Saturday, September 12, 2009

KU hoops barbecue on tap



Joe Jackson, a 5-foot-11 senior point guard from White Station High in Memphis, on Friday orally committed to the University of Memphis. He chose Memphis over KU and Tennessee. ... KU coach Bill Self today will hold an in-home visit with Brandon Knight, a 6-3 senior point guard from Pine Crest High in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

Guests at tonight’s Bubbles and Barbecue benefit for Community Living Opportunities’ Midnight Farm will be treated to brisket, chicken and sausage, Kansas University hoops style.

Former Missouri State head basketball coach Barry Hinson, who is in his second season as KU’s director of external relations, will be doing the cooking — and several of KU’s players the serving — for more than 200 individuals attending the event.

The feast is designed to help showcase the farm, which is located seven miles south of Eudora and a mile west.

“I was a Div. I head coach for 11 years. Now I’m a cook. I’m head coach at ‘Barbecue U,’’’ Hinson cracked.

His claim to fame as a chef was the day he used his 14-foot-by-6 double-door trailer smoker to cook barbecue for George W. Bush on a day the former President of the United States was in Springfield, Mo. — home of Missouri State — for a speech.

“He didn’t speak until 11:30 (a.m.), and I had to have it to security by 8 o’clock,” Hinson said of the food. “The dogs had to sniff it.

“The funniest thing I’ve ever seen in my life is, the juice had fallen out of one side of the container, and the dog started licking it. The Secret Service said, ‘Hey, that’s the President’s barbecue. Get away from that,’’’ Hinson exclaimed.

The President enjoyed his meal.

“I got an autographed picture and was on the Christmas mailing list when he was President,” Hinson said. “I got more Christmas bulbs, Presidential M&M;’s. He took care of me after I fed him. It was kind of a neat deal.”

Hinson and the Jayhawks are happy to lend their support to the 40-acre Midnight Farm. It is a working farm run by CLO that provides programs and opportunities for adults and children with special needs. There are two houses on the property, where clients with disabilities live alongside a host family, experiencing the farm life. Plans call for two more houses to be built on the property in the future.

“Barry has done an incredible job embracing this. His enthusiasm is so contagious,” said Allison Frizell, one of those in charge of the event. “He’s been an amazing catalyst for the whole thing.”

Hinson, for instance, drove to Ponca City, Okla., to pick up 300 bottles of Head Country Barbecue sauce, which will be given to the attendees tonight. Like the Ponca City company, both Biggs BBQ and Vermont Street BBQ of Lawrence have also donated items for Hinson to use in the preparation of the food.

“It’ll be fun,” Hinson said. “We (he and his wife, Angie) are doing all the cooking. Our players will help me. I don’t know if I trust ’em to cook, but they’ll be pulling it off the trailer.

“They’ll be slicing and dicing. They’ll be ‘Roncoing’ it,” he said with a laugh.

For information on CLO and Midnight Farm visit this Web site.

Recruiting update

Joe Jackson, a 5-foot-11 senior point guard from White Station High in Memphis, on Friday orally committed to the University of Memphis. He chose Memphis over KU and Tennessee. ... KU coach Bill Self today will hold an in-home visit with Brandon Knight, a 6-3 senior point guard from Pine Crest High in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.


jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

I love KU basketball.

I love Bar-b-que.

This event is divine inspiration.

But please, god, let it be KC Style bar-b-que. Bring the men and women in from near the old Kansas City, those trained by Ollie and Bryant and the Rosedale folks, who can still remember bar-b-ques true legacy. Not some of the pale imitations that have spread like cheap designer suits the last 15 years.

Iced mugs.

White bread.

Coarse grade Frenchfries.

Sauce that can actually hurt you if you are not careful.

Real bones.

"I'm goin' ta Kansas City/ Kansas City here I come..." --Wilber Harrison

Tony Bandle 10 years, 4 months ago

Kansas City BBQ is great but it pales in comparision to St.Louie BluesBQ!!! Cheap meat simmered in a zesty suace of high octane spices for about three years with a side of baked beans, toasted raviolas, washed down with Ice Cold Bud and Ted Drewes Frozen Custard for desert. HMMMMMMM GOOD!!!!!!!

Tony Bandle 10 years, 4 months ago

OOPS, I mean dessert..although Ted Drewes tastes great in the desert as well!!!

Kyle Neuer 10 years, 4 months ago

St. Louis BBQ???? Give me a break. Lame lame lame. Off to Famous Dave's with you. Bleh.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago

You all knew it was coming!

If you think there is any "real" BBQ outside of Memphis, well..go suck a bone.

We won't even acknowledge that crap they call BBQ in Tarheel country. And, Texas BBQ, can stay in Texas..

I've eaten at Gates, Bryants, Zardas, KC Masterpiece, that place near Union Station and in JC, and a bunch of others. Good imitations, but not close to what Memphis has to offer.

On Joe Jackson. We won't have to worry about him. Memphis will never schedule KU again. He will wallow in Conference USA and we'll be just fine without him.

Redlandsjhawk 10 years, 4 months ago

Oakvillejhawk-- Good on ya sir. A pork steak and some Maulls BBQ sauce. Nothing better. I have been preaching the word of real barbeque here in California for many years. I have created many bbq/KU basketball fans here. Rock Chalk.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 4 months ago

Item #1 Anyone named after Michael Jackson's father needs to be avoided!!!

Item #2 Memhawk- good call on that Texas junk..hell, they don't even put beans in their chili. North Carolina has that mustard-based crap that must go good with collard greens or what ever other excuse they use for vegetables there. Memphis BBQ does deserve props for doing a darn fine job, but "BBQ" stand for "Basted and Burnt in a Quicksand of sauce"...St.Louis style!!!

Item #3 I love this site and all the contributors, from Jaybate to anthonyzal, "the Anti-Jaybate". I think someone could put any topic up and the challenge to discuss it related to KU sports in a humorous, clever, hilarious way would be met by this army of "Posters Supreme" [ from the Latin posterior supremus]

ANY TOPIC......bedpans, the Pythagarian Theorem, Paula Abdul, aardvarks......ANYTHING!!!! { Well, maybe not Paula Abdul!!]

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

In Which jaybate Educates on Bar-B-Que:

Either Kansas City bar-b-que has fallen on hard times (which it may well have since it has been 6 years since I've had any), and you folks have never tasted Arthur Bryants the way it was 30 years ago, have all been seduced by baby bar-b-que with the sweet sauces that swept up out of the Carolinas and Memphis like a victual equivalent of Nashville crap music and which has for all intents and purposes ruined bar-b-que, as Nashville extincted real country music.

Let me explain this to you whippers.

Real bar-b-que actually started in Kansas City. There were many false starts in other parts of the country. It came on the heels of Southern and Texas bar-b-ques. It was a brilliant synthesis of all that seemed then and in retrospect unprecedented. Arthur Bryant did it, or at least gets credit for it. I don't know who he learned from. I am sure there were some unsung ones before him.

But what happened in Kansas City bar-b-que was a food enlightenment of epic proportions. It was part of a bottom up cultural enlightenment of epic proportions, too. It included the birth of Kansas City barrel house piano, I suppose, and certainly the years of musical improvisation and development that occurred under Tom Pendergast's Territorial Bands that operated out of Kansas City; the musicians and singers and bands that played in the bottle clubs during prohibition and after and created the truly seminal Kansas City Jazz that went to NYC later and pushed popular music to a zenith of jazz that has not been seen since John Coltrane, inspired by Kansas City's Charlie Parker, brought down the curtain on the whole episode half a continent east with his saxophone like torrents of rain on a back door closing itself to a past that could not become the future any longer.

Suggesting Memphis bar-b-que is superior to Kansas City bar-b-que, at least the best of it, like Arthur Bryants, is like saying Memphis Blues are as good as KC Jazz. It is preposterous. Memphis' music never transcended its gin joint roots. KC Jazz raised jazz from folk music to a high art form. Suggesting Memphis bar-b-que is superior to Kansas City bar-b-que is as sacriligious and indefensible as saying Memphis Tiger basketball is superior to KU basketball. Even to hint at such a heresy is to temp the god of bar-b-que to strike one dead from a swift blow to the temple with the point end of a Hereford horn.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

Smoke house slave and hill billy hickory and plantation owners ribs with sweet sauces started down south, not bar-b-que.

Real bar-b-que is inextricably tied up with freedom, free manhood, with the heartland being a confluence of all kinds of forces of immigration, with what could come up the river, with what could come up the cattle trails and railroads, with the fault line between Caucasian Americans and African Americans living and resenting each other in a free place.

Why, the next thing some heathen is going to tell jaybate is that Texas bar-b-que is better than Kansas City bar-b-que.

Cowboy cooking mixed with Mexican cooking started in Texas, not bar-b-que.

Real bar-b-que, that is the purest, most exhalted advancement of the art that ever existed, occurred in Kansas City and reached its zenith in the restaurant of Arthur Bryant. There is no disputing this. The world is round, not flat. Bryants is (or at least was once upon a time) the apotheosis of bar-b-que. There are only persons who understand this and those that do not yet understand.

Arthur Bryant's bar-b-que was made by what I like to think of as African American crackers. These were men who were every bit as prejudiced against Caucasian Americans (CAs) as CAs were against African Americans (AAs). These were AA men who were determined to play the game on equal footing with CAs starting yesterday. When you walked into Arthur Bryant's bar-b-que you were dealing with men, not janitors, or maids, or day care persons. There were no diverted eyes. There was no "Yessuh, nossuh," there. There was also no posing. No shucking and jiving. There was "Whach ewe want?" There was as much arrogance and confidence in what they did, maybe even more, than in Eddies, or Plaza III, or the American Restaurant. The message was: this !@#$% is good. We know its good. We know you want it. We ain't bowin' down. We ain't askin' you to bow down. Just take it, give us your money, shut the !@#$%^ and eat. We cain't right every wrong in this world. We cain't change what happened. We cain't make the government act right, though since FDR first come here, and Harry followed, the long slow change has begun. We cain't make the corporations act right. But inside these walls, this is how it is gonna go down.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

Free men makin' food for free men, whether they like the looks of each other or not!!!! Here! Here's some meat. Slap! Here! Here's some sauce. This sauce don't make no excuses. It don't try to sweet talk you. It packs a serious punch. Not every man can eat this sauce. This sauce takes a man to eat it. A free man. A man that don't bow down to nobody. You may come in here thinkin' you bettern' somebody, but you put this food in yo' mouth and you find out what good is and then you'll know that you ain't no bettern' this food. And this food was made by me. Now go and get your iced beer mug. Here! you want fries? I'll give you fries!! Here! Here's all the bread a free man need give a free man with this food and this sauce. And the AAs and CAs ate it and they liked it and there was the moment that you were equalized by that food. And you realized equality had its place. It was not something to be feared. It was how it ought to be.

And so Arthur Bryants was a communion taken by free men. In the beginning, it was the only communion strong enough to save the souls of Americans riddled with racism IMHO. Grape juice and bread crums at the protestant churches weren't strong enough. Negro spirituals and Christian hymns wailed with two centuries full of agony weren't strong enough. Federal troops could open up a Little Rock, but they weren't strong enough to open the minds of black crackers and white crackers. Only commerce--only an equal trade--bones for fair consideration with open seating could build the kind of tiny bits of trust that would be needed to actually begin to bridge the color line. And food was the only kind of commerce that could be traded equally and readily then; that required you to come into another free man's world and open your mouth and taste reality.

Reality is full of pain and suffering, as well as goodness and excellence. It has some sweetness, but not much.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

Arthur Bryant's bar-b-que is to food what John Steuart Curry's John Brown mural is to painting. It is a terrible beauty that bears within it all the horror and all the magnificience of a people caught up in a struggle against very long odds to be free. The weak, the faint hearted, the genteel, those who value refinement and caution and comfort more than building a free country in which men and women stand equal and toe to toe under the colors and under the long shadows of the audaciously enlightened (and prejudiced) men who dared to institute a republic that would fitfully, often too slowly, but inexorably move citizens along the glacier path of human prejudice toward periodically new moraines of freedom and tolerance; these are the only persons who can truly appreciate and endure Arthur Bryants. Ya gotta want to be free and ya gotta want everyone else to be free and treated equal under the law and by their fellow citizens. You gotta want that, or even Arthur Bryant's bar-b-que cannot be recognized for how brilliant it is.

Duly constituted, representative government, when allowed to work, which it has essentially not been allowed to do since 9/11, is fierce in its conflicts, foul in its corruption, terrible in its compromises, but relentless in its breaking down of privileges and institutions that fight like hell to self perpetuate.

Arthur Bryant's bar-b-que was a democratic capitalist institution. His food was the epicurean art of that time. It wore you down sometimes. It was too intense sometimes. It was unflinching in what it expected of your tongue and your soul. It did not apologize. It did not pamper. Its only criterion of success was to integrate all the legacy strands of bar-b-que and alchemically transform them into something intolerant of pretense and fakery, intolerant of food snobs, intolerant of culture snobs, intolerant of Uncle Toms, intolerant of Limousine Liberals, intolerant of communists, intolerant of Klansmen, intolerant of Black Panthers, intolerant of everything but equality and the excellence that free men were capable of bringing to even the humblest of things.

Don't tread on me with talk of other bar-b-que.

You are merely talking about brown sugar and molasses and some hickory smoke meant to comfort you.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

Arthur Bryant's bar-b-que, the food, the restaurant, and the men who ran it, were everything great about America, everything great about democracy, everything authentic and truthful about what it takes for human beings to operate in diverse societies caught up in the only struggle that really matters--the struggle for equality and freedom under self-government in society requiring enterprise, and under the dark cloud of royalists and aristocrats constantly seeking restorations, oligarchs playing all sides against each other, corporate fascists with no ethic but serving a few stock holders, a military bureacracy that too often purges those officers that actually want to preserve and defend the USA constitution, churches that will sell out their flocks to become the political bases for opportunistic party politics, demogogues, communists, central bank totalitarians, and tin pot dictators they enable.

Even Calvin Trillin of upper middle class Kansas City and later of Yale and the New Yorker, even the wry, often cynical Calvin Trillin who mastered the role of playing the droll rube in the Big Apple, even Calvin Trillin who's statistically insignificant quantities of soulfulness had to be measured in atomic weights to even register, understood, accepted and proselytized for the unimpeachable truth: there was Arthur Bryant's bar-b-que and then there were a lot of other restaurants around the country that cooked ribs.

Trillin was wry and insightful enough to recommend not to eat at an Italian restaurant in any town without at least some Italians on their city council.

Calvin, white bread as he was, understood that food is not just a product of a cook. It is a product of a culture. McDonald's is a product of a corporate culture that doesn't care about anything but standardization. I'm not knocking Mickey Ds. It has its place.

I'm not knocking Memphis, or St. Louis, or Texas bar-b-que either. They have their places. They are what you eat when you come from a place that produces an Elvis, a Chuck Berry, or a Bob Wills. The bar-b-que from these places is entertainment, the bar-b-que equivalent of rock and roll and Texas Swing.

The bar-b-que from Kansas City, especially that from Bryants, is about freedom, democracy, and equality.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

Arthur Bryants was the KC Jazz of bar-b-que. It was the strand of cooking greatness equal to the strand of music greatness that was KC jazz. Bryant was to ribs what Parker was to the Sax. He laid down the terrible beauty, the beauty that was so pure and agonizingly excellent that not just everyone could stand it and no one could stand it every day. This is how the real thing is sometimes. The real thing is uncompromising. The real thing hurts a little along with being magnificient. The real thing is not franchise-able.

For truly great bar-b-que to evolve, you had to have several things: 1) mountainous piles of unused ribs from slaughterhouses in the early days with which many poor, but ambitious men could experiment on and which a good margin could be made at a cheap price during the experimentation; 2) a diverse population desperate for something other than increasingly less farm fresh food and then increasingly more corporate processed food and food materials lacking much taste at all; 3) a racially uneasy heterogeneity willing to rub shoulders with those different than them in dingy restaurants in order to get some real food; 4) an absense of poppy cock about the superiority of high brow cooking, which is often just crap given French names and a cream sauce; 5) defiantly free men doing the cooking, who understood the harrowing past of prejudice, and the cruel present of it, but who were determined to make what they could out of what freedom they had; 6) men doing the eating who had been to Paris in WWI and to the South Pacific in WWII and to the Yalu in Korea--men doing the eating who could not be kept down on the farm any longer; and 7) lots of cheap Oak and Hickory and other kinds of hard wood to practice with.

The south had the wood, but its bar-b-que emerged out of the foetid swamp of slavery. Southern bar-b-que is simply not manly. It is sweet. It is what gentlemen and slaves produced. It is alternately genteel and submissive. It can even have a violent undercurrent of taste, but it cannot under any circumstances communicate the taste of freedom and free men. It wreaks of the need for comfort in a hot, steamy climate in a culture oppressed with slavery and civil war conquest and the aftermaths of both these odious episodes. It is food for the defeated, not for the defiant, food for the oppressor, not for the free.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

Texas bar-b-que avoids some of the southern gentility and oppression, but the best of it is just glorified range cooking (the kind that was done all over the western United States) behind a Conestoga with a bunch of chili pepper thrown into it. Texas bar-b-que is, frankly, not even bar-b-que. Its just cattle butchered and cooked as if one were out on the Good Night Lovin' trail bound for Ellsworth. It is adulterated in a not very effective way by the fusion of trail cooking with southern bar-b-que and Northern Mexican cooking. Northern Mexican cooking is exceptional in its own right--not border food, but the real Northern Mexican cooking, which is a mix of Hispanic and Indian cooking. Slave cooking, though I am not so familiar with it, has a lot to recommend it, too, especially that which hoes close to African tribal roots. But they did not converge in Texas to produce anything truly exhalted, as occurred later in Kansas City.

OakvilleJHawk makes a case for St. Louis bar-b-que, but even it is not really bar-b-que. There is too much French and German influence on it. It was a slave trading town. St. Louis just wasn't wild enough to breed the truly indigenous taste of Kansas City bar-b-que. St. Louis had the right music, though Kansas City Jazz finally had to show the right way to do the music, too.

But all the democratic and mongrel forces of cooking and culture converged in Kansas City. The Stock Yards. The free soil. The river commerce that brought the music and foods of the river culture up from St. Louis and Memphis New Orleans. Chouteau's and the French did not make as deep and lasting an imprint on Kansas City as they did in St. Louis. Kansas City ain't a catholic town. It was a cow town, the true gate way to the west, not the faux one St. Louis tries to pass itself off as.

If you want candy, got to the south. If you want range cooking with chilli got to Texas. But if you want free man's food, Arthur Bryant's bar-b-que in all its terrible beauty and democratic unpretenitousness, is the definitive free man's bar-b-que.

Post Script: Kansas City is not without its sweet bar-b-que. Ollie Gates made sweet sauce bar-b-que before anyone else in KC, I reckon (though don't quote me on that). Gates leans much more heavily towards southern bar-b-que than does Bryants, or at least used to once upon a time. And I very much enjoy Gates bar-b-que. But I go to it the same way I would go to a Memphis or a Carolina bar-b-que. I go there when I want some candy. But when I want to feel like man, a free man, when I want to be a midwesterner, when I want to feel American all the way to my bones, when I want to connect with everything that was ever good about America, and that could be again, in a democratic sense, then there is only one bar-b-que in the whole world that will do. Please, god, tell me its still there.

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago


"I've eaten at Gates, Bryants, Zardas, KC Masterpiece, that place near Union Station and in JC, and a bunch of others. Good imitations, but not close to what Memphis has to offer."

Wow where to begin, first the only good place you mentioned was Arthur Byrants, they just give you so much darn meat it's hard not to love them, but all of them pale in comparison to Jack Stack and Oklahoma Joes. OK Joes has the best fries you will ever have and the z man is too die for not to even mentioni there ribs. Jack Stack has the best beans in the world and there chicken and ribs are to die for.

The worst bbq I have ever had though has to come from Masterpiece ( bbq sauce aside) it is always burnt and dry kinda like memphis CRAPAQ. Burnt ends are not supposed to be chared. the other worst place is wyandote BBQ hands down the worst ever. I hate gates sauce and zarda's is just kinda blah. Trust me though know where in the world has better Q than oklahoma joes and jack stack. So memhawk you can take you memcrap and shove it.

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago

Man why could the headline not have been.... KU hoops taps BBQ.

Dan Harris 10 years, 4 months ago

I have been in exhile down here in Texas since graduating back in 83. I have tried every rib joint in Texas and Nothing comes close to Bryants! I actually have my dad fed ex cases of Bryants sauce every year to keep me going!!

eastTXjayhawk 10 years, 4 months ago

i'll be just fine with TX bbq staying here.

Dan, you should try The Country Tavern in the middle of nowhere Kilgore ribs I've had.

KANSTUCKY 10 years, 4 months ago

Go to the American Royal. I've been all over the country, the best BBQ is smack dab in the middle. Not at a restaurant, but in the back yards all around the KC metro. Man I miss it. The self-proclaimed BBQ capital of the world, Owensboro, KY is not. Somebody mail me some real BBQ.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago


Jack Stack yes.

Oklahoma Joes, qualified yes. The problem is the name. :-)

Tony Bandle 10 years, 4 months ago

...........See what I mean about discussion on any topic!!?????

imzcount 10 years, 4 months ago

Hog Haven biker bar in Arizona: bbq ribs, pulled pork, beef brisket, are all excellent choices on their menu. Regular or spicy sauce, your choice. The spicy (my choice) is made with habanero chilis, warm but not overpowering. If you're not a he-man you may not like it.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

OakvilleJHawk and memhawk,

I'll tell you how much I respect both of you. As strongly as I feel about the eminence of Kansas City bar-b-que and Arthur Bryants, I hereby publicly avow and do promise, that I, jaybate, when ever the fates of travel permit, will re-enter Memphis and St. Louis with open mind and fair hunger, and duly taste all recommended bar-b-que by each of you in order to collect scientific data via repeated taste testing, so as either to refute, or support the conflicting claims of OakvilleJHawk, memhawk, and yours very truly, jaybate.

The legacy of bar-b-que, like that of KU basketball, is too important to be left entirely to the subjective vagaries of memory.

Respectfully submitted,


jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago


When in Arizona, I will also test Hog Haven, if you will be more specific about its location.

I am a chronic bar-b-que taster.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

"Hinson, for instance, drove to Ponca City, Okla., to pick up 300 bottles of Head Country Barbecue sauce, which will be given to the attendees tonight. Like the Ponca City company, both Biggs BBQ and Vermont Street BBQ of Lawrence have also donated items for Hinson to use in the preparation of the food."--LJW

Head Country Barbecue sauce?

What? No one in Oklahoma believes in the missionary position any more?

Give me a break!

I've always heard that bar-b-que sauce from Oklahoma is made from three parts Kraft Barbecue sauce and one part red clay.

Looks like now I have to take side trip to Oklahoma Head Country.

Dang, bar-b-cue taste testing is never done.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 4 months ago

Jaybate, the Man of Rationality as always...when in St.Louis on your quest for the Ultimate BBQ, try Phil's Barbeque on South Gravois Road in South St.Louis. They even have waitresses with beehive hairdos!!!

Memhawk, I'll bet Memphis doesn't have that!!

jayhawkboogeyman 10 years, 4 months ago

The old Arthur Bryant's (not the terrible second location at Legends)..a beef sandwich piled high on some dirt cheap white bread with some ice cold pickle slices and a pound of Bryant's original and rich and spicy sauces mixed together with a pound of skin-on fries and a bowl of baked beans.. that is as good as it gets.

jayhawkboogeyman 10 years, 4 months ago

Oklahoma Joe's 1/2 pork 1/2 beef sandwich with baked beans and a side of gumbo is to die for too. God I am going to have to make a run for some bbq after visiting this story. Every bbq place in Lawrence positively sucks.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

Arthur Bryants. Yummm. I just had some back in June. That was the first time in 6 years. My lunch date was simply aghast at the mountain of meat on the plate. I had the meat sweats for 3 days. I've had Memphis BBQ... Now what is the place downtown? It was OK, but they serve a salad on top of the chopped pork sandwich. WTF! And they use a rub instead of smoking the meat to flavor.

Read this article for more analysis:

It was followed by Strouds the next day for lunch. But that wonderful pan fried chicken is off topic...

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago

I was always told there were two subjects to avoid discussing at work, religion and politics.

If you work in Memphis, you should also add a third subject to the list, BBQ. It is just as controversial as religion and politics. While living in Kansas City, I found the same to be true there.

Since we are not at work and are all in different cities, we can freely discuss this, and we have our allegiences. Even though Memphians may disagree about where the best BBQ is served in their city, Kansas City folks have similar debates from their area. The fact remains that there is a sort of Mason-Dixon line when it comes to this debate. We're all united in our geographic preferences even if we disagree on which place to eat BBQ from locally. .

While Jaybate is a Wikipedia-esque jounalist, the facts are cloudy and arguable regarding the roots of BBQ as we know it. Probably, if one were to trace it back, it would actually go back to the days of the caveman. They were the first to barbecue meat. They had no choice!

On to the debate.

Memphis BBQ is not about sauce. It's about the end result of smoking the meat. The "meat" being pork. A line in my favorite movie, My Cousin Vinny,..."no self-respecting southerner would ever eat instant grits", Well, no self respecting southerner would ever eat beef and call it BBQ. Sauce is available at most BBQ restaurants and is proudly marketed by a lot of those restaurants with their names on their own sauce. The purists would never be caught adding sauce to their ribs. A BBQ sandwich consists of chopped or pulled pork shoulder (personal preferences) topped by cole slaw and BBQ sauce poured over it all while served on a bun. The sauce is optional to some people. The true Memphis shoulder has not been cooked in any sauce, just smoked. Low and slow is the motto for the cooking style. Certain segments of the population use hot sauce on their BBQ sandwiches. Of course, these people use hot sauce on popcorn also, go figure!

At some KC joints, you get a piece of white bread for a base and all of that meat heaped on it and sauce drenching the whole heap. I don't get it. You could have lunch meat under all of that sauce and it would taste the same. The sauce to meat ratio is key to a good sandwich.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago

kuwells- the place in downtown Memphis that you referred to is the Rendevous. It is NOT typical Memphis style BBQ. It is a tourist trap and a shame that most visitors to the city only judge our cuisine by that place. It is an institution but is not the pride of locals.

jayhawkinmullen-You are right about one thing. Jack Stack does have the best beans. They also have the best BBQ lamb I've eaten anywhere. BTW, does Hooker County in Nebraska have any BBQ joints?

jaybate - Sounds like you're willing to conduct your own survey. Very open-minded of you, even though your opinions are prejudiced at this point. When the time comes, I hope you'll contact me for an insider's list of the most representative spots in Memphis. You won't find a "security" guy hanging around the parking lot at some of these like at Arthur Bryants to make the suburb patrons feel more safe. Some of our best places come with the experience of getting to, into, out of, and away from the place and living to tell your friends and relatives of your exploits. Others are less intimidating and less challenging. I'll een tell you where to get the best bbq bologna sandwiches.

Viva la difference!

At least we ALL agree on the Jayhawks!


trader 10 years, 4 months ago

As to where you find the best BBQ I will agree that everyone has different taste buds. However, I am a Kansas City BBQ certified judge and we use specific judging criteria to determine who is the best.

Along that line you might check into the BBQ sauce that Barry selected and drove clear down to Oklahoma (heaven forbid) to pick up. Head Country BBQ owner, Paul, donated his sauce and he has won the Kansas City Royal BBQ grand championship AND he also won the Jack Daniels national championship. HIs sauce (and his BBQ) is a winner hands down. Barry went with the best of the best.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago


You're right, there are no places that serve BBQ in Memphis where the waitresses have beehive hairdos.

In fact, because of the euphoria from the BBQ itself, I can't seem to remember a single thing about anybody who has served me in all of my years.

I'll always think of St. Louis as a more diverse city with a wide variety of cuisines. Can't beat The Hill, Ted Drewes, Pumpernicks, some little Chinese place on Olive St. and some Greek place on Manchester, I think. Busch's Grove used to be one of the most unique places ever, miss that one.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

memhawk: Rendevous! That was the place! Thank you! Damn, I was tricked! Now I have to go back to Memphis and try Corkys...

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

} Ouch! Wikijournalist seems such a condescending term. Oh, well, call me what you wish.

} "Memphis BBQ is not about sauce. It's about the end result of smoking the meat." --memhawk

This is the very problem with Memphis BBQ. It is largely about smoking. Other BBQs around the country are largely about the sauce. Other's are largely about the meat.

Great cooking is about mastery of everything to do with the food being prepared.

Bryant's created a flawless, perfectly orchestrated, largely original BBQ cuisine that was about the whole of BBQ. Therefore: it is better by definition than Memphis BBQ.

} Now let us consider some nuts and bolts of BBQ history. I would agree with you that there are a lot of various hypotheses and histories of the legacy and trying to verify most betrays them as wildly simplistic. Still, we must try to understand what we can, knowing full well it is incomplete and prone to revision as more is learned.

Ribs of one kind of animal or another have been cooked in many parts of the world apparently for millenia. They have been roasted in ovens and grilled over flames in many places by many peoples.

But the legacy of American BBQ has certain distinctive elements from others that allow us to distinguish and talk about its legacy.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

The conventional wisdom is that BBQ is directly descended from African Americans cooking in the slave era and before that from African tribal culture's use of sauces on African game. This seems one significant strand of the legacy.

But there are others, also.

Where did the pigs come from that provide the pork and ribs that are staples of American BBQ, as we know it?

Did they come from Africa, too?

Apparently not.

North America had javelinas, a species of wild pigs. But the pigs we have tended to use to make BBQ came from Europe. Europeans reputedly domesticated pigs from wild pigs in Europe many centuries ago. Spaniards, French and English brought these domesticated European pigs to North America starting early in their settlement of North America. They found their reputedly rather gamey, lean European pigs loved corn, which was then found only in the new world. Feeding pigs corn made the pigs gain more and faster, and made the pork less gamey and more fatty for eating.

Now, what about tomato based BBQ sauces? Did African slaves bring tomato based BBQ sauces from Africa?

Apparently not. They seem to have brought with them a legacy of spicy, piquant sauces, as did certain Europeans (especially those from certain regions of Spain and of Provence), also, but in fact neither had any experience with tomato based sauces before coming to America, since the tomato was indigenous to North America.

And not only was the tomato native to North America, according to some, it was widely used in sauces by certain native American tribes before either the Europeans, or African Americans, arrived in North America. It appears likely that Europeans may well have first learned of tomato based sauces from Native Americans, and that African Americans brought as slaves to North America very soon after likely learned of tomato based sauces from some combination of contact with Native Americans and recent European immigrants.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

What about smoking meat in American BBQ? Where did that come from?

Well, at least according to one old BBQ recipe I have seen claimed to date from not long before the civil war, at that time the meat in southern BBQ, at least that eaten by the affluent was not necessarily smoked at all. The ribs were marinated 12 hours, then slow roasted on a rack suspended above water inside a covered roast pan for 4-5 hours at 300 degrees to slowly cook the fat out of the meat without hardening, drying, or otherwise burning the meat. The ribs were never exposed directly to smoke, because the smoke covered the ribs with wood tar and that actually ruined the flavor of the meat itself.

To some southerners of that time, one can infer the taste of the meat itself was what was paramount . The way they preserved the meat taste and added the smoky flavor was by burning preferred kinds of wood and then gathering small amounts of wood tar from those burns and then dissolving that wood tar in water and adding that wood tar flavored water to their tomato based BBQ sauce. Then very near the end of the roasting they lightly basted the ribs first on one side and then another, roasted just a bit longer and then removed the ribs for eating. This impregnated the ribs with smokey flavor without destroying the meat flavor. It was apparently considered coarse and foolish to smoke the meat itself the way many rib joints do it now. Basically direct smoking of the meat leaves you largely with the taste of the wood tar, not the meat. True BBQ as it first emerged in North America was a roasting process, not a smoking process, nor a grilling process.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

Direct smoking seems to have come into increasingly broad popularity sometime after the civil war for reasons other than great taste. What was going on after the Civil War? Well the southern economy was decimated and there were food shortages and a shortage of live stock in particular. Put another way, not everyone could afford their own pigs anymore. And there were no more slaves to provide the labor needed to do all of the pig farming on a highly centralized plantation. Those with money enough started pig farms. And they found they could sell large amounts of the meat to many desperately hungry people, if they could figure out a way to keep it from spoiling rapidly. Smoking, long understood as a preservative process, was apparently widely embraced. On a plantation, a pig could be killed regularly to feed a large number of persons. When plantations disbanded, or at least ceased to feed and house the slaves in large numbers (i.e., when slaves became share croppers), killing a pig for one family lead to a lot of waste without smoking. Times were hard and everyone was poor. Making things taste the best they could was not paramount. Getting enough to eat and making sure there was always something to eat became paramount. Longer shelf life trumped best meat taste. Smoking helped lengthen the shelf life of food in these disastrous conditions. Smoking was a way to hide a wide range in quality of ribs and pork, too. If there weren't corn and acorns in sufficient supply to fatten up a pig, one had to feed the pig all manner of things that did not necessarily make the pork and ribs taste that great. Smoking covered up the taste of pork and ribs fed with substandard food.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

A contemporary barbeque bragging about how great its smoked barbecue is is really (and this includes much of my beloved Kansas City barbecue) a relative claim. It may be the best among smoked barbecue, but the best barbecue is not smoked. Direct smoking is actually the worst way to make ribs and pork. If you ever cook ribs the old fashioned way, you will find that contemporary smoked ribs, even the best of them, are actually pretty tasteless and that what you like about them is how moist and tender they are (contemporary rib makers retain slow cooking from the old fashioned methods to get moist and tender), and the smoke smell (you can't really taste the smoke smell per se, all you can taste is wood tar), and their sauces, and their tasty, salty seasoning/marinade/rubs that are used. Much as I love contemporary barbecue, it is really lousy in comparison to the old way of emphasizing the meat and a bit of smoke, achieved without smoking the ribs and pork. But people today have been brainwashed into thinking direct smoking is flavorful (its really just smell-full) and to not prize the taste of the meat itself, which is the real delicacy to be had. Most persons, including me for most of my life, have eaten so much wood tar that they aren't really even aware of how good real meat can taste, when cooked properly.

(Note: a very eccentric fellow named George Herter, who once ran a mail order sporting goods catalogue business, wrote a cook book back in the 1950s or so, and most of the above that I have mentioned is paraphrased from his book "Bull Cook and Authentic Historical Recipes and Practices." A small cult has arisen around his cook books and while I am not cult prone, I do like his recipes a lot and find some of his audacious comments, though hardly beyond questioning, thought provoking and with some merit. Herter, who was probably a proto survivalist and rather right wing was none the less an American original, not a crank--the proof being in the goodness of the food made by his "authentic" recipes.)

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

Next, recall that as industrialization lead increasingly to vast slaughterhouses the meat packers began to make their monies by doing great volumes with the most frequently demanded parts of animals. Recall that by the early 20th Century, when African Americans began their latest struggle to escape racism, they migrated into cities like Memphis, St. Louis, Kansas City and Chicago, where there were huge slaughterhouses that literally threw the ribs away and left them in great mounds to be ground up into certain kinds of feed, or literally just dumped and let rot.

These poor African Americans quickly joined poor whites living off these rib piles. They went and grabbed what was not too far rotted and they cooked the heck out of them to try to get something cheap to eat? Is it any surprise that they and other poor whites chose to smoke these ribs, also? It had become accepted in the south. They brought this approach north with them.

Add in that a great many avenues of employment were closed to African Americans at the time and it is not surprising that many of them got into the BBQ business operating restaurants. And it is not surprising that in the restaurant business smoking ribs, i.e., preserving them in wood tar, became a preferred and popular way to prepare the food.

That's all for now on BBQ.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago


Now we know, You have a B A degree. Barbecue Afficienado. Or is it a B S degree, Bachelor of Swine?

You know what, I could care less if space monkeys first brought BBQ to earth!

I'm just damn glad to have choices and to hope for the next great new joint that serves it. I do believe, however, that rarely does an upstart restaurant impress me. It's usually the joints that have hung around through good times and bad that give us the most authentic respits, regardless which city you're loyal to. Oh yeah, weren't tomatoes in Italy as a staple before being brought to this country?

We'll just have to agree to disagree and to respect each other's palettes.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago

Did you mean to end your last post with a Porky Pig impression?

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago


Corkys has become the icon for Memphis BBQ. Don't be taken in by the commecialism of their brand like you were taken in by the Rendevous. Dig deeper, please. Corky's is so corporate that they franchise, sell on QVC and even had a contract a few years back with Northwest Airlines to cater flights, when airlnes still did that! They do a good job,being such entrpenuers that their food quality is very inconsistent in the process. You can buy their products frozen in most grocery chains in the city also. Frozen BBQ! Pigsickles at best!

Joe Baker 10 years, 4 months ago


Try Rudy's in Texas and if you're ever in Ft Worth, go to Cousin's on Bryant Irvin Rd or the McCart location ...some of the best BBQ you'll ever have. They have the leanest brisket ever.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

memhawk, Frozen? Blasphemy! And thanks for the restaurant name idea. When I open my BBQ joint, it will be called Space Monkey BBQ. I have the logo designed already. Try my Area 51 sauce. It is out of this world. The recipe? Top secret!

truehawk93, I live in San Antonio. Rudys is great. And the brisket is perfect. I think I know where I'm going to lunch.

By the way... The headline... Now we are tapping BBQ???

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago


Agree to disagree, if you must, young Skywalker, but discover you will.

The force is strong in barbecue...and in you, or you would not have sought it out in the Memphis galaxy, which is but one small part of your journey.

There is a light side and a dark side to this force...and a present and a past.

You may not wish to know more than today...but you will.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago


Listen carefully. The master is right. The tomato probably evolved in South America. It migrated north eventually to Mexico, though no one is totally sure whether it spread by conventional means of natural broadcast (e.g., migratory birds and animals and nomadic peoples eating the vegetables and unwittingly eliminating the seeds beyond their existing communities), or if native peoples intentionally went exploring and brought the vegetable with them. It is surmised that Native Americans in the Americas did not cultivate the tomato, because it was sufficiently plentiful for simple gathering, but this may well be a Eurocentric bias. So many of the records of pre Spanish native Americans were destroyed over the years by European conquerors that no one can say for sure what the pre-Columbians did and did not do. One can only say from surviving evidence that some how the tomato spread at least to Mexico and note that the Mayan, Incan, and Aztec and Toltec cultures were known to be darned smart, quite refined in cooking, and good gardeners before getting sacked. The Spaniards, who were into culture sacking and plant cultivation in big ways, liked the tomato a lot and broadcast its seeds and cultivation through out its colonies in North America and the Carribean, and shipped it back to Europe. Tomato cultivation in Europe dates to late 1500s. European recipes for cooking with tomatoes surfaced in early 1600s. More that a few have claimed that the Mohawk Indians were making tomato based sauces for a dish quite similar to chicken cacciatore when the English and French settlers arrived in North America, and the implication is that the Mohawks had been cooking tomatoes for a long time before the Italians even uttered their first moldo buono, atsa magnifico tomato. But, Luke, I would say that even the master would not say this is set in stone about the Mohawks. Either way, native Americans had been eating tomatoes probably since some time after Mongols immigrated to North and then South America via the Bering Strait land bridge, and depending on your POV, may be some Polynesian peoples found their way by boat to the west coast of Sur America...which means in both cases, quite some time before the Euro trash got ahold of it. Feel the force, Luke. It is all around you.

Best regards, Obi-wan

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago


Please recommend your top three favorite Tayhoss BBQs please and I will eventually get to them. Thanks in advance.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago

I guess I'm more of a "it's the end, not the means" guy when it comes to this subject. I've tried my hand at the patio chef thing. Steaks, burgers, etc.are my repritoire

You're either born with it or you're not, when it comes to proper barbecueing of ribs, shoulders, etc. Maybe it's practice that makes perfect. I just don't have he patience to spend the requisite time on this art. Maybe that's why I live in Memphis, for the privilege of eating at a different BBQ joint once a week for a couple of years and never repeating. It sure isn't because of the basketball here!!!

I would love to have a meeting in the middle, literally, in St. Louis at the KU-Memphis game where everybody would present their favorite BBQ for each other to sample. I've bought my tickets already for the game. Anybody game for this?

JayCeph 10 years, 4 months ago

memhawk, I think you mean "...couldn't care less."

As for BBQ, we all have our favs and there are as many different types of 'Cue as their are things to char before being eaten.

BBQ is really about three primary approaches: 1) Smoked meats 2)Sauces/Rubs (for dipping, basting, topping, etc.) and 3)A merger of the other two.

I have found that most BBQs are better suited for different approaches:

Gates and Sons - a decent smoked meat but their sauce isn't a really good topper. Too much (*something) that doesn't compliment the end product after the fact. Their sauce is better for basting and cooking the meat during preparation.

KC Masterpiece - great sauce for topping; the meat is more dry (for KC standards) but they have(had) the best true burnt ends. All other burnt ends are just chunks of wet fatty meat. Burnt ends should be dry as a direct result of the fat being rendered from them over time.

If a meat is still fatty when being eaten, it isn't true BBQ. It is just grilled meat. Slow and low is the one true mantra that cannot be denied nor ignored.

I think the best confluence of styles (smoked meats with great sauces) is between a place in Excelsior Springs, MO called Wabash. You can smell the smoker from several blocks away. Their sauce is tiered and they have spicy for those that prefer a little kick. A very decent sauce.

The second is marvel is in Hutchinson, KS called Roy's. They are a pit BBQ and the close when they run out of meat. The thought of their smoked meats make my jaw muscles tingle... indescribably flavorful. They also have some of the best sauce I have ever had... too many times I have tried to come up with ways to hook it up to me via IV.

Whatever your tastes, the fact you like BBQ and basketball shows that you are an evolved individual that knows there is something more to life than the daily 9-5. I'm proud to know you exist... makes the rest of this 'Walmart' world more tolerable.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

MMMMMMM. I just tapped some Rudy's BBQ.

packywacky88 10 years, 4 months ago

Guy and May's - Williamsburg, KS (south of Ottawa). Best ribs on the planet! None better and well worth the trip.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

jwliddell... Sorry. My coworkers were asking "why are you so hell bent on going to Rudys today?" It's kind of hard to blame it on Bedore, so I blamed it on jaybate.

jaybate: I asked the pit boss if his tomatoes decended from South America or Mexico. He asked me to leave. But seriously, I got confused and had to skim your post. Are you suggesting that tomatoes migrate?

10 years, 4 months ago

Love the topic! For those who think Gates sauce is too sweet, be sure to try their Extra Hot. Probably my favorite.

In my humble opinion, the best BBQ baked beans in KC are served at LC's on Blue Parkway. They contain chunks of brisket, and from what I can tell, a good helping of brown sugar and molasses. Awesome.

For those who are looking for good Texas BBQ, a few non-chain dandy's I love are:

1) Hard Eight BBQ in Coppell (suburb of Dallas) 2) Schoepf's BBQ in Belton (between Waco and Austin) 3) Harold's Pit Bar-B-Q in Abilene (between Ft. Worth and Midland)

These all received exceptional reviews in a recent addition of Texas Monthly, an article in which they sought out the best BBQ joints in Texas. The pork ribs at each are incredible.

p.s. Ditto on Rudy's. Even though it is a chain, I highly recommend it - - especially the pork loin sandwich.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

Also in the Republic of Texas:

Just outside of Austin is a place called the Salt Lick. Orgasmic! Jacked up liquor laws places this reastaurant in a dry county. But, you can wheel a cooler in and enjoy.

In Llano there is a place called Coopers. Authentic down to the wax paper.

I just tapped a pork rib and I am hungry for more. I'm putting down the BlackBerry and enjoying...

Martin Shupert 10 years, 4 months ago

Wow. Jaybate Write the book already... maybe you'll just have to compile your posts. amazing...

JayCeph 10 years, 4 months ago

Brobeck's in Overland Park (Leawood?) - 105th and Roe is another fine BBQ establishment with strictly smoked meats. They provide sauces (and many of them are from other KC famous haunts) but they let you choose to go that route should you want to. However, you can eat their ribs all by themselves and drink in their smokey goodness. Hrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago

Other good places K&M in Springhill good sandwiches. Johnny's BBQ one in Olathe, and the other in Mission. Smokestack is ok. One of my other fav's though is Hayward's they have this triple meat sandwich that is incredible and there sweet potato fries ( best i've had) and there beans are ok.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

jwliddell: 'd love to come to the Memphis game. We'll have to see. I was hoping to save for a game in Indianapolis, but that might be more realistic for my budget.

Haywards is good jayhawkinmullen. The ol tripple meat sandwich!

So, after all this BBQ, here are a couple of sites that may be of interest:


10 years, 4 months ago

jwliddell ~

"I love the brisket chunks in my beans, changes it from a side dish to a meal in itself!"

Good call! I thought about including in my post that you could make a meal just out of the beans at LC’s :-)

I have heard Salt Lick is really good. I need to try that one out myself. They apparently have a location in the OKC airport if a person ever happens to be flying in or out of there.

kuwells ~

If you are ever north of San Antonio in the Bandera area, you might give Busbee’s Bar-B-Que a try. It was pretty darn good the time I stopped in. Great brisket. Don’t make the mistake of asking if they have pulled pork though - - you’ll get one of those, “Where are you from?” reactions from them ;-)

Joe Baker 10 years, 4 months ago

JayCeph (anonymous) says... The second is marvel is in Hutchinson, KS called Roy's

I've been here and they should be getting supplied by the Mennonites in Yoder. They would have grain fed beef and never run out!!!

Enough talking already it's BBQ this pm!! The only BBQ here in the OKC is Earls, Rib Crib and of course Rudy's (the best here in OKC/Norman). There a few small joints. Rib Crib isn't bad for a chain. The best family run outfit is still Cousins in Ft Worth, TX!!

waywardJay 10 years, 4 months ago

After reading this.... i need some barbeque......

Tim Bingaman 10 years, 4 months ago

Any BBQ fan needs to make a pilgrimage to Lockhardt, TX. It is off the highway between Austin and San Antonio. Consistently rated 3 of the Best BBQ places in the country all in one little town: Kreutz, Smitty's, and Black's. You'll need at least 2 days. I LOVE KC BBQ, but TX BBQ is on equal footing. The best thing that you get in TX is amazing sausage. KC simply doesn't measure up in the sausage dept. These places have their own ecentricities, which you can learn on your own. Great trip. In my opinion, Rudy's should not be a destination. Good place, but only for convenience... if you are coming to eat, go to Lockhardt.

Joe Baker 10 years, 4 months ago

Kruez does look good!! I'll have to stop through on my next trip and the San Anton suggestions look good too!!


Joe Baker 10 years, 4 months ago

I know where I'm going in Lockhart, TX!!

Black's BBQ

Tim Bingaman 10 years, 4 months ago

By the way, do not take my strong recommendation of the sausage in Lockhardt is not to suggest that the BRISKET isn't incredible... dare I say on pace with even Bryant's. Smitty's smoke room is incredible... The scariest dudes with huge knives in this big black room... amazing place!

Eat up Jayhawks! Mangenius would...

Joe Baker 10 years, 4 months ago

Cousin’s currently has 6 Cousin’s Bar-B-Q Restaurants throughout Tarrant County including two locations in Terminals B and D at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.

If you travel through the DFW Airport, you have your chance!!!


10 years, 4 months ago

truehawk93 ~

My cousin in OKC swears by J.R.'s Family Bar-B-Q. I tried it out when I was up for the Big 12 Tournament back in March and it was pretty good. Huge portions.

Have you had a chance to try the Salt Lick in the Will Rogers Airport?

TimmytheJayhawk is dispensing good advice regarding BBQ places in Lockhart, TX. I have not been fortunate enough to try them yet, however in the Texas Monthly article I mentioned earlier, Kreuz's and Smitty's were each given the highest rating possible (5 on a .25 increment scale from 1 to 5).

I need to try Cousin's soon!

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

truehawk93: In OKC, have you tried:

Piggys, downtown (at least when I lived there 1986-1993).

Toms BBQ, I believe on NE 10th by I-35.

Both real nice. So is County Line by the Cowboy HOF.

I've got myself worked up again!

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago

Another great KC tradition, applebees man they have the best ribs ever. If any of you Jayhawk fans are ever in KC try applebees it is absolutly delicious.

trader 10 years, 4 months ago

Applebees...yuk, all loaded with sauce. Excuse me but they are not the real deal.

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago

The mecca of great BBQ ribs and brisket sandwiches though has to come from perkins. Every BBQ lover has to do a pilgrimage at least once there in there lifetime.

JayCeph 10 years, 4 months ago

Don't forget the Arby-Q sauce at Arby's... America's Roast Beef, Yes Sir!

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago


Ihops pulled pork pancakes are extreme, not to even mention there french dip toast with a little bbq sauce mmmm yum.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago

Ok, this board is sure to be shut down any minute due to the last few inane posts.

For those of you who are serious about the possibility of holding our own Jayhawk BBQ Throwdown in St. Louis the day of the KU-Memphis game in November, let's continue to work toward this over the next few weeks. Surely we'll be posting mutually to articles and can stay in touch that way. I'd offer to bring BBQ from three of my favorites in Memphis to share if others agree to follow suit. We know that St Louis has the beer there,no need to import that! I just don't know if I could bring myself to actually eat anything from the Cackle & Oink that jwliddell talked about.

That's all folks! (P. Pig)

Firebirdguy31 10 years, 4 months ago

Dude, it's Bar-B-Que...

I stopped reading somewhere in Jaybates 5,000th post. I can't believe such a retarded topic would spawn a heated debate about something that's trivial and completely based on one's opinion and personal preference...

So... what are we doing now? Randomly listing every source of BBQ and attempting to write a paragraph on why it's great too... I don't think I want to play.

How about we talk about KU Football or Basketball... I hear that we're going to be pretty good this year! I think there's a football game coming up too, not completely sure on that one though. Any thoughts?

Oh yea, KC has the best BBQ, all the others suck! hehehe...

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

Easy memhawk. Try to enjoy some humor...

Is there a Calhouns in Memphis. I ate at one in Knoxville and they claimed to have the best ribs. Just wondering what you thought.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago

Firebirdguy31- You're absolutely right. There hasn't been enough discussion of sports with all of this BBQ talk.

So, everybody, what kind of BBQ do you think the new food concession vendor will be serving at games this year? What is Mangino's favorite BBQ joint? Now, satisfied, we've talked about sports!

kuwells - There have been no national barbecue chain restaurants to make it for long in Memphis. There's one now, Nick and Jims, where the menu probably actually has as good a flovor as their barbecue! Locals just don't support and tolerate "foreign" barbecue. It's sort of why there is no Olive Garden on The Hill in St. Louis. Locals rule. The only barbeque chain in Memphis is Corky's, which started in Memphis. The local resturants are much better than their franchises in other cities, however.

Sorry for the lack of humor also in my last post. All of that talk about Arby's and IHOP relative to barbecue was like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. Might as well have been discussing the merits of the McRib sandwich.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

But the McRib is sooooo tasty.

Funny response to firebirdguy there memhawk... Made me laugh.

And, I've enjoyed the BBQ talk. There is plenty of conversation regarding sports here. Without BBQ there would be no sports. Also, there is plenty of sports talk on other threads. There is also a great sociology conversation going on regarding Lil' Wayne and Todd Reesing. Sorry, mem, couldn't resist...

In this thread I've also learned tomatos migrate. Or at least that is what I think I learned. And I hope Arbys doesn't really have Arby-Q sauce. That would make me sad. I also thought that I'm pretty sure Coach Mangino has a favorite BBQ joint.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago

There'll be plenty of time for sports talk. Starting in November, we'll pass the time here the way we always do. Oh yeah, there is that football team that's starting an undefeated season also to discuss now.

OakvilleJhawk-What's next, the aardvark, as you suggested?

Joe Baker 10 years, 4 months ago

txrockchalk (anonymous) says... truehawk93 ~

My cousin in OKC swears by J.R.'s Family Bar-B-Q. I tried it out when I was up for the Big 12 Tournament back in March and it was pretty good. Huge portions.

Have you had a chance to try the Salt Lick in the Will Rogers Airport?

I forgot about Salt Lick and it is pretty good. Also, I've heard about JRs and it's been on my radar for about 2-3 mos.


Joe Baker 10 years, 4 months ago

Firebirdguy31 (anonymous) says... How about we talk about KU Football or Basketball... I hear that we're going to be pretty good this year! I think there's a football game coming up too, not completely sure on that one though. Any thoughts?

Here's my thought...we all know the obvious. As long as we beat OU, that's my only thought!! What other thoughts are there? Oh yeah, Duke played well against Army! Man G will have them ready for game against Dook! RCJHKU

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago


Is Sweet Baby Rays out of Memphis, because they have probably the best sauce I have ever had?

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago

Never mind they are out of Illinois the Chicago area. I guess the sauce came first then the restaurant.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 4 months ago

QUICK...SOMEBODY AT LJW POST ANOTHER ARTICLE......THE BBQ IS OUT OF CONTROL!!!!!!! Thank God the arrticle wasn't about enema bags or acne medication!!!

Joe Baker 10 years, 4 months ago

kuwells (anonymous) says...

Toms BBQ, I believe on NE 10th by I-35.--I ate at Tom's from a catered event and then tried it with my family. The brisket wasn't quite the same, tough! Piggys, downtown (at least when I lived there 1986-1993). I have tried Piggy's in Bricktown, not too bad Both real nice. So is County Line by the Cowboy HOF. - I've tried County Line once, it's ok!

Thanks for the suggestions

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

jaybate news service:

The pseudo scientific magazine, Psychology Every Fricking Day, reports research indicating an R-square of .93 between posters describing other posts as "retarded," and those same posters having sub-cretinous IQs. The research was performed at the Allen Turing Digital Enlightenment Institute on the campus of Lockerbie Polytechnic in Scottland. When asked if this proved a connection between those who j'accuse retardation and low IQ, Professor Angus MacTavish, leader of the research team, said through a brogue as thick as Scotty's on the orginal Star Trek, "Hoot mahn! Don't you know? Parametric statistics are dead. We don't find empirical facts any more in science. Just non parametric relationships and nonsense algorithms. Its the new age, laddie. This study was based entirely on an anecdotal case we found on a website in America called There was this peri-male-menopausal poster with an alias of "Firebirdguy31." The findings are based entirely on an "n" of one, laddie. Its how we can make ends meet on the measely grants given us by Queen hereself. "

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago


I've used Sweet Baby Rays sauce before. It is really good. I've made some killer bbq chicken with it. `It's just against my religion to put sauce on ribs, though!

We have a grocery store chain that sells bbq sauces from restaurants all over the country. I've tried some of them. They also sell pasta sauces from some of the St. Louis restaurants on the Hill, since they are based in St. Louis.

BTW, have you seen the new types of Stridex that are out now?

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago


Remember the Austin Powers Scottish character Fat Bastard? He is an associate at Lockerbie Poly. He was rumored to have said in response to the research, "and they call ME Fat Bastard", referring to Firebirdguy31!

Then he went on to sing some song about baby back ribs. (segue!)

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

Oakville: OK, enema bags, douche bags, colostomy bags, I would understand. But acne meds? Just what do you have against zit creams?

So, I take it you don't like BBQ with your sports? Come on, name your favorite place.

LJW did post new articles today, but they were apparently boring.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

Alright Jaybate and Memhawk, be careful! Anyone with an avitar of the post menopausal Chippendales has to be under some stress. If he is a postal employee, you both are in real trouble.

We need to keep this thread alive, apparently just to annoy. Suggestions for next topics? Say BBQ?

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

That's why they call them gut bombs, dynomite....

NH_JHawk 10 years, 4 months ago

I agree about Roy's in Hutch. That's a must stop everytime I go back to visit family there. Damn, those are good eats! If you go there early enough you can savor the flavor for the rest of the day since you walk out smelling like the pit.

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago

Colostomy bags are awesome everyone should have one maybe even two. It's great because you can enjoy you bbq all over again.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

And to think that I felt I had gone too far...

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

The only thing better than barbecue and basketball, would be barbecue, basketball and desktop wallpaper featuring a nude photo shoot of Ashley Judd snapped by Nick Krug!

Come on, Ashley, we're the real deal, darlin'. We'll accept your transfer right now!

Nick, get ready!!

How do ya keep a camera lens from fogging up?!

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago


Sorry, I don't think I've ever disagreed with you, but you must be an engineer (I'll reference the talking frog is cool joke)... You're slightly off... Allow me to deminstrate!

The only thing better than BBQ and hoops would be licking BBQ sauce off of a naked Ashley Judd, at halftime of a KU basketball game, while Nick Krug took some video (sorry Nick, time to raise the bar over something that lasts 1/30th of a second).

kuwells JR. Get ready!!!

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago


I hate to be the one that said "I told you so"

But, I'm afraid you might get an answer... The way this thread is going, it might eventually get "This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement." But you're going to get an answer!

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

The Frog and the Engineer

An engineer was crossing a road one day when a frog called out to him and said, "If you kiss me, I`ll turn into a beautiful princess".

He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket.

The frog spoke up again and said, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a beautiful princess, I will stay with you for one week."

The engineer took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and returned it to the pocket.

The frog then cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a princess, I`ll stay with you and do ANYTHING you want."

Again the engineer took the frog out, smiled at it and put it back into his pocket.

Finally, the frog asked, "What is the matter? Ive told you Im a beautiful princess, that Ill stay with you for a week and do anything you want. Why wont you kiss me?"

The engineer said, "Look Im an engineer. I dont have time for a girlfriend, but a talking frog, now that`s cool."

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago

Firebirdguy31 - The latest article posted on is about the new concession vendor for games at AFH and Memorial Stadium. And, guess what, there will be BBQ! I guess after 120+ posts on this thread, mostly about bbq, they must have felt the urge to go with the flow.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago


Much, much, much, muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better.

Licking BBQ sauce off Ashley Judd during Amor...

(jaybate fantasizing)

I stand utterly and completely corrected!

Ashley, darling, think of me as your swashbuckling Captain Lick Butler. :-)


Are the Lexington papers speculating that Ashley is having an affair with Coach Cal yet? Oh, no, say it ain't so! Say her heart is gold and she will be transfering here allegiances to KU ASAP!

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago


Have you ever had BBQ frog legs they are excellent. Memphis does them very well, they also do BBQ possum well also. In fact I believe most of there meat is road kill. I think Tennessee is the road kill state or is it Texas I can't remember. Has anyone ever had smoked armadillo I hear they are starting to migrate up north.

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

Memhawk: freaking hilarious! Awesome timing on that article, don't you think?

Jaybate: time freaking out. First, both hands on the keyboard. Second, and much more important, I did not improve this fantasy for you! You may know your BBQ history, but I'm the lick master!

As a consolation prize, I'm pretty sure her mom isn't busy. But your going to need a lot more BBQ sauce and Mr. Krug is going to need one hell of a wide angle lense in his bag!

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

Jayhawkinmullen: I smoked Armadillo once at a party, but I didn't inhale. Stupid peer pressure.

And nice segue to the next frog joke...

Q: How do you eat a frog?

A: One leg behind each ear...

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago

A man walks in to a doctors office with a frog on his head.

The doctor leaps up and says: "Good grief, how on earth did you get that great ugly thing!"

The frog looks down and replies: "I dunno Doc, it started out as a little wart on my bottom!"

Kent Wells 10 years, 4 months ago

Fine. I can do this all night...

Q: What's green and smells like Ms. Piggy?

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 4 months ago

A little girl walks up to her grandfather and says:

"Grandpa, can you make a sound like a frog?"

Grandpa says:

"Honey, why do you want me to do that?"

And the little girls says:

"Well, Daddy said that when you croak, we all get to go to Disney World!"

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 4 months ago

kuwells -

Kermi's finger!

Get some new jokes, please!

jayhawkinmullen - It's Texas that is so famous for roadkill. You know, the big state with all of that road. In Tennessee, we dont eat anything that draws flies! Great jokes you've got! I'm impressed.

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