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Anyone else dream of those times when athletic teams got ready to compete, coaches and players discussed what was shaping up, played games and then talked about what happened, win or lose?
Considering all the drama and distractions nowadays, chances are we’ll never again know such purity in sports. Here or just about anywhere else. Modern sports pages and newscasts also project lessons in crime and punishment, anger management, social consciousness, financial finagling, you get the drift — now and then you may even find some reports of actual competition.
I mean, when schools such as Kansas University have football and basketball contingents facing off in hostility, when a dolt shoots a BB gun from a dorm window and hits somebody, when “kids” who are old enough to know better get booked for driving intoxicated and when a tempestuous football coach drifts far from the norm, it’s sometimes hard to remember that KU plays football at Texas this weekend and that the Kansas men’s and women’s basketeers have the chance for pretty good seasons.
Latest furor, of course, is the Mark Mangino conundrum. Mark’s always been an advocate of just keeping on “sawin’ wood.” Looks like his celebrated temper negated his realization that he was chopping away on the wrong side of his branch, risking a massive plop.
Mangino could lose his job if it turns out that during one of his rants he laid hands, and not as a faith-healer, on a player or two. Woody Hayes’ departure at Ohio State was hastened when he gonged an athlete, but that guy was on an opposing team. You physically abuse one of your own people — it could mean a pink slip.
Athletic director Lew Perkins is facing tough decisions. If Mangino is terminated for cause, like attacking jocks, he might forfeit a lot of money from his contract that runs through 2012. If it’s just a case of KU’s “moving in another direction,” he could walk off with a $600,000 payoff. Whatever, the final games with Texas and Missouri are bound to be shortchanged from the standpoint of player, coach and front-office concentration.
If things are as bad as some indicate, and this may be sacrilege, Lew Perkins might secretly be hoping KU doesn’t upset Mizzou. KU seems sure to fall at Texas.
What would happen if KU should go 6-6, gets some kind of marginal bowl game then has to prepare with all this negative baggage on the rack? One thing’s sure: If KU should beat MU, you’re not about to see the players trying to tote off Mt. Mangino, who’s known to erupt regularly, even when he’s happy. Think of the hernias that might impede bowl game preparation. Who would be in charge?
There’s a lot of flack that Perkins might fire “the best coach in KU history.” I can think of at least three better ones. None of them ever faced revolt not only by players but from parents who are infuriated about some of the travesties that apparently have gone on under Mangino.
Gee, it’d be great to focus on KU’s game with Texas and the fantasy that the Jayhawks could repeat their 19-18 upset of 1938. Then turn to throwing everything out the window for a battle with Missouri.
They’ll get some attention, but not as much as they deserve, because of all the needless nuttiness currently distorting the picture.
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Comments
cap10d 3 years, 7 months ago
Story on ESPN quoting more former players. I have to say the poking, hollering, and cursing a player happens in football no matter what university pretty much, but the fact of him getting personal and degrading players about their families and family issues is where he crossses the line. I was behind him, and will be if this is untrue, but if it is true which is looking more and more likely, its time for him to go. Players are coming out of the woodwork now - Rivera - Herford- Brown -Collins - Crawford- Brorsen. This doesnt look good, and is an embarrasment to this university.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/st...
hometownhawk 3 years, 7 months ago
Brorsen's comments were in support of Mangino and Rivera declined to comment.
jayhawkboogeyman 3 years, 7 months ago
the things that he said to players, according to the rivals story are the lowliest comments I can imagine. Calling out a kid's father's alcoholism in front of the team, threatening to send kids back to the "ghetto" with their "homies," belittling players for injuries (ch9 news), all categorically unacceptable. I have to say I was critical of the AD earlier, but after reading a number of reliable quotations from many players, I hope the guy is gone by the weekend. I laud these kids for having the courage to bring the man down. And I praise their self-control and loyalty - there's no way I would let him talk to me like that for one second. He can coach all he wants, but the racial and personal attacks are BS. He is finally getting what he had coming to him. If insulting and dehumanizing kids is what it takes to be a .500 coach, then he can take his Orange Bowl trophy to the curb with him and I will gladly support a 0-12 team that is happy and respected by the guy who is supposed to be mentoring them.
thehavok 3 years, 7 months ago
Kerry Meier, Brandon McAnderson, Chris Harris, Nick Reid, as well as others are on Coaches corner!
cap10d 3 years, 7 months ago
Former Jayhawks linebacker Mike Rivera, who plays for the Tennessee Titans, said Wednesday night he could not speak about the allegations. He plans to have a formal interview on the matter with representatives from Kansas in the next few days.
Im betting his interview isnt to say good things about the coach.
cap10d 3 years, 7 months ago
Former Kansas defensive lineman Russell Brorsen said while he's "not surprised that people are coming out of the woodwork now," he believes Mangino is a "hard-nosed, demanding, disciplinarian."
"I'm not going to deny that some of those things didn't happen," Brorsen said. "But I think part of the problem here is you have four or five years worth of stuff hitting the fan within a period of three or four days. I think [Mangino] could get pretty intense. And I think there was swearing. But my personal opinion is it's not much worse than what you would get at another university."
Yes his comments do support the coach somewhat, but hes admitting the personal attacks did happen. The problem isnt the hollering, cursing or poking, its the personal attacks. Im sorry but you dont talk about a kids alcoholic father or a family member being shot in a negative sense in front of the whole team and expect him to respect you or play hard for you. Thats crossing the line IMHO.
njjayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago
Mt. Oread has lost it. Lew will ask Mangino to check into the Peter Pan Anger Management clinic. Mangino will blame the KU Parking Dept for prompting Lew to make such a request. Lew will then replace Mangino with Stanley Redwine, KU track and field coach, for the balance of the season, while trying to woo KSU's Bill Snyder to take over the KU football program in 2010. Lew will announce plans to expand Memorial Stadium by 30,000 seats, with 29,999 of those seats reserved for high rollers and big donors. The song "Home on the Range" will be replaced at KU football games with "Send in the Clowns".
rkatzfey 3 years, 7 months ago
Mr Mayer... Great Article! I like words like "gonged". I always look forward to reading your stuff.
Mangino_Maniac 3 years, 7 months ago
So if Mangino has been over the line for the past five or six years, and the AD and administration has done nothing about it, the university is looking incredibly bad as well as Mangino. This entire thing and the way it's suddenly become an issue is a joke.
Basically is looking like this: Lew/KU doesn't care about his style and derogatory comments if his team wins... Lew/KU takes the high moral road now that his team is losing.
Pretty sad for KU regardless if he stays or goes.
Whatever.
lighthawk 3 years, 7 months ago
I don't know enough to know what this is about. certainly not about poking a guy in the chest pads with one finger. Is it about playing players hurt or injured, or is there more on the abuse/anger side. Is about team respect for head coach from their lack of loyalty or is it about his actions that would lose their respect. from outside, I have no idea. One thing seems sure, he doesn't still 'own' the team. well all of them anyway.
time will tell.
KUbsee69 3 years, 7 months ago
Mayer ... it was not a BB gun. It was an air-soft rifle, which is really a toy. They shoot pea-sized plastic pellets and are pretty harmless. I'm not defending the "breach-of-rules" nature of this, but as a journalist, you should get the facts straight.
And, how does this relate to the Mangino situation? I suppose that you think MM's personality somehow osmosed over to the twin's room. How absurd to bring that up again.
Please Retire.
jayhawkboogeyman 3 years, 7 months ago
Joe Mortensen is quoted at the bottom of the article. "I've never seen him get too physical with a player -- I've seen him grab a face mask, or point his hands to poke someone, but to me that's OK. I've had coaches in the past do that to me, just to motivate me and stuff," Mortensen told Kornacki. "I think it's more on a level of emotionally, some of the stuff he says to players, and how ruthless it can be." "What's the worst thing he ever said to you," Kornacki asked. "He was going to send me back to California, back to Oakland, and that I'll be drinking out of a brown paper bag the rest of my life," Mortensen said.
Also read somewhere that Rivera is the guy who was forced to keep playing on that injured knee, which resulted in his pathetic 2008-09 senior season.
klineisanazi 3 years, 7 months ago
I only have one question: "What in the name of James Naismith is a "basketeer"? Good grief.
sgtjb123 3 years, 7 months ago
If incidents that former players talked about in the espn article that cap10d included in the first post really happened, Mangino and any other coach needs to find another line of work. When I played high school football we had a "hard-nosed, demanding disciplinarian" as Brorsen called Mangino, but he never got personal, never demeaned us as players or people. We respected him in every way. He motivated us in the right ways. Some parents were upset because he yelled at us and grabbed our facemasks, but it was to move us to where we were supposed to be because we were out of position. Again, getting personal and insulting players is disrespectful. These players are men, not prison convicts. I agree with Marcus Herford, these things have been covered up by winning. Now that they're not winning, the floodgates have been opened.
kackley 3 years, 7 months ago
If Mangino did comment on the player's family life that was totally out of line. I still feel there are too many wimps out there. I like Kerry Meiers quote. But at this point Lew and the media have totally ruined the KU football program. If the disrespecting of the players families went on Mangino should be severly disciplined. But no matter which way it goes, KU football goes south. Too bad that Lew didn't have the professionalism to keep it in house until the final decision was made. And how is having a member of Lew's athletic department doing the investigation considered "independent". I have usually defended Bill Mayer against his naysayers but I sure can't this article. I agree with KUbsee69, please retire
86finalfour 3 years, 7 months ago
The timing of this investigation is so transparent. I interpret it as the University saying the abuse was OK when we were winning but now it's not since we're losing.
Thanks Lew for embarrassing the university and trashing Mangino for 600,000 bones. Low of all low blows.
RckChalkJeff 3 years, 7 months ago
Jesus could be our coach this weekend...and we'd still get our a$$ kicked by Texas.
97jhawk 3 years, 7 months ago
Anyone know if Aquib Talib has been interviewed? I know he's been reprimanded a few times and sure he has an opinion. We all know he's one that likes to toot his own horn...hahaha.
How 'bout finding Charles Gordon. Not sure where he ended up after the Vikings let him go this past summer after he injured himself.
Anyway, I'd love to hear what Talib would have to say....hahaha!
grandpa 3 years, 7 months ago
jayhawkboogeyman, you have some very good comments. If you have one or two players making these allegations, that is something else. We have a number of former and present players complaining. When Perkins addressed the present team , he asked for any players to step forward and sign their names for a voluntary interview. Players lined up (more than 10) to sign their names. Perkins has a hard job. If he does not move forward immediately, he and the University could be guilty of negligence. If he fires the coach, which I predict, he will be unpopular with many fans. I predict, Mangino will not coach KU at the Texas game. A wound hurts immediately, but time heals.
kugrad93 3 years, 7 months ago
kackley says, "Lew and the media have ruined the KU football program." Hmm. I'm pretty sure this team had lost five straight games and was headed for a sixth before any of this came out. Is it the media's fault that Mangino is vicious? People are calling the football players pansies and saying they need to be tough, but his mistreatment of people is not limited to his players and assistants. I saw him reduce a female athletic department staffer to tears over the most minor of complaints on multiple occasions. This is not someone you would want your son or daughter to deal with on a daily basis for four or five years. Mangino has had success on the field, but I have wondered from day one if he was worth it. I always thought it was a matter of time before he either A) had a massive heart attack or B) let his horrific temper get the better of him in a way that embarrassed the university. Having said that, I hope that KU doesn't make the same mistake it made when Glen Mason left. Mason also was not popular with a lot of players, AD staff and boosters, and he had a gruff personality. The search committee wanted a nicer coach, and it ended up with Terry Allen and some really bad football teams. Surely, somewhere out there is a coach who can win and be a decent human being at the same time.
gojbirds 3 years, 7 months ago
I'm pretty sure Talib is not allowed to do interviews. I loved watching him play football at KU, but he doesn't do well in interviews.
ravenjayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago
Everyone needs to realize all sports are money making tills. Look at salaries& facilities, they seem to never be good enough. Our athletic dept. is at the apex of this from the advisory groups to the heads. Players come here or anywhere to hopefully move on the the pros. You have to have a winning program to be noticed. Fans, everyone sells their souls for victories. A winning program sweeps many things under the table & it starts with the AD and his staff. When things are good, they are GOOD. Hard nosed coaches are praised when they win. They are raked over the coals when they do not; for any scapegoat reason. EVERYTHING that has been alleged the past several days goes on everywhere and all the time. We have friends of the program with agendas. Watch out for the AD and his groupies. The main thing is the elevated Grid Iron Club will have to take a step back. A set back for the AD. AD egos are working here
salthawk54 3 years, 7 months ago
Mangino's problems arise from several things, but none indicate he should be fired. He isn't pretty. He's fat. He's gruff. He doesn't kiss the behinds of the press. He doesn't kiss the behinds of Lew Perkins. He is demanding. The biggest problem is that he has been too successful. He has won too many ball games, including bowl games. This has led to expectations that the team will always win a lot of ball games regardless of how many experienced, important members of a team are lost to graduation or otherwise.
The new chancellor should look at Perkins. If she does, she see someone who has been kissing up to the big money folks in the KU community while disregarding the other 49,000 that come to the games. I wonder if she has ever seen the conditions in the restrooms on the upper level of the west side. With all the millions spent on fancy facilities around the campus, you'd think Lew could have put a few dollars into the plumbing.
I watched the halftime ceremony when Perkins dragged poor Gale Sayers out on the field to shill for the new edifice to himself Lew was touting on the east side of the stadium. It was embarassing; I could hardly stand to watch as Gale was force into trying to do something he isn't capable of doing. Remembering the wonderful performances he gave during his playing days and then watching this spectacle really angered me. If anyone is fired it should be Perkins.
As my wife said, if KU was 7-3, Perkins would have never opened his mouth.
thetagger 3 years, 7 months ago
Bill Mayer says... "and that the Kansas men’s and women’s basketeers have the chance for pretty good seasons."
Basketeers. Yes, we now have official confirmation, Bill Mayer is as old and detached from reality as C. Montgomery Burns.
Mr. Burns says (while driving his Mobilomobile)... "I'm sure the manual will indicate which lever is the velocitator and which the deceleratrix."
jhokfan 3 years, 7 months ago
So who are the 3 coaches better than Mangino?
KU 3 years, 7 months ago
Get off Lew's butt. Where were all these allegations over the past 6 or 7 years? If they had come to Lew's attention then, he would have acted then. The reality is that until somebody comes forward--which apparently happened only this week--the AD doesn't know exactly what's going on. Now that someone had the balls to come forward, all the other players who feel the same way come out to validate the allegations. That's the way it goes.
It doesn't mean Lew put up with Mangino's alleged verbal/psychological abuse because we were winning. It means he didn't know the depth of the problem until it was brought to his attention this week. When he found out, he did the responsible thing and promptly called a players' meeting. There's no way an all-players team meeting can be kept hush-hush because some of those players want to out Mangino. Lew knew that. But he also knew that if Mangino had been given enough rope, he was either going to hang himself or be exonerated after that team meeting so it didn't matter whether it went public.
Do you know all the junk your kids are into? Not unless you're a micro-manager. If you are, your kids probably hate you. Likewise with the AD-coach relationship. Lew isn't a micro-manager. He's not at practice every day and quizzing kids about how Mangino is treating them. If he was, his coaches would hate him.
Lew is the best AD KU could have. Look at what he's done for fund-raising and facilities and coaches' salaries. There isn't a top-notch up-and-coming coach that wouldn't at least listen to Lew's pitch if they are called. You couldn't have said that without the facilities and money Lew is generating.
jhokfan 3 years, 7 months ago
Hope he keeps his job but if he doesn’t, here are my top 5 games in the Mangino era.
2005 beat Nebraska 45-15. After 36 years this has to top the list.
2007 Orange Bowl. Enough said.
2008 against Missouri. Not the most important but maybe the best game ever.
2007 hung 76 on Nebraska. Sweet!
2004 Homecoming. Beat K-state and stopped 11 game losing streak.
KU 3 years, 7 months ago
jhokfan......Thanks for bringing up the good memories! Here's to many, many more. KU can and will overcome this adversity and move on to bigger and better things. The KU football program is bigger than any one man or controversy.
distracted 3 years, 7 months ago
Bigger than any one man???? Have you seen the size of Mangino?
KU 3 years, 7 months ago
distracted......I don't care who ya are....that was funny right there!
whistledick 3 years, 7 months ago
Mangino is right if he had won 5 in stead of loosing five this horse crap would have never been brought up.. If getting a finger poked in the chest is the worst thing he he ever has done to him in his crybabby life .. well he is verry lucky.. The marines need a few good men so does KU...
gongs4ku 3 years, 7 months ago
Good article.
"Latest furor, of course, is the Mark Mangino conundrum." Shouldn't that be "The latest furor?" It's a minor complaint, I know, but if it's correct I want to know why it's correct.
shelleysue 3 years, 7 months ago
People keep saying that MM really did nothing at KU except bring us a 12-1 record against a cupcake schedule.
Ended a 36 year drought against NE Consecutive wins against KSU Orange Bowl win 12-1 record (regardless of the opponents it's still 12-1) Three bowls in four years Some of the best games ever played at KU New playing surface New football complex Full stadium week after week Actual excitement about KU football Coach of the year Player accolades And above all - respect for the program
Guilty or not, please don't keep insisting he did nothing for KU.
heterohilfiger 3 years, 7 months ago
wait a minute. a head football coach being aggressive towards his players? no way! a finger poke to the chest? gotta come up with something better than that. This is like the weapons of mass destruction search in iraq.
maybe this will help you guys put things in perspective:
http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/gallery/Martial-Arts-Training-in-Gaza/2546/
TexasJayhawk78 3 years, 7 months ago
How about a vote on whether Lew stays or goes.
I vote he packs up today!
KU 3 years, 7 months ago
As I said in a post above, "Get off Lew", TexasJayhawk78. You're either a petty peon who is jealous of all he's done for the Athletic Department or.......you're just a bitter idiot who hates "rich people".
Strikewso 3 years, 7 months ago
I like winning, I say keep him until his health won't let him do it any longer. That won't be a very long time anyway.
ShazzyD 3 years, 7 months ago
KU,
You wrote "It doesn't mean Lew put up with Mangino's alleged verbal/psychological abuse because we were winning. It means he didn't know the depth of the problem until it was brought to his attention this week. When he found out, he did the responsible thing and promptly called a players' meeting. There's no way an all-players team meeting can be kept hush-hush because some of those players want to out Mangino. Lew knew that."
The responsible thing by calling a players meeting? Are you kidding me?
I feel bad for Arist Wright. That kid was upset enough to take it to the AD, but he probably thought it was a private matter. It was the Lew Perkins who made the matter public. Now everyone on campus things Wright is a wimp. Listen to talk radio at all? This wasn't good for Wright or any of the other KU players. It makes them all sound like wimps. These players are the laughing stock of the Kansas City area now.
Who gained from Lew Perkins making this a public matter?
Think about it. How many times do you think a subordinate has a problem with the way they are treated by their superior, whether it be a teacher, boss, coach, whomever? It happens a lot in life. And when that subordinate goes over the persons head to the higher ups, it usually doesn't get reported to the news. It usually doesn't end up in a meeting with all the other students/workers/players. It COULD have been kept private and handled privately, but LEW PERKINS chose to make this public.
jhokfan 3 years, 7 months ago
ShazzyD:
Sounds plausible but what about the raise and contract extension he gave Mark?
ShazzyD 3 years, 7 months ago
A likely result of a BCS game win and National Coach of the Year award. How could he not give him a contract extension? That doesn't mean he likes him or wanted him around.
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