Saturday, March 27, 2010

KU’s Self to be CBS guest analyst during NCAA Tournament

Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self speaks with the media at a Selection Sunday news conference.

Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self speaks with the media at a Selection Sunday news conference.


Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self traveled to New York City on Friday night for his weekend stint as NCAA Tournament studio analyst for CBS.

“I’d rather be in St. Louis,” said Self, who, instead of coaching his Jayhawks in the NCAA Midwest Regional semifinals and finals, will join Greg Gumbel, Greg Anthony and Seth Davis in CBS’ Manhattan offices from 3:30 to 8 p.m., today, and 1 to 6 p.m., on Sunday.

“It will probably be good to watch some ball and throw my two cents in,” added Self. He will also serve as guest analyst for the network’s Final Four show on Saturday, April 3, (2-3:30 p.m.) from Indianapolis.

“The only way I’d be excited is if we were playing,” said Self, who added, “I like those guys a lot. They’ve been really good to me. When they asked me, I said to myself, ‘Do I want to do it?’ The answer was, ‘It potentially could help us (in exposure for recruiting).’ I am looking forward to seeing how it works on the other side.”

Jackson’s mom dies

Sources at Kansas University have confirmed that Shawn Jackson, the mother of former Kansas University power forward Darnell Jackson, has died. No details are yet available on possible services in Oklahoma City. Jackson, who was acquired by the Milwaukee Bucks on Thursday, headed back to OKC on Friday afternoon.

Recruiting is reporting that KU coaches will be in San Diego on Monday to check in on Angelo Chol, a 6-8, 195-pound junior forward from Herbert Hoover High School. Chol, who is’s No. 19-rated player in the Class of 2011, is considering KU, North Carolina, UConn, Florida and many others.

Collins in contest

Sherron Collins will participate in the three-point contest at next weekend’s Final Four in Indianapolis, ESPN reported Friday. Cal’s Jerome Randle, New Mexico’s Roman Martinez and Maryland’s Eric Hayes also are in the eight-player field, which will be completed next week.

The event takes place Thursday at the Indiana Convention Center and will be televised by ESPN from 8-10 p.m.


Chris Shaw 11 years, 10 months ago

A couple of observations from last nights games.

1) UNI-I don't think I have to say anything about "The Egg" that the Panthers layed last night. It is quite irritating isn't it? I mean, they put up 26 3 pointers against KU and they manage to only hit 4 of 16 last night. Let's not forget they shot 14 of 21 from the FT vs 16-19 against KU. It's simply unbelievable to me! Anyway, nothing we can do about it, but is it possible to put a "Choke" label on a mid-major?

2) Michigan State: I don't know what it is with Izzo, but it is simply unbelievable. I know his squads have had some lucky breaks in the past with brackets opening up for him, but this sentence sums everything up for Tom Izzo and Michigan State.

"Michigan State has been the monument of the bracket under Izzo: 13 straight NCAA tournaments, nine trips to the round of 16, seven to the regional finals, five Final Fours, a national title in 2000."

I don't know about the rest of you, but Izzo does more with less than about any coach in America. I mean, this guy loses Lucas and Allen and manages to pull out a 7 point win against a pretty darn good team. Not playing Michigan State last night irritates the ever living dickens out of me. Unreal!

3) Tennessee vs Ohio State: It was simply a great game and I was glad to see Ohio State. Because Tennessee just now go to their first Elite 8 ever, I am rooting for them to also get to their first Final 4 ever. I don't want to see 2 SEC schools in the Final 4, but I definitely don't want to see MSU in it.

4) Duke vs Purdue: I had to stop watching this game it was so ugly. My wife went to Purdue so I was rooting for Purdue, but they had no chance. It was just one great big tease.

5) Baylor vs who?: LOL! Samhan probably wouldn't like that comment, but Baylor absolutely killed St. Mary's. They looked awesome, but I fear Baylor could have a "Letdown" after such a dominating performance. You see it happen so many times. I hope Baylor wins and continue their hot streak.

Chris Shaw 11 years, 10 months ago

I am sorry to hear about Darnell's Mom. I wonder what the cause of death was. Very Sad!

Chris Shaw 11 years, 10 months ago

I have to admit, it will be good to see Sherron Collins one last time in a Kansas uniform. It's not great to see Kansas players participating in individual Final 4 activities because that means KU had a serious "Flameout". Nonetheless, I hope Collins can go out on a good note and win the 3 point contest.

BringBackNike 11 years, 10 months ago

hopefully selby is watching CBS this weekend!

Otownhawker 11 years, 10 months ago

Why isnt Tyrel in the three point contest. Oh wait, I know, he doesn't get the respect from everyone. He plays hard and does whatever the coach tells him to. That doesn't deserve anything, I forgot. Tyrel you are the man and you deserver a starting spot. You hit big shots, you play tough D and you respect the game of basketball.

Jayhawker35 11 years, 10 months ago

Only seniors compete in the three point and slam dunk contests. Hopefully Tyrel will never get to compete in it, because he's playing in the final four.

VegasJhawk09 11 years, 10 months ago

Good posts Kushaw. I am personally relieved that MSU beat N Iowa. Glad those guys finally choked. I cant really hate on Izzo and his team for going to the final four, we lost to them last year right where we were sposed to go out. This year, KU just didnt have the intangibles to make a deep run. Theyll be back without a doubt. I sincerely hope Sherron gets drafted in the first round, he deserves it. Im equally as sad for Darnell about his Mom. Thats very sad, tragic. I guess its bitter sweet to know that another team picked him up but Im glad that happened too.

docileboy 11 years, 10 months ago

I think Coach could use some help with his wardrobe.

JacquesMerde 11 years, 10 months ago

kushaw. You're right about Izzo. He is a motivator. Self needs to spend a bit of time with him. His teams can play with style or they can slug you to death. Whichever is needed, but they never let up.

Shawn Mansfield 11 years, 10 months ago

My thoughts and prayers go out to Darnell's family. His mom was a fighter and a good representative of KU.

KEITHMILES05 11 years, 10 months ago

Yeah, that plaid coat of Bill's is just awful. I can't believe his wife allows it in her home.

I'm puzzled Collins is in the 3 point shooting contest. I agree Tyrel would be much better choice.

Sympathy extended to Darnell and his brother and sister on the passing of their mother. Such tough situation he has had in his short lived life.

yates33333 11 years, 10 months ago

Amen rcjhawk. She was a fine lady who raised an outstanding son. God Bless the Jacksons.

JacquesMerde. I agree. Someone at KU needs to study motivation. Why such great players would play like zombies at times eludes me.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

yates & jacquesMerde - regarding motivation, I'm sorry but if players cannot get themselves motivated for a one-and-done, win-or-go home NCAA tournament game that's on the players, not the coach. You can make arguements that Self needs to alter his game plan or approach, but I'm not buying the motivation factor.

Martin Rosenblum 11 years, 10 months ago

Wouldn't a Baylor v K-State final game be great?

Some redemption would be produced for KU since we hasd success against them both, especially KSU, in our conference as well as our success against the entire Big 12. It could happen, you know. KY could overlook Baylor's intensity and be caught like several other upper seeds. I think KSU is better than MSU and is hungry for this season. A KSU v TN game would probably be one of the best of the whole tournament at this point with the dueling styles of Pearl and FM.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

memhawk - I don't think Kentucky would even have to overlook Baylor to get beat. Tennessee exposed Kentucky as being vulnerable to a zone defense, and they don't even play zone all the time. Baylor does, and does it well. I think it will take a good shooting effort from Dunn, they can't afford to have him go cold against a team as talented as Kentucky, but if he shoots well I think they can win. Of course, Baylor has to get past Duke and Kentucky has to get past a pretty rugged West Virginia team, who I picked to advance to the championship game (I see you had them in your Final Four as well).

Martin Rosenblum 11 years, 10 months ago


Nice of you to remember who the coach of the team at the #1 spot in the majority of the weekly polls this season was as well as the team who was the overall #1 seed in the tournament. Now KU followers will have a reason to watch basketball one last time this season.

Martin Rosenblum 11 years, 10 months ago


Hey Wichita dude, Duke didn't particularly look like the Duke teams that I remember at tournament time. If WVA did advance to the Game, interesting scenario if they played KSU. They would have to get that "Let's get ready to rumble" announcer!

Lone_salina_kufan 11 years, 10 months ago

Man, sometimes I'll bet Darnell has to wonder, "Why me?" He probably doesn't though, because he seemed to be one of the most selfless players maybe that KU has ever had.

Alec White 11 years, 10 months ago

I agree icthahawkfan...if you are on the consensus #1 team all year you should be ready to play every game. I don't blame Coach Self for any of our early flame-outs in the tourney. The whole senior year of Simien, Miles, and Langford was a downhill spiral that concluded with the Bucknell loss (those weren't Self recruited players anyway). The Bradley loss was due to complete inexperience from our whole roster. I don't understand the concept of the coach being responsible for the team's eagerness at tip-off. The coach can only prepare the team as best he can; it is up to the players to execute that game plan. And soobawls...are you going to give Self credit for preparing our players in 08' when we took the NC? If anyone watched his pregame speeches to our players at the Final 4 they wouldn't question Self's ability to put his team in the right mind-set. When will people realize we have a top 3 coach? I mean he took Tulsa to the Elite Eight! Tulsa!!!

tstanlick1909 11 years, 10 months ago

Notes from the St louis games last night.

UNI fans came by the truckload. Without a doubt the largest and loudest section, it was good to see some passion. Although they went down rather easily, I still respect them for the way that they took care of business against us.

Mich St and Ohio St's fan sections were dead!

I definitely see Tennessee coming out of the midwest based on what I saw yesterday. They're physical and athletic

okiedave 11 years, 10 months ago

Soobawls - I was asked to go and analyze but need to hang some molding in the bathroom. Probably the reason they asked HCBS to help with some color commentary.

lovemyhawks 11 years, 10 months ago

i was sickened to see uni play the way they did last nite....... they certainly did not get all the breaks they did when they played against us. they are still a good team but they were obviously really pushing to beat #1 more than they were playing last nite. darn it.... wish we had played them LAST nite. no, wish we had been playing michigan state last nite PLUS we could have looked forward to a possible rematch with tennessee too. oh well. hey, heard tyrel is hurt....... actually played hurt those 2 games in the tournament so he wouldn't have been in the 3 point contest anyway.

David Reed 11 years, 10 months ago

may god bring peace and understanding to Darnell and his family.

docileboy 11 years, 10 months ago

I hope coach Self doesn't get to rambling about when Lou Boudreau played for the Cleveland Indians or some other nonsensical BS. Oh wait a minute he is no Bob Knight.

klineisanazi 11 years, 10 months ago

Just what I didn't want to see. Collins participating in a 3 point contest and Coach Self taking the honorary Quin Snyder seat of network broadcast analysis.

swjhawk 11 years, 10 months ago

Our sympathies to Darnell Jackson and his family. This courageous young man is a product of his mom and family.

mphawk27 11 years, 10 months ago

That broke my heart for Darnell to hear about his mother. If anyone remembers the incredible speech he gave at Senior Night, especially when he told her "it's so hard because I wish I could take all of your pain, and put it inside me, so I love you", you have got to feel for this guy. After all the other people he lost over the last few years and everything he went through, it was just him and his mom growing up never having a father around. Now he was dropped by the Cavs and is dealing with moving to Milwaukee when he finds out about it. Now I wish I could take Darnell's pain away because if anybody deserves a break it's that guy. We love you Darnell!

jaybate 11 years, 10 months ago

et al,

March Sadness mash up at following link is extremely good. It reminds me that therapeutically speaking you have to go directly to the heart of the pain to heal. It worked for me. I came away with this: To play the game the right way is not the easy path in any walk of life, but it is the only true path to greatness. If KU had played the game the wrong way all these years, there would be more banners hanging in the rafters. But then KU would be like any other Maybach program and not a living myth extending from the games inventor to the present.

Bill Self is already out recruiting. The staff is out recruiting, too. Sherron is going to a three point contest. The players coming back are pumping iron, practicing treys and getting better.

Next began the second the buzzer went off.

Last one there is a Fizzou fan.

Rock Chalk!

Michael Auchard 11 years, 10 months ago

Well, this is kinda odd. Usually the coaches who do this sort of thing are lame (in every sense of the word) ducks, like Herm Edwards or Tom Brennan, that Vermont basketball coach that was on ESPN for awhile.

This might be the most talented coach/human being to ever do the guest coach spot. Still pretty annoying that he's doing this instead of coaching his team. Well, I suppose he's not happy about it, either.

jayhawkboogeyman 11 years, 10 months ago

How are you all saying UNI went down easily? They were tied 51-51 with a couple minutes left, and if an 84% season FT shooter hits them, 53-53 and a whole different ball game. They pushed MSU to the very brink, and MSU showed they have what we don't - a big, athletic ball-handling guard who can create and finish his own shot. Honestly I don't think we could have taken down MSU either.

yates33333 11 years, 10 months ago

If motivation is intrinsic, as it sometimes is, why do coaches use pep talks? Answer: Because motivation is also extrinsic. Thus cheering fans at a basketball game often encourage greater effort by players, as do coaches who replace players who make gross mistakes trying to encourage them to play better and harder, especially if the mistakes occur because of the lack of adequate effort. Further, pep talks are motivational tools hoping to encourage a greater effort.

If those who commented on the view expressed by Merde read this perhaps they will adjust their opinion. I agree with Merde's view that a better motivated team, either intrinsically or extrinsically, would have played UNI a better first half. I guess that is his opinion.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

CBS Commentator, prior to the Michigan St game: "Jim, the path the championship game really opened up for Kansas. The Spartans have lost Lucas, their top player and the #2 seed and without his explosiveness, can't come close to handling KU. Ohio St. just went down to Tennessee. All agree, no way the Hawks lose to a team twice in a year. Tennessee has reached their first elite eight. Few teams win in that first chance to go to the promised land. And on this side of the bracket, KU would face either Butler, who talent-wise, doesn't match up. If they were in the Final Four, as a mid-major, there would likely have the "glad to be here" factor. And the Hawks have owned K-State, speaking of glad to be here .. probably some psychological factors going into to that. The Wildcats don't want to play KU .. you know that. So the Jayhawks, in all liklihood, will be playing for their 2nd title in 3 years on April 5."

Just made me feel good to say that.

4jhawksforlife 11 years, 10 months ago

Thank God it was UN-BYE! I'm a Jayhawk from Iowa and I have been harassed all last week about UNI beating us. I just keep telling them wait till next year when it's a given that we will be in the tournament, and they will probably be sitting at home on the couch eating popcorn. Our team is still the best team in the nation, and I will always be a Rock Chalker from Iowa! Go Jayhawks! Good luck next year.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

I, for one, am a Wildcats fan (K-State, not Kentucky) the rest of the way. And Baylor, for that matter. But really a K-state fan.

KSU winning, getting to the final four, and heck, winning the national championship is great for Kansas basketball. It brings respect and attention. But most of all, that team deserves it. They play with character, they work hard, great kids, and they are a great reflection of our conference. Their fans, by and large, are the opposite of Missouri fans. My experience over many years has been good in dealing with KSU fans has been positive. Just a different tone than our rivals from MU.. Missouri fans, we most might agree, are just cut from a different cloth .. that old, dirty, smelly, low-class cloth that is used to make animal undergarments (I don't know if there is such a thing, but sounded good to me). The jealous cloth, the ... I'll stop now.

Anyway, go Wildcats .. you've got a KU fan in your corner. Hope there will be many in your corner.

YuCoJayHawk 11 years, 10 months ago

I'll bite....If you really don't know why cbs would want a coach as talented as Bill Self to help do analysis of the tment, I'll keep it quick and simple. 3 diff. teams to the elite 8, best winning % in KU history, coached the best team this year, and A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP just two years removed. I would think.....just guessing here.... Self has SOME credibility. Oh never mind sooballs, you're just looking for someone to argue with you about pressing, but you lack that which Self has most, credibility.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

And a question for Jayhawks fans. I posed this last week. Would you trade the 33-3 record, the conference title, the three wins over KSU, the two wins over MU, and getting zapped in round 2 .. basically our performance this season .. with either KSU's performance and position in the tournament or Baylor's? Understanding they both still have a shot at National Championship. I asked that last week, and had the "they've only advanced one round further", and "no way" responses, or "we could lose" in the sweet 16 and it isn't worth the trade. The "enjoy the ride" group. Now that KSU and Baylor are in the Elite Eight, any takers? The position today .. the chance for a NC.

The point is obvious. A run in March overshadows everything during the regular season. Everything. We say we are thankful for the regular season only because that is all we have.

Woody Cragg 11 years, 10 months ago

Good for recruiting and refocusing also. Some of you posters need to go soak your heads if you're still PO'ed at Self. We could still have Gomer Williams here bawling like a -itch for a week afterwards. Bill is a great guy who relates to young men at a level they trust and admire. Darnell has and will continue to lean on him, and will become a much better person because of it. When you're young and immature it's easy to have self pity and say why me. But life teaches us every day that there are tradgedies by the seconds and we all must face them from time to time. Rest assured that you are in the prayers of all those whose lives you have touched. Things change in the blink of an eyelash. "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain." (unknown) Please find peace and comfort in those that mean the most to you Mr. Jackson. God's speed.

Woody Cragg 11 years, 10 months ago

Gee, amazing how "everyone loves a winner". Spring has sprung & the weather is fair. Some people have something to say and some people just have to say something.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

Soobawls - if you think CBS should be asking some of the posters, why don't you send them your resume. I'm sure they'll all be REAL impressed with your credentials. Feel free to attach some of your posts (I'm sure they can all use a good laugh too!)

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 10 months ago

okiedave - that's some funny stuff. It made me think of what sourballs would sound and look like on national television sitting with Gumbel, Anthony and Davis... clearly CBS' loss.

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 10 months ago

HEM - I just noticed your bracket doesn't have KU winning a national championship,

not even making the final four. All the complaining you've been doing the past few

days about KU missing a great opportunity to win another title, complaining about

coaching, complaining about players and complaining about fans is really not justified.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

HighlightEliteMajor - I'll tell you the same thing I told you a couple of days ago when you asked. If either KSU or Baylor advance to the Final Four then yes I'd trade seasons with them. If not, then no I wouldn't. We don't hang banners for Sweet 16 or Elite 8 appearances. Granted we don't do that for Final Four appearances either, but I'm willing to compromise and say that I'd trade a trip to the Final Four, even if we were not to win the National Championship, for our 6th consecutive conference championship and our tournament championship this year. Of course trading our season with K-State would mean that K-State would have beaten us 3 times this year, so I'd be real curious about what kind of comments blasting our coach and team you would have posted after each of those losses, or if we had lost on Senior Night to Iowa St.

P.S. I noticed you conspicuously omitted Northern Iowa from your question as to who we would trade seasons with. I remember they were among the teams you had included when you originally posed the question. The obvious conclusion to be drawn from that is that my "if you they don't make it to a final four then no" theory must have some merit.

jaybate 11 years, 10 months ago


I watched the UNI-MSU wrestling match and came away with this:

a) UNI played a very poor game and still only lost 59-52 to a team coached by a saavy Imperial Wizartd of XTreme Muscle Ball--Ratso Izzo;

b) UNI played an average game and beat KU, the number one seed in the entire tournament.

First Comment: Jacobson thought he could beat MSU without a maximum effort and was playing to save his team's maximum performance for the UTenn game, which he rightly expected to be the tougher challenge for his team--talk about huevos!

Second Comment: UNI was one of the very, very good new teams of the new XTreme muscle ball era--perfectly crafted to how the game is now played.

Third: Since Ratso is one of three masters of mug ball remaining--Huggo-Muggo of WVU and Frank Martin of KSU being the other two--it would be almost a perfect metaphor for the XTreme Muscle Ball Era to see a Final Four with MSU, KSU, WVU trying to destroy the only surviving tie to tradition--Dook. I never thought I would live to say I might have to root for Dook for the good of the game. :-(

And if WVU loses to Contucky, that only means mug ball vs. corrupt ball vs. Dook.

Coach K is now basically Winston Churchill in 1939 holding off the blitzkrieg of barbarism. He has many flaws that make me dislike him. And he is subtlely partly responsible for the rise of muscle ball itself, as Winnie bore involvement in events that lead up to the grotesque cataclysm of WWII.

But who now can be FDR building an arsenal of democracy this off season in order to come to the rescue next.

This is why it is so important for Self and KU to think next. There is no other coach, or program, in position to play the role.

The virtue and future of the game hang in the balance once again.

Ten years ago, after the MSU-Wisconsin nightmare final, the rule makers worked frantically to save the game from barbarism from upstairs, but the job of actually saving the game on the floor fell to coaches, who had to find and demonstrate ways to craft a better way to play under the changed rules. Roy Williams, to his eternal credit, dragged the game kicking and screaming toward a faster style of play, one with more beauty and finesse. He could not win rings with it until he finally got to UNC, but Roy more than any other single coach is responsible for stepping forward and pulling the game out of the sewer for the brief period that it was out of the sewer since the MSU-Wisconsin nightmare final.

But this time around, the rule makers upstairs are now parties to the corruption of the game that might produce this year's nightmare final.

jaybate 11 years, 10 months ago

The game we see is the game they and the TV execs and the gamblers want. And it is contrived each game by their supplicant agents on the floor--the referees with swallowed whistles.

To extricate the game from this fall into barbarism will take a super human effort, because in the beginning this time there will be no help from above.

This time it will be Christians in the coliseum fighting lions that, by their unrelenting faith and steadfastness to the virtues of their faith, will have to persuade with deeds and sacrifice both the corrupted leadership and the blood thirsty fans in the coliseum that the virtue of the quest must prevail.

The grail is once again endangered.

KU this season had precisely the right instrument, at precisely the right moment, to turn the barbarism approaching the temple where the grail lies guarded by a single, aging knight back in the direction of the light.

But KU failed.

As is the case from time to time in human endeavors, the good guys are under siege and facing great adversity now.

I believe Bill Self may be the kind of man, as are many, who respond better when their backs are to the wall, and they have been betrayed by the powers that be.

Self must choose what he is loyal to now.

Pursuit of a ring by any means, in which case Self takes KU further into the Ratso Izzo realm of XTreme Muscle Ball.

Or pursuit of a ring by playing the game the right way, in which case, Self resists further temptation into the realm of Ratso Izzo.

I now believe: just as a woman cannot be half pregnant, a basketball team cannot be half muscle ball.

But Self cannot go back.

The arrow of time points only forward.

Virtue must always be re-expressed in the conceptions and language of the moment.

Self must choose.

Follow further, like a sheep, into the slaughter of XTreme Muscle Ball.

Or move The Legacy forward with creativity growing out of it.

Going along to get along will doom The Legacy.

He must find a new way to beat muscle ball, not become muscle ball.

The mission is clear.

He may have to go to the wilderness for awhile to decide.

Roy struggled mightily for a couple years finding his way through the menace before coming to see a way to next.

Bill must now, too.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

"Its still the same old story, A fight for love and glory, A game of do or die, And the fundamental things apply, As time goes by."

Rock Chalk!

Lance Hobson 11 years, 10 months ago

Ironically, it was the Duke-Purdue game that looked like the muscle ball match. I'm getting sick thinking about it. I sure hope Baylor's letdown isn't enough to let Duke win. KState will be too tired today, but it's been a good run. Butler in Indy is actually very appealing.

Jim Pendleton 11 years, 10 months ago

icthawkfan - While we don't hang individual banners for Final Fours, there are banners hung in AFH which list the Final Four years on them.

Apparently people either aren't reading all the posts here, or you aren't doing your homework before posting. The 3-point and Slam Dunk contests a day or two before the Final Four each year are for invited SENIORS only! That is why Sherron is invited and Tyrel isn't. While we would all rather be playing next weekend, this is a reward for those who not only excel in these two areas, but also stuck around all four years for their school's program. Something that we need to see more of.

Sorry about the finish to the season Sherron. It wasn't a good day for you and a lot of your teammates. However, you have done us proud for four years. Have a good time at the 3-point contest, and get hot for a day. You have certainly earned the opportunity. Rock Chalk!!

FreddyinLA 11 years, 10 months ago

Hopefully Self watched Kentucky crush the 3 ball game of Cornell. They couldn't get a shot off. That's what a quick team that uses their superior bench can do to mid-major teams.

addlime 11 years, 10 months ago

I hate to be negative, but I agree with Freddy and Soobawls to an extent... KU didn't deserve to go further if they can't figure out how to use their superior talent and athleticism to run a mid out of the gym. KU's home winning streak would have ended against Cornell if it hadn't been for the fans in the gym willing that victory. UK just found a way to make it a track meet at the end of the first half and it was game over for Cornell. Self used the press to start games earlier in the season, and there is no reason not to have when we were down 10-2 against UNI. Stubborn! And why he didn't ban tyshawn from jacking up threes that UNI obviously wanted him to shoot, I'll never know. Poor coaching! Also, UNI did get hot/lucky and that was demonstrated last night. They had no poise at all at the end of that game. Embarassing! And here is something to consider. Why does KU have such a storied history of early exits over the last two decades? Nobody has lost more in the second round as a number one, or gone out in the first as a top 4. Could it be because of us? We're an insane fan base, and we inspire those kids to overachieve all season (which they did again this year). They don't have another gear for post season. Instead, they just feel the pressure that the overachieving season puts on them. It happens too often to be a fluke. UTEP, Rhode Island, Arizona (that's right, KU was way better and choked in 97), Bradley, Bucknell, UNI. At least we're getting used to it....

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

FairGrove: Your point, well, I guess, makes mine. I omitted KU from the Final Four because I did not think they would get to the final four. I felt that they were lacking on many fronts, and that the great record was a mirage .. it masked obvious problems. And that we were ripe for an upset. We treaded that line too many times. But you know that. I, like you, did not want to believe it would happen. --- So you are saying, what do I have to complain about because I didn't pick KU? Seriously stupid. Just about as stupid a point as I have seen. I felt all year this team had the right ingredients to win it all. That is obvious to anyone. Speculation alert -- I believe and still believe if we played EJ over TT starting in December, if TT just weren't even on the team, we're still playing right now. I believe that completely. Different dynamic, different style, different contribution. I know, "prove it", or "coach Self must have had a good reason", or blah, blah, blah. Fact alert -- we're out.

ict: No, that's not the question. Would you trade places right now? For the opportunity to play for a Final Four? Not for the final four or a NC. Trading for the final four or an NC is too easy. I trade, right now, just for the opportunity. And I know, I scraped a little nerve with you in the harshness of the criticism. But you assume something that is not true. You ask what would I have said if we would have lost three times to KSU, etc. -- what I would do is offer comment on how to fix it. I have done that all year. Finality brings a different deal. The season is over. And the day we lost, the day after, and the day after that, I was po'd because of the clear opportunity lost. There was no fixing it. My posts throughout this year have not been harshly critical, or really even critical .. but I've been called critical, but usually by the same crowd. I have been consistent.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago


Here’s what I said, Feb. 5 after the Colorado game: Hawk_of_ ages: You have different goals for this team than I do. You care about a conference championship, you like really think going undefeated in the non-con means something. I want a national championship. I'll sacrifice a few losses for meshing at the end. Anything less than a national championship is meaningless. They call a foul on Tyrel at the end of KSU regulation and the last Colorado possession in regulation ends on a made shot, and we've lost our last two and we aren't having this conversation. We got lucky. Good teams find ways to win, but no one can deny we could have easily lost those two games. I, you, oxcal, everyone, has watched enough KU basketball to know that we are scuffling right now, and this is not a team any of us would feel comfortable with in a Sweet 16 game with 5;00 minutes left and tied, against Purdue, or Georgia Tech, or Tennessee, or Pittsburgh. But you make a great point .. you say TRob or EJ doing well against Alcorn St. isn't a good argument as to why they should play now. Agreed. But I never said that. Nor did anyone else. The point is, I think, why not give them meaningful minutes under fire, in tough spots, and see what you've got? Take a chance, risk it tomorrow vs. Nebraska. Ok, we play TRob and EJ 25 minutes each tomorrow, they stink, and we lose to Nebraska. That is the worst that can happen. Is that too big of a risk? Let's look at the reward .. we do that and, man, they did ok. My point has always been we should have done that in December .. perhaps we lose to Cornell and UCLA, whatever. If we are better in March, who cares. Self has unequivocally said, though, by playing Taylor and Reed over EJ, and Markieff over TRob, that he thinks we'll be better in March with those guys getting minutes now; or, he values the immediate wins over March. It's one or the other, or a combination of the two. We will see if he's right.


superdave 11 years, 10 months ago

If Sherron makes a shot during the 3 pt contest, he will surpass his performance in his last game. Why not let Taylor in it too? He missed half as many as Sherron did.

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 10 months ago

HEM- my point does not make yours. You're posts repeatedly bash KU's coaches, players and fans for a missed opportunity to win it all, when you didn't have the fortitude to put KU in the final four. You can't base it on any intellect.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

HighlightEliteMajor - then I abstain from the question. Would I want the opportunity? Of course. However, if we were to lose in the elite 8 I'd regret trading places as I don't feel that anything short of a Final Four means that they had a better season then what we accomplished.

You say "The point is obvious. A run in March overshadows everything during the regular season. Everything. We say we are thankful for the regular season only because that is all we have." Because it's so obvious, I'll wait and see where the specific runs end. When K-State's & Baylor's seasons are over I will then be in a position to say who had the better season.

dynamitehawk 11 years, 10 months ago

The only "run" I care for right now is Erin Andrews running on the beach in slow motion. Or maybe a trampoline...

dynamitehawk 11 years, 10 months ago

Holy crap, what is wrong with Coach K???? He looks like Doc Holiday after ten days of drinking.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

FairgroveJayhawk - he picked Georgetown, who bowed out in the first round, to come out of the midwest. Makes me wonder why? For all his bellowing about this team - "the apparent complacency, lack of killer instinct, inability to put teams away, playing down to the competition", for complaining that we were too slow and didn't get up and down the floor fast enough - he chose one of the most inconsistent teams, one of the slowest offenses in college basketball. Seriously, a princeton offense? Losses to Rutgers and South Florida (as well as poor performances, albeit against tourney teams like Notre Dame and Marquette)? Makes me wonder if his complaints against this year's KU team are legit or if he just needs something to complain about. Because if those complaints against KU are legit, why did he chose a team that clearly has the same problems he saw, but without the upside that KU brought?

My guess is that his complaints have some measure of validity, but more than anything it seemed to be a personal hatred of Tyshawn Taylor which stemmed a belief that this team could not win with him getting significant minutes.

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 10 months ago

Icthawkfan316 - you got me. I have no idea. Everyone's complaints have some validity, how could they not, the season ended on a disappointing note.

But calling out Self's coaching ability; with his record, calling out specific players to say their contributions had no tangible effect; although the TEAM had a greatly successful year, and calling fellow fans stupid, burns my ass.

Arrogance goes a long ways in small circles.

jhokfan 11 years, 10 months ago

My god I feel bad for Darnell. He has got to be shaking his head and asking why me?

Dan Harris 11 years, 10 months ago

Soo No-BALLS_ I was hoping I wouldn't have to read any of your negative BS again until football season when you would undoubtedly start calling for Coach Gills head for not running the wishbone but I guess I was dreaming, It must suck being you.

Dan Harris 11 years, 10 months ago

Jaybate-thanks for that link,whoever put that together did an awsome job. I do feel a little bit better(very little!)

BCRavenJHawkfan 11 years, 10 months ago

I still don't understand some of the thinking.

I read here that some people watched the Northern Iowa - Michigan State game last night, but I wonder what they saw. Last nights performance is proof of just how perfect they played against KU.

First, and foremost, Northern Iowa was merely pedestrian last night. Average shooting at best. The three pointers were clanking off the rim. If you watched Ali Babba shoot his free throws, he was short arming every one of them. I believe he was 50% at the free throw line (wasn't he 80% on the year).

Second, completely different officiating. Now I am not saying the KU game was called in favor of UNI. But what I am saying is that these refs just let them play. That did not happen with the KU game. The result was UNI couldn't make a living at the line the way they could against KU.

Third, UNI did not space the way they did against KU. Nor did they screen and use the screens the way they did against KU.

Fourth, UNI failed to be in the right place at the right time for those rebounds that come out to the top of the key. Against KU, while our guys were under the basket, they were snatching up those balls that seemed like they were filled with helium.

And last, defensively they could not get through the screens the way they did against KU. Michigan State was able to curl off those screens with just enough space to catch and shoot as opposed to spotting up for the three.

And that last point brings me to Tyshawn Taylor. I am sure he has some kind of skills. But we absolutely have to have a guy that can curl around those screens and instantly rise and shoot without much space. Sadly, Tyshawn is just not that player.

Dan Harris 11 years, 10 months ago

HEM-usually don't agree with you but hell yeah I would trade seasons with KSU right now, in fact I'm rooting for Kansas State right now just closing my right eye so I can't see the State part of their jerseys!

AsadZ 11 years, 10 months ago

Really sorry to hear about tragic death and loss of Darnell Jackson's mother. May God bless her and give Darnell courage and strength o deal with this tragedy.

BCRavenJHawkfan 11 years, 10 months ago

And as far as Self doing time as a guest analyst. My first thought was, wow how things change so quickly. Just days ago he claimed to have absolutely no interenst in the tournament at this point. Even said he didn't know of any coach that did when they are eliminated.

But perhaps this is just the "therapy" he needs.

melrank 11 years, 10 months ago

HEM - Could it be that when we were fighting and clawing our way thru conference with some close, hard fought wins, that there might have been benefits for the guys who DID play? That our core of 8 got a little better, a little tougher, a little more ready for close, tight games later in the year? That our core of 8 needed desperately to figure out how to win since none, other than Sherron and Cole, had ever won anything of significance in the post season. Your argument for the end of the bench could easily be applied to the guys who played the most.

If we had said hell with it and lost a couple of those games while we got our ninth, tenth, and eleventh guys some experience in close games would that have made us more likely to win the whole enchilada? Would the end of the bench supplanted the starters as they perhaps got better?

Your fact alert is right on. Yes, we lost. However, there is not a direct cause and effect relationship. The fact we lost does not mean that the personnel moves leading up to the loss were incorrect.

Your speculation alert is . . well . . highly speculative. And speculation is the building block for all Monday Morning Quarterbacks (or Point Guards in this case). Of course, the beauty of being a MMQ is you can't be disproven.

Finally, I will give you credit for a thought provoking hypothetical on trading places. To be honest, I'm not sure where I stand on it. I probably wouldn't trade places with K-State at this moment in time.

superdave 11 years, 10 months ago

It'll be interesting to see how Self is treated by his colleagues at CBS. Is he still regarded as a great coach or as a coach that loses to inferior teams most years? I know he'll try to sugar-coat it and explain how tough it is to win the whole thing, but making a few final 4's wouldn't hurt.

melrank 11 years, 10 months ago

I want to try this hindsight thing and say I won't trade places with K State now.

melrank 11 years, 10 months ago

icthawhfan - glad to give you a chuckle. I've felt a bonding experience with you the last week as we've collectively beat our head against the same wall. :)

jhawkazmars 11 years, 10 months ago

My thoughts and prayers go out to Darnell Jackson and his family.

Coach Self -I can tell you are heartbroken about KUs loss in the tournament as you sit there, laugh and cheer for KState. A few days ago you weren't going to watch any of the tournament, now you are on TV enjoying the K state game. Were you busy planning your trip as you spoke at your last press conference? If you are a coach, does that mean you are not a fan? Most of the fans are still upset KU is not in the tournament. I am watching the game but pulling for BUTLER... like any real KU fan, or maybe you are planning for your future as a basketball analyst. Still feel bad for Sherron, he will rock in the NBA. ROCK CHALK BUTLER-congrats for making the final 4 and Thanks for beating K State!!!!

YuCoJayHawk 11 years, 10 months ago

Kstate played a very (understandably) sluggish game today. Sutton had a HORRIBLE game, Kst missed way too many first attempts at one and one's from the free throw line. Kst gave up way too many drives that resulted in layups (contested or not). Kst got out rebounded by 6, and out shot at the 3pt line, ft line, and overall. I have a feeling it might have been a different outcome if Kst. had time to rest. But, give Butler credit, they deserve it. Who had Butler coming out of that region to the final four? not me.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

jhawkazmars - your post started well with your concern for Darnell & his family. went dramatically down hill. Did you read the article, or just scroll down to quickly add your ridiculous comment? When asking himself if he wanted to do it his answer was "It potentially could help us (in exposure for recruiting)." He is trying to help future KU squads. I'm sure if he could he would apologize to you for not locking himself in a dark room and crying crimson and blue tears all week until hearing from you that it was OK to resume basketball related activities. As for if he was planning his trip at his last press conference, given the fact that he wasn't in studio for the sweet 16 games it is reasonable to assume that CBS asked him pretty late in the week.

You did end you post well, congratulating Butler for making the Final 4. Just need to work on the middle of your posts.

babyjay1 11 years, 10 months ago

You all do realize that soobawls is really a Mizzery fan coming on here just to be laughed at and made fun of.... Probably has to post here since no one in Columbia reads or writes well enough to run a message board. Have fun Soobawls - you're a joke!

KULA 11 years, 10 months ago

Looks like the refs are in awe of Wall Almighty. If he falls, it must have been a foul.

melrank 11 years, 10 months ago

Watching the Kentucky game

  1. It's easy to be in awe of their athletic ability and talent.
  2. It's easy to dislike their cocky, stupid dancing, crybaby attitude.
  3. Please let anyone win the title but them. Even . . . OMG . . . Duke.

Go Mountaineers.

lovemyhawks 11 years, 10 months ago

i"m not watching, i'm only listening but doesn't appear to me that kentucky is too dominant right now!!! would LOVE to see all 4 #1 seeds go down and not make it to the final 4!!!! would do my heart good!!! have to tell you i ENJOYED watching butler cut down the nets..... did NOT want to see ksu do it, kansas team or not. in my opinion, there IS only ONE kansas team and it WAS a fabulous season that we should all be proud of. did we lose too early?? DEFINITELY!! and it was HORRIBLE and i was in terrible depression but it helps to see other upsets and other teams go down. made me sick to watch UNI's performance last nite, though, because ku WOULD have beat them for sure. this year, it's been a year of whoever is hot for the night...... we got lucky a few times and our luck ran out at the WRONG time but i'm forever a jayhawk and still LOVEMYHAWKS!!!

okiedave 11 years, 10 months ago

Soobawls is a tad negative, seems to have nothing positive to say and plays the devils advocate a wee much. However, I have to hand it to Soobawls in that early in the season, when all was going well, he was the first in these posts to notice that our depth was not being utilized effectively. I have to agree with Soobawls now that the season ended in a flame-out when effective utiliation of our depth in an effective press may have changed the course of the NIU game.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

melrank - here are my observations tuning into the Kentucky-West Virginia game:

  1. Someone needs to tell Dick Enberg that John Calipari does NOT have 5 straight 30 win seasons (as Enberg had commented just before tip-off). Perhaps he didn't get the memo about the NCAA vacating all of the "wins" from the '07-'08 Memphis team.

  2. That Bill guy CBS has in-studio sure knows his basketball!

  3. Felt sorry for the guy he hit, but thought it was a perfect illustration of what a class-less chump DeMarcus Cousins is when he open hand slapped that guy in the junk.

  4. Loves seeing UK struggle hitting free-throws (CBS said they were just under 60% for the tournament). I remember reading something from KULA on another thread - "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

  5. Can't help but think "this is just a bad day to be a Wildcat"

melrank 11 years, 10 months ago

Okie - Most all teams have guys who don't play. What makes you think players 9-14 after the regular rotation were ready to contribute more than the guys who were playing? Because of what they did in High School? From what you saw in mop-up minutes? Were you at practice watching them? I'm curious.

Dan Harris 11 years, 10 months ago

CBS and the powers that want Crapola just put a call into the refs that Craptucky must win, what HORSEES@#@T calls !!!!

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

jhawkdan - won't matter, Kentucky can't hit their free throws

Dan Harris 11 years, 10 months ago

Man I hope I don't jinx anything but I want to see all the craptucky fans come on here and spew all their toothless BS after they are sent back to their log cabins by the Hatfields!! LOL!

Dan Harris 11 years, 10 months ago

11 for 23 at the line, history repeating itself for Calamari!

brooksmd 11 years, 10 months ago

Jay Bilas sure wants Kensucky to win. Geez.

okiedave 11 years, 10 months ago

Melrank - nobody said players 9-14 could contribute more than players 1-8. However, players 9-14 were recruited because of their basketball skills and could start on many teams in the country and are far from being non-contributores. Just because they are not as capable as players 1-8 certainly does not preclude them from more than mop-up duty. My best example is the Oklahoma team of 1988 that got to the finals of the NCAA based on their depth and ability to literally run teams into the ground and beat a very good Danny Manning led team twice during the regular season. Kansas learned from those two losses and Kansas went on to win that National Championship, even though most observers felt that Kansas could not win the third track meet Oklahoma was famous for running. Kansas used their deeper bench and left Oklahoma's players pulling on their shorts in the last 5 minutes because their players were physically spent during the last five minutes and could not hit their 3 balls.

Dan Harris 11 years, 10 months ago

Refs are doing everything they can to give this game to the Hillbillies!

Dan Harris 11 years, 10 months ago

All WV has to do is hit their free throws and Craptucky should go down!!

Dan Harris 11 years, 10 months ago

Are you kidding me ! REALLY! a bank from the top of the key! F@#$#$@$%K!!

brooksmd 11 years, 10 months ago

Bobby put your best ft shooters in. They don't need to do anything but catch in-bounds pass and make ft's.

Dan Harris 11 years, 10 months ago


MrPilot 11 years, 10 months ago

w0000! Screw Kentucky and their sleezeball coach!!!! HAHAHAHA! Go Mountaineers!

1911sa 11 years, 10 months ago

now if only duke would lose i would feel so much better. were making the best of a bad situation.

KULA 11 years, 10 months ago

Where's that Kentucky troll on our board today? Haw Haw Haw!!!

brooksmd 11 years, 10 months ago

Where's that Kensucky piece of do-do that's always talkin' his bs? Come on dude lets hear your smack now. No doubt he'll show-up and brag how they made it farther than we did. lol Hey dude, now that you won't have Wall, Cousins and probably Calamari next year what are you gonna do? ROFLMAO GO WVA!!! My wish has come true. After the Hawks lost my only wish was that Kensucky also got flushed down the toilet. YEAH!!! Go Bears. Bring it home for the Big 12.

Lance Hobson 11 years, 10 months ago

Yes!!! It's just not the year for #1s. I sure hope Baylor comes through, too.

okiedave 11 years, 10 months ago

Self looks impressive in his commentary. Now that Kentucky has flamed out on their one and done wonder boys, Calipari's future does not look bright. If Baylor or Butler wins the crown, it will almost be a reasonably pleasant ending to the tournament.

How are you feeling tonight WildcatOne? A little down in your tooth?

melrank 11 years, 10 months ago

Okie - check the box score on that game.

OU played their starters 34 minutes plus and only had 1 sub for 6 minutes. That's zero depth in my book.

KU played 4 starters 30+ minutes and only had 8 guys in double digit minutes. 8 guys in double digit minutes - just like most all of our games this year. Plus, we rarely played 4 starters 30+ minutes. I think we spread the load alot better than the team in 88 did.

Your example doesn't help me understand why we should be playing guys who, in Coach's mind, weren't ready to help us win.

Again, other than opinions and youtube videos, there's no evidence to suggest that the end of our bench was ready to bring more to the table than our regular rotation of 8.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

After watching today's games, along with the Cornell-Kentucky game and the Butler-Syracuse game, does anybody from the "we needed to use our depth and athleticism to force tempo" crowd still have any doubts as to what I've been saying since the UNI loss? That it is far easier to slow a team down than it is to speed a team up.

I'm sure there's a thread being started as we speak that Calipari needed to start pressing earlier, and will ignore the fact that in both the Kentucky & KU loss the easiest explanation is that neither hit shots.

chriz 11 years, 10 months ago

Anyone know whether KU being an Adidas school will have any effect on landing Selby?

melrank 11 years, 10 months ago

icthawkfan (by the way, it's hard to type your name - I think I've misspelled it half a dozen times) - just for kicks, I trolled (didn't post) on a Syracuse web site and cracked up over all of the complaining about Boeheim and their Zone and not pressing and slow tempo, etc. If only I could have cut and pasted and changed some of the names, it would have been identical to the posts on our board - hysterical.

The only difference is I thought Boeheim sucked before they lost.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

melrank - kushaw said he hates my name for the same reason! that he always wants to type "itch". lol. if it helps just type "ict". Right now I'm getting a kick out of rialing up the UK fans on the cbssports game thread!

melrank 11 years, 10 months ago

If I was a UK fan right now, I'd be complaining that we didn't land X Henry after a 0-20 start from trifectaville.

Could you imagine? X might have scored 30 tonight and they would be advancing. Yuk - shivers.

dynamitehawk 11 years, 10 months ago

I found some big blue mist under my nutsack. I tastes good.

NH_JHawk 11 years, 10 months ago

Back in 2008 if you would've told me that I'd be rooting for Huggie bear then I would've called you certifiably insane. As childish as it probably sounds, I have to say my weekend just improved big time watching UK choke like that.

KULA - your comment from a couple of nights ago absolutely rings true tonight. "Those who cannot learn from history are bound to repeat it." Imagine that, a Calipari team missing a ton of freethrows and losing a huge game.

dynamitehawk 11 years, 10 months ago

it tastes good. sorry. got excited about my tasty blue mist.

lovemyhawks 11 years, 10 months ago

WOOHOO!!! today was great therapy for a true blue jayhawk fan..... at least THIS one!!!!! i LOVED watching ksu AND kentucky go down and neither make the final 4!!!! hey, boys, not a good day to be a puddycat, huh?? lol! sure makes me feel better. now i just hope baylor came take down the 4th and final #1 and make the big 12 proud!! go bears!!!!

ya know, yes, i would rather have made it to the elite 8 than losing in the 2nd round BUT would i trade places with ksu?? not on your life!!! we still have the big 12 title (6 in a row!), the big 12 tourney title and were still 5-0 against ksu and mu........ i'd still say that's a great season!! would i trade OUR coach and players for theirs?? not for a minute..... i'll take our class any day. sure, i'm still disappointed with how our season ended but today was wonderful therapy and i'm feeling much better now!!!

Jaminrawk 11 years, 10 months ago

Man, Calipari is a great recruiter but a horrible coach. I doubt he'll ever get to a Final Four at this point ...

Dan Harris 11 years, 10 months ago

So do think Ashley's stuffing her pie hole with Ho Ho's or twinkies right now :( lol

lovemyhawks 11 years, 10 months ago

ok by me .... just hope SELF CAN get back there!!

melrank 11 years, 10 months ago

Let's list all of the One and Dones at Contucky:

Wall - One and Done Cousins - One and Done Bledsoe - One and Done Calipari @ UK - One and Done UK to NCAA instead of NIT - One and Done

I'm sure I'm missing some . . .

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

Melrank: "Cause and effect." you say, referring to personnel suggestions I made all year (EJ in particular): "Yes, we lost. However, there is not a direct cause and effect relationship. The fact we lost does not mean that the personnel moves leading up to the loss were incorrect". Again, this is laughable and there is just an inability to comprehend this by you and others. You have no facts to base that on. You simply say it wouldn't have worked. I have never said to give them (EJ/TRob) minutes late in the year. I said give them minutes starting in December so they would be ready. And I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking. The positions I have now are the same positions I've had all year. So that isn't the same -- it may make you and some feel better to say that, but it is flatly untrue. And my point has continued to be this (though it is conveniently ignored) ... I have not said that playing EJ and not playing TT (or playing TRob early) would have worked for sure, or that it was guaranteed. I have said that given what we knew, which is really the same as we know now, and as I posted all year as to what was we saw during the season, it appeared to be a wise move. But a guarantee? No. Never said that. But I have said what we know for sure ... coach Self's approach rendered a second round exit with the consensus #1 team. We know that for sure. But he is God, right? No mistakes. Do it exactly the same way, even in hindsight.

But to Fairgrove, that's "bashing." So be it. That makes you feel good. And if it makes others feel better to say "trashing" or whatever, fine. Really .. whatever.

And Fairgrove and ICT want to criticize me for not picking KU in my bracket? That, my friends, might be putting your money where your mouth is. I don't run out and pick KU simply because I'm a KU fan. It might be a bit inconsistent for me to have posted all year that this team was going to lose before the final four based on the evidence before us .. sounding the alarms as I mentioned .. My quote was referenced by ict above .. "the apparent complacency, lack of killer instinct, inability to put teams away, playing down to the competition". That was a perfect quote to pull. That sums it up. I picked KU to lose before the final four because every bit of evidence told me they would.

Tell me this, does anyone dispute that the quoted statement above is, in fact, true about the 2009-10 Kansas Jayhawks? That "the apparent complacency, lack of killer instinct, inability to put teams away, playing down to the competition" provides the answer to why KU was ripe to lose before the final four? If it is true, then why is the exit before the final four so surprising. It is that easy. But if you're drinking the Kool-Aid, if you blindly follow your team, whether it is true or untrue is immaterial. Pick KU to win your pool! The zombie mentality was much more prevalent this year because of the #1 ranking and all of the talk.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

(cont) ict -- you defer from the question? The question posed was "Would you trade the 33-3 record, the conference title, the three wins over KSU, the two wins over MU, and getting zapped in round 2 .. basically our performance this season .. with either KSU's performance and position in the tournament or Baylor's? Understanding they both still have a shot at National Championship." And ict defers? Seriously? That's entirely predictable. You don't want to answer it because it clearly defeats the whole premise of your criticisms of my position on tournament vs. regular season. That is because to those that desire to be the best, the answer is a no brainer. You, as a college KU fan, can't/won't answer whether you would trade KU's season with KSU's or Baylor's right now (I know, KSU lost .. this was before they lost) for the opportunity to go to the final four? You defer. That is a joke. But predictable. See, those that are "yes men", that have "blind faith", that don't use "a + b = c" logic, are thinking with emotion .. you believe what you want to believe. Your heart, not your head. Your refusal to answer a legitimate question, that tests the validity of your criticisms of my positions, means you really know the answer is as I have suggested. But to agree, again, defeats your position, so you "defer." That's really pretty easy.

Here's the current question. Right now, would you trade our season, our conference title, our 33-3 record, our 2nd round exit, our 3 wins over KSU, 2 wins over MU with Baylor's season, their non-descript 3rd place finish in the Big 12, and the OPPORTUNITY to go the final four? Not a guaranteed trip to the final four. The OPPORTUNITY to play for a final four.

The answer is easy for me. What's so hard about it? Isn't the answer obvious? You roll the dice, and you say hey, I'll take the opportunity. And I guarantee you this, beyond any shadow of a doubt, Coach Self would make that trade and take that opportunity. The guy is a competitor, he has competed all his life. Not even a question. Anyone dispute that? Heck, I'd trade seasons with Colorado if KU could be playing for the final four. Final fours are about immortality. Final fours mean a chance to play for the title. Conference titles are, well, nice. Missouri has a few. But KU basketball aspires to much more. How many of our players would have been crying on the court if we had lost a season finale in Missouri that cost us the conference title? None. None.

See, icthawkfan316 won't answer until he knows whether or not Baylor makes it. Pretty bold. The kind of decisiveness that made this country great. Hmm, let's see, Corporal: "General Washington .. should we cross the Delaware?" ...... General Washington: Well, will it be a success? Corporal: "I don't know." General Washington: "I would if I knew it would be a success." Corporal: "But General, we need a decision." General Washington: "I'm sorry, I defer."

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

lovemyhawks: Relishing in others' misery. Sounds like a Missouri fan. You buying a Butler or WV t-shirt?

rcjh22 11 years, 10 months ago

Does anyone have a link to a Kentucky sports thread like this? I wanna see how depressed they are :)

okiedave 11 years, 10 months ago

Melrank - I never let the facts stand in the way of a good theory.

melrank 11 years, 10 months ago

HEM - I admire your confidence and steadfastness if not your opinion.

To say I don't have anything to prove your theory wouldn't work is partly true. But, what I do have is a 32-2 record, a Big XII Title, and Big XII Tourney Title prior to the NCAA. Along the way, we played a lot of close games that generally would prepare a team for the grind of the Dance. I've got lots of evidence that would suggest we were a very good team that was capable of winning it all. Apparently, most of the nation and most "experts" thought the same. Obviously, you were not included in either group.

What I didn't get was 40 minutes of intensity every game and an unfortunate loss in the 2nd round.

Only 1 team wins their last game in the tournament and rarely is that team the best team. What is really laughable, to use your phrase, is that you can be so adamant that coach was wrong with his personnel moves when you have absolutely NOTHING to defend that opinion on other than the fact that we lost.

Finally, I know that most of your frustration lies with Tyshawn and EJ. If EJ was even close to making an impact after all the BS Tyshawn put this team thru this year, I would be shocked if Self didn't give him the chance. My only guess is that EJ was alot further away from contributing meaningful minutes that what you think he was. Surely you realize that nothing else makes sense - he wasn't ready - and playing him before he's ready isn't going to magically speed up the process. It was only going to take minutes away from the guys who were best positioned to help us win this year.

melrank 11 years, 10 months ago

Okie - that's cool and your reply gave me a laugh. I was sort of shocked when I looked at the box score myself.

I'm relishing in not only Kentucky's misery, but it's made me feel alot better about our loss, too. The depression wasn't much fun.

Switching Teams? Since anything short of winning it all wouldn't be sufficient for this year's team I would not have changed positions with anyone left in the final 8 before today except Duke and Kentucky. I felt they had legit shots to win it all and if they didn't, their regular seasons would have been something to be celebrated. Personally, I didn't think (before today) that anyone else had enough of a chance to trade away what we'd accomplished this year. So, more than likely I would have still not won it all and had a far less successful season when it was all said and done. Hypotheticals like this can take a lot of odd paths, but that's my take on it. Of course, it's open to your second guessing.

Firebirdguy31 11 years, 10 months ago

I feel so much better now. I would be cool with Butler or even Baylor winning it all.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

HighlightEliteMajor - actually I said I abstain. I'm sure if you try though you can fit the word "defer" in a few more times.

My being critical of you picking Georgetown was not a jab at you not picking KU. I don't pick them every single year just because they're KU. But as I pointed out, if you were not going to pick KU because of the flaws you harped on, why then would you pick the one team in our region who demonstrated those flaws at even higher degrees? Come on professor. Use some of that A + B = C logic I've been reading about. Everything from that quote I pulled, you could see in spades with Georgetown. Wait...tell me you didn't get caught up in that Big East hype and jump on that band wagon because they made it to their conference championship game.

"...answer whether you would trade KU's season with KSU's or Baylor's right now (I know, KSU lost .. this was before they lost)"

funny, 9:49 PM seems to be much later after they lost. Conveniently saying "this was before they lost" does not make it so. Feel free to "defer" from this question if you want, but how would you feel if you just threw away a conference championship and 3 wins against your in-state rival...for nothing? For an elite eight apparence? Not a National Championship, not a Final Four, not something you can put on a banner, not something that would mark this season a success at KU. That's what you would have done - in this fantasy, hot-tub time machine, alternate reality, deal or no deal world of yours - had you traded our season for K-State's. I agree that Final Fours and National Championships are the truest measures of success at Kansas. I have never disputed that. Would I love the opportunity to play for a Final Four this year. Of course. Sadly we do not have that opportunity, and no answer to your stupid question will change that. I didn't know the greatness of my country hinged on my playing your little game. Get a grip, go take some of soobawl's meds that ralster alluded to.

As much as some of the posters are sick of Soobawls tired act, I think quite a few are tired of yours. I've tried to be as reasonable as I can with you, but you're hopeless. To continually disrespect and dismiss any differing opinion; calling fans Kool-Aide drinkers, yes men, & zombies, saying fans aren't using their brains. It's low class. Something I'd expect from the antlers, not a fellow KU fan. I don't want everyone to be cheerleaders, but try and dig deep to summon the small amount of integrity it would take to not degrade fellow KU fans who despite not criticizing everything all season long are still just as devastated by the loss. Like I said in my first response to you following the loss, if it makes you feel better to know that you saw the flaws...congratulations. You're the big winner.

Ron Franklin 11 years, 10 months ago

what did coach k say about self? i missed it?

Craig Colgin 11 years, 10 months ago

ah yes, even though we lost much 2 early, with contucky going down, its seems as though the force has been brought back into balance.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

melrank - sorry, i didn't see your inquiry for the cbssports link until it was too late. I had to step away as my son came stumbling out of the bedroom, then I responded to HEM's latest, and by the time I checked again the thread was all but dead.

I also didn't get a chance to hear what coach K said. What was it? And did it happen early in their broadcast? I was going off of this article's information that he would be on at 3:30, and when I turned it on at 3:20 or something it was in progress. Figured with the article being written by Bedore (and not an AP article) that it was local time for us here in Kansas, but maybe it was Eastern time and actually started at 2:30 here. IDK.

Martin Rosenblum 11 years, 10 months ago

Odd vibe in Memphis tonight.

Huge contingency LOVES the fact that the deserter guaranteed a NC at KY and now is a loser in the E8.

Pulling for Huggins to beat Cal was sort of tough. Huggins was the most despised coach of a team in the same conference as UofM for years when he was at Cinn. Still, the overwhealming preference was for Cal to lose.

Now, who to pull for. Let's see...Butler, no. Duke, no, Baylor, no, West Va., not really, Michigan State, no, Tennessee, split vote. Half of the population in Memphis bleeds orange and the other half bleeds blue. Since the Tigers are nowhere around, it seems that by default, Tennessee is the new toy under the tree.

I for one, can't pull for TN. after they embarrassed KU. Besides, it's still hard to get over the whole criminal thing that went on with their team. Michigan State is not good either since they knocked KU out of the NCAAs last year. Duke, well, not even an option. West Va is not in the fluke category, but still doesn't deserve a NC. Butler is just too much of a cinderella. That leaves Baylor who I believe to be a legitimate deserving team at this point. Of course, I am biased by their Big 12 affiliation slightly. But, If a team that is a "B" team has to win, they're the best one.

Tony Bandle 11 years, 10 months ago

From the Department of Karmic Irony:

1] The refereeing for this game reminded me of the Buffalo Wild wings commercial whereby a quick push of a button signaled the photographer to change the outcome of the game with his flash.

Substitute Wild Wings with CBS, substitute photographer with referees, substitute flash with whistles and you've captured the essence of tonight's game. The irony is that they played this commercial every fourth or fifth time!!

2] All you Kentucky trollers, don't blame the refs...they tried their best but they didn't miss half their free throws, about 100 three-pointers or come up clueless against a 1-3-1 defense!! [ Wall did foul out but he had five charging calls that weren't made]

3] If Baylor takes care of business tomorrow, the Final Four will experience two rarities within the last three years....2008, all four #1's made it..never happened before. 2010, all four #1's are eliminated and don't make it...also rare.

4] I'll bet the executives at CBS are drooling over the match-up possibilities. -Butler vs West Virginia..sounds like a line from the game CLUE., -Butler vs Baylor...attack of the killer bees. -Tennesse vs anyone...their orange uniforms always look out of focus on HD

5] If you thought the refs were under pressure on Saturday, wait to the Duke game. This will be CBS's last chance to salvage ratings. Baylor better be ready because the order for the refs will be 'no dismemberment, no foul!!"

6] A bonus result of Kentucky's monumental choke is, no matter what, I won't have to cheer for friggin' Duke!!!!!!!!!

jhokfan 11 years, 10 months ago


Check the obituaries in the Lexington newspaper tomorrow. Given the complete a$$ he made of himself and the confidence in which he did so, it wouldn’t surprise me if he killed himself.

jhokfan 11 years, 10 months ago

I was curious to see how the Wildcat fans were handling their loss so I wandered over to Lots of anti-Calipari comments and two pro-Tubby Smith comments. For anyone desiring to rub salt in their wounds you need not bother. There is an ample supply of people doing it for you.

My favorite is from catssuckdk who wrote:

When will you toothless, banjo playing products of incest learn that you cannot buy a national championship! Coach Cal was out coached in a big game again! How long until he has your team on probation? Hope that Bledsoe and Wall get out before Calapari ruins them. They appear to be good men in a cesspool of a program. Enjoy your coach...yall deserve each other!

jaybate 11 years, 10 months ago

"Some Things CBS Could Do to Save the Network, If Baylor and Butler Reach the Finals:"

CBS could have the CBS eye could blink, and then cry, to save the network.

CBS could have the CFO of CBS heavily over-insure Black Rock and Black Rock could pull a WTC VII and fall in its own foot print without being hit by anything but thermite to save the network.

CBS could force Dick Enberg to shout "Oh My!" while Bob Huggins, Frank Martin and John Calipari do a Good Fellas schtick on him to save the network.

CBS could sober up Bill Rafftery and have him call games one play at a time to save the network.

CBS could reanimate the apparently necrotic Len Elmore to save the network.

CBS could cue up "One Shining Moment" with a montage of lap dancers to save the network.

Katie Couric could do the evening news topless to save the network.

Clark Kellogg could wear a man thong and enunciate clearly to save the network.

Leslie Visser could broadcast courtside with a Hitachi Magic Wand to save the network.

CBS could have Gary Parrish perish to save the network.

CBS could have Seth Davis slapped senseless and continue to smile to save the network.

CBS could have Verne Lundquist candidly discuss his autoerotic fantasies to save the network.

CBS could have Dave Letterman prey on Butler cheerleaders to save the network.

CBS could have Greg Gumbel have a sex change into a man to save the network.

CBS could have Jim Nantz go to the Hairclub for Men and say, "I wouldn't be here, if I hadn't had to listen to Packer all those years" to save the network.

CBS could have Kevin Harlan admit that nepotism may have gotten him his first broadcasting job to save the network.

CBS could have Jay Bilas wear a flea collar and say, "When you lie down with dogs you get fleas..." to save the network.

CBS could have Greg Anthony admit that his suits are tailored by the same man who custom made Jerry Tarkanian's sucking towels to save the network.

CBS could have Tim Brando admit that his teeth are actually chiclets to save the network.

CBS could have Jim Spanarkel change his name to Jim Smith to save the network.

CBS could have Spero Dedes change his name to Longfellow Dedes to save the network.

CBS could have Gus Johnson admit that he is really Beyonce trying to stretch herself in a new role to save the network.

CBS could fire two thirds of this dead wood to save the network.

(Note: This is totally fictional and satiric and malice is absent. Just trying to get some comic relief from the nonstop fouling in the NCAA XTreme Basketball Tournament.)

jaybate 11 years, 10 months ago

Contucky had a tough night.

FG 34.3%
3PT 12.5% FT 55.2%

Talk about pitiful and choking!!

The great John Wall was 7-18 with "5" TOs.

We KU fans need to remember John Wall, and Derek Rose, if Self lands Selby and persons begin talking NC next year.

Winning NCs with freshman point guards is a pretty tough way to do it.

What was the last team to win an NC with a freshman PG?

lovemyhawks 11 years, 10 months ago

highelite..... NO , i do NOT appreciate your comment at all and calling me a mizzou fan is a low blow and very rude and shows me what type of person you must be. many millions of jayhawk fans enjoyed those losses as much as i did. so take your comment and shove it!

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

Lovemyhawks: It really does concern me that you did not appreciate my comment. I have actually reassessed my entire existence. Now that I am done with that, rooting against someone and relishing their defeat, when your team is out, makes you no different than a Mizzou fan. Isn't that their m/o? By the way, did you buy your Butler t-shirt yet?

ict: I am hopeless, you're right. I did buy the Big East hype a bit with G'town .. actually a big Monroe fan. Thought they had put it together late. And I thought the Big East was the best conference .. and that Syracuse would get their center back. In my book, Syracuse was the best team before his injury.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

HighlightEliteMajor - Since I didn't fill out a bracket on this site, and in the interest of fairness, I will share my Final Four. I was on the other side of the coin...I had three Big 12 teams going to Indianapolis. Kansas, K-State, Baylor, and West Virginia, with Kansas over West Virginia for the Championship. I don't think it was a straight "homer" pick.

Regarding the Big East, I thought it was a tough conference, but not as good as they were made out to be. I thought Marquette & Notre Dame were bubble teams at best, and definitely not worthy of a pair of #6 seeds. Aside from beating Syracuse twice (an impressive accomplishment), Louisville didn't do anything to belong in the tournament. I thought Villanova was a joke as a #2 seed, as they faded fast down the stretch losing I want to say 5 of their last 7 going into the tournament. I thought Pitt was tough, but a tad inexperienced, and I had them bowing out to K-State in the sweet 16. I thought Georgetown was tough too, and capable of beating anyone, but way too inconsistent to string together 4 wins. Obviously I'm high on West Virginia. And I thought Syracuse was KU's biggest threat to win the national title, until they lost their last two games and their center got injured (maybe Boeheim should have developed some more depth during the season to safe-guard against something like that. LOL.)

I might have been reaching a bit picking Baylor to beat Duke, with the Bears venturing into uncharted territory and having to face off with such a savvy basketball mind like Coach K. I just liked their guard play, Udoh inside, and their zone defense. K-State I thought had great guard play and was very deep inside. I think Xavier pushing them to double overtime, and Frank Martin playing Pullen & Clemente so much, was just too much to overcome against a fundamentally sound and confident Butler team. Of course I had K-State beating Syracuse in my bracket, although given the Xavier game I don't know if they beat the Orange either.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

Which leads me to KU. I thought we had all the pieces. We had experience. We had leadership. We had a match-up problem for almost every team in Marcus Morris. We had an intimidating post defender. We played good defense. We had good role players. We had NBA talent (not superstar NBA talent, but NBA talent nonetheless). We had a coach coming off a championship 2 years ago and a National Coach of the Year award last year. We had plenty of motivation. We played a tough schedule - tougher than the other number 1 seeds IMO (again realizing that I was not as high on the Big East as were others). During the course of that schedule we were tested and found ways to win. We won games playing a variety of different styles. Playing fast, playing slow. Where others have commented that we could have easily lost a few more games, I saw it as good preparation for the tournament. I don't think anything I mentioned us as having could be disputed. So what happened? Even someone as skeptical about our chances as you didn't see the UNI loss happening. I don't think it's as easy as some have made it out to be by blaming tempo, that was almost predictable. I honestly think that it was a combination of some things that had plagued us from time to time during the season but rarely all at once coming together (maybe in the Tennessee game). Not a perfect storm, UNI did not play a perfect game, but an unfortunate and unlikely occurance of all of our flaws (and a couple of bad breaks) converging during one game. Starting slow and falling behind early played right into UNI's hands. Poor outside shooting. Careless turnovers. A failure to get to the foul line more often. And too many offensive rebounds allowed. KU had overcame two or three of these during games in a couple separate instances. No one could have predicted all of them happening during that game. Maybe it could have been avoided by doing this or doing that, but I doubt many coaches have much of a game plan for the "when everything goes to crap" game.

Anyway, sorry for rambling on explaining my picks. Like I said, I took a shot at yours (again, not for not picking KU), so I thought I'd offer up mine. Of course then I digressed into trying to make sense of the UNI loss. Forgive that rant. I'm still a little distraught. I think in the wake of K-State losing one of their disgruntled fans noticed my jayhawk licence plate & steering wheel cover, and in a moment of rage stole it. Yep, walked out of the apartment this morning and the car was gone. Then to see Michigan State & Tennessee playing, knowing that we should be in that game...well it's been a rough day!

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 10 months ago

Low Common Private

You need professional help.

lovemyhawks 11 years, 10 months ago

ict..... first let me say that i think YOU are worth writing back to and i really enjoyed your post and truly agreed with your theory totally. uni just was a game when TOO many little things added together and created disaster. so very sorry about the day you have had.... wow.....and you're right, it WAS tough watching that game, knowing it SHOULD have been us. still very sad. but does anyone have the right to call me a mizzou fan?? that is totally disgusting and uncalled for and very much unappreciated. there are few ku fans out there bigger than me ..... if any. i am 100% jayhawk thru thick and thin and i know MANY MANY other HUGE jayhawk fans that were equally THRILLED to see ksu and kentucky fall yesterday. i was no minority at all. anyway..... RCJH!!

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

ict: I do not think you were a homer from picking KU. And I don't think many were homers for doing that. If someone felt that they were absolutely the best team, and that some of the flaws were not going to cause them to lose, that's not being a homer. Particularly when stacked up against a relatively week field. I do think rooting for a team causes me, and most, to look at things through rose colored glasses. This year was just different to me on my own rose colored glasses. Being a homer, I think, would be believing they had a low chance of winning it all and picking them. I did one other bracket with another group and my only change was Ohio St. going to the final four instead of G'twon .. a last minute change. That was brilliant, too.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

ict: And, on your car, sorry about that .. you're probably right, a KSU fan likely did it. They always want the ride we have.

Kye Clark 11 years, 10 months ago

HighEliteMajor - agreed on it being a relatively weak field. Another reason the loss was so maddening.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

lovemyhawks: You are really ultrasensitive. But I know you are a KU fan, and not a Mizzou fan. My preference is that KU fans root for KU, not against our rivals ... KSU, MU, etc. That seems to be what I see from MU fans, and some KSU fans (mostly MU fans). Particularly in obvious ways. I was at a sports bar last year during the MU elite 8 game and a couple KU guys were cheering for UConn. I made a point to telling them .. do we really need to do that. We talked a bit, one ended up agreeing, one didn't .. and he, like you, thought I was crazy. The one that did agree graduated from KU. Had been to AFH "a ton of times" he said. The other one had never been to AFH, never went to school there, but was just a fan he said. I just think that when you are a fan of a program of our stature, worrying about what the little people do .. KSU/MU .. is a bit below us. I love to project that to my KSU/MU friends, acquaintances. It catches them off guard (of course, not projecting that they are the "little people"). This weekend we invited a family that is friends with us to come over and watch the game .. they are huge KSU fans. And we're .. well .. not. All KU stuff in the basement. But we bought some KSU power cats and taped them up over some of the KU frames, and banners, etc. Pretty fun. Except that KSU lost.

Anyway, sorry to have offended you. That was not my purpose. If you care, I believe you are a true, 100% KU fan. No question there.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

Fairgrove: "Low Common Minor" would actually be a more proper moniker. I might switch.

Do you really think anything I have said would require professional help .. if so, let me know what those items are. I will give that consideration .. getting professional help. I will because I hold your opinion in such high regard. Waking up today, I was like, what does Fairgrove think? So with that level of respect I will give it consideration. But if you would be kind enough to identify the specific areas that are at issue, I can then consider it. Thanks.



lovemyhawks 11 years, 10 months ago

high elite.... yes, you offended me but i do appreciate the final post so let's let it go, OK?

Jack Wilson 11 years, 10 months ago

lovemyhawks .. ok, I'll let it go ............................... but do you know where I can find a Butler t-shirt? ........ oh, cr**, I did it again. Fairgrove is right, I do need help.

Of course I'm kidding. Have a good day.

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

HEM - I'm glad you woke up on a festive note. Doesn't it feel good to be nice to all your Jayhawk brethren regardless of their analytical capacity?

I find your basketball knowledge insightful but your negativity toward the 'cheerleaders', it kills your credibility.

Keep up the positive work :)

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