FlaHawk (anonymous) says...

Lot's of studs to replace and too many duds still around. KU will be challenged to score next year and the defense will be very suspect. TIme to change coachs and schemas. NO MORE 4-2-5 defense please!

November 30, 2009 at 6:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

KU (anonymous) says...

It's less about scheme and more about speed.....or lack thereof.

November 30, 2009 at 6:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oldrocker (anonymous) says...

Mangino was a considerable improvement after Terry Allen, but there is still a huge difference in talent betweeen us and most of the teams in the Big 12 south. I know we have a lot of Texas kids on the team, but we need a coach that can bring in even more players from Texas. And it would be nice if we could keep Kansas kids like Blake Bell from leaving the state.

November 30, 2009 at 7:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sgtjb123 (anonymous) says...

If these allegations against Mangino had never come out, with the expectations of this team and seven straight losses there would be no controversy over his firing.

November 30, 2009 at 7:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mvjayhawk (anonymous) says...

it would also be nice if we could keep our current recruiting class in tow....this is a great class so far, and this cloud over the program isn't good at all.

this shoe needs to drop today, or at the latest, tomorrow.....so our program can keep going. Either fire him, or announce he stays....but let's get this done!!

and we'll be fine next year....plenty of good players. this year, more than any other year since MM has been here, our coaching and personnel decisions, were the worst it's been.

November 30, 2009 at 7:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

yates33333 (anonymous) says...

Recruit not only Texas, but see if you can make inroads in Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, and California. They produce many outstanding players, and while most stay closer to home, some of the second tier players turn out to be excellent in college ball.

Find Mangino not guilty and get on with it. He has a pretty good nucleus returning on offense.

November 30, 2009 at 7:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jhawkjunkie (anonymous) says...

Call me a homer, but l really think next year will a good season, maybe the year we were expecting this year. It kinda sucks that I am already talking about next year, but looking forward to football season is one of the things that Mark Mangino changed about the attitude at KU.

Thank you seniors for the fantastic memories and you will be missed. It's unfair to complain how the next group of kids will not be able to fill thier shoes, but they could be a very good team. The O-Line played great towards the end of the year, Sharp is replaced by Opurum and Lewis(where was he during the year),Meier and if Briscoe is gone, well then McDougal, Biere and Wilson I believe comes back, and how many people really thought that Meier would be the great WR he bacame or Reesing being the record breaking QB at KU, so you know Mangino has an eye for talent so another WR could step up. Maybe Pick or Webb will surprise KU fans On defense, Laptad and the D-tackles come back and on almost every game the television announcers were really talking up the young linebackers KU had and next year they have a year under thier belt, so maybe we're looking at a 2002-2007 versions of linebackers. As for the CB's well hopefully a year under their belts will do them good

Second, Mangino SHOULD come back, Bowen, well, I'd hate to loose him because he's a great recruiter, but if someone better is out there, maybe a demotion or firing.

Conference records, non conference records aside with Mangino, when Terry Allen was here,( I bet he wishes KU fans talked about him this much when he was here), how many people looked at the schedule and said "I hope we don't get blown out in this game!" instead of "We could win this game!" Next year we loose Texas, Texas Tech and Oklahoma on the schedule, we have North Dakota State, New Mexico State, KSU (with LB's another year older), OSU( possibly without Dez Bryant) Texas A&M at home. Georgia Tech will be tough at home, as well as Southern Miss on the road. Baylor's QB is coming off knee surgery and I don't know about their defense, but if for once KU plays a full game down there that could be a winnable game, NU looses Suh and just how good is thier QB gonna be, and ISU is hard for me to gage.

I really hope that Perkins retains Mangino for the next season because the one thing KU football has lacked in its history is consistancy, once a coach has a disappointing season, then they are booted out and have to start over with a new coach, and we go through rebuilding KU into a respectable football program all over again. when's the spring game!

Rock Chalk Jayhawks Go KU!

November 30, 2009 at 7:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

plasticJHawk (anonymous) says...

unfortunately, and I think that everyone understands this, this controversy likely won't end abruptly. Most people would agree that the purpose of the investigation is so that the Athletic Department can gain leverage to negotiate a buyout. I expect that Lew Perkins will let this drag out as long as he has to in order to better position himself for the negotiations.

All of that being said, I'm still excited to see next year's team and how these guys respond, no matter who's barking orders and calling plays from the sideline. We have a lot of talent on the team that didn't get much of a chance to shine this year. Webb and Pick will battle for the QB spot. Someone will step up as a receiver opposite McDougald, maybe Daymond Patterson. Toben can carry the load for us. Biere will be an excellent TE, and the O-line will only get better.

The improvement that we saw midway through the season on defense may not have been great, but it was improvement. And it was because we put in the young players. That is a good sign for us moving forward as well. The re-emergence of Chris Harris and the talent of Lubbock Smith and some guys who we didn't see, i.e. Prinz Kande, and others, along with Huldon Tharp, and the other returning players is favorable for us.

November 30, 2009 at 8:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kackley (anonymous) says...

Jhawkjunkie Well Said agrre with you 100 percent and Placticjhawk I agree with you also. I want to see us retain MM, return Bowen to special teams. They were really good under him, lousy the last 2 years. Let him be associate defensive cordinator, bring in a new cordinator. I feel we have a lot of talent returning, with immergence of the offensive line our offense will be very good. We have some talented young kids who will be playing on Defense. There is only one reason for the investigation to continue to run. Williams has had plenty of time to gether evidence. MM is either guilty of unrepairable greavances or he is not. To continue to draw this out is just Lew Perkins trying to get the upper hand in a buyout. I think the buyout on Perkins himself should be quick.

November 30, 2009 at 8:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lighthawk (anonymous) says...

folks on both sides do we have consensus on these points:

1. Mr. Cellar Dwellar is done as our coach. with or without abuse, his tenure is finished.
2. The sooner, rather than later, we get replacement in place the better for KU.
3. Whether he gets $6 million, $600k, or nothing ( due to actions clause in his contract) depends upon the leverage from the discovery in the investigation/report. If no actions worthy of termination, then he is still gone but with more money, on other hand if a pile of (so far unrevealed) abuse, he gets less money.

So, the report is about his 'goodbye' money, not whether he stays or departs. We all get that, right? Once you get to that pov, then quit arguing about 'her' qualifications, as the report is JUST about the departure funding. How much you will be paying our ex-coach.

Does anyone think the report is about his staying or going, or do we all agree the report and what it finds is about how much his departure will cost us all?

I get it that many of you think he 'should' be retained, what I don't know, is that if any of you believe there is even a remote chance that he will be retained, even with a clean report & Lew change of heart about the big guy, does anyone think that option is left available?

November 30, 2009 at 8:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lieutenant (anonymous) says...

Whether you're for or against retaining Mangino, time is of the essence. Each day Perkins lingers and dithers, our rercruiting is hurt. Also, right now we aren't sure whether there will be any defections with the current team which will hinge upon the decision. I fully realize why Lou Perkins wants to go through all the necessary legal requirements if Coach Mangino is fired. The best situation for all concerned would be for Mangino to resign and accept a sizable settlement instead of dragging it out. It would be in his best interests to do that too. He has been a commendable assistant for major programs and probably would wind up one again.

November 30, 2009 at 8:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MitchumMan (anonymous) says...

I honestly don't think MM will be gone if Lew doesn't get him to resign or he finds evidence that MM has gone too far with players. MM is a stubborn man and will hold his ground (which he should). Lew won't get rid of him if he has to pony up the rest of his contract. 6M is too much to just throw at a coach when you have to turn around and pay another one.

Lew, make up your mind quick so we can keep recruiting! If we lose a recruiting class, that'll hurt us more than anything! Especially with some of the great recruits that have already orally committed.

November 30, 2009 at 8:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

troutsee (anonymous) says...

I think there will be an announcement either today or tomorrow. 2010 season tickets with bonus Williams points attached to them went on sale this AM at 6 AM through today only. This makes me think that Lew wants to get as many tickets sold for next year as possible before announcing the conclusion to this drama. I am behind Lew. He knows how to get the bucks, which build the facilities and hires the coaches, who then influence recruiting and hopefully all of this leads to B12 wins and some championships. I certainly think our goal has to be B12 championships and not 4 victories over the "Little Sisters of the Poor" programs and then nabbing a couple of B12 wins. Our goals must be lofty for us to have sustained success. I am behind Lew all the way.

November 30, 2009 at 8:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lighthawk (anonymous) says...

I don't gamble on sports so can't substantiate, a pal claimed the last two years we beat the 'spread' almost all the time and this year, we hardly did so.

any truth and for you speculators does it mean anything?

I don['t see the tie in... even in conspiracies, I don't get it.

anyone care to illuminate

November 30, 2009 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nebhawk77 (anonymous) says...

wanted: Head football coach who can recruit Division I players in a BCS conference,
systematically develop the abilities of players recruited, hire and administer top-notch assistant coaches, devise overall winning strategy for team, manage game calling and decision making in accordance with sound football theory.

background: The University of Kansas is 35 miles from the KC Metro Area of 1.5 million people. It is one of the finest universities in the U.S. It has made marked improvements to its football facilities. It has a new workout facility. It's stadium holds
50 thousand plus, and new luxury seating is going in in the very near future.

salary: $2.5 million dollars, (no. 15 nationally)

contact: Lew Perkins, AD, Kansas University, Lawrence, KS.

November 30, 2009 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bobsarobot (anonymous) says...

Lew Perkins doesn't have a ton of options for hiring a coach immediately if he gets rid of Mangino this week. Most teams are still playing or getting ready for bowl games or moving on in their careers. This is not a great time to be calling coaches about taking the KU job. He probably doesn't want to let Mangino go and not have a replacement already lined up.

Lew probably wants to see what shakes out once teams start playing bowl games and what moves are going to take place across Division I.

November 30, 2009 at 9:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawkguy (anonymous) says...

Lew got flack for sitting back on the KU FB vs KU BB fight, when he should of been kickin' ass. In the wake of that, he got this Mangino mess out of control when he could of kept better tabs on it in-house.

Lew needs to start thinking about situations independently and doing what is best for the individual circumstances. His track record now is to to go public with everything to issue a statement saying "were are investigating the situation."

How so 2009 of him... I wonder if Lew is an AD or politician sometimes?

November 30, 2009 at 9:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WilburNether (anonymous) says...

The athletic department's marketing slogan for this football season was "History Awaits."

That was spot on. Has there ever been another team in the history of Kansas football that started 5-0, and then proceeded to lose its last seven? Five of which it could and should have won? That's history, all right, courtesy of Coach Mangino.

November 30, 2009 at 9:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jhawkjunkie (anonymous) says...

Would there be an investigation, not if the football team dropped 7 games in a row, if Perkins Gridiron Club had sold like he expected it to? If he fires Mangino, he needs to hire a coach that the people with the big bucks to get into that club will pay to see.

rock chalk jayhawks go ku

November 30, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lighthawk (anonymous) says...

toutsee, what's your bet:
Will we the Mark report ever see the light of day?
Won't another program wanting MM as an assistant coach be liable if they hire him, don't see the report, and some wild chance incident happens?

that is why I was wrong & made a poor assumption he would rather live ...and felt he would get it and resign before the report got under way, to portect his hirability, once the AD made that shot across his bow. Yet with his stance "die on my feet rather than live in the foxhole, under cover, like battle wise folks" states his position on the matter. He's not resigning and likely would lose big $ if he did, so he can't.

now he is firing back at AD, saying you got the report of worthy actions for cause on my part, I don't think so, go ahead with it I'm standing pat.

Clinton held same position, I did nothing wrong and didn't lie to grand jury, until his DNA showed up on the blue dress. Will MM have to see the video from campus security of him choking a parking lot attendant before he departs or is impeached?

Some of you are asking how Clinton and Mark relate. Here's how: the cases where the facts are not in question are usually settled before trial. The ones where the facts are in question or where the party isn't truthfully revealing to their agents, advocates and attorneys are the ones that lead to impeachment trail or fought to the bitter end. Mark if Lori has the goods, be sure and share with your agents, and don't feed them the same bunk you are feeding the press.

the game of chicken continues while the program & recruiting is suspended

November 30, 2009 at 10:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hawkinator (anonymous) says...

ESPN has an article for only SI insiders titled "briscoe undecided about NFL"... why would he stay after this year? anyone have access to that article??

also thinking its too bad that toben got so little playing time this year. i know he had the late season injury but he could have really made a difference in earlier games if they let him play more. like his style more than jakes.

i wonder what the final legacy of the seniors this year will be... history awaits?

November 30, 2009 at 10:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

TrueBlue92 (anonymous) says...

sgtjb123 -- couldn't agree more.

jhawkjunkie -- call me a homer also.

Dugan -- "With the exception of backup running back Toben Opurum and receiver Bradley McDougald, the team doesn’t return a true game-changer on offense" In other words, Kansas returns two game changers on offense. Really, do you have to spin this hard, or is it in your job title?

I think we can get to a bowl game next year. I just hope if it's not Mangino that it's also not any of the defensive staff because they can't teach defensive fundamentals for crap. Every attempt at tackling starts with arms out front reaching for the shoulder pads. Horrible.

November 30, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

TrueBlue92 (anonymous) says...

This will be a record year for juniors going into the NFL draft. With the possibility of structured rookie salaries in place with the next CBA this could be the last big payoff draft for the NFL.

I will be shocked if Briscoe stays. extremely happy, but shocked.

November 30, 2009 at 10:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

OakvilleJHawk (anonymous) says...

Lets tally up the season and check out the final score:

1] First five game victories tempered by quality of opponent and, if a last second pass is one yard shorter, a loss to Iowa State and no Big Twelve victories.

2] Off the field issues with the the football players battling the basketball players. {I don't care who started it and how many or how few were involved...it gave Kansas a black eye]

3] Playing your key player [Reesing] injured which indicates lack of concern for the player and lack of flexibilty in team strategy.

4] Losing seven games in a row in which we were either destroyed or had a good chance to win and blew it!!

5] Internal investigation or witch hunt of head coach, depending on your point of view, that destroyed all focus on this season.

6] No measurable improvement on the the team over the long run...what was good, stayed good [offense]...what was bad, stayed bad [defense, special teams]

7] Coaching and coordinator decisions that ranged from "head scratching" to "mind blowing." [see last two minutes of Mizzou game as an example]

8] Continued failure in league games especially against the South.

conclusion: There is no way this team should not have won at least eight games. If it was the players, it falls on recruiting thus the coaching. If it was game planning and management, it falls on the coordinators thus the coaching. If coaching is the issue, the only rational solution is to, not only rebuild the team but also rebuild the coaching staff.

Mark has made himself an obstacle to large to continue. he must go!!

[i truly appreciate the hole Mark has dug Kansas out of but it's time to go to the next level and that will take the next level of coaching. The problem is, can we lure a five star coach like we lure five star athletes?

November 30, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

thmdmph (anonymous) says...

Todd Reesing and Kerry Meier are the biggest studs walking on Mt. Oread. I don't know what their personal characters are like, but on the public side of things, these guys are role models. Amazing team players. It's said that characters are built during adversaries and these guys definitely have characters.

November 30, 2009 at 10:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

thmdmph (anonymous) says...

Strikewso, Maxhawk and okiedave - make sure you go back to yesterday's article and read my comments. You shouldn't walk away from your postings yesterday without further feedbacks.
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2009/no...

November 30, 2009 at 10:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hawkinator (anonymous) says...

yo todd is a party animal.... a good guy too, but it should be noted.

November 30, 2009 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lighthawk (anonymous) says...

strikeso, maxhawk & okiedave pls note Mr thmdmph valentine to you guys is posted under 'not on his knees' article.

November 30, 2009 at 11:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MistaJRock (anonymous) says...

browsing through the comments and reading about all the studs we are losing...

we were 1-7 - worst team in the big 12... WORST.

briscoe is a great receiver but cost us HUGE with 2 fumbles.

the season ending meltdown along with the game-ending-play-calling against MU was atrocious.

its been 2 days and i am still upset.
HCMM has been good for the program but it may be time to go.

November 30, 2009 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

troutsee (anonymous) says...

lighthawk--good thoughts. The report probably won't see the light of day. MM will stand strong as 6M is at stake. This will take time and will be negotiated after he is terminated. Surely, the termination will come soon although we are at an awkward time right now for reasons mentioned in an above post. Once he is terminated, we better have our ducks in a row to hang onto the recruits that have orally committed. MM needs the bucks so he can take a year or two off until the dust settles and then maybe get back into coaching as an assistant. My guess is that he is in a difficult to defend situation but so is the University, as the accusations might be difficult to prove in a court of law. Thus, the negotiations. In the meantime, the pressure is on Lew to move on.

November 30, 2009 at 11:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lighthawk (anonymous) says...

Headline:Uncertainty surrounds Kansas football

is it true Nolan Cromwell seen in Wichita visiting #1 USA RB recruit to de.commit to Tennessee join him in Lawrence in new run based offensive scheme?

how can a wichita kid go to SEC.

November 30, 2009 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lighthawk (anonymous) says...

Stoops takes old pal MM to Notre Dame as off. line coach, Lew works out separation agreement where coach leaves with reputation intact and no costs $ to Kansas as N Dame has money to burn even for assistants.

Kansas has $6m to invest in new coach and staff.

Phone records indicate Stoops and Mark had this in the works via agents since beginning of conf. play, hence the failed to achieve expectations for both schools.

folks this is a blog, alice in wonderland, don't take anything here too seriously.

November 30, 2009 at 12:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

packywacky88 (anonymous) says...

I am still upset about Saturday's game. My 4 year old could have coached KU better. MM appears to be a decent recruiter and developer, but too may "what the hell are you thinking" moments this year. My fear is we will slide back to the old days when the band would chant "wait 'till basketball" as we were getting the snot beat out of us. I do like where MM has taken the program, but it is time to find someone with a better football IQ.

November 30, 2009 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

KANSTUCKY (anonymous) says...

Everybody needs to troll through their previous postings and audit any contradictory remarks. COME ON!!!

November 30, 2009 at 12:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jahawkdave (anonymous) says...

The problem with Mangino has to do with size.

Settle down everyone who thinks I'm talking about Mangino's weight, we all ready know that topic is off limits. However, according to MM is acceptable to talk about alcoholic dad's, homies getting shot, and drinking out of brown bags in the ghetto...

No, I'm talking about the size of Mangino's ego. MM thinks his way is the best way, the only way. Because of the Orange bowl and back to back bowl wins, MM thinks Jayhawk Nation should thank it's lucky stars that we have the Mangenius! He is such a proud and upstanding individual he would rather die standing than live on his knees. He would also get ticketed parking in a loading zone than walk a ticketless 1/2 block.

Hey, I'm fine with a coach having a big ego, that's what it take to sell your program and get recruits and players to buy into your philosophy. W

However, when your ego get bigger than you, then you have a problem. MM thinks he's better than his Assts. better than his players, better than his boss, better than parking officers, better than players & parents, better than all of you and me. I sometimes think he puts himeself above KU all together. He wants it to be his way, but takes no responsibility when his way results in an investigation, last place, 7 losses in a row... he blames injuries, bad parents, poor play...

I think Mark has done some good things and some bad things, I don't think he is a fantastic coach, he's above average. I don't think he is a very nice person and has some anger issues, but I also don't think he is as terrible and racist as his comments suggest. I think he let his success go to his head.

Mark Mangino would rather go out seeing KUFB completely implode, than to acknowledge his mistakes and try to mend some fences, he has taken 100% credit for the successes and 0% for the failures.

Thanks Mark, for the Orange Bowl and the complete embarassement, last place finish, PR nightmare this season has been.

November 30, 2009 at 12:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

number1jayhawker (anonymous) says...

If Nolan Cromwell is trying to lure Brown to switch to another school, it would be to aTm, not KU.

November 30, 2009 at 12:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

grandpa (anonymous) says...

lighthawk & troutsee. Good points. I supervised lawsuits for a number of years. We are going to see more come out of this investigation. Perkins had to do what he did. Otherwise, negligence mounts against him and the University. Mangino is going to
continue to make some poor personal decisions as he made some poor coaching decisions.

November 30, 2009 at 12:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jhokfan (anonymous) says...

My guess, preseason picks will have us at or near the bottom of the north so we won’t be burdened with a high level of expectation. We could go 2-2 in non-con. Can’t take Baylor or Iowa State for granted, they are both road games. It will be interesting to see what talent has been waiting in the wings. Say what you will about MM, he has improved the talent level since he arrived and has been quite good at getting the most out of what he has.

November 30, 2009 at 1:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Papoon (anonymous) says...

Good job, OakvilleJhawk. Summed up my thoughts.

November 30, 2009 at 1:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jhokfan (anonymous) says...

Oakville:

I believe the answer to your question is no. There is nothing in the last four decades of KU football to give us reason to believe we can lure a 5 star coach. If that’s all it takes, why haven’t we done just that. We will get a mid-major head coach or a bcs oc/dc and when they achieve a modest degree of success they will bolt for a better program.

November 30, 2009 at 1:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jahawkdave (anonymous) says...

Anyone ever notice Mangino has an entire section titled Controversy on his Wikipedia page? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Man...

4 Controversy
-4.1 Lincoln High controversy
-4.2 High school referee incident
-4.3 2004 Kansas-Texas game
-4.4 NCAA penalties and probation
-4.5 Internal Investigations

Seriously who says KU can't do better than a last play coach who is generating more negative press for KU than positive? Why would any recruit sign to play for this guy after this year?

Yes, wiki does mention his Asst Coach and Coach of the year awards, but how much weight does that carry after the trumoil and losses this season.

November 30, 2009 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lighthawk (anonymous) says...

http://www.kansascity.com/842/story/1...

November 30, 2009 at 3:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hawkman1031 (anonymous) says...

MM brought us the Orange Bowl, among other things. That creates loyalty among real fans. If they fire MM, season tickets will drop off, starting with mine.

November 30, 2009 at 3:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kudon1974 (anonymous) says...

The most difficult thing to do as an AD is to fire a popular fairly successful coach who has made great progress in taking an annually flushable football program to great success. Our football program is in the same place KU basketball was in during the Ted Owen tenure. Ted recruited great players, was a marginal game coach always winning just enough Big 8 Championships with an occassional NCAA berth. However, he was never going to take KU to the elite levels of annual National Championship contention.

Enter Larry Brown and unheralded Roy Willams. The rest is history.

KU football is in a great place; it has good players, great facilities, and a great school. It should no longer be acceptable to get good results at any cost. We need to move on to getting great results, doing all the right things..............the right way. It can be done, even in football.

Thanks to MM for transforming our team to a winner; but his EGO and mediocre play to play game day decisions must go. But it is time for LP to move on to an annual Big 12 contender.

November 30, 2009 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

shelleysue (anonymous) says...

The legacy of the 2009 seniors will be "greatness". In the grand scheme of things they didn't disappoint - ever. Most of you cannot or refuse to look past the last part of this season. That's really too bad because there has been a lot to be thankful for during the 2009 senior's careers at KU and even years before that. I've said this before - I choose to focus on everything us fans have had to be thankful for and not agonize over the wins we thought we should have had. Life really is more fun when you focus on the good things. I suggest that you try it.

November 30, 2009 at 4:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

troutsee (anonymous) says...

MM has done a good job. Not great. But, good. And he has worked very, very hard to the detriment of his health. He used to play racquet ball to keep his weight somewhat in check. He has really balooned since being HC. So, getting terminated might be the best thing for MM. He's in his mid-50's and probably won't live another ten years in his present habitus. If I was him, I'd shoot for the most money I could get from KU and then deal with the weight issue. Since he is morbidly obese, he will probably need some sort of surgical procedure to lose. If he doesn't, he probably won't see 65.

November 30, 2009 at 4:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lighthawk (anonymous) says...

shelly I agree I'm thankful for the seniors and the great memories and that this is Mark's last year here.

Good points.

November 30, 2009 at 5:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HawkfromHays (anonymous) says...

"The legacy of the 2009 seniors will be "greatness". In the grand scheme of things they didn't disappoint - ever."

Did you watch any of the games in the second half of the season? This is undoubtedly the best senior class in recent history, but come on, they were expected to win 9 games and take the North. I'd say that 5-7 (1-7) and last place in the conference is a little disappointing.

I'm just as sad to see them go but 12-1 and an Orange Bowl does not "greatness" make, unless that term is used relatively. Other than that year, we were 19-18 in the past four.

November 30, 2009 at 6:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jhawkfan1981 (anonymous) says...

i am a die hard ku fan, live, breathe, everything kansas. not only b-ball and f-ball, but baseball and all the womans sports. but i cant help but think this university has gotten spoiled, (which can be a good thing, but not in this case), and forgotten what mangino has done for this program. i remember not looking forward to football..having to listen to the games on a.m. radio..and yelling at the radio at so-called bad plays or bad calls. now every game is on nat'l tv..bowl games..that was a once in a 5 year thing..not now. but now that the season didnt go well..not as planned, and they were too hyped up in the beginning..people want him out.even if the things are true of what past players say, which none of us know, its not worth his firing. but now that lew and the media have made these things public..it hurts recruiting, and everyones image..true or not..the university has to let him go for the sake of the program, which HE built. seems unfair to me..he has handled this with class, and every coach that knows him said he would..good luck to both, mangino and ku...but i will miss watching the team i love on tv rather than on the radio.

November 30, 2009 at 6:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Goldenhawk (anonymous) says...

This investigation is very sad for KU football. MM has helped KU and they still have a respectable program. Why throw in the towel? MM is one of the most talented coaches in KU history.

It is silly having these witch hunt investigations as obviously he has a serious physical and mental problem. KU needs to step to the plate and help MM. KU should provide medical help and get him on a diet and counseling before it is too late. America as a whole has become an obese nation leading to high medical costs to our insurance. KU should set an example and lead by helping and not by hurting by firing.

I do question the mental and physical toughness of some of our players as if they can not take a push or some off the wall comment from the coach they should not be playing. Some of MM's comments to players may not be appropriate though they should confront him in a way that expresses the hurt he caused. Why jump to the AD and press?

Next year might be a rebuilding year. Keep MM and help him and he will return the rewards of success!

November 30, 2009 at 7:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jhokfan (anonymous) says...

JH81:

You might be onto something. I said to myself after our Orange Bowl/NC season, it will never get any better than this. Some thought this would be a repeat of that magical season.

Now we have to contend with very high expectations from b-ball. As good as our b-ball team is, chances are we won't be cutting down the nets in Indy. I hope we do, I'm just saying the odds are against us.

November 30, 2009 at 7:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

gratefulhawk (anonymous) says...

the waters have been muddied.... move on... rock chalk!

November 30, 2009 at 7:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

drewdun (anonymous) says...

Jesus Christ. Some of the comments on here are so idiotic they make me seriously question whether humanity will survive for another fifteen years. Yes, MM has taken Kansas from bottom dweller to Orange Bowl champions....to bottom dweller. What part of "last place in the worst BCS conference division" do you not understand? And the person who says "next year might be a rebuilding year..." For God's sake, what would a rebuilding year look like after this year? 0-12? If the university keeps Mark Mangino as its head football coach we'll win 3 games AT MOST next year and then be one more year behind as he'll be fired and the new coach will have to start, in essence, a year later than he should have. Fire him now, get it over with, and get the new coach in here to start recruiting and building for the future.

I just can't wrap my mind around people saying "remember when Kansas was a cellar dweller and MM took us to the next level?" We finished in last place in the most anticipated season in school history! We ARE cellar dwellers! Basically these people are saying "we just can't be any better than mediocre" "we can't get anyone half-decent" [because that's exactly what Mangino is, HALF decent] "we're JUST Kansas." We can have a winner here, and we will. Football is now on people's minds here, and for that I guess we should thank HCMM. So, thanks. Now move on and so will we. People will still love to come to Lawrence and tailgate for football with or without Coach Mangino. I think people finally realized what a neglected gem we had in our football team and how fun Saturdays on the Hill are. That will live beyond HCMM. Football at KU is NOT going away, and the doubters can suck it. We'll win without Mangino. We really couldn't do much worse than this season, now could we?

Anyone that defends him after the playcalling and disastrous defense in the second half on Saturday, let alone this abortion of a season, should have their head examined. We're a joke, once again. Wrap your head around it, accept it, and let's move on with new leadership to begin building for a Big 12 title run.

November 30, 2009 at 7:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MNHawk23 (anonymous) says...

drewdun- i couldnt agree more. thank you

November 30, 2009 at 7:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

skwahjayog (anonymous) says...

Amen, Drewdun! It's time to move on--and the longer we wait, the longer it's going to take!

November 30, 2009 at 7:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jhokfan (anonymous) says...

Drewdun:

We have been doing exactly that for 4 decades, firing our head coach and moving on. How has that worked out so far? If we could hire a better coach who would not use us as a means to improve his resume I would be in your corner. In spite of some disappointing seasons MM has also shown that he can produce winning football. It's probably a moot point but I think it is in KU's best interest to keep him.

November 30, 2009 at 8:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HawkfromHays (anonymous) says...

jhok:

I share your anxiety over a good coach using us as a stepping-stone. However, the difference between now and the past 4 decades is that now we have an AD ready to "invest"(pun intended) in the football program. We finally have good football facilities and have gotten some good national exposure (uh, maybe that was unfortunate this year) in the past few seasons.

I think we can continue to win even if Mangino is fired. After all the money spent on the program and all of the controversy generated over the investigation (which is not a witch hunt) Lew simply will not let us remain mediocre.

I would however like to re-state what I have been saying all along; I still think Mangino should be given one more year. We have at least 15 regular starters returning, maybe Briscoe, and a few other guys who started a couple games. Combine that with a weak conference schedule and who knows? I think he has earned it by bringing us from awful to mediocre, and even to the edge of being a good team most years.

Yes, the Mizzou game was bad for coach because of the last series. However, some perspective: the 1st down call wasn't as horrible as everyone thinks. It was a chance to catch them off guard and put the game out of reach. It was the 2nd down call that hurt the most. 3rd down didn't go so well either, but the QB draw had been working for us the past few weeks so that wasn't a horrible call either. As for the rest of the games in the losing streak, certainly MM made some mistakes, but can you really blame him for not being able to overcome costly turnovers almost every week? The gifts we consistently coughed up to teams inside our own red zone were not his fault.

November 30, 2009 at 8:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

gratefulhawk (anonymous) says...

coach's are hired to be fired..today 10 years as a d.1. coach is a lifetime... so we're ahead of the curve. what would have been great was to get 10 years out of john outland as our head coach. you know, outland trophy. i have always and will always have a great time going to the games...rock chalk!

November 30, 2009 at 8:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

okiedave (anonymous) says...

thmdmph -- welcome to the board. What this board desparately needs is another critic. We simply do not have enough of them on this board.

It is nice to know that you have a little Neanderthal in you per your statement: "And MM has digested a lot of boys - look at him. He's going to explode." And good to know that most everybody recognizes it is humor.

However, you helped make my point. Training is the key. Sure, after a crash the newscasters run to experienced pilots to get their take on what happened, i.e. the Hudson Bay crash, the Patrick Kennedy crash. Others have been trained to investigate crashes, i.e. engineers, metallurgists, mechanics, etc. Lawyers are trained to try rape cases, medical malpractice and attend 3 years of school to do so and then usually go through training to be able to gather facts and present the facts to a jury. The key once again is training. The point that most of the posts who concur with TTU coach Leach that this is a "witch hunt" are making, or at least trying to make is that Lori has not likely been trained in the world of football coaching. One can make that assumption with a degree of safety based on the fact that she is female. Not too many females have been participants in High School, Jr. High, High School, college or Pro football, let alone gained training as a coach. Therefore, assuming she has no training on what it takes to be a good football coach, it is not likely that her report is going to be a practical objective report. I think Lori, if she is a lawyer, could probably deal with the the legal aspects of MM "eating boys" and point to his weight as factual evidence, or if MM was committing illegal acts she could quite ably point to the law prohibiting such illegal acts. However, having never been in the football coaching world, she likely does not understand what it takes to train boys, who are basically good sunday school trained boys, to play a game with violence. In football coaching, as Leach, Stoops, Bear Bryant (rest his soul) would tell you, chest poking in the history classroom is unconscionable, an assault, a battery and totally unprofessional, but on the football field it helps mold toughness in football players who need to become better educated about what they are supposed be doing. Maybe Lori understands that -- but not likely. I suggest we all wait and read her report. I just hope it is not kept confidential.

November 30, 2009 at 9:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

gratefulhawk (anonymous) says...

okiehawk, as i read your post i feel asleep and hit my head... do i have a case?

November 30, 2009 at 9:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

babyjay1 (anonymous) says...

Okiedave, are you done with the whole "female" thing yet? It's getting old - you can quit trying to defend it. Move on....

November 30, 2009 at 9:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hawkman1031 (anonymous) says...

I'm with goldenhawk, against drewdun.
Mangino brought us the Orange Bowl.
Lot of disloyal punks on here, or just tigers in disguise

I am amazed we could not pull off this win after Reesing gets 500.
500 passing. Wow. Stud.

November 30, 2009 at 9:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jhokfan (anonymous) says...

Hawkfromhays:

I counted all the close losses during Mangino’s era. 14 games that were decided by 6 points or less or in OT. Half of those took place in the first 3 years when he was building the program so I can’t hold those games against him. I can’t blame a coach for losing unless he mismanages the game or did not prepare his team properly. Most of what I remember during his tenure regarding close games is missed field goals, untimely penalties and turnovers. The most notable exception being Saturday. At some point those close losses whether by coaching error or player error have to be accounted for.

I like Mangino but I don’t love him. I think he should be given another year as well. If he does not produce next season I could not defend him any longer.

November 30, 2009 at 10:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HawkfromHays (anonymous) says...

jhok,

Mostly agree, but I would place a little more blame on the coaching staff than you. Many of those games that were lost during the building years were due, at least in part, to poor offensive play-calling. I submit to you Texas A&M in 06 and TTech in 04. In the Tech game we led late in the first half 30-5. In the second half we went into an offensive shell and didn't score another point. Against A&M we led by two scores late in the 3rd, went conservative, and watched them come back and beat us...that's why I didn't think the 1st down call was terrible up 39-36, incidentally. Games like these just seemed to repeat themselves every year under Mangino other than in 07. At some point you have to ask what's going on.

November 30, 2009 at 10:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

pb88 (anonymous) says...

mangino brought us our of the darkness. but he won't be able to take us to a top 25 program year in and year out (2 years does not count). he needs to go.

November 30, 2009 at 11:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lighthawk (anonymous) says...

Saturday arrowhead, we lead by 3 points, 1st down deep in our own territory ball on the three yard line, 2:59 seconds to victory if we can run out the clock or hold them to field goal we go to overtime.
all we hvae to do is run three plays, stay in bounds, do not fumble or throw interception, do not stop the clock so they will use their time outs. and then kick the ball to them with about 80-90 NOT 2:44 seconds to go.

14 seconds later we have run three, yes Jayhawk fans, count them all, three plays, Plus given them 2 points, the clock now stands 2:45 and we now lead not by three but only one point and we have to kick off with a punt to mid field.

last 7 games we led 4th qtr. in 4 of them.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.let's finalize this and move on...his record against the Big 12 is mediocre at best. I assume everyone in Big 12 going bowling except Baylor, Colorado and Kansas. Even Houston and TCU going to get a nice bowl game. Maybe we were having a rebuilding year.

30 years ago he coached high school in Pa, and was terminated and not invited to the post season banquet for the football team. It came out that he had the injured players clean the urinals so that they would be kept 'busy' and not idle as a lesson since they didn't practice. Now that he will not be preparing for a bowl game and not recruiting this december, maybe the new football facility will get him to clean a few urinals so he won't have idle hands.

November 30, 2009 at 11:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lighthawk (anonymous) says...

30 years ago he had his injured students clean the urinals so they wouldn't have 'idle' hands while healthy players practiced. This was his 1st season as a coach and he wasn't allowed to stay the full year and wasn't invited to the annual year end football banquet. Maybe he had kids with lackadaisical parenting.
Now he will have enought time to clean a few bathrooms around here for his $6 million.

November 30, 2009 at 11:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MNHawk23 (anonymous) says...

ive heard a phil fulmer rumor to replace mangino. anyone know anything about that?

November 30, 2009 at 11:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lone_salina_kufan (anonymous) says...

Why do people keep bringing up the Texas game as an "incident"? That WAS a bs call, and we All know it. Not to mention, each and everyone of us stood up and celebrated when Mangino refused to be pushed around b/c we're a basketball school.

Just a pet peave

December 1, 2009 at 12:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

rastameta (anonymous) says...

For the love of God, stop defending Mangino over Lew. Lew has done sooo much more for KU football than Mangino and I am someone who actually knows.

BTW, I have heard that Mangino is being stubborn and trying to stall the investigation by not meeting with Williams.

Personally, I think Mangino is an egotistical prick who would rather take KU down with him then do anything of honor. He really is more of an a-hole than anyone on this list will ever know. I used to let it slide, because I thought he was bringing discipline, but the more I talk to players and administrators the more I think he is the biggest a-hole to ever coach at KU.

December 1, 2009 at 2:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

beebe1 (anonymous) says...

Hey, I trust rastameta!

+

December 1, 2009 at 9 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

okiedave (anonymous) says...

Mangino has worked hard, brought in some good recuits and taken us to successive bowl games. Lew needs to honor his contract with MM. Either give him his guarantee or allow him to coach. Stop the silly witch hunt to find some "cause". Mangino has put in too many dedicated hours and worked too hard to be treated in this manner. K.U. needs to salvage it's own integrity in this matter.

December 1, 2009 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

shelleysue (anonymous) says...

Hawkfromhays Yes - I believe greatness describes this group. By reading these comments I totally understand that many of you are perfect and cannot tolerate those who are less than. This year's class of seniors has done as much if not more for KU football than anyone in the past. The disrespect they are getting here is a disgrace. As is the disrespect given Mangino. He didn't give us everything but he gave us a hell of a lot more than we had when he arrived. Maybe he is a prick. None of us will ever know because none of us know him personally. Everyone who knows him has an opinion, some good, some bad. rastameta - I do know someone who worked with the football team one season and they never saw Mangino act as he is being portrayed.

This year's outstanding seniors had the season they did due in part to the fact that they didn't have enough support elsewhere on the field. Injuries didn't help either. Personally I think our expectations were too high given what the team did NOT have. Give me one game - just one when they failed to excite us at some point. Whether it was Todd escaping defender after defender or Meier making a diving catch or Sharp slipping through the defense for a big gain or Stucky making a great play... Every game they gave us something to get excited about even if we didn't win the game in the end. Reesing was a player no one wanted and look what he made of himself and KU football. Sharp was a good kid on and off the field as were others. Meier - He came to Kansas expecting to command the team to greatness and his dreams were shattered. Most kids in his position would developed a serious attitude then taken his game to another school. He honored his commitment to KU with an exceptional attitude and a smile on his face and became one of the best receivers ever. He amazed us each and every week with what he could do. What an amazing example of a young man. Meier has been vocal in his support for Mangino and given his outstanding character I think his opinion should be respected.

If they fire Mangino and KU football doesn't meet all your expectations - and it won't - please do not come back on here and complain about anything. In attempting to build a great program / bring in a new coach, there will be a slow start and it won't be pretty. There will ups and downs, both when you least expect it. Things will be good, then a set-back will occur and it will go back and forth several times before it levels out. It's just the way it is. All of these will more than likely happen with a new coach as well so prepare yourselves.

December 1, 2009 at 9:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HawkfromHays (anonymous) says...

Shelleysue-

I have actually maintained the whole time that Mangino should be given another year. But "greatness" does not describe this group. They did a lot for KU football but I don't think they raised it to the level of greatness. Most of them didn't play in 06, 07 was a good (not great) team, 08 was mediocre and somewhat disappointing, and 09 was a complete disaster. How can you attach the title of "greatness" to a team that finished last in the conference? That makes no sense. These are facts, not disrespect.

December 1, 2009 at 9:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

shelleysue (anonymous) says...

Hays - I see the glass as half full and apparently you are a half empty type of personality. I look at the things they've accomplished. Maybe the 2007 team wasn't great compared to Florida but they were great compared to the teams they played and compared to previous KU teams. They helped make KU football fun again and helped fill the stadium on Saturday. They did great things for our program. They made the national spotlight and won a BCS bowl. I think of the great times I've had over the past few years, all the exciting plays, last year's Missouri win, the Orange Bowl ... I focus on the great things not the things that didn't work out. If you don't consider all of those things great, then you would probably be less frustrated if you weren't a KU football fan.

Look at Oklahoma's year. Very disappointing. I guess we also cannot consider that group as great.

December 2, 2009 at 10:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )