Friday, December 31, 2010

Self: Starting lineup won’t be revealed until gametime

Kansas head coach Bill Self gets at his defense during the first half, Tuesday, Nov. 23, 2010 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas head coach Bill Self gets at his defense during the first half, Tuesday, Nov. 23, 2010 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Kansas basketball coach Bill Self said Friday that he hadn't decided on Sunday's starting lineup against Miami (Ohio) and wouldn't until the day of the game.

"I am going to wait and watch practice the next couple days," Self said Friday after KU's holiday hoops clinic for youths. "You guys (media) will know whenever they run out there. I told the guys starting spots at least temporarily are up for grabs and (we'll) play the guys that perform the best at practice."

Self said his team's inconsistency had made it tough to determine who should start.

"You want to play the guys that are performing the best, and it's been different guys every time," Self said. "Thomas (Robinson) and Travis (Releford) have been our best two performers the last couple games on the interior if you add it all together. Certainly, I thought Elijah (Johnson) played well the other day.

"One game doesn't make it, but we need to have some separation. Our best players need to become a little bit more consistent, which I believe they will. Practice has gone OK. But I told all our players that positions are up for grabs, but isn't that the way it should be every day? That's no different than the way it should be every single day."

Self said he hadn't decided if Marcus Morris, who lost his starting spot after getting ejected in the Cal game, would return to the starting lineup.

In KU's last game against UT Arlington, Self started Josh Selby, Tyrel Reed, Johnson, Robinson and Markieff Morris.


KU_FanSince75 7 years, 4 months ago

Suspense, suspense! Keep us guessing, coach Self. It will be interesting.

NJHAWK 7 years, 4 months ago

I thought that Self does not like to make a big deal about the starting five.

KU_FanSince75 7 years, 4 months ago

If I was Self, this would be my starting five: Selby, Reed, Releford, Robinson, Kieff. But hey, it's fun to speculate, right?

kesmithstl1 7 years, 4 months ago

Interesting you don't have Marcus out there. He is still the best player on KU right now. Just in a slump. When he entered the game against UT-San Antonio, KU was down by 5. When he went back to the bench KU was up by 8.

DevilHawk 7 years, 4 months ago

Actually, I'm thinking EJ, Selby, Reed, Releford, Robinson.

Marcus and Markieff seem to play much better when they are on the floor together initially. Rotate out EJ or Selby and Robinson for Marcus and Markieff, and slide Releford to the 3.

Mike Bratisax 7 years, 4 months ago

I've been surprised to see Marcus off so many fans starting 5. I still think he is the best player on the team and doesn't pick up quite as many dumb fouls as Kief or TRob (although not by a lot).

Tony Bandle 7 years, 4 months ago

Anyone but Morningstar...his value is off the bench.

Just for grins can you "accidently" announce "starting at the small forward position.....BEN MCLEMORE!!!!!

NebraskaJayhawk 7 years, 4 months ago

Morningstar's value is on the bench, not off.

kufankam 7 years, 4 months ago

Releford's defense was great!! I really like the attitude, energy and hustle he is playing with! I am wanting to see him out there for his defense alone!

Matt Bowers 7 years, 4 months ago

My two cents:

Brady Reed EJ Kieff Marcus "Mook"

With the first two players off the bench being TRob and Travis. I know that most people are down on Brady right now, but he makes good passes and plays great defense. EJ values the ball every possession and plays good defense.

This lineup will value the ball, play hard defense, and kill on the glass. EJ gives you the player that can slash to the bucket and at times Reed does as well. Brady will create opportunities and feed the post. Happy New Year!

Rock Chalk

aerohawk 7 years, 4 months ago

You really think Selby is only the 8th best player on this team or was it an oversight?

Matt Bowers 7 years, 4 months ago

No. If you want the focus to be defense then I believe those are the players who perform it best. Selby and TT are the best players on the team besides Marcus.

Rock Chalk

WichitaHawk1434 7 years, 4 months ago

WHERE are you putting Selby? If you think he the 8th best player, you must be an MU or ksu fan

Michael Leiker 7 years, 4 months ago

Selby completely lost his man on 2 occassions Wednesday night. One time his man cut from opposite side wing to ball side block and he was still standing at the shoulder opposite the ball when his man caught a pass for a layup...he went straight to the bench. He seems to really have no clue what is going on defensively. Offensively he's forcing shots and has been pretty sloppy with the ball. I don't see how Self could start him right now.

NebraskaJayhawk 7 years, 4 months ago

I would agree that he's not there defensively yet. But I think with a talent like Selby, you play him purely for the offensive set that he has and get him the experience to mature defensively.

Matt Bowers 7 years, 4 months ago

Wichita, I'll need your help next week when the game is played on CBS. Please make sure that you get a link up for those of us who live outside the viewing area. Thanks. Happy New Year Hawk fans.

Rock Chalk

waywardJay 7 years, 4 months ago

You clearly are not watching the same team as the rest of us.

jamsim3 7 years, 4 months ago

Brady may have played good defense last year but he is way off his defensive and offensive games up to this point. He is continually on the side of his man or playing catchup. Now he cannot hit the open jump shot which he used to be deadly. He has given a lot to KU and I hope he goes out with a bang. At this point however my starting five would be Reed, EJ, Selby and the Twins. Off the bench TyShawn, Reed, Releford, T-Rob and Withey. I would end the game with whoever is having a good game. I also believe coach needs to find some minutes for Woolridge. It looks as if he has a natural ability to lose his defender and create the mismatch. I think we are missing this kids talents. Now I'm off to coach my seven year old girls bball game.

Happy New Year Hawks!!

Hank Cross 7 years, 4 months ago

Brady over Selby. Are you serious? Brady has already proven time and time again that he cannot keep up with anyone with any amount of speed. He didn't even shut down those athletic specimens such as Keiton Page at the the game at OSU last year or Ali Faroukmanesh. Even at the end of '09 he had to resort to fouling at the end of the season as quicker player repeatedly drove right past him.

His offense is about the same any player in a trophy division intramural league.

Truthhawk 7 years, 4 months ago

A "Brady over Selby" opinion is good enough reason to simply ignore this post. Brady has really been spotting on D this season, too.

Mike Bratisax 7 years, 4 months ago

Selby played pretty good 'D' against TXArington and held Reed to only 6 pts. Not sure you can expect better from a freshman in his 3rd game.

AsadZ 7 years, 4 months ago

Dont give up on TT just as of yet. He had two sub par games however keep in mind that the chemistry of team had changed in those two games upon arrival of Selby. TT was playing really well and helped us immensely win the 9 games without Selby. He is the quickest player on the team and has the best ability to drive the ball to the basket and finish, something we have not seen as of yet from Selby in the three games. Plus TT has the experience of playing in the hostile Big 12 environments and knows what it takes to come back and win on the road. He did not start the game against UTA simply because of no practice time and that was not his fault, HCBS had admitted it as well. Unless TT's game declines further which I am very much hopeful won't happen he will be in the starting line up.

DevilHawk 7 years, 4 months ago

Taylor seems to have had some problems adjusting to Selby being in the game with him.

I think that EJ played his way into the starting lineup for the next two games in place of Taylor - but that Taylor will be starting the Michigan game and throughout the rest of the season unless he warrants being benched.

The primary goal for the next two games needs to be finding the balance on the team again.

WichitaHawk1434 7 years, 4 months ago

How quick you are forgetting how good Brady has been in the past. He is still of great value to this team

Truthhawk 7 years, 4 months ago

You're right, he was pretty good in the 2008-09 season. Then he tanked at the end, and was pretty poor most of last season. And he's been pretty bad this year. What game are you watching?

KU_FanSince75 7 years, 4 months ago

Interesting on the starters above-----Self will figure out a starting lineup. Nice to have that problem with talent overflowing.

Robert Brock 7 years, 4 months ago

According to Self, nobody is standing out. Mediocrity all around.

NebraskaJayhawk 7 years, 4 months ago

I understand he contributes to feeding the post. He does excel at that. Beyond that I don't see where he fits into the picture. He is waaaay overated as a defensive player. He is good fundamentally, but lacks the quickness to lock down...let alone guard a decent perimeter player. Sorry, he just does. And beyond feeding the post, it's pretty much a brainer to play any other guard for offensive purposes. I'm not saying he's not a good kid or that he doesn't have some skill, but there's just too much talent on this team for him to be playing at this point.

NebraskaJayhawk 7 years, 4 months ago

That post was meant to go underneath Wichita's as a reply.

Michael Leiker 7 years, 4 months ago

I'd like to see:

Reed Johnson Releford Robinson

Then whoever else at the other post. I'd say Mc Morris but I'd rather not see him get back in the lineup so quickly after the immaturity at Cal.

waywardJay 7 years, 4 months ago

I'm not sure how this one is so hard to imagine.

Tyshawn, Josh, Tyrel, and morri.

Subs- Releford, Elijah, Thomas, and Josh.

Should only play in case of fire, or possible withdrawal of Alumni dollas - Brady,

Truthhawk 7 years, 4 months ago

Maybe you had a bit to drink prior to your post :>)

How about Taylor, EJ, Selby, Marcus, TRob?

Subs - Markieff, Reed, Releford and Morningstar.

waywardJay 7 years, 4 months ago

here's the scoreboard on our starting lineups at our best success.... Two combos, a scoring with forward, a designated shooter and a defensive postman.

Two Combos - Tyshawn, Josh, Elijah ( take your pick.... ) Scoring Forward - Marcus Designated Shooter- Tyrel Defensive Postman - Markieff or Thomas.

Personally I think Thomas is the better player, but it's better to have him playing an impact role on the seocnd line.... You need that second guard off the bench ( ALA Sherron 2008 ) and that matches any the combos you don't play. Then, use releford as the Do-it-all player of the bench ( really we can use him anywhere.... ) Then take your pick of Royce, Niko, Jordan or Brady until Mario gets "cleared" again.

Steve Yeakel 7 years, 4 months ago

Twins are good hearted guys (just look at their smiles up above) but hard to motivate to play good defense without fouling, and to play consistently good. Will be hard for Coach Self to favor one over the other, or to play them off each other. They are mostly team players, but always have each other's backs. So maybe best to play them as pair. Trob and either Travis or Withey can be the other pair and play a lot. Or, if post depth is not a problem (if Travis can play the 4 well enough or Withey can get consistently good), then playing Marcus at the 3, and having Kieff and Trob out there, might be part of our most explosive starting 5 (with Josh and either Tyshawn or Tyrel or EJ out there). Lots of good guys, not lots of selfishness, they just still struggling with playing great defense. But we have the best coach in the country, he is working hard to get this group to its best play.

Joe Ross 7 years, 4 months ago


jaybate 7 years, 4 months ago

This would be my preferred lineup, because I love going big, but only if...

--Withey and Little were able to play 15 minutes a piece backup along with Releford, who can (probably not going to happen);

--Mook, Kieff and TRob got their fouls UC (probably not this season, but next season looks could be feasible);

--Marcus played PG to hold down the TOs that would occur with Ty and Josh (until next season, when more experienced, Ty and Josh handling the ball a lot guaranty a 15 TO games as a new norm, but old guard Bill Self could never to turn it over to Marcus even half time, as surely as Larry Brown would never turn the PG over to Danny Manning);

--FTs were eliminated (with Marcus at 61% and TRob at 48% and Taylor at 69%, the bad free throwing shooting, i.e., the downward variances from their averages, would be nearly impossible to win with, and though the zebras swallow their whistles for extended periods, they do still call some, so this is not likely to happen);

--Tyshawn's and Josh's shooting were cut back to 8 FGAs per game combined and we played through the bigs full time (I'm withholding judgement awhile on Josh's shooting after the 1-9 fiasco, but Self clearly wants Josh pulling the trigger 10 times a game);

--Self would play zone at least half the time (when hell has a hail storm); or

--you substituted Reed for Tyshawn and went ahead and turned the team over to Josh (I don't want to do this this season, because Josh would probably generate way more TOs than Tyshawn, but it would enable the big lineup you have suggested, because Reed can do most everything in the floor game Ty and Josh can do, plus he shoots vastly better at the FT stripe, TOs it less, and trifectates sharply better than Tyshawn and I suspect, as Josh tapers down toward 36% career from trey, he will shoot sharply better than Josh, but no way is Self going to give up Tyshawn's awesome help defense, or Josh's offensive mojo and swagger).

Seriously, this could be a superior line-up next season, if everyone comes back, especially if TRob learned to shoot FTs. Tyshawn will be a solid, maybe an excellent PG by next season. Board rats don't cut him any slack for having had to learn to play PG his junior year. This is his first season really running the team, not just dribbling the ball up the floor for Sherron. I think it is amazing that he has had just one slump so far, though if it goes on much longer he could be enabling EJ.

Selby with a season under his belt will be able to hold down the TOs, when he handles the point duties.

Starting two great PGs, plus having Nadiir Tharpe, a low TO frosh PG, and Rolls Royce, for backup, would create a sufficient rotation at the 1 and 2.

Marcus and Travis could handle the 3.

Kieff and maybe Withey, if he is off the death watch, could handle the 5

TRob will need a back-up for fouled up games, which recruiting ought to supply.

Mike Bratisax 7 years, 4 months ago

Although I wish differently, Mario is probably done.

waywardJay 7 years, 4 months ago

As much as I would love to see this...... This would require a thumper behind them we do not currently have..... as it is imagined two of these guys playing 30+ minutes would get into foul trouble, we would need a fourth Big who is proven behind them.....

Sadly, As Jeff Withey went down to injury ( most likely because of the WEight put on ) the weight flew off him and killed this line up. With the recent positive uptick for Releford, this is partially feasible with Releford AND Little as hack and slap small forwards ( 25 total fouls on the post sounds a bit good to be true against Sub.500 free throw shooters....

I, unlike M. Jaybate, believe by the end of conference season Tyshawn and Josh will have their turnovers below 7 a game combined. they'll figure it out just like they always do. I still suspect that as athletic as this team is, it will be up near 13-14 TO's per game.... which will probably cost us a game or three but we'll get through that ok.Probably end up the Two in the South or East whereever Duke is Not.

Remember it took until Late February for our 2008 team to get all pistons firing.

Michael Potter 7 years, 4 months ago

jross has the line up for march. Provided the twins get back underneath the basket at times. Thomas is going to be a rebounding machine come tournament time, and by then TT and Selby should be working together.

joeloveshawks 7 years, 4 months ago

This is my starting lineup... M Morris. M Morris. Selby. Reed. Taylor. With the exception of Selby, these are the guys with the most experience and in my opinion have the best chemistry. I think Robinson is the best 6th man we have on the squad as he is an incredible energy player and can come in for either Morris twin. Releford, Brady and EJ are all great guys to have coming off the bench as well. Releford and EJ just need a bit more time to mature and they will be outstanding starters next year. I think more of Brady than I think some of you other guys do. He has been one of the leaders in minutes over the last 2 years and is one of the smartest and least selfish players we have. Marcus will come out of his slump and both of the twins play their best basketball with each other on the floor. Selby is a great compliment to the twins as he and Reed can knock down shots and Taylor is our best PG. Taylor will never be Aaron Miles, Russell Robinson or Sherron Collins, but I think he is the best guy we have in that role at the moment.

Philip Garver 7 years, 4 months ago

The twins and Reed have been our best players. Any serious lineup has them starting. Although he has at times been a turnover machine, any of Selby's defensive liabilities are outweighed by his offensive prowess. He must start. I personally would love to see Robinson with this lineup, but any pressure man defense would cause this lineup too many problems. Therefore, either EJ or TT must be with this lineup.

jaybate 7 years, 4 months ago

This is the best and most succinct argument yet. The next few weeks are going to be an experiment in who can play better with Selby--TT, or EJ.

jaybate 7 years, 4 months ago

jaybate's New Year's Day Prediction of Bill Self's Mind-Screwing Starting Line-Up vs. Cupcake No. 2 aka Miami of Ohio.

1 Niko Roberts

2 Royce Woolridge

3 Jordan Juenneman

4 Justin Wesley

5 Matt Kleinmann (ringer wearing Jeff Withey's jersey)

These guys deserve a start for all their hard work, and starting them would heap maximum scorn and insult upon the real starters and serious back-ups to amp these guys to a conference level of intensity that they have so far not shown.

These guys could well play three minutes before Self sends in the regulars. And if they were to play through Rolls Royce, a future regular, they could extend their PT to five minutes.

Historical precedent for this sort of a line-up was the start Self game to Kleinmann in pre season two seasons ago as a slap to wake up Cole Aldrich.

These five reserves, though limited in ability outside of Royce, would not burden the team with quite a few negatives brought by the starters and serious back-ups. To wit...

None of them will swat the ball out of a referee's hands for a technical, as did 5th year senior Brady Morningstar, or go 0-3 vs a cupcake, or make mental errors on defense vs. a cupcake.

None of them will turn the ball over as much as Tyshawn has all season.

None of them will be more surrealistically inconsistent than Josh has been in his first three games, nor get to the rim fewer times than Josh has, so far.

None of them will shoot free throws as poorly as TRob, who by the end of this season will probably exceed Wilt Chamberlain, as KU's worst free throw shooting big in KU history.

Mike Bratisax 7 years, 4 months ago

Vegas adds?? 1,000,000-1 Hard work earns respect, not starts.

jaybate 7 years, 4 months ago

None of them will be as foul prone as Marcus and Kieff, who strangely seem to have as many foul problems against cupcakes, as they do against D1 majors.

None of them will take as long to develop at the point as EJ has, who it could be validly argued has been the slowest developing 5 star ever recruited to KU.

None of them will struggle with learning to be glue, as Travis has, even with a rosso Italian smoking jacket.

None of them will lack as much energy, and have lost as much weight, shoot as poorly from the FT stripe, spend more time injured, and achieve less so far than Withey has.

None of them will fall as far as Tyrel in their trey shooting from last season and have as hot of a sister as Tyrel.

(Ooops! I violated my own rule against mentioning Tyrel's sis. Looks, like I, too, have to go to the virtual toughening box.)

Self now not only has "getting better week," he has added "button pushing week."

I wouldn't be surprised if he calls Miami of Ohio's coach and tells them to come out and start slapping his players around, while Self debates Townsend about which restaurant now serves the best steak.

Oh, but these guys have seen nothing yet!

It is already clear what Self is doing: he is yanking the team all over the place right now, while giving them the false dead line of the start of the conference season as the time when he will let up with the hazing.


We are going to see big time button pushing with this bunch till the end of January.

Self is pushing so many buttons, he is probably going to get repetitive stress syndrome in both his index fingers.

Go, Bill, go!!!!

Josh, once you are comfortable, as Kevin MCCarthy shouts at the end of '"Invasion of the Body Snatchers:" you're next! you're next!!!!!!!!

Tony Bandle 7 years, 4 months ago

My starting lineup:

Jo Jo White Wilt Chamberlain Paul Pierce Clyde Lovellete and any guy who ever attended Kansas.

And we'd win a hell of a lot of games!!

It's not the "starting" lineup that's the "crunch time" lineup that truly matters. John Havalcak didn't start a Celtic game for almost 10 seasons...but he was always there at the end.

This should be the true question...."who do you want out there when it's all on the line?"

Truthhawk 7 years, 4 months ago

You are right. John Havalcak never started a game for the Celtics. I don't think he ever played in one either :>)

DevilHawk 7 years, 4 months ago

The actual starting line up:

Taylor, Selby, Reed, Robinson, Withey

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