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Wednesday, September 16, 2009

Keegan

Duke strikes a nerve

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The game had been played, the trip completed and still the song looped in my head. The more I tried to think about something else, the louder it roared, bringing pressure from the top of head down on my eyes, slightly blurring my vision.

“Out in the West Texas town of El Paso,” blared Marty Robbins over and over and over. It completely drowned out everything else up there: The bitter memories of strokes wasted on the golf course, the vast expanses of air, the gutter, Neil Young guitar licks from “Words,” the sound of North Carolina’s Four Corners offense in the 1977 title game backfiring through the decades. Everything.

Just as I was on the verge of being driven — some might contend it’s a short walk — to the brink of madness, it vanished. Inner peace at last? Not quite. It has been replaced by an even more annoying sound, a distinctly nasal one, accompanied by the blue face of the devil himself.

“I don't look at myself as a basketball coach,” the condescending voice loops. “I look at myself as a leader who happens to coach basketball.”

Mere mention of the word Duke, or even a glimpse of it on a Kansas University football pocket schedule, triggers the nasally sound of Mike Krzyzewski pitching for American Express, seemingly apologizing for carrying the label basketball coach, as if it’s beneath someone who has so much of great import to offer the world.

Strangely, or maybe understandably, Coach K is the figure who makes this more than just another nonconference game in which the main trick is for the players from the home team to get up for the opponent or risk having to pick eggshells out of their eyebrows for the rest of autumn.

Outside of the Duke fan base, Krzyzewski isn’t so much a love-or-hate-him figure as he is a dislike-him-intensely-or-hate him sports celebrity.

Roy Williams, since fleeing Lawrence for Chapel Hill, has so dominated Tobacco Road he has relegated Coach K to relative unimportance, but the guess here is that echoes of the American Express commercial still resonate to the extent the Kansas students, who infuse so much energy into Memorial Stadium throughout the first half of games, will stay seated for the entire game to boo Krzyzewski by booing the football players.

They also can boo two quarterbacks for the price of one. Duke coach David Cutcliffe announced that Thaddeus Lewis will start against KU, but it was Sean Renfree (7 of 8, 106 yards, two touchdowns), who came off the bench midway through the third quarter and led Duke to a 21-point fourth quarter in a 35-19 victory against Army. Reading about Renfree elevating the Blue Devils for a quarter begs the question of where Todd Reesing, offered a scholarship by Duke, would have taken that school’s football program had he gone there.

Would Coach K have enjoyed that as much as Bill Self has enjoyed watching Reesing juice KU football? Self, a native of Edmond, Okla., grew up rooting for and against teams with a Billy Bob at quarterback. He loves KU football and Mangino loves what KU basketball does for his recruiting. One day, maybe they could do an American Express commercial together.

Comments

BlueUmbrella 10 years, 4 months ago

Back when I was at KU, anyone who so much as mentioned Duke got punched in the face. I don't know if you can say that now.

chezlog 10 years, 4 months ago

I totally agree with your sentiment, Keegan. Krzyzewski's little crooked mouth belongs at a school with a devil as the mascot. I've always been a KU football fan and I love it that the Jayhawks are starting to get respect for being more than just a basketball school. Duke folks on the other hand, console themselves by believing that they get the same respect as an Ivy league school for their academics. It's a falsehood of course but Duke people believe it. Some wienie reading this post believes it also and will want to challenge my point but don't bother. I've heard the evidence and it's unconvincing. Just ask yourself one question - if they were a great school academically, why do they accept so many witless ninnies as students? Scheduling a football match-up with Duke was a great move. We already hate them and we have an excellent opportunity to spank the devil out of them.

Billy Derringer 10 years, 4 months ago

IT WOULD BE FUN TO PLAY A COUPLE SCHOOLS IN FOOTBALL THAT WE HATE IN BASKETBALL i.e. UNC-UK-DUKE-MEM-UCLA-UCONN-----IT WOULD BE FUN TO KICK THE SHT OUT OF THEM IN BOTH SPORTS. ------AND ON ANOTHER NOTE WHY THE HELL ARE WE NOT CLIMBING THE POLLS LIKE OTHER TEAMS ARE WE ARE 2-0 AND RETURN A HELL OF ALOT OF PLAYERS FROM LAST YEAR---CANT WAIT TO PLAY A BIG GAME SO WE CAN GET SOME RESPECT....

HERES A HARD QUESTION WHO IS GOING TO BE HARDER TO REPLACE ONE DAY -GOD FORBID--HCMM OR HCBS

Dirk Medema 10 years, 4 months ago

MM hasn't won a NC, nor has he recruited AA. No comparison, tho there is also no comparison in where their programs were at when they started much less now.

Playing unc-uk-duke-mem-ucla-uconn would be great. I'm also psychd that we'll play GTech the next 2 years.

waywardJay 10 years, 4 months ago

it always great when you can associate one sports team to another sports hated franchise.... In basketball... though the tigers and wildcats are up over the last 2-3 years... we still don't much have a rivalry there..... we consistantly beat them year in and out.... it's teams outside that have sparked rivalry for us.....

Memphis With Calipari Kentucky with or without North CArolina with or without Roy... Arizona with Lute UCLA.... Duke.... MIchigan State....

These are the teams that our fans love to hate ( We just plain hate mizzou, to the point htere is little pleasure in it )

Seeing their football programs, at such a basketball school, Is indeed a great way to get our Basketball Fanbase supporting our football squad..... And since we can't get any of the above mentioned to play us at Allen, why not get them on soon to be name Mark Mangino Field @ Memorial Stadium..... ( i think he's earning the honor as we speak )

Another one i would like to see happen is Illinois, after all their coach DID have a mock Funeral for Bill and Illinois fans STILL hate Self for leaving.

Rivethead 10 years, 4 months ago

There is no question who would be more difficult to replace: Mark Mangino.

Coach Mangino took over a program that had ONE division-1 caliber football player on the roster (this per Coach Stoops who attended the first football workout under the Mangino era). One player. One. At a school with very little football tradition, he turned that one player into a program that won a BCS bowl game (which many say is the football equivalent to reaching the Final Four in bball).

Coach Self, on the other hand, inherited a program with incredible tradition (so strong, it almost sells itself) with plenty of talent on the roster. Really, for KU to continue it's baskeball tradition, all it really needs is a fundamentally sound coach who is a decent salesman. Our history and tradition will do the rest.

Blake Post 10 years, 4 months ago

I slightly disagree with some teams on various "nemisis" lists here.

Number one all time was Kentucky. Hated them. Then came the unjust loss to duke in 1986. Manning's last phantom foul, bad refs, Archie getting hurt after being very effective. That is one of my top two or three best KU teams, and the start of my hate for Duke.

Number ones I want to beat every time and jazz them now are: Duke, Kentucky, UCLA, Syracuse

two's are teams like Michigan State (beat them on the way in '88, so not a one) Arizona (loss in 97?) anyone we lost to but should not have... utep, rhode island, etc

memphis is not even close

North Carolina is not in the category. It is the brother school. Our man Dean is a legend there. He sent us Larry, who got us the championship, and Roy, who almost did. (and fortunately not Matt Doherty, who didn't do so well there). Too many connections to be otherwise. If we don't win, I'm rooting for NC. Yeah, that's right. And I saw Roy rooting for us when they didn't win.
I didn't panic or blame when Roy went home. KU will always get a top coach, and it seems to me we are just fine now. In fact, these may turn out to be the best times in KU history. Last year stupid media threw us in with an anchor early yet we won the Big 12. 08 was a dream. There is much more to come. Can't wait.

Right now... Duke must die.

John Boyle 10 years, 4 months ago

"Really, for KU to continue it's baskeball tradition, all it really needs is a fundamentally sound coach who is a decent salesman. Our history and tradition will do the rest." With that kind of arrogance, it's a wonder anybody outside of Lawrence would root for the Jayhawks. We are blessed with a tremendous tradition but don't think for a moment that it would just take a "fundamentally sound coach" to keep us on top. There are thousands of fundamentally sound coaches out there who never get their programs to the top. And believe it or not there are schools with great traditions out there besides KU. We have been fortunate to have three coaches in a row with tremendous abilities. Each very different in how they accomplish things but all very effective at keeping the program at the top. Ted Owens was a very good fundamentals coach but we slipped mightily in his last few years in Lawrence.

Rivethead 10 years, 4 months ago

Sorry, I don't view it as arrogrance. It's a fact. 25 conference championships in 50 years goes a long way in making kids have the desire to play for Kansas.

741hawk 10 years, 4 months ago

What do Duke football and KU football share in common?

An eight lane track inside their stadiums that separate their fans from the action! What an embarassment. Are you checking this board, Lew?

What's the only other BCS school with a track inside their football stadium?

Answer: Washington. Gawd.

Hey, Lew. It's time you threw a bone to the average fan (vs suites for "big donors" and courtside season tickets). Tear out the track, lower the field and add seven rows of good seats.

While I understand that we just put in a new football surface and need to get the new track built, this is all a part of planning. We've heard no announcement that Lew is even considering this expansion concept.

Ben Kane 10 years, 4 months ago

love the mangino field idea, but he isn't there yet...

Rick Arnoldy 10 years, 4 months ago

Who else would you name it after, Chuck. With an average tenure of about 3 years for KU football coaches, it's hard to come up someone who's done more for KU football.

Rick Arnoldy 10 years, 4 months ago

"Then came the unjust loss to duke in 1986. Manning's last phantom foul, bad refs, Archie getting hurt after being very effective."

They weren't even on my radar screen until that game. Hated'em ever since. And they kept fueling the fire with Laettner, Hurley, The Weasel, etc.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 4 months ago

Rivethead...I love your passion and share your recogntion of the Conf. Champs. but for today's young ball players, it's all about "The Big Show"...how many Big Mondays is the school on, Selection Sunday and NCAA invitations, Playing Time on TV and a chance at the NBA.

Conference championships are merely a means to get to an end, having been further diminshed by Conference Tourney Championships. Unfair, not right, totally misplaced but simply, the sad truth!!

kvskubball 10 years, 4 months ago

Hey Rivet...

I agree with you that MM would be harder to replace, and agree with your reasoning. KU football doesn't have the same cachet/prestige that our basketball program does, so logically it would be harder to find a really good football coach that would be as likely to want to come to KU and be able to succeed, than it would be to find a really good basketball coach who wanted to come to KU to coach.

But I still do take issue with your pounding me for saying that I thought we would 'only' score 34 points against UTEP! You called me to task for saying I didn't think we would score more. How many points did we score against UTEP???

My prediction for the score this week??? KU runs wild and passes and keeps passing Duke at home! We will even 'Pick' it up! I see our second strings playing a lot (and OPerating like a first string against Duke), unless coach has a third string to put in. I see our team looking like a bunch of MCD's all-stars! Our defense should have little trouble with an offense that couldn't even generate 300 yards of offense against Army. I see the team coming home with a huge boost of confidence off of a very good "road victory"! (Wow, we haven't been able to say that much!)

Did you catch the references to our 3 great skill position freshmen? Pick, OP, McD!!!

The future looks bright, but it will have to be really great to 'feel' much better than after we pound the Dookies in football. Hopefully we'll get to double-up when the NCAA tourney rolls around.

There really is no place like home! Rock Chalk!

KU 52 Duke 9 -- PS...If we don't have a 3rd string, it may be worse. (And wouldn't that be just terrible?) ;)

ku_foaf 10 years, 4 months ago

Hate Coach K? Why? You can hate them in a competitive way, just because they are Duke, sure, and we compete for players and tournament advancements. But really calling him a bad guy? He's just not. Neil Daugherty played for coach K at Army for a year. I'm sure he'd say he's a great guy. I can't say I've every seen him act like a jerk in the last 25 years I've been watching him ... unlike his mentor!

tennesseest 10 years, 4 months ago

741Hawk-

In order to lower the field we first have to build a new track facility. Seriously, I'm not trying to patronize you, but THINK! So, in addition to the costs of building a new track facility, we then have to pay to 1. tear the track and field out, 2. remove the enourmous rock benieth the field(not cheap AT ALL), 3. build a lower section on to the stadium and 4. put the field back into place. Haha, seriously, unless some donor antes up and donates a solid 25-50 million, that option is not going to happen. And in this economic climate, please point out the guy willing to donate that kind of cash.

On a side note 741, I'm not sure about your Washington fact. I think I remember a track around the boise st. field as well, but I can't remember exactly.

kvskubball 10 years, 4 months ago

tennessee..

I was going to call 741 on that too, but he did say "BCS" schools. Boise State is on the outside looking in on that one.

However, Boise State does have a track, and IMO it really doesn't detract from their football venue. It is blue like the rest of the field, so maybe it's easier on the eyes being all the same color. Or for some, maybe they think having the combo of a functional track/football venue is somehow not sophisticated or elitist enough for them.

I think that if our football team can sustain and keep building on our success for more than a decade, all kinds of possibilities may arise! I kind of see our football program as something akin to the Jefferson's of TV sitcom fame. We're starting to get a piece of the pie, and someday hopefully we'll be able to move up to the east side! Allen Fieldhouse wasn't envisioned, planned and built in a day, month, year, or even in a single decade! It came about because of several decades of success in basketball.

And let's not forget that track &field has been, at least historically, a really successful athletic program at KU. (Even if it hasn't and probably won't ever be a sport that generates positive revenue!)'

Michael Leiker 10 years, 4 months ago

I cannot wait for the return Duke trip in 2011. Hopefully we meet in the tourney again before that trip so we will have something to rub in their face...besides of course a football arse pounding from Sept '09.

Question - how much would you pay (or, what would you do) for tickets to KU @ Cameron

Me - liquidate my 401k

Dirk Medema 10 years, 4 months ago

TN - Thanks for the response. Personally, I'm tired of hearing the whiners complain about the track. It is part of our situation. It's not an easy fix. Deal with it and in the meantime stop clogging the blog with the ignorance. If you want an answer from Lew, call him. You'll probably get more of a response than you deserve.

Jonathan Briles 10 years, 4 months ago

I agree that it may be very expensive to remove the track and lower the field, but I think it would be great and hopefully we might be able to at least think about it and make some plans though.

Something that is not out of reach though is making the bowl taller. If we made the bowl even with the two sides that would make a ton more seats and make our capacity pretty respectable. I hope that we NEVER close the stadium because that hill should never be blocked but add more seats on top of the current bowl would be a great idea in my opinion.

Dirk Medema 10 years, 4 months ago

Rivet - We're answering the same questions from opposite ends. KU BB is obviously a much more attractive destination, because some great, more than servicable, coaches have made it that way over the years. IMO, there's not another BB coach out there that can recruit and manage a team as well as Coach Self. Roy is close, especially at home, but without the D.

Coach Mangino has done a remarkable job building KU FB out of very little, but there are other coaches out there that are building programs. Do I want to try any of them anytime soon? No chance.

All that being said, I'd also wait until we have had success with more than one QB before completely annointing the program. History (more than FB) is riddled with one, maybe 2 leader, organizations that have failed under the successor. We'll see next year how that goes with QB. Hopefully, we have a ways to go before seeing how that plays out on the HC perspective.

Jeff Worthington 10 years, 4 months ago

Look at what old man Snyder did at KSU. Built-up a very bad program, had them as a regular in the top 25, some years the top 10. He leaves for 3 years and they go to the Texas Bowl and then 2 losing seasons. KSU is now a non-factor in the Big 12. I hate to say it, but if Mangino ever leaves, that could be us.

If Self leaves, we get a very high profile coach to take his spot. The basketball team will continue to succeed, maybe not win a conference championship every year, but still be a national title contender most seasons.

So my vote is for Mangino, don't ever leave us!

rcgd 10 years, 4 months ago

I graduated from KU (BS Mech Eng) and Duke (MBA) so I had to get over (among many things) the 1991 NCAA Finals (a moment of silence, please). As a Jayhawk first, my wife can attest to the fact that watching Kansas Basketball, and lately football, is participation event in my house.

However, I'd like to clarify some things:

  1. Duke is an elite university: US News ranking between 4 and 10 and ranked #13 in the world by the Times Higher Education Survey.
  2. Duke did have a strong football tradition: Wallace Wade Stadium hosted the 1942 Rose Bowl. Kind of like KU's in the 1960s with Gayle Sayers or Bobby Douglass
  3. UNC is NOT a "brother school of KU": "Our man Dean" persuaded Roy (after multiple tries) to leave Kansas
  4. UNC fans (I know plenty of them) would not really cheer for KU... if they are, they're only pretending.
  5. UNC and UK both can go to hell... and so can journeyman Larry Brown
  6. Most of the image of Duke basketball was manufactured and has been leftover from the 1990s... like Vanilla Ice.
  7. Coach K is a West Point man and a leader of men
  8. Traditions are not certain to perpetuate, they must be honored and maintained
  9. Cameron Indoor is a special place to watch a college basketball game
  10. Allen Fieldhouse is the BEST place to watch a college basketball game

I agree with Maxhawk: neither Duke nor KU has a history of "one-and-dones". Just two traditional basketball schools trying to get a piece of the football spotlight. I prefer to focus on Mizzou, K-State, ANY Texas school (Remember, they didn't join the Big 8, the Big XII is a new league that both Big 8 and SWC schools formed-please!)... or the SEC.

Rock Chalk.

tennesseest 10 years, 4 months ago

dihrdhwk86- No, not right now, not enough money.

Rivethead 10 years, 4 months ago

kvskubball:

You were right on the UTEP score - I was overconfident in our offense. Who knew that Todd Reesing would play drunk?

I did like the name play and I did notice it. I'll go out on a limb (?) and say that Rell Lewis scores his first TD as a Jayhawk.

As far as tracks. Didn't USC used to have a track around their field just a few short years ago (a track that actually hosted Olympic events)?

Are we even sure we CAN lower the field? I've heard different theories on that. The one about the high water table sounds believeable though. It may make it cost-prohibitive.

OakvilleJayawk: I hear what you're saying, but I'm not ready to write off the tradition of the past vs the glamour of today. There are still kids out there like Wayne Simien (yeah, I probably spelled that wrong - shoot me) who would prefer tradition over SI cover photos.

Eurekahwk 10 years, 4 months ago

I'm finding it hard to hate a team with fleeting success. Yes, Duke is still winning close to 30 games a year, and they still get the McAAs. But,they don't even win their conference anymore, they barely make it past the Sweet Sixteen. And they only have McAAs because the players commit long before they receive this designation. In other words, the McAA committee is just lazy and lets K and Roy decide who the best players are. And they just go with those guys.

Let's just stick to the fooball game. We really should just empathize with these Duke gridiron guys that no one on their campus cares about them and they play in a HS sized stadium.

gardenjay 10 years, 4 months ago

Eureka has a point - Duke fans are probably even more tunnel-visioned than KU fans, since we have some good football to look back upon.

I was wondering how many Duke fans might show up Saturday, and if they will still head to Allen first to get oriented.

741hawk 10 years, 4 months ago

Engineering studies done in the early 90's show that it can be done with the resulting seven added rows; 7,000 added seats. The perfect next addition. Past Chancellor Hemenway and Lew are aware of the study.

By the way . . .the FIRST addition to OU's Owen Field (after they built the sideline stands) was to take out the track! (1949!)

CheneyHawk 10 years, 4 months ago

At the Final Four in Dallas (Reunion Arena) in Dallas in '86, the Duke fans were most obnoxious, spoiled and rude fans I had encountered this side of Missouri. I was embarrassed to be Methodist at that point...

Billy Derringer 10 years, 4 months ago

all i can say is that in all reality, if ku was to lose HCMM it would be a dark day for are football success, i give HCMM more credit for the success of the wildcat turn around then i do to there 100 year old coach- he was the lead recruiter for that team and dont I think that he gets his just due for what he did for them, not to memtion the o.c. at ou when they won the N.C., hell look what he did with josh freaken hypel that kid had no arm strenth at all but mangino built a system to make him a damm hero in oklahoma, It takes what 3 maybe 4 good to great players to turn a basketball team around, and takes probley 25-30 good football players to turn a football team around, now getting them is one thing but to coach a bunch of 2--3--star players and make them consistant winners is one hell of a job and something i think is way harder to do then taking cream of the crop kids like are bb team gets and making them shine. Hands down if we lose HCMM we lose are general

Ben Kliewer 10 years, 4 months ago

Everyone knows that Memorial Stadium's field is Kivisto Field. Named, of course, after a green, tentacle headed Jedi in the Star Wars prequel trilogy.

kvskubball 10 years, 4 months ago

kleave,

What do ya know? I thought it was the glowing orange one.......green? huh??? Who'd a thunk it?

waywardJay 10 years, 4 months ago

Kleave.... At current rate, i think even Kivisto would accept renaming the field after mangino...someday....

s6u6r6f 10 years, 4 months ago

rcgd suggests that "journeyman Larry Brown" can go to hell. Would he also suggest that Coach Brown take his championship with him? Rock Chalk.

KANSTUCKY 10 years, 4 months ago

"Rat" Krysweinerschnitzelski is a crybaby, pompous (insert explicative) that can't manage to get past the 3rd round with the vast majority McD's AA's. His attitude is reflected in the players he recruits and I love to watch them lose early and often. Also,it was fun to see UNC win the Championship last year because we felt so sorry for them after the beat down of '08. 2010 Jayhawks Rock Chalk Shell Shock.

labbadabba 10 years, 4 months ago

I don't understand the UNC sympathizers here.

For all I care, the entire state of North Carolina can fall off a cliff and take the ACC with it.

Rivet -

HCMM is irreplaceable at this point. If he can maintain success for another 10 years we might be able to pull in a top CFB coach after he retires. But if the dude has a heart attack tomorrow or replaces Joe Paterno next year we're effed.

However, I think HCBS deserves a little more credit. I don't think even with KU's tradition that any solid fundamental coach would cut it. HCBS has worked his behind off in recruiting. Roy had some good classes but have we ever had classes like we did in 2005, 2006, and 2009?

I'm all for getting rid of the track. But the poster who made the point that AFH was not built in a day makes a good point. Let's maintain our track record of success in FB and then we'll look at major renovations.

DOOK sucks.

rcgd 10 years, 4 months ago

s6u6r6f: I would suggest that Larry Brown take his NCAA sanctions with him as well... The lone blight on an exemplary tradition at Kansas. I am sure that UMass and Memphis, as will soon Kentucky (well maybe not Kentucky, they just don't care) wish they never heard the name John Calipari. I am not comparing LB to JC directly, just that winning (even reaching the Final Four) with those consequences isn't worth it.

I live in Detroit and watched LB bring a championship back here... It's all Larry, all the time. I have never seen such a disingenuous display of character. Especially the following year and a half. Arguably one of the best X and O's coaches ever, but come on... I imagine, he was the same way in Lawrence during his tenure. The media and ESPN did a great job of showing LB's true colors here... and what a bang up job he did in NY to follow.

Remember the 1988 team had an 18-11 regular season and was likely NIT bound except for winning the Big 8 tournament. Do you think it was coaching or did Danny Manning put the team on his back to allow a 6 seed to win it all? You be the judge.

Larry Brown coached five seasons at Kansas: Two Final Fours and an NCAA title... and NCAA sanctions and the inability to defend in 1989. What a shame.

Mangino is building something really good here and sustainable... much better than the false glimpses of hope under Glen Mason.

tennesseest 10 years, 4 months ago

s6u6r6f-

Extremely well said!

ROCK CHALK!

tennesseest 10 years, 4 months ago

741-

What don't you understand? It's not about lack of vision, it's completely about the lack of $50 million to spare. Come on man.

Dirk Medema 10 years, 4 months ago

rcgd - Have you watched the '88 CG or the other 2 games leading up to it? I don't think there is another coach alive that could have done what Larry did. It is amazing. My wife use to wonder about me rewatching the games (we weren't married in '88, so she didn't watch with me) until she got to see it.

The team was 18-11 because of an amzing number of injuries, ineligibilities, ... that impacted the team. Heck, Larry even recruited FB players just so that the team could scrimmage, then used one of the FB players to lead the team for significant minutes to beat OU. Brent & Billy referred to it as the unknown Jayhawk, because Larry did it over and over again with different role players throughout the tourney. I don't think there is another coach alive that could have done it. Maybe Wooden.

I will side with you in that I was pretty furious when I heard that he left for San Antonio (?) on the eve of the sanctions. That being said, I've also relaxed on that a bunch in recent years when I've heard his remorse at leaving what he has come to learn was an amazing destination. He restored KU BB after it had fallen into disarray during the final 5 to 10 years under Coach Owens. Larry & Roy are both responsible for making KU the destination job that it is, and thereby the reason that we have the best college BB coach. Both have shown support for KU BB, and Roy took plenty of heat for it, and therefore both deserve respect - IMO.

rcgd 10 years, 4 months ago

dagger108: I gave LB all respect as one of the best x's and o's coaches in history. I simply said that I would leave it open to debate which is ultimately responsible for the '88 NCAA's. After all that team is known as "Danny and the Miracles".

What if those sanctions would have resulted in vacating victories and the championship? KU is already the ONLY NCAA basketball program that was unable to defend it's title. How would you feel about LB then? When I go to Ann Arbor with my Michigan friends, it always makes me sad to think about how they had to rewrite their basketball history because of violations. Reputation and tradition are built over years (or decades) and destroyed in seconds.

LB's behavior in Detroit was appalling and obviously fake... I don't know how much I would take his remorse as genuine. Even with the NBA championship... he isn't much liked here.

I will always love and respect Roy Williams. He did elevate KU to another winning level. His passion for his teams and KU was amazing. As a Duke alum ... well you know: That's Duke-UNC.

Hating on Duke football, a team that has won 9 or 10 games in the last 6 years, for basketball seems a little silly. Last year was an up year... with 4 wins.

KU will win this game big... probably lots of SportsCenter worthy footage for the Hawks... and it still won't make a rivalry.

Rock Chalk.

s6u6r6f 10 years, 4 months ago

rcgb,

You would like Coach Brown to go to hell with his sanctions but, one assumes, want his championship to remain here. You give credit to Danny (and his teammates) for the championship but, one assumes, give Coach Brown no credit for the recruitment. These seem fine hairs you are trying to split. Then you ask how one would feel if something that didn't happen would have happened. I can do that: what if, after the championship, all KU students and grads suddenly woke up to find their bank accounts had grown by millions - oh, hell, we're living in fantasyland here - billions of dollars, they all had flying cars that were fueled by sunshine and rain, and they all lived on the big rock candy mountain? How would you feel about LB then?

Rock Chalk

rcgd 10 years, 4 months ago

s6u6r6f:

KU could have been issued the "Death Penalty" as a result of the recruiting violations because of two major infractions (Football in 83 and Basketball in 86) in a five year penalty:

This is for the recruiting that occured on LB's watch. We don't have to give LB credit for recruiting, the NCAA has already done that for us... and KU picked up the bill.

UCLA had to vacate it's place in the 1980 NCAA title game (which it lost to Louisville) for violations under LB's watch. Great coaching job, though with a freshman laden team. UCLA picked up the bill on that one.

See the pattern? Vacating a title game at UCLA, Death Penalty possibility at KU ...

Since the player in question didn't enroll or play at KU, maybe vacating might not have been an option... who knows for sure... I am not on the NCAA committee... but one thing is for sure, we are the only school to be forbidden to defend its title.

Money and big rock candy mountain... not so much. I do hear that big rock candy mountain is a hobo's paradise, though... sounds nice.

As a Kansan and KU Alum, I love KU. Winning that way isn't worth it... We are not Kentucky, UMass or even Memphis. We are the home of James Naismith, Phog Allen and one of the four winningest traditions in college basketball history. UNC and Kentucky rise came from Kansas Basketball, 1957 Championship game notwithstanding.

Those who think carrying on tradition is easy, look at Indiana.

I am being clear here... LB was not a good thing for KU. Championship or not.

ROCK CHALK.

rcgd 10 years, 4 months ago

Larry's heart was at UCLA:

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-11-10/sports/sp-235_1_larry-brown

Great coach to hold in such high esteem. Thirteen coaching stops over his career.

UCLA wanted him back after the 1980 incident. Speaks volumes about their integrity.

Amazing what sports fans and universities will suffer for our myopic obsession with winning.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

Did y'all see Coach Brown for the David Robinson HOF induction? He looked great!

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