Tuesday, August 4, 2009

Reed leads KU hoops weight exploits

Kansas defenders Mario Little, left, and Tyrel Reed look to trap Missouri guard Marcus Denmon during the second half Sunday, March 1, 2009 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas defenders Mario Little, left, and Tyrel Reed look to trap Missouri guard Marcus Denmon during the second half Sunday, March 1, 2009 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Nobody is ever going to call Tyrel Reed an 184-pound weakling.

“I think it’s incredible a men’s basketball player who weighs 184 pounds is able to hang-clean 308 pounds. I think that’s a pretty impressive feat,” said KU hoops strength coach Andrea Hudy.

“It happens in football all the time (but not basketball),” she added of somebody that size pumping so many pounds in the solid barbell exercise.

Reed at times stole the show during the Jayhawks’ two, four-week sessions of voluntary strength and conditioning workouts.

His hang clean was the best on the team, ahead of the Morris twins, Cole Aldrich, Brady Morningstar, Travis Releford and Conner Teahan, who came close to 300 pounds.

Reed also completed a whopping 40 pullups on the bar, ahead of junior guard Teahan, a former high school football standout who had over 30.

“I don’t have to say much to Tyrel. He’s self-motivated,” said Hudy, KU’s sixth-year assistant athletic director/sports performance.

Hudy reports that the entire roster of Jayhawks had productive summers working out.

“We had a pretty consistent, successful summer in terms of the weight guys were throwing around, squatting and benching. Our consistency in the weight room was really an advantage to where we are trying to go,” Hudy said.

Freshman forward Thomas Robinson, who was listed at 6-foot-8, 220 pounds upon his early-June arrival from his hometown of Washington, D.C., now weighs 233.

“If you ask Thomas, he’s a horse. He’s a self-proclaimed horse,” Hudy said, laughing. “He is very gifted. His best advantage is his work ethic. His physique is great. He has long arms. He looks great.

“It’s impressive for somebody to put on 13 pounds in eight weeks when he’s continuing to run, play (pickup games) and do conditioning work as well. He’s competitive, and it shows.”

Freshman transfer Jeff Withey, who likely will be listed as 7-foot on KU’s 2009-10 roster, is about 228 pounds, up from 212 when he first arrived at KU last January.

Withey, who started his career at the University of Arizona, has loaded up on Gatorade/nutritional shakes this summer, as have teammates Aldrich, Morningstar, Releford, Robinson, Tyshawn Taylor, Elijah Johnson and the Morris twins.

“He has to eat all the time,” Hudy said of Withey. “I’d meet him for breakfast at 7 or 9 a.m. before class at the Burge (Union). He’d eat either an omelet or a burrito omelet. We’d follow up on what he was having for lunch and dinner. He’d get at least two shakes a day. He does what we ask him to do.”

The Morris twins — 6-8 Marcus and 6-9 Markieff — have been “two of our most consistent guys,” Hudy said.

Marcus is about 232 pounds, up from a low of 210 last season and Markieff at 242, up from his low of 215.

“I think the twins went through the season and realized how much stronger they could be and needed to be in the Big 12,” Hudy said. “They took it seriously as a goal to put on weight and muscle, to get stronger and become more powerful. There was a point last season we were hitting critical values in a negative area. The season is long. It’s hard. There’s a lot of energy expenditure. They realize eating is a primary goal for them. Since they’ve done that, they’ve seen positive results.”

KU sophomore Releford also has had a significant weight gain. The 6-foot-5 Kansas Citian is at 210 pounds, up from 192.

“He realized he needed to put on some weight as well. The learning curve from their freshman to sophomore year is one of the biggest,” Hudy said.

Summarizing the summer, Hudy said: “We are pretty athletic this year. Their work ethic doesn’t amaze me. When they are at Kansas, there is an expectation. When they want to come to Kansas, we need them to play like Kansas players do. They take pride in their work. They want to get better.”


Scott MacWilliams 11 years, 2 months ago

Sounds like the guys have been doing their work, and it's paying off in more muscle all around. I'm looking forward to seeing this crew put it all together on the hardwood.

i just hope that if they do start the season #1, they go ahead and lose one and get that monkey off their back. I always feel better when they are a little underrated, seems like it's easier to sneak up on folks...

But what the hell, they're the Jayhawks, they're always going to get everybody's 'A' game. Be sure to eat some extra burritos for the second half! ROCK CHALK!!!

Tribehawk 11 years, 2 months ago

"...Their work ethic doesn’t amaze me. When they are at Kansas, there is an expectation. When they want to come to Kansas, we need them to play like Kansas players do."

Great quote. KU doesn't set a standard... we ARE the standard.

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

there is a down side.... perhaps she didn't mean it that way.... but it's a dig at our kids too....

Their work ethic doesn't amaze her ? yet, she has nothing but flattery for them ..... perhaps it's certain players who have not been working as hard as others.... particularly more notable ones...... who are fringe NBA players.....

Hmm ...maybe im reading too much in.

Dirk Medema 11 years, 2 months ago

waywardJay - The certain "fringe" NBA player has had entire articles devoted to the coaching staff telling him to completely shut it down after the season, and the resulting weight gain followed by his resuming workouts and dropping most of the excess in the following month. The certain "fringe" NBA player will be just fine for us this year, and will once again lead us to many victories.

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

Dagger... I totally concur... i was being tongue in cheek.... Im a big proponent of said player, however.... i wonder if there wasn't something in what she was saying.... it seemed a little weird don't you agree ?

yates33333 11 years, 2 months ago

Maybe if we do not win the NCAA basketball championship, a slight maybe, we can win the NCAA weight lifting crown.

fansincewilt 11 years, 2 months ago

The expectations are so high. Physically, we are going to be tough. However, one mental breakdown in the big game can end it all. Just ask the "Fab Five" of the Wolverines. I wonder if we are mentally tough enough. I know coach knows the importance of mental toughness. I wonder what the guys do to get to that mentally tough point. Another example of a letdown was the Memphis Tigers just a couple of years ago. When Mario hit that shot, it was over. They were done. They had plenty good enough players. However, they didn't have the mental toughness to come back from that disappointing end of regulation. Our boys were the ones that were tough enough. They never gave up even when it seemed there was no hope. That was an amazing game. I still live it. If these guys give us another ride like that one,... what can you say?

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

fansincewile - there's only one thing you can say.

Thank You, Add a Rock Chalk Champions and there is nothing else.

I do think that memphis's toughness was personified with Joey Dorsey..... and he fouled out with 2 minutes in regulation.... Plenty of players, but no grit.... CDR, Rose, Taggartt, Anderson.... great players but none with Dorsey's ....... intestinal fortitude.... I really do think that was the begining of the end for them..... not only did it take him out of the game it got mario shooting free throws... and you know what happens when a clutch shooter gets free looks.... he tends to find the range....

As for Toughness..... Think of the Journies of some of our "lesser gods"- Mario Little's academic ineligibility that forced him out to a JUCO, and then his ressurgence at kansas hampered by mulitple injuries..... OR, CJ Henry's First choice of Careers going out like a campfire in a soft rain storm..... Or Withey's Commitment to "zona under the knowldge he was getting lute and then Lute..... scooted..... OR those who still think Brady doesn't Belong......those who ignore Tyrel's 308..... Morris squared thinking lawrence was going to be their dunking grounds on the way to the NBA in 1 season.... having to fight fan scorn for shooting some lady in the toucas, the bumped official....

Sherron's arbitrary weight concerns and lack of NBA street cred because he's 3-4 inches short, Cole's escpaing Blake Griffin's shadow, even after he turned Hansborough into the softest "PSYCHO" player since Latrell Sprewell got found out. Or tyshawn's sitch with marquette .... You know, where he was going to take over the point when Dominic James went pro but dominic came back which left Taylor without a team.... until Kansas Opened up Mario's schollie..... Or what about the heaploads of Press one Xavier Henry has, to prove he can be a catalyst on a TEAM first unit..... especially considering about 65 percent of that teams fans are convinced coming in he's more Giddens than Rush......

Moxie we have plenty..... It's cohesion we need.... we need Self to sit them in a room and get these kids bonding.....

Andy Hess 11 years, 2 months ago

Taylor left Marquette because Tom Crean went to Indiana. It had nothing to do with Dominic James.

FlaHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

I am more interested in how Collins weight is dropping?

You got to wonder how this will effect his NBA draft potential. If Collins has not learned to control his wieght year round in college, the NBA season will give him plenty of opportunity to back on the pounds!

I feel that this will limit his draft stock and off-set his potential value to an NBA franchise.

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

Swish- Crean's assistant buzz Williams took over at Marquette..... I was living in the area at the time..... Tyshawn woulda honored his commitment had Dominic not gone pro.

Joe Baker 11 years, 2 months ago

Collins is fine! Let HCBS worry about that issue.

From Boyz to Men...Can you imagine when other teams see the obvious size of these guys this coming season? Crap they're going to be beasts!!

Keep up the good work guys it will all pay off!!


waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

if these numbers come to bear.... we could be starting a 260 cole, and a 250 pound marcus..... with 260 markieff, 240 Withey and 240 robinson backing them up.....that's just under 1,300 pounds of of fouls coming at any front line.....

And if we manage to foul all of them out... w play mario little as the center, with X, Sherron Tyshawn and Ej and play a 5 guard line up..... with Brady,Travis, tyrel Cj and Connor off the bench..... the sheer nastiness of this line up on paper just makes me chuckle..... It's like a Hocky team.....

Gretzky line- Sherron Xavier Brady

Messier Line Tyshawn Tyrel Cj

Anderson Line EJ Travis Mario / Connor

Defense 1 Aldrich Marcus Morris

Defense 2 Withey Markieff

Spot defender T Robinson

Goon Line- Buford Connor Stu Grimson

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

} Tyrel leading the team in weight lifting? This is even stranger than him being the fastest guy in the wind sprints. Tyrel is putting himself in very good physical shape to contest for minutes.

} One thing I learned, even back in the dark ages when I played, is that weight lifting can massively increase shooting range...if you have a good touch to begin with. If you don't, it merely increases the range you can miss from. :-)

The great news is that KU has two very good shooters in Tyrel and Brady that Hudy is saying are waaaaaaaaaay stronger than last year. This means the accurate trifectation range has probably jumped 2-3 feet. These guys are going to be able to stretch the hell out of zones this year, and that will really open it up for Cole and Sherron and Tyshawn and whomever else rises to the top in the getting-to-the-rim club.

} The Twins, up 20 pounds a piece, are going to be running around kicking gluteous maximuses and taking nombres later with that extra weight. Just hope Hudy found and developed their springs.

} Robinson gains 12 pounds of muscle in only 8 weeks? Better buy some backup back boards. This guy could be breaking a few before he's done.

} KU is going to look like Michigan State out there on the court this year.

} No more Mr. Nice Jayhawk.

KGphoto 11 years, 2 months ago

Amen waywardJay.

I'm seeing it too. And the source of the mental toughness is pure. It's proven now. We're seeing some of the toughest Kansas teams to ever lace it up.

Self has found his market. He's gapped the OAD mentality that's plagued almost every other team. He's instilled the midwestern fortitude into the locker room. Each and every player realizes, in their own way, what hard work turns into.

Sik'em Tyrel.

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

I stand corrected........ I just did some research and Found that Stu Grimson cannot walk onto Ku because he's on Kentucky's Coaching staff with Rod Strickland, Bill laimbeer and Darth Vader.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

Yo, Andrea, I almost forgot. How much did Jordan Juenemann add? He was at 195 last year. Is he packing 215 now, too?

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago


I think I have learned from about 6 years of fire we can be pretty damned rugged..... think of the soft metality Self's first team had, the turmoil with roy, their inability to adapt to Selfball....Jr Giddens, Padgett.....then look at the championship hawks.... each year they were that much more HARD in the clutch.... Even last year, I think we were mentally tougher ( considering the losses ) ..... If we need someone to buoy us for stretches we have Cole.... but i expect this team to be NAILS come conference time.

Andy Hess 11 years, 2 months ago

so i guess the quote from Tyshawn was BS, about how he felt betrayed after Crean left and that's why he was leaving Marquette? but you lived there. you would know better than Tyshawn himself.

quigley 11 years, 2 months ago

NJJAYHAWK: Thanks for the early morning laugh!!!

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

Swish betrayal does not mean he would have made a different choice. Considering the options at the time, there there were no other schools out there looking and James had not gone pro yet.... When Mario Stayed in and Dominic Opted out, that made the decision clear to Tyshawn....

I seem to recall Miles, Langford and Simien all feeling betrayal when Roy left, No one offered them a better oppurtunity with no penalty to leave..... things might have been very different had they not already played 2 years at Kansas..... What i Know of tyshawn, he seems like a person of integrity.... He wants to run the Point of a national Championship level contender.... Anyone who watched Marquette last year saw the GLARING hole they had without Tyshawn, especially after James Broke his Foot..... Marquette was close to that for most of the year last year, and it's arguable he might have made a bigger impact on Marquette than Kansas last year......

That being said, Im glad he's here. I stil Maintain from what i heard in the press up there, it was more impact than it was Crean.... and notice no one's giving Crean that " i'm here for YOU !!!!!!" treatment at Indiana.... most notably Jordan Crawford......

I believe him when He says it bothered him that he left, but let's face facts.... If Marquette could have offered him the same starting minutes last year, he's not necessarily a Jayhawk now..... More oppurtunity to play near his home, he's more famaliar with the Big east ballers, and he signed a LOI there for a reason.... Marquette had ALOT of talent there in Place. i wouldn't begrudge him for that, either. it's a business decision in alot of ways.... whether it makes him money or not.

He's getting the better end of the deal here in Kansas in the long run, don't you agree ????

NebraskaJayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Wow...It really just goes to show that competition for playing time really improves your team. That's the way I am looking at this. These guys know that in order to play this year, they are going to have to improve in all areas and it sounds like they are doing just that. I can't wait to see this team when the season starts. Anything less than a national championship will disappoint this team and it's following.

Beak 11 years, 2 months ago

I agree, but from the add she's "EBONY" in my book.

labbadabba 11 years, 2 months ago

Football. Season. No basketball fluff pieces allowed 2 days before training camp.

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

Flip the script on ya swishy, take the fandom out of it.....

Your Tyshawn Taylor.....

Your options are Marquette ( where all signs point to James going pro ), Virginia Tech where your a back up point guard for a year, Florida where you didn't even make a visit, or Georgia tech where your again a backup for a year.....

With Tyshawn's skill set, you would be crazy not to choose Marquette.....

Until..... Dominic James says..... Ehhhh i wanna play college one more year..... Now your a backup for a year no matter where you go, except for Flrodai who doesn't look like they are accumulating ALOT of talent, and what talent they are getting is going early in the draft......

At least you still get to play with James, Macneal, Hayward and Matthews for 1 year.... maybe they get a Big man coming in after the seniors graduate..... by far the BEST team of the teams tat recruited him to that point..... UNTIL

Chalmers stays in the draft for the defending champs, who may not have even been on your radar .... but certainly have the street cred..... having just won the title..... Hey, let's go Check them out....... April 28th 2008

Mind you It's firmly in Print on Espn on may 1st that Dominic James is back and out of the draft..... Conicidence, I think not.

If only i can find the smoking gun here..... Ahhh there it is.....

april 10th 2008.... 18 days before the visit to Kansas.....

The day BEFORE April 9th, Tyshawn after asking for his LOI 8 days previous..... he meets with NEW COACH Buzz Williams..... Buzz tells him... look we love ya but we are getting dominic back , we can't offer you the minutes this year.... Will you back him up for a year..... Im sorry Tyshawn, good luck....

Tyshawn Most definetely would have stayed had Dominic not gone pro. Don't think it's not hurting Buzz right now, either.

Larry Smith 11 years, 2 months ago


I think swish may be more on the right track as far as why Tyshawn asked out of his loi. Seems to be all about the coaching change.

"St. Anthony coach Bob Hurley said he plans to ask Marquette to release senior guard Tyshawn Taylor from his Letter of Intent now that Tom Crean is set to take over the Indiana job.

"I would like the opportunity to have him released from his scholarship in the event that we don't like who's hired," Hurley said Tuesday night after his team was honored at the 76ers-Nets game for winning the New Jersey Tournament of Champions."

Another quote

"Hurley said Taylor was understandably "confused" about the situation with Marquette, and that Taylor had initially chosen Marquette because of Crean.

"Yes, he liked the school but there's no doubt that the decision was based on Tom Crean," Hurley said."

Again, It sounds like swish is right on.

It's ok to be wrong sometimes.

Larry Smith 11 years, 2 months ago

Another quote from a Coach Hurley interview

""It's unacceptable but it's one of the things wrong with college basketball, that they would hold a kid for this long when there' s such uncertainty."

Marquette assistant Buzz Williams has been mentioned as a possible successor to Tom Crean, who took the Indiana job, but Hurley said that that might not be enough to keep Taylor.

"No disrespect but that (Buzz Williams) was not the reason why this kid went to Marquette," Hurley said.

Swish, your case is getting stronger

rockchalkjayhawk4ku11 11 years, 2 months ago

Tyrel has always impressed me, and I can't wait to watch him next year. As well as all the other guys. One thing I NEED to see next year is Teahan MAKING SOME THREES! I miss that from his freshmen year...

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

OK..... Timeline

April 1, 2008 - tyshawn askes for realease from letter of intent.... April 9, 2008 - Tyshawn goes to Marquette to discuss the program with NEW COACH BUzz Williams.... april 10, 2008 - Dominic James officially removes his name from the draft. April 14th 2008- Taylor and Bobby Hurley BOTH meet with Buzz Williams about Marquette. April 23rd, 2008 Mario CHalmers declares for NBA draft April 28th- Tyshawn Taylor visits Kansas and verbals commits ( cannot sign a LOI because he had his 1 at Marquette ).....

Why would Tyshawn have two seperate meetings to discuss Marquette basketball, if he were decided COMPLETELY against Marquette Basketball......

The timeline is clearly displayed on Rivals.... look it up for yourselves.... Matches everything i heard then... and know now....

Dominic James stays in the the NBA draft 2008.... Tyshawn taylor is 90 percent a Marquette Golden Eagle... I do not discount he was spurned by Crean..> but clearly not enough to AVOID meeting with Marquette's INCOMING COACH about Marquette basketball.... Did I fail to mention they promoted Buzz Williams From within, he was one of tom crean's assistants !!!!!.... It's amazing how many people downplay that this kid wanted MINUTES... and knew he was capable of playing at that level.....

It's their loss, It's our gain.... but despite the fact Taylor said he was spurned... that was not his only motivating factor..... it clearly viewed by this timeline is not even his MAJOR factor...... he wanted to play a starters role.... and Buzz couldn't give him that... So when Mario's spot came free... he choose to go to Us....

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

Correction.... Kansas visit was april 25th ( 2 days after Mario said Cee-ya ! ) and he commited april 28.....

KGphoto 11 years, 2 months ago

Thank you rockalkjayhawk4ku11, for coming up with the longest username in the history of this website. And for remembering that this is an article about Tyrel and not Tyshawn.

Tyrel... is.. a.. Kansas.. Stud!!

Whad'ya think Xavier is putting up? I bet it ain't 300!

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

Another Correction- Goes to Marquette april 9th... stays through that friday the 11th.... with Hurley and discusses Marquette basketball....... with Buzz Williams... It was an extended multi day meeting..... that happened to coincide with the april 10th announcement of Dominic James coming back..... and Taylor decides april 14th to reopen his recruitment ocmpletely......

it's all about minutes, but tyshawns a Professional type kid...and didn't want it to BE about minutes.... because he was taught right byt Bobby Hurley.....

Larry Smith 11 years, 2 months ago


Why is it so hard for you to take into account what both Coach Hurley and Tyshawn himself said. Tyshawn commited because of Coach Crean. Coach Crean left and it swayed his decision. Did he visit with Buzz? Yes, because thats what good kids do. He gave Buzz the opportunity to sell him on his program, and he could not.

How does this quote not show you the light?

"Marquette assistant Buzz Williams has been mentioned as a possible successor to Tom Crean, who took the Indiana job, but Hurley said that that might not be enough to keep Taylor.

"No disrespect but that (Buzz Williams) was not the reason why this kid went to Marquette," Hurley said.

Can It get any more plain than that. Regardless of the timeline.

You can speculate all you want, but I will take Coach Hurley and Tyshawn at their words. Coach Crean left, so Tyshawn did as well.

btw, TT was not the only player that asked for his realease. I believe other players that were on the team, as well as recruits asked for tranfers as well. Did all of them hinge on the Dominc James decision as well? I think that just as TT, they only commited to play for Coach Crean. Once he was gone, so were they.

Joe Baker 11 years, 2 months ago

jaybate (anonymous) says... Robinson gains 12 pounds of muscle in only 8 weeks? Better buy some backup back boards. This guy could be breaking a few before he's done.

Review this kid's highlight videos...he is awesome. Just think what he will do now!! His footwork, ball skills and intelligence is amazing!!

labbadabba (anonymous) says... Football. Season. No basketball fluff pieces allowed 2 days before training camp.

This is a b-ball story!! We are all waiting on football and looking forward to an outstanding year. It's all good...

Joe Baker 11 years, 2 months ago

Don't forget Elijah!! I can't wait...These guys are backups to starters!!

This kid can fly for his size.


Rivethead 11 years, 2 months ago

Yes, thank God KU hired Andrea Hudy. Now Coach Dawson can quit wasting his precious time on basketball players.

Labbadabba......we're still a basketball school. Didn't you get the memo?

Joe Baker 11 years, 2 months ago

Withey will own the paint. He has benefited so much with Cole and will get to play a year before Cole leaves. This kid will be dominate. Dang he rules the paint!!

We will rock this year and the next 2-3 years folks!! I'm stoked!!

kvskubball 11 years, 2 months ago

Sounds like most of the team is getting physical. That will be good news for the team.

I'm with the earlier poster who questioned what they are doing for mental toughness. In the MSU tourney game, we were playing great for about 10 minutes before half-time, and then went thud in the second half. I don't think the second half flops in the MSU gameS and the other games we were leading but lost the lead in, and lost the game were due to being physically challenged. It seemed to be mental, a lack of confidence seemed to be evident in the supporting cast in the tournament game against MSU. Seemed like everyone except Sherron and Cole couldn't or wouldn't shoot the rock.

Good work Tyrel, and the rest of the Rock-hard, Rock-Chalking Jayhawks!

Oh, as an aside...There was some chat about Sherron being the Best-ever or GOAT KU guard earlier this summer...

If you can, go back and watch the MSU tourney game. I recorded the game and watched the first half recently. Then anyone who watches the first part of the first half and still thinks that Sherron is the best KU guard ever....needs to re-evaluate. Yes he is very good, and yes, he kept us a-float in the second half, but in the beginning of the game he was pretty mediocre. I think he has the potential to be one of the best ever, but the inconsistency he showed in that game is why I can't give him the G-O-A-T KU guard, just yet.

The great thing for Sherron is that he has another year to raise his game! I think he will. He should be much more confident in his teammates this year. That should help him play at a higher level, reducing some of the pressure he felt last year. He should be really hungry because this is his last college doughnut (pun intended). If he's at his best, we'll be very good indeed.

I agree with the earlier posters who were chatting about Sherron, but playing coy by not mentioning his name....He's only got one more go around to impress the NBA scouts. Winning will definitely help. Him playing great will help. But the fact that he has gained bad weight in the off-season each year while at KU (for whatever reason) will be a negative. Add that to his height, and Sherron's glass is most likely only half full in the eyes of NBA scouts. If he leads the KU team to a great season, then he will be the toast of KU fans, his glass will be full of his favorite drink at the end of the year, and he'll get drafted by an NBA team too. Sounds like a solid recipe!

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago


Oh, no! Tell me Laimbeer is not really on their staff!!!!! This means UK is going to have the dirtiest, most annoying bigs in the country!!!!!!

Joe Baker 11 years, 2 months ago

kvskubball (anonymous) says... anyone who watches the first part of the first half and still thinks that Sherron is the best KU guard ever....needs to re-evaluate.

kvskubball- I understand your point about that one game. I too have reviewed that game and painfully it wasn't a good game for the hawks at all, obviously!! Most of your post is close to the truth. You tend to negate your point though about Collins; either he is or isn't!! I don't think you're trashing him, but to say this for one lousy game where the entire team collapsed is a little harsh. Collins is a proven leader. He was and is the most consistent player on the team.

I think you'll see a refined and focused Collins. You're right, the need to place the team on his shoulders will not be there for most of the season. He will be more selective and stategic with his play. I watched Sherron miss a huge three in that MSU game and watched him glide through the lane passing the ball to Cole, only to throw it away. I really didn't see more than that throughout the game. Collins was money most of the game. I saw Brady and Reed take a poop during that second half. My biggest overall disappoint was Brady. BTW, wasn't Sherron Chevrolet's Player of the Game that game w/ 20 or 23 points? But, it made me sick and mad at the same time.

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

Wha ? Jaybate ? You mean to tell me they weren't heading there already ???? The sad thing is.... 1 of those 4 is ACTUALLY COaching at Kentucky. Multiple DUI's, Trainwreck in the Locker Room. Selfish Me first Player. Never won a championship.

Right. and They cannot choke people with a menacing stare ( though latrell is down with learning that noise ).....

Michigan State 2 wasn't about us not being mentally tough.... it was our back breaking..... we rode Collins and aldrich to a point where they could carry us no more and let's face it.... on that day the better team won.... just like in East Lansing,.... im convince we are better off for it... because pain and hunger are great motivators.....

Jayhawk86, Why can you see past the words and read their ACTIONS ??? Bill self say that Cole aldrich has a stress "reaction" in his foot and we read in between the lines and know Cole's hurt..... Coaches don't always tell you EVERYTHING, Especially good coaches..... All Im saying..... If you don't want to go to a school, and you are so riffed about the former coach leaving, Why meet the INCOMING coach TWICE over a span of 2 days whom you have your LOI ( no one blocks a LOI release because it's recruiting suicide )release from.... Because you still wanna go there if the minutes are there, because nowhere else you WANT TO PLAY has that freedom.... Everyone's schollied up at that point with the except of people who jump LATE..... The Buzz picks..... Like Mario who seems to have jumped at the right time........ It's fine to believe just their words if all they are doing is talking but there is CLEARLY ACTION behind the scene that you are ignoring..... From someone who heard directly of this action, at the time it was going on.... they reported on this every night on the news, they thought of him as the Next dwayne wade..... Is it so Impossible that im right on this one when most of the evidence agrees with me ??? The only thing that goes against me is the word of coach speak point guard and the word of a Coachspeak Coach who are willing to say about 25% of what is actually going down.

I had a long talk with a Marquette alum about this one, and he was definetely upset about losing tyshawn, he said you have no idea what your getting yet.... you will though..... he was not surprised about rec game where he put up 47 points and 17 rebounds....... he was not surprised when tyshawn turned out to be the best guard on our floor at points last year....... Ty was a big boon for us. Bill's recruiting secretts seem to be the late bloomers, the people who show up much MUCH later on..... So far his late recruits....

Brandon Rush Tyshawn Taylor Xavier Henry CJ Henry ( have to throw him in because it was a 2-1 Deal..... and i expect him to play too )

We know Brandon's legacy, we are starting to see major fruits of what kind of game Tyshawn's going to have, and im convinced that by december we are going to see Xavier becoming a dynamic force......

Annette Lee 11 years, 2 months ago

I watched the MSU tourney game again and I noticed Cole didn't have his A game because he was hurt.. it was not Sherron's A game either.. but Tyrel was flying around and showed the mental toughness that we've been talking about..and Brady looked good the first half and the twins did some nice things.. I guess my point is that they were more balanced in that game.. which is why I think Cole and Sherron opted to return for another run at the NC..

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

monterey... Im convinced the toughness is there... I just think we maxed out last year with what we had at that time,.

Jonathan Allison 11 years, 2 months ago


You're forgetting another of Coach Self's late additions in Darrell Arthur. And you can almost count Jeff Withey in the same group because of the circumstances of his leaving the Arizona program. Though we've yet to see what he can do.

Joe Baker 11 years, 2 months ago

I saw two guys step up when needed: Reed and Taylor. I think Reed will do great things this year and Taylor will be our next point guard after Collins, if he doesn't opt for the NBA. I saw Reed drill a huge three and Taylor tied this same MSU game in the tourney at the stripe, twice. I didn't see Brady do much during the last of the first and all the second. But, they will all use that last game as a learning tool. It seems they all realize where they need to improve individually. I think the "team" idea is there, they just need to be a little more selfish. I know that sounds wild, but it's true. They all need to know when step up during a game.

kvskubball 11 years, 2 months ago


If you have a chance to watch the game, one example of him not being 'with-it' happened before the tip-off. He was lining up at the wrong end of the court and would not be defending the opponent's basket. One of the other KU players said something to him and he changed ends....The first 8-10 minutes weren't Sherron's finest either...

The MSU game was a microcosm of a constancy. Sherron was inconsistent, sometimes, even often super, sometimes only serviceable. Those that think he is the greatest ever tend to ignore or down-play the parts of his game that need work or where he has limitations (His height, for example, is seen as a draw-back by pro scouts), or the times or parts of games where he wasn't all-that. Most of the time it was through trying too hard, which is better than disappearing, like Tyrel, Brady, and others did in the second half of the MSU game. When Sherron is on, he definitely qualifies for consideration as GOAT KU guard. As a Junior, he still exhibited too much off-time, IMO. I'm hoping that was because so much of his energy was spent trying to carry the team. If that was the case, he and KU are in great shape, because, as you say, he won't need to carry so much of the load this year.

I like math, so I'll use some numbers to explain my thoughts on Sherron. The numbers aren't meant to be exact, only to give emphasis. I would say that last year, Sherron was 'Super-Fantastic' 60% of the time. He was 'OK' 30%, and 'not very good' 10%. Again, those numbers and the categories aren't meant as exact. I'm just saying that he wasn't always 'great'. Part of the measure of KU's success this year will be how much he can move his game to 'Super-Fantastic'. If he goes from say 60% to 90%, KU will steam-roll the competition, with the improvement we all expect from the other players.

Sherron has represented KU very well. He has contributed to the team and been a good leader. He's done what coach has asked of him. I like his bowling ball style. The opponents are the pins and they aren't going to stop him. Sometimes he has played out of control, and has sort of stopped himself, sort of like a gutter ball, infrequent enough to be kind of be hidden by his often stellar play, but still there.

What I see in Sherron's game, as a junior, reminds me of Paul Pierce's junior year at KU. Paul showed flashes of how good he could be through-out the season. Then in the NCAA tourney, he took his game to another level and really showed that he was ready for the NBA. I regretted that we didn't get to see Paul play his senior year at KU.

kvskubball 11 years, 2 months ago


Fortunately, Sherron has decided to come back. We saw Paul play really great for a handful of games. Then he left for the bucks, and adding salt to the wounds, was locked out for most of his rookie season as the NBA players went on strike. I hope we'll see Sherron play great for an entire season....Dream the dream!

As for GOAT KU guard, as of this moment, I will pick either Paul Pierce or JoJo. I base this on their talent level, more than on their stats while at KU. Both Paul and JoJo played above the crowd in college, but showed how good they really were by having great pro careers. Sherron doesn't seem to have the up-side those two possessed, but I'm hoping he'll show that he does by having a super great senior season. If he plays super and leads us to say an undefeated season, then he'll earn the right to join those guys in the discussion. IMO, until then, he's 'only' very, very good.

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

I forgot about the dream... that should be added....

Brandon Rush Darrell Arthur Tyshawn Taylor Xavier Henry CJ Henry

Sounds like a pretty interesting team there ALONE..... Too bad we don't have in late to the show true posts..... but im pretty sure with two lengthy 6'6s and a gangly 6'9 we'd do Ok in the post...... If we included withey.... we would certainly have that lengthy post player.... Let's not forget...this list WILL grow with time..... By the time Harrison Barnes makes up his mind he very well could be the next NBA star in waiting....

jayhawkboogeyman 11 years, 2 months ago

Who the hoot cares why Tyshawn left Marquette. He is here and a stud and what his motivation to choose Kansas was in actually none of our concern

yovoy 11 years, 2 months ago

wayward!!! - we really overachieved last year - period. we got stopped about where i thought we would. so then, we DID max out last year.

"ivory towers" for cole and withey? after christmas will be the first chance to see the towers together.

does robinson remind anyone but me of ju? i don't think he's got that sort of motor, and i don't think he has that skill, but i DO think he's got that inborn "just play" attitude and ability that ju had. people are saying that he's a hoss, but i'm not seeing it. he's heavier than ju, but not even as big as darrell was. he's got some work to do, but i'd never seen clips of him. he'll be a good addition to the twins.

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

I do boogeyman....

honestly, everyone one of those late game recruits seems to add up to a key player and cog...... i LOVE the fact they liked him up there..... he wasn't even on our radar until the whole crean mess started.... Don't think that National Championship didn't make him think twice.......

I'll take as many late steals as we can from these mediocre to great school schools who accidentally cast off parts they desperately wanted to keep.....

Yovoy - you sure love to play the race card ;)...ivory crack me up..... Let's hope they amount to more than Pollard and Lafrentz in the ring department.

Thomas Robinson is totally my sleeper pick to come out of nowhere and be a HUGE performer on this team..... But he's not julian.... he's alot more Darnell.... iMaagine if you gave Julians hops to Darnell.... this is about what you get with Thomas Robinson, fortunately he appear to be there defensively already.... and he has the right work ethic which sometimes plagued JU.... I think he has the potential to surpass them both very quickly.....

Joe Baker 11 years, 2 months ago

kvskubball (anonymous) says...

Part of the measure of KU's success this year will be how much he can move his game to 'Super-Fantastic'. If he goes from say 60% to 90%, KU will steam-roll the competition, with the improvement we all expect from the other players.

Collins had his moments of mental lapses. But I liked that he tried and succeeded for the most part. Taylor was only a Freshman and he stepped up like no other Frosh in that game. He attempted a trey, but it hit iron. I totally agree, Collins will have to be super polished, but the other guys will have to step up when Collins has one of "those games" of which you speak so eloquently here on your post, with math no less!! LOL They'll be fine. I just hope they err in trying rather than not trying at all. This seems to be their achilles when the entire team follows the leader down, rather than someone stepping up big. To me, Brady Morningstar is that leader behind SC!! I expect him to be a seasoned leader. I hope they all have balance and get rid of that Superman mentality.

Joe Baker 11 years, 2 months ago

yovoy (anonymous) says...

but not even as big as darrell was

TRob is a Freshman!! F-R-E-S-H-M-A-N !! He is nearly as big or bigger than Shady was as a Freshman. I think he' smarter and makes plays when needed. He is much more aggressive. It took Shady longer. Shady didn't really start rising until the '08 tourney championship, specifically the Memphis game. Shady would've been massive if he stayed another year. Did you hear what TRob's weight was entering KU and what it is now? This kid will be a phenom if he stays for all four quarters!! NBA scouts will be frothing over him. He has a better shot than most 6-8 players in college. I think he plays better than most Fowards KU has had over the years. I think he will play much like James Worthy!!!

100 11 years, 2 months ago

Withey is 7'0".

Finally a publication realize what Kansas & Arizona posters have known for quite sometime -- the kid is not one inch taller than the twins.

He's REALLY tall!

We seriously have the twin tower shot blocking/ dunking/ rebound machine combo if Coach Self ever decides to go that way.

After the holidays, I think Self will begin to experiment with utter domination of the first 7 minutes of each game.

  1. Aldrich
  2. Withey
  3. X
  4. CJ or Tyshawn
  5. Sherron

*The 2 position is by far the most interesting evolutionary piece of the season.

Joe Baker 11 years, 2 months ago

100 (anonymous) says...

After the holidays, I think Self will begin to experiment with utter domination of the first 7 minutes of each game.

100- I see Brady in that 3 for 45-50% of time during preseason leading to holidays. I've said it b4 and again...X learns the system, it's over and the ratio changes drastically. X will take 50-60% and Brady might get 30-40% pt. I think Ty will get the majority of the 2. But I agree things will change after the holidays.

KGphoto 11 years, 2 months ago

Holy jaybate, wayward! You've got it!

I haven't seen someone so interested in reading themselves since jaybate was in diapers.

The passion is appreciated. Now don't go breakin' yer keyboard.

100 11 years, 2 months ago

Nice insight truehawk. The off guards will be only making themselves better in practice for the first month, that much is certain.

It just baffles the mind to think of the numerous tough/big/ skilled posts we can run at the opposition.

KGphoto 11 years, 2 months ago

Yes 100.

This is the deepest team in KU history.

I can't believe I just said that.

KGphoto 11 years, 2 months ago

Back to the headline.

You can't judge a book by its cover. Which is why you can't predict KU's season by it's OADs.

You work for wins. You work for championships. Tyrel will be a factor.

yovoy 11 years, 2 months ago

there-there....yes, virginia, i realize he's a frosh. look at darrell's physique (shoulders, chest, biceps, and triceps) when he walked onto this campus, he was already put together. i haven't seen t-rob since he's been hitting the iron. alllllllllllll i was saying is that in the clips i saw i didn't think the descriptions i've been reading about him matched the pics i was seeing. since you were pointing out his age, i don't think that any of us can say that he makes plays when needed. we haven't seen him vs. d1. we will, and i hope he's as good as he looks to me. i will agree that he seems much more aggressive. darrell let the game come to him, but to say that he didn't really start rising until the ncaas, is crazy. that reverse-pivot fade-away (that he came here with and refined as signature move) was always good. he rebounded well, and his athletecism bailed out/complimented our guardplay wonderfully. i wasn't trying to take anything away from your precious. i was just saying that he didn't look to be the wide-body i'd heard about, and that he really has some finesse to his game. it looks powerful but he really does seem to have some nice skill with that power. i'd love to see him be a james worthy type. i always thought that darnell would develop into that at this level. he turned out to be special, but not (like james) worthy.

let's let him play some college ball before we start setting draft predictions for him.

this "glut" of talent is what happens when a masterful recruiter wins an nc, and sells the school like it should be sold. if ourSelf can put a point guard on the floor, he can put almost anyone at the other 4 positions, and be pretty successful.

btw, i was wondering would you rather have 2 julians (skinny and crazily mullti-skilled) or 2 guys w/ less skill that are just beasts strengthwise? i don't know.

100 11 years, 2 months ago

Another, evolutionarily speaking, highly interesting developmental piece of the 2009-2010 Jayhawk puzzle is not, "who" will start at point most of the year, but, rather, "how" Coach Self will use his tandom of four (4) truly skilled point guards throughout a forty minute game.

Again, after the holidays, he will be able to really mess with another oppossing defense by simply surprising the opposing coach every so often by shifting Tyshawn to the point & Sherron to the wing, sending him on a curl around Aldrich after Tyshawn receives a rare high pick from X, leaving either three major matchup problems or one easy layup (or a wide open kickout to X if the helpers converge on Sherron, presuming Aldrich's defender doesn't switch).

The confusion of "who is point" the 2nd half of the season should really give opposing coaches headaches....

Thus we will see a lot of zones. This is an even bigger reason to play Aldrich & Withey at the same time (contain one in a zone maybe, while the other dunks on a back zone pick set by the 2 guard).

Also, this "Syracuse type" zone we will see all year, is all the more reason to work an hour a day on off the pass loosely guarded threes to finish the last month of summer for Tyrel, Brady, X, CJ, Tyshawn, Sherron & Elijah.

Offensively speaking, crisp passing, tight ball fakes & solid picks will be the keys to absolute domination next year.

Remember Tubby Smith's last game in the fieldhouse? I think the score was 73-46... That's how we should look all year long, except with four times more dunks than we had that game.

yovoy 11 years, 2 months ago

if withey can pass, then we can play him w/ cole vs zone, but otherwise, no. you've got to have a big that can flash-from-weak, catch, face up, and hit the low post or shoot a free-throw jumper. find some clips of ju vs a zone if you want to see what i mean. he might shoot, dump it down, go down the gut on the bounce, skip, or kick back out for the open shot. he did it picture perfectly (most of the time). gooden, collison, and padgett did a good job at that spot, but we normally used screens to get dunks off of oops from guards. i look for one of the morris twins to flash the post vs zones.

Brett Glover 11 years, 2 months ago

Haha, this may sound weird, but my girlfriend and I saw him at the mall today, just a bit ago. He was ripped beyond belief!

100 11 years, 2 months ago


Excellent commentary. We are extremely solid if it's the twins snagging that 4 spot to slice up the zone.

From all I've read & seen Withey is truly a 4 & Little is truly a 3. I've not heard that he was a bad passer at all, and surely this will be his first time to pass to a wide open fellow 7 footer in the game 2 feet above the rim. He's very athletic &, like Wilt, is a heckuva volleyball player -- I've never seen a volleyball player that couldn't pass.

In fact if you want a good vintage Wilt dish at Allen, I believe there's one on YouTube. Very much like one Danny did 2 & 1/2 decades later, dribbling full speed, behind the back pass.

Like you, I'll wait until I know more -- but I do know one thing -- he's been in Self's system (practicing) since late December, and Self surely sees that as one of his most important pieces of development, not only for here, but for the NBA.

So Withey, if you're reading this, while the guards shoot assisted zone 3's for an hour a day, you work on tight pivots, court awareness, creating space which leads to a crisp big man dish out of a double team. While you're at it, work on the simplicities of quick, tight ball movement so you don't have to worry about getting trapped.

Gonna be one heckuva year no matter whose at the four spot past the holidays.

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

KGPhoto.... Who do you think Inspires me to write sso prodigiously..... if there ever was a reasonf or me to comment it's so he alone cannot manipulate the conversation !

Yovoy.... IM pretty sure it's marcus's baby until he sells it on the black market or takes it too the bank..... The 4 is locked up tight..... The 2 is not in my opinion, I still think it's brady's despit what alot of Jayhawks say about Tyshawn, despite what Carl thinks of Cj..... and despite what Bill Mayer thinks of Sherron.....There will be a time or three when we have them both in there at the same time.... Eagle Mountain and Mount Whitney will be playing side by side..... but let's not forget we have a 5 headed beast down low this year.....

Comfortability of starers by position most to least..... at least how i see it.... Cole Sherron Marcus Brady Xavier

I do concur....we are gonna be scary awesome come February

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

You know that whole 2 weeks I posted on Kentucky boards, just for kicks.... I never once received that sort of well though out commentary ....... fans breaking down the "syracuse' 2-3 junk D or 1-3-1 or box and 1 is why we are the elite of all blue bloods.....

They can have their Stricklands..... I'lll keep my Mannings

Brett Glover 11 years, 2 months ago

I really don't think Xav is going to start right away, He's gotta work just like Bill said. There's no doubt he's going to put the five he trusts most and that's last years starters, no Xav until maybe mid to late big twelve time.

100 11 years, 2 months ago

Nice, wayward.

By the way, as I see it, a one three one pretty much puts us in auto-dunk mode with Aldrich & Withey down there waiting for alley oops.

In this situation we need to pass the ball crisply a couple times to get the D out of position -- luckilly, all Bill Self teams seem to do this skill extremely well (except for 2005 team which was a very average team against a zone simply due to growing pains & also I think that Bucknell loss might have been the most important, learning loss Bill Self has ever had, in terms of the utter simplicity of losing to an opponent because of standing around one pass basketball magnified by waiting on our heels to play D).

I digress -- back to the point at hand -- next year, against the one three one, our two guards up top (if Self pulls them out into a similar Dean Smith four corners protocol that has been so successful the last couple years) should be trained to pull the top defender & a wing defender closer & then choose one of two wide open 7 footers over the top.

Gonna be a great year to see the 1-3-1. However, I'll bet we never see it.

mjlindsm 11 years, 2 months ago

I like the comment that gave due appreciation to Julian Wright's mastery of playing against zones. It was really unbelievable to watch him against the 2-3. He had the perfect combination of the ability to hit the 15-foot jumper and to find the open man. I don't remember losing a game against a predominantly 2-3 zone team while Julian was a starter. Against man-to-man teams like UCLA on the other hand... eh, I won't go there; I'll keep this positive.

I agree with Wayward about Morningstar having his starting spot more solidly than Xavier Henry at this point, though the vocal ones out there seem to disagree vehemently. I'm really wondering whether it's going to be Xavier starting at the 3 with Brady at the 2 or Brady at the 3 and Tyhawn at the 2 at the start of the year. I'm thinking it will mostly depend on Tyshawn's (hopeful) defensive improvement and Xavier's ability to play D, which we don't know that much about. I also agree that at least for the start of the season, McMorris is pretty much a lock for the 4.

Now come second half of the season, nobody has any clue who's going to be starting other than Sherron and Cole. Hopefully Xavier will prove he's as good as we think and that he can play D, so you'd think he'll be starting. Then I don't really know if it matters if Brady or Tyshawn is the other starting guard. I personally think that even if Tyshawn improves to the point that he's better than Brady, with this lineup with 3 scorers already, Brady's game fits better with this lineup, and Tyshawn is the perfect player to be a spark off the bench, to fly past people when they're tired or second-stringers. I'm thinking Tyshawn as the Big XII 6th man of the year, now that I think about it.

mjlindsm 11 years, 2 months ago

As for the strength stuff that the article was about, I'm a bit wary. It seems like whatever frame someone has, Hudy tries to change it. If you're skinny, you need to get big. If you're big, you need to drop weight. Lots of muscle isn't always great. Simien and Jackson were both playing their best basketball as seniors after having noticeably lost muscle and weight in general between their junior and senior years. It was especially noticeable when watching Darnell suddenly dunking all over everyone.

Muscle doesn't always seem to help everything in basketball. When I think about the strongest, most muscular guys, I think Shaq, Ben Wallace and Joey Dorsey first come to mind. I also wonder if it's coincidence that those are the three worst shooters I have ever seen. I'm just hoping these guys keep their quickness and leaping ability, especially the Morrises. Or maybe the coaches just figured that those guys aren't particularly athletic anyway, so they might as well make them strong bruisers. Eh, then again, chances are these people know a lot better than I do, or so I hope and so we shall see.

mjlindsm 11 years, 2 months ago

One last thing, for those of you who haven't read it, I really, really recommend reading this article, and then reading WaywardJay's blog on this site regarding "what I did on my summer vacation." It goes with this article like a Barbera D'Alba to spaghetti and marinarra.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago


As I've said for awhile now, if KU's players live up to expectations, this KU team will be the deepest team in college basketball history.

If it goes undefeated and wins the ring, it will also have to be ranked the best college basketball team of all time.

Big, but not gigantic ifs.

mjlindsm 11 years, 2 months ago

Fab Melo is off the board. Guess we can stop hoping for him as our next big guy recruit.

KanKu 11 years, 2 months ago

mjlindsm, I agree wholeheartedly on your point about Taylor and Morningstar. Morningstar would fit in better at the 2 with Sherron, X, Mk Morris, and Cole. I think Tyshawn is a stud, but isn't as good a defender or 3 point shooter.....yet. If he proves to hit the 3's at the jaybate coveted "40%" mark and play tougher defense, I think he'll be our main 2 guard. I would love for him to come off the bench as Sherron did his sophomore year, but I wonder how Taylor would take that, especially with his success in the U-19 games.

Joe Baker 11 years, 2 months ago

mjlindsm (anonymous) says... Fab Melo is off the board. Guess we can stop hoping for him as our next big guy recruit.

Where did you learn this tidbit?

K_Easthouse 11 years, 2 months ago

Everyone keeps forgetting that McMorris' preferred position is the 3. We're stacked at the 4-5 - especially after January - so I can see him sliding down into that position.

Starting lineups during non-conference won't matter; Self has to experiment with personalities and combination that we can only begin to speculate about. However, once everyone learns the system and the team melds together, I can see us starting like this:

Sherron Xavier McMorris Whithey Aldrich

With Tyshawn playing "6th starter" role Sherron played in our championship season. Let Sherron truly run as a point with two beasts down low and two slashers at the 2 and 3. His scoring production may go to hell, but he'll average 12+ assists a game, and we all know that he needs to prove to NBA scouts he is capable of more than just being a "scoring point guard."

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

Tyshawn's a Hurley PG.... im solidly sure he will do ANYTHING that will help this team win a championship.

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