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Thursday, December 23, 2010

Keegan

Lack of composure in chippy game vs. Cal shows KU basketball team’s immaturity

Kansas forward Thomas Robinson celebrates a dunk before Cal defenders Gary Franklin (4) and Richard Solomon (25) during the second half, Wednesday, Dec. 22, 2010 at Haas Pavilion in Berkeley, California. Also pictured is Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor.

Kansas forward Thomas Robinson celebrates a dunk before Cal defenders Gary Franklin (4) and Richard Solomon (25) during the second half, Wednesday, Dec. 22, 2010 at Haas Pavilion in Berkeley, California. Also pictured is Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor.

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Highlights: KU vs. Cal

Kansas defeated Cal, 78-63 on Wednesday Dec. 22, 2010 at Haas Pavilion in Berkeley, Calif.

— For a two-minute blitz at the beginning of the second half, Kansas University’s basketball team showed its very high ceiling, as high as any team’s in the country.

Nobody tried to do too much, and as a result, everybody did a lot. Tyshawn Taylor, Josh Selby, Tyrel Reed, Marcus Morris and Markieff Morris looked as if they had played together for years, and Kansas turned an eight-point lead built during a ragged first half into a 17-point advantage.

Then in a blink of an eye — that’s what eyes do when somebody gets smacked in the face by an elbow, and that somebody was Harper Kamp, elbowed by Marcus Morris under the hoop — and a couple of inspired minutes, Cal had turned it into a three-point deficit.

Marcus Morris, KU’s active career scoring leader, spent the final 17:23 in the locker room, where he wasn’t able to help his team. The Jayhawks didn’t need him to win the game, but a more talented, deeper team than Cal might have made them pay.

KU’s 78-63 victory Wednesday night on Cal’s campus came with warts and welts that need to go away soon.

Morris, who looks like such a smart player so often, is a junior. He’s been around too long to let his emotions rule his brain. He’s too important a player, looked up to too much by teammates, to pull a freshman move the way he did. And it’s not the first time.

He was far from the only player on both teams to lose his composure. Cal guard Jorge Gutierrez — the guy with the pony tail — looked to be auditioning for a boxing career and was whistled for a technical foul. KU’s Thomas Robinson, apparently tagged in the face by Gutierrez, can attest to the speed of his combatant’s hands.

Robinson picked up an intentional foul in the first half, a technical in the second. Brady Morningstar knocked the ball out of a Cal player’s hands on his way to the bench during a late break in the action and was given a technical. Robinson plays an enforcer role. Sure, he has to get better at not getting caught enforcing, but at least he’s on the right page.

Not surprisingly, it was Marcus Morris who drew the most criticism from his coach after the game.

“Cal was chippy, but we didn’t handle it well,” Kansas coach Bill Self said. “We let it bother us too much and had to get the last word. I was really disappointed in Marcus. He got exactly what he deserved, from what I was told. When guys put a wrong agenda ahead of their team, it’s very, very, very selfish.”

It’s not the first time the third-ranked, undefeated Jayhawks have gotten hot in the head this season. Self didn’t mince words as to the chief source of the problem.

“It’s because of the twins,” Self said. “They’ve got to wake up. When it gets chippy, if you’re competitive, you’ve got to beat them on the scoreboard. You don’t try to get the last word.”

Senior Tyrel Reed, the team’s most composed player, played an outstanding game, soaring high for rebounds, knocking down three-pointers and driving hard to the hoop.

“It really just comes down to maturity and not letting yourself get in that position,” Reed said of the team’s lack of composure. “As the season goes along, I think we’ll get better at that.”

If they want to give themselves their best shot to make it all the way to Houston for the Final Four, they’ll get better at it.

Comments

KU_Alumn_2000 10 years, 10 months ago

Tyrel Reed is quickly becoming one of my all time favorite Jayhawks. Great leadership on your part Tyrel. Help keep your teammates stable and on the right track...and great things could happen for this team.

I'm also impressed with Selby's attitude. A guy like Selby could easily walk into our campus thinking that it's all about him. But Selby cares more about his teammates than anything else. I thought he really worked well into our offense tonight...giving out some good chemistry.

John Randall 10 years, 10 months ago

Composure has a lot to do with background -- none of us ever completely get over the "way we wuz brung up".

On that point, Josh Selby showed us quite a bit during the fracas on the floor leading to the double technical. Instead of joining the melee, he was literally dragging his teammate out from under the pile, then helping to calm him down to keep KU from losing another player to ejection.

Mom Selby/Witherspoon gets my vote for MOTY. Not only does her boy (hardly a boy any longer) know the dribble-pass-shoot game, he knows more than a freshman can be expected about handling the provocations a team like Cal will resort to when they can't compete athletically.

hawk316 10 years, 10 months ago

KU, I was listening to Petro this morning on the radio, and he is obviously very high on Tyrel Reed. He went on and on about how much Reed contributes to this team and spoke about how he was under the radar both nationally and locally. Petro, a Syracuse alum, went so far as to say that he wouldn't trade Tyrel one-on-one with the Syracuse point guard who apparently gets a lot of media attention back east (I can't recall his name just now). Some KU fans have been a little slow in catching on to Reed's value to this team, but I think most are finally coming around.

LAJayhawk 10 years, 10 months ago

“It’s because of the twins..."

I couldn't agree more. I've noticed that hot-headed, go-after-the-guy-that-disrespected-you attitude since they got here. I love their passion, but I really wish they -- and, yes, I group them together because this is true of them both -- could control that anger and use their tremendous talents as basketball players instead of a Philly street brawlers. When Jordan got pissed, he just went out and beat people on the floor, not... well... beat people.

I see that attitude of the twins reflected across the team. I see it in TRob (see comment on Keegan's ratings). The twins -- whether they like it or not -- are the leaders on this team. They need to be the leaders. It is their turn. If they want to win, they need to lead. Everyone can lose their heads when involved in a contact sport. You push yourself to the extreme and give your body up for the win, when someone disrespects you, you want to swing back.

Only you can't. Not if you want to win. Because winners don't swing back.

They just win.

Be leaders Morris brothers.

That's how you win.

ObiWan 10 years, 10 months ago

MJ is the best ever, but even he lost his cool in the heat of competition. You obviously never saw him take a swing at Danny Ainge, Reggie Miller, John Starks, every Piston ever, etc. Yes, he usually won on the scoreboard, but he let his emotions get the best of him sometimes. That's just the nature of competition.

LAJayhawk 10 years, 10 months ago

I grew up watching MJ every night, and I remember all of those incidents specifically this morning. You are correct. My apologies. After a couple of drinks last night, I was romanticizing the best ever. I'm certainly not the first to do so.... :-)

I guess my point was more that if you want to reach the highest level, you have to learn to control that anger and turn it inward toward your game. What MJ did probably better than anyone ever was hold onto the ability to want to rip his opponents heart out and chew it up within the framework of the game. He was at his best when he focused that fierce energy into playing. That's when he dominated.

But he did lose control at times; you are definitely correct in that. Almost all do at some point when you are competing on that level. But I think we can all agree when he did that, he wasn't at his best.

Rock Chalk.

LAJayhawk 10 years, 10 months ago

Ralster, take a breath.

I didn't say Markieff did anything last night, but he's been provoked and lost his cool in games past (I remember a couple of technicals his Freshman year specifically). You are taking my post to mean they play dirty and are perhaps bangers on the streets or something. Not at all what I was saying. I mentioned Philly street brawlers because they are from Philly. And they can get physical at times. It's an analogy to describe a style of play not anything at all about them personally... I was speaking entirely about basketball in my post, not what they do in their free time. If you are offended by what you perceive as a stereotype in there, I apologize, but perhaps you are being overly sensitive? Analogies -- especially those suggesting stereotypes -- are often used to express and create a greater illustration of one's point. I was simply trying to give an image or description to what I perceive as something they can fall into.

They have been building themselves wonderfully, but they have a part of their personality that can cause them to lose control at times. If you don't see it, you are not watching close enough. They have both worked on controlling it, and both are doing very well at doing so. But, clearly, Marcus at least has some work to do in that area. I absolutely LOVE the twins, and I LOVE the fact that they aren't afraid to play physical. Not crossing that line can be one of the hardest things to do (and that is speaking from experience not any stereotype, just so we are clear). My point was if they want to reach the highest level, they have to control it and they have to get their teammates to do the same as leaders.

As to lumping them together, I'm not the only the only one to do so... I took my cue from Coach Self's quote.

William James 10 years, 10 months ago

Mark Mangino said there are some things you cant unteach in 4 years of college.

waywardJay 10 years, 10 months ago

Your suggestiong they learned this on the mean streets of Philly is hysterical, and shows your typical classy self, Fabio. They learned this from the master Thomas Izzo, back in 2009, only it was legal back then because a big 12 team wasn't doing it. Both Morris ( and Cole ) got thrown around by Izzo's front line men to the point they learned, To play in March They have to play physical.

They Do have to play phsyical, but as we can attest from tonight's game, they must play phsyical and much more intelligent. teams are going to go at them for two reasons.

They have yet to prove they can handle it.

They have yet to prove they can stop it without getting themselves taken out of the Game.

Marcus has got to understand that he's scoring option 1, and we will get bumped banged, hacked, hammered, jostled, smacked, held and more than likely B*tch slapped on occasion. He won't always, specifically on the road, On Pete Newell night in California get those calls. these guys are the Mioddle of the road teams of the Battlefield Erath Conference of basketball. They score less than 70 points on good nights. There only Hope of competing with Kansas is to take the low road and turn this match into a professional wrestling match.

Guiterriez did. Marcus bit. and the retaliator got ejected. 2 minutes for Unsportsman like conduct, 5 minure major for fighting, 10 minute game misconduct. Eject. Probably a game suspension against texas arlington ( i believe it's an automatic suspension for a flagrant bow, and likely the NCAA will see fit to punish Kansas just because we just got selby out of the penalty box.

As for markieff, He did a pretty good job of not getting ejected because he would have been a quick toss too. 19 10 and 2 is good response to Cal's version of the hack and slap.

Thomas is a different beast entirely. My issue with Thomas was not getting the techinical, it was getting the techinical for reacting to a guard. A guard punches you in the face after your best guy goes out. you don't fight with the Guard. You dunk on the Big. A hockey analogy woudl be like this.

Your playing against Old Chicago Blackhawks, jeremy roenick jaws at you... Your Al MAcinnis. he gets an elbow up high. In response you have two opitions, You can pin him against the boards and draw a minute boarding penalty or you can go find Bob Probert and knock him down. Probert will get up and lose it, take the penalty Roenick was trying to get you to draw, and you effectively let Roenick Know, his talking won't bother you.

You get punched in the face, Give him a little smile and immediately look to Tyshawn or Josh..... get a lob rain down a dunk on whatever post player you are getting and then look back at little guard and just smile at him. If big man doesn't lose his cool for getting posterized, little man will know trying to intimidate you will only get your bigs dunked on.

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 10 months ago

"Probably a game suspension against texas arlington ( i believe it's an automatic suspension for a flagrant bow, and likely the NCAA will see fit to punish Kansas just because we just got selby out of the penalty box."

Marcus won't miss the next game according to the lead story.

waywardJay 10 years, 10 months ago

The way I understood the ruling it was flgrant elbow is game + 1..... I could be wrong, I don't think we need Marcus against UTA and It might behoove Self to Sit Marcus again. another 40 minutes we have to find who our stars are.

LAJayhawk 10 years, 10 months ago

Or the message sent was "get under their skin and they will react negatively." I have a feeling more teams will do similar things. I suppose we shall see.

waywardJay 10 years, 10 months ago

Agree Ralster.

It's nice to see our boys get a littl ebit rowdy without taking it too far. Especially against a team that didn't have what it takes anyway....

The Nasty Dunk did happen, but he didn't need to pussyfoot with Joakim Jr. He's a bigger man than that in so many ways.

I don't know how many of your are famaliar with the hockey speak but for this team to become a championship type team we need thoams Robinson to develop into a cross between Keith Primeau and Chris Gratton. Phsyical player, with enough grace to get the job done.But relies on sitting in the crease and putting Defensmen on their backs.

IN Basketball terms a little bit darnell, a little bit Joey Dorsey..... Not so far to have Dorsey's lack of compsure, but more than Just Darnells aggressive rebounding elbows......

John Randall 10 years, 10 months ago

In Marcus bad reaction, it wasn't Gutless Guard, but Flamer Forward who was the provocateur. After the blown dunk at our end, Marcus was blocking out for a rebound when Kamp elbowed McM in the kidney and slipped under his already-extended arm to fake being elbowed, then set himself up for McM to actually retaliate and get caught at it. Kamp may well have a future as a Hollywood stunt man – unless his acting ability gets him roles under his own name.

waywardJay 10 years, 10 months ago

(cont. ) There's reason Mark Mangino was an ineffective bully, he was a 400 pound former Quarterback who used to get hit all the time. He never learned to dish out correctly.

TtownHawk 10 years, 10 months ago

Amen to that! Keegs fails to point out that T Rob's technical was unjustified and how the pony tailed girly man should have been thrown out for that swing. Not suprisingly, the FSN announcers saw the 15 replays just like we did and failed to see it once.

Yes, our guys need to grow up and react not by swinging back, but by putting points on the board. But Keegan, you need to also point out the thug like play that Cal was doing the whole game.

Bear86 10 years, 10 months ago

Completely agree on the announcing. I went to the game last night and recorded it. Watched it this morning and it clearly showed Guiterez throwing punches and elbows at T-Rob's face and neck when the ref's had blow the whistle for a jump ball call. The announcers even had the audacity to say the refs were doing a good job. What a joke. The ref's did a poor job of letting that game get out of control. Love the fact KU did not back down. The MM flagerent was a stupid mistake and he got what he deserved. During the game I did not see what happened but watched the replay and he clearly gave him an intentional elbow. Not very smart from your leading scorer. Rock Chalk!! F-Texas!!

actorman 10 years, 10 months ago

You're right, swishy. It took some unmitigated gall for Keegan to report what Bill Self said about the twins and to talk about the immaturity of this team. I don't think banishment is a strong enough punishment for reporting the facts; clearly Keegan should be shot.

kcglowboy 10 years, 10 months ago

Thank you, actorman. I am no Keegan fan. But I've got to give the man his props when he's right in the facts AND reports the facts in a straight-forward manner as he does here. All Keegan is doing here is taking what HCBS said and running with it. And he's correct on all counts. There's absolutely no room for Keegan-bashing in this particular column.

LAJayhawk 10 years, 10 months ago

Agree, and I tear into Keegan every chance I get.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 10 months ago

finally, someone who gets it. You can't get punked! At some point you have to hit back! Marcus shouldn't have made his elbow so obvious though. There's other places for that.

kubball99 10 years, 10 months ago

I also agree with your comments. While Marcus's foul showed a lack of composure, it was nice to see the Jayhawks stand up and not get pushed around. It was nice to see a "fire" in this team which has been absent for stretches in several games. It showed me this team does have toughness and are not going to be pushed around. Games like this are a good test for the tournament; not everyone is going to roll over just because the name "Kansas" is on the front of the jersey. Good win.

John Strayer 10 years, 10 months ago

The problem I find with Marcus ejection is the rule itself...IIRC...Kamp wasn't completely blameless in the situation...he kept pushing Morris and walking him under the basket...they get tangled up and bam.

I watch the replay...if the elbow was intentional...it was week...this rule is a disaster waiting to happen. A lot of times...just turning your body is going to lead to an ejection if your elbows are sticking out any.

John Strayer 10 years, 10 months ago

sorry...didn't proof read...for the spelling nazi's on the board: "week" above should be "weak".

JHWK 10 years, 10 months ago

You guys have got to be kidding.

We're the number 3 team in country. They are not. Yes, they instigated. Yes, Gutierrez is a total punk. BUT, he did a great job of getting under our skin and getting us to look like the team of punks.

To win against good opponents we'll need to be the team with class and composure, and we showed we are not. We're a group of gifted athletes who can't keep their $ht together. There are plenty of ways we could have reacted without the embarrassing way we all saw TRob, Marcus, Brady, Tyshawn and Elijah react. The upperclassmen are 100% at fault for knowing better, and for all the crap Brady puts up with from this board, his reaction to the taunting of the Cal Freshman should be extraordinarily embarrassing to him. If it is not, there is a real problem with him, and anyone who thinks it was OK.

I was disgusted as a KU fan. I always preach about how classy a program HCBS brings to the table - even last night's announcers talked about how classy the players were by introducing themselves before the game - but they unraveled quickly and easily.

njjayhawk, kesmithstl1, ralster (really??) - your arguments have little merit. Marcus was 100% wrong, and is lucky he won't be suspended another game. TRob likely should have been tossed in the first half for throwing the mosquito to the floor. You can stand up to bullying, but when you're the bully your B.S. arguments make you look less intelligent than you are. Keegan was reporting on what we all saw and HCBS confirmed: the team's reaction was unacceptable.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 10 months ago

Keegan, normally I agree with a lot of what you say (even when others don't). However, this time, I think you are the one letting your emotions, and/or personal vendetta, in front of your writing. Yeah Marcus was wrong, but you have to remember that every other team KU will play this year will look at this game and see how KU responded. If KU continued to get pushed around/bullied, and didn't do anything about it, you can bet every other team would do the same.

I like this type of game. Remember how the Bulls had to change their style of play when they played the Pistons and Knicks? You have to do that. You can't play the same way every game. Sooner or later, you have to say enough is enough and fight back. KU still won by 15, although it wasn't that close.

Overall, you are a good reporter, who just showed some immaturity on your part.

haydenhawkco 10 years, 10 months ago

This isn't a game on the play ground. The NCAA has always spoken loudly and carried a big stick on cheap shots and fighting. If anything, future KU opponents will see this as a way to force KU into a fight and inevitably an injection. Last night exposed a major weakness - composure.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 10 months ago

respectfully disagree! I know the NCAA doesn't support the elbows, nor should they! You also have to show you won't be punked. Like it or not, that is how the game is played!

As far as the composure, or lack there of, I think Marcus is the only one who screwed up. Brady, T-Rob, etc... did nothing wrong in my mind!

John Randall 10 years, 10 months ago

That "injection" you speak about – would it be a pain-killer or a tranquilizer?

kcglowboy 10 years, 10 months ago

You're right about one thing: every other team KU plays this year WILL look at this game and will see how we responded. But you think they'll see that we "stood up" to the dirty play. I disagree. I think what they'll be seeing is that we can be baited into losing our tempers, to the point of getting ejected.

NebraskaJayhawk 10 years, 10 months ago

I think Self knows that it's okay to be "chippy" (what a dumb word). I'm sure he had his chippyness back in the day at OSU. The problem was the obviousness of the cheapshot. There's stuff that goes on in games all the time. Who knows what caused Marcus to do what he did. I'm not condoning it, but all I'm saying (and agreeing with a couple of other posters) is that it's okay to play with some chippyness.

NebraskaJayhawk 10 years, 10 months ago

I meant I wasn't condoning the shot to the head.

justanotherfan 10 years, 10 months ago

Cal wanted the game chippy because they didn't have the players to stay with KU. Marcus has to realize that he can't be the one that retaliates. Ideally, the retaliator would be a guy like Mario Little, who we can afford to get tossed, but would still get the message across to the offending player.

Different guys have different roles. Marcus has to know that his role is leading scorer, and that means that under no circumstances can he put himself in a position to get thrown out of a game. I'm sure that he will understand that very clearly at some point during Sunday morning's practice.

Clarence Haynes 10 years, 10 months ago

Lessons learned I hope by Marcus, TRob, Brady etc. Because they were outmatched from the start, Cal did a lot of provoking (eg "cutie" Gutie shoving TRob under the boards before TRob retaliated) , but that said, our guys need to be above that and demonstrate what they are made of by simply playing good offense and sound defense.

slowplay 10 years, 10 months ago

It doesn't hurt to get a little rough and tough at times. The only 2 plays I disagreed with were the Marcus elbow and Brady's cheap little ball swat. Other than that it was a great effort. Marcus has got to learn how to retaliate with his body and not his elbows. Hard bumps in the post, keep the elbows low, and fight hard for the loose balls. Montgomery's teams have always played this way, cheap shots trying to get the opponent off their game. It was their only chance at winning. Self said all the right things to the media but you could tell he liked the aggressiveness and the fact they didn't back down from the cheap stuff. This KU team is coming together. There will be more rough stuff before the season is over and they will respond appropriately.

Brad Boline 10 years, 10 months ago

What is it with Cal Athletics, trying to find cheap ways to win a game, Wasn't it their football team that faked injuries on Oregon? Marcus' ejection was the right call, but the tech on T-Rob was not, Gutierrez was the reason for the fight, he reminds me of Jason Sutherland at Missouri, a complete cheap shot artist. Cal made the game ugly, but the jayhawks need some composure, and believe me Self will do it, with some hard practices to come.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 10 months ago

good comparison with Sutherland. I remember him grabbing Haase's injured wrist when fighting through screens. Total d#@$ move.

Steve Kubler 10 years, 10 months ago

Begin Rant

There is a difference between playing tough and what went on last night. No you don't let yourself be pushed around but tossing elbows like Marcus did is just dumb. The only thing that shows is that you have no control. Yes every team we play will have seen that but instead of discouraging them from pushing Marcus around it will encourage them to provoke a repeat.

Keegan, with Self's agreement in case you did not notice, is pointing out a serious weakness that will be used against KU all season. In any competition the person(s) that lose self control are at a serious disadvantage. If Reed had not kept his head straight I hate to think about what the outcome could have been.

The worst part about this is so many people are blaming Cal for KU's actions. That is bull! Each player is responsible for their own actions and reactions. Letting the opponent get into your head is a loss. Someone earlier pointed out MJ's reaction to getting pissed. and he is correct. You step up your play and show the losers what it means to poke the big dog. Reed did this, Brady failed which was a disappointment as your 5th year senior 'glue guy' should know better.

After this game my guess on the next starting line up is Markief, Robinson, Relaford, Reed, Selby. Assuming Marcus is not suspended by the NCAA I think Self is going to punish him in some way. Taylor has to get his head straight and Brady, well not sure just what is going on with him.

End Rant

kesmithstl1 10 years, 10 months ago

Another respectful disagreement! KU did what they had to! Self has to say he doesn't approve for the cameras and writers. I'll bet you money he likes what he saw though (with the exception of the blatant elbow). Ralster is right. Self has been calling these guys soft numerous times this year. I don't know if he can say that anymore! I think this is a positive for KU moving forward.

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 10 months ago

Glad you mentioned the free throws because near the end of the first half we were only at 25%. And we were NOT the team getting to shoot technicals!

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 10 months ago

Okay that makes more sense, especially since Cal was at the line more than we were in that first half.

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 10 months ago

This all reminds me of the movie "The Untouchables" with Kevin Costner and Sean Connery. Connery (Malone) to Costner (Ness): "They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way".

Brandon Winkler 10 years, 10 months ago

I hardly ever comment, so when I do, its for good reason.

Keegan....stop writing.

patrick_e 10 years, 10 months ago

Nice column.

The arena last night seemed to be a third full of KU fans. If players can't keep their composure in a quasi road environment, how can we expect them to keep their cool in a true mad-house like what they will face in Columbia or Manhattan? Or any other Big 12 venue for that matter.

Big time lack of maturity.

patrick_e 10 years, 10 months ago

The Morris twins are juniors. Brady is a senior. These players should know where the line is and when not to cross it. Your 'hidden question' is something that would be topical if the players in question were freshmen. They're not.

You don't have to talk s**t or throw elbows to play 'tough.' What I saw last night was an exceptionally mentally soft team. Rather than boxing out a little harder, sliding their feet a little quicker, and finishing aggressively around the rim, said players (leaders, really) let the little jack-wagons from CAL get under their skin and affect their play. Extremely mentally soft.

Learning experience? Yes. It's just an experience that should have happened years ago for some of the players in question.

Robert Brock 10 years, 10 months ago

I think that Marcus falls far short of KU standards. That attitude is not the kind of attitude that you expect from a first-team All America player. Personally, I wouldn't mind having him sit out the next couple of games as a reminder...

Robert Brock 10 years, 10 months ago

Take your meds. I have been watching the Hawks since '57.

Jacobpaul81 10 years, 10 months ago

HCBS has done nothing but foster this immaturity among his players. He's been complaining about it all year, but when you turn the game over to an immature player for 2 years, the immature players that follow act the same ---- way. If the players are out of line and playing like immature babies (Which they were), it's the coaches fault for not properly leading them.

Benjamin Piehler 10 years, 10 months ago

what would u suggest HCBC do to make them them to instantly mature? paint a fence? these are tough kids from by and large rough neighborhoods; I agree with you that its out of hand but what can u do?

kureader 10 years, 10 months ago

I've been disappointed in some of Keegan's articles, but I don't understand the criticisms here. He reported the facts and suggested that KU needs to play under control, or a good team is going to take us down later in the season. He's right.

One thing's for sure. This KU team doesn't back down or give up. Hopefully, Self can channel their attitude and make it work for us in the future, not against us like it did last night. The elbow to the face by Marcus made KU look like the thugs.

Lindsey Buscher 10 years, 10 months ago

"Lack of composure in chippy game while still winning by 15 on the road vs. Cal shows KU basketball team’s immaturity and incredible talent"

There, FYH.

jayhawkintx73 10 years, 10 months ago

The maturity level isn't the issue here. The guard with the long hair, won't attempt the spelling, was getting into the grills. Cal talked alot, and I will tell this. That is why those kinds of players aren't invited to come to KU. What I saw last night is a guy that was getting under the skin, and who knows what he said(even if it was racist), which is what I'm thinking. Cal fans were on the boards at ESPN last night, and they were saying racist things against the KU players. Makes you wonder whose maturity we should be talking about here, KEEGAN!

Greg Lux 10 years, 10 months ago

3 or maybe 4 players on this team have a running mouth problem. You can probably guess them. The twins, T-Rob and TT. Although TT is the least of them all. Now its advanced to taking cheap shots at the opposing players .. I would suspend Marcus for one game and get his attention quickly. I know we need him but right is right and wrong is what Marcus did weds night. Theres an old adage " Play with your head and not your mouth" we need to learn that and learn it quickly lest this team lose its chemistry. I wish this was the first time for the twins but its been going on all season. Marcus especially taking cheap shots as he comes into the post and its Wrong. HCBS has seen it and so have the twins so its time for it to stop. I hope they learn quickly. I really do.

Rock Chalk

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 10 months ago

You're moving with your auntie and uncle in bel air.

rockchalk80 10 years, 10 months ago

LOL... The 'Hawks didn't handle it well... but no question that Montgomery coached his team to test the Jayhawks... after all, what options did he have?

Good test---handled poorly, but better now than during conference play or NCAAT... I would bet that Scott Drew tries it as well.

Alan Mills 10 years, 10 months ago

JHWK got it right. With TRob in the first half and with Marcus, Cal pushed buttons, and the Jayhawks looked liked the spoiled kid who tries to retaliate, knowing his dad can afford a better attorney. It was nice to see us react tougher during the scrum. But, then, as if we had to be the spoiled kid again, you get to see Morningstar act like a total baby. Very disappointing. We simply are not tough, with the exception of Selby and Reed.

On a happier note, wouldn't it be fun to play with Selby and Reed? Reed is such a competitor. Wish he could shoot it better. Selby is the player. Seems like every team we play has a kid who can flat out shoot it. Finally, we have a player like that. How nice is that?

Markieff gets better and better all the time. Still, I wish the twins had a new rule on 3-pointers: for every time you dunk over an opponent you can attempt one 3. We do not need them wasting possessions jacking up 3s. We need them to toughen up inside. Too much finesse. But, as Coach Self points out, they aren't very tough. Do you think Marcus is still on those Wooden Award watch lists? Ha!

Releford disappoints. Wasn't he some sort of scoring machine in high school? Hard to believe he's forgotten how to put the ball in the basket. Still, I like seeing him on the court. He plays hard. Morningstar is probably the most disappointing player this year (can't count Withey, since he doesn't even see the floor - Juenemann got in last night). Morningstar can't score, and lately he can't guard anyone. Back in the day, we would call him "toast".

Sure love watching Selby and Reed. I just wish the rest of the team could catch-up with them!

waywardJay 10 years, 10 months ago

The Question is, when does the game start policing itself.

Clearly no one on that team was stopping guitterrez from being a total slimeball. Montgomery wasn't going to diavow his only hope for winning this game because it proves for better decorum. This is not a Pete Newell team anymore. This is why Doc Sadler will fail at Nebraska,.

Those who lack talent and hold tight to decorum will be thrown under the bus by ADs and Lunatic Fans.... Ahem Turner Gill.

When Decorum fails, it is the job of the official to clean up decorum. When The Officials are of lack luster will to maintain decorum, then it becomes the COaches Job.... When the Coahes pleas fall on deaf ears...... You have either the players or fans in attendance. COnsidering the inherent dangers of fans emntering play.... Ahem TOm gamboa.... It then becomes the players decisions, to act out and get in trouble... or to continue and potential be injured.....

Not many Defend Marcus' position, but what would you have him do ?

Clearly Montgomery wasn't going to clean up the game. The Officials were that interested in making sure the game was clean. Bill's pleas were falling on deaf ears. The fans ( on both sides ) were invested already in seeing this become a blood bath.

When is Marcus allowed to Snap in defense of himself and his teammates ? How much is he supposed to take before he goes all Die hard on them ?

In closing.....

Ho ho ho. Now, I have a Marcus Morris. - Alan Rickman.

Jason Hines 10 years, 10 months ago

This may be apples and oranges, and this is an extreme big picture, but someone needs to stop what has been going on. Lew Perkins, ticket scandal and now we get watch this crap out of our players? So the other team instigated it?

Hey, Alumni organization, stop sending me these envelopes until you can get your own crap in order. You embarrass me.

actorman 10 years, 10 months ago

There's no question that Marcus deserved to be tossed for what he did, and he certainly shouldn't have gone that far. But I actually thought what Brady did was in a lot of ways worse. The action had stopped, the guy was just standing there holding the ball, and Brady slapped it out of his hand, getting a completely unnecessary technical. Although Marcus shouldn't have reacted the way he did, it least it was in the heat of the moment. But for Brady, who's the oldest guy on the team, to do such a bush-league move and get a technical like that, made me embarrassed to be a KU fan. It was just stupid and classless. And I was actually surprised that Self put him back in later. I thought it would have been appropriate to tell him he was done for the night.

crimsonwithblue22 10 years, 10 months ago

I too was surprised and disappointed he was put back in after that knucklehead technical. It's not like we needed him to assure the win. Certainly after watching Self's reaction I thought he was done.

Eurekahwk 10 years, 10 months ago

I couldn't disagree more with the assertion that this team lacks composure. The fact that we won the game on the road after our leading scorer left proves the opposite. Face it Hawk fans, this team since Roy left eats its steak and doesn't apologize for how it gets it. Bill Self brought that mentality. We don't blame refs or tough play when the game is on the line. We get tougher. I know a certain team back east that is having a toughness problem right now.

Jason Hines 10 years, 10 months ago

Hey, I like Bill Self, even though he recruits one year players, but does that team back east have a ticket scandal, AD issues and a discipline problem?

waywardJay 10 years, 10 months ago

CAn you be blamed for your bosses actions ?

You can bring up the ticket scandal and the AD problems, but really what does that have to do with Bill Self. Nothing.

Discipline problem, maybe. Since 2008, we've had run-ins with the football team, many dui's a recruit that received impermissable benefits before he came to Kansas, then the whole Mario little thing.

Jason Hines 10 years, 9 months ago

I think your last paragraph speaks volumes to my point. If Marcus plays on the 29th, Is this systemic? It at least answers my question.

All I am asking is that my University walks the same line most of us do everyday....

kureader 10 years, 10 months ago

I would say this team doesn't lack toughness, but it DOES lack composure. Lack of composure is why we got a couple T's, and that's why Marcus missed most of the game. Taunting by the other team doesn't excuse Marcus. Against a better team, our lack of composure would have cost us the game.

I do think Self will get this thing under control. As you imply, we've had teams in the past with lots of composure and not enough toughness. That's certainly not a problem this year. I'm excited about the rest of our season.

waywardJay 10 years, 10 months ago

interesting point.

Tenaicty was a consistant amongst the Self coached Illinois teams. Hell Even tulsa was pretty scrappy under Bill.

KU_FanSince75 10 years, 10 months ago

The twins need to listen to Tyrel-----Tyrel speaks the truth. Tyrel is a smart BB player on the court-----the Twins (and Robinson maybe, too) can learn something from Tyrel. Tyrel says, "As the season goes along, I think we'll get better at that." I trust Tyrel and I trust HCBS. It will get better. End of discussion.

In regard to Keegan's article----- although, I can't stand Keegan most of the time, he makes a good point in his piece. Keep in mind though, he said the Jayhawks would lose at home to Valpo. I guess you can't always be perfect----like the KU Jayhawks, who are now 11-0.

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