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Friday, December 4, 2009

Self comments on Mangino resignation

Kansas head coach Bill Self watches the action from the bench during the second half, Thursday, Nov. 19, 2009 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas head coach Bill Self watches the action from the bench during the second half, Thursday, Nov. 19, 2009 at Allen Fieldhouse.

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Here’s Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self’s take on Jayhawk football coach Mark Mangino’s resignation:

“I haven’t spoken with him yet. I’m sure I will at some point in time — soon I hope,” Self said Friday in Allen Fieldhouse. “That’s obviously a unique situation. I don’t know if there are any winners in the situation. I certainly feel bad for Mark and his staff from a personal standpoint. There’s no question about it.

“I think all coaches always feel bad when a situation like that occurs. I think that’s the natural reaction. On the flip side, I have total faith in our administration as well. I hope somehow it can be a win/win for everybody certainly. I don’t know if that’s the case or will be the case. I think only time will tell. I certainly respect the job Mark and his staff have done. There’s no question about that.”

Comments

jgoodvin 10 years, 4 months ago

Self = Best Coach in the biz. Also, he is physically the hottest coach on the planet.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 4 months ago

jgoodvin....I hope you are a girl...if not, that's OK too, I guess.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 4 months ago

I honestly feel Mangino will get a job somewhere on the Division I, College level. This situation will eventually calm down and down the road, there will be an Athletic Director that will take a chance on MM. I just hope it isn't in the Big XII Conference. Stoops, Leach and Mangino are all close buddies,

Waylon Cook 10 years, 4 months ago

I am a guy and ya Coach is sexy huh? lol

Tad Shurtz 10 years, 4 months ago

jgoodvin - I think it says a lot about you that you're able to admit your man-traction to Bill Self. Hey, it happens. Don't fight it, embrace it. Imagine him and J. Harbaugh fighting the bad guys together. Whew-doggy. They'd have to fight the coeds off w/ a stick, or possibly a weapon of some sort.

Kettlesworth 10 years, 4 months ago

The whole Mangino situation is just sad. I feel bad for the players in the Big XII--and those playing abroad.

Also, the real issue should be how much you think Bill can bench. I bet it's 250, easy. Great pectorals.

jhokfan 10 years, 4 months ago

I think Mangino will be coaching again if he wants. There's a vacancy at his alma mater. I hope he takes some time off to reflect and take care of his health. I wish him nothing but the best. Maybe in 2017 he can return to Memorial for a 10 year anniversary of the Orange Bowl.

Scott Smetana 10 years, 4 months ago

hahahahhahaah.... best thread I've read on here awhile.

chicagoeddie 10 years, 4 months ago

you know what sounds good? Self Stadium =)

Tim Bingaman 10 years, 4 months ago

I'm kind of a chubby chaser, so will definitely miss Mangenius in those custom made Addidas warmup/pajama numbers. One of a kind look for a man in athletics...

In all seriousness, the man may have crossed the line. Hopefully he can get himself back in line and help some other football players win!

Aligned 10 years, 4 months ago

He looks a little like Cro-Magnon man in the above picture, with his eyebrows puffed out there.

kranny 10 years, 4 months ago

I know this is off the subject and maybe many have commented already, but I really liked seeing the Jayhawk on the helmets last Saturday. I wish they would keep it. The huge trajan KU is a little too much for me.

KU 10 years, 4 months ago

Self is "class" personified. If you looked up "class" in the dictionary, there would be a picture of Self.

I wish Mangino the best. He did a lot for our program and made us all proud to be Jayhawk FOOTBALL fans in addition to basketball. It's cool to go to the games for the first time in my lifetime.

I, too, hope he will pay attention to his health for the sake of his wife, his kids and his grandkids.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

Self is always a first class study in how to play politics in the media.

He talked about hope for a win/win for KU and Mangino--something that can't happen, when a coach is apparently forced to resign. He talked about how bad he felt for Mangino, which makes Self seem empathetic. Yet he added paradoxically, "I have total faith in our administration as well." Self is the master of the paradoxical message so widely used in public relations and propaganda these days. A paradox readies a receiver for the message the sender wants the receiver to be left with ultimately. At the end, where many won't read down to, Self voices his respect for the job Mangino and staff have done for KU. It is a skillful piece of PR. Most don't get the final message, so in most eyes, Self's asserted respect for Mangino is simply off the radar screen. Thus, Self is not perceived as siding with Mangino at all. For those few that read to the end, Self leaves the message that he respects Mangino's job, but carefully does not assert that he respects Mangino, and just as carefully does not take Mangino's side and say the University is shafting a guy he respects. Bill Self plays every situation to his best advantage.

But why did Self say anything positive at all about Mangino?

Because Self is a coach and there is an unwritten rule in the coaching profession: never bad mouth another coach, especially when he's down. The rule exists, because all coaches believe (and with reason) any coach can be fired, or forced out, at any moment. The rule exists, because every coach needs a chance to get back to work to feed his family. Self did his duty to the coaching fraternity, even though he buried his "respect" remark at the end.

I hope the fates smile on KU and Bill Self and that he and KU are allowed one day to part on the best of terms.

But if not, then everyone needs to remember that should the KU's relationship with Coach Self ever fall on hard times, Coach Self will win the political contest in the media at that time. He's damn good at this game.

Joel Hood 10 years, 4 months ago

jaybate - agreed X 100...

Years from now, we will look back at Self as the exemplar for all KU coaches.

KU 10 years, 4 months ago

jaybate......The amazing thing about Self is I don't think it's an "act". I think this stuff just comes naturally to him. He's a natural "good guy".

TexasHawk44 10 years, 4 months ago

KU: you are right. Self is not an "act". Jaybate, on the other hand, is. And not a particularly good one.

Tad Shurtz 10 years, 4 months ago

Bill & Jim's Excellent Adventure: Coming soon to a Lawrence near you!

Kettlesworth 10 years, 4 months ago

jaybate: Why so hypercritical?

TexasHawk44: Right on the money.

honk4tad: L-Town's gonna be dry of Blue Yummies!

jgoodvin: He makes Michelangelo's David look like Jabba the Hut.

buckleyhawk 10 years, 4 months ago

When Bill Self does a pushup, he isn't pushing himself up, he's pushing the earth down.

Dan Pawlowski 10 years, 4 months ago

Uh, jhwkfan162515, Your a Phelps aren't you. Live and Let Live.

Kit Duncan 10 years, 4 months ago

jaybate, I don't know why some here think you were speaking ill of Bill Self. I took your post for what it was, an analysis of how masterful Bill Self is when speaking to the media. Interestingly, when I saw the caption for the piece, I felt drawn to read it just to see how Bill would take a neutral position (he did) while speaking positively of both Mangino (he did) and the school (ditto).

And he doesn't need a TelePrompter when speaking extemporaneously!

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 4 months ago

Jaybate is right on target. There is no win/win situation here. Mangino was never Perkin's boy.. Probably the best football coach in KU history deserved better. I don't know what happened this year. It's inexplicable. Perkins better find someone who can move this program forward.

jhokfan 10 years, 4 months ago

I find NFL coaches appealing too even though I can't think of any that have made the transition to the college ranks. Bill Walsh was a great NFL coach but I don't think he fared that well at Stanford. Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, Brian Billick, Herm Edwards, Marty Shottenheimer, who wouldn't want to play for them?

stravinsky 10 years, 4 months ago

Michael Jackson?

Oh wait, that's just the man in the mirror. My mistake...

Lets pleeaaaase not have a conversation about the morality of homosexuality? Por favor? It's ruining a good discussion about bromance with Bill.

So manly, that guy probably has like 7 balls.

Dan Pawlowski 10 years, 4 months ago

jwkfan162515, The man upstairs? You do know the bible was written by men. Using it to justify hate. Gee that has never been done before.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

Kettlesworth,

I didn't think I was being critical at all. This is how the game is played at this level. To wit:

"He's damn good at this game."--jaybate

W&L statements aside, Mangino didn't survive, because he's not as good at playing the game, as Self is.

Self is in his 40s. He could easily take off the rug, quit working out, and start eating nothing but fried foods and balloon up in weight. But Self knows that appearances are part of the game at this level. Mangino could have had the gut surgery that drastically reduces one's ability to digest food and have lost a ton of weight. But he didn't.

Self could have reacted to the fighting this summer by saying it wasn't that big of deal and that he would take care of it...the way Mangino did. Instead Self made clear he was on the road and couldn't possibly have prevented this thing he called very serious. Self deftly said that it was a big deal and that he was now back home and would see to it that the troops got disciplined. Mangino took the problem straight on and it stuck to him. Self deflected the problem, then spun it so that he could be the good guy coming in with the white hat to fix everything with a little tough love. The problem did not stick to Self.

No, no, no, I am not being hypercritical of Self at all. He is deft at this sort of thing. He almost has the PR equivalent of perfect pitch in music. He hits the right note to save himself, ingratiate himself with his bosses, and get what he wants out of an amazing number of circumstances. He's kind of a genius in this regard, actually. Lew Perkins is pretty darned good at this game, but even he doesn't have quite as good of an ear as Self.

s6u6r6f 10 years, 4 months ago

jhwkfan162515, for some strange reason that I can't seem to understand, your clear and strong opinions seem...somehow...attractive. Sickly attractive, in a most unnatural way. Please, say some more.

squawkhawk 10 years, 4 months ago

ENOUGH ALREADY! The problem with KU football is the fact that it has been so bad for so long that any coach that comes in and has a very mediocre 50-47 record, has only one winning season against Big 12 opponents, and wins a bowl game they should not have been in, is considered a martyr. What a joke. This guy is one of the top 15 paid coaches in the country and performs at a level of one that is barely average. I honestly can't believe that any KU fan would put up with this. As long as fans are willing to accept such mediocracy, KU football will always be what it has been...] "WAITING for history to be made".

okiedave 10 years, 4 months ago

Jaybate - I am not sure why you think there was no win/win situation with the Mangino termination.

I have no idea what Mangino negotiated, but my guess is about 3.8 to 4.8 million cash. The big man gets paid even though he does not have to pound the recruiting trail, show up for work, worry about winning, spending nights worrying about KSU and MU, make public appearances, etc. etc. etc., plus no litigation and if he cannot find another gig he should be financially secure for the rest of his life. He is free to do in life what really interests him, whether football or volunteer work or developing a new diet plan and writing the newest dieting book. Sounds like a win.

KU wins because Mangino is no longer head coach and is free to hire a new head coach who hopefully will build on what success Mangino has brought and bring new enthusiasm to the program and be a more presentable representative for the program and University, plus no litigation -- and the buyout is a drop in the bucket in the sports budget and Lori does not need to write her report. Sounds like a win.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

okiedave,

I see your point and it is certainly a fair one to consider.

However, it logically implies this: Mark Mangino has worked exhaustively his entire career to build to what you suggest--a settlement payment to go away in public disgrace, so that he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants.

I find this kind of hard to believe. Coaches are such driven persons and they so like to work. And leaving in public disgrace at the D1 level makes it very tough to work again. Not impossible, mind you, but very tough.

Nevertheless, if Mangino were so motivated and wily enough to pull it off, then it is most definitely a win-win for KU and Mangino.

In fact, if the scenario your logic implies were true, then I would have little doubt that Mark Mangino, the offensive master mind of prior years, engineered most everything that led to his departure. He pushed buttons of his football team to fight the basketball team, because he knew KU was a basketball school and that would help undermine him. He gave his team lousy game plans to make sure they would go on an 8 game losing streak, because he knew KU would force him out and pay him off, now that it had incurred huge football infrastructure debt requiring revenues that losing could not service. He may even have put on more weight than usual and harrassed that KU parking attendant just to seal the deal.

But again, I find this a very big stretch to believe.

More likely, Mark Mangino screwed up, or KU screwed up, or some combination of both screwed up, and Coach Mangino did not receive the emotional support and psychological help that he needed to keep the unfortunate cascade of events from transpiring since that great 12-1 season just a couple of years ago, when I found Coach Mangino to be so much more admirable in demeanor than that arse in a cap that Missouri calls a football coach.

I think Mangino did something magnificient at KU.

I believe the herculean effort he gave to pull it off exposed some psychological problems that he has borne his entire life (and this happens in so many of our lives).

I believe KU let him down, by not giving him a year, or two off, some time before these unfortunate events happened, so that he could deal with these problems in a constructive way--both for Coach Mangino and for KU.

jaybate 10 years, 4 months ago

As a general rule, I don't like football.

As a general rule, I don't like KU football.

Gale Sayers made me like KU football briefly.

Pepper, Douglas and Riggins made me like KU football briefly.

Mark Mangino made me actually take some pride in KU football and think it might have finally made a sustainable turn for the better--not so much in the W&L statement, but in the sense of a program run the right way. I guess I was wrong.

Maybe his path to success was too fraught with inappropriate behavior.

So help the guy fix himself.

Don't pay him off like some child prostitute for US Senators to go away and say nothing live in private shame.

Recognize his contribution to KU and get him help.

Whatever happened to Jayhawk Nation looking after its own?

Whatever happened to once a Jayhawk, always a Jayhawk?

Mangino is not like Glen Mason, or Pepper Rogers.

Mangino wanted to be a Jayhawk.

Mangino is not like Don Fambrough, who wanted to be a Jayhawk, too.

Mangino could coach and recruit and win Orange Bowls.

I detest abusive coaches as much as anyone.

I don't want one KU athlete verbally, or physically abused.

Mangino should have gotten help, and been given help the minute this sort of behavior surfaced, not after a program turnaround and then a losing streak.

But this dysfunctionality of administration and coaches is KU football and it always has been KU football.

In basketball, KU tends to do the right thing, despite many mistakes.

In football, KU rarely does the right thing, despite occassionally rising to memorable heights.

Back to basketball.

milwaukeeJAYHAWK 10 years, 4 months ago

I agree with Jaybate. Self knows how to dance with the media, stay uncontroversial, and to be respectful. I can't see him ever making an ass out of himself like Roy after the Syracuse game, Mike Gundy of OSU, or like Bobby Knight.

Self has good self-control.

No pun intended.

KU 10 years, 4 months ago

Why do people think Self wears a toupe? I think it's his real hair.

aerohawk 10 years, 4 months ago

jhwkfan162515,

So when you kiss Hank's a** does that make you gay and out of line with "the man up stairs?"

p.s. Why the quotes for the man upstairs? Why not just call him God, Jehovah, Ala, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Hank?

p.p.s. If you are not familiar with Hank the see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDp7pk...

Dan Pawlowski 10 years, 4 months ago

jaybate, So you say you don't like football and you don't like Kansas football. Since you don't like football then it follows that you don't like Kansas football (and you were redundant mentioning it). Then it also follows that I don't care about your opinions on Kansas football.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 4 months ago

On Mangino, it was a witch-hunt, plain and simple. I've heard the b.s. that you "don't treat young men like that." I don't know what football field any of these folks have been on. The fact is rough treatment builds character, builds team unity, and creates something in a man that helps him throughout his life. What the rough treatment does is it makes you look inside for approval, not to the rest of the world. And that is what makes you successful in life. Th

There was nothing "physically abusive" or we would have heard about it. That is a phrase that is used by the weenies in the KU ivory towers. Physically abusive is punching a player in the faces, kicking him, etc. Grabbing a facemask, poking in the chest, physically grabbing a jersey, or doing bear crawls on hot turf ... that's kids' play.

Here is some "abuse" -- sounds like a football coach that has it right:

Take an 18 year old and send him into the Army, or Marines, and then let me know about "abuse" (which it isn't).

I am sick about the departure of Mangino. He wasn't hired to make friends, or be friendly to parking attendants, or treat the players like his friends. He was hired to win. There are different ways to win. That's the guy we hired.

Perkins wanted Mangino out and it is pathetic that he (Perkins) is such a pansy (nice way to put it) that he can't just fire the guy. He trumps up something to defame the guy, to save a few bucks on a buyout.

Where was Perkins for the last 5 years? This stuff is new? It's on his watch. Where does the buck stop? If it is so bad that it justifies termination, then it justifies Perkins' termination.

Made me feel better to get that off my chest.

jhokfan 10 years, 3 months ago

I've never gotten the hair thing with Self. Always thought it was something dreamt up by the antlers. Jaybate, if you know something, spill your guts and do it without writing a dissertation? Inquiring minds want to know.

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