Monday, January 19, 2009

KU looking into incident between Self, recruit

KU men's head coach Bill Self addresses a packed Allen Fieldhouse on Friday, Oct. 17, 2008 during Late Night in the Phog.

KU men's head coach Bill Self addresses a packed Allen Fieldhouse on Friday, Oct. 17, 2008 during Late Night in the Phog.


The Springfield (Mo.) News-Leader alleged Monday that Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self might have had inappropriate contact over the weekend with John Wall, a 6-foot-4 point guard currently rated as the nation’s top high school recruit.

According to a column that ran in Monday’s edition of the paper, Self approached Wall, who was playing in a tournament in Springfield, after a game and said, “Johnny, great win man. You really played well.”

After Wall thanked him, Self added, “I'm not supposed to be talking to you, and you know that, but I just wanted to tell you that was a great win.”

NCAA rules prohibit coaches from speaking with recruits — other than to exchange greetings — during the NCAA’s evaluation period, which is currently in effect.

KU associate athletics director Jim Marchiony said Monday evening that he was aware of the incident and that the university is currently looking into the details of the matter.

“Bill has already told us about it, and we are discussing it internally,” Marchiony said.

Wall, a senior at Word of God Christian Academy in Raleigh, N.C., is currently the No. 1 recruit in the Class of 2009 according to, and lists Kansas among the final schools he is considering.


Carter Patterson 11 years, 6 months ago

Okay.... Mizzou boards will go crazy over this non-incident.On another note, whatever to USC for Reggie Bush's infractions?

not_important 11 years, 6 months ago

Don't forget the Mayo - OJ Mayo that is.KC Star comments so far have been mostly dismissive of this event even from MU fans which is refreshing.

rgreene 11 years, 6 months ago

Are you kidding me? I was out here in Vegas watching the adidas Super 64 last summer, and you can't even believe how many coaches will give a 'Hey, good game' line in passing to a kid, just to make sure the kid knows he was there watching. This is a non-issue, and Self will probably get reprimanded by the conference for it. Nothing big.However, probably would have been better if he just said 'Hey, great win' instead of delivering that 'I'm not supposed to be talking to you ...' line.

beebe1 11 years, 6 months ago

Hope that doesn't cost us a recruit!

cjmcjm 11 years, 6 months ago

(Ryan Greene) says...Are you kidding me? I was out here in Vegas watching the adidas Super 64 last summer, and you can't even believe how many coaches will give a 'Hey, good game' line in passing to a kid, just to make sure the kid knows he was there watching. This is a non-issue, and Self will probably get reprimanded by the conference for it. Nothing big.I'm pretty sure they can talk to recruits when it isn't the "dead period" because the dead period lasts from late Novemner to Febuary, and coaches can only e-mail recruits.

YaBoyJrod 11 years, 6 months ago

We need Wall bad....he will be best player in college next year

rgreene 11 years, 6 months ago

That's the thing, cjmcjm, July was a no-contact period, and a slew of coaches were giving similar greetings to Wall and many, MANY others.

Mike Blur 11 years, 6 months ago

String him up! With four losses already this season, Bill Self has proven to us he can't coach! Oh, he can recruit supposedly, but when was the last time Bill Self coached and won a meaningful, big time college basketball game? What would Johan Ross say about this?

eastTXjayhawk 11 years, 6 months ago

not to worry, i heard coach self's comment was negated by the same comment from another face in the crowd, the one and only Teen Wolf.

mojayhawk 11 years, 6 months ago

The Springfield News Leader columnist is Allen Vaughan. Here is the website: Don't know for sure, but suspect this writer is just another Tiger, upset that mizzzzzuuuu did not even make JW's list. Next time Coach, remember what state you're in. These Tigers are known to blow a little smoke. LOL!

Michael Auchard 11 years, 6 months ago

Amusing to see sports writers reacting to this nonsense just like the fans. WTF, indeed. He'll only be penalized because he informed his own university of it. Classy Bill, as usual. Now back to the A&M game...

Ryan Sullivan 11 years, 6 months ago

Surely Mike Blur is screwing with us. The thing about the written word is that sarcasm doesn't always come across clearly. Either that or he's an MU fan.

sdoyel 11 years, 6 months ago

I already had a KSU buddy text me about it. The Manhattan-ites are already all over it.

treidy 11 years, 6 months ago

Some Busch League journalist from Springfield is not a very reliable source. It is safe to say that there is no story here.

Brandon Winkler 11 years, 6 months ago

mike hope your kidding.WHOOOOOO CARES...

osagefire209 11 years, 6 months ago

Mike Blur who in the hell do you think you are? Do you know anything about Kansas basketball we are the defending national champions. So one little converstation with a recruit tells you that Bill Self can't coach. What the hell are you doing on the website if you don't know anything about Bill Self. If Bill couldn't coach how would we only have four losses with this young of team. I am sure any other coach in the nation would have a lot worse schedule if he had the same players Coach Self has. We lost to Syracuse in overtime by 8 and we lost to UMASS by 1 and the other two losses where not consider bad losses one was Arizona and the other Michigan St all four was on the road. These players are young and if they where a little more experienced we would have one all four. So don't give me this crap the Bill Self can't coach. So you must be thinking that Frank Martin can coach? Your a complete joke man.

rtjayhawk 11 years, 6 months ago

what was this story about? l fell asleep while reading....C'mon. This is just BS.

Mike Blur 11 years, 6 months ago

Mich has sussed me out. I've been on board with the Hawks since game tickets cost 50 cents!

Mike Blur 11 years, 6 months ago

Here's 3 images from my KUBB fan past, in case you all wonder about me: the 1988 championship season) famous game against Indiana where Jacque hit the 3 pointer at the buzzer!) Collison--24 points 23 rebs--where were you?)I bleed crimson and blue and am not "anonymous" about it.

Lance Hobson 11 years, 6 months ago

This is almost as dumb as the NCAA's insistence on calling the players "Student-Athletes."

JBurtin 11 years, 6 months ago

The comments about mike_blur are funnier than the article. I thought it was pretty obvious he was being sarcastic. Who doesn't like Bill Self after he just delivered us a championship?I think people need to turn up their sarcasm detectors.

vmwskywalk 11 years, 6 months ago

Way to pull out the historical evidence Mike!

Tony Bandle 11 years, 6 months ago

Sorry to ring the alarm bell on this but this isn't Florida Gulf Coast talking to some recruit, This is Bill Self, the defending National Champion coach "violating" the rules. Our team isn't the only ones with targets on their backs...the coach, the staff, even we fans are fair game.The rule is total BS, but so are other rules in this country. My hope is that the sheer absurdity of this incident buries this event. In fact, you could almost make a case of First Amendment Rights violations in this issue. Heck, even these counter arguments sound absurd!!!The true problem is that due to family issues, former AAU coach affliliations, proximty, etc. KU is fignting an uphill battle in this recruiting war and any little incident, no matter how ridiculous, works against us. I for one, unfortunately, do not believe that John Wall will come to KU. Dear God, I hope I'm wrong.

Don Everett 11 years, 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

eastTXjayhawk 11 years, 6 months ago

that's it...i am now searching frantically for the torn ticket stub to the 1985 premier of Teen Wolf....

Blake Post 11 years, 6 months ago

Osage was off. Of course Blur was being facetious, obvsiouly. Although on the other hand it is often obvious that tiger lilies do indeed frequent these comments at times, but a completely ludicrous statement is meant to say get off his back. It would be like saying hang Paul Pierce for takig so long to win a title. nuff said. The very definition given for contact absolves Bill Self. This is obviously a greeting. Self's country statement was the same as if he said: I can't say anymore than this under the rules, but 'good game'". If other coaches say "great win or great job:, then this is just a greeting. That is all.there is and the tiger lilies will just be a bunch of Paige boys like we know they are. How utterly dumb. This is almost as dumb as the media who question whether the Hawks will even reach the tournament, and the naysayers on these very boards who heavily criticize our players. I'll say it again. The coaches will handle it. Sit back and enjoy. A young team has the greatest rate of improvement and this team will be no different. Anyone see some sparks from Mario tonight. I saw some pro moves and shots. How about marcus hitting the three with confidece. I saw dufi criticizing them only last week. I see some quick jumps around the bucket from the twins. Go back and try to watch films with James Worthy. See some of Warrick of syracuse in the championship over us. Quick jumpers around the basket. They scare me. The twins will scare others. Quick jump. Archie Marshall had it and was beating Duke in 86 before his dreadful injury. Ref's sucked in that game. KU was the best in the land.But just watch those twins develop with that potential. naysayers are tiger lilies. Watch those corndogs. They are beating some I didnt think they would. Go Hawks. It's great to be champions...just walking around signalling number one... or smiling at work at the thought of it, and everyone wonders what you are up to.

Dale Kroening 11 years, 6 months ago

Rediculous. You can say Hey John how ya doing, but you cant say Hey John, good game. Give me a freaking break.

Dale Kroening 11 years, 6 months ago

NCAA rules prohibit coaches from speaking with recruits — other than to exchange greetings — during the NCAA’s evaluation period, which is currently in effect.If HCBS didnt get a chance to greet Wall when he arrived at the gym, but greets him after the game with good game or you played well wtf is the difference.

Dirk Medema 11 years, 6 months ago

mojayhawk (anonymous) says To mike_blur:Are you kiddin' me?Yes.To mike_blurNice (sarcastic) post. A few of us understood. Thanks for poignantly illustrating the idiocy of the journo's.Ryan - Thanks for the contextural relavance. It is obviously a greeting that isn't terribly different than any two friends passing on the street when one is busy.Obviously a case of you can't take every incinuation as true, tho the wannabes to the east and west are likely to run with the illusion for a decade of 2.

Dale Kroening 11 years, 6 months ago

Asked in the post game press conference about the Wall incident, Self said he went to the locker room to congratulate all the coaches like he always does and was approached,shook a hand and said I cant talk to you but you played really really well.

jayhawkintx73 11 years, 6 months ago

Mike, Bill Self Coached the National Championship Game last April and WON IT! He also coached against North Carolina and Roy Williams, and won it. He also is Kansas's all time highest winning percentage coach, and only 2nd to Roy Williams among active coaches. Bill Self is one of only 4 coaches in history to take 4 different teams to the Elite 8. Bill Self took Kansas to the Elite 8 twice, the second time with his own recruits and resulted in the National Championship which Roy Williams never accomplished while at Kansas. You have to be pretty stupid to ask such a question without knowing what you are talking about. National Championship, Final Four Victory against North Carolina, Elite 8 win over Davidson, of course, 100% at getting to the NCAA Tourney with Kansas. No other coach has done that at Kansas. Not even Roy Williams.

sdoyel 11 years, 6 months ago

Am I commiting an NCAA infraction by posting a reply to this article?

actorman 11 years, 6 months ago

Sometimes I seriously wonder if some of these posters are smart enough to actually have been (or currently be) KU students. Anyone who didn't realize immediately that Mike Blur was kidding has some serious intellectual deficiencies.

Trey Hohman 11 years, 6 months ago

Yes sir, it is wintertime. Cold beer and grandma’s apple pie and the strange and toxic smell of a well oiled-bias newspaper...."Got 'cha" reporting all the rage today. The Springfield News-Leader, trendsetter. The Springfield New-Leader, important news-ender. The Springfield News-Leader, detracting people away from Misery's slumping athletic program, (pro sports included).BTW. I cannot believe Mike_Blur still has a KU b-ball ticket from 1988. I can't remember where I parked my car most days....

Dr. Robert s. Mosser 11 years, 6 months ago

Glad to see that Reggie Bush has not been forgotten. Apparently the salary cap in the NCAA is about $265,000 as that is what his family was given for him to sign with the agent who supplied the money. At the same time Matt Leinart was paying $200/mo for an appartment renting for $1500. Try rentling an apartment around USC for $200.As usual USC and UCLA get to play by diffenent rules and never seem to get any type of suspension or punishment. You note they win at home with Pac10 officials but have a lot of trouble on the road.Also 59 cent ticket man, I've watched KU basketball when all I had to pay was show my Lawrence Jr. High Library Card(1939). Where were you if you were at all?

rockitychalkity 11 years, 6 months ago

i live in Springfield, Mo and i was at the game. Self gave Wall a pound on his way to the court and then he ended up leaving before the game was over. so i'm not really sure how he could have talked to him after the game. The papers here have absolutely nothing else to talk about because it is the most boring town in the world, so they probably just fabricated the story to get people to read and get national publicity.

yates33333 11 years, 6 months ago

Any organization that has a rule making it a violation for a coach to tell a young kid he had a good game is an organization that sucks. What else is new about the NCAA? You can blame journalists, MU, KSU, or any other fans but the real nut case is the NCAA. To repeat, It sucks.

Dyrk Dugan 11 years, 6 months ago

it's a non incident really, but the problem is, that KU is on probation for another 9 months.our compliance office is going to turn this over to the the NCAA....they almost have to. i agree with most everything posted here...that it's a silly rule, what exactly is a "greeting" and all of that...but we're on probation, and this is a border line no-no and so we have to turn it over. if the NCAA then deems it no big deal, then fine. but KU has to report it. Self will learn from this....just bite your tongue. Of course, Self is so darn people oriented...i'm sure it would be hard for him.

BigGuyDon 11 years, 6 months ago

Sounds like it's pretty clearly just a greeting. He told the kid he couldn't talk so Wall wouldn't start a conversation or feel slighted that Self didn't stay. They turned it in in good faith to show how closely we're following the rules. If the NCAA tries to make a federal case about this, we should march on their offices in Indianapolis.On the other hand, KU gets some free press for looking like nice guys for taking some heat for trying to tell a kid "good game'. And Wall is clear on just how badly Self wants him at KU. Mission accomplished.

TreHawks 11 years, 6 months ago

<p> has picked up the story. Coach Self's account differs greatly from what is being reported. His version is more believable.

speedy 11 years, 6 months ago

since KU is not in the top 25 you cannot find out much of anything in the vegas papers. they get listed with bethel,juiata. and slippery rock and baker. KU has often been punished harshly by NCAA for any violation. do not be supprised if ESPN stirs up enough dirt{dirty} crud to smell up the place. they,ESPN, have many ex. coaches etc. who are analysis experts. many of them were fired by the last univ. for CHEATING! old fired coaches assoc.

kdurham07 11 years, 6 months ago

Gimme a break. Is it any different than a Memphis booster calling Gaddy a few months ago? The only reason it might be a problem, already on probation till October.

Bozrah 11 years, 6 months ago

sounds like tubby smith to me. Real Dumb or Real Arrogant.Dirty program.

mdfraz 11 years, 6 months ago

It's one thing for someone (say, for instance, osage) to not pick up on sarcasm on a message board. That's bad enough, b/c it was pretty obvious Blur was being very sarcastic. What's worse than that is that after that had been pointed out and discussed by several other posts, jayhawkintx went off on Blur as well. I think that's funny.

Tom Gillaspie 11 years, 6 months ago

I for one don't understand why Coach Self would take any chance like this while in Missouri. Naturally the little creep who reported the story is looking for attention, never mind the fact he has probably seen many other situations like this before. We have no idea what Wall's take on this will be, other than the fact it looks bad. And I agree with previous posters that we are a target for several reasons. Hopefully this will result in a slap on the wrist and Coach Self will use some of the better judgment I think he has in the future. And a preemptive reply to the Missoooey fans. Get a life, and look at your own house before casting dispersions on others.

APB 11 years, 6 months ago

You dont understand how Self could take a chance like that. One word, DESPERATION. Desperate men do desperate things. He has lost out on Snaer, Henry, Cheek and will lose out on Stephenson and Wall. I dont know where Wall and Stephenson will end up but it wont be Kansas. Besides, its not like recruiting infractions are uncharted water for Kansas. In fact, the NCAA investigators probably have the KU phone number on speed dial.

ChicagoJHawk 11 years, 6 months ago

I understand the need for the NCAA to have a set of rules for when it comes to recruiting players. It's important to make sure that the coach(es)/Alumni of the university can't buy cars/houses/give cash/jobs to players or their families but they go a little too far when it's a violation to say to a kid, "Hi, you had a great game."There are a lot of examples of this. I can't remember all the details but I read an article on a while back about some bball camp that Danny Manning ran for 8th graders. I guess they served refreshments but couldn't serve food, because that's considered to be enticing players to come to our school (which obviously we, and all other schools, are trying to do otherwise they wouldn't come to the camp in the first place!).Some of these rules are just plain ridiculous and need to be reevaluated/dismissed.

mdfraz 11 years, 6 months ago

APB, we are so desperate we won the national title last year. Plus, this year was one of the top recruiting classes in the nation, and next year is shaping up to be pretty good too. Yep, desperation.Are you a KSUck fan or Mizzzou???

rockchalkin54 11 years, 6 months ago

I just got done reading the comments on the story. Wow there are some stupid people on there. The one about last years' team being Roy's recruits from RoyWilliamsFan is the absolute best.

Dale Kroening 11 years, 6 months ago

KU haters coming out of the woodwork. Going to be funny when the NCAA says its a non-issue.

APB 11 years, 6 months ago

JHWKFAN162515....The answer to your question is very obvious. The KU basketball program is known for breaking the rules (probation right now ) and never learning their lesson. KU has a dirty BB program and is known as one of the top violators of NCAA rules. Not my opinion, just facts. Being a KU fan, Im sure you know of their past run-ins with the NCAA. When a program is obviously dirty like KU, the NCAA will keep their eyes on you. I just dont think KU gets it. This current news about Self might be nothing, but it doesn`t take away the fact that KU is known for having a dirty BB program. It has been well documented.

mdfraz 11 years, 6 months ago

APB, the most compelling thing for you to do after that rant is provide the documentation of the violations. Perhaps your argument will hold water if/when you do. If not, keep talking. We are all listening intently.

RyanHawk 11 years, 6 months ago

APB,Enlighten us on all of the dirty things the KU program has done in its well documented past??My guess is that your a jealous fan of a local program that probably knows more about cow tipping or going on dates with there cousins then any sort of basketball history!

Dale Kroening 11 years, 6 months ago

You a Memphis fan APB? And what the hell are you smoking? A dirty program? If thats true you would have to say the same for UNC, Memphis, UCLA, etc....Get your facts straight and lay them out if KU is so dirty you IDIOT!

Dale Kroening 11 years, 6 months ago

All those programs have had minor infractions the last 5-10 yrs.

TreHawks 11 years, 6 months ago

APB...doesn't that stand for All Points Bulletin?I am putting out an APB on your facts...please let us know what you find.

APB 11 years, 6 months ago

Youre right, a lot of programs have had minor infractions over the last 5-10 years. But look at what KU has done since the inception of the NCAA. Look at what your 5 previous coaches have done. KU is also tied for first for the most major infractions by a Div. 1 bb program. Most true fans would know the history of their program....unless theyre in denial. Anyway, if this is news to anyone and you dont believe me, do your own research, if youre intelligent enough that is.

RyanHawk 11 years, 6 months ago

APB,Here is a link to the list of the top 29 schools with major infractions since 1953. This article is from March of 2008. KU has 6 infractions tied with K-State, Memphis, UCLA, Kentucky and others!

APB 11 years, 6 months ago

RyanHawk,I do appreciate the info, but if you would read my comments completely, you would see that Im talking about your BB program. BB stands for basketball. Is there anyone with you that can help you to understand what youre reading??

Mark Walters 11 years, 6 months ago

A lot of Misery, oops sorry, Missouri fans with nothing better to do. Here is how a KU fan responded on when he brought up the current probation for KU. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Is it true that to be eligible for a scholarship at Mizzou the player has to have at least one felony? The rap sheet for that program since Norm Stewart left has to be at least twenty pages. I don't know why Mizzou fans are interested in this story anyway. The kid is a five star recruit. That means he is about three stars too high to even consider attending Missouri. Hold off on your anger until Coach Self starts trying to steal your JUCO transfers away.Rock Chalk

ObiWan 11 years, 6 months ago

If greetings are considered acceptable, it doesn't sound like Coach Self crossed the line. Saying "good game" to someone in sports is no different than any other basic cordiality. Players, coaches and referees say it to each other after each contest, so why can't a spectator tell a player in passing that he enjoyed the game?

hawk_clock 11 years, 6 months ago

This sounds like two different stories in my opinion. KUSports has the incident going like this...“Johnny, great win man. You really played well.” After Wall thanked him, Self added, “I'm not supposed to be talking to you, and you know that, but I just wanted to tell you that was a great win.”According to it happened SLIGHTLY different. ESPN states... After the game was over, like I always do, like every coach always does, I had to catch a plane. So I went back to tell the coaches, 'Congratulations, good win.' I was approached and shook a hand and said, 'I can't talk to you, but you played really well.'" To me there is nothing at all wrong with the second option, it was the best way to handle the situation that coach was put in. I didn't read all 73 posts so sorry if this has been covered already.

RyanHawk 11 years, 6 months ago

APB,I'm aware that you’re talking about basketball, IDIOT. I'm glad your not man enough to say what school you support because you would get torn apart on this board. The NCAA files claims against a University and there programs. If you go to the NCAA infractions site you can look up all major infractions for a University. KU has more infractions in Basketball similar to UCLA, INDIANA, KENTUCKY because we are Basketball schools. Where as USC and OKLAHOMA have more infractions in Football because there are Football schools. K-ST football had 3 major infractions in the 90's when they were good and Missouri had there last Major infraction in 2004 and still weren't even good at anything.

APB 11 years, 6 months ago

RyanHawk, Kansas Jayhawk Basketball.....a tradition of CHEATING unlike any other. Way to keep the tradition going Self. Make the previous head coaches proud. I appreciate the info on Memphis too. I didnt realize they were almost as bad as Kansas. I consider those two programs to be two peas in a pod. You might want to try calming down just a touch too. I realize the truth hurts, but its outta your hands. Have a blessed day!

mdfraz 11 years, 6 months ago

Uh, APB, you have YET to provide any facts or evidence to back up your assertions. Are you 12 years old? Do you get excited spouting off and not backing up your claims? Many other people here have provided FACTS and STATISTICS to make their point. You, well, you just run your mouth. Unless/until you do provide SOME evidence, I for one will no longer be wasting my life away reading what you have to say. If you would like to get into a debate with real facts, then by all means, please do. If not, you are irrelevant on this thread, and probably in life in general.

TreHawks 11 years, 6 months ago

mdfraz,APB cannot back up his claims because he does NOT have the facts to support them. Then, thinking he is smarter than everyone else, he foolishly attempts to shift the focus away from him and back to us when he writes, " your own research, if you`re intelligent enough that is..."Bottom line, he cannot back up his statements. If he could, he would because I am certain he would love nothing more than to prove us wrong, an "in your face" moment, if you will. But, he can't, so he won't.

mdfraz 11 years, 6 months ago

That's my take on things Tre. The best way to undermine your argument is to refuse to provide evidence to support it. Any moron (like APB) can claim that the sky is white, but unless you back it up, you are just a moron.

mdfraz 11 years, 6 months ago

Putting out an APB here.........are you there? Hello? Find any facts to back up your claim that we are the dirtiest program in the universe? Didn't think so.

tominkc 11 years, 6 months ago

I didn't read all of the comments, so sorry if someone else said this already. I am a die hard KU fan, and I think this should be a non-story. The rule is ridiculous. But at the same time, I think Self ought to know better. The rule says that coaches should avoid contact during certain periods. The rule also says that coaches should avoid situations where contact is likely to occur. A greeting is allowed, but the rule is fairly clear that a greeting should only occur if there's accidental contact.I don't know whether Self went back specifically to "bump into" Wall, but he had to have known it was a possibility. And he should also know that he has a HUGE bulls-eye on his back, being the coach at KU, winning a national championship, and being in the middle of Missouri. So why even chance it? If all he really wanted was to let Wall know he was there, talk to one of his coaches. It would've been passed on.

APB 11 years, 6 months ago

Do I have to do everything for you idiots. Something tells me some of you arent / werent very good students. This is not brain surgery. Act like youre doing a research paper if that will help you. Im going to give you a few facts and hopefully a little research on your behalf and youll be headed down the right path. Kansas is tied with Minnesota and Cincinnati for most major infractions by a Div. 1 basketball program. Im going to list the 5 times KU has committed these infractions ( bonus year added ) with a few years having multiple sports involved. KU basketball was involved EVERYTIME. I will also list the length of probation as well. I will not list the TV or postseason bans you something to shoot for. 1. Jan. 1957....1 yr. probation2. Oct. 1960.....2 yrs. probation3. Aug. 1972....1 yr. probation4. Nov. 1988....3 yrs. probation5. Oct. 2006....3 yrs. probation6. Jan. 2009....?????????????

austinlambing 11 years, 6 months ago

I know that he was not spose to say anything but tell a kid that he had a good game sohould not be illegal i can see if he was trying to recruite him right there and talking about Ku but telling a kid nice game i think he should not get in trouble.

TreHawks 11 years, 6 months ago

APB - As for "...doing everything..." for us...the burden of proof is on you. You made an assertion so it is up to you to prove it. Period.Yet have proved nothing.Now who is the idiot?.........Idiot

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