Originally published March 12, 2009 at 09:57a.m., updated March 12, 2009 at 09:50p.m.

FINAL: Dunn’s 24 points lead Baylor to upset over top-seeded KU, 71-64

Kansas guard Sherron Collins makes his way from the court during a timeout in the second half Thursday, March 12, 2009 at the Ford Center in Oklahoma City.

Kansas guard Sherron Collins makes his way from the court during a timeout in the second half Thursday, March 12, 2009 at the Ford Center in Oklahoma City.


Audio clips

2009 KU-Baylor March 12

Reader poll

What seed should KU get in the NCAA tournament?

  • 2 6% 165 votes
  • 3 41% 1078 votes
  • 4 37% 989 votes
  • 5 14% 372 votes

2604 total votes.

KU vs. Baylor

Reader poll

Who was KU's first-half MVP against Baylor?

  • Tyshawn Taylor 48% 19 votes
  • Marcus Morris 17% 7 votes
  • Cole Aldrich 25% 10 votes
  • Other 7% 3 votes

39 total votes.

FINAL: BU defeats KU, 71-64

LaceDarius Dunn scored 24 points on 6-for-11 shooting from deep, leading ninth-seeded Baylor to a 71-64 victory over top-seeded Kansas.

After falling behind 30-13, KU rallied to take a 56-51 lead in the second half on a layup by Markieff Morris.

A few minutes later, the Bears followed with a 10-0 run to take control.

The Jayhawks, down three, had a chance to tie it with 26.5 seconds left, but Sherron Collins airballed a three-pointer. BU’s Henry Dugat hit both ends of a one-and-one on the other end to put the game out of reach.

“Our guys showed a lot of heart, and obviously they knew coming into this we are going to have to leave it on the line and come together as a team,” Baylor coach Scott Drew said. “I couldn’t be more proud of the effort.”

Baylor snapped a seven-game losing streak against KU.

It also was the first time that the Jayhawks had lost their opening game in the Big 12 tournament.

“I thought Baylor controlled the game from the get-go,” KU coach Bill Self said. “They were certainly better than us from the start. We got exactly what we deserved.”

Collins led KU with 16 points, but he made just six of his 20 field-goal tries. He was 1-for-8 in the first half.

Tyshawn Taylor and Marcus Morris contributed 12 points each. Taylor has averaged 15 points in his last five games on 25-for-41 shooting.

Against a packed-in 2-3 zone, Big 12 first-team selection Cole Aldrich managed just eight points on 3-for-5 shooting.

“I think it is a tribute to their zone. I think it is a tribute to our perimeter not doing a great job,” Self said. “Cole has to take responsibility for it, too. Guys have to find a way to get the ball.”

Kevin Rogers added 14 points for Baylor (19-13), which advanced to the semifinal round of the Big 12 tournament for the second time in school history.

The loss snaps a nine-game winning streak for KU (25-7) at the Big 12 tournament.

The Jayhawks will learn of their NCAA tournament destination Sunday.

KU scoring

Collins 16 (6-for-20 shooting), Marcus Morris 12, Taylor 12, Aldrich 8, Reed 6, Little 6, Morningstar 2, Markieff Morris 2.

KU was 25-for-62 from the floor (40.3 percent), 8-for-25 from three (32 percent) and 6-for-10 from the free-throw line (60 percent).

BU was 27-for-60 from the floor (45 percent), 8-for-25 from three (32 percent) and 9-for-13 from the free-throw line (69.2 percent).

FINAL: BU defeats KU, 71-64

Kevin Rogers hits a tough turn-around, and Collins follows with a missed shot in the lane.

Henry Dugat’s 18-footer rattles out, and KU has a chance to tie down three with 36 seconds left.

Collins airballs an open three with 26.5 seconds left.

Dugat is fouled, and the 76-percent free-throw shooter knocks both down to put the Bears up five.

Collins’ pass to Morningstar is stolen, and Dugat puts in a layup on the other end to finish off the upset.

KU loses by seven.

BU 65/KU 64 — 1:51 left in game

Just like that, Baylor is back on top.

Markieff Morris misses a contested dunk, and Dunn puts in his fifth three after a scramble play under the basket.

Reed forces a bad pass in traffic, and Dunn steals it before laying it in for two. Self calls timeout. Dunn is up to 21 points, and the Bears have made their run with Jerrells on the bench.

Mamadou Diene slams the ball off a pass from Rogers, and Dunn follows with a three in transition. That’s 10 straight points for BU, and KU has gone cold from the field.

Reed follows with a three to break KU’s extended drought. Two bad plays in a row, one from KU and one from Baylor. After clearing a rebound, Markieff Morris tried an impossible outlet pass, which was stolen.

Dunn jacked up a quick, quick three for Baylor, though, and after it missed, Collins drilled a three behind a screen to pull KU within one, pumping his fist after the shot went through.

KU 58/BU 55 — 7:46 left in game

KU finally gets over the hump and takes the lead, thanks to an unselfish play by Collins. After driving under the basket, Collins found Reed on the perimeter, and “Mr. Big Shot” (as our own online producer Nick Nelson calls him) swished the trey to put KU up, 54-51.

Seconds later, Reed missed from three, but Markieff Morris caught the carom and laid it off the glass for two in one sweeping motion. Drew calls timeout, and Collins waves his arms, urging the KU fans to come out of their seats.

Marcus Morris throws in a line-drive shot in the lane. He’s 5-for-10, but when he gets in that zone opening, it looks like he’s forcing up his shot too quickly. He needs to get the ball, compose himself, then shoot, instead of trying to do all three things in the matter of a half-second.

BU 49/KU 49 — 11:17 left in game

KU isn’t looking inside to Aldrich at all. The Jayhawks are getting bailed out by making shots, as Collins has swished two more threes.

Finally, KU gets it in the paint, and the final result is a layup by Little to tie it.

Little misses a jumper, and Self is furious with the no-call. The coach flirts with a technical, but backs off on the officials at just the right time.

Little, who stayed down on the court for a few seconds, came out of the game, but he isn’t receiving medical attention. On the replay, it didn’t look like there was much contact at all.

BU is just 5-for-17 from the field this half (29.4 percent).

BU 42/KU 40 — 15:58 left in game

Aldrich hits a fadeaway, then Collins puts in a fast-break layup to tie the score.

But Morningstar falls asleep defensively at a bad time, and BU gets some mometum back with Dunn’s fourth three.

A good sign for KU, as Collins rattles in a three from a few feet beyond the three-point line. After a 1-for-8 start, Collins is 2-for-2 this half.

KU scoring

Taylor 10 (4-for-5 shooting, 2-for-2 from three), Marcus Morris 9, Aldrich 6, Little 4, Collins 2, Morningstar 2.

KU was 14-for-31 from the floor (45.2 percent), 2-for-10 from three (20 percent) and 3-for-6 from the free-throw line (50 percent).

BU was 13-for-24 from the floor (54.2 percent), 5-for-13 from three (38.5 percent) and 6-for-8 from the line (75 percent).

A few quick thoughts

Is this not a carbon-copy of the Kansas State game earlier this year? KU trailed in that game, 30-13, before making a run led by Marcus Morris. Of course, the Jayhawks went on to win that game.

Brady McCollough of the Kansas City Star tells me that was the 17th time in KU's 32 games that they have scored in the last 10 seconds of the first half.

Baylor is 12-0 this year when shooting 50 percent or better from the floor. The Bears shot 54.2 percent in the first half. KU hasn't let an opponent shoot 50 percent or better against it since the 2007-08 season-opener against Louisiana-Monroe.

BU 37/KU 33 — Halftime

KU hits a drought at the wrong time. Collins misses a three. So does Marcus Morris. Aldrich’s follow rattles out.

On a drive, Taylor finally breaks the dry spell with a floater inside.

Once again, though, the Jayhawks prove to be the best two-minutes-and-under-in-the-first-half team in the nation.

Morningstar throws in a tricky reverse layup, and with five seconds left, Taylor swishes a three from the side. KU, which trailed by as many as 17 in the first half, is down just four at the break.

BU 32/KU 24 — 3:36 left in 1st half

Travis Releford throws an entry pass right to a Baylor defender. KU has five turnovers already.

KU struggles with defending a simple ball screen, as Jerrells finds an opening for an uncontested three. The Jayhawks look dazed, and Self uses his second timeout with his team trailing, 30-13.

Collins gets called for a hand-check, and he complains to the official. He hasn’t shown much good body language toward officials or teammates early in this one.

Aldrich is starting to become a presence inside. He follows a Marcus Morris miss with a tip-in, then gets fouled in the lane on another follow attempt.

Taylor hits an open three on a feed from Collins. He had passed on the shot all game, but KU needs him to take it.

After a miss from Jerrells, Collins pushes the pace, and Marcus Morris eventually gets free underneath for a layup. That’s a quick 9-0 run for KU, and reluctantly, BU coach Scott Drew calls timeout.

Right in front of us, Collins yells some encouragement to his teammate: “Let’s go Brady! Let’s go Brady!” The recent run looks like it has helped bring some better leadership from the KU guard.

BU 26/KU 13 — 7:52 left in 1st half

Mario Little misses two at the free-throw line. He has to be a scorer when he’s in there.

Dunn drains another three. I’m reminded of former NFL coach Dennis Green’s line, “They are who we thought they were.” Dunn is who we thought he was — a chucker and a shooter. KU still hasn’t defended him well, though, as he has 11 points on 3-for-5 shooting from three.

Little hits a six-foot fadeaway in the lane. That shot is going to be there all day for him against this zone.

Collins is 1-for-7 from the floor with just two points. KU is 0-for-4 from three.

BU 21/KU 9 — 11:48 left in 1st half

The zone has taken KU out of sync offensively. The Jayhawks look hesitant with the basketball. Self is trying all sorts of different combinations, but they’re not working right now.

Marcus and Markieff Morris aren’t hitting eight-to-10-foot jumpers, and that’s hurting the Jayhawks quite a bit. Mario Little checks in, and his mid-range game is exactly what the Jayhawks need against this zone.

Another bad sign for KU: Baylor is out-rebounding the Jayhawks, 7-4.

BU 13/KU 5 — 15:22 left in 1st half

LaceDarius Dunn hits a long three to beat the shot clock. Not good defense by Brady Morningstar, who should have known the deep try was coming.

BU’s already gone to the 2-3 zone. Sherron Collins beats it with a lob over the top to Tyshawn Taylor, who lays it in.

Another three from Dunn. Morningstar gave him too much room again.

This isn’t the Curtis Jerrells that we saw a month ago that didn’t have a field goal against KU. He’s much more confident today, driving in for two and hitting a fallaway three.

The Bears have gone 3-for-5 from deep, and they’ve controlled the game so far.

11:30 a.m.

Good KU representation in the seats, as a few thousand blue shirts circle the gym.

As a side note, it's pretty cold in here. I just saw Baylor's Kevin Rogers blow into his hands to keep warm. I don't think they're used to snow in mid-March in Oklahoma.

Reader poll

What is KU's all-time record in the finals of the Big 12 tournament?

  • 7-0 7% 14 votes
  • 6-1 56% 110 votes
  • 5-2 32% 62 votes
  • 4-3 3% 7 votes

193 total votes.

Reader poll

What is KU's all-time record in the quarterfinals round of the Big 12 tournament?

  • 12-0 27% 21 votes
  • 11-1 39% 30 votes
  • 10-2 23% 18 votes
  • 9-3 9% 7 votes

76 total votes.

Reader poll

Mario Chalmers scored how many points in last year's Big 12 Championship game against Texas?

  • 24 10% 9 votes
  • 26 24% 20 votes
  • 28 24% 20 votes
  • 30 15% 13 votes
  • 31 25% 21 votes

83 total votes.

Reader poll

Who has the highest point total in a Big 12 tournament game for KU (31)?

  • Wayne Simien 28% 22 votes
  • Paul Pierce 34% 27 votes
  • Raef LaFrentz 6% 5 votes
  • Mario Chalmers 30% 24 votes

78 total votes.

Reader poll

What is KU's record all-time in the Big 12 tournament?

  • 23-8 3% 2 votes
  • 24-7 16% 10 votes
  • 25-6 47% 29 votes
  • 26-5 32% 20 votes

61 total votes.

Reader poll

In the Big 12 Tournament's 13-year history, how many times has KU earned the No. 1 seed?

  • 6 24% 14 votes
  • 7 31% 18 votes
  • 8 19% 11 votes
  • 9 24% 14 votes

57 total votes.

Reader poll

How many times in Big 12 tournament history has an opponent shot 50 percent or better against KU?

  • 0 28% 13 votes
  • 1 31% 14 votes
  • 2 17% 8 votes
  • 3 17% 8 votes
  • 4 4% 2 votes

45 total votes.

Reader poll

Who has led the Jayhawks in scoring the most times (five) in Big 12 tournament history?

  • Paul Pierce 31% 23 votes
  • Drew Gooden 8% 6 votes
  • Wayne Simien 48% 35 votes
  • Mario Chalmers 11% 8 votes

72 total votes.

11:09 a.m.

OK, here are the answers to our quiz:

What is KU's all-time record in the finals of the Big 12 tournament?

Answer: 6-1. KU’s only loss in the Big 12 championship game came in 2002 — a 64-55 loss to Oklahoma.

What is KU's all-time record in the quarterfinals round of the Big 12 tournament?

Answer: 11-1. Entering the 2000 Big 12 tournament as the No. 5 seed, KU defeated Kansas State in the first round before losing to Oklahoma State, 77-58, in the quarterfinals.

The Jayhawks are 11-0 in the quarterfinals after receiving a first-round bye.

Mario Chalmers scored how many points in last year's Big 12 Championship game against Texas?

Answer: 30. How quickly we forget the Big 12 tournament championship when it’s on Selection Sunday. Chalmers had 30 points on 10-for-15 shooting from the floor and 8-for-12 shooting from three. It’ll be nice this year for the championship team to have a day to enjoy its Big 12 tournament title.

Who has the highest point total in a Big 12 tournament game for KU (31)?

Answer: Wayne Simien. He scored 31 against Missouri in the quarterfinals of the 2004 Big 12 tourney.

What is KU's record all-time in the Big 12 tournament?

Answer: 25-6. KU, though, has won nine straight Big 12 tournament games.

In the Big 12 Tournament's 13-year history, how many times has KU earned the No. 1 seed?

Answer: 6. KU received the No. 1 seed in 1997, 1998, 2002, 2003, 2007 and 2009. If you had watched our season review video, you would have gotten this one.

How many times in Big 12 tournament history has an opponent shot 50 percent or better against KU?

Answer: 0. This was a trick question because it was a trick question. Oklahoma State shot 48.9 percent against the Jayhawks in 1997, but that’s the highest an opponent has shot against KU in the Big 12 tourney. That surprised me a little bit.

Who has led the Jayhawks in scoring the most times (five) in Big 12 tournament history?

Answer: Paul Pierce. He led KU in scoring in five of his six Big 12 tourney games. Chalmers led KU in scoring four times, and Simien led KU in three contests.

10:33 a.m.

Here is an update on two Baylor injury situations.

Center Josh Lomers has a sprained ankle, but he should play. He was listed as questionable going into Wednesday’s first-round game against Nebraska, but he ended up starting and scoring 11 points on 5-for-5 shooting.

The seven-footer’s lack of mobility might affect Baylor’s defense, though. The Bears went to a lot of zone against Nebraska, letting the big man stand in the middle of the lane instead of chasing around an offensive player.

When Lomers is in the game, I would predict a lot of zone from Baylor.

Six-foot-7 forward Quincy Acy, meanwhile, played just five minutes (all in the second half) against Nebraska while battling an upper-respiratory infection. He’s averaging 5.9 points per game and had four points and five rebounds in the Bears’ first game against KU this season.

9:56 a.m.

Welcome back to The Newell Post Live, coming to you from the Ford Center in Oklahoma City, Okla., where the No. 11 Kansas Jayhawks are getting set to take on the Baylor Bears in the quarterfinals of the Big 12 tournament.

KU has had some remarkable success in the 13-year run of the Big 12 tournament.

But how good have the Jayhawks been?

Let’s test your knowledge of KU in the Big 12 tournament with the trivia questions on the left.

Answer the questions for yourself, and try to do so without any help (or without logging onto the Big12sports Web site).

Also, please don’t post the answers in the comments section. You’ll ruin the fun for everyone.

I’ll give the answers and 11 a.m. If you’re brave, you can post your guesses in the comments section below.

Also, anyone out there playing hooky from school? Or from work? Anyone called in sick to watch the game today?

Any good stories you have are open to the comments section below.


Jesse Newell 11 years, 2 months ago

I feel sorry for our children, stupidmichael...

TKELuke 11 years, 2 months ago

No streaming media at work makes Luke a very sad fan :( I should have called in sick today.

jayharchitect 11 years, 2 months ago

My bosses are gone today, and we just happen to have a 61" HD tv for presentations (that just happens to have HD cable on it for some reason). So I will be watching it on a long lunch break!

Ben Kane 11 years, 2 months ago

gotta save the call in day for next week

Jesse Newell 11 years, 2 months ago

jayharchitect — I like it. Will others be taking a long lunch break with you?

jayharchitect 11 years, 2 months ago

jnewell - Probably, but being in New York, they don't have nearly the same passion! Most of my co-workers went to little tech schools on the east coast, to them sports was the thing they made fun of at their school. They have learned a lot about Kansas basketball since meeting me!

Grass75 11 years, 2 months ago

Does anyone know if the game will be streaming?

Jesse Newell 11 years, 2 months ago

Interesting. So you're trying to convert them not to just KU, but to sports in general. Good luck.

A 61-inch HD TV, huh? Your lunch break should be delightful.

jayharchitect 11 years, 2 months ago

Just grabbed some pizza, settling in to watch... so I'm out!

cffighter86 11 years, 2 months ago

jnewell.... You enjoying the snow out there? This stupid midwest weather is downright outrageous.

Jesse Newell 11 years, 2 months ago

It is nuts. I thought I was coming to Oklahoma to get warm.

mom_of_three 11 years, 2 months ago

I am at work and can watch the game, but i refuse to listen to ron franklin. What is the radio station so I can listen to bob and chris while watching? Help please.

cffighter86 11 years, 2 months ago

hmmm...well we havent showed up to play yet apparently, and Baylor is punching us right in our mouth so far

Eric Sorrentino 11 years, 2 months ago

I will say, this is one time where working nights is paying off!

Snow in OKC in March? That is crazy. Newell, interesting trivia questions.

mom_of_three 11 years, 2 months ago

I care who the refs are...will tell us alot, moron.

cffighter86 11 years, 2 months ago

Why aren't they feeding the ball to Cole?

kc_wildfire 11 years, 2 months ago

Yeah so you can blame every call of the refs, not the poor play of KU.

cffighter86 11 years, 2 months ago need to call anyone a moron...take a chill pill...

mom_of_three 11 years, 2 months ago

Not to blame it on the refs, but certain refs call it a certain can tell a lot...And i can call anyone a moron that asks a stupid question......

mom_of_three 11 years, 2 months ago

don't mess with my mood today. have to listen to ron (can't talk and watch at the same time)franklin and Fran (love everyone else) francilla.

kc_wildfire 11 years, 2 months ago

I have a feeling Little is going to need to come up with a big game if Baylor sticks with the zone. He has the moves and touch to get in the middle of it and do so damage. Of course we have to stop Baylor first.

Joe Joseph 11 years, 2 months ago

Kansas has looked tired in its last three games. Maybe a nice break would benefit this team before the Tournament...

TKELuke 11 years, 2 months ago

Maybe we should just play basketball. We can beat this Baylor team if we just play solid D and start shooting better.

jayhawkintexas 11 years, 2 months ago

We're cold from the outside so we need to feed it into Cole.

kc_wildfire 11 years, 2 months ago

Taylor and Collins need to split the zone with penetration dribble and either take it to the rim if the zone doesn't shift to stop them or dish it off to Cole if the zone does slide over to take away the dribble to the basket.

kc_wildfire 11 years, 2 months ago


There was some ball movement there! Maybe they are awake finally.

RockChalkJayBlog 11 years, 2 months ago

They went on that run after it got to noon...

They're apparently not a morning team.

kc_wildfire 11 years, 2 months ago

Yes he is.

This is where he needs to lean on his teammates by getting them the ball in scoring situations.

cwag 11 years, 2 months ago

Nice push to end the half - with the patented 3 to finish.

mom_of_three 11 years, 2 months ago

so quick to doubt....4 at half time...held baylor to 7 in the last what....7 minutes.... good job.

RockChalkJayBlog 11 years, 2 months ago

How many shots did the Morris twins take outside of the paint?

Answer: Too many

BCRavenJHawkfan 11 years, 2 months ago

You know, just once I would like to see one of our guys with one of those games of the century. Why is always someone like Voskuil?

This is another game that has been made more difficult than it should be.

Ed Fox 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm ok with most of the shots the Morris twins have taken, just not ok with how poorly they shot them. How many airballs in the first 5 minutes did they have? Those are the shots we need them taking and making against the zone, they just didn't come out to play. Marcus picked it up the second part of the half, though. They also seemed to figure out how they need to be rebounding against the zone. If Baylor sticks with the zone, I think we might get some good things going in the second half. Especially if Sherron comes out of his slump, which I'm anticipating he can do.

Ed Fox 11 years, 2 months ago

Well, some of those shots Sherron was hitting against OU were "Voskuil-like." But, we usually don't have those guys because we're not supposed to. This team always has too much talent to rely on one guy like that. The only other example is Mario in last year's Big XII title game - he could barely miss anything and went for 30 that night.

kc_wildfire 11 years, 2 months ago

Combined they are 4 of 9 (Marcus 4/7, Markieff 0/2). A couple of bad looking shots maybe made it seem worse then actually is.

kupark 11 years, 2 months ago

Can somebody tell the KU players that they're not playing in AFH and they won't be playing in it for the rest of the season? Coming back from double digit deficit is not nearly as easy outside of AFH as it's in it.

The last a few games KU has played very un-Bill Self like defense and no passion for majority of the first half. This is a very bad habit to develop and it's a recipie for first-round exit in the tourney. I'm not sure if KU is out of danger in this game. They still trail by four points and Baylor knows that the only way for it to get to tourney is to win out.

pudge44 11 years, 2 months ago

What the heck is Bill thinking with his stupid zone????? Has he not noticed that every time they go zone the bears are getting wide open layups???? They start out in zone and these teams get open shots and heat up. How many games will it take him to learn to play man?

jayhawkintexas 11 years, 2 months ago

Fran is a genius!!! He said the key for Baylor is that they have to outscore Kansas!!!!! Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Brandon Hull 11 years, 2 months ago

Let me be the first to say that Sherron will find a way to bust loose in the second half. We will win the game. But I know you guys don't want to hear this: this is what happens with a Sherron-led team. Yes, we wouldn't have won 10-12 games without him, and yes he takes the clutch shots (and makes them often), but any SINGLE game, you just don't know for sure what's going to happen. It's a different Kansas team from the past in that way.

Much like a baseball team can win 103 games over the course of a season and feel good heading into the playoffs, they can run into a 88-win team with 3 solid starting pitchers over a short series and get sent home. The 103 wins wouldn't have happened without that .363 hitter, or the 47 home runs from some other guy, but any given short series they just don't have it.

We run that risk when we rely on the type of player Sherron is. It's Allen Iverson-like. I'll take it, but I'm always a little fidgety about what could happen vs. what I want to happen as a fan.

Jonathan Kealing 11 years, 2 months ago

If you can't get enough KUSports info, we're also providing live score and play updates via our Twitter account. Follow us,

Jonathan Kealing Online editor

Ed Fox 11 years, 2 months ago

Did you even watch the first half jhwkfan?

RockChalkJayBlog 11 years, 2 months ago

lol , Taylor has 11 pts on 4-5 shooting...Yep, he didn't "come to play"

Brandon Hull 11 years, 2 months ago

Good comeback. It's a shame Cole has taken a measly 5 shots. Just not getting his hands on the ball.

cwag 11 years, 2 months ago

Moving screen on Dugat's jumper....

RockChalkJayBlog 11 years, 2 months ago

Is it just me or was that shot by Marcus coming off the backboard when Baylor touched it?

That's goaltending

stanfordstarter 11 years, 2 months ago

sorta off subject but thought you guys would like this new adidas KU and dwight howard commercial for March Madness

sorta cool seeing someone like dwight howard representing KU

Joe Joseph 11 years, 2 months ago

7-point swing thanks to Markieff's missed dunk. Unreal.

kc_wildfire 11 years, 2 months ago

We are settling for way too many three pointers.

Brandon Hull 11 years, 2 months ago

22 threes in a game is a little ridiculous when you've got a Big 12 first-team center.

kc_wildfire 11 years, 2 months ago

Collins needs to pull his head out.

He missed a shot, no problem. But then he tried a weak swipe to get the ball back instead of getting back on defense, allowing Baylor a three point transition bucket.

jayhawkintexas 11 years, 2 months ago

Uh oh, doesn't look NCAAs and we may slip to a 4th seed in the NCAA.

RockChalkJayBlog 11 years, 2 months ago

Cool! The refs don't know what goaltending is.

Eric TheCapn 11 years, 2 months ago

they also like to call lots of phantom fouls on kansas.

exiledhawkfan 11 years, 2 months ago

when collins is on, he's on...when he's not, he's absolutely pitiful...not a good loss going into the ncaa's.

Eric TheCapn 11 years, 2 months ago

you're supposed to be peaking in march. not lost to f-ing texas tech and f-ing baylor. who's next, f-ing bradley? f.

mattralph 11 years, 2 months ago

It may end up being a good loss when you consider they now get to rest. Conference tournaments are meaningless unless you are a team fighting for your life like Baylor.

TNJhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Trifecta of doom: A missed layup, an airball three-point attempt, and a turnover to end the game for Collins.

BCRavenJHawkfan 11 years, 2 months ago

Welcome to tournament play!

These guys better go home and think about this really, really hard.

And could LJW upgrade their server from the Tandy they must be using.

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

As long as Collins is leading this team, we're going to lose random games to random teams.

We're every bit as inconsistent as our "team leader".

kennethst 11 years, 2 months ago

Terrible game for Kansas.....but Baylor is a good team.

KU has not looked right the 3 last 3 games......other teams are figuring something out?

RawkChawkJHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Question: Did this team peak against Missouri? I'm not saying that to attack. I'm just asking what you all think.

In any case, and no matter WHAT happens in the NCAAs, this season has been a fun ride and exceeded my expectations.

jayhwkr77 11 years, 2 months ago

KU cannot keep digging these 15 to 20 point holes. I put a lot of that on Self. I know we were missing a lot of open shots, but we are coming out completely unprepared to face the zone every time. Sherron needs to grow up. This game cost him any chance of getting drafted this coming June. Let's go to Boise, maybe win a couple of games, and then go to Boston to face UCONN. This should be a fun tournament. Hello four seed.

sdoyel 11 years, 2 months ago

Our team look disinterested today. And probably the most passive I've ever seen in the 1st half. Nobody wanted to shoot the d@mn ball!

And for God's sake. ATTACK THE ZONE! No guard penetration off the dribble killed us. How does Cole take 5 shots????

Our help defense was terrible. We were lazy. Especially Sherron on the defensive end. How many times did Baylor exploit our double team for a wide open layup/dunk? Nobody rotated. EVER!

As the guy up there said. We go as Sherron goes. 6-20. Lazy D. Amazing.

A wide open 3 to tie and you air ball it? Wow.

kennethst 11 years, 2 months ago

I agree with jayhwkr77---these big holes are very difficult to come out of and suck a lot of energy. I don't know why they keep doing this-but eventually it takes its

I'm thinking we had better just be happy with winning the Big 12-they aren't going anywhere in the NCAA.

mahkmood 11 years, 2 months ago

Collins still doesn't know his role, and Self has let him get away with it this year because no one else has enough experience to lead. Shooting the ball 20 times a game is not Collins' role. This is KU, we have a lot of other great players that should be getting the ball. Collins is a good player, but he's got to understand his role better, otherwise, I think it will be best for KU's TEAM for him to (attempt to) leave for the NBA. Rush, Chalmers, Arthur could each have averaged 25 a game if they shot the ball as much as Collins has this year. But they understood their roles as a TEAM.

Seth Peattie 11 years, 2 months ago

WHAT THE F????????????

Terrible loss. Where was Cole during the last 2 minutes of the game: bench. ?????

Morningstar was CLUTCH today with 2 BIG points. Neat stuff.


TKELuke 11 years, 2 months ago


jayhawkintexas 11 years, 2 months ago

Losing two of the last three games to unranked teams is really going to hurt in our NCAA seeding. Tech and Baylor were both hot and we were cold in both games. If there was any doubt about Collins needs to come back for another year, it should be settled by the Tech and Baylor games. Morningstar needs to find his shot again, the twins need to step it up, and Aldrich is going to have to get better on the offensive boards. The bright spot is that Taylor seems to be settling in.

kennethst 11 years, 2 months ago

They will be a 4th....possibly even 5th seed. Really hurt themselves with this loss.

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm glad to see other people realizing Collins isn't half as good as the media makes him out to be....

Yet another game where he fires up a ton of contested shots, hits a terrible percentage of them, and neglects one of the best BIGS in the entire league.

I can't wait til he's gone to be honest (as much as I respect what he's done), so we can get back to KU basketball, and not "I should take all our shots" Memphis style basketball, which Self seems to wanna let him get away with.

Joe Joseph 11 years, 2 months ago

Clearly this time goes how Sherron goes. When he shoots well, Kansas is virtually unstoppable.

Is there any way KU salvages a 3 seed after losing to Tech & Baylor?

TKELuke 11 years, 2 months ago

I hear that about the 4 seed... We better take some time to think about this loss. Collins was forcing action... our defense beyond the arch was poor... there needs to be more of a purpose to our passes. More importantly we can't go on drought where we stop scoring. If we are not scoring we need to go inside to our big guys or drive into the lane.

Aligned 11 years, 2 months ago

"Terrible loss. Where was Cole during the last 2 minutes of the game: bench. ?????

Morningstar was CLUTCH today with 2 BIG points. Neat stuff."

You know, they have to get an offensive touch to score. Collins never gave up the rock. Sometimes you're on and sometimes you're not, and when you're not, you don't need to jack up twenty shots. We have other guy's who can score.

InfiniteJ 11 years, 2 months ago

Looks like a 4 seed in the big tournament for our beloved Jayhawks. I've never seen a team dig themselves a hole in as many games as this year's team has.....if they play like that next week they will be bounced in the first round.

jncarlsbad 11 years, 2 months ago

Why the HELL is Aldrich only getting 5 shots? He's the tallest guy out there and he's closest to the basket! Get him the freakin ball! Unacceptable!

kennethst 11 years, 2 months ago

Stop blaming Collins.....he is an amazing player. Period.

Ok.....not the best game today......but he is allowed so cut him some slack. And anyone that says they are hoping he leaves after this're insane!!

ku98 11 years, 2 months ago

We suck against the zone. We are going to get a #4 seed, play a scrappy #13 from some random Southwestern Chick Fil A conference, and we are going to suffer...
We were looking so good after the OU and Mizzou games. I think Collins and the gang thought they had it all figured out. Everybody stunk today, not just Collins... All of them did. I am starting to think Marcus Morris had to become our go-to-guy. That's how bad it is.

mbmerriman 11 years, 2 months ago

sherron needs to play PG and not shoot as much, dont stop shooting but please stop shooting less, when he gets everyone involved we win, when he is selfish and takes 20 shot. He was allen iverson today and we lost

MarchSadness 11 years, 2 months ago

Can't believe I skipped class for that! Well, at least my user name is relevant again.

Daniel Cummings 11 years, 2 months ago

Guess those fears of Sherron leaving early are effectively put to rest...

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

Aligned: he didn't "jack up twenty shots", he jacked up 32!!!!!!!

The rest of the team combined, made 30 attempts.... That is NOT KU basketball.

The fact that Aldrich got 5 attempts, thats just embarrassing. We should be running our entire offense through Aldrich, not having Collins jack up contested 3's, and out of control spinning layups against 3 guys a foot taller than him.

I've been blasting Collins all year for this stuff, and people have been writing it off as "Well he has to because he's the only one that can score". I call BS. Collins went from our savior in the first 10 games of the season, to our crutch in the last half of it.

kuhawksr1 11 years, 2 months ago

News Flash for any potential 13 seed in the NCAA tournament. To beat Kansas simply play zone defense and shoot the three ball. Sherron can take care of the rest.

sdoyel 11 years, 2 months ago

In defense of Cole, HCBS is not being creative enough offensively to help get Cole more shots. Bill, what you're doing ain't working! Figure out how to get Cole the ball against the zone D!

jrbill67 11 years, 2 months ago

Overconfident, poor effort, coupled with dumb basketball got KU just what they deserved.

InfiniteJ 11 years, 2 months ago

Let's hope KU doesn't play in any of those early starting games during the NCAA tournament.....they have played like crap in those 11:30 am tip-off games this year......Michigan St., UMass, Baylor.....

c0bra 11 years, 2 months ago

"I am starting to think Marcus Morris had to become our go-to-guy. That's how bad it is."

Dear God, I had the same thought. Terrifying.

ku98 11 years, 2 months ago

162515, not we're the second #1 to lose in the quarterfinals. #1 seed Iowa State in 2001 lost in the quarter finals to who else.... BAYLOR.

Joe Joseph 11 years, 2 months ago

Play zone and shoot the 3 has always been the key to success against Kansas--regardless of coach it seems.

nettiepie 11 years, 2 months ago

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. My gut told me this morning that KU will get beat in the 2nd round of NCAA. Since I always overestimate how well they'll do (except last year) I will back off on that and go with getting beat in the 1st round. Too young. Too inexperience in the big arena.

Alan Mills 11 years, 2 months ago

Too many "wine and cheese" fans on this post! We'll be fine. Let's all be clear...we weren't going to find ourselves seeded 1 or 2. 4 or 5 would be just right, maybe even 6. Next, Collins has won more games than he's lost for us. His play has been stellar in conference. All these comments about him shooting too much. If he makes one or two more shots, we win and you are all singing his praises! In fact, his second half play gave us a chance. We shot poorly as a team today. Not just Collins. If we shoot 50%, we win. We had untimely turnovers. And, we missed. Our defense was poor in the first half, and we couldn't stop them on key possessions down the stretch. Simply put, the better team won today.

I'm sure you've all watched plenty of college basketball this year. So, here's a silver lining. There isn't a team out there that we cannot beat. True, there are also any number of teams we can lose to. But, we are good enough to beat anyone. So, try to enjoy the ride. We lost. Baylor was better than us today. End of story.

Bill Kackley 11 years, 2 months ago

Please NBA take Collins. Not really. Granted he was terrible today. But Self kept saying it was Sherron's team and he really isn't a point guard. He is a combo guard period. We need an outstanding point guard. Don't see us getting it yet. Let's get back to KU basketball. Assists, assists, & assists. And tough defense. Well football is just a little over 5 months away. Never thought the day would come when we would be saying wait till football.

kennethst 11 years, 2 months ago

crimsoninracine-you're exacly right.....and all of you whiners need to shut-up about Sherron Collins!!! He is an awesome player that had a crappy game. Deal with it.

Dyrk Dugan 11 years, 2 months ago

Sherron is a great just wasn't his day. 25 threes is way too much as a team...and the whole team should take the blame. Collins will take more blame as well, because this is HIS we won the league with Sherron, and now we've lost 1st round of the league tourney with Sherron.

as a program, we've had some firsts with Coach Bill. 1st time in the seeded NCAA tourney that we've lost 1st round...happened twice in a row. there's also a national title thrown in there...and multiple league titles. Look, we DOMINATE the Big 12....period, case closed. but, you cannot, them all.

we'll learn from this, or it will be another quick tourney exit. i bet on the former.

InfiniteJ 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't think KU is good enough to beat UConn, Pitt, or UNC.....I'm a hardcore Jayhawk fan....but I'm also a realistic one.....this year (and at this point) a Sweet 16 appearence should be viewed as a successful season.

arcticjhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

I am absolutely amazed at the negativity that the jayhawk faithful have on this websites posts. We absolutely deserve a 4 seed after the way we have played against T.Tech and Baylor, but come on people. Two bad losses does not erase the potential danger that Kansas presents in the Big Show, nor does it erase the amazing job that Bill Self and the team have done this season. I think it's time to take the shot in arm over the bad losses, get over it, and start thinking about the future. A good break from the action so Bill can revamp and address the current issues will definately help us. From what I heard, there is also still a possibility that Kansas will play in the Sprint Centre given the considerations towards the economy and university budgets by the selection committee. Basically what I'm trying to express is that people need to give these kids a break and leave the past two bad losses exactly where they should the past. Bring on the 4th seed! We're going to run with that too!!!

Rock Chalk from the Arctic.

JayhawkPurist 11 years, 2 months ago


Your comment that Rush, Chalmers, and Arthur could've averaged 25 last year if they shot as much as Collins this year is totally off. Put any of those three on this year's team in Collins' place, and they'd be struggling just the same to try and carry the team when Morningstar and Reed aren't shooting well, Taylor disappears for long stretches, Aldrich is cold, the twins are spotty, and Little is ineffective.

Given the fairly significant pedestal the top 3 or 4 teams have place themselves upon, there's a big difference between 3 and 4 seed in that 3 doesn't have to face 1 until Elite Eight round, whereas 4 does it in Sweet Sixteen. Let's hope other similarly situated teams to KU get knocked off in their respective tourneys so that KU can grab a 3.

Aligned 11 years, 2 months ago

Let's get our facts straight regarding shooting percentages:

Sherron shot 30%

The rest of the team combined shot 45%

kennethst 11 years, 2 months ago

Infinite J-I agree completely with never know-but I would say KU can't beat UConn or UNC.....of course they have a chance-but a small one.

Look for KU to be awesome the next 2 years though......not this year.

ku98 11 years, 2 months ago

On a positive note, Marcus Morris has been pretty good in the last 3 games. He looks more aggressive with the ball. He fouls less often. He does not turn the ball over too much. He could turn into a pretty decent scoring option, once he becomes a more reliable FT shooter.

rockchalkmillhouse25 11 years, 2 months ago

Sherron had a bad game...but who didn't?? You can't allow a team that has struggled for most of the year come out and gain confidence. KU needs to come out ready to play from the opening tip. They shot poorly and didn't execute in crunch time. If they play like that in the tourney its gonna be very sad to watch!

ku98 11 years, 2 months ago

Theutus, Sherron did not shoot 32 times... The 12 threes are including in the 20 shots he took.

Nick Cole 11 years, 2 months ago

Wow, that was pathetic. Sherron = way to untrustworthy Cole = needs the ball more Team = lazy pansies

Granted, there were some bad calls but we can't use that as an excuse. We have played like cr@p the last three games, thus the reason we are 1-2 in our last three (which were all against UNRANKED teams). How can you play so well for a couple weeks (wins against OU and mu) and then blow it the last three games? And I don't want to hear about how young this team is. That drum is out of tune. These guys have an entire regular season under their belt. They are no longer "freshman", no excuses. It appears to me that these little boys think they have earned respect. One of the Baylor players yesterday said they were going to win. How did that alone not fire up these kids? And KU starts the game and digs themselves into a 17 point hole. Well good job fellas, congrats on an early 1st round exit from another tournament courtesy of another "B" school with a "B" mascot. Can we bring Collins off the bench in out NCAA tourney opener?

Aligned 11 years, 2 months ago


Did you watch the same game I did? Taylor was great; 4 of 7 from the field which included 2 of 3 behind the arc; 2 of 2 from the line; 2 rebounds; 3 assists and a steal. Cole was 4 of 7 with 14 rebounds.

The reason we lost today was because of wasted offensive opportunities due to the wrong guy shooting the ball.

BigTamale 11 years, 2 months ago

Fall behind early and make a comeback...this is getting really old.

jayhawkintexas 11 years, 2 months ago

When you look at the box score, the game really came down to turnovers, steals and two-point field goal shooting. My advice to the team: cut out the stupid passes and turnovers and don't fall in love with the 3 ball if they aren't falling. Ball movement was really good today and the shots weren;t falling but we tried to make threes when twos would have worked.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

Did not see it, but very interesting loss, despite the fact that I hate conference tourneys now more than ever before.

It cames down to 5 more strips by them, four more TOs by us, and them shooting 45% to our 40% FG over all and 69% FTs for them vs. 60% FTs for us.

Oh, and their bench outscored ours 29-20.

The other eye popper is that Cole only got 5 shots.

We outrebounded them slightly and really got on the offensive glass.

We shot the same trey percentage--32% in both cases.

Basically, they beat us at our own game: 70 point take what they give us.

Three other statistics indicate drivers also:

  1. no one on KU got more than 3 fouls, which means the guys were not really amped up and going full tilt boogie.

  2. Sherron had 5 TOs himself and an off shooting day.

  3. Reed and Morningstar were 2-9, which not only means they were cold, but when combined with Cole's low touches, implies that Baylor decided to turn it into a game of their three pointing shooting versus ours and throw everything into denying Cole his points. The strategy was logical, wise and it worked. We could have been slaughtered had Baylor shot well today.

All of which explains why posters are screaming about Cole not getting enough touches, but, at the same time, in Bill Ball, if the opponent takes away something, it is the central tenant of the game to beat them with what they give us. They apparently gave us the trey stripe.

We all knew this was not a great team, just a very good one when it was hitting on all cylinders.

Tough luck for the Hawks, but there are more chances for glory. Young teams can't help but be up and down. They got a down out of their system. Maybe now they are ready to win another 6 in the Madness! They will be very dangerous in the Madness in that first round.

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

I 100% agree Aligned, Taylor was solid today. He should have gotten a lot more looks, but Collins was too busy being worthless.

Daniel Cummings 11 years, 2 months ago

Game's over...move on. Let's talk about Tyshawn. I'd sure like to see that guy step up a bit more and not dish the rock so quickly. He can be our x factor. Dribble penetration and dish to Morris(s) or Cole...or a kick-out to Sherron or Brady.

kennethst 11 years, 2 months ago

Big Tamale is right on......the odds will catch up with

Rick Arnoldy 11 years, 2 months ago

"As Sherron goes, so go the Jayhawks." That ought to tell you how important he is to the team. No one else seems to step up when he is off. The key is to harness the talent for good, not evil.

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

ohioburg, in order for someone else to "step up", Collins would have to PASS THE BALL.

Instead, we try to run an offense to the point that it comes back to Collins and he must force up a terrible shot, or drive into 3 bigs.

Collins wasn't our "key to success" today, he was our weakest link.

jncarlsbad 11 years, 2 months ago

TRICK QUESTION: Did Self set us up for a potential loss to get Cole healthy? Self is a smart guy! How come Sherron was posting up on a play, that seems very odd to me.

jchief40 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't see how Sherron would go to the NBA after this season. I really don't. I also thought I remember getting the impression from Self's last press conference that the NCAA tournament was more important that the Big 12 tournament.

jchief40 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't see how Sherron would go to the NBA after this season. I really don't. I also thought I remember getting the impression from Self's last press conference that the NCAA tournament was more important than the Big 12 tournament. ..

DrJerky 11 years, 2 months ago

Games can be broken down to the nth degree, but one constant for success is intensity. It's OK to have a bad game now and again, but it's inexcusable to play with the horrible energy level that we played with today and last week against Tech. It's March for Pete's sake. Maybe this team could learn a few lessons from our football team.

FYI, this loss is the first time in Big XII tourney history that a #1 seed has fallen to a #9 seed. Great to have another "first."

yates33333 11 years, 2 months ago

KU has a difficult time with teams whose name start with "B". It's a bitch. My first thought was, oh, no, not again.

Daniel Cummings 11 years, 2 months ago

Time to get off Sherron's back...doesn't anyone remember what he did in Norman?!?!?! We've always wanted the guy that wasn't afraid to take the big shot when needed and we have it in Sherron. Sure they didn't fall today but that's basketball. I'll take my chances with him being the leader of this team anyday.

JayhawkPurist 11 years, 2 months ago

Aligned, Haven't seen the game yet, but I wasn't saying Collins doesn't make bad decisions on pretty often. I was simply responding to mahkmood and other posters who like to say that if Rush or Chalmers or Robinson were in Collins' shoes, they'd perform much better than Collins. It's just not true. Collins is playing with a much less seasoned group of teammates, and as a result, he's forced to create his own shot way more than Chalmers, Rush, or Robinson were every forced to do. Granted, Collins tries to hard to create his own shot, and does it too often when he could just as easily get open looks if he'd allow his shots to come through the offense, but to say that Chalmers or Rush would be averaging 25 on this year's team if they shot as much as Collins is a flawed argument.

GoldenArches 11 years, 2 months ago

You guys are hard on Sherron, he was the only one that wanted to shoot it today. Cole got doubled the whole game which means he had to kick it out and someone had to take the shot.

Lance Hobson 11 years, 2 months ago

This team is heading on the wrong direction. The rest may help, but they're still to inconsistent to make a long run.

jhokfan 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm not that disappointed. I've never been a fan of this tournament and though it will hurt their seeding it won't make it so difficult as to keep them from winning. At least they will be well rested.

jaydork 11 years, 2 months ago

Points per shot this game:

Taylor: 1.71 Aldrich: 1.60 Mc Morris: 1.20 Reed: 1.20 Little: 1.09 Collins: 0.80 Mk Morris: 0.50 Morningstar: 0.40

Season averages:

Aldrich: 1.58 Taylor: 1.46 Reed: 1.41 Mc Morris: 1.37 Little: 1.33 Mk Morris: 1.32 Morningstar: 1.30 Collins: 1.28

Collins/Aldrich shots in bad losses this season:

Umass: 21 Collins, 8 Aldrich Texas Tech: 19 Collins, 5 Aldrich Baylor: 20 Collins, 5 Aldrich

Collins/Aldrich shots in our good wins this season:

Washington: 12 Collins, 12 Aldrich Siena: 13 Collins, 13 Aldrich Oklahoma: 14 Collins, 10 Aldrich Missouri: 14 Collins, 13 Aldrich Texas: 19 Collins, 9 Aldrich Kansas State: 11 Collins, 13 Aldrich Kansas State: 11 Collins, 6 Aldrich Texas A&M: 14 Collins, 13 Aldrich Oklahoma State: 12 Collins, 12 Aldrich

Collins is a great player, but he's also our most inefficient shooter. He needs to act more like a point guard and less like a shooting guard.

BCRavenJHawkfan 11 years, 2 months ago

Not exactly sure how many turn overs we had (I can never find a box score on this site) but my guess is it was like the majority of our games, too damn many. More than the other team in this contest I bet. When you go cold you just can't turn it over.

I said it many weeks ago, if there were one thing to change it has to be reduce the turn overs.

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

Amen Jaydork, finally someone who is a realist, vice a blind supporter.

GoldenArches 11 years, 2 months ago

It is easy to say he is our most inefficient shooter just by pure stats but Collins is asked to take tough shots. Brady, Tyrel and even Cole aren't asked to take bailout shots, they aren't asked to create shots on their own. Yes he takes tough shots but he also makes tough shots. Today they were falling, maybe next game they will fall.

Aligned 11 years, 2 months ago

Look, I like Sherron as much or more than the next guy. He’s been really good in most games and fantastic in some too. When he’s best though is when he plays within the offense and creates opportunities for other players. He didn’t do that today.

And what’s this line I’ve been hearing this entire year about this being “Sherron’s team”? It’s no more his team than it is any of the other players team. That’s why it’s called a “team”. Actually I suppose if you’re going by the amount of sweat invested over the years, you’d have to call it Kleinmans team.

janeyb 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't know where to find the half-time stats, but I would swear it was the Team--not Collins who brought us back in the first half. It is hard for the Team to score when Collins brings the ball down and pops an airball without giving his teammates a touch, or does his famous drive into the trees. The problem with Collins' shot judgement and his tendancy to forget about the post players has been discussed on here many times, even after wins---and some fans were worried what would happen after he was allowed to wave off plays during the Oklahoma game.

Collins is a great player, but emotionally immature as when he showed up with that ridiculous haircut in the early season and played awful and when he sat and cradled the trophy between his legs last weekend. I thought that was just weird! He needs another year in college, but I really rather he would go to the NBA and let the rest of the Team have a chance to develop. I guess there is a good chance Cole will leave with his dad laid off from work. I hope his family situation works out and he chooses to stay another year.

Ed Fox 11 years, 2 months ago

Just a point of order, Tyshawn does bring the ball up a lot. It's not always an issue of Sherron "not passing," sometimes it's Tyshawn passing the ball immediately. Sometimes no one else steps up, drives to the basket, or is willing to take open shots. Tyshawn passes up a lot of open 3's, even though he's been hitting them lately. Brady often passes up the 3 unless it's a called play. Brady and Tyrel probably have the ability to drive to the hole more, but they don't do it - often they are waiting for Sherron to do what he does. Part of the problem may be with Coach's statements about this being Sherron's team. From that, the rest of the guys defer to Sherron and he's trying to take that role (which did help us win the regular season Big XII, by the way).

It's really frustrating to watch him have this type of game, but he IS playing the role that Coach defined for him earlier in the season. Coach DID say that he should shoot 18-20 times a game to start the season. Now we all know that others can play bigger roles, that the team would be stronger if that wasn't the case, but bad habits formed, the rest of the team started relying on him, and now, frankly, he's pretty worn out. This problem is more systematic than just "Sherron's a ball hog and he sucks." This is a team problem. When Sherron's role was different (last year), no one here was complaining that he sucked. Always remember, without Sherron, there is no NC. Those of you who have turned on him now must have lost sight of that. Frankly, I'll take a Big XII regular season championship, a first round Big XII tournament exit, and whatever we get in the NCAA tournament during this season in exchange for the NC last year that Sherron helped win.

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

GodenArches, nobody is asking Collins to take heavily contested shots... Did Self say he wanted him taking shots? Yeah.

But I guarantee you he didn't mean contested shots 8 feet behind the arch without so much of a pass on the offensive end.

We want people to take GOOD looks. And quite honestly, i trust Morningstar and Reed to take those shots long before I trust Collins to hit one. Morningstar had a terrible game today, but I don't blame him for anything because he took GOOD looks. Collins on the otherhand tried to force things, as always, and played beyond his ability.

I true leader knows their limits, and does whatever it takes to get the ball in the hands of whoever is hot. Today that wasn't him, but he fired the ball like it was.

milehighhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Jesus, kids - grow up.

We played a terrible game, but that's no reason to pile the attacks on Sherron. Where the hell would we be without him this year???

Act like a fuc%ing Jayhawk.

thesquad 11 years, 2 months ago

Anyone regrouped yet?

Let's all keep in mind that Sherron Collins is the main reason we have won 26 games this year-- let's also not forget that we have 26 wins in a year after we lost all 5 starters.

He's not going to play well every game-- he's human. It's clear that when the thought of a loss shows up he feels he needs to shoot more to help us win.. which has worked in some games and not so much in the others.

Take Sherron Collins off our team and we suckkkkkk. Let's just face it.

It's obvious Aldrich needs to get more touches... 5 shots is ridiculous. He needs 12 or 13 a game come the big dance. Hopefully we can regroup and get back to top form soon. Sherron and Cole playing well, along with good help from Taylor, Morningstar, and Little, and we'll be able to make a deep run.

Let's not forget that we have the best coach in the country.

Let's take our seed - whatever it is - and do work.

Rock Chalk

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

milehighhawk, blind support for anyone is ignorant to say the least.

Just because your American do you support everything Bush did? hypocrite.

BCRavenJHawkfan 11 years, 2 months ago

Where is JRoss on this post when needed most to calm the natives?

GoldenArches 11 years, 2 months ago

Theutus, I never stated he was asked to take heavily contested shots. i said he was asked to take bailout shots or tough shots. He had some bad misses today but he also had some good makes Remember the two back to back 3's Collins hit in the second half both were quick but they went in. I don't recall Collins in this game today taking any three's that far back. Yes the guy took some bad shots but heck who else was going to take shots. Reed missed 4 wide open 3's, Brady missed 4 wide open 3's not to mention his poor defense on Dunn in the half court and in transition. This was a total team effort in my opinion. We didn't play defense early and late we had some lapses on the defensive end.

kennethst 11 years, 2 months ago

Well....I think we are all a bit guilty of getting too excited about this team.......they had a good year and some bright moments......but really the season is now over. This team cannot and will not ne competitive in the NCAA.

Look for KU to go from good to great though next year and maybe even better the year after. Sadly....this year is now over.

thesquad 11 years, 2 months ago

Whatever dude, I'm not giving up until the 'Hawks have played their last game.

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

Golden, I agree to an extent, but here is my view on Collins.

I think Collins is a fantastic athlete, and he's given us a lot this year. What people are pissed off about (myself included), is that he doesn't learn.... at all. He doesn't have the mental capacity to actually be an effective leader...

He's making the same stupid mental mistakes (if not more) than the freshman make. People write it off as "well he has to" but thats not the case at all. We have plenty of people that can score, and plenty of people that are better shooters than Collins. Does Collins feed them the ball? Nope. Everythings gotta revolve around him.

If he would just control himself, not take so many shots (because he's not a true shooting guard in the first place), and focus on CREATING shots for others, and feeding the post... We'd have won by 10 easy. Even on an off night.

Whats more scary in my opinion, is that Self lets him get away with it. I don't know anyone, and I do mean anyone, that doesn't agree with this assessment... I just don't get it. I hate to focus on his negatives, but when they are so blatantly obvious and Self is doing nothing to curb it... It's aggravating and disappointing as a fan.

Jared Grillot 11 years, 2 months ago

jaydork - I don't know if your numbers show a problem with Collins as much as they do that we absolutely need to get the ball to Cole on a regular basis to win tough games. If we're not feeding the post for points, then the other team will say what I say every time we face a team that relies solely on the three... "Lock up the middle... they can shoot from out there all day, for all I care." Because they will lose. Live and die by the three, and you will lose more than you win. Get the ball to Cole. THEN we'll get open perimeter looks, and those three's will open up the middle... its a beautiful cycle of scoring. Plenty of days to practice this now. Let's get it together, Hawks. We've got six more games to play.

rockKUchalk 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm kind of amazed at how many negative comments the KU fans are posting. For one, it was a team loss; it wasn't one player's fault. They are also a young team and they played better than most people thought they would this season. Yeah, we didn't play to our potential, but that happens to every team once in awhile. I understand being frustrated because believe me, I am too, but that doesn't mean you have to take jabs at the players. Be a loyal fan and stand behind your team...don't trash them just because they lost. ROCK CHALK!!!

c0bra 11 years, 2 months ago

Theutus, I agree with you sort of, but I think it's due more to the nature of college basketball players than anything else.

I spent the championship game (and most other games) terrified of the mistakes that the players were going to make. I'm not saying anything new, but it comes down to consistency, which comes from maturity and experience.

As good as the players played the last couple years, I still worried about Rush losing confidence and not being able to make his shots, Wright making absolutely retarded passes, and Sherron losing control while dribbling into traffic. It's really hard to trust someone when you've seen how bad they can be, and how easily they can go from good to bad. That's not a knock on their effort or talent, just their consistency. But consistency wins you games :\

seattlejayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

kennethst, Do you remember Danny and the Miracles? It's not over, It's only just begun. Maybe KU will lose in the first round to a #13(I sure hope not), or maybe we will get hot and Detroit will come into focus(please,please). If your a fan, just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Brandon Hull 11 years, 2 months ago

Sherron gets us to 25 wins. No doubt about that. He's a great player. This is a young, inconsistent team around him. Blah blah blah. We all get that.

But he's fully capable, in a SINGLE GAME, of costing you with his poor decisions. That's all a few of us are saying. That's what happened today. The stats by jaydork are a perfect example of that, too. When he said after the Mizzou game that "we had a tick in our ear," or whatever it was, what he means is, "I had a tick in my ear." Not that the phrase really makes sense, but you get the idea. Sometimes he just decides to go off, and then no one knows which Sherron we'll get.

It doesn't mean the sky is falling. Life goes on. Sherron is a great player. Kansas is still one of the all-time great teams. Next year will be great, and this season has been successful. Bill Self is a good coach. Hopefully you go back to work. Your wives and kids still love you. Etc. But as far as the Sherron conversation goes, he doesn't know when to turn off the shooting and turn on the playmaking--which entails more than shooting. That's all. It's an opinion a few of us have based on how a few games have played out this year. It's nothing personal.

thesquad 11 years, 2 months ago

rockKUchalk knows where its at.

If you guys are true fans then brush this one off and be ready to support the 'Hawks come the big dance.

P.S. We won the Big 12 Regular Season Title (again)

kennethst 11 years, 2 months ago

Seattle JHawk-fair're right....the 88 Team was pretty much down and they went all the you never know. thx

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

c0bra i 100% agree. Fact of the matter is that Collins WOULD be consistent, if he just played smarter, instead of harder. He tries to play outside of his ability, and that costs us a great deal.

Hell, i'd say Collins would easily be the best point-guard in the nation if he focus'd on a couple of things. Take less shots himself, and focus on creating more shots for everyone else. He should have 10 assists a game feeding Aldrich. It's a crime that nobody feeds him the ball.

thesquad 11 years, 2 months ago


We all agree Aldrich needs to get the ball. During the game though I've noticed that it does become tough to feed it inside. But we definitely need to find a way.

Collins isn't perfect and he takes some bad shots and too many shots or whatever.. but lets not forget how much pressure is on him becasue of this very reason. If we lose. whether Collins takes 10 shots 20 shots or 30 shots.. the fans are looking to blame him. He's a damn good player and we all realize that.. we just need to realize that he isn't gonna be our hero every game, and hopefully he minimizes his bad decisions. Cause every decision he makes isn't always gonna be the right one.

GoldenArches 11 years, 2 months ago

Hey Theutus I see exactly where you are coming from with regards to Self allowing certain things.

Overall i think we have just over reacted to a bad loss today. Yes we could have played better but we didn't. Cole getting only 5 shots is bad but Self has to do a better job of running plays for him as well as Cole doing a better job of posting up, recognizing the double team quicker and taking the 10-15 foot jumper if the defense is giving it to you.

jhokfan 11 years, 2 months ago

Thank you seattlejayhawk. Of course that team had the best player in college but your point is still valid. We might get a lower seed but it won't create a scenario that will make it too difficult to overcome. Anyone remember what we were seeded in '88?

Brandon Hull 11 years, 2 months ago

Yes a bad loss. The sun rises tomorrow and KU is still in the tourney with an acceptable seed. We start it up again next week.

thesquad 11 years, 2 months ago

Hopefully some things can happen and we can still grab a 3 seed, but I highly doubt we will drop as low as 5.

Ron_Kellogg 11 years, 2 months ago

It pains me to say this, but I sense another first round exit coming next week.

JayJayPG 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm having trouble even remembering when our last conference tourney loss was prior to today. Who was it?

Kenny George 11 years, 2 months ago

We have played three teams in a row with a "nothing to lose" attitude and we didn't come to play in those games. We just simply need to realize the season is on the line and play with some purpose.

Sherron was obviously limping durning the game after the knee-on-knee collision early in the game. He was shooting off of one leg and it showed. Sherron will get it done in the NCAA's!

Cole played only 29 minutes and wasn't in foul trouble. Cole didn't looked good today and doesn't look 100%.

Baylor blocked 7 shots today and we blocked only 1. Baylor also had 9 steals to our 4 steals. Those two stats were the difference in winning and loosing today.

An aggressive 2-3 zone defense is tough to beat when you can't hit the ocean.........

In most cases during the post season you can attribute youth to being a problem but today our youth played well!!!!

Sherron and Cole cannot play like they did today or it will be an early exit......

First round "B" teams are hell in the Ford Center OKC!

100 11 years, 2 months ago

Just a game.

We looked like we did against Bradley.

We could drop WAY down in the seedings...

Which is pretty remarkable that the second place team wil undoubtedly get a #1 seed.

We could end up as low as a 6 seed, considering how we ended the season (20 pt loss to the 12th place team in the league alongside a loss to the 9th place team, neither of which have even a remote chance of making the NCAA).

I'm not predicting a 6 seed, but it is the equivalent of the #24 team in the country, which many in the seeding committe would argue that's what we are playing like.

Last three games are HUGE for the seeding committee. We flat out sucked, except for the home game.

Didn't a 6 seed win something in 1988?

thesquad 11 years, 2 months ago

A 6 seed???? No way dude.

Bracketology has us at a 2 seed AFTER we lost to Texas Tech.

We'll be fine, definitely a 3 or 4.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 2 months ago

Instead of shooting over the zone defense, I felt that we did not attack it early on in the game. That put us in the hole and led to our settling for low percentage shots. Nonetheless, this is still a team of youngsters and I would have loved for them to get more Big XII Tourney games under their belt. Having said this, Coach has got to get these highly capable guys ready and focused, because in the Big Dance, we have to bring it to the opponent the WHOLE game. We're good, but we just can't rely on comeback afetr comeback. I guess that this is a part of growing up however.

jaydork 11 years, 2 months ago

JGfromPK -

I agree, the numbers are just numbers, and I'm not trying to say that Collins isn't a great player - he is, and he's definitely been a huge part of most of KU's victories. The shot disparity in our losses is likely more a factor of opposing team's doing a better job of defending Aldrich and closing off the passing lanes.

But regardless of that, Collins is still the team's least efficient shooter, and if Aldrich is limited to 4-6 shots per game, I think most fans would like to see the other shots being spread around the team instead of being shouldered by one individual. He does a great job, but putting all your eggs in one basket seems to lead to some dissappointing losses (and some fantastic wins) because all individuals are going to have poor shooting days (or great shooting days). It's frustrating for fans to see the fate of a team seeming to be dependent on one individual's shooting performance.

seattlejayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

I think that Little could have done some special things against that zone had they gotten him the ball a few more times around the free throw line or baseline. Everytime one of the Morris twins got the ball in those situations there was at least a foot or two of space. Little could have blazed that zone, he just never got the ball.

Chris Seferyn 11 years, 2 months ago

Hey everybody - put your shirt and pants back on... the end of the world is not here - yet. This did not affect our seed that much. We were not getting a 2 seed anyway and the worst that can come out of this is dropping to a 4 seed. Granted, that sucks and this team is shaky right now. But we need some time to rest and heal up as opposed to getting beat up more. This game exposed the matchup problems we have on the defensive end with teams with size. Texas was the same kind of thing. We only have 1 true post player - Cole. We're not skilled enough at times to double and rotate. We had all the shots we wanted today, we just couldn't make them because we were pressing on the offensive end. This kind of game need the twins to hit jumpers (which they airball or clank half of them) and slash to the hoop. Bill told them what to do, they just could not execute. Think how different it would be with one more big guy to take up space on D (say Mario was 6'11" and bigger) and the twins could hit the bucket with a 10' wide open jumper? Our 4-13 matchup and the next game is not going to have the size of Baylor or Texas but if they do we're in trouble... we will need Sherron to be lights out.

BTW - is it just me or is that rim on the left side on TV (KU first half Offensive) the tightest of the year? Those rebounds were ejecting off the rim like a trampoline. Baylor had the same deal the second half - a guy even clanged a dunk... just wonderin'

jakehillku 11 years, 2 months ago

there is no reason that either of the twins should be the center of our offense to start a game. We let them get all of the shots at the start and we some how find our self in a 15 point hole every game. Maybe it would be smarter for sherron and cole to start it off and then mix their game in. They arent strong enough offensively for us to rely on them at the beg. of a game.

Rodney Stice 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't have to call in sick tomorrow. I still feel real sick right now.

ObiWan 11 years, 2 months ago

He missed it, but who else do you want to shoot when we're down three? We probably could have moved the ball a bit for a better look, but ultimately Sherron or Tyrel is taking that shot. Not the best shot we could have taken, but the right player shot it. Hopefully this just makes them hungrier!

100 11 years, 2 months ago


Obviously we won't be a 6.

Just taking it to the extreme -- we dropped the ball bigtime today.

Looking forward to next year -- if a team throws a zone at us, Withey & Aldrich take care of it underneath.


theno1kufan 11 years, 2 months ago

i guess its better that we crap out pant in the 1st round of the big 12 than the ncaa"s way to get this years killer b out of your system early

Craig Lang 11 years, 2 months ago

KU needs to mentally prepared to win in the NCAA. I hate to raise this stat, but the last (and only other) time a 1-seed fell in its first game in the Big 12 (Iowa State), it collapsed in the first round of the NCAA tournament.

I'm not saying this will happen to KU (knock on wood), BUT Self needs to get this team mentally prepared and motivated to WIN that first round game, regardless of who the opponent is. The recent losses to Baylor and Texas Tech should demonstrate to this team that it needs to take every opponent seriously. I don't think they did that today.

kase04 11 years, 2 months ago

I am so sick and tired of this team living and dieing on the play of Eric Chenowith A.K.A. Cole Aldrich! 8 Points? I mean seriously, at what point does this guy decide that he really is looked to as a leader of one of the top notch bball schools in the nation and should maybe show up to play with some consistancey? 1 game out of every 10 isn't enough to deserve a Kansas jersey let alone a starting slot on the team! I know the twins are young, but I'd pick either of them over Cheno-Alrich! Coach said Cole had to take responsibility for this one....I should hope so! The worst game I've ever seen him play. I thought I couldn't hate a single player more than I hated Eric Chenowith....turns out his name is Cole Aldrich!

jahawkdave 11 years, 2 months ago

Collins has been great and has been a huge part of alot of big KU wins, especially the 2008 NC. However, he needs to make better decisions and know when he is having an off shooting game, like against Texas Tech. Today he wasn't as bad but he wasn't feeling it either. If he's not shooting well he needs to stop chucking up crucial shots and look for other options. I appreciate he wants to step up and take the big shots but utilize your teamates and get the win, he can't try to do it all, all the time.

Hawktacular 11 years, 2 months ago

Everyone needs to sit back and enjoy a March with no pressure and minimal expectations for the ‘Hawks. It is a down year (a rebuilding year) for Kansas. What do we have to lose THIS YEAR? We’re fresh off a National Championship. We’ve already won a Big XII title and did so with a solid comeback effort under intense pressure vs. Texas. Cole and Sherron will be back next year. Our young team will continue to improve. We’ll add some top-tier talent…and we’ll be right back where Kansas belongs next year. Everyone needs to chill out. Be the program whose team suffers an early exit, not the program whose team suffers an early exit and then turns on their squad. The tone on this message board is as ridiculous as our loss was today.

caddie733 11 years, 2 months ago

It's not just about Sherron's poor shooting...I mentioned this on a board discussing Sherron as an NBA prospect. He is not a true point guard, which is why his stock is lower than guys like Lawson, Patty Mills, Darren Collison. Look at Sherron's assist to turnover ratio (today, 6 assists and 5 turnovers)...I think Sherron needs to stay and learn how to distribute the ball without the turnovers, play more under control. Basically, his airball at the end is like a turnover (no chance for a rebound), and he made a horrible pass to the corner when there was still a glimmer of hope. He won't be seeing playing time at the next level if he keeps turning the ball over, simple as that.

Cody Stumma 11 years, 2 months ago

Okay, you guys need to suck up and get over it. Seriously. So they don't get to play in Kansas City now. Big Whoop. Its just a seeding and in case some of you have forgotten - the Men's Team hasn't done well in Kansas City this year anyways... Now... How about helping the other Jayhawk Basketball team that WON today and cheering them on tomorrow?

You all wanted that Kansas vs. Oklahoma match-up, and now you have it at 11 am tomorrow morning on FSN! I better see at least half that Cox Center tomorrow filled with Jayhawks!

InfiniteJ 11 years, 2 months ago

Since when does KU have another basketball team? Are you talking about the girl's team? Dude, that totally doesn't count.

Alan Mills 11 years, 2 months ago

Interesting posts since I was on earlier. Collins has shouldered the brunt of the whining today. He probably should...and he'd probably say so. He played poorly. But, he's been a solid leader for us all year. So, perhaps we should all give Baylor a little credit. They had everything to win today...we did not. They played well...we did not. They took away opportunities for Cole to touch the ball. He's not going to step out and hit shots like Darrel could. Neither are the Morris brothers. And, like it or not, Little is undersized. So, Baylor did a great job of limiting what we got. We've beaten teams all year who did that to us. But, we've also lost to teams who played well against us. We ARE the defending champs, and everyone is gunning for us. Remember the loss in Columbia? They reacted like they'd won the National Championship! So did Tech last week. I'm sure they're partying in Waco like we did last April. Sadly, we haven't had much to play for since the Mizzou game, and we've looked like it. We can't do that next week. And, I don't expect we will.

We'll be fine. I'm not wiling to say we've overachieved this year, because we have a talented young team. We might have a better record than the experts expected. But, those same experts certainly picked us to win today. Anything can happen in this funny game. I'd expect us to get better for next week. Did you see Self's comments after the game? Make them walk around campus tomorrow. Practice so hard they can't dwell (like so many posters will) on today's game. And, prepare for next week. So, please, stop talking about how good we'll be next year! This season isn't over yet!

One final word: I'd still say we are good enough to beat anyone. Not if we play like we did today. But, we're still good enough. Could we lose early? Sure. So could any other team. That's the beauty of March Madness! Let's enjoy the ride.

Cody Stumma 11 years, 2 months ago

Oh really? Why doesn't the Women's Team count?

In case you haven't noticed InfiniteJ,

Kansas has won their past 5 of 6 games with victories over then #5 Baylor (BY 25 POINTS), then #22 Iowa State (By 11 points), AT OSU (By 15 Points), and of course Nebraska now twice counting today.

This Women's Team has pushed themselves from no postseason to a possible NCAA BID if they UPSET Oklahoma TOMORROW!

kvskubball 11 years, 2 months ago


Did you actually watch the game????

Cole got 5 shots, and that isn't because he turned the ball over or passed it back out. It is because he didn't get the ball. You are way off base attacking his ability.

Of all the players on this team, I want Cole on my team, because he doesn't gripe even when the guards are air-balling threes. He works hard, gets position, tries to rebound, tips the ball around, hustles.

I can't believe you're really a hawk fan if you watched the game and are attacking Cole! Unbelievable!!!!!!

InfiniteJ 11 years, 2 months ago

Why do you care if someone is talking about next year? It's not like you have to read everything that everyone is posting. If you don't want to to see it you could like......uhhhhhh.....not read it or something.

I'm looking forward to the NCAA Tournament AND next year's team.

I think I prefer the "glass half-empty" fans have to talk smack on your team every once in a while, you're down when they're down, you're up when they're up. Doesn't mean you're a "fair weather fan", it just means you're pissed your team lost.

I doubt that after KU lost to the "Killer B's" in the 1st round a few years ago or when they lost to Rhode Island in '97 that anyone said "YAY! IT'S GREAT TO BE A KU FAN!" and jumped on people for talking about how crappy they played, no, you were ticked that they lost and you rolled with it.

Tony Bandle 11 years, 2 months ago

Interesting yet scary stat:


AWAY [@ opponent conference] 6-2

AWAY [@ ranked opponent non-conference] 0-2

AWAY [neutral court] 1-3

Losing 5 out of 6 games which could essentially be considered the atmosphere of NCAA Tourney games [ unfamiliar venues, unknown teams, uneven support-although Hawk Nation somewhat dampens this problem] all points to a young team still needing to learn how to win in all circumstances. I am afraid that possibly the only way these young Hawks are going to learn how to to lose.

No mistake, I feel they are quite capable of going sweet 16 and beyond, BUT....please don't be shocked or totally bummed if they don't.

It has still been a fantastic season, that no matter what, will produce an even better team next year!!!

Rock Chalk Forever!!!!!!

Bill Shaw 11 years, 2 months ago

How many lob-dunks were attempted?

Whatever happened to the fast break?

Was that really a KU basketball team?

KUFool 11 years, 2 months ago

If someone's posted this already, I apologize. By the numbers:

In our wins this season, Sherron has attempted 12.5 FGs per game or 23.9% of our total FG attempts. In our losses this season (all of them - not just the blowouts), Sherron has attempted 18 FGs per game (almost 50% more than our wins) or 30% of our total FG attempts.

So taking "being hot" or "being cold" out of it - when Sherron is distributing the rock, we're more effective as a team.

InfiniteJ 11 years, 2 months ago

Code_2008: No, I haven't noticed. Do you know why? Because I'm a dude.

I think I speak for about 90% of the male population when I say; no, the woman's team doesn't count.

I'm not trying to be a D, I'm just being honest.....and somewhat funny.

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

Code_2008, do you go to the debate teams matchups? What about the Chess team? No? and you call yourself a fan?!!!?!? lol.

hypocrite. And for the record, i think womens basketball is about as enjoyable as watching a chess tournament. It's nothing personal, it's just not something I enjoy, and I wouldn't attend and put myself through misery just to say i'm an all around fan.

I still wish them the best though.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 2 months ago

I've been complaining about a lack of leadership from this team all year and getting thrashed for it every week. Where were all you guys then?

Bill really came down hard on Russell last year, but on the court, Russell was 10 times the leader our current "leader" is. Our team executed, played through the offense, administered the defense perfectly. Bill was harder on Russell than our current "leader". If Russell made a boneheaded move, Bill had his butt on the bench in a matter of seconds. Our current leader on the other hand has been allowed to stay in games when it was obvious he didn't have his head, was allowed to wave off plays over and over, only to fumble the ball in a miserable display if his ineffectivness, and allowed to completly ignore his teamates, and try to take over games that he had no business taking over. It's like watching a 10 year old and his father coach who can't say no to his spoiled child.

I'm fed up with our court leader, and I'm really fed up with Bill's unwillingness to pull his butt and sit him on the bench. It was clear in his book that Bill sometimes forgets that he's the boss. There's a great comment in there about Chambers mother telling Bill to be a leader and quit blaming his players. He's done an amazing job with the younger members of this team this year. And I give him major kudos for that. But Bill has neglected to disicpline his leader, the one player who year after year has proven he needs the most discipline.

Max Ledom 11 years, 2 months ago

Everyone needs to go check there pants. 7 freshmen. 2 start. Youngest team ever in KU history. Bill will get them ready. But we also need to have Sherron play good and same with Cole, every game for us to win. Which they didnt today. Its okay. they will come through. But Sherron going 2 - 10.......this is his team he needs to play better.

Check your pants.

Calm down.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk

kvskubball 11 years, 2 months ago

Now for some general comments on the game...

We dig ourselves too big of a hole! Looked like the whole team forgot to answer their wakeup call. Did the team think Baylor was going to role over and die???

Early in the game, it seemed noone wanted to take a shot. Then everyone but Sheron (Who shot too much IMO) and Marcus, (Who isn't hesitant to shoot, and probably had the best game of anyone on the team today) and Cole (Who didn't get the ball much) were hesitant to shoot the ball, even when open.

Tyshawn turned down several good open looks early, then did step up and hit a couple to help us get back in the game in the first half.

Sheron seems to sometimes have a hero-complex instead of being a leader. I don't mind him being willing to take a shot after he's executed the offense and the ball comes back to him, that's the role Coach has given him. I do take exception to his heaving a three, without running the offense, or allowing others to get into position, even though he does sometimes hit those shots. When he misses them, they are almost always easy points for the other team. Or in the case of his last shot, the end of the game. Did you see him after he missed the last shot. He QUIT. He's standing under the basket and the ball is in play and he just stopped playing before the end of the game, yes it was only about 6 seconds, but.....

A lot is asked of Sheron as the 'go to' guy on this young team, but sometimes he puts the blinders on and is determined to do it his way, shoot first. Hey, maybe it will go in! Having said all that...

Theutus, I disagree with you when you say that Sheron does not learn. He has learned and he has gotten less inconsistent as the year has gone on, and more and more of the time he has usually worked to get others involved, but when he doesn't, it has been bad news for KU.

I have always liked the KU way to play ball, team basketball, pass the ball, get a good shot, and get an assist. I dislike it when Sheron seems to think that he has to take every shot (Or when anyone else shoots with 30 seconds on the shot clock, without a single pass, except to dunk it), but I will say that he has improved his decision-making over the course of the year, but he does still revert to shoot-first and ask questions later, sometimes...

Well, if I had to choose, I would much rather lose the first round game in the Big XII tourney than in the NCAA tourney, but if the team plays tentative like it did at the start of the game today, the stay in the tourney may be just as short...Every team in the tournament will be as good or better than Baylor!

InfiniteJ 11 years, 2 months ago

I just checked my pants and everything seems fine.....should I check my shirt as well?

I cannot believe you called Coach Self "Bill" know, if you called Coach Williams "Roy" he would totally stop recruiting you. So maybe you should check your pants.....or something like that.

InfiniteJ 11 years, 2 months ago

What's wrong with being a tool? Tool f'ing rocks....Undertow is an awesome album.

You rock on, Theutus.

bentleytiger 11 years, 2 months ago

Baylor? Wow, way to justify your Blake Griffin-less Big 12 title with a first round loss in the tournament.. The Great KU.. Give me a break.. lol

bigtexasdude7 11 years, 2 months ago

Sherron is "the man" this year whether anyone likes it or not. And he had led the team to the Big 12 title and we will see what happens down the road. In our last 3 losses, he has taken 19 or 20 shots a game. In 2 wins against OU and Mizzou, he took 14 shots. The reason for the lesser shots? He made them. Simple as that. Chill out fellas.

He will learn or KU will get bounced early. When he doesn't play well, it's tough for the Hawks to win. I trust coach Self. Let's see what happens next week before we go off. Who cares about the Big 12 tourney any way. I'd rather have a week and get guys like Brady, who is 4-for-his-last 18 3s, and Cole and Sherron some rest. They look banged up and the whole team looks tired.I'd rather have them resting in Lawrence than fighting in OKC.

If Ku can't beat a 13 seed like Siena, Cleveland State, or Jackass U, then what makes you think they are going to beat Duke or Pit or Carolina. And if they do make a run, then Sherron will lead the way whether you like or not.

Dale Kroening 11 years, 2 months ago

Kane your comments make you a total idiot. You cant be serious?

Bentleytigger how many BB National Championships does Fizzou have?

foamy 11 years, 2 months ago

When will Collins learn that there are four other players on the court and try not to do it all ?

Seth Peattie 11 years, 2 months ago

Bentleytigger can SUCK IT!!!!!!!!! National Champs, bud.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 2 months ago

Bentleytiger: When you come to this website, you must first kiss the ring. That's right, the championship ring. Kneel, and kiss it. That's right, now don't you feel better. One would think that in 110 years or so of basketball that Mizzou would have made it to one Final Four .. one. By accident. But each year, you shoot yourselves in the foot (no pun intended). And you want to gig the 5 time defending Big 12 champs, 3 time tournament champ, on losing a game. One game. Enjoy your pathetic existence and understand that you will always be second class.

The Great KU. The one and only, baby.

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

The up side: with an exceptionally young team we have two all americans in Aldrich and Collins who have saved our asses in about 80% of the games we have won.

The down side: we have two all americans the freshman have learned to depend on in most of our wins. The young guys don't know how to respond when the two main contributers don't contribute.

They're a young team that has made a ton of progress. I hate to see them loose, but again, i'm just watching. I'm sure they feel much worse than i do.

and for you morons still going on about how they should have won, which players true potential is not real, and how terrible they are,...

YOU truely have a problem.

bentleytiger 11 years, 2 months ago

For those that don't know me, I'm the Memphis fan that told you all that neither Xavier nor John would ever wear a KU uniform. Memphis, the future.. KU, finished.. Enjoy your 5 seed in the tourney and second round exit. This is a rebuilding year for us and we will be in the elite 8 at the very worst.. The big 12 is about as good as the SEC this year. Baylor?!!! First round.. And I don't blame you guys, your future looks bleek, so I would dwell on last season's accomplishments as well.. Have a great weekend watching good teams play ball. Oh, I just thought, maybe it was Coach Self's plan to lose so the team could get a few more days of rest..That's it, because I know the GREAT BILL SELF didn't get out coached by a second year nobody..

Tony Bandle 11 years, 2 months ago

Round 1, none of the following, please.. Bucknell, Boston College, Buffalo, Bradley, BYU, Boise State, Ball State, Binghamton, Belmont, Baylor [oops, too late], Butler, Brown, Bowling Green.......

With this loss KU possibly a #3 but maybe a #4, headed to either Minneapolis or Boise

I think this loss does nothing to hurt Bill Self's Coach of the Year recognitions. In fact, I feel that the loss actually enhances his efforts because it shows what a volatilly, youth-fired inconsistent team he has had to mentor, coach, push and teach!! There was no guarantee which team would show up on any given night, yet 25 victories [more than any of us expected] and an undisuted Big Twelve Title [more than any of us even dreamed] is testament to a remarkable job by this coaching staff.

Not that logic actually matters, but NO ONE is ready for the NBA. Everyone should stay, add Withey, Johnson and Robinson next year and LOOK OUT!!!!!!

jaybech 11 years, 2 months ago

I have a question for some of you loyal fans. I think Cole Aldrich is a great player, but am I the only one that has noticed in the second half of quite a few of the conference games down the stretch, that Aldrich looked awful tired. There were quite a few instances where I noticed him with his hands on his knees. I know that he has had some nagging injuries, but I was wondering your opinions on if maybe fatigue could be playing a factor, like in a game today where he only takes 5 shots. I hope not, b/c even though we have been saying it for half of the year, they have to find a way to get him the ball. In a lot of games that he is scoring 15+, the majority of his buckets are off of rebounds, which is great, but we have to get the offense going through him.

Dan Harris 11 years, 2 months ago

Bentleytiger- When you guys win something you can come on our website and pop off. Until then shut the f up! Oh by the way, with both KU and OU losing today I'm going to laugh my ass off when Mizzu finds another way not to win a championship!

Kenny George 11 years, 2 months ago


The reason we did not get fast break points: Baylor simply made shots early and got back on defense to set up their zone defense. You can't run when the other team makes baskets.

Lob Dunks: Their 2-3 zone defense prevents any lob dunks because they are packing it in the paint on defense. They were very good at packing it in and actually going out and defending the perimeter at the same time. Remember UTEP 1992? Syracuse 2003?

Now, I will comment on this: Baylor defense was a 2-3 and I was always taught when the opponent has 2 defenders up top that the offense should be more of a 1-3-1 or 1-2-2. We were actually running a 2-2-1 or 2-1-2 offense and not splitting the two up-front defenders very often. WE DID NOT BREAK DOWN THEIR DEFENSE AT ALL BY DRIVING THE LANE. YOU ATTACK A 2-3 ZONE FROM THE MIDDLE OF THE COURT AND NOT THE SIDES.


Dan Harris 11 years, 2 months ago

Sorry, just now realized you were a Mephis fan , oh well same results you guys have never won anything either!

Jared Grillot 11 years, 2 months ago

Down goes OU too.... what in the heck does that leave? Texas? The gulp tiggers? Wow. Definitely couldn't have called this one today.

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

jaybech- i've seen the same, and i think the man's just getting winded after a long season. He needs some help in there and his young counterparts haven't been able to show a level of skill to take defensive attention off of him. I think he's holding in pretty well considering. I can't see Darrell Arthur doing as well as he has this year all things considered. He has been in a slump lately, hopefully a few days off will help him and the team regroup.

Seth Peattie 11 years, 2 months ago

memphis. up by 9 with 1:30 left in the title game. memphis is going to win it all! wait! no! here's how it went.

mario for THREE!!!


shady dunks on some fat thug, ball bounces off of said thug's head.


suck it, tool.

Dan Harris 11 years, 2 months ago

LA- Don't forget about those bricked free throws, Oh wait the genius Callapari said free throws won't matter! lol

KJRFC 11 years, 2 months ago

Bentleytiger, You've got to be a complete and total loser to want to come onto a KU website to talk smack. I would only expect that behavior from Mizzou fans. Do I or anyone else on this board need to remind you what happened 11 months ago? We beat your ass in the Nat. Champ game. How many of those does your school claim? We've got 5. Eat it. And don't cry about "rebuilding." There is no other school currently in the top 25 that has had to rebuild this year more than the Jayhawks. We lost all 5 starters, 80% of our scoring and 80% or our rebounding, and we STILL won our conference. We are starting our 6th man from last year, another guy that averaged less than 10 minutes a game last year, another guy that played less than 2 minutes a game and only in mop-up duty last year, and two guys who were playing in high school last year, and we STILL won our conference. Coming from the C-USA, you've got no room to talk. How many other teams in YOUR conference have been consistantly ranked all season? We've got 4. Winning the C-USA is about as challenging as getting laid in a whore house with a winning lottery ticket. Most middle schools play more quality hoops than what you find in C-USA. You're conference is a joke and you guys would get destroyed in any of the 5 major conferences, including the lowly SEC. Go chime on your own chat board. Your team won't make it past the second round of the NCAAs.

jayhawkboogeyman 11 years, 2 months ago

There's a lot of negative nancy jayhawk fans on here. the boogeyman says ku will be ok the first 2 rounds of the ncaas and fall in sweet 16, possibly elite 8. The team goes as Collins goes, but you are being too hard on him over one game. Without him, this team would have been horrible. And it is as the much the coach's fault as Collins's when he is allowed to play out of control as he did today. Bill Self is wrong; this is not Collins's team; it is Self's team. Every other player on the team spends several minutes, or in the case of Releford, the entire game on the bench after one mistake, but Self allows Collins to do whatever he wants without penalty or reprimand. Collins is still a college kid trying to find his way, and the coach is letting him down by not coaching him to be a team leader. Self's teams are not supposed to be run by one player; this year it is out of necessity, but Self seems helpless when it comes to coaching Collins, and that is ultimately the problem. Sherron should be the team leader, but Self needs to be the coach, and in games that this team has lost, Self has let Collins be the coach. The coach needs to instruct his guard to get the ball inside to Aldrich or pull him from the game to think about following directions. Self in his post-game comments often seems like he is helpless to get Collins to pass/dump off inside. Collins is about 3 inches too short to be a dominant slasher-type PG, and Self hasn't developed a strategy that maximizes Collins's talents with the rest of the players' in mind as well consistently all season.

jco8394 11 years, 2 months ago and dones don't get you a national championship

Max Ledom 11 years, 2 months ago

haha bentletigger,

Mario for the tie....Got it!

you guys are the most overated team ever what conference is that? oh yeah C USA how many national championships do they have? like 1 or none? and because we beat you the only comback you got is on our young team. btw baylor would destroy every team in your conference except you. you guys suck so bad its funny. i guarentee you loose in the sweet 16. Have fun in your "home court" aka Memphis Grizzlies arena. you guys have terrible history nothing compares to us. suck my rock chalk ba^%$.

5 national titles to 0 36465 final fours to 2 51 conference titles. come up with something better then that you will never make it to the title anytime soon until you play in a big boys conference. didnt 5 years ago Tennessee state southern babtist christian tech a&m win the C USA? i think sooo


100 11 years, 2 months ago

Pitt got beat to top it off. If we would've played our game for three days straight, that was the number 1 seed for the taking...

KUballer 11 years, 2 months ago

Great, this is just what we need... no momentum heading into the tourney. Is this game a wake up call? Or is it just showing us the real KU who can't win without Sherron hitting. We'll see.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

Regarding Theutus on Sherron...

26 games this season Sherron has made Theutus sound like he keeps his keyboard in his colon.

7 games this season, Sherron has made too many mistakes,or had bad shooting nights, or had teammates who didn't bring it, and so made Theutus sound like he had temporarily restored his keyboard to daylight.

Where a board rat chooses to keep his keyboard is entirely up to him, of course, but I can live with this W-L statement, given the talent around Sherron, even if Theutus cannot.

And I do not feel like a hypocrite rejecting Theutus' exceedingly degrading declaration that Sherron Collins is too stupid and undisciplined to learn from his mistakes, or to be a worthy team leader, if I recall his postings above correctly.

Good lord, Sherron was instrumental in winning a national championship last year. This year he leads a green team to 26 wins so far.

We should all be so stupid. Even Theutus.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

Regarding why Sherron puts up so many shots in losses...

The answer seems obvious to me. In a game when you are behind significantly, you want your best guy shooting the rock most of the time in hopes he can drag you back into it.

Regarding why Sherron has a relatively low points per shot...

Other things equal, it is easier to make shots off open looks than contested ones. Most of the players with higher points per shot stats specialize in mostly open look shooting outside, or high percentage shots close in with match-up advantages in effect. Cole just doesn't take many shots, when he doesn't have a good look, or is overmatched. Neither do Tyshawn, Brady, Marcus, or any of the other guys, really. The instructions to these guys from Self is pretty clear: take open looks and leaved contested shooting to Sherron. Sherron is the guy who, when no one else is getting open looks, or when there isn't time to run a play to generate an open look, is asked to go out and create. He is also the guy to whom Self delegates the tactical decision about shooting ASAP. There just are times when a team needs a quick three, either to get back in a game, or because the other team has figured out how to stop the patterned offense and its better to fire quick rather than bog down in half court offense. Sherron does a lot of this sort of shooting and, on his off nights, these misses are what set off his critics. But Self clearly wants him doing it. And it is more high risk shooting. And so his points per shot are not as high as the other players who shoot mostly high percentage looks. The proper question to ask about Sherron is: are there any other players who could take these kinds of shots (long threes, drives in the paint) that Self wants taken and achieve a higher points per shot statistic? It looks like Coach Self gave it some thought and decided there are not.

Todd Conner 11 years, 2 months ago

Time to get the sh together. That was a complete, utter disaster today. REPRESENT. You represent the University of Kansas for god sakes, GET YOUR SHT TOGETHER!!! Nothing more needs to be said.

Alex Hunt 11 years, 2 months ago

I can't believe how many naysayers flood the comment board after losses. This was a bad loss to be sure, but Baylor is a much more talented team than their 5-11 Big 12 record shows. They were picked T-3rd with us in the preseason and were something like 19-3 at one point during the year before collapsing in league play.

And the seeding stuff? No way we drop from a potential 2 (or even 1 seed, if you believe Joe Lunardi and a few other analysts) to a 5 or a 6 seed. At worst, we'll be a 4 seed and I still think we have a decent shot at a 2 seed, depending on what happens during the rest of championship week. No KC this year, but I happen to remember being a 3 seed in St. Louis and losing to Bucknell, so location really doesn't mean squat.

And while I feel the same frustration as so many of you do with regards to Collins "shooting us out of ball games," I happen to remember him nailing 3 straight triples against OU to lock up that win and leading us in scoring something like 80% of our games this year. He has probably cost us a couple of games (UMass, @Mizzou, perhaps Tech (although no one wins when Tech shoots 56% from three and makes 15 of them) and tonight), but no way we win 25 games and the Big 12 regular season crown without him.

Like it or not, we live and die with Sherron. He plays well or at least OK, we have a great shot at winning. He plays poorly and we lose half the time. The bigger concern for me is our inability to get Cole shots, especially against a zone defense and our lack of defense against the trey. I can't remember how many times Roys Boys lost tourney games because the other, underdog team got hot from deep and we couldn't hit an outside shot to save our lives. I worry that could happen again this year unless we learn to attack the zone better.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I rarely post here but after reading so many posts about how bad we now are and how we're going down the toilet in terms of seeding, I had to say something. Rock Chalk for life.

Theutus 11 years, 2 months ago

Jaybate, honestly your not clever man. Stop trying to sound poetic and intelligent, you just come off sounding like a tool who has too much time on your hands.

And shorten up your posts, I usually get about a sentence in before I realize that what you're typing is crap and skip the next 3 posts.

"and so made Theutus sound like he had temporarily restored his keyboard to daylight."

What? You're trying too hard. If you don't agree that Collins is tryinig to do too much, by all means show some stats to back it up. We already showed you numbers that basically say he should shoot less, and pass more.

Robert Murphy 11 years, 2 months ago

Theutus: If the post is too long for your attention span just skip it.

Max Ledom 11 years, 2 months ago

I enjoy Jaybates articles. He should seriously consider a career in this. But for Theutus calm down sir.

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