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Monday, June 21, 2010

Keegan

Nitpicking picks: Scout dishes on KU’s Aldrich, Henry, Collins

Three Kansas University products — from left, Cole Aldrich, Xavier Henry and Sherron Collins — are expected to be selected in Thursday’s NBA Draft. At least one scout says Aldrich and Henry are first-rounders, while Collins likely will go in the second round.

Three Kansas University products — from left, Cole Aldrich, Xavier Henry and Sherron Collins — are expected to be selected in Thursday’s NBA Draft. At least one scout says Aldrich and Henry are first-rounders, while Collins likely will go in the second round.

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Now, more than ever, scouts who work for NBA teams wear a muzzle. That’s why now, more than ever, Jim Clibanoff, an independent scout several NBA teams use, is a man in demand. He works without a gag order and has no agendas.

Clibanoff shared his thoughts Sunday night on the three Kansas University players and a few other Big 12 players eagerly awaiting the outcome of Thursday’s NBA Draft.

Clibanoff said he thinks KU center Cole Aldrich could leave the board as early as No. 6, to Golden State, or as late as No. 14, to Houston.

“I personally wouldn’t pick him that high,” Clibanoff said from his Philadelphia home. “I’d take him somewhere in the 18-to-24 range. If someone puts him under a serious microscope, is he well-conditioned enough to play up-tempo? I watched him play against Temple, and he was the last guy up and down the court.”

Any other concerns?

“He’s not smooth, graceful or elegant with his finesse game, nor is he brawny or powerful enough as a power player,” Clibanoff said. “He’s somewhere in between. Usually, that’s not a recipe to become an NBA starter. However, the NBA is a center-starved league, so depending on time and place, he could get a lot of minutes.”

On the plus side, according to the operator of a scouting service known as Clib Hoops, Aldrich has proven he knows how to fit in with talented players and knows how to embrace his role.

“It’s easy to like his game and really hard to love it,” Clibanoff said.

He added that a former North Carolina center Brendan Haywood is as good a guess as any for what sort of a career Aldrich might have in the NBA. Haywood’s career averages: 7.7 points, 6.4 rebounds and 1.5 blocks in 24.6 minutes per game.

Moving onto Xavier Henry, KU’s only one-and-done player, Clibanoff voiced the opinion that if he had stayed in school longer and developed more scoring weapons, Henry could have worked his way to becoming something along the lines of a No. 6 pick.

“Because he didn’t stay at Kansas longer, he didn’t develop a versatile skill set,” Clibanoff said. “He didn’t show that off-the-dribble game. My concern is he might be a one-dimensional shooter. He does have that poise and NBA-readiness some players never will have.”

Clibanoff said he expects Henry to be taken somewhere in the 12-to-20 range, which is higher than where he graded him. If Clibanoff were doing the picking, he said he’d have him going somewhere in the 18-to-26 range.

The scout said he would be surprised to see a third Kansas player chosen in the first round. He does like the chances of stocky 5-foot-11 point guard Sherron Collins going in the second round and earning a job.

“When it gets down to that last round of cuts, I’ll put my money on tough guys who have that football mentality,” Clibanoff said. “Character kept Jacque Vaughn in the game for many, many years. I think toughness is the ingredient that could keep Sherron in the NBA for a long career.”

Collins, Clibanoff said, helped himself greatly by staying in school four years to polish his game and would be good fit for an up-tempo team.

Comments

Spencer Goff 9 years, 2 months ago

“He didn’t show that off-the-dribble game. My concern is he might be a one-dimensional shooter."

You have my house mic'd and spied on me?

klineisanazi 9 years, 2 months ago

Pretty spot-on. Unfortunately, Cole staying one year probably hurt his reputation, and X didn't help himself by leaving. Timing is everything.

rockchalk4442 9 years, 2 months ago

i definitely agree, but if x would have waited he could have found himself right in the middle of a lockout. talk about bad timing

jhox 9 years, 2 months ago

Was Cole not suffering some respirtory ailment early in the year? Using the Temple game as an example, is hardly representative of his physical condition later in the season. If they're looking for a great offensive player, Cole is not the guy. If they want defense and rebounding, there are not many big men in this or any other draft better. I believe Cole will have a long career and make a lot of money, though he may or may not ever be a starter.

The criticism of Xavier's skills are probably fair, but he'll have a good career. He's young and will have time to develop.

I believe his comments an Sherron are spot on. HIs weakness is his height, his strength is his heart and toughness..

JacquesMerde 9 years, 2 months ago

I hope you are correct about Aldrich, but he lacked stamina all year long and had trouble against tough centers. He was taken out and rested frequently during a game. He is much better defensively, but he needs to get used to being pushed, shoved, banged, hacked, etc., etc.

ksyank 9 years, 2 months ago

I agree completely with the comments about Aldrich and the Temple game. He was terrible the first part of the season although everyone else was pretty incredible on that day. Brendan Haywood is probably a pretty good comparison to Cole, but the thing about Cole that I noticed is his ability to get better each year. Even though his numbers weren't as good last season, a lot of that had to do with the emergence of the Morris twins. Cole is going to get paid, Ostertag did and he is better than Greg.

Xavier is getting drafted on potential. Though he had a pretty darn good season.

When I think of Sherron Collins I see Jameer Nelson. Jameer is listed as 1 inch taller than Sherron. Nelson was the 20th overall selection. I would expect Sherron to be a similar selection. 3 players taken in the first round from a team that was clearly the best team all season is not unheard of. Hope they all get drafted high. It'll be good for them and good for recruiting. Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

ksyank 9 years, 2 months ago

Just saw a comparison between Sherron and Jameer Nelson's combine stats. They are the exact same height(5-10.25). Nelson had a better agility test (lateral slides around the lane) numbers (10.66 compared to 12.31) but they had very similar sprint test (3/4 court) numbers (3.24 vs. 3.16). The big difference is Nelson weighs in at 187 while Sherron is at 217.

Most projections show Sherron going pretty low in the draft (49-55), but he could be the bargain of the draft. Hopefully he lands with a good organization like Nelson did that will help him get his body ready to play in the NBA.

John Randall 9 years, 1 month ago

I never felt the 'respiratory ailment' went away ... just the talk about it.

Many times late in the season it was evident he was playing short of breath. He played fewer minutes than as a soph, but more than he could sustain max effort -- because we needed him on the court, even at less than full speed -- or at least HCBS felt that way.

Martin Rosenblum 9 years, 2 months ago

I would think that Xavier would be labeled a "project" and hard to define a role for him.

Sherron is one of the toughest, most physical players under 6 ft. that the league would have. But, his slashing style doesn't make up for his inconsistent ball-handling skills.

There aren't many Blake Griffins or Tyler Hansboroughs this year to compete with Cole for position. There may be some of those surprise foriegn big men, like there are some years. But, Cole should be in the top 10.

I expect some trade deals like never before as well as some trades from previous drafts to cash in on. So, we shouldn't get too excoted with the very first team whose hats these guys put on.

Eliott Reeder 9 years, 2 months ago

Sherron does not have inconsistent ball-handling skills. That is absurd.

John Randall 9 years, 1 month ago

You have a strange idea of the 'absurd' -- was the team ever in any trouble that his turnovers weren't a factor?

It is hard to say whether he, the rest of the team, or coaching was at fault, but far too much reliance on one (any one) player can't be successful every minute of every game.

Dyrk Dugan 9 years, 2 months ago

they'll be fine, and will be on NBA rosters in the fall. and then it's up to them.

Robert Brock 9 years, 2 months ago

It doesn't seem like that scout watched these players very many times. I don't believe that one can arrive at a sound judgment by watching a player play one game.

Tim Bingaman 9 years, 2 months ago

I love Sherron and think he has a good shot to be an NBA player!!! Good luck Sherron!

With all due respect, I don't think that his character compares to Jacque. Strange comparison... Two totally different players with different strengths.

loudog 9 years, 2 months ago

I don't think he was comparing Sherron's character to Jacque's character. I think the comparison he was making was that they both have a quality, other than their game, that kept Jacque in the league for a long time and could keep Sherron in the league for a long time. With Jacque it was character, with Sherron it is toughness.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 2 months ago

The way the NBA plays now with "major thug ball" coupled with rugby contact, those silly fouls that plagued Sherron won't even be a blip on the radar screen.

Coupled with his ability to, if I may use this phrase somehat but not altogether loosely, take a punch, I foresee Sherron having a much bigger NBA role than most believe.

HOWEVER, and there's always a however in life, he absolutely must keep his weight under control.

Cole will be a Bill Wennington type, a steady solid role player, good teammate and probably have an Ostertag-like length of career and make lots and lots of money.

Xavier could develope into the steal of the draft......or not!!

Jeff Cuttell 9 years, 2 months ago

Scouts are saying Sherron has gained about 30 lbs from what he weighed at the end of the year. Not good for someone trying to get drafted when you have weight issues anyway.

lee3022 9 years, 2 months ago

Draft Express indicated that he lost about that much while working out in Las Vegas in preparation for the draft. Not sure whether your source is more recent that last month or prior.

I do agree that his weight is critical for his conditioning and performance.

ku98 9 years, 2 months ago

I heard he weighed in at 217 in Chicago, but then at 229 just a few days ago, working out for the Nets.

John Randall 9 years, 1 month ago

Did you like what he said, or what you made of it?

If a talent like ZahvyAir could be picked two or three spots earlier next year, how much more is the contract worth? And how many years would it take to balance with what he puts in the bank the first year?

Remember, draft position affects salary for three years only. Going a year earlier also means the next contract (for REAL money) will com a year sooner, as well.

You and I wanting to keep "our" players as long as possible is both selfish and simplistic on our part. Had Sherron not stayed, who knows which recruits might have become Jayhawks?

I am more pleased that Sherron stayed KU four years because of his development as a person than as a player. His maturation says more about him and about the "KU experience" than any stats or position in the NBA draft.

John Sheehan 9 years, 2 months ago

I think his analysis is dead-on. Unfortunately it also makes me think of what could have and maybe should have been if X and Cole stayed to play alongside Selby...Cole would've gotten stronger / developed his offense and X could've developed his dribble-drive and defense. We would be front runners to win it all. Both guys would've/could've improved there chance to be lottery / top 5 picks in 2011. Especially X...

Ron Prichard 9 years, 2 months ago

That assumes Selby still comes to KU if X comes back. I'm not so sure that happens.

John Sheehan 9 years, 2 months ago

I think Selby would be here either way. X at SF...Selby is a PG or SG.

WilburNether 9 years, 2 months ago

My best guess is that Aldrich will have the longest NBA career of the three, comparable to Ostertag.

The scout is right about Henry. He'll spend time sitting at the end of an NBA bench that he could have put to more productive use developing his game at Kansas. He rarely was able to create his own shot in college, so now he's going to be a scorer against experienced NBA players and more sophisticated defenses? Get real.

Collins may not make an NBA roster, and likely won't last long even if he does. Toughness? That's very nice, but everyone in the NBA is tough. Toughness is not going to make up for his size and shortcomings. I hope he makes it, but I doubt that he will.

People tend to get carried away when their favorite KU athletes are involved, and lose any sense of objectivity. A good example is Simien. It was obvious to anyone who knows anything about the game that he would not make it in the NBA, but there were endless tributes from people fawning over their favorite player, with no sense of objectivity at all. Do a reality check when evaluating the prospects of our guys.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, I wonder if Papa Henry realizes how athletic, strong, and good 99% of the small forwards and shooting guards in the league are right now. Even garbage teams like the Nets and Knicks have good, athletic swingmen.

Pbbut 9 years, 2 months ago

Agreed, in the NBA there are lots of 6'6" guys with skills, it may be the largest commodity in the marketplace. There are a lot of good, athletic swingmen playing in Europe.

David Lara 9 years, 2 months ago

"That's very nice, but everyone in the NBA is tough." Um, wrong. I can name you plenty of cupcakes making a nice paycheck in the League. And Sherron is good at using the benefits of his stature as well. He is great at defending the pick and roll because if his fantastic strength and low center of gravity. A smart player will always use what he has to find an advantage. If he is in shape there is plenty to like about him.

WilburNether 9 years, 2 months ago

Um, wrong. Collins was not a particularly good defender. At the college level, he was nowhere near as good a defender as Robinson and Chalmers (or, going back a few years, Vaughn and Haase). At the NBA level, he's going to have serious problems coping with point guards who are both several inches taller AND quicker than he is.

I hope he makes it, but I am predicting he won't.

And no, there aren't "plenty of cupcakes" in the NBA. That may have been the case years ago, but now there is a steady stream of new talent coming in with each and every draft, and from all over the world. You need to understand that every draft pick and undrafted free agent that makes a team's roster means that one of the current players will be gone, out of the league. And this happens every year, with every draft -- in with the new talent, out with the marginal players. "Cupcakes" don't stick in the NBA, and claiming that Collins will because he's "tough" is far off base. He does not have the size or skills to stay in the NBA for long -- assuming that he ever makes a roster in the first place.

DevilHawk 9 years, 2 months ago

I agree that X probably would have benefited from another year, but that decision was already made.

We all expected X to be the third scorer on the team and to make his own shot. Instead, he often deferred those opportunities to Sherron.

Overall, I think a fair comparison for X would be to James Harden as a freshman. However, a key difference is that Harden came in to a weak ASU team; whereas, X came in to a team that went to the Sweet 16, was expected to win the title, had returning stars in Sherron and Aldrich, and is a far better program. Harden knew that the team couldn't afford him being passive; whereas, X usually could rely on those around him.

All that said though, X may see a fair amount of playing time depending on where he ends up and how he plays in practice.

jayhawkintexas 9 years, 2 months ago

Cole is like Pollard or Ostertag--will have a long career but never as a star. Wherever he lands, he might also pick up endorsements for dentists!!

lee3022 9 years, 2 months ago

I think Cole is a much better rebounder and defender than Pollard. Ostertag did have a nice career in Utah and that is the team that can use Cole best with the #9 pick. Deron Williams would turn Cole into a star with easy finishing passes off the pick and roll and ally-oops. Finishing is Cole's second biggest offensive strength (offensive rebounding is his best).

Michael Leiker 9 years, 2 months ago

Does anyone think Henry can get away with the same shooting form he's used his whole life in the NBA? That swing your whole body, left foot a foot in front of the other, medium lift shooting style just seems to me like it will end up in the 3rd row more often than in the hole.

jazzhawk 9 years, 2 months ago

Anyone with doubts about Sherron's ability to land, play, produce and be effective at the NBA level need look no further than this year's NBA Finals. Every time I saw Nate Robinson light LA up for a timely 3 or great hussle plays, I thought "Sherron will do that". Definitely reminded me of his Memphis game. As we all know of course, it always depends on situation, team, etc., but I think he will make a big impact.

Michael Leiker 9 years, 2 months ago

Doesn't Robinson have a 45+ inch vertical? I don't think the two are comparable. Nate is much quicker.

lee3022 9 years, 2 months ago

Agreed (43.5") but Sherron is much tougher, bigger and stronger (Nate was 170 pounds and 5'7.75"). They are not comparable. A better comparison is Orlando's point guard Jameer Nelson.

jazzhawk 9 years, 2 months ago

When Sherron's legs were finally healthy, he could make his way around anyone. That quick step/hard dribble, step back/head fake or crossover dribble and drive when the opponent is off-balance worked just about any time he wanted it to, as I remember. I DVR'd games and showed that move to my daughter on many occasions. I don't think speed/quickness is any issue for Sherron.

As far as verticle leap, that may enable Robinson to rebound more, but I think it is incredible when BOTH of them disappear for a split second amidst the crowd of "bigs" and the next thing you see is their hand and the ball off the glass into the basket.

I think the two are very comparable. Especially their tenacity/fight, which I actually give an edge to Sherron, on.

Lone_salina_kufan 9 years, 2 months ago

Personally, I think Sherron's high side comparison would be Jameer Nelson (sp?) from the Magic. I think he fits the mold of an undersized, stocky point. The key to Nelson's game is the outside shot. If Sherron is a 38-40% from 3, he will play solid amount of minutes. He will commit to defense, and be extremely hard to guard on the pick and roll if he shoots well. If he stays in shape and shoots well, he'll play

John Randall 9 years, 1 month ago

Wasn't there an undersize, tough-as-nails PG on the winning team also?

Amazing no one is making the most obvious comparison to what Sherron could be for a team with a ton of talent but needing something in the fortitude department.

Scott Smetana 9 years, 2 months ago

Reed outplayed X last year when it counted and hope he sees the court alot next season. I'm hoping he's our 'glue' guy. aka. RussRob. We'll miss X's rebounds though.

beawolf 9 years, 2 months ago

"Reed outplayed X last year when it counted". No, he didn't. Not even close. Unless your definition of "counted" was in the last 2 minutes of garbage time.

lee3022 9 years, 2 months ago

My own impressions are based upon years of observing the draft process and the stereotypes that teams place on players. I am certainly no expert. Given those parameters here are my predictions:

Cole is most suited to be drafted by a contender as he is NBA ready to contribute as a big man, the only big man in the draft lottery projections to be ready. Utah will covet him (9th pick) as he is perfect for their system and culture and another contender might find a way to move ahead of Utah (unlikely) to snag him. Cole may play in the Rookie Challenge at the 2010 All-Star game.

Xavier will find an early home in the draft. His combination of size, shooting ability and basketball savvy with potential to grow will intrigue several lottery teams. His wingspan (6'11.25") is outstanding and his no-step vertical (28.5") and his max vertical (36.5") are good to very good and his sprint (3.18) and lane agility (11.10) are very good. These measurements may be enough to indicate the physical tools needed to be a starter in the NBA. In addition the interviews Xavier has given are mature and focused. I predict Xavier to go in the lottery (1-14).

I see Sherron as the sleeper in the group. This is an unusually inexperienced point guard draft with little depth. Sherron has toned his body and conditioning this spring and improved his outside shot (even though he shot 37% from 3-point range last year). But Sherron's leadership skills and his ability to get his own shot has good potential to provide back-up point guard capabilities to a contender right away. This may open up an opportunity for Sherron in the lower half of the 1st round or very early in the 2nd round. A team choosing Sherron will not be disappointed and he could very well play an important role in a play-off series within the 1st two years.

As a Portland Trail Blazer fan (since 1970) I would be happy to see that team draft any of these three but especially Sherron in the 2nd round as the need for point guard depth and outside shooting makes him a natural fit. Cole will likely be priced too high for the Trail Blazers and Xavier may be as well.

(Posted on previous story by mistake)

hawksince51 9 years, 2 months ago

Cole is better than Ostertag in most categories--better shooter, better moves around the basket, better shot-blocker, better passer, better hands, and as good a rebounder. If he is drafted by a team with a Karl Malone at PF, he could start his rookie year. However, that probably won't happen so he may be a back-up center for a season. But, he will have a long career due to his size and other abilities. X is a project so far as playing in the NBA. Due to his size and athletic ability, he should develop into a solid bench player, and maybe a starter, but never a star. He will have a very average career at best. As much as I hope he can make it, I do not expect Sherron to last very long in the NBA. He is too small, not all that quick, and a pretty good, but certainly not great, shooter. But, he can make $$millions playing in Europe so I will shed no tears for him.

kerbyd 9 years, 2 months ago

<p>Yahoo.com seems to be really down on Cole. Not sure why.

Martin Rosenblum 9 years, 2 months ago

I see X being similar to Brandon Rush in terms of potential. Both are talented from the outside and have streaks of power moves to the basket. Neither, in my opinion, have great passing or play-making creds. Starters at the 3 or 4 in the NBA need to be more like Pierce. Hopefully, X can enhance his game and avoid the NBDL syndrome for the first year or two. If he can stay on the bench and rachet up the skill sets, he'll be more valuable in 2-3 years.

BCRavenJHawkfan 9 years, 2 months ago

Everybody's an expert and a critic. So, where did the "Scouts" have Paul Pierce all those years ago. And look at him now. It's a roll of the dice at best.

jhox 9 years, 2 months ago

As I recall, one team wanted to take Pierce with the second pick in the draft, and Paul let it be known that he didn't really want to play for them, and hinted he might be hard to sign. I think he finally went about 10th. But it wasn't a case of teams being down on Pierce. It was a matter of need, and after Paul screwed himself over prior to the draft, he dropped to the Celtics.

Lance Hobson 9 years, 2 months ago

Good call on Cole being sick around the time of that Temple game. He was in bad shape for a while because of that.

jaybate 9 years, 2 months ago

Here's what I could find in one simple google search of Jim Clibanoff.

--graduated from Tufts, a fine school, which plays DIII basketball.

--didn't see any indication that he played for Tufts, but who knows?

--Found no indication that he has been employed full time as a player, coach, or scout for an NBA team.

--perhaps 1991 about age 22, reputedly became Player Personel Director for USBL's Philadelphia Spirit (called first big break in "pro" basketball on one web site).

--perhaps 1992, reputedly was with Jersey Jammers, administrative title was not indicated.

--1993, reputedly teamed up with the late Don Leventhal and worked to publish the Leventhal NBA Draft Report, a publication reputedly devoted "...entirely to evaluation of professional draft prospects," http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Clibanoff_Jim_11042830.aspx

--Found no professional association, or society, of independent scouts in brief online search, so perhaps anyone can call himself/herself an independent scout, but who knows for sure?

--Jim Clibanoff apparently has a web site called clibhoops.com and it's sign in page "for clients" indicates "clib hoops" was copyrighted in 2009. The site indicates it is under construction as of this posting.

--As of January 29th, 2010, independent scout Jim Clibanoff was referred to at the tail end of a story by Kate Harman of the Philly Inquirer, as being "the Inquirer's NBA draft expert" and was said to have "...a scouting service, Clibhoops, subscribed to by most NBA teams." http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/20100129_Kutztown_s_Dennis_leading_Bears_to_Division_II_heights.html

--Running contrary to so many professionals in basketball the last five years, or so, independent scout Jim Clibanoff has apparently chosen not to open a wikipedia page about himself, thereby denying the general public detailed biographical and professional information about himself that the public so loves to explore these days.

--Jim Clibanoff does apparently have a Facebook page and reputedly has about 714 friends, which makes him a rich man, regardless of how much money he makes as an independent scout.

--There is a Jim Clibanoff on Linkedln, too.

You be the judge of how much weight should be assigned to his opinions about KU players.

jaybate 9 years, 2 months ago

} Cole: Name one pro team that does not need, and need badly, at least as a back-up, what Cole brings.

The NBA is full of bigs who can't:

--rebound as well as Cole does; --block shots as well as Cole does; --shoot free throws as well as Cole does; --hedge defend as well as Cole does off the pick and roll.

Cole's weaknesses are:

--can't score on guys his size; --can't defend the post without double team help when the guy outweighs him 20 pounds, which most NBA bigs will; --lack of stamina.

Five key questions about Cole are:

  1. Can he regain his stamina?
  2. Can he learn to score on the big guys?
  3. Can he add 20 pounds above the waist to defend the big guys?
  4. Can his knees carry another 20 pounds on top?
  5. Or is there another way other than muscle to handle the intimidation in the pros?

Answers: 1. Yes. 2. Not unless he gets much stronger on top. 3. Yes. 3. I doubt they can handle the weight, since they are already giving him trouble. 4. Take martial arts.

jaybate 9 years, 2 months ago

"To Find a Way to Play the Game in the Age of Referees Not Calling Fouls for Long Stretchses to Fit Games in TV Time Slots"

To find an effective way to play the game in the era of referees not calling fouls for long stretches to fit games in television time slots, you have to first inventory what your opponents are doing, so you know what your system will have to compete with beat.

To beat a system your system needs to encourage and exploit the weaknesses and mistakes that are structural to the opponent's system.

Here are the systems I recognize so far.

~Okie Ball: 70 point take what they give us approach mixing sets (pick and roll, high-low, motion, and even some ball screens) and tempos to seek match-up advantages for athletic players to make impact plays followed by spot up trey shooting volutinary convergence of Philly ball and Okie Ball).

~Philly Ball: Same as Okie ball, but attack first, look for what is given second.

Okie Ball/Philly Ball Weaknesses and Mistakes: Tend to get passive waiting and looking for what the opponent is willing to give them, especially in hi-lo sets where Okie Ball teams especially start standing around playing catch.

~XTReme Muscle Ball--constant rate of half court play minimizing momentum shifts, that can be played in any sets; emphasis on packing paint, push and shove, and kick out to spot up treys.

XTReme Muscle Ball Weaknesses and Mistakes--They don't make runs, they make more TOs if transition speeds up, and they begin to rely on push and shove more and more and on good defense less and less. They lack bounce, mobility and speed.

~Dribble Drive Motion Offense (aka Vance Wahlberg's attack, attack, skip, attack, attack) using spread ball screen sets and athletic players to emphasize breakthroughs and flanking, plus kickouts to spot up trey shooters.

Dribble Drive Motion Offense Weakness and Mistakes: Whether it has good bigs, or not, it relies way too much on perimeter players ability to create off a screen. If the perimeter offender has an off night, the whole offense is out of kilter. And even on a good night, basically, any team allowed to foul that has good, dogged perimeter defenders can neutralize any DDMO offense, keep the game close and win down the stretch. Turn-overs prone.

jaybate 9 years, 2 months ago

Part II

~Princeton--tempo control of scripted plays with lots of screening that force bigs to play far from the basket, while zoning on defense, again to control tempo.

Princeton Weaknesses and Mistakes: Can't work if the screens don't generate the high percentage shots. Can't come back from runs. Disrupt with steals, create even one run, and the Princeton is at a disadvantage.

~Carolina Motion--High trip count system aimed at using defense to trigger quick shooting, followed by Primary and Secondary Breaks, and a resort ot motion offense.

Carolina Motion Weaknesses and Mistakes: Turn-over prone and attracts mostly finesse players; defenses designed to trigger quick shots habituate and so cannot really adapt well to grind it out and the need for frequent stops when transition game bogs down.

~Duke Special Ops ball--what Mike K and his Duke Blue Berets used in March last season. Stay lean, run the motion, but get mean and become deadly and dangerous masters of cheap shotting to intimidate and injure. Basically, train your players to become Green Berets capable of injuring opposing players with cheap shots a hundred different ways and tell them the moment the Goliaths start pushing and fouling to foul for effect; i.e., foul to injure. Go after their best players, too. Mike K will never live down what he did to basketball last season, at least in my mind. He appeared to turn the game of basketball into a special ops military campaign of dirty tricks and dangerous cheap shotting. He has an Army background, so it is not surprising that he resorted to a Special Ops approach for dealing with XTReme Muscle/Thug ball. It worked. And it took basketball another big step down the slippery slope into the Hockey-izing of basketball.

jaybate 9 years, 2 months ago

Part II

~Princeton--tempo control of scripted plays with lots of screening that force bigs to play far from the basket, while zoning on defense, again to control tempo.

Princeton Weaknesses and Mistakes: Can't work if the screens don't generate the high percentage shots. Can't come back from runs. Disrupt with steals, create even one run, and the Princeton is at a disadvantage.

~Carolina Motion--High trip count system aimed at using defense to trigger quick shooting, followed by Primary and Secondary Breaks, and a resort ot motion offense.

Carolina Motion Weaknesses and Mistakes: Turn-over prone and attracts mostly finesse players; defenses designed to trigger quick shots habituate and so cannot really adapt well to grind it out and the need for frequent stops when transition game bogs down.

~Duke Special Ops ball--what Mike K and his Duke Blue Berets used in March last season. Stay lean, run the motion, but get mean and become deadly and dangerous masters of cheap shotting to intimidate and injure. Basically, train your players to become Green Berets capable of injuring opposing players with cheap shots a hundred different ways and tell them the moment the Goliaths start pushing and fouling to foul for effect; i.e., foul to injure. Go after their best players, too. Mike K will never live down what he did to basketball last season, at least in my mind. He appeared to turn the game of basketball into a special ops military campaign of dirty tricks and dangerous cheap shotting. He has an Army background, so it is not surprising that he resorted to a Special Ops approach for dealing with XTReme Muscle/Thug ball. It worked. And it took basketball another big step down the slippery slope into the Hockey-izing of basketball.

jaybate 9 years, 2 months ago

Part III

Duke Special Ops ball Weaknesses and Mistakes: Duke Special Ops ball is just traditional Knight/Mike K ball with vicious cheap shots any time Duke falls down 4 to any kind of team. This is the terrorism-counterterrorism model of basketball. If the opponent uses illegal means to intimidate you that the refs won't call, counter by systematic cheap shots aimed to strike fear and injure until the opponent has had enough. Cheap shots counter XTReme muscle, without the need for muscle. But use of cheap shots becomes a crutch. It becomes the way Duke wins, just as pushing and shoving does in XTReme Muscle. The simple solution is become pre-emptively vicious. Start cheap shots on the tip-off. Shock and awe ASAP. Always head hunt and necktie, but then you become dependent on cheap shots, too. The real key to beating cheap shot artists is to actively avoid the cheap shots. This involves teaching your players to run away from the cheap shots and for team mates to be on the look out for players positioning for a cheap shot and pushing him before he can cheap shot. Cheap shots require an opponent putting himself in positions to be cheap shotted. Don't do it. And proactively help impede the player preparing to cheap shot. Then be ready to play at your best in the stretches when fouls are being called and the Special Ops team loses its advantage.

The above about covers it for what has evolved out there as ways to play in the age of refs swallowing their whistles to keep games in time slots.

If anyone else can think of other approaches being used please post them. I am trying to conceive a way to play uptempo that can win both when the refs are not calling fouls for long stretches, and when they blow the whistles to get control for short stretches.

actorman 9 years, 2 months ago

KoolKeithFreeze, being a fan of a team doesn't mean you have to be in complete denial about a player's weaknesses. I'm as big a Jayhawk fan as the next guy, but I'd be the first to say that there are a LOT of questions about Sherron's ballhandling ability. If you say it's absurd to bring it up, you must have had crimson-and-blue colored blinders on during the countless times he turned it over while trying to force his way past (and through) defenders. Yes, he won a lot of games by taking over at the end, but he also lost a fair number by trying to do too much.

Don't get me wrong, I still love the guy and think he had a great career at KU. But let's not pretend that he didn't have some issues when it came to handling the ball.

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