Originally published January 30, 2010 at 04:21p.m., updated January 30, 2010 at 09:54p.m.

FINAL: Clutch Collins helps sink KSU, 81-79, in overtime

Kansas guard Sherron Collins gets a bucket over Kansas State forward Wally Judge after being fouled with seconds remaining in overtime Saturday, Jan. 30, 2010 at Bramlage Coliseum.

Kansas guard Sherron Collins gets a bucket over Kansas State forward Wally Judge after being fouled with seconds remaining in overtime Saturday, Jan. 30, 2010 at Bramlage Coliseum.


KU-Kansas State

Box score

Reader poll

Which Jayhawk was most vital in the overtime period of KU's 81-79 victory over Kansas State?

  • Sherron Collins 63% 2098 votes
  • Cole Aldrich 21% 721 votes
  • Tyshawn Taylor 11% 369 votes
  • Other 2% 95 votes

3283 total votes.

Audio clips

KU-Kansas State basketball

Reader poll

Who was KU's first-half MVP against Kansas State?

  • Marcus Morris 17% 3 votes
  • Cole Aldrich 76% 13 votes
  • Tyshawn Taylor 5% 1 vote
  • Other 0% 0 votes

17 total votes.

Get all the latest KU basketball reports

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Reader poll

Who will score the most points in tonight's game?

  • KU's Sherron Collins 45% 45 votes
  • KU's Cole Aldrich 12% 12 votes
  • KU's Marcus Morris 30% 30 votes
  • KSU's Jacob Pullen 9% 9 votes
  • KSU's Denis Clemente 2% 2 votes
  • Other 2% 2 votes

100 total votes.

GameDay Cram Session: Kansas State online editor Jesse Newell and Journal-World sports editor Tom Keegan take a look at what to expect from the Kansas basketball team's matchup against Kansas State.

FINAL: KU defeats KSU, 81-79

Collins checks back in, and just in the nick of time. Off the inbounds, he takes it to the rim, putting in a floater off the glass for two with a foul. That’s also the fifth foul on Judge, who had an impressive game with 12 points and nine rebounds.

The best free-three shooter in the conference leaves the free throw short, but Aldrich gets the rebound. KU burns some time, and Morningstar is fouled with 4.3 seconds left. He makes both free throws. KU goes up by five.

Pullen hits a deep three at the buzzer, but it’s not enough.

KU comes away with a gritty two-point win.

KU 77/KSU 76 — 16.2 seconds left in overtime

Clemente misses a tough three from the top. Markieff comes down with the crucial defensive rebound.

With a five-second difference between the game clock and shot clock, Martin elects not to foul. Gutsy call by him.

KU calls timeout to set up a play.

KU 77/KSU 76 — 53.5 seconds left in overtime

Xavier checks in.

Aldrich gathers the ball after an out-of-bounds pass, shakes for a move, then puts in a turn-around. KU up one.

KU gets a block, then gathers the rebound. The Jayhawks are still stale offensively, and with the shot clock running down, Taylor is called for a charge on a drive. Xavier checks back out.

Martin calls timeout.

KSU 76/KU 75 — 2:16 left in overtime

Sutton puts in a shot over Aldrich, but KU’s big man avoids his fifth foul, which would cripple KU.

Taylor is fouled on a drive, but he only gets one of two free throws. KU down one.

No Xavier. He hasn’t played in a long time.

Kelly gets an offensive rebound, and Taylor fouls him to save a two. Kelly misses both, so good foul by Taylor.

Taylor with another drive, putting in a tough shot off the glass with a foul. With KU’s offense so stagnant, Taylor is taking advantage of KSU’s overpursuing defense. Taylor’s makes the free throw after a KSU lane violation. KU up two.

Pullen with a three from the top. KU lost him around a screen.

Markieff Morris hits Morningstar on a backdoor cut, and the junior guard lays it in for two. KU once against counterattacks KSU’s aggressive defense.

Collins comes out of the game, grabbing his left hamstring. Reed checks in (and still not Xavier).

Judge gets an offensive rebound, and he hits two free throws. KSU up one.

KU 69/KSU 69 — End of regulation

Collins falls down after getting a pass with 17 seconds left. He gets tied up, but the arrow is pointing to the Jayhawks.

Collins loses his dribble, and after picking up the ball, his pass is stolen away by Sutton. With the clock winding down, Sutton dribbles to the top of the key, but before he gets a shot up, Reed pokes the ball away as time expires. The KSU fans clamor for a foul, but none is called. From under the basket, it looked like a clean pick.

We’re going to overtime.

KU 69/KSU 69 — 21 seconds left in 2nd half

Taylor gets a huge steal, picking off a Clemente pass. He follows with a horrible play, though, turning it over on a pass up top. McGruder steals it, puts in a jumper, and is fouled by Morningstar. Collins can’t believe it. KSU ties it up after McGruder’s free throw.

Self calls timeout with 21 seconds left and 20 left on the shot clock.

KU 69/KSU 66 — 1:10 left in 2nd half

Sutton takes it straight at Aldrich, and with four fouls, Aldrich is forced to simply put both hands straight in the air. He still blocks the shot, then gets fouled by KSU on the rebound.

Aldrich makes one of two free throws, but Morningstar tips the rebound back out to Collins. Huge intangible play for the Jayhawks. Taylor is fouled on a drive, and he makes both free throws. Big two-point swing created by Morningstar.

Pullen misses a fadeaway three, but KSU grabs the offensive board. Martin calls timeout.

KU 66/KSU 66 — 2:15 left in 2nd half

After two free throws from Clemente, KU is whistled for a five-second call on the inbounds. Crucial turnover for KU.

Back to a man defense for KU. Kelly throws in a sky-hook over Aldrich. Tough, tough shot, but great execution over a tall target.

Taylor is fouled on a shot, and he makes two free throws to tie it back up with 3:04 left.

Pullen misses a three, and Markieff hustles to knock the ball off of a KSU player. That's a big 50-50 ball for KU.

Markieff corrals his own miss, and he’s fouled by Samuels. That’s Samuels’ fifth foul, so both teams now have a key player disqualified because of whistles.

Markieff misses both tries. KSU calls timeout.

KU 64/KSU 62 — 3:34 left in 2nd half

Samuels falls down on an offensive rebound, and Marcus Morris is whistled for his fourth foul even though he didn’t even touch Samuels. Marcus was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Collins hits a long three, but Pullen follows with a long three of his own. Collins, as one might predict, jacks up a quick three to answer Pullen that misses. Pullen answers with a drive and dish to Judge, who dunks it home to give KSU a two-point lead.

Timeout KU, as Collins needs to not get caught up in a one-on-one Chicago battle with Pullen.

Kelly with an ugly fadeaway, but the brick bounces in. Xavier Henry follows with a drive and tough two off the glass.

Sutton takes it to the rim, and he puts it in with a foul on Marcus Morris. That’s five for Marcus. Big loss for KU.

Morningstar with a huge three from the corner to put KU up by two. No hesitation on the shot from the junior.

KU 52/KSU 49 — 7:28 left in 2nd half

Pullen with another tough jumper. KSU isn’t missing mid-range shots, even though that hasn’t been its strength this season.

Jeff Withey — in his first action — tosses a bad pass to Reed that is stolen. Pullen lays it in on the other end, and KSU has regained the lead. Self calls timeout, and Withey checks out.

Taylor turns it over on a pass, though it sure looked like a KSU player kicked it. Self stomps for a foul, but Clemente puts in a layup on the other end. This is the loudest it’s been all game.

KU looks passive offensively. KSU’s zone has flustered the Jayhawks, who haven’t attacked it aggressively.

Samuels hits a free throw, and it’s a 7-0 run for KSU.

Collins drains a deep three just when KU needs it. Meanwhile, Pullen is hurt afterwards, laying on the floor. After checking the monitors, the officials must not have seen any flagrant contact, as no one is whistled for a foul or ejected.

Morningstar gets another steal, and Collins finishes on the other end as KU regains the one-point lead. Nice bounceback for the Jayhawks right when all seemed to be spiraling out of control.

Big block and rebound for Aldrich. That’s a brave play for the big man when he has three fouls.

Xavier Henry scraps for an offensive rebound, and after ripping it away, he drains a 15-foot shot. Self loves the toughness, shouting encouragement to Henry.

Aldrich with a terrible foul on a reach-in. That’s his fourth whistle, and he’ll surely sit for at least a couple minutes.

KU 45/KSU 42 — 11:38 left in 2nd half

Clemente gets a three-point play, putting in a floater with a foul. KSU’s fans are starting to get back into it.

Aldrich makes a nice move, but misses the short shot. He gets his own miss, but then bricks a wild, twirling shot.

Samuels puts in an 18-footer, and Self calls for timeout. The Jayhawks look rattled for the first time since the opening minutes, but they still have a three-point lead.

Marcus Morris misses, and KU is in an extended drought.

Kelly hits another long jumper, but Collins — who has been silent lately — answers with a jumper.

Marcus Morris picks up a foul underneath, and KSU will shoot the bonus the rest of the way. KU has to avoid fouls. I would think Self will be switching back to a zone because of the whistles.

KU 42/KSU 34 — 15:47 left in 2nd half

Pullen hits a long two, but Marcus Morris answers with a fadeaway from five feet. He looks more comfortable with that shot than a putback layup at this point in his career.

Here are the players with at least two fouls for each team:


Aldrich 2, Marcus Morris 2, Taylor 2.

Kansas State

Pullen 2, Colon 2, Clemente 2, Samuels 2, Judge 2.

KU 40/KSU 32 — 17:34 left in 2nd half

Aldrich with a tough turn-around on the baseline. He had missed four straight shots before that.

Aldrich misses, but Marcus Morris cleans up with the rebound and stickback. Self loves it, pumping both fists in front of him in celebration.

Morningstar pokes away a steal, and he draws an intentional foul call on Clemente. Morningstar makes both shots.

Xavier Henry tries to go one-on-one, and his dribble is stolen away. He gets the immediate hook from Self, and the two have a few words before Henry takes his spot on the bench.

Morningstar drains a three from the top, and he holds three fingers up on his right hand, a la Collins. Morningstar has been huge for KU to start the second half.

Frank Martin calls timeout with his team trailing 40-32.

KU scoring — Aldrich 10, Marcus Morris 7, Taylor 4, Collins 4, X. Henry 2, Morningstar 2, Reed 2.

KU was 12-for-27 from the field (44.4 percent), 6-for-11 from the free-throw line (54.5 percent) and 1-for-4 from three (25 percent).

KSU was 12-for-30 from the floor (40 percent), 3-for-5 from the free-throw line (60 percent) and 3-for-8 from three (37.5 percent).

Both teams had 19 rebounds at half. KU had eight turnovers to KSU’s seven.

Halftime thoughts

Great job by KU limiting KSU’s free-throw attempts. It probably can’t hold up through two halves, but the Wildcats have had to rely on jumpshots to stay in the game.

Marcus Morris, besides missing two easy layups, has shown good energy for KU. He leads all players with nine rebounds and also has added a couple of hustle plays.

My, how Xavier Henry has fallen. Just eight minutes for him with three turnovers and also a forced shot that was rejected by three different Wildcats. Many considered Henry to be KU’s X-Factor today, but in his time out there, he hasn't contributed much at all.

One positive for KU: Pullen and Clemente combined to make just 4 of 15 shots in the first half.

KU 31/KSU 30 — Halftime

KU goes back to the Triangle-and-two. Wally Judge hits a long jumper against it. Judge is already above his season average for points (four today, 3.4 per game this season).

The Jayhawks have done a great job of forcing the ball inside. Aldrich gets it again inside, and he’s fouled by Pullen.

Smart play by Pullen, who flops into Aldrich to draw the big man’s second foul. Self points to his temples telling Aldrich to be smarter. Aldrich will sit for the rest of the half.

Judge with another offensive rebound, sticking in a KSU miss. This freshman coming-out party against KU resembles what Pullen did two years ago against the Jayhawks in Manhattan.

Markieff Morris comes back in with his left ankle wrapped tightly.

KU has a shot-clock violation in its final possession of the half, but it’s not all bad, as the Jayhawks waste all but 2.4 seconds on the game clock.

Pullen misses a half-courter, and KU takes a 31-30 lead into halftime.

KU 26/KSU 23 — 3:41 left in 1st half

Collins curls around a screen and hits a layup. That breaks an 0-for-4 start for him.

Pullen hits a three with Morningstar all over him. Not much you can do about that if you’re KU. The Wildcats are 3-for-7 from deep (42.9 percent) so far.

KSU is overplaying defensively, and the flipside is that the Wildcats are vulnerable to dribble penetration. Tyrel Reed takes advantage, taking his man to the bucket before putting in a short floater off the glass. That’s not typically his shot, but it was a good job of recognizing that a dribble drive is what the defense is giving him.

KU 21/KSU 16 — 7:00 left in 1st half

KSU’s aggressiveness is paying off. KU already has five team fouls. Remember, the Wildcats average 33 free throws per game.

Collins with a lob to Taylor, who dunks it in on the break. That ties it at 14.

Taylor with an awful entry pass that bounces off Marcus Morris’ hands and out of bounds. The pass was way too high, and he was only a few feet away.

Another nice entry pass from Morningstar, and Marcus Morris finishes with a layup and foul. That’s Marcus’ first points (and shot) of the game.

KU has gone to a weird defense. I don’t have a good angle, but it looks like a Triangle-and-two. So far so good, as KU gets a missed shot from Clemente and a KSU turnover.

KU scraps for another tough offensive rebound, and Marcus Morris drains a three. On the next possession, Marcus hits a turn-around.

Markieff Morris is hurt underneath the near basket, and it looks like a left ankle injury. He walks off under his own power but gingerly.

KSU 14/KU 12 — 11:45 left in 1st half

Five turnovers for KU in the first five minutes. I think it’s safe to say KU won’t win if it continues to give it away once per minute.

Markieff Morris gets a nice bounce pass from Brady Morningstar, and Markieff is fouled on the way up. That’s two fouls on KSU big man Luis Colon, so expect the Jayhawks to continue to cram the ball inside.

Clemente puts in a deep three, giving KSU its first lead at 9-8.

Nice hustle by Markieff, who sprints to slam a ball off a KSU player before it sails out of bounds. Aldrich turns the possession into points, following a Tyshawn Taylor miss with a tip-in.

KSU isn’t double-teaming Aldrich. The KU big man fools Wally Judge with an upfake, drawing a foul on the way up. Aldrich 3-for-3 from the floor and 2-for-2 from the free-throw line for eight points.

Jamar Samuels is whistled for a hold, and that’s his second foul. KSU’s big players are in some serious foul trouble.

KU 6/KSU 4 — 14:57 left in 1st half

Cole Aldrich gets the ball deep in the post, hitting a short turn-around for KU’s first points.

Good defense by Collins, who forced Jacob Pullen into a tough pull-up fro 18 feet. Marcus Morris clears the rebounds.

Already, KU has two unforced turnovers. It usually happens with a crazy atmosphere like this. The Jayhawks need to settle down a bit.

Aldrich gets a foul while battling for a defensive rebound. He needs to avoid his second foul at all costs for KU.

Xavier Henry with an illegal screen. Third turnover for KU in two minutes.

Marcus Morris gets whistled for a foul underneath on the offensive glass, and eight feet away, I’m not sure what he did. That’s the fourth turnover and third foul for KU.

Dominique Sutton puts in a layup at the 16:30 mark for KSU’s first points.

KSU is dominating the battle of the backboards so far. The Wildcats have five offensive rebounds before the first media timeout.

6:04 p.m.

I guess "Octagon of Doom" is now official, as it was used in the pregame introduction by the PA announcer.

5 p.m.

OK, I've fired up a pregame chat. Remember, use the "Post a question" button to comment, post a question, give a score prediction or just say hi.

I'll be hanging out there until gametime.

Today's off-the-wall topic: Best pep band song (not including fight songs).

4:48 p.m.

The KSU students have completed their full sprints down the stairs at Bramlage and are settled into their midcourt seats. And already, the boo birds are out, as Cole Aldrich, Sherron Collins and Tyshawn Taylor are getting their warm welcomes onto the court.

Do any fans boo more than KSU fans?

As the "El-e-va-tor" chant starts amidst boos, I'll go ahead and give you some notes about today's game.

Kansas State averages 33 free throws per game. In fact, three KSU players (Jamar Samuels, Curtis Kelly, Jacob Pullen) are in the top 35 nationally in fouls drawn per 40 minutes. KU averages 24.3 free throws per game.

Twenty-seven percent of KSU's scoring comes from free throws. That's a high number considering the Wildcats have made just 65.4 percent of their free throws this year.

KSU averages 16 offensive rebounds per game. The Wildcats get offensive rebounds on 42.8 percent of their misses, which is tied with West Virginia for the highest percentage in the country.

KSU plays the 18th-fastest tempo in the country.

Jacob Pullen was 7-for-11 from the floor and 5-for-6 from three in his last game, scoring 25 against Baylor.

• Sherron Collins is leading the Big 12 in free-throw shooing, making 87.3 percent of his freebies.

KU has won 38 of the last 40 meetings against KSU.

Since Big 12 play began, KU is last in the conference in three-point percentage defense. Opponents are making 40.9 percent of their threes against the Jayhawks in conference games.

4:22 p.m.

Welcome back to the Newell Post Live, coming to you from Bramlage Coliseum in Manhattan where the No. 2 Kansas Jayhawks are getting set to take on the 11th-ranked Kansas State Wildcats.

Everyone should be happy to know that my personal streak at Bramlage is still intact.

I am two-for-two in getting booed while making my way into Bramlage Coliseum.

We tried our hardest not to get booed, too. Beat writer Gary Bedore and I rolled up in a vehicle with nothing identifying us as from Lawrence.

Still, after getting out of the car, we were booed by a few hundred KSU students who were waiting to make their way into the arena.

Believe it or not, I think we were booed because my Columbia coat is a shade of dark blue. So, to continue my math from last year, Coat=Blue=KU=Bad.

One student was kind enough to tell me that my mother was a, well, it rhymes with "chore".

I might try a different coat next year, just to see what happens, but I have a sneaking suspicion that even if I do, my personal streak might somehow live on.

We'll get to more analysis as we get closer to gametime. We'll also have our normal pregame chat starting an hour before the game.

Be sure to vote in our poll on the left and also use #kubball to have your Tweets appear on the left side of the page.


laceyhall13 10 years, 9 months ago

But the question on everyone's mind is...

Did you wear the khakis again this year?

Jesse Newell 10 years, 9 months ago

Yes. They will not determine my fashion.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

So, I posted this top 9 this morning, but I got some good input, so to keep a winning tradition alive, I am reposting here (with one modification - thank you drgnslayr!):

Top 9 (Why only 9 kuwells? Because KSUck just simply isn't worth 10) little known facts about Manhattan/KSU.

  1. Having attended KSU is actually a basis for obtaining a handicap permit at the Department of Motor Vehicles.

  2. KSU hoops hasn't been relevant since a 12-hour period when Michael Beasley hid in a closet at the NBA rookie camp. Before that, Jack Hartman was the coach.

  3. The practice of mopery (exposing yourself to a blind person) traces its origins to the KSU campus. Jason Sheeplover, President of the National Mopery Foundation, coincidentally headquartered in Manhattan, explains the origins of moperism as due to a combination of "little to do in Manhattan" and "excessive alcohol consumption".

  4. A top secret - recently made public - Department of Defense study concluded that nuclear weapons testing prior to its relocation to the Nevadan desert, in combination with inbreeding, was largely responsible for a large number of genetic abnormalities in Manhattan.

  5. Coach "call me Frank" Martin is also an adjunct professor in KSUs Anger Management program. Bobby Knight is a guest lecturer on game days.

  6. An extended stay (greater than 4 hours) in Manhattan, requires a visa and a series of 10 immunizations for viruses associated with farm animals.

  7. For those of you making the road trip to Manhattan. Well, I have a confession. About 18 years ago, following a KU win in AFH West, I tapped a cute redhead I met in Aggieville to console her. We all make mistakes, be it an argyle sweater or leather pants or selecting political science as a major or hitting on the enemy temptresses, so cut me some slack. She was smokin!

Anyway, if you see a Freshman the running around the Octogon of Tepid that looks a little like 'ol kuwells, be nice to the kid. Half his genes are solid.

  1. KSU is responsible for coining the term "animal husbandry"... One can only wonder why they chose that term. And does the process involve clergy? So, how can you just not feel love when you look into those big brown eyes??? Oh, I know the answer: IT'S A FREAKING COW.


  1. Nicknamed the Little Apple because city council decided Little Sh!t Hole was too realistic in landmark 6-5 vote.

I hope we enjoy the game...

Rock Chalk!

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Denver KU fans:

Where is the pregame party for the game Wednesday? I happen to be in Colorado Springs on business next week so I have a ticket for the game in hand.


Is the hotel information classified? If not, where is the team going to be? I'd like to get a room there if possible. Or, are they staying overnight????

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago


Sorry for your encounter with the Wildcat fans who dis' your momma! It will be a wild game tonight. Hope we can pull out a win and then, you throw your prediction down the toilet. Rock Chalk!

twowheels 10 years, 9 months ago

Jesse, might want to change this....

• KU has won 38 of the last 40 meetings against KU.

killabees 10 years, 9 months ago

Your mom's a "bore"? I assumed she'd be a bright and engaging woman.

twowheels 10 years, 9 months ago


Feb 3, 2010 KU at Colorado Pre-game Party 4:30-6:30 p.m. The Lazy Dog 1346 Pearl St. Boulder, CO

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago


I couldn't agree more with you. I was saying to my brother during the Texas game that K-State fans boo more than any other fans I've ever heard. Just wait till the game starts, they will boo the refs, our players, Coach Self, our mascot, the score, etc. Watch out or they'll boo you too.

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

lol...should've read down further. I rest my case about booing you too.

MatchupoftheWeek 10 years, 9 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

milwaukeeJAYHAWK 10 years, 9 months ago

EMAWJ----every manhattanite a wannabe jayhawk!

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

Here kitty, kitty, kitty---want to play some basketball?!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rock Chalk, Jayhawk---Skin some cat!!!!

lance1jhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Wow Texas is going down like a cheap (rhymes with chore)!

KU 84 KSUck 77

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago


Hope I not too late---ESPN has bonus coverage of the Baylor/Texas game!

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

yeah, mike...i'm watching. watched the kentucky game. Cousins is really really good, but he's a complete thug. perfect match for CaliCheater.

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

i'm starting to get this eerie feeling that it's going to be a coach rematch for the national championship. I will have to move if we lose to them.

Chuck Wagstaff 10 years, 9 months ago

Down goes Texas (again) ! Horns can't hit FTs.

BU 80 UT 77

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

KU has a two-game lead, baby!!!!!!!!!!!! Now, lets take the Wildcats--no prisoners, including Frank Martin.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

OMG. I just saw a guy dressed like Col Sanders... How clever...

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Wow, Texas losing to Baylor at home. We win tonight and we take control of the conference. As if we needed anymore motivation. Rock Chalk!

lance1jhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Spayed Neutered De-clawed Lets euthanize some wildcats tonight

Jesse Newell 10 years, 9 months ago

twowheels — Thanks for the correction. I was hanging out in the chat and didn't see it. It should be fixed now.

mace221 10 years, 9 months ago

Why the hell is the Gameday crew all wearing purple?

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

digger gets thumped in the it! that's what he gets for calling kstink to win.

Jim Dickerson 10 years, 9 months ago

Did anyone else hear Vitale refer to Collins as Sherron Williams. The man is long on mouth and short on brains. Forget which game he was announcing.

dynamitehawk 10 years, 9 months ago

When I look at that picture of Cole, I say to myself, "Alright Stop! Collaborate and listen, Cole is back with a brand new edition!" Does that make me weird?

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Game Day crew wearing purple to avoid having batteries thrown at them.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Hey Erin, that color looks bad on you. Take that blouse off...

dynamitehawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Erin Andrews makes my dyn-o-mite go Boom!

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Dynamite: It makes you complicated. And leave that dyn-o-mite alone and focus on the game!

Chuck Wagstaff 10 years, 9 months ago

Keys to the game (every game) - Turnovers Free Throws Rebounds

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

Just stick a corn cob up my $$$, Vital doing this game.

dynamitehawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Another key to the game

Scoring more points than KSU ;)

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

Okay, they've had their fun, now sit them down.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Too damn many offensive rebounds already.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago


All these fouls, this game will be over around midnight.


kansasbasketball 10 years, 9 months ago

to many offensive rebounds and i think these fouls will go into are favor!

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

officials may be a little nervous early, consistently inconsistent.

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

1st team to relax will build an early lead.

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

the first team to put Reed in will get a big lead :)

kansasbasketball 10 years, 9 months ago

wow can't even go 10 minutes into the game before vitale has to say something about kentucky and coach gay!!

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

seems like we are getting them into some good foul trouble.

kusayzone 10 years, 9 months ago

inconsistent play--officiating---and commentary!!! Jeesh where is that game going???

Joe Joseph 10 years, 9 months ago

Refs must be trying to keep this one clean. Waaaaay too many touch fouls being called. This is redic.

Chuck Wagstaff 10 years, 9 months ago

Chuck - I'd like to see Russell Robinson get in....

Joe Joseph 10 years, 9 months ago

KU not getting to the 50/50 balls... Not a good sign.

Joe Joseph 10 years, 9 months ago

This is crazy. But I probably feel the most comfortable when the offense runs through Marcus Morris anymore. He has been a beast as of late.

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

that's not good. hate to say it, but better 'kief than marcus... very heady foul by TT there.

Chuck Wagstaff 10 years, 9 months ago

Kieff down with an ankle.

In better news, the Outhouse of Doom is rather quiet.

Scatterhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

You'd be stupid not to take advantage of an injury.

kusayzone 10 years, 9 months ago

Dont wish any injury on anyone! One ball game isnt worth it! We are deep-that is our advantage...Martin is stealing minutes using his bench...he a sly one!

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

We get the ball inside, we win! Pretty simple!

CoolDoc_Jones 10 years, 9 months ago

"Outhouse od Doom" Ha Ha. Can't believe those refs didn't call a Timeout. Good job, TT.

kusayzone 10 years, 9 months ago

too many bunnies missed so far by the boys in blue!!!

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Refs wont call a TO until the team with the player hurt is in posession of the ball offensively....

Joe Joseph 10 years, 9 months ago

I'll take a four point lead at this juncture... but when you look at the missed bunnies combined with a few missed free throws... Could easily be a 10 point game right now.

Yakihawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Are the Purple Nurples going to boo every call against them?

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

i think TT is going to have a big game

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

we could foul out their whole team at this rate

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

And KSU is playing the game the way Naismith invented it, by walking with the ball.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

How many gimmies do you miss? Damn. FINISH!

Sorry, I refuse to call them bunnies.

CoolDoc_Jones 10 years, 9 months ago

Does anyone else think wearing those fake beards is the dumbest thing ever?

Chuck Wagstaff 10 years, 9 months ago

Let's finish the half with a Brady buzzer-beater 3.

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

Anyone know what our FG percentage is for this half?

kusayzone 10 years, 9 months ago

why does the whole crowd look like they are wearing blue! I love it!

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

Thanks Professor. The law of averages, which Self subscribes to, should mean we bump that up second half.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

Well, I am glad we are ahead by one, but how many gimmies have we missed? Oh my goodness! We should be ahead by 10, at least! We have to do better on the defensive boards--K-State is killing us!!!!

tis4tim 10 years, 9 months ago

6-11 from the free throw line, giving up too many offensive rebounds, and at least 5 missed put backs from point blank range.

Fix that and we're up by 10-12 right now.

Yakihawk 10 years, 9 months ago

You should have to go to anger management just for seeing Frank Martin in person. He looks like the type of guy who buried hamsters alive when he was a young man, a very angry young man.

lovemyhawks 10 years, 9 months ago

ok guys, i have not read anything or been on here tonite but this game is absolutely wearing me out. between the missed easy shots ( at least 8 as cole had 5 in a row), the missed FT, the awful refs and the inability to rebound, i am exhausted. we should easily be up by 10 or more and we better be ready to play and finish in the 2nd half if we want to take this one home!!!!! GO hawks!!

kansasbasketball 10 years, 9 months ago

i bet xavier only had 6 minutes so he could play a lot the 2nd half kinda saving him; would be my guess

lance1jhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

kuwells- Fire up the Grey Goose NH_JHawk Pour the Johnny Walker Blue For me its Single Barrell Whiskey time Lets do this!!!!! Drink the Jayhawks to victory (after all it's tradition)

Jesse Newell 10 years, 9 months ago

KSU is going to get offensive rebounds. It's what they do best. The Wildcats have nine at half, and they average 16 per game, so their first-half total wasn't outlandish.

RedRed 10 years, 9 months ago

Jesse -- Give us the Player and # of fouls !! Thanks,

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

I know all the pundit talk is KSU only down by one. But to me they have used alot of energy to be where they are. I think we simply wear them down this half.

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

lance1 -

Tonight I'm sippin' some Maker's Mark Manhattans in honor of the game.

I'd say a fairly predictable game so far. "KU-KSU won't be pretty" was spot on. Both teams are highly ranked so it's not much of a surprise it's close. I expect to kill the kitty cat 2nd half though.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

And, Jesse, they are only +1 on offensive rebounds... And +1 total.

Grey Goose fully operational. 2 1/2 down. Early flight tomorrow, I'm going to be grumpy. I just hope it is because of the booze.


NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Denise Clementine is a punk. Of course it's Morningstar.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

I hate to pile on, but X just doesn't look good of late. That was pitiful.


Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

i see another year of college in X's future.

Joe Joseph 10 years, 9 months ago

Xavier is so gone to the NBA after this year..........

Clarence Haynes 10 years, 9 months ago

Frank Martin....second coming of Woody Hayes!

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

I've been so keyed up today, I think I'll start on my taxes to settle myself down.

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

kuwells - I have to agree. How many turnovers is that on X tonight? He looks lost. I think he will "find it" though before all is said and done.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

Morningstar for 3----DAGGERS!!!!!! Right in the Kitty Kat's heart!

lance1jhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

KSUck fans will start leaving here in a bit. Long tractor ride back to aggiville

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

i think 'kieff came back in the game late in the first half

lance1jhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

BC-Kieff came back in the first half and played alittle.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

X is "credited" with 4 turnovers. I actually get nervous when he dribbles. Worse than Rush is freshman year. Sorry folks. He will be just fine in time but the OAD is not looking good now. Of course, a good performance when we go 6-0 at the end of the year will change all that...

My God, how many moths had to die for Barkleys jacket. I know the camera adds a few pounds, but how many cameras are on the guy.

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

Thanks chuck and lance, that is good news.

Joe Joseph 10 years, 9 months ago

I know Kstate is an exceptional offensive rebounding team, but this is ridiculous! KSU has gotten offensive rebounds on almost every possession in the 2nd half.

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

i hope sherron is ok...he has just disappeared today.

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

It may be just me, but it seams like those KSU offensive rebounds are nothing more than bizzare bounces off the rim.

lance1jhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

KU is now shooting 50% to the kitty kats 35%

Joe Joseph 10 years, 9 months ago

HOW MANY MISSED LAYUPS??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Anybody else notice all the trash just off the court? What's up with that?

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Too many missed layups.

Shooting percentage down to 45 after the last few posessions...

Drink fellas!

c0bra 10 years, 9 months ago

I like the Aldrich = Sloth from Goonies banner.

Stay classy, K-State.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Chuck: There was some talk about Sherrons knee in the first half.

Uhhh, that shot looked pretty good!

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

NH_JHawk: What the hell do you expect? It's Manhattan, you know that place is a dump.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

Is it Withey time? Na, na, na, na--let's get Withey with it!!!!!!!

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

so are THEY getting all the silly contact calls??

well, we better adjust. or start taking it real hard at rim and try to draw some of our own...

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Much better answer lance1.

I think Taylor needs to step it up now. If he knows that role, that is...

Crap, 3 point game.

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

wtf guys

stop the stupid turnovers!!

settling for jumpers.... TAKE IT INSIDE

Joe Joseph 10 years, 9 months ago

ummmmmmmmmmmmmm KICKED BALL????????????????

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Withey got what, 12 seconds of clock time?

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

does it look like we're standing around or what??

CoolDoc_Jones 10 years, 9 months ago

If Texas didn't lose today, I's be a little more angry.

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Self obviously has a lot of confidence in X. Let's hope he can "find it" before the end of this game. Collins for 3!

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

yeah we don't "want it" right now

and it doesn't help we're not getting the contact calls that they are getting around the rim. i've counted at least 3 or 4 of those this half

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

What happened to Peter Pullen? Oh, my bad. Jacob.

kansasbasketball 10 years, 9 months ago

stop for gay state and not for us!! for the injury

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

lol I saw him mouth 'Saturday' when they asked Pullen what day it was :P

kusayzone 10 years, 9 months ago

SC gets the basket....BM makes the start of the play!

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

That was costly. If we could get two minutes out of Robinson or Withey we should be okay.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

Hope Cole isn't out too long--we need him!

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Cole - 13 / 9 / 2 / 4

I hope we step it up w/out Cole. Arrrgh.

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

wow silly 4th foul for Cole, reaching in that far away from the bucket?? ugh. way too much time left. Great block though.

in other news, Sherron is still so clutch. That was a 3 a la the OU game vs. Willy!

Finally a bit of life in the paint after a loose ball!? Great hustle and knockdown for X

should be interesting with cole on the bench. will we see Withey or Robinson? who will step up??

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

lance1: That EMAW crack on the Top 25 thread was hilarious....

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

But this is good for us to see just how tough we are.

rcaltrider 10 years, 9 months ago

The refs have decided to take this out of the hands of the players and give it to KSU.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

No interior defense. On the bench with 8 fouls...

Robert Murphy 10 years, 9 months ago

I can just pop in and out of this game. Maybe I'll watch it tomorrow if we win. This team seems to have little confidence. Henry looks like he needs two more years of high school. How come we can't make a lay up? The refs are terrible. It looks more like roller derby than basketball. How many turnovers? Looks like they lucked in another one. Pure torture.

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

i like our switch to zone they got a lucky bounce there though

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

wow.. right after i say that we give up a dunk?? cmon zone. protect the bucket

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

Morningstar----another dagger three! Keep it going, Brady!

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

No--I do not like our chances if this goes to OT!

rcaltrider 10 years, 9 months ago

These idiots are making shots they've never made in their lives! How lucky can you get?

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

lance1 - freaking hilarious. nice one bro! LOL!

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

Could sure use some twin channeling right now.

rcaltrider 10 years, 9 months ago

Can we have Markieff an Marcus switch jerseys? I mean would they know?

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

NH, youre talking that EMAW crack, right?

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Come on mullen! Think positive! By the way, were you on one of the rides at Disney when they took that photo?

Tap out by Morningstar! Get points.

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

kuwells - yup. the cheerleader comment was tops too. LOL!

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Why do they keep showing that granny with the beard? Damn.

lance1jhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Son of a ..................................!!!!!!!!! bad pass TT

c0bra 10 years, 9 months ago

Tyshawn Taylor you have some of the worst judgement I've ever seen on a basketball court.

rcaltrider 10 years, 9 months ago

Why would Morningstar cut back...stupid!

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

the zone is key. i know we went zone b/c Cole was in trouble, but it's keeping them away from the basket and the easy 2s.

Classic TT. good plays followed by horrible plays.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

The cheerleader comment was stellar.

My head hurts. Play for the last shot, right fellas????

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

Was that a stupid pass by TT? What a junior high pass!!! Stupid!!!!

WilburNether 10 years, 9 months ago

Morningstar just made the most stupid play in basketball -- fouling a shooter, but not hard enough to prevent him from making the shot, and gave up a 3-point play. Stupid.

rcaltrider 10 years, 9 months ago

Sorry, that was Brady's fault he should have come to get the ball.

c0bra 10 years, 9 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

You couldn't get a grain of rice up my tookus right now.

tis4tim 10 years, 9 months ago

What a pathetic last minute I've ever seen from this team. Inexcusable.

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

yes, equally bad plays by Brady there..


Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

Octagon of Overtime!!!
What is it with our passing--stop the bounce passes!!!! Geeze!!!!! I have a bad feeling about OT!

bighawk2 10 years, 9 months ago

Crank up the 80's jock jams. I still like letting our band provide a loud collegiate environmnet

rcaltrider 10 years, 9 months ago

1 teams don't play like that in the last minute of a game.

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

been a good game to watch. outstanding pr for the big 12

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

What the hell was Tyshawn thinking. Role on team: Make passes to your teammates to facilitate scoring opportunities.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

For those who hate Vitale--you have five more minutes of him!!! Oh, boy!!!!

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 9 months ago

For the LOVE OF GOD TT...PLEASE TRANSFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

sick. we were up 3 with just over 30 or 40 seconds left and the ball in our hands.

that is NEVER a situation you should lose. TT and Brady choked on that sequence, big time.

and can we get those 4 free throws back? you know, the 4 misses in a row? lol

now we have OT on the road... well, here goes nuthin.

we're still in more foul trouble, right?? ugh.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

mikendal: OT means that maybe we'll see Erin one more time. Freaking Vitale.

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

GREAT PLAY? that means a horrible play is coming??

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

And then Taylor comes through. Just the model of inconsistency.

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

KSU overplaying on D all night. Nice back door cut by Brady right there.

Not good. Sherron going out.

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

nice cut, nice pass. that's how you beat the trap

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

wow, without sherron i can see one thing: we really need more ball handlers!

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 9 months ago

Stupid tyshawn I love to hate you but I do love you.

Chuck Wagstaff 10 years, 9 months ago

If they'd call the moving screens, we'd be up by 20.

rcaltrider 10 years, 9 months ago

Did Vitale seriously just say KSU's talent was almost to the level of KU's?!

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

another tacky 'contact' call that could've easily been a no-call for us.

that's about 6 or 7 in this half :(

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

cmon ,same thing as reg. up with 30 seconds left.... get a score. a point!

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

TO not bad. i'd call it sooner though.... now only 11 left in the shot clock

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago


mr. T is Mr. CLUTCH


that's 'de nuevo' for you, clemente!!

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

I'm feeling a ton better right now....

Morningstar hits one, I'll be able to breathe for the first time in the last hour.

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 9 months ago

And looky there, we get one of those funky bounces on the rebound.

NH_JHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

26 out of 27! Octagon of Doom....LMAO! That game was a lot of fun to watch.

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

wow. REALLY wish we'd have done it right at the end of Reg., but that was another sweet clutch play by collins. wow.

Rock Chalk, baby!

lance1jhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Collins is the man!!!!!!! Huge rebound by Cole (playing with 4 fouls) Brady had a good game

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

Sherron is the man!!!!! Nice win! The Doom is lame! We have K-State for Senior Night and we will not lose that one!!!!!! Like it or not, KU will most likely be #1 again!!!!

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

That was a fun game. Poor KSU, just cant get it done...

So, this may be the Goose talking, but I plan on proposing to Sherron when I go to the Colorado game. What a freaking stud. Just a winner.

Cole playing hard and smart for like 2 hours after he picked up no 4 was pretty darn huge too...

kupark 10 years, 9 months ago

79 or even 76 points (discounting the last three by Pullen) are too many in conference play. KU still needs to tighten up its defense, like we played against Missouri.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

You know, dihrd, Sherron could be a vampire. He certainly has no heart and he just took the soul of KSU.

Octagon of Dung. Oh, how sweet...

FreddyinLA 10 years, 9 months ago

Can't understand what HCBS is thinking. This team will not win 6 games in Mar/Apr with only 1 point guard. The '08 team had 3 qualty PGs in Sharron, Mario, and RussRob. The three headed point guard monster of TT, Brady, or Reed will not be able to handle tourney pressure. Need to start giving EJ 10 minutes per game or we don't win it this year.
3 man big rotation of twins and Cole not enough. Start playing JW.
Offense stopped attacking the basket the last 8 minutes. That is when you start feeding the bigs when the court is spread.

CoolDoc_Jones 10 years, 9 months ago

Freddy, I think Bill knows what he's doing. Does he tell you how to do your job?

Jim Dickerson 10 years, 9 months ago


The lady with the beard used to be a really hot redhead.

kupark 10 years, 9 months ago

Is it me or our chemistry is always always better when X is out of the lineup?

Lacy Mohler 10 years, 9 months ago

Love him or hate him we wouldn't have won tonight without TT in the game.

Bill had a brain fart with 15 sec. in regulation. What was he expecting Collins to do? With four guards and Cole on the court there had to be a better game plan than that. Thank goodness Martin had the brain fart at the end of overtime. Why didn't he have them foul us?

Few things better than winnning in the Hawk-tagon!

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

if BS told me how to do my job, i'm sure i'd do it better :) what a fun game. gotta give Kstink some credit. they played hard. we will probably win our 6th straight big 12 title and that's awesome. I think we will have a different attitude now as number 1, what being conference play and all. We really need X to step up though at this rate he will definitely be back next year barring 6 awesome games in the tourney.

aznguyen316 10 years, 9 months ago

KUPARK, you do remember OT was played right? Tied at 69 at end of regulation is a fine score for the opponent.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago


I wondered why I was reacting every time they showed her. I feel naughty. Wonder if I should book up to Aggie land and render more comfort?

Very clever and funny post!

Hawktagon of Euphoria

MrPilot 10 years, 9 months ago

What a stressful, but great game. Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 9 months ago

Some K-State fan just came into my work and I told him it must suck to be a K-State fan right now. His reply I will take my responsible players compared to your gangster players any day. He refered to the sherron Collins sexual harrassment lawsuit. What a dill hole they are just so worn out from all the winning that KU does at there place. What a bunch of losers.

FreddyinLA 10 years, 9 months ago

Doctor J, don't think he could help improve my surfing of the internet all day, but willing to take his input. Still need a steady hand at the point besides Sherron. EJ a true point.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago


Where do you want me to send the body bag? I mean, dude, you have to kill him.

CRIMSONnBLUE 10 years, 9 months ago

(FreddieinLA), you are an idiot. First of all Morningstar and Reed are not point guards, they are shooting guards. Secondly, the role of a point guard is to bring the ball up the floor, successfully handle it and create movement in order to find open shots and get the ball inside. Too many people have bought into the generational trend that point guards are responsible for scoring the most points. Now if your point is somehow directed at the idea that we need a backup PG who is just as talented as Collins that is a different subject. First, if Collins can handle playing 40 minutes or more and still come through in the clutch and lead his team then there is only a need for more PG's in case of injury. Secondly, I think Elijah Johnson is definitely talented enough to be productive but you have to understand that regardless of talent he is a freshmen and there are certain situations during games that only a seasoned veteran will know how to handle and what the right course of action is. Collins has ice in his veins and is the most clutch player you can ask for. Like the old saying goes... if ain't broke don't fix it!

utahjayhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Good points, Freddy.

In summary, TT gave some very good min (especially at the stripe) but nearly lost the game at the end of reg (a putrid pass to Brady) and when he shoe-balled the pass to 'Ron where he got tied up by Pullen. Exactly right that we need more consistent backup play at PG to win it all.

I wish Coach would have given Withey and TRob more meaningful minutes. He tried to stretch too much out of Cole and the Twins.

All said, though, a simply historic win!!

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

I totally agree, Chuck! I thought we played with a lot of poise at times and, at other times, we made some bonehead mistakes. What really surprised me a lot was the number of short shots we missed and our dumb passes. I guess one needs to credit K-State for being in the passing lanes because they are very quick on defense. Vitale had at least seven teams in the Dance, in his opinion, and maybe an eighth team, depending what happens at the Big 12 PS Tourney. Like you said earlier, Chuck, great PR for the Big 12. Come Monday, I will be walking on clouds when I pass by my K-State brothers and sisters at my workplace! Won't have to listen to their trash talking, thank God for that.

Have a nice rest of the Weekend--keep rocking, Jayhawks!!!!

Mike Johns 10 years, 9 months ago

dhrd --- kuwells nooner was 5

Lester Earl is the man you are looking for

Joe Joseph 10 years, 9 months ago

I couldn't watch the last seven minutes of regulation. What happened?

robert rasdon 10 years, 9 months ago

close but no cigar kittys , I swear i never want to hear octagon of doom again because they don't deserve a catchy home court saying.

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

MistaJ_ Yes! Lester Earl....

Jayhawkinmullen: What is s:>3<

So, X was basically an assistant coach for the OT... Wonder how far Carl has crawled up Selfs tail end by now....

jaybate 10 years, 9 months ago

Post Game Patois:

Shoot and play terrible and still win against a rival ranked highly nationally. Sweet.

Looks like the team is back to Ty at the 2 and Brady at the 3 for serious games.

Xavier just is in over his head too much. He's a sub who starts.

At the same time, X made a very important bucket in the second half when no one else could. And he followed it with some good defense, until he got confused in the violence and half court press KSU was using.

Cole looked at the hoop and it looked about the diameter of a bee bee for an entire game.

Cole played with a lot of poise with four fouls.

Why can't Ty just play all the time at the same intensity as at the end of big games; then his problems would be over?

This is the most times I have seen a team throw a game away and still win.

Sherron just made a monster play at the end. Monster. The full Godzilla.

Rock chalk!

lovemyhawks 10 years, 9 months ago

guess i'm the minority..... that game absolutely KILLED me and all i "ENJOYED" was the last 4.3 seconds when i knew it was over. i truly thought we COULD have led by 20 points had the easy ones gone down and then it was a miserable fight to the finish. tyshawn WAS big tonite and a hurt sherron saved the nite!!!! he is just unbelievable!!! glad the clock stopped a few times to give him some time to get ready to come back in and finish off the pussycats. wore me out totally. i need a stiff drink now that i can relax!! marcus fouling out scared me to death and then when sherron went down i thought we were dead meat but what a finish!! finally some HUGE rebounds in the 2nd half..... those were killing us....... cats were getting WAY too many shots on their end!! refs just drove me nuts......... thought there were some major BS calls tonite!! huge huge win and i'll take it but wish i could have relaxed and had some fun while it was going on!! just didn't happen...... RCJH!!!!!! let's make the next one a little easier!

Mike Johns 10 years, 9 months ago

good win - i wish it was still on.
I really didnt want to see the game end.
KSU plays physical and for a good stretch played lock-down D.

few observations... X did not contribute much - in fact he sat a lot of the game. i am not sure how many minutes he typically gets, but he was not in the game tonight. Collins continues to be ridiculous Withey logged 15 of the worst seconds i have ever seen. He got owned - I will remember those moments in the next couple years as he blossoms. Taylor needs to be more consistent. he gave some good minutes but there were playes where he would look great then go to the other end and look terrible. Cole is a beast and even with 4 fouls is a game-changer

Rock Chalk

optichawk 10 years, 9 months ago

I enjoyed all 45 min. in the HAWKTAGON! 26 of 27 at AFH-West is not a rivalry folks...

Clarence Haynes 10 years, 9 months ago

Mistajrock......To his credit, X did hit a couple clutch shots in the 2nd half. He could have handled the ball better. Would love to see hime take the ball to the basket more, as that would open up his perimeter shots

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

That win was VERY impressive.... Especailly with all the negatives that surrounded that performance. Foul troubles, free throw shooting, out rebounded, and fewer assists... All stats that would indicate a loss.

lovemyhawks 10 years, 9 months ago

omg...... i couldn't WAIT to see it end............. that was too much for me...... just thankful for the "W!"

Joe Baker 10 years, 9 months ago

If you're a current part of the KU student body, please, for the love of fellow alumni and fans, do not let the student body partake of: beards (except if you're Jeff Withey) use the word "doom" chickens Col Sanders or "EMAW"? And all the other outrageous imagery the kitty katz displayed tonight. They are the most obnoxious (not meant to flatter) fans. I really thought KU played with poise and they demonstrated "class" when most players would have shown frustration.

This was the same test the kittys put Texas through and the only difference is, KU passed the test. All the points made about poise are right on target. This was probably the best word to describe tonight's game, "poise." You gotta have it in tough games.

Nice Win KU Rock Chalk Beat CU!

lovemyhawks 10 years, 9 months ago

i agree truehawk...... the beards, doom, etc. were a sick addition....... ku is and has always been much more classy!! be proud to be a jayhawk!

Jayhawk_in_Morgantown 10 years, 9 months ago

I'm not TRYING to second-guess Bill...but I really don't understand why he didn't play more of our guys off the bench. Like LA above, I think we're going to need the experience down the road in March. More than that, when KSU has so few viable players, I'd think you'd want to grind them down...and take some foul pressure off of Marcus and Cole...

CoolDoc_Jones 10 years, 9 months ago

Agree with you there, Freddy, but if EJ's not seeing the court, I'm sure there's a really good reason.

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

EJ may still be hurt. he got hurt in practice if i recall. but did thomas robinson ever even get in? what's up with whithey before him/

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Chuck: That was CJ that got hurt in practice...

lovemyhawks 10 years, 9 months ago

we've been seeing robinson but don't think he ever came in tonite. don't understand the EJ deal at all but hopefully coach has a reason and we won't lose him. guessing cj is still hurt?? we did not play many tonite at all and tyrel only played 10 minutes. glad to see 5 people in double figures..... didn't realize markieff never scored (knew he couldn't hit a ft at all tho) but did have 6 big rebounds and a block. marcus and cole in foul trouble is critical..... we need some more experience ready to go when that happens........... just a bit scary....... it's february now..... march is coming soon.

lovemyhawks 10 years, 9 months ago

hey, anyone know if the women went ahead and beat mu today??

srhendricks 10 years, 9 months ago

TT's turnover while passing was not his fault. Brady cut back and taylor could not anticipate that. I was pleased with TT's driving ability tonight during a stretch where Collins was being locked up by Pullen.

We could really stand for TT to play better. He has some athleticism that Reed and Morningstar lack. He can slash and kick out to them for threes. He needs to watch out for the charges though.

Classic College Basketball. ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!!! KU!

FreddyinLA 10 years, 9 months ago

C&B, don't understand why you call me an idiot for suggesting we should have a second point guard in the game when people are applying extreme pressure. KU has had significant success through the years with two guys in the game at the same time who can handle the rock.

AsherFusco 10 years, 9 months ago


The KU women defeated Missouri, 61-59, tonight.

Dick Murdock 10 years, 9 months ago

To go into that environment and miss as many bunnies as we did and still win is a sign of a mature and well-coached team. In the end it was coaching that won (and lost) the game. Frank Martin not calling for a foul in the final 55 seconds is bone-headed beyond imagination. Hats off to Bill Self - once again showing why he's here and Frank's there.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

Bramlage is "The House That Roy Built".

Look, it is a great win. We'll all enjoy it. But our goal is to win the National Championship. A big road win is great. But what was, once again, an obvious shortcoming in our play? Tyshawn Taylor.

I've said it all year. Tyshawn Taylor is a disaster. Coach Self has put us in the position of having to rely upon this guy. Did anyone see the end of regulation? This is the Tyshawn Taylor that we should expect. Stupid passes, poor ball handling. Please, don't anyone give me any of the positives, because they are so vastly outweighed by the negatives. All of you Taylor apologists are simply drinking the cool-aid.

Jaybate: "Why can't Ty just play all the time at the same intensity as at the end of big games; then his problems would be over?" --------- On this, you are way, way off base. He choked at the end of regulation. It has nothing to do with effort, or intensity. It has to do with, simply, Tyshawn. He is what he is. And he is the single biggest impediment to a national championship.

CoolDoc_Jones: The "real good reason" that EJ isn't seeing the court is that coach Self, in a year where he was a national champ favorite, did not want two freshmen getting significant minutes. And all this b.s. about EJ not getting it on defense is just that .. b.s. That is the easy way for those that don't want to second guess Self, or are Taylor apologists, to offer up some reason why EJ doesn't play, because every other observable comparison favors EJ. The fact is, if EJ got some real time, he would improve on the defensive end. The real reason he isn't playing is Self doesn't want two freshman getting major minutes, and X is a given.

If Taylor simply was not here this year, coach Self would have been forced to play EJ. I'm not saying EJ would have solved every problem, and perhaps EJ might have even cost us a game early, but I guarantee you we would have a better player on January 30 than we do in Tyshawn Taylor. Taylor is a freaking disaster. And EJ is the next Mario.

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 9 months ago

I think it is funny that K-State is always trying to come up with something clever, like huggieville ( next year he leaves) and the octagon of doom will Frank Martin leave now. I think I will stick with Kansas tradition winning

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Hey, Mem! What a game, right????

My butt still hurts - like doing an ab crunch for 1 hour!

How the hell are you?

I will actually get to go to a couple of games here soon. Colorado on Wednesday and Texass on Monday. Pumped up!

Did you like that top 9????

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

srhendricks: Taylor's driving ability? He finished one at the hoop tonight .. one. And one other in the past 5 games when there was any contest. His turnovers .. three of them .. where his fault. What about that stupid pass and Collins' feet at halfcourt. The one to Brady was too close anyway to have thrown the pass. Just typical from a guy that has no business on the court for this team.

Brian Powell 10 years, 9 months ago

re: EJ/TT

I think Self was just sticking to the core players tonight because he trusts them more and really wanted this win.

I really really do agree that EJ and TRob need more floor time to get experience before March and before 2010-11, but Self probably didn't want to use this game to do that.

I don't blame him.

Maybe you could get them in earlier in the game, or when we had a 8 pt (?) lead sneak them in there.... but I bet he didn't want to gamble tonight. We'll probably see them get more minutes again in some of the Feb. games.

The game saver, IMO (other than Mr. Clutch) was going to the zone when Marcus was out and Cole and 4 fouls. Other than the one play we got dunked on (ugh), that zone kept them away from the basket --- which meant away from the easy stuff and the fouls they were drawing in the paint.

My only beef is that we should try that for strategic reasons (when you think about how KSU was getting most of their offense) and not just go to it because we feel we have to, personnel-wise.

lovemyhawks 10 years, 9 months ago

thanks for the info on the women..... .wow, last i saw the score they were WAY up in the first half......... mizzou turned it into a game. thanks for sharing!

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 9 months ago

Playing overseas this past year has not turned out to be positive for Taylor. He had a good summer on the 19 year old basketball team and I believe it did him a disservice. He was the man on that team so now he thinks he should be the man on this team. Just take a back seat Tyshawn and let the game come to you.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 9 months ago

Wells -

You just want to be in the team hotel in Colo. so you can be close to Tyrel's sister, right?

Woody Cragg 10 years, 9 months ago

OK take your hat off to the coach, but what was he thinkin' with Withey? And with less than 2 min in the half why was Cole even on the floor. At that point he had one foul. Ooops. If you're gonna play these guys late in the game they gotta be in at least a little in the first half. Also, why didn't he give some time to TRob? You gotta battle test these guys before you have to rely on them. X didn't even show up, so give EJ some clock too. I don't know if you can say TT's a disaster, but he's sure tryin to be. Lazy passer-tries to look off the defender instead of puttin mustard on the ball. Tremendous athlete, but he's not quite with the program yet. BS should have everyone shootin tons of lay-ups and free throws cause we coulda put this game on ice way before the end with just half the ducks. It was ugly Roosevelt, damn ugly. But one's as good as a hundred and they're undfeated in conference. RCJH and wreck silo tech!

Dick Murdock 10 years, 9 months ago

I think they should change the name to the Octagon of Broom because except for one game we've pretty much swept them in the little apple.

GreyHawker 10 years, 9 months ago are on da money......before this yr ends TT will break all our hearts........and BS will deeply regret not investing alittle heavier in EJ.....

Ed Fox 10 years, 9 months ago

Those complaining about TT - listen to Coach's post-game comments. He obviously thinks those of you knocking on TT are flat out wrong. He says (correctly) that (despite the obvious bad turnovers) KU doesn't win this game without TT. Not only was the only one hitting free throws, he was the only one willing to drive to the basket when Sherron was either tied up by KSU or by cramps. TT makes some bad plays and clearly has had some bad games, but possession for possession, TT was more important than anyone not named Cole or Sherron during the second half of this game.

Now some of you, i.e. HighEliteMajor, have some theory about Coach Self sacrificing the good of the team and a potential NC (in your view) so that he won't have to "give multiple freshmen minutes." How you can say that with a straight face eludes me. Coach Self is going to do what he thinks is most important for this team and for getting this team where it's going to need to be in March. Maybe, just maybe, he's thinking that TT's ceiling is higher this year than EJ's and, thus, he wants to give him the minutes to improve his game before then. EJ is a talent and we're all excited to see him, but he's a freshman who's never played in that environment, who's never played against the pressure that KSU was putting on our guards, and who probably can only go so high this year. Coach Self has way more invested in this team and getting it ready for March than does any arm-chair coaches on this message board and if he's not playing EJ then there is likely something that's happening in practice to make him believe that he'd be a liability vs. TT in most games (even considering TT's weak points).

This was a great game, a great win, and KU finally showing the toughness and character that will be necessary for whatever team wins a NC. Let's focus on that instead of concocting half-brained theories about how Self is knowingly sabotaging the team by keeping EJ on the bench, despite the fact that he's evidently obviously the missing link.

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 9 months ago

Bravo bannerforkirk, bravo, encore, encore.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

kuwells--- Tyrel's sister-----Wow! She was on TV that one time and everyone was saying how she was smokin'! You didn't have to post that link, but I still want to thank you! Good luck, if you stay at the team's hotel on Wednesday.

Since Colorado lost at Iowa State by one, I am anticipating a lot of Jayhawk fans at Colorado on Wednesday----Rock Chalk, baby! God, I'm talking like Dick Vitale now!

Tony Bandle 10 years, 9 months ago

For all the great plays, the bad turn overs, goofy fouls and rough stuff the difference in the game is three lane violations by KSU.

How often do you even see one lane violation in a game....not very often. Yet, to see three all by the same team is unbelievable and unforgivable.

Subtract those three points and we are all singing a different tune tonight.

Bramledge Renaming Contest:

The Octagon of Dumb The Octagon of Dung The Hawktagon of Broom [as in sweep] The Octagon of Damn We lost to KU Again The Octagon of Despair The This Is Truly Not An Octagon Because All Eight Sides are Not Equal of Doom The Octagon Of Decimated Brain Function The Outhousetagon Of Crap

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 9 months ago

My vote is for The Hawktagon of Broom [as in sweep]

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Hawktagon of Domination

Its time to build a new barn aggies. We own this one.

And you are welcome milendal!

Kent Wells 10 years, 9 months ago

Someone said she is dating Stuckey. So, my thoughts are purely avoiding Buffaloes. Besides, her mom is probably more my speed...

Philip Garver 10 years, 9 months ago

Rex Walters and San Francisco just beat Gonzaga

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

Big Daddy--glad you are staying up late night--you beat me to the punch. Former Jayhawk, Rex Walters, and coach for the SF Dons, beat Gonzaga. The Zags were #8 in the Coaches Poll.

7texdude 10 years, 9 months ago

We can pick apart Tyshawn and Brady for that manner, but they helped us win tonight. A big win! If we are going to win a national championship, then those two guys are going to be a big part of it. Like 'em or not.

I really laugh when people, including myself sometimes, start screaming at TT and yell for EJ. But the reason he is not getting off the bench is his defense. That's why Self sticks with TT, BM and TR. They play hard on D. EJ has not figured it out yet. And, guys, never compare EJ to Mario again......unless he gets busted for grass. Mario was a thief on D and EJ isn't close to that yet.

Regardless, Rock Chalk Jayhawks! Stuck the 'Cats again. Hah! Nothing but jerkoffs in Manhatten tonight!

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 9 months ago

I think I posted that link several games ago. Thanks though.

She was looking pretty sweet tonight too.

Don't be talkin bout their mama!

Martini_Boy 10 years, 9 months ago

THE OCTOGON OF SHERRON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David Howell 10 years, 9 months ago

Well, a victory on the road is sweet anytime ! I personally think we will see the results come March as we struggle through several tough road games ...... Sure everyone wanted to beat the Gay-Staters by 15, but lets face it, the environment was tough, the refs did everything to keep the game close, and we didn't bring our A game.

We need Marcus to stay strong and start making those simple bunny putbacks. He has been a little off the past few games. But the stupid fouls of our bigs proved that we must continue to get TRob and JW some timely minutes in each and every game. WE are going to need them at some point and I'd like to hope they are more seasoned when we need them to deliver.

Our free throws could be our achilles in March in a tight game. I really was glad that Kief was taken out in the last minute of regulation to prevent putting him on the line.

Tyshawn delivered for the most part during most of the game. With TT we are going to have moments of brillance and ineptness in each game. But he is a player and we will need him most nights just like we couldn't have won it without him tonight. I've hated on TT myself with the rest of you, but we need to be patient. Collins hasn't exactly lit up the stat book the last couple of games like we are accustomed to.

Xavier had an okay first half and some timely rebounds. But it was quite obvious in the second half that he didn't belong in the game. Keep fighting X, we need your minutes, but thank god for Brady and his lock down defense and timely shooting !

Was it me or did we really forget how to run much of an offense from about the 10 minute mark down to about 5 minutes to go in the game ? They kept trapping up top and we seemed content to run our 3 point line offense without much success. Why can't we drive more to the bucket ? Usually only good things happen when you do it effectively ..... like easy shots or free throws.

Anyone going to the game in Allen Fieldhouse WEST have fun cheering for the Hawks ! I just hope our next couple of easy games don't take our edge off before Big Monday on the 8th with Texas ............

Kelly Hanrahan 10 years, 9 months ago

globaljaybird - who played in the 2nd half that did not play in the 1st half? If your comment refers to Withey - he did play in the 1st half. He guarded the in-bounds play at the end of the half.

Milhawkee 10 years, 9 months ago

A couple of things:

I watched back that 5-second call against us with about 3 minutes left in the game. I wish I had the video to post it here. It was 3 seconds tops and he even started before Morningstar picked up the ball.

Also: The Hawk-tagon of Pwned or The Sherron-tagon of Boom... Goes the Dynamite!

Jonathan Briles 10 years, 9 months ago

Highelitemajor - You have no clue what you are talking about. You just ramble on about what your opinion is with no real base. You just make up things in your head and try to defend them as if they were actual facts. Any person with an unclouded thought would never doubt what Self does. I would seriously doubt if Self would give one seconds thought to giving two freshman playing time if it would help the team. It would only make KU that much better next year and he would know that.

Look I love EJ and I think he could be another Mario, but at this moment Tyshawn is the better player. He makes mistakes and he makes me very angry at times but every player has mistakes and you should not put someone down for being in a slump. He will come out of it. He was great as a freshman and a lot of people come to struggle in their sophomore years. That is exactly why their is something called the sophomore slump.

Leave Tyshawn alone and just stop questioning Self. RCJH

Milhawkee 10 years, 9 months ago

Or when March comes around, The Octagon Fishin'.

waywardJay 10 years, 9 months ago

hawktagon of Broom.... i concur....


Oh crap.

Dustin Gudde 10 years, 9 months ago

So Reed shoots 4-4 with 15 points last game and plays 10 minutes this game? I don't understand!

ParisHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Just finished watching the game (time zone issues). Great, great game, admirable mutual respect.

Sherron's legend continues to grow.

Will Brady come back next year or jump to the NBA? Do you notice in closeups he's the only one who's never out of breath? If I were in Lawrence, every time he touched the ball I would chant "one more year!"

I'm with the other posters who defend Taylor, we needed his kind of player out there and he contributed.

Who in the country has a better road win this season?

fansincewilt 10 years, 9 months ago

Could this have been a preview of the National Championship game? I don't see many teams beating this highly motivated K-State team. I think they will destroy Syracuse. If they get refs that allow you to play some, other teams are in trouble. They play like their coach looks. How in the world could this team be this good? Toughness is the proper word for a necessity in playing this team. BS is correct in emphasizing that concept. Texas, even though good enough, is just not tough enough to beat this team.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

BannerforKirk: I never said EJ should have played last night. I agree, that environment was not the place for an inexperienced freshman. If you actually read what I wrote, and as I've said all year, we should have committed to EJ early to put him in a position where he could have been ready for this, and for March.

Anyone who watched the game knows Self's comments about Taylor are nothing more than a coach massaging his investment. Trying to provide public encouragement to the player he has invested so much in. To try to make him better. He now has no choice.

Anyone who watched the game knows that Taylor played horribly. His turnovers in crunch time were something we should be ready for come March. I went back and watched it again last night. Taylor, on three occasions, gets taken out of position on defense by a simple cross-over dribble .. twice he didn't shuffle with it, he crossed over himself. Remember the three by the walk-on at Tennessee?

KanFan27: Again, my point has always been to give EJ the minutes to get him ready. Did you actually watch the game? I did not say he should have played over Taylor last night. And look, if you want to be a Self rubber stamp, you go right ahead. But while we should trust his judgment, we should also realize he is not perfect. Why even be on this thread if all you are is a cheerleader. By your logic, because Self does it, it must be right. He is perfection. Good luck with that. The guy has made exactly one final four, and was a open three against Davidson away from have none. I'll take Self over any other coach, but perfection he is not.

Parishaw: "I'm with the other posters who defend Taylor, we needed his kind of player out there and he contributed." I am completely baffled by these Taylor defenders. Did you not see how he nearly singlehandedly gave the game away? Did you not see his defensive breakdowns? Tell me one time he made an effective post entry pass. Dusty_Pants86 -- I would have rather had Reed in than Taylor down the stretch.

fansincewilt: You should reevaluate your love for K-State. See how they play the rest of the season on the road. They lost to Ok St at home, Missouri on the road. They are good, but fringe top 10. Now, if Wally Judge breaks out, you have a much different team.

Watch the game again, watch Taylor.

cchawk 10 years, 9 months ago

I'd like to commend Collins for his sportsmanship. Towards the end of regulation, when a KSU player got poked accidentally in the eye and not sure which side was the cause, Collins was keeping the peace. At that point it could have gotten very heated in such a tense rivalry game. The handshakes and hugs at the end sure was the cherry on the top.

jaybate 10 years, 9 months ago


A great idea to rename the execrably badged Bramlage! Of those read so far, I vote for your Octagon of Dung, or The Hawktagon.

Since others are far better than me at brevity, I will live up to my only partially deserved reputation and try some more esoteric and lengthy that others won't have to this sort of dirty work for The Legacy. :-)

The Eight-Sided Casket

The Experimental Losing Barn

The Pitiful Purple Polygon

The No-Matter-How-Many-Sides-They-Put-on-a-Building-They-Still-Can't-Beat-KU Coliseum.

The One-and-Only-Positive-Fibonacci-Number-Approach-that-also-Generates-the-Largest-Percentage-of-Bad-Seats-for-a-Basketball-Arena-Possible Coliseum.

Loss-Is-K-St8's-F8 Coliseum

The Only-K-State-Could-Design-an-Octagon-to-Enclose-a-Rectangle Coliseum.

The Octet-of-Bricks-in-an-Age-of-Bytes-that-Shows-Just-How-Far-Behind-KSU-Still-Is Coliseum.

The 8-Is-Infinity-Turned-Vertical-in-the-New-World-Order-Yet-KU-Is-Still-Infinitely-Superior-to-KSU Coliseum

The Dan Brown Coliseum


All for now.

Rock Chalk!

Jonathan Briles 10 years, 9 months ago

Highelitemajor - I realize that self is not perfect. I know that he makes a lot of mistakes but you were implying in an earlier post that Self was intentionally, and knowingly hurting our chances for the NC because he refused to play two freshman. That is just idiotic. I know that self is not perfect and he does things that bother me but I still believe that he does what he thinks is best, and ask most people who are in the professional basketball world and they will tell you that Self is one of the best.

It is obvious that Taylor makes a lot of mistakes. Every fan knows this. Honestly though even with the playing time that EJ could have gotten there is one thing that he cannot have over Taylor and that is experience and composure. If you put EJ in the game he would not have had the guts to take it to the hole, he would have passed it off or turned it over. Even if he does have the guts which I hope he does and respect him enough to think he might, a freshman in that situation most likely would not make 8 of 9 free throws. Taylor may make mistakes but he can be very clutch. A freshman such as EJ may have a lot of young talent but he has not gathered the intangibles yet needed to play on this team. Especially not in such a hostile environment. Now I realize your going to say that you were not talking about this game you were talking about the whole season and having him built up for this game, but what I'm saying is that even if EJ had played all season showing up last night he would have been shocked and not known what to do in such a hostile environment and made as many or more mistakes than Taylor did. I see your point of view and to an extent share your opinion but I do not understand why you cannot see eye to eye with the people who support Taylor.

ltljim64 10 years, 9 months ago

so..... does that game mess up the 'Top 10 games' listing at all.....

Was a great game for any fan of basketball.... and even better to be a Jayhawk!

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

KUFan27: You say "If you put EJ in the game he would not have had the guts to take it to the hole, he would have passed it off or turned it over." Your premise in that statement was putting him in the game last night, which I never suggested (and you recognized that). But your point is, I think, that just because he's a freshman, he would not have done as well as Taylor. That's what I get from your post.

There are freshmen all over the country playing well. Taylor started last year as a freshman. And freshmen can play well in hostile environments. Your point is beyond speculation. My point, which can be viewed by simply watching the game tape from the 2:00 minute mark last night is undeniable. Taylor makes a critical turnover, up by three with 40 or so seconds left. They score, get fouled, and tie it up with a free throw. Then, he does it again, throwing the ball at Collins feet. There is a tie up, and we are lucky to get the ball on the possession arrow. Then, in overtime, he does it again, getting a stupid charge call with about a minute left. Ok, great, he does score and get fouled once (and again, this is only his second real finish at the hoop in five games). Ok, great, he hits his free throws (7 of 8 .. your conclusion that EJ wouldn't do that is, again, mere speculation. I would "speculate" that EJ would have finished a couple of those that Taylor doesn't).

My point is the inconsistency, and the clear knack for making boneheaded plays in crunch time could kill our season.

Ask yourself this: If you could have one player on your team for two more seasons, who would you choose, EJ or Taylor? Even the biggest Taylor apologists will likely say EJ. That answer is why EJ should have been given the minutes in December.

Ask yourself this: Collins cramps up in the Elite 8 vs. Duke, or Villanova, you name it. Do you want the ball in Taylor's hands, down one, with 15 seconds to play? Don't see this as too remote, because that's how you should judge this guy. And each and everyone of you know the likely result if this happens.

KULA 10 years, 9 months ago

Self is totally wasting the deepest bench in D-1. As I've posted here before, "What are you gonna do when Cole gets in foul trouble in a big game and you don't have anyone(Withey) on the bench with enuf game experience that you can't put them in for a stretch without worrying about them making a mistake? Why hasn't Withey been playing 4 min/half since he got eligible like Cole did when he was a freshman? Now you're stuck with a situation where if he has to go in, he goes in cold and nervous cuz he hasn't played all year. Exactly the same sit' with EJ. Aren't these two supposed to be your #1's at their position next year? Then why aren't you getting them any PT experience? Especially when you're averaging the biggest margins of victory in the nation. Self is wearing Sherron out and it's gonna show come tournament time--just like it did last year. Self is just plain coaching SCARED! Scared someone's gonna make a mistake. You've got three players with quite possibly future NBA talent and they don't even get off the bench. What a waste! And the deepest team in D-1 is down to a 7/8 man rotation--Why? And I'm still waiting to see Self actually draw up a play for crunch time (besides just saying "Give it to Sherron") The kids played great in a tough venue, but the coach gives them NOTHING to work with.

Joel Thomas 10 years, 8 months ago

KULA, you are way off base. When Self came in to replace Roy I was skeptical, but in Self's tenure he has displayed his bona fides. Firstly, he is an amazing recruiter. Whatever is said about the Morrises and Henrys coming to us only after Calipari defected to UK - they're here. When assessing a coach for an elite program, this is what you want most, since players win games more than anything else. How thankful we should be that he convinced Sherron to come to KU. And re: that last play on which Sherron put us on top for good, it wasn't "just saying 'Give it to Sherron,'" as Sherron said in his post-game interview. The play was drawn for him to deliver a clutch shot, something of which he's proved himself quite capable. For what other player should Self "just give it to?" Nice try, KULA. Secondly, however his rotation for this game shook out, you have to acknowledge his ability to adeptly juggle blue chip personalities (see: 2008 National Champions), so I suggest you not so quickly and harshly judge his short rotation on this night. I admit it's true that real game time experience will help players like Withey and EJ improve so that next year they'll be something to reckon with. However, you have to realize that this year's team has a very real chance to win another national championship. We are spoiled because our team is really good every year, but if you've been following the team like I have, you know that when you have a chance to win a championship, you go for it. Final Fours, Elite Eights, they're nice but they're also ultimately a disappointment. Self is best managing this national championship caliber roster and recent results demand our respect and faith, lest you genuinely, in your heart of hearts, think you'd do better. Which I genuinely, in my heart of hearts, doubt. This was a good win. Enjoy it. I'm watching it again right now.

KULA 10 years, 8 months ago

daneiorg85--I see what you're saying, but I don't agree. Granted, Self is a good recruiter, but he's a terrible game coach. These kids never have a set play to run in crunch time. I've watched alot of KU ball too, like you, and they never run a play in crunch time--just Sherron trying to create. If you can verbally diagram that last play for me, other than just "give to Sherron and let him create," I'll admit I'm wrong. Nothing wrong with "giving it to Sherron (the best clutch player in D-1) if you don't know how to draw up a play, but I expect more from the COACH.

As for rotation, I'm thinking about a National Championshop this year, too. And when you have more blowouts (largest margin of victory average in the nation) than any other team, there's no excuse for not getting some subs in for valuable game experience, to get some rest for the 1st team. Especially when those subs are your expected PTP'ers next year. The K State game is a perfect example of what I'm saying--Cole's in foul trouble, and you can't leave Withey in cuz he's inexperienced and you're afraid he'll make a mistake. And Sherron cramps up, and you can't put EJ in cuz you didn't get him any game experience earlier in the year and you're afraid he can't handle the pressure. My idea of "going for it" in a possible Nat. Champ season means having players ready to come in for a few minutes in an emergency (Cole's fouls, Sherron's cramps). Btw, expect to see Sherron cramp up a lot more if Self continues to play him 38 min/game. The kid needs some in-game rest. Self is riding him to death.

Of course, I'm not an NCAA coach making multi million $, so it doesn't bother me that you doubt my coaching ability, And I agree, it was a good win. But in my opinion, that's despite Self rather than because of him.

Joel Thomas 10 years, 8 months ago

KULA - I get what you're saying, but I do think it's picking nits a little. Like Roy not calling time outs. I admit, given my focus on KU over any other team by a large margin, I think it's difficult to cull out my bias and judge Self's coaching to anyone other than Roy (both widely considered among the nation's elite). I think Self's teams, while possibly less fun to watch than Roy's, are tougher and execute on the defensive end to a point Roy could not or cared less to attain. There's a reason why Self has succeeded at Tulsa, Illinois, and now at Kansas. But it's not just defense and toughness - this team is among the best in offense as well, as measured by sophisticated metrics. I'm certain this doesn't happen (nor the 1 loss record) by giving just giving the ball to Sherron, though that's not the worst thing that Self could do. I don't have the Xs and Os down for the last play in which Sherron gave us the lead, but I'm sure a specific play was drawn up and ordered, if not executed perfectly. Thankfully Sherron is excellent when a play breaks down. I'd love to see EJ, Withey, et al get valuable minutes but not if the cost is a loss to KSU. You're right that it'd be great to have subs be ready should something happen to our All-Americans, but really, even if our subs play major minutes this year, I don't think they'd be ready to step in and win a championship.

All this said, I respect your opinion. So we disagree. But we won't care when they cut down the nets in Indy.

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