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Monday, June 14, 2010

Big 12 not dead yet

Source says league could survive, with Oklahoma in North

Big 12 Commissioner Dan Beebe listens to a reporter’s question during a news conference following the final day of spring meetings on June 4.

Big 12 Commissioner Dan Beebe listens to a reporter’s question during a news conference following the final day of spring meetings on June 4.

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Reader poll

Do you think a 10-institution Big 12 would be the best-case scenario for KU?

  • Yes 67% 516 votes
  • No 24% 190 votes
  • Undecided 7% 60 votes

766 total votes.

A source close to the situation told the Journal-World late Sunday night that the Big 12 Conference appears to have moved closer to an agreement with its remaining schools to keep the league together and that Oklahoma University will move to the North Division.

Big 12 Conference may stay intact

Even with two teams jetting for other conferences, reports state the Big 12 may just survive. It's possible a new TV deal may help ease the tensions of the Big 12's ten remaining teams.

The source said it was unknown whether the Big 12 would move forward as a 10-member league or if it would look to add two new members to replace Colorado and Nebraska, which left for the Pac-10 and Big Ten, respectively, last week.

The news Sunday flew under the radar of reports out of Texas that said Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott was on a plane bound for Kansas City, Mo., to meet with KU officials.

“That’s a back-up plan,” the source said. “It looks like the Big 12 is staying together.”

The Big 12 appeared to be all but dead just days ago, but a late move by commissioner Dan Beebe might have saved it. Reports indicated that Beebe lobbied hard this weekend with schools in Texas and Oklahoma to convince them to move forward with the Big 12 schools that remained. His selling point was talk of a reworked television deal that would push the per-school payouts to the nearly $17 million annually that’s close to what the SEC pumps out each year and in the neighborhood of what the Pac-10 was eyeing. What’s more, Beebe was reported to have told the University of Texas that it would have permission to proceed with its own network in the future, something the Longhorns have wanted for years.

This news falls in line with what Oklahoma athletic director Joe Castiglione has said all along.

“I understand people are writing this like the ship has sailed and there really isn’t any way the Big 12 could stay together,” Castiglione told The Oklahoman. “I just don’t think this is true. I think there’s still a way for us to stick together and be viable.

“There’s still proof that 11 or 10 teams together can create some significant value — even more than where we are with 12.”

A meeting of the UT regents scheduled for Tuesday likely will go a long way toward determining the outcome, and concerns remain over Texas A&M’s flirtation with the SEC.

Comments

lv_jhwk 4 years, 4 months ago

Read carefully enough, the comments would indicate that the Big 12-2 would look for two more teams to replace NU and CU. First of all, there is no need for divisions with only ten teams, thus no need to move OU to the North. Secondly, and probably most importantly, its going to be quite difficult to attract the kind of money indicated without a championship game, which would require the conference to have twelve teams.

DocBean 4 years, 4 months ago

I think you're right. I can't imagine that the new TV contract would be so much higher then before without the Denver market, and powerful Lincoln Nebraska TV Market.

I'm guessing they're looking into FedEX U (Memphis) who is willing to pay something like 10 Million to join the Big XII. I wonder who the other team could be. Cincinnati? Utah? or the Cream de la Cream - Notre Dame.

shimjhawk2002 4 years, 4 months ago

if OU is moving to the North that would mean they are adding TCU to the South. My guess would be Memphis also to the North becasuse of the Fedex $10 million. crazy

Rick Arnoldy 4 years, 4 months ago

You want OU in the north so there's a balance of power between the two divisions in football. With all the traditional powers in the south, the championship game is anticlimatic.

shimjhawk2002 4 years, 4 months ago

but unless there are 12 teams there will be no championship anymore.

Rick Arnoldy 4 years, 4 months ago

You're right but I view that as temporary. Two more teams will recieve invites at some point. Otherwise, what's the point of having two divisions?

DevilHawk 4 years, 4 months ago

I still think it would be better for KU to accept an invite from the Pac if offered.

We know that Mizzou still wants to join the Big 10. We also know that an agreement to keep the Big 12 intact will almost certainly place even more power in the hands of UT - yet the sway that UT has is one of the key issues in the conference.

I just don't see either of those issues going away, so I predict that something like this will happen again soon even if the Big 12 remains together for now. I also don't think it's possible to have a better AD during realignment than Lew Perkins, so it would be better to make the switch to a solid conference sometime during this upcoming academic year.

Clarence Haynes 4 years, 4 months ago

I am sure that any new conference agreement would include some dis-incentives for anyone to bolt!

Perhaps Texas can share any portion of its tv network profits that exceed a certain level.

mojayhawk 4 years, 4 months ago

Yes, Yes, Yes. I have thought the same thing, so you know others have also.

Bring in Arkansas, plus LSU or Houston or TCU.
Arkansas plus LSU makes great "cents" and the money would be about the same for them with less travel expense. What a conference that would be!

BUT, the new alignment, if it happens, had better have some teeth in the agreement to prevent a fiasco like this from happening again.

justanotherfan 4 years, 4 months ago

Adding LSU and TCU to the South would once again make the South considerably stronger than the North (with the exception of OU). Part of the downfall of the conference currently is that KU dominates in basketball, but the north is overall weaker in EVERY sport. Football, men's AND women's basketball, baseball, softball, etc. Iowa State, K-State and Colorado were especially guilty of this, but KU is not without fault here. The North needs to get stronger, not by adding teams, but by the North teams (particularly those that are not strong in any sports) improving their showing.

Matt Bowers 4 years, 4 months ago

Thank you pigballin. I've been saying all along that the SEC is the way to go. Think of the match up twice a year between KU and UK!

Krohnutz 4 years, 4 months ago

Yeah man, anybody who thinks we can steal from another BCS conference right now is on drugs.

Why would they leave a stable, revenue sharing conference to join broken, bickering, UT controlled sham of a conference... to make less money on top of that? Any AD or President selling that to their board of regents might as well pack his gear because he won't be employed their long.

Matt Bowers 4 years, 4 months ago

Joining the Pac is not an option for many reasons. The most notable reason is the fact that KU will not travel as well. Basketball games will not start until 10pm on weeknights and that will hurt recruiting and viewing. What will become of the Sprint Center, there is no way that place is going to be used unless it becomes KU's new home. KU will become the NC State of the ACC or Purdue of the Big 10, a school that used to have history. The only options I see is for the Big 12 to stay together, or KU lobby like hell for the SEC or even the Big 10.

What does a Texas television network mean for games that are plaid in Texas? Will I have to have a special channel for that? If schools are going to be this greedy, they need to start paying their players.

This is great news about the Big 12. I'm going to keep throwing out my pitch about the SEC until the dust settles. Keep up the good work Matt and Tom.

Rock Chalk

utahjayhawk 4 years, 4 months ago

Disagree completely. Your argument about time zones is a dog that won't hunt. At most, with an East-West division arrangement, you're talking about a handful of basketball games only that would be impacted. Besides, the Pac 10 currently plays a Thur-Sat/Sun arrangement in bball with combined scheduling (eg playing Oregon and Oregon State in one trip), so impacts to overall travel is minimal. In addition, it's not the time zone change, it's the travel time (!) that would be important and that would be the same traveling to Seattle or Gainsville with your proposal.

No, the Pac 16 is by far the best option, considering the overall benefit to KU as a university, not just considering sports. The move to the SEC would be detrimental overall -- the SEC is a marginal academic conference, probably weaker than the Big XII, which doesn't hold a candle to either the Big 10 or Pac 10.

Finally, this last minute duct-tape chicken-wire Beebe plan is fool's gold. MU will still bolt for the Big 10 if given the chance and A&M may still bolt for the SEC. I can already hear the spin now about how "8 teams can still bring tremendous value, blah, blah, blah".

No, the Big XII is dead and we want to join the Pac 16!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jchief40 4 years, 4 months ago

I doubt we want to join the PAC conference if we are looking at $17 mil per team. Doubt the PAC would get that high.

rockchalk4442 4 years, 4 months ago

believe me my man the sprint center is the least of our worries. and there is no way we end up like nc state.

Todd Simpson 4 years, 4 months ago

well let's just put it this way Nebraska and Colorado just got 10 million lighter in their wallets for bolting like they did

ilikestuff 4 years, 4 months ago

This plan would be a welcome relief for KU,.however, the best and worst about the conference would remain unchanged, Texas...

I couldn't help an ironic chuckle a few days ago listening to Craig James lament the prospect of the Pac-10 (weak conference) stealing the Texas schools from the Big 12 (strong conference). How does it happen?

It made me remember similar thoughts when the Big 8 "rescued" the Texas schools from their dying conference. The ink was hardly dry when the Big 8 offices bolted for Dallas soon to be followed by everything else above the Red River.

While I'll be relieved for KU's sake if the league remains even a little longer I don't see anything changing especially when all the cards are in the basket of one all powerful school, to big to fail. Fatty Mangino spoke truth about UT.

KANSTUCKY 4 years, 4 months ago

That's a little harsh... M&M only spoke the truth when he was talking about somebody's mama.

Maracas 4 years, 4 months ago

The Big 12 could end up being the only conference despised by the fans of its members.

billhawk 4 years, 4 months ago

I agree. How are things going to change when one major reason for all of this was Texas dominates all the other schools in the conference? What happens when they want us to change our name to UT-Lawrence?

Alan Braun 4 years, 4 months ago

This proposal gives UT even more power than it does already. The only reason Texas would be interested in this is that they're finding they won't be able to pull the strings in any other conference the way they do in the B-12. Beebe is a UT tool, always has been. Don't know where he's coming up with these numbers. This is the main issue, other than money, why teams are wanting to bolt in the first place. Tom Osborne has had a thing about Texas from the beginning. If this ship doesn't sink now, it's going to in the near future. I think we go to the P-10 while the going is good, if we get an offer. Otherwise we may not have a place to go to later.

Jeff Kilgore 4 years, 4 months ago

After everything has been said and done, and just about the time that the UT contingent believes that they Big 12 is intact, wouldn't it be hilarious if KU decided to bolt to the Pac 10? Then, because of that move, this would force the remaining five of the South to move. It would be something like having the last laugh.

If all schools stay together, it will be hard to regain trust. Do we ever believe that UT et al aren't secretly looking to move even when they say that they're not?

The key is still A&M, and I have a funny feeling that they're already SEC bound. If they are, then just like KU leaving, nine teams would be a hard sell for UT.

Steve Corder 4 years, 4 months ago

If UT can negotiate a separate TV deal then why not other schools? Could not KU do the same for the basketball program? I don't care what UT does as long as the rules apply to all. If not then let them become a football independent like Notre Dame or let the Big 12 parade into the past.

If OU tried they could rattle the UT cage like A&M has done with talk of the SEC. This is far from over even if Bebee puts the Humpty Dumpty 10 back together with a revised TV deal.

I bet Perkins and Self fully understand the sharks with which they swim.

Martin Rosenblum 4 years, 4 months ago

Some thoughts on a P10(?) affiliation:

Turner Gill would have his hands full with the P10? schools.

Bill Self would wake up every game day with a smile on his face.

Lew Perkins would not be able to go to CA and meet porn stars on the plane anymore (he's only got one year left to do this anyway!).

Terrence Jones would get to see what he missed at KU, up close and personal.

Josh Selby would only have the Big 12 on his resume.

.

Joel Hood 4 years, 4 months ago

Ummmmm... I think it was Curtis Townsend who gave the tickets to the "actress"

KUbsee69 4 years, 4 months ago

It was not Lew on the plane. It was Kurtis.

oldalum 4 years, 4 months ago

Didn't Jones go to Kentucky? What does that have to do with the Pac10?

DocBean 4 years, 4 months ago

I'd rather not go to the Pac 10, not because I don't think KU could win championships there, or because it's too far to travel, or because it will ruin some of our traditional rivalries. I don't want to go to the Pac 10 because I don't want to stay up until 10 or 11PM before our games start on the West Coast.

1977kufan 4 years, 4 months ago

utahjayhawk, It is unfortunate that you cannot take jayhawk off of the end of your blog name. Demeaning and debasing comments such as "The move to the SEC would be detrimental overall -- the SEC is a marginal academic conference, probably weaker than the Big XII, which doesn't hold a candle to either the Big 10 or the Pac 10" are entirely inappropriate. You should have been in my physical chemistry, biochemistry, organic medicinal agents and pharmaceutical chemistry classes. It would have been interesting seeing what you could have done in nine months of human pathology in medical school. These were just some of the classes (and by the way I did very well in these classes at the University of Kansas) that I have taken. One of your "marginal academic" (your printed words, utahjayhawk, not mine) institutions. I know and have met with students who have recently and even remotely graduated from some of those Big Ten and Pac 10 schools. Except for your comments (which are indeed marginal), their fund of knowledge in their area of expertise is limited. I know your excuse for this printed faux pas. You are having episodes of neuronal dysjunctioning. Your synapses are just not connected. Please remove jayhawk from the end of your printed name. Thank you and Rock Chalk, Jayhawks

DevilHawk 4 years, 4 months ago

AAU Membership:

Big 10: 11 of 11 Pac 10: 7 of 10 (Arizona, Berkeley, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington) Big 12: 7 of 12. (Colorado, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Texas, Texas A&M) SEC: 2 of 12 (Florida, Vanderbilt) http://aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476

Research I Status (RU/VH):

Big 10: 11 of 11 Pac 10: 9 of 10 (Arizona, ASU, Berkeley, Oregon State, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, Washington State) Big 12: 8 of 12 (Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas, K-State, Mizzou, Nebraska, Texas, Texas A&M) SEC: 6 of 12 (Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, LSU, Tennessee, Vanderbilt) http://classifications.carnegiefoundation.org/lookup_listings/srp.php?clq={%22basic2005_ids%22%3A%2215%22}&limit=0,50&orderby=sortname&start_page=standard.php

As you can tell, the SEC is far worse than the Big-10, Big-12, and Pac-10 as measured by academics.

You can also tell that the Big-10 is the best conference as measured by academics.

As for the Big-12 v. Pac-10, the numbers are approximately the same, so let's look at overall US News rankings:

Big 12: Texas (47); Texas A&M (61); Colorado (77); Baylor (80); Iowa State (88); Kansas (96); Nebraska (96); Mizzou (102); Oklahoma (102)

Pac 10: Stanford (4); Berkeley (21); UCLA (24); USC (26); Arizona (102); Washington State (106); Oregon (115); ASU (121)

The others are Tier 3 or lower. http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings

The Pac-10 has more prestigious universities than the Big-12. However, the Big-12 has a better core. In terms of conference image, though, most people think in terms of prestige rather than evaluating a conference as a whole. I wanted to include the corresponding engineering rankings, but that information wasn't available. (It tends to paint a different picture of how schools are ranked.)

utahjayhawk 4 years, 4 months ago

First of all, '77, a name change? Ain't happening, for you or anyone else -- so as politely as I can -- you can shove that idea.

Sincerely, though, I apologize that my post obviously offended you so strongly. My intent was not to cast aspersions KU's way – after all, I’m a KU grad. By way of background, I got a BS in Chemical Engineering and went on to get a Masters at KU, which, ironically (given our debate), was a pilot program between the ChE and Pharm Chem depts. I think you mentioned that you took a number of Pharm Chem classes so we both know that KU is a legit top 5 school in this area (ie pharmaceutical research). I took all the classes you listed, except for org med agents and pathology (both of which sound very interesting btw), in addition to several advanced Eng and math courses. I was really interested in pharmaceutics so I went on to get a PhD in that field at another university. I’m not going over this to toot my horn, but at the same time, since you seemed quite hell-bent on dazzling me with your academic accomplishments, I felt compelled to respond and to let you know, that in the particular area you mentioned, you’re in my wheelhouse, so please get off your academic high-horse. Your use of technical jargon associated with certain neurological processes doesn’t impress me in the least. I’m now done with my snippiness and would like to continue a dialogue based on facts.

Back to academic standings, which is where the I rubbed you the wrong way. I would have believed KU to be in the top 3 academic institutions in the former Big XII (along with Texas and Nebraska), but DevilHawk’s excellent research below set me straight on the objective rankings. Actually, we’re quite a bit lower and so is Nebraska. I know these rankings can be quite fluid, so I think in general, I would say that we’re in the upper-half of the former Big XII academically. Hopefully, we can agree on this point.

Now, we get to the rankings of CONFERENCES, which if you reread my post carefully, you will realize that this was my point all along. The academic rankings of conferences (by DevilHawk’s research) were exactly consistent with my informal ranking (in decreasing order): Big 10, Pac 10, Big XII, SEC. Now, you can cherry-pick examples ‘till the cows come home where any school in a lower conference has a better degree in Business, Art History, etc, etc but you can not, under any circumstances, draw a conclusion that the Big XII or SEC is a better academic conference overall than the Big 10 or Pac 10. The facts flat out do not support that conclusion. If you have other information that paints a different picture, I’d be very interested to see these data.

Again, I am sorry that my post rubbed you the wrong way.

In the end, let’s both hope whatever is best for Kansas University overall is what prevails in all of this madness. Personally, though, I still think it’s best to go to the Pac 10 ; )

Dan Harris 4 years, 4 months ago

Funny! and I agree he/she should drop the jayhawk

kansas25 4 years, 4 months ago

If the Texas and Oklahoma schools leave, I don't think joining the Mountain West, or letting them join the remaining Big 12 schools is a bad thing. In football, TCU, Boise State, BYU and Utah were all ranked this season. In basketball, New Mexico, BYU, UNLV all were ranked or receiving votes. San Diego State wasn't bad either. I'm just saying, it might be a decent option. And don't you think that some of the MWC schools could benefit with recruiting if joined with some Big 12 schools? And, with our football teams not doing so great, couldn't the Mountain West benefit us?

ProudKansan 4 years, 4 months ago

I wish our conference would be proactive for once. If we are keeping the 10 schools together...why aren't we the ones going after other schools to make our conference stronger??? Convince the 10 to stay together and go after Memphis, Arkansas, TCU, Louisville, Cincy, Houston... Pick members to make our conference stronger and we will never have to worry about this crap again.

Benjamin Piehler 4 years, 4 months ago

posted this somewhere else, but ill put it here too. i am no longer really interested in maintaining a rivalry with a mizzou who will bolt at the first better deal, or ksu who never really brought much to the table. saving the b12 is just bending over for UT who will demand more and more. assuming a&m goes sec, I really want to be in the last spot for the p16...

i just dont see the big 12 expanding besides some mwc teams which frankly, is not as good an option for KU as the pac 16. we have alot to gain academically and athletically. now it looks like we just have to convince someone that we are the better choice than utah.

blogthis 4 years, 4 months ago

To all of you Mountain West huggers:

The top basketball recruits will not associate themselve with the Mountain West.

This would destroy our basketball program in a heartbeat!

Cody Stumma 4 years, 4 months ago

Memphis seemed to recruit just fine despite itself being in the C-USA.

shimjhawk2002 4 years, 4 months ago

I almost feel like it's Christmas morning and when I came downstairs I only had no presents. Don't get me wrong, staying together makes the most sense and especially if the payout is $17 million per. I just think there is going to be a lot of mistrust. If Mizzou gets offered for the Big 10 they are gone. Who knows maybe A&M will like what they say with the SEC and go someday. A lot of unknowns. I hope they add some newbies in Memphis and TCU so that at least the balance of power is diluted a little from Texas and OU and A&M. Regardless of what happens are options seem a lot better than even 48 hours ago.

Jacobpaul81 4 years, 4 months ago

No. No more Texas schools. We can hold onto Baylor for competition purposes in the Dallas market, but Texas schools beyond that are a waste. They eat all the profits and dictate to everyone else how things are going to be run. We'd be much better off talking to Big East football schools and Memphis than talking to TCU or the Texas schools we already have.

KANSTUCKY 4 years, 4 months ago

I agree with a lot of posters that the Pac 10 is going to make for quite a few late games and that will really hurt our east coast exposure. The same goes for the Mountain West since they are also later. I prefer to keep our Texas, NY (a little help here would be nice), and Chicago market areas. That seems to be our bread and butter and it would hurt us to lose it. ESPN is not going to be all that interested in a primetime MBB game vs. Wyoming.

Jacobpaul81 4 years, 4 months ago

Go away Texas. Go away A&M. Go away Tech.

Louisville, Cincy, WVU, Pitt, Memphis... we'd love to work with you guys.

TIGERmom 4 years, 4 months ago

As a Memphis basketball fan, we'd love to play KU, K State, Louisville and Cincy on a regular basis. We could have a great conference, with good balance, and lots of great games.

chriz 4 years, 4 months ago

Okay, KU fans, let's think.

Keeping the Big XII in tact is a terrible idea unless Beebe is fired and everything is restructured. Beebe is offering a life support plan that only MATCHES what other conferences are already offering. If the Big XII wants to get serious, they need to stop being reactionary and start being proactive. They need to offer a) something more than what the other conferences are currently offering, and b) a more balanced deal so that we don't go through this again. As it stands now, what other school in their right mind would want to join?

Mountain West: No. No, no, and no. I realize this is all about football, and if all we had was our football team, sure. That would be a fine conference for us. But we have a top-three basketball program that needs better than the Mountain frickin-West. We're not concerned about the MWC eventually becoming a BCS conference. Here's what this conference lacks: recruits. Unless, of course, you want to schedule a heck of a non-conference schedule and hire Calipari to "woo" some recruits. The hotbeds for recruiting are the northeast, the southeast, Chicago area, Texas, SoCal, and maybe the northwest. Which of these areas are primarily represented in the MWC? Still thinking? ... ? Has anyone in these hotbeds even heard of the MWC?

Here's my order of preference: 1) Big 10 2) Big East/ACC 3) SEC 4) Pac 10 5) Big XII, only if a few b-ball schools area added 6) MWC

I seriously hope that #6 doesn't happen. We're better than that.

utahjayhawk 4 years, 4 months ago

  • 1, although Big 10 hasn't come calling. I hope Pac 10 still works out but that scenario seems to be barely alive right now. Man, a lot can change in 24 hours.

Ron Franklin 4 years, 4 months ago

This is becoming more tiring than Nancy Grace.

"oh my, a TRAGEDY in Midwest, as greed continues to destroy tradition & excellence"

Big10Jerry 4 years, 4 months ago

With all of the bribes and carrots being extended to Texas in an effort to keep the Big 12 intact, I think the remaining schools would be even MORE likely to make the move to another conference rather than stay in the newly aligned and now renamed "Big Texas Conference"

BCRavenJHawkfan 4 years, 4 months ago

To me the bigger story is how the hell the Big XII got into this predicament in the first place. Beebe has been AWOL. The Big XII should have been strengthening its position long before these PAC 10/Big 10 cherry pickers surfaced.

Yes, it's nice to see the TV dollars increase, but if it's there now, it was there 6 months ago or a year ago.

It's also interesting that some speculate the super conference push is to ultimately divorce those schools from the NCAA.

Hank Cross 4 years, 4 months ago

Congrats to UT on pulling off "the long con." Now for the coup de grace we have UT's throne dwarf, Beebe, playing the Good Cop.

afilmer 4 years, 4 months ago

a couple of takeaways from all of this to this point:

1) Mizzou got played, and it is not lost on this KU fan that their openness to move away from the big 12 is what got all of this started. the big 10 used them to open a conversation with Nebraska, and I for one, will never forget the fact that it was MU's insecurities that drove a wedge in our conference.

2) K-State is begging for us to drag them along. I think it's funny that a fan base that continually wants to scream that they are as prestigious an institution as we are, is now beholden to our compassion on them. I'm taking screen shots of every facebook update and tweet from my K-State friends to use against them at a later date.

Joel Hood 4 years, 4 months ago

afilmer - go ahead and post some of these comments. I'd love to see how pathetic they are. I can only imagine what they will say if KU ends up in a BCS & they end up in the Missouri Valley (lol) - it will somehow be KU's fault.

afilmer 4 years, 4 months ago

my favorite - from a thread of wildcat fans (sorry, I'm friends with some of them)

G: Coach Self, you are right in thinking that what's best for Kansas State is best for Kansas. Please, take us with you! M: Don't bow down to the evil empire. G: I'll bow down to anyone that will help us stay out of the MWC M: Yeah, I know. Me too. K: I'd lick his left one if he'd bring us to the ACC. M. Yeah. Me too.

jchief40 4 years, 4 months ago

Something tells me ESPN is wrong. Dead wrong. Maybe it's my wishful thinking.

chriz 4 years, 4 months ago

I think the latest is the ESPN report.

Benjamin Piehler 4 years, 4 months ago

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1094038

chip brown has been one of the best reporting on this thing. id be inclined to believe him. id still rather leave than stay in a 10 team big 12, but i guess weve never had many choices in this thing from the start.

KGphoto 4 years, 4 months ago

Their gone.

Beebe's plan would be a band aid, at best, anyway. The BCS wants (and if you haven't noticed, they get what they want) is to have 4 super-conferences that play a 3 game playoff for the BCS title. It would silence the growing anti-BCS mob and they would still be able to control the loot.

Eventually the remaining conferences are gonna be Pac16, Big10 (16), ACC, SEC

Kansas will be in one of those conferences.

chriz 4 years, 4 months ago

That sounds good to me, KHphoto. Let's hope Texas bolts for the Pac10. By staying in the Big XII, it seems we're in love with this old car that's really no good for anything. It looks great on the outside, although there are signs of rust. We almost sold it because the tranny went out, but we replaced the tranny and got it going again. Now it looks like the engine's about to go out.

Let it go, guys. It's time to move on.

Hank Cross 4 years, 4 months ago

Hawk-At first I thought Chip Brown was just a UT sock puppet, then I came to believe him, now it is clear that he was either a useful idiot or willing accomplice in UT's disinformation game. The War is over and the B12 North lost.

sunflower100 4 years, 4 months ago

Not sure why KU wants to hang onto the Big 12 so badly. Are they that worried about Brownback and other politicians insisting that they stay in the same division as K-state? Is it really worth giving UT all of that power to stay in the same division?

At this point I don't think UT or the OK schools are the teams that people have to worry about leaving? Think about it.

Why was A & M going through all of that trouble just to get into the SECC? It seems odd that they would go through all of that trouble just to stay in the Big 12 now (especially if they do not want to be in the same division as UT anymore).

Benjamin Piehler 4 years, 4 months ago

i wont shed any tears if its over and we get another bcs invite. i dont care where we land anymore, just no reforming the league with new teams and please no MWC.

trueblue9 4 years, 4 months ago

Can anyone explain why the Pac-10 would want TT or Ok St. other than perhaps Texas and OK demanding it as part of their willingness to join up?

DevilHawk 4 years, 4 months ago

Purely to get UT into the conference - which would then backfire.

Rick Arnoldy 4 years, 4 months ago

Regarding OSU, so that they can get at Pickens' money.

trueblue9 4 years, 4 months ago

I suppose so, but the Pac already has an OSU that wears orange and black and sucks at everything.

GarySv 4 years, 4 months ago

While I'm a Nebraska fan, I wish you all the luck in the world in holding the Big 12 together. I don't feel that KU, KSU, ISU and Mizzou are getting a fair shake if the league folds (although I'm a little less sympathetic toward Missouri, which was lobbying so hard to join the Big Ten). What a dizzying situation! It changes from hour to hour. TCU to the Big 12 is an interesting idea. I wonder if the Frogs would be as enthusiastic today as they would have been two days ago before Boise State joined the conference. The Mountain West is a growing league and TCU seems a great fit for it. But since money rules, I'm guessing TCU would end up in the Big 12 if offered the opportunity. Rubbing elbows with the big Texas schools would be too hard to pass up, I'm a-thinkin'!!

Joel Hood 4 years, 4 months ago

Gary - go away and take your corncob with you. We all "listened to the cornhuskers bail..." last Friday. No one here cares about your thoughts.

lv_jhwk 4 years, 4 months ago

I guess I do care a bit.

If the reports about Utah to the Pac 10 are true, then I believe TCU would be very much in play for the Big 12. Sadly, Boise State would be the ones left out once again should those two leave.

iluvdbskxjayhawks 4 years, 4 months ago

Thanks for caring! Some people are just bitter that NU left. We'll miss our rivalry with you guys.

floridajayhawks 4 years, 4 months ago

Not a good headline since ESPN is reporting that Texas and Pac10 are reaching an agreement.

trueblue9 4 years, 4 months ago

I think Texas is out (Austin is the Berkeley of the South afterall). If Tech can piggyback into the Pac-10, I'm sure it will. But, why would we believe that the Pac-10 would want Tech - I haven't seen a single named source state this to be fact. I know there is already a JuCo in the Pac, but why would the rest of the California schools want a technical college in the mix? If I were the Pac commish, I'd be quick to snatch up Tex, Ok, Ok. St, KU and Utah, and leave Tech to form its own subdivision with its rivals ITT Tech, Devry and the University of Phoenix.

boomrsoonr26 4 years, 4 months ago

Texas is leveraging their own prestigious TV channel (promised by Beebe) as the deal maker with the Pac-11. If the Pac-11 will let them do it, theyll be onboard to jump ship. Bargaining chips, thats all this is.

NULaw2010 4 years, 4 months ago

I agree completely. Wouldn't be surprised if Beebe and Chip Brown at OrangeBloods.com get paid handsomely under the table. Scenarios for Texas: Best case - they get their own TV channel, supermajority of revenue sharing in Big 12, and power to call all the shots (championship game, Big 12 offices, etc.) Worst case - they go to the Pac?? and still get their own TV channel but have to share revenue and power equally. I hope KU gets an invite from the Pac?? soon so they can bolt.

jaybate 4 years, 4 months ago

"Texas Is Screwed Once It Forms Its Own TV Network and If They Don't Know It They Will Learn the Hard Way in One Year"

~The very best thing that could happen for KU is for Texas, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech to join the Pac Ten with Colorado. Keep OU and OSU, which OU would do to stay the big cheese in a central time zone division. Add SMU, or TCU, or Houston, or all three, to get the Texas TV markets. then add eastern time zone teams, and/or merge with an eastern time zone conference. If the Big East and ACC won't merge with the Big 12, then The B12 needs to cherry pick 2-3 schools from each conference with good football and basketball programs: Florida State, Virginia Tech and Georgia Tech in the ACC, plus West Virginia, Cinncinati, and Pitt would be good for starters. These form the eastern time zone division of Big 12, or Big 16. The conference would then have the perfect blend of eastern and central time zone teams. Voila!

~Alas, Texas can't leave the Big 12, unless it can destroy the B12, because if the Big 12 survives, the B12 admits SMU and Houston and TCU in an eye blink and that counter programming would seriously hurt the Texas schools in the Pac Ten, making the largely unviable members.

~Truth? Texas can't destroy the Big 12 unless it takes OU and OSU with it. Boone Pickens isn't exactly in love with the Texas oilagarchs. OU has no incentive to go to the Pac Ten, because if OU stays in the Big 12 the Big 12 is a BCS conference.

~Truth? Texas is probably screwed. Beebe is their lap dog and they are trying to make this look like Texas is going to get what it wants--the TV contract--and it will stay. But here is the thing: if Texas imposes its own separate TV contract, the thing for the rest of the Big 12 schools to do then is agree, let the set it up, then bolt away from UT-Austin, and form a new conference with everyone but UT-Austin. The the Pac Ten won't take a UT-Austin team with its own network. And the Pac Ten has no use for TTech or TAM. TAM might go to the SEC, which would be great, too, except that the SEC needs TAM like a hole in the head. Texas will be just as screwed as Notre Dame has become trying to go it alone all these years.

~Why KSU wants to tag along with KU?

KU budget $1.08 Billion (FY 2011 proposed) KSU budget $337 Million (FY 2010)

A billion dollars buys more friends than a third of a billion. :-)

johnnyphoton 4 years, 4 months ago

Jaybate, don't know who you are, but your Posts are so darned good.

trueblue9 4 years, 4 months ago

I know who Jaybate is. He's Johnny Photon.

sunflower100 4 years, 4 months ago

Can someone please explain why KU's position is to hang onto the Big 12? Are they being forced to stick with K-State? I think long term they would benefit more in a different conference even if it is the Big East.

Jack Wilson 4 years, 4 months ago

Sunflower100: Whay stay in the Big 12 - The quality of the remaining teams in the Big 12; the travel costs; instability of Big East #2; lack of another reasonable alternative.

Jayhawk444 4 years, 4 months ago

What is TCU's beef with Baylor? I've seen that come up a couple of times, but no explanation.

qrex 4 years, 4 months ago

Baylor used political pressure to get TCU's spot in the Big 12. Frogs have been stuck in mid-majors since that time.

FLJHK 4 years, 4 months ago

Big 12 hoops will never be the same without the Buffs and Huskers.

kubball99 4 years, 4 months ago

The only thing it means is we lose out on at least 4 wins every year.

Tony Bandle 4 years, 4 months ago

Obvious advantages for the new Big12 Minus 2:

1] Texas stays in and rules the South..what's new? 2] OU stays in and rules the North...just call them Nebraska South 3] The BCS conference rating remains. 4] KU loses to a team in Red and White in football every year..it's just OU not NU..nothing changes. 5] Kansas still kicks the crap out of everyone in basketball...nothing changes. 6] Everybody gets more money.....just that Texas gets more of the more money. 7] We all get to bed at a decent hour after the games. 8] We all actually get to go to some of the games. 9] The Big Twelve becomes the Big Ten and the Big Ten becomes The Big Twelve, forever confusing Mushberger, Knight, Vitale and Rafferty. 10] This new conference will last about as long as an ice cream cone in Hell!!

Krohnutz 4 years, 4 months ago

Let me fix your list:

1] Texas stays in and rules the Big 12... what's new? 2] OU moves to the north so Dan Beebe can avoid anymore strange tiebreaker situations when/if they go to a 12 team league, because he is spineless to say "no" to Texas... again... what's new? 6] Everybody gets more money.....just that Texas gets more of the more money. Unless Dan is wrong (Not possible, right?) and the TV contracts don't pay out as much. OR we get this jealousy thing going again when the SEC and Big 10 get their new contracts and they make more than us.

And #10 is right on the money.

There, fixed.

Benjamin Piehler 4 years, 4 months ago

looks like we are probably going forward with the 10 team thing, which in the long run is a bad choice, I think, but it keeps our bball program afloat. its clearly better than the mwc option, but for a second there I was thinking we could be in the pac 10 or the big east, which I would see as an improvement than the 10 team idea. nobody is trusting anyone in the reformed conference. it wont last 10 years.

lets remember there is still a meeting between the pac 10 and Ku tonight, which is still in my mind the best option. though unlikely.

the pac 10 can put some pressure on UT by offering an invite to KU (unlikely that KU would accept w/o texas leaving). that being said, when the pac 10 was exploring options, one of them was only taking colorado and utah, so im not going to be surprised if that happens either.

Benjamin Piehler 4 years, 4 months ago

i guess its not sure if there is still a meeting scheduled or not, my apologies. im hoping there is.

sunflower100 4 years, 4 months ago

It KU don't think KU going to another division would hurt the basketball team. As long as they end up in the Pac 10 or Big East. While I agree that KU's basketball staying compative is important, don't sell out the football team. Who's to say that the football team can't be a lot more compative in the future.

My personal opinion is KU would be better off joining the Pac 10 or the Big East. As has been pointing out this conference might not last another 10 years. Based on the quote by the Head of Regents it sounds like they are too worried about staying in the division as K-State. If

Lance Hobson 4 years, 4 months ago

The bleeding and panic needs to stop. Texas needs to be the one to stop it. If they manage that and save the Big 12, I will never say a bad word about them ever again.

Lance Hobson 4 years, 4 months ago

The bleeding and panic needs to stop. Texas needs to be the one to stop it. If they manage that and save the Big 12, I will never say a bad word about them ever again.

Lance Hobson 4 years, 4 months ago

The bleeding and panic needs to stop. Texas needs to be the one to stop it. If they manage that and save the Big 12, I will never say a bad word about them ever again.

Lance Hobson 4 years, 4 months ago

The bleeding and panic needs to stop. Texas needs to be the one to stop it. If they manage that and save the Big 12, I will never say a bad word about them ever again.

Lance Hobson 4 years, 4 months ago

The bleeding and panic needs to stop. Texas needs to be the one to stop it. If they manage that and save the Big 12, I will never say a bad word about them ever again.

Lance Hobson 4 years, 4 months ago

Oops. LJW, can you gt rid of the duplicates? Mahalo.

JHawkU75 4 years, 4 months ago

So, it's looking increasingly like a Big 10 with 12 members and a Big 12 with 10 members.

Once the Big 12 rights itself, it would seem time to consider adding a few more teams if for no other reason than to bolster conference prestige.

Concessions given to Oklahoma and Texas might be a powerful lure for some, with the promise of moving to a BCS conference might be a powerful lure for others.

My top candidates for 6 positions:

  1. Notre Dame (including football)
  2. Louisville
  3. BYU
  4. Houston
  5. TCU
  6. Memphis
  7. Utah
  8. Air Force
  9. Rice
  10. Arkansas

Rice in particular has academics going for it. Most (except Arkansas) are in substantial media markets and have had multiple bowl appearances in recent years.

Teams would play everyone once in basketball but play only within their division in football, allowing more money-making (or confidence-inducing) non-conference games before a highly anticipate inter-division championship game.

With six of these teams in the fold, we could easily forget Colorado and probably Nebraska, too. Trading both for just Notre Dame would actually elevate the conference. And the Oklahoma and Texas deals may be just what the Irish have been waiting for, and failing to hear, from the Big 10.

Randy Bombardier 4 years, 4 months ago

If we have to expand or die my preferences are:

Arizona Arizona State Arkansas Utah TCU Memphis Louisville BYU Kentucky ND? Fat chance

How do we decide whom we should invite? Television value

Why would anyone leave the SEC? Pride, tired of being buried in football. [namely, Arkansas, but applies to Kentucky. Big12 better basketball conference (Aimed at Kentucky...imagine our rivalry...remember when we beat them by what 70 points or so in the Phog? We could remind them every year)

How many members? Whatever it takes to get stability as a minimum, but imagine a conference with 20 members and what kind of revenue our BBtourney will generate. Oh, and if Texas is going to get preferential treatment then we should too in the basketball arena. The more games one plays in the tourney, the more revenue.

jayhawkcat 4 years, 4 months ago

Just be glad that the whinners NU and Cu are gone. NU dragged the big 12 down and now that they are history, the big 12 remainders are in better shape.

Lance Hobson 4 years, 4 months ago

I really hope NU falls on their faces. I really do.

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