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Originally published December 2, 2009 at 12:00a.m., updated December 2, 2009 at 05:47p.m.

Ex-player accuses Mangino of mistreatment

KU head coach Mark Mangino looks on from the sideline as the Jayhawks take on Missouri during the Border Showdown Saturday, Nov. 28, 2009 at Arrowhead Stadium.

KU head coach Mark Mangino looks on from the sideline as the Jayhawks take on Missouri during the Border Showdown Saturday, Nov. 28, 2009 at Arrowhead Stadium.

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Former KU football player Cory Kipp damaged his hand after doing "bear crawls" as punishment after a practice in 2003.

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Submitted photo

Former KU football player Cory Kipp damaged his hand after doing "bear crawls" as punishment after a practice in 2003.

Reader poll

Should Mark Mangino be the head coach of the Kansas Jayhawks next season?

  • Yes 47% 2863 votes
  • No 45% 2729 votes
  • Undecided 7% 453 votes

6045 total votes.

No word on Mangino's status

Amid circulating rumors, there has still been no action taken with football coach Mark Mangino. An investigation into his conduct is still in progress.

Amid denials from Kansas University football coach Mark Mangino that he has physically and verbally abused players during his eight-year tenure in Lawrence, one former player has provided documentation of mistreatment he says he suffered under the coach.

Cory Kipp, a defensive lineman under Mangino in 2002 and ’03, told the Journal-World this week that he endured significant injuries to his hand as a result of a punishment carried out by the coach — a claim backed up by multiple former players, as well as photos taken shortly after the incident.

“It must have been the worst pain I’ve ever felt,” Kipp said.

Mangino, the subject of an internal university investigation into his treatment of players, could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

According to Kipp, who started all 13 games at nose tackle during the ’03 season, the incident transpired as follows:

At the beginning of an afternoon workout in August of ’03, Mangino told Kipp to see him after practice to undergo punishment for the player’s failure to weigh-in earlier that day.

Kipp figured the punishment would be running “cross-fields” — something he and another former player said was a typical penalty for such an infraction — but was instead told to “bear-crawl” across the AstroTurf field at Memorial Stadium on his hands and feet.

Kipp began the crawl and, after moving several yards, felt a burning sensation in his hands. On multiple occasions, Kipp said, he stopped to complain that the turf was burning his hands — according to a University of Arkansas report, artificial playing surfaces have been documented at up to 199 degrees in temperature — but was ordered by Mangino, who was walking alongside the crawling player, to keep going.

By the time Kipp had finished, the skin near the heel of his hand had been completely seared, and photos provided to the Journal-World depict blistering and a sizable area of missing skin.

As a result of the injury, Kipp said, he was forced to undergo extensive treatment on his hand by then-head football trainer Carol Jarosky throughout the next three weeks, and although he said at least two members of the coaching staff were aware of the injury, he was told to practice through it.

“It wasn’t like because my hand was burned, I took a couple days off,” Kipp said. “They made me practice.”

Each day for three weeks, he said, Jarosky — who did not immediately return a phone message seeking comment — would treat and wrap the hand before workouts, using multiple layers of padding. But in the days immediately following the injury, Kipp said, he would return to the locker room after practice with the padding soaked through in blood.

Asked to examine the photos for his opinion on the severity of the damage, Birmingham, Ala.-based dermatologist Conway Huang confirmed the injury was either frictional or heat-related.

If heat-related, Huang wrote in an e-mail to the Journal-World, it was consistent with second-degree burns.

Since allegations arose two weeks ago that Mangino had regularly verbally and physically abused players, however, the coach has contended that he has done nothing inappropriate in his running of the program.

During his weekly radio show Nov. 19, for instance, he lashed out at former players and parents who had spoken out against him, insisting their allegations were an attempt at “15 minutes of fame.” Asked following Saturday’s 41-39 season-ending loss to Missouri whether he’d be willing to tone down his approach if implored to do so by university administrators, meanwhile, he responded, “You’re coming with the assumption that it needs toned down. How I coach is how I coach. Ninety-nine percent of the kids here appreciate it.”

Three other players contacted by the Journal-World confirmed the incident, including Sid Bachmann, a defensive tackle on the ’02 and ’03 Kansas teams, and former fullback Austine Nwabuisi.

“The thing was, that day, it was so hot on the field,” Bachmann said. “... We were running cross-fields, and it was so hot that the bottom of my feet were burning. I could feel the bottom of my feet — through my socks and my cleats, they were burning.”

Despite the severity of the incident, Kipp said an apology — or any sign of remorse on the part of Mangino — would have been enough to move on without any hard feelings.

“If he said that he was sorry, and he didn’t realize (the turf) was that hot, then I would have accepted his apology and that would have been that,” Kipp said. “But I never got that.”

What’s more, during a team meeting later that season, Kipp says Mangino brought the incident up in front of coaches and players — a story confirmed by Bachmann.

After pointing out a tackle that Kipp had missed during the previous week’s game, Mangino allegedly threatened to burn the player’s other hand if he ever missed a tackle again.

“I looked at some of the assistant coaches when (Mangino) said that, and they just had their heads down,” Bachmann said. “Our (defensive line) coach had his head down and he was just shaking his head.”

At the urging of his roommate, meanwhile, Kipp took photos of the damage following the incident and strongly considered approaching athletic director Lew Perkins before deciding against it due to fear of retribution — namely, worries over a potential decrease in playing time or the revocation of his scholarship.

Kipp, who now lives in California, said he was prompted to come forward after hearing Mangino’s denials of earlier allegations involving his mistreatment of players.

“I’m doing this,” Kipp said, “because I’ve got proof how horrible a coach he is.”

Comments

temjay 5 years, 5 months ago

And he can't manage a clock either!!!

Eurekahwk 5 years, 5 months ago

And there's your proof of physical abuse. His firing is just, therefore no huge buyout settlement. And NO RANDY EDSALL!

Nutflush21 5 years, 5 months ago

Edsall? Ugh! I want someone with strong Texas recruiting ties. Kevin Sumlin fits the bill.

bluehawkrising 5 years, 5 months ago

Gosh I have no love for this guy anymore. In the end, the past few weeks will turn out to be a good thing for KU, just like Roy Williams leaving us was.

Mangino had a horrible conference record, and besides one season, has been pretty much mediocre. Some say he lifted us to new heights, but I think Lew is more responsible for the energy in our football program than Mangino. I love KU football as much as anyone, and I love that we have turned the corner in getting our stadium filled and excited on game day.

Lew is committed to winning here, as he should be being the 2nd highest paid AD in the land.

We have nothing to be afraid of with a new hire. It doesn't take much to win the north these days. Any of the guys on our list will be a huge improvement.

Mangino's sins, and shortcuts, and cheating have caught up to him and I for one am glad they have. KU deserves a better coach and more importantly a better man to lead our kids on the football field.

Is there a football version of Bill Self out there?

David Reed 5 years, 5 months ago

na na na na na na na na hey hey goodbye

Billy Derringer 5 years, 5 months ago

who the hell does mangino think he is, this fat slob cant even bend over let alone likes to rub salt in players eyes.--send u home so u can get shoot--burn your other hand--be a drunk like your dad, and on and on and on. this is ku not some damm football p.o.w. camp...get this beached whale off a campus now....i mean who the hell does he think he is-- this is kansas a big time brand and they dont have to put up with this sht and losing to go along with it.................MM is a joke...............one of his players needs to pimp slap him and see how tuff this bully really is...............

drum1984 5 years, 5 months ago

This is the tipping point for me. I was supportive of Mangino up until now, annoyed at players complaining about yelling or poking in the chest but this is ridiculous. Mangino has got to go. Kansas football simply will not be able to recruit with this story out there combined with everything else. I know if I had a kid who was a d1 prospect and I read this article there is now way in hell I would let my kid play for him.

Jeffery Barrett 5 years, 5 months ago

Tommy Tuberville? Please. Give me....Oh well.....Hey, how 'bout Mike Leach! You want press conferences?! I got ya press conferences! Then we can hear about the players' fat girlfriends!!!

NH_JHawk 5 years, 5 months ago

not good...I cringe at the thought of what's next.

5 years, 5 months ago

Unequivocally despicable. I would like to hear the Mangino supporters defend this.

stravinsky 5 years, 5 months ago

Those who believed the "poke in the chest" was just the tip of the iceberg seem to have been quite correct...

That story is just shocking.

Due process, Max. Everything's out, but when you're firing a coach, you make sure to dot your i's and cross your t's so it doesn't cost you millions.

ohjayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

This is absolutely awful. I agree that it will be very difficult for KU football to continue recruiting the more these types of stories come out. However, I heard on Doug Gottlieb's show on Monday someone from 910 in KC say that, according to MM's contract, any termination must be preceded by an investigation that lasts a total of 21 days. My estimation is that the investigation is on day 14. We have another 7 days before the investigation can conclude.

As for potential replacements, I would not be adverse to Skip Holtz. Another name that is intriguing to me (only because I live 35 miles from Ohio University and this person is kind of at the forefront here, especially considering the type of season they're having) is Solich. He kind of got a raw deal at NU, and I could imagine he would love a chance to face them every year and kick some Cornhusker tail.

Dyrk Dugan 5 years, 5 months ago

these physical abuse stories, (Watkins, Mortensen, this one) if all 100% true, are bad stories, and the coach went too far.

i feel sorry for this kid, who didn't feel like he could speak up. i remember him playing, and i know we had very few DTs back then.....good grief, he should have said something.

i just want this to end, one way or the other. we have to secure this recruiting class....and we need to start looking for a new coach NOW, if indeed we are to be looking for a new coach. but guess what? we're now in day 4. it's too long already.

floridajayhawks 5 years, 5 months ago

Tuberville would be good, should of never got fired from Auburn. He has southern ties and coming from the SEC would get faster players on defense.

Rivethead 5 years, 5 months ago

I sure would love to hear the other side of this story. I doubt we will. And even if we do, it'll be "coaches" speak that basically says "I coach my way and some kids like it and others don't".

exiledhawkfan 5 years, 5 months ago

agreed maxhawk...this is certainly way more than enough to remove any shred of lingering doubt in my mind that he should go. I'm sure there's a statute of limitations, but wouldn't an incident like this even border on criminal action?

TheShot122293 5 years, 5 months ago

Like some others, I was on the fence until now. This seems too well documented to deny. Even on the off-chance that it isn't true, the damage to KU's reputation for recruiting is done. MM has to be gone.

Hey, Charlie Weis is available.

I'm kidding.

Gordon Penny 5 years, 5 months ago

“If he said that he was sorry, and he didn’t realize (the turf) was that hot, then I would have accepted his apology and that would have been that,” Kipp said.

Even if the physical pain was bad, this situation really could not be as bad as poor Kipp claims it to be is all it would take for Kipp to feel better is an apology from Mangino. To me, that makes Kipp sound like a joke.

exiledhawkfan 5 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Sean Rodger 5 years, 5 months ago

I agree with the Tommy Tubberville pick - I liked him as a coach at Auburn, and he got fired when he switched his offense to the spread, and he didn't have the players to correctly run the spread - therefore they weren't offensively sound. Tubberville would be great to get a hold of - especially with the ties to the south. Great call.

UCONN coach? Seriously? I'd take a former SEC coach (or an assistant) that had to coach in "big games" every week.

Kent Wells 5 years, 5 months ago

Wow. Someone should make him crawl from his office to whereever his car is illegally parked while campus police yell at him.

There is no defending this. I can't wait to see someone try.

Kent Wells 5 years, 5 months ago

Well, enter halogenheadupbutt. I really can't believe someone defended MM. Wow. Must have tortured cats as a kid.

DocBean 5 years, 5 months ago

I think what has come to light in the last 2 or 3 weeks shows why Bill Young left for Miami, for the same pay. At the time everyone assumed he wanted to retire in south Florida; a year later he's living in Oklahoma, so obviously retirement isn't what got him out of Kansas.

I really thought that we had found a coach that other schools were afraid to take because of his weight, and his weight would keep him from moving to the higher level schools. Turns out his weight isn't the problem.

Jacobpaul81 5 years, 5 months ago

1.) Goodbye Mark. If this is true, you're done.

2.) Lew needs to resign his position. If these accusations are true, it's proof of Lew Perkins' inability to properly administrate an academic athletic program. He needs to find himself another job. That's flat out poor administration.

FSUJHAWK 5 years, 5 months ago

Even if this story, and other stories of mental and physical abuse, is not 100% true the old adage of "where there is smoke there is fire" comes to mind. Regardless of the truth, MM and KU must move on their separate paths. This should happen ASAP but in this litigious world we know all the grammar, punctuations and letterings must be in order before the settlement agreement is signed. It will be interesting to learn what the investigation finds and indeed if the victims will seek compensation from the university.

I agree with others that MM's replacement should have strong recruiting ties to the south, in particular Texas. A younger energetic SEC/Big 12 guy with proven success and national exposure would be preferable.

RCJHGKU!!!

hawkone 5 years, 5 months ago

Interesting that a few years ago a story ran about how Mangino was a strict disciplinarian and that one of his punishments was making players bear crawl across the field among other things, such a, making the whole team run if one person left a towel on the locker room floor. It is unfortunate that this player was injured, but where was everyone crying for justice then? Is cruel treatment okay as long as no one gets hurt and we are winning games? Oh wait! The last few weeks have already proved that point. When I played football as a kid I broke my arm on a play and was told it was fine and went back on the field only to break it worse later in the game. And you know what? It sucked, but it wasn't cruel punishment or intent. It was a frickin mistake and humans are incapable of perfection, therefore, errors in judgment are made. I am not defending what happened with Mangino, because he should not have forced the player to the point of injury for a punishment. I am not defending the poor judgment involved in multiple fractures in my arm. What I am stating is that mistakes are made and people have errors in judgment. I hope that all of you who are condemning never have the mistakes of your lifetime publicly aired.

K_Easthouse 5 years, 5 months ago

Thought I'd post a comment here thanking Dugan for his reporting. He gets a lot of hell from a few posters, but this story covers nearly all the bases for journalistic integrity: confirming sources, reviewing evidence by an unaffiliated, third-party expert, and even tried to get ahold of Mangino for the obligatory "no comment."

Good reporting on a hot-button issue. No way you can be accused of bias here.

Lone_salina_kufan 5 years, 5 months ago

I would like to see Gary Barnett (I think thats his name) from TCU. He's going to go undefeated and not be in the title game. I think he would welcome a move to BCS conference, and has extremely strong recruiting ties in Texas.

TenaciousD 5 years, 5 months ago

Shows us how much Mike Leach knows calling it a "witch hunt". Mack Brown also being buddy-buddy with Mangino two weeks ago.

Maybe they don't feel intimidated at all by Mangino and consequently support him. No doubt, they see changes happening to the facilities and program. Maybe they fear Lew.

rcakmon 5 years, 5 months ago

Lone_salina_kufan...the TCU coach, Patterson, just signed a long-term contract.

K_Nut 5 years, 5 months ago

I'd hate to be a coach now or the near future. Society is getting so weak that you can't step on the wrong person's toes or everything will go wrong. What is proper discipline nowadays? Sure doesn't seem like you can discipline a kid any more for anything because mommy and daddy will come hollering(even in college).
I truly think a lot of these stories are being stretched way too much and that Mangino is getting screwed in all this. No matter if he is able to somehow keep his job or however much longer he has in Lawrence, his character as a person should not be touched which unfortunately it is. Coach Mangino, I thank you for what you've done for KU Football and that I hope somehow you can survive this fiasco that is going on.

Maracas 5 years, 5 months ago

Mangino needs to be gone by the end of the business day. Period. He is a blight on the university.

Lone_salina_kufan 5 years, 5 months ago

rcakmon...thanks, I didn't know that. That sucks, I really think he would've been a good fit

KANSTUCKY 5 years, 5 months ago

"I'll burn your hands if you can't tackle." There ought to be quite a few pics out there. Time to move on.

KGphoto 5 years, 5 months ago

Get Bobby Bowden! Yeeehaaawww!

Somebody in between Mangino (hand burner) and Terry Allen (kiss the burnt hand to make it better) would be nice.

Edsell? No F'ing way! Too many UConn connections to be serious. At some point Lew would start looking like Carl Peterson hiring anybody with Phili ties. Besides, in my opinion his team is mired in controversy pertaining to a knife fight that left a player dead. ESPN has been waxing rhapsodic and making heroes, and handing out Kleenex, but that murder is nothing short of gang violence.

I would say Gary Patterson but I live in Colorado and I've been watching Dan Hawkins squirm at a major program, ever since he took a minor near greatness, and that's right where Gary is.

Beaty? Hey, I'm just sayin'. It's really all about recruiting, and he's been our ace. And he hasn't been to shabby coaching the two best wide receivers in the history of the program.

Crap I don't know. I trust Lew though.

kuhawksr1 5 years, 5 months ago

Anyone ask Kipp why he didn't weigh in?

Rick Arnoldy 5 years, 5 months ago

Halogenlamps, it was bad enough that Kipp felt the need to document it. That’s bad. And you just don’t say “no” to a coach unless you want to get kicked off the team or ride the bench.

Maxhawk, there’s not as many coaching jobs out there as people think. An assistant coach is not going to call his boss on the carpet in front of everyone. Who knows if they said or didn’t say something to him behind closed doors? Maybe this is why we keep losing assistant coaches.

Agree, though, that this is probably the last straw.

Seth Peattie 5 years, 5 months ago

would like to see his fat*ss bear crawling on 200 degree turf. worse than anytthing to me is his attitude ("you’re coming with the assumption that it needs toned down. How I coach is how I coach. Ninety-nine percent of the kids here appreciate it”). Idiot thinks he hasn't done anything wrong, wouldn't do anything differently.

i think 99% of Jayhawks would appreciate you getting your *ss fired by the end of business today.

go back to the toll booth, clown.

Rick Arnoldy 5 years, 5 months ago

I’m having trouble downloading Mangino’s contract but a requirement for a 21 day investigation sounds odd. What if a coach beat someone about the head with a helmet and the whole team saw it. Would we really need a 21 day investigation to take action?

If that clause exists, that should take the heat off of Perkins for dragging this out. Why wouldn’t he come right out and say it if that is the case?

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

Edsell no because of his previous ties to Lew. The Houston coach? Why do so many people want him? That is a serious question because I don't know a lot about him except that he has been in the thick of things for a while. I do know that even with a very highly touted and talented QB and a couple of other very talented offensive players (in other words what we had this year) he couldn't beat KU in the Fort Worth Bowl.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Lew this a.m. 610 radio has john kirby of jayhawkslant.com reporting that some of our 4 star recruits and their 'relationsip' to some of our assist. coaches...better get John in your office to get a flavor of his pov. regarding our top all-texas recruits and which ones are in the house and which ones are vulnerable & why.

Gavin Fritton 5 years, 5 months ago

Lost in all this is the fact that the LJW isn't, you know, running the actual pictures of this. It can't be because of privacy concerns because they were free to show them to a third-party physician to ask for an opinion. And if it IS for privacy concerns, is there some reason the paper/website couldn't just say " we aren't running the pictures due to privacy concerns"?

I'm not calling anyone a liar here and I am not sure what this says about Mangino since we haven't heard his side of the story, but I do think it's interesting reporting on the part of the Journal-World that they say that three other players "confirmed" the story yet in the article none of them did that at all. Only one player was quoted and all he said was that the field was really hot. He didn't say that the incident transpired like Kipp says it did and there are zero quotes from the other players to suggest anything at all like a confirmation.

I'm not a journalist or an expert in journalistic ethics, but this smells like bad reporting on the part of the LJW. One ex-player says something, One doctor says that the players claims COULD have happened the way he said (note that he said that the injury was related to either heat or friction) and then the newspaper running the story says that three players confirmed it happened but doesn't actually run any quotes from those players that say that it did, in fact, happen that way.

I'm not defending Mark Mangino in this. I can't because I don't know enough about it. And I don't know enough about it because the Lawrence Journal-World is doing shoddy reporting in the story. If Mangino really did the things this story says, well, that would be difficult to defend. But so far we have one disgruntled ex-player (it's okay that he is disgruntled as he clearly believes it happened the way he says it did) who considered filing a lawsuit (no grudge to settle there, right?), one doctor who doesn't say anything definitive and three players, two of whom say nothing on the record and one of whom who says only that the turf was hot on the day in question.

Tell you what, Lawrence Journal-World, why don't you re-write the story so it's ethically sound and then get back to us? This simply looks as if you're taking the role you have so often been accused of readily accepting: Mouthpiece and media arm KU Athletics. Why make Lew Perkins do the dirty work of dealing with Mangino's alleged bad acts when he can have you trash the guy publicly. Did you guys even call Mangino for comment on the story? Because the story doesn't mention that.

pmohr13 5 years, 5 months ago

I was thinking Frank Solich too. He got fired after a 9-3 season at Nebraska, took them to a National Championship game in 2001, produced a Hiesman winner and has also turned the Ohio program around. Plus you can guarantee that he brings his all to the Nebraska game.

Mike Johns 5 years, 5 months ago

seriously... and understand that i am in support of axing mangino simply for tanking the last 7 games, being the baylor of the North, and his play calling...

but this is a stretch. kipp is soft.
this is football - it is a violent sport.
i would argue that for a nose tackle, bear-crawling makes him a better player than a "cross-field" would do. your nose guard doesnt work on speed but fight anad strong hands and toughness.

anyone who has played football at even a high school level has had to bear crawl or worse.
I throw kipp's whining out the window...

it is freaking football

88hawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Interesting that he's a player that would have been a hanger-on from the Terry Allen era as were his witnesses. I wonder if he was with our Chalupa player who got stuck in the drive-thru window during the Allen days. What type of retribution would be possible for a player that graduates? He could have publicized this story years ago and there would have been no retribution. Sorry about the hand but come forward when it's not politically popular! Scot Pollard is right when he decries the wussification of America!

blackhawkjayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Schottenheimer is the way to go. Proven winner with mutliple teams. Lots of collegiate rah-rah enthusiasm. KU ties. Can bring his son from the Jets as our future HC. His name will secure any waivering commits and anyone who knows anything about football must agree...the guy can flat coach.

pmohr13 5 years, 5 months ago

The actual incident of the bear crawls burning his hand isn't the bad part. It could have been an honest mistake that he didn't know it would burn his hand. But forcing him to practice through it where you use your hands repeatedly as a d-lineman is terrible. There was no way this injury was going to heal itself in an appropriate amount of time. Then comes the worst part, he yells at him saying that he is going to burn his other hand? So Mangino is knew that he burned this kids hand and making him practice with an injury (which is what other ex-players have reported), and then he threatens him to do the same thing to his other hand with no remorse? Despicable

K_Easthouse 5 years, 5 months ago

"I'm not a journalist or an expert in journalistic ethics.."

Thanks, Gavin, that's all I needed to hear before reading your rant.

It's an ethically-sound story, and Dugan and the editors I'm sure jumped through hoops just to get this story to print. The story isn't about the confirmation these guys saw it - you don't need quotes saying "Yup, that happened. That was crazy stuff, man." And there was a paragraph early on saying "Mangino couldn't be reached for comment."

As for not running the pictures, most media outlets have strict ethical policies regarding running imagery of any injuries. This ranges from war photography to seeing an athlete on a field/court with a leg snapped in half. And that's something that's not negligible from most Ombudsmen. Images of 2nd degree hand burns certainly falls under that category.

Lay off the LJW. They did a good job here. We ride them enough for little errors, but need to credit them where credit is due.

But, you know, nice job on being a journalism expert and all. Really, it's working out well for you.

ohjayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

shelleysue - The coach that lost to KU in the Fort Worth Bowl is now at Baylor. This is a different coach.

pmohr13 5 years, 5 months ago

I'm starting to think that Mangino lost the team this year after the brawl because his punishment was overdone?

Hawk1969 5 years, 5 months ago

Wow!

I sure hope something is announced by this afternoon or early tomorrow concerning MM's future. Time is not an ally of the administration. Let's hope Perkins doesn't follow MM's clock management style with this!!

I hope Perkins looks south for MM's replacement...Sumlin, Cromwell, or even make a play for Florida's d-coordinator. I hope that Perkins brings in someone who makes the rest of the Big XII say "uh ho, we're in trouble when we play KU". KU needs a man who can recruit Texas and possibly some other southern states where football is king. I'd like to see a defensive minded coach.

I'm just ready for this to be over so recruiting doesn't take any more of a hit.

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

Coaching wish list, Charlie Strong D cord from Florida, talk about being able to recruit the South. Next would be young gun and up and comer Major Applewhite RB coach at TX, plus he had one season as co O cord at Alabama, he could recruit the South as well.

As for current coach Mangino, well there are some sad stories out there and thats upsetting, wish they were untrue, he put this program into relevence not only in the Big 12 but Nationaly or we wouldn't even be talking about it.

If Lew hires Edsall, I'll be a Basketball fan only with KU and forget all about College football, there will be no reason to watch it for the next 4 years or below medicore play.

kugrad93 5 years, 5 months ago

88hawk, Kipp was a juco transer recruited by Mangino's staff, as was Bachmann.

gavinesq, just because they don't offer a lot of quotes from other players doesn't mean they didn't get confirmation. Not everything a source says is quotable. If the reporter says, Did this really happen?" and Sid answers with "Yeah" do you really need to see that in quotes?

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

ohjayhawk - that explains a lot, doesn't it!

I don't really keep up with other coaches so I don't have an opinion about who I would like to see come in.

I still back Mangino because of everything he's done for our program. What he's done goes FAR beyond wins and losses. That is obvious when you look around on game day. I do not like to hear the horror stories about Mangino, but I have two thoughts. #1 There are just as many players and parents, maybe more, coming to his defense. As I've said before, there is good and bad. Honestly, I am pretty sure we would hear these types of horror stories about almost every D-1 coach. I don't like it, but it's the nature of the beast and if you crucify one coach over it and not the next, put simply that's totally wrong. #2 The next coach won't come with any guarantees either and more than likely things will get worse before they get better. So I hope everyone complaining about Mangino is prepared to be patient.

Jim Jackson 5 years, 5 months ago

I had a couple buddies on the squad in '03, they told me one time Kipp broke into the weight room at 2am to work out. He was huge, looked like Steve Latimer from "the program" he used to work at abe n jakes breaking up degenerate fights. Anyway, Mangino needs to go, this is just icing on the cake for rival coaches and recruits to use against us. We definitely need a defensive minded coach who can recruit on the defensive side of the ball. I like Venables. Or a young guy like Turner Gill who really connects with his players and demands their respect. In any case we need to move on this ASAP.

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

Shelly I have never complained about MM, and I feel the same way you do, it may get worse before it gets better, just hope not.

jayhawkr34 5 years, 5 months ago

OMG, where's the documentation? where's the proof? If this story is true, I'll admit it when and if it comes out, the proof that is. My god people its football, football, not soccer!!! You notice all the players, well non-players, that are complaining "now" were either underachievers, or not that good to begin with. It's Football, not soccer, hell soccer aint even a sport!!

Gavin Fritton 5 years, 5 months ago

K-Easthouse-

My bad on the not reaching Mangino for comment. They did say that and I seemed to skip right past it. No defense offered here.

But the rest, well, dude, you're wrong. No one else says what the story says they say. No doctor confirms the injury is what Kipp says it is. A doctor does say that one of two possibilities is what Kipp says it was. The story says that three players confirmed what Kipp says happened actually happened, but then they don't have a single quote to say that. The point I was making about not being a journalist is that you don't have to be one to see that this story has holes in it. if a player said that it happened the way Kipp says it happened, why not run a quote that actually says it. Someting along the lines of "Nwabuisi said 'Coach made him keep bear crawling even though the skin was peeling off his hand and he stopped a couple of times because he said he was injured,'" would do it. But instead all you have is the LJW offering me hearsay (go ahead, I'll wait while you look up the word "hearsay") where they say "we were told by other guys that it happened the way Kipp says it happened but they didn't go on the record with their accusations. One guy did say it was really hot out there, though."

As for the pictures, I call BS. Newspapers run pictures all the time of injury, death and mayhem and you're just wrong if you say otherwise. If the pictures aree especially graphic they might put a warning/disclaimer out there before you can link to them on the web, but they show them. I recall a picture of Wayne Simien walking off the court favoring his still-dislocated shoulder in newspapers all over Kansas. However, if the LJW is going to refer to the pictures and not run them, it would be a good idea for them to at least say why they aren't running them. Cite privacy concerns, lack of permission from Kipp or whatever bit don't refer to a critical piece of evidence, decline to provide it and that not say why you aren't providing it.

I want to make it clear, again, I am not defending Mangino. I'm also not saying that this piece isn't 100% accurate. In fact, Ithink it probably is. But it's weak journalism when a story relies so much on hearsay and supposition when they apparentloy have actual, credible material they could run to prove their point.

gongs4ku 5 years, 5 months ago

The people trying to defend MM specifically in reference to the events described in this article are pathetic. There's a difference between strong discipline and abuse. This is clearly an instance of the latter.

Rian Ankerholz 5 years, 5 months ago

A miniscule point: Did anyone else think it strange that Coach Mangino wore a black jacket at the MU game? Given the circumstances, it struck me as somewhat defiant. At a minimum, it seemed unthoughtful to wear the opposing school's color to a rivalry game.

Brett Marsteller 5 years, 5 months ago

Kevin Sumlin is the perfect fit for us with his recruiting ties to Texas. I hope he comes to Lawrence!

jayhawkr34 5 years, 5 months ago

OMG, now its the "black jacket" conspiracy...LOL!! hey lamyahawk, if you knew the first thing about football, you would know that people on the sidelines that want to be seen easily wear something to standout, or be recognized quickly, hence black instead of red. but i guess in soccer, which im sure your moomy let you play they didnt even care.

Dennis Mahorney 5 years, 5 months ago

Some are saying words like "mistakes, and overblown." but lets try this ourselves. Do it right or I will burn your hand in the deep fryer again. (fast food mgt.) Get my change right or I will slam your hand in the cash register drawer like yesterday. (grocery store) Park on your side of the street or I will key your other car too.( neighbor) yeah....We all threaten to repeat our mistakes.....

pmohr13 5 years, 5 months ago

O no a starter for us complains, but discredit the guy because he wasn't good enough to make it to the NFL. What an underachiever. Good logic jayhawkr34.

Rian Ankerholz 5 years, 5 months ago

jayhawker34: 1) I said it was a miniscule point. 2) Coach Mangino is rather easily seen on the sidelines in any color. 3) My point was that some color OTHER than black might have been more appropriate at the MU game. 4) My comment about the jacket color really has little to do with my knowledge of football, or lack thereof. 5) Why so angry? 6) If you are going to lambast someone on a message board, it is much more effective to spell the words in your tirade correctly, (moomy was funnier, though).

jahawkdave 5 years, 5 months ago

jayhawkr34 - Our coach is the underachiever! (ONE just one season he overachieved).

15th highest paid coach in the Nation - Last place team - 7 game losing streak - .500 overall record - .370 overall conf. record - KU's last 16 conf. games Mangino is 5-11 with our best QB & Wr's in KU history!! - Getting us neg.national coverage this year - disgracing KU and KUFB

Mangino you are a quitter, you quit football at Youngstown State your first year!! How is a player or recruit suppose to respect you. Have you ever played College football with an injury? You quit your first HS head coach job after one year, because of your terrible coaching style. Do us all a favor and please quit KUFB.

I'm embarassed to have this a$$ as a representative of KU!

jayhawkr34 5 years, 5 months ago

ok lameyahawk(spelled correctly) you got me on the spelling. But in your argument did you take time to notice ALL the asst. coaches and coorinators were wearing "black" of some fashion. damn i sure hope i spelled everything right.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

Good point - Lew should also be under fire if all these things are true.

pmohr13 5 years, 5 months ago

How are you so sure he knew of these things? I'm interested where you heard that because I haven't read anything on that.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

ShellySue: I so appreciate your support to MM, even as he goes down.
I appreciate your loyalty to your position even in face of more evidence. I do think at some point you may elect to reevaluate your position, in face of new evidence.

Were you on the OJ jury.

I've been giddy for some time knowing this week would finally arrive.

A pattern with power delusionals, from ooops, I was going to name names but would lose most of you if I did say, Madhoff, Nixon, Clinton, Saddam, Noriega, Idi Amin, Manuel Marcos, okay okay now I've lost most of you, but back to point, people in power that believe their own PR have hard time releasing the throttle.

"I did nothing wrong and don't need toned down" and "i would rather die on my feet than compromise" is Mark screaming, show me the evidence.

Nixon told Dick Cavet after he resigned the white house, 'it's not illegal if the president does it'. reminds me of "it's not abuse if the head FB coach does it".

The agent for Coach Prince previously at KState is also Mark's. The advice: 'play this out to the bitter end. Make them fire you' we aren't going on our knees for a settlement.

The bad news for Mark is that Prince has played his hand at State, and remains in legal wranglings over his disputed KState millions. Lew will not have that repeated here.

why I'm giddy, I support public disclosure, freedom of press. With the stand, "I did nothing wrong and not going on my knees (quiting). So go ahead shoot me if you have the bullets menas good news for us that want disclosure.

He gave Lew a message. Start the firing squad. That means we will get one of these stories every day or so until Mark bleeds out. He seriouly doesn't believe Lori's report has the goods. He believes his own fiction. He has a great agent but a terrible public relations crew.He is decreasing his hirability not enhancing it & we get the report one day at a time. His call not Lew's.

With the stories to come out, we'll get to consensus among Jayhawk nation.

Except for the ever loyal, XXXXX. With her & others support we will keep Mark tied to the friing squad pole. I do so appreciate her stance, albeit mis- informed. i don't know men in XXXXXXX's life, ( struck by me very unfair even for a blog, excuse me) I do know her football coach, and know he is a cellar dwellar abuser who thinks he is a leader.

LJW: your mission is to get all these stories out in public before the settlement and they are all locked down. Go get 'em. Freedom of the press.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

will Mark be at AFH tonight so we can give him a proper send off and our heartfelt thanks.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

It's Lew's job to know these things. If he knew - that's a strike. If he didn't know - it's still a strike.

milehighhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

What I don't understand are the comments on Lew about this.

The article clearly states the player thought about going to Lew, but didn't.

How the hell is he supposed to know something happened if no one told him?

stravinsky 5 years, 5 months ago

I'm sort of shocked how many people are in denial that this could possibly be MM's fault. Always some reason why you can't believe the LJW's story for some people, I suppose.

Lets look at this objectively. There are two possibilities behind this:

Possibility numero uno: Mangino is in the right. This means... 1. Joe freaking Mortensen is a wuss and exaggerated Mangino's meanness. 2. Kipp either is lying about things, or MM was completely justified in inflicting upon him an injury that even with multiple layers of bandaging, left "the padding soaked through in blood" after practice. 3. All the players who have confirmed the multiple stories are liars. 4. Threatening to send a kid who's brother just got shot home so he can get "shot with his homies" is acceptable 5. Telling someone they were going to become an alcoholic like their father is alright.

OR the other possibility is that Mangino has a history of repeatedly crossing the line when it comes to what is acceptable treatment of human beings.

How are we still even arguing about this part of things?

About new coaches. Those who think that we could get the TCU coach here, even had he not signed a new contract, are dreaming. BCS conference or no, there's no way that KU would be looked at as a move up from TCU right now with how they've been doing / our lack of football tradition. Same sort of thing applies to the Cincy coach. We're not Oklahoma or Texas or even Nebraska. We're not going to get somebody that established and who is that hot of a commodity.

Tubberville I could see. That wouldn't be bad.

Skip Holtz is one that I would like a lot, I dunno if it's feasible or not. He's done well in the past, and KU would probably be seen as a move up on the ladder for him. Plus I like Lou, despite his constant Notre Dame praise.

Gill has been pretty decent in the past as well. He's definitely going to get a chance at a bigger school someday. Maybe it'll work out, maybe not. But I think he should definitely be on the list.

And of course, there are some good coordinators out there.

RaiderRed 5 years, 5 months ago

As someone looking from the outside in...Be careful what you wish for!

Mark M has taken a program from 35,000 per game to 50,000. Won a BCS game, better than us in that regard, though the BIG 12 South has something to do with that.

It appears from the outside that there is some people jealous of what has happened with the football programs success and the ink it is taking away from the basketball side of it.

It is ashame. I can remember the second time I came up there for a game with KU, there were 27,000 in attendance for our game with you guys. First time was under, I can't remember his name off hand, I know we beat him in the Insight Bowl and he got fired from Minnisota. I digress. Anyway there were 48,000 for that 1996 game in Lawrence.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

PMOR13 your post 12/2 943 is spot on.

not conincidence we went 5-0 and then 0-7

disclipline builds men and if taken over the line to abuse, it destroys teams. MM ripped the heart out of them and it showed on the field of play.

your blog is spot on yes that was the turning point when he lost his team.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

lighthawk - if you can't post comments without insulting people, you really should not post things on here. I will say this yet again. I agree with precious little of what you say, yet some how I manage to not insult you. Do you know why I don't insult you? Because although you appear to be a complete jerk, I do not personally know you so I am not going to form an opinion based only on what you write here.

NONE OF US WILL EVER KNOW ALL THE FACTS. Thus, what each and every one of us post here is pretty much our own opinion and beliefs. And if I understand the point of this message board, it is for us to voice our opinions, concerns, and wishes based on what we know. I'm not going to crucify the man because I don't know everything there is to know - it's that simple. I have also never come on here and said negative things about those coming forward other than my opinion is that they should have come forward when the incidents occurred. If these things did happen, there are certain things that I feel are incredibly wrong and need to be addressed. I've felt that way from the beginning. I simply don't have time to write EVERY one of my opinions here and in great detail.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Redraider, welcome TTech coach, how are those big boned girls and fast cars that your players are listening to these days?

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Shelly I still appreciate your loyalty to a postion I happen not to support, Thank you for sharing. our diversity and difference of opinion help us all.

the jerk.

MitchumMan 5 years, 5 months ago

One question - Why is all of this just now coming out? It's been 6 or 7 years since this happened. If Kipp did not believe that Mangino was doing the right things back then, why not come forward about it? Why wait so long? Smells fishy or should I say "fleshy" to me. Just saying...

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

I can not defend MM, I can not condem the young men that went through waht some of them have endured. But with all the mud slinging from the so called fans it makes me wonder what type of fans that are really wearing the Maze and Crimson.

Yes some bad things have happened, nothing as to where the NCAA will pull scholarships, take away bowl games(those will be missed on thier own by losing games and respect). Getting a new coach will take time, that is to get the right one, one that will work, not one that will be here for two or three years not make progress and leave thr program in worse shape. That is my worst fear.

There are a lot of good coaches out there along with cordinators. Just think back to the summer of 1988 with the basketball program when a lonely assistant with NO experience was hired as a head coach to a defending National Champion and that turned out ok.

KU dosent need to go hire the hottest name out there from a smaller D1 school they need to hire the best person for the job and someone who wants to be here for the long haul and build this program up from where it stands now. As much as Coach Mangino has built it up from the ruins that Terry Allen left it in may the next coach take it up and up from here!!!!!

Rock Chalk!

100 5 years, 5 months ago

To All KU fans:

I have patiently waited for this fiasco to come to an end. Nothing about the style of punishment our coach has put on certain individuals reflects what we stand for at KU. Thankfully it looks like this embarrassment has finally come to an end.

In future times, & all evidence points to a very solid future for KU football in the next couple decades, we need to not attack our athletic Director -- he apparently had a keen sense that something has been wrong.

He has been behind us since he showed up & stays behind our favorite teams regardless of other schools fans coming on our board trying to get Jayhawk nation upset at Lew.

Lew Perkins is very good for the University of Kansas -- if some of us didn't realize this (or had been persuaded by fake fans to think differently), it is time to realize the truth -- Lew is everything we need in an Athletic Director.

He does the job fairly. He does the job right.

We need to stand tall as a group & back Lew Perkins.

With Bill Self & Lew Perkins, we have two of the best sports (& management) minds that have happened to us since the inventor of the football helmet & the forward pass came to town on a train a few years back with his family.

We are a family at KU -- let's support the people who are building our programs in the right way!

As President Roosevelt once said while quoting his favorite college chant:

"Rock Chalk Jayhawk"

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

shelly I went back and read my post and only mentioned you in the 1st paragraph and I praised you and your loyalty. I don't see the insult. help me pls.

Okay the OJ jury reference was a reach. I apologize, you are right we shouldn't insult each other after all we are all fans of the program. I was out of line. and your post (12.2 9:48) may be right maybe all Div. I coaches are abusers as I don't know yet hope not.

the jerk.

jhokfan 5 years, 5 months ago

In spite of all these stories from KU players I’m not hearing any public outcry from the college football community from coaches or players. Whatever Mangino is doing is probably not much different than what goes on at other programs. On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being Tony Dungy and 10 being Bobby Knight, I wonder where Mangino falls.

danno1313 5 years, 5 months ago

It gets well over 100 degrees in Iraq, I ve never heard of a SOLDIER OR MARINE complaining about it. It's time to get tough, It's time to win football games!

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

I think we all forget about what we were like at 20, we wanted to be tough, yet we really weren't. I think we all forget what coaches are like, they are tough ol A-h's and we put with them while we played for them, but we talked bad about them when we were out of practice. Most of them made us better people in a lot of ways.

In a lot of way when a leak starts it dosent take long before the whole levy breaks, its just the way it goes. look at Tiger Woods this week, we all thought the guy was a model husband, now there are how many women coming out of the wood work(no pun intended) saying they have had a fling with him. Just as the past players have done.

Again I have respect for what Coach Mangino has done for this program in the past and i also have respect for what the players have gone through to bring the program up to the level of respect that it deserves.

OKChalkJHawk 5 years, 5 months ago

There are 2 sides to every story. After 6 years how good is your memory? Statistically, every time a story is told it gets bigger and bigger. If the burns were that bad but an apology would heal all wounds-please! The witch hunt continues. I am truly embarrassed as a KU alum. Be careful what you wish for boys. I've lived through many years of dismal KU football. This was the most fun I've had watching the football games. No he's not pretty but he coaches like most D1 football coaches. We haven't started some new technique at KU. Right or wrong, this is how it works at this level. How many of you have kids that play middle school football? A coach in a kids face-unheard of. Not! It happens all the time. It's the difference beween dismal football and competitive football. Wake up.You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want warm fuzzy football at KU then get rid of Mangino and hire Oprah. Time to put your big boy pants on and realize that competitive college football is not going to be pretty.

jayhawkintexas 5 years, 5 months ago

The great UCLA basketball coach John Wooden was asked once how he motivated his players. He said, " We never motivated them with fear but out of a sense of pride." I guess that is why he won all those national championships (plus a lot of exceptional talent). Great coaches motivate in an encouraging/positive manner, bad coaches motivate in a punitive/negative manner--same goes for managers in business.

4jhawks4ku 5 years, 5 months ago

One of the truest forms of bullyism you'll ever see. Get him outta there to show the new recruits we want discipline but we wont allow a big bully who throws his weight around. The assistants should have said something and chose not to in fear of their jobs. Clean house for the sake of future KU football.

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

John Wooden didn't allow tatoo's, hair longer than the player's shoulders, demanded respect, not just of him, but of your team mates the program, the school. If you were on time for practice you were 5 minutes late and that made the whole team late. Before you put John Wooden into this conversation please do your research. He benched a lot of players in his days. When he recruited players he would tell thier parents what he expected from the student athlete and of the parents and how they should act at all times not jsut in the gym but in the class room, on campus, in LA at home and that meant mom and dad too.

Kids don't have that put on them any more and especially the parents. Maybe they should be. But its not the 1960's either.

Rick Arnoldy 5 years, 5 months ago

“Did you know that if mark mangino were a marine corps drill instructor, he wouldn't even get away with 75% of the things he's been accused of? True story.”

Did you know that 77% of statistics are made up? True story.

kesmithstl1 5 years, 5 months ago

John Wooden also said the best motivator was the seat right next to him! Football and basketball are different. Mangino should have recognized the hot turf. I question if he was really walking next to the player the whole time he was doing the crawl though. If it was that hot, his feet would be burning as well. Stories of players playing on turf that hot are infamous. Where are their 2nd degree burns?

bayareajhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

jayhawker34, what is with the soccer bashing? It's a wonderful sport played by more people than any other, both in this country and the world, and it's certainly not easy if you play it competitively. When I was a high school soccer player going through 2 a days, we would run more in our morning practice than the XCountry team did all day long! Think about that for a second.

And it's not just all the running, I had my nose broken several times (never noticed it until after the game), I have permanent nicks and cavities in my shins from being kicked so much (I've seen bones sticking out of legs after particularly nasty tackles), and my hamstrings are forever a problem because of one bad tackle I received as a Sophomore in high school more than 10 years ago. Also, I've probably had about as many concussions as Troy Aikman while trying to score goals by sticking my head into places most people wouldn't stick their feet.

So why don't you just chill out a little bit on soccer, eh? You sound like a rugby fan who says football is wussy because they wear so many pads. They say that all the time and it bothers me just like Americans who say soccer is wussy!

distracted 5 years, 5 months ago

I have been, and still remain, a MM supporter. Despite a mediocre overall record, the amount of excitement, revenue and national exposure the program has received can be directly attributed to him and the teams he has put on the field. Being a life-long KU fan, the excitement the football team has generated has been a welcomed, long-overdue distraction prior to the start of basketball season.

Unfortunately for him, I think his sub-par conference record provides more substantiation for a firing than a few alleged abuse instances. Football is a man's game and, sadly, some players just aren't tough enough to handle it. Did he take it too far a couple times? Probably. Are these instances unheard of at other programs? Probably not. Sadly, there seems to be magnifying glass on our situation that became even more pointed during the losing streak. I can't think of a worse way the situation could've been handled and, unfortunately, this has led to some negative national coverage. I just hope the damages caused by this circus require a bandage instead of a major surgery.

It's sad that Mangino's career here will apparently end in this shroud of controversy (a shroud that rivals the size of his parachute-like letterman's jacket). How far we've come from the 07 love affair with the big guy. He may be a difficult a$$ that wasn't an easy guy to play for, but he's validated a program that was, in large part, a national joke prior to his arrival.

I wish him the best moving forward, but that's exactly what all sides must do - Move Forward.

May the Cromwell era begin.

ravenjayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

I am sorry for Kipps problems. The bottom line is he did not follow directions from the start. He did not follow the rules. If you have 100 people to deal with, you have to have rules and they need to be followed. Period. That is why our program was in a shambles. No discipline. Nobody would even bother about any of this, if our season was 8-4 . The AD would have taken care of all this underwraps if it was one of his good ol boys. Kipp would also be happy as a lark if he would have made it to the professional football level. Then he would have been touting that his coach made him responsible and ready to play major pro ball.

BigSam 5 years, 5 months ago

So, some of you think this will actually amount to something and count as grounds for dismissal? Are you just being hopeful, or are you plain myopic.

The reality is having kids bear crawl is not going to be grounds to punish the kid. Not even on a hot day (they happen all the time and kids practice in these conditions). There is absolutely no evidence that Mangino risked this kid's health. None. Now some of you might note the blisters on the hands. However, unless a medical report from that time is called up that showed the injuries were burn related and serious, it won't matter. The blisters, as noted by the doctor examining the photos, could have been due to heat or friction.

If we fired ever coach at every level who had a kid get blisters as a result of workouts/practice, there would be absolutely no coaches left. End of story.

Heck, the injuries were treated for three days tells us they were quite minor.

Let's be honest. Lew has always wanted to rid himself of Mangino. MM is not his man, his boy, the guy he can count on. This season has allowed Perkins the opening he needs to can Mangino. However, due to Mangino's contract there must be "cause" for the firing within very defined terms, or KU athletics is on the hook for major, major money.

Well, guess what, Lew has screwed up. Mangino is going to walk away with a ton of cash. If he wants to continue coaching there will be an agreement reached that will pay him most of the money that would be "owed" Mangino for a firing without cause. However, if Mangino prefers to take a few years off, maybe retire, he could hammer Lew and the University (if the try to follow through and fire without cause, or the cause is bootstrapped and wouldn't stand up in court) for a lot more money than the $6.6 million we are currently talking about.

Personally, I'm no Mangino fan. Never have been. However, I also realize what is going on and what is at stake. As the saying goes Lew Perkins "screwed the pooch."

thmdmph 5 years, 5 months ago

distracted, I think you've been distracted in your thoughts. There are certain standards and I think this is where you and most people who've posted here differs. If your standard for a good coach is the amount of excitement and income, MM could turn into Jerry Springer and get a big crowd too. He could have Hot Cheer Leaders days. and so on and so forth. Is Caliperi a good coach because he goes to all ends to recruit and then say free-throws not an issue to win championship. He sure got fans excited though and income definitely went up.

I think sometimes this "football is a man's game" mentality is taken too far. At which point do you say enough is enough. Just practicing in hot and humid weather without providing water is not allowed, how is it that forcing someone who's injured to continued practicing or someone to craw on their hands and feet on burning turf acceptible? Would you allow your son's coach do this to him? I wouldn't.

And I agree with you, other things will also contribute to his firing. The B12 record, along with poor recruiting, poor time management & poor coaching,

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

thmdmph, bad recruits, Im sure Todd, Kerry, Dez, Stuckey and others will wonder why they are bad recruits in your eyes. They may be some of the best to come through this school, yes there have been better ie Riggins and Sayers, but cmon now really bad recruiting in todays world against Texas and Florida and the USC's????

Bad Arguement there, but you had a good point til then....

MitchumMan 5 years, 5 months ago

Yeah, poor recruiting? I think he's done a pretty good job overall with recruiting. Better than I can ever remember.

wtarush 5 years, 5 months ago

BIG QUESTION!!!

How many coaches has the KU football program had with a national "Coach of the Year" award in their office? Can we expect another when this witch hunt is over? I think not. We lose Mangino and we lose to K-State and Missouri...again...and again...and over again...

So burn him now and say "oops" later.

This makes me sick!

Ryan Shelton 5 years, 5 months ago

There are two sides to every story. As hard as it is to read about these former players coming out of the woodwork, let's not rush to judgment.

distracted 5 years, 5 months ago

To be clear, the "excitement" I'm referring to is not specific to this season's circus. I was referring to the relevance and national recognition the program has earned over the course of Mangino's tenure. And anyone who downplays the importance of athletic revenue in today's game has their heads in the sand.

Despite the black eye of the last month, it's been awesome having a decent product on the football field to root for and that program has afforded KU the opportunity to upgrade facilities that will, hopefully, hopefully even the playing field in the recruiting world.

Before Manging, most were uninterested in KU athletics prior to Midnight Madness.

barackchalkjhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Rumors suggest a decision will come before the athletic deparment heads out to LA for the game this weekend. I too listened to Jon Kirby this morning and I am concerned about our recruits. We have some very solid guys coming in next year (not quantity, quality). We need to make a decision now and lock these kids down. You know they're talking to other schools, let's make a hire and retain those that deserve it. Or set the record straight. Something, the clock is ticking.

jhawk73usa 5 years, 5 months ago

What a whimp! If this guy was a starter in 03 it shows just how far Mangino took the program.

Krohnutz 5 years, 5 months ago

Not to worry coach, Keegan and Crew will be writing an article as soon as they can to defend you.

Stick to your mantra! Lew did it!

wtarush; Mangino doesn't have a winning record against either KSU or Mizzou. I can count on one peter (both at home and abroad) the times Mangino has beaten Bill Snyder, who just took over at K-State again? That's right, we won't be beating them even if Son-of-Flubber stays here.

I love the Mangino defenders. They have a "WIN AT ALL COSTS!" mentality that they deny having, accuse Lew of having that same mentality and flame him for it, and all the while defend a coach that has anger issues both domestically and professionally who had one season to make a career. He got in trouble as a high school coach, he got in trouble here in town when his son played football. He has had domestic problems which resulted in responses to his house that no charges were ever filed. He is a walking anger problem, and always has been. But again, they are football players, "dey shood be tuff." It is fine to abuse kids that aren't yours.

They want Mangino to stay because they think he wins, but outside of his creampuff nonconference schedule, he doesn't win. Look up his record in eight years. Find me a big win that doesn't have Virginia Tech in the title.

You turn a program around when you can go on the road, in your own conference, and beat good teams. He has NEVER done that. During his tenure, Nebraska was as weak as it has ever been in the history of Nebraska football. Road win, even one? None. Win at home against the big two, OU and UT? None. Winning record against the hated rival that has had football issues themselves (Missouri)? For the love of GAWD he has a 2-2 record against Baylor and a 1-3 record against the Aggies of Texas A&M! He has four combined wins against the south. Four. That is a win every two years against the south. A win... every other year.... He has a winning record against one (again, count on one peter) Big 12 team, not North, not South, all of them combined, Iowa State, be sure to highlight that on your resume coach. I have no idea what another coach is going to do here, but to act like Mangino is anything but a one-hit wonder is ridiculous. He is straight out of 80's music.

Again, Mangino has been here eight years. He got so damn lucky when the stars aligned to get him into the Orange Bowl against one of two teams he would have beat that year (Hawaii anyone?). Thank you, Lord above, for letting us play the ACC (super leet football conference) champs in the Orange Bowl.

So get on here and flame away you true "football" fans who have watched every KU game since the last half of 2007.

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

Lets stop calling these players names, it took all of them to turn this program around.

Its just as bas as the people on here that keep call coach Mangino "fat". Really thats the best and originall you can do? I remember 3rd grade recess too, name calling isn't where we are at.

Maybe, just maybe we should be thankful for all the coaches and players that have walked on the feild in the past 8 years to help turn our program into something respectful.

mileshorse 5 years, 5 months ago

i like the things mark has done.all football coaches do it. however since it appears he is gone, how about NOLAN CROMWELL!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff Hargate 5 years, 5 months ago

If this was the "worst pain he has ever felt" and played through it by doing even more bear crawls I think he does not understand the lesson or to what limits he can push himself on the football field. Are these lessons justified? Who knows, but some kids get what he is teaching and others can't handle it. We did start winning more games and were competitve in the losses.

dhawk282 5 years, 5 months ago

KU will go back to being the embarrasment of the BIG 12 North. Back to Back Bowl wins the last couple of years will be the highlights of our FB Program when we look back in 20 years. Good Night Now

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

whatarush: excuse me a question. you state if we lose Mark we may start a pattern of losing to the two cats., our bitter rivals.

How many years during Mark's time here do we have a winning season in the league? 1 How many teams in the league does he have a winning record against among all 11 of them? 1 In all his games, home & away, including the cupcake creampuffs has he won more than half of them? no. What position did his team, with a couple talented seniors @ key positions, finish this year in the weak northern division? Last place.

I sort of see what you mean, oh my gosh, we lose Mr. Cellar Dwellar Mark the enforcer Mangino and our program may go to pot.

2:59 1st down, they have one time out, you are up by three, 14 seconds later you are punting they have the timeout remaining and you are now up by 1. Hate for our program to go to pot.

Say he wasn't a bum, would you really keep him?
or upgrade?

Shelly's Jerk.

Rick Arnoldy 5 years, 5 months ago

Krohnutz, at least we've been competitive in those road games so at least are (were?) headed in the right direction.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

ohio, you are right at least we aren't gettting blown out in our losses like in the old days.

oops we lost to KState and Nebraska this year by combined 72 points, I just hate the facts.

really though in our 7 conf. losses this year, we were ahead in the 4th quarter in 4 of those 7, so we are competitive longer than the old days. that.s a good start.

shelly's jerk.

Kent Wells 5 years, 5 months ago

Dude, it is Shelley. You're being a jerk.

pmohr13 5 years, 5 months ago

What I don't get is how people are treating these kids as if they have never played football before. Did they not have to play football in high school? So they have experience with coaching, and they made it to a D1 program which means their high school coach did a somewhat good job coaching them. So these players understand how good coaching should be... Might be off on my assessment, but that's just what I was thinking.

thmdmph 5 years, 5 months ago

over the last couple of weeks, I've written several posts defending MM. However, I've defended him mainly in how he was treated with the investigation. The timing for this fiasco was so bad and I don't think it was fair to treat our coach going into the two biggest games of the season for KU - Texas and MU like that. He was b1tch slapped on center stage.

However, to defend MM at this point is beyond me. I think most people will agree that when a person of authority force an inferior to do something knowing that it's harmful - that's abuse. Is it OK to force a kid to whip himself until he bleeds as punishment? Is it OK to force a kid to run naked through his peers as punishment? Is it OK to gently shove a small pen up his a-hole as punishment? So let's just leave it at that.

Now to say MM is a good recruiter or good coach is debatable since he was after all labeled "National Coach of the Year". This was discussed yesterday extensively under the article "Recruiting woes: Mangino’s play-calling against MU not the issue". Additionally, there's been several good postings to point out why he's not a good coach.

As for the notion that KU is going to suck after MM, that's a pretty groom self-defeatist mentality. Sure that may happen, it may not. Who knows. But if Lew is willing to pay somebody several millions dollars to coach here, I'm optomistic that we'll get a good coach.

thmdmph 5 years, 5 months ago

and also, to call these players (former or current) names and sissy... that's just not right. I hope the people who say these things have been through more than these players. otherwise, please spare the players.

KSseahawk 5 years, 5 months ago

I'm no Mangino apologist...cause the guy doesn't seem to have the ability to manage the team, the staff, the clock, the play-calling, etc. and should be fired on that basis. After all, all seven losses were very similar. But this article is ridiculous. It's making the former players look soft and the university like a bunch of cowardly sissy-pansies. Yes, sissy-pansies!

Not sure who's gonna replace him, but Mangino is certainly getting a raw deal here. Back up the armoured truck to haul away his buy-out money...he's going to take this university for every cent he can and I'm not sure I blame him after the way this has gone down.

KState only beat Ft Hays State by 7. Frank Martin is a mess...that team will be mediocre all year. Pullen looks even more disinterested this year than he did last year. Nice beard, by the way.

GoBigRed1 5 years, 5 months ago

Shelly, you are now known as a Manginoista (on NU boards, Solich aplogisits were known as Solichistas). 2nd degree burns do NOT happen at every school.

I will proudly defend Dr. Tom Osborne's attempt at keeping L Phillips off the streets (even though it didn't work), to a fat slob such as Mangino who inflicts physical and psychological abuse on his players.

Rest assured, this does NOT happen at every D-1 school. This is the exception rather than the rule. I am quite sure that you have O-D'd on the FatMan's kool-aid.

GO BIG RED

thmdmph 5 years, 5 months ago

justinryman. I think you misses yesterday's class titled "Recruiting woes: Mangino’s play-calling against MU not the issue". It's kinda sad that I'm having this much time to post over the last couple of days, but it happened. Now, I'm addicted to this forum even though I have butt load to do.

anyway, I think he does have a good eye for assessing talents (especially hidden talents). No doubt, we have very unique special individuals who were hidden talents. However, as for recruiting to fill the voids, namely defense, it's something to be desired. I don't expect him to reel in the 5-stars. But I do think he needs to recruit all around. The specialty coaches do their own recruitiing, but the head coach has to have a better vision of recruiting needs. If he was truly that good of a recruiter, we wouldn't have this horrid of a defense AND rush offense. So, it is one of his weakess.

Now, I'll give you, he's not a bad recruiter either because if next years recruits stay committed, they would be special.

JMO23 5 years, 5 months ago

Two words......... Turner Gill!!!! He will be a solid recruiter once he gets to a BCS school and it will show that Kansas is above schools like Auburn and others that passed on him because of his race.

nnelson 5 years, 5 months ago

The photos of Kipp's hand have been added.

Nick Nelson KUSports.com Web producer

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

I wasn't around the computer yesterday so yeah missedthat one, and yes he did recruit a little one sided of the ball. Living in Nebraska I saw Bill Callahan do the same thing a lot of 5 star recruits on the offesive side not many panned out. Yes he recruited Suh, hey Mangino got Talib.

GoBigRed1, I have a lot of respect for Dr. Tom, but he had a lot of thugs on his teams not only Larry P., so lets don't even go there. And if you knew your history of NU football you would see this as what Stevie boy did to Solich this is just a lot more public, but there were a lot of rumors as to why Frankie got the boot. Booze, Women and so on.

And as good as the D line is at NU its funny how Mangino out coached them.

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

I'd like Gill in KU, but I don't think he will coach against NU and his Mentor Dr. Tom out of respect and well KU did talk to him before they hired Coach Mangino and he never took the interview then. So I'd say thats a no.

GoBigRed1 5 years, 5 months ago

Pederson was a putz. My only complaint with him was that he should have fired "The Midget" the year before. I'm well aware of the rumors, booze, ruffies, women, illegitimate child, etc. However, that is NOT the same thing here at all. I've not heard one player ever say anything about physical or emotional mistreatment by any member of the Cornhusker staff.

As far as thugs, every freakin' program has them. Madhatter's blog is full of them as is Lawrence's -- ya'll just do a better job of keeping the media silenced. Probably because historically ya'll are celler dwellers so the media doesn't give a hairy rat's arse about what goes on within your stellar program. One notable exception would be the TacoBell boy. BWA HAA HAA. Also, the storied riot between football and basketball players got lots of media attention.

Remember one thing, one shouldn't throw stones if one lives in a glass house. If Pelini ever pulls a stunt like this, I will head the call for his ouster. This is pure and utter bs.

GO BIG RED

jhokfan 5 years, 5 months ago

Say what you will about Mangino, he doesn't recruit thugs.

According to the Omaha World-Herald, more than 13 percent of the 1995 Nebraska football team had been arrested.

Why corndog nation insists on deifying Warden Osborne is beyond me. Talk about a man without a moral compass.

djgratt59 5 years, 5 months ago

bwa haaaaaahahaha.. might be the sound a sheep makes when those Nebraska boys tap 'em..

ku_bringback_danny 5 years, 5 months ago

What a bunch of Babies this reminds me of the witch hunt that happened in Nebraska a few years ago when the AD went crazy and fired Frank Solich after a 10 & 3 record. Where is that AD now?....hm.... As for me I have been treated far worse from my high school coach then I have read about. This is part of the football expreance it happens everywhere. Grow up Jayhawks who are crying. Next we will have the ACLU digging around. Speaking of everywhere....Did any body see Bo Pelini what ever his name is at Nebraska throw is head set at his asst. coaches and payers in the Colorado game I have seen it twice this year how come no huskers are crying because they are not babies. Face it we are screwed if he stays or goes it will be a long time before we compete again thanks to the lovely media you guys jacked up this program!

KURocksChalk 5 years, 5 months ago

High school gymnasts get these kinds of "injuries" all the time. Of course, to be fair, they don't come from bear-crawling. I do not think that this constitutes abuse, though. I just have a problem with people yielding the "abuse" when, too much weight-lifting, weight-lifting too long, I'm hot, I'm cold, Coach, my stomach hurts all of which could be real problems, but too often are statements of discomfort. All in all, it is a judgement call. Every coach has to make those calls, in every sport. Still think it looks pretty woosey to me.

Dan Harris 5 years, 5 months ago

jayhawker34-MM having to wear black to standout on yhe sidelines? lol!

thmdmph 5 years, 5 months ago

gymnasts don't have burns like this from intentional punishments. you know, athletes gets broken bones/fingers, so is it ok for your coach to break your finger for punishment? If it is, just put idiot on your forehead.

thmdmph 5 years, 5 months ago

Cole got a tooth knocked out. So, next time for punishment, Self should knock another one out for punishment.

grandpa 5 years, 5 months ago

stravinsky. I was the individual who indicated the "poke in the chest was just the tip of the iceberg" We are now getting a little further into the iceberg. In my younger years, I was an investigator and supervisor of lawsuits for over 20 years. Almost all of my time, I worked for the defense. Much consulting has already occurred between Lew Perkins , members of the University and a very capable lawfirm that they have on retainer. They also have a liability insurance policy that may or may not get involved here. First, they will go over all of the information they have developed thus far to determine where the University is as far as firing under the contractual agreement. In the meantime, Mangino without a doubt has been talking to a lawyer for advise. He will want to know what his chances are? How much will his legal expense be?Some attorneys probably would not take his case. Some he may consider too expensive. Others may take it on a contingency basis where their fee would be 50% of any verdict or any settlement. I would not want him as a client. His personal appearance and vocal answers on a witness stand would be terrible. If he chose to file a lawsuit, in all probability, you will have a jury look favorably upon Kansas University who has a very good reputation and hires many people in the area.Many things will have to be considered by the Powere to Be at KU and their defense firm. They may want to settle out with him in some manner to keep things out of print. Only time will tell!!

thmdmph 5 years, 5 months ago

soobawls. WTF

'I've been shot at. These sissy has never been shot at by MM, so suck it up.' ????

What kind of an idiotic logic is it to say that because your a soldier, or MMA fighter, or Taliban, or whatever - that anything short of what you've experienced is fair game in the non-professional sports world.

This has got to be the most closed-minded argument ever.

ku_bringback_danny 5 years, 5 months ago

Turner Gill would be a good replacement if he has a link to Texas?

escaped_labrat 5 years, 5 months ago

uhhhhhh, did anyone else notice that his wrist was burned too? Is that normal for crawling on hot turf to use your wrists? I'm not buying it. Also, how are we to know this is really Kipp? I see a hand and a wrist and a KU hat, what are the chances of anyone not playing football for KU to have that!

How's this? Back in 2003, I saw Mark Mangino save a child from the path of an oncoming car. I'll send you a picture of the car and the kid so you can post it and do a write up on the KU website.

Scott Lippoldt 5 years, 5 months ago

Labrat, c'mon--give it up! Maybe that wasn't really KU playing against MU the other day... maybe there were stand-ins. Or maybe the game was just animation and not live. Wait, maybe there isn't really a University of Kansas? I mean, there are pictures, but what proof is that. Just because there are thousands of alums that have supposedly attended... I think it's all a hoax. C'mon, Labrat!

babyjay1 5 years, 5 months ago

My conclusion is that it won't matter how much comes out about MM, some people will defend him no matter what. I guess that's not surprising... but it's hard to believe there are that many people who don't see the difference between discipline & toughness vs abuse. So much of what is coming out is wrong and on so many levels.... These are BOYS who need to be taught to be men, which does not require mental or physical abuse. They are not soldiers and that comparison makes no sense to me. Don't try to explain it again - no matter what anyone says, it's not the same thing. The only good thing that can come of this at this point, is for MM to be fired this week and for KU to move on. Also, surprised by the people who don't understand why ex-players are just now coming out with their reports. I don't find this surprising. They didn't do it while they were playing for obvious reasons - further punishment, loss of scholarships and playing time, etc... Then, you leave the university and move on. Now that this has started, more players are coming forward because it's out there and once some came forward, more are and will be willing. This happens all around, it's not unusual. I'm not saying Lew didn't set the ball rolling but now that information is being put out there, how can you support MM's tactics???

buckleyhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

that is some type of jayhawk athlete at least...i'd recognize those bricks from the jayhawk towers anywhere...

temjay 5 years, 5 months ago

I love those people who say "If we had gone 7-0 in the conference Mangino's coaching style would never come into question."

Folks, let me remind you of something ...... regardless of coaching style, we DIDN'T go 7-0. There is no "if" involved here. The reality is we went 0-7.

Mangino is a terrific Big 12 non-conference coach. I'm thrilled he can beat the snot from the likes of Stephen F. Austin and Northern Colorado. But he is NOT a Big 12-caliber coach. His record proves that.

So, pat him on the back, wish him luck and let him and his staff go out the door in peace.

As far as a successor is concerned ......

If you check the end of season stats in the Big 12, you'll find that Texas -- with MCoy. Shipley, Newton et al -- is at the top in most offensive categories. And you'll find that pre-season nobody -- Texas A&M -- is right up there with them in those same categories.

Gee, it makes you wonder, doesn't it? Did their offensive coordinator, Nolan Cromwell, have anything to do with that?

Cromwell knows every phase of the game.

He runs a high-octane offense that ripped the Longhorns to shreds on Thanksgiving night.

He was an all-pro defensive back, a position that is so very important in this conference.

He was the special teams coach on a Seahawks team that went to the Super Bowl.

He has helped develop a recruiting base in Texas that helped vault A&M to unexpected heights in just two years.

And he had a great career as a quarterback and leader at KU, which surely would help in fundraising efforts for the stadium and any other projects. He played for a student base in the mid to late 70s, which is where most the Jayhawk alumni money is these days.

If he doesn't want the head-coaching job at KU, that's fine. But if Cromwell is not heavily in the mix for this position, Lew should be kicked in the ass and shown the same door that Mangino was.

Tommy Tuperville, Turner Gill, Skip Holtz, Randy Edsall, or Nolan Cromwell. To me, it's a no-brainer.

Let the wheat wave .....

Kent Wells 5 years, 5 months ago

Mangino wore black because it is slimming. Geez people.

jhokfan 5 years, 5 months ago

temjay:

I'd love to have the Ransom Rambler back in Lawrence but in spite of lots of experience, isn't he a bit thin when it comes to the higher echelon of coaching. I believe he was a special teams coach with Green Bay when they won a super bowl and was a receivers coach with Seattle when they went to a super bowl. As far as I know, this is his first year as a coordinator.

s6u6r6f 5 years, 5 months ago

As someone who was once whipped by a crowd while dragging a big heavy wooden T though rocky streets and then nailed to that same big wooden T while wearing a crappy rose bush sticker hat, I've just got to ask: what's with all the whining, you big I-don't-wanna-go-home-and-get-shot-with-my-alky-dad's-homies burn-the-other-hand-wringing cry babies? When I played high school football, our coaches used to make us chop off our fingers and eat them while they peeled the skin off our backs and made us roll around in salt. And everyone's fingers tasted terrible. And each of our coaches weighed over 1000 lbs; they were all later buried in piano cases. Then our whole team was sold to Pol Pot. Oh, the pain, the infamy. One more thing: Turner Gill. Rock Chalk.

KU96planningalum 5 years, 5 months ago

I haven't read every comment here, but does anyone else see through this? The picture of this guy's hand is indicative of a friction burn, but he is whining about how hot the turf was that day. 1) His complaints about the heat of the surface would lead to a heat burn; 2) If it was a heat burn, it likely was not due to bear crawls, because the skin is only in contact with a "hot" surface for a split second at at time; and 3) Kipp didn't weigh in, as required, which I'm assuming is a routine requirement; plus he admitted that he knew what the "typical" punishment was and was quite possibly ready to accept those consequences for breaking the rules. So I say "f..k him (Kipp)". If he would have done what he was supposed to do, Mangino wouldn't have disciplined him.

Look folks, this isn't ballet class for your three year old daughter...this is football. Kipps whining is a shining example of the wussification of America, and before long, we'll be watching flag football on fall Saturdays at Memorial Stadium.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

GoBig RedONE: you a pal of meatsauce or did you change your sign in and are meatsauce?

BTW leave our ShelleySue alone. She is part of Jayhawk nation and a loyal KU FB fan and defends our coach. I trust she is sincere in her opinions and entitled.

Some of us may disagree, yet respect fully her right to hold that position and we won't have your northern arse on her, she is KANSAS and we support each other when attacked by outsiders. Leave her be, she can defend coach if she wishes.

Go watch tape from '71 when you were good.

Her defender.

djhawk75 5 years, 5 months ago

Oh the agony of waiting for Lew to just get this over with and fire Mangino. What do we do in the meantime?

I guess we'll shamelessly speculate who the coach will be next year. I'm certainly not above that. Well, we know now that it's not going to be Patterson (he's signed on with TCU until 2016). And I don't think that Edsall would be very excited about taking over a mediocre Big XII program to get his teeth kicked in every week when he can keep his slightly better than mediocre Big East program and go to some bowl game every year. Turner Gill is not ready for prime time just yet. What has he accomplished in his short tenure, really? So that leaves...uh...somebody help me out here....

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

djhawk75 good idea who will be next coach, I have some new research on Nolan C.

but 1st, I reviewed the Missou tape and the broadcast at 2:59 into and out of commercial break show MM on the headset talking and directing instructions so he either called or was engaged in the audible pass play run 3 plays in 14 second fiasco. I wanted to study the tape to see what if anything could have been different, it still hurts.I would rather beat MU than go to a bowl game.

Nolan Cromwell: Big 12 Showcase, for you with cable TV, reviewed the AM TU game and displayed a brilliant offensive effort from A&M. The co/oridnator Nolan Cromwell displayed an offense every bit as good as KU in our best games. This weekly show runs several times this week, catch it or tape it if you can. Nolan coming up several notches in my book. A&M Defense lost to Texas, not the offense.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

I don't think I have ever defended abuse. If you go back and look, I have said that none of us know the truth but if some of the things turn out to be true, they are wrong and need to be addressed. I also said that these types of things happen at other schools (not the burns specifically) and that if we crucify one coach over these types of actions, we need to take a hard look at what goes on as a whole. My main defense and what I have answered most to has been to those who claim repeatedly that MM has done absolutely nothing good for KU. He has done A LOT for KU and that is not an opinion, it's a fact. Look at our facilities, the improved academic performance of the football team, a full stadium every Saturday, strong support at Arrowhead despite the season, game day atmosphere, KU football getting national recognition, NFL players, players nominated and receiving awards, BCS bowl ... you just can't honestly say he's done nothing.

I don't condone abuse or violence. I honestly have not defended him, I have just refused to attack him because I don't know the facts. All I know is that some players claim abuse. Some claim he's done a lot for them and changed their lives. So are the stories of abuse true or not? Are they exaggerated? Do we concentrate on the negative or thank him for all the good he's done (LJW said that for every one tale of abuse there have been several to the contrary). None of us know. I just have to trust that those investigating are making sure they find out all the truths before making the decision and when it's done I will respect it.

lighthawk - wow you're my defender. What can I say?

vc727 5 years, 5 months ago

I could only read a portion of the discussion before saying something.

What it comes down to is times change and humanity advances.

Not everyone wants to advance with it. We have learned that there are ways to get the most out of men without physical and mental abuse. Does that mean that the old tactics don't work No but why would you use them if you don't have to. The simple answer is because you are either too lazy to develop the skills needed or just don't have the ability.

If you ever saw the movie the junction boys about Bear Bryants first year at Texas A&M you can see what I am talking about. That first year he was an abusive and destructive coach. Was he succesful? yes but over time he realized that there were better ways and proved to be even more succesful.

I have no football experience but I did have the wonderful personal experience of completing the first 4 weeks of Basic Military training twice. My fisrt 4 weeks was with a Drill Instructor who lead by fear. Everything we did was just to keep him from exploding and punishing us. The barracks were clean we learned our lessons and hated his guts and only did exactly what was asked of us. Due to an injury I spent 9 days in the Hospital and had to start over. The second Drill instructor yelled and screamed just as loud as any, but he had people skills that were missing in the first. My respect for him motivated me much more than my fear of the first and I finished top of my class. We went above and beyond for him.

I can see it in all the posts about "This is football not soccer" yes, football coaches like drill instructors are tough and should be. The difference is humanity. Take the time to learn the skills. It will pay off in the long run.

Dennis Mahorney 5 years, 5 months ago

The Nebraska Cornhusker media guide says, the N on the cornhusker helmets stand for "knowledge".

John Percival 5 years, 5 months ago

If we would have had natural grass all along, as we should have... Maybe somebody could sue the turf manufacturer. Jackie Childs?? Who told you to put the balm on?
For those who don't think Edsall will be Lew'$ top choice don't know him very well. MM - you're getting harder to defend.

cstewa04 5 years, 5 months ago

RUMORS: Anyone heard that Jim Harbaugh was in KC yesterday recuiting? Hmmmm

Wonder if he didn't have a quick sit-down with Lew?

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Lew, Mark isn't letting go of the helm, time to back door release another incident, feed us so the tide of public opinion can continue to find true center and you are able to reduce the buy out. Goodbye funds for Mark are monies we can't invest in the newbie.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

4pm today ends the madness.

can we pls see the report first..some of us are still undecided : ')

jhokfan 5 years, 5 months ago

Can't see Harbaugh coming to KU. Lateral move at best and given what he has done at Stanford I think he is in line for either a big raise or a promotion to a big time program.

MitchumMan 5 years, 5 months ago

"There could be a resolution to Mark Mangino’s situation at Kansas soon, with an announcement on his future possibly coming Thursday.

Early speculation on a replacement has centered around former Tennessee coach Phillip Fulmer, UConn coach Randy Edsall and Southern Miss coach Larry Fedora."

How awesome would it be if we could somehow get Fulmer here at KU? Talk about one of the best recruiting head coaches ever! He's talked about wanting to get back into coaching college ball again, but I think he wanted to stay in the SEC. Either way, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

tcco007 5 years, 5 months ago

I don't know if KU has found their required evidence. I suspect that they will end up announcing a "reassignment" of Mangino, blame media speculation for the move, and then announce a coaching search.

Mangino's reassignment would allow him to find a new coaching position elsewhere and then KU could move forward with keeping the recruiting class in order until they get a new coach.

Aside from Fulmer, I would suggest looking at Charlie Black the offensive coordinator at Florida. He would have connections in areas with 4 and 5 star level recruits in place and be able to supplement that with Texas, Oklahoma, etc. connections in place from prior coaches and players.

Prophet 5 years, 5 months ago

Anybody have information on the AD's conference at 4PM today. Agenda, Where, and How (TV, radio, and etc.)

Cody Stumma 5 years, 5 months ago

I'm not buying this.

Why the heck would this player wait UNTIL NOW? Is it because Kansas is on a 7-game losing streak? Well, Kansas wasn't good pre-2007, so that theory is thrown out the window. Is it because he would lose his scholarship money? If you were really mis-treated, you could sue and be paid through college that way. Something isn't adding up...

coolhand357 5 years, 5 months ago

Yep, the documented "pictures" above prove beyond a shodow of a doubt that this is indeed Cory Kipp's hand. Further proof is by the existance of a Jayhawk cap on the table. What more evidence is needed? Thank you Cory, for having the clarity of mind to document these astounding facts back in '03. And what luck that you just so happened to hold on to the pictures just in case such a situation should arise. Oh, one more thing Cory. Next time you "document" with pictures, you might want to lose the Celine Dion CD on the table. You never know. Someone may gather the impression that you may be "light on your feet".

s6u6r6f 5 years, 5 months ago

Coolhand...how could you even tell it was Celine Dion? Did you recognize the cover?

coolhand357 5 years, 5 months ago

Click on the 2nd picture of hand which enlarges it. sammyr2 noticed it and commented, so I looked it up on Amazon. Sure 'nuff. Celine Dion.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

I don't condone abuse and if Mangino is guilty of everything he is accused of, it's probably time to look at a different coach. But honestly if true, I will be more upset about some of the things he said than the injury shown here. This hand looks like it hurt to all hell but it doesn't look anywhere near as bad as I imagined from reading the article.

I got injuries this bad just playing neighborhood sports as a kid - knocked out by a line drive to the eye, dislocated thumb playing football, stitched up lip jumping off of something, knee injury that looked similar to this after wiping out in sand while bike racing. So this particular injury doesn't seem that bad to me. Of all the things MM is being accused of, this is not what upsets me the most.

But again I say people - I do not condone abuse or violence whether it's MM or some other coach.

jhokfan 5 years, 5 months ago

I don’t condone Celine Dion. She should be allowed to sing but I can’t condone it. Mariah Carey should be banned. I don’t care what the constitution says, she should not be allowed to sing in public.

coolhand357 5 years, 5 months ago

Both Mariah Carey AND Britney Spears. Wait...Britney Spears doesn't actually sing in public, she lip-syncs. Thats the equivalent of watching Carlos Santana play air guitar.

GoBigRed1 5 years, 5 months ago

I still cannot believe that ya'll are mocking your own players for how FatMan treated them. I'm sure you think waterboarding POW's is fine as well.

By the way, you can't use our own jokes and think that you are mocking us. The "Knowledge" joke is my favorite.

BWA HAA HAA

GO BIG RED

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