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Kansas defeats Southern California, 70-68

  • 11 a.m., Dec. 18, 2010
  • Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, KS

Saturday, December 18, 2010

Sudden impact: Selby lives up to hype in debut

Kansas guard Josh Selby salutes the Allen Fieldhouse crowd as he leaves the court following the Jayhawks' 70-68 win over USC, Saturday, Dec. 18, 2010. Selby made his debut with 21 points and hit what proved to be the game winning shot.

Kansas guard Josh Selby salutes the Allen Fieldhouse crowd as he leaves the court following the Jayhawks' 70-68 win over USC, Saturday, Dec. 18, 2010. Selby made his debut with 21 points and hit what proved to be the game winning shot.

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Kansas defeated USC, 70-68 on Saturday, Dec. 18, 2010 at Allen Fieldhouse. Freshman Josh Selby scored a game-high 21 points in his debut, including a three pointer with 24 seconds left in the game to give KU win.

Josh “Showtime” Selby gazed into the lower-level, southwest-corner bleachers of Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas University’s 6-foot-2 freshman combo guard was looking for a loved one after draining his dramatic, game-winning three-pointer with 26 seconds left in Saturday’s spine-tingling 70-68 victory over Southern California.

“I blew my mom a kiss,” Selby said of Maeshon Witherspoon, who was seated next to a party of nine family members and friends who’d made the 18-hour drive from Baltimore — battling a snowstorm in Ohio on the way — for Selby’s made-for-Hollywood KU debut.

Mama was too busy wildly cheering Selby’s fifth three-pointer in eight tries, which erased a 68-66 deficit, to return the gesture.

“I was a little nervous,” Witherspoon said of Josh letting it fly after accepting a pass from Marcus Morris. Earlier in the same possession, Morris air-balled a 12-footer into the hands of brother Markieff, who quickly returned the ball to Marcus.

“When it went in, I was like, ‘Oh yes!” she added.

Selby — he came off the bench to a thunderous ovation at the 15:53 mark of the first half and knocked down a pair of threes on his first two shot attempts — showed guts in taking the shot most responsible for keeping KU’s school-record homecourt win streak alive at 65.

“It’s confidence. I hit a lot of big shots in my career. I’ve been there before,” said Selby, who told reporters he once hit 10 three-pointers in a game at Baltimore’s Lake Clifton High.

Rivals.com’s No. 1-rated prospect in the recruiting Class of 2010 was well positioned deep off the wing to accept the feed from Marcus Morris.

“I didn’t think he was going to shoot an airball. I thought Marcus was going to make it and get an ‘and-one,’” Selby said. “When Kieff got the offensive rebound, I gave ‘Mook’ (Marcus) a little look. He threw it to me. I fake-passed to Tyshawn (Taylor, seven points, six turnovers) because I knew the defender was going to jump. I just let it go and it went in.”

At that point, “I wanted to get to my teammates in the locker room. I wanted the game to be over with after that shot,” Selby said.

The game was far from over. Brady Morningstar’s aggressive defense on an inbounds pass play resulted in Jio Fontan stepping out of bounds with :05 left, with KU still up by one.

Tyrel Reed, who was fouled on the ensuing inbounds, made one free throw, then missed a second at :04.

No matter.

KU — which led by as many as 14 in the first half and by 11 at halftime — survived a halfcourt heave from Maurice Jones that sailed off the mark at the buzzer.

That Jones miss assured a storybook debut for Selby, who finished with 21 points, most by a KU freshman since Xavier Henry’s 27 against Hofstra last season.

“He bailed us out. He saved us,” said KU coach Bill Self, quite quotable after KU’s 10th win of the season against no losses. USC fell to 6-5. “Of course it’s nice to have a guy who wants it in that position. We found out he’s that kind of guy for us. He’s just a street-tough kid. He likes this stage. I think he’s a gamer.”

Self wasn’t surprised Selby was willing to try a game-winning three.

“That’s Sherron Jr. right there,” Self said, comparing Selby to former KU guard/bulldog Sherron Collins. “There’s no way he was passing up that last one. That ball was going up.

“I was walking in (locker room) with Marcus. “(I said), ‘Say what you want, that dude has got ... (it’s a word) similar to courage or guts,’” Self added with a laugh. “You can’t deny that.”

Self said it’s fitting Selby emerged as hero. He’s had a tough go of it, sitting out nine games as penalty for accepting benefits from Carmelo Anthony’s business manager, who happens also to be a family friend.

“This moment for here makes the last six months worthwhile. I think that’s pretty cool,” Self said. “First game back ... national stage ... national TV ... where he is going to be the talk of the country ... I’m really happy for Josh and his mother because they have made a lot of sacrifices to make sure this day occurred.”

Witherspoon was a wreck before the game.

“Crying, nervous, wondering if he was going to fit in with the team, because the team has been playing so well. If we didn’t get the ‘W,’ I didn’t want him to be blamed for it and all the phone calls and things like that,” she said.

Selby seemed calm at a family dinner Friday night.

“If he was nervous, he didn’t show us,” Witherspoon said, noting she sent him one text Saturday.

“I told him his grandmother (back in Baltimore) says she loves you and to pray before the game. That was it.”

Josh says those words and those of his KU teammates kept him calm.

“The night before, my teammates said, ‘Do what you do, and you’ll fit right in. Don’t worry about trying to do too much.’ When they said that, I was relaxed,” Selby said.

“I think it is a relief,” he conceded after hitting five of 11 shots overall, with five rebounds, four turnovers and one assist in 27 minutes. “Now I think my teammates trust me more, and the coaches trust me more.”

After saluting adoring fans as he exited the court — Witherspoon called it “Josh’s sanctuary” — through the northwest tunnel following a postgame interview with ESPN, Selby conducted more interviews, then signed autographs and posed for pictures for fans, including a 2- or 3-year-old girl whom Selby held in his arms.

Quite a day. Quite a night ahead.

“We’ll eat some dinner and relax,” Witherspoon said of plans after the early 11 a.m. start. “Probably some more hugs and crying. He’s going to have to take some phone calls from back home. It’s a beautiful blessed day.”

KU will meet California, another Pac-10 team, at 10 p.m. Wednesday in Berkeley, Calif.

Comments

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

Thoughts on the game: - Pretty poor performance all around. Some of it can be chalked up to Josh Selby’s debut and Mario Little’s absence. Both were distractions and affected chemistry. Some of it can be chalked up to it being finals week and not having as much practice time this week. On the flip side, I imagine it was finals week for USC too, they were playing on the road at 9 A.M. their time, and they were playing with a new player in their line-up for the first time as well.

  • Was overall very pleased with Selby’s play for his first game. Clutch. However, not trying to take anything away from a solid debut, but was his game just a little bit too much like Xavier’s? We didn’t see any spectacular drives to the hoop. He didn’t create much for his teammates. Basically he was knocking down shots from behind the arc. Just saying I was expecting a little more, and it’s something to keep an eye on in the coming weeks.

  • The starting line-up puzzled me, because Travis really hasn’t shown me much of late, either to warrant playing in the post or more minutes in general. Did Markieff do something this week to warrant a demotion to the bench? The only thing I can possibly figure out is that with Little unavailable and therefore altering the big man rotation (although not a true big, that is the role he was primarily playing) Self was trying to make sure he had his bigs at the end of the game and sacrificed a little of Markieff’s playing time at the beginning. I thought not having both the Twins start the game clearly affected their play, as well as chemistry in general. I think the fact that Selby started the second half and was on the floor at the end of the game signals his days of coming off the bench are over.

  • Saw both the good and the bad from Brady. He had two huge offensive rebounds, but earlier in the game gave up back to back 3 point plays – the first where he completely lost his man and the guy nailed a trey, and on the next possession he was in bad position again, road his man down the lane, fouled the guy, +1. The Brady Brigade will point to his positives in staunch defense of him. The haters will remember the horrible defense on the aforementioned possessions (as well as many other instances). So I guess just saying it will be the same old song and dance in the comments.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

Don't put "as well as many other instances", unless you want to name them. Coach Self said he had a good defensive game. I'll take his word over anybody else's. After all, his is the only word that counts.

The announcers said the Morris benching was due to poor energy level in practice, according to Self.

I was thinking the same thing about Selby. But I know he is more of a slasher. Hope he starts showing it.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

My apologies to not have the ability recount every possession during the game and point it out to you. Clearly you are a member of the Brady Brigade, and have proved my point that these are the kind of discussions that will keep happening on the message boards from now until Brady's eligibility runs out. And agreed that Self's word is the only one that counts, but apparently it's not the only one you care about. If it was, you wouldn't be debating what my word said about how I saw the game.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

The Brady Brigade?? You have no ground to stand on since the biggest "member" of our "brigade" is Bill Self. Get a grip man, you'll be ok. I am however a huge member of the Jayhawk "brigade." I would not post about how you saw they game if you were correct. According to Bill Self you are wrong and I know what game he was watching.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Dr_Roach: Clearly, you need to get a handle on your Brady love.

Second, despite the fact that we have the best coach in the nation, you need to understand that Coach Self is not God, is not always right, and may, from time to time, spin things in a manner so as to benefit his team. Just a thought.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

Or wait, you are right, it's a vast "Brady Brigade conspiracy" that goes all the way up to the head coach who play's Brady way to much in order to motivate the rest of the team as some sort of pseudo-psychology ploy that only he is hip to.

Chill out man.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Seriously, you don't think coaches do that? You obviously have never coached, or played at any high level of sports.

There are better arguments than simply "Because God .. er, coach Self .. said so."

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

Trust me, many people are aware that Bill Self is the leader of the Brady Morningstar fan club. It is why Brady is so heavily criticized, because you can go to probably any article over the past year where Brady's name gets brought up in the comments and there are large numbers of fans who do not trust that Coach Self is playing Brady based on performance. That's his "boy" as posters often refer to it, that when he makes a mistake he is left in the game to make 10 more, but when Tyshawn made a mistake last year or EJ and Travis this year they are immediately relegated to the bench. I'm a Jayhawk fan all of the time, and a supporter of Coach Self when he deserves it. The two are not the same, and being a fan means you are allowed to question the decisions of the coach not just say "well Coach Self says...". That is not being a fan of the University of Kansas. That is being a sheep and allowing Coach Self to be your shepherd. Also, saying "according to Bill Self..." is basically having no argument at all, or at least no opinion of your own to throw out, as if you had to listen to the Bill Self press conference posted on this site before deciding who played well and who didn't (which brings you back to the sheep).

(by the way, thanks for again proving my point by saying you would not post about how I saw the game if it was "correct". Once again admitting that Coach Self's word is not the only one you care about, as apparently you care about if everyone agrees with you or not).

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

icthawkfan316: See above conspiracy, I just uncovered it and YES you are right.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

Well of course I trust you, who wouldn't?..duh.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

It is common knowledge in my line of work that whenever a person leads with a qualifying word or phrase, such as "trust me", they are lying over 70% of the time. This is not what I think, it is a proven fact. So more than likely your a liar.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

That's pretty funny, pretending you have a "line of work". You're obviously some punk high school kid. If you were educated in any manner at all, you would not repeatedly make the "your right" mistake, like you are referring to your right hand, or it's coming up on your right. I think what you've been meaning to say is "you're"..."you're right". "You're a liar".

And if you don't believe me, go back and check. The articles are all on here; look through the comments and see for yourself before making the ridiculous statement that I'm more than likely lying about many fans on plenty of articles calling into question Brady's playing time and Self's decisions to play him as much as he does. Even those that are Brady's supporters know that this is an almost daily debate. Or don't check, and keep making yourself look foolish. Either way is fun for me :-)

KUlancer 8 years, 4 months ago

Looks like this was over an hour of wasted life you guys never be able to get back. Everyone calm down; the team will improve and we'll be absolutely fine.

Rock Chalk

Sam Brockert 8 years, 4 months ago

How many national championships have you won??? I think Self knows a little bit more than you about coaching and evaluating players, so forgive me for trusting his judgment rather than some internet poster who probably hasn't even played basketball since at least high school, if that.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

As I and other posters keep trying to say, we all agree that Coach Self is a great coach and in no way do I advocate knowing more than him. I have said as much multiple times on this very thread (of which I guess you conveniently ignored). However, can we all agree that Coach Self is not infallible? That he is not perfect? That he is not God? If you start with that premise, then you leave room for the possibility that he is prone to mistakes. Heck, if you trust his judgment so much, why not trust his word when he has admitted as much? That there are things he could have done different in the past. If you do not admit that he is human and prone to getting things wrong, then you must view him as a God, and thus have bigger issues than some fans on a message board.

And if we were all to follow blindly and simply say that whatever Self says and does is right beyond any doubt, what's the point of having a message board? Why did you come on here if not to express an opinion? Is it not better to open your mind to the views and perspectives of others? You may not always agree, but maybe it could help you get a better understanding of the diversity of Jayhawk nation, and maybe your fellow man in general.

I don't always agree, but I recognize that we are all just passionate about our beloved Jayhawks and are expressing what we feel is best for the team. And for those that treat their fellow Jayhawk fans with respect rather than condescending remarks, I am always willing to listen and consider their point of view. However, if you meet every opinion not in-line with your own views with ridicule and insults, well then most of us loyal fans simply tune you out.

tical523 8 years, 4 months ago

You can't criticize anything about KU basketball or Dr Roach will think you are against KU or Bill Self. I can't explain it but that is just how it is.

Mark Wooden 8 years, 4 months ago

My thoughts on that lost shot, Selby is the only one that takes that. Brady swings it to the corner and Reed drives it.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

It wasn't really an analysis, but thank you!

Matt Bowers 8 years, 4 months ago

Isn't it possible that Travis started over Kief to keep him out of foul trouble and to allow Travis to get into the flow of the game?

Defense was the biggest problem today, second free throws, and third was quick shots. Glad we won and believe that practice over the Christmas break will do this team a tremendous amount of good.

Great debut Josh.

Rock Chalk

Greg Lux 8 years, 4 months ago

It never ceases to amaze me with some posters on this board .. The kid is playing his first college game under tremendous pressure and fan expectations . He scores 21 points and the game winning shot and its still NOT enough. WOW.

He is a freshman with a wealth of talent and I am sure he will be a lot better as time goes on, but in my opinion he was awful darn good for his first game under the pressure he had put upon him. Give the KID a break he was awesome in my opinion.

Rock Chalk

Chad Hallack 8 years, 4 months ago

I think it had a lot more to with the twins forcing things offensively and TT proving once again that he's not a point guard than it had to do with anything else.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

  • Jeff Withey continues to display he cannot positively contribute to this team. Self was on record as saying that playing against bigger teams like USC that Withey would become “more valuable”. The stat line for his 3 minutes of play – 2 boards and a block – is extremely misleading. He looked as lost as ever. This is going to be a huge problem for us assuming Mario Little will not be returning to the team.

  • Similarly, while not playing poorly, EJ was pretty much invisible. Once Selby is starting EJ may see more minutes as the primary back-up point guard, but it is not looking good for him being a significant factor in the normal rotation of players. His advocates cannot keep using the “how can he be expected to play well getting so few minutes?” excuse. It's either that or some other comment used to justify wanting to see him playing more minutes - his athleticism, speed, we should use him more so we could press more, we should use him more so we could run more, etc. He has had opportunities and has not capitalized. His defense continues to be lacking, and he has yet to show the ability to effectively run the offense. Everything else is moot until he improves in those areas. Basically both him and Travis Releford look like all-Americans on the offensive end in the open floor. On defense they are both liabilities, and in half-court sets the ball sticks when they are in the game.

  • Other recurring areas of concern popped up in this game, namely poor passing and free throw shooting. However, I saw some improvement in the free throw shooting.

  • Listening to Bob Knight was brutal. Luckily I was watching the game with friends and wasn't focused on his commentary the whole game, but when I did tune him in I was wishing I could tune him out. It was no big surprise that he continued to not know who was on the court, confusing Reed and Morningstar at one point.

Anyway, I know looking at the points I made one might think we lost by 15 points. Very happy with the win and it was an awesome way for Josh Selby to begin his Kansas career. But looking at the game just on its merits and taking the Selby story lines out of the equation, this was definitely one of the poorer played games of the season and we were lucky to keep the home winning streak alive.

Hank Cross 8 years, 4 months ago

A couple of points about Travis. First, yes his stat line was pretty anemic, but how much is caused by tenativeness by being afraid to make a mistake which will cause an immediate extended benching? In the first half, when his man cherry picked that basket, Travis was immediately benched even though had KU got the rebound - it would've been a mismatch on offense. In the second half when he missed his only 3 point attempt in the whole game, he was taken out at the next dead ball.

That leads to my second point, Travis had only 2 FGA the whole game, so it's not as though he's bogging down the offense.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

If you watch the games without bias towards any players, Travis is one of the worst perimeter defenders in the half-court sets, and that is why he isn't seeing more time. Self has said with his length, quickness, and athleticism he should be a lock-down defender, but he is horrible at moving through screens and routinely loses his man in general. Self could live with the missed 3 pointers, but he has to earn his minutes on the defensive end and really there shouldn't be any "tentativeness" there. Even players of average athletic ability can become good defenders with focus, an understanding of the game, and busting it, and right now he's missing something in one of those departments. This is his third season now under Coach Self so really the time for excuses for him is wearing thin.

As for not bogging down the offense, taking 2 field goals has nothing to do with how effective he is. You hear Bill Self talk all the time about the ball sticking? When Travis (and EJ) are in the games that's something that happens more far more frequently. They are not making the right pass at the right time.

And just to maybe make a point, if having a place in the starting line-up on a day when Selby made his debut didn't do enough to boost his confidence and shake some of that tentativeness, not sure what will.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

Your are so darn right..how do you do it?

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

Yeah, I'm really bummed too, that Withey didn't score 8 pts in his whopping 3 minutes of playing time. So glad that, with the loss of Mario, Self decided to go even smaller at the 4. Especially since any big from a major conference (no matter how good) continues to go through our interior D like a hot knife through butter. But don't take a chance Bill. Don't leave your 7 footer in there for 8-10 minutes to let him get into the flow of the game. Play it safe, Coach (gutless wonder). Do you really expect a 7 footer to be a "fast twitch" player and provide a spark off the bench?

I'll agree on Brady. He made a couple good defensive plays and he does have quick hands, (which sometimes serve him well, blocking a shot from behind when he gets beat off the dribble, haha) but as I watched him closely, he gave up at least ten points, six on two consecutive plays, in the second half alone (I wasn't watching that closely in the first half). Add to that putting our bigs in jeopardy of fouling as he ends up behind his man who's driving to the bucket and I gotta say, he's a net defensive liability. Don't tell that to Bill though. As far as he's concerned, that guy stepping out of bounds with 5 seconds left was all Brady.

Gotta disagree on Bob Knight. I learn more about basketball listening to him than any other commentator in the game. So what if a guy who flies in for one game (and doesn't log on to KUSports.com every day) gets a few names wrong.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

This is the problem with every poster who wants to defend EJ, or Travis, or Withey. They all say "if he'd only be playing more...", as if it's not possible that there's a really good reason they're not (like Withey declaring that he didn't know the playbook despite being with the team for over a year when he made the comment. Is anyone sure he knows the playbook now? Because he sure doesn't look like he does). I'm not saying Coach Self is always right in the way he handles things, but seems like Cole Aldrich had a pretty fast switch as a freshman against the National player of the year in the final four a couple of years ago, so that's one 7-footer with less experience than Withey that could do it. But you're right, he should keep playing the players who look awful, who also let quality big men go through them like butter, but who offer almost nothing on the offensive end and get almost every rebound slapped out of their hands bringing it down to their knees. Really?

And I'll grant you that Bob Knight knows a few things, but he repeats the same one or two coaching tips for the whole 40 minutes (yes, we get it. There's no reason to foul a jump shooter. Great insight!). Also, I can't remember any of the other members of the national media who have been commentators for our games getting the names wrong (every game), and I'm sure they all fly in and for the one game and don't spend every day on this website. Just saying.

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

Well I guess we'll just have to disagree on Withey. He didn't get EVERY rebound, but he got 2 and a block in 3 minutes. I'll stay in Withey's corner, just as I did Tyshawn against his detractors last year.

A quick check of his stats: 10 games @ 6.6 min/game, shooting 50%, 12 blocks, 23 rebounds. I'll take that. Like I've said before, anytime he's played more than 8 m, even last year, he's had a good line. With us being short on bigs, I just don't see how it hurts to have him in the game 10-15 minutes. I may be wrong, but I haven't seen him be a defensive liability in any games. At least not any worse than any of our other bigs, who like I said, defend like butter against hot knives.

Bob Knight? Well, he's a commentator. That's what they're paying him to do--comment on what happens on the court. If players continue to foul jump shooters (Brady?), what's he supposed to say.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

Well here's where I come out on Withey as of today - we may have to go through some growing pains to make him more servicable. With Little's absence we will have to have a 4th big to sub in. You're right that Self can't use Releford there. He was able to get away with it with Little - playing a 3 at the 4 - but Releford has a whole different set of skills and abilities than Little.

Back to Withey - I don't care that he didn't score, and he may have some favorable stat lines. If he doesn't score that's fine with me. But just watching him play he doesn't pass the eyeball test, at least not my eyeball. He looks lost. He looks like he's never in the right spot. His footwork looks bad. His rebounding position looks bad. So while he may produce a good stat line every now and then, that is less important to me. Because you can be in bad rebounding position and the shot can take an awkward bounce and you end up with the rebound anyway. It's kind of like how Bill Self says a shot is a good shot when it leaves the hand, regardless of whether it goes in or not (and for the record, he says this, but sometimes it doesn't look like he's coaching while operating under that belief - i.e. yanking players for missing a shot that was a good shot). So stats can be misleading, but playing the right way, by having good on-court habits, eventually good things will happen for you. If you play with poor fundamentals it will catch up to you, especially against better competition.

I will acknowledge that you have always been one of the more patient fans regarding Tyshawn, and Withey may turn out to be a viable option. And I agree that I would rather see Withey playing in the post where he belongs and working to improve than seeing 4 guard line-ups with Travis in there trying to defend the post.

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

Well, I guess we've settled it then, haha. Put Withey in, suffer some growing pains early in the season, and end up with a 7 footer you can put in there in March without having to worry about him blowing it.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

1st, USC plays very good defense which contributed to a somewhat lackluster performance. 2nd, I don't see Withy being a problem, I think the twins and Robinson will be able to hold the fort down in the paint.3rd, I too am concerned with the ft shooting, these things tend to linger and could kill us in the end. I am not so concerned about the passing, which is much easier to correct. 4th, I agree on EJ and coach Knight.

JHWK 8 years, 4 months ago

If passing is so much easier to correct, why is it that game 11 is this week and we still do it poorly? Coach Self decided not to coach on it, and is 'OK' with the turnovers? Uh......no. You're wrong.

I will agree with another poster who said they learn more from Coach Knight than any other announcer. Congratulations to us - we know the KU players better. Congratulations to him - he knows the game better than we do, or ever will.

USC's defense did not get them back in the game. Our lack of defense did. 'Somewhat lackluster' was on the other end of the floor, not the offense, which has sputtered all month long.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

We are among the leader's in the nation in assists, so once in a while a pass does find it's mark.

Steve Corder 8 years, 4 months ago

Some times Knight sounds like an old man. He seems to talk way too often about old mentors who taught him coaching points. He knows BB but he has no sense of humor and I think (giving him a the benefit of a doubt) a slight bias against KU....or maybe I shouldn't give him such benefit.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

Say what you want about coach Knight but, if anything, he has a slight bias for KU.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Knight was in pretty good form yesterday; a lot of good insights and coaching stuff. I think he still wishes he was on the sidelines. He lets his view of what should be done creep in a bit. He's a dry humor guy. but I would have to say I have always found him to show a bit more bias for KU.

Ed Brown 8 years, 4 months ago

...um, did you know that Coach Knight IS an old man which is a goal many of us hope to achieve. I have sat through the same stories many times, just as immersed in the story as the story teller was. I did this because I could see the joy they had in telling the story and that was the magic we received in sharing a story so important that the excitement of telling it seemed to have outweighed the memory of who heard it before. Back in the "olden" days we called it respect for your elders. Then again, we also used yes sir and no sir and never corrected older people for those little mistakes they make just because they are old. I guess today we call that tolerance.

melrank 8 years, 4 months ago

I agree with a lot of your points but I guess I need to watch what happens more closely with Releford on defense (or find the quote from Self critiquing his defense). The times he was in I thought he was an exceptional help defender and very strong hedging on ball screens up top and quick to return to his man.

What I've come to learn with Coach Self is that all of our guys have a role on the team and they need to excel at that role - whatever it might be. If you work outside your role you aren't going to get much time. Far be it for me to understand all of the nuances that Coach uses to evaluate a player's role and whether or not they are playing their role well.

Michael Auchard 8 years, 4 months ago

'“That’s Sherron Jr. right there,” Self said, comparing Selby to former KU guard/bulldog Sherron Collins.'

I like how even journalists refer to him as a guard/bulldog in print now. Like Sherron has somehow created a new position on the floor or something. Funny stuff.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

"Mind Jpegs After Selby Let'em Fly:"

~KU looked and played exactly like a third ranked team that had lost one of its seniors and significant supporting players, and added a freshman that was green lighted to shoot anywhere, anytime, and took 11 shots including 8 treys, and that was playing a hard nosed Kevin O'Neill team rebuilding.

~KU started out trying to play as it had successfully for 9 games, but were apparently intentionally undermined in trying to do so by Coach Self, who calculatedly started one big, Marcus, sat Kieff, and started Releford at the 4, to completely break-up the team's legacy rhythm. Without Kieff, nothing much happened for two minutes. Then Kieff entered and promptly could not score. Brady and Tyrel could not hit. Marcus was doubled and struggled early. Enter Selby, who waited a few trips and then began to pull the trigger repeatedly, when open. Suddenly the third ranked team in America was standing around delighted by the hot hand of their new freshman, but having no clue whatsoever about whether to play through the bigs, as usual, or let Selby keep launching nookular treys. Result? KU, the so far remarkable team with two units, one that plays slow and well together, and one that plays fast and okay together, became a team with two units lacking any offensive rhythmn at all. There was no change of pace with either unit. Both units passed it around until Selby felt open and triggered trifectas. Did I ay 8 attempts in all?

~Interestingly, but hardly surprisingly, the more Selby shot and made (a sparkling 5 of 8 from trey) the closer the game became. Why not surprisingly? Because, 3rd ranked KU, one of the highest percentage shooting teams in the country, ran into a hard nosed, smartly coached defensive bunch in USC, that denied KU its high percentage inside game at all costs, and basically said, "Hey, Josh, pull the trigger. Let's see if you can beat us." Josh did, but just barely.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

~A player with a hot hand like Selby is amazingly entertaining, but to play through him is to give up what has made KU so effective so far. The first team usually plays half court through the bigs for 8 minutes. It is a slog it out style of play that looks dull, and sometimes is a struggle, but when Self sticks with it, and brings TRob at 5 minutes, for some extra spark inside, and maybe one perimeter guy, the half court team usually walks off the floor at the 8 minute mark with a ten point lead, however dull it may have been in achievement. Why? Because KU is taking mostly high percentage shots inside, and a very few wide open trey looks, while the other team is being exposed to a sticky, help-oriented defense pushing them farther and farther outside for FGAs, or getting stuffed inside.

~With Selby in the USC game, there was no cohesive helping team defense that the first unit is noted for. In Selby's defense, there wasn't as much of that sticky, help-oriented defense even when Selby was out., when he was out. But it is going to be quite a while before he's able to make the first unit's help defense as good as it has been. But the guy can score like an offensive hit man, at least when he's hot from trey, This is no knock on Selby. He is a very good, plug and play on-ball defender, about as good as EJ, but without so many of EJ's mistakes. But he is only human and it is going to take a few games at D1 speed to learn how much help his teammates need, where and when. Till then, he's going to have to score quite a bit to make up for what we give up on defensive cohesiveness. To do that, he's going to have to take quite a few shots, say 10-11 a game. To do that, and score at a higher percentage than our inside game, he's going to have to either stay exceptionally hot from outside, or show a highly accurate, get-to-the-rim game that was not revealed yet today.

~My argument is very simple. Josh Selby should play with the second unit, because: a) he can make it better immediately by a considerable margin; and b) he probably cannot make the first unit a more efficient scoring machine than it already is. With Selby, KU shot remarkably badly.

~My argument will fall on deaf ears until Josh has an average shooting night from trey, an average shooting night getting to the rim, and KU loses to an average team.

~Outside Selby's hot trey hand, he played every bit the freshman: but one assist, no strips, and 4 TOs. This translates to: while he scored a lot on trifectation, he did almost none of the little things that help a Self team separate over the course of a game, even when nothing else is going well. He did not help the Disruption Statistic (strips to TOs).

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

No, no, no. Selby needs to start...he is super good as everyone will find out soon enough. Nice try though.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

i'm with the doctor on this...One thing you failed to mention was that Marcus was on the bench w/2 fouls when Josh took a few shots that he probably should not have. Also the team maintained the lead for the most part and how can you blame Josh for being a little over anxious in his first appearance? HCBS will correct JS in practice..plus we finally have someone not afraid to take the shot when it counts and also has the ability to create the shot instead of blindly driving into the basket and hoping for a foul. In only his first game, he earned the starting position.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

~Still, tonight, Josh is a wonderful, highly talented freshman who made his first trey, went on a tear of 5-8 from trey for the night, made a big trey near the end to put KU ahead, and played to the buzzer in an effort that found a way to win on a night, when KU shot very poorly from the field, except for Josh. Tonight, he deservedly basks in the glow of one of the most memorable first game efforts by a KU freshman I can recall. Congratulations to a fine player, a ferocious competitor, and a guy who apparently has a much better trey shot than I was lead to believe he had.

~But enough Josh.

~The Brady/Tyrel shooting slump continued. But Tyrel had 5 assists, 1 strip and ZERO turn overs. Brady had 1 assist, 3 strips and but 1 TO. These are the little things that keep them playing; that make them complements to impact players.

~EJ's 8 minutes produced goose eggs, and some good defense, but again, no contribution to the "little things" aka the Disruption Statistic.

~TRel in his start had a pretty good "little things" game with a 2 assists, 0 TOs and no serious bone heads.

~Kieff was very, very inefficient, but fought through it to be productive nonetheless.

~Marcus continued to labor under that double teams and the physical play, but he came up big a number of times as a team leader is supposed to do.

~Thomas Robinson showed his first signs of offensive smoothness, which signals another important step in his progress, but he also ran into a bunch of hard noses on USC that were unimpressed with his physique and let him know it. This was all to the good, because TRob has to learn to deal with the unintimidated to take his next step up the development ladder as a force inside.

~Withey remains a non-entity.

~Tyshawn had his first low concentration game with poor shooting and 6 TOs. Tyshawn's unproductive game , along with poor shooting non-sticky, reduced help defense, were major contributors to how close the game was.

~KU kicked their butts on the boards, and that largely saved them, along with Selby's shooting, from a bad shooting night and Tyshawn's troubles.

~Another way to put this is:if they needed to get better after CSU, then they need to rediscover their rhythm and how to score efficiently after USC.

~Good though Josh is, even he can not expect to average much more than 3 of 8 from trey most nights. And had he shot 3 of 8 against USC, KU would have lost. Therefore, it is clear something has to get better. USC was just an average team.

~Fortunately, there is every reason to think they can get better.

ajhk 8 years, 4 months ago

Wow! what a good assessment with Josh delegated to second team! I know it was only his first game and things seemed fast and he couldn't really see what was going on and his shots were just lucky...and good point that he will not get into the flow within just a few games. I mean you're right, he'll never be good from treyball land on the average and he'll never be able to see the game in a slower speed and attack the rim...What a freak'n joke. You are right that KU will never have a GOD that can do everything but this is as close as it gets bro. He is a freshman and has plenty to learn but also has a mindset like no other. He'll be able to adapt in what others think of in light years. He KNOWS the court is his and will see all that happens before it actually does before long. Some players do good and learn all that there is like a good coach, and there are some that are to be learned from, what they do is basketball. No, Selby was not perfect his first outing under all the lights and all the pressure, but just wait for him to feel comfortable and that killer instinct to manifest...no mercy and no glory in his and his teammates slaughter leaving nothing but bloody pulps and cold corpses lay...just another day... To what has made KU effective so far? Barely able to conquer an average opponent? We need killer instinct on the perimeter, not just the inside. With Taylor's ability to remain calm and handle(not this game) and complete players inside, I think Selby will grow into what KU needs as a last addition. There are few players who can conduct the court like an orchestra but Selby will be one of them.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

We agree Josh is a fine frosh with a personality and physical ability capable of dominating his team, as Sherron could. We agree he has lots of po. I love Sherron's game. I love Josh's game. We both agree we need great go-get-a-basket guy on the perimeter. Persons have gotten married with less than this in common. :-)

We even agree he is the kind of guy you could build a team around the Self built a team around Sherron for two years.

I bet we even agree Self has to at least consider junking the whole team framework developed so far and go back to a down the middle style to play through Josh, because:

a) Josh is so good; and

b) KU played so poorly trying to fit Josh in.

But we sharply disagree on:

1) how well he played outside his trey shooting; and

2) whether he can make the first unit as effective as it already has been without junking the current scheme.

Regards 1, if you take away Josh's hot trey shooting, what are you left with? EJ's good on ball defense, EJ's marginal off ball defense, and:

1 assist 0 strips 4 TOs

And EJ is on the second unit.

Regarding 2 above, KU scores 55% of the time inside most nights. Josh will not average 55%. So: good as he is, KU's offense cannot be as productive with him shooting as with the bigs shooting.

Surprise, surprise, for Josh to make the first unit as good, or better, Josh has to shoot less, make a high percentage, and do better at "the little things."

Josh has to play more like Tyrel and Brady and less like a superstar, or the team's scheme has to be altered to play through Josh, as we played through Sherron; i.e., we have to put the team on Josh's back, maximize his strengths, and mask his weaknesses by building a team around him to hide those weaknesses.

None of this is criticism of Josh. Even a moron can see he's got the goods and is something special.

This is entirely a strategic/tactical issue.

We saw the beginnings of the problem against CSU, when Self perhaps encouraged Tyrel to shoot 10 FGAs--mostly treys--in anticipation of getting the team a taste of what it would be like for a 2 to take 10-12 shots, as he planned Selby would.

KU's present offensive crisis started, when Tyrel took 10 FGAs vs. CSU and deteriorated further, when Josh took 11 vs. USC.

The first unit offensive scheme breaks down, when the first unit 2 takes ten or more shots. It stymies our inside game, which in turn prevents us from getting opponents' bigs fouled-up, which means we face better opposing team defense throughout a game, which makes us not be able to separate.

Self has 3 options:

a) Josh starts, shoots less and does the little things (like feeding the posts) more;

b) Josh subs with the second unit takes over games; or

c) Self retools and plays through Josh a la Sherron.

Regardless, something has to give to get better.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

USC is an average offensive team that plays very good defense. Overall they are an above average team with some wins to back that up. As the team continues to learn how to incorporate Selby they will become much better. By mid Jan. this will be accomplished and everyone will see for themselves how truly gifted Selby is. By than it should be KU's season to lose.

100 8 years, 4 months ago

If USC would have beat us they would have had about the same number of wins Kstate has.....

Seven.

Alohahawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Wow!! Fantastic results for a one legged Jayhawk to achieve such exceptional results. This meant as a visual interpretation of the above (Krug) picture of Selby leaving the floor after the USC game. What?? I did a double take when I first saw it.

Otherwise, happy for a win against a team Self characterized (pregame) as the best defensive team the Jayhawks would be playing to date. Not saying this is an excuse for the poor performance, just a part of the overall equation. Expect bigger roadblocks are ahead, and unless we improve in those areas in which the Hawks have proven deficient, the results aren't going to be pleasing. Hopefully, some of those problems can be rectified over the holiday break.

Happy for Selby, and the addition of his offensive abilities. Will "wait and see" as to his defensive improvement. However, the rest of the team shouldn't be caught watching a one man show. That's what happened during Durant's one year at Texas. His amazing abilities mesmerized his own teammates and ended up as a deterent to their team performance. (And, despite numerous 5 star one and doners, their coach hasn't exhibited much coaching ability. ex. Last year's team.)

Our first half team defense was pretty good. The second half sucked big time. (48 points, UGH!!!) Give credit to USC for their ability to adjust after halftime. Sometimes wish Self would alter the defense (man to man over to zone) after a time out, just to confuse the opposition. If the other team sets up a play during the timeout, they could be caught unaware, facing something different than they expected and the setup play wouldn't play out as expected. Then switch defense right back to man to man. But, perhaps a Jayhawk would get confused, too, and miss an assignment. Isn't armchair quarterbacking fun?

Nick Thompson 8 years, 4 months ago

Didn't even notice that! And he looks one-legged in both the pictures on this page haha

Milhawkee 8 years, 4 months ago

Yeah, I saw that too. It looks like the guy behind him is helping him off the court and he is saluting the fans before they go into the lockerroom to reattach his leg.

Thad Daugherty 8 years, 4 months ago

Pretty sloppy game all around. Our ball handling was terrible. For a point guard Josh had a hard time getting a handle on it. Shooting the ball he was butta! Too bad the rest of the team just wanted to stand around and watch him play. That guy playing TRob wasn't intimidated but he was also getting away with alot of cheap stuff under the basket.

baldwinjhawk 8 years, 4 months ago

HOLLYWOOD ENDING FOR SELBY! WOW!! It sucked that Selby came into the game at a commercial break. Wish I couldv'e been there to soak it up.. 39% FG shooting is aweful. But that jives with USC defense keeping us out of the paint. Maybe the reason Markeiff came off of the bench is because of those NBA 3's he keeps taking? Tyshawn was about as careless with the ball as you can get. I wish we had a true point guard. Bad game for the hawks.... Great game JOSH!

railer20 8 years, 4 months ago

Dude do you disagree with everyone's comments on here? I guess that PHD you have makes you right about everything, except, well everything you say is dumb....Our big men are terrible at defense and it's a good thing that we don't face many players like tubby Smith from UCLA or Williams from AZ because we would be in trouble.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

Well, we faced both of those and won, so until the beloved Jayhawks prove me wrong...well..you know the rest.

melrank 8 years, 4 months ago

162515 "hurting for big men" - I 100% agree with this comment. Not only are we short on bigs, we don't have a true 5 which continues to manifest itself in our inability to stop average post players from having career days against us. We have 3 awesome power forwards and that's it. Withey is nowhere close to being able to produce with significant minutes in crunch time. Hope he gets there, but he's not ready right now.

gchawk 8 years, 4 months ago

jhwkfan162515, you don't normally play zone when you're lacking height. I agree with the assessments of Withey and his progress. I just haven't seen what Coach saw in him when making the decision to recruit him, but I'll always give Coach the benefit of the doubt and trust his judgement, he obviously saw something.

SDSurferFan 8 years, 4 months ago

I may be the first to say this but we need to give Withey a break. Brady is a 7th year senior and is a 'graduate' student. He should be expected to play pretty close to flawless. The kid from SD hasn't played a full year of div 1 yet.....and yet we expect Cole type things out of him, just because he is 7 foot.

With that said, the criticism is accurate, just a little early to hammer on him,

Dyrk Dugan 8 years, 4 months ago

Selby was everything he was made up to be and more. he has one word to describe him.....SUREDNESS. of course it's not a real word....but he is SURE about what he is going to do.

there's no hesitation. even when he makes mistakes....(he had a few TOs) he's going full speed ahead. Just wait when he actually GETS it...and is in complete flow of the game and offense and defense. what a treat we have.

this is basically the beginning of a new team...and one that shouldn't be playing through Josh...but should allow Josh to lead the way. he can do it, and he's ready to start doing it...the quicker the better.

I expect Self to start him soon, and be at the point. and Tyshawn can still play point when he's not in there...and you can use Tyrel and EJ to spell minutes on the off guard.

the only things that kept us from a double digit victory, were two things....Tyshawn and Tyrel basically did nothing offensively....they still have to avg 20-22 points a game between..yesterday, 11. Reed's three point pct. is down about 10% from last year....he needs to get it going...just be SURE like #32 is.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

Better let her get it herself, we don't need Josh getting suspended for any more games for impermissible benefits.

KU_FanSince75 8 years, 4 months ago

Hey 316----With K-State choking on a fur ball down in Florida and with KU's performance yesterday against USC, any predictions on what could happen when the Hawks play the Wildkitties on Kansas Day?

Joe Ross 8 years, 4 months ago

I saw it as a toss-up prior to Selby. I think that by gameday Selby's role in the offense will be much more established than it was yesterday and his defense will improve, and therefore I see his presence as making the difference. Not "just" Selby, no! KU thrives on team play. The Morris twins, Tyshawn, and Robinson all need to be big vs. KSU with input from role players. However, Selby should neutralize Jacob Pullen offensively and that will be key. Prediction: KU.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

Um...I'll have to wait a bit longer before making predictions, given the shake-up of the Jayhawks this week and because I honestly haven't seen KSU play much this year, so I can't speak too intelligently about their team. I know Florida is supposed to be a good team this year returning all 5 starters from a tournament team last year, so a road game against the Gators was bound to be a tough game. I would imagine KU will win that game being at home. KSU has some strength inside, which is an area we have struggled with, so that will be a concern (and more so now that Little is indefinitely suspended). So I guess that's my non-answer for the moment - KU wins at home, but beyond that not really sure what the game might look like.

DCLawHawk 8 years, 4 months ago

I can see why Self compares Selby to Sherron, but that 3-pointer at the end reminded me a heckuva lot more of the one Jacque Vaughn drained his freshman year to beat Bob Knight's Indiana Hoosiers. I bet Coach Knight remembers, but unless I missed it he didn't mention it.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

I think coach Knight's memory is starting to fade. I saw an earlier post that said he had no sense of humor when, in fact, he is a very funny guy. It is sad but I truly think we are seeing his mental capacity shrink year by year in front of our very eyes. It would not surprise me to find that he has some type of cerebral event over the past couple years(2-3) that we are not hip to. And that's to bad because I for one have alway's found him to be a cool cat..

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

icthawkfan316: In case you forget to remind yourself; your right!

Steve Gantz 8 years, 4 months ago

I didn't see the game. I read "sudden impact" and I think, what impact, we beat a team at home that we probably should have beat by a bunch. What would the outcome have been without Selby? Was yesterday an adjustment?
Off to church, will have to wait til I'm home, and hopefully ya'll are home too!

Martin Rosenblum 8 years, 4 months ago

USC's big men would have had the brunt of the adjustment to have made had Selby not played. We would have gone to the comittee of Brady/Tyshawn/Tyrel and played more of a low post game that would had made for a totally different game with possibly similar outcome, small margin win.

This adds even more depth and diversity to our potential for the major part of the schedule that is upcoming. B12 coaches will have to spend more time now anticpating (or dreading) games with us.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

I'm posting this for all of the posters who didn't see my response to Dr. Roach (who may be Brady's younger brother based on his defense of him and attack of anyone who disagrees, as well as his immaturity in his responses):

Trust me, many people are aware that Bill Self is the leader of the Brady Morningstar fan club. It is why Brady is so heavily criticized, because you can go to probably any article over the past year where Brady's name gets brought up in the comments and there are large numbers of fans who do not trust that Coach Self is playing Brady based on performance. That's his "boy" as posters often refer to it, that when he makes a mistake he is left in the game to make 10 more, but when Tyshawn made a mistake last year or EJ and Travis this year they are immediately relegated to the bench. I'm a Jayhawk fan all of the time, and a supporter of Coach Self when he deserves it. The two are not the same, and being a fan means you are allowed to question the decisions of the coach not just say "well Coach Self says...". That is not being a fan of the University of Kansas. That is being a sheep and allowing Coach Self to be your shepherd. Also, saying "according to Bill Self..." is basically having no argument at all, or at least no opinion of your own to throw out, as if you had to listen to the Bill Self press conference posted on this site before deciding who played well and who didn't (which brings you back to the sheep).

Now for the record, I am not completely anti-Brady. He is a Jayhawk and I enjoy watching him play. I simply think he receives an unfair benefit of the doubt. I also think he is a polarizing figure among KU fans and for many he can either do no right or do no wrong. In my original post I pointed out this by saying he did some good things in the game and some bad things in the game...and by saying he did some bad things it obviously brought out a poster with one of the bigger man-crushes on the guy that I've seen in awhile.

melrank 8 years, 4 months ago

I beg to differ - there's man-crushes on EJ that rival anything for Brady :)

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

LOL - yeah I've seen those too. It is meant to read that the poster has one of the bigger Brady man-crushes that I've seen in awhile. Simply put, comparing it to other Brady love, not anyone else!

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

If not for your frenzy to get in your admittedly anti-Brady jabs, you would see that I'm not, in fact, defending Brady.

tical523 8 years, 4 months ago

I really believe that if EJ was playing relaxed and not worrying about making the slightest mistake he is just as good of a three point shooter than our best Tyrel Reed. Just an educated guess on his steady and consistent release. Not to mention he can play above the rim at a higher level than Tyshawn. Let the EJ love continue to poor baby!! LOL

tical523 8 years, 4 months ago

These are the players in my memory that have or had an extremely long leash with regards to mistakes or not having solid games but continue to play long minutes. Also, players who were polarizing as far as some fans thought they were the greatest and others thought they were given too much freedom when not performing up to par on any given game. JR Giddens (until he absolutely had to go), Brandon Rush, Sherron Collins, Xavier Henry, Tyshawn Taylor and Brady Morningstar. Brandon and Sherron brought a lot to each game so I give them the most slack but still, all of the players mentioned seem as if they can do no wrong in the eyes of coach. Just my opinion Dr. Roach, I am not a better coach than Bill and I know that.

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 4 months ago

I think Self sometimes decides that what each of these guys does well outweighs their downside. For example, the ball doesn't "stick" (Self's pet peeve) when Brady is in because he keeps the flow of the game going. Maybe he provides less in other areas, but the flow is more important to Self because it lets other players perform better. He admits Tyshawn is always going to turn the ball over, but usually (USC game excluded) makes up for it in other areas. He also knew from the start that he would only have X for one year, so why waste him on the bench for that one year? Sort of a use it or lose it deal. As for Giddens, I have mercifully blacked him out of my memory. I think we see the game as a whole and pick out individual plays to praise or criticize, while Self can break it down and see all the little pieces. And that where he makes his choices, weighing the good against the bad. As for Markeiff not starting, Piper (who spends a lot of time at practice, it seems), said Markeiff didn't start because his lack of energy at the practice before this game didn't earn him the start.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

"I am not completely anti-Brady."

LOL, so you do admit you are anti-Brady -- just not "completely."

This crap about Brady being "Self's boy" is mean-spirited and insulting to both coach and player.

Brady is a senior, and he's going to get the benefit of the doubt over the young guys until one of them beats him out for the position like X did last year. (Of course, last year when X went into a slump but wasn't benched, the posters here said HE was Self's boy. There's always plenty of armchair coaches and psychologists on these message boards who think they know more than the coach. Nothing new under the sun.)

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

Thank you for continuing to prove my point, that I can mention his positives and negatives and draw the ire of both his haters and his supporters. People will pick and choose what to appreciate or hate based on their own personal biases. (In fairness to you, I only re-posted part of what I'd written regarding Brady, so perhaps you did not see my praise of him as well).

To clarify, or more accurately to re-phrase, I'm not anti-any Jayhawk player. I in no way root for him to fail, to miss shots, to commit turnovers. That would be anti-Brady. I may be against how a certain player is used, as I am with Brady, which is my right as a fan. It is human nature to have opinions, it is sheepish nature to blindly follow or agree with every decision simply because the person leading or making the decisions knows more than you. I think almost without exception everyone would agree Bill Self knows more about basketball than all of us. However, so many posters think he is infallible, that he never makes mistakes, never mis-manages games or rosters, and that anyone questioning his methods or decisions is an idiot or a disloyal fan. Could I do a better job? Absolutely not. And I love having Bill Self as the coach of my beloved Jayhawks. However that doesn't mean I can't think for myself and form my own opinions, and anyone who posts "Bill Self says..." is pretty much wasting everyone's time. If you are posting, post your opinions please, don't simply regurgitate the position of the head coach.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

I don't regurgitate Self's opinions, and I've criticized him before. I have no fondness for Brady over any other player, and there's no reason to believe Self does either. He plays him more because no one has beaten him out for the position yet, not because he's "his boy." Condescending phrases like that suggest that you are, indeed, anti-Brady.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

Well perhaps if you had read what I wrote and not what your eyes want you to see you might sound like you know what you're talking about. Also, having some idea of the context of the original debate would help. I know it's easier to just jump in the middle of a dialogue, find some random quote, and distort it to make your own false assumptions.

I wasn't saying that I think Brady is "his boy". No. To get an idea of what's going on here, let me try and enlighten you as to context. I pointed out that Brady did some good things and some bad things, and that all through the comments we could expect to see the same debate we see almost every day - where the supporters only focus on the positives and the haters only focus on the negatives. I could not have been more right (although not like that was a difficult thing to deduce, that there would be talk of Brady following the game, because it happens almost daily). Then a poster comes in making false assumptions that I am Brady-bashing. I try telling him not at all, that I was simply saying expect to see a debate over Brady and his playing time, because again it is an almost daily discussion. I go onto say that simply saying "Coach Self says so..." is not the most valid argument, and that many posters here feel that Brady is one of Coach Self's favorites. The poster disagrees that anybody thinks that, and calls me a liar. This is where I use the one phrase you picked out of the entire discussion to try and paint me as anti-Brady. I tell the guy if he doesn't believe me to go back through the articles and read through the comments. "That's his 'boy' as posters often refer to it". And there it is...as posters often refer to it.

Hopefully you're all caught up now, although I fully expect given the way you handled yourself in this discussion that you will completely disregard any evidence that disproves your original opinion of me, instead clinging on to your misguided perceptions. I gave it a shot though :-)

mom_of_three 8 years, 4 months ago

man, do you like KU basketball? According to you, anyone that disagrees with your OPINIONS, can not think for himself.
Here is what I saw - our defense in the 2nd half stank....from everyone. We couldn't keep their big guys from scoring. And then their shooters began to hit. Our big guys suddently had trouble making bunnies, because their big boys were playing defense. KU looked out of sync in the 2nd half, probably because of all the changes. BUT the coaches will work out the kinks, as usual, and Selby will be a great addition to the rotation.
You keep saying Brady didn't play well, and at times he didn;t, but heck, no one really did in the 2nd half.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

It seems that 316's opinion of himself is all that really matter's.

"Mother's make the world go round."

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

As is the problem with the person I was having this debate with, you jumped in the middle without bothering to know the context. If you had read my original post (the first one on this thread), you'd see that I posted that Brady did some good things, and he did some bad things, and that we could expect to see the same old debate in the comments that we see everyday. Well, true to form Dr. Roach came in defending Brady, as if I was Brady bashing. I posted comments on other players as well, but they did not invoke the same polarizing response from the posters, and that was my original point. If you look through the rests of the comments on this thread you will see I am far from Brady's harshest critic.

Now as for your "According to you, anyone that disagrees with your opinions, can not think for himself" statement, that is false, and once again you are guilty of understanding the proper context. Plenty of people disagree with me, and that in fact shows that they ARE capable of thinking for themselves. The debate in question is that simply saying "because Coach Self says so, you're wrong" is not a perfect argument. My point here is that if you blindly believe that Coach Self is perfect, that he is God-like, then you are not thinking for yourself. Certainly what Coach Self does is right more often then not, and I am in no way implying that I know more than him. But if you have blind faith in everything he does...it's not having your own opinions. It's having HIS opinions.

Again, wish a few more of the posters would bother to learn a little bit about what they are commenting about before simply throwing baseless accusations around.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

Please read his original post. I agree Brady did some good things as well as some bad. You can say that about any player in any game. I do think that Brady does a lot for this team as every single person that does commentary, rather on ESPN or elsewhere, agree's. I listen/read and watch ton's of basketball and come to my own conclusions. And, yes, I think BS's opinion carries a lot of weight seeing as how it's his team. But I don't know, maybe 316 knows this team better than it's coach..that seems to be what your implying. That or the vast "Brady Brigade" conspiracy.lol. Also, keep attacking me personally, that's real classy.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

"Also, keep attacking me personally, that's real classy."

I do believe it was you who called me a liar first, and this after many passive-aggressive "you're right" comments on every one of my posts at one point. I don't have to attack you at all, you make yourself look like a clown without any help from me.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

I did not call you a liar. I said chances are you're a liar. Science backs it up. Odd that you have stopped using qualifying statements now that I pointed it out to you. You're making this too easy.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

You're right...it is easy (making you look like a clown, like I previously said). Plenty of the other posters have agreed with me. Also, please re-post where you use the phrase "qualifying statements". You never said that...I said that! Haha. Nice try :-)

P.S. You keep referencing the "Brady Brigade Conspiracy". For the record, the Brady Brigade is simply what I refer to the posters who believe he can do no wrong and defend him tooth and nail. Other posters refer to this group as "the Brady Bunch". You are the one who projected your own conspiracy theory issues out on this board. You will never once see me refer to anything as a "conspiracy". Again, thanks for playing, enjoy your consolation prize :-)

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

"But I don't know, maybe 316 knows this team better than it's coach..that seems to be what your implying" - posted by Dr. Roach at 5:29 p.m.

"I think almost without exception everyone would agree Bill Self knows more about basketball than all of us. However, so many posters think he is infallible, that he never makes mistakes, never mis-manages games or rosters, and that anyone questioning his methods or decisions is an idiot or a disloyal fan. Could I do a better job? Absolutely not. And I love having Bill Self as the coach of my beloved Jayhawks. However that doesn't mean I can't think for myself and form my own opinions" - posted by me at 1:22 p.m., just a few comments earlier as part of this discussion.

So for the record, I say that Bill Self knows more about basketball and that I could absolutely not do a better job than he does, yet 4 hours later you say I'm implying I know the team better than Bill Self? Keep trying :-)

Michael Pannacciulli 8 years, 4 months ago

free throws...free throws...there was a certain team in '08 that lost a championship because thy couldn't sink the free throw..hmmm

selby is great..he brings a new energy when he's on the court.

anyone hear Bob Knight call Markeiff, "Marquise" and Marcus "Maurice"? hahhaa...i swore i heard that but i could be wrong...

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

Haha...I must have missed the Marquise, but I do remember everyone looking at each other wondering "who is Maurice?". (FYI, Maurice Morris used to be a running back for the Seattle Seahawks).

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

I think he probably just mixed up the name with Maurice Jones for USC. It's not like he follows our team every week--gotta pick up a whole new set of names each week. Plus, he is kinda old...lol.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

Agreed on the being old part, but come on...you're the second person to give him an out by saying he doesn't follow our team and has to do a new game every week. If it happens once...maybe. But every game he struggles with this, and no other announcer has these problems, even though with all of our recent games being on ESPN we have had multiple announcers who also don't follow our team every week and are doing their first KU game of the season.

mom_of_three 8 years, 4 months ago

No other announcer has these problems - puhlease....Francilla is awful at the names, as is Ron Franklin. Don't know that any announcer for KU hasn't messed up some names or calls or fouls or whatever.. But yes, Coach Knight did seem to have a bit of a problem mainly with Reed and Morningstar. He forgot to look at the numbers. But hey, if they benched every announcer who got names wrong, then there would not be anyone left to call any games.

aerohawk 8 years, 4 months ago

There is also a Jayhawk team that lost the 03 championship because they shot 12-30 from the stripe.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Some quick hits regarding the game .. sorry if repetitive on stuff above, but I was snoozing between 12:00 and 7:00 am unlike some of you fools: 1) Markieff seriously needs to reasses how he attacks the rim. Many have mentioned the need for him to explode and dunk. Maybe he can't. But he might consider taking the ball to the other side of the rim. Too often he gets his shot blocked from behind on seemingly easy buckets or he adjusts like he's 6-4 not 6-9. 2) TRob - man, we just need his energy in the game. Surprised Releford started over TRob when Kieff got the bench to start (for lack of energy, according to the announcer). He is clearly pushing Markieff, which is good. Markieff keeps putting up the numbers.
3) Tyshawn: Uh, flashback. In my opinion, TT has built up some equity this season so we can relax and see this horrible performance as a blip. But in the back of my mind, I'm concerned. I have always felt that TT's poor performances last season were because of TT wanting to be the man,. Meaning feeling a bit insecure with Sherron, X, and Cole getting all the attention. Wanting to make sure everyone knew he was on the floor. Now Selby steps on the court, and we get the 2009-10 version of TT. Coincidence? At this point, I think it was just a coincidence. But certainly worth monitoring. Tyshawn's play yesterday was the factor with the biggest impact on our team's poor performance. 4) Defense - Ok, I get that Brady is supposed be solid defensively. But if TT is so darn fast, why not stick TT on Fontan. Brady clearly is limited physically. Fontan hit at 3 right in Brady's face, next possession drove, scored, and was fouled by Brady for +1, had another 3 where Brady slacked way too far off, and he seemed to easily manuever around Brady. Is that Brady's fault? No. You could tell the guy was busting his tail. But I remain curious as to why we don't go speed on speed there. 5) Reed needs to look for the 3 ball more .. meaning, not pass up on opportunities. He needs to get 5 shots per game from 3, and those will come in the normal flow of the game. Just don't pass up on the shot.

melrank 8 years, 4 months ago

HEM - I remember last year that you were on TT pretty hard and wanted more EJ. This is the 2nd post you've made regarding a changed opinion and I respect your willingness to concede to a different point of view. Equity is a great way to put it.

Interesting take on why Tyshawn struggled yesterday. I had similar thoughts as I put together the connection of him playing and struggling with "feature" players.

I hope you're right on this being a blip.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

Why 5 shots from 3? Please elaborate. I can see you have put some thought into this seeing how you gave a specific number (5). Not a few more, or more shots from 3 but...5, exactly 5. Just wondering what your logic is here. Thank-you.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

6) Releford: Just puzzled here. ict made a great point above about his perimeter defense .. but I guess I just don't see it as being that bad. Clearly Selby was much, much worse in that regard, and we had numerous breakdowns everywhere, the entire second half. Oxical pointed out that he got yanked after missing his first 3. And I rewatched the first minutes when Travis was in. He did nothing wrong .. and he gets yanked the minute he missed the 3 (which was a good shot). What I saw is a guy playing tentative and scared. I'm not inside coach Self's mind, so I don't know why he gets the quick hook. And to compound, why does Travis get the start? Weird. 7) EJ: Now here's a guy that has a gripe. Given EJ's progress, his patience, his good attitude, three ball effectiveness, and his performances to this point, perhaps he deserved to replace TT the last five minutes given TT's subpar day. But the guy gets 8 minutes (with no turnovers)? Clearly, it is defensive related. He is a deserving offensive player. But in rewatching the game, I just didn't see the big defensive missteps (meaning no more than anyone else).
8) Free throws: I won't even waste more space on this. 9) Selby/Chemistry: Jaybate stole some of my thunder here .. he steals a lot of thunder (insert smiley face). Anyway, it is as simple as Selby becoming one of the players, and not THE player. To my point with Reed not shooting. With or without Selby, Reed's our 3 point assassin. He needs to act like it. Just play the game. Marcus is still our top player. What is the worry is that guys stand around and watch, but worse, they start looking to shoot or make something happen when they realize it's been the Selby show. Guys get selfish, jealous, anxious -- all rolled into one. All as opposed to just playing the game, and letting it come to them in the flow of the offense.
10) Starting Lineup: No doubt, Selby starts. You don't have a guy like this coming off the bench. You've recruited him as a top 5 player, you say he's maybe the best player you've recruited, you started him coming out of the half, and he was in the game in crunch time. No doubt he starts. This is a guy you let work through freshman mistakes .. but I've always felt you let talent work through mistakes, bite the bullet a bit, and your finished project in March will be your reward (add Releford and EJ to that thought).

melrank 8 years, 4 months ago

Too ironic - I'm posting on your changed point of view with EJ and TT and you're typing away about EJ needing more time on your next post. This exchange will read funny :)

kranny 8 years, 4 months ago

Offensively, decent shooting, too many turnovers, and too many missed freethrows. Defense wasn't the greatest especially when the twins had to defend one on one against their big guy.. Couldn't move their feet. When we play teams with quick guards we struggle with the dribble drive at times. We rely on help defense and that opens the inside too much. Give USC credit. They adjusted to the post double team and passed to the back side well. Jio started hitting defended shots also. Jio made a big difference for USC. They are not a bad team just no depth. Game play with Selby will take a few games for team adjustment especially on defense. Team defense is the toughest thing for a team to get in sync with. With Selby it's a bit like going back to the beginning of the season for team defense. Selby is a good one. I'd like to see better defense and more dribble penetration by him. I'd also like to see how he reacts to a not-so-good game.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

I tee-ed up the three problems for everyone last night:

a) Little gone;

b) Tyshawn's poor game;

c) Selby shooting 11FGAs that gummed up the inside game of the first unit, while paradoxically eeking out a win for us.

I purposefully addressed b and c and left a unaddressed to see who stepped up. No one did that I noticed, so the board rats have some getting better to do.

Losing Little is a big deal to this team. He lines 6ppg and 4 rpg in a very few minutes and shoots 55% from the field. He is a tough defender, whether Self puts him on a 4, or a 5. Because of Withey's problems, he has played a lot of 4.

Because of Mario Little, even though he was low profile in his contributions and modest minutes, the three true bigs--Kieff, Cus and TRob--could play BTTWs (balls to the walls). They could gamble on defense. They could go over the back for boards. They could try to take some charges. They could play hack'n'slap and push'n'shove and then be set while Little came in and spelled them.

Having Little as insurance meant all three true bigs could play BTTW and that meant they could get in and shove for offensive position most of the time...hence, our sparkling inside shooting percentage.

Having Little as insurance meant all three true bigs could beat the urine out of people in the paint, whether or not they played particularly good fundamental defense.

But now, all three have to play much more conservatively, because Withey cannot provide the insurance. Withey is and advanced R&D project in development for next season. Self can't look down the bench and go, okay, Jeff, go hold the line down in the painted trench, because Jeff can't do it even as well as Mario Little quietly did without respect, and when all he really wanted to do was be a 3.

I've already said I want Mario Little returned to the team, because I think it is the right thing to do for Mario Little.

Now, I am adding Mario Little should be returned to the team, because it is what is best for the team.

I don't care what the media talking knobs say.

I don't care what the a bunch of naives say about Mario's reputed inappropriate behavior.

Bring him back.

Free Mario Little.

Rock Chalk!

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

Well, going against my better judgment...I'll respond here. I 100% agree that losing Little is a big deal for this team. I touched on it a little bit in my early posts on this article (once pointing out that Little's absence was both a distraction and affected team chemistry, both of which were probably contributors to our poor play, and once stating that Jeff Withey's ineffectiveness is a big deal now that Mario Little is not with the team). It is a big deal, and if Little doesn't return I'm not sure what the solution is and I have lower expectations for how far this team can go.

I feel bad for Little. Not because of the poor judgment he displayed this past week and the resulting consequences, but for some of the unfortunate turns his basketball career took here at KU. He was clearly a victim of circumstance on multiple occasions. His first year here he was probably better off red-shirting after his injuries forced him to miss half the year. But he wanted to help the team and Coach Self needed another presence on the floor. Someone who was a viable scoring option and that brought some inside toughness. So he played. With one year of eligibility left he red-shirts last season. The circumstances leading up to that were Kentucky parting ways with Billy Gillispie, then hiring John Calipari, which led to Xavier Henry de-committing from Memphis and landing at KU, which led to Little deciding to red-shirt last season in hopes of more playing time this season at Xavier's position at the 3. Instead he found himself primarily playing the role of 4th big, but he was happy to be on the court. I think during his 2+ seasons years here he has been a victim of circumstance, and we never got to see the real Mario Little play at KU.

AsadZ 8 years, 4 months ago

ict, Very good post. I agree. I fully agree that he must be punished for his actions but I do feel very sorry for him.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

I won't go against my better judgement here. :-)

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

WOW..I actually agree with nearly everything you said here.

Steve Brown 8 years, 4 months ago

"Mario Little should be returned to the team,"

nail hammer head, spot on, unless his hands were around Ms. Prissytart's neck.

Mr. Robbie inability to hit FT and Mr. Footer unable to play at this level yet, puts BTTW pressure on the Twins, as we have depth limits to our bigs.What this team would be w/ Dreiling, Ostertag, Sasha, Mokeski, ooops scratch that, yet a good 5 man off the bench, or a decent sophomore, Randall, Collison, Lefrenz, heck Ken Koenings, would go a long way....nevermind, we dance with the ones we got. Mr. Robinson to hit the free shots and Mr. Footer got to go to dance class and juggling class for foot work and hand work. It's a journey.

Won't happen, yet I see value to bring Selby off bench with first substitution, then leave him in a good long time,it has benefits.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

Just my opinion..but it's time to change the stating line-up. To me , Brady is an overachieving player that every team needs but hustle and sacrifice doesn't mean a starting position, ask Steve Woodberry. I think HCBS feels an obligation because Brady sat the championship year, but if you want the best team, EJ and Selby should starting. HCBS built a pretty good team at Illinois with a 3 guard starting team.

AsadZ 8 years, 4 months ago

For those making a claim that Brady is Bill Self's boy, didn't HCBS suspend him for the entire semester for DUI charge and after coming back got him out of the starting line up? When in doubt trust HCBS. He is aware of the situation, players skills, their performances etc better than anyone else. he is looking to play the players who he believes gives them the best chance to win on any given night.

Joe Ross 8 years, 4 months ago

It might be the right thing for Mario Little, but its not the right message to send. Players can beat up on their girlfriends, act destructively, and remain in good standing with the team. No way!

Theutus 8 years, 4 months ago

Who said anything about remaining in good standing? He's obviously going to have to earn his way back onto the court...

All anyones asking for is that he be given the opportunity to learn from his mistakes, because quite frankly from what i've read he didn't even make that big of one....

He caught his girlfriend sleeping with another guy, and then yelled at her... "Pushing" someone out of the way isn't a crime in my opinion... He didn't hurt anyone.. The guy didn't murder anyone, and quite frankly I think Brady committed a worse crime in driving around drunk. I'm glad Brady got another chance, and I hope Little does as well.

Joe Ross 8 years, 4 months ago

Who said anything about remaining in good standing? Here is the quote (be careful to apply the appropriate implied message):

"I've already said I want Mario Little returned to the team, because I think it is the right thing to do for Mario Little. Now, I am adding Mario Little should be returned to the team, because it is what is best for the team. I don't care what the media talking knobs say. I don't care what the a bunch of naives say about Mario's reputed inappropriate behavior. Bring him back. Free Mario Little."

Returning Mario to the team equates with his being in good standing. Period.

MIlwaukeeHawkee 8 years, 4 months ago

  1. Withey = Cheno-Withey...total floppin' fish.

  2. Start the kid, Selby, and let the team gel with him before tourney time in March.

  3. Morningstar is a KU legacy & I'm sure a wonderful kid, but he isn't a Div 1 powerhouse program starter.....period.

Dr_Roach 8 years, 4 months ago

Well,I call KU a D1 powerhouse program and Morningstar starts for them. So..you would be wrong.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

And lastly, if it isn't Bilas doing the commentary, I want B. Knight. He has insights and memories second to none. The 2nd best thing from going to MSG vs Memphis was not listening to Dick.

MIlwaukeeHawkee 8 years, 4 months ago

Hawk7782...totally agree. I've always hated Knight because I have no patience for bullies, but I have to admit, he's a damn good color guy & he definitely loves KU's style & dead old-school coaches ( Clare Bee ?).

Martin Rosenblum 8 years, 4 months ago

Nobody missing Mussberger? He had issues with the player's names also as does Francilla, Digger and sometimes Ron Franklin. Geez, when it comes down to it, more commentators seem to be bumbling idiots than ones who are well versed in names and stats. Could be worse. They could be soccer commentators who call games with mostly foreign named players!

Bilas is a lone professional at what he does.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Franklin and Fran are awesome .. smooth, don't talk too much .. just a good pairing.

mom_of_three 8 years, 4 months ago

Franklin and Fran also get names wrong, and I think Fran is hard to listen to because I feel he is always out to prove himself as announcer and ex-coach. Even thought bob Knight got more names wrong than usual the other day, I would take him anyday. It may be a dukie bias on my part, but I can not stand to listen to Bilas call any KU game as he doesn't seem to like the KU.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

Truthfully..I've always liked Mussberger but he is more the 'all around' announcer who can cover boxing or just about any sport but he doesn't the insider knowledge of Bilas or Knight.

Martin Rosenblum 8 years, 4 months ago

If Max was still on the radio, more than a few of us would turn the TV volume down and be listening to him.

Miss Max!

dynamitehawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Man... if we had only signed Harrison Barnes...

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

Xcelent point. Scary good could have been.

100 8 years, 4 months ago

Amazing all the pseudo-hater comments... It appears the University of Kansas dominates a lot of these peoples' minds, whether they have any control of it or not.

Then they come onto a message board like this & attempt to make a few "statements" that verge on KU fanhood, but really wreak of a troll who cannot get the hate out of their mind, wishing their team could play an absolutely awful game & still win.

USC somehow looked brilliant for more than half of this game.

We looked for the most part unorganized & without a real plan of attack; in short by Kansas standards, over the course of the game we played very poorly.

Yet somehow we won.

Really glad Selby is part of this team, it will be enjoyable to see him gel with Kansas team basketball as the year progresses.

We have a bunch of winners on this team. Just an off night for team ball....

That said, USC looked like worldbeaters with a pretty solid starting five, one of whom is new to their team & made them look like a top five ball club throughout much of this game (although their offensive guard play was dreadful to watch, it was like watching Pulen stand there dribbling or Calipari's guys standing there waiting to be open from 25 feet... Luckilly for USC their entry passes were very nice in the 2nd half & their 25 foot no-offense shots nearly always dropped).

And their zone pack it in D was a new thing for us to work against, so I'll take that as a good wholesome learning experience & some good tape for our coaches to dissect & teach from.

For as bad as we played against a great looking USC team with renewed energy, a loaded cast, a decent strategic adjustment....

We still won.

Give them some time to work in practice; we are going to be very solid January through the last game in April.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

It depends on how the comments are meant. When Brady is on the court, I'm always hoping that he makes the shot or gets a defensive stop (same for Withey). I just think that there are better players who should be starting.

And yes.."Give them some time to work in practice; we are going to be very solid January through the last game in April".

No doubt

I think it will be a lot earlier than that.

Martin Rosenblum 8 years, 4 months ago

KU will have defeated 4 /10ths of the PAC10 teams after whipping up on Cal. this week. And why is there a Big12/Pac10 series?

Anybody know the overall record in this years series of all B12 teams vs. Pac10?

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Melrank: I just think that EJ deserves PT. This season, he has earned that by way of his performance on the court. I had mentioned this in a post a while back .. I think TT's performance through the first 9 games this season validated the criticism last season, because the type of player many of us wanted him to be last season, emerged this season. TT, I'm sure, wants to play in the NBA. Hopefully he'll realize that he will never be the main-man at this level, or the NBA. His path the to NBA is what we saw in the first 9 games.

MilwaukeeHawkee: The "Cheno-Withey" is pretty freaking funny .. hope it doesn't stick. But Withey really looks stiff. Look, Withey simply needs time to develop. A clear project. Perhaps we get one solid season from him. That would be worth it. But we might need him some this season, for 3 minutes here or there.

On Mario Little, I think my first impression was that it would not hurt us at all .. meaning not one bit. That opinion, though, relies squarely upon Releford becoming a factor. But even without that, I'm not convinced his loss will harm us at all. Really, of the top 10 players, if you had to lose one, would it be him?

Actually, my vote if we had to lose one .. would be Brady. If anything, it would settle the on-going Brady debate once and for all. The best argument the Brady-lovers have is "because coach Self says so." Obviously, that has merit. But it is not definitive, unless you would admit Self is "perfect", thus God-like." I have not reached that point. What I would have love to have seen is TT guarding Fontan yesterday, or EJ, or even a bigger guy like Releford (much like Rush did sometimes). There is no doubt that Brady does some of the small things well.

But to me, you have to weigh the plus/minus at gametime. When you combine all attributes, contributions, and negatives, what is the final result during the game. And you have to assess what each player would bring you as they develop. Assuming we are playing for March. No one .. no one .. would debate that Brady has peaked. He isn't getting any better. Show me any ounce of improvement in three seasons. We have 2 players .. EJ and Releford .. who clearly can get much better, and have significant upside. No on will debate that. And with that, it is not even close. Those two points dictate the answer. Bench Brady. Play E.J. and Releford. Now. If your goal is to win the title. This just isn't a debate.

If Self does that now, and we reach Feb. 1 and he says, "you know what, E.J. and Releford are a disaster." He can go back to Brady. And as I've said over and over .. who cares if we lose a couple of games if the reward related to that risk is a better chance at a championship? If we are sitting at 8-2 right now but are putting our higher upside players in a better position to improve and help us win a title, would we rather have that .. than 10-0?

That's my vote.

AsadZ 8 years, 4 months ago

Twins are playing soft on both ends. They need to toughen up especially on D. HCBS is trying to send them the message, not starting Kief was a clear message. Hope they will get it.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

+1 "Bench Brady. Play E.J."

Brady will still get his minutes but it's time to recognize the better player who in all likelihood will be a major contributor the next two yrs.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

Wow! EJ's coming along, bit by bit, but any way you measure it, Brady had a better game than EJ. Heck, outside of scoring, Brady had a better floor game than Josh. What dimension above three are you operating on that leads to you to see what is not apparent to me down here in 3D. Tell me what you guys are seeing EJ do that leads you to these strikingly counter-intuitive conclusions, at least to me. I really am trying to understand here.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

Appreciate the way you disagree with others opinions...without the verbal assualts that aren't needed. I have a couple of reasons; Confidence. EJ attacks while Brady is worried about making mistakes. EJ is more athletic than Brady. He has the ability to create while Brady just doesn't have the speed or quickness. EJ has more upside, he will continue to improve while to me, Brady was actually better last year. What favors Brady is experience, if EJ gets more playing time, by the time conference play comes around, EJ will be a much better player then Brady ever could be.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

100,

Frankly, it is amazing that KU won. It is certainly a testament to the capacity of greater talent, more experience, and good coaching finding a way to triumph over a very tough situation for a team to get a win in. We were very fortunate to be in our predicament, i.e., fresh loss of Little and introduction of Selby, while at home, and while USC was rebuilding, and introducing a new starter of its own.

I would also like to compliment USC Coach Kevin O'Neill, a guy I generally find a pain in the neck, for what I thought was the best coaching job done against KU this season.

Unlike Pastner, O'Neill really knows his stuff, whether he seems a jerk, or not. He schemed perfectly against KU and was really the first coach to do so this season. He went zone and stayed zone when he should have, knowing Little's absence meant KU was going to operate on three foul prone bigs, and with our outside shooters Tyrel and Brady mired in slumps. He also recognized something I totally missed; that zoning would bring out the worst in Tyshawn. Tyshawn and Self should send O'Neill a Christmas card thanking him for exposing Tyshawn's vulnerability and need for getting better now, rather than during conference season. And while O'Neill's guys roughed us up, IMHO they stayed well within the bounds of reputable precedent these days.

Self was out-coached strategically for the first time this season, but he is so wiley now that he was even able to overcome that. Self resorted to the Larry Brown tactic of letting Selby shoot anywhere any time and hope it saved the team from a likely loss apparent to Self even early on.

In the best sense of Okie Ball, Self took what O'Neill gave him--outside shooting, especially by Selby. O'Neill especially gave Selby open looks. I'm sure O'Neill doubted Self would put the game in Selby's hands and decided to dare him to, and Self did.

So: Self outmaneuvered O'Neill tactically. Self was able to turn the game into a series of small tactical battles with Selby that he used to keep the game close, figuring he could not play through the bigs with USC's zone, and then won at the end with a couple good plays with Marcus, with Selby's final trey and some FTs by Tyrel.

Kevin stuck with strategy.

Bill defaulted to tactics.

There were problems with both paths, but Bill won.

kranny 8 years, 4 months ago

Agree and disagree. Kevin forgot one important piece of strategy: guard the guy with the hot hand(Selby) and don't let him out your sight, don't fall for a pass fake to a guy who hasn't made a basket all day(Taylor). Selby hits #5, game over.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

Self gambled big on a first game freshman and defaulted to tactics in the best tradition of--and to reiterate just for you, 100--Larry Brown-style, make-it-up-as-you-go ball. A couple times I actually thought Self had channelled LB and turned his body over to LB's mind to control.

As I say so often. Self is a genius. But it is a particular kind of genius. He has the genius of adaptation. Not always. You catch him from time to time sticking too long to strategy, though less and less I would say, as Self gets better and better.

And he believes gambling is a virtue, rather than a vice, at times, too.

This USC game was, after the first 5 minutes, once of the biggest gambles he will make all season. And he would have crapped out large had Selby merely shot 50% from trey!

Self gambled and won!

He's coaching on such a high level it is insane.

He's already again this season at that point where he doesn't really know how he's doing some of it and neither does anyone else.

How many coaches can win a game playing without a working strategy, shooting in the low 40s overall, with all the cornerstone players floundering, just lose a key utility player and gamble and win with a freshman that goes 5-8 from trey in his first game? I can't think of more than one. Certainly not Eddie. Only LB.

You have long argued for LB's influence. I have long argued it is there, but a small slice of this coaching pie.

This was a striking example of that LB slice.

But Self suggested after KU won a lot of squeakers early last season, each season a team gets a certain quantity of luck--a bucket of luck if you will. How big the bucket is varies for each team based on how talented they are, and how hard they work, and how confident they are, but nevertheless they have a finite amount of it. And, as Self said, the close wins, while feeling good, take an emotional toll on a team. The close wins not only draw down the luck in the bucket, but some how diminish the team's emotional resilience needed to access the luck in the bucket. KU just drew down that reservoir for a win against a rebuilding USC team. Only time will tell if it could lead to a later overdraft. :-)

Rock Chalk!

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

"Sports Medicine Bulletin: Don't Suffer Athlete's Foot Needlessly"

This may be old news to the contemporary jocks out there, but if anyone is suffering from acute Athlete's Foot that Tinactin cannot manage, the kind of nasty stuff that spreads onto the bottoms of your feet and produces small blisters, or pustules, that weep when punctured, go ask your doctor about a pill form of Diflucan (Fluconazole). This stuff works fast and it ends the condition in a week. Awesome stuff.

No, I'm not a medical professional. No, I don't know if it has any bad side effects. No, I don't have any stake in the company that makes the drug.

And I am talking about an N of 1.

A friend tried it after struggling with his condition for a year and trying everything over the counter and every common hygenic approach, plus a range of stocking materials, also.

Nothing worked.

Diflucan did. Ask your doc about it. If your doc doesn't know about it, which some in our neck of the woods did not, ask your doc to research it. If he researches it and says its bad, probably trust him. Bu if your doc won't research it, then get a new doc. :-)

Rock Chalk!

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Jaybate: Here's what I see in EJ. 1) He has the ability to pass. He has made reliable entry passes, both off the bounce and over the top. He has that skill. 2) He is a solid ball handler. At least as reliable as TT. Comparable to Chalmers. 3) He is fast with the ball on the break. Dribbles the ball out in front when in space. 4) He is quick on his feet. He doesn't cross over too much on D. He slides, and he is long. 5) He has been great from 3 pt range, shooting over 50%. 6) He has shot good shots from 3 pt. range, nothing wild. 7) His overall field goal percentage is over 50% .. actually right at 60%. 8) He takes care of the ball, and has only committed 6 turnovers in 124 minutes .. his turnover per minute played is near the best on the team, just behind Reed 9) He has an assist to turnover ratio of better than 3:1 10) The obvious .. he is wildly athletic, has clearly improved from last season. Thus no reason to believe he won't improve going forward. 11) He is and has always been a finisher at the hoop. 12) He provides a real offensive threat, from everywhere on the court.

And this season, he has played real minutes, in real game situations, vs. real competition.

Compare to Brady -- Brady has played 246 minutes (10 games), EJ 124 minutes (8 games). So basically twice as many minutes. 1) EJ averages 5.0 pts per game, Brady 5.6; 2) EJ 6 turnovers, Brady 14 (a note, Selby had 4 in his first game); 3) EJ 19 assists, Brady 24; 4) EJ 7 3 pointers made, Brady 7 - EJ 3 point percentage 53%, Brady 35%. 5) EJ 15 field goals made, Brady 21 - EJ 60% field goal %, Brady 51%. 6) EJ 2.4 assist per game, Brady 2.4 assists per game. 7) EJ 12 rebounds, Brady 24.

All stats .. every one .. are in EJ's favor (except rebounds are a push per minute played).

Again, pair the stats up with the fact that EJ's upside is simply not a debate, and the fact that Brady has peaked (at a plateau may be better) is not a debate either.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

(and assists per game are even)

Brady has a better ratio on steals, fyi, per game.

Theutus 8 years, 4 months ago

I couldn't agree more HighElite... I think EJ needs more time, but I don't think it needs to come from Brady alone. I think it needs to be a combination of Brady/Taylor that cough up minutes to EJ.

Both TT and Brady deserve good minutes, and they can contribute a lot... But I see absolutely no reason why EJ shouldn't be getting 20+/game if not more.

Joe Baker 8 years, 4 months ago

I really don't think BStar has proven anymore than any other deserving player on this team. BStar is a 5,6 or 7 yr Senior that brings a ton of experience to this young team. He's good and he's made some great plays, but give some of those mins to other guys that are just as deserving and find out what they can do.

I have been waiting for TT and BStar to become more consistent. It's time for HCBS to give EJ some quality mins, make mistakes (like TT/BStar) without yanking him and killing his confidence. I think Withey is also much like EJ. Again, I have to trust HCBS, he gets the $$$$$$$$$$s for this job. LOL- I just don't agree with his development of EJ or Withey!

jayhawktalk 8 years, 4 months ago

If you are going to compare on a per minute basis, I think it should be mandated to break it out that way... I mentioned in a different post that I had done this a couple weeks or so ago. Not sure whether the loss of formatting will totally screw this up, so will post the summary comments first, and then see if the data is legible with the formatting loss. NOTE: this is from a couple weeks ago, so is missing at least a couple games, but I think it does make a case for EJ. Players included were Brady, Tyrel, EJ, M.Little & T-Rel.

Summary For Brady Good - Average (Relative to Peer Comparison) 1st of 5 in steals/min Tied 1st of 5 in Free Throws with Tyrel @ 100% (Elijah last @ 50%) 2nd in Assists - Elijah @ #1 3rd of 5 in rebounding - Mario (1) & Travis (2) 3rd of 5 in 3pt% @ 40% - Travis (1) & Elijah (2) ahead 3rd of 5 in FG% @ 56.2% - Travis (1) & Elijah (2) ahead

Bad Last in blocked shots More fouls per minute Last in scoring 4th of 5 in in Turnovers - only Travis is worse Last in Ast/TO ratio - Elijah leads here @ 5.6:1

Lets see how the formatting gets trashed here... Yep, not working. If I get motivated, may work on a solution. For now, back to work...

Craig Colgin 8 years, 4 months ago

memhawk, I am not convinced that we will beat Cal, is anybody? Really?

Martin Rosenblum 8 years, 4 months ago

Cal is 6-4 this early in the season.

They only have two seniors total.

Their average score is in the 50's.

Their highest score is in the low 80's.

We have beaten 3 of their conference-mates.

We have the Morris twins

We have a deeeep bench.

We now have Josh Selby.

We have Bill Self.

WE ARE K U !!!!!

Craig Colgin 8 years, 4 months ago

All excellent points, and I think that all of that should be more than enough to mop the floor with Cal. So why aren't we mopping the floor with the other Pac-10 teams. 2 that are very similar to Cal so far, came real close to upsetting us in the Phog. Im just saying, the way we have been playing, I don't think its a forgone conclusion that we win this game. I agree we win it by the numbers, but how about on the court?

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

"The best argument the Brady-lovers have is "because coach Self says so." --HEM

It is a pretty darned good argument, isn't it? :-)

It is like trump in Bridge. It is not the only good card to hold, but other things equal, trump is best.

Well, you anti-Brady folks have been playing without much trump for two and a third years. :-)

And like really bad Bridge players, you keep doubling down at the worst times. :-)

The problem facing anti-Brady folks is that they have no case for any of his substitutes being better than Brady, so they selectively note Brady's weaknesses and selectively note the strengths of the guys behind him. This is one of the most common kinds of specious thinking there is. You find it a lot among stupid persons. You also find it among smart persons that get married to an unsupportable position and then lack the self-confidence to back down from it. You also find it among certain grant chasing academic whores that massage the data through adoption of inappropriate analytic methods and disingenously parse it to support findings that will enable further grants. And, of course, it is rampant among (and almost a litmus test for) ideologues.

Numbers don't back the anti-Brady folks, so they parse data inappropriately, or talk in terms of what is self-evident, not Self-evident. The steak of performances in glue roles doesn't back them, so they talk about the sizzle of what will come if only they are believed. Glue statistics don't support them for the glue roles that the players are competing for, so they disingenuously (or perhaps just stupidly) try to discredit the glue role that Self has publicly described on his teams. Coach Self won't play the players they want, so they ineptly try to ridicule those that point out that Self seems to know what he is doing and that Self seems a better bet to be credible than them, other things being at least congruent. :-)

Of course my favorite specious anti-Brady argument of all is the one that argues that because Tyshawn played quite a bit his sophomore season when he was stinking up the floor, well, look, look, look, how much better he has became late last season and this season because of it. :-)

First, this is really lousy thinking, the kind that even students in introductory logic should be ashamed of. :-)

Second, if the logic were truly valid, then Self ought to let Brady keep playing, especially if Brady starts stinking up the floor as Tyshawn did, so that we can all have the great benefit that will come in Brady's improvement late this season, rather than have to put up with all the bone head plays that so many of the guys playing behind him have a track record of making, as they get slowly better from playing in games. :-)

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

Third, from what I can observe and glean from Tyshawn's improvement, his big improvement this season (until USC), particularly, came from off season work, and from simple emotional and psychological maturation. None of the guys behind Brady can get in an off season of work and mature emotionally and psychologically faster than their chronological aging oermits, unless some of the board rats here are remarkably advanced at genetic re-engineering (and maybe even some kind of time-travel underpinned by quantum entanglement, or something) and are able to genetically modify and accelerate the chronological related maturation of the players behind Brady. :-) Added PT just won't do it, fellas. If lots of PT were all that were needed to accelerate chronological maturation, then Tyshawn's freshman season of 25-30mpg play would surely have prevented him from ever having gone into last season's funk, right? :-)

Your thinking is so rotten it is embarrassing to say I went to the same school that you folks did. Say you went to Fizzou, will ya?

Come on anti-Brady board rats, take at least a little pride in your thinking. You are part of the KU nation. It is embarrassing. It is like you have caught whatever Dick Vitale has succumbed to. Are you bald, too? It is like there are here on this site something akin to Stepford Wives, only called Anti-Brady Wives. :-)

You anti-Brady aliases are like big bad wolves huffing and puffing through everyone's screen saying, "All we stupid, or insecure, or ideologically constrained wolves are going to huff and puff and bloooooooooow your intellectual houses down, if you don't recognize the verrrrrrrrrrrrrry high ceilings of the players behind Brady, and ignore the facts about how much less well they play the glue role than Brady does up to now."

Well, I'm one little pig who ain't afraid of stupid and/or insecure, or ideologically hidebound wolves thinking speciously and perseverating in doing so for two and a third seasons now despite facts and constant reminders from many board rats laboring under normal brain function. :-)

Really, I have listened and read and jumped through pretzel logics of all of you at one time or another, and what you keep typing keeps not adding up to a thimble full of sound thinking, and I believe in your hearts you know it. :-)

You're just afraid to be wrong...well, at least the ones that are not stupid, too. :-)

Let me reassure you for the thousandth time, board rats with normal brain function will embrace you and love you even more, if you say something like, "Well, ummm, maybe I was a little off base the last two and a third years, but I get it now." :-)

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

Heck, the normal brain function crowd will even say, "Hey, its okay. Brady may start flopping into a splinter jockey next game. EJ and Travis may replace him for the rest of the season because of how badly he has been practicing since the last game. Nothing is written. You could still get your hope fulfilled that Brady will become a bench jockey superceded by EJ, Travis, or Jordan." :-)

Reading the posts arguing against Brady's play over the years, I recognize some stupid aliases, some aliases married to public positions they are too insecure to back down from, some aliases that perseverate in mistaking certain physical abilities for impact play as skill at filling a glue role, and some hide bound ideologues. Mercifully, there are no grants to be won by massaging the numbers against Brady, or I am sure we would be reading some highly scholarly disinformation about why Brady should not be playing the minutes he does. :-)

Really folks, it is okay to admit that you have been wrong, and remain wrong about Brady, just as it would be okay if all the glue related quantitative numbers, properly parsed, began to trend against Brady irrevocably, and inexorably toward players behind him (though they do not appear to be doing so), and all the qualitative attributes of performance began to drift against Brady (though they also do not appear to be doing so) and Bill Self benched him for the rest of the season. It would be okay for me to write: Brady played well enough in his glue role at the 3 position for 2 and one third seasons for Self to play Brady the minutes that he did, but now he has become a lousy, irredeemable 3 unable to play the glue role adequately and so Coach Self has decided to bench him and so it is time for me to say: well, Brady, you did good but not good enough to play a minute more this season.

Or it would be okay if Brady kept playing his usual solid glue role, but EJ, Travis, or Jordan, simply got so much better at glue that Coach Self said, "EJ, Travis, and Jordan will get all the PT the rest of the PT this season. And it would be okay if I said, Brady you played well enough to play the 3 the minutes you did for two and a third seasons, but your play suggests you are not and Coach Self says so too.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

And I will be utterly comfortable in doing it the moment Brady is being sharply outplayed in the glue role and Bill Self concurs and sits him for the rest of the season, or just most of the time.

Heck, I would be utterly comfortable if Brady continues his slump, and EJ, or Travis ramp it up in the glue role, or even if it were Jordan Juenneman, or even Niko Roberst, began to ramp up. I seriously have no problem if EJ, Travis, or Jordan, or Niko ramp up and Brady falters. I just want the best guy at giving the glue at the 3 that Self wants playing. I don't want the guy with the highest ceiling according to some board rat. I don't want the guy who might be a little better if coaches began to play the guys who didn't play as well and gravity ceased to make high arching shots fall down toward baskets.

It is pretty amusing that so many cannot accept Brady playing well enough to keep playing and well enough for Coach Self to keep playing him.

They are like conspiracy theorists sometimes.

My favorite Anti-Brady conspiracy theory is that Bill Self has some kind of a psychological obsession with Brady. Do you folks that voice this have any clue how absurd you sound?

My next favorite Anti-Brady conspiracy theory is that Roger Morningstar has something on Bill Self, or is such a big contributor to the Williams Fund, or supplies crucial beer kegs for parties, or something, that Bill Self has to play Brady instead of EJ, Travis, Jordan, or Niko. Holy cow! Why don't you just start web sites called Jayhawk Prison Planet.com and have it hosted by some wacko that insists Roger Morningstar is an Illuminati! :-)

But it is even more amusing that they don't appear to know how amusing they are. :-)

l'm for Brady till I see someone play well enough to beat him out of more and more minutes; then I'm for whoever beats him out. And then I'll be for which ever guy beats that guy out. Ain't that how it is supposed to be? You get chances. You play better. You play more. You play worse. You play less, given a few situational MUA exceptions.

Rock Chalk!

100 8 years, 4 months ago

Re: Brady

  1. He rarely turns it over.
  2. His entry passes & angles are second to none.
  3. He passes first.
  4. He passes quickly.
  5. The ball doesn't stick. 5 1/2. His quick non sticky passing often leads to very energetic & emotionally uplifting plays for our team, whether it be alley oop dunks or simple post, turn arounds for Marcus, or a wide open look from 3 for Markief. After the high energy play where the roof is coming off the barn & the ESPN camera man is all over TRobb's grill or the partially detached backboard, Brady is quietly & quickly getting back into his defensive spot, containing a possible cherry pick disaster, making sure the other team doesn't catch us sleeping or celebrating.
  6. When he shoots, it's almost always a high percentage shot. And it's almost always after passing it a couple times first to the highest percentage spots/players on the court.
  7. He rarely turns the ball over.
  8. He plays the best lockdown defense on the team (one of those shooting fouls against USC was ticktack).
  9. He boxes his player out.
  10. He is where he should be when the opposing team's shot is clanking the iron (anyone notice the huge two key rebounds he had, one of which saved the game).
  11. His hands are quick.
  12. These hands get steals.
  13. He rarely lets a guard drive into the teeth of our paint. He angle guards correctly, making the guard take a route he didn't plan on taking.
  14. Typically he's a very consistent free throw shooter.
  15. He leads quietly by example (think of assist-T.O.-steals)
  16. His hand is almost always in the face of the other team's best shooter.

.... All this said, for all of the hidden non-flashy reasons that fit into perfect Coach Self hi-lo basketball which employs trustworthy guards to feed the post & play lockdown D.... he still cannot dunk.

Some of you posters are right....

How in the world could Coach Self have him out there, he....

Really sucks!!!!!

Hank Cross 8 years, 4 months ago

Talk about damning with faint praise: "1. He rarely turns it over." If an employee's best attribute is that they don't screw up that much, a pink slip is not far behind. In the real world, if an employer isn't getting back in production what their paying the employee several times over, the employee is fired. That is unless they're the boss's pet.

As for his his TO to Assist/Steal ratio, if you add in PFs, which are also turnovers (and often most costly) its 46 steals/assists to 33 PFs/TOs. Not exactly setting the world on fire. Further, his assists are not created on the fast break or breaking down a defender off the dribble in the half-court offense.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

All anyone on the second unit has to do is give better glue than Brady and they will take Brady's pt. Xavier started ahead of Brady and took half the pt last season. Xavier was smart and steady enough to figure out how to beat Brady out half the time. Of course he was a first round draft choice. If Brady is so awful, it should be a piece of cake, right?

Robert Murphy 8 years, 4 months ago

I've seen him dunk. Like it or not Brady is an important part of our team. He gets my full support.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

HEM,

I have been down this statistical path with justanotherfan recently. EJ plays PG most of the time, so his numbers indicate what he is a capable of as a PG. But Brady plays the 3. I tried to make the logical disconnect of comparing PG numbers with 3 numbers, as I could to justanother, who is among our most astute posters on the sight, and even he could not bring himself to admit the fallacy. So: I don't have much hope for persuading you either, because you to are often an insightful commentator, despite the fact that we often disagree and you write occassionally disparaging remarks about mois.

And when you try to compare EJ with Brady based solely on the Memphis game, when EJ did play a lot of 3 for Brady, you are stuck with an N of 1, and on a night when Brady played a horrible game, which all players occasionally do.

But if one insists on comparing on an N of 1 (i.e., the Memphis game), the on EJ's best performance of the season, he produced a line score virtually identical to Brady's average line score for two and a third seasons. It is not good enough for EJ's best performance to equal Brady's average for EJ to beat him out.

But even so, Self keeps giving EJ significant minutes whereever it seems to make sense to do so, because he is getting better.

But the things you point out just don't indicate that he's is performing as a glue player better than Brady yet.

I'm not saying he can't.

Heck, he's massively improved his trey. He has massively improved his ability to not get overstimulated and go bonehead. His on ball defense is now good enough to play any position on the perimeter, but it is particularly advantageous at the PG, because of his height.

EJ shows signs of being a pretty good passer, when he actually correctly chooses when and who to pass to, but he still often does not.

Really, I could understand, especially after the USC game, if you and many others were restless to give him more minutes at the PG, which is the role Self has crafted for him this season.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

But even if Brady implodes into a black hole tomorrow, what sense would it make to redeploy EJ to the 3 position, when we have Travis there waiting in the wings and getting better, and need a freaking back-up PG, because even Tyshawn at his best needs 10 minutes of rest, and because he is sometimes shaky, probably really needs a 15 minute man behind him every game.

Having written so much today, I now lack the time at this moment to try to respond in more detail to your post, but I promise I will read it and digest it and do my very best to see it your way, unless there are fallacies in reasoning and data parsing that trigger a disconnect.

I am a fantastically fair person.

Most of my bosses, especially the disingenuous and crooked ones, have hated me for it. I always give persons the benefit of the doubt, except for lurking trolls. :-)

All of my employees have loved me for my fairness.

All the women in my life have been unfaithful to me, because they knew they would be able to make a case for themselves having done so and I would bend over backwards to see it their ways. :-)

I always try to get to yes.

I always try to go to the positive, however many detours into the negative I may find it tactically advantageous to take.

I never give up on anyone.

I am kind.

I am loving.

I have an above average IQ,

I care.

I have worked hard on my emotional IQ.

I try to be a good lover and a better gourmet cook.

I love scuba diving and traveling cheaply in Europe.

I caught a magnificient spring Salmon and it made me so sad that I do not know if I ever dare catch another one. They are too beautiful to kill.

And I love KU basketball and only insist on sound thinking about it, whomever proves to be right, or wrong.

And I even admit I am wrong, when I am.

Done it many times here. :-)

Rock Chalk!

Martin Rosenblum 8 years, 4 months ago

Wow, a man who is not only prolific with opinions about others, but, can assess himself in such specific areas as the unfaitful women in his past.

I'm sorry Mr. Jaybate, our time is up for this session. See you next week.

FairgroveJayhawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Regarding Little, I believe we can all relate to his situation. If anyone here feels they can't, they just didn't love the chick enough :)

On a serious note, we have all lost our tempers, said and done things we didn't agree with at the time and still don't agree with today. We all wish we could turn back time to make a better decision about something. Many of us, myself included, could have been in some kind of trouble at some time if the police had been present.

What if the police hadn't been called? What if the drunk party hadn't wanted to press charges (assumption). Either way lets say Self finds out about this, what would he do? Would he limit Little's game time for a few games while we all wondered why? We'd blame it on poor practice or tardiness or something. Maybe Little would be suspended a few games for behavior detrimental to the team.

Either way, Little has sacrificed a great deal of his life for the KU basketball program. He deserves that to pay dividends now.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Holy crap .. I seriously wonder if I could type that much on one subject area. Jaybate, man, you do need to write a book on something. But always appreciate the passion.

The fact is, no matter how much you protest .. any of you .. the Brady-lover faction is the one lacking in logic. You look to the subjective, not the objective to make your points.

There is no doubt that Brady brings certain positive. But you are setting the bar way too low.

100s points above make my point. Read them. The things that he points out as Brady's main attributes are things that players get better at with experience. That's right, play them more, and they get better. Amazing concept. Players can improve at the intangibles. Experience can permit that progress. There is no doubt that Brady does things that don't show up in the stat book. But what is funny about this is that it is argued as if Brady is the only one that does these things. Other guys block out, other guys protect against the cherry picker, other guys help on D, other guys pass, etc. The point is that Brady's attributes are outweighed by his shortcomings. And guess what .. Brady can never learn what Releford and EJ can do athletically. So Brady is as good as he gets. Releford and EJ have upside. But shoot low, play it safe, play Brady 20+ every game

The point is, EJ and Releford can learn what Brady does well, and can get better at it. But Brady can never learn or get better at what EJ and Releford bring athletically to the table.

Back to Jaybate - Look, I know EJ is not a 3 guy. I was the one that pointed out to you last year he was actually a point guard, and recruited as one. But in Self's system, the 2 and the 3 are sometimes undistinguishable, and sometimes with the 1 ... thus the phrase combo guard. There were many, many times in 2008 we saw Robinson, Chalmers, and Collins on the floor together, and sometimes we tremendous stretches with that look. How horrible would it be to have Selby, TT, EJ, Marcus, and Markieff on the floor together? Also, we have seen Brady at the 1, and at the 2. The point is that in comparing stats, EJ's stats are better. Last year, when his stats were better, it was .. well, he wasn't in during enough minutes where the game was on the line. Now, the argument shifts. The guy is hitting the 3. We need that. But look, if it were up to me, I'd start Releford at the 3 period. I'd give him 20-25 minutes a game. EJ would be the first guard off the bench, and could play the 1, 2, and 3 spots. Five man rotation at those spots with TT, Selby, EJ, Releford, and Reed. Spot Brady in, 10-12 per game. And then, if we get to Feb. 1, and EJ and/or Releford flop, and don't get better, re-enter Brady at 20 per game. Easy.

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

HEM, you are a textbook case of an ideologue. You do not acknowledge your fallacies and go on to commit more. :-)

Be of good cheer. Aim doing this for your own good.

False assumption: they can learn to do what Brady does.

There is no evidence of this, just your word.

Travis is a third year soph and cannot yet do glue as well. What is taking him so long? What is he waiting for? You do not present evidence for him, because it does not prove your wish. You have no evidence and you contradict the coach.

EJ is a pg, not a 3. You have no evidence. You contradict the coach and you have no evidence. Have you ever won an argument with anyone other than your mother this way? :-)

Lacking evidence, you try to impeach the coach by a straw argument. That is a fallacy too. no one argues the coach is perfect, as you suggest they do. He is merely considerably smarter than you are, HEM.

Are you so trapped in ideological thinking you think no one would notice the fallacies in your thinking? Who taught you to think and reason this way? You are not reasoning, HEM. You are just saying things. Was it an ideologue that did this to you? They were not right, HEM. Human beings can think. They are not all persuaded by ideology.

EJ, a pg, is not a better 3 than Brady just because you say he is. His pg numbers do not prove he would be a better 3 just because you say they would. Just because you say Self is not perfect does not imply we think he is. Just because you think Self is wrong about Brady does not mean he is.

Only ideologues think this way, HEM.

Therefore, you must be an ideologue.

But you can break free of ideological thinking patterns, HEM.

You can get better.

But you have to want to.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Jaybate: What you did in your response was a classic .. you attacked the writer. It's no different than those that say someone is a "hater" and move on. Just more words to do so.

Here's an easy example. You flat ignore that coach Self regularly played Robinson, Chalmers, and Collins together on the floor. None of them were 3s. That's logic, is it not? That is pointing to exactly what coach Self did? And then noting that it worked and was effective. None of that is debated. And then comparing that to TT, EJ, and Selby. And who said EJ is a better 3 than Brady? Not me. I suggest that by playing your best athletes, with upside, giving them valuable experience, you put yourself in better position to have a better team in March. Not a unique concept.

Then you point to Travis asking why he hasn't progressed .. as if he hasn't. An easy possible answer for him not progressing to point you would suggest is a lack of experience, and time. Some guys need more time, Jaybate. How hard is that to figure out? But I recognize that he may not progress in time. There is a chance he might not work out and another plan might be in order.

I agree on the Self = God comment being somewhat of a strawman argument, depending upon who it is targeted to .. but the classic reply is "because Self said so" and that does not necessarily make it right, correct, or logical. Folks tend to make his word the definitive opinion, when Self is just a man who makes mistakes. You mentioned it was best argument in an earlier post. Playing Brady 20+ might be correct for what Self is seeking to accomplish, and it is that which I am questioning .. is he playing to have to win the next game on the schedule, or to win the National Championship.

Food for thought .. you're not a monologist? No need to name call.

AsadZ 8 years, 4 months ago

In today's story HCBS said that when he asked the players as to who are the toughest players , mentally on the court and not physically, players said Brady and Reed, two kids from KS. Something to be noted about these two kids and why HCBS has them in the starting line up.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Try this logic .. can we all agree Self is not infallible? That he is not God? With that agreed, Self might actually make some mistakes. What are those? Anyone? The underlying "mistake", I believe, is that Self plays too much for the game at hand. He is so concerned about losing the game at hand that he is putting a ceiling on this team by refusing to play players that could bring better returns than, well, Brady. That's why he yanks Releford; that's why EJ gets 8 minutes last game despite playing well; it's a comfort zone.

100s points on Brady crystalize this point .. Brady is the safe pick. It is that easy. Self sees others as being the primary players (Marcus, Markieff, TT, and Selby on Saturday), and Brady's has a lower likelihood of screwing that up. Of course, EJ and Releford have more upside, but that would involve risk.

And my friends, Self is a conservative coach. How hard is that to see? That's all it is. This whole Brady debate is incapsulated in that thought. He is averse to risk. He would rather play the sure thing, the low risk, vs. the potential of "freshman"-like mistakes, right? Even if it involves higher upside. Perhaps he just can't stomach it. I don't know. This whole argument comes down to how much risk should we assume?

Does anyone disagree with the underlying premise .. Brady has peaked, or reached a plateau, and isn't really going to improve appreciably, and Releford and EJ, both, have significant room to grow and improve, thus a significant upside that exceeds Brady's current performance? Anyone disagree? My guess is we can agree generally on that.

So, please, don't go telling me that the "play Brady fewer minutes" crowd (which is the proper way to phrase it), is illogical. Risk .. vs. the safe bet. Risk .. vs. losing a game or two. Risk .. vs. being a better team in March. That's all this is about.

And Self is not God. Nor was Vince Lombardi. Nor was John Wooden. A couple of thoughts from John Wooden: "Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." A review of last season and the commitment to Brady might be worth reviewing. And perhaps on point, Wooden said, "I'd rather have a lot of talent and a little experience than a lot of experience and a little talent." Why is that? Talent can gain experience. Experience can't gain talent.

Remember, this is the same Brady that got benched last season. The same Brady that Self had on the bench to start the season, starting Releford. Logic. Use your brains. Why is Brady on the floor? He is safe. Is that what we want in March?

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

Ralster,

We are close on our feelings about Little, but i want him back and you would like to wait; that is a reasonable difference of opinion and you are aligned with Self, which is at least Prudent.

Regarding Brady, we disagree, but you make an noteworthy and logically valid empirical observation: his numbers are not as good as they used to be.

I have noticed this too, and I have wondered about it.

Your choice to use it as data supporting his demotion, assumes he has become a worse basketball player than 3 year.

I do not ever recall a player getting steadily worse at playing any game before, unless he were injured, or substance addicted, or in his late 30s/early 40s.

Brady does not appear injured. Beyond his DUI citation, which has not been repeated, he shows no sign of addiction that I can see. And he is not old enough to be declining from age.

So: I am forced to infer that his numbers are not going down because he is becoming progressively worse at playing the game.

In turn, it seems illogical to demote him.

So why are brady's numbers going down, if not from becoming a worse player?

What an interesting question you have triggered?!

This is why I so enjoy your comments. They make me think.

I keep coming back to EJ's best performance of the year...against Memphis...where he actually played the 3 and not the pg. In that game, his line score of his best performance to date looked remarkably like Brady's average line score for this season. Hmmmmm, I thought, could it be that Brady's lesser numbers this year are what coach Self seeks out of that position on the first unit this season?

Food for thought. :-)

Tuskin 8 years, 4 months ago

Hawk of Ages has it right. Brady is a senior who does many things well, and he's going to get the nod until someone else beats him out.

People seem to think that someone else should get the nod because they might get better more quickly that way. No. Once they've improved enough in practice, they'll get more minutes in games. Once they've proved themselves in games, they may get the nod over Brady.

And who are we talking about, who will beat out Brady? Elijah? I love him - he's got a terrific attitude, and he has some beautiful, jaw-dropping moves to the basket. I'm sure he knows that he has to become more solid on defense, though. I'm excited for this to happen, and I'm confident it will. He's still young. He'll get better.

Selby will be getting better on defense quickly, too, and pretty soon (or immediately) he'll be starting.

But, in the meantime, Brady has been filling an important role very nicely. Thanks, Brady.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 4 months ago

Brady stars...Brady sucks...I am sick of this playground " my thing is bigger than your thing" argument. Brady Morningstar is NOT the reason we win games or will lose them.

Consistent play of the twins. Minimizing the turnovers Improving the foul shooting...dramatically. Integrating the most talented player into the rotation Ratchet up intensity and focus Develope a killer instinct

Brady is effective against a certain level of opponent. When that opponent level of ability reaches outstanding to elite levels, his effectiveness drops dramatically. Do we have anybody better? Currently not that we know of....yet how do we know?

After Cal, we have three "scrimmages" at Allen. Maybe HCBS should try some different combinations...see what alternatives there may be down the line.

I simply and respectfully disagree with Jaybate and 100, whom I think are outstanding posters. But there is no question at the moment, he is the best we have, The question is can we do better?

Nonetheless, I will cheer for him as I do every Jayhawk, for a winning, hard-nosed performance every time. To do anything else is to lose sight of the big picture.

"NC #6".

100 8 years, 4 months ago

Oakville, actually it sounds like you & I agree. "The best we have at the moment."

As soon as EJ or Releford or anybody else beats him out on the three most important Bill Self stats to go along with smart basketball, we then can see someone else start at the 3.

I'm just giving the logic for why he's getting the time right now over the other players.

The Kansas basketball fact is: he does need to be beat out.

Those other players everyone is mentioning will indeed be very enjoyable to watch when they become reliable starters.

But we've also seen with Coach Self's teams, he wants his players on the court approaching perfection while on the court.

And defense to him might be the biggest stat.

I root for them all as long as they're wearing the crimson & blue.

Right now the best D comes from Brady.

If anyone can prove that fact wrong, I'm all for developing EJ & Releford in game action over Brady.

Until then, we keep winning using the Coach Self formula for winning the tough defense/ precious possessions/ good passing & quality shot selection game.

That's the way we win.

I think you & I pretty much see this the same way.

Rock Chalk

jaybate 8 years, 4 months ago

The architect and the coach distill it. It has been my assumption all along that Brady is the best at the moment. Whoever beats him out, if anyone does, will also be the best at the moment. I should have explained that more clearly, but the naives keep reducing this in their own minds to Brady lovers and Brady haters.

If it were up to me, I would kind of like to replace Brady with Paul Pierce, but I don't think the NCAA would go for this, do you?

I try to take what they give me (thesis and antithesis) and grind it out with them until some impact folks come with the synthesis.

Now haters, don't jump to the conclusion that jaybate is a Marxist, because he has just used dialectical logic. He isn't. But he is eclectic in drawing upon philosophical/analytical methods to get to the truth. Achieving recognition of the truth is both a process of finding the truth, and then building consensus as to its recognition.

And jaybate'll take whatever luck he can get along the way. :-)

Joe Baker 8 years, 4 months ago

HEM, Theutus and Ralster make good points. BStar is the safe and comfortable risk.

Thank God for JTrain Selby who waits for no one. He's a huge risk that is proving to pay dividends, LOL. This kid has no fear and will step up and shoot your "risk and comfort" all to pieces...LOL- If Self wants a safe and comfortable risk, Selby is not that, LOL - I love it!!! Selby proves what taking risks will do for a game. Self looked like he sweat bullets when Selby took that trey. Crap! I know I did because we've never had anyone like Selby, maybe Sherron/Rush. Collins wasn't quite as consistent as Selby will be going forward. Selby isn't wasting anytime and I LOVE it. We just need some players to be "glue" when we need it most. We can't depend on Selby like we did Collins. BStar has proven he will do some good things at times, but doesn't want the ball when it counts. Winners want the ball and Selby is a winner! Hmmm, who else wants to win?

I don't want to see McMorris praying on the freep-throw line like against UCLA, not against prayer, but it just looked like we didn't have a chance or Little could step up to make the winning FT. We need different players to step up when necessary. The confidence isn't there and this is what Self tends to create in players too often. If he wants Selby to be Collins-like, I hope he's more consistent than Collins. Self keeps saying, "He's got a lot of Sherron in him." I'd like to see them all step up because they all have the confidence and attitude of Selby. It's going to take pt to get EJ, Withey and Rel some major confidence. Rel was a flash against Arizona, will he do it again? I hope so...Selby didn't hesitate with his shots- I freakin' love it!!! I hope his attidue is highly contagious.

Jayandseahawk 8 years, 4 months ago

It's basketball. Players will make threes because they're in the zone. But by and large, I think Brady Morningstar is a heady, non-flashy player. I think he could be another one of those nondescript, 6th to 8th-man on an NBA team who always plays a strong defense, gets a single digit point total every game he plays, and has shut down or limit-the-damage defense of a team's star guard. Yeah, he's pretty good, just not flashy...what's the sports cliche? O yeah, he plays within himself.

Hank Cross 8 years, 4 months ago

HEM: "And my friends, Self is a conservative coach. How hard is that to see? That's all it is. This whole Brady debate is incapsulated in that thought. He is averse to risk. He would rather play the sure thing, the low risk, vs. the potential of "freshman"-like mistakes, right? Even if it involves higher upside. Perhaps he just can't stomach it. I don't know. This whole argument comes down to how much risk should we assume?"

Truer words were never spoken. This is the real essence of the Brady issue and why it points to deeper issues with not only this team, but also with Self. It's a given that he's a great teacher of defense and can recruit with the best, which enables him to have a record that 99% of the programs would kill for.

But, look back over just the past three years. How many games has KU been in where they jumped to a 10-15 point lead in the first half only to seem them caught in the second half. Good grief, if KU had not jumped out to such a big lead in the first half, who knows if they would've been able to hold off UNC in Nat'l Semi. In the Nat'l C, KU also had a first half lead and we all know what it took to get to OT.

Last year the Cornel game and the game at CU come to mind. This year both the UCLA and USC games came down to the last minute despite KU double digit leads in the first half.

And many people still wonder, 'Why can't we put lesser teams away?" as if they hadn't seen this same script pay out again and again. The answer is that the team isn't designed to blow out an evenly matched team. Can this system continue to pile up massive amounts of regular season wins? Obviously. Can it win another Nat'l C? It did it once and there is no reason to think it can't happen again. However, there is also no reason to think another Bradley, Bucknell or UNI won't happen again.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 4 months ago

Oxical - This is clearly a divisive topic. But your analysis of what happens to conservative coaches is dead-on. Defensive oriented coaches, in any sport, create a smaller margin of error .. it works better in football, for example, because the margin of error cannot be overcome by one hot-shooting player. The UCLA game was the perfect example, as you pointed out.

And basketball is the game most determined by the hot shooting hand .. and when one cools a bit, and another heats up, one might want a player on the floor that can change that momentum, not a guy that is known for making crisp passes around the perimeter.

Hank Cross 8 years, 4 months ago

And that's what happened with the UNI game. KU struggled in offense while UNI did not and KU did have a weapon to change the dynamic.

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

What 3pt shooting streak of Tyshawn's are you talking about? He hadn't made, and only took four, three pt shots in the last 4 games before UNI. Check the box scores.

KULA 8 years, 4 months ago

Perfect analysis from oxcal & HEM on Bill Self and his coaching style. Add to that, teams & players adopt the attitudes and demeanor of their coaches, and you end up with a team full of players afraid to fail in crunch time instead of rise to the occasion. Guys who wanna pass the ball instead of shoot it with the game on the line.

Bill's coaching style doesn't build confidence in his players because he doesn't show confidence in his players. "He doesn't even trust me to be in the game in crunch time--what's he gonna do if I miss the big shot?" It's intangible, but it's as real as the hard wood. Which player's coach built, instilled, engendered more confidence in him, the one who jacks a 3, against all logic, with a one point lead with 40 seconds left, that turns out to nail the coffin shut...or the one who's praying?

Keep playing it safe Bill, and keep going home early in March, until you score another recruiting coup and field a team with five or six or seven NBA caliber players.

Steve Brown 8 years, 4 months ago

you Brady Bashers, can't wait for him to graduate so we can start a record breaking AFH home win streak. Oh wait...

Kentucky. Cornell. Northern Iowa. To win you need talent or experience. In order to win big you need both talent and experience. While I don't like Northern Iowa resutls or Cornell pushing us to the brink I can appreciate the 'seasoned' team advantages. Some of you would like to be last year's Kentucky every year, loads of #1 Freshman talent, some of us appreciate the Kentucky stars, yet also appreciate the Pete Newell Rhode Island experienced season team approach. Sure Reed & Brady won't be NBA #1 like Rose, Wall, X, Selby, yet they have big time platinum college talent and more than that, they are seasoned, tough and make the team better when they are on the floor.

In March, the big dance, under two minutes left we are down 6, we need a presss a steal, a bucket and a stop, I hope Reed & Brady are on the floor helping TT & Selby, talent and experience.

Vincent Patterson 8 years, 4 months ago

Jaybate - You just lost all credibility and I'm glad I didn't bother wasting time with the rest of your novels on this page. Come on dude - Selby should play with the second team???!! You've had some decent arguments in the past but you must have been DRUNK when you posted that! That is ridiculous. Just watch as the season progresses, you will eat those words.

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