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Originally published May 7, 2010 at 06:28p.m., updated May 7, 2010 at 06:45p.m.

Conner Teahan to stick with basketball at KU

Junior guard won't be playing for football team in fall

Kansas guard Conner Teahan gets up for a pass over Pittsburg State guard Spencer Magana (2) but can't hang on during the first half Tuesday, Nov. 10, 2009 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas guard Conner Teahan gets up for a pass over Pittsburg State guard Spencer Magana (2) but can't hang on during the first half Tuesday, Nov. 10, 2009 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Teahan has bowed out of his quest to be on the KU football team and thanked Coach Turner Gill for the opportunity.

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Kansas University junior basketball guard Conner Teahan, who participated in spring drills with the Jayhawk football team, has decided to play basketball only during his senior season at KU.

“Conner told me today he’s not going to play football and will be a full-time basketball player,” KU basketball coach Bill Self said on Friday.

“I do think he owed it to himself to give it a chance. For him to play quarterback at this level, he felt he was several years behind the other guys (at QB). He liked coach (Turner) Gill, the players and coach Gill’s staff. He visited with coach Gill and thanked him for the opportunity.”

Teahan was a football/basketball standout at Kansas City Rockhurst High who declined a football scholarship offer from Tulsa to walk-on KU’s hoops team.

He completed one of two passes for 10 yards in KU’s spring game on April 24. Last season, he averaged 3.9 minutes while playing in 19 games for the 33-3 Jayhawks. He scored 20 points and dished six assists against four turnovers.

"It was a great experience and I appreciate coach Gill and the rest of the coaches and players for giving me the opportunity,” Teahan said. “I wish the football team the best of luck next season and I will continue to support them.”

Comments

jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

Part II

But in the age of XTReme Muscle Ball, the intensity of allowed physical contact can literally stop the transition game with pushing, tripping, punching, blocking, and hacking. It can slow down the outlet pass. It can slow down the pace down the floor. It can force people out of the three lanes down the floor. And most importantly, the fouling can drastically reduce the high percentage shot on a fast break to a low percentage shot. During the long stretches of the middle of the halves, the times when the Rush era teams would inevitably break out and run for 3-5 minute stretches, possession ball prevails instead today. Consequently, SelfBall cannot create the separations it once so consistently did. not because of lesser material, but because of greater physical contact allowed by referees taking away those up-tempo spurts.

Can Self figure out a way to run and separate in this sort of physical environment?

If anyone could, he could.

I am on record as saying he is a kind of genius, already.

But I don't see any way and I don't believe he does either.

I believe he knows he had the best talent this past season, and he did a great coaching job, and his players, except for Ty played near their potentials, given what defenses were doing to them. He knows that he went 33-3, but got out muscled on an off shooting night in the Madness. He knows he could have won that Northern Iowa game 9 times out of 10, because 9 times out of 10 KU shoots 35% or better from trey and wins.

But he also knows that Mike K and Duke won under the same circumstances, with much less talent, by cheap shotting, instead of playing XTReme Muscle. Duke just did not have the bodies to play XTReme Muscle. They had to cheap shot and Mike K has always coached cheap shotting, so it was a rational move on his part.

Self has three choices:

a) invent a way to run in this enviornment;

b) go XTReme Muscle in bulking up; or

c) coach cheap shottiing the way Mike K, Bob Knight, and Lute Olson always have done.

I don't see how he can invent a running game in this environment.

He has a fabulous weight coach in Hudy.

XTReme Muscle ball is a lot less unethical than cheap shotting.

Self has always seemed to choose the least unethical path.

I can't see him coaching cheap shotting, like Mike K.

But I can't see him finding a way to run in this environment.

So: I can only see him bulking his players up and coaching XTReme Muscle the way Izzo does, but without the fists...which may come later, if the refs don't clean the game up, though I suspect he will jump to the NBA and take the money there, rather than coach fists in Division 1..

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

Part I

ralster,

Self apparently thinks a lot of Izzo's approach, because he has added a good deal of muscle ball to his game starting back in his time at Illinois.

Compare his Illinois teams to his Tulsa teams. Illinois was an order of magnitude rougher than his Tulsa teams, though I know I have only seen a few games of his Tulsa teams. But at Tulsa, he coached a lot of up-tempo, as nearly as I can recall.

At Illiniois, he began his migration to embrace play it anyway you want--mixing muscular possesion ball with up tempo.

When he came to KU, everyone expected him to get out and play up tempo.

What happened?

The first few years coaching a combination of Roy's boys and his new recruits, he said he just couldn't play up tempo. He had to play through Simien.

But by the time he had a team full of guys that could play up tempo--Rush's core group--the B12 had begun to get rougher, more like the Big 10. Knight and Barnes and Sadler and Sampson guarantied a cluster of bruising games. And Gillispie, who had learned the same lessons from Izzo, as Self had learned, instantly muscled TAM up.

During the years of Rush's core group, the fun of watching lay in trying to guess when KU was going to shake loose from the pounding half court game and then kick it into high gear in transition and run 10-20 points on a team.

But that was possible, because the referees then still limited contact sufficiently that one could actually move up tempo, when the opponent finally gave Self and KU the running game, by having to keep more guys around the offensive basket to rebound, than to release as safeties on defense to stop KU's formidable transition attack. When the opponent had to score, had to get offensive boards to get stick backs, when there were only one, or two safeties released to stop KU's running game, then Self unleashed his grey hounds and it was beautiful to watch.

Still, Self was not forcing tempo. He was taking what they gave him.

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Ralster Jayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Jaybate, I really like your points. Very compelling. Obviously, the foul-fest possession ballgames are less fun to watch than the 'balanced' type of game that to this point defines SelfBall: tough D, transition O, halfcourt O, depth. We do need to get back to more disruption, and we can get a few more transition breaks--maybe negating the foul-meisters somewhat?


Again, I wonder what Self thinks of all this Izzo+referee behavior, and just how far he tinkers with his/KU's basketball philosophy? I fully agree that in some games, you have to physically intimidate the opponent. I wonder how far a classy coach like Self will go in this regard. He preaches toughness, but behind closed doors, I wonder how he defines 'toughness' for his players.

I still have the feeling that if we played UNI 3 or 5 times--we win 2 or 4 times. Having just watched that entire game again, we lost that game because of poor shooting on mostly "open" look treys. Those shots were nicely assisted too. KU gave UNI that win.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

azalum,

LOL!

Virtually so. :-)

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azalum 3 years, 11 months ago

bate, you mean a transmitted disease?

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Ron Franklin 3 years, 11 months ago

Jaybate,

I agree with your theory. I have wondered the same regarding the timing of fouls. I've thought about gathering the data, but my long days of watching taped behavior in a labs are over. I see no other way than sitting through game tape after game tape tallying fouls and marking the time at which they occurred, so I'll have to pass on proving the hypotheses true and go with my intuition. I'd also like to see a study showing what level of violence is considered a 'foul' across different conferences.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

Post Script:

I love it. Someone gave me a virus. I have arrived.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

ralster,

It does not happen to KU's benefit, because Self has not fully embraced XTReme Muscle ball yet. His philosophy of play you any way you want, requires that he retain the physical ability to play up tempo, or a possession game. To do this, he has chosen to keep his long and athletic players, but bulk them up somewhat, while also teaching them to play rougher. It is a little of this an a little of that approach. It worked great most of the season, because KU really did have a lot of talent, probably more than everyone else, certainly more experienced talent. But down the stretch, as the games got rougher and rougher, the most talented team in the country last season, kept having more and more closer and closer games. And it kept being drug down the same muscle ball, grind it out rat hole every time.

The thing is: if KU is going to drug down that same rat hold of possession and muscle ball, it might as well muscle up to the max. If it gets too bulky to run, then it can just use its muscle as MSU and WVU and Northern Iowa and so on did. It can get so physical that it turns any games against uptempo opponents into possession games.

To reiterate my hypothesis, based in part on my own experience as a little league, jr. high, and city league ref, and based on watching refs over the years, goes like this:

a) refs call some fouls early to establish control and let players know what kind of fouling will and will not be tolerated;

b) next, the refs stop calling most fouls and let the game unfold in the mid portion of each half, because the game establishes its own momentum of play that a ref gets in rhythm with himself (refs feel effective when their early coercion by calling fouls gives way shortly to their power, which is the players willingly complying to the level of contact the ref feels is appropriate;

c) refs call a few fouls down the stretch of each half, because coaches start applying pressure in time outs on players to make plays, to play tougher, and to close a gap, or hold a gap at the end of the half; fouls called late in halves are a reaction to the intensified competition and are intended to keep the game from getting too ragged going into half time.

I would like to see someone graph foul calls to see when most fouls occur to see if empirical data would support my hypothesis.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

Part III

Basically, what I am suggesting is that refs get desensitized to levels of contact and see contact in relative, not absolute terms through much of the spectrum of contact. If Coach A exposes a ref to 2x level of violence in early fouling, the ref will be satisfied with reducing it to 1x level of violence during the mid periods when the ref wants to "let'em play" to fit time constraints. But if Coach A exposes the ref to a 4x level of contact in early fouling, the ref will be satisfied with reducing contact to a 2x level during the mid periods, when the ref wants to "let'em play."

Izzo is a master of this. He is committed to it every year now. He plays 9 man teams of guys massively muscled up. He doesn't even care if most of his players can score.

Izzo starts out with intense, threatening, physical aggression early, because he knows the fouls are going to be called no matter what early in the game, so if one fouls big time early, say even throwing elbows and fists, as MSU players do when facing a tough opponent, but definitely really severe pushing and bodying even against lesser opponents, then when he scales down the intensity of fouling in the whistle-swallowed mid stretches of the half his team will be able to get away with much more contact. This contract directly discounts the value of opposing teams long and athletic scorers and turns games into possession games whenever he thinks a slow pace and smash mouth is the way to win. The last three minutes of each half, basically Izzo plays it straight, if he's ahead in order to minimize fouling, or if he has some fouls to give and is behind, tells his guys to seriously unload on players, because the refs are likely to call fouls anyway the last 3 minutes.

Refs are control freaks as surely as coaches are.

Refs don't like to go into half times without feeling they have regained control of the game the last few minutes and set a tone for the second half they will reinforce with just a few more calls.

Coaches know this.

Their is an escalating dynamic to this over time. There is a competition in a two player game between coaches to see how much of an advantage one can gain with intensifying contact. Until the university presidents and NCAA leadership demand the game be cleaned up, it just keeps getting worse, the players just keep getting more and more brawny, and the game slows down more and more and lower scoring prevails more and more in games late in the season, especially during the Madness.

Basically, a XTReme Muscle can slow down an up-tempo team a lot more in a fouling free-for-all, than an uptempo team can speed up an XTReme Muscle team in a fouling free-for-all.

Advantage: XTReme Muscle.

He not busy getting bulk is busy dying...until the game is cleaned up.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

Part II

My related hypothesis is that in televised games, the pressure to stay a few minutes plus or minus within the time slot allowed, causes refs to call a few fouls very quickly in hopes of establishing control quickly, then calling even fewer fouls during a longer middle portion of each half, so as to shorten the game as much as possible before the last 3 minutes of each half, Refs know that during the last three minutes of each half coaches will intervene strategically with Time Outs and with fouling and so on, so the ref wants to build as big of a time cushion as possible before the fouling and Time Outs begin dragging out the game the last three minutes.

Now for the third related hypothesis, which involves coaching behavior given the above tendencies of referees.

At the D1 level, in televised games, given the above equilibrium strategies of referees, I hypothesize that coaches, based on rational expectations formed from refs having behaved this way in the past, get into a two-player game with each other. Each is trying to top the other by having his players foul hardest early to try to intimidate the other team, because they know some fouls are going to be called early regardless. Some coaches tend to be more aggressive early, especially if they have a lot of depth--say, 9-10 players instead of only 7-8.

Over time, coaches learn from prior experiences that they either had their teams foul too hard, or not hard enough in the early going.

Over time, coaches with more depth and muscle know that fouling early, often and hard, is a great way to: a) intimidate the opponent; and b) condition the ref to feel he has succeeded in bringing the game under control from a very high, almost threatening level of early physical contact, to scale of contact that less intense, but vastly higher than he would have accepted had the early fouling been gentlemanly and light.

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actorman 3 years, 11 months ago

Thanks rcjh, I'll give it a try.

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Ralster Jayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Phogfan, The quality of Div1 football 2nd & 3rd stringers is almost universally a big drop-off from the starters...a problem for most programs (including KU). Unless you are the rare program like OU, TX, etc...where the backups are starter-quality. Unless Gill's philosophy can recruit "his" type of player in abundance, I wonder when that kind of football depth (across most positions) will come to KU...

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Ralster Jayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Jaybate, The main problem I have with the "refs swallowing their whistles, resulting in muscleball" paradigm shift is that it sure doesnt seem to happen for KU's benefit--unless you want to hypothesize this is another anti-KU bias? (Could be, Im not trying to sound facetious here). Just how many times all season long did we see MkM, McM, TRob, Cole, Sherron get called for strange, quick fouls? The imbalance sufferred by Reed vs. UNI is still burned in my brain. So is it muscleball, or uneven officiating? I recall you have postulated that Izzo, et al. come out so intense in their hacking, that unless refs are willing to butcher the TV timeslot by calling every rulebook foul, that the less-brutal fouls are given a "pass". So this brings the next question: How close is SelfBall, emulating the hack&slap? (That the 08 guys used effectively like it was used on them in 07). How much do we need to tinker to get on the same 'rough' page? Or is it just mental mindset, coupled with a in-the-ballpark physical size (which I believe we already have)?

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Ralster Jayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Of course, all the above begs the main question: What does Self think of the whole "muscleball" thing? How does he see his 'Hawks in that context? We already see the integral Hudy involvement, as well as Self routinely on the "toughness" bandwagon (calling players "soft"...).

Lets boil this concept (muscled-up weight vs. mental toughness) down to a simple game of 1on1 halfcourt...Xavier Henry vs. Mario Little. Who wins that one? Consider all parameters...as best as you can determine. I have my own hunch.

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Ralster Jayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Jaybate, Great replies, with much food for thought. Regarding Little intentionally losing 5 lbs "to be faster"--I wonder if this was done by design, either his own ("be like Mike..."), or by order-from-above, to be quicker on D? And to the hoop? He has said he is about the only one who can guard Marcus and stay with him--which is curious, since Ive seen TRob move his feet well defensively? Could be that Marcus and TRob were on the same squad thus unable to guard each other? Who knows...


My point about the mental toughness is that there are same-weight players who vary by mental tenacity/personality, and thus have varying success with physicality on the Div1 hardwood. Consider the difference between 205 lb Sherron and 220 lb Xavier. Sherron even as a frosh was a fearless penetrator, not afraid of contact. That mental/personality difference is why he was the 'spark'. Xavier @ 220 (Hudy-ized already), but did not show bangability. Detractors saw it on film and the word on X was you could push him around, and he would just settle for treys...despite being 220lbs. His lack of aggressiveness actually hurt us, at times causing Sherron to have to revert the Hawks back to last year's 2man team, except now Cole was sick & doubleteamed...

Regarding Little: What little evidence we have on his mental fortitude is he wasnt afraid to bang while at 80%, and got some double-digit outings...With him at 100%, it only begs the question: what will he add to our physicality (gotta be better than X?). We also know the Juco gamestyle is pretty brutal, as a general rule. I think Little is equipped with the software (&hardware) needed. We shall see...

Regarding Releford: Always a very smooth, quick slasher...I wonder how well his game is rounded out now? Self thinks he will be a "+1000pt scorer for KU". Cant wait to see Travis play.

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Jim Williamson 3 years, 11 months ago

It should be noted now that this very well could be a long season, but not so much because of Gill. Mangino has left the cupboard nearly as thin on the defensive side of the ball as it was in year two or three of his tenure. The starters are good players, but one or two injuries and the Jayhawks are screwed on that side of the ball.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

Note: I tried it without nesting, i.e., using sub reply and it did not work. No operator error.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

  1. Mental toughness has always been crucial in basketball, but it once depended more on competitive greatness as one approached exhaustion, than who could stand up to the most physical intimidation. Now, mental toughness has to include who can stand up to the most physical intimidation. The basic difference between Tyshawn Taylor and Tyrel Reed last season, outside of Ty's superior quickness and Tyrel's literally fabulous trey shooting, was Tyrel's mental toughness that allowed him to perform well even when the XTReme Muscle started in February. Ty just never did want to mix it up physically and when he started trying to do so down the stretch after a season of mind games by Self to make him do so, much of his game folded, even as his defense improved from mixing it up a little more. Tyshawn is already strong. He is cut and no doubt benches and leg presses quite well before his Hudy treatment. But he has got enough bulk to stand his ground when they start bodying him. He's just too light. Tyshawn at 200-205 pounds, with a solidness of build like RR had his last season, would probably become fabulously better than Tyrel in most ways except shooting. Ty bulking up might even improve his shooting, simply because getting bigger and stronger has a tremendous placebo affect in confidence. No one likes getting pushed around. It is bad for your self-esteem and self-confidence. Every time Ty went to the rim and had to fade away, a little piece of his swagger was chipped away. And worse, every time he faded away, it was recorded on game tape the other teams watched, and every game the opponents grew more and more convinced he was just a lightening fast wimp they could muscle. The more I think about it, the more I believe that the only thing standing between Tyshawn Taylor and stellar season and quick jump to the pros is a 15-20 pounds and 500 treys a day.
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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

  1. You might be right that bulking up would hurt trey accuracy, but I doubt it. Among last season's players, Tyrel getting bigger and stronger over his previous season did not seem to hurt him, Tyshawn and Brady did not get bigger and stronger (Ty played U ball, and Brady worked on endurance) and their accuracies deteriorated. I can't say what happened to Teahan's shot. Sherron did not seem to bulk up much and his trey average went down also. Kieff bulked up in a big way and his trey improved sharply. Xavier came in all musclely and with an NBA body, and had a fine shooting year. From my own personal experience way back in the dark ages, the best thing I ever did with my jump shot was to do a lot of weight lifting with my arms. It hugely increased my range, so that I could shoot at least 2-3 feet farther out, and shoot much more accurately at the previous year's maximum distance of 2-3 further in. I am a believer that weight lifting and added weight trigtger net positive effects for all technical aspects of basketball. The negative from weight lifting and weight gain, as we saw last season, is decreased endurance and some times less flexibility and grace in transition. But in an age when no foul calling and rough play prevail the last two months of the season, and when XTreme Muscle Ball can get away with turning most games into possession games, where trey shooting (and FT shooting down the stretch of games, when fouls maybe called), there is no significant disadvantage to bulking up, except for loss of endurance. But that is not a bad trade-off when referees will allow bulked-up palookas neuter an opponent's long and athletic stars for extended periods, so that you can rest up your own bulked up stars.

  2. The minute I read that about Little losing 5 I feared for Little and KU. His quickness can only beat bulked up palookas, and cheap shotters like Duke, if they are not allowed to foul him to slow down his quickness. If they are allowed to foul him to slow down his quickness, then he is just going to be 5 pounds easier to push out of his cuts. Bench pressing strength, and all sorts of upper body strength building, are a great thing. They allow you to shoot the trey from farther out. They allow you to take the ball up stronger to the rim with your arms. They allow you to hold onto, or rip a rebound away, from a weaker player. But in XTReme Muscle Ball, where pushing and shoving and bodying are the norm, less weight just means that many more opponents that will be able to push you away from the rebound, before you can apply your superior upper body strength to rip it down. Similarly, less weight means that many more opponents that will be able to push you out of your cuts to the rim, before you get to use your superior upper body strength to finish, or deny you your post up position on the blocks, before you can pivot and use your superior upper body strength to finish around the basket.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

Dear ralster,

So many pertinent and perspicacious comments in reply.

  1. I agree that nested replies lessen the quality and organic evolution of a thread in my posting experience. The absence of them was one of the things that appealed to me so much about KUSports.com until now. I would much prefer not to have the nested thread breaking up the lively, surprising, and sinuous communal flow of a thread. By breaking down chronology with nesting, nested replies tend to break down the momentum and development oof the thread and so Balkanize it, so that it does not take on so much of a life of its own. Nested threads balkanize the thread into a bunch smaller branching threads between smaller, and smaller groups of persons. I prefer the thread simply unfolding one after the other, so one can easily get a feel for how the thread is evolving over time. Time is of the essence in contracts, and in threads. :-) I would certainly vote with you to remove the sub-reply button that nests posts.

  2. I ran into the problem of jumbled posts, because I did try to do exactly as you suggested; that is, post them one after another, rather than nesting them one after the other. When I nest them using sub-reply, they appear in order, though the indentions seems kind of stupid. Perhaps it is operator error. But I have tried a few times to check for that and have found none so far. For your satisfaction, I will try to resume posting without nesting and see if I can keep them in order with more care. If I fail, it will be apparent.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

Cole, at 260, just could not hold his own against 280-290 pounders. Little at 210 will not be able to hold his own against 225 pounders, probably once February starts, certainly once March does. The game is no longer called as it was in 2008. when KU could get away with up and under defense by short, lean, quick guys on tall lean guys. Everyone at least has to be as solid as RR became. You have to have weight and strength, now, especially at the 3.

  1. I am glad you bring up Kobe and MJ. If you have Superstar skills in the NBA, you will be protected and so you do not have to bulk up to stand up to the fouling. The NBA has always had a two-tiered fouling standard: one where stars are largely protected and fouls are called even when they do not occur; and one where the non-stars are fouled at will without calls. Each team tends to be allowed one or two protected players. And among those protected players, a few true superstars are literally allowed to do anything they want including walking, double dribbling, flagrant fouling, etc., without being fouled beyond their ability to perform. The two-tiered fouling system is so strong that stars can be almost puny in the NBA, if they have great enough offensive talents. The NBA refs will protect them enough to do their crowd pleasing acts. Steve Nash, were he to come along today in D1, very well might not show well enough in D1 to get drafted into the NBA in the first place.Nash's game requires room to operate. This past season's Elite Eight teams simply would have given him the room free of body contact in which to operate. They would have held him, pushed him, tripped him, and bodied him, and hacked him and the refs would not have protected him. It may not be far off, but right now the NCAA refs still let everyone foul. They only seem to favor certain marquis teams, not marquis players. This is probably because the marquis players tend to jump so quickly. Stars don't stay long enough for a star system of protective foul calling to emerge in the NCAA.
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azalum 3 years, 11 months ago

why did nobody read between the lines. if mangino has the season he should of last year and gets us into a new years day bowl or bcs game again it's us jumping ship to the big 10 and ca-ching! but nope. . .

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rcjh22 3 years, 11 months ago

This is random but Big Ten has extended an offer to Missery and Nebraska to join the conference. They say Missery is a for sure yes

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Ralster Jayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

My suggestion regarding the sub-replies not showing: Dont "sub-reply". Just post a new response addressed to the person you want (like we always did). That way everyone can always read all the replies. I like reading the responses and seeing the debates, but its real tedious to click on the minimized responses--I frankly have not been doing it, unless Im really interested in a particular response.

Site would be better yet, IMHO, if the responses did NOT minimize. You could see at a glance everyone's response to a particular post. Current set-up hinders what it was intended to enhance.

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Ralster Jayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Extremely important is the concept of mental toughness, intertwined with a well-practiced, well-rounded skillset. Consider the often-compared 6'6"Kobe Bryant and 6'6" Michael Jordan. Both were within 5-7lbs of each other, I think--about 210lbs for MJ. But one is known as a ultimate finesse player (capable of scoring 30+ easily), while the other was known for a more physical style of play (at the same ages, for comparisons sake) while still able to score 30+. Jordan could bang. Kobe less so. Of course, Jordan famously hit the weights to combat the "toll" on his body all this banging was causing; ie, he still wished to bang--more effectively. Physicality aside, Kobe wins the award for skillset "most like Mike". LeBron is an apples/oranges comparison. He is a totally different beast.

Regarding KU ball, and our 2 wing players impatiently honing skills and hitting the weights with Ms.Hudy: Little and Releford. Little claims he "lost 5lbs to come down to 210 lbs in order to be even quicker"--yet is listed in Hudy's list of the 300-lb benchlift club. What I am really curious about when we judge the future play of Little and Releford (like we did with Rush and Xavier)--is what is the mental toughness/aggressiveness? From the same size pkg, that may make a difference in how they handle the NCAA-level of "muscle ball", as Jaybate puts it. Self forever preaches toughness--we shall see which players that mantra is closest to their own core persona (easiest for such players to execute & make it their 'own'). Again, I have high hopes for all our guys.

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Ralster Jayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Jaybate, With all the physical maturation and the supposed Hudy-ization the players undergo/will undergo/u-suggest-they-undergo, it is inevitable that a "touch" skill like 3pt-shooting will suffer for some portion of the trinitizers now-Hudy-ized. If/when they regain that touch remains to be seen. Connor's 3pt touch has left him for the time being...(I remain hopeful).


Your comment about the athletic/lean players maybe not ready to battle the burlymen does bring up the quote from HudyHerself (i believe) who listed some key players who can already hit the 300lb benchmarck: McM, MkM, TRob, Little, TT, Releford, Reed, Morningstar. How well that translates onto the battlefield, er, hardwood--remains to be seen for each specific individual. I, of course, hold high hopes for the fast athletic types to also be tough enough to handle all that is required. I feel that is already built-in to what Self+Hudy are cultivating, physically and mentally. There are just some things the athletically gifted guys can do in the open court that the burly guys cannot...

But I am greedy: I want the fast athletes to be able to do it all. Play tough, play smart, finish strong, defend nasty, and at times finish spectacular. Every team will have its bangers, and its artisans, and players who can do both. Self pursues balance. Maybe we achieve a better balance of all of this in the coming season? I shall let go of the beloved 08 guys a bit, and simply let that abstract philosophy that they played with be the yardstick I use to judge the next Self team's progress. This is irrespective of if we won vs Memphis or not. I knew this was a special construct even when we lost to UCLA. You can lose any 1 game. But the underlying all-encompassing philosophy is stellar, and is intensely carrying on...RCJH!

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Randy Bombardier 3 years, 11 months ago

Jaybate, username = intelligent design, as in creationist. Hello, Jaybate?

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Tony Bandle 3 years, 11 months ago

azalum..awesome answer. Actually, an inflatible roof would not be out of the question from a technology standpoint. It's just that they are so God-awful ugly!!

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azalum 3 years, 11 months ago

i'm not on the gill wagon yet and frankly i just don't see this working out. how many players are we going to get from the swamps down south, compton, or the state of tx when they find out our coach is making everyone watch this at halftime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO73-WlOHhM so in regards for the dome just wait for a couple of years, we'll suck again, attendance will drop and we can build one of those practice bubbles to play our games in.

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Martin Rosenblum 3 years, 11 months ago

Question: How many BCS schools play in a dome as their home field?

The purists will die by their convictions that football is meant to be played on real grass and outdoors.

Baseball purists will argue the same, but are a dying breed (just like Robin Roberts who just passed away).

Basketball purists have no topic of discussion here.

Soccer purists.....well......who cares about them anyway.

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Tony Bandle 3 years, 11 months ago

Enclosing Memorial Stadium with a Buckminister Dome..hmmmmm..old Bucky would have loved it.

Honestly, it could be done but practically, to satisfy your vertical height clearance problems, you would have to set the ground diameter such that it would probably stretch halfway up the hill toward Templin, engulf the practice fields and pretty much wipe out half the housing to the North [which would not really be a big loss]

A more doable solution would be to build vertical curtain walls around the stadium and enclose the place with longspan girders and trusses. However the ambiance of the sport is somewhat compromised.

Trust me one this one...I am a St.Louis Rams season ticket holder and next to bad football, the worst thing you can have is a boring venue. I've had both for years.

Honestly, the best bet is ditch the track, lower the field and extend the seating.......and get some good players!! Winning forgives a multitude of sins!!

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

actorman,

No clue here.

When I click on the story headline, every reply and sub-reply appears in full.

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actorman 3 years, 11 months ago

Is anyone technically savvy enough to explain why I can't get most of the "sub-replies" to come up properly. I can see a little bit of the comment, but when I try to click on it to open up, all it does is refresh the page without changing anything. What would be even better than being able to open up the comments would be to change the settings so the full comments come up every time I open a page. Any ideas on how to do that?

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

inteldesign,

Shared wordiness, or not, the pithy question of course is: does your alias refer to "intelligent design," or "intelligence design"?

See how brief I can be? You will learn in due time that I am equally comfortable going long, or short.

:-)

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Jim Jackson 3 years, 11 months ago

I don't know if we'll be competing for a national championship in the near future, but a 9-3 8-4 season next year and moving forward is very plausible. The '08 and '09 class recruits we got from those 2 seasons that we won 20 games has a lot of speed and athleticism, and we had to beat out a lot of reputable programs like Nebraska, Texas AM, Michigan, Auburn etc. for some guys like Lubbock Smith, Dexter Linton, Omigie, Kevin Young, Mcgriff, etc

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

"Sunday and Thoughts of Doming Memorial Stadium:"

Devilhawk,

Thanks for that analysis. You made a much better case than I did.

There would,of course, be an enormous fight over the aesthetics of doing such a thing. It makes so much practical sense that in the present climate, it would seem virtually impossible to achieve. :-)

Nevertheless, in the spirit of optimism and reason, there are at least two feasible ways to go IMHO.

Follow Renzo Piano's lead at the California Academy of Sciences building in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco, where Piano created a magnificiently transparent glass skinned enclosure around parts of the former building with all manner of structures within it. Piano gave the CalAcad building classic rectilinear cubic form with horizontal massing fused with the glass transparency of a 19th Century exposition hall, like a Chrystal Palace. It has a flat roof with several small domic bubbles on top for light and air management. It is one of the world's great buildings to have been built in the last 20 years. It is an exercise in green building that would have to be hugely adapted to fit in the continental climate of Kansas, but Piano has said he meant the building as an indication to others of what can be done anywhere when one sets about harnessing the evironment itself to serve one, rather than fighting against that environment substituting an entirely contrived one. Traditionalists would probably prefer the look of this sort of design to the other I am about to describe.

Personally, I favor a similar green conceit in approach, but with a largely out of favor form.

I prefer a neo Fuller Dome. a modernist restoration if you will. :-)

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KUfball 3 years, 11 months ago

Conner never got a real chance from Coach Gill. I like Coach Gill and am excited for the future but the fact that he never really gave Conner any sort of chance chaps me a little bit. He gave Conner 15% of the reps that he gave Pick and Webb and in those few reps Conner performed well. Its a shame a greater chance on Conner wasn't taken. For a team with a large question mark at QB it shouldn't hurt to take that chance. Rock Chalk Jayhawk, I'll be there in the fall in full force!

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Edward Daub 3 years, 11 months ago

I like Conner, I like him alot. However, I don't see how he will earn significant PT on a loaded KU basketball team. As for Gill, I think he is the greatest. To have the guts to move to Buffalo, and circle the wagons with the SUNY Buffalo Bulls!

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Randy Bombardier 3 years, 11 months ago

Wow, thought I was wordy. Jaybate, you get the award, whatever it is. As far as some of the opinions:

  1. 2007 was a dream season. 12-1 is something KU has never done before and something Bill Snyder, as much as I respect him, has not done. Kudos to the staff, including Mark Mangino, for this legacy.
  2. The 2008 and 2009 seasons were terribly disappointing considering the talent we had. I have always thought that a big part of this was the loss of Bill Young and MM's promotion of Bowen. I also think there was too much pressure being generated and that MM's way of doing things with personnel began to become counter-productive.
  3. I think there IS the possibility that Reesing may have been undermining MM during their last year together. This is pure speculation, but from some things I have read, not too far-fetched. I think there was a bit of a mutiny by some players. I believe that Lew Perkins gave audience to some of this and probably would have done nothing IF the 2009 season did not end the way that it did. Consequenlty, I believe that some players also figured nothing would be done UNLESS it ended ugly. Perhaps, there was even some collusion from an assistant coach or two who tired of Mangino's tirades and his tendency to belittle people.
  4. Some MM antics were over the top and indeed an embarrassment to KU.
  5. The hiring of Turner Gill has very little to do with the above except that the Administration decided it wanted someone stable, who worked hard at football, yet kept it in the perspective of life. He was not an anti-Mangino as much as it was getting back to why we are all here. Someone who would not embarrass the university and someone who brings out the best in others as a coach should.
  6. If MM had stepped back after 2008 and taken stock of how he handles people and situations, had asked himself if he brings out the best in others or does he just demand the best, he would still be here and 2009 would have been much better.
  7. In the final analysis MM's drive to succeed was not catching on, was counter-productive, the program in disarray, and there was no hope for any change, so changes were made. Good-bye MM and the fond memories, but we must part company. Thank you for your service.
  8. Now we have class, a coach who brings out the best in others, who will win hearts, minds, and ball-games. We have someone who understands that he is a life-mentor and a life-coach as well as a football coach and will act in such a way as to be worth emulating. We are getting back to basics, making quality young student-athletes who give their best, on and off the field. I wouldn't trade it for five 12-1 seasons in a row.
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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

Bastiat said this about the evolution of the game of plunder in a society.

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it, and a moral code that glorifies it." ~ Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

It made me think of adapting it to the game of turning basketball violent.

"When thugging becomes a way of life for a group of men in a non-contact sport, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it, and a moral code that glorifies it."

~jaybate, XTReme Muscle Ball

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Tony Bandle 3 years, 11 months ago

Takes guts to chase a dream. Takes greater guts to know that it must stay a dream.

Conner, continue to be KU's next opponent's best three point shooter in practice. This will do more good than sitting at the end of the bench in Memorial Stadium.

To be concerned and worried about a new coach is understandible and justifiable. To criticize a new coach on his game performance prior to coaching even one game is: a. Irresponsible b. Irrational c. Laughable d. All of the above

Jaybate, my friend, your posts were becoming harder to decipher than Da Vinci's notes. I am glad you have discovered the secret of postal order. Since I have neither the mental might or digital durability to write a post more than one page, I will pass on obtaining this code. :}

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kranny 3 years, 11 months ago

I wouldn't necessarily say Gill couldn't throw for squat. He had Irving Fryar to throw to for 3 years and completed 54 % of his passes for 3,317 yds with 34 TDs against 11 ints. He also rushed for 1600 yards in his career. And this was during a time when passing in the Big 8 went over like a turd in a punch bowl. I think Gill understands what kind of quarterback wins games in college football. You have to be mobile and not one dimensional unless you have a line like OU or FU. Sam Bradford will sidelined after 2 games with a concussion because he is about as mobile as a duck on ice. I think he'll get the most out of his players. I also think he'll inspire instead of leading through fear. I have no idea how this is going to pan out but Jayhawk nation needs to be patient for 2 seasons. I look to forward to the future of KU football with cautious optimism.

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ldjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

I would love for Conner to get the remaining scholarship for the next season.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

Post Script: Nope, I haven't got it quite yet, but getting close. The key is: every segment has to be posted as a reply to the prior segment. :-)

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

Exhibition War Games--Crushing hopelessly out-weaponed Ft. Hays and Pittsburg States by a combined margin of 143 points, and playing a lot of up-tempo to keep the fans entertained, while watching to see which of the new guys commits TOs and so must be put on the suspect list immeditately, General Self about how hard the new guys are working and about leadership from the returnees.

November Skirmishes, Up-Tempo Diversions and an Early D1 Engagement: While the real invasion force practices in top secret, closed door practices, and is drilled in XTReme strategy, tactics and weapons mastery, the new LAAs aka "long and athletic" guys (read: not yet strong and heavy enough to play D1) are formed into highly mobile, up-tempo attack teams and ordered to blitz out-weaponed cupcakes in between limited engagments with actual D1 enemies. Fans rave about the new up-tempo style and how KU's new LOAs have the weaponized "athleticism" needed to blitz opponents. In fact, the LAAs are being sorted for those who cough up TOs, can't defend, and can't shoot the trey even against cupcake militias, and the one, or two, that, with a ton of work, might have the toughness to survive intense D1 combat operations planned after January1. Fan's irrational exuberance about the up-tempo strategy is tempered by the fact that one, or two, times a true D1 opponent is engaged, tempo slows considerably, while General Self alternately tests playing through the mobile strike force perimeter players and then the heavily armored tanks on the low blocks, in order to find out which player-soldiers can hold up under sustained some low-grade, but sustained physical combat on both offense and defense against hostile forces.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

"Its Saturday and the Oilcos Are Blowing Up Oil Rigs Again, So Let's Look at Basketball Season as a Military Campaign:"

October 15-December 1st:

Late Night--Irrational exuberance manifests based on some new faces playing grab with some old ones and making a few buckets in site of banners.

Boot Camp--Lifers, new recruits and OAD special ops show up after lifting all off-season and get crash course in preparation for the last war (army's are always prepared to fight the last war); i.e., based on the way the refs called the rules of land warfare on wood last season.

Practice Maneuvers Before First Exhibition War Games--General Self puffs about grunts who "could" compete for serious minutes, puffs about good drills in practices, puffs about wanting to play more up-tempo, and deftly curbs fans irrational exuberance by pointing out that KU lost 3 NBA first rounders, thus leaving reporters and fans to do the implied math: KU only added one potential first rounder: Josh Selby. Implicit message: we can be very good this season with Little and Releford to plug in, but come on, fans, we have just two possible NBA first round picks in Marcus Morris and Josh Selby, and so we haven't a prayer of going 33-3. Best we can hope for is to muscle up, go XTReme, get lucky on seeding, and get a hot hand for D-Day in March.

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

December's Stark Realizations: Training of core force continues in secret, while General Self pushes certain newbies and vets into the breach. Newbies needing toughening and soft veterans with special killing skills in short supply, are given baptism under fire the first two weeks of December in an attempt to determine, if even one of them can adapt to the violence of 10-20 minute combat hitches, while not coughing up TOs, playing sound on-ball defense, and at least adequate off-ball defense. It is also during this period where the newbies and soft vets are gauged for how they handle intimidation by opponents. Most crack and are relegated to rear echelon bench duty. Fans notice that up-tempo increasingly only occurs, when the opponent is full of green LAOs and an anomalous team of refs doesn't allow much physical contact. After these games, fans irrational exuberance about up-tempo style spikes off the meter, but General Self curbs that enthusiasm with talk about the bigs needing to man-up and block out to stop the opponent from running too much on KU. The last two weeks of December, the core attack force, the heavily armored, half-court occupation force is finally brought out several times against both possession hostiles and up-tempo hostiles and player-soldiers making few TOs, few defensive lapses, and showing a taste for the bodying of hand-2-hand combat of medium grade combat begin to be forged into a cohesive combat unit capable of both grinding out a half court occupation, and of occassional spurts of rapid transition attack. Fans irrational exuberance extinguishes Christmas as "get better" week punctuates the transition from the skirmish phase of the campaign to the grisly conference campaign, where opposing generals and opposing players-soldiers know each other well, and so surprise and unfamiliarity give way to familiarity and inevitability of known force colliding with known force.

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Kye Clark 3 years, 11 months ago

troutsee - good post. I agree that Turner deserves a chance. Some of these fans knocking the guy before he's even coached one game is ridiculous.

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troutsee 3 years, 11 months ago

I think it shows where the heart of KU fans lie when an untested and lightly regarded high school QB, who came to KU on a BB scholarship, gets the loudest ovation during the spring FB game. To turn the corner on FB, we are going to have to get over that mindset and support the FB progarm just as loudly and enthusiastically as we do the BB program. I wish Conner the best but it was expecting too much to come into FB program late and and expect to succeed. I wish him the best in BB.

Mangino is gone. Give Turner a chance. I am sure he will come through and take the KU FB program to new heights.

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azalum 3 years, 11 months ago

wrong! for the first 20 years of my life all i said was if ku can be slightly above .500 and compete that is as good as we can be. it was fun while it lasted. mangino and his spread offense is what got us there. who cares if he was a not a nice guy. now we have a guy that wants to run the ball a little more well "IT"S DIVISION 1 FOOTBALL, IT'S THE BIG 12" and ku doesn't have the horses to compete up front to play that style "IT AINT INTERMURALS"

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Kevin Studer 3 years, 11 months ago

Not sure I really buy the idea that this experiment will make Teahan a better basketball player...

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63Jayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

HighEliteMajor: I will NEVER long for the Mangino era. Coach Magino's behavior was embarrassing to the University and to it's fans and alumni. IMO, he was a terrible representative of of our university. One does not have to behave the way he did to be successful.

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Jack Wilson 3 years, 11 months ago

I have a feeling that in a couple of years we're going to be longing for the Mangino-era. Pure witch-hunt.

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KEITHMILES05 3 years, 11 months ago

Conner never had a chance at football. It was all glamor and glory with no substance.

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Mike Kendall 3 years, 11 months ago

azalum--- Glad you liked "The Waterboy." It was one of my favorite Sandler movies, too! Cudos to you, for telling it like it is.

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DSommersby 3 years, 11 months ago

Big time props to Conner for giving it a shot. That took a lot of guts to put yourself on the line and check it out.

He could have crashed after the long basketball season, but he decided to check out another dream he had and gave chase to it. He may not have seen it through the way he wanted but he did give it a try and I salute him for his guts. Hope he has a great summer getting ready to help the Basketball Hawks next season!

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azalum 3 years, 11 months ago

props to our football team for sucking so much that a basketball player that hasn't played in 3 years can consider trying out for the team. ku football http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHdZFppSZss

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Mike Kendall 3 years, 11 months ago

Good for Conner. I wish he would get his outside shooting back. Good luck, Conner, for the 2010-11 season.

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Andrew Moore 3 years, 11 months ago

You're not giving our offensive coordinator, Chuck Long, much say so with regards to who is the quarterback. He deserves some credit for his accomplishments coaching QBs (namely Josh Heupel) at Oklahoma. I don't think our offense will be what determines bowl or no bowl.

If we give up 35 points per game like last year, then its gonna be a bad year...

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jaybate 3 years, 11 months ago

A. Conner proves he is too smart to play football. Kudos, Conner. You'll be glad you did what you did when you are 45.

B. Conner went out and got some serious contact that ought to toughen him up for XTreme Muscle Ball.

C. If Conner gets Hudy-fied, and comes in at 235, and if he gets his confidence back on his trey, I still think he could get some muscle minutes. Conner could be the back-up muscle on the perimeter that this team is utterly lacking with all the long and athletic guys, who will need an enforcing fouler to come in for 3-5 minute stretches once the XTReme Muscle Ball starts in February, March and April. Everyone else on the perimeter of this team are slender types, skinny minnies, or long and athletic. Self absolutely could use a good trey shooting, designated fouler and high contact man on the perimeter, once schmucks like Mike K decide to cheap shot when four down. Frankly, Tyrel would be a great candidate for the job, but he's just not big enough. Conner has the combat chassis. Conner had the gun. All he needs is to commit add 15-20 pounds and Self has another piece of the puzzle in XTreme Muscle Ball come March. Once the fouling is not called in March and April, Conner's slow feet are not the least bit of a liability for 3-5 minute stretches. Hand checking, a la Butler, and actual aggressive fouling a la Duke would turn him into a serious weapon for Self. Go for it Conner. The muscles will make the women love you even more.

D. Turner Gill is a former option quarterback who couldn't really pass for squat, and now he's looking for the same kind of alter egoes as his quarterbacks in the age of the pass crazy offenses. It is going to be one heck of a long, bowl-less season for KU.

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