simply means you aren't going to win ball games with subpar athletes.

CatsEatBirds 9 years, 4 months ago

Does the analogy still work when you stack them side by side with Baylor?

Ashwin Rao 9 years, 4 months ago

Comment from the article: “When I went out there, they were bigger than what I thought,” Kansas linebacker Steven Johnson said. “All of them were big. And I was just like, ‘What in the world are they eating?’ You know what I mean? Like, ‘Dang, how are they that big?’”... so the answer is "Yes, it holds up!"

CatsEatBirds 9 years, 4 months ago

Well done, point made. I look at the ku team and don't see smaller, slower, less talented players. But maybe that's why I'm not a scout or recruiter.

William James 9 years, 4 months ago

Are you saying KU dosent have the athletes to protect their home field from North Dakota State? That they dont have the horses to lose by less than 50 to Baylor? Was Mangino that bad of a recruiter?

troutsee 9 years, 4 months ago

The talent, the speed, the physiques are not there. It was evident in the Southern Miss game and was very evident yesterday. It is obvious to me that Gill knows how to judge talent. That's why he has put recruiting emphasis on the O-line and has shifted players around this year to take advantage of their speed. He also needs to recruit linebackers with speed...big time. He also needs to recruit a QB with size. It looks like this year and next year are going to be long years. However, school is still out on the coaching ability of Gill and his assistants. Our talent level is not up to snuff, which even gives more credit to the impact that Reesing had on the Mangino era.

Brandon Meek 9 years, 4 months ago

Would be nice to have Holt, Rivera, Talib, and Gordon right about now...

Rivethead 9 years, 4 months ago

You mean those 2 star or minor 3 star kids that Mangino was able to coach into a 4 star or 5 star performance?

That's what's disappointing to me. I really thought that Gill was going to be able to make a player play beyond their natural abilities.


Scott Bonnet 9 years, 4 months ago

Leave town Keegan. You're clearly not one of us. Go away.

Omari Miller 9 years, 4 months ago

When did our program start heading in the wrong direction? Last year at the start of the 7-game losing streak? We like to talk a lot about what each new coach inherited. Seems to me that we like to too easily forget that our team went out like a train wreck last season... and that was with Reesing, Meier and Briscoe. This isn't to say that yesterday's loss wasn't uniquely embarrassing, but shouldn't we keep this all in perspective?

Kirk 9 years, 4 months ago

Mangino made KU football competitive, which it remained through last season. Now we're back to the old blowouts we old timers know so well -- at the hands of teams like Baylor.

Kansas has never had the talent, top to bottom, line to line, to equal most Big 8 or Big XII teams. Once you remove the toughness (and the inventiveness to keep opponents guessing), this fact gets exposed quickly.

The blowouts will continue, and so will the coaching carousel, with its usual pendulum swing from loser-nice-guy to unappealing-hard-ass and back again.

mtdewjunkie 9 years, 4 months ago

we get really like mangio. wait...why are you here? i thought you were rooting against ku? remember when you said "I'm rooting against KU now." and " I hope GT embarrasses us". you stopped being part of "us" then... now go away.

kranny 9 years, 4 months ago

We'd have the same record if Mangino was still here. Actually we probably would've beat NDSU but lost to G-tech.

kranny 9 years, 4 months ago

I beg to differ with "never had the talent" line. The Orange Bowl team had plenty of talent. At least 5 players from that team are playing on Sunday. That's a lot of players from one team to play on Sunday. This team doesn't have one player with NFL talent. OU, NU, Texas, and recruit NFL caliber talent. That wins football games in the Big 12. Put Opurum back on offense.

mtdewjunkie 9 years, 4 months ago

how do we convince coach gill to move opurum to tight end? i dont think he is shifty/quick enough for running back, but if you could get him the ball on the run he could knock some heads in the secondary.

grandpa 9 years, 4 months ago

troutsee. I again agree with every work you posted. Our talent and physical level is not there. It is going to take awhile to convince the huge, talented linemen to come to KU just to have athe opportunity of a beautiful campus. They want to be on a winning team so the pros will notice them. Same way with talented quarterbacks. We need taller quarterbacks and definitely taller defensive backs. I was at the Baylor game and the height of their defensive backs was noticeably more than ours.

charlesyu 9 years, 4 months ago

Keegan shows he doesn't know much. On campus Baylor Football just moved into a brand new Football Complex and just built a brand new indoor practice facility.

troutsee 9 years, 4 months ago

Speed kills. Look at Oregon. Well, we can dream, can't we?

bdmeek13 9 years, 4 months ago

I completely agree troutsee. I was also noticing the cannon of a few QBs that some fairly obscure programs have (e.g. Washington State). Even Reesing couldn't throw like some of these guys.

Brandon Meek 9 years, 4 months ago

I have been posting since the beginning of the season how we all need to be patient and that this is Mangino's team that finished on a 7-game losing streak but now minus the 4-5 best players from that team. I still stand behind these statements, but something just hit me a few minutes ago as I was thinking about the difference between the football program and the basketball program.

I haven't read or heard about any football players being dissatisfied after the past couple of seasons and personally committing to do something about it. On the other hand, we've heard a couple of handfuls of stories over the past few years of basketball players not being satisfied with the team's performance or their own and starting rigorous off-season programs with Coach Hudy (the Morris twins are the most recent examples). There seems to be a complete lack of expectations and personal responsibility at KU as it relates to football. Maybe they are doing these things and it just isn't publicized the same way as when basketball players do it. If those strength programs are in place...they aren't working. We are consistently over-powered in the trenches.

As bad as this season is apparently going to be, I think is is reasonable to expect that we see a line formed at Hudy's door after the last game. I want to see the same level of commitment and work being put in by the football team BEFORE the season starts as we do from the basketball program. Once the first kick is in the air, it's too late to build that mentality and get that part of the game in order.

There is a world-class athletics program just across campus in AFH providing a blueprint. Shall we see if there is anything to be learned from them?

Rock Chalk!

okiedave 9 years, 4 months ago

"When I went out there, they were bigger than what I thought,” Kansas linebacker Steven Johnson said. “All of them were big. And I was just like, ‘What in the world are they eating?’ You know what I mean? Like, ‘Dang, how are they that big?’”

When you stand in awe at the opposing team before the games begin, you should not be surprised when they hang half a hundred points on you. You have mentally lost the game already.

kranny 9 years, 4 months ago

When I see an opposing running back take a pitch from the I formation and beat a D-end, OLB, and a corner-back around the end all the way to the sideline and still gain 10 yards, I'd say yes we don't have the athletes. When I see that our QB has been sacked 14 times in 4 games then yes I'd say we don't have the athletes. That's why Gill is going after linemen. He knows we can't complete with what we have. Mangino wasn't a bad recruiter. He simply didn't recruit linemen. He developed them from within. That's why KU started sliding after the Orange Bowl year. Collins was a beast but left early. That's why Reesing was pissed at him. Reesing had to start throwing on the run. That was big for protecting Reesing's backside. Gill will get it going. It will take 2 years. If Mangino was still here, we'd still be in the same boat. We have decent skill positions. We simply need big linemen who started out big and not fed Big Macs to get them big.

hawk316 9 years, 4 months ago

"It didn’t in any way feel like just one game. It felt like a college football program on the rise mauling one on the decline. It left no room for ambiguity. Baylor football sits at one level, Kansas University football another."

True, the two programs are currently at different levels. True, after such a game an observer might "feel" that the two programs are going in opposite directions. But I believe that this would be the wrong conclusion. It is unfair and inaccurate to judge the direction of KU's program based on one lopsided loss. What about all the terrible, embarrassing losses suffered by the Hawks during Mark Mangino's first year? In what direction was the program going then? It certainly didn't "feel" like an Orange Bowl title was in their future. This is only Turner Gill's fifth game of his first year. Give him time.

Although it may "feel" like these two programs are moving in opposite directions, I am convinced that in reality they are moving in the same direction.

troutsee 9 years, 4 months ago

If you don't have speed, you better be damn sure that players are where they are supposed to be. Reed and company did not have speed but the D played together that year. Is that coaching? Heck, I don't know. I continue to feel that these coaches need more time to bring in talent, evaluate what they have, and game plan accordingly. One thing I am positive of, it is far too early to judge this coaching staff. Here's hoping we win a few more games this year, but this optimist remains pessimistic based on what I have seen over the last two years. The talent ain't there, especially in the front 7 on defense. Mangino seemed to zero his recruiting on skilled players and D-backs. Hence, the glaring deficiencies in the front 7 on defense and the O-line on offense.

yovoy 9 years, 4 months ago

omari1911, good point. There are lots of good points made by most posters on this thread. The opinions had me going back and forth on my own opinions.

I was telling my watchmates that the score was going 50 to 3 about 5 minutes in. What I was thinking about yesterday is what Keegan wrote about today. It also reminded me of his article about names and numbers that he wrote the day before. Just because it says 'Baylor' or whatever on the front doesn't matter anymore. This is not your Father's Baylor, nor the Baylor you remember from your younger days. Granted, we'd like to think that this isn't the KU that your Father had to endure, nor the KU you remember from your younger days. Baylor is IN TX, they have an inventive coach that can recruit the state, they have a QB that's a freak athlete, and they seem to have added some players that are great athletes as well. They should be on the rise! Still we shouldn't be getting waxed by them like we did.

Mangino left most of what he had, and from the looks of it he really didn't have much beyond a few players.

I believe that there are lots of reasons there's such a strong reaction to the way we've started under HCTG. I won't bother to list them all (hint, hint). Many of us have been here before. We've sat in freezing weather, through the whole game while watching our team be undressed by better coaching of better athletes. I don't really believe that entirely: good athletes can make a decent coach look great, and sub-par athletes can make a good coach look terrible. We've seen players asleep on the bench. Basically we've seen our team be unable to compete. I don't intend to give up on the coach until the end the season-after-next. He should have his players in his system by then. If we don't have things fixed by then, then by all means, he should be thanked and shown the door.

HawkInAL 9 years, 4 months ago

September 11, 2010-

Baylor 34 Buffalo 6

If Turner Gill was able to recruit the states of Texas and Florida while at Buffalo, there's no reason to think he can't be even more successful with increasing the talent level at KU. Put down the tainted KoolAid and hang on for a roller-coaster season. Fan up and grow some stones. Wear your KU shirt tomorrow and let people know that there is still room on the bandwagon.

redlegger 9 years, 4 months ago

Wow, did you see the way Florida was blown out by Alabama 31-6? That's ABSOLUTE PROOF (IRREFUTABLE) that Urban Meyer is the worst Coach ever. If I was a Gator fan I would be asking for his head! Oh, and be thankful Jayhawk Nation that we didn't end up with that worthless p-o-s Jim Harbaugh - he "coached" his team to a 52-31 loss to Oregon after leading 21-3, simply pathetic. Finally, let's not forget that big o' loser Tommy Tuberville, who inherited Mike Leach's high-powered offense, only to squander it on a 52-38 loss to Iowa State!

That was fun - now I know what it is to be a fan!

Omari Miller 9 years, 4 months ago

Right. That should sit well with the Sky-Is-Falling crowd that complains about how we didn't hire Tubberville... because he was so right for KU and we'd start winning immediately. Sometimes facts are inconvenient.

danette8084 9 years, 4 months ago

Keegan B.S.

What football turnip truck has he fallen from.

Mike Nicco 9 years, 4 months ago

Talent: Does anybody know the rankings of Allen’s recruiting classes vs. Mangino’s?

Discipline: How about comparing penalties of Mangino’s first team vs. Gill’s.

Execution: That's all we hear from Gill. How do measure this? Is it the scheme's fault? Does the scheme maximize the players strengths? Is it the players?

Emotional Investment: How do measure a players heart? How do you measure this team's effort vs. Mangino's first team. I remember everybody being impressed with how hard that 2-10 team played.

mtdewjunkie 9 years, 4 months ago

still looking for terry allen rankings... from 02-09ku ranked between 47th(06) & 78th(02 & 07) according to rivals only lists the top 50 classes nationaly, which sadly doesent include ku most of the time... the big 12 rankings from 02-09 have ku 11-7-11-10-7-9-9-5 (11th in 02... 5th in 09) if anyone knows how to find ranking from the 90s post it here. id like to see those. (it might be that the rankings services only started with the expansion of the internet around the time mangino took over so rivals and might not have existed then.

Jim Williamson 9 years, 4 months ago

All I know is, if I hear Gill say one more time, "It takes time," I'm going to punch a baby.

Tom McPhillips 9 years, 4 months ago

What do you people expect?? Coach Gill has a long way to go...

Mangino had coached on a "National Championship" team and tried to bring that to Kansas, winning a BCS bowl game in the process with great coaching and some good players. He was run out of town because of a few narcissistic whiner sissy boys who didnt like being yelled and cursed at.

Like I said, coach Gill has a long way to go to reach that level so be prepared for a decade of mediocrity with a few highs sprinkled in with all the lows....

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