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Monday, November 23, 2009

Keegan

Probe timing curious

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The timing is one of the strangest facets of the Kansas University athletic department’s investigation into football coach Mark Mangino’s treatment of his players. Why in the world couldn’t it wait until the end of the season? Why the urgency to jump-start it with two weeks remaining in the season?

One possible explanation is that once the athletic department became aware of complaints from parents of players, past and current, the university became liable for any potential negative consequences in the event the coach repeated the complained-about behavior. If that is indeed the case, the complaints issued surely centered on behavior far more serious than a coach’s finger in a player’s chest. This theory on why the investigation couldn’t wait for the end of the season only flies if there is a smoking gun and if the complaints differed greatly in magnitude from gripes from seasons past.

What isn’t clear is what other incidents were discussed and by whom they were brought to the attention of athletic director Lew Perkins. Arist Wright, when contacted by assistant athletic director Chris Howard about an incident with Mangino, cooperated, but it’s not known what else made Perkins call a meeting with the players and what made him assign assistant AD/risk management Lori Williams to conduct an investigation.

When will The Williams Report be concluded and digested? When big money is at stake — and $6 million-plus counts, even in the Monopoly-money world of big-time college athletics — wording everything carefully becomes imperative. An investigative report one day could become a legal document the next.

If Mangino is terminated — which nearly is akin to saying, “If the sun comes up in the morning” — Kansas will do so with cause in an attempt to save the remaining $6 million-plus on his contract. Mangino then can go through the appeal process spelled out in his contract and if he loses there can try to recover his money in court.

Mangino said Tuesday that he and Perkins talked for “10 or 15 minutes.” If the fly on the wall had ears and vocal cords, maybe it would tell us that Perkins told Mangino he had the goods on him to fire him with cause and offered to negotiate a buyout, which might have saved Mangino the embarrassment of former players going public with their bitter feelings about him. Maybe the fly could have told us that Mangino, either on the spot or after talking to an attorney, decided to roll the dice and go for all the money. If that’s the case, it amounts to a legal battle between a pair of stubborn men.

Maybe Perkins and Mangino could get together face-to-face over cigars as they did when Perkins told his coach why it was a mistake to accuse the game officials of stacking the deck in the favor of Texas after a controversial call swung the outcome in favor of the Longhorns in 2004. Not likely at this point.

When trying to determine whether Mangino will coach the Missouri game, think like an attorney, not a sports fan. There are six million reasons not to rush Mangino out the door just so someone else coaches the Missouri game. The shorter the investigation takes, the more the athletic department could be open to charges that it had a pre-determined outcome.

Comments

Blake Post 4 years, 9 months ago

timing stinks. Admittedly without all of the facts, I think it is a head hunt.

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Aaron Carpenter 4 years, 9 months ago

When Coach Mangino is gone (is seems enevitably so now) he will be missed. I would like to thank him for his wonderful service to this university and creating a winning attitude here. I hope that people are forever grateful or that. Rock Chalk

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DCJayhawk0208 4 years, 9 months ago

There has been extensive talk (and reporting) about this issue on both Rock Chalk Talk and Oread Boom Kings. The larger issue is the coercion of players to come back to early from injuries or lose playing time when they are healthy. The instigating incident is a current player who has been cleared to play but has an undisclosed (to the public) knee injury. He and his family were concerned he was doing significant damage to the knee and went to the coaching staff and then the athletic department.

Considering this is a player safety issue, it certainly seems reasonable to also consider it a student safety issue, meaning that the Chancellor has likely gotten involved and forced some of the situation.

And, if it is indeed a concern about future injury to players because they feel like they can't admit when they are injured, that is certainly a reason for a mid-season firing "with cause."

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Mike Tackett 4 years, 9 months ago

DCJay-you are a fool. When it comes to medical issues there is no black and white. You have players play, when they shouldn't (the player wants to play) and players not play when they should (they are soft). It's just like going to work, some folks work when they are sick and some folks have never worked a day in their lives. How do you factually prove "with cause", you can't, it's an opinion. Football is a violent game, guys get hurt. If you don't want to get hurt, don't play. The one fact we do know, is Lew wants MM gone at no expense to the university. The loss one way or the other will be the greatest on the football field. Can you say 2-10 or 3-9 in 2010? Wait, it might be 4-8 we have the soft side of the South next year.

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Rick Arnoldy 4 years, 9 months ago

If they waited until after the season just to start the investigation, it would delay the coaching search and leave the current recruits hanging or dropping KU altogether while there's still scholarships available elsewhere. It's as simple as that.

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jakzhumans 4 years, 9 months ago

hoosierhawk - Of course there are varying degrees of injury and varying degrees of work ethic among the players, but that has nothing to do with whether or not Mangino has fostered an environment where legitimately injured players are unable to honestly reveal the extent of their injury for fear of losing their job, or gone even further and forced players to play despite medical advice to the contrary. If there is even a single instance of Mangino disregarding a player's injury against medical advice and telling him to suit up or be benched, then he should be terminated. I don't believe we have enough information to know if that happened right now, but it's certainly a legitimate cause to launch an investigation if accusations of that type have been made. I work in the insurance/risk management industry, and trust me, KU is at risk for a lot more than the $6+ million they owe Mangino if they fail to act on these kinds of reports and someone gets even more seriously injured because of Mangino's actions.

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minnhawk84 4 years, 9 months ago

Keegan: Would you quit this "Mangino is already gone" routine? So what if you are right in the end? Innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt -- he is being tried in the court of public opinion and you are beginning to sound like the prosecutor or, even worse, tampering with the jury (your readers).

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Dyrk Dugan 4 years, 9 months ago

"The instigating incident is a current player who has been cleared to play but has an undisclosed (to the public) knee injury. He and his family were concerned he was doing significant damage to the knee and went to the coaching staff and then the athletic department."

DC, this goes way beyond what has been talked about in the press....a poke in the chest, and public, personal ridicule of players. like someone said above, if this happened one time, he would be gone. Your quote says "cleared to play"...by whom? the doctors? the trainers? his local herbalist? that's a big statement, because if you mean our doctors cleared him, and the player believes or has proof otherwise that he shouldn't have been cleared, then we're talking major damages here. and serious liability for the school.

and so this would go way past Mark Mangino.....or he is the ultimate ruthless coach.

i always go back to Jason Swanson...a JUCO transfer QB for KU back in 2004 and '05. He had some big moments with us (NU first win in 37 years, came in late against KSU to break the 11 game losing streak to them), but his moments were so rare because he always hurt. he would warm up, look totally fine on the sidelines, but wouldn't play because of some injury. So i know that particular player wasn't rushed onto the field.

Now there might have been some reason he didn't play that wasn't injury related....but that was always the reason given. so this rush back to playing thing, isn't quite solid IMO.

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Cimhawk 4 years, 9 months ago

Hey Keegan.......thanks for your daily "stir the pot" article. I think you're (though highly questionable by many) a sports writer....why don't you go find alittle Jayhawk "SPORTS" info.....apparantly Mark has't kissed your a** over the years either!!! Lew and Keegan....wah....wah....wah....

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jcsmith 4 years, 9 months ago

Unfortunately, I think I have to agree with Keegan on this one. I hate to see it just as much as anyone else, but at this point in time, the damage has already been done. Mark Mangino has done miracles for this ball club and for this university. He has brought us the greatest years to date of KU Football, and we all thank him for that. But you cannot say a coach should not be held accountable for his own actions just because of what he has done for us in the past. I am not saying Coach is guilty by no means. I cant and wont say either way. But one thing that I feel is swaying this event to a 'FIRED' stamp at the end of the road is the future of KU Football. One thing AD Perkins has to assess now is, what kind of impact has this had on future recruiting if we keep Mangino. What will that show future interested recruits about our AD. That no matter what the circumstances, KU AD is all about backing up their coaches. That, what is in the best interest of the players, isnt in the best interest of the University. Ultimately, I think that is what is going to break the camels back. I dont think Mangino would be fired for a few incidents on the field. Fined yes, fired no. But it is in too much of the media now and people all over the country know about it, and that hurts. Thats what is going to decide whether Coach Mangino stays or goes. And I think the media has already made that decision.

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Steve Brown 4 years, 9 months ago

I'm confused, I thought NCAA guidlines prohibited coaches from over ruling medical 'cleared to play' status from med. trainers/ med. staff.

If a coach leaned on medical trainer or medical advisors to rush a player's status, then wouldn't more than the coach be in hot water and the university that hired the medical team overlooking players safety.

This has potential to get bigger than we know.

Campinelli soon on ebay, KU going to need some cash not just for legal teams. ouch!

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hawk4evr 4 years, 9 months ago

The only thing worse than whining players are whining parents. If the player was not cleared to play by the medical staff he would not be playing. They have taken the decision away from the coach for just this reason. Whether the AD had to investigate at the time the complaint was made is possible. He did not however have to make it public knowledge either by his actions or his words. I hope the cry baby parents are happy about throwing the entire program under the bus for their little boy.

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KANSTUCKY 4 years, 9 months ago

Some players 80% is better than another players 100%. No risk of further damage sometimes comes into play and it depends on the kid, the doctor and the trainer. It is a sport for men, not for patsies. Bullying, foul langauge, and remarks that would get anybody else in the country fired is not acceptable. Ship up or shape out.

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patrick_raftery 4 years, 9 months ago

Bill Self for Head Football Coach!

RCJHGKU!

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86finalfour 4 years, 9 months ago

Good points Keegan. But I disagree that him leaving is a foregone conclusion. And I sure hope he stays. I don't want to see another 2-3 years of losing as KU tries to rebuild.

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DCJayhawk0208 4 years, 9 months ago

Hoosier...I'm a fool, huh? Why would that be? Because I'm waiting for more information to come out? Because I have a small amount of faith that, with the optics of this situation, there has to be something that forced Perkins' hand? Or because I refuse to go along with the collective wisdom of the commenters that Mangino is a victim, that Perkins is evil, and that the University's football team and reputation are not NEARLY as important as Lew Perkins hiring "his own" football coach? Seriously, sit down and think about how RIDICULOUS that sounds.

Anyway, from reading reporting from other sites (http://oreadboomkings.fantake.com/2009/11/18/sweet-lew-just-might-be-an-evil-genius/), Mangino has fostered an atmosphere where the trainers clear people too early and if players say anything, they don't play.

Swanson was referenced above, and that might be a good example. He might have been cleared to play, but Mangino might not have played him because he complained about his injury. Just speculation there.

There's likely more here than what's public. If there's not, if this is all about Lew hiring "his guy" and the stuff about Mangino is all a ruse, I will be back to eat crow.

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KU_Alumn_2000 4 years, 9 months ago

Tom - I hardly ever become negative to sports journalists because it's not up to us to judge others. But I have to agree...you are stirring the pot and seem to feed off the drama way too much. What's sad about it...is that you love to feed off of others hurtful circumstances. You may not like Coach Mangino...but from my perspective...he has a lot more integrity than you do.

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Bill Kackley 4 years, 9 months ago

It is the medical staff (Doctors) decision as to whether a player can play or not, not the coach's. If a coach were to play a player not cleared, he should be terminated on the spot and if the doctors didn't report it, they should be terminated. I spent a lot of years, 27, coaching at the high school and the collegiate level and I never would have gone against the doctors even though quite often parents were taking the kids to regular MD's who were not qualified to make decisions on athletic injuries and the ability to play. Many basketball players at KU are playing on sprained ankles that if the kids went to your local GP they would be told stay off of it and don't play. Also I agree with the statement about parents, they have ruined HS athletics for several years, ie, I'm on the board, you didn't play my kid, your fired, etc. I hope they never get that kind of influence at the collegiate level. Most parents don't give a damn about the program, only the short term benefit to their kid, don't even take into consideration what they are doing to that kid over the long term.

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justanotherfan 4 years, 9 months ago

I don't get this at all.

Why is everyone rushing to defend Mangino?

The accusations (if true) are pretty bad IMHO.

A few months ago, Tyshawn Taylor posted some rap lyrics on his PERSONAL Facebook page, not in his capacity as a player for the Kansas basketball team, but personally. He was roundly criticized and lambasted (rightfully for the most part), and even called a thug, etc. for his poor judgment.

Now we have a coach and University employee making far more personal and inappropriate statements to the players he is charged with by the University, and he is being (for the most part) defended by the fans. Mangino is the face of the entire football program!!!!

How are we holding Tyshawn Taylor to a higher standard as a representative of the University than we are holding the head football coach?

Is this even the same fanbase?

Furthermore, the accusations that Mangino has rushed players back from injury is where the real fire is here. Even though his alleged comments and behavior are an embarassment to what the University of Kansas should stand for, the accusations of rushing guys back from injury is both unprofessional and damning.

Look no further than this season.

When did we find out Todd Reesing had a groin injury? About three weeks after it happened, after he had struggled and looked decidedly unToddlike for several ballgames in a row. And how many snaps did he miss during that time? I don't remember any.

What about Jake Sharp. He hurt his ankle early in the year. He hasn't really looked as quick or explosive since. Here's a speed back with an ankle problem, and he hasn't looked right in weeks, yet they insist he is ok.

And that's two of our best players! Coaches are there to make sure you are ready to go - physically, mentally and otherwise. Some players will play through anything, and it is the coaching staff's responsibility to sit them down if they aren't healthy, not rush them back onto the field.

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Bill Kackley 4 years, 9 months ago

justanotherfan DON'T YOU GET IT. IT ISN'T THE COACH WHO CLEARS THE PLAYER TO PLAY IT IS THE TEAM DOCTOR.

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KU_Alumn_2000 4 years, 9 months ago

Justanotherfan...that's the problem with this whole situation. There are too many accusations...rumors...and speculation being reported. Keagens job is to report facts...not power the rumor mill.

Speculation in this type of environment can be dangerous. What happens is false accusations are stirred around that are damging to people that don't deserve it. Arist wright for example...the accusation came out that he cried to perkins about getting poked in the chest...when in fact Perkins went to him.

Before anyone judges mangino...you might want to check yourself and wait for the facts to come out...instead of basing your judgement off of speculation that may be way off.

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chalky 4 years, 9 months ago

The word if was used seven times in this article,the word maybe, twice.Sometimes we can be guilty of building up straw men to knock them down, when we are not careful. We are all familiar with the advertisements that use bad camera angles,lighting, and such to put the competitions brand at a disadvantage. In the back of our mind we are angry at a product, and dont know why. We are asked to look at it while we are made to strain to see it, blurred, jumpy, and such. Of course product #1 pitchman is,not a jerk like #2 is...ahhhhh relief thank you product #1.Lets withhold judgement till justice delayed gives us a clear verdict. I wish the best for all involved. GO KU.

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d_prowess 4 years, 9 months ago

People keep saying wait to hear the facts, but everyone needs to realize that the facts will never come out. There is no way that the results of a personnel matter will see the light of day, will they?

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Layne Pierce 4 years, 9 months ago

Keegan is right about one thing. The timing makes it very apparent that in the mind of Lew Perkins, and perhaps the Chancellor, it is serious, otherwise, it makes no sense to do this before the end of the season.

Even if Lew wants to get rid of Mangino, again,he knows that the timing is awful. And he knows that going public is hurting morale, recruiting,and yes, even the image of the university.

The timing, does seem to indicate that Lew wants to make a change.

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sactownhawk 4 years, 9 months ago

I don't need to wait for the "facts" considering the number of ex-players that have spoken out. Players that we influential to our orange bowl year. So clearly mangino is not liked, even by the star players. Frankly i trust what mortensen and dexfields have to say more then anyone else in this situation. Mike Rivera wouldn't talk about the issue until he FLEW to lawrence to talk to perkins himself. Is it not weird to any of you that so many players have come out against mangino, but pretty much none have rushed to his defense?

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chalky 4 years, 9 months ago

It would be a shame if the "peoples court"....is another sourse of leverage. We probably wil never know the thoughts and intents of the heart. I hope good intentions will see things clearly as they decide things that will affect many people. We hope the decision will be based on facts. If this is overdue, let the truth come out.If it is overblown, let it fade away. GO KU

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Philip Bowman 4 years, 9 months ago

Some, in fact a lot, of the cynicism I see posted here is truly disgusting. Many are willing to can MM regardless of whether he has done anything that would constitute "cause" for doing so. Why? Because (a) we have lost 6 games in a row and (b) the pending investigation has damaged him beyond redemption--a truly self-fulfilling prophesy. We are told it was necessary to start the investigation immediately because of "safety issues." Everyone who believes this should stand on their heads and stack beebees. The real reason it was started now and leaked, indeed started to fester by the behind MM's back in a secret meeting with the team (tell me that's not meddling!) is because Perkins wants to start looking for a replacement now and not after other teams have started their own search.

Perkins should be fired, NOW. If the chancellor doesn't do so, she should be fired too. I predict the fat cats will have to come up with a whole bunch more of their "hard-earned" money (6.6+ million) to cover the payoff to MM and to hire a new coach. I guess they won't mind so long has they get to rub shoulders with jocks and coaches and sit in their luxury boxes smoking cigars and drinking booze (pleasures not allowed with the great unwashed who make up the other 49,000 fans at the games) and being pampered by pretty young people.

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316hawk 4 years, 9 months ago

I know this is going to come up so we may as well talk about it now. Someone is going to say his players that are on the team right now are standing up for him.

Well, what would you say publicly if you still had to play for him? You obviously aren't going to come out and say what he did was wrong. If you did then you wouldn't be playing and who knows what else.

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Rick Arnoldy 4 years, 9 months ago

"I don't get this at all. Why is everyone rushing to defend Mangino? The accusations (if true) are pretty bad IMHO."

justanotherfan, because right now they are still just ACCUSATIONS. Talk about guilty until proven innocent.

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sactownhawk 4 years, 9 months ago

i guess that explains why mario little is redshirting this year maxhawk.

Salthawk, stop acting like Perkins is evil, he has done more then mangino has done for this program. Mangino won national coach of the year because of reesing, who recruited mangino more then mangino recruited him. I appreciate what mangino has done, but to be honest the past 8 years have just offered us nonconference wins against cupcakes, i think even if i dare say bowen was head coach this year we would still be5-6 right now. i dont think beating northern colorado, utep, southernmiss, duke and iowa state is an amazing thing for having the most talented team in history. We can do better, perkins will do better, the investigation cant wait for reasons you say, if you want the program to succeed the investigation needs to happen right now, should i remind everyone of westvirginia fiest bowl? they just fired their coach, and oh my word, they won.

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milehighhawk 4 years, 9 months ago

Just got a text from a friend...

Evidently they were going to fire Mangino on Friday, but had to stop because the NCAA is now investigating Lew Perkins.

I would not have posted this if I didn't feel it was credible. Take it for what it's worth.

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hdhntr 4 years, 9 months ago

cracks me up that the faithful have forgotten how lousy the competition was in manmountains one good year and they were spanked by MU in the one huge national tv game for #1 in the polls. then when Lew paid the orange bowl to pass up the obvious choice tigers for game. lot of smoke and mirrors. what did mangino do with that great year as for recruiting, not much. then in the year where the mighty Todd and the best wr's in college were primed to go, too busy eating to bother recruiting a competent offensive line, so Reesing was running for his little life all year. He blew it!

Now he has always been an a**hole, that everyone agrees with but you don't believe that money bags Lew would have stepped in unless their is much more to this? Where are the recent star players coming to their HC's defense? They arn't and they know the real story of what is happening. So all you huge dude defenders? You care as much about these kids as gino does, which is not at all. Just another example of fairweather KU justwinbaby fans, disgusting. Think about if it was your kid he was rushing back when he is still injured or abusing in practice. heck even his best assitants have run for the hills. ALL of these guys know more than you, so just shut up! Oh yeah, shoot the messengers like these writers who are telling you things you don't want to know.

Put your hands over your eyes and ears and sing loudly, lah, lah, lah. Too funny. You deserve a coach who looks like he will have a heart attack at any second! The face of KU football, you must be so proud!

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Philip Bowman 4 years, 9 months ago

milehighhawk, Thanks for this post. Hope it is true.

"Evidently they were going to fire Mangino on Friday, but had to stop because the NCAA is now investigating Lew Perkins."

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coolhand357 4 years, 9 months ago

hdhntr - Typical MU low-life trying to burn Lawrence again. Nice try, idiot.

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100 4 years, 9 months ago

Just making sure we've all seen this...

For those of us wondering who we really are -- here's the answer, for all time -- no matter what year, decade or millenium.

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rastameta 4 years, 9 months ago

Nice article Keegan. Finally, someone who somewhat understands why it has been handled the way it has been handled.

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rastameta 4 years, 9 months ago

And for what would they be investigating Lew? The NCAA simply doesn't work that way. It would be an investigation of the University first and Lew would be part of that investigation. Someone is making stuff up because they have a love affair with MM and why they would, I simply do not know. Lew Perkins has done sooooo much more the Football program than Mangino. I simply cannot believe people are wanting Lew gone when he is the best AD we have every had. The first one to care about Football and any other sport besides Men's basketball.

MM has done a lot for KU football too, but if I had to pick one to keep, it would be Lew and I am not the only former player that would say that. I think most of the players from my era would say that and from the sound of things a lot of former MM players would say that too.

So, get your heads out sand and realize MM isn't all he has been portrayed to be.

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Todd 4 years, 9 months ago

I find it interesting that Keegan would write an article questioning the timing of this probe when he's probably done as much to make this all public as anyone. There have been several posters on this website to say that Keegan forced Perkins hand with the announcement that a probe was going on. If that is indeed the case then this article is rather self serving and once again trying to paint our university in a bad light.

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jhokfan 4 years, 9 months ago

It’s not just the timing but the lack of discretion that bothers me. Looks like a self-inflicted wound.

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OchoCincoHawk 4 years, 9 months ago

The Ballad of Mark Mangino

Come and listen to a story about a coach named Mark A good Wildcat, always gave his team a spark Then one day he was messin with the spread, And up from the hill came a chance to be Head.

Coach that is, Big Cheese, Jayhawk HC.

Well the first thing you know ol Mark’s a millionaire, Winning an Orange Bowl and filling every chair Said "Lawrence is the place just for you" So they loaded up the contract and stayed at KU.

Jayhawks, that is. Practice Fields, Cream puff starts.

. . . The Kansas Jayhawks

Well now its time to say good by to Mark and all his sins. And Lew would like to tell you fans its not about the wins. You're all invited back a gain to this locality To help keep our Jayhawks out of mediocrity

Toilet Bowl that is. Let’s Win a spell, Get your Fan on.

Y'all Rock Chalk now, y'hear?.

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Philip Bowman 4 years, 9 months ago

Thanks 100 for reminding us of this. Does anyone think these guys put on that kind of performance for Lew Perkins? Does anyone remember a performance like this under Terry Allen? Or for that matter by any other KU coach? If we let Perkins do what he seems determined to do. We may all be in our graves before we see another game like this. How do we stop him?

100 (anonymous) says... Just making sure we've all seen this...

For those of us wondering who we really are -- here's the answer, for all time -- no matter what year, decade or millenium.

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55jayhawk 4 years, 9 months ago

I just got this bit of information that the players feel the fans, Lew, maybe coaches (I don't think so) have given up on the players. There is going to be some kind of gathering Wed afternoon with the players and former players, coaches, and local fans to give their support to the team at the practice field area. For you that live at Lawrence or near by, please try to find out about this gathering and support the team as they have never quit or laid down. The team did a great job Saturday and had 2 or 3 injuries that hurt us even more but never quit. We have good players but not enough good players to stay with a team like Texas, but by damn we can beat MU & go out a winner this Saturday! I hope this other matter gets cleaned up because there is a dead rat in the stew pot and this should not be affecting the players like it may be....they don't deserve this kind of publicity and I for one am pround of all of them!

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ravenjayhawk 4 years, 9 months ago

As long as we are having investigations, lets look at the AD & his staff. I'm a loyal fan of all involved in this fiasco. We are only hurting ourselves in this witch hunt. We will have to get a GREAT coach to replace our coach to keep recruits and stop others leaving. Lew will only be here a few years more than on to greener pastures. What kind of mess will he have created . Go Hawks. Beat MU

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Jayhawker413 4 years, 9 months ago

INTERVIEW WITH JOHN CORNISH

Actually my bro tells me whenever I come up.

I wanted to say something so thanks for asking. While I originally wanted to talk up mangino because in the end he did have a tremendously positive influence on my life, the road to get to where I am was not a particularly fun one football wise.

I'm pretty sure unless mangino has found someone to revile as much as he did me my first three years at KU there probably shouldn't even be an issue right now. Like these complaining kids do not even know...

Let me set this straight. Mangino hated me. Like he repeatedly threatened to have me off the team, that I was terrible, and that I was a "**," something he whispered in my ear after I tore my rectus femoris(big muscle on quad) my freshman spring camp and refused to take part in practice. The trainers made me practice despite my very obvious bump on my leg. The problem was that my legs were strong enough that despite the tear they still worked pretty well so their clinical tests showed that I was "fine." The pain and obvious muscle damage was enough for me to pull out. I like to think of myself as a pretty tough football player, but expecting someone to practice with a huge bump on his leg and then even being as callous to call him a **... thats not cool. That is still something I like to show off today. It freaks anyone out that sees it.

After I got hurt as a true freshman it took me three whole years to get a chance at running back and even then it was only because they didnt have any other viable options. I went through 2 spring camps and a few summers knowing I had zero chance of even touching the football during practice. I thought it'd be cool to do scout team so I did and annhiliated our defense running the ball down their throats repeatedly. Mangino then said I was live in practice, my teammates were allowed to tackle me in practice... Still didn't change anything and I kept running it, so much so infact that I was no longer allowed to practice with the scout team. I went through an entire season not touching the ball at all during practice...

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Jayhawker413 4 years, 9 months ago

With that said, thats how oldschool coachs like mangino do it. There is this nanny society growing today that instills children with a sense of entitlement and removes their ability to work towards their goals. Manginos way of coaching might not be the best in this day and age. When I arrived at KU I was 17 and had no idea what to expect. All that BS I put out about not understanding how serious football was just that, complete ********. You know that conversation with mangino that came up after I started getting press, he told me that I was done if I didnt produce results. To explain what we talked about I said stuff like I was immature and that I was unprepared for college football. In reality it was difficult for me to accept that yelling, screaming, working kids till they puked, getting up in people`s faces, getting mad about the way a person looked at you (yes mangino got very angry about the way I looked at him``) and threats were an accepted part of football.

Telling everyone I accepted football was more serious in the states was basically what I said to explain the fact that I had to accept that asking questions is not allowed, you will get yelled at simply for existing, youre gonna play even if youre extremely hurt, you`re a liability to the team, and that you could get sent home at anytime.

I always told my teammates college football is supposed to be fun but its not. I started writing this without really thinking about my first few years at Kansas. I originally wanted to make a post that was only spoke positively of Mangino but I really couldnt do that while being truthful to myself. Mangino played no part inmy turnaround` all he did was give me a chance after esentialyl benching me for 3 years. The only thing that got me through college were the amazing people in Kansas and the fact Im not a quiter. I knew if I stayed long enough I`d get my chance even if they never wanted to give it to me

Youll hear two different sides from all the players getting interviewed. One side will be the smartplayers that know better than to throw mangino under the bus and the other the less intelligent players looking to get their thoughts in the paper about something they probably shouldnt be saying anything about. I would believe all the former players think the same; although we might not like manginos coaching style it certainly worked. The people that are talking smack about Mangino right now in the papers might not have gotten their playing time (marcus herford) or been pretty stupid to begin with (Dexton Fields). I know quite a few of my fellow alumni were interviewed, mostly the smart ones that know better than to say idiotic stuff like intimate hes done anything more than yell at people, the papers are trying to make mangino look really bad right now, and I`m afraid its working. Hes not a bad person, he just has a bad temper.

Still

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Jayhawker413 4 years, 9 months ago

Whoever thought you could have a winning season when your football squad gets in a fight with a fellow team shouldnt be writing for any paper. This season is in ruins because Mangino quit recruiting players with heart and dedication(david ochoa, derek fine, and started picking up the idiots that suddenly become available once you win an orange bowl. Cant blame him, they`re good players, they just lack the common sense a lot of the players before them had.

In the end I can understand Mangino and the situation hes in right now. I dont like him as a person when hes coaching but I respect his coaching style because it did get stuff done. Cocky players that think they shoulda recieved more play time might not like this or ones that are terrible in games and get yelled at; Theyll say its all his fault. I really believe this is just an elaborate ruse by Lew to get Mangino out of there, blowing up some lil thing like a player getting tapped on the chest into players are threatening to leave and noone likes him.If you have to scape goat someone, instead of the players who you cant get rid of, you start talking about the head coach, Mangino.

tl:dr Mangino made life hard for me but the end result was very positive. Mangino`s attitude was only acceptable as long as he was winning. People are inheritly stupid and will all jump on a band wagon to blame someone for a losing season.

JOHN CORNISH

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Philip Bowman 4 years, 9 months ago

Hey Jayhawker413. Someone made a sucker out of you. Or maybe Cornish doesn't know how to spell his first name: Jon

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Cornish

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JHWKNMIZRY 4 years, 9 months ago

As Jack Web would say------------"Just the facts, Maam. Just the facts."

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ksharddem 4 years, 9 months ago

Man Tom, I was beginning to think that you had not read my e-mail.

It is about time that someone actually talked about what is happening and why it is playing out this way instead of their feelings for or against the parties involved.

cheers,

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Jayhawker413 4 years, 9 months ago

it came in an email forwarded to me... The Heading "was interview with cornish"... I just put that at the bottom & top to show who it was ... its legit though

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halogenlamps 4 years, 9 months ago

Maybe the media is trying to wield its power to convict Mangino in the eyes of the public instead of unbiased, objective reporting of facts and events. I see this happening with many snide comments such as "Mangino's soon to be over tenure," "If Mangino is terminated — which nearly is akin to saying, 'If the sun comes up in the morning,'” and other such hogwash. What ever happened to journalistic standards?

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actorman 4 years, 9 months ago

I'm still waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting to see ONE other person mention the fact that the accusations against MM do not just include players. Even if people are right that MM is simply being a tough coach (which I don't believe they are), how does that excuse the way he treated the student who was giving him a parking ticket (which by the way made it well over 20 that he's received and hasn't paid), or the other things he's supposedly said to people about his position at KU and how he can do whatever he wants because he's such a powerful guy. Yes, I realize these things haven't been proven, but given the high volume of complaints and the similar things that I've heard from current and former players over the years, I see no reason to believe otherwise.

And I can tell you for a fact that MM has pressured players who were hurt to do far more than they were supposed to be doing according to the medical staff. He has consistently risked players' careers for the benefit of having them available for a few more games at KU.

There is simply no justification for keeping him at this point, and I'm looking forward to the day he's gone almost as much as I'm looking forward to us stomping the tiggers on Saturday. Then again, MM will probably seal his reputation by making some other incredibly stupid decision at the end that will cost us the game -- thus ending his career the way he's ended so many other games during it.

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