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Thursday, February 5, 2009

KU tries new tactics in getting scalpers to stop selling basketball tickets

Selling tickets — any tickets — on state property is illegal

By George Diepenbrock

Fans mill about before the game. Selling your tickets on campus property is prohibited, and KU has been cracking down on the practice, even assigning plain-clothes officers to monitor ticket transactions.

Photo by Mike Yoder

Fans mill about before the game. Selling your tickets on campus property is prohibited, and KU has been cracking down on the practice, even assigning plain-clothes officers to monitor ticket transactions.

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Reader poll

Have you ever scalped a ticket to an event?

  • Yes. 43% 334 votes
  • No. 56% 436 votes

770 total votes.

Robert Miller had an extra ticket.

Saturday afternoon outside Allen Fieldhouse, the Kansas City, Mo., resident hurried around trying to unload the $55 ticket before the Kansas University-Colorado basketball game.

But his plan hit a snag. As Miller was trying to get the attention of other fans outside the entrance to the Booth Family Hall of Athletics, KU Public Safety officers approached him.

They gave him a warning about soliciting the sale of tickets on KU property, which is prohibited.

“You should be able to sell your own ticket,” Miller said.

KU Public Safety officers have embarked on a campaign for four years during football and basketball game days to crack down on selling tickets on state property.

They’ve also taken the operation a step further this basketball season. Before Saturday’s home game against Oklahoma State, people trying to scalp a ticket or fans trying to get rid of an extra one might want to be careful about whom they approach.

It might be a police officer in plain clothing.

In recent weeks outside KU basketball games, officers have given three citations for criminal trespassing to people suspected of scalping tickets.

Capt. Schuyler Bailey said officers tend to be busier during the more high-profile basketball games, especially since Big 12 play started in January. Officers concentrate on educating people first — whether they are frequent scalpers or seem to be fans trying to get rid of one ticket.

“We make contact with people. We notify them of university policy and tell them if you are seen again doing this, you could be subject to an arrest,” Bailey said.

Before the Kansas State University game Jan. 13, a man — whom police said they warned previously — was issued a notice to appear in Lawrence Municipal Court after he solicited game tickets to an undercover officer.

Also, the next week before the Texas A&M game Jan. 19, officers in plain clothes issued criminal trespassing citations to two men for soliciting the officers for tickets.

One of the men was from Oklahoma and had no ties to Lawrence so he had to post a cash bond, Bailey said.

City Prosecutor Jerry Little said a conviction in these trespassing cases can carry a maximum fine of $1,000 and up to six months in jail. The judge decides the penalty.

The three citations in the last month are probably a little bit higher than what officers normally issue, Bailey said.

“We’re not going to keep warning the same people,” he said.

KU officials began asking public safety officers to crack down on scalpers outside sporting events in 2005.

KU associate athletic director Jim Marchiony said the athletics department had received complaints before about scalpers approaching fans.

“We’ve gotten fewer complaints from our patrons certainly the last couple of years,” he said.

Officers wait to observe a transaction before they approach someone on the street, Bailey said.

They encounter both frequent ticket scalpers, who are trying to make a buck on ticket transactions, or fans just trying to unload a single ticket.

“It doesn’t matter. You cannot sell anything on university property,” Bailey said.

Officers also hear from people who don’t understand why they can’t just sell a ticket one time, he said. That’s why officers try to make it an educational effort that includes a warning.

Miller, who said he was trying to get rid of one general admission ticket last weekend, said his encounter with law enforcement surprised him.

“I’m not going to buy any season tickets because of the harassment you go through,” he said.

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Comments

JayhawkPhil (anonymous) says...

I don't like the agressive ticket scalpers either but you can bet the crackdown isn't because of customer complaints. The Athletic Department gestapo strikes again.

February 5, 2009 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

JGfromPK (anonymous) says...

If this was a reasonable world and a reasonable Athletic Department, as long as the people were selling at or below face value, then they aren't cashing in, they're just getting their money back... no more than the KUAD has already gotten for the ticket in the first place. This, to me, seems like a more reasonable regulation. Fine those that are selling their tickets for higher than face value. That would keep out the big-money scalpers, and still let the regular old fan who had a buddy that couldn't make it still unload a ticket he can't use.

February 5, 2009 at 5:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

RockChalkJayBlog (anonymous) says...

Craigslist, you fools.

February 5, 2009 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

oldalum (anonymous) says...

It's too bad there isn't some way tickets can be turned in so that they can be resold at the ticket window. The way it is now results in empty seats in the field house when there are lots of people who wanted to go but were unable to get tickets. Too many changes of plans at the last minute, I suppose, for anything like that to ever work.

February 5, 2009 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Speakeasy (anonymous) says...

Scalping in front of Allen has been going on for decades. I used to have good luck in the late eighties and early nineties by waiting to purchase until tipoff, when the price dropped precipitously.

February 5, 2009 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

amatxjayhawk (anonymous) says...

If the KUAD got their price in the first place, why the hell do they care what someone else dose with the ticket. I guess I'm a libertarian. If I bought and paid for the ticket, what I do with it or what I get for it should be nobody's business but mine and the buyer. Why don't they find something important to worry about.

February 5, 2009 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kustrong (anonymous) says...

sometimes this is the only way to get a ticket. the scalpers walk by at a fast pace and say "tickets." how is this offensive? it is capitalism at its purist form. it is not like they are coming up and asking for a hand out or trying to get you to sign a petition. ku is out of control when it comes to athletics. they are really getting greedy. still love though.

February 5, 2009 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

hometownhawk (anonymous) says...

I wish they would do something like a sell-back where any ticket could be sold back to the KUAD up to like 2 hours or so before the game either in person or via phone, and then re-sold from the ticket office for face value. That way: A. Maybe there would be fewer empty corporate seats in prime locations, B. More people who wanted to could get into the game, C. Scalping would be discouraged, D. Those who have extras can get rid of them without being hassled. Just a thought, seems logical to me.

February 5, 2009 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

hometownhawk (anonymous) says...

... and assuming the sell-back price was a bit less than face value, the KUAD would make some money off of it (which is what makes it a somewhat feasible idea, I think)

February 5, 2009 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

ohioburg (anonymous) says...

Just designate an area off to the side where scalping is legal. Buyers and sellers can meet up away from those who don't want to hear it (geez, is it really that bad? it goes on everywhere else no problem). Also agree with JGfromPK - can't sell them above face value.

February 5, 2009 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

clarkentsman (anonymous) says...

Gee - do you think that maybe because of the new FAIR seating policy that ticket sales have droped and they have extra tickets for most games. They want to sell their tickets opposed to a regular ticket holder (or scalper) selling a ticket that screws Lew out of fifty dollars.

February 5, 2009 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

ohioburg (anonymous) says...

Other than saying "you can't do that", how are the officers "educating" anyone?

February 5, 2009 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

hawktx (anonymous) says...

Just about tired of it. After so many years, I need to think about next year. There are times my spouse can't go, so I eat the ticket or sell it. So selling it outside AFH to a person who really wants to go inside, and in fact will sit next to me, is illegal? Screw Lew.

February 5, 2009 at 8:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

NavyHawk (anonymous) says...

At Camden Yard in Baltimore, there's a street nearby which the city has designated a safe haven for reselling tickets. The kicker is that tickets must be sold at or below face value. The upside is, cops can easily enforce that area for legal sales while aggressively citing anyone selling tickets anywhere else. This could be easily done at a place near Allen Fieldhouse, or, during football season near Memorial Stadium. All it requires is signage placed around the designated area citing the campus ordinance allowing resale of tickets only in that area and for no more than face value. The area could be away from any entrances or main avenues of approach, so that no one would have to feel put upon by "scalpers."Another area the university might pursue is a resale website hosted by the school, like most MLB teams have. You post your tickets for sale at whatever price you think you can get, the team (in this case KUAD) gets a percentage of the sale while controlling the resale either through print-at-home tickets or "Will Call." Often times parking arrangements can be made at the same time if the season ticket holder has season parking passes.I think either idea would be a "win-win" for the school and for those who wish to make it to individual games but can't afford or don't have time to do season passes.

February 5, 2009 at 8:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

swishymcjayhawk (anonymous) says...

i'd like to see them argue in court how they can issue a ticket for performing a legal action on public property (state-owned university = public property).

February 5, 2009 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

delo (anonymous) says...

In a free market, if a seller has something to sell and finds a buyer willing to purchase at an agreed upon price, then a transaction should be able to take place. I agree with whomever said that if KU has already sold the ticket then they should really not get involved if someone wants to resell it. Seems like there are more important things to spend public safety officers time on.Why does anyone care anyway...is it a sales tax issue?

February 5, 2009 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

trojanhawk (anonymous) says...

Screw Lew? We have an Orange Bowl win, a national title and new facilities for both sports, and he was a big part of it.Scalping is restricted or banned around most sports venues in the US. But people will always get away with it.

February 5, 2009 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

hawknhutch (anonymous) says...

This is where my tax dollars are going? To pay the salaries of undercover cops trying to catch people selling their basketball tickets?America is no longer a free country, my friends. Our government has gone from working FOR us to controlling us. Police are nothing more than an occupying force designed to intimidate and control the citizens.

February 5, 2009 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

lhohman3 (anonymous) says...

"Fair Seating Policy" at KU is about as logical as "Hot Christian Porn" or "the ambitious video-gamer"....People should be able to sell their tickets if they have actually purchased them for the intent on actually seeing the game, but I agree that trying to sell them right in front of the fieldhouse entrance is rather obnoxious.The people who should be arrested are ticket brokerages, who hire armies of data-processors that buy thousands of sporting-event tickets the first seconds they go on sale, then immediately sell them on-line for 500% above the ticket's initial market-value....Why doesn't both KU/MU athletic depts. instead work with the KS/MO State-Legislature in trying to incorporate laws against allowing these greedy vandals to operate their businesses? -- Don't know if this is a huge problem in the state of KS/MO but in every other major market where professional sports is the main attraction, these leary-eyed jackals rise up like pods from Invasion of the Body Snatchers...Not the dumbest idea I have ever read about athletic department policy, but still very narrow-minded in dealing with the actual scope of the problem...

February 5, 2009 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

truefan (anonymous) says...

I just really don't understand why it is a big deal that a fan with season tickets sold one of their extras to a fan that couldn't get a hold of one. It's not like there are opportunities to go to the ticket window on game day, the tickets are sold out by then, which means that the "scalpers" aren't taking any money from the University, because they already sold all 16300 or more tickets long before game day. I would rather have someone sitting next to me that bought a ticket from a scalper than an empty seat in AFH on game day. Having empty seats at Allen is a sin, and Lew Perkins is the sinner.

February 5, 2009 at 8:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

hawkfan20 (anonymous) says...

This just makes me glad I got rid of my hoops tickets. It's ridiculous they expect fans to effectively pay $75-500/ticket depending on how much you donate and then expect to be limited to no more than $55.

February 5, 2009 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

truefan brings up a good point: what if the law were that no tickets could be resold as long as there were still tickets available at the ticket window? That way KU would be assured of not losing out on a potential sale, and once the tickets were sold out then the athletic department shouldn't care if someone wanted to resell a ticket.The whole thing is utterly ridiculous. It's interesting that NO ONE on here is defending the athletic department. Maybe if enough people contacted the athletic department and expressed their displeasure, they might look at some of the ideas mentioned above.

February 5, 2009 at 11:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Yakihawk (anonymous) says...

Where's Jaybate's 9 page post?

February 5, 2009 at 11:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Vroo (anonymous) says...

It should be legal for private sellers to sell tickets at or below face value. I recently had two extra tickets to a game, posted them on Craigslist, and sold them below face value to someone that really wanted tickets. Why should it be a problem where the money changes hands?At the prices the tickets sell for, why should I be stuck with them when ticket brokers sell them well above face value? That's what they should crack down on.

February 6, 2009 at 3:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Solomon (anonymous) says...

Vroo, why should it be limited to "at or below face value?" As pointed out here multiple times, the ticket has been bought and paid for. If the after market value is higher why not let it go for its market price?Actually, the Texas ticket has a much greater value than the Emporia State ticket. If KU would place a "true" value on its tickets---say $20 on exhibition games and more like $100 on a hot league game---forcing sales at "face" value would make more sense.

February 6, 2009 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

IAJHawk (anonymous) says...

I think I understand what both sides are saying about this. It makes sense to me to crack down on scalping. I don't want the availability of tickets to be affected by jerks who buy ten tickets just to scalp them all for a profit, but at the same time I don't want to be stuck eating the price of a ticket because my brother couldn't make it to the game at the last minute. I like JG's suggestion, of selling them but only at or below face value. That would allow people who need to unload tickets to do so, but would prevent people from screwing us all over just to make a few bucks.

February 6, 2009 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KUbsee69 (anonymous) says...

In KANSAS, ticket "scalping" is LEGAL. This is just another greed tactic adopted by KUAD & Co.The parking lot ticket sales have been going on so long, it's almost a tradition. I've witnessed it for well over 40 years. I've never heard of anyone upset by it. Like many have said, it's sometimes the only way you can get a ticket.The changes to "my" university since the Hemminway administration took control have pretty much all been negative IMO. I, for one, am glad he's stepping down."Mister, we could use a man like W. Clark Wescoe again" ... Archie Bunker

February 6, 2009 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

NH_JHawk (anonymous) says...

It's standard practice to scalp tickets at just about any event you can possibly think of. This policy is absolutely ridiculous. Reminds me of the song "Signs""Sign, sign, everywhere a sign....do this, dont do that, cant you read the sign?"

February 6, 2009 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

ohioburg (anonymous) says...

Solomon, the "at or below face value" is to prevent someone from scooping up tickets from the ticket office then gouging those who just wanted a ticket or two to actually attend the event.

February 6, 2009 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

halogenlamps (anonymous) says...

Well, the KUAD is not saying you can't scalp a ticket. They are just saying you can't do it on University property. By all means, sell your tickets whereever you can, just not outside Allen Fieldhouse!

February 6, 2009 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Warren (anonymous) says...

You can sell your tickets to any game for any price you want to sell it for as long as it is not on KU property. This means you can sell your tickets for whatever price you want online, and in front of Naismith. This policy only pertains to KU property. Same thing goes with football games. In front of Memorial stadium you cannot sell your ticket. Walk across the street and you can sell it for whatever price you can get.

February 6, 2009 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Speakeasy (anonymous) says...

KUbsee69--I second that on Hemenway. Besides my many other problems with him, he came here from Lexington, Kentucky! Glad he's going, and hope the search committee does better on the next hire. He's been sub-par. Did Archie Bunker really say that? What was the context?

February 6, 2009 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

TxJyHwk (anonymous) says...

Speakeasy -he modifed a line from the opening song of All In the Family (from Herbert Hoover to W. Clark Wescoe)

February 6, 2009 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

mcrozb (anonymous) says...

Thank heavens for people who want to sell tickets, I just bought 2 tickets to the Big Monday game in Columbia. (I live outside of Columbia) I paid more than face value at stubhub.com, but now there will be two in BLUE a few rows behind the MU bench waiting to do the victory chant at the end of the game. PLEASE, everybody pray for my safety !!!!!Rock Chalk Jayhawk...KU !!!!!!!!

February 6, 2009 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

mdfraz (anonymous) says...

I've always been under the assumption that selling for higher than face value, i.e. scalping, is illegal in Kansas, but I'm unable to find that particular law. Anyone better at that type of legal research?I believe people are correct that as long as you are not on state property, you could negotiate whatever price you want for tickets (assuming "scalping" is indeed legal in Kansas). Obviously you would be most effective in getting offers/buyers the closer you are to the venue, so it would be a little tougher to get off state property for AFH. However, as noted above, for football games, cross Mississippi St. or go to the 800 block of Maine and you apparently won't have a problem.

February 6, 2009 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

KUbsee69 (anonymous) says...

Scalping is legal in Kansas. That's how storefront businesses, like ACE Sports & Tickets at Overland Park's Oak Park Mall can buy and sell event tickets at any price they want. (They love to buy KU BB tickets, but want bargains)On another note, last year, I asked for and received a legal interpretation of what constituted "KU Property" from the KS Attorney General's Office. The intrepretation was based, in part, on a KSAG to KU Police conversation (so I was told). KSAG said that the streets through the KU, or any other state university campus are not university property, but are public thoroughfares, and therefore are not subject to some of the universities rules & policies. The intrepretation was provided in regard to the No Weapons signs, but would also probably apply to ticket sales. So, maybe, tickets can be sold out of one's car. Anybody got a bullhorn?? :-)

February 6, 2009 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

mdfraz (anonymous) says...

KUbsee69, I thought that Ace et al got away with selling for a higher price b/c they included a player card, or game program, or some other worthless memorabilia that they could claim caused the higher price. Maybe I'm thinking of something else.......I guess that explains why I couldn't find a scalping law.

February 6, 2009 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jedarchul (anonymous) says...

If KU wants to strictly enforce anti-scalping issues on campus/state property, that's the law and I guess that's fine by me. However, the thing that just infuriates me is that they have no problem selling massive quanitities of tickets to the so-called "ticket brokers" such as stubhub, craigslist, etc that routinely mark up prices by 100-500%. Somehow this sort of "distribution" is wholly overlooked, or worse, accepted by the legal system even though it takes an idea that is illegal and perpetuates it on a massive scale with far greater mark ups than could otherwise be applied. I mean, I'm a little put off that we are forced to go through ticketmaster for most events and have to pay their "handling" fees, but at least this is a set percentage. Brokerages seem to have a system in place in which they have first dibs at tickets and can set any price that they deem fit. Just venting, but I fail to see how a greater manipulation of the consumers is regarded as perfectly fine when another form (done on a much smaller scale) is an arrestable offense. Any ticket supplier (KU athletics, I'm looking at you) is inherently responsible (as an accomlice at a minimum) for carrying out the financial raping of their consumers. They have the ability to restrict sales to these types of organizations.

February 6, 2009 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

dagger108 (anonymous) says...

During the '88 NC game intro, they talked about scalping tickets outside the arena, which was illegal in MO. One enterprising young man was arrested for selling a $500 t-shirt and he would throw in a ticket to the game for free. Even though everyone admitted it was a very nice t-shirt, they still arrested the man.Great to know that you are "safe" from the resale police if you step out into traffic to buy/sell the tickets :-)Rock Chalk

February 6, 2009 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

milwaukeeJAYHAWK (anonymous) says...

What if you put the ticket inside an envelope, and said "Envelopes for sale---50 bucks!" with a wink and a grin. Would the cops be allowed to look inside the envelope, as that would be an illegal search?Isn't there some sneaky way around this? There's got to be one lawyer on these boards that could give some funny advice....

February 7, 2009 at 6:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

drgnslayr (anonymous) says...

This is as stupid as busting over a million Americans for smoking pot. Scalping tickets benefits the team by filling the seats... some of those seats are filled only because of people scoring a ticket right before the game.It should be illegal to sell tickets above face value.So... why don't they consider accommodating people by making a little ticket stand outside the gate for people who have extra tickets? Just bring your ticket up and let these people sell the seat to someone at face value.. First come first serve on purchasing. That way the university can still ban anyone from doing business on state property since they will regulate the transaction. Put up little paper signs before the games pointing people with extra tickets to the stand.But instead they want to criminalize something that is usually innocent. So the next Obama will ruin his (or her) possible run for the presidency because they got busted selling an extra ticket at face value on state property.I tell you, if this country doesn't begin to think smarter....Think people!

February 7, 2009 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jbrownjib (anonymous) says...

If the price of the tickets is too low then the University needs to raise the price. That way those with intensions of scalping will pay dear if they can't unload the ticket.

February 8, 2009 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

dylans (anonymous) says...

I wish they'd get rid of the petitions floating around campus. Credit card apps etc.Not the scalpers that are providing a service!

February 8, 2009 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

dylans (anonymous) says...

The price of a ticket is plenty high

February 8, 2009 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

hillsborohawk (anonymous) says...

Are there any signs posted near ALLEN stating the obvious???
"No scalping, scalper!"

If not, leave it be............

February 19, 2009 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )